Ep. 384: WWE's Royal Rumble 2008 (Part 1)

It's the Lapsed Fan Wrestling podcast with Jack and carn S e O and JP sorrows He's a lapsed fan in all my years and rest you never seen anything.

And it's the laps Fan man number one in the ring begin a Boussada were the real king of swing with the bell goes eggs and the kick like me throwing in the corner but gets rash like stick even Jerry King you can take off the crowd nodding his head like a see low Brown would just getting low down for the goat, even high up flipp you on your head, but you know cool drive you speaking more now and Dragon spits fire if you more shot than in Edge retire dropping more truth than the con of sniper less

you would a coconut Roddy Piper check a JP you like Jay d drop the cupcakes and gold the brain Bob means the best podcast for the start the close flop you are benefits a classic and pose you know in life in general, I think keeping a promise is a good practice. And one of the things we promised years ago when we launched the Hopper was that we were going to try to, I don't know, make some sort of an allowance for the

fact that it gets a little out of control in terms of denominations. Yes, and last year around Christmas time, are you talking about nations of denominations and nations of denominations. That's exactly right. Nations of different branded currencies as it were. Oh yes, different reserve currencies, different references currency. And it's wherewithal. Okay, you appreciate branded currency, and it's wherewithal yes,

I do. Right now that that's established, we said, you know, around Christmas time, what we'll do is anyone who keeped kept bidding for the Hopper but didn't win, we're going to pick one of them at random and give them a free Hopper show as an extension of goodwill. And while we wanted to do it around Christmas time, due to lapsed Funk and a ton of other things, we were up against it and it took a while for us to come up for air, so to speak. Virgil passed away.

That put it off. But now here we are a path was the winner, the first sort of winner. You know. We did a warrant to Cliff a year before that when his wife reached out about how much a Hopper show would cost, and he said, how might we just give it to

you for free? And here we are the two thousand because it was like a couple couple hundred bucks something like that, wasn't She's like, well, you know, why don't we tell you what I'm kind of ashamed to tell you how much it goes for so exactly, yeah, you don't want to know how much your your husband was willing to put down, so we're right. To his credit, he tapped out, that's why I felt like we should do it, because he was like, guys, can't responsibly do it

for my family. It's like, I get it, but we but but we also have to deeply express her appreciation for those who did go that hard and did go that that strong. Is this the only thing that makes is worth it? I mean, good luck facing your family taking as much time as we do to make this punch as much as it does without someone in

the universe saying it here, it's worth this much, you know. And here we are, thanks to the hopper, thanks to PAV, thanks to the solar system, and thanks to TLFX, and we're landing on the two thousand and eight WWE Royal Rumble. That is the selection the Hopper does it again us thoughts. I mean, it's not a show that I really ever

thought i'd revisit in my lifetime. I mean, you know, I think I said, and I know, I don't know if I watched the I was looking at the dates of everything, and I was going through old emails from back then, and I definitely know I was not I I wasn't I was in the country when it happened, but I wasn't deaf. I definitely wasn't focused on the royal rumble because I was planning to leave the country on the Monday, the day after the pay per view. But I did watch

the replay. I watched the replay in Belgium, which I don't know. If you want to get into my story at this point, yeah, go ahead, Oh god, Okay. So this was a year after Premonition, and I had gone through a rough breakup and was not doing well and was struggling to find work out in la and I just run the Honolulu Marathon and I'm working on this well you know, you know the movie. You know the documentary that I edited, the documentary, if you will, the documentary

that's right. And by the way, nothing more breakup to do the run of marathon. By the way, Oh, I know, like I was actually kind of pissed that that I'll show her right, well, yeah, I'll show her moment. But also I was I was pissed that I was pissed that that that Simon Pegg made a fucking movie about the exact same thing before I could fucking do it. Come on, dude, like really so

uh uh So. Anyway, so I'm working on this, this this documentary with my my neighbor, and all of a sudden, I get an email from her and it says, you have to do this, and I'm like, oh, what does she want now, because she was that kind of a neighbor, like she was just, oh my god, Mirah, Mirah. She was a she was a fucking trip. And so I opened the email and it's about this woman who she was acquainted with. And this woman, her name is Inga. She's lovely person. She she basically she had

adopted. She was in the United States, but she's a Belgian citizen and she and her visa was up and so she had to go back to Belgium. And when she was at Lax flying back, security said that she couldn't take her new bunny that was established in Los Angeles as a you know, what do you call it, like a service animal? Service animal? Yes, it's a service animal, emotional service animal. And so they said, nope, the bunny doesn't have the proper paperwork. Wow, and so what

about the butcher. That's exactly right, And so I said okay. And so I'm reading this email and so she's basically offering to fly anybody, anybody out to Belgium to bring her bunny to her. And so I'm like, oh my god, like, okay, that's great. I love the idea, but really like, come on, like that's I said, all right, let me think about it. And so I'm like, I'm like running it by friends. I'm calling my parents like you know, what do you

I don't know, what do you think? And then everyone's like you should go do it. I'm like okay. And so now three hours have passed and I'm thinking, and I'm what am I I'm twenty seven years old at the time, and I'm almost I'm twenty six, and I'm like, well, there's no way that I'm going to be doing this now because hours have passed and somebody's surely bit on a fucking free trip to Belgium, you know. And so I email and I said, hey, you don't know me.

I know this person who's acquainted with you that if you still need help, I'm you know, I'll do it. Five minutes later, I get a call with this woman crying on the phone. She's so grateful, wow that I won't do this. Wow, Like oh, okay, so this is going to happen. And I so yeah. So that that was like

on a Thursday, and the following Monday, I'm over the weekend. I've had to like basically get this bunny and move it into my apartment and you know, take care of it for the weekend, and then prep it for flight on Monday morning. And I'm like, okay, so I do. And I mean the whole flight was it was a crazy you know. They

they say that you shouldn't put bunny rabbits on the floor. You can't put them in in like the the regular animal area, and you shouldn't put them on the ground because the rumble, the rumble from the the engines can kill them. Is that right? Oh yeah, that's what someone told me. This rumble is going to kill us, right, damn right. And so I was like okay, and so but I'm I'm I'm so, I'm in my flight and I'm I'm squeezed into the far you know, I'm in the

window seat and I've got everybody around me. It's like, I'm I'm so confined. And the the you know, the the stewardess or the sorry of the flight attenant comes over and says, sir, you have to put that down. That that that piece of luggage under the seat in front of you. I'm like, I can't do that. It's like, no, sir, you have to put this down the scene in front of me. I said, I can't do that. Bunny will die, right, Just no,

sir, you have to. I'm like okay, And so I put it, put it there, and then I'm like, I put it on the floor, but I put it on, put the carrier on my toes, on my feet and my toes so at least I'm like, okay, at least it's not touching. I'm like doing everything I can and she uh uh uh. And then so the we we get off the ground, you know, we're in the air, and I'm the moment we get off the ground. The guy in front of me pushes his seat back and it's out. I can't wake him up. He's out, So I can't get down

and get the fucking bunny off the floor or off my toes. So I have to fly from La to Colorado's Denver with with my feet, my heels on the ground, feet up the whole fucking flight. Granted, it's not a long flight, so I was kind of lucky, but still it's like not comfortable at all, and I'm like thinking to myself, Oh my god, this bunny's gonna die. Do I tell this woman I mean this fly back home? Or do I lie and not tell her and get my free

trip to Belgium? Like what the fuck do I do? Wow? Fortunately, the bunny was fine and we ended up making it all the way to Belgium and I was there. I was there for three weeks. I was sitting in Belgium for three weeks. This is where this. I was in Belgium when we had that insane ben Wa dialogue over g chat. Is that right? Yeah? I was in Belgium when that happened. And because I remember sitting at that desk, because the woman she's lovely ingas she's a wonderful,

wonderful person, but she just fibromyalgia. So it's like and she doesn't really she doesn't take care of her She didn't take care of herself in like the right way. Like she would do crazy active activity and then be out like the next day. So it's like if we did something one day, I was basically, you know, isolated to the house for the next day.

I see, but it was, you know, it was crazy, and I send it for three weeks and and then at one point again all the craziness happened while you know, the Rumble was happening, and so I didn't even I was like, oh shit, the Royal Rumble happened. And then I don't know how, but there was like a I believe maybe it was on the dot com or it felt like I seemed to remember it was on YouTube for some reason, and I was able to watch the rumble match,

not the whole show, but I watched the Rumble match. Yeah, this was before they were very intense about right copyright strikes and stuff, but it was on It was on there, and I remember watching the whole match and and being shocked by the scene of thing just like blown away by that. Were you aware that he was out with an injury. I knew he was out with an injury. I remember that because I remember you and I laughed about the fact that this guy's fucking entire you know, muscle was ripped

off his bone. We joked about that. Really, Yeah, yeah, totally. And yeah, So so I knew he was out, and I thought he was going to be gone till they kept talking about who he was going to be gone for, you know, at least six to eight months, and and it's like, there's no way he's going to be at the

Rumble, There's no way he's going to be WrestleMania. So I go, okay, So I'm like just going going through the motions here and then all of a sudden, dude, damnay and there there he is, like in his little pose and and he comes out and takes off his shirt the way he takes off his shirt, and and uh and he's there. Yeah,

I remember. It was It was crazy because I'd watched these things, you know, on days that that she was out and basically sleeping all day, and so I'd take the opportunity just to do shit on the Internet and whatever. Amazing. Yeah, I remember that. This is how I was in Belgium. Still when when the Patriots lost to the Giants, well this was that. There's references to that game being upcoming on the pay per view are, yes, there are, and I I was the undefeated season that wasn't

uh huh. I was up till oh man, it was, it was, but I couldn't watch the game live. We weren't at that level yet in terms of Internet viewing, and so I was basically just on Google and I had the Super Bowl. You know they have like the the progress of the game, yes, and so refresh, refresh, refresh, refresh. I was up until well, I mean whatever it was. I must have been up till like five in the morning. Complete wreck, yeah, complete

wreck. And then when they lost, I'm just like I couldn't. I was like, okay, you know what, I was like, I took me so long to go to sleep, and I was just miserable, and I said, okay, just at least at least, you know what, you're in Europe. You're in Europe, so you know what, You're not going to have to endure any of this shit because nobody cares right, nobody cares. And not only that, you're in Belgium. Nobody fucking cares in Belgium. We go out. The next day, I see a newspaper fucking

eighteen and one. I was like, are you fucking it's? Go get the fucking matter with you. Go get some fries. I know. Oh I did, Oh, believe me, I did. I had my fill of waffles and fries they have. Have you been to Belgium, no, sir ah, So they have. They actually have French fries. It's crazy, but I guess the French fry was made in Belgium. Was a venting in Belgium, which is hilarious. And I I they have these stands out there just for French fries and they have so many fucking sauces, so many

different kinds of sauces. I fucking loved it. I had a great time. Belgium is a wonderful, underrated country. It's a beautiful, beautiful place. And uh yeah, tons of waffles they actually had. So they have vending machines like anyone else has a veting machine, but they have waffles in the veting machines like bagged waffles or in the vending machines. It's like, okay, all right, I'll take it, heat it up, butter done?

Wow? Had had? We went to the place too where the location of where they had the World's Fair whenever that whenever, And in there there's a snack a snack bar at the kind of the I mean, it's certainly better well kept than the ones in Queens, which is a shame. I love the ones in Queens, but it's very well captain. It's a big tourist attraction in Belgium, and so I would go there and they have a snack bar and it was like you can either get you know, waffle or

ice cream. And I'm like, I don't know. I want a waffle like I had waffles almost every day I was there. But I also want ice cream like they had. I forget what it was. It was some kind of very unique flavored ice cream. And my friend was like Inga was like, I don't you get both? Have the ice cream on the waffle. And I was like, are you cream? Are you crazy? What

the fuck I can do that? That's that's the title of my book, Get both, Yes, stopping a bitch, Get both, Ring a bitch to get both and I did, and it was one of the greatest desserts I've ever had. Wow, look at that. It's like an ice cream melting on a freshly made crispy waffle. Fuck it, fuck it. Well, there's a unique way to take in the two thousand and eight Royal Rumble. It totally was. It totally was. I can picture being in that place. I was just watching it on pay per view with a pizza.

I mean, yeah, I feel not up to snuff at this point. Well, at least you had to watch it in grainy YouTube video. And I got to watch the first ww pay per view ever in high definition HD, and it was. It was the beginning of an earra. We'll talk to pav later about it. But just the thought, the notion boss that for some wrestling fans, their childhood memories of wrestling, their core memories, are in HD. That's unbelievable to me. And it's not like these are

ten year old kids now. These are you know, going on thirty year olds now that had this experience. These are their glory years. Their glory years were rectangular imagery in HD clarity. And you want to think about TLFX man, people spent their entire thirties listening to that cast. They can't think about that reality, think about that responsibility, right. I spent most of my thirties recording that cast. Absolutely, yeah, right, spend you spent

it listening? Think how long we spent doing it? Because it's recording plus preparation. But I got gray hairs than I should have because of that. It continues to perpetuate itself because it's it's something special and the verdict is in. And before we jump into the two thousand and eight Royal Rumble, another proof point that is absolutely taking off like we couldn't have expected is TLF hitting

the City of Brotherly Love April seventh, noon Punchline, Philly. TLF takes the stage for the only premium live event you need as opposed to want WrestleMania Weekend, and some of our friends from the stand up comedy world, Lameri Lee and so many others ygoots. It's going to be a terrific event. And if I'm to gauge by how many people I'm hearing or buying tickets and what the venue is saying, and this is going to be a fucking oh bakanal. This is going to be a blowout in Philadelphia. I am so

excited and horrified like I was last year. Well, you can't have one without the other, exactly, No, no, no, they go hand in hand and it's going to be it's going to be equally terrifying and amazing at the same time. Can't wait to see so many of these amazing Solar System members and beyond that are coming out to see us do the only wrestlming

you preview and review show that you're going to need. And of course TLF delivering the truth of professional wrestling today, right, TLF looking you in the eye and saying, we know how pathetic it is that you can't think of much else besides pro wrestling most of your spare time. Let us figure out why that's the case. We know why you're We know why your days are depressing. We know why you you you you you take a long time to get out the door in the morning. All right, we get it.

We know what you're looking at on your phone when you should be paying attention to other things. Right, We certainly know what you're listening to when you should be listening to other things. That's right, And let us leave punchline Philly and the Bozo's Biceps and Bullshit Brunch can the video promo that I made. I'm actually so surprised. The two things that I'm surprised about about that.

Number one the fact that I guess really it. There were no issues on any of the platforms that I've that we posted it to regarding the the cow feces, the secretion of actual manure. And the other thing is nobody comments on it. Nobody actually has said, oh my god, that's so fucking gross, Like nobody said that. I think that's hilarious. I'm not

sure people know what it is they're looking at. Maybe they don't, but like, you know, if you get it, it's like, you know, we have the Bozo's, the guy flying off the top rope, we have biceps close with the biceps, and we have bullshit and that's literal, literal cowshit coming out of the look if we're going to bring back the Biceps Weekend Brunch. Yes, I mean, I have it on good authority that Lex Luger may attack us with a loaded forearm. I have I have heard

about that. I mean I don't have I'm not too worried about avoiding his blow considering can't get out of his wheelchair. But it's gonna be like a slow, you know, wheelchair maneuver. But you know, you never know, I might just sell it for him, just for the sake of it.

Let us leave Punchline Philly on April seventh with some modicum of self respect, or at least having come to terms with what it all means, and what it means that we find ourselves, you know, irreparably connected to a business that puts us in the position that Vince's behavior put us in right, and what do we do about it? We go to WrestleMania. That's what we do about it, and we'll explain why that is the case. Yes,

as well on April seventh, only only for live attendees. I think we're really going to stretch that this time because some of the things that we plan on addressing, some of the things that we plan on delivering the truth about, getting to the heart of the matter, saying the kind of things that make you look in the mirror ten minutes longer in the morning. I'm not sure that should be recorded for posterity. Okay, folks, and you should know by now, But if you don't and it's a crowded field,

so your chances are getting lesser by the day in the week. If you buy your ticket ahead of time and send proof of purchase to the Lapsed Fan at gmail dot com, you will be entered into a raffle to win an authentic Terry Funk branding iron, and unbelie listen to the Lapsed Funk knows that as part of that journey, we obtained a branding iron and a series of other materials from Terry Funk's very own a state sale and we feel it appropriate

being just miles from the UCW arena where you lit the thing on fire and kind of lit the promotion on fire as well, that we offer that as a special gift for your attendance. But again, you cannot qualify for that raffle unless you send us in advance of the show your proof of purchase to the Lapsed Fan at gmail dot com. So we're really excited. I do wish we could have branded somebody. Well, yeah, I mean that's kind

of it's kind of tough considering the valves skewering the skin. I mean, if someone volunteers, it's not murder y, well, hopefully not I guess it depends on how they react to it. But but yeah, this is this is let me tell you this has taken off. The venue is very happy from what we here. It's for a Sunday afternoon. Like sure,

we're coming hard, We're coming strong. They're coming from all over, and we need to give copious thanks and shout outs to all the different folks who have put their hand up to do interviews and to you know, help us get the word out and spread the word. You'll be hearing about those in the days and weeks to come. But let it be known that tf will be in the ground in Philadelphia, and it's going to be very hard to pretend you didn't notice. Oh yes, by the time all is said and

done, so we can't hit that hard enough. Punchline Philly. Just go put Punchline Philly into Google, go to their schedule of events, scroll on down April seventh, and there you will see, in all of its glory, the lapsed fan logo against a backdrop of an apocalyptic burning Philadelphia. Boss. Yes, absolutely, is that not how it should be. That's what it's going to be. Like what a TLFX celebration. That's the pain we bring. That's the reality that Philadelphia will be under when TLF gets hard in

the city of probably Love. It's exactly correct. And the mailbox is open, by the way for TLFX recollections, which you've been hearing weekly since the dawn of twenty twenty four. Here as we celebrate ten years of TLF love to have your audio recollections on what TLF has meant to you, So send your pieces of audio to the Lapsed Fan at gmail dot com and we'll put the best ones up for all to hear in our main feed. That's rocking

and rolling. We're also proud to continue offering strong, full throated thumbs up and support to our friends at Titan Nutrition who are still very much in our corner as we continue to thoroughly pillage the wrestling podcast space. Titan Nutrition, of course, as you know, offers a full line of expertly formulated nutritional

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with a TLF approved product, right break absolutely, come on? Why would you not? Right? You? Should you need to, We're all there, and similar to everything else, we'd love to see proof of purchase at lapsed fan at gmail dot com the lapsed fan at gmail dot com as well for Titan purchasers, we'd love to give you shadowed as well for for doing the right thing, getting yourself into shape. But of course there's no greater vessel to show support to the podcast than the engine that has kept this thing

running for ten years. The upside surprise in those early years that we cannot believe. You know, we knew we were broadcasting to people who needed it,

we knew we were delivering a podcast that was resonating always. Not until patreon dot com slashed a lapsed fan went up live collecting those fucking fees, ah, did we realize that this is actually that this is the kind of proof of concept that the greatest hater in the world has to shut the fuck up about when they notice that the people are willing to put this much toward it to keep us going and willing to give nothing to their bitch asses.

And so that's evident. April seventh, that's evident. Patreon dot com slashed the lapsed fan, and that's evident Boston, the enthusiastic response to the latest journey under the cinemat Oh yes, or the executive producer tire and above we continue, don't we down the James Bond chronology? Yes we do, Yes, we do. And let me tell you, I don't think there's there's a day that goes by where we're not trying to to to to listen.

I'm always trying to get all of them on there always, and there's probably going to be a you know, a substitute journey at some point to go

into the missing Bonds. But even even now, I we but but you know what, uh and and I'm so desperate to get them all in that that I have to you know, I even ask Jack I you know, because there was a we were sent a video about to disqualify all James Bonds just from the on the sheer fact that that there was an entrance that was inspired by James Bond for for mister Czarro in w Right, they showed the

yeah, like they have the same kind of in the video. It's like the the little the balls that go across and then he came out like into a spotlight and you know, move around. But but you know, I said, I don't know, Like there's a part of me that wants to just accept this, and but I I I feel the need to be true. But I was like, you know what, maybe it does, Maybe does qualify. So I sent him to Jack and he's like, no, no, this doesn't work. This doesn't work. I think nothing else.

We should at first make sure that we address because there's scopious amounts of this the Bond films with wrestlers in them, because yeah, or or or or at least the Bond films that inspired something, you know, that does that qualifies if there if there's a wrestling villain out there that is very much inspired by a a James Bond character of any sort, you know that that definitely qualifies it. That qualifies that Bond film, But not the entire franchise,

the entire franchise. No, no, no, that's what the tough call is. You know, it's one thing to do Cape Fear because of bray Wyatt, But if there were thirty Cape Fears? Can we do thirty Cape Fears because the first one inspired bray Riott? I think not the fact that the fact that you know that same thing, like we I'm not doing the

original Cape fear, you know, because of that. No, it definitely it they're they're I mean because also I mean in that regard to because the I was reading about how de Malenka was very much they had they gave him a double oh seven character. Don't called like double host seven or something like that, or fucking hell when was this in Russo ti at ww. Yeah, he was given a James Bond like it was a It was a it was a James Bond version of the Godfather. So fucking stupid. It is

so fucking stupid. I mean, it's impossible to remember most of this stuff unless you get like encyclopedic about it, just for the lulls, you know, which I respect, by the way, there's an element of that, but I like, it's not like all the Bonds inspired that. It's very hard when we say bond and out of the cinemat if you know the franchise, you know the movies we have to do, yes, and we're going

to do those first, got it for sure. Whether there's room to expand the aperture a little bit as a future discussion, but right now we've got business to attend to and everything's going to be talked about, and I'm and i'm again I'm open to adding if they're down, you know, like Sad

from Russia's Love. It's it's not going to happen this at this point because we've passed it in the chronology of things and and hopefully it'll come around again and we can and we can fill that hole because we do like filling holes. But yeah, that's one thing we do do. That's right. This just this last week Goldfinger, Man, what a fucking journey that was. Oh, what a terrific episode and Harold Sakata ladies and gentlemen talk about a treasure. Oh, just to be able to you know, that's I've said

it before. I say it pretty much every week. One of my one of the joys that I get out of it is being able to talk about wrestlers that it's not really likely we'll talk about, to be able to watch matches of featuring wrestlers that we're not probably going to talk about on the main show. You know. It just it's just not within within the likelihood.

You never know, you know, we've scritically touched on it. It's not going to be like this where Yeah, there's cause to actually go soup to nuts on the person's contributions and pull up demands from newspaper archives because they're isolated, you know, it's like it's an isolated thing and it's really about that

wrestler, and they're not always superstar wrestlers. That's the thing too, Like Under the cinemat is totally forgiving of the fact that this person might not have been a wrestling superstar and there might not be three hours worth of things to say about the person. Perfect we have a seat at the table for those types of wrestlers as well. Yep, exactly, And and I love I

love digging into that and finding out about these people. And yeah, so I'm not going to say what's up next on this one because this one's going to be this one's kind of a surprise and it's going to be a little out of left field. That's another thing about not doing every Lapsed Bond movie in order is that people preserve that sense of surprise, kind of like the two thousand and eight Royal rumble, Who's number thirty going to be? Yes,

it is, who's number thirty going to be? You're obliged as a wrestling fan to preserve a surprise if you have, it's what's film number three on? In the Carnies are Forever tour? I have to find out. And just like I told you to stand down on Virgil research last time, what a fucking how worth it was? That how worth it was that I feel really good about it looking back looking at the feedback, that was an appropriate tribute. That was as tlf as it gets and as TLFX as it

gets. So we're very glad that folks were forgiving of the fact that we spent so much time on a kind of a fringe wrestler. But you got it by the time it was over. You understood why we were uniquely positioned to do what we did relative to the now late Virgil. There aren't There aren't people who really would have had that. I mean, I don't I can't think of you know, I wonder how many fans had such a unique yeah, you know, like interaction with him. It's by far the most

personal story we'll ever be able to tell visa via wrestler. Yeah, for sure, And sure we just didn't. We don't spend a lot of time trying to meet and know these guys or anything like that. We don't want to hang out with them, they don't want to hang out with us.

It's a great thing, right and and so one uh bonus we were able to throw to our patron, speaking of Patreon, was to get our hands on on the raw video you heard from Bill who actually rolled tape when Virgil showed up at GP's bachelor party in twenty twelve, and he had it on video when we didn't even know about it, or we forgot about it, whatever the case may be, when we reconvened to pay tribute to Virgil. There's the video. You heard the audio of it on the episode, but

available now to patrons and its entirety. All the video shot that night as Virgil makes his way through the cigar bar, shot on twenty twelve cell phone camera. Like, it's great, it's it's it's grainy, it's it's it's dark. The audio sucks, the you know, the it's a little what do you call it when I can't think of the the when the motion isn't completely smooth. Yeah, it's like the motion blur kind of like you know,

it's it's what, it's what it should be. Honestly, for a video like that, and to actually sit through and watch it with all those guys who were there. Man, what a what a fucking treat, And it's it's just a hilarious to say nothing of Papasarrow, which the Solar System fell in love with him instantly. Oh I know, Oh, I know,

does he know about it? What do you say? Yeah? I told him, I I I I took screenshots to some of the the the comments, and I also I told him too, how we kept in the first conversation and I said, yes, said it's hilarious, and he was like, you did. I was like, yeah, yeah, we kept it in. It was so funny. People love it, you know, and the whole fucking Raymond, Yeah, call me back at nine, oh right exactly or at nine ah. So yeah, that's that's up there for

you. If you're a patron, you can see the entire video patreon dot com slash lapsed. Mean, that's the engine that's the heart of the Solar System from the moat tier, that elite sort of you know, ruling class that sits above us all and says, you know, without my beneficence, you wouldn't have shit to chew on and all the way down to you know, the volume of patrons, all the way down to the three sixteen tier. We hold you all dear in our hearts and continue to try to deliver

for you. And let me tell you if the past is any indication, when you're co chairman, get on the ground in Philadelphia heat of April seventh, we are not going to be able to help ourselves but to begin diaring the fuck out of this. Listen, as we've done before, TLF will be on the ground, It's absolutely correct, and we'll be noticing things.

We will be noticing things, yes, and we will be documenting. We'll be in attendance at Lincoln Financial Field both Knights of WrestleMania as well, So you want to be plugged into our Patreon for whatever may come from that. It's going to be an absolute cornacopia of TLF perspective and right hands and left hooks and fucking teep kicks up the middle, okay, because your co chairs don't stop until the referee steps in. That's what's up coming up Wrestlomania weekend.

Patreon is where to be. Patreon is where to prove your worth, and we're looking forward to delivering for you once again that front, yes, and we do need to encourage folks as well to check out a partnership we're increasingly proud of as responses come in to Dark Side of the Ring Unheard. You know, over the years we formed a bond with those guys because they get it. In particular, Evan Husany's the executive producer. He gets it.

He gets the TLF is definitive. That TLF puts it on the shelf and provides the launch point for stories worth telling about this strange industry exactly. And through Unheard we plumb their own archives of sound and insight to you know, give airing to things that otherwise wouldn't really have a basis. We're good at that, yes we are. We're good at being like our Everybody else can can gravitate like flies to a moth's to a flame, to the same

insights and the same beats on the same stories. But here's something that has no home. Here's an orphan insight that's fucking fascinating. If you're like us,

uh, that is really our probably are our best. One of our best calling cards is the idea that we do we no detail is too small in fact, the smaller the better, right, And and but that we gravitate towards people, you know, like we we know like when we're on when we're on the ground and we go to any wrestling event, we know who we want to interview, and we know what you would want us to

notice. You know. It's like, you know, everyone's going to be like, you know, wanting to gather like a Cody Roads or whatever they like. No, no, we don't want that. I fuck that. That's that's boring. We want, you know, we want uh, you know, an oscar for men on a mission that slaps right. That's where I sat. Yeah, it's it's it's It may not be boring to get Cody Roads, but the point is we can make something ten levels below Cody

Roads interesting because we have the we have the same brain you do. And that's the beautiful alchemy of the whole thing, the symmetry of the whole thing, and so exactly. Dark Side of the Ring unheard, no uh, no exception to that rule. Check it out on all your major podcasts platforms. New episodes come out every Wednesday, the day afternoon. Episodes of Dark

Side of the Ring of course premiere on Vice TV. So excited to bring unheard to the masses and to deliver some fascinating subjects still to come on that

series. So it's all rocking and rolling. We're here because Pav said, you know what twenty oh eight Rumble is where I'm taking you guys, strap yourselves in and if you're wondering why while we're about to answer the question, we talked to Pave of course, and we're going to hear from him now on being selected to get a gratuitous Hopper pick and we'll be back with you after getting insights from Pave as to why we're here on that fucking cast.

Boss. In general, it's good to keep promises, am I right? Yes it is, and over ten years as TLF kept its promise absolutely and no exception. Here today, as at long last, and with much delay due to a million things going on, we finally are prepared to deliver on

a promise when we launched the Hopper. We know over the years that it became difficult for people who's understandably ceiling wasn't quite as high as some of the deeper pocketed members of the Solar System to really feel like they had a shot yep. And when we first did the Hopper, when it was the Patreon listener Request series, all it took was you know, relatively small pledge, and we realized really quickly, bossed right that we can't do it that way

because why because it hurts us and that's and that's and that's unacceptable. It takes the show over for like three years because of how many people want to bite at that apple. So fine, we did it as an auction and it blew away our expectations again. You know, I'm going to say I have I had my reservations at bert At first, I had my extreme reservations. I was very opposed to it, and then we kind of it's worked

out very well. So absolutely I can't complain. And members of the Solar System, by winning the Hopper have taken us places that we otherwise never would have went. And it's always nice to do that with the tailwind of knowing there's somebody out there for whom it's valuable. And so even if it pushes us outside of our comfort zone, so be it. Far be it for us to dictate every single term. We can dictate ninety five percent of them,

thank you very much. But I mean, you know what, sometimes our voice needs to be heard in places that are uncomfortable for us, and that's correct, and a bit from that category, a bit from this category here this time, because as the hopper took off, we realized that, you know, folks kept trying to get in there, kept trying to win, kept getting out bid at the last minute. It always seems to come

down to the wire. And we thought, well, what can we do for folks that clearly wanted and need it but can't get across that finish line. What can we do to incentivize them to continue to bid, to continue to find value in the hopper and not just view it as some sort of impediment to what they desire and need and thirst for. So we thought, you know, we'll do people who lose will get put into a pot, and we'll choose at random every year as sort of a holiday gift as Christmas

time comes around, someone that gets a free hopper. We started it. Of course, you might remember with Cliff. It just came out of nowhere. His wife emailed us said, hey, you know, I heard about this thing where maybe for a Christmas gift form I can pay for a show. How does that work. Being horrified at how much it actually would cost, I just you know what, Instead of telling you and then you, I'm convincing him to never listen to this podcast again. How about we just

give it to him for free as a gift. It was around the holidays, it made sense, and so we decided going forward that we would give away a hopper selection. Now all the way back around Christmas time, our guest here this week, Pav got the message that he indeed was drawn from the random selection of the list of names of folks that had tried several times and and didn't win. And it's the two thousand and eight WWE Royal Rumble

and a little fascinating little show in its own right. We're pleased to welcome Path to the show. Now. Path, First, your reaction when you realized that you're the guinea pig for this free hopper concept. I mean, first, I must say, like I've never been happier, so be called it broke boy in my life after just getting the soul out because I did, I lost a lot of times, even going back to twenty twenty one.

It's funny because I have memories of sending the email because I did make it pretty far, like I did have some pretty oh yeah bets, so like I'm my bets, my bet of offers. And it's pretty funny because I remember sitting in my car and sending an email I think for like seven hundred ones and I'm like, ship that's us d as well. Like so it's funny how it all came back. So I was sitting and I got the email and I was like, wow, this is It didn't seem real.

It never seemed real, and it's kind of crazy that a podcast can have that much power over you and in you. I guess, as you guys like to say, but it was. It was. It was real. It was shocking, and I'm like, I didn't think it was real for a second, Like let me check the email and me like, you know where you can check the Gmail. I'm like this better not say like a Yahoo or something. It's like that's not them. So no, it was. It was surreal, but no, it was. It was amazing.

I'm happy to be here. Thank you guys. Who who you losing paid off? Well, Hey that's that's that's kind of the laps fan life and then a wrestling podcast possible. We are wrestling. We got a space for the losers, right, Yeah, that's right. If anything, I think the Virgil showing up your bachelor party proved that, right absolutely. I mean who I mean, you know who suffers most and in the wrestling world losers. So I mean that's you know else h us creators too, Loki.

Yeah, Pa is the guy behind. Tell him about it. No, it's okay, it's not that, So it's not about that. But yeah, I just make wrestling videos on YouTube as well. So it's just funny because I know kind of the little struggle that we have, as we talked about before in the wrestling You call in once, it's like, hey, what do you do? Uh, you know, I make videos on YouTube? Yeah what about you know where? You know where it goes from

there. So I can only imagine the horror JP when you put up to New York all excited for your off Broadway show and then it was time to answer a question. It's always like because then you immediately become a goon, like you're just completely like you know, it's you're now like a jack in the box, you know, essentially, and then all they want to do is put you back in the box and then and then and then twist it around again and wait for you to pop up and laugh at you. We

are subhuman, degenerate. It's like we have no voice anymore. Doesn't matter, Jack, you worked at the Globe. No, I'm sorry, you do a wrestling podcast. Nope, doesn't doesn't count. So well, Yeah, I think that's what it is. Is. It's like the pain and

shame of it all. What we put our finger on here and another folks are afraid to admit is that when you when people know you're a wrestling fan, you can be nothing else to them, right like ever ever, it's horrible Like you know, a lot of people like twelve different things, but wrestling fans can like twelve different things but have only one of them to find them. That's the problem too, is like Jack, I'm like you two where I'm so like obsessed with it. I don't watch week tweek too much,

but I just love every little thing about it. Yeah, JP, respect to you. You kind of have a personality outside of this shit. Me and Jack are We're screwed. We're done, Like it's over. At least JP, you can talk about cinematt and teach me about fucking what's his name, Eugene Gump? Right, But me and Jack, all we have to offer is how you know, in nineteen eighty six WrestleMania should have been in one location instead of this or something, you know, like we're done.

Yeah, so true. That that's part of why the Hopper is there, you know, and why we we we emphasize so much of the fun willing to pay for this ship because otherwise it would be a crime, how

much time we'd spend on it with zero recompense. Like I want to add too, you know, one of my one of my safety things is that, you know, once when they ask what the podcast is about, and I and I have to and I have to come out, you know, overcome those more nerves, by the way, than any than any production I've ever had to do in my entire life, going on stage, you know, going on stage, Jack knows going on stage for EDNA at the last

minute, nowhere near the amount of nerves that I have when I have to come and actually admit what the podcast is about. But but the first thing I do is I immediately talk about Jack being I go, well, my co host, you know, my best friend from college, and and and you know who's valedictorian. Oh yeah, exactly, Yeah, yeah, he's a real person, I swear, yeah, right, intelligence exactly exactly.

Yes, it's like, let me do as much as I cans for the Herald, Like you know, he's gonna all you know, he's he's he's a legit person. He's not like a goof. It's like, no, but I asked you what your podcast is for me. I know we got to move on so we won't spend so much time on it. But I have the whole thing ready to my head where I've like pre planned at this point, I know what to expect, right, I know the reaction they're

gonna give. I know everything that's gonna happen. I would ever be playing like yeah, so you know, when I was a kid, I always liked wrestling, and I just I just admit, I'm like I never really grew out of it, and I just ended up with a YouTube channel and it's just yeah, and it's like, oh, oh that's great, So you're really you're really the worst sorry, the worstest one. They want to see it though. That's that's the worst problem. I don't know if it's

happened to you, guys, but maybe because it's videos is different. I've had people like literally pull up the video in front of me and I'm just there, like, what what are we doing here? Guys? Why you're gonna understand this? You don't know what the what is going on? I don't want to hear my voice? What are we doing? I? Oh, no, it's really cool, it's really cool. Yeah, really proud of you? No you're not? No? No? Oh oh? Is that right? Well? How about you agree to record what you say about

me when I leave the room? Right, let me leave see you here and let's see let's see what's really going on. Yeah, well, I'm glad you're a fellow passenger on this journey of shame and paying going on ten years here at TLF and yes, long, so what makes your community stronger?

Right interrupts. Right, That's what I love about this community is it's the best community because we are not afraid to admit that this ship does not matter and it's not real, well exactly, and that it's it's and that we haven't ever lost sight of the fact that it marginalizes us to like it this much. It's not you. You can't get so serious about wrestling that it becomes respectable. It just gets it gets less respectable the more into it you get. Yes, so thank you for that and we stand on that

business and PAV great to have you. So two thousand and eight Royal Rumble tell us why Yeah, so all right, JP, wasn't that bad? Come on, man, it can't be that bad. You should be happy it was an MSG your former workplace. I do like I do like watching an MSG show that happens before the big renovation. And I must say I think the show was definitely like because this was one of the first shows, the first peak of you actually switched to HD as a kid. That's really

blew my mind. I'm like, damn, wrestling can look this good. And I know they went overboard after with all the LEDs and stuff, but I thought the setup for the show was really nice, really clean. But yeah, this show the rumble of wait. So the show means a lot to me, especially growing up. It was it was an end of an era. I would say, way more than Triple H and undertake your Circle jerk ever was, but I will I'll explain so I puto context. If

I start running too long, just feel free to interrupt me. But so it was more in ninety eight, which I know is probably crazy for you guys. I'm sorry, what have you listened to our show running? No? I know, but I know, but I'm on your show. I'm not trying to you know. You know what you know, I'm not trying to take a shine, And don't worry. Even if you didn't make the offer, we would cut you off if we needed to, as I deserve

yep. But anyway, So, yeah, So I was more in ninty eight, which I know you guys were in like high school at that point. But I was born an indy eight and I became a wrestling fan around three oh four. I was five six years old. And the reason I really gone to wrestling, it's kind of I think it might be fascinating for you guys to know. So I was born and I'm born, but I

became a fan after the boom, after the lapsed era. But I grew up around a lot of older cousins, and I group around a lot of like older kids on my street and they were still wrestling fans, like in a three or four. I'm sure it was not cool for you guys to be wrestling fans and Eedmerson anymore. But if you're still like twelve thirteen, it was still kind of edgy. It was still the fumes of the Attitude era. So I really just became a wrestling fan because all the older cool

kids without were cool were into it. And I became a wrestling fan because I wanted to like what they liked. And the other thing they really liked was hip hop. And you know, that's how they dressed, that's how they talked, that's what they're into. And I think you guys see what was kind of going. Became a wrestling fan, became a hip hop head.

I see my boy John Cena, and it was just like, yo, this is my guy, this is my Hull Kogan, and it's it's interesting because you Jack wrote an article in O four for the Boston Globe about how hip hop finally wrestling final is a hip hop gimmick that's not totally cringe and it might actually, you know, do something. Yeah. I was literally that kid, because I don't think I would have been as big give a wrestling fan because when I watched Triple h and a suit wasn't cool to

me. Chrispin wa the serial killer wasn't cool to me, right, But I had a guy where I'm like, if this guy walked up on my neighborhood, he would be a cool guy, Like I would want to like meet him. Right. The only people that were cool were like Eddie Guerrero and John Cena. Like, I wasn't gonna be an Undertaker dead Cowboy fan. So it really just put me into the universe and I was like, holy shit, this is a cool guy. This is like my fifty cent

of wrestling. So I just became a huge fan wrestling at twenty. I begged my mom to order it. She didn't, so I ordered it anyway, and then I got beat up for that. But you know, just and the best part was that was the opening match and you guys were there. That was opening match, and my mom found out and only let me watched the opening match, right, So whatever I was down, I saw my boy Sena. When Sina got stabbed later that year by Jesus, I

cried, I didn't want to go to school because he got stabbed. Apparently when he won the side of wrestling. It's twenty one, I found on SmackDown Jumping for joy. I was so into it that I took my dad, who doesn't even speak English, she only speaks Punjabi, which is probably the only reason he let me. You know, he took me to buy seen his album the first day it came out. That's amazing, wow. And I was just I was so happy because the cover was like the belt,

the spinner belt. I treated the case of the CD like it was the real championship be I'll just walk around on my waist like, hey, I'm the champion who. I was just super into it. And as the years went on, well, go to O seven, I was still a fan. And I must say, though, you guys always talk about this because apparently you guys know everything. Even as a kid. Though, I must say, as the years went on, though, I did notice he

wasn't a rapper anymore, and it did hurt me. And it's funny because you guys noticed it, and I was like six seven, and even I was noticing it because in June, I'm buying this guy's album and then by wrestling, it's twenty two. He's just hustled, little to respect. But he was still my guy, but the magic was kind of gone. But yeah, the years went on, I was still a fan. No Mercy O seven comes and it was supposed to be Randy Ordon versus Seni for the

Last man Standing match for the w title. I beg my mom to order it because when you're a kid, you know when a match is a gimmick match, blood, there's gonna be violence, and you will actually see something that you wouldn't see on RAW. My mom ordered it for me. I don't know if you guys remember, but that ends up being the show where Sina is injured and he has to give up the title. Yeah. Yes, And I didn't know that going in because I was kind of like,

I grew up in a householdhre. I didn't have Internet until like nine or like oh wait, basically all my friends weren't really into wrestling that much by that era. So I ordered the show and I'm all excited, and it's like Sina's not even here. His dad like tores Rotator cuff and it was pretty heartbreaking. And on the Tuesday because he tore it that Monday. Yeah, and he announced it on e c W. Who the fuck watches EC

do? They did that because they didn't have a live show between No of course, yeah, of course, No, that's what I'm saying as a kid. Though for me, I wasn't gonna watch ecw right, so I just didn't know it was my fault, and I told my mom, like, I don't want to watch this scene was not even here, and it just hurt because I was already kind of like falling out of love because he

wasn't the same guy anymore, and now he's not here. I was like, ah, man, it was changing, and then suddenly Batistell's like, hey, the Batista guys beating Undertaker's ass. He's a little cooler than this guy. But it just hurt. I guess the best example of like Jack, I mean JP, imagine you're working of the Ring ninety three and holding like breaks his leg and you found out the pre show. You would be horribly horrible. You'd be depressed. Listen. It was bad enough when he

lost to Yokozuna. He wasn't even injured. Yeah, at least he at least he showed up and lost. Right, my guy just got ar killed on a table and never seen him for like four months. That's amazing. And you mentioned that thing about, you know, Seena's identity slipping. I'm sure I've told this story too over the years on TLF. But I remember

one time I went to a show with the Garden and Boston. I was taking the train home and I could tell that people were like anti scene, and I was trying to get like a sense like why what was it about? You know, the scene? And they were saying like things like he's a wanna be and you know, basically you know the thing someone would say

about eminem in like nineteen ninety nine or something. And I was like, dude, like that character's gone, Like I know you still see that when you look at him due to his outfit, but no one started hating him until he stopped leaning into that, right. Yeah. And it was just weird too because since I really got to wrestling before all my friends did because of my older cousins and everything. My friends didn't see it because they became fans in O six. They became friends when I was in grade two and

grade three. I'm like, do you think this guy is cool? He was cooler like two years ago when my brass knuckles bos boss, Can I invite you to consider a world where your childhood wrestling memories are in HD? I mean, I listen part of the part of the charm is the squiggly lines that come from the lights when they shoot up too high. You know you don't, that's true, I must say, though I was lucky enough.

We're up until the Rumble of eight. Though, I had so many shows taped, and they were all on VHS because we couldn't we weren't getting a PV or anything. So I kind of I had the little thing to where would record the tapes over and over again watch him, and that's kind of what gets the internet thing. But listen, I feel you, guys. I go back and for some reason, as a kid were in ninety

eight. My comfort zone has become watching nineteen ninety four for some reason, so I can only imagine how much better it was when it's like affect. Yeah, so, how did your dad feel about Great Collie? To me, that's that's exactly the proving of our point is that if you go back and you start watching those things, no matter what you see, it's so cozy. I love I love Hasbro. It's so cozy for some reason, you can figure out that there's something there that is just missing from from today's

product. Uh. But speaking of the Great Collie, That was a weird time because you get to realize, like I'm in Toronto, right, so I was born here, but on Punjab you speak at everything fully Punjabi, your parents fully Punjabi. But you got to realize there's such a disconnect from being Punjabi here and being like this gorilla from India. Right, it's also happens to you from a job. I couldn't relate to him because he he could rarely speak Punjabi, let alone speak English. But there was no like

it was never there. And same thing with my dad and stuff like he's like, yeah, it's cool. But even my mom to this day, like she knows obviously into rest of course, but she will roasted too, Like that guy could barely walk. What are they doing? It didn't go overwhelm in the community either, like that, Like it was cool, but they could have they could have found anyone else, They could have done anything else. It didn't. It wasn't a good look. It's amazing. It's

just so phenomenal. I mean, I just thought of it when you said that. Because he's in the rumble and he gets in the ring and they scream, you can't wrestle at him. Immediately or a guy man for a guy, it's you know what, respect though he still somehow made it work for a guy who didn't speak the language to go in front of thousands of people and have matches regardless of how they were. I respect it. But yeah, just a side note. It's weird because like Ginger Maha is from

Canada and hes Punjab. He speaks the language, like I related to more to him than I would with KLi, right, but they still did the same ship with him and made him this anti like foreign heel. It's like, dude, this guy is like a normal Canadian kid who just happens to be Punjabi. Like he just a normal guy. Why does he have to be some like weird foreign heel. But that's beside the plant he just asked.

But yeah, it's it's it's interesting what that's that's the racishm in wrestling right there, you know, like that's it's in that it's just soaked in that, in that in that blood where you know, if you if they can, if they can exploit the idea that you're from another country and make you a bad guy, they eat it up. But it's so weird because

it doesn't make any sense. It's like, wouldn't you guys make more money if you kind of made him a cool guy, because then at least us, people who are pu in job you would actually want to watch him. But it's like you take him and you make him not even like us anymore, so so why would we care? Well, that's that's not to get money from anyone at that point. That's the age old thing. It's like, you know, people aren't going to support an ethnic babyface unless he's the

world champion or contending for the world title. You know, people aren't going to get into somebody just because they happen to share an ethnicity with them, but they're relative losers on the pecking order of the given sport. You know. It's like people are not going to look at somebody as as a superhero unless, like Eddie Guerrero, they actually raise to the world title level, especially if it's in spite of you know, the plans, the outlooks limitations,

and the ceilings placed on him. That's why Eddie took off so much. And O four it was like, okay, now we have somebody who's who's Mexican, and then it actually contends to be the face of the company. But if you're you know, if you're just gonna like like like you're saying, like I'm going to sort of like reverse engineer a push based on the fact that this guy is of an ethnicity other than what they're accustomed to

having under their roof, then it's everyone. People sniff that out right away, like this person isn't going to be a long term person we can be proud of. You know, even when gender won the title, people knew the score, you know, Yeah it was the month in and I know we'll move on from it. But it's like, you're doing this so you can sell shows in India, right, maybe you guys would have sold more if you did a house show in Calgary or something because he's from Calgary.

You idiots, like no one in India isn't a care man, Like they don't care because he's not one of them, And at this point he's not one of us either anymore. So it's like, you play yourselves fascinating, So, uh, get me straight here. Did you see this show live or yeah, one hundred percent I watched it live. I I watched at my cousin's house. Yeah, that person on person my bad at my cousin's house. Yeah, no, I uh, I was at my cousin's house

the same order Coasons that got me into this. By this point, they weren't really into it, but they kind of got it for me. And yeah, just a nice little like so it gets together. I was watching it, having your great time, and yeah, I thought it was a great show. I was. Seena never even crossed my mind. I mean, it's like, hey, maybe rain Mysterio might beat the piece of shit Edge, who I still hated from six because he traumatized my childhood for the

cash. But I'm like, maybe Batista might win the rumble. I don't know, Like Scena never crossed. I genuinely thought I was gonna see that guy until June or something. Yeah, well that was the reporting, That's what I was saying. And yeah, and I guess, just to let you know. So I'm watching the Rumble Sean and Taker started. Everything's great. I thought the show was pretty solid. I'll just say this. You know how when you guys are watching like shows and you're doing your deep dive

and I think jpeople like I stood up. I'll just see this. Uh. When number thirty hit. My shirt was off, like I was attending. I was like a nine year old kid. Shirt was a off. You thought I would just scored the game winning goal in the rumble in the World Cup or something like. It was the greatest moment in my life. Did you take it off like the way Sina does where he takes it off one arm and then all of a sudden, it's like, no, I wish no, I just took it off. I just threw it. I'll

just started to scream like a primal, like genuinely primal. My aunt walked down and my mom, that's me. That makes even more embarrassing because I'm just left alone and watched by myself. That's the funny part. In the side room and by myself. My aunt walks in and say what happened? When I'm like, I'm just looking at Hi. I'm like, she just walked away. I have no idea, I don't know what to say to you. She just walked away. But it was That's what I mean.

By the end of an era, wrestling never felt like that ever again. For me, that was the moment. Damn. You know. It's it's fascinating boss to hear someone basically identified the same beats that we identified as Hasbro kids. Yep, and just those are the core memories. And here's bad acknowledging that really, no matter when that occurs for you, it kind of

doesn't get that good again. And we can argue the relative merits of the different eras and make a case that if you strip nostalgia out, it still was better on its face. But I don't know a lot of familiar rings and what he's saying, even though we're generations apart. Yeah, for sure, Sorry not the Trump, but just imagine this, Jack, I mean JP rumble ninety four, Holgan comes back. What are you doing? I

would have Are you kidding me? I would have been I'd have been screaming around like a like a like a. Your shirt would have been off. Your shirt would have been That's all I gotta say. Your shirt would have enough. I probably would have ripped my shirt off. I probably would have stood it, you know, and just screamed at the top of my lungs. My face had been beat red, my thirteen year old face beat right,

and I would have tore my shirt right off. Boss Brett Brett's in there, lugers in there, Savages in there, maybe a couple of others and then number thirty American plays. Oh no, they weren't playing music yet, but of course he's got that correction. I won't play music. That's one thing. If you're going to pick like out of an out of cannon, thing, might as well be a rumble, because then I know Boss

is going to absolutely have all the little details. I mean, you'll the master of what the Big four, right or the big five you guys always say back in the day, Yeah, back in the day. I mean I kidd me, I knew every I knew every result by heart, and I still know enough of it. I know. Yeah, listen, I don't blame you. Now there's been like forty of them, and there's two rumbles every year, so I don't blame you. But yeah, it was

just like the greatest moment. And that's what I mean by end of an era, Like wrestling never felt the same again after that, And there's been plenty of reasons why, and I've quickly explained it. But it was just primal, that's the best way I can describe it. Like game winning buzzer beaters. Something happened just the most surreal thing. Never thought it was possible, my guy who truly felt like my guy, right cause, like I said, I had friends who liked him, but like you guys weren't there

in four you know, it just it really just was perfect. And then he goes in there and he wins, and I was so happy when he got Triple H out of there. I hated even good guy Triple H back as a kid, I hated him so much. So it was just it was perfect. It was beautiful, and I'm pretty sure he was like the first idiot's appoint at the sign. So even though that's kind of sad, at least he did it. Respect the ruined everything, but whatever, because

we have to putt the sign every time now, but he won. It was amazing, and uh, Benevena, it's just I look back at that time and they instantly ruined him. The next month, he's out here catching a shot at No Way Out for some reason, because that's what that's what you do. And then he's losing at WrestleMania in a triple threat match because we you know, you know Paul has to be there, right Vince, you know your your former son has to be there. It's just it's Sina

never was the same after this. I feel like this is when he peaked in my opinion, like he was just never the same. But soon he's wearing colorful T shirts. He just I don't know. This was the last night where Seena felt like my guy. It was the last night where he had that aur to him, and I slowly just stopped being a fan. Eventually later that year, and by what I mean my end of an era. Your boy discovered the internet, heead, so you know how that happens

when you become a wrestling fan. That's never the same. Next thing, you know, I'm like, oh, Scena's overrated. This guy online said, you know, Scena sucks, and everything changed. But on this night, though he was my guy, he was the goat to me. It was it was, but after this night, it was end of an air of wrestling never hit the same. I stopped taping the shows and watching them over and over again. By wrestling at twenty four, it was like,

yeah, maybe i'll watch it. It's fine. I still watched, but it wasn't the fast. I wasn't let's say, I wasn't coming from school putting the tape of Rumble eight and playing with my figures over and over again until Rock came on after like April, you know, And a lot of it had to do with they couldn't top this and they just seen it wasn't the same I discovered the Internet. I was getting older. But yeah,

sorry for the little wrap, but on this night, it's hard. It's hard to rap, it's hard to I started to put into words how special it was and how down bad it was after this, I big that.

So imagine being able to extend that period of innocence through to about age twelve thirteen fourteen, which we were able to do because of how long it took for the Internet to become ubiquitous and for us to get in our respective homes twenty Yeah, I mean yeah, JP, you didn't know until like almost college days, right you Apparently you only did dot com and stuff, so you you had it good. I didn't know all the I didn't know all

the secrets. I didn't even know that there were like I didn't even know that there were such things as as these as He's behind the scenes dirt sheets. I thought, you do you even observe bro? No? Do you even lords of pain? Dot e? Bro? My eyes were not open. I could not observe at the time. So this is fascinating, Pav. We have here the ultimate Scena fan, right, we hear about see it being the generational guide. It makes sense, just like Hogan was to

us. But you but your line in the sand is is how they handled Awaight. Let's say Sena ghost to WrestleMania Orlando that year beats Randy Orton in a one on one match clean to win the belt no elimination chamber Shenanigans. Does you or yeah? Would you have been around longer? One hundred percent?

Because what happened at Summer Slam Batista and seen it? You're telling me if he's not champion and he's the undefeated beast and Batista's tweaking on SmackDown and they go one on one, I meet of in a Summer Slam, that's that. I think that's box office like because those were my guys, right

like smack nvers Rote six however, was literally Sena and Bautista. It was such even though a short period of time, those two really were the faces of my childhood, right, and I think they could have extended it now by nine would it have been cooked? Absolutely, because O nine it was like the one of the worst years in wrestling right in terms of quality, And that's when Sina kind of really I'm not one of those people that like to blame PG right, I'm not one of those little bringbag TV fourteen,

I don't care. But the way the product was going, the way they wanted seen it to be, it was gonna eventually come crashing down and hurt inside. But they could have I think Batista Seena for the title could have been really really special in summer Summer level A. Yeah, that's a great call. Yeah. I remember kind of being thrown together and stuff, and

it just chilled awkward. Well, that twenty one oh five it was like the last time that they well one of the last times I'm sure since it's happened, but it seemed like a twenty year drought where they said, all right, we're gonna make guys in the rumble in at Mania the way everybody knows it's supposed to happen, the way the fans just sit there waiting for it to happen every year, and we always fuck it up or come up

with some dumb shit to twist it up. And that was like it was there were two made men and that those were two horses that they could ride on both shows for years, and there's paths sitting there and being like, Okay, what that does is make you want to see them clash, and they just didn't. They just couldn't. And there's too many injuries and all all kinds of bullshit going on. But oh wait, rumble, So how did you feel about Jeff Hardy PAV because the things you were saying about,

why I've seen it connect out. I think I'm gonna get kicked off the call because JP might hear this. Oh see, that's why I'm bringing it up. Of course, listen, you guys probably seen the memes Jeff party and OWA. It was bigger than Obama. Man, this is fascinating. Like when I hear about people talk about Jeff Hardy who were young when he was, you know, a top guy in WWF his singles guy, they talk about it much the same way you just talked about Seena, some like

total like corn memory superhero, which fascinates me. To tell me about where Hardy stood for you. He of course goes against Orton for the title on this show, and his first real shot at you know, main event glory as much as Jpa's Jeff Hardy. If trust me, if Jeff Hardy was around the nineties doing that shit, JP, you would have been a huge fan. I'm sorry, you would have loved him. He was around. Mind he's doing that shit, And I couldn't say sorry by bad when he

was beefitting a Razor Ramona of squash Match. I'm sorry he didn't become a huge fan. Bad Yeah, the actual Jeff Harvey. But yeah, no, Jeff Party was always guy's not gonna believe this shit. But Jeff Hardy was like an urban legend in my childhood, Like he was almost like a myth. Like. So, so I started watching three o four right, and as you guys know, he wasn't in the company back then, but I would hear from my older cousins about, Yo, there's this guy Jeff

Hardy. He used to jump off flatterers, He used to do this shit. He used to jump off stages. It literally became an urban legend. And I swear to god, there was a rumor that Jeff Party died. That's why he wasn't in the company. Warrior, Yeah, that's that's why in three oh four and five when he wasn't there, I was like, oh, rest in peace, Jeff Party died. That's why he's on the

video games anymore. That's why he's not wrestling. He must have jumped off a stage and broke his like, I swear that was actually the rumors. And then I remember tuning into TNA one day just out of nowhere, at thought Velocity was gonna be on, and it turned out to be the first episode of TNA and I saw Jeff Hardy. I was like, this guy is alive. Holy shit. And then the face pain and the knon glow. I'm sorry JP. He he was. He was amazing. He looks

so cool. He was so different. I know it's cringey, I'll be I'm a grown up now. I get it's cringey now looking back at it. But he was just it was just different. It was just so cool. It was so unlike you know, triplet in a suit or whatever you would see on the other program. And then when he came to I loved it. I thought he was really cool. Uh he jumped listen, he jumped off stages. What more do you want? As a kid, You're gonna love that And the face pain. It's so marketable. Everybody won the

sleeves. I used to put the little like. He wasn't my number one guy, but he was definitely like top three. I would put like socks on my arms and kind of cut him, and my mom a would yell at me because I tried to make the arm sleeves. He was just that guy. It was. It's hard to really capture why. But you have a guy who looks cool as shit doing weird dance moves on the stage. He has piro, he has an entrance with purple lighting, and he jumps

off. Shit. I can't that's all you need. I can totally understand where you're coming from, except for the fact that he he looked like an idiot and he fucking sucked and he uh the only wait, the only problem with the pyro was that it didn't go into his face and burn him. Ang it did one time. It did, it actually did. That's the crazy not enough. And the fact that he when he jumps off those stupid things, risking his life for no reason, was that he didn't actually you

know, kill himself. So then a hot dog, right, yeah, it was it was Boss was a bid for immortality and I'm listening to pav and I think it worked. It did. Listen, it's it's tragic the fact that you have to do it in the first place. I get it. I'm growing up, I get it. But it was just a different time and at that point it just worked. Everybody was a Jeff Hardy fan. People. It was him like, I mean, at least this you respect ri mysterial, right, JP, Sure, totally. Yeah. He

makes me believe you respect your masterial as the kids too. But once once Jeff Hardy came in, it was just like this was the next evolution. Obviously he wasn't doing the crazy, high flying tanning, but it was just it was a stun show era and that's what people want to see. We wanted to, you know, you guys had your stuff in the attitude or we just kind of wanted some of that magic too. He he just didn't. The thing is is that I could believe Raymisterios. Raymisterio has always made

me believe that that what he's doing makes sense. I can I can forgive that and all the flippy floppy shit. The problem is Jeff Hardy, I don't believe any of his shit. Could actually hurt anybody. Yeah, no, listen, that's fair. Listen if you're talking to me right now, twenty five year old pav I agree, ten year old Pave, though, I'm sorry, but play the theme song. Get the purple lighting out. We're gonna dance like weirds on the stage. I'm sorry, yeah song.

Some see the writing on the wall. Yeah, you know what, you know, he's just the problem is he was always just modest. Is that to the bottom, to the bottom, he was to the bottom. Let me just quickly say this. It is funny though, because you guys talking about this, I'm hyping up Jeff Hardy. But mind you when you and you also mentioned the ages thirteen or fourteen later, I was thirteen, I

think when the Victory Road incident happened and I was watching it live. So if you ever, uh, you know, the whole never meet your heroes apparently actually even watch my heroes, because well, I can't that that happened, seas that the Oscars tonight naked. I don't know if you guys saw that yet, So I saw the twitter. Apparently you shouldn't meet your heels, don't watch your heros, just don't watch wrestling. Yeah, that's that's

that's definitely the that's the that's the moral of everything. The whole Lopstan podcasts don't watch wrestling. Well, what's un settling about it is you realize that the way these guys achieve immortality is to go into areas that permanently scar them psychologically and physically, and you know, just to stick to a playbook that

keeps them together really is boring, and so they end up. You know, it's like, you're not going to get someone that does the things Jeff Hardy does without the flip side of that coin, which is intense risk taking and borderline behavior outside the ring as well. No, for sure. I mean it's like you guys said, you're not going to get people to wrestle without having something wrong with them. The history. You're not You're not a

normal person to want to be a wrestler. There's something missing, you need something you like it's it's you're not normal. Yeah, yeah, there's something. There's something about you that society doesn't permission that the lifestyle of the pro wrestler allows you to continue. I mean we've always seen it, right, even back in tough enough days or even Now. I don't know if you have seen the OBW show, but just look at the people who want to do this, right. I'm not trying to be mean, but a lot

of them don't have much going for them. But this seems to be like, you know, this is this is my shot. It's like the bigger, faster, stronger, this is my shot. You know, I'm to help do this. I can, I can maybe make some money. I have a look, you know, I have charisma, I can I can could have prompe. But it's like that's that's that's that's kind of the mo of wrestling all around. It's like you always it attracts these people who don't

know what to do with themselves. Yeah, but they know they know they once got praised for looking ripped, you know. And I get so addicted to someone saying they're in good shape one time that they absolutely run as fast as they can toward any profession that lets them just prioritize being in shape first and foremost. And you know, of course a lot now it's been a

total turnover in the industry. To word, just about everybody of any prominence in the industry grew up an absolute obsessive fan of the thing, and so you also have that reaching for that, that that sort of a reaction that you saw your heroes get on television, and now you're you can't believe you're in the position to maybe get that out of people too, and that just you'll never that'll never be satiated, and you'll take yourself to you know,

physical limits that are just completely unreasonable, trying to be worthy of the reactions of the fans that you remember having towards your well in PAVs case John Cenas and Jeff Hardy. So yeah, again, always so fruitful when a member of the Solar System via the hopper can put an era in front of us that we would never voluntarily pull up. But there's so much, always,

so much meat on the bone to this very thing. That is what unites us all is the experience across the generations of being a wrestling fan that hasn't changed. No matter how much the nature of the business has changed, and and how to watch it has changed and how to receive it has changed, what doesn't change is how everyone else feels about you for liking wrestling, and that's that's where you get the nods from a twenty five year old just as

quickly as you do from a sixty one year old. And that's, of course what the podcast is about. So anything else on the two thousand and eight Royal Rumble Path, please the floor is yours. No, nothing really. I hope you guys found some enjoyment from here, So I can't wait to listen to the podcasting here. How you guys felt Belgium or something. You're in a different country, so I can't wait to hear about that. Yeah, no, I can't wait. Yeah, I can't wait to listen

to what. I'm happy I won, you know, never feel happy to be a loser. The only thing I do want to say about this is one, everybody buy your tickets for Philadelphia. It's not that hard man do the damn thing. Second, I want to just give a little shouts under

the cinemat. I feel like a lot of people don't know how special that show is, Like Eugene Gump is my hero and how thanks to JP and I know, but for real, like jokes, I'm not trying to kiss your ass or whatever, but I really respect how over the years, like Jack, you always kind of carry the front on the laps fan with his research, the story telling, and as someone who's been I think a Patreonic

apiece like twenty twenty one, and I've listened to like every cinemat. I've learned so much from it and I really respect JP, how like you really grew as a host and kind of like telling the stories and the research and everything from One thing that's really ingrained in my brain is scream telling the story of like he Weinstein and stuff. You really crush it. You're amazing at it, and I think it's really undervalued in the Grand Smen things. So

some people might just listen to this on Spotify or whatever. They don't know. And I know you guys advertise it, but trust me, I can vouch for it. I low key might even like Under the Cinemat more than the main show. And that's not a dig. It's just it's unlike anything. And you got to realize these Jack and JP, they have the same

humor as us listeners. Just imagine it when it comes to movies, and there's so much out there, so much you will learn, and there's so much stuff that I pass on to my friends and family because everyone loves movies, right, So I just want to give a shout out to the cinemat. It's a great thing. Definitely check it out, appreciate that. Really do well. JP. You know you should just when people ask you what your podcast is about, unlike me, you can just say it's about movies.

Yeah, I get into that. Sometimes they just say sports and entertainment. Just follow that. That really clears that doesn't beg any follow ups at all. Let me just let me just let ex likely say this. I have done that before. I'm like, yeah, I just make videos on sports. Yeah, what sporting sports? Entertainment based sports? Say that sports of aspecious nature? Have you ever heard of predetermined sports? Have you ever? Have you ever heard of fake wrestlings there? Yeah, because honestly,

if you say wrestling, they might think amateur wrestling. We can't have that either. I'm waiting for the day where someone's like, yeah, I went for the day it runs like a Jim Ross or somethings like yeah, you know, how about them that sooner? How about the you know double leg? You no, no, sir, I'm talking about fake wrestling. Oh my god. Yeah. Yeah. If you if you're out in Iowa and you say you're doing a podcast, and it's about wrestling. They might not

necessarily think it's pro wrestling. It's true. You got to keep that in mind, where kids grow up wrestling at age three and stuff. It's died in the wold. Well, there's been terrific. We want to thank you, Pav. Glad we could close this loop here and get you the the the promise Glad we drew your name and that you can get a little flavor and and help influence the show because it is about the listeners. Really, I mean, that's that's that's a shoot. So thanks very much for sure.

And last thing, I'll quickly get your bids in. This was literally proof that no matter how much you bid or what you do, you might actually win. Because I never thought I would, but hey, this is literally proof. Get your bids and whenever it's open and you never know. Wonderful. Thanks man. So there you have at lum Sum boss John Seena perspective that I don't know. I know it's out there, but to hear someone passionately recounted as something else, I mean, we can't all listen.

I'm actually okay with the John Seena perspective. I'm not okay with the Jeff Hardy perspective. But you're right, we got what that was clear, But I just I mean, but this is this is wrestling, right, Like, what is he What does pav have? Now? He has John Cena wearing a three piece suit every where he goes for no discernible reason, like you said, and I'm the Oscars though, because he's fucking he was taken

on stage unless he has something to sell that's offbeat. You know, given his druthers, he's going to wear a three piece suit every waking hour of his life. Yes, he goes to bed in a three piece like pajama suit. And think of how he wrestled. This is around the time two thousand and eight when the Institute of the Dress Code and famously Undertaker and Sena were exempt because their gimmicks didn't really make sense to be wearing suits on the

road and in between towns and stuff. It's like, are you fucking kidding me? And he's the guy that can't take a suit off of his back for ten seconds. Now to maybe he felt left out and so now he's like making up for lost time. I think there's something to be said for that that he had to run around like a like a teenager from nineteen ninety eight for like twenty five years on television that he still does for God's sake.

Yeah, well when he comes back, that's the look, right, because it's now that look is now less about the era that it happened in and it's more about the caricature that is John Cena. Like. But I see that look, I just think John Cena. I don't think a particular year or nope, I think of a goofball, a goofball who makes a surprise entrance at number thirty in the Royal Rumble on this particular year getting a huge pop from MSG but apropos for two thousand and eight Sena and most have

seen his run post you know, hardcore rap character. As soon as he gets in the ring, they start booing like crazy yep, because he starts doing his punches and yeah, all that stuff. It's such a it's such a crystal clear sort of like exhibit of the duality of the way the fans felt about John Cena at the time this particular show, because they couldn't see

more happy to see the guy as a surprise entrant. They couldn't be more ghassed to see him there in the flesh, and then as soon as he starts mixing it up, it's like he's the last person in the world I want to see doing well. It's been so funny, and it's so funny. How how that's all gone now too, that he's a oh yeah, part time or movie star. Totally. They fucking eat the shit out of his hand now. All along all they wanted was less yep, not different,

just less right, right right, always the case. And we'll be insterrupting a bit of it later. But he's since done an extended interview with Chris van Vliet in which he talked about a time when they talked about turning him heel in the twenty twelve Rock series. He actually recorded a heel theme song, Wow, no shit. He had a wardrobe ready to go for what his heel character will look like, a singlet with a boxing style robe. The track kind of bangs. I listened to it. It's pretty good.

It's sort of like a it's just back to like that hard charging, bloodthirsty John Cena voice. That's wild so singlet, that's what he said. They didn't show a picture of it, but that's what he said. It was going to look like, God help us. It's dirty. Yeah, it definitely makes you feel uncomfortable if nothing else. But this is this is a sena you know who's right there on the on the line. You're you're gonna turn a heel or not You're gonna be a guy who's always going to

be a perennial superhero. Show down our mouth, babyface so the merch keeps moving. Or are you gonna be somebody that the fans can be confident they can sway and move kind of like Rock. You know, he comes back this year conquering hero. He thinks people can be more gassed for the in his mind, the head of the Table storyline, And within weeks he's got a pivot because he's not going to be that guy fighting the crowd every week.

No no, no, no, no way, no way. And I give him credit for being that smart for sure, although I don't know if I give him credit for his his now skincare line. Well, that's not going to stop. I know, too many, too many opportunities,

too many zoom meetings, too many PowerPoint slide decks. Although I might have to you know, my as I was I was sending you that photo that that screenshot of him fucking cleaning himself on Instagram, And I was with my daughter and she was like, she's so into skincare right now that she was like, oh my god, you have to get that. And I'm like, oh my god, was it meant for your eyes? Your eyes? That's such like a tired play, like women love it, but guys love

it too. I love it too. Stop stop stop trying. Stop trying to hide the fact that you've penetrated your your addressable market, and I have to come up with like foolish reasons to sell it to people that don't want it. Get it. I'm gonna have to get it now because have fun. Let let me know. I want to review. I'll let you know. So PAV wasn't the only person that looks back on the two thousand and eight Royal rumble and has has a story to tell. Dalton wrote us as

well. He said, dearest co chairs, Oh, what's that Dalton Castle. No, I'm comfortable saying no. I don't want to say the last name, but it's not Dalton Castle, so it is to not create any concern. Actually, why don't you pass along the yeah, the sentiments here if you can, all right, dearest code chairs, Oh we just went

away there. It is listening to the Hull Cogan nineteen eighty four episode, and I heard you'll be doing the Royal Rumble two thousand and eight to show I've yet to fully watch, but remember very well for a few reasons. This story goes back a few months but leads into the Rumble show. By October two thousand and seven, I was twelve years old and was in seventh grade. My mom and father were going through a divorce, and one of the things I would try to do to get my mind away from that was

watching SmackDown as it was still on the CW. I remember watching highlights of when John Cena tore his peck and kept thinking was he still champ? As this was during his one year title reign. I found out quickly that it was Randy Orton, then Triple H, then Norton again who were the champs? As the months went on, I mostly focused on the SmackDown side since

we could only afford local television. Plus, I was a huge Undertaker fan and watched his story with Edge and Batista going after the World heavyweight title. A few days after the RUMBLEO eight. I remember going on my school's computer and going to WWE dot com to see who won the rumble, and when I saw John Cena pointing at the sign, I was in utter shock.

I still remember the announcements on SmackDown were Vince McMahon. No, I remember the announcements on vinc on SmackDown were Vin sick Man was saying how John Cena would be out of action for six to twelve months. Actually on ECW Interestingly enough, we'll get to that. Yeah, I shouldn't really be surprised over sixteen years later that it was Sena that one, but at the time it

was still shocking knowing he came back so quick from that injury. The poppy gets when his music starts might have been one of the best Sena pops he's ever gotten. Thank you guys for reading the email, and thank you for Jolka Mania and Sina Mania. So why was it such a surprise to people, such a mind blowing twist that John Cena showed up in this royal Rumble? Well, as mentioned, started on October first of two thousand and seven. Yeah, it's an episode of Ron. He was wrestling mister Kennedy.

I have to think this is one of the earliest examples of where someone that's a big time deal gets hurt working in the ring with mister Kennedy, whether or not it's his fault, and that ultimately being his downfall at WWE. It usually isn't it usually mister Kennedy who gets injured too. Sounds kind of

weird. Yeah, well he tore his Yeah he did. He He ended up losing the money in the bank opportunity from the wrestling any of the year before because he tore his tricep award at something like that is labor him, I forget what it was. And then so they rushed to get the briefcase off him, him being the first briefcase holder, not the first, but him being the one where it's like, okay, this means you're going to actually win the belt. You know it's been established right when you cash in.

This is like a thing. So but they rushed the briefcase off of them, get it to edge because they thought he have to be out for months and months, And then upon further examination, it turned out the injury was not as bad as they thought, and they fucked the whole thing. Up for no reason, which which hurts even more, and so he never really got back on that track where he was red hot. I mean we talked about this during TNH. You needed mister Kennedy. Oh yes, I

thought he was. You know, I was not a huge fan of his. I was not a believer until that fucking money WrestleMania promo after he won money in the bank in the year before you know all this, and it was like, I was there. We were there live in Detroit, in Distois, and I remember just losing my shit over this guy who I I was not really impressed with for the most part, but he gave such a

direct and killer promo. I was like, oh my god, this guy, this guy's a fucking star, fiery, fiery exactly, somebody who was screaming with conviction because you felt as a fan that the WWE was behind him, because he had reason to carry himself with that confidence, and then getting the marks against him for people getting hurt in his matches led him losing that

confidence, and of course that's death for a pro wrestler. If you can't if you're second guessing yourself, and if you can't let what you want to

do instinctually be what you come to be known for. It's death. You can't act, can't do it. So this was kind of the beginning of that unraveling October first, two thousand and seventies, working John Cena, who was long reigning ww champion, had won the belt in the spring of two thousand and five and hadn't lost it defending against all comers and pushing against that tide of people sort of rejecting him for his kind of you know, kind

of awkward in ring style is awkward physicality. He just didn't look like a guy that looked like he was really kicking ass when the bell sounded, right, and people kind of got sick of that. So anyway, despite you know, moving so much merchandise that it had been fucking corporate malpractice to take the belt off of him and to find him down or even to turn him

heel, you know, obviously that was the argument against it. So it was this very strange thing where people were rejecting him, but nobody else made sense in that spot to the degree he did even though he was being rejected for the presentation. So that was sort of the defining story of the WWE from the mid two thousands to the end of the two thousands through two thousand

fourteen really fifteen. So here he is and it's a spot where scene does the hiptoss and you know it does the hiptos and he lands on his ass. Yes, so he did that, but it looked like he kind of kept his arms stuck under Kennedy's for a beat too long and it kind of stretched out as Kennedy's body went flying without without a release valve, and it tore the pack. Just the same injury that Cody Rhodes was able to ride to huge fucking drama a couple of years ago. Right, Yeah, I

think about it. It's remarkable that these two huge moments, Cody recovering coming back winning the Brumble and Sina recovering coming back and winning the Rumble exactly are these torn peck things. And you know from Cody, he suffered the injury at Hell in the Cell in June and didn't come back till January. Here Sina suffering the injury in October and he's back in January. That's unbelievable. And this is after as it's been mentioned by Pav and you and so many

others. They went on television and told the fans not to expect to see John Cena until the summer of two thousand and eight. So you're thinking, no WrestleMania, the last thing you're thinking is rumble. Yeah, exactly exactly. I would, Yeah, I would. The brumble was like, was not even not even a thought. I'm just like, they're not going to have Seena at all for you know, you know, for a year, which you know, I don't. I wouldn't say I was heartbroken, but

I definitely wasn't happy. I'd rather see Triple H out for a year. Oh yeah, yeah, that would be much better for him than it was for Sena. Yeah. Yeah, as we saw when he came back in two thousand and two and the hottest point of his career after his injury. And then, I mean, it's it's a sad state of affairs, but some of the most resonant stuff in wrestling in the past twenty years has been when guys come back from injuries. Yeah, yeah, right, you need

to have an injury to come back from an injury. It's and have that moment. And he won the rumble in his in his case recovering from the torn quad in the two thousand and two rumble in the same building MSG. So it was. It was. It was quite a turn of events that led to see a re emerging before anybody expected him to. He tore in the pack he finished the match. He did like this STF where he could only use the STFU where he could only use like one hand. So it

looked it looked bad. Yeah, I'm I'm a little I was. I was gonna tell you, I there are a lot of things on this show that had me a little a little jarred, all right, Like theme music for certain people was very jarring to me because it wasn't yet what you know, the familiar stuff. Uh, And Randy Orton is still coming out to hey, nothing you can say. It's one of the things, like I thought he was. I thought that was gone by this point. I thought

I thought it was well gone. I mean, I don't even know what Cody's theme song was when he came out. It's very uncomfortable. How far away two thousand and eight really was. Oh no, the Missess theme song. I didn't recognize it at all. This is very much pre I came to play. And the fact that Sina was they was they still called his move the fu they did. I was like, I thought we were gone.

I thought that was like a year after he a year after he he, you know, won the title, it was changed to attitude adjustment. I was very uncomfortable. I was like shocked that Piper and Snooko were in this Rumble. Oh my god, I know they they came back around nine and ten two and you know they had the matter with Jericho or that wrestled me and me along with Steamboat. Yep, but no, there was just

something like, wait a minute. I was seeing these guys come out and I was associating an era five six years after they started bringing back the old guys. I thought that was like a two thousand and four to five three thing. And here in two thousand and eight, here they are, and Dugan is in the in the soup. He's on the show, but he was in a qualifying match for the Rumble. So bizarre. It's so bizarre, and Foley made it come back. I totally forgot about this run.

Not only that, but he's in the fucking he's in the match for a long time, sure is. And he would go on to try out SmackDown announcing and quit an absolute frustration at the micromanaging events on the headset. Wow, this was Ada had a few more deals, a few more matches left on the deal in two thousand and eight, and I thought he would try acting and things. So he was in a weird place in his career at

the time. But so yeah, Sena suffers the injury, guts out, the match finishes at you can see him sitting down after the bell gets around, and he's just like screaming at the raft. Is Randy comming? Is Randy comming? Because he's like an absolute agony. I can tell he can't lift his arm. It's not sure what it is. At first people thought it was just a shoulder injury, but then when it became clear was a pectoral tear, it's like, oh my god, this is gonna take forever

to heal. So Orton comes out as planned, because this was the go home raw for No Mercy two thousand and seven, which was to feature Sena versus Orton in a last man standing match for seen his WW championship, So there was a lot of plans in motion that this kind of threw off. So as planned, Orton comes out and beats the shit out of Sina as the go home angle, and I think he rkaos him on the table and gets in his face and does like a ten count sort of telegraphing that he

can do this to him at theay per view and win the belt. And scene is just fucking miserable all the time, dealing with the fact that he can't lift his arm, and so they shoot that angle and then they end up just using that as the pretense for why he was hurt, you know, as if Orton heard him, not a botched hip toss and a match with Kennedy yep. So they realized after the show, of course, that this is not going to be our main event at the pay per view.

And this is a funny thing. I remember this too when the title came off with somebody and then Jericho came back and won it at Cyber Sunday, And remember that time period and I go seven or so, I forget what them. Yeah, the injury was that caused the opening. I think it was Batista, Yeah, ripping something off the bone, whatever the hell it

was, and it was it was like a huge at the time. They were still running you know, cable pay per view, the traditional pay per view was still the main revenue stream, no streaming, no you know, for a flat fee a month you get every show, none of that shit. So they still month to month, had to convince you to get into

a match and buy it. And so people watch the pay per view by rate story closely, and we had a very good idea of like what was drawing and what wasn't as a result of that, and so when that happened, and there was this mystery on the week of the show, which seems like a disaster as to who they would even put in the title match. The fact that no one knew who was going to win the championship, but

someone was going to leave with the belt. It led to a huge increase in buys for a show that wasn't one of the Big four or five. And it turns out that's a huge hook in WWE. It's like, if you have an injury that compromises your champion, you at least can know that you're going to do good business on the pay per view where you side yep, it's guaranteed. You know that something that it wasn't in the plans was going to happen, and that's people are interested in that. People are very

very I mean I was interested in that. I didn't I don't think I got the show, but I was very interested in that. It's like the last bastion of like, didn't didn't you and I watch? Didn't we watch the Survivors stories together? This is the one he faced Sean Michaels right in Orton? Uh in seven sounds right? And and he sells the super kick like a fucking champ. Oh yeah he does. And uh but I think we watched that together. I feel like we did. I could be wrong,

but interesting. I don't quite know where I don't know. So so they have this situation where people know whatever is going to happen at No Mercy is actually going to be something that they didn't plan on, and it's sort of this air of unpredictability, which is still like that last bastion of unpredictability Left and Wrestling, Yeah, where you know that the planners, the bookers,

the bosses don't have any control over the situation either. And they ended up doing a thing where Triple H, who is going to wrestle a Maga on the show, ends up going three stages. He beats Orton for the belt, beats a maga and then loses the belt back to Orton on the

same show, right right, plugging him into that position. And so Sina goes off to have his surgery and it's back when they had live Monday Raw, then they would do with live ECW on Sci Fi on Tuesday night, Oh my God, and that would be live from the site of the SmackDown taping. So the SmackDown, though it air on Friday night, was taped

on Tuesday. So Tuesday was their only chance to go live with as much time as they could, to give the fans as much time as possible to you know, adjust to the fact that Sina wasn't going to be on the show, and in fact that his very long title reign. I think it was the longest since Hogan was over. And so even though it sounds so weird to have Vince McMahon go out in the ECW show to make this announcement, it was simply the last chance they had to get in front of a

live television mass audience to they could have inserted in the speckdown. But then you're waiting three days for no reason to tell people. So they tell people and this is what Vince McMahon says when he hits the ring the night after Sina tears his peck in October two thousand and seven, before night, I've come before you tonight with bad news. On Monday Night, rob WWA champion John Ceno suffered a debilitating injury, requiring immediate surgery to repair all completely torn

right pectoral muscle. You might ask yourself, how did this happen? Who is responsible? Let's go back to raw. As a result of this injury, surgeons have informed us that mister Ceno will be out of action anywhere from six months to a year. A year, they said, Therefore, it is my duty, is w w E jery anyway you inform a worldwide television audience and to inform each and every one of you that has of this moment. John Cena is no longer w w E champion. He waits, He

waits to see if a chance will developer someone. The championship is now vacant. However, this to be rectified. The championship will not be vacant for very long. This sun, do you know, Mercy, there will be a w w A Championship match, and what you will declare a new w W A champion, therefore ensuring they're no mercy. This Sunday history will be made. Pretty dejected Vince making the announcement. This is the post getting his hair shaved at WrestleMania twenty three chance too, No, yeah, right,

exactly. The hair is growing in with the part he's got that weird Yeah, it's that weird, very very short hair. Yeah, yeah, I remember. So there's the announcement and SNA goes under the knife utter Doctor James Andrews out a Birmingham, Alabama who's cut on most of the big Superstars and WW over the years. I wonder if he ever like, thanks, you know, Vince McMahon for all the injuries, doctor Jim. That's been a

wonderful uh, I mean the pipeline of business for him. He probably he he has probably bought like fifteen boats because of the amount of surgeries he's had to do for WB superstars. And if you think about it, like some of these injuries, if not correctly repaired, would be career ending. Yep.

So he's also given Vince some racehorses to ride a little longer, right, and think about the millions Jim Andrews has allowed them to make off the backs of these guys going at you know, giving new life to guys like Austin and Edge with the fucking next next fusion surgeries? Are you kidding you? Yep? I mean think about Austin no longer contributing after like two thousand, Like you're kidding me. I mean, honestly, I was. I kind of half believed it. I was at that at that stage. Yep.

So Sina gets the surgery and again they're out there on their own television saying up to a year. So the fan can be forgiven for not expecting Johnsen at the Royal Rumble to summit at least is it? I mean, I assume you're going to get into it. But is it a complete work? No? I mean he has a surgery, of course not he has the injury, but like, is the is the ret a complete work? Or did he just really kick ass at recovery? And did he you know,

are his genetics just absurdly amazing at healing? In another moment of lap serendipity, this show is picked out of the clear blue sky by a member of the Solar system in terms of the hopper. At the same time that seenas sits down for the aforementioned interview with Chris van Vliet, where he talks about this very thing in more detail than I can remember him talking about it anywhere else. So here is the exact answer to your question. It's something

we're pretty good at here at TOLF exactly. So I completely respect James Andrews who did the surgery, and Kevin Welkin who did help me with physical therapy. They have to put a realistic timeline on their work, and that timeline is based on the construct that you do physical therapy three times a week. On their work, I would do physical therapy three times a day, and I moved to Birmingham and my goal as a professional was to get back on the field in a safe manner. So because I just did a lot six

days a week, you heal. You know, I was pretty much put in a heel tank. I didn't have to go back. The reason they say six months for a peck tear because a lot of people that tear their pecks maybe they did it during recreational sport, or maybe they're a student athlete, or they have other responsibilities. He's got families or whatever. You have to split time I was like a physical therapy terminator. Show up for the morning session, go get some food, show up for the noon session,

Go get some food. Show up for the afternoon session as they're closing. All right, guys see in a few hours. And I just did that for three months and everyone Doctor Andrews was fine, Kevin was fine. I passed all my tests, and I passed it like two and a half months in and the rumble was coming up and they're like, okay, we'll keep it a secret. I don't want to advertise you because I don't even know

if you're going to be there. But then when everybody gave the okay, they're like, we really, we really have the chance to keep something secret. And it was only let out to like a few people. And if you see the like once again, we only remember the moments. Tell me anything I did in that, you're one bingo. But the action to win was very simple. I remember that. Everybody remembers that because and the look on Triple Ah's face. Yes, the action was very simple because it was

as it happens. We couldn't really plan anything crazy because we didn't want people to tell people, to tell people to spoil the surprise. So it was like, he's coming out, He's gonna win, that's happening now. Oh so it was great. What does that mean the other twenty nine people in the match thought somebody else was gonna win? Uh I didn't even Yes, I think so wow. Yeah. I mean I came up to the gorilla position at number thirty when like twenty eight came out, and I've been not

like WHOA. Usually they'll like nowadays, they'll kind of hide guys off site or in a bus or something. I was in like a broom closet at the garden and just came up to tourly ramping, walked right into a full gear like ready to go, and we just knew that it was going to be remedial and basic, but we were hedging on the surprise. They're not going to really grade the art, and plus if we keep it basic, we don't really test this out. So that gives me another month and a

half to build and heal and we're fine. So it was all for the good of the moment. You satisfied with that answer, I mean that's uh, well, what what I'm really I'm satisfied with that answer, but I'm not satisfied with is the fact that he sounds like he's he's put himself in a closet and doesn't want anyone else to hear that he's doing this interview. Well it might be true. Maybe. Yeah, he's got that sort of like this is my this voice. You know, he's like a voiceover actor.

He's got all the voice. I'm going to sit here and I'm going to tell you exactly what happened. You see, I was on the toilet as i am right now, and all of a sudden, I said, you know what, I'm going to tear my back and then I'm going to glue it back on with with gorilla glue, and we'll see what happens. Do you want to call it gorilla glue? I don't care what you call it. Would I be surprised in thirty years to hear someone say that Seene

actually got his hands on some highly experimental healing accelerators. No oh no, yeah, he's trying about you're talking about that kind of shit too. Absolutely, listen, listen. If if if you were standing next to Sena In in the fall of two thousand and seven, you know, would you see needle marks? Absolutely would you see needle moving, would you You might see them moving in the wrong direction, but you definitely see you definitely see that

he had some some some pokage going on. That's you're trying to discredit his hard work, and I won't stand for it. Hey, hey, you know what, Listen, even when you needle yourself, you can have hard work. Yeah. In fact, the whole point of it is it allows you to work three times harder than nature would allow. But yeah, it's that's where he did. He just moved in. I'm I'd love to hear James Andrews tell the story of seeing him in the office three times a week

and where did he go to eat? And that's what I need to know. These are exactly I don't want to know. I want to know what Mongolian barbecue, Yes, Mongolian barbecue. You know, maybe on Fridays he'd you know, he'd splurge and get a burger someplace and some you know, some Alabama dive or whatever, right because he doesn't have to really worry about

his gut so much yet not yet. So yeah, I mean that that's what he said he did, and I was grateful that the interview came out when it did, so shout outs to Chris van Vliet, who I know knows of the show, for posting that and uh and getting that interview in because it helps this this mission quite a bit because that's a bit of detail. I'm not sure we'd be able to easily retrieve or at least retrieve with

the the twenty twenty four eyes looking at it. So that's great. As to the question of you know people in the ring thinking someone else was going to win the rumble and seen it kind of being flum mixed at the question now as like the answers know, like people knew that there was a number thirty that was a mystery and that that number thirty was going to win the rumble. People knew that, but what they didn't know except for a very

small circle, is who number thirty was going to be. And we know this because of a few bits of testimony on the night that we're going to get to here in just a moment. But at least the Figure four Weekly said that that there was an expectation going into the show that Undertaker was going

to win the rumble. Wow, he was going to be a back to backer, a back to backer I mean they still closed WrestleMania with him anyway against Edge, So you can see that being only accelerated if that was the plan, that that being only better if by the way you have you have you just have you been on your computer at all? Have you seen this fucking clip of John Ceena. I don't want to see it, Pasa. I gotta be honest with you. It's so bizarre. I'm not into this

new bid to like this only fans. I'm not into this like marketing thing he's doing is so bizarre. He's got the uh, he's got the envelope for the Oscar whatever Oscar he's presenting. He's got it on like that's all he's were. He's on his crush. You see the you see like the the just all the everything. It's absolutely atrocious, so bizarre. It's so bizarre, Like, dude, come on, just you're a fake athlete. No, that's all you are. He's brand he's branding a movie. I

mean, he's gorilla marketing. Yeah, you want to talk about gorilla glue, right, So so yeah, Taker winning was was talked about. It talked about in you know the wrestling press is like an an expected direction. It's not entirely clear. I think Prichard said like six weeks out they knew to expect Sena in the rumble. I'm not sure exactly how far out they knew that not only was Sena gonna be there, but that we're gonna put him over in the match. I think it would be kind of hard,

honestly. Don't you to actually have him come in and not win? Do you think there'd be a way to do that that wouldn't just piss everybody off. You can't do that. I mean, you got to have everybody like the same thing. When they did the surprise with Edge like a couple of years later, didn't he go on to win, Yes, lose, I

don't remember, but you know you have to do that. If you're going to have a surprise guy like that come out at number thirty or come out in a late number, he's got to come out of a late number two because, like he says in that clip, he's unsure how the peck is actually going to hold up right exactly, and that that's the thing about coming

back early. There are examples. I know Purchard talked about Mark Merrill coming back too early from an injury and immediately losing all the progress and having to go back on the shelf. That's not what It's not worth it. If you're going to talk the time to have the procedure. I mean, Jesus Christ, just make sure you're not going to hurt yourself again immediately. And so that was kind of obviously on their mind. But I like the idea, you know, it's like, if we can get through just a couple

of and I don't know, he was kind of downplaying it. I thought it was pretty hot action when he went in there and did I didn't think it was a limit. No, I don't think so at all. I mean he seemed like himself seemed he didn't seem like a slow or or or reserved. He saw like John Cena when he got in there. Yeah, yeah, this he's a kind of him. And Triple A says it too

when we hear from him on this match. They kind of I don't know, there's like some criticism of the time that they seem to that seems to have stuck in their craw that they're trying to address that the action between them wasn't any good. It's like, what are you talking about? It's like, uh, you know, it's not Look, look it's not it's not a Hogan Warrior, but it's it's it's decent enough, and you know they have that moment. And also, I mean, this is like fucking Steve

Austin talking about Summer Sam ninety eight. It's a great fucking match, absolutely, you know, Like I don't. I'm not saying this Royal Rumble is a great fucking match. But it's fine, and the moments are good and Johnsena looks great. Yeah, what do you think about the rumble altogether? Because I thought it was actually a pretty good rumble. It's fine, It's fine, you know, I listen, there are some moments. I appreciate

rumbles that that that hold off on eliminations. I like a lot of guys in the ring, and they definitely you know, I didn't I didn't remember that at all being thing. I don't recall it being a thing for a lot of a lot of rumbles, kind of like post two thousand, you know. And I counted at one point there were thirteen guys in the ring at one point, and I'm a big fan of that. Yeah, when the ring was really full, I was like yes, there's nowhere to bump.

This is great, Yeah, exactly. And you know I thought it's fine. You know, it's fine. It was it's a pretty good rumble. It's not great, but it's a it's it's it's better than I would have thought from that time period. I think two thousand and seven way better. But this one was was totally, totally fine. I had some funny moments and stuff, and you know, I appreciate those. And I also

like when guys are one of there are a lot of teases. I don't like when when guys are just kind of brought in and then they get thrown out without being teased to be thrown out at some point, Like I think rumble teases are essential to make a rumble good, to make people think or to like or false eliminations are very very important in a royal rumble to make it just seem you know, like it slows it down but keeps the action

at a decent pace. You know, like when they just come in and people get tossed at random without ever you know, being in jeopardy at one point, it just sucks. It's it's it's lame. And they were they were doing that for a long time, and they were kind of going back to that. I mean, two thousand and seven was the first time I remember them really going back to to long runs and people having long runs in the Rumble. And you know, Jesus, I remember that being a very

big thing. Like remember twousand and seven Rumble was a very It was like a big throwback to me of of of some of the rumbles that I loved growing up. Yep, yep. And I like about this Rumble too, is you have you have an actual well spread out star power arrangement, Like they get that wrong way too often lately. I feel like in the past few rumbles, like you know, you got six people anyone gives a shit

about, You've got probably three people anyone thinks can win. For God's sakes, spread them out, yes, don't have them all come in after twenty or like you know, there should be an undertaker, a Shawn Michaels, a battista, a triple H caliber in the whole rumble. Like yeah, I mean, listen, I I think you should always save your big guns for the last the last ten for sure, Like you got to have you know, you got to have a top guy in the ring, the whole

rumble. It doesn't have to be the winner. Sure, I mean, you've gotta have somebody special, you know. But yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree with that, like you should have it pretty well spread out. But I do think you should save your big guns for the twenties and up. Yes, I agree, I agree with that. I think, you know, it's sort of like, like I said, there's six people anyone cares about, there's three that can win. I'm talking about the

six, not the three. The three go at the end, I unless you're doing the gimmick where number one is going to win this year, which is always a good move too. So although I like to in fact that Batista was in there for a long time, he was number eight what I'm saying, Patisa's great exactly and an undertaker and Sean were there for for a long time, it just didn't seem like there was this big chunk in the middle of the rumble where like you had eight nine people come out that no

one gives a fuck about. They do that a lot, and both the men's and women's rumbles lately. If you know what they do now is they save it for a bunch of fucking like nobody cares who who's in the last ten for this last Rumble was awful. It was like they got rid of all their star power earlier on Yeah, No, No Go it was it was spread it out right. Every three four entrance should be someone that you

know that people can get out of their seat for. And what's cruel about this is you had the aforementioned you know that, the core, the Batista, Sina, Triple eight, sean Undertaker, but then you also had the next generation of guys in a nice glimpse at who they were going to be, like seampunk. He comes out, you can hear it, you can hear the people are going to get behind this guy. Cody is there, which is just fascinating to see him considering where he would go to see him

in Triple h go at it? What that's something bizarre world man. So it actually isn't the worst show to go back and look at in hindsight because of the what would end up happening to the people in the rumbling. Yes Pritchard, didn't he say on the Conrad Show that was six weeks they had about to his memory of knowledge that seeing it was going to be back and that they would put him over. So how did they handle it? Seena mentioned that clip we played boss a spiral staircase, a ramp. Do you

know what he's talking about? Like a mini at the garden? Ah? No, okay, that's fine. Well I don't think so hopefully, I don't know. I don't know. He's what I will say, this is pre it's pre renovations. So it's not the Guard Garden. You knew, Yeah, you know, it's not that Yeah, because they they it was

twenty thirteen, I think when when everything changed. So and speaking of the look of the building, I mean, if you're going to build a new arena, for fuck's sake, can you at least do a signature roof. Oh, honest to god, are you not building a roof that's instantly recognizable on TV? I mean, that's so, it's so fucking it's so the

it's the greatest roof. I'll say, it's the greatest ceiling. And honestly, it's one of the reasons why I like that fucking like I like that, uh, the fucking the scope in Norfolk like because it's got that weird looking at. Ceilings are essential to to an arena. But no one is ever going to build an arena with the signature roof. Again, apparently they all have to be this bottomless cavern of score Bride. Right, come on, folks, they they retrofitted the garden. It looks great. It looks

as modern as it needs to look. So it's not. Don't act like it has to look that fucking formulaic and that you know, modular yep to be modern and handle modern demands. So there there is the situation, and we turn to Hornswoggle's book. Dylan Possel came out with the boat his time, and of course he factors in on this show. He does a skip backstage with Vince. This is after the revelation Boss that indeed Hornswaggle was Vince

McMahon's bastard's son. That was the angle thoughts, Oh, I believe that you know that that it's important that that the that the owner of the company does have multiple children in the idea that we can then progress the story on a on a level of excitement and originality. Yeah, I believe that best practice requires things to maybe be circled back and right, you know, take things offline, you know, create a disruptive value in different entertainers. So

how does this this storyline create a disruptive value. I believe the fact that I that I birthed a little person adds value not only to him, but into the prospects of my ability to redistribute my my, my life genes, your life genes, well, yes, my my am not to be confused with your guest genes or my genes. Are you what genes, my lee genes or any other I mean, the genes that I have inside my testicles provide any elements of surprise and excitement for a multitude of individuals and things about

nature. Oh so, I'm glad you said that, because I was wondering how far it could extend. And if it is indeed, like every other fucking thing you say, also relevant to things of the nature, have the thing we're talking about, then then I can I can draw a clearer fence around what we're talking about, which is nice when you say circle back, what's what's that? Uh? The circle? Well, you know, because

we're we a lot of times. You know, the WW is a family owned business, and so my family has been at the at the forefront of the the the company and the television vehicles, and so we thought, maybe, hey, you know what, let's let's kind of bring it back to family. Let's circle back, let's bring it back. Let's kind of figure out how we can again relate this company to a family, a family uh orientation, right, a familial orientation. So you said you wanted to go

more towards a family style product. Yes, you meant having a new, illegitimate family member. I thought that that would be the best way to not only uh progress the McMahon family storyline, but also add an entertaining value to

to the television product. Got it. Yeah, So, in addition to insight on the storyline that we mentioned and outside for that matter, okay, I was afraid of that, Swaggle also gives us a quick glimpse as to how the talent was processing the fact that there was this mystery guy in the

rumble and what they were and were not being told. This is from his book Life Is Short and so am I. We knew there was something that we weren't being told that night because the lineup for the rubble match backstage only had twenty nine guys on it at the pre show meeting. Each year they'd get all the people in the brumble together go through the key spots and eliminations until they brought it down to the final few. Then they'd ask everyone else to leave. That's got to be a moment, man, Wow, we

everyone to leave the room place. I'd let everyone to please, you know, evacuate the the the temple we're currently in. Pleased. Vince needs to talk to his top guys. Can everyone please leave? The top guys need need needed an education, I'd assume, he writes that year. They then told Batista, Hunter, and Kine what was going on, as well as maybe mentioning it to Mark, Henry Chavo Junior and Carledo, all of whom

John eliminated as soon as he got to the ring. But for all I know, they might have taken those three guys aside and only said, hey, there's a surprise guy coming out at number thirty. He'll eliminate you as soon as he comes out. From what I know, John got there after the show started and hung out in a bus until just before he came out. It's been tough to keep things surprising and wrestling in the age of social media, but it's great when it happens. And on that night. It

made for one of those moments no one we'll ever forget. So that's a perspective of the talent, you know, speaking This match is actually still going on the Rumbled Nate World Rock talk about it. Hornschwager was never eliminated. He was not. He never went over the top row. No, they say they just qualified Finley. Yeah, but that had nothing to do with we had a separate number than horn Swatt. Yeah, Hornschlocker was in the match. He never got to toss over the top rope. So to this

day he's got a claim that's right. Is there anybody else in rubble history they can say the same? I think so, no of I have never I don't recall that at all. I mean except no, because he was disqualified by not showing into the I don't say Savage potentially because he didn't show at the ninety one Rumble, but I don't think so. I don't think

that that doesn't count. Like when the rumble, if you if you miss your your spot, because you have the two minutes to come out, So if you if you don't come out within that two minute window, then you're eliminated by forfeit. But as somebody who entered the match and was never tossed over the top rope. No that I believe Swoggle is the only one. The Swags is the only the Swags. The Swags. Remember when we saw him at Russell at Starcast. I do remember that at the whole Jelly came

swaggling by that there was something weird what happened there. He was talking to Dave about something. You're talking to Dave Meltzer about a huge crowd that they drew, and somebody else showed up, and Madden showed up. Ark Madden showed up and like it was just it was, this is a weird thing. And I had never felt more awkward at that, like around these people

like I have no reason to be here at all, tremendous. So that's a bit of talent perspective on what was happening in the rumble that night.

But fortunately Jim Corderis, who went on to be an analyst for the Fight Network and read a book and kind of open up about his experiences at WW was one of the referees assigned to be in the inner circle for that whole thing because you have to smarten up the refs because they have to, you know, convey appropriate communication at the end of the rumble from ringside and their

earpieces to make sure everything's going as planned. And so when it came time to smarten up, the four officials that had to know that it was going to be John Cena. Oh yeah, Jimmy Corderis. Lets us know really

how it went down that night in New York. Well, what happened there was we were all called to the meeting and there was twenty nine participants, twenty nine of the participants in the rumble and the four referees that were there, and we all went through the meeting until it came down to the final four, and they kept referring to this thirtieth person as the surprise entrant.

They never named him. And once he got down to the final four, which was the three remaining and the surprise, they asked everybody to step out of the room except for the four referees and the three guys remaining, and then they filled us in and they told us who that thirtieth participant was going to be a big surprise because John Cena had an injury. He was supposed to be out for the rumble, and even most likely out for WrestleMania,

and nobody expected him back, so it was a huge surprise. They didn't want it leaking out to anybody. They swore us the secrecy. They said, if this thing gets out, we're coming to everybody to find out where the leak was. So, you know, I got asked several times during the day by the other referees, hey, man, who's a surprise, And I'm like, dude, I ain't telling you. You should be surprised

like everybody else. I take a little pride in the fact that I didn't spill the be but it was kind of cool because it ended up being John Cena, as we all know now. And the funny part was we were out at the ring, so we didn't see this happening. We just heard from the other guys who were in the back waiting to see this thirtieth guy was going to be. And you know, here's this limbo that pulls up

on the fifth floor of Madison Square Gardens where the arena level is. A guy gets out and he's covered in a blanket, you know, and they, I first didn't know who it was, but then they saw his feet and they saw the pumps, the Rebok pumps and they we know who number thirty is. Oh my god, I don't believe that that's funny. If it is true, though he didn't pay attention to that little detail, But yes, there it is. You know, they they tell everybody at that

moment. And so to Hornswoggle's question, I guess the other guys who weren't in that final three were told that just some generic number thirty is going to throw you out and weren't smartened up as to who exactly it was. But that's how people had eyes on John Cena to the degree they did that night, and how the message was communicated mentioned. It was reported in figure four and other publications an undertaker was slotted potentially to win this rumble, and that

a hunter was put back into the rumble. That there was some back and forth about whether Triple H would be in it, and that was another change of plans. And then as soon as they decided to do that, Sena phoned the office to let them know that he actually might be eligible and ready for the show. Wow, it was. It was a lot of back and forth. Now we know we end up with a triple threat. Magic media right with Sena Orton and Triple h and you love this one because Orton

triumphs. I you know, I was a big fan of that at the time. I was a big fan of that because I mean I wrestled Manning you're talking about, that's right. Yeah, Yeah, I was a big fan of that because I I thought this was such a great run for him, and I thought it was portally. Vince was totally in love with the Randy Orton character at this point in time. Yeah, Like, I thought it was a great run and I actually didn't want it to end, uh Like, because then if you remember, oh, he gave the night after

WrestleMania, he gave a fucking great promo. It's it's funny the things that that of the modern era that stuck with me. Hey, it's because it was good stuff. That's the bost Ever. Yeah, he came out and that's when he declared it was the Age of Orton, and I was like,

motherfucker. It just really it worked. It clicked also that Monday, I remember it was like things felt unpredictable again because that that Monday, Uh Gibble and Bits for some reason decided he wanted in on the world title picture and it was like things are coming out of left, out of nowhere, like like you didn't know what the fuck was, Like what why is GBL like even you know, because it led to that that fatal four way match at at whatever the I don't know if it was backlash or not, but

whatever the next maybe it was Fatal four Way. Maybe that was the name of the pay per view, god, but whatever it was, it was just a very It was a lot of fun. It was very exciting, and I remember being really pissed off that they took the belt off of him the pay per view after WrestleMania, because I was like, he just came up with that incredible that incredible description of his title run. The age of Orton's so stupid, like let's let it go on, let it go on

to at least Summer Slapt there. You know. It was so fucking money. Yeah, that was Yeah. I was a big fan of Randy Orton at that time. I was really happy that he got that that run effic you know, because he was one of those guys like I remember, like when Jericho won the Undisputed Championship and they started putting him over guys that, you know, to really kind of get him over as champion, and you know, there was just stuff. It just didn't really work as well.

And I felt maybe I wonder too, if he just didn't have enough time as champion to really, uh feel like a real champion. And but Orton, they really let it play out and let it build and build, and he was like he really came to feel like a true deserving champion. Yes, and then they fucking took it away from him right away from And that's that's the story of his career. You know. It's like, yeah, at the time, they've kind of closed in on a Randy Orton that feels

like a top guy. They they they fuck it up in a way or he fucks it up in a way that when they try to come back to it, it's like, no, we've already seen this, Like he's not that guy. Yeah, we can't believe that he's going to have a legacy title reign right now because there's always some bullshit. Well, I mean, think about it too, like he never got that fucking every time with him, you know, he gets that he beats uh, he beats Benoit at that Summer Slam, and all of a sudden, he's he's he's the guy,

and and he gets it. He has it for a month before he drops the Triple H and has that awful babyface turn that you know completely killed him and derailed him for a while, and then and then it takes him until two thousand and seven to get everything back, like he's always having huge drug and attitude issues in five too. Yeah, that was even thinking about

later. It's like the Rumble thing, you know, like everything derailed him there and he was supposed to beat Ray and but Eddie Guerrero getting fucking dead and all that shit, Like there was just so much like he just never really got that run. And so when he finally got it, I was like, just let him, let it play out. Let it play out for a long time. There's no need to rush this off him. Yeah, but you know, not that they brush it off him, but they

still rush it off him. Absolutely. Yeah, it's true. And I wonder, you know, if Mania looked any different if Sina went against Orton one on one or Triple H went against Orton one on one. I can see why it was triple threat and a few reasons. One because you know Orton was going to go over, but two because you know, you don't know how far and hard scene is going to be able to go. So nice to be able to rely on Orton and Triple H to carry most of

the match. I don't remember being a particularly great match or anything, but it was that finish was impactful. Yeah, it was what was it? It was? Wasn't Triple H. Was Triple H going for the pin after pedigree and then had the running kick to the head, Orton punted him and then pinned Sina. Yes, I think, yeah, yeah, it's good.

Great finish, great finish. So in terms of the game, ww I think their BT sport at least that's what the watermark that's on it on the YouTube clip I found did an air to segment where Triple H is sitting with Shawn Michaels. You could tell it's like an NXT taping because Sean has the NXT hat on and they're doing one of those watch back you know,

put him in a film room kind of things. Yeah, yep. And Triple H his stream of consciousness now on the outcome, because of course he was the one that seemed to tossed out to win the in two thousand and eight, getting a huge reaction I think knowing that people will believe in this moment that like, oh, like I see where they're going with this, right, Triple H is going over. There's a moment with me at fully

like all this really cool stuff happens. But in my mind, I know where this is really going, and it's really going to the John Cena moment of Sina coming back, and I'd like them not knowing that John's coming back. This is super early you talk about an injury return. John came back like in half the time he was supposed to come back from neck surgery, next surgery. They didn't tell me. I didn't know he was coming in. Yeah, epic mind blowing moments they hit him all day. He walked

out and like this is the garden. There are so many moments for me in the garden where there's like things that happen where like you can remember in your mind going like holy cow, this is incredible. This is one of them, like Sina that that moment of right before they were counting us down and I knew Sena was about to come out, Like I remember thinking, like God, this place is going to go mental when he walks out here and they did this is the kind of stuff that you as a performer when

you know it's about to take place. For a guy like it's just such a cool moment. I know firsthand. We just talked about it. What this is like that moment where you come back from that injury and you have it all sitting there and you're going to get this opportunity to blow the roof off the place. But no matter who you are and how big of a performer you are, there's that moment where you go, well, I hope

they give a crap when I walk through that curtain. So knowing what he was experiencing in this point, for me was there's a ton of anxiety. Oh my god, you know what I mean? Are they going to care? How are they going to react? And how am I going to perform? Is everything going to hold up? Them? Coming up? And you're coming off from an injury nine times out of ten, especially with the first one, and for John, I think it's the first time he was you

know, that was one of us things like John never got hurt. And of course now there's a chink in you know, yeah, in Superman's armor and that again mentally, what that does to you very difficult. I knew how this would feel the John. But I remember Taker one time telling me about anxiety that he felt before match, and it was like with mind blowing to me that Taker felt anxiety, Like I was like, are you kidding

me? Like he I remember just remember him talking about it with me and me thinking like to make sure, I would have never in my wildest dreams imagined that he had that feeling before he walked out there and all his doubts and everything else. Because to me, you know, every single time I stood in the ring and watched his music kid walk out, I got chills and like the reaction was massive. I would have never had a doubt my

mind about him doing anything, but yet he did. And that's the human part of the performance where but it doesn't dawn on you until later in your career where that puts you with people. I think that's helped me in with NXT as well of being able to put my head in performance a little bit

and go like, look, it happens to everybody. And again there's the point at the sign of the WrestleMania like you know the it's funny now fans make oh they're going to give you the point of the sign, like as if this is a this hogy thing that has happened over the years, Like we tell everybody to point at the sign. We don't tell anybody to point at the sign. This is what everybody wants to do, Like you want to have the moment that you watched when you were a fan of the man.

I get that opportunity to point at the sign at WrestleMania. I get that opportunity to be the guy that is going there. And you know what this feels like for John right this is the stamp on the moment of your back and I can't he can't tell you what he says right here either. So yeah, they don't tell anybody to point at the sign, of course not. I mean, come on, why do you why do you have

to say that. I know that it bothers you, that it's fucking cheesy, and you still do it, But why do you have to come up with a story about how we don't, like you're really going to make the talent pretend they want to point at the sign, like I don't. Nobody wants a point at the sign, nobody, And if they do, they

they're doing it in my opinion, which doesn't count for anything. I understand they're doing it because it's bad form to not want to point at the sign, because you're gonna tell me that Ronda Rousey fucking point at the sign. Oh so awkward. So she's like worried about where the camera is right, and she's pointing it like weir and she does like three times. And that's when she's pointing at it like a whaler wilds a harpoon. Right, what is this? What is this? Equal police? We find you in here,

fucking thing? Ums down, stop it. Yes, you can have pyro go off around the sign, but to point at it and to look at it like, oh my god, my desk. Can have the pyro around the sign. You can have your fucking camera angles where you have the winner on the fucking corner, and you can have the sign in the background, but do not have them point the sign. Ninety seven ninety eight oh one, can you picture Steve Austin point at the sign? You know why?

You know why they didn't do it. There was no fucking sign. If there was, you don't do it because if you're a big enough deal to win the rumble in headline WrestleMania. WrestleMania should be grateful to have you. You shouldn't be grateful to have WrestleMania be a big enough deal that, Yeah, of course I'm going to WrestleMania. What the fuck? And in fact this is just the beginning. Like the Wrestlmania sign being up there didn't

start happening until I believe, WrestleMania twenty twenty. Yeah, because they wanted to have one longer campaign. The diamond. Yeah, they had it hanging since November. I think I don't the rafters to promote it, and it was effective that year, making Manius even like an even bigger deal because they were signaling it the whole time. But yeah, this is I don't buy that explanation at all at all that these people want to do it. Maybe

like two people want to do it. Here's the thing. Then if they're not doing it on there, if they're not doing it because you told them to do it, tell them to not do it, right, say you know what, you're fucking fired. But now there's all that pyro up there. Remember that they let the fire, they let the sign on fire one time. That's how out of their mind they were about doing it give me a break. Yeah, we have Pyro up there, but we don't tell

anybody to do it. We just have Pyro up there in case somebody wants to do it. We don't draw attention to the fact that it's a you know, WrestleMania sign. So that's that's such a triple H thing I'm noticing over the years as he does press conferences and kind of makes himself available as Paul right instead of triple H. That's his thing. Like there's these little things that he knows are valid criticisms, and like he tries to eat them

alive. When he's talking. He tries to like, you know, after wrestled Ania last year's like, you know, it never ceases to amaze me of people always question the story. And then we get to the story and he's tinting his fingers on the table, and it's like these little things he doesn't want to he doesn't want to actually state the criticism, but he does want to try to extinguish it well at the same time acting like he didn't

hear it. It's, you know, there's nothing more annoying than somebody tries to answer criticism but feels like too big of a deal to acknowledge that they heard it, that they're that much of a loser that they're reading people's comments and shit, shut up game, shut up game. So that's his feeling

on the night and his recollection of everything that that went down. So, I mean, with this kind of a superhero comeback, right, this kind of huge moment, you have to think people like got over their scene of hate, and the next night on Raw when he took the microphone, they were just elated. Oh I'm sure they're fucking miserable that he's miserable put in all this incredible work to be back there for them. You know, Nah, can you hear that? Ladies and gentlemen, I am here tonight to

answer a question that's put on everyone's mind. What delivery? How could this be possible? Yes? In October two thousand and seven, I suffered an injury to my pectoralis muscle, which requires surgery. Sounds like a AI voiceover you'd us on a TikTok lay, but they says this sucks. He really thought they were going to respect them. I ain't even gonna lie, guys, that's music to my ears right about now. Yeah, Jess fucking gag

me. The doctors said I would be out for about twelve months. That is one year, which means which means that for the first time in my career, I would have to watch from the bench the greatest spectacle in sports entertainment history, and that is WrestleMania. And what now now? In my absence, a new champion was crowned, new contenders were put in place, and for the WWE, life goes on. But in a hospital bed, my life was crumbling, and with each day my WrestleMania dreams faded further and

further away. So in the last second of the final hour, I made a choice. I made a gamble. I let it all ride. Yes, I risked my career, Yes, I risked my health. Why for a chance, just for one damn chance to maybe and they fucking mate it amazing, maybe get an opportunity to once again go to WrestleMania. Oh shut up. Maybe it was luck, maybe it was skilled, maybe it was

both. But ladies and gentlemen, the impossible has happened. I am back, I am the winner of the twenty first Royal Rumble, and damn it, I'm going to WrestleMania. They're overjoed. It was a little bit. It was a weird time. It was weird, so very yeah, it was such a weird time. It was a weird time that that there was such a a a a vocal backlash to him, and uh where yet they still fucking they kept it going. There was just something impossibly corny about like

why is he talking like that like a robot? Like what is he doing? Like why does he had that delivery? I don't understand it. It's it's like it's one or one way or the other with this guy where he's like so a boolliant that he sounds like a cartoon character the whole time. I don't understand who thinks that's going to connect with anybody, But there he is saying, pectoralis muscle. Oh you know, it's gotta love that.

Pectoralis the whole thing. And look, nothing but respect for the fact that he pedro pectorals, nothing but respect for the fact they put in the hard work to get back. But can we not make it sound like you rose out of the wheelchair after someone said you're gonna be paralyzed for the rest of

your life. It's it's a muscle tear, like Sewan Michaels did in two thousand and two, like Kevin Nash did in two thousand I thought, then Shawn Michael's like he he was at the he had a wheelchair after tripple to beat the shit out of him, and then he comes out like out yep, yeah, and he gets out of the wheelchair and danced around like a

fucking buffoon. I mean he in one night. He turns it into like a really cool moment into something that's like like yeah, you know, like self congratulatory, like you got to do that kind of thing quietly, like a like a stealth fucking you know, like a badass like I'm still here, you know, as opposed to like I did it like I'm I'm your hero, Like I don't know, just doesn't work for me, and I don't think it'll worked for anybody else at the time, because you have this

moment and then it immediately goes right back to people being like that's the art of the baby face promo. To me in the modern age, it's it's like, how how good are you at reading how the fans are going to react so that you say things that avoid the land mines? Yes, you avoid the triggers. That's what Cody's so good at. I got to give it to him. He knows how to avoid saying the things that people can

be like, oh fuck this guy, you know, like stop. Yeah, No, he's he's very good at that because I mean he's been able to navigate, navigate away from from from any sort of hate or disdain. Like last year. You think about when with the Sammy's Ain thing, like he was able to just really glide along with that, right example, that could have that would have eaten Seena live right if he did what Cody did in that context. Yeah, yeah, he perfectly. He did it perfectly

so that nobody nobody, nobody booed him and nobody hated him. And he never comes off as somebody that's like, you know, holier than now or two weak. And I know there's a lot of people that don't like Cody and they can't stand the sound of his voice. And that's fine. I'll tell other people in the building. Yes, right. It matters to me is if he's able uh people in the building to work the microphone out of

whether the people don't create the sense of rejection. There's always going to be people at home disliking the top babyface, that that's that's to be expected, and there's nothing wrong with that, But is the babyface good enough to make sure that that doesn't bleed into the actual reaction of the masses when he's before

the people, because that doesn't serve anybody really a Sena. It was such a it was such an albatross around Sena that eventually they kind of crafted this story that that's part of the fun of Sena is how people how he's so divisive. But all that is is a capitulation. All that is is admitting defeat that you can't manipulate the people like you thought you could. Same thing

with Roman Reigns as a babyface, same exactly. Yep. So uh, you and I can remind everybody else that John Seina is their hero, has always been their hero, and will always be their hero. God, what a great bit that was. That was right smack deb in the middle of the time period, right the year before. Unbelievable. So they did. They did a lot of qualifiers this year for the Rumble. They had Umaga beat Jim Duggan, who was still doing occasional appearances for the company in this

era, which is easy to forget because that needs to happen. I know Snitzky beat Drew McIntyre on a house show. This is all on Wikipedia. Triple H did a match against Rick Flair to qualify, but it got decued.

So they did this little storyline where Triple H was no longer allowed to be in the Rumble because of that, and then afterwards he Triple H, I guess, had a fit and started destroying the set on Raw, and so Vince putting Triple H back in give him a second chance if he could defeat three people, and he beat Snitzky, Mark Henry, and Steve Regal

in a gauntlet match on Raw win Entry. Again, there's a reference made during the call to the fact that, you know, Triple ahch had to go through health to get into the match, and Snisky has to stay in the match too. Oh, I know he's in there. It wasn't his fault from what I understand, I do. I did hear that, I did hear someone else wanted to book him. I want to talk about Jim

Duggan in this time period. It is a rare opportunity to offer up a little anecdote that sticks with one that reads his book around this very curious run he had in WWE, and I'll just leave it, leave it here. I'll just state it and let it sit all right. When I got there, he writes, I was eager to find out what i'd be doing.

He's talking about when he got to a shot in London, not the company, but a particular event, because I figured that if they were bringing me this far and even having me cancel an event to do it, it must be somewhat significant. I waited in the catering area while Vince and his creative

and TV people had their production meeting. After it was over, Barry Wyndham before a wrestler who was now at WB Agent came over to me and said, Jim, we're going to have you working with Paul Burchhill tonight and he's going to beat you in about forty five seconds. I sat there, stunned, and I said, you know what, Barry, I'm not going to

do it. I came all the way over here, and I don't mind being used to build up these other guys, but this just isn't right to pull me out an event on a weekend I lined up months ago for this. He's talking about some charity golf tournament or something that he had to cancel. So said my old ass home, I don't care. Barry nodded and said, well, you got to tell Vince. I said I would, and I went to Vince's makeshift office. I was waiting outside and I was

pacing back and forth. Finally a guy came out of Vince's office, and you could tell I was pissed. A lot of Vince's personal security team was made up of ex cops, and I've always gotten along with cops, so I was friendly with a bunch of them. One of the main security guys, Jim, came up to me, and he could tell I was steaming. We talked and I was cordial, but I was still pretty ticked off.

After a few more minutes on the production, one of the production guys came out and said Vince would be with me when he had a minute, and I said, very deliberately, I ain't going anywhere. I'll be right here. My temper was snowballing, and Jerry Briscoe walked over to try to smooth things over, but I wasn't about to be smoothed over. I was getting madder and madder When I finally got to see Vince, I walked into the office with Barry, and Vince was texting loud someone I'm very I died,

Jim, pal what's going on? Berry said, Hey, Vince, you want me to stay with you. Vince looked up, surprised and said, no, I've known Jim for nearly thirty years. No problem. Come on in, Jim, sit, now take a load off. I just have to finish texting this. Yeah. Yes. He focused on his texting what for a few seconds. Then I asked if he asked if I knew how to spell a couple of words. I won't say what they were, Jim, do you know how to spell tits? Do you know how to

spell uh? Uh uh? Extramarital fornication? No, I don't, Vince, but we're all still looking for it, me too, bell hashtag. Oh boy. I won't say what they were, the words he was asking me to spell for his texts, because Jim writes, I don't want to be disclosing anything he might have been corresponding to someone else. Wow, But I didn't know how to spell them anyway, So I said, still in kind of a huff. No, this thing drives me crazy? Do you text much? Jim? Are you a Dougs? Are you? Are you?

Are you a Texter? Do you text? Are you on the the the smartphone bandwagon? Do you believe in intelligent phonography? Hell? Are you Doug Boat? Do you want to Maybe that'd be a new gimme for your Doug boat? Huh? Is it a heat heat? It could be. Is it a whole holt in a heat heat and a stick your fucking wood up your ass type thing? Yeah? How about that? Uh? Are you reading your texts again? I think this is a good opportunity, Vince.

Why don't you keep telling Doug in if he's going to come in here with an attitude where things might be headed, you know you don't have to go hard, but just let him know. Jim, I don't know what the fuck is you want right now, but I can tell you this, and I mean this with all sincerity. I don't care. I don't give a shit. It's back on his shit. He's back on his bullshit in

that fucking cast. I'm not interested in what it is that you have to say to me because I've never really liked you, I've never cared about you, and I've always thought, what can I do to make this guy look stupider than he is? You look like you have a disability, because because you've always looked like you have some sort of mental mental crack in your brain, all right, and now it's more than ever because you're a dumb,

fucking prick. You don't want to know something. I knew when I flew you out here that you were not going to do what you want, what I want I told you to do. I did that on purpose, Yes, all right. I knew that you had something scheduled, something important. I knew that there was something you didn't want to miss. I said, you know what, that's a great opportunity to fuck with duggan to fuck with that oath totally true. I don't care. It's to me, it's is

exactly what happened. And I said, I'm going to make him fly out to fucking England so that there is and I'm not going to even use him for anything remotely important. I'm gonna make him look like a bitch, And if he doesn't want to look like a bitch, I make him look like a bitch anyway, because he can't go back home and do that fucking thing he wanted to do. So who's the winner here, Dugan? You know me? Yes, because I'm texting with a female. Oh who's gonna who's

gonna jump on my jump? All right, I'm going to have my cock in hand, Dugan, and I'm going to be putting it inside another female's vagina. I don't care if you're sitting here or not. I'll fuck her anyway. But one thing I can tell you that won't happen is you won't be going to that thing you want to go to. I want to come in here. You know you have audience with me, don't. You're not gonna have audience with me. You're gonna be my audience as I fucked the

shit out of this fucking broad Okay, I got to step in. It's not April seventh quite yet. But look, I mean he beats beneath the surface of everything, you know. But well, I'm watching this awaight rumble and suddenly there he is backstage with Swaggle. God, isn't it like a whole different world? It is. It's so it's a bizarre thing. It it feels like a different time. I mean, it is a different time,

but it just it's so bizarre. And then when you see Ashley masorrow us her soul, God, you know, and the whole Playboy interplay with Maria, it's so heart wrenching to see her in that, Like just it's so depressing. It's so reality, you know what it is. It's like Maria. You know, Ashley did that affidavit for the concussion lawsuit. That's just recounting all these horrific things that she said happened to her when they were

in Kuwait in two thousand and six. I mean, you know, drugged to the point of being immovable and being raped by someone in military personnel. I mean, I don't know she called him an army doctor, but I mean just a horrible, horrible circumstance, and she, you know, basically

died of suicide as far as him can tell. Years later, and now, you know, with what's happened with this lawsuit against Vince, people were visiting the things that she said and people coming out to you know, support what she said or add color to what she said or extrapolate on it.

It's a very messy and sad and ugly situation. But to go back and watch this rumble where Maria is about to be in Playboy, and Ashley had been in Playboy the year before, and they're having basically like a Playboy based storyline, so stupid where she's like, you know, convincing Maria that she should be in Playboy. It just hits so different now, so differently, and a lot of the things that the announcers say, I don't know.

I mean, I've always watched Vince WWE and I've always known that he's micromanages and' but you know now that he's been gone long enough that like a new voice is kind of a new prevailing voice has taken over the broadcast. You do notice like there's no way Michael Cole said that there's no way Coachman isn't just sitting there waiting for precise verbiage to be delivered to him from US McMahon.

Not to say Coachman at the top of his head would be any better, but you can just tell it's I don't know, it's just now so much more obvious that the voice of Vince hovers over everything that used to happen in this company. Yep. And it really is storylines that like are designed

to dramatize his peccadillos. Yes, right, designed to put his psychosis on the screen, and you know, you come up at the beginning, middle, and end to make it look like a cogent storyline, like it was presented not just to get him his kicks, but you know, to actually advance careers. But well, let's be honest, it's always been about him getting his kicks. Have you ever seen the clip of from seven of him berating Ashley backstage on top? I probably did. I bet I haven't seen

him a long time. I mean, I think this is an appropriate time to revisit it. I have sound of it, but if you can pull it up on your side on YouTube. It resurfaced now in the context of people you know, and by the way, this epidavit is out there a lot of years and you know they got hurt. Well not they got her, but she sent an email apologizing for being involved with the lawyer, and

you know how that works. You know, you cross the company and then you regret doing it because it's not going anywhere, and so this thing kind of died down. People didn't really get very activist about it. But now that Vince is out of power, it's it's a lot easier to get more animated about this without consequence the same kind of consequence, And so this one

surfaced. This one surfaced again. Just just type Ashley Masorrow Vince McMahon into YouTube and you get a video that says, n instinct man brates Ashley Masorrow over spilled coffee for two uncomfule minutes. Is that it exactly right? And now when you hit play, I'm gonna need you to go to a particular time code after Matt Hardy leaves the frame. Matt Hardy, by the way, somebody I believe that a dated actually Massorrow for a minute. Go to

fifty seconds. So this so they do a bit where Vince is backstage. This is Maniacal Psycho two thousand and seven ECW. Vince yes, and she accidentally bumps into him and he spills coffee on his jacket. And then Matt Hardy leaves the scene. And then when you're ready, I'm ready, I'm gonna play the audio for the Solar System. Will you play the video? Three two one play. I'm terribly sorry mister Rannel had to try a claim to I wasn't meant to do that, didn't you? Of course, I

didn't. It was an accident. I promise. I feel terrible. You meant to do that? No, I didn't. Of course you meant to do that. Of course I didn't. Double mean what you did? What's coffee? Okay? Yeah? How do you really feel? I feel terrible? I want to help or I just want to get into how do you How do you feel? I feel bad? Feel bad? Yeah? Of course it was an accident. I would never want to do that. It was how bad you feel? Terrible? You know? I hate to do

this. You're suspended? What I'm suspended? Suspended? Which which you're suspended? Yours? Your girl crying out? You're thoughts? I mean that, I mean it's it's disgusting, actually, like I mean, I don't know. She looks legitimately disturbed after this happened to her, and this is this is a year after that happened to her in Kuwait. Oh, and this is according to Paul London, who used to go out there, and we did a couple of podcasts about this. You know, Vince would be constantly

propositioning ah her because I don't know. I don't think it's too far now to discern to connect fact patterns such to say that Vince got particularly interested in the ones that were in Playboy. Of course, right you think about Oliver Tory, Oliver Sable. I imagine that he hand picked them, Emily Feinberg, m you know, I imagine that he was the one who said, yeah, you know what, I think you should do it, or assign it to them or whatever. I just think after they did it, he

became very interested in them and of course propositioned them constantly. And I saw you naked, and I believe I own that now, and then to do essentially horrifying after she, you know, because you know, the thing is everyone says that she like rejected the advances, not in a way where she was like, you know, so you know, so in your face about it. They fired her. They you know, she was able to thread the needle carefully enough that you know, they kept her working for the company.

But it's just constantly, constantly these suggestions that maybe we should, you know, take this further, knocking on hotel room doors and such, and then you do this, I mean, he just looked completely disturbing. You think he was, yeah, and it's all like all Vince is so good. Vince's it's called method acting, and yeah, I don't think. I don't think that there was. And he's not studying somebody else to get the

nothing I know, it's it's not Stanislavsky at all. It's like we've been I don't know, it's not like we haven't been telling you for ten years in our own way. It's just I mean that actually really made me feel uncomfortable honestly watching that, like shing what we know, knowing what we know.

And I also think too, it's not even just knowing what we know, but in this in this era where it's it's just really come to light about you know, the the the how men of power would just take advantage of of women of you know, if they could, if they if they could do it, I mean if they didn't, if they couldn't do it, you were you were you know, completely shamed, you know, like

you were you would be treated like garbage like she just was. I mean, I don't I can't imagine that she's that good of an actor either. We're just telling stories here, pal, don't be a mark. Don't be a mark. I mean that's the thing, like they're telling stories in in wrestling is really just a nightmare sometimes like it's so the only story we seem to be telling is Vince McMahon fetishes, I mean and then and and it's not only that. It's like there's not a sexual fetish of stories up sex.

It's fetishes of power. It's kiss my ass, it's all that shit. It's not even that. It's also just like this is the way. It's kind of that that bullying that was in that that's kind of the nature of this business, you know, there's always this bullying going on, Like why like in no in no way these guys signed up for a business where they could still act like they were in high school without anybody ratting on them.

In no other business could you treat anybody like this the way that they now I'm not talking about And in the affidavit, when this happens to her, yeah, the one female member of roster that she calls out as being I guess the shoulder to cry on, or at least somebody that was concerned enough about what she was reporting having happened to her that she you know,

offered like guidance as to what to do. Was Maria In like less than two years later, they're in the ring at the Royal Rumble, exchanging dialogue about how Maria should really do Playboy. Yeah, it's a it's a it's a powerful thing, you being exposed. I don't know if we need to hear from you at this particular point in times, sir, Thank you said it said enough. Reality is what it is. It's reality, fantasy is reality. And wrestling hello, yes, there is no such thing as you

know acting. I love how we always say like the best wrestlers are the ones that take their own personality and turn it up to one hundred. But somehow that doesn't apply when people are acting like complete fucking psycho, murderous, fucking you know what I mean, sexually perverted exactly. I mean, that's not the real them. Sopaths. Yeah, that's not the that's not them turned up to one hundred in that case. So they were qualifying matches,

is what I'm trying to say. For the two thousand and eight Royal Robo there were also there's also qualifying evidence as well. Here's a quick list from a from Wikipedia. Snitsky beats Drew McIntyre, Hardcore Holly beats Trevor Murdoch on a show Morrison beats the Morrison in the Miz, beat Jimmy wang Yang, What's that Who? Beat Trevor Murdock, Hardcore Holly just to fucking wait, Morrison in the Mizz and a tag match beat Jimmy wang Yang and Chin and

morn a SmackDown ECW Howse Show to both qualify as a tag team. Hornswaggle and Foley beat the Highlanders and a tag match on Raw to qualify. Jamie Nobles Jesus Christ beats Chuck Palomo and SmackDown to qualify. Cody Rhodes beats William Regal on a Raw House show to qualify. Carlito and Santino as a team. Beat d H Smith, David boy Smith Junior and Super Crazy on Raw House Show to qualify. You know, I wrote down to in my notes. As I was watching, I was like, you know, think about

this. There's Carlito, and you think about what he accomplished in his run in we and now he's he comes into the rumble as a legend. He is a legend. Yes, that's what we see, you know, like people cheer for him like he accomplished something they really really do, you know, but he did shit. It's like cheering for Virgil. Honestly, I know, but like God Almighty, I mean, at least here's the thing.

At least Virgil had memorable moments. Yeah. I can't think of anything really, not only memorable moments, but memorable moments where he where he triumphed, triumphed. The only thing that I can tell you off the top of my head that I remember vividly is is him getting beat up by Hulk Hogan. Yeah, WrestleMania twenty two. Yeah, spitting an apple in Piper's face. Yeah, Like that's a signal they were taking him seriously. But that

was like the end of it. I remember nothing else about him. But now he comes out and people go crazy for him, like he just fucking saved the world. Michael's beat Trevor Murdoch, So Murdock getting two bites at the apple. Both times you mentioned already Triple beating Snitzky, Henry and Regal in a gauntlet match to qualify, and Punk beating Chavo Guerrero on a house show in January twenty six to qualify as well. What do you think about

qualifying for the Rumble? Now? They just do I declare, and you can't fill all thirty slots because there's always surprises and you don't know to the day of necessarily. I think there should be matches to qualify and every every year or or you know, maybe not all, maybe not thirty matches, but maybe there are some slots that you need to be qualify, you need to qualify for. I'm fine with that. I like that. Again, I don't know about the whole like all of them. That seems like a

lot to me. Yeah, I mean, even spread out, that seems like a lot. But I think as a I think, you know, for for a good number of them. Absolutely, I think it's a great idea. Yeah, makes it valuable. It makes that, It makes that thing, makes the being in the rumble valuable. It does. So we

see Vince as the illegitimate father of Hornswaggles. So let's let Dylan Postel himself tell us the story of how that came to be, because this is pretty much a show to do it because of that backstage segment and as it reveals, it was supposed to lead to potentially Vince McMahon versus Finley at WrestleMania. That's a dream match we all wanted, which definitely did not happen. Just after SummerSlam, he writes an investigation into online pharmacies prescribing steroids led to ten

ww wrestlers being suspended for violations of the company wellness policy. I can tell you online pharmacies have never distributed steroids, and we distributed them by hand in person among them. As I'm sure you could have guessed, given his run of luck, was Ken Kennedy. He was written off TV that week and suspended for thirty days, just a week before they were scheduled to reveal who McMahon's bastard son was. Remember boss, Oh, yes, it's supposed to

be Kennedy. Kennedy yep. Years later I asked Ken point blank if he was supposed to have been Vince's son. He gave me a sly grin and just said, I don't think so. We both knew what was meant to be him. Ken's luck didn't change over the next couple of years, and after a couple of more injuries in a match well Rand Yorking complained about it being unsafe in the ring, w B let him go. It was a real shame. Ken could have just been a huge star. The entire roster

was brought into ron Green Bay for the big reveal. No one had any idea who it was going to be. I figured it would be just another day at work. But mid afternoon, as rehearsal was about to start, Vince's right hand man, Bruce Pritchard told me to be in backstage. When I got there, the first thing he did was demand my phone. I could tell from his expression he was dead serious, so I handed it over and then he said the words that changed my life your Vince's son, and

change his life. Really he go so far to say that for the worst. Oh all right now he didn't say that, but I did. The big reveal was going to be me. All I could do was stare at him blankly and mumble, why, what do you mean why? Bruce replied, You're going to be in a storyline with a boss, don't question it. Very good for him for saying, well for asking why. I asked him I could have my phone back, and then was told I'd get it back after the show. Yeah, he'll get it back when we say you

get it back. You know why they had to confiscate talents phones like middle school students, Oh, because they're going to text their friends and say hey or text Meltzer nailed it. The office was determined to keep the identity of Vince's son a secret and didn't want any risk of the news getting into the internet. I told Bruce I understood, but if I was going to be featured in the main event on Run My Home State, I wanted to ask my dad, Anne and her mom to be there. His dad, Anne,

who was his girlfriend, and her mom to be there. Bruce agreed to arrange complimentary tickets for them and watched me like a hawk as I texted a lot of texting in this company asking them to come to the show that evening. Then he took my phone away. Sure, I'm sure at the time there was this idea that, hey, you know, texting, it's you know, it's a you know, no one's going to know. These

things are very secretive ways. Yes, I'm getting messages across now, not when they can confiscate texts like Matt Damon texting in his pocket and the right exactly. Bruce agreed to arrange complementary tickets for them and watch me like a hawk as I texted asking them to come to the show that evening. Then he took my phone away again. Meanwhile, the rest of the roster was

in the arena rehearsed. In the final segment of the night, Vince was explaining how a private investigator quote unquote would appear on the screen and read out a series of clues about the identity of his son. Everyone that when something came up that took them out of the running, they would go backstage. They should go backstage. Then everyone was told it would come down to Vince and Hunter in the ring, and that was the end of the rehearsal.

They didn't even clue the roster into the payoff of the angle to avoid spoilers getting out at the rehearsal. As the rehearsal was ending, Bruce told me that he'd get me my bag later, but that I needed to get under the ring immediately. I made my way to ringside and snuck underneath just as everyone else was making their way to the back. Once I was settled, I got on the headset. Kevin Dunn was waiting for me and instructed me

to not speak on the headset unless I was directly spoken to. Around six pms, the crowd was beginning to be let into the building, my bag. What are you a child in a fucking Catholic high school? Pretty much, don't speak unless you've been spoken to. That is exactly the mood. Around six pms, the crowd was beginning to be let in the building. My bag was slid under the ring Apron and Vince checked in to make sure

I was alright. He repeated what Kevin had said, explaining that when they spoke to me, they could block other people from listening in and only he, Kevin, and I would be able to hear each other. They were talking, taking rather every precaution to keep this secret under apps. That night was one of my longer stays under the ring. I'd already been under there for a couple of hours before the show started. Can you imagine having a sit under that ring for like six hours? Miserable? I mean, I

hope they had like food or something. I think they did. I always get like a TV or something too, like, oh, the Dark Match, Yeah, that would help pretty Like a DVD play, like a portal DVD player like I used to have. There's a good one. Yeah, can't have your phone, so right, watch a couple of movies, The Dark Match and Heat Tapings, took another forty five minutes, and I only emerged in the final moments of the last segment of the two hour episode of

Raw. Every twenty to thirty minutes, Vince would check in and ask if I needed anything to eat or drink. I was always appreciated his concern for my comfort under there to get Where're you gonna get it from? They could have something run down and slipped under the ring. Yeah, that gives it away. But there's somebody under the ring. Yeah, you could do it the way people wouldn't notice during a Big Stars entrance or something. I don't

know. I was appreciated his concern for my comfort under there. Later on, he went through his cue my cue with me, then asked if I was changed yet, and I said I wasn't. He asked, how are you going to change under there? I simply said, Vince, I'm a midget. Uh. I'm also I'm not in a I'm on a cocoon, which earned me a signature Vince laugh, You're a midget, Yeah, a lot of it. When I eventually decided to get changed, I opened my

bag and saw the Cruiserweight title belt sitting there. I started a panic wondering whether I should bring it into the ring with me or not. I didn't want to screw up in my first moments of this new high profile role, and I couldn't ask about it because I'd been forbidden from talking to anyone. I thought i'd mention it when Vince checked in next, but when that didn't

happen for a while, I grew increasingly worried. Finally, during a commercial break, I pressed the button to allow me to speak on the headset. Kevin nothing, Kevin still nothing, Kevin, Wow, we told you not to talk. I'm sorry. I just want to know if I should bring the Cruiserweight title out with me. It's about that, he asked soundingly. He couldn't believe I'd ask something so stupid, You fucking idiot. Wait a second. After a while, I heard Kevin's voice again, saying, Vince

his son's asking if he should bring the goddamn belt out with him. He said, Vince's son, Yes, Oh my god, what a Vince the son's asking the Sun's I was relieved to hear Vince say that's a great question. Yes, Dylan, you should bring it out. Because one of the clues is to do with the titles. When the final segment of the night went ahead and the field was thinned out before one final clue was delivered to the new McMahon liked to play the game with Triple Aho's nickname being the game.

The other final contenders cleared out, and Vince and Hunter were left together in a moment made more awkward because Hunter is married to Vince's daughter and the audience knew it. Vince screened that something was wrong and demanded the name of his bastard son. The investigator then explained that the game the son liked to play could be hide and seek, horseshoes, or marbles, and the things were looking up. Not for Vince looking up. Oh my god, it's

such a reality check to go back, It really is. Ah, there's such a fucking nightmare like post Vince becoming an on screen character. It's such a reality check. Yep, oh yes, not for Vince. But as for his son, horn swoggle, the crowder rupped it as my music head. I got in the ring and danced around like a kid at Christmas. Vince looked disgusted, and Hunter and I looked like like all his birthdays had

come at once. The most watched weekly show in the wrestling industry. Went off the year with Hunter pointing and laughing as I hugged Vince mcmaon's left leg. Appearing in the main event segment of Raw felt incredible, And it was made even better off by the fact that I was happening in Green Bay with other people closest to me at that time, right there in the crowd. When I talked to my real dad afterward, I was relieved to hear that

the angle didn't bother him at all. He understood that working with the most powerful man in the entire business, arm Son, he looked like a damn fool working that fake shit. I guess he migrated to Wisconsin. I just don't you know. I don't know you know this, this whole thing that you're in, that you're in. Uh, I just don't know. I don't know where it's going. I don't know what kind of value you see out of it. I don't know what kind of value I see out of

you. Oh, I don't know if I did you call in here anymore? Dylan. I tell you the truth. It was bad enough you were born so small. Now you got to make fun of it and make it all public. I don't hurt Dad. It's one thing you're making an ass out of yourself and a fool out of yourself in front of the entire country. But the fact that you made me fly there to experience it in person, that's just something I can't help it take personally, like I'm supposed to

be proud of you for something I've never been proud. Oh shit, oh shit, I think we've got the title of the chapter. Do you know what my dad said when I was revealed as Vince's bastard son on raw He said, I've never been proud of you. Did you mean? Did he say, I've never been prouder of you? No? No, I've never

once been proud. There's no way in hell I'm proud now. And then Dylan Postel walks into the Starbucks and the Barns and like he always does as part of his routine, and he looks up at the bookshelf, and there it is. I was never proud of you my life as Hornswoggle's father with I'm a cover. It's his dad, and he's got like a Hornswoggle ahead, ripping it in half. Imagine that book comes out and you have no, heads up, Dad, What the fuck? Yeah, that's what I

was asking myself about you. What the fuck? He's a ship. I don't like you anymore, son, I'm not proud of you. How I came to hate my son Hornswoggle? How I came to hate my son Comma Ww's Hornswoggle? Oh god, Oh, so that latte went down rough that day. Yeah, I'll say shit. You see you see Hornswoggle at a convention. Hey, is it true that your dad was going to come up with a book that said, I've never been proud of you? How I came to hate my son Hornswoggle? Imagine like the look on his face,

how I came to hate my son Ww's Hornswoggle. Do you hear about that book coming out? Have you heard about that book? Your dad wrote it. I'm surprised you didn't hear about it. The kind of dad that would sit at a computer and write that book. Can someone tell me how to use one of these goddamn things a computer? Now we know I Fred's tried to learn Windows ninety five to write a book about why you hated Kevin, Why I hated his son. I want you to know that the fund be

dead. Yeah, I wrote a book, I'm a computer What a Copooter the Computer film? Yeah, exactly, that's what I thought. So when my dad went to work the next day, people obviously knew what had happened, because they joked with him, asking, Hey, is there something you need to tell us about Dylan. Oh yeah, yeah, my midget son is somebody else's kid. But I've been acting like it's my kid the whole time, not my son. Well, of course this all didn't amount to

much. It was basically like a plan B after they decided to not go with Kennedy. Mister Kennedy Kennedy. Yeah. After the rumble, he writes in his book, mister McMahon was not pleased that his son had let him down. His punishment, he demanded I become the newest member of the Kiss My Ass Club, which is exactly what it sounded like the person he was attempting to me. It would have to kiss his bare ass on national TV again. Again. Boss were right back in that weird like I can't deal

with it any more. Category. No, it's it's definitely not it's it's it's a lot darker than it used to be. This idea was presented to me with absolutely no tact. Before the show that night, vincently told me you're going to join tonight? Was that? No question, no discussion, no argument. Are you prepared to grace my ainus with your lips? Right? But that's that's what's going to happen. You are going to kiss my ass and you are going to like it and you are going to need it.

Are you prepared for that? Are you prepared for your life to change? Right when you pucker up and kiss my buttocks? We're going to have a little person kiss my buttocks, my sweaty buttocks, sweaty, stinky hind quarters, hind quarters. Keister a deal? Please? I love that word. He's a love that word. Oh my god. The payoff to the segment was going to be that instead of kissing his ass, I was going

to bite it once again. Great ass bite, decent splash. Biting is an ass is a standard part of midget wrestling repertoire, but usually the recipient was one of the women and it was through some clothes. I didn't mind doing it because it got me in a segment on row, but putting my mouth on a sixty year old man's bare ass wasn't on my bucket list. Still, the crowd seemed to enjoy the segment, and I liked one at these people, and I liked it because it was another chance to have the

spotlight on me. Oh that bite led to Vince ordering me to face him on Raw the next week in a rare singles match. First both the match was pretty much just Vince daring me to slap him, and when I finally did, he took off his belt and prepared to deliver some more tough love. Finley got to the ring before the whipping started and stopped Vince getting to me. Vince then got on the microphone told Finley he was interfering with family

business and threatened to fire him. When back down, Vince pointed out that to me that he and Finley weren't the same sort of Irish because Finley was a coward. Vince then threw me down and turned around to find Fit, grinning his gap tooth smile at him. Vince cracked Vince, and the Fit rather cracked Vince in the head with the Shaley immediately raising a goose egg and then sent me up to the top rope. I hit my tadpole splash on Vince and the ref counted three. With that, I became one of the

very few people to pin Vince McMahon. I know it's not real, but it's still a cool piece of trivia. Stone Cold Steve Auston has never pinned Vince McMahon, but Hornswoggle has. Over the previous few weeks, there had been several backstage segments where Finley had been yelling at Vince. I want you to think about what you just fucking I know when you say like these words that I know if you spread to a normal human being, they'd be like, what did you just say? As Shaley? What now? Who that

girl? Name? Is that what you said? Yeah? Right? Over the previous few weeks, there had been several backstage segment where Finley had been yelling at Vince about a secret that I needed to be told, a secret he didn't want to hide anymore. The big reveal we'd been building up to

is that Vince wasn't actually my dad Finley was. I found out years later that senging was supposed to lead to a match at wrestle Mania twenty four, which would have been at the Battle of the Irish between Finley and Vince himself. Oh my god, I can't imagine how much promotion that would have got, But unfortunately it didn't happen. Somewhere along the way during the backstage segments,

Vince apparently changed his mind and Ki bosch his own physical involvement. At the time, I had no idea that fits match with the Boss had been canceled, so I couldn't feel disappointed. In fact, it was completely the opposite. I couldn't believe my luck. When I started wrestling, I never thought i'd be on Raw. I never thought I'd be in a cage match. I definitely never thought i'd be in a one on one match with the most powerful man in the entire industry, and yet there I was about to

have a cage match on Raw against Vince McMahon. Before rehearsals started that night, Fit took me aside and prepared me for the fact that I was going to get roughed up, but the Vince would take care of me financially for my involvement. Later, Vince reiterated that it was going to be a rough night. It's going to be snug tonight, Dylan. He warned me, I'm gonna tell you how you're You're You're gonna hurt and I'm gonna hurt you. So you see this revolver right here, Dylan a plan tonight the cocks

it. Hey, Vince Swag, come on over. You see this? This is ah, this firearm. What I'm gonna do here is I'm showing this to you because I'm actually I'm giving it to you, all right, but I'm it's loaded, fully loaded, just like our pay per view all right, see that there it is. I'm gonna cock it now and I'm gonna hand this to you. If at any time tonight before our match you would rather use this on yourself, feel free either way. It's going to

be a great fucking story and you're going to get destroyed. Oh shit, that's hard core. Well I am on ACW I mean so I am hardcore. So he takes hilacious punishment, getting thrown into the cage like he's getting shut out of a cannon, and then the company gets him a red eye flight back home, told him he wouldn't get smacked down to be off to

sell the injuries. Wednesday, he get another call from the office Tellingham he wouldn't be needed for the following week's tapings and then that's about the end of it. Oh my god. I'll tell you what. We're not going to need you for about three years, and you're going to be without pay for three years. And I don't mean that without pay from US. I mean you're not going to get paid anywhere. I have seen to it that that any business but you attempt to get a job at is going to reject you

based on your height. All right, my goal is achieved that you will not make money for three years. Thanks for playing, Thanks for kissing my ass on television. I save this one for you, boss, Okay, because a big story of this is Jeff Hardy challenging Randy Orton for the ww

Championship. Yes, with the exception of a ladder match against Undertaker on Ron two thousand and three, Jeff Hardy never really had a proper crack at the gold Yeah for good reason too, And it just started to build up after he came back from a series of drug issues and a stint in TNA that really was sort of a disaster Jeff. It sort of started to rewin the confidence of the office that he had put his demons behind him and that he was on a path where they could, you know, invest in him with

the potential title run. And I think it was part of the situation with the revolving doors and whether Seeing would do Rumble or not that they eventually decided to put Jeff Hardy in there against Randy Orton one on one at RUMBLED a challenge for the belt. Of course, as we know, traditionally, rumble is thought to be the big draw itself the match, so you can give

lesser guys world title shots elsewhere in the cart. It's a place to put the belt to give someone a title shot that otherwise, you know, couldn't carry a pay per view, especially as we said before, in an era where they still relied on month to month of pay per view buys to move

the ship. So Jeff gets a shot here, but by the time they get to the show, it was one of those ones that the fans decided, what if, you know, it wasn't like a fat of complay that he was going to lose to Randy Orton here and the fans in the garden try to will it across the finish line. Reportedly, Michael Hayes, who was always a strong supporter of the Hardy's on creative was pushing for Jeff to

actually win the belt on this occasion. No, but Vince was very high on the noment and Randy Orton had even if he lost faith in it just a couple of months later apparently. And so this was a big moment for Jeff where people were starting to entertain the what ifs of him becoming Champion of the World. He did have that match against Dumaga on that Red Hot Royal Rumble two. What year was that was that? After this match against Dumaga on? Uh? No, I don't remember that at all. Let's see,

Well, I know Sina had the Yumaga match on a rumble. Yes he did have. He faced you Manga. I think that was seven seven was it? Where? Where Sena did? I don't know where? Jeff, I think what it was was. Yeah, Hardy had an amazing cage match against Maga on the January seventh, two thousand and eight raw to set up his run for the title. I think he won the Icy Belt to retain the Icy Belt in that match. I see, so it was part of the yeah here, yeah, it was a great match. And so

so here we get to the Rumble and him being a North Carolinian. Mike mouniham over the Charleston Posting Courier picks up the phone and does an interview with Jeff about how big of a moment this coun potentially be. This ran in the paper January twenty seventh, Wow, the day of the pay per view, and uh, I'd love to hear you talk about how excited people were about Jeff Hardy. Jeff Hardy has won a slew of titles over the course

of his career. One major crown, though, has eluded him. It's the most prestigious in the business, and Hardy has the chance to do something he's dreamed about since the days of bouncing around and a makeshift ring in his backyard in Cameron, North Carolina. The high flying, risk taking Hardy challenges Randy Orton for the WWE Heavyweight Championship in one of the featured bouts at Tonight's Royal Rumble pay per view in the most famous fight venue in the country,

Madison Square Garden. He also could become part of history by being only the third man to hold the Intercontinental and WWE heavyweight titles at the same time. Hardy says It's probably the biggest match of his career by far. This is the closest I've ever meant being ww champion and actually being one of the top guys. I've always kind of felt that I was a top guy, though

I'm not in main events all the time. But I've always been confident and true to myself that I'm good at what I do, and I have a ton of people care about me and a lot of really cool fans out there who want to see me be heavy champion. Harty, in fact, has

one of the biggest and most loyal fan bases in the company. He readily admits he doesn't fit the bill as the prototypical WWE heavyweight champion, but it's his daredevil's style approach and hardcore fan following that propel him to the next level. I don't care if I'm just two hundred and twenty five pounds and I don't look like the standard champion in whomever's eyes. Hardy's fans, he says, are the same kind of fan he was growing up and cheering on his

mad idols. There's a special connection there. I've always wanted to have that same kind of bond with my fans. Hardy has been somewhat of a comeback

kid since returning to WWE in August two thousand and six. His career took a sharp downward spiral in March two thousand and three, when, after a series of showing up late for matches, failing drug tests, and refusing to go to rehab, he was released by the company that had hired him as a teenager, had nurtured him, and had watched him steadily progress through the

ranks. Hardy, though, refocused his passions and energy, defeated his personal demons and made a triumphant return to w DA, and he's done it in spectacular fashion. I always knew it would take time, but I always felt i'd get there. The hardest thing for me to get used to is being away from home so much. These international tours are extremely brutal because there's sometimes like twenty days at a time, so it's hard to be consumed by the

product. But that's what I pretty much knew I was going to have to do. Will be where I am now. That's why I am where I am now, because I'm one hundred percent committed to WWE. They know I'm not going to be missing any flights. They know I've got my head right. It's all about wrestling. That's what they want and that's what they need. Hardy remains the daredevil he always has been in the ring, and some

of his recent death defying spots have been highlighting highlight reel gems. One week after executing a breath taking whisper of the Wind off the top of a cage in a raw match with Yumenga, Hardy followed it up with a swantm bomb off a scaffold more than twenty feet high onto a prone orton. Fortunately, a potential tragedy on live television was averted. That definitely was one of the most massive moves. It was really creepy, but it looked amazing. You

really feel proud of yourself when you watch something like that back. Because it's such a risky move, people will say you're crazy, but that's what my character was modeled after things like that. I'm usually pretty comfortable with anything I look at or stand on top of. I feel if I can't do it, I'll be the first to say I can't do it. I'll continue to do things like that and go with my instinct until something goes wrong and I

do get hurt. But other than that, I can't really downplay my instinct because nothing bad has happened to me. That, of course, doesn't mean Hardy is injury free. Far from it. I'd beat up. My ankle's are really weak. A lot of them stems from motocross in the past. I've got a bone chip in my right kneecap now, pain in my elbows and two hernia at the disks, and my neck in my back. I'm not feeling great, but I've been extremely lucky that I've gone this far without

surgery, so I'll just keep knocking or on metal or wood. Success hasn't spoiled Jeff Hardy. He's just happy to be part of the show and says not being at the top of the cart at WrestleMania wouldn't be a disappointment, not at all. I'd feel just as successful as long as I'm a part of WrestleMania. It doesn't take much for me to want to know that I'm popular and needed. I don't have to be in the main event to know that I've done something. We'll put that to the test, buddy. They

were taking it deadly seriously. In the UK a column called Fighting Talk, and the Daily Star on January eighteenth ran this column, We've barely dipped our toe in the bath water of two thousand and eight, but already the temperature should have a health warning for wrestling fans. It's such an exciting time,

in fact, that we might drop the soap. Jeff Hardy, at established tag team genius and pioneered the ladder matches, finally got himself a singles world title shot this weekend next weekend rather at the Royal Rumblin looks like a genuine

Maine event contender. FT can't help wondering if the Carolinian hero viewed as a credible singles champion where it matters in WWE, or is he seen as a top of the card fodder for more generic and larger characters to chew up and the eyes at w B Hardy has to be ticking the boxes in the arenas crowds are going insane for the high flying, imaginative spots that have become Hardy's

trademark. His swanton bomb is evidence done raw is a big weapon and serve to save the big singles match with Orton for the pay per view on its own last Monday Night. Hardy's story is certainly worth a ninety minute feature if he suspected DVD book release off the back of his current push. Whether he wins the title now or not, it's a career born of childhood obsession and huge sacrifice, flowering to live the dream, then the anguish of nearly blowing

it all, and then finally his recent redemption. I really thought you were going to say it's a story of childhood abuse or obesity. I thought it's a story Jeff Hardy's story is one of childhood obesity. I don't know if you knew that. Yeah, man, I was a fat kid, you know, and then I started jumping off buildings and all of a sudden it was okay. And then I started shaving my beard. Man, but I would leave two strips there. Yeah, and I said, hey, you

know what, I think, I'm contracted to myself. Despite Hardy's unique talent, his well documented drug problems as a younger man led to an acrimonious departure from WW under Cloud and a Younger Man. Yeah, it's like three years prior. No, Well, he's got so many redemptions that I guess from which few thought he would emerge. He resurfaced in TNA, but Hardly was treading water and working to earn a repute, earning to return to what he

himself refers to as the bigger stage. The last time f he had a chin wag with the bizarrely bearded one, he told me he sorely misperforming to the larger ww audience, as although he had enjoyed his time in Orlando in Nashville with the competition, his efforts since Vince took him back into the fold have earned him his buzz Bonanza next Sunday in the Garden. And if there's a better feeling in wrestling then Mania, you'd have to travel a long way

to find it. Hardy will always be considered a smaller bloke, however, which is where ftces long term trouble arising he has the hottest property on the short list, excused the pun of suitors to Randy Orton's title in fans eyes, but memories of Raymisterio Junior's title run two years ago spring to mind when you think of the possibility of a Hardy victory. Vince has has to listen to the fans, Yes, but it's pretty clear from the stats that he

doesn't bet to the pot on vertically challenged champions. Perhaps Hardy can expect a short run and a big night out in Orlando at best, because removing the title from Orton at present just seems like the wrong option. Hardy's tail should have the happy ending it deserves. He should get a chance at being the top dog. But unlike Sena edge taker, hbk Orton and Batista on the prowl around Mania, Hardy you might find it a little crowded at the banquet

table. As IC champion, you get the feeling that Jeff Hardy has his insurance policy win or loose Sunday. The nagging doubt remains whether his employers have the balls to put him on top woo. Of course they didn't. He took the fall, he barely registered his significant in the ladder match the money in the bank ladder match at Mania, but by the end of the year, due to several different changes and circumstances, they did put the strap on him. It Army again, Oh God, that was that year. Wasn't

it triple threat match with him? And was it Orton and Trips or seen in Trips? It his Orton and trips. He comes off the top of the swanton and pins. Uh yeah, Orton had given the pedigree. Triple H given the pedigree to Orton, and then Hardy comes off the top swanton that that bounces a triple H out of the ring and then he pins him for the belt. And that title reign didn't last very long at all,

like a month something like that. Yeah, let's see. I remember it was like because it was like, you know, here he is, he gets the belt, fucking Edge and triple H Jeff Hardy Edge and triple H. Yeah was the match and uh Edge, that's right, and yeah, like who fucking cares? Yeah? And also because like it was a year not that I was a fan of him winning it anyway, but it was like a year too late, right, Yeah. Yeah, he turned to two thousand and nine and then he lost the title at the Rumble to Edge

after Hardy's brother Matt interfered right turned on him. We've all wanted to see brother was brother right disaster. This was the first HD show January twenty first, two thousand and eight. Multi Channel News, the travel channel, and

content distributor World Wrestling Entertainment last week announced new high definition initiatives. The WW will finally showcase all of its elbow smashes, body slams, and pins and HD beginning on Monday's January twenty first episode of USA Networks Monday Night, So January twenty one, two thousand and eight. I remember it well, the first HD raw, I don't I had my TV ready to go for it.

I don't remember that at all. All of a sudden, the margins, those black bars on the left and right popped out, and that real estate was being used like it was being used on on other channels. So weird all that at all. Not one bit remember they were going to switch the signal over to like analog wouldn't even work anymore at a certain point. Yep, that I do remember. I've seen videos on YouTube of like the last second of analog broadcast. Wow, it just stops, just ends,

and from that point on only digital signals worked. A sad, sad day one can one can point to. That day is the end of when it used to be better. I will say that, yep. Never forget that analog all your black boxes stop working everything? Oh yeah, man, now'll we have much more control over everything? Yep. It was all very I can't even I coded. Yep. Now it's all it's a it's a nightmare.

I can't even watch, you know, like you can't even watch your own cable provider on another TV. That's right, if it's not on the Wi Fi. Yep. Yeah, they acted like you could bring your cable anywhere you went, and then they just took that promise back. No, you can watch on your phone, go ahead, you just can't watch another TV. It was June twelve, two thousand and nine. The transition was

set back three times, according to this article here. First, December thirty one, twenty eight was supposed to be the last day of analog broadcast oh Man so sad. June twelve, two thousand and nine, all US full power analog TV broadcasts WOW acquired by law to end on that day, and so this being a harbinger of that, along with its original cable and broadcast series Raw and AM Raw. Remember AM Raw, that's right on USA. It was like the Live Wire time slod. Yeah, it was like two

am. Actually it wasn't a It wasn't nine am Sci Fi anal ZCW Extreme terms of Wrestling and the CW's Friday SmackDown. The w W also deliver all of its pay per view shows and HD, beginning with the Journy twenty seventh Royal Rumble event. The company recently completed a twenty million dollar renovation of at Stanford, Connecticut Television studios, along allowing rather the WWT broadcast in HD.

Thanks Ran Learnt all about HD high defining entertainment and for our purposes as we head into our deep dive, HD might as well stand for high Death Toll. Oh you know all things? You know that is true? All things considering, it's kind of a it's a it's a dark, modern modern show because there are quite a few dead. We have six wow, six dead

for a more modern show. A referee, Mickey j Henson, You Manga, Jimmy Snooker, Roddy Piper, Big Daddy V and be under take her rest in peace all indeed, and with that we will deliver on our promise to deep dive the two thousand and eight WWE Royal Rumble. Boss, it's time for the dive in a peacock. Are you ready? I guess it's

time to rumble. We'll be hearing from Michael Buffer speaking of are you ready, damn right, we will be see you on the other side of the break on part two, as TLF does what it does best, gets down to the nitty gritty and deep dives that two thousand and eight Royal rumble on that fucking cast