Ep. 387: WWF's Unforgiven 1999 (Part 1)

We're back on that bullshit here at that fucking cast boss. Huh, back in that archives, back in that attitude era. Oh, yes, what the fuck we're gonna do? What right? I mean, coming off Philly, coming off all this themed and hyper specific programming, we we took the random hat out and uh we did it old school, didn't we? We went fucking old school. This is a this is such a you know, this was I'm gonna tell you this is this was drawn old school style.

All right, I've got I've got I'm seriously, in all of my moving from place to place, I have a fucking plastic container filled with you know, pieces of paper that have all the shows that we haven't done from the last Golden age. Yes, like we're talking. We're talking since I don't know, like for years, probably at least half of the existence of the laps Fan, I have had this fucking ground Himalayan pink salt uh container. That's what it was. It's it's and and so just put put the hand

in and saw what came out. You know, obviously I haven't taken out some shows I forget sometimes, but this was the first one that came out unforgiven. Nine and nine. We have such wacky memories of this this time period and of this show. This was the first, This was the first non Big five pay per view that I ever bought. That is a fascinating string to pull on, and we will do that. Yep, it's it's

it gets started. It's total serendipity. Though of course you know what would happen, right, We choose to show out of the clear blue sky and then we once we got into it, think about this, Okay, yeah, yeah, as Triple H takes the helmets to oh yes, yes, yes. And was the storyline at the time not that Vince McMahon was sidelined anticipation in WWE. Yes, and you were not all out on TV anymore at the hands of at the hands of Stone call Steve Austin beating me undertake

her at fully Loaded. I mean, this is a year where we paid extra close attention to every little nook and cranny and every little twist and turn the masses. I mean, just like it on a you know, per per capita basis. How many people were watching wrestling every Monday night in nineteen ninety nine. Oh, I know, don't you ever forget it? And you can do all the Matthew want about how many fewer homes have cable these

days than before. But let me tell you, if you were riding the wave of ninety nine and you were a teenager and you were of the demographic they were targeting and riding all the way to the bank, wrestling never felt bigger. Yep. And it's when Triple H consolidates power and starts moving the chess pieces around where suddenly we have to accept, even though no one was asking for it, that he is now the top guy in the business,

that we really realized that this is actually where this is all heading. It's all about Triple H's gamesmanship. Yes, Austin and Rock is over. There's still a little bit, there's still a little bit of steam on the tail end. But as soon as Austin and Rock Peter rout and you know, go other directions and look to other pastures, it's it's the Triple H show. And as we sit here today in twenty twenty four, it still is. Yep. It has been ever since. It has been twenty five years

of pain. It's this precise period in nineteen ninety nine where it all comes into full relief where you start to realize that he actually has figured out how to play the whole system like a fiddle to keep himself in the forefront, even if, like I said, no one was clamoring for it. We've done SummerSlam ninety nine before, which of course is the pay per view that

precedes this September nineteen ninety nine pay per view event. But SummerSlam does not end with Triple H hoisting the championship, as does not originally, and I honestly can't remember we did Summer Slam ninety nine so long ago, how much depth we got into about how the machinations, you know, politically, it led to, of all people mankind getting his hand raised with Governor Jesse Ventre at SummerSlam and winning the championship getting the pinfall instead of Steve Austin losing to

Triple A. Yep. But it's here, unforgiven, where we really can pick up the true nature of the stories, because of course it's the next night after Summer Slam, on Monday Night, Triple H wins the ww F Heavyweight title for me the first time. Let's think about that for a moment too. It's like, you know, think about the fact that within four weeks the championship changed twice and was vacated. It's almost like this is Vince

Russo's last WWF pay per views. Yeah, for sure. It's another part of the reason that this is so fascinating, such a fascinating time, because you can talk about what was great about the Attitude erero, but this is

sort of it all unraveling. Yes, yeah, because you know it's funny, you know, you know, because you you know those when you're watching the prime Attitude era stuff like starting in ninety seven, it all culminates with really I mean, yes, it should have been Wrestlmania fifteen, but in reality it is the fully loaded show when Vince smick Mann is off TV and then and then it's like all of a sudden, it's like where where are

we going now? Like this is I remember feeling such a bizarre sense of transition in this because keep in mind too, like you know, you're thinking about Vince sick Man wins the championship with the help of stonecle Steve Austin, he helps him win the championship. Yeah, this is a pride of the wrestlmin he seventeenth finish, right like Triple H is the bigger threat now than even Vince McMahon, and so it's just very very bizarre. Uh uh uh.

You know you could feel at the time that they didn't know exactly where to go. What are we doing now? You know, without without Austin and McMahon is the centerpiece. What what where are we going with this thing? And it totally you can you can feel uncertainty. Yeah, there's a boring from like a dedicated direction. Yeah, like this show between between Summer Slam and Armageddon, there seems to be this just like not no one knows what the fuck is going on, and we're gonna try what we can with

this Triple H guy and see what the fuck happens. In in retrospect, it kind of fits the pattern of Russeau reaching a burnout period like in WCW, like when he would disappear, you know, once every like eighteen months

or fourteen months or whatever it would be. There would be a period of television that was just totally you know, I don't want to say directionless, but it really really felt like they were making it up week to week, even more so than the usual crash TV format style where there was at least a guiding principle to get to the next pay per view, And here it just became like, wait a minute, who are we supposed to care about?

You know, like who, yeah, yep, Because Steve Austin had hurt his knee several weeks out from SummerSlam and was making noise about that, you know, limiting the amount that he could do. And then, of course, as we'll get into there's all kinds of you know, political intrigue about him really not being interested in putting over Triple H the way you know,

the company was wanting to see and playing games to get there. But then you know, it's it's the pattern of when Russo can't move the chess piece as precisely as he wants, right, it really starts to get weird and stuff starts to happen with no particular apparent explanation. Like, for a minute, remember China was going to get the title shot. They worked up a SummerSlam graphic of China versus Steve Austin that was like two weeks out from

SummerSlam. What the fuck are they doing? What they're doing is responding to a lot of things that they can't control, right, yep, and we know that that's scary that are happening backstage, and this show is the ultimate off the rails in that regard. I mean Chris Jericho Russell's XPOC on this show. They made that match on Heat because Ken Shermrock just didn't want to do it and he was hurting. Wasn't that? Wasn't that too? There

were two matches that that that happened like watless right right. They made the match against Christian on the Sunday Heat show right before this. They didn't even have enough Those two matches are Jericho Xbox was a semi main no idea what they were doing, uh fuck till the day of the show, and they mixed and matched the of course, this is the very first six pack challenge match for the w WF Championship Triple H. I feel like it's the only

one. They've never done this again, have they? I don't think they have, no. Not as many words there's been they've used the term again. I know that, I know they've used the term six pack challenge before, but I don't think it was this. Two guys in the rating four guys on the apron Tag Rules first Pin did what the hell In the Celle one they did an Armory Geddon six pack challenge. Maybe that might have been

called an Army Geddon six pack challenge, but that wasn't tag. It was certainly it was every man for himself that a case, which totally changes the nature in a case. Yeah, right, and so there's no rules there and no need to tag, you know, exactly exactly. But yeah, I mean, let's not forget between Triple H winning the belt on Raw the night after Summer Slam and getting to unforgiven where the title is held up. Who wins the belt in the interim Vince McMahon wins the w WF Champion chip

in the interim. I think that's fair. Take a look at the amount of WWF title changes in nineteen ninety, nineteen thirteen, thirteen thirteen title changes, thirteen title changes in nineteen eighty nine alone. I mean, look at the thinking about this too. From Summer Slim until the end of the year, you've got uh, Triple H, you know, Mankind beating Triple beating Austin. You've got Triple H beating Mankind. You got vinsick Man beating Triple

H. You got the vacate, you know, titles vacated. So Triple H wins it again, then the Big Show fucking wins it. And I don't know does does does Triple H win in ninety nine or is it early two thousand when he wins it again? I don't January fourth, two thousand, Monday Night. Right, So we're talking five times, five times such a bankable headliner. Now that two out of his three title wins in the beginning of his career right on pay per view, right what he san to

review main events? Right? But this arm unforgiven nineteen ninety nine, it is the first time Triple H wins the title in a main event of a

pay per view or a pay review at all. Yes, so that that's sort of significant, and it really I remember feels like the first time where they were like where I felt like, Okay, they actually did mean it with Triple H. The yeah, the Vince McMahon detour was not an indication that they were getting cold feet on a Triple H run, which I remember thinking for a moment back then, it kind of worked, you know, in a way, in a way it gave although I remember even feeling,

you know, this fucking Triple H's champion is weird, like it just doesn't feel right, probably until I probably when he won it again from Big Show, it didn't feel right. But it was that came up, don't forget that came along with the d X two thousand reunion too, right, which you know and Helmsley era. This is this, This Triple H is before he gets together. This is all exactly, this all before that. This

is before the the Test Angle, the whole fucking thing. Yeah, this is all pre that, before pre Triple pre d X d X doesn't even fucking you know, re reunited yet only the only the Outlaws have. It's true, you know, even though they talk about degeneration next fucking presenting there the the the Do Do tag team champions, which right, right, but no, there's no degeneration acts right now. It's dead. It's dead.

And that's kind of a weird thing to that. Yeah, because they pretended that Bro Dog was moving on when the ic strap that Billy Gun was moving on winning nineteen ninety nine King of the Ring, even though that was not necessarily plan a. But you know, wrestling the Rocket SummerSlam, did Billy gunn It's like, okay, you know that my main becoming to my main too. Yeah, exactly. It was the it was big. It was a big thing for them. But man, I was this whole thing,

you know, I remember, Yeah, it was. I was very invested in what was going on on TV. You really had to watch every week like the years must see like you say, you could not miss a week

because it was still entertaining enough. But also it was such that like if you missed week, you couldn't pick up the next week and understand who was what and what was up right down, And it was just like and again, it just it just felt so weird because, like I said, you could feel that the main draw was over, like he just felt it. You just felt, I felt that Stone Cold was checked out. You didn't

know about the injuries and stuff. Of course, he would get hit by a car at Survivor's Series ninety nine and undergo pretty invasive next surgery that would keep him right out of action for over a year or just about a year. But I don't know, you just felt like, thank God for the Rock because totally there's still someone there to get that, like we need we need it, baby face pop the guys, you know mm hmm, yeah, the rock and he's fucking like he's off the fucking chain, like he's

insane in this stupid match too. He's just nuts. I know, he's just so fucking bonkers, you know with his he's so fast, he's so over the top. But it's all great. Oh you know, there's nothing bad about it. Like the way he throws stumps were like his thigh muscle like you know shape some vibrates and convulses, or the way he charges down the ring and I'm in the the the aisleway and fucking clothes lines triple h

out of nowhere that's actually there as it gets It's so fun. Yeah, seriously, it's so fucking wild, like to see all this shit, like, you know, trimble h has cut the legs off his pants now and he just has trunks. So we're looking at it. Yes, indeed we've got but he's still uh, he's still it's still his time though. Yeah, that's when the song came out. My time this is it's not yet

the game, but he coins the game phrase before slam. He says it for the first time and to sit down at interview with Jim Ross on Heat, I am in the game. We'll play it in a little while. What that means, he explains, He says, you know, I don't just play the game. I am in the game. So basically his gimmick is somebody that found a way to become champion even though the people weren't, you know, crying for so I am. Yeah, so I am the game. It's like, okay, it's all the game. Terribly interested.

I'm like, I don't I don't play the game. I am the game. Okay, so other people are playing you? Is that? What? What are you? Shoots and ladders because you're not spelling shoots s h O O T. Yes, I'll tell you that you got right of anybody that could shoot there's anywhere near your orbit works in ladder matches is what it should be, right, Essentially, just a fascinating time and so much happening, and it's such a different feeling. You're starting to get about the central cast

of the WWF's resurgent Renaissance period of nineteen ninety eight to ninety nine. And I was just so so. I just graduated high school in in May of nine and nine. I mean yeah, may may have eight, may have ninety nine and so I was, uh, you know, and I didn't go to Emerson right away, so I was right, I was, I was this is when I you know what this is when I was interning for uh, mister ken Burns on the Jazz the Jazz film speaking of insurance.

It's right, indeed, but yeah, so like this was just a weird, Like it wasn't even just weird with the company. It was weird for me, Like I was just in a weird situation where it's like I'm I'm out of high school, but I'm still you know, day and night living at home and just you know, and Monday, you know, Mondays, I made make sure I was fucking home from fuck ken Burns. I gonna

watch raw. Yeah, you know. In two thousand and one, I graduated, and it was still like I still felt like nineteen ninety nine was a point where things felt deferly. I totally agree. I felt almost feel like I wasn't in high school for the last two years. I feel like, you know, ninety eight ninety nine WWF, the way that was presented was high school was our our generations high school on Wi Yes, Yes. The zeitgeist was captured in WWF and after Russo leaves in September ninetynine October ninety

nine and jumps WCW and they put Chris Cresny in charge. You know, they keep a lot of the same accouterments about the product. They keep a lot of the the edgy and racy stuff. In fact, they I think, out of a sense of panic. They even push a little too hard on that pedal agreed by by December of ninety nine, you know, on pay review, yep, and and all the rest. So miss Titty, you mean Miss Titty exactly. So you know, they kind of kept a

little bit of that. But then you know, the radicals come over at the beginning of two thousand and then it becomes, you know, two thousand such an amazing year for them, their most profitable. So you can't say that's just because Russo left and the nature of the product changed. That you know, the record business that the Attitude era signifies was over. But two thousand was a lot different. Yes, that all television was a lot different

to the better in my opinion, to my tastes. But you can't say that, like you know, for example, the Raw where Chris ben wapins the rock Clean is the kind of raw you would have gotten in ninety seven, ninety eight, ninety nine. Yeah, right exactly. They're they're starting to they're starting to spotlight kind of an elongate parts of the shows that they never would have before because WCW is offering absolutely no resistance ye by two thousand

from a rating standpoint. They're just picking the bones at W at this point and having some fun with it, and you know, focusing on things like the XFL and all these other fucking, you know, machinations they started to have going on. After all that cash from the October nineteen ninety nine IPO they went public and it was just like, oh my god, there's so much money slashing around now WW opens up all that shit. Did you say IP? I certainly said I no, IP Oh yes, oh fucking hell

mine as well. The band aid was ripped off in Philly. Oh boy, I can tell you that, folks. We can tell you that I love band aids. I love ripping them off. So I love ripping my fans off too. Sometimes. Indeed, won afraid to say, but yeah, Russo leaving and we've told the story one hundred times, we'll tell it

again on this episode because this is this is really the last one. I mean he kind of left right around No Mercy as di Jeff Jyard, of course, who appeared on Russo's first Nitro jump ship after doing the famous hold up the WWS for one hundred and fifty grand to lose the Intercontinental title to Chi at the November of the October No Mercy pay per view. So that was kind of like the vestiges, the the vapors of what Russo would set

down still up in the air a bit. But this is the last, you know, this is the last one where they still think he's on the team and all that. But you can start to see I mentioned it before, and I've told the story before. I probably have that, you know.

Around this time, I started trying to make like a compilation VHS tape of every world title change in both promotions WWF andww and I kind of did it, thinking, Wow, would have been cool to have like every title change and order on tape in ninety eight and ninety seven and six because I was ordering every pay per view, I was taping every television show. I wasn't going to miss anything, And man, did I picked the wrong year to start doing this because seriously, by the end of Next ninety nine,

I had a tape that was ludicrously chalk full of title changes. It did not capture only these historic moments, look I expected. I mean, I'm isolating, you know, Vince winning the championship. I'm isolating that time on Thunder when Kevin Nash won the world title in like a top hat by pinning someone other than the champion. I mean, you know, it was ridiculous. And who was booking both the WWF and WCW side of that ridiculous slatee

of hot potato title changes? Who but Vince Russo on both sides of the equation, of course, and you start to see a lot of that.

In fact, Ivan was kind of thinking it through, thinking back to TNH and the suppositions a lot of people made in the scuttle but that you know, when Vince Rousseau felt like his power may have been under threat by the arrival Hogan and Bischoff, that he started to book things around Dixie Carter in an attempt to make her a television star and an attempt to sort of make the boss someone that needed him to sort of, you know, have like

a reason to hold up her star presence on television, or at least, you know, be the one that she thought through whom she could be a television star, and without whom she would struggle to be a television star,

to come up with the material, the dialogue, whatever. And people used to say that that was a play like try to kiss Dixie's ass by putting her on television and convincing her that she's actually a wonderful performer and a keykog and and what caused the Bischoff Russell fallout in TNAS we talked about, well this Bischof says it was because at one point they got everybody in a room and it was sort of like he was telling Bischoff, my god, Eric,

Dixie's forcing me to put her on TV. I can't stand this. And then on the other side, Dixie, you got to be on TV. I'm telling you, you just create it. I'm putting words in people's mouths. I don't give a fuck, but I'm just saying, that's that's the essence of it, you know, I mean, you can't deny that

that that's the essence of what was going on. I think. So it's the essence of what people were sort of discerning, but by looking at the patterns and how how sort of forced Dixie Carter's involvement on television suddenly was when

things got like this, yeah, as a TV character. And and then I look at Vince and I look at them putting the strap on him, and I'm like, you know, it's interesting because when you read Vince Russo's first book, and he doesn't talk about all these details all the time when he goes over how he left WWF to him, it's just come down to over the years, Vince said, why don't you hire a nanny to watch

your kids? And I couldn't countenance that. Plus the workload of suddenly being added SmackDown, being added to his plate without any extra compensation, which you know understandable, and Ed Ferrara, his writing buddy kind of exiting the picture and looking to kind of step away would only add to his workload and things like that. But what does he do when he's in a position of insecurity like that. He puts the spotlight on his boss. He puts the spotlight

on somebody who he needs to be in favor of to stay employed. It's so, it's it's what a yep, you know, it's funny. I never really, I never I started researching this show. I was like, you know, this kind of fits. It's a fucking trend that he does. It's a it's a it's a routine, it's a it's a symptom of It's yeah, it's really, it's a part. It's in a playbook somewhere.

Yeah. And one of the one of the things he mentions in his first book that he doesn't really talk about when he discusses leaving WBF is is that he was pitched an opportunity to write a treatment for a network television show about a pro wrestling booker, like the Larry Sanders Show about wrestling. Sure, Nash had the idea too, and everyone's had this idea. Fuck it, you know, behind the word what if nitro was us making nitro?

That's the fucking you know, that's that's the for the fucking money is It's like, you know, like totally Larry Sanders, you know, fucking HBO, that whole thing. That'd be fucking Look if a let's let's try Bernie Sanders right now in America. You know, if we can't do fucking you know, if we can't do Larry Sanders or fucking Bernie sent Colonel Sanders right, And of course we end up with above average Mike Sanders, which is perhaps the biggest tragedy of all, A solid C plus that was his gimmick.

God, I guess that's something to be proud of. Tell me what to tune in, let me set my DVR. I wonder what happened to him? Jeez. So I'm looking at this thing and I'm like, yeah, I was in a movie. You know what's that? He's in a movie? Oh he's under the cinemat qualifier. Oh, yes he is. I believe that he kind of had his movie jobs. He kind of he's getting I mean, nothing, nothing spectacular, but he's got a couple he said, a couple of credits under his belt. Did not survive the WWF

purchase. WCW. But I'm thinking of this situation, and I'm looking in the book and it says that, you know, he was offered the opportunity to write this show and really wanted to lean into it. It was kind of like an Ed Ferrara connection, because Ed Ferrara had had history writing television before he came to WWF. So that was sort of his his world already, in a world that, according to Vince Russo at least ed, Ferrara

wasn't exactly too enthusiastic about diving headlong into. He kind of saw wrestling as his exit from a Hollywood world that he didn't really I don't know, didn't really relish being a part of anymore, didn't really want to search the same way. I kind of feel like that was that part of his career was over, I guess. Anyway, Russo ends up discussing the idea with Vince Vince McMahon, and according to Russo, McMahon's just like immediately trying to get

his fingers in the pie immediately. So I love I love it, but you know, we should go into this together, you know, I love we should expand entertainment whatever. I think this would be an excellent entertainment vehicle for the WW and for you know, I think I think we have I think we have an opportunity here. Yeah, I know that I think that this is money for me, none for you, or at least a lot

less for you than you think you deserve. You know, I think this is definitely something that that could be very exciting in a in a h a partnership of sorts. You know, I think I think the way to get about this my partnership vance. What do you mean by part I mean, here's the thing, here's the thing, this is this is what you want it. Now. I understand that that you know, you get network involvement. That's the way that that goes. But here's here's the deal. You

want creative control. I want you to have creative control, all right. So I think the best way to go about this is make it a Titan production, you know, not a not a Russo isolated production, but a a Titan production. Keep it in house, in family, and I think we will have the opportunity to I think we I think the WWE as a as as the current exploding entertainment conglomerate, that we are where we are reaching. You know, not only are we are we a smash on Wall Street?

We are also a a smash obviously with ratings and pay per view quality entertainment. But what I what I think is that I think the leverage is there. I'm not trying to obviously, you know, when do I want to be I want to be completely fair and say you know you got you You were one of the reasons that we got there, hands down, no question. But do people really know what a Vince Russo is? Well?

Wow? Know in all fairness, Bro and I and it means a lot coming from you, Bro, And I appreciate what you said, Bro, But when I look at the situation, because they came to me, Bro, they came to me as the os. They already know who I am. Bro. It's very apparent they do. They do, they do listen, and you know what, and I and I applaud you for having that leverage and for for for really you know, moving the needle in that regards now what I wanted, what I think is is the best thing that we

do. Let's circle back here for a moment, because at the end of the day, let's think about what the bottom line is, all right, where are we aligned? What's the wheelhouse? Where do we you know, Let's you and me touch base on this and kind of work on that that you know, on the holistic approach to furthering the branding and the entertainment value of the entertainment concept that we are that we are currently in the process of

development of develop thing all right, because we are constantly developing. He gives, you know, a lie. He then launches into a description of what the company is. We are listening, you know, you know this. We are a publicly traded developmental program of entertaining and entertainment properties. Uh you know, yeah, no one knows that. Listen, I understand. And you know what listen you are. You are that next gen r O I that w W E needs. That's right, that's right, or russo on

investment. All right, So here's just let me just have just give me the script for a moment. I just want to I just want to touch it. Let me let me have it for a moment. Okay, yeah, yeah, this is this is good. This is good, this is good. Let me just take I'm just going to take a gander on it, kind of see what what what you know? What you got here? And I see okay, very good, very good, very good. Patterson. Patterson got it. He's got the pages and we're not talking about White

House pages. So fuck all right. And it's gonna be called rope opera, Okay, of course it is. And he really wants to do this thing, and he wants to do it outside of the control of Vince, and Vince wants to basically rewrite it, of course, and he's pissed about this because he thinks this is his chance, because you know, Vince Rousseau is like a lot of people in wrestling, they kind of deep down think

that they're capable of being real Hollywood. You know how that goes. Big fan of the movies, big fan of Hollywood screenwriting, you know's course something we all are. We all are so and suddenly WWE, while facilitating the opportunity in so many ways, is standing in the way of him taking full advantage of it. Typical story where Vince kind of reminds you that like when comes to shows, he will he will go to the grave trying to prove

that you are not anything without him. And I think he's got victories in ninety five percent of those come to Jesus moments, and so you can't almost can't blame him for having that perspective. This was Vincrusso's turn. And then it becomes about I want a million more dollars to write smack Down a year because I can't do it. Then it becomes about how I never see my kids and my wife's gonna you know, leave me or whatever the fuck it

is. Right then it becomes about, you know, the talent is difficult to execute my vision, and Stone Cold has an injury that I'm specious of because I hear him in the background talking to all his friends and laughing and hunting while he's telling me on the phone he can't do what I've proposed because

he's hurt. He puts that little dig in this book for example, that's when Russo starts starting into the guy that no one is going to execute what I want to do anyway, and so I'm being set up for failure. You know, no one is as quick to come to the conclusion that he's being set up for failure than Vince Ruso. Yep, of course. And so that's what started to happen at this precise point in WWF. If if I'm reading t leaves correctly, and I'm pretty sure i am, I mean

from their own books, in their own mouths. So all that is the backdrop to him eventually, you know, leaving WWF overnight, you know, leaving a taping, going to Atlanta, reaching the deal with WCW, and then telling Vince over the phone right after cutting the deal, that I'm basically not going to be at TV on Monday, and I've signed with WCW, and that's that. And Vince makes a couple of attempts to counteroffer, and he's gone, makes good money and we all know where that goes from there.

By the end of nineteen ninety nine, he's and in the very very beginning of two thousand, he's already pushed out of the booking position at WCW. Has to find his way back in via an alliance with Eric Bischoff. But that's all you know in the archives elsewhere like the Star Kid memorial to

or Bash the Beach two thousand, et cetera. But here is that moment of truth in so many ways for a Vince Russo, who you know, had his in promat on everything that epitomizes the Attitude era, you know, the style of promos, the speed of the television, the amount of backstage vine in this pay per view, you see like Luna and Ivory having a backstage brawl, you know, you see Mullah and Young involved in physical angles. You see. Know, it's so ridiculous. It's such a fucking I

mean, it's it's attitude. It's attitude. It's attitude known so many ways, and you were very right to put your signpost at fully Loaded nineteen ninety nine as a period where things started to shift, where we can look back and say, Okay, that's when the kind of chain of events that results in the rest of nineteen ninety nine were truly set in motion. And we'll go back to that here here in just a moment before we continue our table

setting for Unforgiven nineteen ninety nine. We are of course obliged to remind you here at TLF that Patreon dot com slash the lapsed Fan is fucking rocking. Yes it is. And we've got premium live events and premium live calls up the wazoo coming up for your consumption from Saudi Arabia and France. Are you excited about these? Just the time of daily shows? Ye, they're really going to test God, God bless Cody because he's gonna have to fucking singer

swim right now. Yeah. You got you know, you've got Seth going out with the knee injury. You've got Becky, you know, basically taking a hiatus. You've got rear Ripley separating her shoulder. You've got the rock disappearing to go make the smashing machine. Yeah, we've got Roman Reigns on vacation for an untold amount of time, for three years. Probably we're gonna really figure this thing out quick in terms of whether yep, a new era

indeed was set in place in Philadelphia or not. Is Cody gonna be able to take it? Is he gonna be able to handle it? Is he gonna be able to do business? We'll be here to render the lapse judgment

for those who join us on Patreon. Of course, alliver are on the ground reporting from Philadelphia, including some wonderful interviews with folks at Wrestle Khan as well as some people that remember the old days of taping TV at Allentown, all the rest of that stuff available for you there, and of course under the cinemat very much belly of Rails. Oh yes, it's that bond Journey, tell him about it. It is. It's Carnies are forever we are.

We are chronicling twenty one of the twenty five or twenty six James On films in existence, actually twenty seven twenty seven bonds, because we we are including the ones that are that are sort of the as I've said, the Rogue Bond films that were released. Yes, and we just did On Her Majesty's Secret Service, which I really really enjoyed. It was a good movie, wasn't it. I think it's gonna be my favorite. We'll see. Yeah, it's a very it's very good. It's a very good movie.

It's a it's very underrated. It's a lot of fun, takes, risks, it absolutely does. It's darker than than than most of the other Bonds. And you know, and we had our one and done bond with with mister George Lazenby, and uh, he was quite a trip. And tell the folks about who the wrestler in the movie is the wrestler, Yes, the wrestler in On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Yuri Borenkle. What you know about Yuri Bodrienko besides nothing, no googling, no cheating, You don't know

nothing about this man. We're going to do something about that under the cinemat. We're gonna do everything we can. You know, he's it's it's definitely it's He's definitely a challenge, that's for sure. And you know, there's gonna be a lot of challenges there. There's there are some guys that are that are being really dug up again, but we'll see. I love doing that. That's always part of the fun is is really is expanding the knowledge

of of what we of what we maybe know about these guys. Maybe re rehashing some guy's uh uh uh a wrestling career when he's been basically dead and dead and or forgotten. Yes, so that's always a lot of fun. So it's Yeah, as someone who really never took in a complete Bond film from beginning to end, I can tell you, if you're anywhere in my camp, if you've been so wrestling obsessed your life, for your life that

you can't even fucking make time watch the Bond. Of course, under the cinemat is the opportunity to normalize that missing part of your personality wrestling you of And I just have been able to see so many pivotal and important films because of this project. And of course, yeah, it's been fun. Long may it continue? So many more Bonds to come? Right? I mean, what how many more bonds? I mean we're in uh what this was our fifth? I think so far we've got we get sixteen more to go.

What's the problem. I know what's the problem. We don't real last fucking journey. We stay until we finish the damn right hashtag lamb or Bitch hashtag TLFX. As we continue rocking and rolling in the celebration of ten years of existence, and very proud to say the Titan Nutrition remains in our corner as we continue venturing into our tenth year. As you know from previous episodes, we are huge supporters of Titan Nutrition products. You've heard us talk about

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We're continuing many journeys here. But before we got back in and Unforgiven nineteen ninety nine, cameo pro Wrestling Tease tell oh yeah, open for business, Cameo dot com Slash the Lapsed Fan, get on it. Your opportunity, Listen, it's a rare thing when we'll do one for ourselves. Just ask for a character. It's your opportunity to dictate canon in regards to the Lapsed Rogues gallery of characters. It is. It is always, even when it's

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there. We have a we have a couple of t lf X shirts available. Better way I agree to mark ten years of relentless casting. We had tlf X come for the wrestling stay for the reality right there. We we do have a carnisar Forever shirt for this for the cinemat dive. We've got we got one for I did literally just to just to a pleasure myself.

We have a lapse fan lapsed and order shirt sure says pain leads the way exactly, So uh, virgin Mania, get your virgin Mania, you know, speaking of which to yeah, the you know, rest and peace, celebrate the legacy of Virgil as we are doing over at Wrestle Mamia right now. Oh tell them about it. That's a very only to our moat team

members on Patreon. We are we are I. I took the opportunity too to do a four match dive with with my mom and go through kind of the highlights of the Virgil DBS feud as our little tribute and it goes from registers with kind of like a disinterested party like her totally. Oh yeah, for sure. I mean she's but she you know, she knows Virgil because of the whole party, So there's a very there's a you know, she's got a connection with that, so it is it is kind of funny.

So we're doing we get the Rumbo ninety one tag match of course, then there's the SummerSlam match and then that one just dropped, so people will have or no, that one was last week. The one that just dropped would have been the rematch, the rematch on Primetime Wrestling where DEBIASI wins back the belt. Wow, what you know about Debase winning the million dollar title back

from Virgil winning back from Virgil? And then we close it off with the Tuesday and Texas tag match with Vergin, Mattador versus Deebes and the Repo Man. If you're out there on the sidelines of Wrestle Mommy and think who would want to listen to a mother of this guy talk about the matches, I would say to you two things. A everyone who does would be an answer to that question, Yes, and B you comes soon. Yes. Wrestle

mom unbelievable. It's like being back on the living room carpet yep watching rest sing in a room full of people that just no matter how often they see it, don't understand. They can't make it make sense because it's ludicrous. I can't. I can't tell you how many times I've had to explain to my mom how a pin fall works. She says, you know, she'll see a guy on the ground on the mat on his stomach with nobody covering him. Why isn't the referee counting? Well, Mom, he's not well,

number one, he's the ground. You can't just be on the ground like you. You know, well, I don't understand. Well okay, mom. First of all, he's going to be on his back. Oh, he has to be on his back, Yes, Mom, I told you that last time. Oh, I see. Okay, So he needs to be on his back. I see, and his shoulders have to be on the mat. Oh oh I see, I see, And he has to cover the guy. That's the whole idea, is going to pin the guy. Mom. Amazing, amazing, just rocking and rolling in all fronts,

all cylinders firing. You know where to find us, don't front, don't front. You know where to find us to get that full experience. And to say nothing of the fact that for your Patreon dollar you get ad free versions of this podcast. Yes, you get our you know, second part of two parters before anybody else. Yes, you get the monthly live calls as we watch modern WW So you don't have to. Yes, it's

very basic what you should be doing. So with those public service announcements out of the way, now the little lapsed hygiene has been attended to take us back to fully loaded. Boss. You mentioned it already, and I'm glad you did, because that was going to start. Yeah, well, why do you remember this show is kind of putting us in the direction we end up in a unforgiven ninety nine? Well, because it was it really it was the finale, you know, it was. It was the they hyped

it up as the finale of the Austin McMahon feud. It was they were finally putting a cap on it. And the idea was it was a championship match, Austin defending the title against Undertaker. I mean also, by the way, the amount of fucking times, it's like, you know, you talk about missing a week of television and all of a sudden, right, you know, you don't fucking know, like that's what happened. Like I didn't see the raw after Owen died. I had no fucking idea that Undertaker

won the world title. Oh my god, no fucking it. All of a sudden, Undertaker has the championship belt, Like what is going on here? And then and then like I missed the raw after King of the Ring and all of a sudden, Austin's got the title back and I'm like, what where did this happen? What happened here? I'll just say when we approaching Attitudarra's show, it is so much more daunting from a research perspective than some of the courts from the eighties and nineties were, like, you know,

things happen and the leads up to shows. But I mean here, it's like you have to remember so much, you have to recall and review and revisit and redocument so much. Oh yeah, to put yourself back into the skin you were wearing at the time, which is what we try a hardest to do here. And it's like on Hiss attitude, it's like, oh my god, there's like fifty thousand considerations. Oh it's absurd, it

is. But yes, so many people who have who turned around and told their story and shoot interviews and books and all kinds of different formats, and it's like everyone's perspective is there. It's not like there's only you know, two or three people who are around who have told their stories in a fulsome way to get your hands around, and it's like everybody, everybody at some point was paid to talk about this time period. It was so hot,

yep, yep. It was like the whole shooting interview industry was basically founded on the idea of people shooting on what it was like backstage during the Attitude era. Yeah, I mean that's it was so. I mean because the idea is like if it's if it's so chaotic on TV, how chaotic is it backstage? Like what could possibly account for how this TV ended up? What was happening back there where this was what you had to put in front of people, right and so yeah, So like I remember when they were

built, when they were hyping that up. Austin had just won he was the champion again, and they were he was defending the title against Entertaker in a first blood match, which was like and I'll tell you what I remember the most was was kind of being let down by the fact that number one Vince McMahon's I mean, I get what they were trying to do. They're trying to hype up the fact that any show is a big show, But I was like, why is why is Man's time on television being like put

up on a fucking b show, right, you know? And big stipulation? Yeah, and why a first blood match like Why is this a straight fucking wrestling match? It just felt so lame. Well, you know, Russo is, you know, pretty preoccupied with beating stipulations on things. I get it, but like, listen, I'm all about that. I don't even mind. Like, to me, what was missing was that there wasn't like first blood matches. But why not have it a cage match? Why

don't have it a hell want to sell? Why don't have it a fucking Usually first ut is to get someone out of having to do something approximating a clean job. I guess, I guess. I mean you could do that with a cage match too, where a guy climbs out of the ring like, don't gets pinned, you know. But like I was just so disappointed that it was a first blood match, like that doesn't that to me fell so underwhelming for the epic Yeah, for the stakes and the epic finale of

Austin and McMahon. It just didn't feel right. Yeah. Well, you just you kind of sense that even though they would deliver a finish that that that wouldn't be the state of play for every long after the show leaves, you're like, this is not a major show. This is not a clean finish. This is gimmicked up, and sure enough, within like two or three weeks, everything that was kind of resolved here is in quiet again and up in the air again. Yeah, and Steve Austin, you know,

basically goes back on banishing Vince McMahon as a result of this outcome. So in the match, let's see, well, the higher Power right had come in and that was revealed to be Vince McMahon and then Linda and Stephanie team up to fuck him over. Linda resigns as CEO and they give Austin the reins right. So Steve Austin is now the CEO of Wweyes in the summer of nineteen ninety nine, and there's a handicapped lader match at King of the

Ring for control of WWE. Austin loses that one, and then on the June twenty eighth raw, McMahon names Triple H number one contender to Undertaker's title and announces that Austin would be fired as CEO going down to the bottom of the ladder. So I feel like, if we really want to trace the first instances of like they're really going to push Triple H. It was it was late June of nineteen ninety nine where they were mentioning him as somebody that

was in contention for the championship. Of course, turned on Kin at WrestleMania fifteen and broke off from DX and right he pretty much killed that night. DX died really WrestleMania fifteen, I think, or or maybe it was a little bit later. What did he give? Did he give Waltman a pedigree? It was against Kane? What was the deal there? I'm trying to remember he gave Yeah, Well it was uh no. So what happened It

was so fucking nuts. So what happened was China had turned on Triple H right in like January, and they reunited here all right, And then in the Triple H faced Kine yep, Triple H beat Kine I think with China's help, and they reunited and everyone was happy. Degeneration access here Da Da Da Da. Then Xbox Defending is going for the European title, which was held by Shane McMahon. That's it, and ble Age comes out seemingly to help x POC instead turns on XPOC and it's revealed that that's it. Triple

H and China had were part of the corporation. I forgot it was both in the same show. That's why I was getting it was dirt. It

was one match, double whammy. It was so bonkers, yep, right, And so that turned out to be them setting in motion triple h and China being like, you know the headline act in the whole company really yes, yeah, sure, And so that that that teas again comes on June twenty eighth on Raw, and Austin says that he actually had signed himself to a new contract which gives him the ability to beat up Vince whenever he wants

to. Yes, and he knew this would come. He knew the day would come when the when the mcmans would try to take the power away from him or Vince would try to take this power away from him. Yeah, yep, And so kind of an anticipation of this, he books himself in a title match against the Undertaker. Where night was that night? It was that night? Yeah? Oh, same night? Yeah okay, yeah yeah yeah he yeah, He says, I get the title shot at that night

and then he wins back the belt. That's like the biggest rating robber did that night. Yes, when when Austin beats Undertaker for the title on the show, that's massive, like Russo would do that, man like him. Vince beating Triple H for the title on SmackDown Like to me, first and foremost, that was like Vince's feeling the pressure to do a massive SmackDown rating and he would fucking switch the world title on TV if he had to.

Oh yeah, that was that was kind of it, Like and listen, there was a there was an appeal to that, like there was absolutely the idea that you know, I do kind of like killing, like the world title could change hands on TV. I exactly, you know, like there was there was a sense of that. And and the first time that happened, the first time I ever felt like that, and I was like, holy shit, this happened on TV was when when Austin screwed Brett Hart out

of the title ninety seven. Yeah, totally, you know, And and that was that was kind of like there was just a there wasn't unpredictability, like you you know, you weren't you weren't conditioned to know that it's not it's on TV, it's not going to happen like you were like, you know what I don't think it'll happen, but man, it really could happen. Yeah, it was I never know. These guys were suddenly less in

control of their destiny. They couldn't have the secure life knowing we've only got to defend the title on big shows, like they could be mobilized into putting

it all on the line any given week. Yep, yep. And there was definitely power in that and that you know, that happened because it was so competitive between WWF and WCW to do big ratings, that that sid title win came because they changed their mind on how Wrestling of thirteen was going to come together and needed to do it on TV because there really wasn't chance to

build it as an interim change. But but we were the bet officiaries, you know, when they had those mid course corrections, they wanted to change things, they would just change the world title on TV. And it was fucking incredible. I mean, Goldberg Hogan, right, I mean, it's

not just a WBF we're talking about here. And as destructive as that may have been from a business perspective, in terms of how much more money could have made of Goldberg to throning Hogan if they planned on it, built to it, and didn't just use it to impress the the execs who came to the Georgia down for that show. In one last hurrah for WCW, one

last ratings victory. For all intents and purposes, they won one more time, but that was pretty much it. Still it doesn't It doesn't take away from the fact that Luger beating Hogan for the title in the August ninety seven Nitro yep, gives me life. It gives me life to do that occasionally. They haven't done that in years. I think the last time I did was I remember it was a raw in like December when Roman beat Triple H after spearing Vince off the apron they like put Vince in the angle and over

the top. Yes, I remember that. I remember that because he was, you know, he was just plateauing. Like people were just like, no, this is not the guy we are going to get behind as a superhero. It's not going to happen. And Vince stepped in there and did it again, got the guy over and I say it lasted. But on that night people going absolutely insane that Roman took the belt and they just haven't

really done it since anyway. Yep, this is an arrow that was very much up for grabs, and you tuned in every Monday Expectator, you know, with a twenty percent chance that the world title would change hands. Yeah, that's that's the truth. Like, you know, there was that possibility. There's something he said for that. When it comes as the product of disorganization, I'm not going to praise it, but when you're just watching,

it's fucking exciting. Yes, So, like you said that, this this landmark show ends up with Steve Austin hoisting the championship once again, and and then that was that was that, and then they go forward and then the First Blood Challenge comes for Fully Loaded, and then that's when Vincen's adds the stipulation that if Taker wins that match, Austin would never get another title shot. Yeah, and if Austin wins, McMahon would step away for good.

That's the way they put it, I think. And Austin wins the match, and Vince, i mean does Vince. Yeah, he pretty much disappears in television, right. Oh yeah, he's gone, he's gone, He's gone until until the until Triple H has the bell to and they do the whole gimmick of him uh coming, you know, get challenging for the belt. Yeah, what was what did he do? What? What in humanity did he That's a good question. I don't remember off the top of my head. It was to do with I mean, I think it was something

to do with the family. It definitely did. I don't remember it was just before before he was messing around with Stephanie though. Oh yeah, yeah, that didn't happen to like something about in November, perhaps Linda for sure, Linda was around. Yeah, so he's like, you know, this rogue element all of a sudden, like tempting Vince to come into his family. I remember Vince was a baby face here on Yes, Yeah, when he came back, it was like, all of a sudden, he was

this babyface. Yeah. And so it's clear that SummerSlam is going to be Triple HS night, or at least the idea is that this is going to be a breakthrough night for him. And you know, you're watching the television

and you're get the strong impression even though Austin has the strap. They get to the first raw of August nineteen ninety nine, when Austin tweaks his knee, according to a Mixed Week this book, and the knee injury throws into question a whole lot of things about SummerSlam, mostly you know, if they can count on on Steve to do a you know, a Summer Slam pay

per view quality match. People are kind of skeptical about whether that was Austin just you know, trying to take that injury and use it opportunistically to not have to switch the belt. He was not a big fan of Triple Ah. It's pretty clear now. Other words, the Rock by the way, Yeah and DX basically try to fuck with Rocky when he came up in ninety

six and ninety seven for no good reason. And so I think the tension can continues to this day between Rock and Triple H and unspoken tension and a competitiveness between the two that is sort of like, you know, who can edge their way into the screen for the big moments more right, and Rock kind of pretending that he's going to share the spotlight with Triple H, like that fake rod a Rowsey thing they did where they're going to do a tag

match, Oh yes, an angle yep, yep. Never quite ends up being Rock and Triple H face to face in the middle of the ring. Does it. No, not at all. Doesn't end up happening that way somehow, No, sorry, guys, and Triple H becomes chief treative Officer and COO or whatever, and here comes rock Board member, Thank you very much, fucking millions of dollars worth of stock over the top relationship with Nick

con that predates it. Amazing how this is all played out. But this is sort of the germantive stage of all that, and we're seeing more and more of Triple H, and it's clear that SummerSlam is going to be a big night for him. However it takes shape, Austin gets hurt. We also have mcfully inserted into the match out of pretty much nowhere for reasons it would become clear later. And there's also the Jesse ventory element, which I'm

sure we talked about. I'm a little foggy on SummerSlam ninety nine. Well, you know, I think it's very fitting that I was a third man in the ring. Well, I was the fourth man, but traditionally the third man in the ring. I'll be talking to you about this bigger party. We've got two parties in the ring that I want to be refereeing it. AM not so sure that sends the right message. I think, you

know, I think we're going to have more parties than that. I believe, you know, I don't believe in a two party system, right or two party man event for that better not in Minneapolis. You know we're talking about Hey, I you know I'm I'm the reform party. You know, I think we should reform SummerSlam. What do you say? Right? Well, I say, fine, what do we do? Okay, I guess we can reform it? But what do you what do you what do you what do you suggest? Jess what what? What bright idea do you have?

I think we need to have a third party in the match? In the match? Uh okay, So you're you're saying we need to have a triple threat match, is what you're saying? No no, no, no, no no no. I'm saying we need to have a third party match. I say, what would that be? The Robtarius primary? So can you can you can you explain how the Well there's a guy named Gary Johnson. Well let's start from the top. How are you feeling about politics these

days? Vinsick Man, Well, that's that'll that'll be mine pretty soon too, thank you. I mean we're talking about, you know, taxes, we're talking about lowering taxes for the ww superstars. Woll whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait wait a minute, wait a minute. Unforgiven ninety nine, what's the most likely thing that's going to be said? I vote? Jesse Ventura says, we're talking about taxes. Oh god, yeah, it makes

sense. So the notion is that's been talked about is that as a sitting governor of Minnesota, which of course Ventura was at the time, it wasn't great politics for him to stand in the middle of the ring and raise the hand of a heel triple ah to winning the World championship and you know, sort of standing by while a heel triumphs. That's one thread that people have suggested, I'm not sure ever confirmed, but strongly suggested, was at play

as to why suddenly mankind had to be added to the match. If you read fully second book, you also hear this thing of what what Ventura had cold feet about was not so much raising a heel's hand, but what he was worried about was what it would look like for him to get physically involved in a wrestling angle and a wrestling match as a governor that somehow doing this is one thing, but getting involved in like the hooplah of physicality is another

and perhaps a bridge too far for him politically. I don't get it, but he took a lot of heat doing this. I mean, he was a sitting governor. He's getting paid to show up in WWF. He's clearly using the prestige of the office here and getting this opportunity and getting paid for it. And it's in the state he governs in. It's all you know, you can really make hay out of it if you want to. Anyway, I'm going to use a WWE raw program as a platform to get over

some Minnesota's political ideal. Sure, no problem with that. I believe he suggested the Triple AHB managed not by China this night, but Norm Coleman. I think you know what I think is fair. I think it's fair for the losers to be to be of the triple threat match, to be managed by the guys that lost to me in the debates. In the debates, so they won. They let him in this debate, that's for sure.

You're damn right, And they won't let me in anymore. I'll tell you that whenever I run for president for vice president of the United States of America, they won't let me in the debates. They won't let me in the debates. Unbelievable, And so Foley says that once they get to the show, for some reason, Jesse gets like a fuck this attitude, I'll do whatever you want. If I'm going to take all kinds of heat for this anyway, which I try to avoid, then I might as well lead in

and have fun with it. And so by the time they get to SummerSlam, he's grabbing Shane McMahon by the scruff of his neck and launching him over the top rope. If you remember in that main event and getting involved in all kinds of ways that it sounded like he was sort of shy about it

initially. And so the Ventura thing is a big factor, although it's hard to tell exactly how much weight to give it and why we didn't get Austin Triple H one on one with Triple H going over at SummerSlam and instead Mankind getting plugged in and getting his hand raised. Now, all that is to say that Triple H had set in motion, a series of hints on television

that he was quickly going to become the guy. Do you remember the aforementioned sit down interview with Jim Ross. It's just the same thing they did with when Mankind became the breakthrough. Start with JR. Sitting down and no, I don't remember that at all. This is where he first says the game. I'm pretty sure he's sitting there with his black leather Caangle hat on backwards. That was a wonderful time to be watching Triple H. That hat was such a good idea. And here he is, right. I don't need

anybody else, JR. This is about me. I don't need to be in a Click anymore. I don't need to be in DX anymore. This is about me. It's about me reaching my goals. You know. And while we're at it, this goes back a long way, Jar. This goes back to the Click. This goes back to Madison Square Garden, me walking in the ring and saying goodbye to my friends four years ago. You're damn right. It's four years ago, and every day it's eating a hole

in my stomach, Jar, every single day. What your language? What you want me to shoot? With his interview. I'm gonna shoot with I'm gonna tell you how I feel, whether you like it or not. It's about four years ago Madison Square Garden. I walked to the ring to say goodbye to my friend Scott Hall Sean Michaels, who got punished for that jar. You know why, because you don't have nobody in the office had that to do it to anybody else. They did it to me. Why because

I was the easy one. I was the one that would take it. Good old Triple Ace. He'll rise to the occasion later on. Don't worry about it. He'll come through. We can take care of that. Now, punish him, get rid of that. He'll come back later. Well, you know what, that makes me sick in my stomach every time I look at you guys. It makes me sick to think what you did to me holding me back. You guys talk about being students of the game.

I am the game Jr. There is nobody that eats, sleeps, or breathes this business more than me. And now it's my time to prove that to the world. SummerSlam is my time to take what is mine, and that is becoming the WWF champion. I think it's his time. Uh well, maybe let me check my check. Is this on? Better hit me with that triple H? Hit me, hit me a little bit of that triple H. You better keep the music playing, mister Dunn. A,

he's a character that's striking out against the behind the scenes producers. Okay, so but but here's the thing. So all right, so we're supposed to then, okay, So this is what I hate about, Like, yes, there is an element of of of you know, you know, behind the scenes shit that I would get a kick out of. But here's what I don't understand. So he's saying that he was punished. First of all, the Madison Square Guarden incident was three years prior, ninety six, ninety

five, and so he says he was punished. And what I don't understand is what was he being sure, So how was he punished? Like, I know how he was punished, but what is he saying he was punished for? Like if it's if it's now because wrestling is fake and everything is phony, you were punished by not winning King of the Ring. Uh huh. But if we're not going that far in pulling back the curtain, right,

how were you punished? Exactly? Well, right exactly if if you can be if it's all so phony that you you can't win King of the Ring because a booker decided you're not going to win King of the Ring, then how are we supposed to see you winning the title as now suddenly of your making? Right now? How are you the game now? Like I don't understand, how are you know? I think it's sort of like,

you know, like you said, I was the whipping boy. I was the least risk to piss off and be able to demonstrate to the locker room that someone paid a price for this, so don't try it yourselves. But at the same time, when you when you when you see me in that position in the political realm, you never would have expected that I could navigate my way into becoming WWF champion and the top guy in the company. Yet because of my guile here I am, you know, And I think that

that's what he's trying to say. But it is kind of like I think they assume people knew more about the click stuff and gave a shit more about the click stuff than they really did in nineteen ninety nine. I think anyone

cares that he was punished. Nobody fucking one cared about it. Everyone, man, everyone thinks the click is you know, they all think the click was such a bigger deal than it actually was in terms of the story for people on Arammy Jerris is for your More importantly, WWF completely rejiggered everything to

amazing returns. Like the whole, the whole calling card of the WWF changed from that time period so drastically that it's so strange to call back to that, you know, I mean, and also to it figured it out. It doesn't mean anything anymore because look, look what happened. The company rebounded. It wasn't right partly because of you. It's like partly because of this

fucking guy. And it's like, and you're harping on that shit when you know you got to go and goof off with your best friend for for a while and uh and you know, talk about penises and shit, sure did, sure did. And so August twenty second, ninety nine, SummerSlam Mankind beats Steve Austin and Triple A to the triple Threat match just even tour raises his hand new champion. Next night, August twenty third, nineteen ninety nine for the very first time, Triple H becomes WWF champions. In so many

ways, the company would never be the same. The Rock, he's a cold king the rock. Is it rocked? Jack Kid? What a shame? Man Kind's own as well. Referee pulled down? All right, say just just cold cock the referee. Triple X now bag kind of the right, Peder, great time, put a great time. He got it Triple X with a pedigree. This is a label. Willet Bay, Willing Bay. Yeah, triple es. But Dolly and Kennedy us funnel finalay from here

right here, check please trample. Finally it's happened, Michael Cock. Why did that this happen? Yes, Triplex has realized the dream. It's all about Triple H. He is now nowhere restate Federation Chapions. Tripple just brought off ship last night. He entered Jim Ross tonight he destroyed man kind of a run and he's won the dule WFT Championship. Crimple HS realizing a career. Thirl. I gotta tell you he's focus on for months. Hey month,

I hopeusly Federation. I am somewhere fresh unbelievable triple then you we're running by marriage and Chicken. Here's what happened at the end of the match up. It was shaved with a chair, but that triple Claire knocking out that tie what's that from the rock and that triple A juice the pedigrade. Shay's a bad half with my way. That's triple Ah. Realize he's this goal. I'm winning the Dumpy Dums title. It's his time now, it's trimple ages tie y. I don't think make said that enough. I wasn't sure

whose time it was. The talk about driving it home. Huh Jesus Christ. They just like took the original SummerSlam closing script and just used it the next night. Right, of course, he noted rock out with a chair who was commentating, and then he knocked out fully with the chair and pined him with the pedigree and that was it. And earlier in the show, as they referenced that, I do remember, I do remember, thinking, you know, the way that they had built up triple Ah. I do.

I do remember now because it's funny. I don't remember exactly what happened on television, but I do remember that when Summer Sound came about, I didn't I didn't watch it. I didn't watch it, but I was like, oh, I bet Triple Ah is gonna win the championship tonight. And then the next day I remember being shocked that it was fully yeah, totally,

utterly shocked that it was fully totally. The only reason I would be shocked is if you were like, win a minute, there's really no other reason for him to suddenly be added to this match than for that express purpose. I didn't really I didn't that that didn't even yeah, I didn't even click in my forehead. I just thought, you know, they weren't a triple threat matches back then. It was a big truth. You know, that's true too. They were very in triple threat matches and adding that that

extra element. I never really like. I like triple threat matches. They're fine, but to me, they they they don't add anything and they take away Oh yeah, definitely, you know, like the one on one you know, showdown is always what's money totally and they knew that. Yeah,

I think that's probably part of what they're signaling here. Even though they would overdo triple threat matches on the B shows, I feel like when it came time for Big Four they're a little more disciplined about that even in this era, not all the time, but when it was a triple threat, you look and you realize why. It's like okay, because this guy can't look rise and they want to get out of it, right, So, yeah,

Triple H is now the champ and they're driving them that messaging. It was referenced there in the commentary that at the beginning of that edition of Raw, Triple H took Jim Ross in the middle of the ring and put him in like a key lock and like a hammer lock, and he's gonna break his arm unless he got a title shot, remember that. Yeah, And then he snaps and they actually played like the sound of like celery cracking and put him a prosthetic arm in Jim Ross's sleeve to make a look at his

arm was hanging there. And so Jo leaves the commentary position. And that's why Michael Cole is the voice of that moment, because Triple H takes him out at the beginning of that Raw and then of course, you know, and symbolically taking out the number one Steve Boston cheerleader too, because he would make reference on promos Steve Austin's your boy, right, it's about your boy,

It's about support. It's like, right, the fuck what wrestling fan watching TV back then wants to see Jim Ross as an executive instead of an announcer who wants to think of him as someone dictating the futures of you know, the wrestlers from like an executive president of talent relations standpoint. But that was it was all his playbook, you know. It's like, yeah,

you know, everyone's out to hold me down. I'm looking around Trips, and it seems like you're the only one that I'm not holding I know, it seems you seem you seem to be doing fine on your own, pal, Like, I don't you know, nobody's holding you down as a regards SummerSlam. You know, it's it's not Austin. I don't think he's ever talked about it. I've never seen Steve Austin address like whether he was comfortable

putting over Triple Late or not. And I'm saying this with the hope, if not the expectation, that a member of the Solar System will remember something and dig it up, because I know they've done interviews, they've done podcasts together, and stuff, But I can never see like a very sharp point of Austin explaining, no, I didn't want to lose to Triple H at SummerSlam, but you wouldn't anyway, right, he'd make up other reasons to have to say that expressly. Although I don't know he might. He might

he might actually say that if he now you know, he might. Yeah, he might say that now and say like, yeah, you know, I just didn't think it was right. It was the right time for me to you know, a job a triple H. Yeah, did think he was ready and he wasn't. He wasn't. But the thing about being you're not ready to fucking get the belt, you know for the most part, I mean you don't know. You don't know till they walk out with the

belt, if they're if they're if they're really championship material or not. You always have to take that plunge. There's always an element of like, okay, we're not quite ready for this, but here here goes nothing. So they're Triple H. And I think the closest we might get to sort of like you know, something we can read between the lines and say, okay, this pretty much was the prevailing mood amongst the players at the time was from a dvdww came out with like Kingdom Come. It was like a triple

H career Retrost. Oh yeah, sure, yeah, I think I saw that one. It was pretty good. And they did, of course, a documentary in his life and everything, starting when he was, you know, a teen bodybuilder in Nashua with just an unbelievable amount of space between his eyes. Unbelieved, so true, you go to Nashville High I'm almost positive

he did. Yeah, that's fucking crazy. He was like mister Nashua te teen, New Hampshire whatever he was, and then got into you know, met Ted or CD, the former WWF bodybuilder type of the eighties, and got introduced to Qualsky's wrestling school, went to ww and from there to WWF And here he is on that documentary on that DVD talking about SummerSlam ninety nine

and what the what the political chess pieces were going into SummerSlam. The plan was for me to become champion in SummerSlam, and I had been talked about for months. It went from being me and Steve in a single of SummerSlam to Austin having you know, he hurt his knee, and Steve felt that it would be easier to have a triple threat. I'll have to be honest, I didn't ask any questions. Seemed a little odd to me, and

Nick was added to the fold. Then Steve, you know, said I'll drop the title to Mick, and uh, you know, you could take it the next night on Raw. It would have meant more for him to have won that that that first ww championship at Summer Slam, as opposed to winning it from mankind at Raw. You know, it was what it was, and I took it the next night on Raw, and at the end of the day more people saw it, I guess, and and it is what it is. All worked out great, right, I mean here we

are. Yeah, very convincing. Yeah right, very convincing tone in your voice there, Oh god, An any any small wonder that Austin and Trips couldn't come to terms on a Wrestling NI forty appearance, Yeah right, how about it? But yeah, there, you know, there it is.

He straight up says it was Tom tad the title one on one and that Austin sort of said it'd be easier to have a triple threat match because of his knee, which I can you know, you can make that case like you know, Austin I mean fully can bump around, which he did a lot in the match. Yeah, because you know, one thing Austin will, just as we've learned over the years, he'll completely fall apart mentally if he feels like he has to do like a thirty minute pay per view main

eventity he doesn't feel physically up to it, right of course. But uh, that's that's I think probably the closest we're going to get to honesty on

this whole thing. But fortunately Billy Gunn did a shoot interview from the Ole Boy where I think he be much starker perspective because let's you know, New Age out Laws wrestle edgend Christian on the show is mentioned it's a half Hazard tag title match put together in the Sunday Night Heat before the pay per view, and the fact that the New Age out Laws reunited by the fall of

nineteen ninety nine. I don't know about you, but that also to me was a very key like, Okay, this attitude era of things kind of over because they're going back to stuff. They're going back to stuff like yep, you know, a Gun and road Dog were not able to achieve single superstardom. The sensible thing to do was literally just to put them back together again without really any purpose. They just were back, and I remember they beat Rock and no it was was mankind of al snow filling in for Rock.

And remember that, Yes, I do the Rock and SOT connection. You know, this is your life Rock moment. That's actually that, this is your life segment, the famous twenty five minute talking segment. That is an incredible quarter. That's the raw after unforgiven, the very night after this that get out of here. Really, that's right, were Rock and fully go face to face and you know, gimmick characters from Rock's past and it's hilarious, but it goes so long and and it's lettender in its own right.

But anyway, you know, Billy Gunn was somebody who kind of kind of got the raw end of Triple H's ascent because he's a guy that was trying to break out on his own outside of the Triple HDX gimmick. And you know, the nuige out was being primarily associated with DX and yeah, all the opportunities that afforded to somebody that it appeared they were trying to give a push to Now. He does say is that he was not originally scheduled to win the nineteen ninety nine King of the Ring. He's not sure who

it was supposed to be. He kind of throws xpox name out there, but that doesn't sound right, not at all. But he did get the distinct impression that he only won King of the Ring as a consolation because somebody else wouldn't do it. Therefore their heart wasn't in it. And there was really no attempt to make it seem like a big deal that mister asked one King of the Ring, which it was true when you look back. There was no like ceremony, There was no pomping circumstance, there was no build.

It was like we had been trained to think King of the Ring winners would come off as a bigger deal in years before this. Now Shamrock in ninety eight, it wasn't a huge deal. But at least he you know, he campaigned for the icy title. He went on a run after he won King of the Ring. Billy got nuts so much. I mean, they gave him the Rock match at SummerSlam, where he was just totally sunned just totally made fun of right, had no fucking credibility at all. Didn

him come close to winning key matches after that? And the reason I bring him up is because he gives us a perspective on what actually Triple H was doing throughout nineteen ninety nine to put him into this position and beyond and beyond nineteen ninety nine. But I just I can't let we cannot forget, you cannot forget what it really means when Triple H says he is the game, what it really is is about, yes, And here he is kind of

holding court on it all. At what point could you see Hunter start coming on influenced politically kind of after the after the kind of split of the X and stuff, kind of getting away from that he was, you know, started becoming more malvie and getting hired in position to where he had stroke and once he knew he had it, he grabbed it. How did you see

him change? Like exactly as far as how did he change? How start talking about people and start you know sticking, start sticking and stabbing, sticking his stabbing remember never in your face, but you knew it was there, right, you know, always like that in front of you. But what a piece of shit you were bhying, you know, buying closed doors with Vince and straight up Vince's ass all the time. Him and China got the you know, did the split off, and we would talk. Not that

I asked her anything. She just came to me one day and said, you know, it's him. He's the one that's put the brakes on you every time they try to do something with you, because they said you can't tote it, you can't do it, and because he said that you're you know, you're breathing is a problem. Your asthma is a problem. And I've worked hurt and sick in that company more than I care to remember, you know, only because not that I needed to. It's because they booked

me and I'll go, you know. So it's just it's the constant bullshit. Stab on your back, smile at me and say hello to me, and come on, let's do this, and you're this, and then you turn around and it's you know, just stabbing, stabbing, stabbing, And why I'm not a thread. He just saw me as a threat. I guess why. I have no idea because just like I said before, he's talented and can worry. Why do guys just not let that speak for you.

You either got it or you don't got it, you know, and he has it, but it's something that makes you feel better about yourself. Is to put somebody down, is to make somebody because no, he's really not that good. No, don't say that he's really not that good. Well, yeah he is, he is, but it's you know, so people can't hear that. They don't want to hear that. No, I don't want to hear that he's good, you know, but he is, and he can't stand that. And he lives and breathe wrestling, and everybody

that's in the company should live and breathe wrestling. If he said that one more time, I was gonna slap him in the mouth because it's yeah, I have kids, I have a family. This is not this is what I do for a job. And yes, I do take this very seriously. But I don't eat, breathe, and live this because I have two kids that I eat, live and breathe for. You know, because you don't have that, you think that I should take this and just you know,

my kids need something. No, I have to do this for job first, Hey, hell, hell no, you know no, and that's just what he does to everybody. Is you need to you know do that? You know this business is there, he's the god of wrestling. No, he's not. Wow, I mean wow, what do you want? I mean, look, I'm let me guess right, he's full of shit and he was never any good and no. Yeah right, how about he's

telling the exact truth. Yep? How about that better? How about there's a reason that when d X got inducted in the Hall of Fame and you know, word was out the Billy Gun was going to work for a w the Triple H couldn't help but slip that little line in there about how he's going walk in the minor leagues. Yeah, how about you know the Billy

was like unceremondously fire from a training job for a high testosterone level. Dude, it like getting involve from the bodybuild contest when like nobody else suffered the same fate for similar circumstances. Billy Gun is the truth on this one. That's what idea is. I'll take it. I'll take that. And also just the the amount of animosity coming from his mouth, like just it reeks of something. I mean, is he completely honest? You never know with

you know, with these fucking clowns and carnies. But I'll tell you that's the case out very convincing. I'll say that road Dog was in that camp too. There's a shoot interview that they did shortly after watching out at WWF or road Dog is equally as hard on Triple H. Although really, Billy Gunn, you know they're both in the interview, goes a little crazier about

it. What's in prodding. It's not like he's out there swinging trying to make a name for himself shitting on Triple H. That's what I love about these shooting in reviews. These guys did these thinking only hardcore fans would buy and sell these DVDs. They would never see it on YouTube. Everyone you know this wouldn't. These interviews were not done with the express purpose of creating a headline because the e consistan didn't really work that way at the time.

I mean, people would hear about it and write about it in the sheets, but it wasn't quite the same as like a YouTube link that would be shared around the world in twenty seven seconds. That changes that your motivation for saying something at that point and changed your motivation for telling the truth, you know. But here he is saying these things and coming out swinging and Boss, all I have to ask you to do is think of Triple H's face

right now. I'm not talking about Mandy Patinkin. I'm talking about Triple H's pictureous, Yes, and think about does that face look like somebody that would give you the God God of your face about how everything's everything's looking great. And then when you leave the room talks about you, does he does he look like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally totally trust Yes, absolutely, he's he's gonna he is going to be behind your back faster than

you can fucking take a breath. I'd love it so much. And that's what he means by the game. That's what this whole thing was about in nineteen ninety nine, because again, it's this fucking insider term like talking about behind the scenes shit. Essentially. Yeah, even if he would have an alternate definition if asked at the time what he meant by it, I think the subtext is there. It's something that everyone in the business, no matter how inside or outsider they are, can come up with it with a with

their own definition enough, and he's he's cognizant of that. He's not, you know, running away from that or insisting on a particular narrow definition of what he means by that. It's all about this behind the scenes stuff like we just talked about with the click angle and all that, or the click situation. You even call it an angle. So that's what's going on. I mean, he's basically found a way to get Vince's ear by ninety nine, and he wants to not only have Vince's ear, he wants to basically

be in a position. He wants to be the guy that Vince turns to to say is this guy worth pushing or not? What do you think you think? What do you think? Do you think this guy's on? He's no that that that bit Billy said about asthma. I guess he has like a winter asthma situation where he gets gets gassed in matches. That's all you need pounds on that. I mean, I'm I mean, what do you I mean you think you think game game? Do you think you think Billy

can go? I mean, he's he's the one, and you know what we're talking. I mean, we're talking about a guy who arguably is the best pure athlete in the company. What do you think, thoughts game, billy gun? And then you know, any little thing, any little thing he can say, so so he's good. Wait a minute, he's good A hang nail? You say that he's got a kind of an ongoing hangnail on his left thumb ongoing. Tell me the difference between the hangnail and an

ongoing hangnail, hang nail, Adam Paige? So I guess all right, so the hangnails and no go I see, yeah, it could it could get in somebody's eye. I suppose. All right, so billy guns out fired? You think, okay, all right, we'll fire billy gun today. All right? Uh, who's going to get on that? Matterson? You do down for that? Fire a billy gun? And what about what about uh game undertaker? Thoughts on Undertaker? I mean, legend, been here you know about ten years, just one of the one of the all

time grades. What do you you think what I saw him get tired? Once you saw he was a little slow. No, he got he got run over by his motorcycle. Tired, he was tired. Wait, what do you mean by tire? Oh he gets victimized by a tire. Victimized by a tire? I see, I see? And now now would that be his vest? Is when? Now? Okay, so we're talking about is that we're talking about the the goth clothing? Is that what it is? Or what? Now? The biker out? The biker? Okay?

So uh okay, all right? So he he and so I'm just saying we can't hitch our wagon into a talent. He once had a bone crunching action figure come out and he's wearing jeans, right, okay, jeans? So what do you think we should do with Listen, I'll do whatever you need me to do with Undertaker? So what do you what do you fired? Okay? I think actually we put into death honestly, I have to be all right. So how about Kurt Angle? No? How about Jeff

already know? How about urdd No? How about book or t know who else isn't how about we're looking at this guy brock Lessner, very legitimate athlete. What do you think got to create a different If you're going, can we can we can we bring back Austin? Can we do that? Maybe? But I got to beat him in a stage two or three. Hell in the selma how much I can't WrestleMania, and then I have to join up with him immediately afterwards, so he's gonna come back, then I have

to be share the screen with him. I can't be you know, you can't be in there in a circumstance where people are deciding which of the two is better. I'm not probably the best to get the past boss A lot of the contradictory on a gimmicks, but I'm trying to do. Don't worry about listen convictory. That's fine. We can get out of that, all right. So you're gonna I got twenty four page here? Oh right, okay, so uh good? How long you I tell you what, Paul?

Why don't you just tell me who to push? And why don't you I'll tell you what. This will make it easier. Why don't you talk to Patterson about this? And you and Patterson decide who we push, who's champion the whole thing. I'm just gonna you know, I've got I could no matter how long you sit here, pat I could never I could never see the things you've seen. I could never get the full roster of who

has asthma problems. You know, I don't. I don't. I don't like to get involved in the business of others, So why don't you guys. I'm gonna you know what I'm gonna do. I'm actually gonna call the Saudi's see if they're willing to buy the company. That's right, you guys, do this. I'm gonna go, and then in about a decade and a half you can try to convince the Crown Prince of who's worth putting over. So Triple H came out with a book. Now, of course it's

half workout routine. Oh it's so fucking the worst book ever. I mean, it's like you're reading about his career and it's interesting and then all of a sudden you need to countenance fifteen pages and try to build your lats. It's so the quads and triceps. But he does talk about this time period, and I think it takes us to a very interesting place because this this stroke that Billy Gunn described Triple HM massing at this point in time post d X. Does it? Does it give you? It? Does it?

Isn't it funny? Too? Does it? Does it? Really? It's so very easily paints the picture that number one, Triple H's story is not that interesting behind the scenes, and the fact that whatever is interesting he probably can't talk about as much because he manipulated so much that he has to that that it really is only half a book and he has to do the other

half with the fucking workout. Yeah, regimen, Like what is it a typical thing where like these guys convince themselves that their books have a market beyond the wrestling fan and you have to sit here and read JBL talk about stocks and Caine talk about politics and him talk about working out, Triple H about working out. It's like, fucking hell cares, free me from the fucking we can talk about the stabbing behind the fucking scenes and shit like that's where

we want JR. Talking about recipes h interspersed with stories on the road. It's like, who's shit new here? Guys, Seriously, just write the fucking book, talk shit. Read hardcore Holly's book exactly, Like there's not a fucking uh uh you know template out there entertain me, you bitches. So Triple H winning the championship is obviously every wrestler's ultimate dream. So when

I achieved it, I was ecstatic. It was such an honor for me, not only because I had this championship, this tangible reminder that I accomplished a major goal, but I was humbled by what it meant. The company didn't put the title on me just to transition it to someone else. They wanted me to have a long term run with the championship. By making this decision, they were recognizing me as a top guy, a guy who would serve as the face of the company, represent us to the public. That's

all part of what being the w Champion means. Uh. I don't recall that at all. It's not what it meant in nineteen ninety nine. I'm sorry. No, four hours certainly, not this fucking right, this fucking run right here. Maybe maybe you were the face of the company and in two thousand, but not here. Dude. You even have the belt by November? Right, Yeah? What kind of How many Today shows could he do between September? Well, it is on every day. You know.

It's a good point. It's more than just defending the title once a week on TV. And to trust this responsibility to somebody who was a bad guy in the program, well that just wasn't really done. Yeah, it wasn't done that either, by the way. It was done to his credit in

two thousand and two. But that was just disasters disastrous. I mean, it was just so fucking unbelievable that they thought the most compelling thing they could put forward for eighteen months was who was going to to throne Triple h Like he's Rick flatting. It's like, it's just like, what is this going to end? Yeah? Some keep on what's that? It's not gonna end. It's never gonna end. A Goldberg, by the way, another guy you can put in the shit list who isn't ready? Yeah, it doesn't

of course. Whatever. Of course some people in the office resisted the idea, but fortunately they were in the minority. Mm hmmm, with all my enemies on the show gunning for me. Once I had the title, I lost it along the way and started up an angle. Were Vince McMahon to get it back by the way the angle though, by the way, just to clarify, I did look it up a little bit, and oh goody,

I guess. So what happened was the episode of Raw was September thirteenth, I'm many nine, and what happened was I guess Austin was arrested on TV again and Triple H wanted Linda McMahon to cancel Austin's title match with Triple H. I guess there was a rematch in there, and he apparently was very verbally abusive to Linda. Yeah, And and so Vince comes out and

rationalizes being on TV by saying it wasn't business, it was personal. And I remember, this is fascinating because behind the scenes, he's still you know, he's still dating China. There's no real public face indication that he's interested in Stephanie. So it's exactly accurate to say that he won Vince's trust in

one spot in the inner circle after linking up with Stephanie. It seems like it happened first because you know, Stephanie describes Triple H coming into a meeting chewing gum, is sitting back at the meeting, you know, the production meeting with his input, and it made it essentially, it made her wet, It made her sopping wet. You know, what are we gonna do? Right? We got to think about what's the next step with the company. You know, I love Steve like everybody else. This company needs to

go, but we get to figure out where are we going next? Ste no beard either, no beard yet, no beard yet either, you know, just you know, just imagine fucking clean shaven knows out the fucking wazoo, ponytail tied. Yes, yes, yes, and he's wearing the fucking the fucking Cabby hat backwards. Yeah. I'm just you know, I'm just concerned. You know what, you know, what is the next step that the company. We can't we can't ride on the coattails of somebody else besides

me. We don't want to get a guy. If you're gonna write in your book with all my enemies on the show gunning for me, once I had the title enemies, what about the enemies behind the scenes. That's the fucking rule. Name the enemies or don't make reference in the end at all. Name the enemies. I'm not gonna play their games by naming them. Okay, I'm not going to give them that power, right story, I'm gonna sit here and tell you I am the game. Yeah. Great.

The storyline, he writes, was that as the good guy owner, Vince hated it that such an evil son of a bitch was his champion and is the evil son of a bitch. I hated it that Vince was a good guy owner. We went at it for weeks, tearing up every crowd we went in front of. At the same time, Vince's daughter, Stephanie was

involved in a major angle in the program as well. Vince Russo had this idea to put on a wedding, so they started a story the line where one of the superstars, Tests would get romantically involved with Stephanie, eventually asking her to marry him. Well, you know, you remember, you remember what it was, right? It was. It was a stipulation of of a of a match that the Union won. The Union won won a match

or a series of matches. I don't remember what the deal was, but if they won, they could have a match with any member of the corporation. They wanted any kind of match with anyone. So Test Test decided he wanted to have a match with Stephanie and the match was a date, a date between the two. Yeah, uh huh, yeah, and that's and that's that's good writing. Russo was preoccupied with the Unions. Back then you had the Union stable and then you had the referee Tran. Yeah, but

I think we better have a union. You know what, that's not a bad idea. I was talking to Vince Russo. I said, Hey, you know what, maybe if you did a uh maybe, if you did a storyline about unions, Vince might uh might decide to give the boys a chance. Wasn't too long ago that that I was agitating for a union here? But you know what, I got my union, right? I got well union? Would that be Jesse the shag after union? Big fan? I got my union. I can tell you won't hear about it from me

anymore. I got my union. This lapsed, Vince said, And Philly, why does the Rock not see these professional wrestlers as he loves to call them, at the same set benefits he enjoys exactly? I had a question someone might ask him one of these days. With the wedding announced in weeks away, Russo left for w CW Triple A Trites, and no one knew his exact plan to finish off the wedding, and first of all, Vince

Russo didn't know his plan. By the yeah right and transition Steph and test as a married couple into the endo the show, the whole thing was up in the air for a while with such a major part of our programming, so just dropping it without an explanation was not an option. They went so far as to come up with little swerves in the story to postpone the on screen nuptials while they figured out an ending satisfying enough to the story. Entire

storyline, there was this one thing that break her. Steph got amnesia after she was hitting the head with a garbage can. She couldn't remember who test was for a few shows. I remember that. Yeah, you're like, yeah, couching the Yeah, they were about to do the thing, and then all of a sudden, like she can't remember who the fuck she's dating anymore. It's interesting to think of that as he's describing it, it's like

just delay tactics. I guess gues it makes sense. But that's another example of Russo leaving and them trying to like kind of keep a Russo feel about the product without having for sure. I mean that's the actually, I mean that was it felt. It felt Russo all the way, right. You know, it was surprising that it was not that it was not Russo, and it was hard. I suppose back then you weren't reading the internet to know that Russo had left or even maybe even not. I had no fucking

idea. I don't even know. Yeah, I didn't know who. I don't think I knew Vince Russo was writing the show, though I seem to know that Vince Russo was Vic Venom. Oh sure I did know that for

some reason. But I remember I was following, you know, the internet closely every day back then, and I remember feeling it like I remember being watching closely and be like, Okay, this is different, Like I can tell that the the route and the kernel of the idea is still a Russou idea, but the execution is starting to feel a lot more sort of like just blah. I'm not saying every time Russo did something it was it was exciting, but it just wasn't the pace was so different all of a sudden

and dragging me out. The Nuptials is a great example. You wouldn't see that with him, Like, no, the Nuptials literally the next week, like they did with fucking Bully and Brook and TNA. It was like, yeah, they built that for like two weeks. That could have been they could have built that for six months and then a massive rating, But it was no, we came up with a wedding because we need a big rating, right We didn't come up with the wedding and then try to decide how

to make it a big rating. We came up because we need to fill a hole right here. We need to make something impactful at them on this date. And so anyway, she couldn't remember who test was for a few shows, so he had to work to convince her that they were about to be married. This trick bought a lot of time, with hundreds of suggestions

coming in from every possible source, but none receiving overwhelming support. The creative team decided to just move ahead with a regular wedding and play out their marriage for a little bit until something could be figured out for the long term. You have to understand that at this time, pretty much everyone in the company was working on this issue. It was on everybody's mind. What do we

do about with the wedding? Someone sent to me backstage at one of the shows they should have this crazy swerve where she ends up admitting she's in love with someone else and marries him or something. I thought, you know, that's not a bad idea. Two weeks before the wedding was scheduled to finally take place. For plate rights, it should be me who marries her? Oh unbelievab Okay, any for your reason? Why that? Uh? Why it should be you? Game? I mean, you haven't really been a

part of this story at all. What is it? Well? Uh, I think it could be a good swerve, and you know what might be even a better swerve? What's that? No payoff with tests? Right? Okay? Oh? You? I mean so what you what do you what do you propose to use some other kind of stereoids? Are you gonna go

you know, kind of like an organic or what? H what triple h g H. We're gonna triple h g A. We could do we can develop that in the basement, you know, we could do it a w W triple h g H if you you know a model, whatever you need, man, you describe the look. And I'm sitting in a production meeting at five o'clock on TV day, pretending he doesn't really clear that, pretending to be a fly on the wall, Pretending like you know, he's just here to to hear ideas and see if he can be helpful, but deep

down being just a complete ball of insecure. Imagine like like sitting sitting in Vince's office, just like we're pretending like they're casually chatting, snapping gum. Yeah. Yeah, it's got his fucking feet on the desk with jeans and black boots. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, a jacket. Oh fuck, I can't. So you know, actually I was going, yeah, that was crazy. I see that last week. That was unbelieving. Yeah, that was yeah crazy. You see the Yukon game on Saturday,

unbelievable? Uh I did? I watched Yukon? Did I watched Ucon all night long? It's crazy, you know. By the way, I want to turn you on, Vince to this sum this new protein brand I found. I think I didn't really help your brats and delts and is it? Is it an Ica proah something like that? Yeah yeah all right right, so yeah, I'll send you information about it. Yeah all right, listen, I'm always I'm always in the market. So I listen. The reason

I stopped in, I know you had a lot to do that. I was just thinking about this wedding thing, you know, I thought how it would help here. Yeah listen, you know that's the thing. We don't know, We don't know what the fuck to do. Let's just make it about me instead of Test, And well I will have no I'll wrestle Test, but it'll be on like TV. It won't be a big match. But wait a minute, but hold on, sorry, m Well we're talking

the whole thing. We've been building this whole thing up with Test and stuff getting together. So a test events between you and me. Test has he has little bowel syndrome, he has IBS, and I don't hope we should be putting someone in that position that might have to take a ship at any moment. Oh yeah, between you and me. I know it's hip and stuff. No, listen, listen, you know these I guess there's a test indeed, right, and I'm this is this is a test? I

am all right? Well, so well what do you think I say? What we do is put the uh incontinent Soul title on him? What excuse me? The what are you saying? Wait? Wit, hold on, hold on, wait, and we could go with this actually, so you're saying he has uncontrollable dookie essentially, yes, so like he could just go in the middle of the ring, right, So he's always in a rush

to finish the match because he's gonna ship himself. I think that's a better I think that's a better positioning for Andrew than what we have right now with him sort of like front and center, you know. I mean, I think you should be a wrestled with his pants at any moment instead of a wrestler that marries your daughter. I mean, that could be, that could be, that could that could be funny. That'll be funny, comedic comedic

value going on with that one. And can you do me a favor, Evince, can you have someone kind of secretly record the look on his face when he's the direction? I'd love to just well, I mean I don't want to. I don't want to deviolate anyone surreptitiously. I'll show you how to do it. I do it all the time back here. Okay, all right, well that's great. Let's let's uh, let's do it. Let's do it. Let's let's uh. Test is out. You know what, the test has failed. He's tested out of the program. He's tested

out. All right, we're gonna go with A with A with a new direction, the triple H direct. Let me ask you, pal, I mean, in concert with this, should we should we consider doing anything for his family? I mean, you know, should What do you mean? What does he say? I was wondering, Do you listen, I'm all about messing fucking with people. Do you think we could do something to his family as well? I think we could maybe test his family, so say, put them to the test, maybe hurt them, oh shit, physically,

mentally, sexually harm. I'm into that as a rib. Of course, all the band is off, I'm into that as a rib. So all of a sudden, what do you know, Triple he told me the one to marry Stephanie. Did the chicken or the egg come first? That's my question, and Triple H decide. My God, this is my chance to insinuate myself into this angle that's going nowhere between Test and Stephanie. And therefore, wouldn't it be all the sweeter if I made a move on her

and got her going and actually linked up with her in real life? Or were they already romantically involved? And that is why he suggested inserting himself. I know they've told the story of her times. I know Vince has said that he saw that there was something between them before they even realized that. I just I wasn't a fan, you know, I didn't appreciate this happening. And I said no, no, no, no, no means no, get your right what And so eventually they get to a point where,

you know, everyone, everyone knows that they're linked backstage. But this is all I mean, if I'm doing the math, right, this is all while he's still involved in China. Yeah, rightly on t That's what they've always said, is that they're uh yeah, it's always been the two of them, that this was a whole, a whole fucking thing like that that they were doesn't And she says that too, didn't. She said China that she was that game was cheating on her. Essentially, Yeah, yeah,

that this was happening. She found a messages or notes or something like that, because confessions of love for each other. And what had Billy Gounn just say in that clip we played that after it broke off between China Triple H, that's when he found out from China directly, who was very much you know, attached to the hYP to Triple A. They work out together.

Obviously they were ro mantically involved every every trick Triple H pulled to be in the position he's in an unforgiven nineteen ninety nine, China was party too,

and in fact sort of absorbed his personality. You know, everyone said a lot of people have said that she became equally difficult to deal with in a way that was almost false, in a way where it's almost like she was putting on an act thinking that's how she should carry herself if she was going to be you know, China at the right hand of Triple H as he ascended the political ladder, and so now all of a sudden, she's on the outs and he's in with Steph and she's going to Billy Gott and all

these other people saying things like you don't pretty much remember that push that disappeared into thin air last year. That was him just so you know, saying a B and C to people, including Finnce. Just tremendous stuff and just an amazing saga of that. Yeah, we'll never be told. I don't think it's most truthful. No, no, I was like maybe a product divorced. But then Stephanie comes out of Mainy. It's like, Okay,

he's locked that down to Yeah, yeah, has China's gone? Right, China's dead, you know, not that she was necessarily trustworthy anyway, Towards the end she said her truth on it, and I still feel kind of dissatisfied. I mean, you know, maybe maybe one day it'll make sense for us to really just batten down and say, right, maybe whenever we do one for Armageddon ninety nine, hint hint, Hopper members, there we go, it'll be time. Really who said? Who said everything about?

What can we what kind of timeline can we assemble on this thing we got? Uh? You know, I mean, you know, hey, you know what, there still is a you know, maybe maybe maybe uh Triple H can't satisfy maybe uh Stephan anymore, Maybe that maybe satisfaction is out the window. I mean, what I want you to do is think what's going to happen? How old are the kids? How old are the are all the kids? Because like you know, maybe uh think of the kids staff

totally. You know, maybe you know, once once, once that happens once, once they're out, you know, maybe maybe it's time for full disclosure. Interestingly, you right, and those kids that Billy Gunn was referencing in that clip we played that, Yeah, wudn't put the business before, which is apparently a mark against him in Triple H's mind. You know, we know they are now they're they're a top tag team in a w the Guns. So it's really interesting how that all plays out. But that's why

they're on the separate sides of the aisle. I mean, that's the history of bad blood between them, such that Billy Gun's over here trying to make a w work the wild stead of another w W ten. As far as I can tell, I'm sure there's a lot more twist and turns in the years that come. I'm sure there's a lot of fake making up between the two. Yeah, of course, and pretending that it was all good. But that's the thing, like, it's always simmering with with with with trips.

It's always still there. It's always going to say a little something, a little remark here, you know what I mean. He's not a guy with the twist. A little bit you know, leaves you feel like, what do you mean by that? When he says something, what do you mean by that? What do you mean? What? What? Hey? I'm always been on your side. I am the side. I am the side. Yeah that be mashed potatoes, I mean creamed corn and he's and

I think Billy nailed it too. It's like, so you're the top guy because you have nothing else in your life that you think about besides wrestling, Right, Yeah, that's that's your reason to be in this pole position, doesn't it doesn't know not at all? I mean, is that the same thing they kept him there? He deserved it, but because he was just in nothing twenty three hours a day. Ww's all he did and thought about. And Vince loves that shit. If you're willing to sign up for that,

he'll push anybody. But there's there's so few that that would And it's like the I mean, but that's not what makes Yeah, that's not what

makes a champion. The champion is the guy who sells the tickets, right, That, to me is what you have to do, because you can't can't demonstrate value outside of that, right exactly, like clear you know, market value to where like you have leverage, like like could Triple Ah ever incredibly come to Vince's whole career and say like you better pay me or I'm leaving, like no, And the fact that he knows Triple H will never say that to him is probably a big part of the reason that he kept

him and pushed all those years, to say nothing of the fact that he was his fucking son in law, which is a stroke of genius. But I invite you to consider what Stephanie looked like in her development, you know, when she was doing the storyline with Test. Just picture her face and then think of Triple H getting getting in on that you have the reality that that represents. Just think about like, you know, bent over behind me.

Look, Triple H fucking giving her the game, all right, like and that imagine she you know, yeah, her voice is so annoying as it is. Can you imagine when she's getting fucked like that raspy squeally fucking that that that you know, pig and ship scream and I am, I am, I could be a lot worse. Look, she is something she shied away from Howard interview she did talking about. I'm not I'm not saying that. I'm not saying she shied away. I'm just saying, imagine being

him and hearing that sound. Okay, that's all I'm saying. He's coming off China. I mean, you know, it's not really well. And that's the thing we have seen that you know, that's been out there people can see to China, she was never the same within like two years after actually linking up with the real life, like she was like ripped and had like a cartoonist chest. Remember when she had the bangs? Remember that that

I do? I do? She was like, Oh, I know, all of a sudden, like bricked up in the upper all of a sudden, she's massive. She on her working out and stuff. Yeah, like, come on, it's too AM's do something fun. I really love it. He challenges me to live a healthier lifestyle. Yeah, that's so hot. That's actually one of that was always one of my requirements when I was dating, was like, can let me ask you? So, can you

challenge me to live a healthier lifestyle than I already am? There's nothing more romantic than being up at three point thirty in the morning hour gym at the Des Moines Marriotte of the snow outside. I don't want to go to bed, No, we gotta work out after TV. The game so much leather, Oh god, back then, what I mean? Leather and denim? Leather and denim. My my path to championship one leather denim growth. Yeah,

hormones so tremendous. I mean so tremendous. So he's got the belt now, and like we said, there's this detour with Vince winning it from him and and that's really a testament to the creation of SmackDown. We can't we can't lose the we can't lose that SmackDown is a key part of this

story. Oh yeah. SmackDown of course makes this debut the last week of August of nineteen and ninety nine on the UPN network, and it's it's you know, it's a reflection of the the success they've had in the Attitude era and how much attention they've drawn total ratings they've been able to attract that a network like UPN, I mean we're talking network television, not not cable such

as it was at the time, wanted a piece. They wanted some WWF and it was a totally different kind of like play because they had you know, they would have you know, they would have like movie trailers on for the Friday movie releases, and they'd have a different kind of advertiser that would come to the table all of a sudden, and you know, he had I remember one of the early episodes he had fucking Schwarzenegger on there. He was promoting end of Days. Yeah, and who did he mix it up

with? Triple H punched him in the head right at ringside Camire, Come on, it's weird. I remembered him as being in the event's title change, but he wasn't. I don't. I don't think so. I remember he might have been, don't remember when he was there, evinced winning the belt. But I murged those two things in my head for some reason. Maybe he maybe he did it to uh, I bet it. Maybe he did it for helped gain getting just combobulated to lose to Big Show. So

we're talking about SmackDown. Just need to set set the mood. Okay down, Oh you running shot? Don't miss SmackDown Thursdays and nine seven seconds only on UPM WHOA unbelievable. And you noticed they didn't say UPN because when they would play the ads for SmackDown on Raw USA network, they almost never said UPN. They weren't like allowed to. So it was a competing network yep,

of course, and you had to find it. But they said they would hit it really hard on the pay per views, including painting it on Stevie Richards's chest when it comes out in the Accolytes segment. So fucking weird. But it was a new I don't know, did you feel like disoriented that suddenly there was a second weekly WWF show and it was on a different channel, and oh god, yep it was very hard for me too.

Yep. Well that didn't bother me. I kind of dug the idea that there were like these, you know, that there was a blue show. I I was, I tell you, though I used to I was so used to just raw Monday nights that it was. It took me a long time to get onto the Thursday bandwagon. Yep. Not because they didn't want to. God knows. I wanted more wrestling than I could ever possibly imagine

at the time. But it was hard to remember. It was hard to remember to watch it for a while, and that what always amused me about it was like, you know, Vince Russou would talk about how adding the SmackDown workload to his schedule without any additional compensation was part of what led to him to seek an exit from WWF. So he goes to a WCW where he has to write Thunder two. Yeah right, and also by the three hours. I was gonna say it like it's an additional hour of television,

So that that was kind of funny, but it was. It was It was a lot more because you know, if you write television the way Brusso wrote during the Attitude, there were like you absolutely pour your heart into every week show in terms of like how can I fill this with I'm not holding

anything back, right, I'm not holding anything in the distance. I'm just like, based on everything that happened last week, where can all these characters go next with a little bit of twists and a little bit of novelty that that will capture people's attention again for another round. It was episode in that way, and it was self contained, and you know, stuff would begin and end on the same show, like a episode of Friends or something.

Right right, there were you know, there were structure to it, but it wasn't like they were always teasing, like teasing something for six months. It was like, no, all right, that's over. What's gonna happen next? That's over, what's gonna happen next. That was the experience of watching Raw every week when he was writing it, and to then have to do that with a second show a week. I can see it being kind of a mind fuck, right, It's like, so I do I begin

and start two things a week? Now, you know that Steve Austin begin and start two stories a week. That's fucking crazy. But he doesn't have the style to where he can carry something from Monday to Thursday. I can see it really messing with him, honestly, and he yeah, I agree. I agree. And Thunder was such a mess when he took over that it's kind of an indication of that as well, Like Thunder almost became a like a separate track. It was like things that happened on Thunder had like

no connectivity to Nitro, even though it was involving the same wrestler. Sometimes it felt like because he was just so in that like every show is itself, it's its own self contained gift box of odds and ends. That's annoying. Well, it just it has its limitations, and I think he bumped up against those eventually. But I can see why adding a second show to

his play would uniquely fuck with his head. But at the same time, I kind of smirk at the idea that, like, you know, it's it's sort of like a worker's rights thing that I wasn't being paid for That caused him to write to sour on it. Anyway, SmackDown hits and it changes. It's another thing that marks that that departure from the attitude era that we had really savored because it's that one time a week that's all you got Raw, that was it, yep, yep, and then the pay per

views. But now there's this second show and do I really need to see it? Is it? Are they going to book this thing as appointment television? Or if I watch Raw every week? Am I going to get everything right? Right? And you know they've gone through a millionaire variations of this

over the years, from having split rosters in the show. There are many many years where, especially when it's on like My network TV and CW, where all SmackDown was was with like turned into a six man right, he'd have like a singles match on Raw and then to be a six man on

Friday, and then he moved to Rights and that's all. It was just rehash of what happened on Raw with some more wrestlers sprinkled in and the match was the match constitution changed a bit, but back then they were experimenting what SmackDown going to be. Yep, and it became, you know, a big part of where Triple H would would develop his character because he was developing

at the same time the show was looking to take off. And so, as I said at debut August twenty sixth, nineteen and ninety nine, as of course named after the Rock, calling smack Down his show and using the SmackDown catchphrase and all that lay if the smack it down, et cetera. It's kind of funny that that, you know, it really has stuck, like it came from that. Yeah, he just said it, and it became the whole franchise. It was his whole thing. Like it's so weird.

Sure, if that's part of the ip that he got ownership of to come back in the board, he got the right to the Rock and the People's Champion and so many the other things he's called himself over the years. But does he have the right to the SmackDown? That's right, that's right? Does he do they have to? Like, you know, whoever gets this USA network they have the next SmackDown contract, do they have to pay a license fee to the Rock as the owner of the term SmackDown. Yeah,

I feel like it's likely. It's probably I would imagine that. I mean, if he was smart, he would do he would have done that. Yeah, mean he is. He can massage things. Yeah, a unique position massage things. So one of the big things out of the gate. You know, just two three weeks after SmackDown debuts at number sixteenth nineteen ninety nine, they would take this on Tuesday Nights, by the way,

and aired on Thursday. Yes, I know, I remember that because sometimes sometimes I would I would I would read the spoilers before I would see the show, and I was kind of like, uh, I don't need to watch it, right. And that was a departure too, because WWE would

also would have their spoilers. They would, yeah, they would. It would drive him so crazy that the the sheet sites would have the results from people who attended the tapings that they just decided we'll post them, like people are going to come to us to get characterize what's going to happen on SmackDown. We're not going to just like, you know, pretend that people can't find these results if they really want to find them. Yeah, what would

they what would they put? Would they just put like one line descriptions of the finishes or would they get into detail. I don't remember. I don't remember if it was a lot of detail, but I definitely knew I lacked interest to watch Thursdays. Yeah, at times it didn't help it. Also, I'm overstating, because before that, what do they do? They did raw live Monday and then tape the next weeks. We're on Tuesday, right, so you could find it was going to happen every other Raw just as

easily as you could find out what was gonna happen on SmackDown. And that was during the highest ratings period the show ever had, And there was never really a big difference between the rating of tape raw would get in the height of the Attitude era versus it being live, So as many people had access to the taping results, it didn't make any difference whatsoever when it came to how many people tuned in. Yeah, so that was probably their psychology there.

But all of a sudden, now it's not live raw tape, next week's raw and you're done for a week, and you kind of have a week off from a writing perspective. Now it's like no, Now Tuesday is SmackDown and you need to do a new raw Monday. That's also a big change in workflow, except I'm sure Russo would write Monday, Tuesday and one day and then be done and then have it a week with it. You

didn't have to worry about it or worry about it less. So anyway, September sixteenth rolls around and that SmackDown, as mentioned, that's where they decide to have Vince McMahon won the title. And thanks to you for looking all that up as far as like sid to it. But here's what it hounded Fike the milk out. I've never seen anything like that through my life. Can harm No, it's what's he doing? No under money my dom day form definitely a time mcman is the Champan man is the definite w champion.

Whoa what's like? What a triple quick weeks? That is the question. That's something else too that marked a line of Okay, this isn't what it used to feel when Lillian Garcia and Tony Chimmel were the voices instead of Howard Finkel. Yes, and Finkle became like the Ralphus to the newly arrived Chris Jericho for a couple of weeks yep, yep, and then then he did

pay per views again. They did pay per views again. But like those moments like Triple H beating Mick Foley for the title for the first time, should not have Lillian Garcia announcing and new I know, if you wanted to feel like w W fans had been trained it to feel like what a new true king had been crowned. Here we were dealing with change the the uh so let me ask you this is there is so Steve Austin coming out in this It just makes me think about the other about WrestleMania this year and stuff

and a big complaint about people. I don't know, I don't remember how where Austin was throughout the entire episode, if he was there or if he just showed up for this this moment, but Austin made it a point almost all the time. That was the kind of a thing they did with Austin, where you you wouldn't know where he was and if he was going to be there, and then all of a sudden the glass would shatter and the crowd would go nuts, And like I just remember people saying they had a

problem with people being in the back. I mean, I know I said I had a problem with people being in the back, but I have certainly have no problem with so call Steve Austin coming down and saving Vince mick mannon giving him the world title. Now, wouldn't you say a problem with people in the back. You mean like John Cena coming out at Wressell. Oh, the idea that they're sitting there whole time, right right, Ye, I don't remember any of that. None of has had a problem with U

with with Steve Austin doing it, not at all. No, it's money. Yeah, was always great. You could you could believe that Steve Austin would show up and just kind of sit there and like monitor things, and if somebody pissed him off, he'd go out there. Yeah yeah, But

if nothing pissed him off, he wouldn't go out there. He didn't have a he didn't have a scheme, a long range plan, he didn't have tactics, you know, when he would show up or he just oh okay, well fuck this, I'm gonna go out there and that this pisses me off, right, this wrong, or I'm gonna manipulate these circumstances to my advantage or whatever the case might be. Yeah, the glass shatterings, fucking forget about it. Oh, it's it's it's it's always money. You hear

that fucking thing go off, and it's a surprise. Forget it, dude. And then he helps like just they did the same thing when Mankind beat Rock first time. He comes out and he smacks them with a chair and

it's like, this is fucking amazing because he's still off. He's still like, you know, he's still being Steve Boston, that he's still making sure that what he wants to happen happens even if he doesn't win, right, right, he's still running around reminding you that he's such a chaos agent that he can basically, he can fuck with you whenever he wants that, even if that there comes a moment that there comes a moment that this is how

that, this is how his mind works. Is that right, if I'm not going to have a chance to win here against you, I can damn well guarantee you that you are not going to win, right exactly. And it's not that I'm it's not that I'm friends with the person I helped win at all. I mean, for Christ's sake, it's Vince McMahon, right, but in this instance, it's going to satisfy me more to piss you off. And so Vince is going to have to win the belt so that

Monday and I remember, like what are they going to do here? Like Vin's going to defend the belt? I mean he'd wrestled. It's not like like we'd never seen Vince have matches, so across my mind like is he gonna have a rain? Like not forever? But I mean it would have been it would have been fun to have him at the pay per view right than the championship, like be or be in the six pack challenge. That would been fun. Would have been fun, absolutely, but you know they

were, they were. It's probably in this to me, is Vince McMahon more than Russo immediately trying to like address this like, yeah, we did it for a for a moment, we did it for a twist, but we can't let the fans, for any moment, any length of time, sit with the idea that I'm actually to be regarded as the WWF champion, Like he takes the belt too seriously and has spent too much time making the

belt mean something to his audience to let that sit for too long. So I mean I I sat there with it, and I remember thinking myself, well, it's about time. This makes total sense, Like it's finally fucking happened that he's won his own championship. You kind of surprised he never beat Austin for the belt over those years. Yeah, yeah, like it was. It was such a weird year because while there was certain, there was

a certain amount of loss that he took to all these things. He also he won the Royal Rumble, which Kyle's coming like, oh yeah, that actually kind of makes sense, And he also won the championship in ninety nine, Like that was his year with two different skins on. You know, he won the Royal Rumble as the uber heel mister McMahon fucking with Steve Austin, and he won the WF title with Steve Austin's help, yep, as like a baby face. And I remember that being that that nineteen ninety nine

was when it sunk in with me. This guy's actually an amazing performer, Like, yes, he didn't just look into a heel mister McMahon character that people are gonna hate Boo he actually can become a babyface just like that and not change his character. He exactly he did. He absolutely did. He went back and forth and back and forth every time he decided to turn. It worked one percent. Yes, people hated him like they want to see him die, and then they loved him like they wanted to see him take

over the world. And he could do it better than anybody I've ever seen, including pro wrest you know, actual in ring pro wrestlers. So there he is, and like I said, the notion that he's actually the WF champion doesn't stand for very long because the very next Monday on Raw, the first thing he does is he comes to the curtain. He's got his blazer buttoned, and then he opens the blazer and he's got the strap around his waist, that old circular WWF title boss. Yes, I like it.

I like it. I still stand by it. I mean, listen, it's not the classic eighties winged eagle, but I take it as a very close second. I was a big fan of it at the time. So he kind of gets his moment where he actually walks around as the champion with the belt on his waist with a smile on his face, but he's still

got a full suit on. He's not here to fight. And then he gives the explanation and talks about how he was sidelined from the WWF as a result of the fully loaded the aforementioned fully loaded stipulations up until this point in time, and he found himself in this situation winning the championship. What does this all mean and what are his plans now that he's got the belt around his waist yet he's not really supposed to be involved in anything. Right,

here's Vince giving the explanation. This is an extended clip of basically how wet it from Triple H's losing the belt after winning it to Vince and to unforgiven where it's on the line and Triple H can get it back with a huge desist from that, typsis right, its next fall time off. Miss McMahon became the w W Thursday Night on you for the hands some Maackdawn. Oh,

I'm telling you, Triple A just gotta be going nuts. For most of you who don't believe that anything could happen in the World Wrestling Federation, I guess you're a believer. Now that's the truth. Amen to that. You see you last Thursday when Triple H personally provoked me, it wasn't about the w w F title, No, it was simply attempting to get the Triple H's ass. And thanks to of all people, Stone Cold Steve Austin, amazing yep, I became the World Rustling Federation Champion. But being the

champion is all business. That's what it's about. And as you all know, per a previous contract, I'm prohibited from engaging in day to day business activities. Oh yeah, and I live up to my words. So therefore, tonight I am relinquishing the World Rustling Federation Championship. What man, what relinquishing the built and declare as the McMahon family spokesperson that the winner of the six Pack Challenge at this Sunday's Unforgiven will be the undisputed World Wrestling Federation Champion.

Who That's the Sunday of papers, Still cold, Staircase, the Stars past, the coming Tapi, the second Sector never all lost, then there's no move off. That means all cheer. You never know what's gonna happen here. First of all, let me say this, even though I still hate your guts hell, you might even still hate mine. I will say this, this place just hasn't been the same without you, you silly bastard.

I think that was a compliment. Now from what I'm picking up with you, relinquishing the World Wrestling Federation title and taking yourself out of the match you're I'm forgiven that leaves only five people in a six pack match, and you can believe me, nobody here knows a six pack better than Stone Coach

Steve Owsen a Stone pull six pack. So when I'm proposing to you as what I'll do is take your place in that six pack match and unforgiven and take back exactly what is mine, and that's the World Russelly Federation title. Did he do that? I don't know. It's a fair request. I cannot and will not engage in normal business activities. I can't do that. I know that's what they want. I can't do that, even if he wanted to hear that. You're damn right your kids, and believe me,

Jack, you won't. Jack. I know what you do in trying to pull, but I have every right to be in that six pack match, and unforgiven the two you stole from me, like sleeves in the night. You stole my property. Idiot, you kill my goal. I told you, that's what he thought. As if Helsley hasn't broken the rules, Mary felt like it. I think you're in Houston. They're calling your name again. You needn't got good of trap with these idiots sticks. I don't care.

I could care lest you get all kissed my ass. I can't even the words you're saying, because you've got nineteen thousand people calls you an asshole. Where your report your song triple h Vince, it goes like this. You've gotten two choices. You either get me my slot in a six pack match, or I swear to God and Vince, you look me dead in my eyes, and you will know that I am not lying. You will personally watch as one of your family members takes a ride out of this building

on a stretcher. Oh come on, that's that's that's cheam for us Vines family, And no chance, man, old man isn't getting interesting here. They're saying, McMahon, hey, listen to Simles. Nobody in my family is gonna be hurt ever again by the likes by you. Ever. As

my mother said last week Trimple H. You chunk your own brave. Now you have to lie in it. Payback, Sarah, bitch, Triple H. And tonight you will learn the meeting of the work payback, because tonight in that very ring, it's you in China in a special tag team match against Shane and Ben s McMahan. Where does the mcmah boys, what get damn song? Oh they've got surprise box. What's something? Man's I guess?

Triple H T and China here to night. We stop letting that hot headed son of a bitch run your company, Vince one, your girls said, and take back your damn company. Oh nothing would please me any greater to get in my hands on the rings of the World Wrestling Federation again. But you know damn well the contract we signed and fully loaded and stated that if the Undertaker didn't defeat you, I was gonna be on the sidelines. And unfortunately that's exactly where I am. That was in July, Jesus Christ,

Vince Dan, your little hotshot lawyers read the Five Prince. The Five Prince said that only one son of a bitch could reinstate you in the World Wrestling Federation. What tait a minute. Are you trying to say, and that one son of a bitch would be me Stone, old Steve Alston, ma'am, that's a blockbuster. What are you saying? What I'm saying is

I'll reinstate your ass back in the World Wrestling Federation right now. If you've granted me my World Wrestling Federation title shots, man, that's a deal for you. That's bribery. If that's me, then I'm gonna consider myself reinstated. Coach. You just got your title shot. Long stands. This thing never back in the sadder here wait a minute, but it won't be. It won't be an unforgiven. No what you meet, you meet the winner of the match at unforgiven. The person that's gonna be in that six pack

challenge, and I'm not rewarding him, don't get me wrong. Is gonna be you, Triple H Coast. There are five other guys who wanted you're ask just as badly. It's like you tonight, boy, that's a fact. Let's starting triple to stay or fine, But you know what, screw you, Vince Oh no, no, screw me, Vince mcman no, no, screw you. Since the referees are on strike. Guess what.

There is now a special enforcer in the six pack Chige and his name a stone called is gonna be The porcers asked the bottle bar, go stall, go send. So you can't believe it took care of a lot of business there, didn't they Jesus Christ? How many how many boxes did they check

in that one talking segment? That's unbelievable. So like all this stuff is now like reversed, and all this stuff about Vince on the sidelines in Austin is the boss and Vince's the champion and Triple H is the the rightful champion. It's all like I know, and my mom needs to you know, grocery shop. Yeah, that was unspoken, but it was there. Absolutely. Remember what opening talking segments on raw felt that way? Oh my god, I'm not saying but I mean, it doesn't feel like that anymore.

What you felt like something happened like there there was you know, there really was not a wasted moment there. You know, like everything built off the off of what was said, and they went from a point A to a point B to a point C, and you know it, it got it got to the you know it, it didn't feel like it was meandering or self congratulatory or just other bullshit. It was like, no, no one's out there to hear themselves talk right out on the public, right, and

it it just worked so true. So that's how we get done forgiven. I mean, that's all the pieces there. And to hear Vince in that element, like you know, because like there was something about him still keeping that like very formal, you know, corporate executive way of talking in phraseology like he wasn't He wasn't like yet the Vince that would uh, you know, melt down in a total fucking speaking in tongue psychopath. We hadn't seen that Vince yet, right, They hadn't run the nWo poison thing, so

he hadn't explored that part of his fucking range yet. So we're still talking like he would talk when he was at Loggerheads with Steve Austin as the corporate

champion or trying to get Steve Austin to act like the corporate champion. But all of a sudden, now that kind of like formality of talking and the cold Steve Austin is just fucking It's amazing in the way it accentuates what's going on here, because it's like, now we have a guy, you know, who's like by the books with with tremendous power, agreeing that Steve Austin is actually on the right side of this one, and that's a new kind

of electricity than we were accustomed to in them. Yes. Agree, So it definitely benefited Triple H. I think to be in a position that that intraplay with Steve Austin and Vince McMahon as it took on kind of a new shade. But yeah, just it's just when you watch those opening talking segments of those Attitude era ras man, it's like, oh, it's it's nothing. I mean, it's like it's like you're hooked for the rest of the show. You have to watch the next two hours. You have to yep.

And they stop doing that in a lot of ways. They stopped doing that once they went to three hours and they realize that actually the top of the second hour is where the most audience is, and once you start to get to ten to eleven, Like even though when they were on from ten to eleven in the Attitude era, it's just the numbers aren't there to justify shooting your hottest angles and putting your biggest stars on TV. It's just you're

not putting the people out there that can maximum. It's kind of funny, like it's kind of funny like that. You I mean, yeah, I I it's interesting to me how they then cater to what the audience says versus trying to keep the audience watching what they want, right, you know what I mean, they just sort of like they just like accept defeat. Right to me, that that's exactly what that is. Like You're not trying to get them to watch. You're you're you're setting up the fact that, okay,

that they're not. We're never going to get them past this hour. Let's just do this. And it's like during the Abjude era, it never really felt like that. It felt like you just you need like the big stuff was always going to happen at the end. You know, the big angle was going to happen at the end where you would want to keep watching, right right, you wish rawls on for another hour to see the fallout.

Yeah, It's it's very true. I mean I think what happened is the years went by, they started to game out like, Okay, you know, we're on against a lot of other live competition, like when when is that competition going to EBB to where when does the football game end? But people are still looking for something to watch on television as opposed to go

to bed. That's when won't put our big angle And if it's not football season, we'll put it at this time and if they like, they analyze years of trends on that same way in deciding where to put certain things. I feel, I'm so annoyed. It's it's very annoying because the only way to do it open segment previews the main event. It's it. It's the only way to do it. Every other form, I don't care what games you play, what spreadsheets you have, is is an inferior way to do

it. Opening segment, your Biggest Stars, closing segment, your Biggest Stars closing segment references what happened in the opening segment, and then you can do some interstitials across the way to keep people running. Mean, that's the thing too, like I think you need to have that that there's no other way

period. One of the things that's really that's really lost too is the fact that there's no there's no through line through each episode, like it's it's so segmented, you know, like there's no sense of it being a complete show or like everyone every every every segment is its own YouTube clip, right and now with the show being three hours, matches go over two segments now, so it's like the matches never seen to end when when they are in there,

and sometimes they're great. It's and I'm not complaining, I'm just saying it's just such a different viewing experience. But like, i mean, think about it too, in terms of some of these episodes, you know, some of these these Prime Attitude episodes. I mean we you know, we've talked about this that nauseum I know, but we're here is you know, you'd have you'd have like Steve Austin would not just be there once or twice. He'd be there throughout the show, you know, in little segments here

and there, behind the scenes things and whatever. It wasn't just this this like okay, you've done your bit, now you can go home. It was no, there's there's more to be said here. It's still cooking. This thing is still similar it was on the side, it was it was you know, more thought out like, you know, I feel like part

of it is his laziness in the writing. It's like, ugh, I don't want to have to think about inserting little segments throughout the whole show referencing this, and let's just put everything here and that's it, yeah, and we move on. It's kind of like what the a under this is exactly what it is, But it's kind of like how the show would begin to resemble if you assigned different writers and producers to different wrestlers, and angles are

supposed to have one person orchestrate everyone's angles. Yeah, I mean it's like, honestly, you're right, it feels like an anthology movie, you know, where they have those movies that are basically a bunch of shorts. Then you know that are that are disconnected. It's right, you know it's yeah, and there's a sheet and you want to know something to you want to know something. I never like those movies. I want to do movies so bad, but I don't like those movies at all, even if they're directed

by some of my favorite directors. I don't care to understand what the way they do it. Now they can all pass around a sheet that says seg two producers, Billy Kidman and list Can we pass? Give me a hey? Can I get the pages for for SEG two version three? It lists personnel in in slim fitting suits and brogues with their ankles showing with no socks. Who are responsible for this segment? Who? Who? First of all, what are the costumes for this? For this segment, for this on

air on air visual segment? Oh God, fucking kill me. I hate it. Well, that's Triple or TV production. What's that? We're TV production, We're a production entity. I'm not going to do that that. Uh you know. We we provide weekly entertainment escapism. Uh you know, major you know, focusing on the the very desirable eighteen to thirty four demographic of of of content observers. We don't have audience members anymore. We have

the a w WE content deservers longer have content observers. Well, Triple Ah is the chief content officer. I mean, listen, we can't listen. I think I think it's calling them the w W universe is a little we can't call them fans because they're not and we W universe is too far out there. I think we got to kind of get down to what they are. And whenever we reference the people watching our product, we call them the w w WE Content Observers focus group, Panel Panel. So I want to

reach out, you know, this is a mock promo. I want to reach out to all the members of the w w WE Content Observers. All right, I think that I think that that'll that'll play better to to you know, the different algorithms that you know, we want, you know, we basically want you know, we want to take our WWE superstars or entertainers. We want to make them influencers. So we want them to be the WWE influent influential stars. So here's this full house at Lincoln Financial Field,

mistrail effect. Should we consider these people here to see wrestling matches, are here to see content, game content? Tell them content, absolutely content. We produce content. So that is triple h as it regards Unforgiven nineteen ninety nine. A lot to say there, and it's been said. But he's not the only wrestler, of course in the six pack. Now there's quite a few. Go there's Caine, there's Mankind, and there is the British Bulldog. There mean hm out one now men him med him out me me

me, me me meanie meie him Bulldog in jeans Attitude Era. How how fucking annoying is that he's not in jeans on this show? There's the Union Jampan what a loose? I was looking? Did you have wrestling jeans on pay per view? Yeah? Oh yeah, tell Nuer what what do you do? Oh? I mean he's on He's on Armageddon, He's on No Mercy, He's on Survivor series does a rebellion? They make reference to it on the pay per view. There's a UK show coming up on Skybox Office.

Oh yeah, he is the on the network is Rock Triplation in a cage and he's all over the show in jeans. He wrestles XPOC beats him and then yeah he's ferous wrestled and I know so I bought the The Armageddon ninety nine VHS becas Tits and and I remember it. Yeah he does. He wrestles in jeans in the European Championship match against uh uh, it's Valving this maybe Steve Blackman too. It's fun because I remember this now now that I'm watching this back, I'm like, yes, it was like Rock coming

out at Wrestlingania fifteen. It was like, wow, he's not wearing the tracksuit. He's back in the truck. I get the rock I want, I get the rock I envision, I get the rock of an action figure. And here I get the Davy boy Smith of an action figure for just once in this ninety nine two Yeah run yeah, it does not happen ever again, I don't think so. It was an interesting return to the WWF

for the Bulldog. Do you remember that promo he did on Raw after he made his first SmackDown appearance, kind of coming out like with a leisure suit, huge lapels. I remember, like it's funny. I do remember. I don't remember anything he said, but I remember the moment. I remember him coming out. I remember being pretty ecstatic. Actually, you know,

this is a Hasbro guy. Yeah, like you know I was. I never thought we'd get the Hard Foundation guy's back ever, you know, and so here comes here comes Davy, and I was like, oh shit, like this is this is pretty cool? Like I wasn't expecting that. And then you know, it's pretty quickly mid card central and you forget about him, but he does in the very beginning frame it up is I'm going for

the WWF title. That's the belt I've never won. Yes, yes, remember that allowed you to think for a second that he was actually going to be pushed, you know what I mean, commensurate with where he left. They allowed him to think that he was actually going to get pushed. So this is the only spark of optimism of this run for Davy Boy Smith.

I think fans were really allowed to have. This is his first appearance on Raw after showing up on SmackDown and doing the thing where he takes the hardcore title and in an instant and gets involved with boss Man and Al Snow for some reason that he targets Rock And wasn't he the guy when the Rock did the sliding people's elbow with the loafers, that famous thing. I think either it was either was Bulldog or it was he was involved in that situation somehow.

So here's the messaging and here's the return to Monday Night Raw on this ill fated run of Davy Boy Smith. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome one of the most honored athletes in the history of that d Baby Boy Smith Wool whatever he is, the British Bulldogs. I still can't believe what he did. Next week he showed up out of nowhereat Big Bossman with the hard Courts title, and then as he was walking away, he handed the hard court

title. Is that idiot Al Snow? I'm still in shocking now for some reason, SAYR wants to be the man to talk to the British bulldog an ugly suit. Have you got a couple of questions that I'm sure as all the fans here, I'd like to ask you now, did giving Al Snow the Hardcore title after you wanted have anything to do with your motivation on why you came back to the WWB. Well, First of all, Jim, that's why to let everyone know him. The reason I give El snowl first

Hoodlefold belt is because he he deserves it. Second of all, I wanted to show all the people, are the all the dotors that didn't think the British Bulldog could make a comeback after his injury, that I could come back. Because you know what, Jim, just stand here live in Anaheim, California. It's a rather remarkable comeback. All these people know I've been the European Champion, I've been the Unconnell Champion, and I was one half of

the World Wrestling Federation Tag Team Champions. But there's only one belt that the British Bulldog has not quite got his grips on, and that's the w WF Championship. Before I retire and get out of the World Wrestling Federation, and let me add, that's going to be a lot time before I do that, I will be the World Wrestling Federation Champion. Have a Bulldogs EPI after triple h two. So yeah, that was the spark of optimism there. Sounds like he's onf way, I mean, sir, I thought so.

Actually he's talked about coming back from injury and proving, you know, that he could do it, and of course he's referencing a WCW injury, something that I think it's kind of presumptuous that the fans would even know about that

injury. Maybe they talked about it on television. I don't remember. But in the book that came out, Dynamite and Davy the Explosive Lives of the British Bulldogs, taking a look, of course, at both careers, they recapped where Davey found himself between getting hurt in nineteen ninety eight, WCW and here making this return in the fall of nineteen ninety nine to the WWF. Was it in a back alley? Isn't that where he found himself? April

seventeenth, nineteen ninety nine, Calgary Hospital. Davy, now in full body cast, managed to smile for the first time in a long time as he could remember, as long as he could remember, when two of the friendliest faces in life, Owen and Mick Foley, visited him in the hospital. The WWF for back in Calgary for a house show. Oh what had excitedly given Mick directions from the airport is Mick wanted to visit Davy the moment they

landed in Calgary for the evening's house show. He assumed there would be a crowd of burly wrestlers. They are eager to take the same opportunity. Nobody cares, But he'd be saddened when he found not one other single member of the w w F roster had bothered to visit Davy. He would later write that it was the saddest day of his whole career, the day he realized the so called wrestling family was not that at all, and no matter how

popular or respected you appeared to be in the locker room. Once the business had used you up and spat you out, even the majority of the boys would forget about you. Wait, Foley just realized that, or Dave bulldog, oh, or just realize that. Yes, Wow told Mick off his shoddy treatment at WCW and and Mick talked about all that happened in his career, and they talked about the big guy had shorted treatment. I'll tell you right now, I am the British bulldog hiring my hometown of the hospital.

Well it's Calgary, I mean it's his adopted hometown. No, the hospital is my hometown. The conversation escalated quickly, and soon Owen was holding a phone to Davy's ear, with Vince McMahon on the end of the line. You know, pal, you know that's what it says. You know, Powell, we'd like you to finish your career off here with your family, Evince told Davy. You know, I mean, I don't mean Brett, I don't mean right, you know, I mean family in a loose term.

And Owen wouldn't be there either by the time he came in. You know me, Vince, I've come back from worse things, Davy said, as he lay in a full body cast on a morphine trip. I'll be back in the ring before you know it. As long as you've got a place for me, If you can get yourself healthy, there's always a home for you here, Vince assured him, and with that, Davy was given the hope he needed. He began to tell people that he had one more run left. I've got a couple women that I can send your way if

you want to use them for contract negotiations. How do you feel about that? And a dreamed of al fill and wrestling before he retired to tag with his son Harry, who was showing real promises. He continued his training in the dungeon. But he's in there taking the whompen too, the corner where he front flips. Yes, oh yeah, he's kind of sporting. God he looks a fucking mess, though, God does he look fucking Was he a mess? Though? Was he a mess? Where can we turn to

find out? Well, I'll tell you. You know, you know, there's only one person who knows him better than anybody, and I think that would be his his former wife. As she digs under the man, the mat, So before you get into the chapter, yes, that fully outlines Bulldogs return to WWF in nineteen ninety nine, as epitomized in so many ways by this appearance in the six Pack Challenge, arguably his highest profile appearance of

the run. I think he oh, no, no question, Well yeah, I would say this, and then his next one would have been facing Austin I mean as the Rock next month. Certainly he gets involved, No, no, this is his only main event though, right right, he gets involved with the Minivent picture a bit when you know, they push him hard when he first comes back in. You can't forget this is just months

after Owen heart falls from his death. Oh well, you know, to his death, I should have said, and suddenly, Dave, he's coming in. I mean that's that says a lot about the Heart family situation, yep, in terms of things, But we'll get into all that. So just before you get into the chapter about that, you know, as Diana writes, it's getting very clear during Bulldogs nineteen ninety eight WCW run that the

drug issues are really getting difficult. He's he's becoming less communicative from the road and basically it's you know, on thin ice with WCW because of his and Jim Nineheart's drug issues and the question of whether he's burned Bridges because don't forget he walked out of the company after Montreal. Yep. And now you know they're so screwed up that you know, we're out of w W lock room

as the kin put their boots on straight. And then of course he had the trapdoor incident where he got slammed in the trap door at fall bra All ninety eight and hurt his back. And then you know, there's some introduction to certain doctors that are willing to prescribe, and Davy gets his perks, he gets his somas, he gets his his tore at all, and he gets his hands on that morphine. Yes, you're damn right, and it

gets very difficult. He's you know, falling asleep at the dinner table, the Heart family dinners, and they're still Diane even tells the story about how she took a water pistol to the dinner table where there one time, so she could squirt him every time he dropped the food off his fork. Eh, and the kids are noticing he's staggering around and into her family, you know, dynamics like how hard should we be on him for this? And people turning on Diana for being pissed about it, which is as hard as

it gets. And he's hallucinating and he's just terri paranoid, hooked on a cocktails. Oh h oh oh, no, Die, are you there to die? But where am I? I feel like? Am I I opened the sky? Die? Bile my going to die? Six puck challenge? We're gonna go to a six pack challenge? Die? Can you forgive me? Oh? Am I gonna forget it? Oh? Oh oh you ready?

M m well, oh, you do your thing first. Diana simply says that word gets out that Davy is perhaps open and coming back to WWF, and she writes, Davey started getting calls left and right from every one in the WWF, from merchandise people to agents. Mankind came up to see Davy when they were in Calgary. Vince called Davy said, you know, hell, what happened with me and Brett. I wish you would come to me and talk to me about it before you quit. We'd like you to

finish your career off here with your family. Davy began to feel hopeful when he was released from the hospital this effron overdose. I believe he even refused their offer of prescription for morphine. My main concern, she writes, was getting Davy fit and healthy, but we had no money. Vince offered that even if Davy couldn't wrestle again, perhaps you could work in the office or commentate. Davy agreed, but only as a last resort. You know me,

Evince, I've come back from worse things. I'll be back in the ring before you know it, as long as you've got a place for me. Davey started back on steroids to get his weight up. Diana writes, MMMM, take me to church Boss, Chapter thirty five, My new Life. I was now at a point where I felt my life had been put

on hold. For the twenty years I had known Davy the wwe had never been more successful, and as they promised before Owen's death, they welcomed Davy's return a few months later, but no matter how many good angles they gave him, he fumbled the ball. They offered him stock options and the chance to market a workout video we had made, but he didn't pursue any of these avenues. R stock options We're taking out. You know, if you're

interested, we get we're going public. Interested in stock options? What stock options? Or you know, you get money. He says, well, like someone just told him that his drugs may not be where he left them. Get how about drugs? Was tooks it? Not directly per se, But it's a possibility that you know, the the r O I could potentially, Yes, yes you could, you could, You could buy different kinds of vices for yourself. Yes, some supplements of rest assured. Rest assured

that. Notwithstanding, he couldn't worry about business. He was too preoccupied with getting his mched. Fetch this is the day that we see at Unforgiven nineteen night. Yes, yes it is. His drug addiction was impairing his judgment and his wrestling. He was lethargic in the ring and confrontational at home. On a freezing cold day in December nineteen eighty nine, I caught him shooting up morphine. I followed him into our garage and found him injecting it into

his arm. I went berserk. I stood there swearing and screaming, quote, you son of a bitch, you bastard, How can you do this to Harry and Georgia it's obvious you don't care about me, But what about our kids? I should have left you a year ago, just a year ago. That's it. I hate you. You've ruined my life. He looked up at me, his eyes at half mast. Don't elphins. Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god.

I love it. I ran into the house and slammed the door. Moments later, he came in the house and fell on the couch, blinking at me like some kind of frog on a lily pad. I returned to the garage and grabbed his paraphernalia, which included both used and full syringes. I drove to my doctor's office. She directed me to my lawyer. Doctor, doctor, help me? How do I get to my lawyer? Oh well, you got to go this way, lawyer. Why didn't you go to

your lawyer first? And warned me not to hurt myself. She gave me a phone number for women in crisis. I arrived at my lawyer's office in tears and gave them the drugs and told them to begin divorce proceedings. Thanks for sure, Sure do you have any more? Morphy? Where is that it? I just for for your own sake and for Davy's sake. I'm just curious about anything else. Cocaine. Maybe you just get out of get out of the house I think it is, and bring it here. Bring

it here, bring it here. I don't you know, it's good that I have it all just well, you know, you know, please, can you get it? I ran into the while I waited to hear back from them. Davy and I continue to live under the same roof. When he was home, Davy was passed out in front of the television. Ellie stopped by to see me. She was worried. We hadn't talked for a week or so. Yeah. I told her what had been going on, and Davy happened into the kitchen. Show her your arms, Davy, I

ordered, yanking on his sleeves and exposing his track marks. Ellie's hands flew to her face. No, Davy, no claimed, How could you do this to yourself? You just got over your infection. Oh my god, you're gonna die. Think of Harry and Georgia and die. Davy calmly rolled his sleeves back in place. I don't have a problem, Elie. I can stop anytime. I won't. By January of two thousand, my lawyer had served him with divorce papers. Davy reacted by going over to my mom

and dad's house and sobbing in their kitchen. Why is she doing this to me, to our kids. I've done nothing wrong. I've given her everything. My parents gave him the benefit of the doubt and confronted me. My dad berated me. His logic was, rather than buy a new car, I should get the old one fixed. Taking in consideration my age and yah no spring chicken, he said bad. In combination with my long history with Davy, he felt were reason enough to try again. But Dad, I

protested, he's a drug actor, a drug addict. My dad frowned, well, he said, he doesn't have a problem, darling. Think of Harry and Georgia and what a divorce will do to them. My mom counseled Mom, I would never tell Georgia to stay with a drug addict, and I certainly don't want her growing up around one. Harry wants to go into wrestling. I don't want him to think this is okay. What drugs are

going into wrestling? Right? Hm, You get married, you become a wrestler, then you become a drug addict, and you piss it all away. But they were sure I was exaggerating and overreacting. I called Vince at home on a Sunday night. Stephanie answered she was cheerful. She was having a ball working with her dad. She brought Vince to the phone. I spilled out my story. I told him everything. I talked about my suicide

attempt, about our marriage, and about Davy's drug addiction. He told me everything, that he would investigate, yeah, oh yeah, and that I should stay strong for Harry and Georgia. Within a month, Vincent insisted Davy check into the Talbot Recovery Center in Atlanta. He would pick up the tab and continue to give Davy his paycheck. Davy called me during the TV tapings

that night. I hope you're happy I got pulled today. I know about your little phone call to Vince. Nobody's gonna make me go to another rehab. I'll show you. I'm booking myself on the first flot to England, and I'm coming and I'm gonna become a bouncer. That's what you want, isn't it. You don't know it? Withdrawers like your stupid bitch, You have no idea. I don't have a problem, he says, not a lot, according to her. I know, Well, if you don't have

a problem, then why will you have to go through withdraw? I asked. He hung up. The next day, he flew from Nashville to Atlanta. He called me from the airport and told me he wouldn't check into the recovery center unless I dropped the divorce proceedings. Then he hung up again. He was in the dry out facility for nearly two weeks. This time, instead of green dragons, he saw red. He called me every day, at least twenty times, yelling, screaming, and threatening. Who you sleeping

with? No, I don't belong here. It's your faulty. They call back and say, I'm sorry. I didn't mean that. I just can't wait to get out of here. I just want to come home so much, and I'm really sorry. I just got to get through this detok spot and then I want to get home, and I just want to see you have Harry and Georgia home. God, you're already in Georgia, Davy took out the window. If you want to see Georgia, his phone calls,

terrified at me, He sounded so violent. I quietly bought my own house and moved the kids in with me with with Just before he entered rehab, and now I was glad I did. He began to call me and brief me on what I was to tell the nurses when they called me to discuss his progress. I was to say he didn't take steroids and the only pills he had been on were percocet and so much. I didn't argue. The center did call, but only to tell me not to accept more than one

phone call per day from him. At the end of the first week of his stay, he told so, this is one week, yeah, seven days. It's like fucking naked gun right, you know, the fucking whirlwind romance. In like one afternoon at the end of the first week of his stay, he told me he had tried to kill himself on the plane. He said, just before he board it, he'd taken every pill in his possession and had shot up all the morphine he could get his hands on.

How much morphe is he gett in his hands on the fucking airport pre nine to eleven? Yeh? So he said he wanted his death hanging over me for the rest of my life, he said he had. He had to be carried off the plane on a stretcher when he couldn't get a hold of me. Twenty times a day, he called everyone in my family. He complained that I refuse to drop divorce proceedings, even though he was trying so hard to get better. He was right. I still wanted a divorce.

I did not want to live with him anymore. Decided to take the advice one gave me right after I try to kill myself. When a person gets to the point where they want to kill themselves because they are married to a drug addict, it's time to leave. You have your kids to think about. I started dating again. I'm got a young, up and coming wrestler named James Trimble who made me laugh again. Going for a wrestler. Yeah no, she's such a fucking she. She is the she's the living,

breathing definition of insanity. All right, That's that's what it is here. She is that bad. Like, come on, stop dating wrestlers. That's the problem. It started with a handshake. I have a fair grip, and he teased me about it. We went to movies and out for the occasional dinner. I was determined not to sneak around, so I told Davy I was going through with a divorce and dating. Davy immediately contacted some of hermish's friends. That's their friend. Oh, okay, I'm hermish. Yeah,

and James started getting death threats. Through this entire calamity, James and I became closer. Davy was scheduled to stay at the Atlanta facility for four months. It was going to cost Vince in the neighborhood of US one hundred thousand dollars, but after just three weeks, Davy checked himself out and came home, hoping to smooth things out. I picked him up at the airport he was selling. I showed him my new home and he insisted on coming

in. When he refused to leave, I called the police. They arrived and told me I'm not going home. This is my home. You bought the house. It's my home, home, my home tone die. They arrived and told me to leave. Before the situation, they told me to leave, man, you better leave. I don't think, I say if you're gona be in your own house. Davy began living at my new home and I hadn't nowhere to go. It's my no, my new home town, it's my new HOMETOWNE. I moved in with James in a a high

security apartment What is that in prison? With underground park cameras and security cards. Sounds pretty fucking normal apartment building to me, But whatever Davi's I moved into a high security apartment building with thank god, with maintenance man and with the first and last, first, last, and security emphasis on security. I moved. I moved into his high security apartment building with a superintendent. I moved into a high security apartment building. I think it was two thousand

dollars after first and last high security. It's the highest on the market. Actually, right, were living in Manhattan Midtown. Any high security de buzz than that. You imagine, according to your version of events, letting someone into your new house and by the time it's over, the cops are telling you to leave your better better He stands in the foyer and a muscle shirt and jeans like man, look, the guy says he's not going to go in there. I don't know what I can do, the guy said the

guy. Her husband the guy like like as if she called the cops because a guy is in her house? Not correct, husband, I don't know what you proble to do? He said he's not gonna leave. Maybe forced him out. I can't do that. Oh so glad I called a deputy dog. Unbelievable. Unbelievable not just in a high security prison apartment building? Excuse me, oh, a maximum security loft, a maximum security studio cell? Uh? Is that? What is also in Big boss Man Wrestling?

Oh God, Davies wait. Davy's last wrestling match for the ww took place in Calgary in May. According to my brother Smith, it was pitiful. It was hard on his opponent, Steve Blackman, because he broke into wrestling in Calgary and Davey was so out of it. All he could do was supplex Steven pose. People who knew Davey felt sorry for him, and those who didn't thought was thought he was a joke. The match was a complete aberration. The next time he was book in Edmonton, there's an aberration that

there wouldn't be a problem because it would just happen once. I love this book so much as it is the best wrestling book ever written. You know what, it is the book wrestling deserves to have written about oh, absolutely absolutely. The next night he was booked in Edmonton. He left late because he was hungover from too much ecstasy the night before. Harry heard the alarmer at eleven am and could not wake him. A drug dealing hanger on named

Jaden space trips. That's how you do it, You name him exactly, told Harry to quote bugger off. Let day, let Davy sleep. A couple of hours later, Harry watched them get up and give each other a shot in the becross. He's so fucked up, so fucked up. Jaden was injected with Davis used. Then the age grabbed a handful of an of a fedron or hydroxy cut, which is a caffeine pill designed to clean you out. They smoked some pot, popped some percocets, and hopped in the

car. How does she know that? Okay, Harry told her, I guess, quote directly what I know. Harry and Georgia were ordered to squeeze in the back with Davy's wrestling bag, and then he downed some soma so he could nap. During the three and a half hour drive, Jaden stopped in Red Deer to pick up a prescription of Percocet from his dad. Harry said Jaden bragged that he told his dad to visit the doctor and complain of a backache. Harry said Jaden was an was angry with his dad for only

getting fifteen pills. Ten minutes outside of Edmonton, Jaden fed Davy thirty ifhedron to wake him up. Davy arrived at the match late, incoherent and wired, Harry said. W agents Jack Landsa and Tony Geria told Harry to take him home and not to let Davy or excuse me Jaden drive. They stopped Davy from getting his blood pressure taken lest he'd lose his wrestling license. Really okay. Steve Blackman, who was scheduled to wrestle Davy for the second night

in a row, was annoyed. I can't believe you did this to me, Davy. This was my fucking wife's fault. She's playing games with my head. She's fucking with me, She's causing me so much stress. I'm more screwed up, fucking bitch. Harry and Georgia fell asleep on the ride home while Jaden drove again. When they awoke, they were in the parking lot outside the apartment building where James and I were living. Georgia washed as Jaden stuffed a tire iron down the back of his pants. What are you

knowing, she mumbled sleepily. Shut up and go back to sleep, she was told the closed circuit camera in James's building caught them pulling their hoods over their faces while sneaking through the underground parcade toward the elevator. They were stopped by security guards. Davy claimed he was just dropping our kids off. Then he and Jaden bolted for the door, making it out the building to the car and took off with the kids demanded to know what happened. The next

day, Davy and Jaden flew to Vancouver for Monday night. Raw Vince took one look at Davy and sent him home. Davy took a leave of absence from wrestling, but remained on the payroll. He threatened the kids that if they didn't live with him, he'd never speak to them again. On the only warming to Jaden moved in with him. Davy was so verbally violent with me, I didn't know what to do. I thought if I opposed him, he would kill me. On the rare occasion I was allowed near the

kids. They told me Davy and Jaden spent their days taking drugs. Hmmm, drugs. Harry would hide their pills because he was fed up with seeing his dad messed up, but Jaden would grab Harry and shake him, demanding he handed them over. They trashed my little house, and then Davey found a two bedroom townhouse over near my dad's place. There was another for sale four doors down. Davey told me that he wanted the kids to live near both of us. He was going to buy one for me and one for

him, provided I sell my little ruined house. I almost agreed to this, but while I was cleaning up the house they had trashed, I found caver jacked. Heard of that one before, I have not, but this caver j ACKed. She's about to describe what it is, A drug that promotes erection when injected into the penis. I believe in promoting erection. I think we could use that the cavern jacked. Yeah, jacked. Yeah, that's what triple A means when he says jack and every promo Yeah right exactly.

I was finally the idea that he might have a girlfriend, until I found out who it was. He had started seeing Bruce's wife Andrea, who, if I remember correctly, is a ring rat who was underage. God help us. I think, I mean, she might not be at this point, but I think when when Bruce started fucking her, I think she was under rage. God help us. I don't know. It's been a while since I read the whole thing. It's if we have this impression.

It's from their own books, by the way, Yeah right, yeah exactly. I've never read his book, but I do know that I remember. I think Andrea is like the Really she's a psychopath. Yeah, Diana goes off on her throughout the book. I believe, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I do think she was underage. Originally, Harry and Georgia told me that she had moved her new furniture and clothing into his condo. She ordered Harry into the garage and Georgia into the living room floor, and

her own kids into the bedroom Harry and Georgia had occupied. I was stunned, and so was Bruce. He called me and told me to try to get back with Davy so Andrea would quote haul her scrawny, polluted carcass back home. Great family carcass. Really, yes, hearts just a class act all the way. I told Bruce he was crazy. Davy hadn't changed. I wouldn't dream of going back. Meanwhile, Harry and Georgia watched Davy overdose

over and over again. The ambulance was called six times between March and September. He phoned me repeatedly and warned me he was going to kill me. You'll never see your kids again. I'm gonna boot fuck you and James, I'm gonna sit your throat. I would like you to know that in the book up it is spelled bot f U c K, which is how he would bring bootfuck boot fuck. Davy was totally irrational because I was dating again. Of course, it didn't help me that James was thirteen youngers than Davy.

I called the police many times, but all they did was advise me to stay away from him. Man, I can tell you, ma'am, I'm not going there. Have you considered not going near him? Listen? I appreciate where you're coming from, and I definitely listen. All right. I don't I empathize with you regard to your children, but I don't know what you want me to do about it, right, don't you know your

responsibility is not only to report, but to suggest solutions. I'm not all right, listen, I will not go into that house, all right. That is that's not on my payroll. It's not my pay you know, jumpscription, it's not on my payroll. That's not on my payroll. Pay grade, pay grade, on my payroll. I'm not paid to you know, police people. In fact, between me and you, I'm not paid. You mean you. I'm not paid. Also, I'm not qualified, and I'm not sure I have much reason to live anymore. Is that a

sound that sounds like traffic below you? He's standing in a Are you standing on a ledge? Ma'am? Thank you for ma'am, thank you for calling nine to one one, and then just hear like the woh, thank you for calling nine one one. I want to thank you for being the last person I'm ever going to talk to. Oh my god, that was awful.

Why did you do that? I want to thank you for being the last person I ever talked to. Now, when we decided to do on Forgiven ninety nine, I knew hu that we'd get to Bullog and thus that we'd get to Diana, and then we get to the book what I didn't expect you'd get to. It would be the final words of a suicidal dispatcher at the Calgary Police Department wants to thank Diana for being the last person. He wants to thank her for calling nine one one and being the last person

he'll ever talk to. Thank you for obtaining the services of nine one one. After he says that's not on my payroll, he then says, Okay, this is like one way to put it, all right, thank you for obtaining the services of nine one one. I want to thank you for obtaining the services of nine one, obtaining them, not using them, taking possession of that, obtaining them. I want to thank you for obtaining the services of nine one one. No my regards, I mean I'm giving the

mo you because I'm done. You're not a nine one one lady. I mean, did she draw the short straw this day? Or what of all the guys to be working on the shift when she needs help? Just my fucking luck, She says that she hangs up, and I on the contract with the with the City of Calgary. Oh, by the way, I love that he's Boston by way of Wakefield. I mean, she's a Calgary by way of wake. Yeah, exactly. I can't believe that went there.

I really can't believe how quickly that got out of control, control all of a sudden sense that there might be something there, there might be something there. It was just like, oh, she called wait a minute. I also love these these police, this police department that is totally unwilling to to to go above, to go to do their jobs, let alone go above and beyond and then the subjector this is horrible decision to end one's life. It's oh god, uh. One time I called that one one time.

One time David kicked my door, my door, my front door, and I called nine one one and the police rushed over. One of the officers asked Davy for his autograph. It's not funny, I assure you, it's not funny, ma'am. I listen. I much appreciated that you called. Thank you for dating my services today, thank you for calling nine one one Calgary. But excuse me, I cannot do anything with your husband.

I'm a big fan. I will not, all right. I don't know what he's done to you, and I apologize for that, but this is my hero. I don't you don't know what he has done to you, and I apologize for that. Do you apologize for not knowing what he's done to you? Or do you apologize? Are you sorry to hear what he could do? Because if it's the first, you could do something about that. You could inquire. No, I know, I listen. I'm not

gonna ma'am. I understand that you have said you claim you've been through a lot, but I will not allow my image of this man to be tainted. I can allow. I'll tell you if it makes you feel better, why don't Why don't you go ahead and sign this too? For my kids? I mean, listen, if it'll make you feel better, like, I don't know who you are, but here, if you sign it too, all right, and this this makes it all okay, all right, this is that it's all good. Thank you. And then he takes the

signed paraphernalia. I don't know the fuck that had cut was. He turns around and walks towards his cruiser, but before entering his cruiser, for some reason, he leaps forty feet up in the air over his cruise and then it gets in and then and then after he lands, he does one of those jumps in the airs with the kicks of the heels, and then a flock of thirty five storms with waste paper baskets hanging from their beaks from Walmart

traverse the night sky. And that's the other story. It's fucking those fucking Smith's again. Okay, he does, he does the forty foot jump, he lands, he does the Tata and then the sky a beautiful, clear, brisk, bright blue Calgary day. And as soon as he just Tata opens his door, he gets in his cruiser. As soon as he closes his cap cruiser, the sky goes from bright blue to red and it makes this noise. The change of the color of the sky makes a noise.

It's getting and all of a sudden, and all of a sudden, it does a lot more to do. It has to do with a lot more than this family's issue. Right here ahead, dude, it does a don't turn. It just has you know, you're steeped to the story in this interpersonal drama, this sam and then all of a sudden, it's just it's the end of the world has nothing with the sun. The sudden just completely envelops the earth. What noise does it make? Again? That is mine?

You war bard nourishment. It's unforgiven ny LFX, Oh shit on that cast, don't you forget it? I felt like Nicole Simpson. I finally managed a restraining order against Davy after he left the following hysterical message Sean Ellie's answering machine, you douchebag, hord continence. I'm gonna do you. I'm gonna do your whole family, Stu and Ste's family, and that goes to my fucking wife. I'm gonna scold, drag every one of you. She fucking says, I'm gonna do you. I'm gonna do you. Take that

for what it's worth, and I'm gonna do your whole thing. You're going to do. Davy is more morphine, That's right. Ellie emailed it to Jerry mcdavidd, one of the lawyers at the w WE, and told him that that though they were paying Davy fifty thousand dollars a month, I was not seeing any of it. I had nothing. My lawyer told me Davy owed Revenue Canada and the Internal Revenue Service more than four hundred thousand dollars and that if I accepted alimony, half that debt could belong to me, so

I walked away from any settlement. I put my little house up for sale and moved back home with my parents. Harry and Georgia were with me. Davy came screaming up the driveway in his BMW and ordered the kids into his car. Georgia, hurry, your mummy's fucking nuts. If you don't get in, don't even bother calling me again. I'll never speak to you again. My heart was breaking for them. They'd been through so much, and now they feared losing their dad forever. Georgia started toward the car. I've

got to go, Mommy. He might kill himself if I don't. Davy stalked up the driveway and stormed into my dad's house. My dad was itching to speak with him. He hadn't been able to talk with him in months. When he saw Davy, he tapped him in the leg with his cane. Hey, and I had a way with you. You just be quiet and let me talk. I'm guying and discussing with you, and I thought, all by, Andrew, I should be a shame to us, how too, You know what are you doing with Andrea? It would be no

different than if Harry's wife left him for Georgia's husband. I think it's goddamn sickening. I can't blame Dayana for not't wanting anything to do with you. I feel with the poor kids for little Georgia. My dad has always loved baby Georgia. If he has a favorite, it's her. She looks like Davy, but my dad always said how much she reminds me of reminds him of me when I was young. She gets him around corners, her eyes are dazzling. Davy interrupted my dad and said, go ahead, that's say

it. What is it read in the book. What's the next thing? Davey says, like me, stu, lick me stu. My dad looked at me, frowning. Say. I leaned over and in my dad's good he repeated, he said, for you to lick him. My dad looked puzzled. It awk me to kids him. I shoot my head, Oh shook my head. Sorry, I shook my head. No, lick him. My dad still doesn't understand it. Kidss him. I can't believe this

is stop Blassic. I can't believe Davy threw up his hands and a storm down the driveway, but through the dungeon windows he spotted James working out. Bruce Smith and my dad were emerging from the house. So that's a fucking that's a fucking Motley crew if you ever heard of one. My dad was still trying to figure out what Davy had said to him. You say, you want me to pick his nose? Is he gonna Is he gonna wipe my eye? I got you know, I got some crushes in my ass?

Can you wipe my ass? I can feel it coming down. My wife sigh, oh, kind of kind of grizzly. Oh, yeah, Harry was standing by the car. Davy looked around and as if he were addressing his fans at Wembley. He pointed at the window where James was visible and said, I'm begging you just give me two minutes with him. I want to see what cut of money is. I looked over, I looked over at Bruce, who was watching with keen interest, and I suddenly figured

out who had called Davy over. Knowing that James was there, Davy charged down the stone steps leading to the dungeon. Smith and I were hot on his heels. When he entered the dungeon. Davy went after James from behind and shoved him into the weights. I grabbed a two pound pipe and screamed for someone to get dad. If you don't stop at Davy, I'm gonna throw this at your car. I ran up the steps and hurled the pipe against his windshield. It's simply glanced off. Davy grabbed me own and sueplexed

me on the lawn. I struggled free and picked up a large rock. By this time, my dad had reached us and was wheezing from the effort. He was furious, here, Dad, what you got damn rock? Davy ordered Harry into the car, and with baby Georgia wide wide eyed in the back, Davy got into his BMW and wheeled around the house and pulled up besides my Volkswagon Beetle. He kicked out the passenger window and drove away, with the kids waving to me sadly out the back window. The police

arrested David Davy shortly after for threatening to slit my fucking throat again. The judge let him go on the condition he entered rehab for a week and take some anger management courses. Vince finally let him go at the end of November. Davy hadn't wrestled in over six months. We can leave it there. Yeah, I mean, what's the problem? Totally normal and acceptable. And

look she put a book out about this. Oh okay, I mean someone thought it was a good idea at some point that this that this information. Only reason I can stand here and do what we just did is because she put a book out about it. This is the bulldog we're seeing here? Yes? Oh yes, perhaps the only thing more tragic that we see on

this show is the kennel from Hell. Any thoughts on this? You know, the idea is solid minus the dogs, The idea of a cage in a cell at When I remember it being promoted, I was like, this is a cool idea, Like this sounds ultra violent. I don't know why when you really think about it, What the fuck does it do? Doesn't do anything, not at all. You know, it actually makes it harder

to do the match than any of those who don't know. Blue barred old school cage on the ring, hell and the cell around that, and in between the hell and the cell fence and the blue bar are supposed to be a pack of rabbid Rottwilers who are going to nip at the heels of either wrestler that tries to scale the cage down to the floor and escape through the hell and the cell doors, and instead all they do is shit and piss and getting dogs something. Don't try to fuck too, isn't that well?

Oh yeah, we'll get there, ye all right. But you know, like the idea was there, it just its like again, I I yeah, I don't know. It's I don't think there's any way to make it a good match. It's to me. You you book yourself into a into a corner, much like the scaffold matches, where what people want to see

they can't see. You can have a dog attacking him. Well, not only that, but when you're up in that cage, like you want to see some kind of unbelievable violence happened to somebody in a cage situation like that, which you're not going to see, right, You can't because they don't want to kill themselves or nor each other. So yeah, it's it's definitely one of the most infamous things to ever happen in a ww F ring. It is what most people think of when they hear of Unforgiven nineteen ninety nine.

First and foremost, despite all the the deep backstory intrigue of the triple h saga that we outlined. It's this, It's the Kennel from Hell. The storyline I mean, did did? Did? I mean to me? The storyline is way worse than the match. Explain to the people why you would say that? Because Al Snow has to eat his own dog at one

point, Pepper Pepper steak huh oh god? So yeah. Big boss Man, in a campaign to fuck with El Snow, abducts his dog, his chihuahua, who else Snow had introduced on television is kind of like his new thing to talk to instead of his mannequin head and his uh you know, crazy I don't understand how that's better, but okay, it's a frind of care that he would play. And he abducts the dog named Pepper, and

Al Snow begs and pleads to get the dog back. Boss Man promises to reunite him with Pepper if he comes to his hotel room to have a talk essentially, and as we'll hear and hear, in a bit of hospitality, boss Man offers up some food to Al Snow during the summit. Al Snow munches down and then he's he's informed that what he's just eaten is a dish prepared with Pepper's corpse, and then to get revenge, Ali Snow is recruiting a series of mean, crazy Rottweilers to eat Big boss Man Alive at Unforgiven

nineteen ninety nine. Essentially sounds like nothing can go wrong. Yeah, yeah, I guess al Snow is certainly sick of being asked about it, and he's got him for me, like answered down here he is talking to Hannibal, and I think one of the more representative examples of the men answers he's given to questions about this over the years. To set the stage, the table, if you will, including place Matt's silverware or whatever else you need

to consume Pepper. Here's how this works. Okay, every match has a gimmick. It's a focal point. It's what you build your story around. Understand Yes, Oh, I don't know what the fuck that gimmick was about. Dogs. When I was approached, I swear to God, may strike me dead where I stand. Vince Russo came to me because they had wanted to get rid of the head, which they couldn't because it was so over and Vince had seen Vince Russo had seen the movie so Sam where he talked,

heard voices from Michiua. He wanted to give me a chihuahua, told me the whole thing. It's great. My exact words. Please make sure you have highly trained animals. Why. Well, because the number one rule of entertainment is you don't work with animals or kids. They'll always outshine you upstagia, or they'll screw up the whole scene. So, and especially important, never work with animals or kids. So verbatim. The chihuahala highly trained, so that I could interact with it. Right, Okay, there's no

problem. Okay, show up to TV next week. There's tuala. There's a lady setting with the chuala. Oh you're a trainer. No, I'm his owner. Oh. They called a veterinarian clinic in Detroit and got a list of names with the people that owned the chuala. That's it. Immediately go to Vince Russo. I swear to you as I stand went to Vince Russo. You understand I said, trained animals, we'll get Well, it's just the chihuahua will be fine when we get to this thing with these dogs.

We have to have trained animals. Do you understand, Vince. Now I forget exactly how long how many months this story, but it went for a long time. Do you know how many times I reiterated that we needed trained animals, numerous times that we needed trained animals, numerous times that we needed trained animals, that we needed highly trained animals from the same kennel that could be led by one or two people verbally who stood outside the cage.

I cannot emphasize that enough. I show up, then, Charlotte. Notice that there are seven or eight dogs with seven or eight different people walk around. One has some obedience training. Now you have to understand the entire match. The entire angle is built around the focal point being these dogs. How

can you use these dogs? What can you do with these dogs? Please explain to me because I would like to hear somebody tell me what they expect you to do with them when they're out there urinating, defecating, and fornicating so much that couldn't even show them on TV. When the gimmick of the match is that you're inside a cage that's inside a cell that has like sharks surrounding it, dogs that you now need to get through and out of the

other side, and you can't even interact with the dogs. Curious, But now it's become a joke, and it's now all my responsibility, even though I had no control over the fact. Who's responsibility would you put that on? Obviously the companies, it's not mine. I would if they'd have told me go find it trained dogs. What do you think I'd have done?

I would have made sure that I found trained dogs that were highly trained with one person, because every each time I went and spoke to Rousseau, I said that Vince Mick made himself actually apologized to me for putting me in that situation. So now I get people to ask me about that all the time because it's such a joke when I had nothing to do with it. Now, granted, I again you in this the number one rule in wrestling is

you have to take shit and make sure all look. So it was my responsibility to try to make the best match I could, in spite of the fact that we couldn't even utilize the dogs. Tried brought a bunch of weapons out, tried to do everything I could to take the focus off of what we had literally sold the audience on for months to now in one night, go no, ignore all of that, watch all of this. Of course it doesn't work. And was the boss man as upset about it as you

are? Yeah? He was. It was embarrassing for both of us. It wasn't just embarrassing for me, it was embarrassing for him too. I mean, you know we're out, we're we're putting this ridiculs this situation. I mean, what do you do? So? You know? And people? I love it when people ask that question because it gives me an opportunity to at least tell my sign of it and to explain to people, because what people don't get is that And I don't know why any person with a

half an intell I should understand that. If if you make a murder mystery novel and then there's no body, there's no murder, what are you gonna tell a story about? Right? You know? It's it's it's kind of a bad situation. What do you think? I mean, I mean,

I get it to a degree, but I don't know. So he thought they were going to find dogs that someone can stand outside the cage and say attack and they'd bark, get them and they I mean, I mean sure, I mean, listen, there are trained dogs like that, and I I guess what, you know, I like, I guess what I What I kind of am really reacting to is him talking about how you know it wasn't his idea and it's like, well, no, ship, it's not your idea, but nobody thinks because it was your idea, right, People

People want to people want to know what it was like to be in it. That's where it that's where it fucking counts, you know, like that's where that's where all that ship is. Like, uh like, I want to know what is it? What did it feel like to be in there? What did it feel like to do all this ship? Like how did what did you? What did you and boss Man talk about? More sad thing isola like the spots you came up when that match sucked. Dude, I don't care if the fun I mean, if the dogs were there or

not. It's just not a very can you come shovel? It looks ridiculous. I mean, they're they're the it's just like kind of violent moment after a violent moment that there's no real story being told in the match. They work a couple of spots where like he's smacking boss Man's hands and he tries to climb the fence and the idea is if he can, you know, force him to break his grip, he's gonna fall down to this pit of dogs. But there are no dogs at his feet. They're not barking,

they're not nipping, they're they're preoccupied with each other. And like you said, there's six handlers for six rot whilers inside the cage. These people are total slobs, you know, for the and their shorts and massive fucking triple xl T shirts just like holding these rot wilds. Oh like they could give a ship. Stains everywhere. They do not care. And the dogs are obviously nervous because as he mentioned, they're urinating on the black mats. There.

There's a point where appears one's mounting another or had just mounted another. Yep that comes dripping off the fucking lipstick of the animal is the last thing, you know, the last thing they're doing wing is accentuating the idea that Big boss Man is in trouble. It's just like there is there, but nothing's happening. They bark at each other a couple of times, and that's it, but yeah, I mean, you know, he acknowledges that, you know, our responsibility was to make it as good as it could be.

And it's like, I don't know, I don't know what you were going for right first place. If everything went perfect, I'm not sure how good the match would have been considering where you were going with it. But that's fine, you know wherever. It's just it's just like the most you can't believe how bad it is. You're watching it unfold and you're like, every single decision everybody makes is the wrong one. Yes, every step they take is in the wrong direction. It's an absolutely just yeah. They they

they have no they have no sense of direction. Whatso we happen they catch a break? No sense of direction. Had you watched this before? Oh yeah, yeah, when I saw Life Watch and I watched it a couple of times, you know, I obviously taped it, and I'd watched a couple of times since then. What did you think of it when you first watched it? If you remember, Oh, I thought it was awful.

I thought it was awful from the beginning. It's like, you know, again, you have I don't know what my expectations were, but I have high expectations for any sort of cage match, let alone Hell in a Cell, right, which is funny because I don't think even by this point i'd seen either Infamous Hell and a Cell at this point, is that right? I don't think i'd even I don't think i'd seen Bad Blood. I'm trying

to remember did it come out? Did they have that? And I know I hadn't seen the the tape because I don't think I got my hands on the tape. Maybe I did, I don't know. I don't remember when I got my real I know that I went through a crazy ass phase and

we were in college. But I know beforehand I had tried to find the tapes and stuff, and I was very obsessed with getting all the pay per views from ninety seven, of course, But I don't recall when I first saw the original Helena Cell. And I know that I avoided watching, much like I avoided watching King of the Ring ninety three for the longest time because

Hogan lost. I avoided watching King of the Ring ninety eight because I knew Austin lost, and so yeah, but I had, so I don't I think the only Helen of Cell i'd probably seen at that point was the absolutely awful one with Undertaker and uh and and boss Man at WrestleMania. He had a hell of a year in the hell in the cell cage. No seriously, I mean, just what a weird year for boss Man altogether. Like he's complete psycho space run all together, that character black and all black.

Like, I really liked his ninety eight stuff was great. I thought the stuff like when he came back and it was like, holy shit, that's big boss Man, you know, because they had him under the mask for at first, and they had called him the boss Man for a while. I was like, holy shit. And then you know, but then ninety nine he just got weird and it was just like I don't understand what the fuck this is, you know, without without kind of being the protective services

of the corporation, I felt like he was a lost character. Yeah, and didn't really have any any any direction totally. And yeah, so I just I just remember having really really high expectations, not because the dogs, Like I really didn't realize how much the dogs would hurt the match. I was really intrigued by the idea of having a sell a cage inside of a cell I think they totally missed that and didn't pay enough attention to like the

level of expectation they were setting in nineteen ninety nine. Yeah, avertising cages like that. Yeah, yeah, I think you know, the thought is those cages are really only there as like a kennel, the best the best we can get to approximating a kennel. But it's like, no, you have when you put a cell up in nineteen ninety nine and WWF, you have to understand, like right, set. I feel like they totally didn't

think about that. There's going to be a real an exceptional amount of you know, listen, you expect someone to get tossed off something something like spectacular yep, because somebody in every single helen of sell some something has happened where somebody has done something completely bonkers and and that's the expectation. And yeah it did not. It was the most underwhelming helen of cell. Yeah, yeah, it really was. And I invite you to say goodbye to the blue

bars. Yeah? Is this the last time they do the blue bars altogether? Wow? Imagine that if you remember this fall for a niconomicy, the wrought Iron, the blue cage that matters. It's kind of fun that they had. It's it's actually weird that they had the blue cage to begin with.

Yeah, like in stock because because they were mostly outside of doing the outside of the the same Valentine's Day massacre where they had the black version of the the blue bars, they were doing the fence again like they used to do back in the you know, pre WrestleMania too, So it was weird that they that they would use that. I guess. I guess actually visually is probably smart because if you're using the hard camera angle, to have like

double fence would probably be very jarring on the home viewers. It's true too, they figured that out, they just didn't figure it out. The dog part of it. Says in this book that apparently they had found one person with the properly trained attack rottweiler and they were going to use that one for the planned finish of the match where he'd bite the Big boss Man, but

the owner pulled out because he was afraid of liability issues. Ah, there we go, which is something that he said to his book but never says when he tells the story verbally, which I found pretty interesting, but certainly on Sunday night. Heat Else now takes stock of what's arrived here in Charlotte to effectuate this angle, and it kind of gives us a little bit of a hint as to what's to come. And these are in heat Ow tonight. We got the kennel from hell Match. You got two men, yes,

you and the boss Man and six Rottwaller. You guys ready boys ready, huh were ready? Huh? Hey. I can't understand the words you're saying when you're all talking a one time calm down, you all get a chance. The boss Man, Hey kid, I tell you we're really living, loving to look at now excited. Nope, even had trouble getting in the bark on command there ad omen those who did a segment once on raw where he threw like one of those attack dummies that the police use for training,

yes, on the ground and and the dogs barely pads. Yeah, Like I mean, I don't know. I mean I agree with him that you know, you need to have some kind of a trained dog, but like we're I don't know if but you also that you need to have like a cinematically trained dog, you know, and even the dogs to do to bark but not to actually bite down. I mean, you're such a thing as a dog thing people for cinema. Well, well yeah, I mean, you know, you have dogs that are that are trained to do certain

acts. That's how dogs can do things that that you you you may not you know, if you if you were relying on a dog to just get a chance thing from uh, you know, a chance performance, you'd be there all day because no dog is gonna fucking you need a dog that has that no specific commands to do certain things. I don't know the ins and

outs of it. I don't want to act like I do. I just know that, you know, you see a lot of the times that you have, like in many behind the scenes features for films or for whatever, you hear about dog trainers, and you have these dog trainers who are working with certain dogs to teach them to do this and that, and the the reason they're doing this and that is, you know, so that so that the the performance can be as controlled as possible. I don't know if you

can get that many. I don't know how many of those kinds of dogs or situations are available in North Carolina, right, you know, I mean, I know, well, I mean it's and I in North Carolina was a hot spot for filming at the time. But again I don't know about

in regards to dogs, I don't know what that was like. But that's a big ask I think to expect to be able to get enough enough animals, and not only that, but you also then you also have to get dogs that are trained to do this shit in front of people, which is different than having dogs trained to do it in front of a film crew. You don't have ten fifteen thousand screaming fans during that distracting them exactly, you know, like it's a it's really I'm very surprised that they would go this

far with it because it's a no win situation. Really, I can't imagine any Again, the idea is there, but then when you really think about the execution of it, it's like, eh, yeah, you know, not really you ever one involved, but never really done anything like using animals and this to success. Yeah, that's interesting. Well, you know el Snow is looking for Pepper and uh, that is just a fun I'm looking for Salt personally. But he would flash like a missing wanted Pepper sign on

television with a phone number to call if you found it. The phone number was a Valvenus Is cell number is a rip. So Valvinus's phone was blowing up with people reporting a you know, Shohawa sightings or just you know, seeing the thing and thing. It would be funny to call him, and I guess, I guess Valvinus is actual family member. His mother was somewhat involved with like dog breeding, so he assumed all these calls were intended for his mother. You need to talk to my mom, right right, I

do remember that. But yeah, it comes down to boss Man inviting Al Snow into a hotel room for a heart to heart where he promised to reunite Al Snow with Pepper. And like I said, before, you know, before business can can be addressed, before the deal can be cut, boss Man wants to break some bread without Snow. He doesn't need any of miss huge platter of our heat in front of El Snow and El Snow. So we'll hook your dog just starting. Oh yeah, here's what it sounded like.

All right, you don't have to go the dogs. I'm having to clean up. He's going to look nice for great. He doesn't have any hair. Just have a seat. What I don't want to sit down. Ray, I went to a lot of trouble out. I'm gonna make sure I do the right thing here. He's the right thing. The right thing would be give me back my friend. Well, I am you just you just gotta trust me. You know I want the finest food. You don't understand what that dog means to me? Yeah, I had a dog when

I was a kid. I understand. I told you I can sympathize with you. But are you doing I don't want to eat, Ray, I want that. I didn't come here to eat. I'll just eat the food. Who let me do the right thing? Y? Wait? Thing, give me the dog? That's you know, he's on his way. The guy said he'd be bringing you. Just gotta trust me. I'm here, aren't right? If I eat the food? Will that make you happy? And then you can give me? Oh yes, you're giving me a chance

to do what's right. I'll do whatever you want. Just please just give me the dog, because you're supposed to give me the dog. Right. Oh, how you like it? El? Aren't you gonna have any Oh? Yeah, I'm gonna have a lot of it. How does it taste? I don't know. It's not that cook at yourself, Uncle Harry, a restaurant going out in Boston cooked it. But will you do me a saving Try not to get one of them funny Paul stuck in your teeth.

That's right now, one hundred percent grade a pepper. What's the matter else? Oh, you don't like pepper. You don't like the way pepper taste. You don't like the white pepper looks. Huh, you don't like pepper. What's the matter with you? Boy? You don't like the white pepper taste, you don't like no way to take an elevator today? You're gonna eat every damp fight of I told you you pit me again. I was gonna stand and straight your hand. You understand men, You understand me what

this is all about. This is hardcore. Huh. You can damn well man boot hardcore all the way. I told you Pepper was gonna live with you for the rent of his house unless you go to the poop shooters. Understand me. I am hardcore. Pepper's a little bit and you're a dull son of a bitch. That's what hardcore is all about. Can you dog

that? Yeah? It tastes like chicken stupid. It's so like for people that don't know they did this stuff back then, Man, yeah, I know, I can't help but put myself in their shoes and just be what the fuck is going on? Like who greenlit this? To what end? Like? Like who thought this was a good fucking idea? Like yeah, you know what, this is good. Let's let's you know what. Let's look we've got We've had abortion, We've had uh you know, Oh,

this is great fiction. Crucifixion, induction, yeah, abduction, we've had uh you know in uh implied rape, harassment, sexual harassment, sexual Yeah, this is great. Ship pal, I mean, there's a point. It's it's this big hunk and platter of what looks to be like Chinese chicken, like a like a old chicken chow mane or something. And after out takes his bites at this table that Big Boss Mini set up in this hotel room, there's two beds behind them, you like that like nineteen ninety nine,

Like oh yeah, like green and maroon colored bed sheets. Yes, And when he starts beating ol Snow's ass, now it's coughing up the food. The plate of chicken ends up spilling onto the bed and I just it's I am so grossed out by like the thought of those imagine just the expression of the women who like have to clean that up. And like the cool sheet, you know, like that, you know it has like that sheen

to it, almost like a shine. And on top of that sheet, that fluffy comforter sheet woul like that that slight like film to it, to the exterior lands like soupy slash gooey like chicken eye. On top of the sheet falls a bunch of sheet. Oh, you're right, and then it falls on the floor. Al is doing his best to make it sound like he's coughing up the dog. I have to hit it to out. He does react like one would if you just found out you ate your own dog.

He does try to react in a way that isn't like absurdly cartoonish, but it's it's a hopeless idea. A couple of things, really is Uncle Harry cooked it? What was what was mister Fuji's real first name? It's Harry, right, And what what what was one of the the meanest spirited ribs that mister Fuji would pull? Well, he put he put he put dog ship in the well he'd find ways to feed stray dogs to guests, oh and tell them about it afterwards, or tell others about it afterwards.

Well, I remember, yeah, because he did something with with Professor Tanaka he in the in the in the meatballs or something like that. Remember, like ID told this Uncle Harry and Boston cooked it Uncle Harry like like, also, dude, that's okay. So so you're gonna kill a stray dog, a poor helpless animal, all right, You're going to kill an animal, so you can do a prank because would be funny if someone ate it.

Be funny if someone ate a poor animal. I don't understand what the problem is, you know, I don't get why wrestling has the reputation does. I really don't. That's not hilarious, all right, of course, And the head of the cannel from hell Al Snow pays a visit to Pepper's grave to let everybody know that he's doing this for the dearly departed. And you better believe that Big Boss Man isn't done making his gestures and statements as

well. And we are were are our cameras now it looks like there's got to be something that was shot earlier today it's daytime. That's a cemetery for sure. Pepper. I'm sorry that we couldn't put you in the real graveyard. People wouldn't let me. We're gonna call the police. At least I can finally give you a proper burial now that you're suffering, is it in I hope you rest in peace. Oh my gosh, I let you in in life, but I'm not gonna let you down in death. Come up

forgiving. We're gonna make sure that boss Man pays. He's gonna burn in hell. I can't believe that he is gonna pay for what he's done to you, Pepper. Pepper's been buried. The remains of Pepper have been buried earlier today. Folks are told that we cannot. This will happen later later in the day. We're told we cannot because the distaste relact that the boss Man is doing here. He's urinating on the grave of Pepper. This is all that's what happened himself. And I know that the potage is even the

King Ding King Kanging, Hang Hanging Ming King Danging. I think that's when he was on his way to the ring to get a picture of of like a kool Aid smashed in his face for no reason by hardcore Holly, busting his eye open tremendously, which accounts for a Big Bossman having a swollen eye when he makes his way. Interesting, that's very funny. I didn't know

that. Oh, it's just such a stiff shot. And they just the little rejoinder there at the end, he's urinating on the grave, like the man shows up and pisses on the grave after U. I mean, so extra. I mean, how different is that than fucking h hooking up Big Show's father's casket to a car. Fuck was in this guy's mind? Back? Oh? Man? What seriously? And also the fact that that Clippy calls that that alcohols boss Man Ray, like, just knock it off,

you fucking more pure papper. Such good stuff. I can't. I can't with these fucking idiots sometimes like this is it's so funny, like they're they're, they're you you. I feel like oftentimes when it comes to the attitude era are, our mind is brainwashed by the great stuff that happened, you know, the really money fuse. Like you know, you think of the Vince mcmn stuff, you think of you know, you think of guys like like Austin and Triple H and the Rock and and Undertaker and and Foley and

all these guys in there in their prime. But then when it's like you kind of take two steps below those guys and it's like most of it is garbage, total, Like most of it is Awful's dick off, all right? Right? Or you get what if a porn star was a wrestler and you double on tundra all the time? What if Mark Henry was a was a sectional sexual dynamo, or what if he encountered a transvestite? Or what if god, oh my god, it's just so why well, even Russo

can't defend this one. This is him with Chris van Vliet. The ones that you know really stand out to me, and it really is because I didn't think them through. Bro. And let me say this, Chris, I'd rather try something new than repeat a match we've seen a billion times before. That's how I am. I'd rather try something new than just go back to the well for a million times. Bro. The dog kennel from Hell's probably number one. And I'll tell you why, Chris, I swear this

is a god honest truth. I think of the concept because the boss Man al story revolved around the little dog Pepper. Okay, so I thought of the concept. But in my head, in my head, they're attack dogs, you know, they're they're police dogs. The teeth a rout and saliva is coming out and they're sliver that's the picture in my head. So now, Bro, I'm there at the building and they bring the dogs in and

Van's hearing the dogs for the master blah. But I walk over to look at the dogs, and Bro, the first dog licked my hand and I'm like, Bro, I never I never thought of what if they're not attack dogs? What if they're pets? You know what I'm saying. Like, and that's exactly what happened. Bro, these were the lamest, laziest doing a dog adoption segment. Yeah, Bro, I swear to God and Bro and like I said, and blame myself for that because I never took that

into consideration. I'm literally convinced these are gonna be a tack dogs. So since they weren't, that actually sucked. Like okay, but also like, then did you who hired the dogs? You know? Yeah, I don't know. I mean it says who hired the dogs? Because to me,

that's part of the problem. Yeah, you know, if w TV studio, because if you have like someone who fucking actually you know, like, oh yeah, we need attack dogs, like you don't just go to fucking call you know who have dogs for a says in his book that he called Stewart Sue Suly at the w Steer. I said, there are a bunch of different dogs here. She replied, Yeah, we called around the local vets for them this morning. Those are the only rottweilers we could find.

Well, right, you don't call around the fucking vets. Sue actress by the way, who worked there for like forty years and just gotten fucking shit canned. I mean, because that's part of the problem is you don't. You don't look for that. You you you need to call you know, you gotta call an entertainment dog pat right, And that's that's leg what they weren't willing to do. I think that's Ali Snow's whole point. It's like,

we know this is where this is going. Can you please put in the time to make sure we get dogs that we can be confident in trained to do what we need them. And they didn't. They just did what they would do if they set up TV catch two days ago, same way they'd source a you know, a hope for the Godfather. Really call the local strip club who wants to be on TV? You know? Or find a bar for a barroom brawl. Call a bar so who's uh you know, who wants their bar on TV? Let us, you know, smash

it up and then pay you to fix it. Just wacky, just wacky shit. Man. Now, I don't know where this air to what they did this for, but there is a version of this match that Mick Foley and Kevin Kelly did comedic voiceover commentary for. Really. Yeah, it was on some WWDVD. I don't know if it was like Worst Matches or Cage Matches or something whatever it was, but it's pretty uh used to do alternate DVD alternate commentary tracks for matches. I mean, wasn't wasn't SummerSlam many nine?

The first DVD release WrestleMania fifteen was I believe? Oh okay, well, either way they were doing DVD releases. Maybe it was on the DVD release of Unforgiving Anything. Yeah, it's presented as not as just a track standalone track, but fully actually does like a stand up in studio, like pitching to it. But maybe maybe it was. I'm not sure it's out there, but I'm not sure what compilation it belongs to. And we talked about it. You know, it's like I got to know where the food

came from that snow eats. Yeah, I mean food food food like uh are origin? Origin? Yeah? Origin and help is crucial, I think so. And I think actually especially in Boston exactly, we know they tape this in Boston. We know where all the boys go when they come to tape television in Boston. It's the Kowloon. And I gotta I gotta think

it kind of looks like a platter of kloon to me. I don't know about you, but yeah, yeah, I mean look yeah, I mean I don't know if i'd necessarily say that it's Kowloon, but it definitely makes What are the odds that it's actually klloon? Right, that'd be freaking hilarious. I mean, we're like the only podcast on planet Earth that would like pay money to know if it's actually klloon. Yeah, i'd pay I pay about one hundred dollars. Hi JP. This is former WWE superstar Al Snow

and star of Netflix's docu series Wrestlers. Uh. I appreciate you being a fan. Can't thank you enough for doing that being a fan, because if it wasn't for you being a fan, I wouldn't have a job. And to answer your question, when I ate pepper, the actual food was chicken from Kowlows, and there was also some jumming noodles and creamed green beans and a little bit of rice, and there was something else I can't remember what it was mixed in to make it all look like Vomit tasted absolutely horrible.

I actually did throw up for real after I got done throwing that up, faking throwing that up. It was really really gross, almost as bad as when bloss Man fed me real dog food when we were doing the whole story building up to it. And yeah, that shout out to Uncle Harry was a, you know, a little tribute to mister Fuji, as the angle was based on a true story where mister Fuji hated his neighbor and hated his neighbor's dog because his dog, the dog would always bark and never shut up.

So one day he stole the dog while the neighbor was at work, and literally waited a week or two, cooked the dog and fed it to the neighbor as a condolence dinner. And he was pretty pretty sick. So but yeah, the whole angle was based off of that story of mister Fuji. So anyways, I hope you uh this answered to questions, and hey, take care and hopefully I'll meet you somewhere down the road if I'm doing an appearance or something near, you'll come out and say Hi, don't be

shy, and again thank you for being a fan. I'll talk to you some bye. I mean, the guy for a fucking galout? What was good? Is he using? Is he using Caine's voice vibe? Yeah? What did what happened to his voice? He might whats gootten? Like surgery on his lymph nodes or something that he knows lymph nodes is larynx or something. Yeah, I mean what was your reaction when he said kwloon? You were the first to see it? I mean, I, I you know what, you know what's funny? So I get that you noticed that it

comes in and I started watching it. I told you before how awkward I those things are and I can't I can't watch the video because it's like, I feel like they really are talking to me because they call me up my name and like it's just so, it's so I get so self conscious. So I have it. I'm on my laptop and I have it playing on my phone and then honestly, I just stopped it after he said kowloon.

I didn't listen to the whole thing. I just realized that I never because I was like, I stopped it and I just immediately texted the link to you. Yeah, it does qualify as an emergency. Yeah. I was like, I was like, holy shit, like this is not even you know, and I never and I just dawned on me. I did not listen to the whole thing. So I didn't even I didn't even follow up with the Fuji, the Fuji inquiry, you're gonna take it home? On his offer to go say hi next time you're in the same room, Uh

yeah, sure. You look at you like he looked at me when I asked him when I said, don't heal on me? And he said, are you hurt? He's gonna he wants to meet you, So we go, what the fuck kind of cameo? Request was that he'll he'll do that. I'll say, hey, I got some dog from Kowloon. Imagine that. Just put like a platter of chicken chow mane in front of him. Look familiar. Al say, I've got some lemon pepper chicken from about that.

I mean that he actually threw up because they mixed in the creamed green beans in there. I guess, yeah, that must have been gross. I guess the green beans and stuff. But I was like, really, is like everything tasted that bad? I guess I guess it would, but I don't know. I was kind of like, sounds like a good dinner to me. But yeah, that's around. Are you gonna finish this? You're good. If you're okay with I'll take it off your hands gladly put

in my belly. Here's some highlights. And this is kind of you know, of course, Mick Fuley just made it a career of making fun of Al Snow. I mean, yes, you know, uh, someone said, uh at some point we may have seen Al Snow's final match, and he goes, I hope so, and he does like stuff like that, constantly mocking Al Snow. We're having bad matches, and this is the ultimate

bait for him. This is the ultimate thing that he can hold up that all can't say anything about and just get mad about, which is pretty funny. It's pretty funny how pissed off Al Snow gets at Mick making fun of his matches and he can't do anything about it. So here's a here's here's Mick taking the ultimate bait. Ladies, gentlemen, what you're about to see. It's true. I've got to include it Al Snow and the big boss Man that Tente from Hell for what happened to Pepper. I'm sure Al Snow

would love to get his hands on the boss Man even more. But you know what, these dogs don't know right from wrong. They didn't go to school, they didn't attend any type of obedience classes. If Al Snow is in being harm's way, those dogs could very easily by Wait a minute, I believe one of the dogs has just relieved himself on the way inside. Yes, indeed, oh my god, one of the dogs scenting actual spraying in there, marking his territory. Mick, he knows that this is his

home, and indeed the outside of that really is their territory. It's no man's land. It's Rottweiler land. You hear the dogs barking away boy, dangerous territory. Buss Man just a few feet away from being chalked and bitten. His legs could be ripped. He could be left with just stumps. Following this, you hear those barks, Kevin Kelly, they are not happy barks. House snow to get a great chance. Tagging gives me tempting faith

as he struggles to battle the boss Man on his own term. One of our cameramen earlier on this afternoon attempted to wear a pork chopped necklace around the ring side. He holds it dwn something close a personal shot with the dog, but our director Kerwin Silphie said no, don't do it. These dogs are too dangerous. Knee right to the forehead. It appears as if the handlers of the Rothwiler pack on the outside of the ring are having a difficult

time containing these dogs. I mean, could you imagine what would wait a minute, Mick gives it. Oh my, he's wearing a crimson mask, Devin Delly. The blood blows such that alf snows eyesight. Maybe, Oh my goodness, he's been busted wide open. He's been lacerated and he's still standing. Tall. Al Snow is standing Tall. Devils are turned. Snow is on the loads. Snow is on the loads some kind of industrial strength live. Oh my goodness, Hell no, no dury like Al Snow.

Scorn Al Snow. The button out, flowing down the boss Man's skull. Hols Snow digging that boast, that barbed wire post. This is the skull of boss Man. He's fighting back for everyone who's ever been put down. Al Snow's striking a blow for anybody who's ony ever accidentally eating their dogs for dinner. Al Snow as a man possessed right from wrong. They only wait a minute. It appears as it it appears as if one of the dogs is taking a superior position, shall we say, straps with a young female

rottweiler. Oh my god, that it's a pay per view matchup Kevin Kelly, because if this match were to be broadcast over public airwave, there is a chance that the WWF as we know it would not exist. It's that brutal, it's that devastating, it is that controversial. It's the kettle from out and we're looking out the line. He scoops, he scars. Boss Man just cluvers Hal Snow again. Oh my goodness, they're cracking of steel

against human skull. And Kevin, let me tell you from experience, I know when steel comes up against human skull, it's the steal that wins. Snow is going to make his way outside of this cage. But again, Now has to be wary this man sadistic pack. They have no conscious. A man sadistic pack of ratt wellers is outside the ring. Bossman also going outside. And if indeed there was meeting taking place, Devin Kelly, these are not human beings. They don't sit back and smoke a cigarette. After

the cardinal process. They get vicious, they get mad, they get animalistic. That's why they call him honible. And now Al Snow is attempting to try to find a way outside the door. But Boss Man, I think, has found the best path, and that's freeing himself from the hall. Like Plain Snow is out, snow Dollar is out. He's got a Devin Kelly the podcast Dating Kelly Disappointed Massage not the big boss Man. But there's

your winner, there's your winner. How Snowe has done it the face of a winner and the face of a loser there on the Big boss Man the what about these Rottweilers. That's a smile, a smile of satisfaction. Hal Snow will be filling this match the next morning, maybe for several mornings, maybe never to be the same. But right now that is a smile of victory. Well, now the Big boss Man realizes that defeat is his as the dogs are wanting to get laymen. The dogs are actually beginning to smile

and tight on another, but the boss Man is still trapped. Can he make his way out? I got sharp with the bigger story here, Kevin. I think he'll concur. Look at that pile of you're in there in the corner. It's not just in the roll snow, it's about the boss man too. And these beans are on their feet boding that for the both men, because they gave you everything they had in their body, their minds,

and their souls. To Kevin, I think you'll concur. We may never see anything like it at well, we didn't, and that's a good thing. Pilot Urine in the corner, what's going on here? What happened? That's funny, It's very funny. Uh, you know, commentary track. But you enjoy it. I did. I did. That's that's good ship. But like what a what a fucking I you know? You know again this is this is to me, this is also an element of real vintage Russo in a bad way, which is him thinking it's gonna be like

him thinking he's going to be able to control an uncontrollable situation. And they were so high end as far as like pulling off special effects that I can almost understand where he would get the idea that if he can see it in his mind, it'll kind of look like that on television. But he was spoiled to death by them in that regard, Like you know, the zamboni and the fucking beer truck and the Yeah, but again think about like that. But but you know what, think about it like that those are all

things that you can control. Yeah, I know, you know you you were driving the zamboni, driving the beer truck. A dog is an animal that has its own mind and isn't going to do what you want per se. Maybe it will, but it's a good chance it won't. In this it's like to me kind of expecting to have to be able to plan the outcome or plan, the result is no different than the fucking brawl for all. And to that point, if you're gonna have a shoot thing, you

know totally yeah, that's a great corollary is the brawl for all. It's like you can't control what the dogs are going to do. You also can't control what the wrestler is going to do if you let them shoot for each other, right, which is fine with him because he's a chaos agent.

Whereas you have a you know, Jim Cornett, as we highlighted a on a recent Dark Side of the Ring on Heard podcast, contrasting all that Cornett said to Dark Side cameras with the years and ald that Russo said about Cornett vice versa the Dark Side cameras that that's really the that's that's ground zero for the clashes in philosophy there as Steve Williams each shit and nothing whatsoever is done

with bart Gunn but mmm. To round out the psychological profile of one Vince Russo, which is always a necessary part of diligence on an attitude or at WWF show, we turned to this slipper from this book about kind of losing his grip on the WWF. A few days prior to my last meeting with Vince, I had just finished writing Ron SmackDown when I called Steve Austin to go over the script. At the time, Austin had a boo hoo, a boo boo boo bardon me, had a boo boo and claimed he couldn't

do certain things whatever. So I called Stephen home and he's telling me he can't do what I had written because he was quote unquote hurt. Meanwhile, I could hear him with his hunting buddies, drinking and having a good time. Okay, when when was when was this book written? Oh? Good question. I think two thousand and two it came out maybe three. Oh really that okay, well that explains that then, okay them like you know, you hear him, he would not say the shit on when he's a

guest on Austin's power after that, Yeah, exactly. So I'm telling you, man, it's so important to not just take the most recent interaction between two wrestlers to get the real story. Oh yeah, because they become friends because they see that they're willing to talk shit about each other in public. So it's time to get this guy you know what I mean, that's the whole point, right, Well, it's it's that, and then also I feel like part of that is on a different end. It's also you know,

you've also you're removed from the situation. Now you're not like it's not all bottled up. It's like it's been twenty years, so you can kind of, you know, you can look at it differently. That thing that's simmered under the surface, that had the tension, has now been aired and now on the other side, right right, there's nothing that's being left unsaid between you two. Right, Okay, you're making somewhere about five million dollars a year russo rites you're hurt, so you can't perform on TV, but

you're well enough to be out drinking and playing Ted Nugent. It was just a small incident. It had happened a million times before, but this time it pushed me off the deep end. Awesome. Yeah, there's your special ref for the six pack challenge that's in the ring outside the building. A contingent of WWF officials boss are striking at Unforgiven nineteen ninety nine, are they

not? I don't your memories about this tremendous piece of business. Nope, I honestly I didn't remember it until watching it, and I was like, oh, oh, I vaguely remember this was happening vaguely, Yeah, vaguely it was. They were getting sick of wrestlers beating the shit out of them,

so they struck for better working conditions. Earl Heavner says in his book that because he was kind of the lead ref and and the settlement to the strike involved the love and the officials to hit back if they were attacked. Yeah, put him in the position of being like an attacking wrestler and thus a candidate to be put into the New Mercy video game. Where you confirmed for me when we were talking before, Earl Hebner is playable. I forgot

about that. Yeah he is. He is playable, I I But it's not like he's the only playable uh, you know, non wrestling character like I never I mean, he seems to say, what if not for the strike angle, he wouldn't have been put in the game. I don't think so. Why would j R. Be in the game, Why would King be Why would Patter I mean, I guess Patterson and uh and Brisco and stuff. But like they wrestled, but Paul Beharr is in the fucking game, like and you get the you know, women in the game that weren't

wrestlers. It's like I don't understand his now ever the game, like I never did, you know, that's the good. I never did that. But like you know, these days, you can't like you can't wrestle as as Bobby Heenan. He's there as a manager, but you can't actually go in and wrestle. But in that game, everyone was able. You could have matches with fucking you know Jr. And a Hoe, Right, that's

right, I remember that very interesting. So here is Jimmy corderis played the role of the Canadian ref of the one who had just gotten married and couldn't afford to go on strike because he needed the money. And so he quote unquote crosses the picket line and refs matches on this show, on this show. And this is just a bit of a taste of how they played it

up. And the protest continues outside the Charlotte Coliseum. Sandy Bywar Senior ww OF official Earl Hebner Earl, this strike is really beginning to wear on. Has there been any talks between your side and WWS management. No, it hasn't. And I'll tell you what. We're out there, we're trying to do our jobs and we're not punching bags for the boy to take the frustration out on us. And I tell we'll guarantee some sort of safety and respect

for althority we were remain on strike. Well, thanks, scare refs be aware. Jim Corderis, we just saw your colleagues outside protesting. Why did you decide to be the one to cross the picket line. Well, first of all, Eliine, I fully support my colleagues and their protests. I mean, we have been thrown around quite a bit lately, and in my particular case, I just recently got married and I cannot afford to not be

working right now. Well, later on tonight in the six Pack Challenge, you're going to be the referee, but stone cold Steve Austin is going to be the main enforcer and he's going to be looking over your shoulder. How do you feel about that? Quite honestly, I'm nervous as hell. Yeah, I'm sure that's for cowering and fear that these attitudinal wrestlers who'd beat the shit out of them, and that would happen, But two courses came.

God, when the time came during Unforgiven nineteen ninety nine for the striking referees to attack the scat refs, wasn't stone cold Steve Austin. He had to worry about laying him in. Oh's a passage, Boss that I just sent to you, Yep, from Jim Corderis's book The Three Count, which I would recommend checking out. My life than stripes as a WW referee. One of the things I get asked about a lot is my time as a quote

scab referee. Let me start from the beginning. Prior to getting married, I spoke with Jim Ross about taking time off for my honeymoon Jr. Who was head of Talent Relations at the time, was my direct boss for my refereeing duties. Steve Taylor was the ring crew boss, and I had to get clearing from him as well. Why did the fucking ring crew boss have anything to do with the referees, I don't know. I guess what's one

point on them? I don't know. It's a good question, but if they're part of the ring crew, they got nothing to do with In ring talent and the ring crew they set up. They set up the ring. I think the refs do that, so I think the refs are concerned. Okay, Yeah, I see okay, And I had a clean from him as well. They were both very receptive to the request and gave me two weeks off. They told me to relax and enjoy my time off. So in September nineteen ninety nine, I married my wife, Audra and Toronto.

We spent two amazing weeks in Spain on our honeymoon. Even more even more to me was that I wasn't thinking about wrestling, no TV, no Internet. I was wrestling free for the whole trip. When I returned to work, I had no idea about what had transpired while I was away. Apparently all the other referees had gone on quote strike and protests of being abused and

taken for granted by the wrestlers. As soon as I arrived at the arena of the jokes began, my coworkers were greeting me with cries of welcome back, followed by quote why are you here? Aren't you on strike? Confused, I went into the production office to get to the bottom of this. This is where I learned about the most recent storyline involving all the regular w

referees. Tom Pritcheard, Harvey Wiblman and Steve Lombardi were handling the referee chores while the labor dispute was ongoing, not for long, as a brief exchange between Triple H and me sparked a chain of events that would put me in the forefront of this angle as far as the refs were concerned. Here's how it happened. As I was walking down the hall towards catering, I bumped into a Hunter and he said, Hey, Corduroy, welcome back. Oh god, Cordery was his nickname for me. Too bad. You're out of

a job with this strike. Like, are they actually talking about this like it's a real strike. I think he's just trying to be funny. Oh all right, I guess you picked a bad time to come back. Then he chuckled at the joke. I laughed and replied, Yeah, wouldn't it be funny if when they show the other refts picketing outside the arena? I came strolling up, unaware of the strike and asked, what's going on? Hunter look interested interested? So I can look at this ninety nine he's going

a Hunter, and Hunter is giving yeah fascinating Yeah, yep. So I continued the other refts explain the situation. I tell them I just got married and can't afford to go on strike and try to walk into the building. Just then the rest stopped me and beat me with their signs, and the next time they show the striking refs, I'm looking a little worse for wear,

and I've reluctantly joined the rest of them in protest. After hearing me out and finding my little scenario funny, Hunter turned to JR, who was walking down the same hall, and said to him, Hey, JR, listen to this idea. DA corneris has He then repeated the scene I had just told him today. Are who thought there was something there that could be used on TV? Then they both said they would talk to me later and walked off. I wasn't sure where this was leading, but a storyline idea

had been sparked by me. Later on that day, I was filled in on the newest development and the referee strike. I would be the only regular referee to cross the picket line and would continue to officiate matches much to the ire of my compatriots. This would go on for a week or two, with everything coming to a head at the unforgiven pay per view event. I

would referee as if nothing was amiss. The main event of the pay per view was a six pack Challenge match for the w Championship featuring Triple h mcfoley the British Bulldog came the Rock and the Big Show. I would be the assigned official for the match, and Stone Cold Steve Austin Wood was designated the special enforcer on the outside, keeping an eye on the proceedings. What was even cooler was that I got to do my first interview on Sunday night heap

right before the pay per view. Lillie and Garcia asked me why I'd enjoined my fellow refs and and strike with them, and how I felt about refing the six pack Challenge. That one minute bit made me more nervous than being in the ring in front of seventy thousand people. This was different because when you are a referee in a match, you are not the focus of the match. The referee is important, but he is invisible in the ring. My explaining why I was not out there picketing with the rest of them made

me appreciate the good talkers that that much more than I already did. It was now match time and all was going smoothly. Stone Cold was keeping a careful eye on the match from the announcer's table while sipping a Steve Weiser. The six men in the match were giving their all as the live crowd was very much into the match. As the match was winding down, the striking referees entered the arena, walked down the ringside, and began to berate yours

truly. I was somewhat distracted by the shouting, but kept my composure and refed on. After a flurry of activity, Big Show gave Mick Foley a choke slam and covered him in a pin attempt. Like any good referee would, I slid into position and began to count. The crowd counted along one, two. Before I could hit the canvas for a three count, the striking referees grabbed my legs and dragged me out of the ring. An argument ensued, then suddenly, then an argument ensued. Then suddenly, Earl Hadner

threw a punch at me. It was a working punch, but I think Earl was being a little too nice because the blow landed squarely on my chest and nowhere near my face. I bumped anyways, as the remaining officials pummeled me while I was on the ground. It really wasn't that bad until one referee decided to go into business for himself by kicking me as hard as he could in the back, in the butt and even dropping down and punching me

in the groin area. I was, I think this is always in this moment, yep, exactly like for this bizarre, like D level storyline. You know, I was genuinely hurting all from one individual. None of the other punches are kicks thrown by the other refs even registered. I didn't know at the time who the culprit was, but I was going to find out. In the meantime, Stone Cold came to my defense and beat up the

refs who took out their frustration on me. Austin cleaned house. As they say, Oh he went fucking he went nuts on the referees like like I can my eyes. It's actually you know, I was actually kind of alarmed. I get how violent he was with them, like just throwing them and shit and it's like Holy God like, almost as if he resented the storyline, you know it's and took over for me as the official of the match.

The next day, we were in Greensboro, North Carolina for Monday Night Raw, as his customary, the day after a pay per view, the tape of the previous night's event was available for viewing. I couldn't wait to check out the footage to see who the culprit was who had left me bruise and hurting. I popped in the tape and fast forward to the moment in question. There he was busted. Playing it back, I was more surprised

that mike Kiyota didn't break his foot from kicking me so hard. At one point, he was kicking so hard that he nearly fell over as he wailed away. I knew right there and then that a quote receipt was coming his way. I wasn't sure when, but one was coming. That night's Raw proved to be a challenging one for me. Before the show, all the referees were called in a Vince's office. We were not in any kind of trouble or anything like that. We were shooting a pre tape segment for the

show. The premise of the pre tape was that mister McMahon had settled the dispute between the striking referees and the talent. After the first take, Vince looked at me and said to writer, Vince Russo didn't get beat up by all the other ref last night. He doesn't look beat up to me. Shit. Russo said that we didn't have time to alter my appearance to look beat up. The solution they decided was to put my left arm in a sling that was suggested by Vince McMahon and would end up being the extent of

my injuries. I guess you thought it would be funny to have me referee a match on Raw that night. While in the ring in the sling, I was assigned to d Loo Brown versus Chaz and when they found out I was wearing a sling on my arm, they changed up the match a little bit. Suddenly there were many more pin attempts at it, which meant I would have to get up and down on them freaking, oh my god, and quickly, all the while selling my left arm. They were getting such

a kick out of watching me struggle to get up and down. They were almost laughing during the match. They later confessed me that they purposely added those extra near falls as a rib on me, But the real rib had begun a few hours earlier, when mister McMahon had me wear that damn thing they all got me on this night. But that's all right. I don't mind harmless pranks being played on me, and if and if can make people laugh

in the process, that makes it even more worth a minor inconvenience. Before I before I forget to mention it, I did get Keyota back a few months later. It was during one night raw. All the referees had to run down to the ring to break up a brawl. When we got the queue to go to the ring, I let the other refs go first through the curtain and then strategically positioned myself behind Keyota as we ran down to the ring. Once we got to the point of no return, I made my

move. Everything had to be timed just right. The second Mike was about to dive under the bottom rope and enter the ring in dramatic fashion, I gave him a little nudge from behind and sent him crashing chest first into the side of the ring. Not only was I laughing at this point, but one of the camera men found humor as well. Kyota was so mad and he shot me the dirtiest look imaginable. Didn't bother me in the lease I got. I got me some payback for unforgiven. Now I was a happy

camper. That's really fucking funny. What a saga. Yep, Like these guys, they had their own little world, these refs, of course, yeah, they you know, like it's he's pissed at my Kyota. It's awesome. Yeah, yeah, I didn't see anywhere and Mike Yota does like a mailbag thing for Radfrey shows. I haven't seen him ever address this, but oh, I bet he's embarrassed. Love to ask him about you know,

why he decided to go so hard on Jimmy Cord Harris. And he sits there and like, no, I don't want to and that be the most that would be the most money answer he could possibly give. Yeah, oh seriously, no, not going there. But not going there, bro, not taking that creative brother. Imagine you're doing this angle and he's kicking the ship out of your ribs and your your job is to lay there and not fight back. Yeah. But Austin. But Austin comes down, he

is swinging. Oh my god, he is ripping them apart. Such a tough night at the office, Like he is just an absolute bitch, killing him, killing him. It's Austin. Man. He was so awesome. He was so he was so great, he was so great. Ah Jerich Jericho, Oh boy, oh boy, here we go. This is his

first yes coming at Summer Slam, had done a promo. Oh of course, had the most impactful debut ever on the August second, nineteen ninety nine Raun Chicago and the Countdown of the Millennium expired while The Rock was in the ring cutting of promo, and Jericho memorably makes his debut with the music and everything debuting and cuts a great promo and has a great back and forth with

the Rock on the stick. Definitely big things foretold. And do you know that Vince Russo on the October fifth, I think or fourth Raw that he booked before he skipped down Chris Jericho to go Over the Rock Clean in the minivent read with over the Rock at least I don't know about Clean. Wow,

that's wild. And according to Russo, they kept everything about that episode of raw except Jericho beating the Rock, of course, And they said they decided to wait two years to get the Rock, to get Chris jerichot to where he would have been had he beat the Rock that night. But this is a clash. This is something they lost when Rosso left, the ability or the interest in leaning into somebody that wasn't of their own creation. Russo

is a little more open minded to that. Yes, And you can tell by the way Jericho was booked in a few weeks Russo was there that Jericho was presented much more strongly, somebody that was a threat in addition to being hilarious. And I don't know, it was kind of like just picking up where left off with the w CW Goofball character, something that WF wasn't really keen to lean into or replicate, but the Russo clearly liked a lot.

What do you remember about Jericho in these earliest days, feuding with like oh Shamrock and XBOC. Yeah. I don't really remember Curtis Hughes in his corner. I remember, I remember mister Hughes. I really don't remember much else. Oh yeah, oh my god. Yeah, absolutely to me, that was one of the uh you know, I was always always in favor of

some kind of one opsmanship on w W grabbing a WW guy. Yeah yeah, yep, always a fan of that, and this was no difference to it's a guy that The key thing here, as we've talked about, is that they're signaling to everyone in a WCW that's someone that is you know, way under pushed can come over here and be you know, share shared the stage with the Rock and your first night in yet this kind of production support behind making your debut of Massive. Yeah, it was fucking money. It

was amazing. It was and it's like pretty soon ben Wa, Malenko, Saturn, Guerrero, uh and so many others are are coming over. The whole company would be bought eventually, but the signal was sent, you know, it's like we're in, We're we're open for business. Yeah, and if taking you away from them can hurt them, we will do it.

And Jericho, but he comes in with a lot of habits that were learned working internationally in the Rings of Mexico and Japan and w CW, which pretty much let him wrestle it and let everybody else from the Cruiserweight division wrestle as they did or would in Mexico and Japan without really insisting on a house style that WWF had, you know, developed over the years, finds himself a

fish out of water in those early days. This indeed a weird deal where Rock was supposed to wrestle Big but Man on the House show in August twenty first in Winnipeg, which of course is Chris Jericho's hometown, but due to a flight complications, the Rock couldn't make the flight from Miami. So in fact, Chris Jericho's first WWF match was the show in Winnipeg against the Big boss Man and like a nightstick match, it wasn't on television, but he

said didn't go particularly well. But here is here's him talking to xbox xpock at a podcast that was on Jericho's network for a while. Jericho guested on the show, and here they kind of laid bare what the backstage was like, the politicking was like around this new cat, Chris Jericho. And you know whether he was running headlong into this system of like, oh he's no

good, you know how it is? Right? Yeah, Shan Waltman's the barometer or the guy that he comes through the curtain and says Shane Douglas. It's not going to work, and pretty soon the whole click hates the guy was Chris Jericho to meet the same fate. Anyways, I went in and I and I complained to you, or complained to Vince and Shane about you, and apparently they like, I didn't know that, like that, Vince ripped you a new one about that, and I'm sorry about that, Chris,

that was all my fault. Well, just to kind of take the pictures for everyone listening, when I came into WWE, it's hard for people to actually believe this, but at that time frame, the wrestling war was real, and it only things you were lacking, guys, real bullshit. I didn't care, No, it was real. There was a little bit of underlying heat amongst the boys. If you came from WCW or vice versa.

It's just the way that it was. And so when I came into WV with all the pomp and circumstance and you know, the Millennium Men, the countdown and you know, first night interrupting the Rock, I'm sure I had heat just by the fact that I was doing it fine. That was the fact that I was completely oblivious to that. I knew really nothing about the politics of what was going on. I was just doing my thing. However, I called Undertaker boring on TV. You know, just laughing at

that right now, like what the hell? Like what are you doing? Taker, even at the time was laughing, and he said it was even worse because he had just cut this super boring tromo. So it was like, I really like this young upside going at four that was the ship and it was the ships. But for Taker to hear that, and then of course Sean is there and Hunters there and Steve is there, and everyone is

there thinking, who does this guy think he is? Right? He I just stubborn and how I put together matches and stood up for what I believed in. It did lead to a lot of heat. And now I did not know that You're the one that went complaining to Vince about it. Yeah, but you know it was it was you, Hunter or China. I mean it was a combination of all three that did lead Vince. I believe

it was two months in. It was in Tampa, Florida to basically tell me, it's the classic line, You're you're as dreen as drass and you're not worth the paper that your contract is printed off. Wow Jesus, well he was. But at the time I wasn't as good as I thought I was either, because you came the other way around. You came from WW to w CW. Now, when you got to w CW, you have to tell me that you noticed there was a difference in organization and working style.

You know, I didn't realize just how I'm not going to say bad, but working in w CW, I never reason knew how to fee a comeback. Nobody ever taught me that, which is ridiculous when you think about it. But we were still working in this hybrid Japanese European Canadian style. I had no idea what bumping and feeding was, you know. I mean you picked it up quick, Chris. I mean you you adjusted real quick.

It's not like you did well and that's the thing to it. And you had the same the same benefit of being around the world before you got to w B. Right. So when I got to w DEB, I'd been working for nine years and I've been over in every company I'd ever worked for. So you know, there's certain guys like when Daniel Brian came into w D. I knew he would get over no matter what, because he's been over everywhere and he's ever worked. He'll figure it out. And that's

what I did. I figured it out. It didn't take long, but there was a huge, you know, bullseye on my back and I smartened up to it very quickly. And the other part of the story is when you know, we laugh now that you you know, went excuse me off or whatever. But what Vince told me was you now have to go well a he said, you're working with Xbox tonight. If you don't have a good match, you're fired, which is jailatine over my head, right.

And also and also I'm not sure if you ever heard that or not, but you could have easily went and sandbagged me and fucked me and you know, but you didn't. We had a great match, as we always did because we always had great match. Yeah, and then afterwards Vince was super cool, pat me on the back a pally wow called tomorrow. Oh and by the way, every match that you have from now on, run it past John waltmon first and make sure that it makes sense. What a fucking

Jesus Christ. What an environment to walk into what's problem with the contract, the paper your your name is printed on the fuck is wrong with these people? He doesn't know how to bump and feed. Do you know what that means? I don't even know what fucking feeding. I mean, I know what feeding the wrestler is. For sure. Every comeback, apparently to be proper, has to have the babyface, have the heel run into him, drop, you know, close line drop, get up, close line drop,

close line drop. That's bump and feed. You're feeding the feeding the baby face your body to knock you down. And when you look at it, it's like, yeah, that's that is how they do every comeback and it sucks. Like I get that it equips you to go, you know, on the circuit and do matches every night. That that please the fans just kind of memorize these these patterns that WW fans want out of matches.

But it's it's it's not like a badge of honor that you have drilled into you that at some point in this match the baby face has to start coming back and drop me three times with closed lines of right hands. It's just stupid. So when DDP comes in, he's not accustomed to selling like that he's not accustomed to, like its ww like. The culture is like, you're not taking my offense seriously enough unless you flat back for my right hand

right on the big comeback. So he wrestles Undertaker the first night and or one of the first nights in the big story was he's throwing his big soup bones, these vaunted Undertaker right hands at DDP is selling it as he would want to, which is basically like staggering into the ropes like a boxer and like not leaving his feet and not going down, and of course that's fucking sack religious, that's disrespectful. The Undertaker's real striking ability because he watches UF

so he gets in all kinds of heat. And that's why a lot of these WCW guys were in the doghouse was because there's all these rules. The WWF just pulled out of their ass and acted like they're like the only way to do pro wrestling. Apparently you can make millions of dollars in w CW would never have learned these lessons ever, including training under like Olely Anderson and

some deep grizzled veterans and Kevin Sullivan. The Power Plan because you want to know his secret, because it doesn't matter because it's not real and it's not real and the rules are bullshit, right, and also your personal taste has nothing to do with what makes good pro wrestling, right, and because that's well right for the masses, work like stop right exactly, stop stop funk out of here with that shit. You don't feed me something else, okay,

you feed me less feed comes in to slog. At first, he's presented very power bomb road dog through a table and smack downs, like, oh, this guy's coming with power, coming in as a smarmy, smart ass, he's actually knocking down an established talent, and then all of a sudden he needs a bodyguard. All of a sudden, they're pushing hard that he needs. I remember he comes in strong, and he's complained about this too. He's been talking about this in other things where he comes in strong

and then all of a sudden he's got nothing to do. They don't know what to do with it. It's like after he comes in and they realized the Rock isn't actually going to be his first program, and that's just like his first interaction, right, they realized like, well, we got to plunge really deep down the car to find somebody that it makes sense for him to work with this early in the game. Or you could have him go over Rock and make a star out of him. That was Russo's idea.

You know, I love love to have seen, honestly what he would have done with Jericho if he stuck around, because he fell in love with it, with the gimmick. But yeah, Curtis Hughes who had anarcolepsy and would literally fall asleep in the middle of the ring sometimes. That's why he wore those sunglasses all the time. Did you know that I did not? I

love that. That's the case that makes me very happy. Jericho once lent him like a you know, a sparkly vest because he would just show up in black T shirts and he wore that sparkle every single time, accorded to Jericho's book, that he showed up in his corner WATV. And then they kind of brought Howard Finkel out as maybe a new ralphist for him, and he needed like these these these interplay sidekick people all of a sudden with him,

Yeah, what's the problem, Yes, it's totally fine. And so he enters a few with Shamrock, which is an odd fit, but that was that was pretty much the idea, And so they have a deal where he's getting to Shamrock and injuring him and SHAMROCK's chasing him around trying to kill

him. But when they get to the pay per view, it turns out that Kenny's not going out to wrestle that he's got he's got issues with a series of things he had been according to his to his book that Jonathan Snowden Wright, he'd been injured on a September thirteenth house show in Anaheim, California, when he took a hard kick from mister Hughes. Actually that aggravated some neck issues that Ken Shermrock had going all the way back to high school,

and it made him nervous about taking further bumps in a wrestling match. While he was lining up what would become his return to MMA fighting. Let's not forget that he's pretty quickly going to cycle out of WWF and go back to Pride fighting Pride and fighting the UFC as well. So he's already moving on, you know what I mean. The last thing he wants to do is is lose it is loose right or to you know, aggravate an injury that

could prevent him from turning around and making immediate money in MMA. But he's totally fine aggravating fans, apparently inaggravating Chris Jericho. Yeah. So again to the point we get to we get to the building here for Unforgiven nineteen ninety nine, and Chris Jericho has to take the microphone on the pre show on Sunday Night Heat and tell the people that they're not going to get Ken Shamrock versus Chris Jericho tonight. Since we kick off Sunday Night Heat, we have

big news for you from the Charlotte Coliseum. Ken Shamrock, the world's most dangerous man, will not be able to compete tonight against Chris Jericho under doctors orders internal injury suffered at the hands of a Chris Jericho on Smith the fury of Chris Jericho. I know you expect me, and a lot of people expect me to come out here and gloat and brag and laugh about Ken Shamrock having to retire. Of course, that's exactly what I'm gonna do. Ken

Scamrock, you were lucky to escape with only losing a career. You're lucky that you can still walk and you can still talk, So consider yourself at a plus. But as all the Jerichoholics know, I would never ever let them down, and I guarantee that I am gonna scour this building and find an opponent to wrestle against tonight. I will still main event unforgiven, and I will still save this god forsaken boring pay per view. I guarantee it.

Do you understand? Let's go a big guy. Come on, It's Chris Jericho and Curtis Hughes, folks, also tonight, Hey still got a searching your voice? I feel like, yes, yes for incredible as his debut pro that's a Jericho that's kind of like, uh uh, how do I sound like I belong in WWF? Yeah? You know what I mean? Yep, I agree. So he talks in his book about a series of mishaps that led up to this match, as far as like working with Shamrock to get the uh, to get the matches, to get the match

set up. He says here in his book, I began a program with Ken Shamrock, which started with me being lowered into the ring inside of a shark cage like Richard Dreyfus and Jaws. I called Ken out, telling him that I wasn't in the cage to protect me from him. I was in the cage to protect him from me. Ken pride the bars open. I freaked out escaped backstage. Shamrock found Finkel in a blonde wig, thinking that he was me as he was accosting Harold as I called him, Yeah,

he called him Harold Finkle. That's right, I know, that's great. I stuck up from behind slam SHAMROCK's heading a car door and put him in the walls as Harold took pictures. The next week, Russo decided he wanted me to wear a suit of armor, yes, an actual suit of armor, for a first Blood match on Raw, with the idea being that I couldn't believe if I was wearing it. Let me ask you, dear reader,

have you ever tried to wear a suit of armor? Great Caesars goes It almost impossible to put on because of well, it's a suit of fucking armor. I wriggled and struggled gingerly to af fixate section of the metal body suit to my extremities, trying not to gouge myself to death. Then once I finally got it on, it was like being in a tin can with the top open. There were all these sharp edges cutting and digging into me. At one point I took a big step to the left and thought the

cod piece was going to saw my ball bag clean off. There was no way I was going to be able to work and match in this thing without slicing myself upwards the duel the butcher's forehead. It's a compromise. I came up with the idea of wearing full hockey were, including a helmet and face cage. The show was in Dallas, whose team had played Buffalo in the Inshelle playoffs that year, so of course I wore Sabers jersey for cheap heat.

I walked down the ramp and got a great nasty reaction from the crowd, But just as I got to the ring, the referee told me to go back to the gorilla position. It turned out that Vince wanted Shermrock to go to the ring first. Otherwise, why would he face me if he saw me standing there wearing hockey gear. The fact that he was the world's most dangerous man was good enough reason for me. It was a tape show. So I went out to the ring again, but this time the reaction

to my enemy Jersey was lukewarm at best. The surprise had been ruined, and as I walked out to as of crickets and tumbleweeds, I couldn't help but think that once again I'd been stricken by fate in a bad way. I was dying more deaths in the WW than Jason Vorhees. It was decided that Shamrock and I would have the blowof match from our angle at the next pay per view. Unforgiven, we were booked on a few live events beforehand to work on our chemistry, which about that pal? What's that you sure

about that pal? To work in our chemistry, which was a good thing because we had done in San Diego. I backed him up against the ropes, bent his head back and unleash a wicked chop to the center of his chest. Ha, I said in defiance, Ah, I said in English. Two seconds later, as Shamrock stuck my head up my ass, he took me down to the mat, snorting and grunning as he bent me into more positions than Jenna Jamison. I screamed at him, asking why he'd taken

such a fence to my chop. I don't like those chops. They're bullshit and they don't hurt, and I'm not going to sell them fair enough, okay, but I kindly suggested the next time I did something he didn't like, to simply tell me about it instead of turning me into a human or

origami. For the finish, I was supposed to hit him with a steeled chair, but when I went to bringside to grab one, all I saw was the red, comfy padded kind Needless to say, the viciousness of a chair shot is kind of deluded when the object in question is covered with a plush, red feather pillow. I was expected to clock the world's most dangerous man with a weapon that the girl's next door would use to arouse Hugh Hefner's horn, but the soft satin sex toy was all that was available, so

I improvised and whacked him over the head. Shamrock looked at me with the disgust as the crowd went mild after what I got in trouble for lathy Jack Lanza for not making sure there was a proper steel chair at ringside, since one was checking the furniture around the ring my job. I was surprised I didn't get in trouble for not checking the bathroom for extra toilet paper. Two. Shamrock ended up pulling out of our pay per view match on the day

of the show with a neck injury and was replaced by XPOC. I had some ideas I wanted to try with Ken that I thought would work with Pac as well, but he didn't show up until about four thirty for the eight o'clock show. When he arrived, I told him I had some ideas for the Shamrock match that I wanted to transfer over to him. It was such a stupid concept because POC and Ken were total opposites in the ring, but I was convinced that the match I'd plotted out was a classic and I wanted

to stick to it. I was really wrong. Xbox's signature move was the Bronco buster, where the other guy be lying prone in the corner and he'd stick his X cock into his opponent's face and ride that shit up and down. I had to be different, so I wanted to take a Sean Michael's turnbuckle flip upside down under the turnbuckle, an Xpock would give me a reverse bronco buster. I figured that Michael's turnbuckle bump would prove my metal amazing.

Imitating Sean Michaels in the corner makes you fucking worth it. Right to this day, we talked about the triple in the trans spots. Right. Yeah, everyone's super kicking, everyone's kipping up, everyone's pedigreeing, everybody's duck in the clothes line, hitting hangman's noose, neck breaker, everyone's high kneeing. Fucking hell, it's disgusting, so stupid. Of course I can plunge you fucking idiots. Of Course I completely botched it, flipping poorally and not making

it all the way up into the corner. When Xpock did the reverse bronco buster, it looked terrible. His crotch and my mouth were in the same place, and he didn't have my legs to support him. The crowd didn't react at all to my impromptu blow job, and they didn't react to the horrible d you finish either. Xpock was a smart worker and the mat should have been good, but it wasn't. I just couldn't get it together.

Later on, I asked XPOC what he thought about the bout, and he said it was what it was translation that stuck my friend, and we both know it that Jericho curse was refusing to leave the party and was vomiting all over the furniture. To boot, I began to wonder if I'd ever have a good match again. So when you watch, when you watch this shit go down here at I'd forgived nineteen ninety nine, know that Chris Jericho is hardly enjoying it. What what I mean, Jesus Christ, what I seem

like? What do you think is that exaggerated or did it feel like that much? Like the shits? I don't think it sucks, No, I mean I don't think it was that bad. I mean I thought it was a solid thing. It's just that the fucking you know, those idiots, the fucking click, you know, they're just they ruin everything. They just make it seem so high stakes in the beginning, like you have to impress all of them, and it's like and they make it so hard like for

anyone to just have funds exactly or do their fucking job exactly exactly. They make it seem like there's all of this like that the fans care about these little things that they know he gives a shit. It's like, no, you know, it's it's a fucking fake sport over Like, right, do they react to your shit? Because they'll tell you what. They just don't even react to much in that fucking match. It's strange. I might just pretty dead until the very end. I don't know. It's hard. It's

hard for me because you know, I'm not a worker. I don't know the difference between how a crowd reacts when you quote unquote get it right and when you don't. I do see kind of a disjointed, kind of off timed match here. It does look like Jericho is not quite where he needs to be as the match unfolds. Yeah, you know, and that's that. That's not a positive. I'm not saying that that's something that is to be ignored, but I do think it's way over emphasized how much the fans

notice these things or give a shit. I agree, is the character over or not? And then you can work whatever style you want? And the character was over, but then all of a sudden he started doing all this weird shit. Where's guy's a comedy guy? Okay, fine, he's a comedy guy, and all of a sudden he's on pay per view one on one with Xbox and he's supposed to be a work right guy. It's like no, I thought he was like cowardly hiding behind Howard Finkland, Curtis Hughes

guy right. I don't know if that hadn't had as much to do with it. And if Russo's on the way out, that means Jeff Jard's on the way out, as we've dis boy closing out this This portion of our unforgetting and net coverage is a quick peek at China's book, because she's going to be odd woman out? Is she not quite soon? She? She absolutely is. Stephanie's gonna win the heart and the screen Visa v Triple H and she's gonna find herself feuding with Jeff jiartt a series of men, including

Chris Jericho and a lot of ways. Chris Jericho saved his ass in WW by pulling good matches out of China, even though he sort of decried how tough it was to work with her in certain ways because she would be very sort of I guess particular about what she should do with matches and can do in matches. I think the way he put it in the next Pock interview was, you know, she was she thought she was a little bit better than she was when it came to discussing what was gonna happen in the ring

and things she thought she could do to great effect. And he had to kind of take the reins as a veteran wrestler and say, no, that's not gonna look good, that's not gonna work right, and that good matches they did, and I think, yeah, you know, I thought this was actually much better. I'll tell you what. You know, for that era especially, it did not you know, she she felt more like a contemporary uh, you know, woman wrestler. She sure did. Then then

what was going on? The guys figured out a way to sell for her that was credible. Yes, they only kind of got messed up. I think she did that looked like they would hurt anybody. And Jericho with the Survivor series in nineteen ninety nine and threw on the internan continental title program. Did that work and I think that won him, YEP, a position there that was a bit more stable than the shaky ice. He seemed to be

on. I mean, the same thing happened to John Cena. John Cena came in, John fucking Sena came in, and within two months they were like, we need to get rid of this fucking guy. He sucks. Yeah, he's imagined. Like can you can just imagine the lack of like discernment that that reflects that you can't see past whatever bullshit hang up you have on a guy and see that you've got somebody that's going to be your top guy for fifteen years or a top guy fifteen years, just like Jericho and

and Sena. Look, if he's not if they're not gonna if they're not going to come out in their first matriage on on TV and fucking blow me away, then they're not worth it. It's amazing. I don't see the problem in that. If they don't come out right away and fucking blow me away, then they obviously don't have what it takes to be a professional entertainer.

So we see China versus Jeff Jarrett here on the show for the title, the Intercontinental title, and China comes tantalizingly close to winning the straps. She does one of our first hints that the crowd is really behind the idea of her winning a men's title, like they will respond very favorably, but they pulled the rug back again. It's a dusty finish here at Unforgiven. We know a good housekeeping match at No Mercy was Jeff Jarrett's final night in

the company. China wins the belt and Jared shows up on Nitro the next night or the week after that, whatever it was. This is where Russo came in. So on November the one November show or October was it? I don't fucking remember now, who gives a shit? So here I agree. Here's China talking about working with Jeff Jarrett at this point in time and kind of the ecological backdrop to what we see happen here in in October, some months before our match border around the the Big Black Tower in Stanford,

was that Vince McMahon was going through a major case of buyer's remorse. He shelled out mega. They call it the Big Black Tower like it was fucking universal. That's weir, that was, Yeah, she gets a little too cute with their words in this book. It kind of pisses me off the because that's you know, that's what they used to call. That's what they call universal. There's a there's a big black tower they call it. And I mean it's not like Stanford's blue. Yeah, it's reflex a sky.

What do you talk, lack if it's like nighttime? Well, you'd being an idiot. Shelled out Megabank to sign Jarrett to his last contract, and over the past year, Jared's popularity was on the downswing, and this despite the fact that the WWF promoted the hell out of him, changed his name, his outfit, and even his hairstyle. Probably the best example of a wretched excess was during Jared's Electric Horseman phase. One night, We're all backstage,

I think in Buffalo limbring up, getting ready for a matches. I look over at Kane and he's got his nose in the air, pulls off his mask. What the fuck is that smell? He's frowning. Now we're all smelling it. Horseshit. Hunter snaps, No, I really smell something bad, came counters He looks a little hurt. I smell it too, Paul, I insist, horseshit, it's horse shit. There you see,

Paul points down the cement corridor. There is Jeff Jarrett on a real live horse and in his cowboy get up neon lights outlining his physique, making him glow like Robert Redford and the Electric Horseman, which actually look pretty damn cool until you realize the horse he was riding was actually a pony, and this one might have been part Shetland because Jeff's feet touched the ground. Eventually they got okay, what's that? Okay, Eventually they get a horse that fit

him, But the whole thing just didn't go over. As I've said before, if there's one thing you can tell, it's when the crowd isn't with something, when they just ain't buying it. In this case, they were saying, oh, nay, fuck the horse. Put him with China McMahon ordered Vince Russeau one morning before Russo did this customary thing, which was to go off and right from his home, China and Jarrett light book a pay per view title match and let him kick the shit out of each other.

McMahon, I'm told, sort of laughed to himself and shook his head. When he does this, it usually means he's had his wits end. Last straw time, Russo had been chomping at the bit for a while to get me up against a guy in a title match. I mean, I'd like to think we were all heading in that direction, but he wasn't sure Jarrett was the right choice. He's got a problem with heat right now. Vince Russo countered, if we're going to do this, shouldn't we go with someone

bigger book him. We're not going to resign him anyway, it solves a ton of problems. And besides, Vince trailed off. Didn't finish the sentence. Ruce, Wow, you know we're not going to fuck resign It's probab what it sounded like. I'm reading this, I'm realizing. Another thing that pissed Vince russou Off was that Steve Boston would have worked with Jeff Jarrett. Right, Remember that paper came out and stunned him, Remember that? Yeah? Was that mercy? Maybe that was no mercy? Maybe I don't know.

And the word was that, you know, because of course Russo and Jared are thickest thieves, and Jarrett has russot to thing for revitalizing his career after the aforementioned fucking disastrous returned to the double Jay gimmick when he came back in nineteen ninety eight, ninety ny eight, did they assack outfit was a fucking disaster? Oh god, on w a stable was a disaster. He

was going nowhere and all that ship I know, I knows. Let him crack people of women over the head with guitars and cut his hair short, don't piss me all and and change changes music brown. Yeah sang like that definitely starts boun with like Devi with her hands on her hips, like nodding with a smile. Yeah, yep, with like her fucking tits like barely being contained by her pink super legs shiny. Yes, oh god, that's so attitude. There are shiny Deborah. Yes, it is shiny Debora legs.

But it is shiny Debora leg We're not going to resign him anyway. Yes. Russo then did a very smart thing. He asked for time to manufacture a little rivalry between us, a little build up to work it. There were a handful of rumors floating around as to why Vince ultimately paired me up with Jeff. Some people saw it as a natural Jeff, being six feet seven with his build, he had a great not true, Yeah, not quite that guy. He had a great muscle tone but didn't look like

a lego toy. The blonde hair against my black wig, and that would look good in the ring square. Dancing into a clothesline with me was kind of sexy. Won't they come down? But in the end, the way the whole thing played out, maybe it wasn't up there with who shot JFK, but you just had to think conspiracy. Most of the guys bought the magic bullet proposition to for one deal. I was on the way up and

pairing me with him would help put Jarrett a big investment over. But looking back on it twenty twenty hindsight, Yeah, yeah, I'd have to go with the two gunman theory. Back when Vince mcmahne, Oh my god, bless her heart, bless her soul. But back when Vince McMahon suggested the parent to go with exactly, oh wow, look at you with the references and flourishes. Fuck dude, don't I don't like your China imitation? And what I don't like about it is it's good game on. I'd have to

go with the two gunman theory. Back when Vince McMahon suggested the pairing he probably had no intention of resigning Jeff Jarrett. Vince was ready to cut bait eat his investment, pairing us China the Woman Jared the Man was a gamble. Vince couldn't lose. Do it on pay per view. If it goes over, everyone loves it. Vince keeps me up there, pairing me with the guys working in a title match here and there. Sure a rematch with Jared is out of the question since he'll be gone, but nothing was working

with him anyway. If the whole lovely Inner gender bite me fest doesn't come off, well, Jared's gone and Vince doesn't have to worry about a rematch. Not only that, there we go, Jared, a money pit for the wit off so far goes out as a loser. You think they're gonna let him win. He was leaving. Here's where it gets a little far fetched, I admit it. But those late night drives from city to city do crazy things to your head. A lot of time to think, you

know what I'm saying in a freaky way. The reel and the imagine smacking to each other out on the highway late at night, and here here at this juncture, of my wrestling career. This whole business about competing with the man, about what is she talking about? What the fuck is she saying? But convincing the phony and the actual we're colliding against. Shut up? Remember what he said when Hunter and Sean went to him about me, what's she gonna do? Beat up all the guys. They're not gonna go for

it. While Vince came around, got on board and eventually welcomed the China character into the fold, he still knew a little bit about human nature. Is there a chance that he might have got some satisfaction out of knowing Jeff Jerrett was leaving the WWF as the first man to lose to a woman.

Nah, After all, I didn't really beat him, right, Vince Russou wrote the bits between Jeff and myself leading up to the big title match, stuff where Jeff would run out blindside me during a match with a toaster, then run away, China, You're gonna run and hide like every other woman would do? Now does she mentioned in the Battle of the Sex has spent in two months? The whole year of Hever China build up became so popular that in the day original paperv matressposed to take place. The w F added

to milk the whole work for another month. Okay, So she's saying here that unforgiven was supposed to be the blowof to the feud at first, and then the boneheaded way which put them in that tough contractual position. They delayed it for a month. What if that was Vince Russo? Bro? When does your contract expire? Bro? They had two they had the two of us fight, Bro, but Jared clabbered me with a guitar when the ref wasn't looking and beat me. Woila, we have another month of getting into

each other's faces. What Vince McMahon didn't count on was Vince Russo, his top writer, suddenly bolting to the Ted Turner funded w CW. So shrees Russo, who quote unquote convinced Vince McMahon to delay our match a month, knowing that Jared had plans to sign with the WCW just as he did. So was it she saying in a question, did Russo tip off Jared about Vince McMahon's intention to dump him? I'll let you be the judge. Oh

God, shut up. And with that intrigue and with that backdrop, and with that table set, we go headlong into the archive to take a look boss at wwf Unforgiven nineteen and ninety nine. Do you feel ready? Yes, I'm I think there's about as ready as you can be in this situation. Six pack challenge time. It's time for a co chairman to rise to the challenge one more time in the spirit of TLFX. It's wwf Unforgiven nineteen ninety nine. It's back to the attitude on the other side of this Pride

nine. Hold on, we got a death toll eight eight dead in an nine show, which I think is good. I thought it was way more honestly, Yeah, now unless I missed some, but I got Howard Finkel, Timmy White, China, Sure May Young Mula, Lunar boss Man, and the British Bulldog had no undertaker Warner Taker. No, he's gone. Is that everybody? He's gone? Just walked walked out, walked out and you know, didn't really explain why, and then came back as a biker.

Yeah, he left to heal a groin injury, right, Yeah, but that's not how I actually I went back and watched the SmackDown and just like fuck, the basically just walks out because Vince has to get him in a qualifying match for the six Pack Challenges, right, No, and he walks out and then he just kind of goes away and it's like, okay,

bye bye. So for that decision, he does not join the vaunted Out FORGID nineteen ninety nine death Toll, but he does not here TLF certainly pour one out for the ones who did, and we'll sample their work and the work of so many others as we head headlong into the Attitude era. On the other side of the S break, it's the Lapsed Fan Wrestling Podcast.