Welcome to the landscape. This is your show about America's parks and public lands. I'm Erin Weiss with the center for Western priorities in Denver. And I'm Kate G in Salt Lake City. Today on the podcast, we're talking to the founder of a group called disabled Hike about what actually makes the outdoors accessible to disabled people. We're excited to get to that, but first, let's do some news. Both of Colorado Us senators are on onboard
with more protections for the Dolores River. We've talked about that proposal to designate a new national monument called Dolores Canyon, it would protect around 400000 acres of land on Colorado West slope. The proposed monument includes the largest most biodiversity diverse area of unprotected land in Colorado.
So this joint statement that we saw just before the fourth of July from senators Michael Bennett and John Hi, area It stopped just short of fully endorsing the monument proposal itself, but it is clear that the sender support the overall goals. They also said that any land protections will also need to protect existing mining, hunting, grazing and water rights, as well as recreation opportunities like Mountain biking and off
road access like the Rim rocker trail. Now all of that, is in line with what monument supporters have been calling for. Both senators have held meetings with locals around the proposed monument to get feedback on the proposal And this statement is that first official signal that they both support increasing protections for the area, the question now is how to do it. Our guest today is Cy No. They are
the founder and director of disabled hike. A non profit group seeking to make the outdoors more accessible for people with disabilities. Siren, Thank you so much for being here. It's Yeah. Thanks for inviting me. So let's start with the beginning. You you started disabled hike in 20 18. What brought that about?
Yeah. So I grew up with multiple disabilities and chronic illnesses, and it took me a really long time to kinda get into hiking and figure out that was something that I wanted to do and you know, of course, I encountered lots of obstacles and barriers and lack of understanding and all of that along the way. So in 20 18, it all kind of came to a head when I was had done, you know, all this research about kind of this 1 section of a trial
system. I done other portions of the trail system booked 4, but not this particular section, and went there expecting it to be accessible for me and immediately encountered lots of obstacles and barriers that I didn't find in my research that put me in a really dangerous situation. So there's things like, you know, Steep stairs and rocky drop offs and covered slopes and all of that.
And it, you know, again, put me in a really difficult and dangerous situation and kinda at the end of that, I just said, you know, I'm gonna do something about this, And I went home and wrote up a blog post about it and, you know, put up website and called it... Sa hike and we were born from there. Classic necessity is the mother of invention story. So what does hiking look like for you these days and what kind of hikes are accessible for you and what kind do you enjoy?
Yeah. So, you know, for me, I really enjoy. You know, kinda what is becoming more popularized as slow hiking. Really, that's just, like, accessible hiking. So, you know, for me, like, just going out on a, you fairly gentle, like, 2, 3 mile hike, and just really taking my time and enjoying the experience is what I really love to do. You know, I'm not out there, like, climbing mountains or a quote unquote conquering the wilderness or anything like that. That's... Not my jam.
So... But just, you, having slow, respectful, immersive experiences is really important to me. Since 20 18, you've you've really... I was gonna say carved out a niche, but it's I... Broader than that. You've put on events you've written trail guides, books that you've you've offered just tell us about the growth of disabled hike and some of the resources that you've been able to put together here in the last 6 years.
But Yeah. It has grown really much faster than I ever anticipated, which is exciting and challenging. So, you know, we after the website, you know, we started with the social media, and our community really grew from there. We found a lot of people online who were... You know, disabled and wanted to access the outdoors, but didn't know how didn't have community. So we started having more conversations with people through that, And then I started
writing more trial guides. I developed the spoon rating system and started writing online guides and I'm the author of 2 hiking guide books now.
And, from there, we also started doing events, where we do, entirely disabled led, disability community only, hiking events, picnic, things like that to get the community get together outdoors, and really just, you know, explore what it means to be disabled in the outdoors, What accessibility looks like, what does accessibility mean when you're with a group of cross disabled folks with people with a variety of access needs. And so just really exploring that, has been
really meaningful. And then We do a lot of work with, like, parks and organizations and and brands around access and inclusion, doing training, doing consulting. Commenting, you know, on legislation and things like that. So we're really doing a lot of different kinds of work, but it's all very grounded in the community, we are entirely disabled led. Everyone in the organization has a disability or chronic illness or is neuro, and that's really important to us.
So we really are very much grounded in our grassroots community for sure. You mentioned there the spoon reading system. What is that? Yeah. So it's kind of what some people would consider a difficulty rating system. So spoon rating is based in... The spoon theory, which is concept by Christine Miss Dino, that kind of... It's a symbol for the energy rationing, the lot of disabled and chronically ill piece... Have to do on a daily
basis. So, you know, you start the day with, like, 10 spoons and every activity you do requires a certain number of spoons. People we'll So I wanted to do something that was, you know, kind of culturally relevant to the disability chronic illness this community, and also much more objective and specific in terms of, you know, quote of what difficulty rating and accessibility. So it's on a 1 to 5
scale and each rating is very specific. So, like, a one's spoon, and it's gonna be, like, under 2 miles, flat, paved, no obstacles, you know, easy to navigate things like that, and then it goes up from there. So... So what are some of the biggest challenges and, and barriers disabled people face when they are trying to access nature and go on a hike. Yeah. 1 of the biggest barriers for sure is just lack of information and lack of
under standing. You know, so many... There's so many hiking resources available out there, but they're all written and provided from the perspective people who are not disabled, and they assume that everyone who is hiking is not disabled. So, you know, having really good up to date, clear, specific information is really important. And then, of course, you know, having access to accessible trails and accessible facilities, is, really lacking it a lot of ways
as well. You know, And it doesn't mean, like, we don't wanna pave over the wilderness. Right? Like, we're not interested in creating paved trails every wear. But, you know, making them so that they are, you know, more easy to navigate using a variety of mobility equipment and aids where providing benches, restrooms, all of those kind of amenities that help make space more accessible.
And then also just access to equipment, you know, things like even just basic wheelchairs can be really difficult for allotted disabled folks to have access to. And then when you start looking at things like all terrain wheelchairs, they are incredibly expensive. So, you know, having more parks and things like that offering those to the community. You mentioned not... It's not about paving trails,
but these other accessibility. Can you describe some more of of what that looks like from a a trail construction standpoint. Mh. Yeah. So there's, of course, there's a variety of accessibility guidelines that are out there depending on, you know, which land manager you're looking at. They all kinda have their own sets of
guidelines. But in general, you know, having things that are flat, more or less flat, very very limited, very minimal grades with a very firm and stable surface, so whether that's, you know, a natural surface or putting down, you know, hard packed peak gravel or something like that, having places to rest. Benches, you know, even, like, nice log benches, you know, things like that for people to have a you know, place to take a break, And then having it be somewhere that people want
to go. Right? I think so often and people put in an accessible trail, and it's like, oh, here's you're like, few hundred yards, it ends at, like, nothing and there you go, and that's kind of it. So really designing the trails in a in a accessible way, to be a really meaningful experience. Of course, that also benefits the non disabled community as well because having well designed, maintained trails reduces the impact on the surrounding environment. So...
Sir, what? Tips do you have for disabled people who wanna get outside And what resources from your organization? Would you recommend to somebody who's maybe just finding out about this? Yeah. I think 1 of my biggest tips that I tell people is just... It's more of an internal thing. Right? It's letting go of... All of those narratives that we have about who is a quote unquote real hike and what being outdoors means and looks like.
You know, like I said earlier, it doesn't mean climbing a mountain. It can mean as simple as going out and sitting on your porch. Or sitting on a park bench and looking at the birds, looking at the trees. That is a perfectly valid way of being outdoors, and, you know, any any way that you are in the outdoors is valid. So if that's, you, hiking a short trail and taking a break, bringing a chair with you and and resting on that trail, that's valid.
You know, I really say, like, if you are moving some way in the outdoors and wanna call yourself a hike, then you are a hike. That's all there is to it. And then in terms of resources, you know, for sure, there's our social media is big re resource, great way to connect with people. We're on Instagram and Facebook. Else also have a Facebook group. And then the website has, some trail guides on there. Right now, we've... Primarily have been working throughout
the Pacific Northwest. So, like, Western Washington, Western Oregon, and then that was my first book, My second book is coming out for Northern California and in September. So there's a lot of resources for that area there. But then on the website, there's also resources that I, kinda give you an idea of how to look for accessible trails, What kind of information to look for, And then you
can... You know, research land manager websites, other trail apps, like all trails, things like that to kinda get an idea, of where you can go. And then, you know, really just try, you know, go out there and and try it within your comfort zone and figure out, you know, what hiking means to you and what that looks like and what
is accessible for you. It definitely takes some trial and error a couple weeks ago, you and I connected, thanks to the Salt Lake Tribune story about a bill that senator Mike Leah had introduced that would prohibit federal agencies from closing 2 track roads. Basically, the the off road kinds of roads and Senator Lee, framed that Bill is being about disability access. He actually called it the outdoor Americans with Disabilities Act.
You were, not nearly as convinced about the the of Senator Lee's Bill I mean, what are your thoughts on on the Oh community in particular here using disability access as an argument for keeping roads open? Yeah. I mean, you know, of course, there's there's lots of disabled folks within the Oh community who who... Enjoy that type of activity as a way for them to be able to get outdoors, and I don't wanna discount that. You know,
that's, again, that's totally valid. But for me, it very much feels like using disability as a pawn in both to kind of open roads and not do anything else or accessibility and also using the community as pawn in a kind of a larger scheme, right, around particularly, like, government over reach and closing
roads and things like that. So it feels, you know, very dis discontinuous to me and the act doesn't really do anything to actually improve accessibility beyond opening roads, and there's so many more things that could be done to really improve it. So let's talk about those. You mentioned earlier that your group does comment on legislation sometimes. What are the policy changes and bills that you'd like to see that would make public lands more accessible. To the disability community.
Yeah. I would really like to see more collaboration with the community, you know, the as a as a community based organization, even, we have a hard time, you know, kinda getting through the bureaucratic process and connecting with decision makers first. So making it easier for them to partner with community based organizations, would be, you know, have a huge value add both to our organization and the government.
And then, you know, there's there's the Explore Act that is working its way through the legislative process and that and itself will, both allow the forest service to potentially create and open new roads, but also... Acquire those accessibility assessments and require additional accessible facilities that are needed. So, you know, that act is already going through the process, so that could have a huge benefit as well. Are there any great examples that you have
discovered? As you've been writing these books, posting your trail guides online. And anything that you have come across that you're like, wow. That is really elect executed or a really great idea that that should be, emulate more across the country.
Yeah. I'm a really big fan of trail acts us information signs, and these have been implemented pretty widely across California State parks and in some other parks across the country says and these are signs that go at the trail head of every trail that kind of
gives the basic stats on that trail. So the link, the surface, the grade, and, you know, kinda how accessible it is and how long the accessible portion is, so that anyone who shows up can write there or know whether that trail will be appropriate for them or not. So that's... I'm a big fan of those. III suppose that's worth noting. That's the sort of thing, of course, that benefits everyone, whether you consider yourself part of the disabled community. Or not because everyone has their own
individual capabilities and desires. And IIII think back to my time back in in software design, a lifetime ago, pointing out that accessible design helps absolutely everyone in in their own way because you never know whether any given day you might have more trouble hearing or typing or anything like that, having having that baked in on the front end is not just about 1 community. It's about
everyone. Yeah. Yeah. And there's such a push to, reasonably so for being, you know, more responsible in the way that we recreate and to plan ahead, but then there's not as strong of a push to provide the information that people need to be able to do that. So, yeah. Yeah. That reminds me of the lives that are lost in the Grand Canyon even just you know, like, you need to know how long you're going and you need to know how steep it's gonna be to to know
how much water to bring. So it's just big safety issue. So I think this feeds into our next question, what do non disabled Hike need to know or what can they do to create a more inclusive outdoor experience for everyone? Question Yeah. That's that's a big question.
Yeah. I think for sure, I always start with, you know, listening to the disability community and examining the able that we have all internalized all of us, but, you know, disabled folks, of course, have more of an enforced opportunity to examine that. So non disabled folks need to take the time to do that as well. And then, you know, when you encounter something that is not accessible, you know, to absolutely, talk to someone about
it. You know, it shouldn't always be on disabled folks to make those complaints and make those point out those issues. You know, the non disable community can do that as well. And then to just keep in mind, you know, whether you're hiking or riding guides or providing information or working within the industry that there is no 1 type of hike that, you know, disabled folks, absolutely our hike as well and that we deserve to be out there.
We've talked a lot about here in this conversation about physical ability and physical trail design, but you also mentioned that, your volunteers and and board members, they're also representing neuro diverse hike, can you talk a little bit about that and how neuro plays into trail accessibility? Yeah. So, you know, some... There's a lot of overlap, of course as well. So, you know, having, like, good information that people can plan ahead and know what to expect.
Is certainly an access need within a lot of neuro virgin people, having places where they can go to get away from crowds, knowing in advance, like, where there may be, like, sudden in or surprise loud noises. You know, So if I'm going to a park, You know, so I live on the Olympic Peninsula, and we have grow jets that fly over pretty regularly, and that's a huge issue for me because, you know, that's a very loud triggering sound. So knowing where those kind of things may happen is really helpful.
So, Siren, what are your plans for the future of disabled height? You've done so much already. Where is this all headed? Yeah. We, have some big plans for the
future. So we're working on, the disabled hackers network which is kind of the next phase of growth for us where we will be providing training and leadership development training and pure mentorship for disabled folks, which to be able to learn how to do things like trail assessments and lead group hikes and work with parks and organizations in their community so that we can, you know, expand our reach and, you know, build more community across the nation and the world,
So, yeah, That's kinda of the next big phase of our growth. And you know, for sure, we're, again, a grassroots nonprofit, always... Seeking funding, so we're hoping to get more more funding on board to support this work. Awesome. Well, thank you. So much for your time today. Siren Na carey founder and director of disabled Hike. It's been an absolute pleasure. Yeah. Thank you. Here's a little good news to close out
the episode. The Us forest service has approved a land swap that will permanently block hard rock mining on thousands of acres above the town of crest butte, Colorado. The deal ends the longest running mine clash in the lower 48 according to the Colorado sun. The swap includes a peak called Mount Emmy, which locals referred to as the red lady because of its pink hue. The town is fought for nearly 50 years against a proposed Moly mine on the mountain. Which is part
of the town's waters shed. The forest service will take over management of 625 acres of undeveloped parcels in in holdings across 4 ranches, as well as 15000 acres of wet lands as part of the swap. In the Mount Edmonds mining company will get 539 acres of federal land that include the company's water treatment plant, tailing storage and retention ponds.
Now the company must place conservation ease and surrender mining right on all the land it owns as part of the swap, which will prevent any new mining and development on the land while still allowing for non motorized recreation like hiking and back country skiing. Really awesome to see after a 50 year fight, what a a fabulous win win solution that is That is it for today, folks, please give us a good rating. Wherever you're listening to this right now so that other folks can
find us. And please let us know if you have thoughts, you can reach us at podcast at western priorities dot org. Always love to hear ideas and suggestions for new guests to talk to. And finally, give us a follow on Instagram or Tiktok, our colleague Sterling continues to make really great videos on there. Thanks again to Siren for speaking with us today. And as always, thank you for listening to the v landscape.