The Inner Front

the door reads the last Archive. The first thing I usually do when I come in here is switch on this old radio and turn the dial, this time to the year nineteen forty four. This is Berlin, Calle Blon call the American Mothers, as from some lass, And I'd just like to say, girl from the Lion call. If I used to listen a lot of calls it going used to listen in. The tape is old and wobbly and raspy. It can be hard to make out, but what you're hearing is the voice of an American woman

who's working for Nazi Germany. Since the middle of the nineteen thirties, Germany had been broadcasting via shortwave radio to Africa, Latin America, the Far East, Southeast Asia, Indonesia, and Australia, but it's broadcast to the United States outnumbered all of its other programs by far. These broadcasts reported on a supposed communist Jewish conspiracy newspapers to to calling these broadcasts fake news. That's where the expression comes from, and this

is what it sounds like. I'm on the side. I'm not on the side of Rosabel and his two weak friends and two friends, because I've came back up to be a one and assistent American girl. This broadcaster Americans called her Axis Sally. She was trying to destroy American morale, trying to convince Americans that the Allies were going to lose the war, trying to get Americans to doubt the real news that they heard on American radio. But Access Sally she was an American too, an American in Berlin.

Welcome to the Last Archive. This show about how we know what we know and why it seems lately because if we don't know anything at all. I'm Jillipoor. This season, I'm trying to trace the history of doubt. We talk a lot these days about all the white nationalist propaganda on the Internet, trolls memes neo Nazis. The founder of a neo Nazi website is facing a lawsuit for allegedly targeting a Jewish woman in Montana with a quote troll storm. There are lots of reasons to worry today about how

this stuff spreads and what it does. But I'm a historian, so I thought it might be worth asking, not about the neo Nazis, but about the actual Nazis. What did their troll storms sound like? They used a different technology, not the ethernet, but the airwaves. So this episode Nazi radio propaganda, and I have to warn you some of the language you're going to hear is explicit and disturbing. I mean, it's Nazi radio. Still, I think it's really

important because her Gamoni with los atamaticis about pads. I'm staying off here and having them to accustops. I want the week. The Voice of Access ally came broadcast by shortwave radio into American homes. Here she was addressing herself to American women, mothers, wives, girlfriends. Everything she said was animated by anti Semitism, hatred, and venom deception, and then in between the racist ranting, she'd play these jaunty little jingles. The tape's so hard to make out because of how

it got recorded in the first place. During the war, a federal government listening post in Maryland staffed twenty four hours a day tuned in to Radio Berlin. Engineers there recorded as best they could whatever broadcast they could catch, and then after the war ended, the Justice Department thought about whether it might be possible to put access Sally on trial for these recordings. I gonna say my country right for ham No Bill, that's sentimentality, But I can

not play by country. I love a manager, but I Prontada and all of his tips boyfriends who have thrown up into the cremdel good t Look. I just as soon forget this lady, good night, crazy lady. But this episode, I'm going to play more of this dreck because as bad as it is, understanding it still requires what literary scholars call a close reading, the way you'd read say something completely different a very good poem. Propaganda hijacks language

and puts it into the service of the state. The opposite of propaganda is poetry, which puts language in the service of humanity. A really good poem is a lot like that badass sticker on Woody Guthrie's guitar. This machine kills fascists, This poem kills propaganda. I like to think poetry eats propaganda for breakfasts and then spits out the bones. Words in Time, bewildered with the broken tongue of wakened angels in our sleep. That's the American Archibald McLeish reading

his post war poem Words in Time. McLeish was a poet, but he was also, during the Second World War, the US government official charged with countering German propaganda. There is a moment when we lie bewildered, wakened out of sleep, when light and sound and all reply that moment time must tame and keep. McLeish, as a young man, had fought in the First World War. His poems about that war chronicle its atrocities and most of all, its meaninglessness.

If it was written at the time four or five years after the First World War, when it began to dawn on some of us who had not been intelligent enough to have it dawn on us earlier, that that war had been misfought and for nothing, and that those who had died in it had died pretty much for nothing.

That war, the First World War, haunted McLeish. The American public hadn't wanted to get involved in the war in Europe, and once the US got in, Woodrow Wilson had to establish a thing called the Committee on Public Information, which was charged with whipping up a frenzy for the war. It used the tools of mass advertising and mass communication. It lied a lot. After the war. One guy wrote a book about it. All was called Falsehood in Wartime.

He argued, there must have been more deliberate lying in the world from nineteen fourteen to nineteen eighteen than in any other period of the world's history. That might even be right. There was so much lying in the First World War that lying as a deliberate, well funded, state sponsored campaign got another name. People started calling it propaganda. McLeish he was sick of that stuff. He'd lost his brother in the war. He stood in the field and

watched his friends fall one by one. So he wrote poems that told the truth the disastrous war, and crossed the dark defile at last, and found at Roncevaux upon the darkening plain, the dead against the dead, dunned on the silent ground, the silent slain. McLeish, after he came back from the First World War, worked as a reporter for Henry Luce, who'd founded Time magazine in nineteen twenty three.

Luce had wanted to call the magazine simply facts, because Luce had fought in that War of lies two and like mc leish, he was sick of it. Mcle and all these other veterans of the war who became journalists, they brought home a passion for truth and clarity and stark description. They brought it into their writing. McLeish wrote for Loose's magazines, and then he also wrote poems and plays. He became one of the nation's best known writers, with

a deep commitment to public service. Then, in nineteen thirty nine, FDR appointed him Librarian of Congress, the keeper of the Keys, the man who opens the gate to knowledge, the last Archivist. The year McLeish accepted that appointment, the Second World War began, a war that would eventually take the lives of over sixty million people. By now, propaganda had gotten a lot more sophisticated, and it got a new name, psychological warfare.

Americans came to believe that the Germans were particularly good at it, deviously good, and that in top secret psychological laboratory worries, they were perfecting methods more dangerous than the most potent bomb. One American journalist wrote a book about it, called The Strategy of Terror. He said that the Germans had defeated the French before even a single German soldier had entered France by way of an inner front of the mind. Do you wonder what Hitler will do next?

More often than you wonder what America will do next? Do you sit up before the eleven o'clock news broadcast? Do the headlines get you down? In nineteen forty, when The Strategy of Terror came out, the book's publisher took up a splashy ad in The New York Times asking Americans to examine their own news consumption. If your answer to these three questions is yes, then the psychological barrage has reached you. The only defense is understanding. The Strategy

of Terror will give you this understanding. The publication of the Strategy of Terror stirred up a nationwide panic about Nazi propaganda coming across the ocean on shortwave radio. But did the Nazi strategy of terror really work. The director of the radio program at the University of Chicago was skeptical radio is a secret weapon. He said, the secret is how to use it as a weapon. But the

alarm about German psychological warfare had achieved its purpose. It convinced a lot of Americans that even though the Germans were an ocean away, they had already invaded the United States. Today, we call this sort of thing a perception hack. Like with the election of twenty twenty, Russia didn't need to hack our entire election system. They just needed to scare Americans into thinking that they could. The United States is now subject to a total barrage of the Nazi strategy

of terror. That's Archibald McLeish again, Okay, except this time it's our actor reading what McLeish wrote about all this. He'd been Librarian of Congress, but FDR put mclesian charge of the Office of Facts and Figures, America's own propaganda operation. As it happened before the First World War, a lot of Americans didn't want to have anything to do with

this new war in Europe. They were isolationists. Mcleishi and FDR were interventionists and they were trying to convince Americans that they were already involved in the war because they were being attacked psychologically by way of the airwaves. Hitler thinks Americans are suckers. By the very vastness of his program of lies, he hopes to frighten us into believing that the Nazis are invincible. Mcleshi here was describing exactly what Accessali was trying to do with her radio program,

frightening Americans into believing that the Nazis are invincible. McLeish heading up the Office of Facts and Figures, he was a little uncomfortable in the role of a propagandist. He didn't believe in telling lies to destroy the enemy's morale. There had to be a better way. He believed that writers have an obligation to fight fascism in the battle for public opinion, not by lying, but by telling the truth. The truth of journalism was his weapon. The honesty required

for the proper functioning of a democracy. The duty of government is to provide a basis for judgment, and when it goes beyond that, it goes beyond the prime scope of its duty. McLeish believed a democracy should wage a War of facts should bring the same commitment to wartime information for the public that journalists bring to good reporting. He wanted to oppose the Germans strategy of terror with

what he called the strategy of truth. It is the strategy of truth, the simple and clarifying truths by which a nation such as ours must guide itself. But the strategy of truth is not because it deals in truth devoid of strategy. It is not enough in this war of hoaxes and delusions and perpetuated lies to be nearly honest. It is necessary also to be wise. McLeish said that Americans could count on truth because of the nation's extraordinary

tradition of journalistic excellence, accuracy, and fairness. So he tried to run this Office of Facts and Figures getting information out to the public, real information, the way a magazine might work. But that's not what a wartime propaganda office does. His idealism did not survive the war. In nineteen forty two, McLeish scaled back his involvement at the Office of Facts and Figures FDR, then hired an ad man from Coca

Cola to work there. People who used to work for McLeish made fun of this new guy, as if American propaganda was now going to sound like this, that right up and get your four delicious freedoms. It's a refreshing war.

So yeah, there was Allied propaganda. Still, let me be clear, selling the four freedoms, freedom of speech, freedom of worship, freedom from fear, and freedom from want is a world of difference from selling anti semitism, race hatred and white nationalism and committing genocide and the females a world of difference. Google of America, I don't know all. I think you are a law Ali him to get to ask you

out of my head women in America. Starting in nineteen forty two, Access Sally's broadcasts went out to American troops. She also visited pow camps and interviewed American prisoners and then sent word of them on broadcasts that were meant to go all the way back across the Atlantic and into American homes. Now of all time, sit at the town of the Gong. It was exactly nine o'clock Eastern War times. There were actually a couple of wartime broadcasters

known as Axis Sally. This one's real name was Mildred Gillers. She'd been born in Portland, Maine. For a while, she was an actress in New York. In the nineteen thirties, she moved to Germany. How she ended up working for Radio Berlin is kind of a big mess, but she was a star there. One thing she had a sinister talent for was baiting American listeners who were desperate to hear news, any kind of news of their loved ones. Are you women in America waiting for the one you love?

Waiting and weeping in the sky of your own room, thinking of Ustan or the brother we've been sacrificed? Salcuncan d Rosberg Pari show on the Fringe about her. In order for American officials to try Gillers for treason, they first had to find her, and that proved to be a challenge. Germline has surrendered unconditionally. Ethonie have just officially laid down their own. Berlin nineteen forty six, a city in ruins, piles of rubble towering on street corners, alongside

the empty husks of bombed buildings. Hans Winson, an American counterintelligence agent, put up wanted posters looking for acts Sally. He knocked on doors, flashing a photographs fall mine. She carried an alligator purse and clutched a cigarette like a dagger. She was pushing fifty. She wore the clothes of a college girl. She was about as natural as a hydrogen bomb. American reporters would later call her Hitler's girlfriend. One day, Winson got lucky. He got a tip that acts as Sally.

Mildred Gillers was selling her furniture to second hand shops all around town. Before she'd gone into hiding. She'd stored some of her things in the basement of her old apartment building. Winson got the superintendent to let him in. Well, I'll be damned. Thus is the alice Jack Pott stowed in a basement. Winson found exactly what US authorities had been searching for records of Mildred Gillers's radio broadcasts. You can hear listening to those records how this stuff might

have worked as propaganda. It's pretty subtle. That would make bringing her to trial tricky. Grow well, don't cook up the patibul fool, don't have a home. Two years after Winston tracked Gillers down, she was brought to the US to face charges of treason. The case against her would have to establish that she had given aid and comfort to the enemies of the United States, and, under the terms of a recent Supreme Court decision, that she had

intended to provide that aid and comfort. There's still a question, though, can you commit treason by radio. By the time the Justice Department was really putting together its case against Gillers, another American who'd broadcast under the name Paul Revere had just been tried from the heart of Hitler, Germany. Your messenger, Paul Revere, greets you again, countrymen, friends, bows jew haters, and Jew's surveys. That guy he was found guilty of treason.

Well would happened to Gillers, though was still not clear. To convict her, prosecutors would have to provide either a confession or two witnesses. Gillers wasn't about to confess to treason. The punishment for treason could be death, so the prosecution needed those two witnesses who could both identify her and speak to her intent. Special Agent Joseph T. Jenko, a lawyer from Brooklyn, headed the investigation. He'd been tracking Gillers

for years in the nineteen twenties. Before Gillers went to Germany. She'd worked as an actress and a model in New York. Djenko interviewed people who'd known her, people like a guy named Wilfred Thomas. She was very dumb. I'm at a loss to understand how she could be doing anything which would be considered animical to the interests of the country. Building a case against Gillers took months. Jenko and other FBI agents tracked down and interviewed men who might have

heard Gillers while in prison camps German stallogs. The FBI heard rumors that Gillers had coursed some of those men into making recordings saying they were being treated well. That would have been very damning evidence. But Jenko couldn't find those recordings, and I can't find them either. For a while, the Justice Department thought about just dropping the case. The break came when investigators obtained a recording of a broadcast called Vision of Invasion, was a radio play in which

Gillers had starred. With this evidence, the grand jury issued an indictment. It included some pointed legal language, charging her with having participated in a phonographic recording that it would be broadcast to the United States to its citizens and soldiers at home and abroad, as an element of German propaganda and an instrument of psychological warfare. Giller's trial began early in nineteen forty nine in US District Court in Washington, d c. The reporters gasped at their first look at

her at forty eight. She has the figure of a woman of forty eight who has worked hard and sacrifice much to keep the figure. She added twenty four. Richard Rovera covered the trial for The New Yorker. Her entire get up, the type black dresses, the black spike heeled shoes, the indigo scarf that she uses for gesturing, the generous applications of lipstick and nail polish suggests that she is

torn by an inner conflict. Although she is trying desperately to avoid conviction, she is at the same time determined not to destroy the illusion of herself as a woman of mystery, glamor, and injury. This is before television. Rivera is painting a picture. Also, as he describes Gillars, she does sound not only terrible, but fascinatingly clueless. The notion of miss Gillars is a woman of glamor, either sinister or otherwise is one that at this stage of the

game anyway, only miss Gillars herself can harbor. And here's the part that knocks me out, the novelty of the evidence, the technological novelty of it. Gillers was being tried for the crime, the treason of having been an instrument of psychological warfare. But to accommodate the evidence of this crime, the courtroom was outfitted with a record player and forty sets of headphones, and only forty the judge, the defendant, the lawyers, the jurors, in a handful of reporters. Each

of them had a set of headphones. Was said that it looked like a miniature United Nations in there. The judge. Set of headphones were necessary because the recordings were hard to hear without them, which I think is true. The recordings are really difficult to hear. But I also don't totally buy the judge's explanation. In a crowded courtroom, forty sets of headphones really isn't that many. It meant that no one in the audience could hear the evidence, not

Gillers's family or any of the spectators. Her lawyer later filed an appeal saying that she'd been denied a public trial, which is a constitutional right. But I think maybe the judge had thought these recordings are toxic. Let's not expose the whole room to it. The prosecution had first to prove that Gillers's voice, not someone else's voice, was the voice on those records. I did that by bringing to the stand a guy who'd worked at Radio Berlin. They

asked him if he'd ever seen her speaking into a microphone? Yes, many times. Did he recognize her voice on the stack of twenty two records right here? Yes. Gillers's lawyer didn't have much by way of a defense, that she'd been hypnotized in Berlin by a Germans Bengali who, before she went to Europe, had been her professor at Hunter College. At that point, reporters noted Miss Gillers dabbed her eyes.

But his argument was undercut by the prosecution bringing in witnesses who pointed out the Gillers was the best paid of all the Third Reich's broadcasters. And then the prosecution began the playback and our Sixtus suns as well about the fire the door. The prosecution played those records for hours and hours on the arts at once amaticly to a novel. Wo not the busy now got a British slap up? Where else should say that? But we are fighting for them, We're not having all our good wrong

blood for the high quark from the British war. Oh girls, I don't you wake up? The most crucial piece of evidence was the poorest quality recording that radio drama Vision of Invasion, which had been broadcast just before D Day of Invasion. Vision of Invasion was essential to the prosecution's argument about intent because it supported the contention that Gillers

had tried to undermine American morale. Broadcast in the weeks before D Day, it tells the story of an American mother worrying that her son might drown in the English channel during an invasion attempt. Other actors who had performed in the radio play testified that Gillers had performed the role of the mother. But anyone in the courtroom could hear that for themselves. Roosevelt had no right to go

to war, she said. Richard Rivere, the New Yorker reporter, found listening to the stuff in that courtroom with those headphones unbearable. Five years ago, one could listen to it partly for its comic value and partly dissensed the full evil of the thing. But now it has lost its power to either amuse or a rouse. Its only effect is to make one feel ashamed of one's ownership of

a human mind. It got worse for Gillers from there when the prosecution played another record in which Gillers said, damn Roosevelt, and damn Churchill, and damn all of their Jews who have made this war possible. Gillers's attorney answered she had a right to be anti Roosevelt, a right to be anti British, and a right to be anti Jewish.

That was his best argument. Mildred Gillers was convicted of treason, of betraying her country, of having become instrument of psychological warfare because she had tried to cause Americans to doubt their ability to win the war. In nineteen sixty one, when she got out of prison, a reporter asked her for her thoughts after some fifteen years in prison? What am I supposed to say? She was at last speechless.

There's a lot to be learned about the now by looking back to the nineteen forties and at the many costs and tragedies of psychological warfare. In nineteen forty two, the US War Department created a Psychological Warfare branch. It concluded that American troops in the Pacific were being subjected to Japanese psychological warfare. Hollywood got interested. In nineteen forty four, in a Carried Grant film, Americans were introduced to a

Japanese radio broadcast called Tokyo Rose. I can't have anything sparks history. Tokyo Rose giving out with that nightly guff to the USA been defeated in a war, the pseudo you Americans realize that Japan is invincible, so perfect of the iron ring of defensively after the Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor at the end of nineteen forty one, FDR signed an executive order calling for the mass evacuation and mass imprisonment of over one hundred thousand people of Japanese descent

living in the United States. Many of them were US citizens, And then the government put out an especially despicable piece of propaganda defending internment by lying about it evacuation. More than a hundred thousand men, women, and children, all of Japanese ancestry removed from their homes in the Pacific Coach State to wartime community established an out of the way places. Their evacuation did not imply individual dis loyalty. They are not prisoners, They are not in turney. They are merely

displicated people, the unwounded casualties of war. After the war, about the same time the federal authorities were building a case against Mildred Gillers, the Justice Department also got interested and finding and prosecuting a Japanese radio broadcaster. Someone who liked Gillers was an American citizen and so could be

charged with treason. Her name was Iva Tuguri, reading everybody is your number one enemy, your favorite framemate, often an a radio sociate, the little sumby who grosly likes to cut. They're ready again for this is her solve on your morale. The Justice Department began building a case against Tiguri. Meanwhile, the American press decided to refer to her by the name of the fictional character from that Carry Grant movie. They called her Tokyo Rose. But you lad, it's a

good guy. I will five helped do that, hopefully. Who is the first blow. I killed Morale. Hey, I don't want to go away directly. Reporters at the time wrote about the radio ladies together Acces Sally in Tokyo, Rose, Mildred Gillers, and Ivor Toguri, but Tguri's case was in fact nothing like Gillers's case. She was born in Los Angeles on the fourth of July nineteen sixteen. Both her parents were from Japan. She graduated from UCLA in nineteen forty and the next year went to Japan to visit

an aunt who was dying. While she was there, the US and Japan went to war in nineteen forty two. FDR issued his infamous Japanese in Tournament order, and both of Togury's parents were imprisoned in a relocation center in Arizona. Her mother would die there. Tguri was stranded in Japan. She got a job as a typist, first at a news agency and then at Radio Tokyo. Meanwhile, the head of propaganda for the Japanese Army instructed Radio Tokyo to

make its propaganda more effective. The station found three prisoners of war who had been radio announcers before the war, an American, an Australian and a Filipino, and these three men hired to Guri as the host of a new variety show called The Zero Hour. She was mainly what we'd call a DJ not bad, not bad and now

the judikanasi widneys from the American Hall Fronts. Tiguri and the three prisoners of war she worked with were instructed to make propaganda on behalf of Japan to be broadcast to Allied troops, but they seem to have decided to

make fun of access propaganda. Seventy five little sidneys geeks for our friends, I mean I am leaving the South provided Later, Tiguri told the FBI that she tried to give the show a double meaning so that it just wouldn't work as propaganda, and that seems to be borne out by the evidence, which consists of a handful of scripts and a reconstruction of her recordings that Tiguri made

in nineteen forty five after the Japanese surrender. Then, two the people who had worked at Radio Tokyo interrogated by the FBI refused to implicate her. They said she'd been trying not to produce propaganda, but to undermine it. Tiguri was arrested but released for lack of evidence. One reason the evidence against Tiguri was so flimsy was that during the war, Tokyo rose had become a catch all term

for any English speaking woman's voice on Japanese radio. There really was Japanese propaganda on the radio, of course, it just sounded like this. I was the United States trans meeting her years of the full freedoms into her leaving into her labor and the ratio programs. What about her ever present negro problem? Her a notorious slee choose, a rare practice even among savages the Americans. I've completely forgotten that the Negroes are just as much a part of

a humanity of the air themselves. That's what real Japanese propaganda sounded like. Radio Tokyo propagandists talked about race relations in the US all the time. Here's what Iva Takuri sounded like. Thank you, thank you, thank you. It's all an enemy. But there'll be more to thank you night. Until then, there's your number one enemy. G I always will be good good right now? Is that psychological warfare? To me? It really does sound a lot more like

a satire of psychological warfare. Anyway. To convict Aguri of treason. As with Gillers, the government needed two witnesses. He couldn't find them, so it pressured two American born Japanese men, George Mitsushio and Kenichi Oki, who'd go on to Japan during the war and become Japanese citizens. They agreed to testify that Tuguri had taunted American sailors on the air, that she'd said three damning sentences. You fellows have lost all your ships. You really are orphans of the Pacific. Now,

how do you think you will ever get home? On the basis of these words, these three sentences of which no recording survives, the jury found Iva Tuguri guilty of treason. She was sentenced to ten years in prison at the Federal Reformatory for Women in West Virginia, the same prison where Mildred Gillers was serving her time. I don't know if they ever met or what they could possibly have said to one another. Iva Tiguri was released in nineteen fifty six. She went on to run a gift shop

in Chicago. Twenty years after her release. A reporter for the Chicago Tribune tracked down the witness is who testified in her trial. They told the reporter that they'd lied, that they'd been coached and threatened. President Gerald Ford, on his final day in office, pardoned her. But I am still haunted by how she answered a question about her trial on sixty minutes. Had that experience a better ye towards this country. I don't think bid in this is

the word. I'm kind of disappointed that I had to go through what I did because of some untruths, and it couldn't separate the myths from facts. That's one cost, a big cost of conducting psychological warfare. It requires so much lying during a war that when it's all over, it can be hard ever again to separate myths from facts, to sort truth from lies. This is called geography of this time. This is a poem. Archibald McLeish wrote at

the end of the war. He was trying to reckon with what the war had done to time, to nations, to language and to knowledge. What is required of us is the recognition of the frontiers between the centuries. McLeish had the idea that in the aftermath of atrocity, people have to work out all over again how change happens what separates one time from another, one place from another. As if the signposts have fallen, the street signs, the lamp posts, the land is barren, seemingly timeless. Who thought

tomorrow was of the same nation as today. There are many who came to the frontiers between the times and did not know them. Who looked for the sentry box at the stone bridge, for the barricade, and the pines, and the declaration and two lang, which is the warning and the opportunity to turn. They are dead there in

the down light, in the sheep's barren. This, I think, is the actual strategy of truth, reposting the street signs, attaching meaning towards fighting propaganda, with poetry, finding our way on the long road to knowledge in the aftermath of atrocity. What is required of us is the recognition with no sign, with no word, with the roads raveled out into ruts, and the ruts into dust, and the dust stirred by the wind, the roads from behind us ending in the dust.

What is required of us is the recognition of the frontiers where the roads end. We are very far. That's the place I'm trying to get to on this season of the Last Archive across the frontiers of history over Rhodes, rutted by lies and doubt. That place is very far. The Last Archive is written and hosted by me Joe Lapour. It's produced by Sophie Crane, mckibbon and Ben Natt of Hafrey. Our editor is Julia Barton, and our executive producer is

Mia Lobel. Martin Gonzalez is our engineer. Fact checking by Amy Gaines. Original music by Matthias boss and John Evans of Stellwagen Symfinett. Our research assistants are Michelle Gau, Olivia Oldham and Oliver Riskin. Cuts special thanks to Joan Donovan and Simon Leake. Our full proof players are Yoshia Mao, Raymond Blankenhorne, Matthias Bossi, Dan Epstein, Ethan Herschenfeld, Becca A. Lewis and Ruper Hello, Robert Roccatta and Nick Saxton. The

Last Archive is a production of Pushkin Industries. At Pushkin thanks to Jacob Weisburg, Heather Fame, John Schnarz, Harley Migliori, Christina Sullivan, Eric Sandler, Emily Rostak, Maggie Taylor, Maya Kanig and Daniella Lacan Many of us out effects are from Harry, Janette Junior, and the Star Jenette Foundation. If you like the show, please remember to rate, share, and review. To find more Pushkin podcasts, listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you listen at podcasts. I'm Jill Lapoor.