Ep. 348: 'TNH' Bollea v. Laser Spine (Part 1)

You know, Boss, we spend so much time here on the Lapsed Fan Wrestling podcast and especially this TNH total NonStop Hogan Journey, talking about Hulk Coogan's back. He watches it, he won't turn it to you, he doesn't want it touching the ground. What's going on? He's always angling for a

come back. What he gets things back on track? And as we found, he has his back operated on seemingly weakly during the first year of his ten a run that we just finished chronicling here on the Lapsed Fan A key learning I would submit, if TNH so far has been to mean anything, Hulkogan has to be building towards some sort of physical altercation, right brother, that moment where he chucks off the bandanna and starts winging punches as we sit

back and cringe at the possibility that he may end up simply chipping away at our image of him. Agreed. So a twenty eleven Don's here at TNH and TNA hasn't made much in the way of substantial progress in terms of business growth after the first year of Hogan, with his contract reportedly coming up in October of twenty eleven, right before Bound for Glory that year, it starts all over again, the talk, the discussion, the discourse. Can Hulk

go or will Hulk go? Brother? That sounds to me like the haunting echoes of a courtroom, does it not, or at least a deposition room. This is an especially murky time period for Hulk Hogan. And that's saying something considering you never can tell with this guy who routinely falls in love with versions of stories that aggrandize him and ends up telling them with as much conviction

as you would. I don't know the truth. Uh well, brother, we mean, dude, I mean on television, on television at this point in time at TNA, they're talking like the guys at eight ten, twelve.

I don't know how many back surgeries I am, brother. And in fact, here's a message the Holster himself sent via Twitter video laying on his back in late twenty ten as the plan for him to wrestle at Bound for Glory that year his first Bound for Glory at and TNA began to unwind as we're told that he's undergoing significant back problems and we're told the guy is going under the knife because basically I'm not going or anything, brother, weekly he's

in anything weekly or you know, momentarily. Brother, you listen to this sound as dug up by an enterprising member Steve of the Solar System, because of course Holk's lung since deleted said video as far as I know. And you tell me if he sounds weekly as he's laying in bed for he had another back treat trying to book his way into a big bound for glory in twenty ten. Oh dude, And I'm really excited about giving out the hospital. I've been doing a lot of thinking, man, a lot of crazy

TNA stuff. It is gonna get whack. It's gonna get crazy. We're gonna turn We're not gonna make wrestling how it used to be. We're gonna make wrestling how it should be. Turn the dive up so high. You got a bunch of guys now they can really go and aren't afraid to, you know, do one hundred percent full thrust. Commit me. You know, I can't stand with people go to swing a chair and they put a hand up to block it. Or if you click that link, boss,

I'd like you to just assess the visual condition of the Hulkster. Here is all right, prepares for another back treatment in and around October of twenty ten. All right, let's take a look at him and what I'm really excited about. Giving out the hustle. I've been doing a lot of fun. Look into his eyes. Oh whack, get whack. I think he's about to getting whacked. I'm gonna make wrestling how it used to be. We're gonna make wrestling how it should be. We're gonna turn the dial up so

high? Can really turn the dial up so high? To dial up so high? Is he gonna get soap? Is that what it is? Can't stand people? Yeah? How whack is it? People try to protect their brains when they're taking chair shots In twenty ten, If only people would not put up their hands when they take chair shots, we could win the ratings. Now, what do you see? What do you see? Look into us always? What do you see? Can't even it's horrifying. He's just he's a mess. I see a guy who looks like he's on his last

fucking legs. Belly kind of was he was on his last back As it turns out, I guess we only get one in this life. But I mean he's he's drugged. I mean clearly he's in pain. He may even be uh, you know, have some anesthesia. I mean the guy.

This is what we talked about a couple of episodes ago in TNH where he you know, reportedly was picking up seashells with Jennifer and just the backstarted spasman ah, dude, ah ah brother, Oh God, dude ah oh j Jay dog dude, you can't brother, don't don't touch me, dude, Come on, jan don't fucking touch me, brother. Ah ah my bizels

out, dude. We know, we know ultimately that Hulk Helgan returned and crutches on the Bound for Glory show to turn a heel along with Jeff Hardy and join up with Fortune to create a superheel stable that was dead with Jael Brother, a stable that was dead, of course, by the end of two thousand and ten, Hulk makes himself a bit more rare as two thousand and ten wraps up in two thousand and eleven Dons and we're left to wonder

just what is happening with the hulkster brother. His daughter is filming the second season of her VH one reality show Brookno's Best during this time, in a shoot that turns out to be for the series finale. The last ever episode of Brookno's Best actually revolves a round Hulk negotiating conflicting medical advice and whether he needs to go in for the full on invasive back fusion surgery or if he just needs these infusion dude, Yeah, what are we fusing together? Brother?

Is it fusion? Is it fugi out? Fuse up? What is it fusha? Is it fuge z? Brother? What did you now? Now? Doc? I just need you to know if you're going to operate my back. Brother, we need to sign many documents. Brother, I mean, oh yeah, okay, well we'll talk and he goes into the hallway with Hulks lawyer hiszel. What does that mean? I'm sorry? And what is a? Can you explain to me what is a? What is Does he need this fusion surgery or does he just need the targeted laser procedure?

I need a fizzle surgery that's supposed to be able to reduce the pressure Hulks feeling on his back and give him temporary relief without having to go under such you know, a significant period on the shelf, which obviously what an amount to selling TNA A bill of goods, perhaps in a less charitable way of interpreting circumstances. And so during this filming of Brookno's best, reams of

footage is captured of these consultations between Hulk Hogan and these doctors. But Boss, this is Hulk Hogan we're talking about, this is wrestling, this is reality TV. Like he's wrestling for a cure. What is real advice and what is kfabe? Oh Man, not only are you dealing with the conceits of reality TV, but you're dealing with pro wrestlers on a reality TV show.

Are the doctors working as they consult Hell Coogan on videotape? If the cameras are rolling while they're on video tame attorneys for a spine surgery center that Hulk Coogan went on to sue overwork done during this time period ran into this essential problem of kfabe, this sort of kfabe wall when they deposed brook Hogan in the lawsuit in two thousand and fifteen. In the deposition, Brook Hogan has asked, yes, ma'am, okay, were you I guess I'm going

to ask a question. There were some transcripts from your show where you and Jennifer, would what's the right way to phrase this, trying to press your father to comply with the medical advice he was getting, you know, not getting the gym immediately, not going to WrestleMania. You need to follow your aftercare instructions. Would those be like you testified earlier? Would those be sort of for the TV folks? Brook answers, probably if it was on camera.

Okay, Oh my god, Brooke, I wouldn't believe anything you see on TV, she tells the lawyer, who responds, Okay, And I'm asking you a hypothetical question that if your father said during the show that he was very complimentary of the docks at Laser Spine, would you be surprised to hear that, Britt Brooke, I would not be surprised to hear that my dad said he skydived yesterday. If it was on TV? WHOA Okay, Brooke, because it's TV. Lawyer, Okay, so we just shouldn't believe

anything that we see on TV. Brooke. No, the lawyers in this lawsuit obtained hours of raw footage from the production company that created Brooke knows best they seem to think of it is containing I don't know some evidence perhaps that hul Coogan was full cognizant that the laser spine treatments he was undergoing during this time period at TNA might not do the trick for him. With this line of testimony from brook Hogan about whether you can trust a single thing on that

tape shuts that all down, doesn't it? Yes, it does. Don't be a mark. Don't believe what's on camera. That's right. Still video of this episode of Brookno's Best, the last of the series, is impossible to find anywhere online. We looked, we strained every resource that has always been fail saves for us. Whenever we've needed something here at TLF, we have rung every bell there is to ring every I mean, you know,

can I tell you, honest to God? As I was on the plane too to La, I was spending at least a good two hours hunting trying to find something on my laptop, like just trying to find by going down those kind of deep dark side to where I found weird matches before. Yeah, I'm looking for m thing. Nothing. We defy you to produce a copy of this episode. You cannot, and the exhibit in the court file in this lawsuit that apparently contained all of these hours of footage from shooting Brooknow's

best has been destroyed. At least that's what the courthouse tells us when we inquire. I feel like we're on an episode of sixty minutes. So where can we turn? What can we count on as a reliable account of what happened to Hulkogan as he sought every medical angle possible to try to return to the ring, as he tried to rebuild his life after a financially devastating divorce

and accident settlement in the rings of Total NonStop Action Wrestling. We have to turn boss, as we're so wont to do here at TLF uniquely and in full erection the court papers and a sworn deposition that Hulk Coogan gave in his lawsuit against the Laser Spine Institute in twenty fourteen, a year after his TNA run was over and after he had returned to the w w E as a

legend in residence. If you will, Oh my God, before the sex tape and racism scandal blew that whole thing up, We're about to find out what once again, as part of TNH Total NonStop Hogan TLF enters the courtroom in this highly necessary TNH interlude to lay out the facts brother and Hulk Cogan's own words about how the Hulkster was rebuilt to get back on track, turn the nose up on this thing, and do what little he could in the TNA ring in the Circuit court, Terry g. Balaya, also known as

Hulk Cogan plaintiff versus Leizer Spine Institute LLC. MMMM, We're now in the record. This begins video tape number one in the deposition of Terry Bala in the matter of Terry Gibala Ak Hulkoucin versus Laser Spine Institute LLC. Today's state is Wednesday, ut qourteen. The time is nine o nine am. This deposition has been taken with the Florid and Robert Ki eighth the request of Weinberg,

Wheeler, hudgens Gun and Dial LLLC. The videographer is Hunter Matheson of Magnet Legal Services and the court reporter is jan at Hall of Magnet Legal Services. Will counsel at all parties present state whom they represent m Will Floren and Eric Selestera. We represent mister Bola jay Train representing the defendants. Along with mister Chris Nopick and Kate Spinelli. And will the court reporter please swear the witness m do you swearing affirm that the whole testimony you're about to give will

be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Yes. Thereupon, Terry G. Bola, having first been duly sworn or affirmed, was examined and testified as follows. Mister Bolaya, my name is Jay Train. We met before the deposition. You've been deposed before, sir, Yes, sir, all right, so you know a little bit about what's going to go on here today. We've got this scheduled for two days. My sincere hope is that it doesn't last two full days. I'd like to

get home. You know. That kind of depends on how things go. But I want you to know I do want to get through this as quickly as possible. Having said that, if you need to take a break at any time, either stand up, walk around. You were talking to your returning before going on the record. If you need to talk to your returning as long as a question is not pending, feel free to do that.

Just you know, say you want to take a break, you need to answer a phone call, text message, use the restroom, whatever you need to do. That's fine. That actually, you know, goes for both everybody in the room. If we need a break, we could take a lunch break at any time, if you could. I think you know this, but we've got the court reporter taking all this down. If we can just talk one at a time, I will endeavor not to interrupt your answers.

Please try not to interrupt my questions. And it's not fussing at you, it's just so we can get a clear transcript. Like I said earlier, if you can't hear me, or if I ask you a question that doesn't make any sense, you just tell me to repeat it, rephrase it, and I'll be glad to do that. Anything you want to ask before we get started, or are you ready to go now? I'm good?

All right. You know we're here today to talk about the lawsuit you've filed against our clients, and we're going to be covering a lot of areas. But what I want to start with is kind of where you left LSI Laser Spine Institute. I want to pick up at that point, So I'm going to be asking you some questions about the surgery that you had in December twenty ten with doctor Uribe and kind of going forward, just so you have a little bit of the roadmap for this morning. But let me ask you this

question first. Have you ever looked at the medical records your medical chart from Laser Spine Institute, sat down and looked at the records? Yes? All right? And how? And again let me I guess I should have just said at the beginning. Obviously, when I ask you a question, I'm not asking you to tell me what you and your lawyers talked about. So if I ask you a question that calls for that information, you know, don't relate to me anything you've talked to your lawyers about, any directions you

got from your lawyers. That's privileged. I'm sure your lawyers will object to that, and I'm not asking that. But you may get information from other sources that didn't come from your lawyers, and I am interested and entitled to know that information. So let me ask you this. As you read through the chart, when was it that you looked through your records? Well in

preparing for this deposition? Okay, was there anything that jumped out at you where you looked at it and you said, Hey, that didn't happen that way, that's not right. Anything you can remember reading in the records that sort of made you feel that way. Well, first of all, I don't think you've established he's looked at all the records. I think that's an overbroad question. If you want to show him particular records and then ask him is that right or is that not right? He can do that, and

I'm going to ask him the question. He can answer that question. You're objecting to the forum, that's fine. He's objecting to the forum. That's where the court later on. So you can still answer my question. If he instructs you not to answer the question, then you know I probably misspoke. I would that pretty much a timeline. You're not each a timeline. I don't each individual record. I mean, I understand, I mean,

And my question is the same thing. As you looked through whatever records, whether it's a portion of the chart, specific notes, was there anything that you saw that you just disagreed with, You say that didn't happen. Nothing that I disagreed with or said it didn't happen. Okay, was there any other documents that you're talking about the timeline, right, yeah, the timeline. There was nothing that I didn't I didn't disagree with, or saw that

didn't happen. Oh oh yeah, yeah, the timeline. You know, there was nothing that I didn't I didn't disagree with, or saw that that didn't happen. See. I just want to make sure there's not any confusion. He hasn't testified that he's looked at records. He looked at a timeline prepared by our office, which is work product, but that's different from him

looking at the records. I don't want there to be any confusion about I think you need to establish if he's actually looked at medical records themselves, as opposed to a timeline of events. Well, we can go back. My question was medical records and chart. I didn't say the word timeline. I think you said the word timeline. He said the word timeline. Yeah, but then I saw I misspoke. It wasn't medical records, it was a timeline. Well that's fine. You have not looked at the actual records that

doctor Gruber signed or doctor Breski signed. You've looked at a timeline that was prepared by your lawyers. Yaha, said I misspoke. It wasn't medical records. It was a timeline, and that's fine. We all do that. And if you need at any point to correct anything you say on the record, again, there's no warries in that, all right. So you looked at a timeline. Was there anything else you looked at and getting ready for today? Any other documents or pleadings? No? All right? Tell me.

We've got a lot of your records, mister Balaia, and I can assure you I'm not going to go through all the records that we've obtained from other treating physicians, but I do have some questions about some of the folks you've treated with. And there's a fellow named doctor Unger. Do you know doctor Unger? Yes? I do. Where is he located? He's in Chino, California? All right? And is he what I might call a primary care doctor? What you might call? Yeah, well, I don't

know what you call? All right? What do you consider doctor Hunger? What type of doctor is doctor Hunger? Oh? Well, he's a urologist. Okay? And are you still treating with him? Do you still see him occasionally? No? Okay? How long did you treat with doctor Hunger?

Oh? Gosh? I don't recall it was during It was during the time of my first marriage when I kept the residents in California, Okay, And I met him through the wrestling commission, and he offered services as a family doctor, you know, above and beyond what he did with wrestling. It looks like from my records, you did see him occasionally during this sort of relevant time period. You know. When I say relevant time period, I'm talking about the two thousand and nine to two eleven time period when you

were treating with our clients. It seems like you went to see doctor Hunger once or twice. Is that your recollection as well? Yes, it is. And again I'm just asking a general question here, But did you go to see him for specific reasons or would it be like you're in California for or you're in California for family stuff and you need to go see a doctor and you happened in to see him. Did you understand the difference of my

question. Yeah, I understand. He was all the above. Okay, Actually you know it was actually, you know, more than all the above. It was a situation where when I was in California, he would be the doctor I would consult with it, there was anything any, any medical situations that I needed to talk to him about. He also I became friends with his family, so we weren't doing a lot of precision driving at that

time and going down towards Irwindale, California. Okay, and you know he was in Root or in that same area, you know, so I would see him, you know, and his family on a personal note. You know, his daughter had a singing career, so I would stop in. So you're performing, you know, just medical and personal. Okay. Yeah, well you said you didn't see him anymore. Is that because you don't go to California much anymore? Yeah, I got divorced and I don't keep

a residence out there. Okay. You know, while I was rushing full time, I would you know, California was the West Coast, was a hotbed so to speak, Well not a hotbed, dude, but it was a place where Yeah, but it was a place where we could visit once in a while. So whenever I wrestled in California, he was the commissioned doctor that worked the West Coast. Okay, you two didn't have any kind of falling out, No, no, no, you weren't upset with his

care or anything. It was just one of those things circumstance. All right, let me I'm going to mark as exhibit one mister Blair record from his doctor Runger's office, and I've got a copy for your attorneys Exhibit one mark for identification. Are you asking him with questions about this record? Yes, I'm fixing my microphone. I want you to read it first before he asks you. My questions are pretty limited to that first paragraph. You can read

the whole thing if you want to. Mark. This is number seventeen. Now mark this is number one. It's marked. Okay, first off, Okay, Look, it looks like he came to your home in bel Air, Florida. Is that right? Yes, sir? Okay, And you

report it to him that you or let me ask you this. Did you report to him at that point that you had extensive dj D and lumbar stenosis extending from c spine down to your coccyx or do you know whether he got that from another medical record or some other source, or did you tell him that? Yeah, I didn't tell him, so I have no idea if he got it or if he got it from another medical source. Okay, and then he goes on that you have been evaluated by multiple specialists, including

spine docks who specialize in laser surgery. Again, is that something you would have told him or would he have obtained that information or do you know, um, you know the only laser spine docks that he probably would have no, no, no, known for me would have been laser spine Okay. Yeah, I don't know where you got the other information you're talking about. You know there were there were several doctors, Okay. Then it goes on

and one from Montreal who performed his surgery. I think that's surgery six weeks ago. Who is that physician? Do you know who he's talking about there? Breski? Okay, so that's not somebody different, No, that would be some lady laser spine okay. And then further down in the note, he well, he writes this, he described for me, and I assume

he's speaking about you. He described from me several injuries which he has suffered from recently, including a dislocated right hip at the hands of Ric Flair while wrestling in Australia three months ago. Do you recall telling him generally about your wrestling Ric Flair in Australia back in two thousand and ten. No, I don't remember telling him about wrestling, Rick, did you wrestle Ric Flair in Australia in two thousand and ten? Yes? I did. Well, remember

the question is in two thousand and ten? Ten? Did you wrestle Ric Flair in Australia in two thousand and ten? Well, I'm not sure if it's two ten? Okay, yeah, but there was an Australia Yeah, but there was an Australian tour. I was wrestled, all right. I think you'll find the Australia tour was oh nine. He described for me several injuries, including a dislocated right hip. What other injuries do you recall describing for him? Or if you don't recall, what other injuries do you recall

receiving at the hands of Ric Flair while you wrestled in Australia. I don't recall. We'll read the question again to you. I'm sorry. Sure if you read this sentence, it says he described for me several injuries which he has suffered recently, including a dislocated right hip at the hands of Ric Flair. Let me ask you this do you remember suffering a dislocated right hip at the hands of Ric Flair while wrestling in Australia. Well, I remember hurting

my right hip. Okay, are you saying it was not dislocated or it could have been dislocated? You just can't remember. Well, I don't know. I was in the ring with Rick and it wasn't the standard good equipment like the WWE has. Uh, there's there's a company in America called the w you know. I like, so there's a company in America called the WWE, and they've got standard of you know, good ring equipment. They were This tour was in Australia and I have no idea where those rings came

from. But every different night he was a boxing ring or like an old ring. I remember walking to the ring with Rick Flair. Instead of the boards being in place, there was like no board. There was a hole and I stepped in the hole and I felt my leg going pop and pop out. Okay, you know it was like a thump. You know. If I told him it was dislocated, I don't remember, but whatever it was, it felt like a clunk and it clunked back. Continue. Oh, well, you know, so I mean, you know, Rick Flair

didn't hurt me. It was actually, you know, walking to the ring, but it was during the match. Do you remember what other injuries you sustained during those matches in Australia? I mean, if you look at his record, he says several injuries. Do you have any idea what he's talking about? No, I don't have a clue, okay to you. And again, what I'm really getting at is and if you don't remember, that's completely fine, as your lawyers have told you, you can answer yes or

no or I don't know to any question. Yes, do you remember receiving any injuries during that tour other than this injured hip? Or are you telling me I didn't suffer any other injuries? I don't know why that note is in there. Do you understand, Yeah, I understand. I'm just trying to explain it to you. You know, I wasn't injured in any other way during the tour other than that, you know. And on top of that, you have to understand, whatever his name is, doctor Hunger is

a wrestling fan. So when you, for instance, when you take a Razor brother, so you know, for instance, you know, when you take a razorblade and cut your head with a razorblade, which is standard protocol, like lacing your boots up. He thinks that's an injury because he doesn't No, okay, he he doesn't understand you. He's a fan's not he doesn't know the insigns of the business I got you. So if he sees a razor blade mark on your head from six weeks ago, he says,

oh my gosh, you know where'd you get that injury? Brother? That's an injury. Yeah, yeah, And every night I was with Flair, you know, we we were bleeding every night. Okay, so that could be a possibility. You know, I don't know if he thinks that's an injury. So when he writes in here, he meaning Ballea Terry described for me several injuries. You don't think you describe for him several injuries as best as you can recall sitting here today. No, I don't remember ever whining

complained to him about anything. Okay, do you remember this visit back in July of twenty ten when you were at your home and he came to see you. I mean, I know it's four years ago. No, I don't you know. I mean he speaks at a lot of different conferences, and one of the places he speaks at a lot, he's in Orlando, so he's dropped by the house a couple of times. You're the old house. So I don't remember that visit. Okay, that was kind of my

next question. It wouldn't be a situation where you would call him and say, hey, I need to see you. No, no, okay, he you know, even when I was in California, up in Westlake, every once in a while he would speak in that area and he'd dropped by the whole family. So the only time he ever came to my house was kind of like if he was in the area. So anything medical I would go to him or seem at the arenas usually because he was the commission doctor

down at the very bottom. Mister BALAA, there's a it's called a plan, but it's got a P and then a one, two, three, four four is we'll plan to meet with him again in three weeks when he comes to LA for some meetings. Do you remember whether you saw doctor Unger again three weeks later when you were in LA for some meetings. No, I don't remember. Was the Australia tour? Was that that was not strike? That was the Australia tour set up by you or set up by TNA

or some kind of conjunction between you and TNA. No, just yourself? No, who set it up? Well, guy named Eric Bischoff, did you have any role at all in planning the tour or coming up with the idea or recruiting you know, Rick Flair and Brutus Beefcake and Brian Nobbs and the other folks who went on the tour Were you involved in recruiting those folks or was it all mister Bischoff? Well, I'm sure I made some phone

calls for the talent. You had a better rapport with the talent than Eric did, so on that level I don't recall, but I'm sure I probably did. Those guys are personal friends of mine. Your lawyer jumped in and said, the Australia tour was two thousand and nine. Is that your recollection as well? And to the best of my recollection? Yes, I mean the reason I asked twenty ten is you can see mister Unger. Doctor Unger saw you in July of twenty ten, and then you apparently told him or

noted that you were in Australia three months ago. Is it possible you went back to Australia in two thousand and ten or well, do you think that's just incorrect that there was only one Australia tour in two thousand and nine and there was no Australia tour in two thousand and ten. Well, there was only one tour, you know, we only went once. Did you wrestle in Australia in two thousand and ten? Do you think, well, whatever year was, the tour went for four days. I wrestled. That was

the only time. Yes, okay, And I think you were in Sydney, in Brisbane in a couple of other places. Yeah. Yeah. Did you wrestle anyone else other than Flair during that tour? No? So back to back to this, how did this idea to do a tour in two thousand and nine? Get? How did it Hatch who came up with the idea? And that's my recollection. Eric. Do you know approximately when the first he first approached you with the idea of going to Australia and doing a

tour? No, I don't. Do you think it was as far back as two thousand and eight? Or do you think this sort of the discussion started two thousand and nine. Gosh, it's possible, you know, two thousand and eight is a possibility, I think if I'm looking at the documents right, and we'll talk about some of these specifically. But does the name Condon CO O N D O N Sport and Entertainment. Does that mean anything to you? Condon? Well, I think I think the promoter's name is

Michael Condon. It might not be. It might not be his last name, but I think it was Condon. It would make sense that's his company. But I know the guy's first name, um was Michael, and I heard his last a couple of times. But you know, it sounds familiar, all right. Do you know whether Michael approached Eric about this possible tour or whether Eric approached Michael, or do you have any knowledge about all of that? I'm not sure, Okay, But your testimony here for the jury

is that it was not initially your idea to make an Australia tour. No. No, do you recall whether you had to be examined or consult with any physician in Australia while you were on the tour in twenty and ten. No, I don't recall that two thousand and nine. Excuse me, No, I don't recall. Okay, do you recall whether you spoke to any of And when I say doctors at LSI, can you and I just agree that I'm talking about doctor Preski, doctor Gruber, doctor Scott and doctor Saint

Louis. Do you know those four gentlemen? Yes? Okay. When I say the doctors at LSI, that's who I'm referring to, just kind of rather than ask individually. Will go through this a little bit quicker if I say the physicians at LSI, the doctors at LSI, do you remember talking to any of them and asking them whether they would permit you to go to Australia? Meaning was that against your restrictions, your postoperative instructions, or whether

they felt that was something you could do. Did you have any discussion with them? Oh? Yes, I did. You know. I don't recall exactly of the doctor's words, you know, but it wouldn't have been doctor Barewski because I didn't meet him until after the third back surgery. But I did talk to them, okay, And do you remember what kind of conversations you had with the other physicians, either Scott or Saint Louis or Gruber about

your Australia tour. Yeah, I remember being worried because the Australia tour was booked and all of a sudden my back was went out on me again and I got to the point where I couldn't function, and I had another laser spine procedure done. And the Australia tour was a couple of weeks after that, and I didn't know if I was going to have to cancel it or not, but they said I would be fine as long as I just took it easy and then do anything crazy that would I would you know that I

would be completely fine going over there. And when you say they told you don't do anything crazy, what did that mean? Is that your words or is that their words? No, it is their words, you know. And I explained to them the standard Hulk Hogan match, you know, I mean, it's not wrestling anyway, it's entertainment, you know, So wrestling is you know, wrestling is college wrestling or amateur wrestling or this is an entertainment. And so they said, you know, don't do any supplexes or

high falls or anything that would put your back in jeopardy. They just said, take it easy, you know, And I said, basically, I said, the whole Coogan match involves ripping the shirt, doing the ear, a couple of punches, you know, going down to the mat and crawling around and acting like I'm hurt, you know, and then the Superman hulk up, you know, three three big punches and a foot to the face. And they said that's easy, you know. They didn't say it's easy.

They said that's fine. As long as you don't do it in crazy in there, you should be okay. And would you have been willing to cancel the Australia tour if they had told you, you know, your back is so bad you can't fly to Australia, or you shouldn't even be doing the ear jumping around, you really need bed rest. Were you prepared to cancel the tour? Well? And if they had said that, you know that you're risking your health, you know. And we just did a surgery

a couple of weeks ago. And if they had said you can't go, I wouldn't have win. Would you have suffered? What would have happened to you financially? If you had canceled the tour. Was there any type of penalty clause in your contract where you would have had to pay some kind of damages to the promoter if you would cancel the tour? If you know, I don't recall what was in the contract, but usually there is an outclause and you know, act of God or accident, or reschedule the tour.

I mean, you know, I know Brittany Spears was there and she canceled a bunch of dates and came back. You know, she was a day ahead of me everywhere. You know, she canceled a bunch of dates because she was sick and came back. So I'm sure there had to be something in the contract. I don't remember it, but usually there's an outclause. You know, if there's an act of God or you're hurt, you can reschedule. Okay. Do you remember generally how much you were paid for that

tour? No? I don't. You can't even estimate a ballpark for us. The only espiant I can tell you is I got paid half of what I was supposed to be paid. I think from looking through some of the documents that some group that was supposed to pay you went bankrupt and there was some Scott Hervey got involved in that. Is that sort of your recollection? Well, I mean Eric set the deal up, you know, and he

explained to me that all the money was an escrow. You know, I assumed here, you know, from when I understand you know, half the money was an escrow over there, you know when we left, you know, Eric seemed to be friends with whoever the promoter was, you know, Mike, and when he came back here, the money was never sent from escrow. The money stayed there while you came back. Yeah, the money stayed there is you know. Scott Hervey, you know, hired lawyers and

fought it and fought and finally we settled. When you got back from Australia, were you in the same sort of condition from a spine perspective as you were when you left for Australia? Wasn't any better? Wasn't any worse? No, you know, it seemed to me that the same protocols as all the other surgeries. You know, it seemed to be amazing at first, and then as time went on, things would start to happen, and sometimes

it would be a couple of weeks before I would notice it. Other times it would be specific where you know, it would last a little longer. Doctor Kruber would the additional medicine in my back and it would last. But it was usually pretty much, you know, there was a pattern, you know, after the surgery the first two days I felt great, and sometimes a week after, you know, we could feel a little tingle, or when i'd sit, i'd feel a little burn, you know. Then there

were that that was the first thing I'd feel. Yeah, but when you know, it kind of changed time, Laise, from a couple of weeks, maybe a month or so before I started getting in troll again, you know, but when I came back from Australia, it felt just about the same, you know, Yeah, as it did as it always did. Did you fly direct there? It seems like a dumb question, but it's a long flight. Did you fly director? Did you connect to any airports?

Yeah? I don't remember all right. I think your contract called for you to get a first class seat or a business class seat. You know, remember sitting in coach for that flight? Do you No? I wasn't in coach. There was some testimony from some of your clients, our clients about the visit that you took to their office before you went to Australia and

you were given a prescription for a back brace. Do you remember being given not the standard back brace that you received at LSI, but a prescription for a different kind of brace because you were going to be taking this long flight to Australia. Does that Do you have that in your memory at all? I remember having two braces, okay, from Laser Spine Laser Spine, the same brace. Did you take one to Australia with you? Do you remember? I don't recall, Okay, you're not saying you did or didn't.

You may have. You may have worn one on the flight over. You just don't remember. I just don't recall who did you fly over there with? With Jennifer with you? Yes? Okay? And then was Eric with you? Or did he go separate? I don't remember. Do you remember anyone else going with you in Jennifer? No, I don't, okay. All the rest of us live in different places, so I don't remember where

they flew in from. When you say that you received two or you remember two braces from LSI, do you remember whether you had to actually go to a medical product or device store or company or a pharmacy to get a brace as supposed to just being given one at the LSI offices. No, I don't recall. Okay, yeah, I don't recall going anywhere with LSI. I don't remember them they were telling me to go anywhere to pick up equipment. Okay, if I did, I don't remember that. And are you

well? Have you have you read the depositions of any of our clients, either doctor Gruber or doctor Scott, doctor Bretzky, doctor St. Louis, or look at their videos? No, have you read any summaries their depositions at all? Nope? When you would go to these visits, I have referenced to visit that we talked about with one of your lawyers with I think it was doctor Saint Louis. We talked about this visit in two thousand and

nine where there was a discussion of a back brace. Was it your practice to tell the doctors at LSI exactly what was going on with you and to be honest and truthful and as accurate as you could when you were reporting your

medical condition to those doctors? Repeat the question. I'm sorry, sure I didn't understand you, when you would go to see the doctors at Laser Spine Institute, would you tell them as honestly as you could, as truthfully as you could, as accurately as you could, what your medical condition was, what your pain complaints were, what your symptoms were, things like that. Were you being honest with them? Yes? All right? Talking about this

backbrace? If the record shows that there was a discussion with you about a back brace that they prescribed for you for this long flight to Australia to help support your back when you went to Australia, I mean, are you telling us that that didn't happen or are you just saying I just don't remember talking about it. It's been four or five years. I just don't have any memory of that. What question are you asking me to Well, it's two

questions in one. What I'm trying to know is are you saying that conversation didn't happen. Well, if you've got a record, you need to show it to him. No, I don't. If your questions are referring to some record, you need to show it to him. No, I don't just tell me which conversation you're talking about. I don't need to show him a record. If you can object to the form, object I can ask him a question on cross If he doesn't remember, he just has to say

he doesn't remember. Well, you've asked some questions that have to do with a record. Then you've asked other questions and have to do about conversations with one of his lawyers, and you've asked questions about whether he remembers. The whole thing is confusing. But if you have a record, if you're going to ask him about a record, you need to show it to him. No, I don't, and I object to form. The record you're referring to has no mention of Australia in it, as well as a backbrace given

to him for that purpose. Mister Balaya, Yes, do you recall a conversation with the physicians at LSI before you went to Australia about a back brace and then prescribing you a back brace to support your back on your flight to Australia. I don't recall a conversation about a back brace, okay, And I don't recall them prescribing a back brace for the trip to Australia, you

know, but I know they prescribe a back brace for me. You know, I end up getting two of the same back braces because the first one broke. And when you say, sir, that you don't recall my questions. Are you saying I don't recall if possibly could have taken place, I just don't remember because of the time, Or are you saying I don't recall that ever happening and it didn't happen. There's two ways you can take it. Yeah, I don't recall the time frame, if it was before or

after Australia. I don't recall when the back brace was prescribed, you know, but I do recall them giving me a back brace or prescribing it. You know. I ended up following their instructions with a back brace, and then it broke and I had and how do you get another one? Okay? And in terms of whether you wore a back brace during the flight to Australia, is it your testimony that you might have, but you just you don't remember it because that was five years ago. I don't recall if I

had a back brace when I went to Australia or not. Okay. As an example, sir, when you went to see doctor Breski, for those procedures in two thousand and ten. As we sit here today and again I know it's what four years later, do you have a picture in your mind's eye of those visits? Do you recall going to LSI and having those procedures done by doctor Preski. I don't remember. I don't recall all of them in detail, but I do remember one in detail, and then some of

the visits after that would not so much detail. Okay, do you recall generally that you would have postoperative visits after your procedures with doctor Breski. You would come in maybe a day later or a couple days later, and be seen for a postop visit. Do you remember those I'm not asking you if you remember those visits specifically, but if you remember generally that that's what would happen, that you would come in for postoperative visits. I remember seeing him

after the operations, yes, okay. Would that be the same day after the operation? Would that be a day or a few days afterwards or both? Usually it'd be a day or two after when I would go back from for a check up with any of the doctor. Okay, which doctor did you name? Barreski? Did you also an occasion see what we might call a para professional, a nurse practitioner, a nurse on those post operative visits. Do you remember that at all? I remember the day I met Brewski.

Saint Louis had come into the room and this was, you know, this was after the third back surgery and told me that they couldn't do anything else for me. And there was a nurse that came in and Saint Louis was busy, he had to leave. But then when he said they couldn't do anything else for me, I remember nurse being there to put the band aids back on my back, but I don't remember. I remember that, yea. But then last the day I met Barreski, and I remember in

detailed medium that day. Then after you, he was pretty much the same. After the operation, it would be, you know, come back a couple of days later, you know, the nurse would take the band aids off me, the doctor would come in and look at me, and Brewski would leave and they put the band aids on. It was pretty much the same protocols. Jennifer, with you that first day you met with and I think you've called him doctor Z. Do you went for from him? His

Doctor Z or Doctor Rescue. Either way, it's fine. Yeah, well you've called him doctor Z before. That's what he told me to call him. Brother. Okay, it was Jennifer with you when you first met Doctor Z. Yes, she was. You know, we were very excited the first day we met him. Why is that We just got some very bad news from Saint Louis after the third surgery and he said he couldn't help us anymore. And we were leaving and ran in Doctors Z in the hallway and

he goes, oh my gosh, Hulk Coogan. You know, he said a load to me. He was a fan, you know, and he asked me what I was doing there, and I said, well, you know, I'm leaving now because I've had three surgeries and they can't do anything for me. And he goes, whoa wait a minute, let me let

me talk to you for a minute. So he got the films and put the films up and he told Jennifer and I mean, you know, they're on the spot, and that he had just done a priest in Montreal with the same situation as my back, that he could that he could fix me. And this was right after Saint Louis had had to mean that he couldn't do anything else for me. So we were all excited, you know, because he seemed really positive, and he looked young, and he was yo,

and he looked young, and he was tan. You know, he just seemed to have a real he guess, have a real good energy about him. And he goes you know, he told me in Jennifer he could fix me when he looked at my back, and when we were all excited, you know, because you know, we had already been through three surgeries that didn't work. Do you know when that interaction with doctor Z was approximately No, I don't recall. Let me jump back and ask you again about

Jeff Unger. We looked at his note a little earlier. Did you ever, do you recall any conversations you had with doctor Runger about the procedures you had at LSI. Do you remember any specifics of any conversations. No, I don't recall specifics. Do you recall anything doctor Runger said about the procedures that had been done for you at LSI? And I don't recall he never offered any opinions to you about what the procedures you had at LSI. I

don't recall if he did. Let's talk about and I pronounced his name wrong, is it doctor Kapus? Yes, talk about him for a second. We've got some records from him and mine. Maybe offer give me, but it seems like your first visit with Capus was in August twenty ten. Do you ever see him before that time? Do you know? Off? And I recall? All right? His office is known as Clearwater Pain Management? Is that right? Yes? How did you get to doctor Kiphas's office?

Meaning? Did somebody refer you? Yeah, the same the same man that referred me to Laser Spine Todd, Steve Chapman, Steve Okay, he referred me to doctor Carlfas. I still friends with Steve Chapman, Yeah, okay. Do you socialize with he and his family at all? Still? Occasionally? Yeah? Okay if they invite us down. He's got a place in Key West, they invite us down there to hang out with him, you know down there is that didn't you go down there sometime before your surgery with

at LSI with Doctor Saint Louis? Do you recall that? Oh? I'm sure I did. Yeah, usually go down every year with him down there. When was the last There was a question did he go down to Key West or did he go down with doctor Saint Louis? The question was vague. Did you Were you ever in Key West with doctor Saint Louis at the invitation of mister Chapman prior to starting your surgeries at LSI, not that I

can recall. Have you since your surgeries at LSI during the time you were first seen at LSI in February of two thousand and nine up until the present, were you ever in Key West at the invitation of Steve Chapman along with doctor Saint Louis? And I'm all that I can recall? All right, when was the last time you went to Key West at the invitation of Steve Chapman. You're the best of my recollection, Probably a year and a half,

two years ago he invited. You know, He's invite us down several times, as recently as a couple of months ago, and I was busy, I couldn't go. Is mister Chapman to your knowledge, social acquaintances, friends with, or neighbors with any of the defendants you've sued in this case, Doctor Saint Louis, doctor Scott doctor c to your knowledge. To my knowledge, I think he's friends with Saint Louis because I lived on the street. Chapman lived next to me, and Saint Louis lived two houses down,

So I think Steve knew him before I ever knew him. Do you know whether mister Chapman his friends, neighbors, business associates with any of the board of directors or any of the principles at Laser Spine Institute, like mister Basham, people like that. Do you know whether that's the case or not? Could you repeat the question? Yeah? Do you know whether he's social friends, acquaintances with any of the folks at Laser Spine other than the doctors we've

talked about. Yeah, you know he's friends with Bob Basham is a good friend. Yeah, they own a couple of houses together. Okay, on the beach, mister Bella, where do you live now? Where is your primary residence in North Clearwater Beach? Since I'm from Atlanta and I don't know the area, forgive me, but I think the house you sold that you lived in with Nick and Linda and Brooke and was you know, part of the Hogan Knows Best series that was in the bell Air section, is that

right, or the bell Air neighborhood. Well, there were two houses, you know, there was a beach house and then there was one in bel Air, Okay, And we sold both of them. And both those houses were used for filming for Hogan knows best, you know. And there was also a house in Miami that was used for filming. And so when you say North Clearwater Beach, is that the area that you live in? Now that's how you describe it. Yes, sir, there's a road called El

Dorado. You know, once you can get on the beach. Clearwater is basically an island, and there's two little bridges to get there, sand Key and Clearwater, you know. And then when you head north, the only road that takes you north to the end of the island is Mandalay. But if you go over one street that's called El Dorado. You know, Mandali goes down the middle and El Dorado goes down the beach front. So I live the end of El Dorado. Do you live in kind of a gated

community or anything or just no? All right? Did you build that house or did you buy it? No? I didn't build it. And Jennifer lives with you. Yes, anybody else living at the house right now? Okay, So Steve, does he still live over in bel Air to your knowledge? You know, he's split between bel Air and Nashville. You know, his wife and kids moved to Nashville, and he told me during the

week he lives at the Willowdell House in bel Air. You know, he commutes every weekend to see his family in Nashville because he's holding down the DuPont Registry or whatever he's doing here. He's the same job. All right. Do you do you have any other homes you own in any other places other than the North clear Water Beach home? No? Okay? Is your daughter up in Nashville these days? No? She's there today? Yuh? Okay? Does she live in Nashville? No? Does she still live? Where

does she live these days? Los Angeles? What about Nick? Los Angeles? Why did Steve Chapman refer you to doctor Kephis in August of two and ten? Do you remember the specifics of that? What conditions would have prompted you or he to suggest doctor Kephis to you? If you know, well, Steph and I were talking and he knew I was just still in a crazy amount of pain after the surgeries and laser spine, I couldn't get out

of pain. And he said, you know that he knew the best pain doctor, you know, management doctor around, and he referred me to Calopus and his cardiologists Philips. You know, he was trying to help me out. And so when you said pain and you said the surgeries, I assume you're meaning you're back. Yes, okay, So you went to see doctor Kephis for an evaluation to help with your back pain sometime in two thousand and ten, at the suggestion of mister Chapman. Is that correct? Yes?

And I think you stated on the record earlier mister Chapman was actually the one who referred you to laser spine or gave you the idea about laser spine, right, yes, And again, I'm trying to get through a lot of this sort of quickly. But when you started seeing doctor Kaphis, did you talk to him about the procedures you had at laser spine, you know, in more detail than just hey doc, I've had six back surgeries and I'm

still in pain, can you help me? Did you actually tell him here was what they did for me, Here's what doctor brescue did here is what doctor I mean? You know, was it a general discussion or a specific discussion? If you remember? I brought him up to speed as best I could remember with the back surgeries and the epidurals and the facet and the radio frequencies. Yeah, I just let them know that, you know, even with the drugs and stuff they were giving me, I couldn't sleep, couldn't

sit, couldn't walk, couldn't stand. It was worse than ever. Did you bring any of your records from Laser Spine to doctor Kaphis when you met with doctor Kaphis initially? I don't remember. I don't recall the first day bringing records in. Okay, did doctor Kephis ever have any comments, opinion statements to you about what the folks at Laser Spine did for you or didn't do for you? Did he say one way or the other? I don't

recall. And you know you've sort of if we assume the chart is correct, and I know you know we're not in doctor Kapus's office, but if we assume that was in August two thousand and ten, visit you know, you just told us you came in and you could not sit, walk,

or stand. Had your condition worsened by that time in August? Or are you telling us in this jury that basically anytime you had a procedure at laser spine it was amazing for a little while, and then it got to the point where you couldn't sit, walk or stand or did it really just get really bad in August of two thousand and ten and that's when you needed pain management? Yeah, it got you know, it was the same protocol every

time. Uh yeah, it's good for a while. Then there was a few little tweaks and things that hurt, you know, and then it got bad. And it seems like after every procedure it got more intense, you know, and the getting bad part got more intense, to the point where I want to see I want to see Kival every even to late get up and lay face down on a table, I'll just be screaming. And I couldn't even lay down. I'm a stomach for him to look at my back,

you know. He got to the point where, you know, if I was to even move my wrist over it would make my back hurt. So it got it was the same. It was fine at first, then it got a few tweeks. Then it got worse. Every time after the surgery, the worst part got more intense, to the point where it was unbearable. You know, when I want to see Caliph and I told him

I'd rather be dead than go through this. Did anything happen to you around that time July August of twenty ten that you would call that maybe triggered something to put you in a condition where you couldn't even lay down for him and

let him look at your back without you screaming. You know. The only thing that happened were the last three surgeries by Burrescue, Okay, And it seemed like it seemed like every time I'd go into surgery with Burrescue, I was in more pain that I met in the time before going into surgery. It was kind of like it was almost like, I don't I don't know the time frame, but I almost felt like my body wasn't recovered before I

was getting cut on again. Okay. It was just a weird feeling that I couldn't get back, you know, back up to snuff or back on my feet or back to ground zero. Dude, it kept getting worse, you know, mister Balat I'm going to do this a lot because that's just how my brain works. And I forgot to ask a question that I wanted to ask you. How long were you in Australia for that tour? Approximately? Was it a couple of weeks? Was it a month? Do you

remember? No? I think I think we wrestled four days, maybe five days, And I know he came in early for a press conference and the day after we left, so uh, you know, so I was definitely not there more than a week. Okay. So now it's August of two thousand and ten. You're in doctor Kaphus's office, and I know from looking at the records that he gave you some injections as well. Isn't that true?

Is that what you remember? Yeah? I don't remember on August twenty and ten, but over the time I worked with him, he injected my back several times. Okay, And just so we get a timeline that will help this jury kind of understand because you've got an extensive medical history. But August is when you start seeing doctor Kaphus you already told us, and then December is when you have the fusion surgery two ten. Does that seem right

to you the timeframe. You know there was another surgery in between. I'm a little confused on the timelines. There was a surgery in between, a spinal cord stimulator was putting my back and recommended by confind okay, but the fusion surgery by doctor Gibe was in December of two thou ten, right, as best you can recollect. I don't recall exactly when did you marry Jennifer. That helps. That helps. I'm not going to ask. That helps. You know it was a day before Christmas, because it was you know,

God, you're killing me. Turn off the camera. Hold on, do you want to take a break? No, you better turn the camera off. I got married December fourteen, twenty ten, ten days later. You're you're killing me now, dude, you know ten days later I had the surgery the day before Christmas. That was an unfair question, do you So let's just see if we can agree that between August two thousand and ten and your surgery on December twenty fourth, two ten, were you under the

care of doctor Kapus for pain management. That's where I first want to see him. Yes, all right? Was he the one who suggested to you the spinal stimulator. Yeah, he did, you know, he after he worked on me for a while, he said, you know, you know there's tests. There's a testing thing, or we can put these these these leads in your back and we can just test his equipment out without doing surgery

to see if it helps it all. And again, I mean, I can take you through each visit, but is it generally a recollection that the injections you got from doctor Kapus and the spinal cord stimulator did not provide you the pain relief that you needed. Well, you know, it's almost like a smoking mirror situation. They would turn the spinal cord stimulator off so so much that if I would sit and they would turn it up, I would vibrate so much it would kind of, you know, like take my mind

off the pain. But as soon as I moved, it would you know, it wouldn't work. So, you know, I thought it was going to work, but it didn't. When did you strike that at some point you decided that you were going to have the fusion surgery by doctor Uribay, right, Yes, And you made that decision because were you in the same condition in December if ten that you were in August of two thousand and ten. I mean, you've already told us that you went to see doctor Kephis.

You barely could lay flat on the table because you were in such pain. You know, it was hard for him to examine you. Were you still in that much pain in December two thousand and ten? Yes, all right. Would you agree then that whatever doctor Kephis did for you, or prescribed for you or a minister to you, it did not help you.

Would you agree with that? Yeah? I would to say that he gave me some really heavy drugs that were more powerful than any of that percocets or delotted that or morpheme than I had because I was sleeping like a lazy I was sleeping in like a lazy boy chair, you know, as long as I kept my feet stretch out as far as I could, and I kept my arms over my head as far as I could, like stretching into the heavens, you're laying in this chair, I could. I could stay there.

But if I brought my arms in or my legs up, and I'll just yelp, like an involuntary yelp, like an animal or something, because the pain would just shoot through my body like I said, I couldn't move my hand, my neck, I couldn't even kneel. It was almost like even if I turned my head to look my back would make me scream. So it got to the point where by December I was, you know, pretty much non functional. And so this now when you described his treatment as

smoking mirrors, is that pretending to everything he was doing for you? Or simply the spinal stimulator, now, simply the spinal cord stimulator, you know, it just it vibrated so much because they turned up so high. You know, that was a gauge that you know, you sat down with somebody with a computer and they would you know, you could you could tell them how much you can handle, so I would have then give them the maximum you can. But it still hurts, you know. But it would vibrate

so much. On the remote control I had, there were four programs depending on you I was walking, sitting, laying down, or whatever the other one was for, you know, and it would vibrate so much. It would get you where you could walk from here to the door. But then if you try to sit down, you know, it wouldn't fix the pain sitting down, you know, So it just it was miserable. It was like smoking mirror. It just didn't work all the time. The spinal cord

stimulator. Can you tell us why, mister Bale. You know, if you show up at doctor Kaphus's office and you're in so much pain that you can't sit, stand or walk, and you lay down and you're screaming out why you decided not to have the Why didn't you go see doctor Rebay in August and have the fusion in August and save yourself that whatever, four or five months more of pain. Why did you try the spinal stimulator? Why did you try these heavy drugs? Well, you know, every doctor if

talked to you, has said the spinal cord stimulator might help. I mean every doctor if talked to you has said that the fusion might make things the same, or it might make things a lot worse, or it might make things a lot better. You know, they said you need to try every option, but you know there is before you have the fusion, because it's the unknown whether it's you're gonna make you better or not make you better.

So basically I was desperate and here's another option. You know, I'm this far down the road, you know, so you know, I need to try this option if it'll heal me and make me better. That's why I did it. I mean we're here today because the options you try at LSI didn't work, right, I mean, that's definitely not. And the options doctor Kephis gave you didn't work either, did they definitely not. Have you filed a suit against doctor Kephis? No? Are you planning to file a

suit against doctor Kyphis? I have no idea. Okay, when do you remember going to Morton Plant Hospital in September? So now we're a month after your visit with doctor Caphis you seem maybe that you went into Morton Plant Hospital

around September sixth? Do you remember that at all? I remember I was having back spasms constantly after the surgeries with doctor Z, and you know, and and they well, well Browler wait, and they had gotten really, really intense after the fifth surgery with him, and I remember going to Morton Plant from just an overwhelming attack of back spasms where it torked my whole body

around. Is it your testimony to this jury that you went to Morton Plant because you had spasms because of doctor Z's surgery and not because you had been picking up shells on a beach for four hours, which threw your back into spasms. Is that your testimony? My testimony is I want to Morton because my back had more than a normal attack of spasms, and that's why I

went. Because you had been picking up shells on the beach for four hours, bending over, picking up shells when you were a guest at somebody at somebody at the beach. Is that right? Well? I was what a guest of someone at the beach? You were picking up shells for four hours and that threw your back into spasms, and that's why you went to Morton Plant. Isn't that true? I don't know if that's true or not. I'm not a dog. Well, you were picking up shells at the beach

for four hours right before you. I don't recall picking up shells, dude, but I don't know if it was that day. Well, I mean, is it your testimony that the incident where you were picking up shells at the beach has absolutely nothing to do with you going to Morton Plant Hospital? Is that your testimony? My testimony is, I went to Morton Plant Hospital because I had an attack of back spasms. That was overwhelming more than usually. Do you know what precipitated the attack of back spasms? I wish I

did? I do not, Well, it seemed like you were telling me it was doctor Presky surgery that precipitated the back spasms. Is that what you believe? Well, the back spasms started after Presky worked on me. You remember how long you were at Morton Plan Hospital. No, I don't. Do you recall what treatment you received while you were a patient at Morton Plant

Hospital? No, I don't recall. Do you recall any conversations you had with any of the physicians at Morton Plan Hospital wherein they expressed any kind of opinions or comments statements about your treatment at Laser Spine Institute. No, I don't recall. Okay, do you know who John Ferrara is? Does that name ring a bell to you at all? Fr r r that's all samiliar. I don't know if I were to tell you he was doctor C's physician assistant an LSI, would that ring a bell at all? Oh? Okay.

According to the record, you report it to John ferrar in September thirteenth that you had a new onset of low back pain after picking up shells at the beach had been seen in the emergency room hospitalization for severe back spasms. Do you recall telling mister Ferrar that, No, I don't. I don't recall meeting Ferrr, but I'm sure if I saw him, i'd remember him. I'm not good at name. Are you denying that you made that statement

to mister Ferrar, which appears in the LSI records. I just gotta recall saying it, all right? Do you remember, as you sit here today, being out on the beach that day before, around at the time of the Morton Plant Hospital, where you were picking up shells, and that you suffered a new onset of back pain. Do you remember anything about that? Yeah, I remember being at the beach and bending over and picking up shells. I don't recall what day it was. Okay, who you were?

You a guest of somebody at the beach? Do you remember that? No, I was there with my wife, Jennifer, Okay, anyone else they there? You can remember that, I recall. Do you remember about the same time that you were telling mister Ferrar, at least according to the records from our clients, that you maybe had an oblique muscle tear. Do you remember anything about suffering an oblique muscle tear? No, I don't recall saying that. No, just for the jury, can you point to where an

oblique muscle would be well, obliques are on both sides, right. Do you Did you ever suffer any kind of oblique tear that you remember, not that I recalled during that time. Do you remember that there was a discussion with either mister Ferrar or doctor Preski about sending you to a general surgeon to evaluate whether this oblique tear was causing you some of the pain? Does that

ring a bell with you at all? Yeah? I remember talking with him about looking at my body in the mirror and I said, one of my obliques look swollen. I don't look normal, you know. I just figured it was from all the back series. I don't write remember saying I had a tear. Okay. Do you remember, though, that doctor Bretzki or the staff at LSI was in agreement to refer you to another specialist to see if they could figure out what was going on with you. I don't recall

that. And again, if it's in the records, you don't have any reason to dispute that it happened. You just don't remember because it's four years ago. Is that fair to say if it doesn't remember something. I don't think that's answerable. That's a form objection. I guess that's a form of objection. Yeah, I don't know. Do the records have the Australia tour in twenty ten or twenty two thousand and nine? Twenty nine? You're a lawyer, has corrected me. It was two thousand and nine. Well do

the records say two and ten? This record does. Yeah, So I mean these records, who knows anything's possible? It could be right wrong. I don't know. No, no, no, the record, well it's doctor Runger's record that says two thousand and ten. I'm just asking you as a general you know, I don't know what the records say at their right or not, you know, I mean, you know you got the records.

Who knows the right or wrong? You deny having any conversation with the folks at LSI in September twenty ten about a referral to a general surgeon. I don't recall. Okay, anyone need a break, We're all good, you all right, Yeah, I'm good. It looks to me, mister Balaia, like from the records of September fifteenth, of twenty and ten, and I've got one for your lawyer that you went back to see doctor Well. I don't know if you want to see doctor Kaphus or he wrote a

letter of medical necessity. I've marked that as Exhibit two, Exhibit two marked for identification. I've handed a copy to you and your lawyers. Feel free to take as much time to read that as you need. Mister Bela, what I wanted to ask you about is it looks like doctor Kephis is writing a letter on your behalf, maybe to an insurance company or something, to try to get you a prescription for fentora fe nt o r a. Do you see that in the first sentence of the second paragraph? Yeah, I

do. Do you remember do you remember discussing this letter with doctor Kyphus or do you remember anything about doctor Kephis or telling doctor Caphis that the fenaura was really the only thing that was allowing you any significant improvement. I remember the letter. I don't. I don't believe I've ever seen it, but I do know he prescribed me fentanyl. Yeah, huh, She's the only thing

that basically would take the edge off of pain. Do you when you were telling us earlier about you know, you were talking about the smoke and mirrors of the spinal stimulator, and I think you said he gave me some heavy drugs. Do you think it was the fentanyl or the fentora that he was giving to you? Is that what was giving you the no? I remember, I remember right before we did the spinal cord stimulator, I had two

or three epidurals in the same light in the same time frame. I don't know if it was weak or two weeks, but I just remember we had two or three epidurals in a row and nothing was working. Excuse me, I'm going to take a break. Yes, the time is ten twenty five. We're off the record, recess. This is just number two. The time is ten thirty five. We're back on the record, continued direct examination by mister Train mister Balaiah. Before we took a break, I was asking

you about the fentora that was prescribed. Let me strike that because I was actually asking you about this letter of medical necessity Exhibit two, which reflects that doctor Kaphis was trying to get you a prescription of fentura, and I asked you if you felt like the fentora was the drug, the heavy drug that was prescribed by doctor Kfis. What is your recollection? Do you think that's what the heavy drugs? You mentioned heavy drugs when you responded to a question

earlier. Do you think it was this fentanyl fentora drug. You know what I recall is right before the spinal cord stimulator, just before just having more drugs put in my back than I had before, because usually an epidural would last sometimes a couple of months. Huh yeah. But I remember when when I went back to Colfeld, you know, he did an epidural, then he went back to the best of my recollection, it seems like two or three days later, and then two or three days later I had like three

epidurals. You know, I was, I was just getting pumped with heavy drugs in my back, and I just you know, it was it was, and it was nothing was working. That's what I recall. If you look at the last sentence of the first paragraph, mister Balayat says the patient has tried fentura, which has allowed him to give enough relief that he's able to get up and start walking again. Do you recalled telling him that that

you had tried Fentora. I don't recall tell him that at all. Do you know whether you had been on Fentura before the state of September fifteenth, twenty ten. I don't recall the date. But the only time that I've had fentanyl that I can recalls from doctor Cutoffel. Okay, I I mean, I guess Fventora is a it contains fentanyl. So if you tried Fentora, it would have been from doctor Kephis. That's your best memory. Yeah, I don't know what Fentora is. The only thing I know is I

always prescribed fentanyl and that was from doctor Kephis. It's the best of my recollection. And do you recall that you that that allowed you enough relief that you were able to get up and start walking again. Yeah. When I have a fentanyl, it took the edge off where I could you know, you know, walk a certain distance, you know, from here to the door. I could sit for you know, maybe fifteen minutes instead of not being able to sit for thirty seconds. You know, it took the edge

off. It's still you know, it still was where I couldn't sleep, though you know, it didn't take the edge off where I could sleep well. The last sentence, mister Balaia states, given the patient's strenuous work, I believe he needs the medication to allow him to work and function as his current need to maintain his work. As his current need to maintain his work

is of the utmost importance to him and his family. Do you recall telling doctor Caphis that you needed some medication in order for you to work and function well. I told him, you know, if I didn't get back to work on a consistent basis, I was gonna lose my job. What was your job at that time? In September two thousand and ten, I was working for TNA Wrestling as a general manager of the show, which basically is

I'm just an employee. It's just, you know, it's entertainment. So the general manager is not you know, it's really not a general manager. So and I'm trying to get an idea, mister Blia, of what was going on with you as of September twenty ten. Were you able to work in function as long as you got this medication. I remember, before the medic medication you know, having a back brace and going to work with a

back brace. I remember from the beginning of the LSI surgeries that you know, there will be a point where in time where I would go to work and there was relief, you know, and then I couldn't go to work anymore because the paint so bad. So it was on and off, you know, depending on what my condition was. But all I knew was if I kept getting surgeries and I kept not going to work, I was gonna

lose my job. So I was trying to express the coloflal that if I that I had to be consistent and I couldn't disappear every couple of months of surgeries, and I was afraid I was going to lose my job. And we'll get to this a little later on. But it's not your testimony. Is it that you were not able to engage in your profession of wrestling at any time you were under the care of the side physicians. You're not saying

that, are you? In other words, you were able to wrestle during the time that you were under the care of the LSI folks, I wouldn't call it wrestling, Yeah, I'd go back to the term smoke and mirrors. You know, I could walk out and have a presence, but I couldn't actually go in there and wrestle. Yeah. I could take a few steps, maybe throw a punch, but as far as doing like the Hulk Cogan main event wrestling match that was known for, I couldn't do that anymore.

Huh. You couldn't do that even before you started seeing the doctors at A Right, I did it for thirty years. Yeah, but you were, I mean, your body had taken such a toll before you started seeing LSI in February that you weren't doing that type of wrestling anymore. My body was pretty beat up. Yeah, I mean you I mean you picked Flare up and threw them off the top rope in November if two thousand and nine in Australia, Do you recall that, I mean, that's during the time

you were well strike that you recall that match down in Australia. Yeah, anytime you have to understand, you know, you know what we do in

there. You take your own bump. So basically, if somebody is getting slammed off the top rope, you put your hands up, you know, ten or fifteen pounds of pressure to pay on how great of an athlete you are and you guide them, or it's an illusion such as if you toss somebody, they take their own bump, such as when I picked up the seven hundred pound hound to the Giant in nineteen eighty eight, he probably weighed one hundred and ten pounds because he because he pushed up on my shoulders in

my thought, And it's a balancing act because you can't pick up a seven hundred pound man up, you know, So when you slammed and threw Flare off the top rope, basically Flick took his own bump with my hands in position. It's all. I picked up a two hundred and fifty pound guy and held him over my head and slammed him because I can't do that. I guess my question to you is this, is it your claim in this

lawsuit that the treatment given to you at LSI prevented you from wrestling? As you and I are using that term during the period of time two thousand nine up to twenty and ten, I don't think they're using the same terms. So can you explain to how you're using the term objection to the form? Do you understand what when you use the term wrestling, You've already told me that it's not college wrestling. You recall testifying to that a little while ago.

Yeah, okay, you said it's entertainment, correct, correct, all right, So using the term wrestling as you have described it for us on the record, is it your claim in this lawsuit, mister Blaya, that what the folks at LSI did for you prevented you from engaging in that type of wrestling or entertainment. Yea, the level of entertainment that I needed to participate at the at to be the main event, Hulk Hogan. They definitely

prevented me from doing that. Okay. It was a compromise, you know, I could participate on a much lower, not a main event level than what I was used to or before the surgeries. And when you say you were prevented from wrestling on a main event level, are you speaking two opportunities you had with the WWE. I'll speak everything across the board, okay,

yeah, my normal level of performance across the board. Your testimony is that what the folks at LSI did prevented you from being a main event for TNA. Yeah, they definitely prevented him be from a main event. Yeah, TNA on a consistent basis to generate the type of revenue I could have generated if I had if I didn't have those surgeries. Are you generating that revenue

now? No? After your fusion? No? All right, So back to this letter where you where doctor Kafis said, I believe he needs the medication to allow him to work and function as his current need to maintain his work as of utmost importance. What work were you doing for TNA that you needed to keep doing just being the general manager? Well, they were, you know, when I would leave my house, they were generally twelve hour

days. You know. I would leave at eight in the morning. I had a production meeting at ten, you know, and then then I had a talent meeting at twelve, you know, and then I have to go over all the matches to sit there and talk with the guys on what to do and what not to do, and then we start filming at six thirty

at night and film two or three hours. So for me to get through those twelve hour days, you know, it was a lot different than you know, sitting up at home trying to eat a TV dinner in five minutes, you know, for me to get through those twelve hour days and so I wouldn't lose my job, I had to have some type of help to take the edge off just to get me through those days. Did you ever tell doctor Kephis, hey, do something for me that will get me back

to being the main event. I want to be the main event for TNA. I want to be that guy. I don't want to just be the general manager where I go sit in production meetings twelve hours a day. I want to be in the ring. I want to be the main guy. Help me get there. Did you ever have that discussion with doctor Kephis. You know, my main injective with Kafko was trying to get out of pain. Uh you know, passing to be the initial first step that we were

trying to accomplish. And would you agree he was not successful in getting you out of pain during the time you saw him. Correct, I would agree I was in constant pain no matter what we tried. Why did you tell doctor Kephis that the current need to maintain your work was of the utmost importance to him and his family. What was going on with you at that time that led you to make that statement to doctor caphis, Yeah, well I needed to generate revenue. Just you know, I just went through a divorce

and had to just settle a huge civil lawsuit. You know where my son got into wreck. That's the Grutziano and the passenger was injured. Yes, okay, And I you know, I had next wife that had to receive a check every month, and I needed to work and generate revenue so I could pay my bills, get a place to live and eat, and just you know, how to go to work. When was the divorce? The divorce was settled in two thousand and nine, I don't recall, don't remember.

Okay, it looked from what I've seen that the Graziano lawsuit was actually settled around February twenty and ten. Does that sound right to you? I don't really recall. All right, let's talk about that lawsuit a little bit. Did you have to pay I guess the settlement probably is confidential, but it is. But did you have to pay that settlement out of pocket? Or was it covered by an insurance policy? I paid to answer these questions? Now we're not well, I haven't even asked a question yet, So

now we're not going to talk about the amount of the settlement. Well, we'll see about that. Do you are you in possession, We'll see about that. Well, it may be relevant. Well, then you can take it up with the court. He's not going to answer any questions. There's a confidentiality agreement. So if you get a court order he can. But if we'll see about it means he's going to talk about it today, he's not. I don't think I even asked a question. Why do you keep

injecting yourself. I haven't even asked a question what the settlement was. My question was I think the settlement is confidential, so I don't know why you even need to talk. I'm referring to your comment about we'll see about that. We're not going to see about that. Well, we will if we go to the court. Well, yeah you will, but you're not going to see about it today. Did you was the defense in the case paid for by an insurance policy, meaning the attorneys who represented you and Nick or

Nick? Was that paid for out of an insurance policy or out of your pocket? To answer that question, brother, you can answer that to the extent that you know there was you know there was no umbrella coverage. You know, my wife had refusing Brella coverage, so she only had, you know, a two hundred and fifty thousand dollars policy, and the settlement was

for much. We're not going to talk about the settlement. Okay, we're not even going to characterize it. It didn't cover the settlement, all right, So we can talk if the judge allows him to get into it and he's protected, but we're not going to talk about it without a court order. Well, why are we talking about it now? No, I'm talking about the I'm talking about the amount or any characterization of the amount out So

so I'm not sure you answered my question. You paid not only the amount of the settlement, but you also paid the defense costs and expenses out of your pocket. Correct, Yes? Do you know approximately when that lawsuit was filed? No? Do you know if we assume the internet reports are correct, and you know it's probably a big assumption, but if we assumed it was settled in early twenty ten, do you know approximately how long the lawsuit went on? How many months or years? Any idea? Yeah, I

can't assume anything from the Internet. None of that self is true. When was the accident involving mister Graziano, it's the best of my recollection. Oh seven. It also appears that you hired is it the Zuckerman Spader firm? Is that who you hired to represent you in that lawsuit? Initially? Yes? And did you end up finally a lawsuit against Zuckerman Spader regarding payment of what you contend were unnecessary legal fees? Yes? Again? Was that case

settled or did go to trial? Settled? Okay? And did that result in Zuckerman Spader were turning any moneys to you? Yes? Is the amount of the money confidential as well? Yes? Were you, mister Blat? Did you give a deposition in the Graziano case like we're doing here today. Yeah, I don't recall that. You know, I'm sure I would have had to you, But I don't recall a deposition. You recall giving a deposition in the lawsuit against the Zuckerman Spader firm? No, I don't.

No, you don't recall, or no, I don't recall. No, you did not. I don't recall who did you hire after you're split with Zuckerman Spader, who defended you in the Grazio lawsuits? Do you recall, sir, the amount of legal fees you incurred in totality in defending that lawsuit. No, no, idea can't even estimate. No, I don't recall there were so much at any time, say two thousand and seventh or two

thousand and ten. Did you have a personal accountant, someone who would be in charge of paying you know, I assume you had a statement from your lawyers, and that statement would need to be paid. Who was in charge of paying the bills for the lawyer fees? Lewis Bertram Riccardo? Okay, And where are they located, Claire Water? Are they still your personal accountant? Do you still use them? No? Do you know how approximately when

you stopped using them as your personal accountant? Don't recall. Do you have any records in your personal possession that would reflect that information, meaning how much money you paid in legal fees to defend the Graziano case. No, I don't Who would have those records? Do you know? Probably Lewis Bertram Riccardo. Did you give a deposition in the marital dissolution case with Linda? Do you recall? I'm sure I did, but I don't recall who was Linda's

attorney in that case? Do you remember oh Man did. The final attorney was Ray Rafool, but she did have like five or six attorneys before him. Did you? You mentioned earlier that you paid her, You had to pay her a monthly check when we were talking about this letter from doctor Capus about medical necessity, and you explained that none of the needs you had to maintain your work was paying Linda's that correct. Yeah, it's part of the

bills that I had to pay every month. Yes, were you required under the settlement agreed agreement to pay make an alimony payment every month? Is this something we talk about? Well, I don't know if that I didn't represent you in the divorce, I don't know. Was that a confidential sentiment as well? Well, well, you know the marital sentiment was a confidential but

you know, especially a poenis since I think it's public record. I'm not sure you know a balanty of that, but I mean it was mostly confidential. Well, it's all over the you know, I don't know whether it is or not, but it's a confidential settlement. I don't want you breaching any confidentiality. So if you've got something you could show him that has already been breached then that may change my mind. But I don't want him answering.

I don't want him violating the confidentiality agreement. So well, I'm not asking about him, Mounce, I'm asking. I mean, he's already testified he paid or each month. Can you tell us, mister Balaa, whether that's an alimony payment or child support payment or what type of payment that is? No, it's not alimony. You know, there was a total buyout where she basically got almost everything I had, and then I couldn't afford the rest of the money. So it was set up on payments, trying to

try to appease to her make it work. Because this settlement, it was reduced to a written order in agreement. Excuse me, a settlement with Linda was reduced to a written agreement. I don't know what that means. Was it in writing? I mean, oh yeah, yeah. I mean if we wanted to know, if the judge, for example, in this case, wanted to know how much money you have to pay Linda, is there a document in your possession that you could produce that would have that information.

No, but I'm sure one of my attorneys, like David Houston, you know, who was involved through the whole divorce, would have it? Okay, you don't have a copy at home or something? No, okay, Well we're talking about Linda, are you Is she in any way I witness to any of your visits to the Laser Spine Institute. I mean I think you had separated by then. Oh yeah, No, No, she wasn't around your knowledge. Does she have any had she had any conversations with any

of the folks at LSI about your condition? No? All right, in terms of being a witness in this case and maybe coming to trial to testify about your legend injuries and damages as a result of what you say happened at LSI, Would she have anything to say about that? I have no idea what she would say. Okay, I don't have a clue. Well, do you think she'd be in a position to say anything about your injuries or damages in this case? Maybe she'd wrestling on the internet. I don't know

where she'd get her information. I don't know. Okay, all right, Yeah, I don't talk with her, so I have no idea. Are you do you still owe her money under the agreement? Yes? All right? And are you making monthly payments? Pursue into this agreement, and that's what you owe her. Is there a lump sum that you owe her. I'm making monthly payments. Okay, I mean there's a lump sum, but it's broken down into payments. Okay. If I have the money, I'd

love to pay her off, but I don't. Mister Balaia, you and I are in the same boat on that issue, do you? Does she own any part of or what I call intellectual property. You know, your trademarks, the Hulkamania trademark, the Hollywood huk Hoogan trademark, all of those things that you spent your career sort of building up. Does she get any residuals from that? She doesn't known any of the marks or the likeness. But she just participate. When you say participate, she does participate financially.

Yes, she gets some residual fee or something for your use of of some of those trademarks. Yes, okay. The media reports state that she received a lump some payment at the time of settlement of over seven million dollars. Is that accurate? Well, you can show him something, but I'm not going to have him wave a confidentially confidentiality agreement. Not today, So he's

not going to answer that. I'm instructing him not to answer if you want to take it up with the judge, and he gives him protection to answer as well as these other issues that you mentioned earlier with gard to Graziano and so forth. We can do all that in one hearing, but he's not going to do it today, all right. And my next question is, according to the media reports, there were sort of a total of about ten point four million dollars that you and Linda had in bank and investment accounts,

of which she got seven point four millions. Question is is that accurate. Well, he's not going to answer that, and you're going to follow your lawyer's advice not to answer those questions. Yes, sir, okay, there's also a report that she received that. And I'll tell you my position is this is completely relevant because this is why he I don't have a relevancy objection. Objection is there's a confidentiality in this settlement, and I'm not going to

have him well, somebody leaked it. Well, somebody leaked it may or may not be accurate, but he's not going to confirm or deny it. So it's not a relevancy objection. I don't want to get into hot water where he's breached a confidentiality agreement on a prior settlement with his ex wife. So you're going to need to get the protection for the court of the court for that same question. Then, mister Balaia, the reports are that she

received a forty percent ownership in various companies you had. Is that accurate? Same instruction, You're going to follow your lawyer's advice and not answer the question. Yes, yeah, definitely. All right, now I think we better get a court order. You know, some of the information is way off So yeah, we definitely need to get a quarter to get facts correct facts. Well, you can certainly correct me if my reports are wrong. No,

I'm just telling you whoever got that information is way off base. All right, let's move on then. So we're talking about doctor Kapis. You're seeing him. Do you remember that he injected you with botox? Do you remember that for pain relief? I seem to recall as having a conversation that

botox if used. I can't remember what he said it was used for, but it would help with pain for what reason I can't remember, But I seven remember having a conversation about it because it hit't we really strangely, because I thought it was for plastic surgery stuff. Yeah, And did that provide you any relief that you remember the botox injection or injections. I don't remember getting injected with botox. Oh you don't, No, just a discussion.

If he did inject me. I don't recall. He injected my back so many times. I don't recall. All right, So we talked about the spinal cord stimulator. Was that actually put in by a doctor Samuel Joseph at Moreno Spine and Scoliosis Office. Do you remember that it was doctor Joseph? Yes, you know, see a theme to some of my questions. So did you talk with doctor Joseph at all about the treatment you had received at LSI? Did he make any comments to you and the opinions about what you

had done at LSI or anything like that. I don't recall what I said to him. Okay, all right, So let me show you another record, mister Balaa from doctor Hunger's office, which will be Exhibit three. Exhibit three mark for identification. Just for the record, this is Exhibit three. It's a record from doctor Jeff Hunger, Associate Director of Family Medicine, Loma Linda University School of Medicine. Ten. Where was this? Do you recall

this visit? Mister BEALAA? I can't tell if this is in California or if this is in bel Air or somewhere else. I don't recall. Where was that? Do you recall this visit though? By any chance? No? I don't. Is it possible this could have been a phone call. It may have been a phone call. Well, I don't know. I'm asking he's impossible. Well, I doubt it. I mean he noted physical exam at the bottom of the exam. Usually when a physician notes physical exam,

they're putting hands on you. Well, there you go. You know, this may have just been a visit you had with him as your family doctor to be cleared for the pump procedure. If you look at the second page, it says plan patient is medically cleared for implantable pump procedure scheduled four scheduled four October twenty six, twenty ten. Risks and benefits have been discussed with the patient in the past. These will also be discussed with his pain

management team prior to surgery. Do you see that plan on the second page? Yes, I do. Does that refresh your recollection of seeing doctor Unger to be cleared for the pump procedure? No, it doesn't. Okay, you reported to doctor Unger though, or at least the history and the physical at the top of page one reflects that you have had six surgical procedures in the past two years. Do you see that in the second line? Yes?

Were those the LSI surgeries? Yeah? And then you told him or he noted that you had multiple epidurals, the last being approximately eight days ago, which minimized him of pain for only forty eight hours. Do you see that it's about three sentences down. Yeah, I do, And I think that's consistent with what you've told us. That would have been an epidural. That would have been an epidural that was given to you by doctor Caphus correct, Yeah, it would He has a partner in there named doctor Chin Okay,

Yeah, it could have been him, all right or Kafaffel. Now, if you look to the three lines from the bottom of that paragraph, it's his patient's level of functioning has deteriorated significantly over the past four months. Do you see that sentence? Yes, I do. You reported that you are unable to travel, sleep walk, or exercise without experiencing severe pain. Is that accurate? Yes? Okay, although at this time you were getting

injections from doctor Caphus correct beginning in August of two thousand and ten. Well, I don't know the timeline, but I was getting injections from him. Okay, now here we go again. The next paragraph, approximately two months ago after traveling from Australia, the patient was noted to have a change on his EKG, which was not present on prior studies. Is the refresh your recollection about whether you went to Australia in two thousand and ten? Now,

I don't know the exact data went to Australia. I don't recall that. Was that the trip for in August of two tho ten to Australia. I have no idea. Okay, I don't know if this is accurate or not, you know, I mean, I don't know. We're nger, you know. I remember go to Australia one time to wrestle. Okay, that's the only time I've ever been to Australia. I've never been there before. I don't remember going twice, all right, So if I went twice for

some reason, I don't recall why I would have gone twice. Do you remember in the discussion about an abnormal EKG, you know, a Hart test. Yeah, well, Steve Chapman to refer me to his cardiologist, doctor Phillips, and I went in there. If it was before another surgery, or it was before the spinal cord stimulator, I was trying to pass it, you know, get the normal physical so I could have another surgery,

you know, whatever the next procedure was. I don't recall what procedure it was, but I remember I didn't, you know, the EKG didn't work. So doctor Phillips put me through a regime of sonograms and stress tests and all kinds of other stuff. I remember telling him, you know, there was just probably a glitch in that EKG because I had too much anesthesia too many times, too close together. And he made me feel that, you know, that that could have probably been the problem. But once you did

the sonogram and the stress test and everything, everything seemed normal. He said it was just one abnormal EKG. You know, you know, one of the things he said could have caused it, you know, could have been the anesthesia that wasn't completely out of my system from the multiple surgeries. Okay, And again, when you sit here telling us about this, can you picture doctor Phillips, what he looks like, what his office looks like. I mean, do you have that kind of recollection of your visit with him?

Well, you know, if I saw him on recognize him. You know, I don't know if if i'd recognize him here, huh. But if I walk in the office and there were ten doctors, I could tell you which one was him, all right. And the same question that I asked you before with doctor Phillips, would you have been you know, honest and accurate with I'm sorry I misunder who did you say the first time doctor

Phillips? Yes? Yeah. Would you be honest about telling him if he asked you what's going on with you today, mister Balaia, would you honestly report your condition? Would you honestly tell him what you had been through with LSI if he asked in doctor Kapis, if he asked things like that. Yes. Now continuing on with this note from doctor Unger, the last paragraph right in the middle of that page, the last paragraph before the PMH.

It says one month ago, which would have been September of the patient was hospitalized for five days in clear Water for severe back pain. Do you know if doctor Runger is referring to the Morton Plant admission. No, I have no idea who what he's referring to. Okay, do you recall him telling Do you recall telling him about your admission to Morton Plant Hospital. No,

I don't recall that conversation specifically. But you don't disagree, do you that you were you were hospitalized in clear Water for severe back pain in September twenty ten. I don't agree or disagree. You know, I know I went there for severe back pain. I'm not good with day or names, and so September fifth could have been the date. You know, it could have been the date I'm as spoken told longer it could have been, you know if I don't know if the date is correct or not. But I know

I went to Morton Plan for severe back pain. But I don't know if it was five days or if it was in September. I just want to recall the date. Okay. Would you agree that since that hospitalization where you were hospitalized at Morton Plant that your condition worsened after that episode. Well, you know, I got to the point where after the first after a couple of years of surgeries, or the year and a half of surgeries, the

spasms got worse and worse and worse. And he got to the point where, I know, you know where one of the surgeons you don't Breski, you know, brought me back in, you know, three or four weeks later for another surgery. It was because my back was spasming and it just gradually got worse and worse and worse. That's why I ended up in Morton Plan. It got to the point where my body twisted and I couldn't get it straightened back up. So is it your testimony that you had these spasms

throughout the time you treated at Laser Spine Institute. Yeah, they started coming on after the first couple of surgeries, and they kept coming on stronger. Had you ever suffered back spasms prior to February of two thousand and nine when you first started as a patient at Laser Spine Institute, I recall, has any physician told you that the procedures performed on you at Laser Spine Institute caused

you're back to spasm. Yeah, I don't recall conversations with any physicians about back spasms if there were, so the answer to my question is no, you do not recall any conversations with a physician in which that physician said your back spasms were caused by the procedures at LSI. Well, I don't recall the conversations. I know I talked quite frequently about it to Kathaklin and Bareski

and you know, Juribby and you know about the stuff. But I don't recall specific conversations because my back was spasming, you know, constantly, as soon as the medicine would wear off, or the injections, or when the surgery would wear off, whatever they did it to me, my back was spasm again because it caused my cause I got worse and worse the time went on. Yet you continued, did you not to appear or even wrestle as you and I have described that term in Australia and for TNA during the time

period that you were being seen at LSI. Well, after I cleared with the doctors and told them what I was going to do exactly, you know, when the moves were calculated. They just said, don't do anything crazy and be careful and you should be fine. With the back spasms that you claim occurred at LSI or because of LSI, they did not prevent you from flying to Australia and wrestling Rick Flair four times. Would you agree with that?

I would agree with that. Yeah. You know, when my back was stable, when with the drugs I was given, there was an amount of coping and functioning. But when you couldn't function, you couldn't function. So you know, I know when I went to Australia, it was right after, you know, a couple of weeks or ten days after the third back surgery, and I wasn't in spasms that were you know, twisting up

at that time. And then a year later you report to doctor Hunger that you weren't able to get out of bed or walk due to the pain and you ended up in the hospital for pain. And your testimony is that this was not brought on by any incident or episode or injury, that what that was just the back spasms getting worse progressively. Is that what you're telling the jury? Yes, okay, well you'll be well. You have to understand is after every surgery, there was immediate relief for a couple of days and

then I've got a little discomfort or twins. You know, it was either you know, maybe we maybe needed to get more aggressive, or maybe we needed to do an epidural or facet injections. You know, there were there were periods, you know, when there were the maintenance from LSI and the doctors. You know, whether it be you know whoever the pains management guy was at LSI. I can't even think of his name now, doctor Gruber.

Gruber Gruber would kind of like give me more of a grace period, you know, you know coll of them would you know, when the spasms would happen, you give me an epidural or fast injections or radio frequency You'll burn the nerves. He would give me a grace period. But then it got to the point where none of it worked, so it go worse.

Is went along. So during these periods between the surgeries, were you actively requesting that doctor Gruber help you take the edge off, give you an injection to allow you to do what you needed to do to go to Australia to appear for TNA to work and earn a living. Did that happen all the above? I remember him suggesting maintenance shots or whatever it was, you know, epidurals. I remember begging for help. I remember talking to I'm saying, I'm so bad. You please do something for me, you know,

help me. You know I'm either in so much pain, you know, or can you give me another uppidurals so I can get through the next two weeks. I remember both him suggesting and me begging for relief. I mean, you had the Graziana lawsuit in the divorce hanging over your head in two thousand and nine, right, I don't recall the date you told our clients that you needed you had to get back into the ring, you had to work. Did you tell them that I told them I need to keep my

job. Yes, And you asked for maintenance injections to help you earn a living because you knew you were going to have to keep up this life style pay for these expenses. Isn't that right? Yeah? I needed to work for sure. Do you remember a physician's assistant a doctor Kaphus's office, named Steve Stephen Mock. Does that name ring a bell with you, mister Balaia, No, okay, all right, I'm gonna go ahead and mark this as exhibit four, and your lawyers have been handed a copy. You can

read that, sir, Exhibit four mark for identification. Do you need these or do it? Do you need these? Or do I hang onto these? You can hold one of them. The core reporter will take them. Okay, And just for the record, this is in October thirteenth, twenty ten, clear Water Pain Management Associates Letter to whom it may concern, dictated by Demitro's Capos by Steve mack pa. Wait a minute, that's not what you gave me in October thirteenth letter. What's that I got in October fifth?

Progress note? It looks like that's the last exhibit. That's someone you just gave me. I'm sorry you want this, dude, I don't have that. He's got he's got the right one who you can have my copy? Brother, I don't have it in front of me, but I think I'm reading from the second page, mister Balaia. He writes in this letter, mister mock that given the patient, which would be you, the patients, the patient's strenuous work, his celebrity, his contracts to perform certain pay

per view TV shows and his large following in the wrestling world. It is necessary for him to maintain his work and current level of income, which is of utmost importance to him and his family, as their expenses recently have been great. Is that an accurate reflection of you in your condition as of October thirteenth, twenty ten. Well, I don't know if that dated right, dude, but that's a pretty active description of where I was at after surgeries,

you know, when I was on the fedinyl. I mean, can we not agree, mister Balia that you needed to do anything you could to stay active in working to earn an income and a fusion was not possible for you? Then, given your financial condition, can we agree on that? What is then the date of the letter October fifteenth? Repeat the question, please? Isn't it true, mister Balia that you weren't going to you didn't

want a fusion. Then in October you needed to pay these debts, you needed to pay these expenses, and you needed to try anything you could to stay out of that operating room to have a fusion. Isn't that right?

While at the time the lady that I was working for Dixie Carter was more gracious than anybody that I thought would be, and she stuck with me through all these surgeries, which I didn't expect, and I explained to her what was going on with the surgeries, and at that time, with a spinal core simulator and the fentanyl, my main goal was to just try to calm

things down and neutralize it. But then after I was on the fentanyl, my goal switched to get off the drugs because I couldn't remember my wife's name or the dog's names. I just you know, I had a hard time getting through the day without crying most of the day, so I knew I had to get some type of relief, but that was my main focus. I don't think that well, to the best of my recollection, I don't think a fusion was even in my thought process. I was in so much

pain during this time. I was trying to figure out how to get back to where I could function. But you knew fusion was a possibility. I've always known fusion as a possibility. Sure, but it's kind of like taking off the table when LSI told me I didn't need one. We'll get to that is your testimony that nobody at LSI ever told you, in writing or orally you may still have to have a fusion. They never said that to

you. And my testimony is the day I walked in an LSI, Saint Louis and a couple other doctors that were there looked at my pictures and said, you definitely don't need a fusion and we can fix you to where you can wrestle again. That's my testimony, and that wasn't my question. My question was, are you telling this jury that they never told you, in writing or orally that despite what we may do for you, mister Balaia, you may still need a fusion down the road. Are you talking about the

first visit now, I'm talking about any time, any visit. Well, I recall being with Gruber. You know, he was explaining me if we got more aggressive and cut too much bone away. Because I'm not a doctor, you know, I was asking questions about, you know, why is one hole bigger or smaller than another, and why can't you, you know,

get these nerves to quit getting pinched and doctor Gruber. So I recall doctor Gruber explain to me that if you cut too much bow away, you'll compromise the structural integrity of your back, and then you only more aggressive surgery ask for I remember, did anybody ever tell you, face to face, man to man during any visit to LSI Hulk, mister Balaia, we're trying our best, but you may still have to have a fusion. Did anybody

say anything like that to you? I don't recall that. Do you recall any reading anything that was given to you to sign before one of your procedures that said, despite what care we provide, patient may still have to have an open surgical fusion procedure or a fusion. Do you recall reading that? I just recalled being in pain and just signing everything they asked you to sign.

Didn't did all? Right? So, I mean, isn't your testimony that in October if twenty ten, when mister Mock wrote this letter that you were in such pain that I mean you essentially could not function, and that Dixie was sort of allowing you to sort of stay on the payroll. Is that what you testified to what? It's exactly? You know, she told me she was siggling me through thick and thin, and that you know I had a home there. I mean do you know that the day after that

letter was written, you appeared on TNA Impact Zone. Did you know that? No? I don't have a clue what the schedule was. Okay, and you came to the ring, you were on crutches, You threw the crutches down, you started arguing with Flair and his team. Do you remember any of that? No? I don't cute all right? I mean, isn't it true that you were undergoing these procedures and the injection so you could

keep that presence. You could be the man who came into the ring and argued with Flair, And you could be the guy who appeared at the TENA events and talked to the crowd and you know, came down with your crutches and bound for glory in October twenty ten. I mean, that's why you underwent these measures to reduce your pain. Isn't that right? Bro? I was trying to keep a job. Yeah. What was done for you at Laser Spine Institute and essentially by doctor Kapus allowed you to keep appearing and make

appearances and go into the ring and fight and yell and scream. I mean it allows you to keep your job, right, Well, you know, allow me to show up to work and get through the hours. I mean, you know there were compromises. I couldn't wrestle. You know, when you say the word fight, you know, if you're talking about throwing a couple punches, are you know, doing a half hearted, contrived exhibition?

Yeah? I mean, you know, whether I sat in the back for twelve hours, or whether I walked to the ring and talked, or whether I sat in the sat in the back for twelve hours, or I walked to the ring and threw a crutch down, it was pretty much the same long day. It wasn't like I was getting suplexed off the top rope or getting slammed in the concrete or any of that, you know, more aggressive

stuff they told me not to do, which I didn't. But you hadn't been doing that for a while before you came to LSI, had you? I don't recall you. I know, I was working part time with the WWE in and out. You're doing a few pay per views here and there. Did did you know that? In July? I mean you were still at LSI treating with doctor Bresk in July of twenty ten, and you appeared on the Impact Zone, and you came out of the ring with a wrestler

named Abyss, and Eric tried to stop you. Eric tried to stop you from coming in because of your recent back surgery. And you strutted around the ring and Bischof held you back and you slapped Abyss and then you grabbed a chair and you hit him on the back. I mean, this is physical activity. It may not be wrestling to the stent that you're throwing someone off the top rope, but you're engaging in physical activity, isn't that right? Well, so it's walking and you know, sitting. All that stuff is

physical activity, brother, but it's minimal activity. You don't get paid for walking and sitting though, do you what? Yeah, yeah, I did. Well. You got paid also and more money for being in the ring and hitting a biss with a chair and having a biss hold you by the throat. No, that's not true. I got paid more money if I wrestle had made event matches. It was just a was just on a salary. So if I walk and I sit and I talked and creatively contributed and

helped write the shows, I got paid. I didn't get paid more for going to the ring I wish I did. No physician has told you, have they that because of the treatment you u at LSI, you could not wrestle and be the main event to be jumping off the top rope and landing on the concrete. I mean, no physician has told you that, have they? No? The only advice I was given by the Dale side doctors who said I could go to the ring and participate, but take it easy,

right. And the hopes were always that, you know, after every back surgery, and we kept going to the well for more back surgeries, at the fourth one or the fifth one or the sixth one would be the key to where I could be healthy again. But they kept telling me,

you know, you don't need a fusion. So that's why I kept going back to the well every time it suggests, well, you know, we didn't get aggressive enough, or we missed, or we need to go to another level, you know, take things to another level, and we need

to cont decompress a vertebrae. Ill kids just could listen to LSI, who I trusted, but because all the backdoctors who I said I needed a fusion, said exercise every option you possibly can, right, So lside was an option, and they told me I didn't need fusion, and I trusted them. And doctor Kapis was an option, and the spinal court stimulator was with doctor Joseph. That was an option too, correct, Well, it was

an option to get me out of pain after the surgeries didn't work. There's an option to allow you to work, so you didn't have to go a fusion, right, I couldn't have worked at that point point. It was an option to get me out of pain. I mean, when I would talk about working is different than what you're talking about. I mean, we talk about work, we're talking about just going to the ring and walking and participating or creatively being involved. You know, when we talked about wrestling,

I thought they would fix me and I didn't need a fusion. Would I would get back to the level of performing where I could generate you know, main event revenue. All right, So did doctor Kifis tell you either did need a fusion, you did need a fusion, you didn't need a fusion, or you might need a fusion if this treatment failed. Was there any discussions about that? I'm sure there were, but don't I don't recall those discussions. We always knew, didn't you, mister Balais, since you were

told by doctor Rebay and others that you needed a fusion. You knew in two thousand and nine, in two thousand and ten that fusion was an option, right, Oh, I knew it was an option. Okay. I mean you could have at any time in two thousand nine or two thousand and ten say you know what, I'm just I'm going to do the hill Mary, I'm going to have the option. I'm going to do the fusion. You could have made that decision yourself, correct, Well, I could have,

but I was trying to do the smart decision. Listen to the doctors I said they could fix me, or that you don't need fusion. And you were listening to doctors who said you didn't need a fusion, and you

were listening to yourself. And what you were saying to yourself is what's reflected in these records, which is you were under financial pressure and you needed to keep the money coming in and you couldn't afford to go through an eight to ten hour procedure where you were maybe on your back rehabbing for eight months. You couldn't afford that at that time could you what time are we talking about?

Yeah, I don't know what he's talking about. Brother. From the time you walk in lsi's doors on February twenty, fifteen, thousand and nine, to your last procedure before your fusion surgery with the spinal cord stimulator in doctor Capus, you knew at any time you could say, you know what, I'm not going to have any more objection injections, no more procedures. I'm going to have a fusion. You could have done that. I could have, but I didn't because I was listening to the doctors at ls High

that said I didn't need that and they could fix me. And you were listening to yourself, as is reflected in these records that you and I have just looked at that you needed to stay on your feet and needed to earn an income and you couldn't financially bear a fusion seizure in two thousand nine or two thousand and ten because you knew, based on what doctor you Rebay told you that you would have been on your back, rehabbing, recovering for eight

months and you couldn't do that. Let me object, that's an ambiguous question. I don't know that anybody knows what listening stopped coaching And mister Floren, what do you mean by please stop coaching him? What do you mean listening to object to the form? I'm going to object to the form. It's ambiguous. What do you mean by listening to yourself? You're going to get in trouble, mister Floren. You can raise any issue you want with the

court. It's also a compound question, do you mister Bella. Isn't it true that during the years two thousand and nine two ten you were making the decision on your own because of your financial condition, not to have a fusion procedure. It's not true. Okay, Well, your testimony to this jury is that you completely put your healthcare in the hands of the physicians and you had no role in the healthcare decision making. Is that your testimony? No,

it's not my testimony. Did you know at the time you were a patient at LSI that you could have had a spinal fusion procedure? You could have gone back to doctor yuribay I could have, but there was no reason too because they said they would fix me and didn't need a fusion. They kept telling me you, oh, you don't need a fusion. They didn't. Did you want to have a fusion during that No, I didn't want to have a fusion because they said they could fix me with this minimal invasive

surgery. So that's why I stated with AlSi, because they kept telling me they could fix me. And even after Saint Louis, after the third surgery, he said he couldn't help me. That's when That's when that's when Brewski came said I can fix you. So that's when I had three more surgeries, and at that time I wanted to keep my job. All I knew

was what I knew at the time. If I would have known that Dixie Carter was so understanding and God or LSI would have told me, you need a fusion, and I knew if I would have known Dixie was so understanding, well, then I could have had the fusion done and I could have had the four to six to eight months or six months grace period, because Urina said could be on my feet in four to six months. But I

didn't know that at the time. I didn't know Dixie Carter well enough to say, hey, you God, I have a fusion and be gone for eight months. It was only after I had several surgeries. You told me, no, I'm in your court, you know, and you've got and you've got a home here. I only knew what I knew at the time, but no one told me any different. You know, if they would have told me, or if Ellis I would have told man after the surgery, hey, you know we did our best. You know you need a

fusion. I would have had to approach Jessie Carter and I would have been forced ask her. But I never happened. Is am I correct? Incorrect? Mister Balaia, that your financial situation as it existed in two thousand and nine and two thousand and ten, Is it your testimony that didn't play any role whatsoever in your decision not to have a fusion procedure. During those two calendar years two thousand and nine two ten, elisi was maintaining me where I

could go to work. Elisid told me they could fix me. I had money coming in because Eliside was maintaining me. So at that time the money was coming in. Everything was copasetic. I was paying my bills. I focused on getting healthy, you know, knowing that elis I would fix me because they said they could. You know, so I didn't have any have surgery because of the financial situation. Like they're like, they're you're trying to portray it. That's not true. You know, money was coming in.

I had a contract, and I didn't make surgery decisions depending on whether I had an income coming in or not. Did doctor Kyphis tell you he could fix you. I don't recall him saying he could fix me. I recall him said that the spinal cord stimulator should take the edge off the pain. Just to give your heads out, I propose it's tend to two at noon, we would take a lunch break. Yeah, sounds good. It doesn't need to be exactly at noon. Well, i'll finish up with this area

of question. We'll get up to the surgery. Did you did you tell doctor Kaphis or anybody in his office at some point the spine stimulator was not helping you. Yeah. I don't recall tell you anybody in his office. I told doctor Cutofflins that I hadn't been using it for a while. You know, after the fusion, the pain kind of subsided and I didn't need

to turn it on all the time. Okay, before the fusion were you and after you got the spinal stimulator, was your condition better, worse, or the same than it had been when you first showed up in doctor Kaphus's office. It was It was pretty much the same, except if I have the stimulator turn on really high to where it would make it so you couldn't think or you couldn't lay down, you know, it would take the pain

away temporarily or take the edge off. My condition was about the same, but I had to turn the thing up so high that it felt like I was vibrating. It would end it would send shocks down your legs, and to put it on the comfort level where most people would put it, it didn't work for me. So I would jack the thing up, but it would, you know, it almost rattle your teeth with electricity or whatever the thing was. So the pain was still the same. It just would take

the edge off. So I want to turn the thing up for a short period of time. So after you had the stimulator place, say you know this period of time October in November December twenty what were you doing kind of on a day to day basis. Were you still going to work? Were you able to go to the office, able to exercise, work out in the gym. No, I don't recall what I was doing every day.

Okay. Do you recall specifically if you weren't in what they call intractable pain, meaning you weren't laying at home, sleeping, laying in the lounge for ten to twelve hours a day. Do you remember that being the case in October, November, December two thousand and ten. You know, I don't recall dates, dude, but I all all I know is I wasn't in this lounge share and excruciating pain. I made an effort to show up in Orlando for the TV tapings that would happen, so sometimes once a week,

sometimes every three weeks. Is that where TENA was taping? Was over in Orlando? Yes? Okay, And you told us already you and Jennifer were married December fourteenth of twenty and ten. Yes, where was that wedding? Was that my house? The house that you live in now? No? Was it in the bel Air House? No? Which house? It was a rental house on Clearwater Beach. I couldn't leave the house at the time

it was, you know, because there were good and bad days. It was smarter to have the wedding at the house because if we planted everything somewhere else, like a different, different facility, we were afraid that if I had to stand too long or walk too long, or if it was a bad day, it might not happen. So we thought it was best to have it at the house. Where is doctor or at that time? And where was doctor Caphus's and the office of Clearwater Pain Management? How far away

was from your house? Oh? My car, it was probably two two and a half minutes. There's no traffic. So how many people came to your wedding? Was it a big wedding? Small wedding? Very small? Approximate ballpark number of people there? Yeah? It was my wife and I of course, you know, the minister and his wife from Los Angeles, and my son and daughter. That's it. There was no Chapman wasn't there, Farmer wasn't there? No? Okay. Did you have any kind of

celebration to any party in your reception afterwards? No? Okay? So how were you doing physically at that time? You said you were having good days and bad days, and good days in bad days. On the day of the wedding, was a good day because I stood up probably for a half hour at this time. Mister Bala, did you have any assistive device like a wheelchair that you had to use occasionally? Yeah? I did? You did? What did you have? I had a walker? Walker who would

prescribe that to you or given that to you. I don't recall. How did you end up getting back to doctor? Is it Vail? That's how you say his name? Yeah, Veil in doctor your rebay. They performed the surgery, talk about the surgery after lunch. But how did you end up going back to them? I don't really recall. You know, it was the point where the pain was just so far over the top. The spinal corese simulator didn't offer enough relief to have a normal life. You know.

I got to the point where I told Jennifer I'd rather be dead than taking all these drugs because I couldn't remember things and just emotionally was on a roller coaster. How could you know? You know, watching you temporarily take or take the edge off my condition was about the same. Oh did I go? Where'd I got? Ye? You? Une? Twenty? Oh? Wait? Okay, oh there we go? You know, I don't recall It was the point where the pain was just so far over the top.

The spinal corese simulator didn't offer enough relief to have a normal life. I got to the point where I told Jennifer I'd rather be dead than taking all these drugs because I couldn't remember things. Just emotionally was on a roller coaster. You know, I could be you know, you know, watching you right here with your pen and you had to start crying for no reason. And I just told her, I just, you know, I can't

take it anymore. I just remember reaching out to Veil how to sell number, and I said I need the spinal fusion, and he repeated what he told me before when I left the cancel the surgery, says I told you you'd be back. Huh, because I canceled the surgery. And when I told him, you know what I was going to do with the laser spine, he goes, you'll be back. And Chapman, Steve Chapman originally referred to you to doctor Valley back before the laser spine. Is that right,

Yeah? Yeah, because doctor Vail was head trauma surgeon, right, And I looked him up and I asked him to come check on John Graziano for me because we didn't feel he was getting proper treatment where he was at. Then when I was getting all these you know, opinions about my back and getting fusions, Chapman told me, well, you know you already know the best back surgery in the in the country. It's doctor Veil. I said, that's crazy. I thought he did the head trauma, so I called

Veil up. He says, no, no, I don't. I'm not the head back specialist, but I do work with you know, wand Urubie, who was the number one guy, and I asked I assist him on different surgeries. That's how I got back there. Okay, let's go ahead and break. What do you want an hour? The time is eleven fifty three. We're off the record. Lunch recess