We were horrified when Hamas attacked Israel last October, but the events that followed also had an enormous impact on Palestinian believers in the Gaza Strip. Tom Doyle has been there many times. In just a few minutes, he brings us the stories of brothers and sisters who are dealing with the literal fallout. These are amazing testimonies from inside Gaza that we need to hear. Welcome to the land
and the book. Doctor Charlie Dyer is a guy who spent his entire life studying, traveling, and writing about the Middle East. I'm John Geiger, and of course, Israel has been in the news a whole lot over this past year, and the Bible is jam packed with end times prophecies about epic world events, the regathering of the Jewish people to their homeland, and Jesus return. So it's crucial for us as believers, though, to have a proper understanding of
Bible prophecy. So our view of the future is shaped by Scripture and not just today's headlines. Right, Charlie?
That's right. John. And with this in mind, our friends at Life and Messiah have published a book titled God, Israel and Bible Prophecy and are offering it to listeners of the land in the book for a limited time. This informative book is focused on providing readers with deeper understanding and greater appreciation of what God has in store for Israel and the nations by digging into what the
scriptures say about these issues. Now, if you're interested in learning more about what God has in store, visit Life in Messiah. Org and click on the Moody Radio button to find out how you can receive your copy of God, Israel and Bible Prophecy. That's life in messiah.org. Well, another.
Week has gone by, and at least up to the moment that we're recording this broadcast. Israel has yet to respond to Iran's missile attack on October the 1st. Why has Israel taken so long to respond, many wonder.
Yeah, and it could be a be multiple reasons for the delay. Now, one could be the US pressure on Israel not to attack Iran's nuclear facilities or oil production facilities. In fact, Blinken was just in Israel earlier this week and is trying to push back on Israel to not respond too harshly. The final decision still belongs to Israel, but it does take time to explore and plan for
all those different options. Another reason could be that it took time for the US to send and set up that Thad, our terminal High Altitude area defense system to Israel with additional protection against Iranian missiles. Well, that system is finally in place. Still another reason for Israel's delayed response could be the leak of US intelligence documents outlining Israel's potential attack plan. Those documents appeared on a pro-Iranian
internet site and provided information gleaned from US intelligence. This could have caused Israel to pause and reassess its plans. But all of these aren't the only items that might have caused a delay. Last year's attack took place on Simchat Torah, the final day of Sukkot. This year that occurred on Friday. So it's possible Israel waited until this one year anniversary on the religious calendar was over. A drone attack launched by Hezbollah hit Prime Minister Netanyahu's home
in Caesarea. Thankfully, he and his wife weren't there at the time. But there are reports that individuals in Iran's embassy in Beirut were involved in that attempted assassination, and that also could have changed Israel's selection of targets in Iran. And finally, Israel's broken up several Iranian spy rings in their country. One carried out hundreds of tasks, including photographing and collecting information on air bases and Israel's defense headquarters
in Tel Aviv. Another ring was working to assassinate an Israeli nuclear scientist and the mayor of a large city, and also photographing key facilities and purchasing weapons. Now, shutting down spy networks takes time, and Israel wants to make sure they know what was collected and sent to Iran. Now, all this to say, Israel hasn't been sitting around doing nothing for the past several weeks. They've they've been busy preparing and as we might say, putting out fires to
make sure their attack is successful. They're also working out plans to counter any expected Iranian response. But as I said last week, it's not a question of if Israel will respond, but when and how. And I think we could expect that response to happen very soon. In fact, it could even happen between the time we record this program and the time it airs.
Charlie, any thought that the supposed leaked documents about this attack, this is all something of a smokescreen, misdirection, spycraft on the part of Israel? Or is that not really possible?
You know, in the spy game, anything is possible. Although there are enough reports on this that it sounds like it actually was a literal leak that came out of the US defense area offices, and the information that was posted online did look credible.
Well, following last week's killing of Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar, some were hoping it would open the door for negotiations to end the conflict in Gaza and release the hostages, what impact could his death have on the war?
On the positive side, Sinwar's death eliminated the key military leader who embodied Hamas. Israel had earlier eliminated Ismail Haniyeh, who was the political leader of Hamas. But Sinwar was the architect of Hamas's attack on October 7th because he had become both the political and military head of Hamas following Haniya's death in August. Many thought his death would lead to the collapse of Hamas, and they hoped the remaining political leaders outside Gaza would then strike a deal
with Israel and agree to return the hostages. And while that might still be possible, I'm less optimistic. Some are concerned. Sinwar might have ordered all the hostages to be killed following his death, though that's not known for certain. But even more than that, Hamas's charter in its preamble says Israel will exist and continue to exist until Islam will
obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it. Their article seven quotes from the hadith saying the Day of Judgment won't come until Muslims fight Jews and kill them. And in terms of making a peace agreement or some sort of agreement with Israel. Article 13 says there is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by jihad. In other words, complete opposition to Israel is part of the
very spiritual DNA of Hamas. And in light of that, I think they're going to continue fighting and hope that Iran or Hezbollah will wear down Israel enough to have them finally agree to a cease fire, at which point Hamas would hope to regather, rebuild and eventually resume their attacks instead of releasing the hostages. I think it's just as likely they will kill them, or at least some of them, to show their contempt if there's a bright
spot in all this. It's the creative offer by the former CEO of SodaStream to give $100,000 to anyone who helps free Israeli hostages. The deadline was midnight this past Wednesday and sadly, no hostages have yet been released. But he's still hopeful. And I am as well.
You're listening to The Land and the book with our host, Doctor Charlie Dyer. We're going through a set of top headlines from the Middle East. I'm John Gager, and thank you for being a part of the broadcast. Well, Charlie, cue the theme from Raiders of the Lost Ark as we ride with Indiana Jones into the ancient city of Petra. Okay, maybe not, but archaeologists in Petra recently discovered a hidden
tomb underneath the treasury. Now, I read some about this, but what do we know so far about this discovery?
Yeah. For those who've never been to Petra, the Treasury is the building at the end of the narrow seek leading into the city. It's actually the facade of a tomb that was carved into the cliff face. Most know it from the Indiana Jones movie. That third Raiders of the Lost Ark film. And anyone who's seen the movie, well, you need to know. After Indiana Jones walks inside, everything you see is pure Hollywood. Jordan hasn't allowed people inside there since 1997, but I've been in it before then.
It really is just a large empty room with a few doorways leading into other empty rooms. That is, until now. These archaeologists unearthed a previously hidden tomb underneath the building earlier in the year. They used ground penetrating radar and discovered what they suspected was a tomb underneath the entrance. And then in August, they finally received permission to excavate. And they didn't find a hidden stash of silver or gold or the remains of the knights guarding the Holy Grail.
But they did find the remains of 12 individuals, along with miscellaneous grave goods and other typical artifacts that they thought they found. One skeleton holding a ceramic cup that actually looked like one in the movie, but it turned out to be part of a juglet. They filmed the excavation, which aired as part of the Discovery Channel's Expedition Unknown
television series, and actually aired on October 9th. Now, if you want to see that program, you can check online to see how you can access that episode in your area.
Well, everybody knows olive oil is definitely healthy, but the solid waste left behind is not until now. Fen Olive, an Israeli startup, has developed an innovative process to turn the waste from processing olives into gluten free flour. Tell us about this latest innovation from Amazing Israel.
Yeah, this I did find fascinating as well. After olives are crushed and squeezed for the oil. About 85% of the olive remains behind is pulp, which until now has been useless. It's toxic, acidic and smelly. Within 15 minutes of being squeezed, the waste matter starts to oxidize, leaving what's left unfit for human or animal consumption. And that's where Fen Olive sensed an opportunity to profit by doing good. After several years of research, they developed and patented a
process to transform olive oil waste into olive flour. The flour is tasty, gluten free and high fiber, and can be used as a replacement for any flour in cooking or baking. Their process divides the waste into three components the pulp, which is transformed into the flour, the black water or waste water from pressing, and the olive seeds which can then be used for fuel. The process doesn't use chemicals or additives, and after separation the pulp is
dried and ground into flour. The company is now in discussion with major olive millers in Israel and Europe on how to add the process into existing press operations. Turning olive processing waste into high quality, nutritious, low carb and low calorie flour to aid olive growers, processors and customers alike. That definitely sounds like something we would expect from Amazing Israel.
Thank you Charlie. A few weeks back, you sent an email saying, John, you better get Ahold of Tom Doyle. He's got reports coming out of Gaza that our listeners need to hear, and I'm grateful for that tip. And boy, the conversation we're about to have with Tom will bring you stories from believers inside Gaza, their testimonies, their stand for Jesus as something that will encourage you. So I hope you'll stick around, and I hope you'll share us with a friend, by the way. Our website is The
land and the book. Org. Tom Doyle next on the land and the book. When Hamas slaughtered more than 1100 Israelis on October the 7th, our hearts were shattered. But in the year that has followed the pain, the destruction and the loss of life on both sides of the border has been horrific. There's an untold story in all of this. The impact of the war on believers in
Gaza will take you there. Coming up first, though, let's pause for a creative idea on reaching out to our Muslim friends and neighbors with the gospel of Christ right here at home. One of the things you will encounter immediately, every time you talk with a muslim, is the issue that Jesus in their world, is definitely not the Son of God. So how can we possibly hope to have a conversation that doesn't get confrontational, but yet somehow conveys Jesus is the Son of God. Let's ask Stefano Fare,
who's with call of Hope. How do we do this?
Well, you know, John, I'm so often asked, how do I persuade the Muslim that Jesus is the Son of God? And I usually answer and say, we don't. We don't persuade them. We cannot. And I think that's the most important to learn. The only person who can persuade them is God himself. We can talk about it. Batteries. Give them a gospel. Gospel of John or a Gospel of Luke. Let them read and then just let the Lord do the work. We cannot persuade. We can just testify what
we believe. But the Lord will do it. You know, I asked a friend of mine who was a muslim. I said, do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God? Yes. How did this come? He says, I don't know. It was there. The Lord gave it to me. I was able to accept it right away.
Only the Lord can convince their hearts. So let's not try and wrench it in and somehow argue them into heaven. Stefano Ferrer is with call of Hope. Thanks for that very practical advice. Few Christians today have spent as much time meeting, loving and serving the people of Gaza as Tom Doyle. Tom fell in love with the Middle East on his first Bible Tour of the Holy Land in 1995. He became an official tour guide for the State of Israel and developed a passion for ministering to the Israeli people,
Arabs and Jews alike. Tom and his wife Joanne felt a call from God to full time ministry there in 2001. In 2017, the Doyles launched Uncharted Ministries, which seeks to inspire the body of Christ to rise up and join the the New Great Awakening among Jews and Muslims in the Middle East and in uncharted territories around the world. Well, Tom and Joanne, interestingly, began working in the heart of the Islamic world shortly after the terrorist attacks of September 11th.
And they serve in places like Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Syria and Palestinian territories of Israel. It's great to welcome you back to the land and the book, Tom.
Oh, it's so good to be with you, John. Thank you. Well, before.
We move into the war, introduce us to some of your most beloved brothers and sisters in Gaza. You've been there many times. Who would you like us to get to know?
Yeah, well, you know, we've worked with a church in Gaza, the Gaza Baptist Church, that's an above ground church. And awesome what they've been able to withstand in the midst of the wars and continual Hamas control. But our heart really goes out to the secret church, the believers that have come out of Islam, that have stayed in Gaza, that are one by one, reaching other Muslims with the gospel of Jesus. And you talk about a receptive crowd.
Even during this war, one of our friends, Muhammad, tells us that 20 to 30 people have come to faith in Christ. Just hearing the scriptures, just listening to the claims of Jesus, and just kind of comparing that to what they're seeing with Hamas and the hatred that that group, terrorist group has of their own people. And so on October 7th, John, as everybody was horrified and I always say this, it seemed like Israel got about two hours
of sympathy and then the world just turned on them. Muhammad, a muslim background believer who is like an apostle Paul in Gaza, was texting and saying, we're being forced by Hamas to watch the parade of all the people that Hamas took. And he said, the people are cheering. And he said, But I'm standing here crying because no human being should be treated that way. So it's horrible. We're praying for them, and we're also praying for the believers in Gaza as they seek to spread the message. But
think about this, John. At one point, there was a chance for these Muslim background families to get out and leave, and you could pay a fee for them to leave and go to Egypt and be out of the war, because there's continual bombings every day, and they're living in tents and all of that. And we were able to get some funds to them for them to leave. We didn't hear from them for a few days. And then finally they got Ahold of us and they said, we
can't leave. We can't leave our people. God's called us to stay here, no matter how difficult it is. We may die, but we need to tell them about Jesus. We're staying. And if you've watched some of the news, and I'm sure you have the people that are listening, you know how immensely scary it would be for children to be near the bombs. The Gaza Strip is not a big area and they can't completely get away from it.
So the light of the world still shining in Gaza, not leaving, not running away, sharing the message of Jesus. And we're just privileged to know incredible believers like that.
This is the land and the book. I'm John Gager. Our guest, Tom Doyle, who along with his wife Joanne, began working in the heart of the Islamic world shortly after the terrorist attacks of September 11th. Let me ask you, is it even possible for you guys to minister to Gazan believers from a distance? And if so, what does that look like right now?
Yeah, there's actually ways to communicate on the internet. We have to be careful. You cannot be too specific because there's no separation. It's not like the bad guys live over here and the good guys live here, right? They're in a refugee camp. And the refugee camp that they're in is the one that actually started the war with Israel. And so there's known terrorists there. And so they have to be careful with what they say and how they communicate. But just to see the faithfulness in the midst of
living like that is so inspiring to us. And you know, John, for what you see on the news, these are people that have been redeemed. They've come out of the false religion of Islam, and they don't hate Israel. They wish they could live in Israel, and they wish that Hamas would be removed so they don't have to live under their tyranny. So, um, we are truly blessed to be
able to even communicate with them. And then there's Muhammad, who is like the apostle Paul in Gaza that just sends these incredibly beautiful prayers to us and asking how we're doing. I mean, the last video we saw, they have 29 people living in one tent and the rain is coming through, and he's asking about how I'm doing. I had a recent health situation develop where I have cancer and I'm going through treatments at MD Anderson, and
it's aggressive and we're asking people to pray. And there's Muhammad not even talking about his situation, saying, how are you doing, dear Tom? Praying. That's the faith of the believers that inspire us to live for Jesus. As we see horrible things happening in our country that we're not able to change. But you know what? We can live for Christ and be salt and light in the midst of it, just like they are in Gaza. Mm.
Well, Tom, since you're seeing so many doctors, I'm going to ask you to play a doctor right now. All right, here's the question, doctor. Tom, what is wrong with our hearts? Too many of us paint the entire Palestinian population with one brush. These guys hate God's chosen people. They started a horrible war. How can we have compassion on them? But that's neither fair nor kind. Help us with our heart trouble. Tom.
Yeah. I just think it's easy to take a snapshot of a people group and then just color them all the same way, and, I mean, it goes back, John, to the very first time I went into the Gaza Strip in 2001, got out of a taxi cab and was in Gaza City. So this is like maybe two months after nine over 11, and a muslim woman makes a beeline for me and comes up and actually grabs my forearm. I was shocked because they don't do that, you know, Muslim woman touching a man. She grabs my forearm.
I said yes, and she said, you're from America, aren't you? And I said, yes, I am. And she said, well, I could tell by the color of your eyes. So. Oh, okay. And she said, did you see on September 11th, when the buildings fell in America and they showed people in Gaza cheering and giving candy and celebrating. And did you see that? And I said, well, yes, I did. And she said, well, not me. I was crying for those people because they didn't deserve to die. And I'm so
sorry that happened. Please forgive us. And she tapped her chest to motion. She's tapping her heart and she turned on her heel and walked away. And you know what thought went through my mind, John? I thought this. There's human beings in Gaza. Yeah, they're not all in terrorist groups. I mean, they don't all think that way. And of course, the believers don't either. There are some people that that
have a heart. And of course, Hamas is just swept over Palestinians who honor them more now in Gaza because of what they've done. But that doesn't mean there's everyone and of course, the remnant of the church. They think completely the opposite in Gaza.
What is it that holds the people of Gaza back from turning to Christ? What are the biggest hurdles spiritually, when you minister there? What are you observing?
If there is no fear of retribution, I wonder if anybody would be a muslim there except Hamas, because they're so thoroughly fed up with what the terrorist groups have done and how they've controlled them. Gaza sits on a beach. It's just miles from Ashdod and Ashkelon. This could be an incredible place for people to go and vacation. Yes. If it wasn't an enclave for terrorism. And the people are so sick about how they have been destroyed. But
they are kept in fear. And because the Quran tells Muslims that they must fight against Christians and Jews because they rejected Muhammad. This has become holy to them, this war. This is this is becoming holy by keeping this war going on. It's an act of sacrifice for them to please Allah. And there are so many Muslims that are not buying it and saying, we want out. We don't want this. We don't want the sole objective of the Palestinian people to be wipe out Israel. And that's it.
And so it's all out of fear. John, we have I found the truth.com. And when we first started playing videos of former Muslims that we film coming to faith in Christ. We were seeing about 4000 people a month watch them and we thought, okay, Lord, that's great. We wish there were more, right? We kept praying, kept working on things. Now, since October 7th, it's between 1 and 2 million a month. Wow. And the questions we're getting, the people that are saying, tell me more about Jesus.
What do I do? I live here, it's dangerous. Can we communicate privately? There are so many that are thoroughly fed up with Islam. We're never going to see them on the news, but we just have to believe in faith. God's going to move in their hearts and bring them to faith in Christ.
Tom Doyle is our guest today on the land and the book. He's the founder of Uncharted Ministries. How about if we pause right now and we just give you some space to pray an unhurried prayer for the situation in Gaza?
Lord Jesus, we know that only you can transform a person's heart. Only you can transform an entire people group. And we believe, Lord, it's going to start with the next generation. So we pray, Lord, for a great awakening in Gaza of people turning to faith in Christ, leaving Islam. And we pray, father, for this next generation, that they would get thoroughly acquainted by ministries that come alongside each other and work in the Gaza Strip so they can
know who Jesus is. And Jesus called people to love one another, and they are growing up on a steady diet of hatred and a goal of wiping out a
people group. Turn their hearts. Father, we pray that believers would flood the Gaza Strip with the love of Jesus, and this next generation of children would grow up not dressing up as suicide bombers when they're two and three years old, but dressing up as Bible characters, as people that have made a difference for Christ, who have seen amazing miracles, who have touched their whole people group, who have gone as missionaries to some of the worst places
in the world. It starts with the children. God, would you do a holy awakening among them so this next generation can follow Jesus and not follow terrorism? And we pray, Lord, that this place would be a place that the world could look at and there would be no discussion needed. Jesus transformed this place. Jesus invaded the Gaza Strip and turned it from a place that we associate with hate
to a place that we associate with love. So, father, we just pray for your spirit to move and for thousands to come to faith in Christ in this next generation, to be the ones that lead the way and turn Gaza into a place of not cursing, but blessing. And we pray this in the mighty name of Jesus. Amen.
Amen. And let's continue to pray for Gaza throughout the days and weeks ahead. Thank you, Tom Doyle. Always a great visit. You bring the best stories and thanks for that prayer as well. Amen.
Thank you John, my privilege. Thank you.
And we'll continue to pray for you in your own health journey there and that whole challenge. And right now we want to welcome you to our next segment. It's Charlie Dyer back in the studio with Bible questions and answers here. Next on the land and the book. Of John. Hope your day is going well, and I hope the land in the book is encouraging you along your journey. I'm John Geiger with our host, Doctor Charlie Dyer, and again, we just appreciate your taking the time to spend with
us here at The Land and the book. Well, Charlie Israel has been in the news so much this last year and the Bible is jam packed, of course, with end times prophecies, epic world events, the regathering of the Jewish people to their ancient homeland and ultimately Jesus return. It seems to me it's crucial for us as believers to have a proper understanding of Bible prophecy. So our view of the future is shaped by Scripture and not just today's headlines. Right?
Yeah, it's definitely true. And with that in mind, our friends at Life and Messiah have published a book titled God, Israel and Bible Prophecy and are offering it to listeners of the land in the book for a limited time. This informative book is focused on providing readers with a deeper understanding and greater appreciation of what God has in store for Israel and the nations by digging into what
the scriptures say about these issues. Now, if you're interested in learning more about what God has in store, visit Life in Messiah. Org and click on the Moody Radio button there to find out how you can receive your copy of God, Israel and Bible Prophecy. That's life in messiah.org.
Never a shortage of questions as people open their Bibles, open their minds, read and ponder and we're always open to your questions. By the way, you can send yours to Charlie at the land and the book@moody.edu. Let's dig in. Here's Marilyn's question. Can you help me understand the difference between the angel's response to Zechariah's apparent doubt in Luke one versus the angel's response to Mary's question in the same chapter? Why wasn't she judged for her apparent doubt?
I think the key is to look carefully at the objections raised by both Zechariah and Mary. When Zechariah responded to the angel's promise by saying, literally, how can I know this? Most translations add something like how can I know this for sure? Or how can I be certain to give the full sense of the question? His objection was that both he and his wife were old. He obviously understood the mechanics of how a wife could get pregnant, but he felt the promise couldn't be fulfilled because of
their age and past inability to conceive. So he was doubting God's ability to do something that really God had shown to be possible in the past. As a priest, he should have remembered the stories about Samson's mother, Samuel's mother, and the child born to the Shunammite woman in the days of Elisha in two Kings four. Now, in contrast to the announcement made to Zachariah, the announcement to Mary was unprecedented. When the angel told her she was going
to conceive in her womb and bear a son. Her her objection was really based on biological reality. How can this be since I'm a virgin? Up till this point in history, no child had ever been born apart from a man and a woman having sexual relations. So I don't see Mary doubting God's promise as much as expressing a lack of understanding about the process itself. Once the angel explained how it would take place, Mary immediately displayed
a humble spirit of submission and faith. I'm the Lord's servant, she said. May it be to me as you have said so I see a real difference in their responses. Zechariah doubted God's ability to do something for him and his wife that God had already clearly done in the past.
Mary only wondered how a woman could get pregnant apart from having sexual relations, something that was really a physical impossibility up till then, and her attitude following the explanation showed her immediate acceptance and submission to what God said, even when it seemed physically impossible.
Bill takes us to the upcoming elections, saying, I've encountered three major reasons that people use for not voting at all for either party. One, in the end, is that you are voting for a person and both persons are evil. Second, voting for the lesser evil is still evil, and we should not vote for evil to support what's right. And third, this is a new one to me. He says Christians should not vote because God, Christ is King and we are rejecting God as king by voting for a human government.
This is based, they say, in first Samuel eight. What do you say?
Well, I think his response to the individuals demonstrates great wisdom. But the key difference between Bible times and today is that in both the Old and New Testament, people really didn't have a say in who was in charge. They didn't vote for a king or for the Roman emperor, but they could rest in the knowledge that God set up and took down kings, and their responsibility was to obey those in authority. So when Paul wrote Romans 13 one,
you obey those in authority. Nero was the emperor. However, since God put us under the authority of a government that allows us to have a say in who can lead, I believe participating in the election process is part of placing ourselves in obedience to the authority over us. Christ was King of kings at the time of Nero. Yet Paul still said in Romans 13, be subject to the governing authorities. The authorities that existed had been established by God.
To deliberately choose not to participate by voting, in one sense, is rebelling against the system of government to which were to be in obedience. Rulers, both in Bible times and today. They're not always believers. They they weren't then. They aren't today. In many cases. And yet we're to pray for them. First Timothy two. We're to submit to them as long as they don't demand that we disobey God. In acts chapter four, it says that in the system of government
God has provided for us. I believe one way to obey God is to vote for the person or party most aligned with his values. No system is perfect, but choosing not to vote is simply being unwilling to take time to carefully and prayerfully seek God's will in the matter. The bottom line is that I believe you're right on target. We do have the freedom in our country to choose not to vote, but those who choose to do so also need to understand they're choosing to accept the results
of that choice. Personally, I never tell someone whom they need to vote for, but I do encourage them to know what the issues are that are at stake in any election, and then to seek God's wisdom to do what's best.
Norm says, I thought one of your recent guests answers was inaccurate. He suggested a prophetic sign Is Israel coming back to the land in 1948? But this was a political result of Zionism. The Bible says that the Messiah is to regather Israel. Can you clarify, please?
Yeah, actually, I think both positions are correct. Now let me explain. It's true that at his return, Jesus will gather the nation and bring them back to the land. And that's mentioned in passages like Jeremiah chapter 30. Jeremiah chapter 31. Ezekiel 36 mentions it. Jesus himself said it in Matthew 24, verses 30 and 31. But it's also true that Israel are certainly a part of the nation has to be in the land before the start of
the seven year tribulation period. They need to be there so the Antichrist can confirm a covenant with them for seven years. And so the temple can be rebuilt and then defiled. That's mentioned in Daniel 927 and in second Thessalonians two, and in revelation 11. In Matthew 24, Jesus describes that defilement of the temple and says, let those who are in Judea then flee. Will they have to be in Judea if they're going to flee from that point?
I think the best passage that helps me know all these things together is Ezekiel 38 and 39, that invasion of Gog and Magog in 38. It says the invasion takes place following the return of the nation to the land. He says in future years, God will invade a land that's recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many
nations to the mountains of Israel. But at the end of the passage, once the war has happened, once God has defeated the enemy, God says a key result of the battle is the return of Israel to the land. So in chapter 39 he says, therefore, this is what the sovereign Lord says, I will now bring Jacob back from captivity and have compassion on all the people of Israel.
So they're there before the battle. But one of the results of the battle is that God brings them back, which tells me that there has to be a remnant in Israel prior to the start of the fulfillment of those end time prophecies.
You're listening to the land and the book with our host, Doctor Charlie Dyer, and your questions are welcome at the land and the book@moody.edu. Dale asks, is it possible that the events described in Ezekiel 38 and 39 are the same as the battle of Armageddon?
Yeah. Isn't it interesting, John, that suddenly our questions just tend to come in on the same subject and we present them in the order they come in, but in this case, two different people, but two different questions on that passage. Well, I don't see the Battle of Gog Magog and the Battle of Armageddon being the same event, uh, the Battle of Magog in Ezekiel 38 and 39 is said to occur when Israel's in the land in peace
and safety. In fact, he says, in the very beginning, he will invade a land that's recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations. And now all of them live in safety. And the man says, I'm going to attack a peaceful and unsuspecting people. Well, that's true for Israel during the first half of the coming tribulation period, but not for the second half. And that's important, because the gathering at Armageddon prior to the battle of the
seven year period is in revelation 16. It's one of the last bowls of judgment right toward the end of the tribulation period. The difference in timing tells me that the battles take place at different times. So the battle of Gog Magog happens when Israel is back in the
land at peace. The gathering at Armageddon takes place at the end of the tribulation, just before Christ's return, which is a time when Israel has been experiencing incredible difficulty and troubles, according to what Jesus said in Matthew 24. I personally think the battle of Armageddon is really a gathering at Armageddon, or a campaign at Armageddon rather than the final battle, because the battle doesn't actually take place until right at the time of Christ's return.
Ghani has a question for us. In my personal study of the life of Paul, I came across what seems to be a contradiction in the Bible concerning the time of his conversion on the way to Damascus. Can you help me out here? Acts nine verse seven says that those who were with Paul heard a voice but saw no one. But in chapter 22, verse nine, it says, they saw the light, but they did not hear the voice of him who spoke with Paul. What's going on?
Yeah, I actually remember this coming up during my second year in Greek in Bible College, which takes me back a long time. Uh, while in English those verses do appear to contradict, in Greek they don't. The Greek word for hearing in both is acuo, which can have a range of meaning when it's followed by a word in the accusative case, which is what it is in chapter nine.
It refers to the extent of hearing that is. In this verse Paul says they actually heard something being spoken, but when it was followed by a word in the genitive case, as in chapter 22, it's referring to the meaning of the sound. That is, those who are traveling with Paul didn't understand what was being said, even though they did hear something. So both statements are correct in the way a quote uses each one within its context.
And I think the NIV, the New American Standard, and the ESV all try to convey that sense in their translations.
I have loved these questions today, especially those that point us toward the future. And your question is welcome again at the land and the book@moody.edu. Hey, when was the last time you visited our website? Lots of cool stuff there and you'll find us at The Land and the book.org. I'm looking forward to Charlie Dyer's devotional. It's next. When you're in a desert. Water is liquid gold. Nothing is
more important or precious than water. Charlie, you have spent enough time in Israel's deserts to know firsthand the importance of water, I presume?
Absolutely. And I've seen people who didn't have enough water and got into trouble as a result.
And yet, water in the desert is the focus of your devotional coming up, right?
Absolutely.
All right. We're looking forward to that conversation. His devotional following this Holy Land experience. Let's check out this testimony.
Hi, my name is Judy and this is my Holy Land experience. One of the things that has impressed me as we tour around Israel is the many people groups who are here. Some of them are visiting from other countries. Some of them are indigenous to this area. But I see that many tribes and many tongues, and it's happening right here, right in front of our very eyes, and I can imagine it happening in the New Jerusalem.
Hi, my name is Mary and this is my Holy Land experience, a trip that I've looked forward to for a long time, and now it is a reality. And what I am experiencing is the Bible coming alive in front of my eyes, seeing all of those things that we read about in the Bible and hearing about them and Charlie telling us about them. And the history has just been completely amazing.
Water in the desert. Where are we going today, Charlie?
Well, we're going to head to job chapter 38 and Isaiah 35, and I'm going to try and put those two passages together. But right now, as our bus pulls into the parking lot here at Qumran, I first want to give you a chance to use the restrooms. We'll then meet over by the entrance and walk out onto the site. And be sure to bring your headset along because the site could be crowded. Okay, we've all done so follow me out onto the site. Now I'm going
to take you on an abbreviated tour of Qumran. We're skipping most of the ruins and heading out to the covered area there in the distance. What makes Qumran special are the ancient scrolls discovered here, the Dead Sea Scrolls. But those scrolls aren't here now. They're in Jerusalem. And had they not been discovered here, this site would never have become a national park. The site itself is actually something of a disappointment, though the discovery made here is
one of the most significant in the past 100 years. Okay, we're now out at the overlook. Just across the way is the most iconic photo you will see from Qumran Cave four. The different caves in this area are numbered based on the order in which the scrolls were discovered. This cave contained the largest number of scrolls and fragments found. In fact, over 75% of the Dead Sea Scrolls and
scroll fragments collected so far were found in this one cave. Now, on most trips, I'll share briefly about the history of Qumran and the Essenes, and then turn everyone loose, and some of you can explore the rest of the site, while others can shop in the store, and others can go to the snack area and purchase a soda or ice cream. But before we scatter, let me point out one other detail. Qumran has no natural water supply like
a stream or a well. It existed because of the rainfall that fell up in the mountains and rushed down the cliffs just in front of you. If you look carefully at the cliffs, you can trace a line down where the rocks change color. If there's a heavy rain up in the hills, the water rushes into the canyons in the wilderness and eventually becomes a roaring waterfall, cascading down the face of the cliff and through the gorge
just below. On the way to the Dead Sea. The Essenes who lived here diverted some of that water into Qumran to fill their cisterns and reservoirs, and that's where they received the water that sustained them through the rest of the year. Now, standing here right now, it's hard to imagine that a community, even a relatively small community, could survive from such infrequent floods. But a number of years ago, I was here when just such a flood
took place. In fact, the water washed across the road below and trapped us here for two hours, but I didn't mind at all. The water pouring over the side and down the cliff face was absolutely majestic. It was dark brown from all the dirt being carried along by the force of the current. That was one of my aha moments in Israel, because it shined a spotlight on several passages from the Bible. And while we're here, let me share some of those with you. The first comes
from the Book of Job. Job and his friends engaged in a protracted debate over the cause for job's misfortune. In job six, job said his friends were as undependable as the desert wadis that overflow with water in the winter, but that ceased to flow in the dry season and in the heat vanish from their channels. They were around when things were going well, but when things got tough, their help vanished, like the water in those wadis that
stopped flowing in the summer. The cycle of debate between job and his friends ends when God himself shows up to question job, and God asked a series of questions to demonstrate the job. That job also didn't understand how life really works. God asked, who cuts a channel for the torrents of rain and a path for the thunderstorm to water? A land where no man lives, a desert with no one in it, to satisfy a desolate wasteland
and make it sprout with grass. Why did God design a system that sends torrents of rain down channels in deserted regions? God provides water to cause grass to sprout in areas where even humans don't live. And God asked job to explain why he designed it that way, which of course, job wasn't able to do. More than a thousand years after the time of job, the prophet Isaiah used the same imagery of streams in the desert to picture God's coming, deliverance, redemption, and blessing for his people.
Here's part of how he describes it in Isaiah 35. The desert and the parched land will be glad. The wilderness will rejoice and blossom like the crocus. It will burst into bloom. It will rejoice greatly and shout for joy. Then, picking up in verses six and seven, he adds, water will gush forth in the wilderness and streams in the desert. The scorched land will become a pool. The thirsty ground, bubbling springs in the haunts where jackals once lay. Grass
and reeds and papyrus will grow. God's promised deliverance will be as dramatic as a roaring wall of water sweeping through the wilderness, turning the dead barren ground into a carpet of green. Watching the normally barren cliffs above Qumran turn almost instantly into a roaring waterfall was impressive. Not actually. It was awe inspiring. If you want to see what I mean, go to our land in the Book Facebook page and watch the short video I'll post there, which
I took on that day. In other trips, I saw the impact those storms had on the wilderness itself. I have photos of red, yellow and white flowers dotting hillsides carpeted in fresh green grass. I watched shepherds lead their flocks and herds to graze on hillsides that, just a few weeks before, seemed to be covered in nothing but rock.
God's presence shone in his ability to bring rain to even the most barren of locations in Israel's wilderness was a visible object lesson to the people of the land from the time of job and throughout the Old Testament. The God who could bring about streams in the desert was the God who also promised to strengthen the feeble hands, steady the knees that give way, and say to those with fearful hearts, be strong, and do not fear. Isaiah's message of hope from the streams in the desert was
that God will come to save you. Well, it's time to head back into the store to grab a snack. You can also shop, but be sure to use the restrooms one last time before we head south for our long drive to the hotel. Before we leave though, what lessons can you take with you from your time here? Looking at the barren cliffs above Qumran. Let me suggest two. First, remember from job that we don't always understand God's ways. Job felt abandoned by his friends and by his God.
He had no clue about the cosmic battle between God and Satan taking place over his life. He felt forsaken by God. Though God told Satan, job was the prime example of a person who was blameless and upright. God had to remind job that job didn't understand how everything in the world fit together, but that God did. Those cliffs above us are reminders that we might face obstacles
that seem powerful and daunting. But we have a God who's infinitely greater and who loves us with a love that will keep us through the desert times in our lives. He understands even when we don't. And then second, remember from Isaiah that in the proper time God will send his streams in the desert. He can replace barrenness with blessing and discouragement with deliverance. You might not see it right now, but I can assure you that there are times when a section of that cliff will be obscured
by a cascading river of water. The timing belongs to God, but he will come, just as he said in Isaiah 35 verse four. Whatever your current struggles, whatever spiritual drought you might be experiencing, keep looking up, be strong, do not fear, and then watch for God to bring his time of spiritual refreshing just for you.
Well, I love that reminder that hope is there. Thank you Charlie. Great devotional as always, and the entire program is yours to listen to at our website, The Land and the book org. Head to our Facebook page to check out that waterfall video Charlie's talking about as well. That'll do it for our program today. I'm John Gager for our producer, Dan Anderson. Our host, Charlie Dyer. Have
a great day. Thanks for listening to The Land and the book, a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.