Ep. 385: WCW's SuperBrawl V (1995) (Part 1)

It's the Lapsed Fan Wrestling podcast with Jack and carn s e O and JP Sorrow who's a lapsed fan in all my years and wrist plan you never seen anything. And it's the laps fan man, not the one in the ring to get about Osado. He the real king of swing with the bell goes egg and the kick like me. It's in the corner with its rash like stick. Even Jerry King can take off the crowd nodded in his head like his tee Low Brown would just getting low down, got even high up,

flipp you on your head. But you know coul tribal spiting mow and dragon spits fire. If you more shot than when Age tree tire dropping more truth than the con of sniper. Bless you with a coconut, Roddy Piper checking JP he a jat d drop the cupcakes and golden the brain. Bob means the best podcast first start to close, flop you all been a fit his

classic and polls were rocking and rolling to nineteen ninety five. Boss Any thoughts on Hogan versus Vader For Christ's sakes, Oh my god, I'm kidding, that's like the fucking It's It's probably the match when when Hogan first announced that he was going to WCW, that's the match people thought of. At least I did. That was the match I thought of. I was like, this is it, Like, that's that's the money match right there, that's the that's about as Hogan andre As you can get. Think about that before

Hogan Flair. I mean, obviously Hogan Flair was the obvious one, but it was it was like right there, like uh, when he came in, it was like, obviously he's going after Flair, but at some point it's going to be he in Vader, Yes, and it's going to be it's going to be awesome. I still think, and I think I thought then too, that it should have been at starkad absolutely ninety four, you know, instead of that fucking beefcake barber match. Well, that was such

a marker of how Hogan was going to conduct business in WCW. You know that once he got the belt and booked his first starcade, he didn't go for the money match. He went for making his buddy, you know, right, and sort of forcing that to be a main event. And of course we've covered Stark ninety four and the Star Kad Memorial Tour, and we've covered Uncensored nineteen ninety five, which takes place after this. Of course Hogan Invader in the Strap match. But this this where Flare gets pinned, where

Flair gets pinned in drag, right, yes, yes he does. I think I think as opposed to Flair getting pinned in drag, I think I would have preferred someone getting dragged to all four corners. And that's absolutely that's not what we got. And so it's it's his nineteen ninety five WCWS had get Super Bowl five February Baltimore Arena, Hogan versus Vader for the very first time. This is very original old San fran toy line, their version of

LJN. M mm hmm. This is very like just before Nitro. I mean it is literally just before Nitro launches in September of nineteen ninety five, but it's true, just the on WII of WCW, you know, feeling their way around, starting to get a little more leaning in a little more to the marketing and licensing, leaning a little more into multiple pay per views.

This is the first uncentered coming up in nineteen ninety five, and they would expand their pay per view schedule considerably, causing the WWF to do much the same within your house Later, nineteen ninety five is a fascinating year, and Hogan having just beat Flair at Bash of the Beach the prior summer,

we're tired of it. Halloween Havoc, like you said, face the butcher ed Leslie at Starkad and then right after that, and it's in the memorial tour archives, Vader barges in on a celebratory Hulkegan, doesn't he with Jim Barnett in the background, Oh my god, that's right, trying to hold it all together. The senior consultant, Ah, I fucking love that. That made me so happy, and he barks at him, and man, I don't know, did you see sar k ninety four or hear about it?

Did you see or confront Hulk Cogan or is it just in your mind that I did not? I just from I just know that afterwards. I it was it was funny. I think I said this when we either when we did Star Kate or when we did Halloween Havoc ninety four, that there was even though even though I got the the Hogan, you know, I was really excited about the Hogan Flair cage match like that to me was you know, again, it's the only ww pay per view that I ever bought.

But but after it was revealed to be Beefcake as the masked man, I kind of regretted not waiting till Stark. Yeah. Absolutely, I'm be the only one. But I regretted. I was like, oh my god, because I was, you know, being a fan from ninety two in ninety one, ninety two one, and knowing that that that history with you know, with the that they that they that they talked about it at Saturday Night's main event in ninety two February of nine to where you know it was

it was after the boating accident. It was hul Cogan who was pumping blood into the veins of Brutus Beefcake. To me, that was like holy shit, you know, how do you turn on your guy? You know and all that? So that was, uh, that was that was I remember. Yeah, it was like being real, like fuck all that was left in starka instead? Yeah, well, I mean that was you know, if you cared about those two in their tag team, yeah, all that

was left of that heat around Brutus's facial reconstruction. Was Kevin Sullivan using his Brutus's face on this show to smash Dave Sullivan into the plates in his face and sex? What a dumb fucking moment. It wasn't a pretty match. No, well, I mean, come on it. When you're getting Kevin and Evad, it's not going to be pretty. And to say nothing of dug In mixing it up at a snail's pace with the bunk house Buck. How about Avalanche? How about Yeah, well Avalanche saw the show, but

I thought you did. Just find I was thinking of a Blacktop Bully and Dustin Rhodes. Oh god, this is not a great show. It's not a great show. And I actually wrote something down. I think it was during let me say, I can find it here. It was during the I think it was during the tag. No, no, it was during the Blacktop Bully, the Blacktop bullshit match, and I wrote that. I said, this is what I wrote. I wrote the magic of wrestling and

why it used to be better lies within this match. Wow, Okay, even though this match is dreadful, I would still be invested in who was going to win, and I would still watch TV the following we just see what was going to happen next between the Blacktop Bully and Dustin Rhoads. Yep, Well what would happen next would be the truck match after which is we'll talk about They were summarily fired for getting color. The last thing WW could

four back then was to have colorful television. Yes, but vaderique, I'm surprised their TV wasn't in black and white. Well, it depends. I mean they were cutting costs and they were only they weren't doing live events, they were just doing the TV tapings. This is still that era, the very end of that era, where like they taped weeks of TV that was going to air after the pay per view. Ah, So, like any word that came out about what they taped at the show totally gave away finishes,

title changes. You know, people already knew the Slambury Hall of Fame class because it was announced at the tapings, those kinds of things. But Vader is a unique faue for hull Cogain. I mean, we're Hulka maniacs. We were accustomed to the formula. We know what they look for in terms of characteristics of a foe. To come looming over the Hulster into challenge and threaten him. And certainly Vader has the size box check does it regards

your typical Hogan foe. But this is different. This is this is like Sid ninety two plus ten in that yes, right, yes, it's not just that it's a cooler heel than Hogan is a cool face, but it's also a guy who can just do so much more dynamic things in the ring than anybody Hogan had really faced in a main event pay per view program before. He's a legit threat, like he is a legit physical threat to Hulk

Hogan. And and that's what I also think made it so exciting was that Vader was such a beast, he was such a an animal in the ring that it was it definitely it was. I don't remember if I felt like that because I wasn't you know, I was. I was half invested with OSW who still at the time, I was only invested because of Hogan. But I don't know if if it felt the exact same as as I mean, Sid was scary to me as an eleven year old. Sid was scary.

Sid was somebody who I thought was going to potentially kill Hulkogan, right, you know, and it was it was very, very scary for me, Whereas the worst the other heels could do was like seriously injure him by like breaking his rights, by sitting on him or something. Right. It wasn't like they would like strangle him to death, right exactly. You know, like choke slams and power bombs. Those were unique moves to me. And of course they was talking about the threat of hull Camania. Right.

So many people came after Hulkamania in WCW, not just Hulk Hogan, but the idea of Hulkamania. Yes, yes, in this case, in this Vader match super Bowl five, I really feel like it was Hulkamania that Vader was going up against because the fans, you know, they did or they had to do. With the Flair program. Flair did the honors, you

know, put the strap on Hogan. You know, if we're going to pay all this money for this guy, we might as well, you know, position him as strongly as possible and see where we can take this thing. And you know, Flare's fine, he's Teflon. He can lose to

Hogan one hundred times. It doesn't matter. But Vader's different. Vader's a guy who, like the fans are like, yes, if anybody is going to go that extra mile to spit in the face of the cheesy presentation of Hulk Canane, Yes, we'd grown so tired of by nineteen ninety five, and we hear it in the crowd here in Baltimore. Sure it's Vader,

because Vader's Vader's much more, no bullshit. He's somebody that, yep, you just you can believe, won't just do the Hogan song and dance, even though he kind of tried to fit him into that box, did Hogan. Vader never really, never really was eaten alive by Hogan like Hogan wants, like Hogan desires, right and definitely not on this show. As the match ends in a deeply dissatisfying disqualification for reasons of course we'll get into. But I don't know. Vader, to me was was a deeper menace.

And it turns out behind the scenes somebody that Hogan Shock Shock was rather concerned about. Brother. I mean, what's this guy going to do out there? He's got bodies in his wake. Dude, he's hurt. I mean, were talking about what do we Leon? I'm just you know, Leon brother, Can we kind of dial this thing in a little bit? Du Can we just kind of I mean, we're walking around the building all day trying to find you, dude, I'm trying to figure out where you are,

and I'm like, you know where is you know? Where's Leon White? Where's Big Van Vader? Do you know? Like I can't find the guy? How are we supposed to you know, talk things over? Can I get on the same page, kind of get all this thing back on track to get to you that to get to that place where we can we

can communicate? Dude? How are you supposed to work out a finish that I can then show up to the building on pay per view night an hour beforehand and say I don't want to do it anymore and give you no time to do anything but what I want to do on That's my kind of body Hold Cord, I'm gonna be cho it. Hold Gold, I'm gonna I'm gonna come down here. I'm gonna eat you alive. I realized too. He goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, Leon White, Sover Brover bra

you got it. In case you forgot the name of the pay per view, and it's also a weird ass time because Flair is still kind of booking, though Kevin Sullivan really seems to be pulling most of the weight. There's kind of a committee, but nobody really has power besides Fla, and Flair is kind of growing disinterested. He's kind of involved tangentially with Vader here. He you know, sits in the crowd or in the main event, plays a role in the storyline, but he's still supposed to be retired and they

haven't figured out a way out of that yet. And Harley race As will talk about Vader's longtime manager who also played an important role backstage in terms of calming Vader down when he didn't like a booking proposal, or didn't like a finish, or was you know, inclined to go too far in the ring.

Harley was a guy that Vader would actually listen to and could sort of crack whip on, and you know, as a conduit from Flair through Harley to Vader, it was perhaps a little easier to get Leon to color within the line, so to speak. He's gone because he gets in a very bad car accident, is Harley race and so his absence is very much notable.

Is he gone for good at this point? Is this is so it that, as he talks about in his book, people started to do the Harley Race's dead stuff and oh my god, four or five different scenarios he heard over his life about how he's actually dead. That's how deep into the the background. He receded after this we because it was weird, because because he's he's in like, he's all over the place in terms of the advertising and everything, you know, the advertising and even in the opening package and

stuff like that, and then he just kind of no shows. Yeah, they did a clash with the Champions in Las Vegas, which they make regular reference to in January of that year, and Vader in fact comes out for an interview on that show with Gene Okerland, and you know, Oakerland introduces him as Vader with Harley Race, and then Harley doesn't walk out, and Vader doesn't really address why Harley's missing. I think that or maybe it's ninety

six, that's the one I don't remember. Maybe I can't recall if it's the ninety five one or the ninety six, you know January clash where Randy Savage elbows Hulkogan to wake him up. I don't think it's that one because now that the January clashes him and Savage versus Kevin Sullivan, and but it could be, it could be that one. That that could be it like the elbum will wake him up. I don't because Hogan's I don't remember,

because Hogan's completely out and he won't, he won't wake up. And so Savage says, fuck it up, m and he goes up top and he drops the elbow, and that makes Hogan Hulk Cup amazing. Of course, Savage just showed up in November of ninety four, and super Brawl five is his first WCW pay per view match, so yeah, grapple with that. He also appears in Start ninety four. Also, can we talk about Sting and Rainey Savage as a tag team. Yeah, what a fucking exciting idea.

Can you imagine that? I never really ever considered tag team. They said title run Man seriously so awesome. They were such great, like they really gelled together so wild. Last time we were with you Royal Rebel two thousand and eight, talking about in reflecting on Rick Flair's retirement, here we are Sting after his retirement and yeah, right, getting to taste what it

was people will miss about the guy. And you know, Sting was undeniable and that while Hogan brought in all of his friends and sort of like remixed the whole idea of what w c was, you couldn't deny Sting. Stings still had to have a seat at the top of the card because he was just maybe somebody. I don't think they wanted to push down, but even if they wanted to, he still finds his way into the mix with Hogan,

Savage and the rest. But it's that time at WCW. You know, it's now becoming clear after a few months that Hogan is going to essentially book WCW in terms of deciding what the top of the card looks and feels like. I mean, certainly other guys can do their own thing, but it's pretty much that's the method going forward. He's got twenty five percent of

the pay per view revenue. They're boosting the amount of pay per view significantly, which was a great move, as it always is in wrestling, and aw's doing the same thing right now where they started with two and then four pay per views, and everyone's like, oh, it's so great to have so much build between shows, and then inevitably they add and add an ad because people will buy them no matter what, and the buys don't go down

and you just make more money. And so ww desperately needed that money and had a drawn hol Cogan that could you know, make for some very attractive

looking year over year comparisons. I mean, we'll talk about it later, but super Brawl ninety four to Super Brawl ninety five within without hulkokein big difference, and you got a Vader who's cranky because, as we've talked about before in the Uncensored Show and we'll talk about here again today, definitely thought and was led to believe that he was going to get the world title back after dropping it to Ric Flair at Star Kate nineteen ninety three, right, and

that ended up not happening, as Flair took power over a Dusty Rhodes who was still sort of booking when Flair came back to beat Vader and they changed it from Vader versus Sid at Stark ninety three, and then all of a sudden, that sort of promised return of the championship to Vader never happened, and then Hogan comes in and he's led to believe that there might be some business to do here and then finds out the way everybody does that. You

know, Hulk's going over. It's very simple. I mean, I know there was no way around it, but man, I think, I think, to really to really make Vader look like a fucking absolute unstoppable monster, he should have beaten Hogan in this match. There's absolutely no debating that that was the right move. Everyone knows it's the right move, you know, And then they could have could have Hogan to agree to. So you you latch onto all the explanations of why that it might not have been the greatest

idea, but you know in your heart it was the move. On this night, just watching it and just watching how it was all going about the way the way that that Vader was no selling Hogan, like the fact that he kicked out of the leg drop at one, that's massive, massive, massive, And you know, there's been a lot of like, including from Vader's own lips, like mythologizing about how Hogan turned around and got right up from the power bomb later and how that was almost like double he did the

same thing at the clash the month before. I don't know why anyone's ever I never fact checked Vader. He didn't. Also, he didn't. It was a it was a it was a splash. He didn't. He he killed him with the with the with the power bomb and he laid there for a while. Oh yeahsolutely he no soul of the splash right right, which I guess is is him saying, is Vader saying he didn't expect that piece of it? But I'm sure in Hogan's mind, if you kick out at one in the leg drop, I mean, no one's ever done that.

Brother. So I've given you more than enough to be able to come back, giving you all hulk mania, dude, right, I mean, I just want you to know Leon, tonight, I'm going to give you a hull cale mania and the silver platter. Brother. The power he points to his palm, brother, the power right right here, dude, you see you see the power? Brother? I don't see the power that's right here? Brother? Where is the fucking pow colin? Oh? Sit o fucking

power? All right? Well, can we get someone else to change the fuse box? Please? Oh? I'm telling you I'm gonna write my hand, brother, I said, all you need right here. Do you got the power? Brother? Give the fucking power. He was He was unleashed. He was unleashed, was Vader back then? But a fascinating show in a lot of ways. And I mean Hogan versus Vader for the first time, it's just something we need to crack open. But yeah, Vader beat

him for the title. Like, people don't shit on hul Cogan in nineteen ninety five anywhere near the degree they ended up doing. No, No, you know, Hogan coming back against Vader like would have been that there's your ninety five right there, and people would have wanted to see him do it. You know, people would have I think, kind of respected that he came in WCW and let somebody that you know, was a homesteaded badass main eventor before he got here, uh, you know, to retain some of

that credibility. Because I think too, if they did a whole if they did a whole angle where you know, he pins him clean and and and he again Flair comes in and beats the crap out of him, you know, they could have gone he could have taken a couple of months off, you know, taken a couple of months off and gone and gone away, uh to sell the the injury like he does, and all these things then come back at like in like late spring, and they could have set up

that cage match you know at Bashed the Beach, and that's where he could have won it back. I do wonder if part of the calculus was that, well that makes sense. You know, they're ramping up pay per views for the first time, and they're gonna have one in March, and you gotta have Hogan on a pay per view. You know. The whole reason they're ramping it up is because we have it, or you could do it,

or you could do this too. You could you could have him, have have him went super brawl and then have this uh you know, I mean, I know you're not gonna get listen this this is this is definitely in perfect world thinking you're not gonna get Hogan to lose twice in a row.

I understand that, but it still would have been great. Maybe he doesn't injure him at that, but he injured him at that fucking uncensored this new you know, you know they have this because I don't think even even the remat at the The uncensored match wasn't for the title, I don't think, right, because it was a quote unquote un sanctioned about Yeah, they were all unsanctioned. That was the whole thing. Yeah, right, is that even though there it's a w CW pay per view, it's all unsanctioned.

Yeah, it wasn't. It wasn't for the belt, so you know it would have been, it wouldn't have mattered anyway you could have had. So Hogan loses the belt at super Bowl, he wants revenge right away,

and you think he's gonna get it, but he doesn't. Vader beats him again, and this time Vader Flair all them they fucking gang up on him and and in Germany's gone from then you can go away because the next one is Slambury yep, you know, and then he could make his you know, triumphant return it like the Great American Bash, and then they have their uh their their mash at Bash of the Beach with the little been a huge number, yeah, I mean, this was a big enough number as it

was. This was the first uh ten thousand plus paid WCW show since funk Flair in eighty nine. Think about that. Wow. As they returned to where Funk and Flair did it. Baltimore here at the Baltimore Arena always a rock solid city for w CW and Crocket, And part of the part of the lore of that city is some as a market willing to support the number two is something that started as a WWF city. So we're gonna get into

all that. We're gonna taste it, we're gonna feel it. We're going to put ourselves where we need to be with our you know, original san Fran Hogan and Flair busting each other up. I played this one often. Hogan of course, had the bandana and the shirt that didn't come off, and Vader was like a rock in your hand. Yes, with his two fists perfect for Ada EIGHTA in the corner. Yep. All for God's sake, he fucking laid out those potatoes. Yes, and then the match started

right exactly. That's how that's how he that's how we eat the potatoes, the Taito tita, I mean, any any other accurate things you want to re enact. He h and he's on the charge too, I mean when he when he and when he's done eating, he does that kind of like that little uh, that little kind of squatted hop thing that he does around. You know, that's his happy face, has happy dance when he's done

eating. I mean, this is the show where like our whole thing of Vader, you know, coming down on a SnowCat and busting into a white castle and eating all the inventory that this is the body language we're talking about the way he rampages around the Baltimore He's like jumping onto limousines in the parking lot. He's attacking Jabbroni's on the pre show. He's just he's just wandering hallways. You know, we hear about it. The announcers talk about how

he's wandering hallways back there. It's all it's all the idea of Vader, you know, scrounging for sustenance, scrounging for calories. Yeah, because you know that's the thing. This is, this is what Harley Race has done. He he he says, you know what he says, Vader Vader big day of the match. You can't eat the damn food. You can't eat anything in the morning, can't eat anything until the pay per view is over.

None of that catering tops that's the whole ball game. Eat after the match, eat after the show, not before the show, from when you wake up until you until the end of the show, you're not eating a damn thing. I want you hungry. I want you hungry. I want you wanting to kill people in the ring. Imagine me, imagine Vader rolling into a Denny's, like, shut it down, guys, like this is

going to be a long process. He rolls into the first, first restaurant, and and and and you know, he goes up to the he goes up to the the what do you call it that? Who's the person you meet at the hostess, the hostess and the host hand and just like smashes it with his hands. Dinnifood dinner phone up, fucking hog d It's the second hostess he walked up to and smashed with his hand that day. Actually, I believe the first one he smashed with his mouth, but that's a

story that was filled with cream. It's right, So let's wat a time. I'm fucking ugright, hobody you we're gonna see if he eats here at Super Brawl five. So let's acquaint ourselves, of course, among the cast of characters that followed Hogan and WW was gene Oquoland and they imported the event center concept to WCW, and they were doing something like that before with Gordon Soli and stuff. But here is a gen Ocalan event center for super Brawl

five featuring Hulk Hogan promo. Let this sort of give us a sense, give us that backdrop, that that sound of what Hogan in the dawn of nineteen ninety five sounded like. In WCW, this is hit gene Okerland fact at the WCW super Brawl Control Center. Super Brawl comes your way alive from one of the great wrestling cities of North America, one of the great wrestling cities of the world, Baltimore, Maryland, and the beautiful Baltimore Arena that

eight Sunday, February of the nineteenth at seven o'clock Eastern times. Fans are going to be coming in from neighboring New York, Philadelphia, Washington, d C. And of course from Baltimore, especially our core fans who have always

dreamed of the Hulkgan Vader meeting for the WCW Heavyweight title. Remember that injunction that stayed at Hogan in the four hundred and fifty two pound Vader could not see each other after what happened at Starcade, Then came last Wednesday in Las Vegas, and again blatant interference by Vader, one of the most exciting single matches this sport has ever seen. Holt, Cogan and Vader at Super Brawl

five standing by right now. Let's hear from the rainey t me way check into the world, Old Covid yous after what happens to class man, These grouns are crazy. You don't need to pty more fuel on the fire. Look at Rick Brow think he's up to something. Man, he was at Caesar Palace sitting in the ringside. Man, Well you know something, Jimmy Hart, after what went down a couple of days ago with the clash, there's more than the w CW title that the maniacs and all the people have

to worry about. Brother, You know, Fader time is approach, yest dudes, And you gotta realize when you talk about the atmy of what wrestling's all about, that it's the greatest wrestler of all time. It was the greatest w c WV of all times. Old Cogan, Ess Vader, with all of this mean, nasty, dangerous analystics and all his credibility has got to be the Cootie Graw Wrestling is all about. Brother got the w c

W title. Here's a mere tricking as far as parties go. The fact that we're for the future, the real new generation of hulk Amniacs, the real new generations dug a fall all lead or the trade and the prayer of the Vidains in the Hulk Hogan credo. That's what we're fighting for. Brother and Jimmy Hart. Make sure all the details are in check when you get the pen in hand, as it's signed, sealed and delivered. Make sure Harley races in check, and this thing is left just between me and Vader.

Brother. Because of the rulers of Rick Flair, the rumors that he's hanging out of ringside, I just don't know what he's up to. I don't know if there's no lines between him and Vader. But however it goes holk Aniacs, you can best believe the Pythons won't be ready. The Hulk a Maniacs at ringside and all around the world are going to be ready. Invader. Once I focus on you, Brother, once I put you in a once position. Once I drop you on your head? What are you

gonna do when the art just arms in the world? Are you Wow? What a match up that's gonna be wc W Heavyweight champion Hull Cogan to defend against the four one hundred and fifty two pound number one contender and challenger Vader. Invader's corner is long time, manage your former seven times n W A champion, party race, Kang Swang Hang wng Wang Wanging, the real new Generation, that's fucking money. Thoughts on the promo, Uh, it just

sounds weird. I don't know, it's it's you know, Hogan Promo's kind of post flair. Hogan promo seemed lost to me. He doesn't seem on on point. Yeah, it sounds like he's trying to say things he doesn't want to explicitly say. Like he's making a lot of references to like physical

credibility. He's like, right, it's like trying to say shoot things through the lens of like his Carni talk, and it's like half the time what he says is like impenetrable, right, I feel like, but he's trying to say that Vader is a unique threat Vader, somebody that you know, is supposed to be somebody that I'm too cheesy to overcome. But when I put him in my fucking pile of victims like the rest, it's gonna be an accelerant for for health media. And look, Jimmy Hart such a negative

with Hogan, like such a negative it really is. It makes them look like such a tool that he needs this manager guy hopping around like what kind of baby face superhero needs a guy behind him in an airbrush jacket holding his title and waiting a Megan. It was. It was a unique thing in WWE because the whole story there, but you know, coming into ww it

just didn't work. No, you know, it didn't work. It makes it look like a prima donna frankly that he comes to the ring with like a handler, you know, or a guy who it's like, what's he

doing? Like why is he out here? First of all, a guy who is by far his most successful work was his heal manager, So it's like he's not even some of the fans are inclined to didn't give a shit about if he's playing a baby face and I know he was his real consigliary in real life and minding the ps and ques and kind of like Hogan's business manager behind the scenes. But absolutely no reason for Jimmy Hart to be out

there with him. And you know, it's all the set up the heel turnhere he joins with Kevin Sullivan and the Dungeon to doom, and I get that with Hogan, like whenever he has an alliance on screen, it's always like, you know, so they can turn on him eventually and he can do another year of business, of course, but but it's just just bizarre. So we're locked in and this is going to be folks. Uh, this is going to be like the last one for a little while because we're

locked in on Philly. Philly's coming strong. Oh yes, you know, we've got to deliver from members of the Solar System. We're gonna be with us. April seventh, high noon, Sunday Punchline. Philly is the club in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania is part of WrestleMania Weekend. Cannot believe boss the contingent that we expect in Philly. I'm I'm I'm very excited. I'm very very excited. It's uh, it's going to be It's going to be crazy. It's gonna be Seriously, if if last year was crazy, this is gonna

be off the fucking hook. There's like little pockets of lapsed fans that we you know, know and have hung out with and have dealt with, and they're always sort of like in their own silos. This is this is like every single every single little group that I've heard of of lapsed fans coalescing into,

like you know, their smaller discussion groups. We heard from Gabe, you know, yes, we did last time when we talked about the whole ball game and and the and the sort of smaller subdivision of the solar system that they that they created and found. There's like six of them that are going to like megapowers colliding mm hmmm hmm. And I can't wait to see it all play out. It's gonna be fucking that's going to be unreal. And you know the sick lineup of stand up comics they're going to be joining

us, including Lamar Lee, high Level Guy, hilarious dude. We shared an interview we did with him just last week on the Feed. He's going to be joining us on stage. Of course, Ray Goots are partnering crime putting this together, is going to join us on stage. Dave Pintowski from the ringside Colleptical Electable's Family is going to be there really excited about all of the folks that are going to be joining us to review what happens when the

Rocky steps back into the ring to team of the Roman reigns. I mean,

this is lab serendipity. I remember thinking like, yeah, it's perfect to have a Sunday afternoon show instead of a Sunday after But one thing it does deprive us of is the opportunity to sort of really digest two nights of Mania and digest Rock versus Roman, because when I was thinking about the show, that's my main event in my head yeap of course, and thinking like, oh, we're not gonna be able, but really, the way it's playing out, we're going to get to talk about rock wrestling one more time

because that's just a Saturday night thing. Is that guaranteed? Yes? So the stipulations now sit that if a Rock and Roman beats Seth and Cody, then Cody never gets another shot again. And it's bloodlined rules that is to say, notice qualification essentially and they can interfere to their heart's desire. However, if Cody and Seth win, there will be no outside interference and it'll be Cody and Roman clean on night two. Wow, So we're gonna have

a strong idea of how they deliver on that. It's pretty clear to me Rock turns on Roman. If not night one, he maybe he loses Night one and then comes around and stops the bloodline from interfering in night two and we go in that direction. I would lobby for Roman to turn on Rock before Rock and fucking around, just turn around and spear him for taking all the spotlight and kind of less walking in on his fucking legacy defining it.

And it would be good because he's talking about too, he's talking about what he I just watched one of the pro I just I don't know when it was, but I just watched this promo him singing a song, the Rock singing a song. I what a surprise, Holy shit. I just I just stumbled on on on on Instagram this evening and I just died. It was so fucking funny. And uh uh, I was like, he keeps calling himself what he keeps now he's calling himself the hottest heel in the business

since the eighties. He's calling himself a final boss. The that's the final boss, right, the final Boss. That's what it is, which is crazy fuck all the time on Instagram. Yeah, exactly, it's it's feeling different, hey, because you know why, because he's uh, he's the board of director. He's the director of the board. If the Rock says wrestling is cool again, does that make it true? I guess we're about to find out. Yeah, I guess, Hot Night, Hot Weekend,

Wrestlmania. Forty your co chairs on the ground to deliver the unscathing perspective that lapsed fans deserve what is known as the unvarnished truth. No sacred cows, no bullshit, no allegiance, no interest in being friends with anyone in the industry, only interested in delivering for our people who suffer the same ailment of

lifelong wrestling fandom. We do, yes, and if we're all going to be stuck on this boat together, we might as well enjoy the ride and work and work to keep the surf on the other side of the of the starboard. And so Punchline Philly the Venue, April seventh, noontime the time Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, the co chairs back on stage for the only WrestleMania preview and review show you need, and of course, only the true premium line

of live event, absolutely weekend. And if you think our friends in stand up comedy are the only ones that are going to be joining us here, you're totally wrong, because there's a rogues gallery of lapsed characters that I haven't on good authority going to be in attendance as well. I've been told that they might be making an appearance, and again, don't miss out on this because the window will close eventually. We are raffling off and authentic Terry Funk

branding iron to one attendee at Punchline Philly. If you buy your ticket at Punchline Philly and send us proof of purchase to the Lapsed Fan at gmail dot com, you get two entries in the raffle. For one of the premium tickets the preferred seating, you will get one for a general admission. We'll draw the winner. And you know, we got that branding iron from the Terry Funk estate sale as part of the Lapsed Funk Thrilled to see a video

sent to us on Twitter by a member of the Solar System. Turns out, in twenty twenty, Terry Funk stood in his kitchen boss and did a whole little speech about what this branding iron is. Wow, And I could tell by the unique grooves of it that is the exact one we came into

possession of. That's crazy. He was quick to point out in the video that this wasn't the one with like two crosses on it that he used in WCW and some of the more you know, the one you see when you first google like Terry Funk branding iron, you see him holding in promotional photos. But it's definitely one that he used extensively, pretty sure. And each W and the second w W run in two thousand definitely like Major League Wrestling

and stuff. Just a fascinating one of a kind piece. And we're proud to give one last salute to the great Terry Funk as we head to Philadelphia, the city that he carved out so much of his legacy in, And don't miss that opportunity because once we get on the ground and you know, sort of the pre sale mentality is behind us, we're not going to be

putting anybody else in play for the raffles. So tell anybody else you know that might be interested in this one of a kind collector's item that there's only one way to qualify to get it. That's to buy tickets. Send us proof of purchase the Lapsed Fan at gmail dot com and join us at Punchline, Philly, high noon, April seven. Not a fucking joke, not a fucking game is going to be high level shit. Oh yeah, And I can't think of a soul who won't regret it if they pass on the

opportunity to join us. And we hear you out in the Solar system who for one reason or another can't make it to Philly but would love to be there. You be there in spirit. We hear you, we see you. And I'm just fucking amazed at how many people are making the trip, especially when you consider a quotient boss that aren't even going to WrestleMania. That's

that's always the part that I that really that really gets me hard. Yes, that's correct, that's the word, all right, The fact that there are that many people who are coming to see us and don't give a shit about WrestleMania. And I'll buying airline tickets. It's we're strong on the East coast. There's a lot of driving, which is great, you know, a lot of driving distance fans. Yep. But the fact that people are getting on planes and not going to WrestleMania always blows my mind. It blew

my mind last year in la it blows my mind. This year in Philly. It'll blow my mind going forward. Absolutely, because the story of TLFX in ten years of the show has been you put energy into the atmosphere. You tell us that what we're doing is worth it, and we perpetuate it, and we give it back to tenfold, and then it comes back at us tenfold and everything grows at It's a beautiful cycle and no missteps are made

because we only respond to signals that you send us. You tell us it's worth it, we go hard, you tell us it's not worth it, we do something else. Yep. Very simple, and so we look forward to seeing everybody April seventh. Please, if you're interested in joining us, just google Punchline Philly. The venue. It's a wonderful venue from all indications in Philadelphia, very conveniently located, and join us in Philadelphia, jump to

their event schedule. Scroll down April seventh, you'll see the lapsed fan bozos, biceps and bullshit. Yes event, buy those tickets, send us that proof of purchase and join us. It's going to be an unforgettable evening upon forty years of WrestleMania and more importantly, ten years of the lapsed Fan. I'm fucking right. So we're in Baltimore, favorable press coverage, or at least a press that's interested in running some articles about the wrestling show coming to

town. Of all the papers, that Baltimore Sun is one that you can kind of count on to cover wrestling, just somewhat seriously, of course. And Hull Cogan picked up the phone and did an interview ahead of Super Brawl five. Try to get interest moving, ticket sales moving. And I wish Boss that you would share this article with the Solar System. February seventeenth, ninety five, Baltimore Sun. When you first meet Hull Cogan face to face,

make that face to belly button, the wow she's short? Yeah right? Seriously, yoh bro, if you kind of get a little bit lowered, you to give me exactly where I want you to. It's in front of my big python wrote this, Oh oh oh by Dylan Postel. Okay um uh, you are tempted to blurt out to the six foot seven two and seventy five pound professional wrestler, oh man, you are hute, and we do mean huge biceps like ham hawks, so large that a regular shirt

won't hold them. He wears denim cutoffs, thighs the size of redwoods. Everywhere you look at Hulkogan, there's muscle. Even his eyelids are muscular. That's not true. They're not, so I have a problem with it. Even his fingernails are muscular. This herculean sized man is affectionately called the Hulkster

by thousands of screaming Hulka maniacs. But he's just Terry to his wife of seven years, Linda, and Daddy to his two children, six year old Brook and four year old Nicholas. And that suits the Hulkster just fine. But he's just fuck you Terry to his wife of seven At the beginning, he was also called daddy by Linda while though it's been a while. Though, yes, even hulk Hogan has a sensitive side. The man who once picked up the five hundred pound seven feet tall on it brought five thousand pound

dude. Actually you're missing a zero there. He's twelve feet tall, brother, and slammed them down to the mat with a mighty thud. Now can be found picking up the kids from elementary school. Mister Hogan was in town recently to talk about his Super Brawl five match Sunday night against Vodder. Was your opponent Votder? I see, let me see they sent me some publicity here, so hope you're wrestling Vodder on Sunday? Can you tell us about

how you planned to approach the match against Votter? You No, we've called him that. I've called him that so many times, but you know, doing it and like thinking about actual like a like a TV news anchor making the mistake of calling him Vodder. It's funny, actually it's so not exactly I mean not even not even considered that Darth Vader. Like, this guy's

so so completely not involved in pop culture whatsoever. All right at the Baltimore Arena, as the Haulture says, though, this ain't no ordinary match, brother, that's because his World Championship Wrestling Heavyweight title is on the line. Mister Hogan forty one, Wow, I'm older than him. In at this show, like that's I'm older than him, and this is like thin faced Hogan would like that. Yeah right, the wristbands, right, he looks

older than ever. Honestly, he's only forty one. Jesus Christ. Mister Hogan forty one, says he has to work hard to keep up with the younger wrestlers, especially someone like Vader, who's so nasty. He wears it looks like a harness on his face. Ooh, that's written in there by the way I want you to know it is. Ooh is written in there that guy. That guy does scare me, said mister Hogan, looking decidedly unscared over lunch at the Polo Grill. Over lunch, like we need to

know he's eating a salad when this is happening. No matter what my think about wrestling, you know, being fake or choreographed or whatever, you have to admit that Vodder is scary. Say that again. That's that's actually what it says in the article. Go ahead. They didn't even have to have the writer say it's fake. Hogan offers it up. No matter what you think about professional wrestling, but being fake or choreographed or whatever, you have

to admit that Vader is scary looking. That's Hogan's ninety five bag. It's like, I'm gonna talk about how it's fake in my promos and how like the sky listen, I just want to be real, brother, represents a menace even in the abstract. Not know if you if you think about wrestling being real and you consider what voters all about, dude, I mean this is where the column of the line gets blurred. Brother, you know what is real? What is fake? Dude? I won't not only come out

of the ring. That's a good line. That is a good line. It's like how he didn't know if he was retiring right right, exactly great life. Ask why he got back into wrestling after a two year retirement, mister Hogan says he did it for his son. If my son never saw me wrestle, you, Nick would come home from nursery school and ask me,

you know, dad, what's hull comnia bullshit? As for what is typical day is like, it may surprise him to learn if the hulksure doesn't start it by downing a glass of raw eggs, running ten miles or going to the gym to bench press a few hundred pounds. It begins with Dad making breakfast for the kids, which used to piss off Linda, which I

thought is one of the best things in his second book. Of course, absolutely as always, for some reason, one of the kids have a big breakfast and she just come down and be like, what the fuck is this, Terry, Why don't you just have They can just have a bull cereal. It's funny how it pissed her off that you would make breakfast. Of course, I just love that, of course much, because you know what, because she would just be you know, this is this is this is

bad. I'm not I'm not taking sides here, although I totally am taking sides. Is that, you know, she'd be so lazy, she wouldn't want to make fucking I think, yeah, exactly food, and so she'd make it. And so now he's one upping her in an area that really is supposed to be you know, kind of taking taking not that I'm trying to say, you know, just their situation. She's supposed to be kind of the keeper of this es, of this domain, of this of this

realm. You know, this is where she is is the uh is the true is the Hulkster you know, like at home and taking care of the family, and here he is fucking coming in and kicking her ass and ripping open like packages of bacon, just like three packages of bacon. I want you to have like fifteen eggs. I got bacon, dude, I got sausage, I got I got, I got it. I got bread over ears holder make toast. He's sizzling by like eight point fifteen on a Sunday,

and she's not. She's no, exactly exactly. The whole fucking house smells like coffee and bacon, all right, And my best party, and the best party is to when push comes up, she gets none of it. Well, I mean it's there, it's all eating. It's all eating. You kid me, Come on, Hulk Hogan. You know you think he's not gonna eat it himself. Goods, come on in and get some eggs. Hey, they sit at the island. Hey kids, dude, just let's come on Brown brother, Hey Brooke teeny, I got some eggs.

I got some tiss for you, dude, Nick brother, Nick teeny, dude, I got look, I got the sausagel. They're watching like Nickelodeon right, Oh God, Terry, it smells awful. What the fuck she's like rubbing her eyes? Well, I just I just made some bris for the kids, dude, some briz, some briz. Yeah, brother, I made bris for the kids. I said, you know, I might as well come down. You know, I'm up early in the morning. Anyway, Brother, I might as well cook some things. Dude,

it'll make the kids, make the kids a nice big briz. Okay, he tucks. He talks in exact detail about the breakfast and eggs to please keep reading. I've got it down with science, eggs, sausage, and cinnamon toast seven minutes, he says proudly. Then I packed their lunches. I get the sandwich, the yogurt, the little fruit toots coe, uh, you know, and pack it into the Batman and Barbie lunchboxes. And it's off to school. Oh after these domestic chores are completed, does mister

Hogan head to the gym. After a couple hours of working out, he heads home. That's it, mister Hogan sends it the disappointment. I know it doesn't sound like much, he says, almost apologetically, but when you're at my age, you have to really work a stain in shape. So when I was single. He always talks about, saying like he harps on his single life like it's fucking I mean, obviously he probably misses it like nobody's business even at this point. Yeah, what he means by when I

was single, he means when I could do steroids. Right, we're very good. I mean when I was single, I think of nothing of going out all night and having fun. Now it's different. He even eats right, puts his napkin in his lap, like just like his mother taught him. You might expect a burly guys, which is mister Hogan, to order something like the raw meat d Jules. How about food, folks, I mean this article, Look what's happening here? I know it seriously is.

But instead it's two chill grilled chicken breasts with no butter, no salt, no grease, and egg white ahmet we spinach and mushrooms and a toss salad with red onions. Didn't we say when we asked bride Knobs? But Hogan

cooks for breakfast if he has egg white omelets exactly exactly. Omelets is right there, Oh Knobs, dude, you got the skill it going, brother, Give me one of those egg white dude, egg white omelet dude with the spinach and the cheese, dude, rights, maybe put a little you know what, brother, kind of put a little uh miss ushrooms in there. Brother, feeling a little frisky tonight. Dude, feeling a little frisky

tonight as he orders breakfast. I can't that big house from Holgan knows best that Belanda can't them coming down in like a bathrobe, like all sleepy like it's just too much. I can't. Mm hmm morning dude. So what do you think Vince is going to do with the paper? What's the dizz? Yo? What's the diz? Brother talking about that pay per view is coming up? Brother, what do you think Vince is going to plan for that? For the finish Dude? You think leg drop one, two three,

game over? Brother, That's what I'm thinking, Dude, what a surprise. Isn't that what you were thinking last month too? Terry, Well, I thought I kind of wanted to change it up a little bit, dude. Maybe have one, two three then leg drop? Yeah, beat him with a so get the pin, then drop the leg just bring back, bring back the axie boomba. Dude. Wow, No, kind of like you off the let's let's uh, let's let this Baltimore sunwriter gal us with just a few more food items. Uh. He notices that his lunch

companion is eating only a salad. This is too much food for me, he says, sounding vaguely like Ward Cleaver, and leave it to beaver. Then he puts some chicken on an extra plate for his companion. Gee, you'd think dad would cut the meat for you first. This is what it's come to with. Uh, he doesn't. I mean, I guess he's leaning into it, but not a superhero here. Well, dude, I

want to tell you, brother, I'm cold. What I want to do, dude, is long come to take things back a little bit, can dial things back in, you know, brother, because I want what I want to do is kind of bring into w CW the idea of action venture comedy. Brother. And that's why I think, you know, Hulkemania should be about. That's what I think w c W should be about, not blood and guts about you know brother. Yeah, we got the these guys over here, dude, they're like, oh, you know, you know

this is you know, you're damaging what we call wrestling. I'm like well, you know, dude, we're kind of taking in a little bit of a different direction, dude, kind of bringing the family's brother. You're kind of making it that action adventure comedy. Dudes to that more people can come to the table and see what's at WCW and this thing we're making. Brother, I'm intrigued. I mean, we got this thing over here, and somebody said at one point, I think what he said, you know this

thing we got to we're taking this thing to the next level. Brother, clearly, yeah, we want right now, we're about here, dude, we gotta take this thing up here. Bro, we're building something new. You know, we got to con you know, we're taking things to the next level. Brother. So that's the play with Terry, you know, Family Man, somebody who's just like more cookie cutter than ever. Interestingly, Oh yeah, and this is what he's giving up when he turns here in

ninety six. This is the exact you know, marketing plan that he turns us back on articles like this and Family Man coming off testifying against Vince. Of course, in the summer of ninety four, the week BEFO for beating Flair at Bash of the Beach. You know, it's a new Hogan, but in a lot of ways, it's the old Hogan just less interesting, you know, just even more Anna Dye than the original babyface Hulcogan run.

So meanwhile, Vader gets himself a bit of ink in the Pittsburgh Post to Gazette, future w CP commentator Mark Madden writing this up maybe pro wrestling's most incredible sight ever. The six foot five, four hundred and fifty pound wrestler climbs to the top rope inexplicably facing away from the ring, away from his prone opponent than he Moon Salts does a backwards flip onto his foe. No

ordinary move. But then Vader, former All American defensive lineman for the University of Colorado's football team and the next Los Angeles Ram is no ordinary wrestler. He's been wrestling nine years and has been a recognized world champion eleven times. He's been world champion for Ted Turner owned World Championship Wrestling three times. Vader WCWUS Champion and World Champion for Japanese promotion UWFi. Yes, Vader had a deal boss at the time that allowed him to work Japan and he was the

champion of the UWFi organization, a shoot style group Wow. At the same time, he's wrestling Hogan on pay per view, so you can imagine how that complicates. Is his interest in doing the clean or for the Hulkster wrestles Hulk Coogan for the w W World Heavyweight title in the Super Bowl pay per view Sunday at seven pm. Vader began life as Leon White thirty eight years ago. Injuries cut his football career short, but he quickly became a sensation

in wrestling. In nineteen ninety, he was recognized world champion on three continents at the same time. I'm lucky to have conquered the globe in wrestling, he said over the phone from Tokyo. I've been called the best big man in wrestling, but I think I'm one of the best period. I take a back seat to no one, not even Hulk Hogan. M I see Sunday's match as the largest event in wrestling's last twenty years, said Vader. It's the match people want to see, Like Fraser Ali, I don't really

like Hogan, but I respect him. Does Hogan want to wrestle me? I don't know. Ww CD has to last twenty years. I don't know about last twenty years. Yeah, that's pretty big. I think you'd say maybe the last five years. Yeah, you can't say it's bigger than Andre Hogan. I'm sorry. Oh, not even close. You can't say it's bigger than any of a WWF pay per view headlines. Really, it's the match people want to see. Like Fraser Ali, I don't really like Hogan,

but I respect him. Does Hogan want to wrestle me? I don't know. W CW says he has to. I'm certainly not afraid of him. Bravado Aside wrestling results are pre mmmm. Bravado Aside wrestling results are predetermined, period, period, right now, all right, you got to put that fucking in there? All right? You write that there for a second. Come on, come on, I get this column here on this Veda

guy. Look, I'm looking. I'm looking. I've read it three times, mark, and I don't see what I need to see in here. Look, I want to tell you quotes. I've read this. Yeah, yeah, you got great quotes. But you know what, this was one thing that's missing, and it's very important because really this is what the story

is all about, all right, see see miss you missed. If it's not happens too much when you write about this stuff, all right, then this is the thing I like, I've let you have, you know, I let you go along, you know, and do your thing a couple of times, and and you keep dropping the ball. You gotta say, this ship's fake already anywhere in here that wrestling is pretty determined. How how are we supposed to keep credibility with our readers? You don't listen. The

credibility is the fact that we are saving their lives. Their lives are endangered with these assholes, all right. They are having the wool pulled over their fucking eyes by these sons of bitches. So what I need you to do is I need you to recognize what it is that I'm saying, all right, that that it doesn't matter what what this fucking, this fucking humpy dumpty clown said all right to you in your fucking interview culvator, A humpty dumpty

clown. That's awesome, all right. He's a bitch, he's a fucking he's a fucking oath. It's not even a real fighter. He's not even a real fucking fighting he he he pulls his punches. You know, he's he's, he's he's a loser, all right, he's him using an M M A glove in Japan. And think that changes anything. Oh I'm sorry, Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, now he's now he can fucking look at he's. He's waffling people in the fucking corner there. It doesn't matter.

It's all bullshit. It's all bullshit. And I don't give a ship what he says, because he his job. His job is not to tell you the truth. His job is to lie to you. That's what his job is. And I'm not gonna let him lie to our readers. He doesn't need to say that it's fucking fake. I'm telling you to put in your fucking article that it's fucking fake. I know the truth, you know the fucking truth. Do you want to keep your job? Of course I do. How do I keep your apartment? What do you want to keep your

life? Intact? I will beat the ship out of you. I will step on your fucking face. I'll go find your mother, I'll step on her fucking face. Well, let me ask you a question, mark, Do you want me to stab you? Right now? Let me let me ask you something. Let me let me let me ask you this. Do you know what this is? Do you see what I got in my hand? It's a fucking gun. I got a loaded fucking gun. It's a

word. He isn't pushed back at all. I got a loaded fucking gun, cocked and fucking loaded right now, and I'm aiming it at your fucking face. What do I need to do to not get shot in the face? Do what I fucking said and make it in the fucking article that this ship is fucking fake and you're a fucking dick. Here's what you write,

Okay, Bravado Aside Comma. Wrestling results are pre determined, right, I want to if you want to make it classy, I understand you want to keep it a little bit of your bullshit bitch ass reputation in this paper. You can buy something like bro Voda aside. All these things. Wrestling matches are all predetermined, all right? Could we come to an agreement on that? Is that a good enough compromise for you? I'm listen, I'm pulling the trigger right now. The trigger was pulling. I got it. I'm

halfway there. I thing it's shaking. Mark. I'm halfway there. Huh, you're gonna do it? Or do I have to kill you and right it myself. Let's forget all the rules of this great country of ours. This is the freedom of the press, freedom to tell the truth, the freedom to protect the citizens of this fucking country from from ingrates from fucking fascists like these pro wrestling bitches. I tell you something about America. The only

way to protect those rights, mark is to exercise them. And if you're not going to exercise the freedom of the press to tell the truth, then you're doing the opposite. You're fighting against freedom by not putting wrestling as fake. Let me tell you something, if you don't exercise the freedom of the press, I will execute you with the freedom of my right to fucking buy arms. This is pretty clear that exercise I could ask of you. Now,

get to you fucking typewriter and put this ship up right? It right? Right, that it's fake, Right, that it's right, that it's bullshit right, everyone already knows is predetermined. Why don't have to fucking care what people know? You're gonna We're gonna have to listen. If ship hasn't sunk into the people yet, we're gonna keep reminding them and reminding them and reminded them until they fucking get it. And if they don't fucking get it, what does it mean to get it? What do you want them to

do to to prove to you that they get it? Because I think they already do. No, they know, because if they got it, they wouldn't be going to the ship and wasting their fucking money. All right, They are being brainwashed, they are being hoodwinked, they are being completely disturbed by these pieces of shit, these crumb bums, these crumb bums, all right, that's what they are. They're fucking crumb bums. I kill crumb bums. Wow, all right, don't get the fuck over there, Get

behind your fucking desk, right the goddamn article. Remind the people that what they're watching is fake, that what they're paying for is fake, that people know the outcome. You don't fucking buy tickets for the Super Bowl if you don't if you know that what the fucking outcome is gonna be. Look, I understand where you're coming from when you say you know, Why why should I have to tell people that that it's predetermined? Everybody already knows it.

Why should I have to do it? And I'm thinking, I know why because look what's in my hand. Yeah, I know why, because I get a gun to your fucking head. That's why. Yeah, your boss, you can go sucking till anybody you want. My boss had a fucking gun to my head. He was gonna kill me. And you know what, they'll come to me, the police will come and I'll say, yeah, I did because I was I was doing it for the people of this country. That's right. I'll be glad to go to jail for this.

I don't mind going to jail for protecting people, gentlemen. This is democracy manifest Bravado. Aside, wrestling results are predetermined pagraph Thank heavens too. That's a good one by Mark. Thank kills someone if they weren't. If not, my boss will he is, Yeah, exactly projecting much there, Mark. He is considered perhaps the toughest man among pro wrestlers, adept at martial arts, brawling and technical wrestling. As if that's not enough to make him

a drawing card, he does dynamite, blood and guts interviews. He's definitely wrestling's most fearsome persona. And then there's that moon Salt. I never really practiced it. I just sort of pictured it in my mind and did it, he said Vader okay, later, looking to excite the buying public ahead of super Brawl. Yes, indeed, well, looking back on it, it would not be a knight that he relished very much at all. He

sat for our video at a shooting interview. I think it's way back in ninety eight, and it's it's it's pretty much the first time we heard Vader kind of talk, you know, from the hip about his career. And here's how he sized up everything that happened. He'saly health kilget in super Bowl five, heard that Hogan was coming in. Now, you at the time, even up to that point, you know, as Flair was just starting to come back, you were the top dog more or less in the company.

You've been there, champion for a long time. You were You've kept the door open with Sid. What was your reactions when Hogan was coming in, because you got to know right away, you know, when when when Rick double cross gate for the title. Yeah, it was took dotsy job two days for Bige and I left. My first reaction was no, you know, he said, well, I'm gonna keep the time, said,

don't you know. You know, I said, that's not what we talked about the dot the agreement on which you don't and Rick, that simply can happen, you know. And we had long, big discussion, and you know, after probably fifteen ors two hundred promises maybe for the future, I said, okay, okay, let's go ahead and just get out of this cage match best what we can. And then really I thought maybe he had stuff his onn toe there where he was whole coming in hope what lose.

No matter what he had told Rick, you know, they would trade off a few I mean, he'd beat Rick four straight, you know, and penned him four straight, and that certainly didn't do Rick any good way. So I figured, well, you know, maybe after winning four straight, and then then he went to his buddy what's his name, uh Savage. You mean as far as the title, Yeah, he went to the butcher,

the barber beefcake produce. In other words, yeah, he went from Vlaar and then he chose his apponent, which was the butcher, I guess at the time, butcher, the beefcake whatever. And I mean obviously the biery was horrible, horrible. So it was like, okay, boom, Vader to the rescue, right, Yeah, that's resurrected thing. And I sat down with with Eric and I said, look, you know, the guy just went four straight on Rick Clair. He just beat you know.

And the best thing for Hogan, the best thing for Vader, the best thing for this company is is with Flair as my manager because Harry was hurt at that time, Flair was gonna walk but walking out with me and my manager, with Flair my manager, I said, I have to go over. I said, one the only one from the deal with with the star ky thing with Flair. But the best thing for the company is you know,

I've got to go over this first time on Hogan. And I'm not talking about a clean one, two three, but I'm talking about it. I mean, I don't care give Flair Bezuka and shoot him in the back somehow. Let me walk out of that belt and get the heat. Because you know, no matter no matter how hard I walked out in the match against Hogan, you no matter how hard I get, I tried to get

the people to hate me. I mean they were cheering me and bluing Hogan at this time, you know, it was it was getting to the point

where it's very obvious Hogan either needed to quit or become a heal. Obviously you initially end up doing it. And at one point had told Eric and what you know, that I would have to consider, you know, if if you don't do what's right for for for me, if you don't want to do what's right for me, and if you don't want to do it right for Hogan, if you don't want to do what's right for yourself, then do it right for the company, because then you imagine had I went

over that first match with Terry right, and had Terry had the sense I mean you talk about a swerve. I mean he kicked out of my mind. He got got up off my finish before the series, and he told me, you know, I was told to give it to him. He was gonna lay there. He's thinking, I know, he got up, and you know, what are you thinking at that point? Well, I'm thinking, you know, Jesus, this is this is how these guys get

over this. They backstabb you. And and yeah, I mean I thought, what you know, and you know, I was making good for the era. I mean, you know, I wasn't making the kind of money Hogan's making day and certainly wasn't making kind of money bread Hearts making. But for that time, I was, you know, I was making right at you know, right at that seventh figure mark. Uh and uh and that was a lot of money for the time and a lot of money today.

But you know I had I had to give a lot of thought you know about that, you know, just saying no, this is the way it's going to be, or you know, you can fire me and and I'll go up and doctor fans. Yeah, and uh, looking back on that one, Uh, that's that's without question, that's what should have happened, because the next three match would be off with the kind of business we could have done, you know, would have the farce passed what we did. No lies detected. Wow, he lays it all out, doesn't he.

That's right? I mean, just uh, just out Fox at the table. You know, this is absolutely come on. I mean, you know it's really it's it's Vigder's fault one hundred for not either preparing for it or not you know, doing something about it. Because he was there enough to watch Hogan walk all over Flair and and and change, change finishes and stuff like that for the first year that he was there, like the fact that he didn't fucking catch on like he was going to be any different. Like

that's what it is. It's when you realize you're not any different. You're not any different, Listen, You're all the same in his eyes. And he made it seem like, you know, let's resurrect the Vader thing because the buy rate for Star Kid was so horrible. Dude, you shot the angle for the match on that pay per view like a month and a half before they even knew if the show did one by right, you know,

got to be careful with Vader too. He would he would take his sour grapes and like kind of structure reality to act like he had signals that he didn't really have. And when you watch the match, I mean, this thing that's supposed to get him so pissed off, he certainly gets right in a position after Hogan's up from his finish, no problem, and it carries himself in a way where he totally expects Hogan to do that. I don't

know, it didn't really jump out to me what he's talking about. I mean, I've heard I've heard the story that Hogan, that Hogan no sold the the power bomb and killed it, and I and I heard, I've heard that for I've never seen the show, by the way, until we watch it for this, Oh wow, I've never actually watched it, and so I've had that in my head the whole time. I have that in my head, like, oh yeah, so I'm gonna wait for Hogan. He's gonna no sell the the the power bomb here, and then he sells

it, and I'm like, what's everyone fucking talking about? He sells it for a minute, he convulses on the canvas. Vader covers him, and he kicks out before a one and he's up and punching it within it. No, that's it's the again. Vader does another move. Vader goes for a splash. Yeah he does. Yep. Vader goes for a splash, and that's when Hogan kicks out. So he doesn't have anything to do with

the fucking power bomb. It's the splash. Well, he gets well, Vader power bombs and covers him, and Hogan gets up immediately and starts punching him in the head with no cell whatsoever. I don't I mean, I'm not I'm gonna take a look right back. Yeah, that happens, because I know I know he does that. I know he does that, but I'm pretty sure it's after a splash and it's not immediately after and then splashes him. Yeah yes, yeah, so so he kicked out of two things

instead of one. Well right, but it's not like he again. To me, the idea is, and I've always this is what I always have thought about in wrestling, is that you do one move and then, in a weird way, the next move you do kind of negates the last move. Oh well, see, that's not how I think about it. I think of it as if they happened back to back. It just piles on the punishment. It's even more impressive when you kick out of a power bomb

plus splash than just kick out of the power bomb. But not when you have a moment of so so do you Technically that isn't kicking out of the power bomb. It's kicking out of the splash. Kicking out of the splash. Yeah, well, whatever it was. I mean, you know, if I were to take a guess, is what he's talking about. It's not that Hogan kicks out. Okay, so here, okay, this is what it is, so okay, I'm watching it back right now. Okay,

I got it on silent. Randy Anderson is down, Vader picks him up, power bomb, goes for the pin and clearly gets the pin. He's Hogan's down, he's covered with the referees out the no ref count. Flair comes in, registers a three count, stomps Hogan, stomps no, stomps on Randy Anderson, and then Vader gets up. So all this time, Hogan's been recuperating right from the power bomb, and then he splashes him and then he gets right, yeah, and then Flair stomps on Hogan,

big splash and then to count. Actually it's a two count as a two and then he's up like and then Hogan's up like like like Hogan does. Right, but I'm sorry he sold the power bomb and even let Vader get

the visual pillar. We're talking about Hulk Hogan here. I think what he does is he doesn't do like the Hogan like Hulk up where you punch and he builds and no, because he did that already, he did that earlier on right, So I think Vader might misread it as him just mixing it up the comeback, because it's kind of uncharacteristic the way he springs to his feet and just rushes Vader. He rushes Vader almost like he's he's going to catch him by surprise. Honestly, right put him in a position to be

dancing to his tune because he's in his face punching him in. Vader didn't necessarily expect that that's what it seemed. Maybe, but I honestly I was like I was. To me, it didn't come across as bad as what I'd always heard, right, I think what matters most is what they went into the ring expecting, you know, and one of those expectations were reasonable. I'm sure Hogan would have a story about how Vader misinterpreted something and we

go from there. I just don't think that. I don't think he damaged the power bomb at all. I don't think he damaged that finishing hold. He sold it and took the visual pin that was the whole point on the pay per view in Caesar's and the clash in Caesar's in January, Vader powerbombs Hogan, and Hogan kicks out at one and gets right up. So this idea that the power bomb was sacred and then Hogan was going to sell it, that's already yesterday's news. I don't know why we forget that, but

Vader does. I just guess he had a different expectation in the ring that night. Of course, Hogan's never talked about it. Hogan doesn't mention Vader in either of his books, and I've never really seen him talk about him in any interviews. It would be kind of a random thing to ask Covid about anyway, but I've never seen it. But when Eric Bischoff covered the show in the eighty three Weeks podcast with Conrad Thompson, as he's wont to

do, he sort of speaks for Hulk Hogan a listen directly. He doesn't like to say that, but he kind of is. Of course, Eric was senior VP and Executive producer WCW at this point in time, so the situation is already well ensconced. Wherein Bishoff essentially does you know Hulk Hogan's prerogative right ten times out of ten? And so here he is delivering a bit of context as to how Hogan was feeling coming into the match with Vader.

The other part of it was legitimately Hogan had concerns about working with Vader. Rather, the primary concern was that Vader's style, although he was so capable and after watching this match back, you know, it only reinforces that that feeling on my part. Vader was so capable of working with anybody in any sally wanted to. Unfortunately he had you know, he had a track record. He was a unpredictable personality. You never knew which Vader you were going

to get, which is why Harley Race was his manager. By the way, Harley Race wasn't Vader's manager because Vader couldn't dok. Vader could cut a pretty good promo given the opportunity and a little bit of direction. But Harley Race was there to talk Vader off the cliff more often than not and try

to manage him and get what we needed out of him creatively. So, you know, I think that Hulk was concerned about, you know, Vader's willingness and that ability, willingness to work you know, a Hogan style match until a Hogan style story as opposed to the type of stories and the types of matches that Vader typically was involved in where he basically ate everybody a lot live. So those were two issues. I'm not going to you know, minimize the second, but I'm also not going to just you know, gloss

over the first. You know, there was no there was no urgency in getting that match out there because we knew it would be a big match, We knew it would probably sell out, we knew it would be a draw on pay per view, and we wanted to build it correctly as correctly as we could. Okan had concerns about working with Vader Brother. Dude. You know, I'm just not digging this creedy. Can you come in here, dude, You take a see Brother easy easy? What's up? Brother?

Uncle dude, Uncle, brother? The kids? Brother? What's his name? What's the kid's name? Garrett? How's g how's G biz? Brother? How's G Man? How's G Easy? How's how's geezy? Dude? I want to talk about Vader Brother. This match coming up here, and we got we got watch watch. I wanna tell you watch a lot of stuff, dude, not only in WCW, but I've also watched some of his japan stuff. Brother, I'm telling you, you know, I don't know. We get to kind of dial in that offense. I don't know

what you know, I don't know what Vader to expect. That's the thing, bro. You know, I've seen I've seen different kinds of Vader brother, and I'm I'm I don't know exactly what I'm going to be getting, Dude. I've seen the Vader working with Flair brother, I've seen the Vader working in Japan with Missala. Dude. I've seen all these things, bro, I mean, I mean, also, he is he big Van Vader brother? Is Evader? Is he super Vader? Dude? You know what's

the Diz brother? That he's super Vader? I am, I'm I'm I'm concerned dude, that I don't know who I'm wrestling and that I don't know what's going to happen. Yep, that sounds about right now. The Observer was reporting at the time that Vader had two years left on an existing deal but was pushing for a renegotiation. It's very clear that when Hogan came in, the sort of a nature of WCW contracts was busted wide open, and

that all kinds of things exceptions were being made. I guess you could say, or new deal structures were now suddenly possible that never would have been entertained before he came in. You know, Savage got an incredible deal and all this stuff's guaranteed and everything, and everyone's looking for, you know, a piece of this new kind of normal on the back of I suppose higher revenue expectations from doing that, many more pay per views and Hogan adding to the

pay per view bottom line and some licensing starting to flow. Bischoffs talked a lot credibly. I think about how Hogan opened a lot of doors to people willing to put a check in WCW's hand to license their merchandise that they never would have gotten before L. Cogan came in. So while you can look at you know, how show attendance and TV ratings and stuff and saying, eh, Hogan wasn't as big of a difference maker as as you would have

thought or expected, and even pay per view. You know, he definitely boosted pay per view, but perhaps not to the degree justified by his contract. There were some licensing opportunities that equaled real money that he opened the door for as well. So all that said, there's more money slashing around. It seems like or at least the purse strings are now loosened somehow and people

are looking to make deals. And The Observer reported, and Bischoff kind of brushed this off on the podcast, but that Vader was trying to push for a three year extension and that perhaps the politics of who goes over and the Super Bowl match was kind of hanging in the balance and those negotiations. Bischeff says, it wasn't true. It had nothing to do with money, and it's got nothing to do with me or ww. Vader didn't make that play.

He just didn't. I think Eric was sort of saying, you know, did Vader say, give me a three year contract and I'll do the honors. No. But I don't think that's explicitly what the report says necessarily anyway. But when it comes to him commenting on how the match actually played out and how Vader kicked out of the leg drop, which he pointed out right, that's a big deal. Eric is sure to remember that piece of

the story. One other high spot in this match for all the Hogan haters out there, at two hours, thirty nine minutes, Vader kicks out of Hogan's finish. So there you go, as hard as Vader work to make Hogan look good. Hogan did the same thing for Vader, which is one of the reasons why this match wasn't nearly as bad I think as some people

would like to have assumed it would be. And I don't know if people assumed it would be a bad match or not, but it's one of the only times I can ever remember where Hogan match won best match on the Observer reader poll. Wow did it really? Yeah? This was best match of the show according to the ors. It's a good match. It is good. No, it's great, it's great, And honestly, it's you know, it's a different type of match. It's it's a Hogan is Hogan looks

like he's in danger? Right, Yeah, we get to see a Hogan fight in a different way. You're in danger. Yeah, have to overcome two or three more mountains and usual, right right, it keeps going after the typical Hogan nets would have already exhausted itself. And yeah, who's counting, right Bischoff recording the exact fucking time code on the fire where Hogan helm Oh my god, it's the leg dropping Vader kicks out to Vader's point in terms of why he didn't win the title and how that was best for WCW.

Here's the boss, Eric Bischoff, responding to that line of thinking. Yeah, the baby faciation. But I think the consensus was that Hogan hadn't had the belt long enough yet. You know, you don't want to start flipping and flopping that soon. That's one school of thought, and I can see both both sides of that. To be honest with you, there was there any sort of hesitation on either guy. You know, listen, fans would say, oh, neither guy wanted to lose this. Do you want

to correct that narrative? Or I mean, yeah, that wasn't true. I mean, I think Vader really really wanted to work with Hulk. Of course he really did. And I don't think it mattered to Vader whether he went over or not. It really didn't. I think with Vader, you know, Vader's politics were all about money and not so much you know,

his ego. Vader. I think Vader and I'm just guessing now, we didn't have talks about this or anything like that, but my impression was that Vader was smart enough to know that if he went in there and he had a great match with hug You know, his his leverage, his opportunity to improve his position, would have been on the flip side of that, not on the front side of it. So for Vader, it was just I think an opportunity to get in there, improved that he could have a good

match and proved that he could have chemistry with Hogan when everybody was kind of betting against that. Now, I know you're looking for leverage here, brother, but just from one professional to another, I've been through a lot of fires, dude, I think your leverage isn't so much, you know, in agreeing to lose to Wholthoven. I think the leverage, brother, comes in when you lose the whole heaven. Think about it, huh. I

thought about it, Terry. I don't go Well, I just want to say, dude, I you know, brother, But that's the thing, dude, See you see, no one kind of thinks that kind of on that level. You know. I'm asking everyone to kind of think on a different level so that we can take this thing that we're building here, brother, to the next level. So how does me losing instead of winning help my bargaining position. Well, what it does, dude, is that it says, you know what, brother, I took a shot at hulk Hogan.

You know, well, will I beat hulk Hogan? But hul Hogan beat me? Brother, Well what happened? What exactly? Dude? They're confused, brother, And so it's like that's your bargaining power. Brother, I know I can beat hulk Hogan. But you didn't beat Hulkogan. But I know I can. Right See, that's where it comes in, brother, It's a psychological advantage that you have over everybody else. Dude. It's not about it's not about what happened, right, It's about what can happen.

Dude. Wow, leon to see it. By way, we have a match at Super Bowl, I win. We have a match it uncensored, I win. We have future matches I win. You gotta understand, brother, we gotta This is what you gotta think about. Dude. You gotta think about Long Game, brother, of the Long Game for three years. You know. It's it's like if if if you kind of go back and forth and have this kind of this fifty to fifty titles like oh dude, oh look Hogan, the Hogan's in the bile of vaders go. I

don't even know who's they both have the title? Dude? Do they not have? Is there no title? Brother? And I'm what I'm telling you, dude, is that is that we want. I want to build And I'm telling you, brother, this is this is the truth. I'm not lying to you. I want to build to a lengthy Vader run, brother, Like a total lengthy Vader run, dude, at the hands of hulk Hog. Do you mean a title run Terry? That's what I well, brother, I'm talking about a run dude. Yeah, But what do you

mean by run? Like a run bank? You know? Brother? Like like you ever see uh you know it's wonderful life, dude. Yeah, they're gonna run on the bank. I wanted you to have a run with the bank, brother, A run that is bank, dude, A run with the money in the bank, A run with money in the bank. Brother, No, no, Leon, All right, let me slice it and dice it a different way. See if you can't get on the same page with me when I talk about, dude, let's kind of slizten dis

this brother, let's listen. So when I talk about wait a minute, did you wait a minute? Hold on, let me look at it. Did you sign this, dude. I thought, Uh, dude, I thought before he got in here, he's going to sign this piece of paper. Brother, whoa, whoa this NDA? You didn't sign this, dude, Dude, we got I'm sorry. Brother, We've been talking all this time, but we haven't been papered on the deal. Dude. Is that what you're telling me right now? Well? Are you? Why don't you

sign it? Brother? I'm dude, I want to do you want to get an understanding brother? Because you did? There's ever h what do you say? What? What did your attorneys talk to mind before this meeting? That's want to say, Dude. I don't have any conversation brother without people sign an NDA. So first of all, everything I just said is null and void. It's a brother non admissible Dude. You can't, yeah do

you cannot admit this to any any legal issue. We got to shut this down, dude, I think dude, you know what, dude, we call the cops having secure all exits. Dude, I think I think right now, do you have sealed your own fate brother by not doing what's best for business? Has a way only you've sealed your own fate brother in this

matter? Because I was here offering you the world, and now all of a sudden, I find out that you didn't sign the NDA, which is what really is supposed to get this whole ociation, this whole discussion moving forward. Brother, That's how Hulk overs to do like giving things with this like k fabe nd a thing like the wrestler never saw the NDA. And then when he says that, he's like, well, attorneys didn't tell you, but maybe your attorneys aren't to be trusted. And then he has a choice

but to go back on everything. I got to go over one, two three. Now, I mean I can't. I can't. I try to do this, but I can't. I can't have this any any sort of this kind of thing leaked out, brother to the press, dude, to to to New York dude, any of the stuff. So I gotta everything I said, dude is null and void. Brother, We're going with the with the with the the original finish dude of meat going over. I'm going to pin you at at super Bowl. I'm gonna pin you at at Uncensored.

I want to pin you on the road dude, at house shows. I'm gonna pin you at slamber Ree. Brother, and then I'm going to pinion the cage at at at bash of the beach. Why the only way can you sign the papers? Brother? If you sign NDA? Dude, we could have we got to talk to Turkey brother, and you sign it? Oh? I mean, what was with with your mind? Dude? Why Why didn't you sign this non disclosure? Dude? Why why do you

have was just like step one and a pier plan? Why? I guess I want to know, dude, why are you so eager to disclose? There it is? I was looking for it, you lay it. I guess what I mean, brother, is why are you so eager to disclose? Awesome super brawl five? But yeah, I had to do with pay Vader in his book. With all the new signed talent and the price tags involved, with Hogan taking the main spots up for him and his friends,

all this must have cost substantial amounts of crazy money. Since I didn't always see eye to eye with Eric, it was often stubborn and protecting my character, I guess I no longer fit into his plans. Couple this with the fact that since I wasn't in the Hogan click, I think Eric eventually decided to figure out a way to sideline me and keep some of my payouts for his new pals. So yeah, Vader's hardly the only one to say that.

Dustin Rhodes is going to say it later too, where when Hogan comes in, it suddenly seems like people are getting fired for infractions that they never would have been fired for in the past, and it happened to be big earners that are getting fired. Of course, Vader's case, he has a fight with a Paul Arndorf at the second nitro before the second nitro and gets

fucking shit canned. So yeah, this is the fucking opening credits for god knows how long, oh my god, they kept him in they did, which tells you there wasn't some long drawing out conspiracy to get rid of him if they invested to put him into the intro. But here's and he'd be in WWF at no time. He said that he should have called Vince right after this. It's sort of like, you know, not even gone down this road sure with Hogan, but that was his leverage, you know that

I could call Vince and shift the tide a little bit. We're going to go to Vaders book now for a full recounting and a bit more blow by blow detail than he provided in that clip from the art video shoot interview course. I think it was released posthumously actually after Vader died. I think the book came out. Remember we we saw his son had one of the conventions

and he was hawking the book. So, bossif you could give the Solar system a taste from Leon White's to their ears, absolutely the dude Vader Vodder Vodder. There we go. Nobody made good on Dusty's promise, which was fairly getting the belt back after start Gate. From what I heard, there was some talk and scheming on how to reduce my infringement on Hogan's potential TV

time when Rick Flair started wrestling again. Apparently the politicians wanted me gone from the main events scenes so there would be less spotlight to share and more money for them. In the end. It was kind of like the same mentality as pepsi and coke. Okay, I always love coke references. I don't know what the fuck that even how that even he'll explain. Okay, the two mega companies dominate the entire scene, so only they can own it all.

You only get one or the other and no other companies even make a dent in their share like A and W or RC Cola or as for that matter, it's right. I've also been told that the whole Paul Orndorff incident was a bit of a setup, as someone was looking for a reason to put me in the doghouse and keep Flair and Hogan happy awesome knocked down. A step after the thunder Caage, executives took me out of the main event

scene. I knew it was coming, and it bugged me. I knew not to say anything, but I figured maybe I could make my actions speak louder than words in the ring and force them to keep me in the mix. The Thundercage was him and Flair at the prior years super Brawl. Yeah, and also the hold on so in the little you know, the thing that comes from the kindle it sah, yeah, this is white leon, you know, walking on walking on hot waffles. I don't know what that's

about. What the does that mean? No, I don't know. Eating hot waffles is more like it butter and syrup, you know, like most people get like you know, if you order a waffle at a restaurant, you get one but but you know, Vader wants to like a like a stat stack in case but with waffles though, and just like completely soaked in sky. Yeah yeah, like five waffles high. What are you doing? Man? Eating it? It's like, I mean, I love waffles,

but come on, dude, stop it. I love that this guy don't even do this and we just go I mean, I love waffles, dude, but stop it. He didn't do anything. It was all made up. We've made it up, telling him to stop it, like he's trying to get something in under the door. You know. I heard the stories, all right. I've heard the stories of him at fat Camp and absolutely you know, running out to get fucking what a burger in and out whatever the fuck it is. In the Stark title match, they put me over

dug In to win the US title. It was kind of cool having this title, as it gave me back some recognition from the fans. But just when things started to show a little hope for me, I was forced to end my on screen alliance with Harley Race In January of nineteen ninety five. Harley was in a pretty bad car accident and forced to leave WCW to recover Harley's drinking had caught up with him. He retired from wrestling around nineteen ninety

one, and I'm pretty sure that took a toll on him. Without the rigors of the job, he worked out less and ballooned up to more than three hundred pounds. I knew gain the weight pissed him off. Leaving the spotlight also depressed him, so I think he took to the bottle even more. Without the physical side of the business anymore. To neutralize his avid alcohol consumption, Harley just drank whatever he wanted. Yes, there was no match

the next day he needed to worry about. I think Harley realized he was only going to play second fiddle from now on. The fact that he was out there in front of those people performing in the ring may have made him feel old. And Harley was a proud man. He was revered as being one of the toughest guys in the industry and probably didn't like this change.

After sticking around the business for a few years as a manager, promoting the stars such as Lex Luger, Steve Austin, and myself had all wound down to a horrible finish. After one night of drinking, his sorrow away. In January ninety five, he crashed his car into a concrete barrier near Kansas City. The impact fractured his forearm and crushed his hip. Harley Race hasn't set a foot, hasn't said foot in a big league wrestling ring since,

except for a few minor cameos. The news of this unfortunate accident crushed me as well. I felt horrible that was the that this was the end for him. Not only was I emotionally hurt for him, but selfishly I knew my career I would suffer as well. It was then that I realized that he had played a big role in keeping me going behind the scenes. I also felt bad for his family, whom I had grown close to for many years. Turns out that Harley fought battles for me that I didn't even know

existed. He squashed heat I may have received for being too stiff. He squashed heat for me saying something I didn't mean from having a short fuse. He kept my brand alive in WCW and well into the spotlight. He was such an advocate for me that when he was gone, I could tell right away that his absence was the beginning of the end For me, Harley was the political guy in our team, and with him gone, I was left to float alone in a sea of politics where I unfortunately didn't know how to

swim. Looking back, I have to give Harley all the banks in the world. He really was a mentor and looked out for me when nobody else would. Thanks Harley. At first, Eric Bischoff didn't know much about the business. He couldn't find his ass with both hands as far as wrestling was concerned. Back then, the thing that Eric had going for him was that he was smart. Eric was intelligent and well spoken, and a good looking guy on camera. I mean that's what he was hired for because he looked

like a mannequin Vader's awesome. Before he became the executive producer of television for ww he may not have known much about running a major wrestling promotion, but you can bet he had a plan on how he was going to learn it. That plan involved listening to only one person. Investing your time and energy to learn from one of the highest earning wrestlers of all time only made sense. Hey Hogan knows best, right, brother? What I mean? You said it? Brother? I don't. I mean yes, I mean I

do. I thank you for you know, reaffirming that, Brother, But what's the dis I send them some sarcasm? Dude? You want to do something about it? Are you? Are you like? Are you unhappy? Brother? Is that what you're telling me? Dude, you're not pleased with with the way Hulk Hogan's time taking things to dude? Mm hmmm, Hogan's kind of what things? Kind of taking things? Dude? Did you call Hr? Brother? Have you called Turner Hr? Dude? Dude? Are

you Leon? Have you have you have you sit down with Ted? Dude? Right? Are you talking Turner brother? Because you know one of the things in my contract? I don't know if you know this Leon has Anybody who talks to Ted has to go through me first. I mean I have exclusive rights to Ted Turner Brother to my contract. Dude, Dude, I have accessibility and nobody else supposed to have accessibility without me knowing about getting his

calendar? Brother? Are you you talk you talk Turkey Brother? Talk about dude? Did you talk Turkey? Dude? I don't bullshit me, brother, I already know that was just a test. Brother. You're sitting opposite You don't listen. I'm gonna tell you what right now. Brother, Your silence, Dude is loud, speaks volumes. Dude speaks volumes. Brother, what did you talk to Ted about? Brother? Come on, dude, open up, talk turkey. I'm listen, I'm listen. I want all

right, hold on, hold well it was around Thanksgiving? I want I want doll listening back? Brother? I like, what, wait? What you talk Thanksgiving? Dude? I thought it was in jail. Wait? Whoa whoak? Meaning I don't know about on top of this one, dude, Brother, whoa whoa? Whoa? I mean we're talking, dude. Now we're talking between Halloween, Havoc and starkad. Brother, So you're already talking to Ted talking about during this time, Dude, what what's going on?

Do you talk about Ted about Flair not losing to me in the cage? Brother? Are you talking about Flair coming back and rolling me up at starka? Brother, Terry, I went to dead Turner's office and talk to him about Rick Flair rolling you up at Starkate. That'd be funny. Has a contractual right to see Ted's calendar and anytime anyone from WW is in that room, he gets a call immediately from Hulk Cogan. Dude, dude, I'll see that we got did you see that? Have you got? Can

you pull up? You pull up Ted's calendar? Brother. I want to just take a look, you know, dude, I want to see what's going on, dude, see who's kind of taking meetings? Brother, if it was today, like you know, you have like a virtual session with Ted, because of course he'd be in the mountain somewhere for all of his calls, with like a taxidermy behind him, hanging from the balcony, and he's like, you know, he opens up the t there and Ted,

how you doing? Leon? I love there now A big fan of that, and I love everything that's going on down in w C. So he's so Ted's taking up all the screen. Leon's in the bottom right corner, and then all of a sudden, the top right corner that's Hogan. Just look at it the screen. I just want to say, dude, I don't listen. First of all, hello everybody, good morning. Appreciate everyone

being on the zoom call. Dude, I just want to say I'm a little I'm a little concerned over the amount of meetings that Ted's been Ted is taking you know. I mean, I'm looking at I'm looking at his calendar right now, brother, and we're talking. First of all, Leon has a meeting, Dude. I see that Dugan has a meeting with him. Brother, I dug him. What's what's going on? Dude? What do you what do you have to talk to Ted about exactly that you can't just

talk to me about. I mean, I see that that that Randy's going to talk with him, brother, I'll see that. I'll see that Johnny b Bad's gonna like Meryll's gonna go to meeting with him. Brother. This is all I just want to know, dude, what's going on with Marrow? Dude? What where do you get off booking a meeting with Ted Turner? Brother? Did you meeting or are you meeting to book? Did you? I mean, are you getting Wait a minute, maybe we should take

this, you know, off offline. Let me everybody, dude, I think everyone wants to know. Brother, you're getting a push. I mean, I'm just gonna say, dude, if you're getting a push, that's that's that's news to me, brother, because nobody they didn't cross my desk. Brother, you know what I mean? Yes, Mark, Marrow if he's getting a push Hulk Scott like the Yeah. Everyone everyone's in a very professional like zoom cam like static, you know, at a high level.

Hogan's is like under his nostrils on like a phone, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's like in the car. You know, I got you know, I got my laptop here. Brother. I'm just I wish you could see me too, because I'm I'm I got. I'm like taking my glasses off and putting them back on. I got the end of my nose, you know, like I just you know, I'm just I just think it's more important that we have clarity, dude, in regards to you know, the the way w CW is gonna be run. And i'd listen.

I trust Ted, I trust easy brother, and I need to trust everyone else, dude. But I don't know if I can can I trust you guys. I don't know Vader I'm gonna get because I don't know what bad I'm dude, I don't know which Vader I'm going to get. Problem I getting super Vader? Am I getting Big Van Vader? Am I getting Vader Vader? Dude? You what what are you telling? Leon? Tell me? Who am I getting by getting baby balls. See, you don't

even fucking know, dude. That's the problem. Brother, dude, brother, you know what, dude, Let me, dude, let me tell you something. Vader, you muted yourself, Brother, your muted, your mutedness spoke volumes all right, dude, because you don't even know which Vader I'm going to get. I'll tell you what's not muted. Brother, And that's the voices in my head telling me that something's amiss here, dude. I want to tell someone. I'm going to tell you something, Dude,

what's not muted? Dude? Are the millions of Hulk maniacs out there saying Hulk Hogan, you're number one brother, Ichi Bond Hogan Son exactly? And here you are getting on Ted Turner's calendar. Dude, I just don't understand. First, I don't. I don't, Brother, I'm not I'm not seeing sign saying Ichi Bon Vader Son brother right exactly. Like So if you're if you're not Ichi Bon and I'm Echi Bond, how come how come you're

getting in with Ted dude and I don't know about him? Brother? I have to approve all of Ted's meetings from wrestling side, of course, to be respectful. No, brother, dude, I listen, it's in my contract that I have. I have meeting approval for all of Ted's meetings, dude, because I don't know who's coming in to to fuck with the Hulk Hogan. Maybe Terry. I'm like fast forward apartment rewind a year before when

they're negotiating. Terry, I'm really excited about the deal. I think we I think you'll find that everything's to your liking here and that you've got all the access you were looking for. Is there anything else we need to talk about before we put our John Hancocks down? Well, you know, dude, I do want to talk to Turkey about one small thing. You know. I listen. I understand that WC is just one, you know, one of the companies underneath the giant turnerom brother an important piece, one piece.

Abslutely, dude, I totally get that, Brother, It's one piece. So I do have one major concern, maybe a minor concern to you, but it's a major concern to me, brother, because I have to you know, I'm not even thinking about just Hulk Hogan. I'm not thinking about Terry Blaya brother and his family. Dude, I'm not even talking about c W. There's something else that's kind of on a bigger, grander scale

that also is my concern. Now again, I'm telling you, I'm thinking about Hulk Hogan, I'm thinking about Terry Bulla, I'm thinking about w CW.

But I also go to worry about hull Comania. A proposal for what I do, brother, I I I don't think it's not fair, brother, and we can talk about this, but I think it's important that I have say over everyone who wants to schedule a meeting with you, because I don't know who's coming in saying oh yeah, you know what, Oh yeah, I'm uh, I'm coming in due to talk to talk to CNN. Brother, I'm I'm fucking here's here's Robert Wiener coming in. Dude, I'm

gonna hear talk CNN. You know, But how do I know Robert Wiener isn't actually trying to roll up heul Covian exactly exactly, all right, So this is what we get. I need to kind of like lay things out, Dude. I got to kind of figure out and I want to do. You know, whenever you got to get someone you know, trying to try to book you for a meeting. Brother. I just want to have about a week or so to get an approval, brother, so I can

take my guys. I can have easy ease a couple of people. Dude, you know I got I'll have dug in on this thing too, Brother, kind of like go through, do a little bit of a background check, dude, see what's going on, See where they lie, where their allegiances lie. And then when you get the okay, then you can actually schedule a date with these guys. Why because I have to worry about Hulco mania unbelievably good stuff. Wimi was at a corporate structure. Yeah, okay,

we get it. So let's have some fun. Let's have some fucking fun with it. Please carry on from Vader's boken. Oh yes, water water U mannequin, uh investigator, that's right. The problem was by, however, by shifting gears and becoming a full time hulk of maniac himself and turning your back on everybody else, he forgot about who had got him to

the dance at all. The main reason why he was considered to become the top man was all the hard work of Cactus, Jack Sting, Rick Flair, Ron Simmons, Rick Rude and said vicious the whole WCW group before the Hulk Cogan era. Some people behind the scenes today say that if you look at the ratings during the time before Hulk Hogan, the nWo, the Monday Night Wars and all that WCW was more profitable because they obviously had a lot less money and salaries going out. You know what I mean, Hulk.

When Hulk first got to WCW, he seemed great. He was real nice and polite, He was cool with all the boys and seemed to be sincere. Well did we know that he was obviously really working on winning over one person behind the scenes, the only one needed who really could get him over by winning, Eric Bischoff. Once he got in with Eric real quick, everything changed. When Hogan first came in, it was perceived as a positive and people believed it was what would be good for business. However, he

lobed me to go over clean on Rick Flair. That booking certainly didn't help Flair. After Hogan destroyed him four times in a row, which made him which made absolutely no sense to do so early. Eric let him then hand select his next opponent more politics to get his buddy some main event pay per view money. Hogan chose The Butcher aka Brutus Beefcake. This match drew horrible money out a payd review, and the fans boot Hogan the whole match.

After that fiasco, they decided to call me in to save the day. Harley was hurt, so Flair was sort of acting as my manager in a storyline twist to end their program. Flair lost a retirement match to Hogan in October ninety four. He came back in a few months oh a few months later to just sit in the crowd in interfer in matches, then to keep him in the top heel scene with me for about two months. He started

managing me. It made me very It made very little sense to me at the time, because we technically should have hated each other still on TV. Other than the idea that the enemy of my enemy is my friend, I couldn't think of anything else to justify the logic, and I was part of the storyline. I saw what Hogan got away with working with Flair. I knew it was bad, so I told anyone who would listen to me exactly just what I thought people knew. I wasn't happy about what I was seeing

with Hogan falling back into the undefeatable pattern he enjoyed in the WWE. I had no problem with letting word get out about what I thought. Back then, there was no Internet to post behind the scenes wrestling gossip and all. There were there were weekly newsletters that smart fans subscribe to. However, to

get the dirt. A bunch of these dirt sheets, like The Torch and The Observer were saying that I was going to an essence shoot on Hull Cogan and hurt him to get out of the picture because I had enough of how I was being booked. Brother, Can you come here for a second. I got the Torch here. I just want to say. The torches came in, dude. Let's conference calling five, dude. This code read brother. I just I just want to say, dude, I'm I'm looking here.

I'm just flipping through that. I mean, I got both. I got both Keller and Meltzer here, dude on on my desk, dude, and they're both talking about Vader shooting on me. Brother, I mean literally that's what it says here. How am I what did I sign up for dude? You told me this was a safe place to work, brother, and now I'm reading this stuff. What kind of what kind of ship you're running? I never had to deal with this ship with Vince. Dude.

Brother, what who's gonna shoot on? Are you serious right now? Brother? Dude? I'm I'm I'm talking about my livelihood, dude, and he's gonna shoot on my safetume. We're talking about a fucking mad gunman, brother, fucking sniper, dude, Vader gonna shoot? Dude? Is he going to shoot? Did you tell him to shoot? I don't know who to trust at this point. Brother. All right, brother, let's kind of like just cut it down the middle day. All right, let's take this

thing one step. But it's his brother. Did you tell Vader to shoot on me? Brother? Yes? Is this an easy thing? Dude? I don't want to hear he's not going to I want to know did you tell him to I don't I don't want to know if it's a yes or no on what he's going to do. I want to know where the order came from, brother, because we all know Vader doesn't work alone. Did you give the orders? Dude? Did you give the orders? Did Turner tell you to give the order? Brother? I heard he was meeting with

going on two weeks ago. Brother, listen, dude, and you listen. You know what he was vetted, dude, and he came out legit. This meeting came out legit. Brother. I don't have any concerns, but now I have concerns. What happened was that after the after the meeting was over, they found a way through back channels due to communicate that maybe you might might shoot on hul Hook and at super Brow. Now they're also leaking it to the Torch and to Meltzer. Dude, what's going on?

Brother? Time to level would be, dude, enough of the gaga, enough hide the ball? All right? Yeah, dude, you know what, I'm tired of playing games, Brother, I'm trying. I'm tired of playing hide the salami, Dude, I'm tired of playing you know the way, you know, roll the skateboard down the street right exactly. I've been I've seen them all. I played all the games. Brother, what's going on? Answer the goddamn question? When did you tell Vader to shoot on

me? Brother? How did you tell Vader to shoot at me, brother, And how did you tell and what did you tell Brother Vader to do to shoot on me? Dude? Bischoff decides the hell with that. He's not gonna believe you anyway, so just leans in, Terry. I told him two weeks ago to attack your ankle during the match and try to snap it like Matt Suita did. I'm sorry. I feel you rowed the truth, you know, dude. I want to say something right now, brother.

What you did just now, dude, was the hardest thing I can imagine you doing, brother, And you told the truth, and I'm sure makes you feel good. Dude, you have to realize the burden you just put on me. You put a burden on me, brother. But I'll tell you what you know. What I know now, dude, is that I know that Eric Bischoff's gonna have whole hoo ah. That's what I believe, dude. And if you got my back, brother, I got your backs me and Brudhist dude, friends of the end, dude, And I'll

fucking pump blood into your veins. Brother. He's going to shoot on you in the first two minutes. See, here's the thing, dude, Here's what here's the thing, dude, you can't. I'm not going to tell me you told me, brother, So we're going to kind of play it

out like everything's going along. And then I know that Vader's going to shoot on me, brother, so then we can I can surprise him with you know, he tries to surprise me, and I surprise him on the surprise, right, you know, we get that old crime Frank Ruski going on brother, make him pass out like a fucking comedian. Dude. What what so Terry goes into the ring with a fucking exacto knife, but he never has to use it because it was all bullshit. I just want to say,

I got my blade. I'm gonna say leon dude, all right, look at me in the eyebrother, I got my blades on me, dude, just so you know before you try anything, dude, you want to try something, dude, if you try to try anything on me, brother, that we haven't planned, that we haven't choreygraphed. Dude, actually know what you does? Grab grabs the fucking microphone? All right, dude,

commaniacs. I want to tell you something, brother, Big Van Vader over here, dude, he was going to try to pull something on Hulk Hogan. He was gonna kind of go behind Hulk Hogan's back. Brother. He told Eric Bischoff, Dude. He told Ted Turner brother that he was not gonna go through with the choreography and the plan finished, dude, that he was gonna shoot on Hulk Hogan and stab me in the back. Brother.

Well, I could tell you right now, dude. The only stabbing happening here, brother is gonna be me, because I got a knife right here, dude. And if Vader tries, if Vader tries any ship, brother, I'm gonna shank him right in the fucking fat gut. And what you're gonna do, Big Van bitch? What a pro ba? People just sitting there their jaws on the floor. It has an actual knife in his hand. Here's a knife, brother, huh my Hulk a knife, dude,

Hulk of blade. Brother, I'm gonna cut Vader dude the Monday after the pay per view, mister Turner, It's Hull Coconu line two. All right, I'll take it, ah, Hulk, how's my pay per view superstar? I'm great, dude. I can't say the same for Vader the brother. Oh wow, what happened to him? How's leon? Well, you know what, dude, I gotta say, Brother, I got a little nervous, dude, because that meeting that you had with him, dude, and I got word back that he was actually gonna try some shit in the

ring. So I had to kill him, brother, on pay per view last night. I hope that's all right. I hope it's okay, dude. Uh okay. I needless to say, you can cancel the rest of the meetings you have with him on the calendar because I know you have something. I know, Brother. You told me you didn't have any, but we both know you do. I know I know you had him, dude.

I saw your calendar, Brother, I saw your secret calendar too that you wanted you to like to hide from me today exactly when you don't think I know about So I want you to know, dude, I have eyes and ears all over your office. Brother. I know everything that's going on. I know all the ins and outs. I know when you get there. I'm the only guy in your roster that dude. And I'm just gonna say, brother, did you keep up this ship? Brother? Hulk Cogan's

coming with that turner ass dude. For now, I'm just gonna tap my teeth with the butt end of the gun. Oh shit, can someone have Lei Lally call Terry again? Go ahead? Uh? In essence, yeah, shoot on uh uh shoot, because I didn't know how that is. I am a professional and never went into a match with the intention of hurting someone. Sure, I hurt some people by accident and was also hurt by accident, but I wasn't going in to actually hurt Hogan. Hurt Hogan Rick

double cross me for the title of Starcade. He took Justice's job two days before the pay per view, scrapped all of our plans, and never made good with it. Therefore, my first reaction to being asked to work with Hogan was no. I told Eric I would not recuperate or work with not cooperate. Rather, this is Eric, by the way, who said,

I really think Vader wanted to work with Hogan, right. And then here's Vader in his book saying, when I was first old being asked to work with Hogan, I said no, no, I would not cooperate or work with Hogan at all, with whatever they wanted to throw at me unless they agreed to make good with old promises. I refused to work with him unless it meant getting my title back. Eric didn't like that and really wanted me to work with Hogan, so I got called into a second meeting with Eric.

At this one, I tried my hand in politics. Flair screwed me on what Dusty and I had agreed, and you still owe me for that. I said, not only that, but you should put the belt off Hogan because we don't want to hurt WW with a long, stale championship like they boot Hogan WWE. Eric promised change, but he wasn't budgeting yet. Eric, if you don't want to go with my idea and do this for me, you should do it to save Hogan's stock and do it for the

company. I said. At this point, Hogan was getting totally booed and it was obvious that they would soon have to turn him heel. I was getting cheered so hard as he healed because of how much our fan did not like the old idea of the immortal storyline. They can't be beat Hogan coming into our promotion. Uh to tell just the say the old boring story again was a waste of everybody's time. Also, Hogan was seen as an invading

Northerner coming into a Southern territory. The old fans of good old boys southern wrastling weren't having it. They hated his Yankee ass. It soon became more and more evident that Hogan would either it's kind of funny given that he's not from I No, he couldn't be a redneck, right exactly. It soon became more and more evident that Hogan would either need to quit or become a heal. I love that. I love that. This is the obvious thing

for fucking later, right, Eric agreed. We both knew by now the audience was not buying it, and that eventually something was going to have to change. I didn't want to. I didn't want to feed into the whole Invincible Hulk Hogan booking route. What I proposed was that with Flare acting like my new advisor, I didn't care how they took the belt from Hogan. Flair could shoot him in the back with a bazuka. Just that we said in the fucking interview too. Yeah, yeah, just so, as long

as it did happen. But Eric didn't go for it. He did, however, throw more money around and agreed to me not having to job out or do any sort of clean finish for Hogan, which would hurt my character's image and lower my stock. Before our first match of super Bowl five, I attacked Hogan in an angle to promote our upcoming series of matches. Before the run in, he said, brother, you know do you you do your finisher to me? Brother, I'm just gonna lay there get you over

as a monster. Brother. So he was supposed to take my finisher and lay there out cold, but then you want to talk about a swerve. Hogan got up off of my finish here to make himself look strong even before our series of matches. Nice, that said, an awesome tone. I hit him with the Vader Bomb and I took and I look over and Hogan gets right up like it was nothing, You son of a bitch. I said. That was my first experience with him. I was like, Jesus,

this is how these guys get over. They lie in, backstab you. At Super Brawl, we had an okay match, Okay rematch, okay rematch? How was it a rematch? He's all over the place in this book. Yeahs as good as you can with a guy like Hogan. But I'll tell you I made good and sure to kick out of Hogan's trademark leg drop after a one count as a receipt for the for that nonsense he pulled out on me earlier. That was before before he blew off the finisher.

But I guess he's talking about clashing the champions, which if you watch it is very clearly something Vader sees coming the way he sets up the clothesline over three sixty over the floor after even gets up. Yeah, I'm telling you, man, they're so it's like they yeah, they lose it. Also, you're gonna tell me you're gonna you're gonna kick out at one. I mean, also, Hogan, here's the thing about that. I also call bullshit on this as a last minute decision two, because Hogan is prepped to

for the big kickout and he lands on his feet. Yeah, you know when Hogan when when when Vader pushes out, it's right away and Hogan does that thing where when a powerful kickout happens, he ends up on his feet. Wow. So lads, Yeah, And to me, like, you don't you can't do that without knowing that someone's going to kick out by the

move right, you need some cooperation? Yeah, one count as receiving the referee was knocked out before I hit Hogan with the hit the Vader bomb on Hogan, then Rick, then Rick Flair ran to the ring, made the three count and attacked Hogan, resulting in Might's qualification in the match. On the first w CW one cent uncensored pay per view, I wrestled Hogan again, this time in a strap match. Flair once again was booked to in to intervene, this time in drag, which still baffles me to this day,

costing me the match. After this, it was obviously that Flair was being booked into all my finishes. This became a way to meet the promise I had with Eric of not having a job to Hogan. To Flare's credit, it was It has come to my attention that he has since mentioned he hated this and wanted nothing to do with it. I would have preferred beating Hogan's senses and then and then being disqualified over Flair running in and costing me

the match and making me look stupid all the time. It's funny because Eric Bischoff was the one who begged me to work with Hogan, and talked about future programs, but a return series with a possible title exchange never happened. Today. In interviews, however, like a recent one with Greg Oliver, Eric says Vader was known for being a bit unpredictable and I'm professional, and

as a result, Hogan didn't really want to work with him again. Conriad Conrad Conriad, Yeah, I find this ironic coming from the same person who would say one thing backstage then do a different thing in the ring. I he no sell the Vader bomb. Now who now? Who was the unpredictable and professional one? To this day, I don't know if Eric decided to keep me away from Hogan or if it was a request from Hogan himself politics. There was no incident, nothing stiff or anything of or anything in any

of our first series of matches. I took good care of Hogan and all of our bouts. He always thanked me after and said how everything was great and it was a pleasure. Clearly he was telling Eric something else behind the scenes to keep me out of the spotlight and keep himself on top. I don't understand Vader's mainsa ment's pay per views. The entire first half of the year until he is until he's out. It doesn't win the belt back thing

he cares about. He headlines the goddamn show, every fucking show except a Great American Bash, because neither he or Hogan were on it right. I don't know. After that, I was booked into another feud with Flair based on my frustration at Flair's constant interference in my title matches and Flare's annoyance at my inability to Hogan. This frustration angle booking was probably a rib on me because it was also what was going on behind the scenes. They were frustrating

the hell out of me. The weird thing that I cannot explain is that before the very end, it seemed as if I started to gain Hogan's respect. Maybe Hogan was impressed that I was hanging in there. I don't know, but Hogan started coming around more and seeking me out. He seemingly grew interested in working with me some more. One day he surprisingly asked me to help develop his feud with the Dungeon of Doom. He said he wanted me to join him Randy Savage and staying for the main event at WSW Wargames.

We got together went over some spots and came up with some really good ideas, but the storyline never developed. Well that was because he got fired, right. We talked about that in the ard of war Games. She was supposed to be on Hogan's team at the ninety five War Games exactly. It is possible, however, that Hogan was just practicing politics with me to keep

me at bay. Maybe the whole Wargames thing was a ploy to cover up his true feelings of not wanting to share the spotlight with me in future main

events. Who knows. Somebody was working so aka tlf's coverage of Super Brawl five, The Observer said that supposedly the finish of the Hogan Invader match originally was double juice with bockwinkl or the commission stopping the match to set up a no stopping for blood uncensored strap match, he wrote, but circumstances over the past week made the company next to the idea of juice, and they went to plan B. There was there was an article in The New York Post

by Phil Muschnik, the you know, rampaging anti wrestling New York Post columnist that more than anything it called gene okerlint to task for a nine hundred line teaser where he basically said, I've got news now in the hotline of a former world heavyweight champion who's died at the age of forty whatever age Rick Flair is. Yeah, oh my god, and or Ventura could have fit the

category two I think or something like that. It was Jerry Blackwell that he was talking about, who wasn't even a world heavyweight champion as a singles he was a tag champion the awri right, and so mustna heard about this and did a whole thing about it. Yeah, wrestler might die, but you have to pay to find out about it, and how you know, callous it is to sort of dangle the threat, you know, the potential news of a wrestler's demise is a way to profit. And so boss I figured

we take a listen. Thanks to our pal Matt who was able to track this down. Gene Okerland on WCW Television promoting the you two for the low price of what probably amounted to seven ninety nine by the time you sat on the phone long enough to hear the announcement of who was dead. Heard this in terms of this is of course, as not the report on the hotline. But this is the advertisement for the hotline that got WCW Andngene and some

negative publicity. Good morning, everybody, and welcome to w CW Pro. It's rumored one of the top tag teams as all of wrestling are on their way to w CW. I can't talk about it on the air. I will talk about it today on the hotline. Plus the tragic death former heavyweight champion at age forty five, all of that and more today give me a call of the hotline at one nine hundred nine on nine ninety nine hundred. I'll buck forty nine per minute, But ladies and gentlemen, give me a

call today. I'm a hotline buck forty nine per minute. Boss. Oh, I now would ask you to put on your best film Mushnik voice. It's time for the February fifteenth, nineteen ninety five New York Post article pouncing, pouncing, of course, fucking betrayal of integrity from Gene Okerlands. He's a New Yorker, right, oh very much so. Yeah, you know, instead of entertainment lawyer, he says, entertainment lawyer, entertainment lawyer,

equal time. Phil Mushnick headline Boss Turner phone scam better dead for Ted. By the way, that tag team was that the Seiner Brothers. That's you nailed it exactly. Who's coming in now that Bill Wats is firmly in the background. They did not get along with Bill Watts. So I see, I see nationally televised sleeves for kids try top in this. One Saturday night, February fourth, veteran TV pro wrestling Shill Gene Oakland appeared on the weekly

World Championship Wrestling extravaganzov TBS. Oakland is employed by the WCW. Both the WCW and TBS are owned by Ted Turner. Oakland, facing a TV audience the ww acknowledges to be predominated by children, had some really big news. He reported that a forty five year quote quote a forty five year old former heavyweight champion unquote had died. Good gosh, who right? Oakland wouldn't say. Instead, he said that the info could be gleaned by dialing a WCW

nine hundred number one fifty per minute. Yeah, people do meltzer. Oh no, you don't have Yeah, I just read it. Quote. People thought the deceased was Rick Flair, a huge WW star, said Dave Meltzer, who reported this scam in his Weekly Wrestling of Observer newsletter. Flair meets that description, and with Flair not having appeared on TV for two weeks, Oakerland didn't discourage that thought. In truth, the deceased was Jerry Blackwell,

a fellow who wrestled as Crusher Blackwell in the eighties. Blackwell died two weeks earlier and is now relegated to bulging to the bulging scrap heap of pro wrestlers who died twenty five years or more before the rest of us. Fucking go Phil not that callers to the ww's nine hundred the line found out about Blackwell right away at a buck fifty per minute. Oakland's taped voice was in no

hurry to break the old news about Blackwell's death. A w CW spoke person said he didn't know just how long Oakland kept callers on the line before telling of Blackwell's death, but another weekly newsletter, Pro Wrestling Torch, reported this breaking tail from the Crypt reported this breaking Tail from the Crypt was withheld until the fifth minute, meaning the call to the ww's deathline costs seven dollars and fifty cents c W deathline. I mean, where where have voices like this

gone? I know you know what I mean. Meltzer said the ww's pay per orbit paropit call whiles representing a new low, and sleeves represented a new financial high for the ww's nine hundred number endeavors. A WW spokesman said he didn't know exactly how many minutes were logged to the line, but I can

acknowledge that the promotion quote did do quite well unquote yes. In the past, with so many pro wrestlers dying young, dying of drug overdoses or of drug related diseases, or from incidents outside the ring, pro wrestling rarely mentions death, Meltz has said, but this time Pro wrestling cashed in on one. A lot of money was made off the death of Jerry. Of all

fucking people, let's make money off Jerry Blackwell. Well, someone had to, right, I guess, I guess you know he's not making enough money as it is. Might will make money off the fucking guy. I mean, it's ridiculous. Pro Wrestling's nine hundred lines have been abused before. You know, kids have been encouraged to call in the choices for whom they'd like to see in big pay per view events, even when the matchups are already set. But this is the first time a death has been dangled and sold

on a nine hundred line, one hundred number, Meltzer said. The WW in the hands of Ted Turner makes for a curious match. After all, we're talking about Ted Goodwill, Games Turner, Ted National Geographic Turner, Ted Preserved the Global Environment Turner, Ted CNN Turner. Turner is tough on illegal drug use among his employees, even though even tough on legal drug use now

ten years ago, Turner banned cigarette smoking is in his Atlanta offices. For years, his employees have had to sign a statement value not to use tobacco on his premises. Yet, just last spring, Turner sat for photoshoots with his new multimillion dollar employee, Hulk Hogan. Hogan, at the time was in the midst of admitting under oath that he was a practiced liar. That is the most celebrated act in the ww's rival World Wrestling Federation. His character

wasn't built on quote prayer invitamins, but on years of steroid abuse. No matter Turner made, Hogan is new ww star. This is the Ted Turner, who will present a TV series on the sorrowful plight of the Native American Indian at the hands of white ex manchioness yet present to America's kiddies through the WCW on yielding string of negative ethnic and racial stereotypes, including the American Indian.

Recently, a champ who wrestled for Turner under the name Vinnie Vegas, an Italian stereotype, stated on Check Kopick's new sport talk show that the w CW is lousy with steroids. Yeah, Vinie Vegas would know, Yeah, right, Hey, fucking you know shit, Hey, you know I've been done with Atlanta. I know what the fuck is going on. That place is just you know, it's it's like two rabbits fucking and making steroids.

That's what's going on down there. Last month, a fellow named Frank Anderson, who used to be a World World Champion Greco Roman wrestler, was convicted in Sweden for the purchase and possession of human growth hormone. Anderson is employed by the w CW, and it's just not a big name in pro wrestling. He doesn't make much money for the w CW for tied Turner, but

with any luck, you soon suffered drug induced renal failure. In Die you talk about the perfect whipping horse for a guy like Phil Mushnick, like he could just go off yes and just have and just say the most like outrageous things because it was pro wrestling. This is listen. It's it's a pro wrestling is a haven for murderers and death. It's a fact. It's not an opinion. I think we know who the lapsed editor's favorite columnist was a

monthly. I've been reading this guy, Mushnik, this guy nobody's fucking talking. He's got it, he's got it, he's dead on. This guy gets exactly what the fuck is going on? How do we get him or how do I get on the post? Somebody kill the editor on the post please. We'll have to talk about that coming soon in the paper. Part

two. Then the WW on a Saturday night can tell kids that a former champion wrestlers died, and for only a dollar fifty minute, they can find out who Anderson, as Jerry Blackwell proved, could be worth more to Turner dead than alive. It's time for mister Turner, mister goodwill missed to save the environment, turn to take his friendly TV wrestling business out to be cleaned and burned. Wow, burned. This is one environmental issue that should not

be subject to recycling. A great line fell, so there was like heightened sensitivity. They made something about juice in there too. Was very clear that there was a no juicy edict to w W because this mentioned that's what gets Dusty Rhodes fired. Dustin fired. The next amounth that uncentered because there's blood in their match. He and Barry Darcel Blacktop Bully both tell that exact story, so that there clearly was a problem of including juice and the Hogan Invader

finish because that wasn't allowed. But maybe that edict came after the original plans were drawn up for how this match would finish and involved juice. Not sure, but that's out there, and you know, the idea that you're going to get a clean job out of Vader while he held that Japanese heavyweight title

was also political football very much an issue. The thing we've learned about Japan, of course, over the years is if an American superstar goes to Japan, that's probably the best money he's making in the business like hour for hour, match for match, and so compromising their ability to stay on top in Japan by doing too many jobs in the United States. It's always a problem for guys like him and Hanson and Brody and Abdullah and others who found a

way to make their nest egg in Japan over the United States. There's also talked that the two scheduled works and how Show dates An Invader and those finishes being watched closely, as well as for Hartley's situation. Pretty hilarious when you think about the history of Harley kind of being the person that was threatening Hogan.

His wws take off on his back and moved into territories like Kansas City and Saint Louis were Harley thought he had the stronghold totally and Hogan was very paranoid about Hartley showing up with a gun because there was a threat like that at one of the shows when they came into his territory to defend this turf and pretty hilarious. Harley walks right into the WW for arena one time when ww first started going there. This is an Invader's book. Harley walked down

the familiar Halls and found Hulk Cogan in the dressing room. Harley stormed in. Hogan supposedly said something like wrong building the night brother, and that's all Harley needed to hear. Race walked right up to a seated Hogan smacked him with his sledgehammer hand directly in the face. Hogan fell off his chair and went down to the floor. Geese dude, Hogan said, knowing damned well, while he got hit, I'm surprised you just coming here with a gun.

Race reached into the jacket and flashed a thirty revolver. The locker room cleared. When Hogan's camp tells the story today, they claim Harley took a gas can that the Hall used for their lawnmower and tried to burn down the WWF. Ran That's untrue, Ray said to some Hogan supporters at one of the barbecues. There was no gas can. The rest of the story was very game. So he pulled the gun on them. There's that, and the rumor was that Harley Race is going to show up with a shotgun with

a shotgun. When the WWF came back to town, Vader Wrights just as before, he was still pissed that the Missouri territory was his and he was not going to give it up without a fight. Everyone in the locker room was nervous about the booking that night, especially the WWA front men hul Cog And that night came, and just as before, Harley simply walked right into

the dressing room like you owned the place. The only thing different this time was he peeked his head in first to make sure he could strike it precisely the right moment. A bunch of the wrestlers were moving about. Harley snuck in when Hogan had his back to the door, which is always a couple of the wrestlers looked up and Hardly held his finger up to his lips. He signaled for everyone to be quiet, and he snuck up behind Hogan.

When Hogan was at least expecting it, Harley put him in a chokehold from behind. Ah Before anything could happen, he slapped his slapped him as hard as he could on the ribs, and released the hold. Hogan turned around and winced. He turned as white as a ghost, Hardily smirked and extended his hand in friendship. Hogan rightfully breathed a sigh of relief, the whole ball game. What do you want, brother? What do you want? Dude? What the fuck? Brother? What are you doing? My fuck?

What do you? What? Do you? What do you? What do you? Did? You? Who told you? How? When? What? What? What? What? How? Often? What do you when? What's going on? Dude? Where are we? Brother? Huh so huh uh? I don't know. With that backdrop, is hardly being associated with Vader and advising him in a real life capacity as well as on screen a factor in Hogan's level of distrust towards working with Vader. It's not

talked about often enough. I just think it's a goddamn fascinating thing that as soon as Hogan gets in and consolidates power, Harley's never seen or heard from again. Yeah, he had nothing to do with the car accident, of course, this is Harley's book. In January nine ninety five, Bjay, which was his girlfriend, was out of town on a banking convention, and I went downtown to a bar to shoot pool with a couple of friends.

At least I thought they were at the time. We started playing for fun, but one of the guys suggested we'd make it interesting and play for a little money. By the end of the night, I was down about thirteen hundred dollars and physically feeling worse for the wear than the few drinks I had. Only later, after I started piecing things together in my mind that I suspect that I was the victim of a scam. My two friends were working as partners and I was their mark. To make matters worse, I still

suspect someone might have slipped something in my drink that night. Okay, Harley, you got drunk as a skunk. You don't have to do all this, all this ca faving about it. When I left the bar, I was driving across an inner city bridge and ran across a pothole from hell that popped the airbag and jerk the car to the left. It was an intersection where one concrete divider stopped at the start of the intersection and another one began at the end of it. Lost control of my car and it plowed into

the front of the barrier. The impact pushed the engine block into the front seat, nearly crushing my legs. My right forearm and hip were both fractured. Doctors told me later that most people wouldn't have survived the wreck. I managed to get out of my car and stand up, but that was about it. I don't remember much after that. I took a steel plate and four screws to put my hip back together. But my luck was about to go from bad to worse. Two weeks after the wreck, I developed gout

in one of my feet. It's a build up of uric acid that can cause intense pain and, if not serious tissue damage. On this particular morning, I wasn't able to put any weight in my foot. I was in no shape to walk to my physical rehab class, and I told my nurses much. Still, she insisted, and she got an aid to help me lift me out of bed in my physical rehab class. I'll pardon me in doing so. They dropped me and I collapsed backward into a chair. I

banged my head, but my body absorbed much of the shock. It was enough to fracture my hip all over again. Oh Jesus, and I realized this time in various places. You would think that would get me out of physical therapy class for the day, but it didn't. At the time, they didn't know I had refractured my hip. It was pure torture, so they insisted I attend to the session. Why I complied, I'll never know.

It was pure torture, but I completed their bullshit exercises. Only after that, when they got me back to my room did they perform an X ray. I determined that I had refractured my hip and that was it for

hardly raising the business. Really wow. This is the same time too, that Hogan is starting to launch his music endeavors with Jimmy Hart, trying to model himself after the success of David Hasselhoff in Germany, who, despite having no discernible musical talents, but due to being an American television star, had a huge music career in Germany. Hilariously, Hogan of course got to know Hasselhoff and dealing with Baywatch, right, of course, I'll be read.

In nineteen ninety five brought it. I came out with an album called Hulk Rules by Hulk Code and in the wrestling boot band. But really the album was born back in nineteninety two at Wimbley Stadium. You know the deal. Here we go again. I have to read the whole thing. But I had the hassel Hoff position twenty five percent of the company, just like I wanted David Hasselhoff at twenty five percent of Baywatch. But my partner is as

good as producer as good producers do. We're always trying to talk to me into taking less and less money because they needed it on the set. They would say, you know, what's your company too, We'll make money on the back end anyway. The first movie, this is all the movies he signed on with Turner at the same time, So we had twenty five percent of the We talked about this and we did Hoky movies enter the cinema.

Sure. Sure, he also had twenty five percent of the movies that clearly Turner was obliged to produce as part of Hulk Cocin's incentive agreement in compensation agreement, because there's no other reason to make these movies than they were forced to. So he's got all these other things going on under the Turner aegis, which is important to remember. Here's an article from Business Wire from February fourteenth, nineteen ninety five, just a few days before Super Brawl five. Tell

you how thin Hulpe might be spreading. Superstar professional wrestler Terry Hulk Hogan, manager Jimmy Hard and other members of the Wrestling Boot Band will sign a major recording contract with Select Records. According to Hulk Hogan, the millions of Hulky maniacs all over the world can't wait to see the Halt star team up with Select Records. I know, is Hulton maniac myself? That could be more true? Yeah, so fired up in ninety five about Select rec oh heard

all about it. Select is the home of the Jerky Boys, Kidden Play, chub Rock and other happening products. Happening. There's a word you haven't seen used in a while. Thank god for Chubb Rocks. Yeah, I know, happening stopped happening apparently. Yeah. Yeah, And now the greatest force in the universe meets up with the power of the music industry. The Hulkster had a lifelong involvement with music, and his band, The Wrestling Boot

Band, is incorporating a diversified spectrum of music on their debut album. Both rap and rock music will be featured on the record, including a ballad and the official theme song American Maid, written by hulkoganin, Jimmy Hart and Jimmy McGuire. Frank Manow, president of Select Records, states Hulk Hogan, with his incredible history of media dominating, represents a marketing challenge that's locked up with fucking go that will do t L t M. Fun with my family friends?

Wanna be fun with my family? There you go, be sure? Tell you how to stay on track to at the Maniacs, dud Lost the Fox and some of the things that always be could be your family and Prince that's the only ones that will be there in the end. You wanna have fun with my family friends? And do you wanna have fun with my family when you're looking for something cool to do? Who just don't need You don't

need drugs to move your feet? Brother Harley did a. Hul Cogan, with his incredible history of media domination, represents a marketing challenge that Select Records relishes. We are looking forward to bringing this unique music package to his legions of loyal followers as well as newfound fans throughout the world. Select Records marketing consultant Michael Mansky believes quote the marriage of Hulk Cogan and Select Records is a

powerful and exciting combination. I guess it means to be seen. Hulk is an amazing superstar who transcends professional wrestling in so many ways, and Select Records, led by Fredman, now has the cutting edge and artist development savvy to capitalize on this huge opportunity. Wow. Jimmy hartch marks regarding the record deal state, when you're on top, let a rock. Hulkimania will live forever, and now Select Records will bring his music to our millions of fans.

Music has been in my blood since the days I was part of the gentries, and now we move forward with Holt's very first album, adding to the marketing challenges and excitement store for the wrestling boot Band Turner Licensing and Merchandising is granted the original San Francisco toy makers the licensing rights to produce a bendable, stretchable, and collectible toy line featuring hul Cogan and Jimmy Hart, superstars of

World Championship Wrestling. Hulk Cogan draped and bright hues of red and yellow, and commonly referred to by millions as the greatest force in the universe. I've never called him that, and I've never even heard him refer to Asta as a matter of fact. Unveiled his action figure at the annual Toy Fair in New York on February thirteenth, nineteen ninety five, So that's going on too around this time. Toy Fair Jesus, and this was a big one for

them because they really put their best foot forward that year. You know, they were able to go forward with Hogan at the Toy Fair for the first time. I really I think I talked about this, but there was a part of me that when they that was really hoping that they would get a a deal with Hasbro. Wow, that was up. Well, this is the last Hasbro line, right, ninety four ninety four was the last Hasborough

line. Wow, that's when the green cards came out. And then it was over, and I was like, I kept like, oh my god, I would have loved the like a like a W. CW. Hogan, you know, like a Vader Hasbro in ninety five, a Vader Hasbro, Sting Hasbro, A Sting Hasbro, a Dustin Rhodes has a Blacktop Bully has Bro Blacktop Bully has Bro. For sure. I love that idea. Man, what an alternate history that would have meant. I think that so cool. What does suck is you know they did come out with those Mattel

Hasbro throwbacks where we actually have seen a Vader Hasbro kind of yeah. Yeah, that kind of bums me out because you can't just like picture something that's never existed anymore. Yeah, but yeah, now they signed on with them.

They didn't have a deal since the Glub deal died WCW, so it had been a few years since they had respectable toys out there, and that's a door hol Cogan opened and there was there was talk about how you know, WWF had a week showing at the Toy Biz Fair that year and they sent home King Savage and some heavy hitters there to really try to sway people.

You heard several times in the broadcast of Super Brawl five they're trying to make the tagline work where the stars are this is before where the big boys call God it sucks. Yeah, but that was part of the whole push is we've got these stars and we're gonna let people know about it. I think it was a marketing VP share in Sadello that came up with that tagline, according to Errek Bishoff. But this is this is big for WCW that

they're making these moves in the trade world. We get a good view in this from Gary Michae Kapetta, who was the ring announcer on the show and also wrote a book, and he recalls this particular point in time as he's winding down his time with WCWS. They're gonna put Dave Penzer in the prim positions soon, and of course saw Michael Buffer as the big match, big

pay per view bring announcer for the main events. But he remembers the January nineteen ninety five nat PEAK Convention, which is the National Association of Television Program Executives. Yeah, you know, you go there and try to sell the television program and advertisers and all the advertisers go to this convention and walk the floor and you try to have your big wrestlers and your booth to draw attention.

WWF always took this very seriously, would often set up a ring and have matches to draw attention to their stuff as part of their syndicated package, you know, back when television actually worked as a business. Exactly. So here's Gary Michael Capetti's recollection of just how different a foot ww is able to put forward at the NAPTE Convention, which of course took place the exact same time as the aforementioned Caesar's Palace Clash of the Champions from January nine, ninety

five. They booked that show to coincide with the Convention of nap Tie in Vegas, so a lot of the people that are in attendance of that clash were actually at a convention goers and not ticket buying fans. And you can see a lot of people in the audience of that clash with like suits and ties on. It's hilarious. Yeah, that's wild. More Syndication markets their new TV shows. Television programmers. Michael Copeta writes Worldwide. Eric was intent

on humiliating Vince Junior. He confidently scheduled the live Clash of the Champions broadcast at the Caesar's Palace on the Wednesday of Convention Week to showcase the ww product and show showered convention goers with free tickets to the televised extravaganza. Bischoff had

dreamed about this opportunity to humble the braggadocious Vince McMahon. He was primed to take the swagger out of the step of the King of All Wrestling and presarios, and what better place to pick a fight than in full public view on the convention floor of Nappy, The place where a million dollar deals are commonly inked with the flick of a pen. The place that well how elds you're

going to ink a deal, Gary, right and Fairness. The place that sparkles with celebrities who will star in the programs offered for next year's television season. The place where the most powerful media magnates meet to determine the shows that will influence our language, dress, and pop culture trends. That was about power, It was about dominance. This was better than anything the two wrestling execs could script for the ring. At the Clash production meeting the night before

the broadcast, Flair raced through the lineup in a mirror twenty minutes. I sat staring at my watch, realizing that his protective old school mentality had kicked in for bidding us from knowing any more about the TV about the show than

the TV guide offered our viewers. As a big complaint at the time, of course, Heenan would always complain about how and shooting interviews, about how Tony would know something about what was about to happen in WCW, like a finish or something, or someone who's going to get fired and kind of like consider information power and keep it close to the vest and not tell Heenan a

lot of things, including that he was about to be fired. Tony would go on to regret that and say, you know, even though someone higher up in the turner chain told me not to tell, I think it was Craig Leathers that Bobby Heenan was about to be fired. Instead of listening to him, I should have then immediately turned around and called Bobby Heenon and told him. But that wasn't how Tony operated. It also occurred to me that he could have faxed the lineup to me, Michael copetit writes, allowing me

to spend an extra day at home. I began to feel like this meeting was a waste of time. That is until Bishoff strolled into the room. He went directly to the wet bar, grabbed a beer bottle by its neck, and smirke, it's only five twenty here, you guys done already running like a Rolex watch. Flair responded, Wow. Eric didn't seem to hear the answer and continued, I just came off the convention floor and we were kicking ass McMahon is down and bloody and can't get up. The production crew

and announcer stared at Bishoff in silence. It was obvious that our exhilarated leader had a lot more to say. We had a great press conference. I drove a steak into his heart twice and turned it. I wanted to do it again, but time ran out. It was especially fun since he had his spies there and they ran right back to him. It must have been the steak in the heart comment that left us dumbfounded. He had no talent. At one point, it was just Vince posing for photos and that went

over real big. Then he had joinked the wrestling clown. Pretty pitiful to see a clown standing there waiting for someone to ask for an autograph. That's actually so true, as the WCW chief chuckled, then shugged his long neck brew flair sarcastically spouted, Eric, you're showing your sensitive side, wiping the dripping beer from his bishof ignored Rick's swipe. Well, you know, the naptic convention feeds adrenaline through me, with huge deals going down all over the

floor. That's what I live for. I can't help it. We're writing business signing up affiliates for our syndicated show. He's the steak and I'm the fork and knife, and we're carving him up. I looked across the room at Bobby Heen and gene Oakerland, two announcers who had reached their height of celebrity things to their work on WWF television. They had been Vince loyalists for

many years before being lured by Turner's big money contracts. They slumped in noncharacteristic silence, seemingly embarrassed, perhaps feeling a twinge of guilt upon hearing Bischoff's characterization of their former boss. They sat staring at a picture of water that sat on the otherwise empty banquet table before them. That's so funny to think about he and Joly having a deal with is shitting on Vince all the time. Oh, can't say anything, but to have to be in the room at

the same time, yep. And then later on in the year at Slambury there was also that was the moment where competitor realized it was over because he hadded the mic over to the Michael Buffer and you know, he pretty much got the word that they had given up on him. He said Buffer was making six thousand dollars per night to two shows, which was, oh my god, quite a bit of money, especially considering he only he only uh contracted to main event matches, not the whole card, which honestly bea a

little weird for Michael Buffer to introduce Dustin Rhodes and Blacktop Bully. I kind of fine with that. Yeah, yeah, I am too, but he remembers. Uh. Buffer was to announce the final two matches at Slamboy ninety five, which were considered co features. Following the last preliminary match, I impatiently waited for Buffer to entered the ring with that warning, Big Bubba Rogers music began to play for the first co feature, I still had the ring

like, so I automatically introduced his match against Sting. I later learned that Buffer refused to introduce the co feature since his contract called on him to work only main events. This guy who's being paid six grand a night declined to work a second match, and the director didn't have the courtesy to let me

know. And so what's interesting is that Buffer Buffer actually does the ring announcing for arn Anderson versus Mark Merrow. The final match of the main event broadcast that really yeah, took place on TBS right before Super Brawl went live. They were leveraging that Sunday night TBS slot on pay per view nights to you know, do a live show like they used to do with Sunday Night Heat and stuff. And on Buffer did that match. So I guess that was

considered a main event of a different show. Wow. So Dugan was in play too, and he's got an interesting perspective because he was considered part of the whole Cogan crew that swept in a WW nineteen ninety four, and of course Dugan ran over Steve Austin infamously in ten seconds to win the US title and Steve never really came back from that in terms of WCW, and the

rest is history. But Dugan writes in his book, when it was those business oriented as WCW was getting the nineteen nineties, everyone was nervous about protecting themselves because there was a lot of mistrust, especially between the different groups. I think there was some resentment because a bunch of US came in around the same time and there was a perception that we were WWF guys us. The fact that business picked up almost as soon as Hogan got there, and then

kept getting stronger and stronger, probably created even more tension. The whole thing was dumb because in theory, we were all looking for WCW to succeed, but those of us in the Hogan group got to a point where we didn't care about the other camp getting pissed off. Our attitude was that it was all about the business, and business was going up, so anyone who didn't like it needed to put the business ahead of his own hurt feelings. Damn

right. So Doug Duggan's feeling like a king. Of course, feeling like he's king made you know, who's someone who who didn't necessarily see it as all all upside business? And maybe we should just shut our mouths and play along. Sure sure. Dave Sullivan, Oh, of course, of course he wrestles Kevin Sullivan in one of the most disastrous matches you'll ever see on a pay per view on this card and to here. Kevin Sullivan tell it in the podcast that he does with the folks at Two Men Power Trip and

is on Hannibal as well. He talks about what happened to uh Dave Sullivan shortly after the show. I'm going to tell you a story how Dave lost his job and this is a vicious thing and that happened. Okay, I in the group, it was to me an out and out, fuck you and fuck your family. You're gonna get fired. I'm not going to say who said it, but one of the Hulks protective group, we're at TV and some fan said, oh, he looks exactly like hal Cochin. That

person that was it. He went told Hulk, and he told Hulk got get rid of him. And that's how a very nice human being that busted his ass got fired by a guy that was sucking Hogan's ass and didn't give a fuck about the other human being. Okay, and the guy probably didn't even realize how vicious he was. He was just trying to protect help. Well, if you can't tell the difference between haw Covid and Dave Sullivan, you don't need to be watching wrestling. Why was this all of a sudden

a problem that he looked like hul Covid. That was the whole point of the whole storyline. And then right right, I mean I always thought that was exact for it. What's the deal. Kevin makes it sound like it's almost like it's one thing for them to realize that, but it's another for a fan to a goof like, Dave Sullivan looks exactly like hul Cocan because I don't know, I'm trying to like read what he's saying, and maybe that's like a knock I guess, you know, like the fans don't see

that I look way better than this guy. They say I look just like him, and he would, My god, would he come out in the exact same ring attire as Hogan. I mean, oh, I mean, I mean, Jesus Christ, he's gonna He's got a very similar physique as well, you know, a blonde hair with the thinning top and and and a and a similar kind of upper body look not as not as uh as defined per se as Hogan's like a little more flabby, but still like you know, not, I mean, there are a lot of there's he could

easily be a Hogan stand in. I just don't get how one of Hogan's protectors could just like run to him and say, hey, a fan said, Dave Sullivan looks like you. You've got to get rid of him. I mean that's like to me, that's like fucking Kevin Dunn and the WCW Invasion. Yeah, pretty much. You know, it's the exact same kind of mentality, like, how can you you know, why do you want

to have guys you know, beaten? You know, I don't want to have these guys come in and beat you work together so closely, like it's not like, right, I wonder in the car to look like Hulkin had nothing to do with Hulk on TV. He was fucking I know he was. He was a whole camaniac. That's that song you just played, right, very very very bizarre. It is very bizarre. Kevin clearly thought that

there was a screw the screws being put to uh. I guess someone talked Hogan and to think it's actually a problem that he looks just like you because already they've already given up on the Hulk of Maniac storyline with him. That's already done with so yeah, right, I mean yeah, but it was Kevin Sullivan idea, the whole Evad Sullivan thing. So he's probably a little jilted about, you know, his story ending up with the guy getting shit

canned and going absolutely nowhere for anyone involved. But Dave Sullivan did do an interview with Hannibal a little while later where they a little bit on it, and Dave sort of, you know, it doesn't seem like the kind of type to really dish and spill the tea, but this is what he did say about it, right, Yeah, that was kind of Kevin's kind of put that together, and Hogan agreed to it, so we went, we

went with it. Yeah, how did Hogan treat you? Okay, I mean he treats me like like he treats everybody else, Kainda, I think, kind of standoffish, even when you were tag team partners with him. Yeah, Mike wants to know if you think Bischoff was the right guy to lead w CW. No. No, I think when when when that happened,

I don't think that was good. He had no background, he was an announcer, He never had a background to run it, and I think he just pulled it off and got that job, you know, and kind of and then when Hogan came in, he got all those rights, and I think that's where it all went kind of south. So you felt the politics, I know, it got worse after Hogan came in when all in Nash and then you had all those clicks backstage. What was the atmosphere light

back there in those days? It was it was tense. I mean, it was just it was it just wasn't relaxed, just because you had all those people making decisions and not one person kind of guide the decisions. It was this decision. I think it was really hard enough. Kevin quite a bit trying to control it all, and then he especially lost control. I mean it's hard, it was. It was difficult. Too many, too

many voices did fucking coughing, I know, going on there. Yeah, he definitely did lose control and it was pretty much Flair running the book for a while there. Yeah, over and above his head. But Solomon is always there, you know. But he's better booking heat than Babyfaces. I mean, yeah, you know, that was the bottom line. His idea of like of the hero triumphing in wrestling was always like, what the fuck, Like, Jesus, where did that? Why does that have to be

so weird? Yeah, yep, But you know, whenever Kevin Sullivan comes up on the podcast, especially considering that we'll be on the ground in Philly here, real soon and who knows what kind of carnies will run into an encounter at the wrestle cons and things like that. I don't know. I get a little nostalgic. And with Philly coming up and another opportunity to uh to interact face to face with folks like this, I thought, let me

pull some sound at the time we met. Oh yes, Yes, pleasure to talk to such a last fan wrestling podcast, last fan, last last Yes, we're here with Kevin's Oliver and it is a distinct honor here at Starcast. Absolutely Kevin, what what is different about today's scene and what's missing from today's scene? I think that we're you guys are gonna see history made Sunday. This is a watershed mom come into all out business, get all in n you guys can come out because they give you what you want.

You're not getting something shoved down your throat. And I look for this to be the start of something very big for these guys. I mean, they sold the guidance out. I look for them to take this to London. You know they'll have all of Europe there, right. I mean I see nothing but good things. Guys from my generation, Sometimes everything's better back then. No, you know that these kids the most talented group of all times.

They've laid waste to cape though. I mean there's nothing left. But I think in some respects that you can enjoy it more because you know what they're doing and you know it's choreograph, but it almost gives you a thing when you say, God, how do they do it like back in the day? Mostly yeah, most. I saw something on TV Land. I

don't know if you know that yet. They had a Superman one right, and it showed the shooter from India was to win the belt and they boarded him up and cemented him in the dressing room because he was gonna shoot him the champion and all the other guys are saying, oh, he'll hurt us, he'll hurt us, And then Superman sees it. He knocks the door down and the guy goes in and beats the guy for the championship, and the promoter says, I love it. I love it real wrestling, and

I look at them copyright nineteen fifty three, fifty three. So we're going back that far. Can I ask you about Buddy Rogers and Patt O'Connor Miskey Park sixty one. Have you have you broken in yet? No? No, no, that was a decade before me. Oh decade, pardon, pardon, just you know, if you had perspective, that was those massive. I mean people still talk about that as the Chicago Landmark show. Yeah. And you know, here's something that I think has been over looked.

This is the home of professional wrestler myself? Do want network? You know, this was the first time so that I've heard some television people say to me, did TV make whistling or did wrestling make TV? It says so. I mean, it's almost a proper fitting that they came back with this historical thing here in Chicago. One more fact. Now you have things to get to. You're a Boston boy. Yeah, we're Boston boys ourselves. Cool. I saw a garden show in the seventies where you announced from Lexington.

Is that one where you grew up? Well? I grew up and I was born in South Boston. Then we moved to getting their Boston when I got to high school. Did you okay? Good? So take us what it's like. Take us through what it's like shoveling snow in the blizzard A seventy six, oh, It was brutal. It was brutal everything. It was the first time I ever went to a show that was snowed out. We went to a Portland, Maine, and we were snowed in for

three days. No towns. We were supposed to run Portland, Augusta and Lewiston. We got snowed in for three days. But it was it was wild, you know what I mean? There was nothing open. Did you shovel your own drive going up? Yeah? Of course, my potoos are gonna do it. How were you? Were you a fishing or did you you know, kind of get pissed off the whole time you had to do it? Yeah? Of course I've a passed software. I'm not gonna say anything to him. You know, bop me in the head, you know

that full little good correctness? Was it around? And maybe I would have been a better student, different one. Yeah, you have to duck two on that. Yeah yeah, yeah. Kevin is an absolute pleasure. Thank you for talking to us. I hope everything goes well for you this week. Thank you, thanks so much, very kind of copyright Yeah, nineteen fifty three, fifty three, so we're going back that far. Can I ask you about Buddy Rogers and padd O'Connor's Whiskey Park sixty one. I guess

we doubled up there. Oh yeah, that's great. It was so funny. Oh god, it's so funny. Isn't like the basement? Remember there's like many levels in the basement, yep, signing autographs and I'm like, I'm gonna asking about shoveling snow somehow, some way. Yeah, it's gotta happen. It's gonna happen. Oh man. So looking forward to more hijinks like that coming up in TLF on the ground is not to be fucked with.

Absolutely, And finally, we've mentioned him several times, but I guess the neutral party, to such degree as is possible with this guy in this whole thing is Rick Flair. Of of course, he's a man in between. He's kind of retired from the ring, yet he's got more power than ever in WCW, at least on paper and theoretically as head of the booking committee. But he's hating it. So how much of what we see at Super Brawl five is his deal? How much is Hogan's deal? How much

is Evader's deal? Is even involved? We turn his book quickly to get one last bit of situational awareness before we deep dive this nineteen ninety five WW pay per view Flair writs. Hogan always maintained creative control of his character and often had us fly down to Tampa to have booking meetings at his house. Secularly would come up within a contractors are, of course, not that it made any difference. We'd spend weeks putting a TV show together, but on

the night of the event he would come in and change things around. It's hard to be the booker when your primary job responsibility is making sure that one guy is happy. I know we've read this before, and this is why I gained some interesting insight. During this period. He was fixated Flair Rights

with Dave Meltzer's Wrestling Observer newsletter. Oh God, this so called dirt sheet that a lot of guys condemn, even though they regularly pass it around and read all the gossip, like Brettard mcfoley hoping thought the Wrestling Observer was the Bible. I swear he spent more time talking about Meltzer than sting, Ted Turner or Vince McMahon. I I once asked him, why would a guy with fifty million to the bank care so much about Dave Meltzer twenty million,

he corrected me. My entire motivation for being on the booking committee was finding a way to survive. I wasn't paid an extra dime, but the strategy frequently worked against me. I caught it, brother, brother, what's going on, dude? That's us. Don't don't mess with it. What's his dog that he posted videos of one time? Don't mess with her, brother, Don't mess with the dizzle, dude. I got a lot of heat from my relationship with Arn flair rights. I pushed for him to join the

committee. Well, he was on the committee because if you watch the credits on Super Bowl five, Marty Lundy is right there. That's right, That is true, And make no apologies about it. Arn's the perfect eye for that position. He is people skills. And by the way, Barry Darso said that arn Anderson was the one who came up with the black Top Bully name, So wow, there's a merit the knowledge and the authority, and perhaps the most important is respected by his peers. Not everyone shared my opinion,

and the friendship drove a wedge between Bischoff and myself. Once, when I suggested that Arne win the TV Championship, Eric sneered, you could roll Arn Anderson and shit and you wouldn't draw a fly. Let me explain just how defensive this was to me. It's by the fact that our matches are predetermined. Wrestlers are forced to be competitive with each other. We're independent contractors, so we have to find our own way in the business. It's almost

like we're not allowed to be friends. Even when wrestlers are nice to each other, they're still working around, walking around lonely. Yet Arne and I had become as close as brothers, and everyone knew it. For Bischoff to make a comment like that in front of a group of people was like slapping me in the face. I could practically hear Hogan's voice coming out of Eric's

mouth as he elaborated, Arn's not colorful. He doesn't move merchandise. Well, how many wrestlers did once they left the World Wrestling Federation marketing machine for WSW It's true. One guy who I was certain could sell a few T shirts was Randy much immense savage. He'd been relegated to an announcer's job in the World Wrestling Federation and could have been doing more. So Eric and I used the same strategy we employed to recruit Hogan. First, I called Randy

up. Then Eric and I flew to Florida and took him out to dinner, selling him on the company. Later, when the discussions turned to dollars and cents, Bill Shaw, who was Eric's boss and the turner hierarchy, asked me, is Randy Savage worth half a million? I think he is, I replied, name recognition. We're trying to build a company. He's another piece of the puzzle. He still got a lot left in him. I was happy when Randy joined WCW. We've been friends for most of my

career, but almost immediately, Hogan a pretty big influence on him. I felt that Hogan convinced Savage that they were bigger than the company. Soon it wasn't just Hogan messing around with finishes. He and Savage would go out in the afternoon, drink beer, show up at the building and start changing things with Eric's approval. After a while, Eric was drinking with them himself. The company was anxious for me to do something with Savage. But you may

recall they had retired me. Kevin Sullivan and I came up with an inventive way to get around this dilemma. March nineteenth, ninety five, I have uncensored. I stormed the ring dressed as a woman and jumped Savage in the middle of his match. Now that I was back, I could also interfere in Hogan' strap match with Vader later in the night, because Leon wouldn't lose to Hogan and vice versa. I did the honors. Of course, Ogan drag me in all four corners of the ring to get the win. It

was a mind boggling finish. How could an intruder come in and lose the match? Well, because the company was really fucked Wow with that, boss, we prepare ourselves to dodge this puppy. I go something for you. I'm glad it didn't come up. Oh okay, great, this is good regale me. So. Uh. I don't know if you know this or not, but I actually I had a uh. I would have access to a VHS copy of the show. Oh nice, I did not know that. And on the video you did the Nasty Boys thing. Yes, okay,

you can do it now. I won't do it, all right, you're gonna do it later. You had it all, oh darn excited. Yeah, this is they had it before the show started. They had this whole fucking skit and the Nasty Boys so bizarre. It must be like a

deal they cut with like Mary and Tourism or something. But you could play it, I guess, but yeah, I got it here, I got the fucking uh uh yeah it opens it comes again right before you get the the Turner Home Entertainment logo, and then this shit happens and you see them

go to the Science Museum an aquarium. They wit sprinkle things like this the home video releases so well, yeah, it's like their Colosseum video version, you know, with like the exclusive Colssum video exclude the one with real we had one time it was him walking around La right with talk about OJ and stuff. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah that was like nowhere. You couldn't find that anywhere besides the video itself so bizarre. But here this is uh,

here's the Nasty Boys, like completely not being nasty. It's kind of weird. Yes, sad you off in the Harbor, Baltimore, that's right with the Nasty Boys. They roping stopping her on the street score in the ring. We like to relax too, so did I. We're taking a corm of the lovely city of Baltimore and maybe, well, nasty sides and what about it? I don't know if I can handle the house. The air's too clean, moon, No bus engines are running, no smog is

settling in, no garbage is smelling, and no stores are smoking. I might have to get out of here before you know it. Well, they're not nasty. We're gonna have a good time. And why didn't feel a little feeding on the walls now? But we could do that? Oh my god? Yeah, nothing, nasty cats are right here. It's getting built. Yeah, I don't look so far? All right looking? Okay? Yes to say? So what they're doing is at the science museum is this

kind of kids science museum. They're building a tower out of legos on on a surface that can shake, so you can simulate an earthquake and just see and see if you created a building that was stayed to stand an earthquake. Yes, that's what there's your mine. Hey, what's just butting down here for? Don't push that fucking hi? Hi hi. We just built that up from scratch. It's supposed to the earthquake broke your building. Build it right. Next time we'll have to start over down. Let's go pick what

tell you this? I? What is this do? Ohright, guys? Where this works? How does this work? A second? I can show you how it works. Yeah, sure, sure, I'll tell you what I can. Step out on the side there. He's standing right up on this crate. All right, I just put your hand on the dom. Put my head over your Now what I do Now it's going hurt a bit, so sure, I'm absolutely positive the doom. All right, you're good. Hold on all right? I see this is our vandigraft generator. What

we created is is static electricity. Hey, you're standing up here, me coming covered in charge, your hair standing off there? It is she recovered negative charges just like this machine. Yeah, and similar elections charges will kill each other. Nice. Alright? Hey, what's out over there? Starting where you're going by? I'm getting shot burning off? Where's he going? Alright? I got shot in the back. Turn this thing offside all right? Whatever? Put him outside, cut it off. You're getting shot on,

dude, the biggest brawl of them all due what killed degree? Yet? Degreed? Put your hand byers. Are you ready? All right? One? Two, three, we're worn to go where fit is? No till guys, you see a big guy missing two big black mohawk, Yeah, exact, Yeah. I went on to the quays. Yeah, quarry, the staff and the s s the quarry, morrisey guy, where is he at? Hey? Did anybody see a big guy missing to mohawk? I don't see. Yes, I'm looking for a big guy missing to mohawk,

black hair mohawk? If like that? No, sir, what's in here? Oh? It looks a little bit like h Scary Sherry, sister Sherry's face. Oh wait a minute, wait a minute, he's picking up a horseshoe crab. Just so you know what it is. Oh my gosh, it's a horseshoe crab. And that's what Scary Sherry's face looks. O this look this, look, this looks a little bit like my partner SAgs. Look at even at teeth. Have you seen anybody like this around?

A face like this? I do recall somebody like that going to the rainforest side, No side, where is he at? Boy? It's hot here? We have to keep it. This st stop a strainfark. Really, it's kind of nasty, kind of enjoying myself a little. Let's not worrying about like clean on show me the rest of the tour, right, you need a little help with that? Come on, come on run. Let's all sorts this doll. Say. If you like dolphins, I have something you'll really like. You follow me? Okay, Aurrah, you're a nasty

boys. Hey, where have you been? Where you been today? Right behind me? Were all over the Science center looking for you, all over the aquarium. I couldn't fight teen whales. I've seen chips, I seen it all. Then you weren't around. When these two rotten kids locked me in the door in the submarine, I couldn't get out for an hour. Really, Hey, Dolphins show was about the stars were together? What's what? Arah? What an incredible day I had my pana wait, wait to

super Bowl? Eat up and let's go all right? All right, okay, all right, disgusting it's so viz. They munch on some Maryland crabs to close it out, right. Yeah, the Super Bowl five VHS jacket does have like a little burst, like a voice bubble on it. It says the nasty boys go on vacation so bizarre. And the extra footage I mentioned before was the Bashard the Beach ninety five cassette, which you know, Ah covered that. That's another Hogan Invader match in the cage on Huntington Beach.

And extra footage blue Blood's Tour Hollywood. Remember it was him and Bobby eaton Blue Blood's Tour Hollywood. Is that got Tom Selleck and uh Donny Walbury no comment? But yes, so much bizarre little side projects just to fill the home video box. I guess I don't know why they would do this. I don't know. I guess it makes you I want to go to

the Maryland Science Center. I guess it doesn't. But sure, so it's super Brawl five and before we deep dive this match by match, blow by blow, boss, I believe it's time for the Super Brawl five death toll. We do. It is time, It is time, and there are sixteen oh no, sixteen referee Randy Anderson. Sure well he's not actually fifteen. I don't know why I have Dusty Rose down here. He's not on the show. Well, he's on the main event as a co commentator.

Oh that's right, that's right. That's right, that's right. That's why I have him down right, because he's a co commentator in the main event. They play clips of it in favor attacks them, Dusty Rhodes, Gene Okerland, Bobby Heenan, Harley Race Barely, Nick Bockwinkle, Sister Sherry, Pedro Morales. Wow, he's there as a commentator for the Spanish feed. Miguel Alonso. Oh wow, his commentator Parker Yep, Paul Orndorf, Brad

Armstrong on the main event show, Dino Casanova. Sure, one of the two brones that Vader beats up Yep, Randy Savage, the Avalanche, Big Bubba Rogers and the man they call Vodder. Wow. Yeah, Vader's gone. That's crazy. Yeah, you said heenan, Right, I did say Heenan. Oh. Bless them all, Bless super Brawl five and join us, ladies and gentlemen on this one of a kind adventure. What happens when the Hulkster and the man they call Vader collide one on one for the very

first time. About to find out on the flip side of this break, it's that fucking cast