7 | People of the Sun

into effect. It was known as an AFTA. Pretty nineteen ninety most modern Mexican presidents had been lawyers, but Salinas he was an economist educated at Harvard, and like many economists at the time, he imagined a future in which the world was more and more interconnected, and after was a big step towards this vision of globalization. If Mexico prospers,

the US and Canada will prosper. That is why this is not a win loose solution, but a win win win situation for the three countries in the northern part of the American continent. The party continued into the early hours of the morning, but at a round two am, a military aid stepped onto the terrace and handed Sealina's a note. The Secretary of Defense was on the phone, and the news was urgent. As most of Mexico was

ringing in the new year. Thousands of rebels with mats and guns had taken over San Cristo Las Casas, it's town in the southeastern state of Chiapas. They called themselves the Sabbatista Army of National Liberation or the Easy l N. They had occupied government buildings, freed prisoners, and even captured a local radio station. Here's moist Zuniga. He was in San Cristobal that night. I remember that in the early morning, about one am, I guess, we heard that there was

a demonstration of Indians in the center. But they said that they were worrying about La Clavas and that they were carrying march. It was not really known what was going on, if they were violent groups that were going to harm society. And that's when we turned on the radio.

Scratchy broadcast repeated the same message over and over. It's said, in part, we are a product of five d years of struggle, first against slavery, then during the War of Independence against Spain led by insurgents, then to avoid being absorbed by North American imperialism. But today we say ya basta, enough is enough. The rebels wore face masks to hide

their identities, but their goal was no mystery. The broadcast continued. Therefore, and in accordance with this declaration of war, we call on our stop at least a military with the following orders to advance to the capital of the country and defeat the Mexican army. From interval presents an awfully nice

this is the last resort. I'm shoot this gun. Episode seven People of the Sun. At the heart of the call les idea is a simple promise the California will be better off on its own, But somewhat paradoxically, Marcus and Lewis also expect the relationship between California and the US to remain super close. Here's Marcus, so we said, you'll have California's citizenship and you'll retain your American citizenship. If you want to renounce your American citizenship, that's on you.

But we will never make that a requirement to join California. And Marcus and Lewis's ideal version of call legs, California would retain many of the benefits of being a part of the United States. Californians would stop paying federal taxes but could still collect Social Security. The U. S Military would continue to own and operate basis in California and

take possession of their nuclear weapons. If you look at the literary basis in California, it's not that much land, it really isn't They could keep them, and they could pay US money to keep it here, and they could keep the nukes there. And finally, the California and US

economies would remain closely linked. Here's Louis Marinelli. If you look at the history of the United States of the last several decades, they've been very favorable towards things like free trade in North America, and so there's no reason for us to expect that just because it's an arbitrarily now international border, that all of a sudden, the trade stops,

the food stops. If all this were true calls, it does seem like a win win situation for California's more local control, but with a lot of support and protection from the US. Still, some experts are skeptical that it would work out that way. Here's Stephen marsh, author of the Next Civil War. Why would the United States government pay pensions to California's when it's not raising tax revenues on California citizen. I'm it's too This is what I

mean by they're not serious. That's not a serious proposal. So the problem with this debate, of course, is that it's all hypothetical. So today, instead of speaking and hypotheticals, we're going to tell you the story of a place right next door to California, where people fought for their autonomy and actually one As many of you are aware, there's a revolution happening in southeastern Mexico and a state

rich and resources but poor and standard of living. There are those who will no longer accept the poverty that the current system offers them. These people are known as the well. January one, a revolutionary group known as the Sapatistas seized control of large portions of the Mexican state of Chiapas. They pledged to transform the way the region was governed. Nearly thirty years later, much of Chiapas is still under Sapatista control, operating independently from the Mexican government.

It's a dootle that Marcus Ruis Evans says is a direct inspiration. I have personally always supported the Zapatistas. Their movement is similar to the Calxit movement in a couple of regards. California's at the edge of America. We are the furthest away from the capitals can be. We are a markedly different culture than the rest of Americans, and we too have our resources sucked out in order to benefit America, while we don't really see the benefits of that.

Is it possible for California and the US to remain close allies after calls it? Can California be independent and still get the benefits of being part of the United States? Or is that all just too good to be true? The story of Chiapas gives us insight on the question what's it actually like to live in the shadow of a huge country that you just declared independence from. Is it a story of friendly neighbors or something else. To get started, we need to give you a little bit

of background. Who exactly are the Sabatistas and why did they rise up against the Mexican government back To do that story justice would require an entire podcast of its own, but for this episode, what's important to know is that Mexico has been heavily shaped by a colonization. The Spanish began settling the area over five hundred years ago, searching for gold and spreading Catholicism, and just like in the United States, these colonists subjugated and displaced the millions of

indigenous people who originally inhabited these lands. By the lay eighteen hundreds, Mexico was living under a dictator named port Video d S. D S succeeded in growing the Mexican economy, but he did so in part by confiscating land from poor indigenous farmers and turning it over to allies and four investors. The theft of their lands created profound suffering amongst Mexico's indigenous people. For centuries, they had farmed the

land communally. Now without lands of their own, many had no choice but to labor on plantations under often brutal conditions. The DIA's regime collapsed in triggering what's known as the Mexican Revolution. Put simply, it was a civil war, with multiple factions battling for control of the country for over a decade. One of the leaders who rose to power during this time was a farmer named Emiliano sat you, yes,

my president, what is your name? I mean out of the earth, that strook with a cry, the robin hood of Mexico. The man with a circle of out his name. I'm a jetting in his hand, fire in his blood, taking by storm and holding my fury. And where he rode, they conquered. What you're hearing is a trailer for an old Hollywood film called Viva Sapata. It stars Marlon Brando in skin darkening makeup as Mexican folk hero Emiliano Sata.

Here's Alex Kaznavis, author of Sabbatista's Rebellion. From the Grassroots to the Global. Emiliano Sapata is still regarded as the most authentic, most untarnished, purest hero of the Mexican Revolution. He grew up to be essentially the Mexican version of a cowboy, right, rode horses, all that kind of stuff, Very dashing, but he also grew up with a keen

sense of justice and seeing the incredible injustice. In early twentieth century Mexico in the lead up to the revolution, Sabata represented the poor, mostly indigenous farmers of southern Mexico. This primary goal was to take land back from the rich and return it to the peasants who would originally owned it. In nineteen seventeen, Sabata achieved his biggest victory Article seven. Mexico enacted a new constitution, and one of

its provisions, Article seven, included many of Sabbata's ideas. Article seven essentially stipulates land reform, so the redistribution of land that's been left idle, that's owned by large landowners. But critically, it allows for land to be collectively owned. It's a huge victory. Article seven made a huge difference in the lives of poor farmers, especially Native people. By three million Mexican families lived and worked on communal lands made possible

by Article seven. Then came President Carlos Salinas. In Salinas called for the end of Article land but actions this meant that the communal lands on which millions of Native people had been living would be divided up and sold off. The Mexican Congress quickly approved his proposal. Why would Salinas do this? By the nine eighties, debt crisis has hit Mexico.

Mexico has defaulted on its I m F loans, and by the nineties, as NAFTA is under negotiation, the North American Free Trade Agreement all the capitalized interests behind n after saying, you know, you cannot have an article that essentially stipulates that property that the land is subject to appropriation and redistribution. So in order to play ball, Salinas has to essentially remove Article seven from the Mexican Constitution. And this is arguably the spark that lights the fuse.

Salina saw NAFTA as good business for his country, but as one activist told The New York Time, quote, the Free Trade Agreement is a death certificate for the Indian peoples of Mexico unquote, which brings us back to the Sabatistas. Inspired by the example of Emiliano Sapata, they rose up and took the land back. There were many dead in the market. The Sapatistas went into the houses of the mestizos in the center of a cocingo, and the army went in after them and also mowed down the messtisos,

the labnos, if that's what you can call them. So on January one, Sapatista rebels took hold of San Cristo de las Casas and several other towns in Chiapas. The response from President Salinas was quick in brutal. The army invaded, hunting down rebel fighters and forcing them back into the surrounding mountains. Here's MOI, says Suniga again. That afternoon, the afternoon of the first of January, they left. We only saw the Sapatista's walking towards the mountains in the south.

I felt a strangeness and a kind of respect, because they looked very small, physically poor, like little chiitas made up cloth. You could see that everything was self made. The rambles of the Mexican army would come down with two or three machine guns. The soldiers were physically much bigger. You could see that not all of them were from Chiapas. You could see a lot of soldiers from the north of Mexico. The easy land was mostly local indigenous farmers

and labor. This they were far outmatched by the Mexican army. But moisess could see that the rebels had something. The military did it something to fight for. Their very existence was on the line. You could hear in the words of the rebels radio transmission. We call on all our brothers to join this call as the only way to avoid starving in the face of the insatiable ambition of a dictatorship of more than seventy years. Here's moistas Unia. More than anything, I heard a lot of determination and

a lot of reason in their words. I knew they were right because I had seen that poverty. The army was never able to stop the uprising in Chiapas. Finally, after years of fighting, they gave in Mexico passed a law stating that quote indigenous peoples could practice autonomy within the framework of a united nation. The Sabatistas had on well. The first time I went to Chiapas is um. After a long long bus ride, we came into San Cristoval de Las Casas, and San Cristoval is a town right

before you really go into the jungle. This is Martha Gonzalez. She's an activist and author and the lead singer of the Los Angeles rock band Getz and Uh. I remember coming in and it was a beautiful green, luscious everywhere. It's just beautiful. It was a little foggy, the sun hadn't really come out yet. There were a lot of Sapatistas everywhere, and we were met at the kind of like the very top of that hill because our stuff

was going to be searched. They wanted to make sure we didn't have any guns and any alcohol or drugs. And by the late nine nineties the story of the Sabatistas was known around the world. The rock band Rage Against the Machine wrote multiple songs about the uprising. One of them, People of the Sun, was nominated for a Grammy. Martha was one of those who traveled to Chiappa's to see how the uprising was working in practice and to learn how she might replicate Easyelan tactics back home. The

idea was not that you can become sapatista. It was more about what can you do from your own trenches, and so that was completely empowering, and I think we've been trying to live that philosophy ever since. The Sabatistas had enacted as system that looked really different from what had come before it. It was a radical form of democracy, with most big decisions made directly by the people. They

also declared what they called the Women's Revolutionary Law. So one of their laws is that you know, woman has a right to join the army if she's so wishes to h woman also has a right to have as many kids or no children, if she so wishes. Most importantly, the SPASS took steps to protect the cultures and languages of Native people, something that the Mexican government had tried

for generations to eliminate. The Mexican government has always espoused that folks are aren't Mexicanos, right, and the implication here is that the indigenous are extinct, that they are dead, and that we now live in a post indigenous world. Well, that's not true. The Sapatistas, the value systems that they set have everything to do with their histories, in preserving their histories, preserving their languages, their way of life, their connection to the land. And this is what they decided

to focus on. In many ways, the easy l End delivered on their promises. They restored land to the citizens of the regions they liberated. They've tried to build a more inclusive and just society, and they stood up for Native rights. But there has remained one big obstacle to the Sapatista success Mexico. Here's Alex Kasnavish again. The Mexican government is an entirely duplicitous and insincere partner, and it's really clear from the beginning that they are not the

ones entirely pulling the strings either. There's this infamous memo that gets released by the Chase Manhattan Bank that says the Mexican government must demonstrate territorial integrity and control in Chiapas. What they're saying is, you have to crack down and destroy this uh to demonstrate that you are open for business. The army constructed military bases in Sapathista territory, and the Mexican government provides funding to paramilitary groups that routinely attacks

Sapatista supporters. Meanwhile, the Mexic Second government has failed to provide basic services to the residents of Chiapas who are still Mexican citizens. Almost Chiapas is a literate. Access to healthcare is limited, of indigenous communities do not have running water in their homes. The reasons why are pretty clear. The Sapatista uprising was a huge political embarrassment to the government.

It undermined confidence in Mexico just as it was trying to pitch itself to foreign investors, and the value of the Pesto plummeted. In short, it destabilized Mexico and humiliated its leaders, which left them in no mood to help the people of Chiapas. Yeah, so, what is the story of the Sapatistas tell us about Calexi? What kind of relationship can California expect with the United States after it

declares independence. Here's Stephen marsh He thinks the relationship is going to be, well, whatever the US wants it to be. The state that you're succeeding from has to agree to it. The Americans would have all the power, right, Like they could just say, actually, we're not going to pay you anything. Ever, And what will California be able to do? Nothing? Nothing? If the U s decides to shut off the Internet

in California, it can, right. All the cards are in one hand here, and Chapa's citizens are still reliant on the Mexican government for many social services. California is kind of in the same boat. It has huge dependencies on the US, trade, security, water, infrastructure. In a dispute, California could turn to the United Nations, but the US HOLDS veto power over important votes, including California's ability to join

the UN. At all, Americans tend to think, well, who cares about the u N. But like, if you don't have UN recognition, then you don't have I p addresses. Your money is no good. If you want to have airplanes land in your airports, you need the u N. The power and balance would get worse if, as Marcus has suggested, California gives its nuclear weapons back to the United States. If it was America said well, we're gonna take our nukes, people here would probably say, fine, go,

we don't want them here anyways. No, we don't think there will be a physical threat from America because we are peacefully and legally succeeding. Why would America try to conquer us when they just voted us out? A majority of their Congress just said get out. In the early nine nineties, just as NAFTA was trying to unite North America, the former Soviet Union was collapsing as a nation split into smaller countries. Ukraine agreed to turn over its nukes

to Russia in exchange for security guarantees. I don't have to tell you where that decision led them, Russia unleashing an assault on Ukraine from multiple directions. Damer Putin declared that Russia would use all weapons systems available to US to defend the country. He wanted to, in fact, re established the former Soviet Union. The narrative in Ukraine publicly is we had the world's third largest nuclear arsenal, we gave it up for the signed piece of paper and

look what happened. All to say, it seems like there are a lot of ways the relationship between California in the US couldn't go wrong after calgs in. But beyond all of that, Stephen marsh doesn't understand why Marcus and Lewis would want to remain so close to the US anyway. I mean, it's it's a strange thing to want to

have it both ways. I mean, either you are a California and not an American, or you're an American, right And as you can see from talking to the leading California separatists who imagines double identity papers forever everyone, you may not hate America quite as much as it's required to actually want to succeed. Which brings us to a really important distinction between cal Exit and the Sabatistas from Marcus and Lewis call exit is a legal argument, a

moral argument and an economic argument. They believe California would be better off on its own. But as Moisess noticed back on January first, the Sapatistas we're fighting for something way different, for survival. If there's anything I've learned from this podcast, it's that succeeding from a country is a big deal. It's going to involve some people getting hurt.

So the question from Marcus and Lewis is our Californians really angry enough at the US to endure all the sacrifice The cal exit is probably going to require, Like are you really willing to say you're not an American? Or do you just hate the government, which, of course is like, you know, as American is alple pie. There's one more reason for Californians to worry about their future

relationship with the United States. The era of globalization, the driving force behind NAFTA, may be coming to an end. In a few moments, I will sign the North American Free Trade Act, and the law after will tear down trade barriers between our three nations. On December eight, US President Bill Clinton held a semony to celebrate the ratification of NAFTA. We cannot stop global change. We can only

harness the energy to our benefit. Now we must recognize that the only way for a wealthy nation to grow richer is to export. That, my fellow Americans, is the decision that Congress made when they voted to ratify NAFTA. But things didn't go according to plan. Mexico's economic crisis deepen today, with stocks dropping sharply and the face so still under fire. The crisis has grown despite ten billion

dollars in a from Mexico's partners in Nada. After and after the world's economies became more and more connected, but globalization was deeply destabilizing for working class people, not just in Mexico but around the world. Here's Alex Kasnavish again. So it's the idea that you can actually make your cost of production that much cheaper by sourcing it somewhere else. What happens if we can source our labor off shore

where they don't have labor rights. If I have to deal with environmental restrictions in the United States, maybe Haiti won't care about them to the same degree. I think it's quite accurate to think of it as a race to the bottom in terms of social standards, environmental standards, labor standards. This was never a audol that was meant to actually improve social conditions of life for the world's majorities. Whole industries were outsourced from one country it's another. Unions

were gutted and changing economic prospects unleast massive immigration. These economic turmoil is hardest on Mexico's population, and officials worry there will now be a sudden increase in Mexican migration to the United States. By the backlash was well underway, and after was perhaps the worst trade deal ever made. The United States racked up trade deficits totaling more than two trillion dollars Canada. Politicians like Donald Trump were no

longer promising a more integrated world. They were promising the opposite. Every decision on trade, on taxes, on immigration, on foreign affairs will be made to benefit American workers and American families. From this day forward, it's going to be only America first, America First. Maybe back in the nineties, California could have expected a warm welcome into the global economy after Calx, But today the world looks a lot. Different countries are

shutting their borders, enacting trade barriers, restricting immigration. Today we're in an era of nationalism, or put another way, the era of anti globalization. I am the president of Antico position movements in Russia. We supported the working class. This is an economic this is a politics, and this is a common Italian relationships. Next time on our season finale, we speak to Alexander Jonov, president of the anti globalization

movement of Russia. Yonov helped Louis Marinelle opened the California embassy in Moscow, triggering a massive scandal that crippled the Callex That movement back in today in Marcus Ruiz Evans is trying to rebuild. But the story of Cals, Russia and Louis Marinelli is far from over. It is vitally important for millions of rational, normal people living in California the state as we know it never becomes an independent country.

Independence would unbind California from the only thing that has kept it from completely deteriorating into a third world communist state. That one thing is the United States Constitution. Can cal Exit recover? Will America have a national divorce? And what do we need to do to save the United States. That's all coming up on the last resort. The last resort is an Interval Presents original production from Awfully Nice. From Interval Presents. The executive producers are Alan Coy and

Jake Kleinberg. Executive producers from Awfully Nice are Jesse Burton and Katie Hodges. Written and produced by Jesse Burton and Dana Bulut. Associate producer is Suzanne Gaber. Project management by Kadi Kama Kate, Editing, sound design and mix by Nick Sabriano and Keiana McClellan of Bang Audio. Post original music by my Boy Manta Way, Yuki and Me, shoot Test Scott, theme song by me, shoot Test Scott and Sweet. Sound fact checking by Lauren Vespoli. Script consultation by William Bauer.

English language dubbing by Esteban Silva. Operations lead is Sarah You, Business development lead is chefe Ellinswig, and marketing lead is Samara still Special. Thanks to Ulysses Escamilla Harrow, I'm your host, shoot Test Scott. For a full list of the sources used in this episode, please check the show notes. Make sure to follow right in review. You the last Resort on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for listening. I wrote the Wars.

We do wrong when we wont I wrote the Wars. Yeah,