Bible Seminary in Jordan! - podcast episode cover

Bible Seminary in Jordan!

Apr 06, 202447 min
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Most of the Bible’s events unfolded in Israel. But not all. In fact, many key moments took place on the other side of the Jordan River. But would you believe that believers today in modern Jordan have access to quality Bible training? You’ll discover some of what God is doing in Jordan as you listen to The Land and the Book. 

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Transcript

S1

If someone told you that the Middle East country of Jordan has a theological seminary, would you believe them? Actually it's true, and the stories coming out of this school are amazing. Best of all, you'll hear them when you join us. Now this is the land and the book. A one hour look at everything happening in the Middle East will also answer a fascinating set of listener Bible questions. And our host, Doctor Charlie Dyer, invites you to join him for a climb with a view and a lesson

that's all ahead on the land and the book. I'm John Yeager and Charlie Passover will soon be upon us. One of the traditional Passover questions is what makes this night different from all others? Well, Passover is an important biblical holiday that has great meaning for both Jewish people and believers in Jesus. So I think it's an important question to ask, right?

S2

Absolutely, John. In fact, if people want to learn more about what makes Passover so special, well, our friends at Life in Messiah are offering to make you a free copy of their messianic Passover Haggadah. The booklet will lead you through the celebration of Passover to see the rich connections to Jesus, our Messiah, and the Last Supper. You'll also receive a link for an interactive Passover Seder video with the Haggadah and video. You can celebrate Passover this

year with your family and friends. To get this free offer, just go to Life in Messiah org and click on the Moody Radio button to find out more and request your copy. That's life in Messiah.

S1

Org and if you're new to the land in the book, this opening segment brings you a look at current events from the entire Middle East region. Our first story, Israel's Supreme Court, has now ruled that the country's mandatory military draft must be extended to all ultra-Orthodox Jews. That's kind of a blockbuster move, it seems, Charlie, to me. What's the history behind this ruling, and what impact could it have on Israel's society at large and on the current coalition government?

S2

Yeah, John, this decision has been called a bombshell since the founding of Israel in 1948. The state has exempted the ultra-Orthodox from serving in the armed forces, and has instead subsidized their study of the Torah and rabbinic literature at more than 1200 religious schools, collectively called yeshivas. In the early days, this wasn't a major problem, with about 400 being exempt back in the 1950s, but the ultra-Orthodox

population has grown dramatically. They're now 10% of the total population, and are expected to increase to 16% in several years because of their large families. The number now exempt from the draft is over 60,000 and growing. And this has created resentment, especially among secular Israelis, who feel they're carrying an increasingly heavier burden. The current war with Hamas has

now given the debate a greater sense of urgency. The Supreme Court ruled that all religious Jews are subject to the draft, and that the government is to freeze financial support for yeshiva students who are of enlistment age. What's uncertain is what will happen next. Past efforts to draft

religious students has resulted in mass protests. The two religious parties in the current coalition have threatened to resign from the coalition and bring down the government if their voters are forced to enlist, and the chief Sephardic rabbi said will all move abroad if they force us to go into the army. However, it's unclear exactly how serious that threat might be since they don't know where they could move or how they would support themselves once they got there.

But their threat to bring down the current government is very real. Prime Minister Netanyahu is working hard to try to keep that from happening, but his available options are limited now. One suggestion that's been offered is to establish a settlement defense authority, and to use the ultra-Orthodox to guard the more than 200 settlements in the West Bank and along the border with Gaza. However, it's unclear if that would be acceptable to the courts, the ultra-Orthodox community

or the settlements. What is clear is that this is a major threat to the current coalition.

S1

Story number two President Biden is trying to thread the needle, so to speak, in supporting Israel while also trying to placate those in his support base who are anti-Israel. What impact does this having on the war against Hamas?

S2

Yeah, after some very negative comments, almost threats against Israel by some of his supporters of the president's trying to walk a very narrow path to try to mollify those who are against supporting Israel because of the devastation in Gaza. The president went out of his way to acknowledge what he called the pain being felt by many Arab Americans over the war in Gaza, and he admitted that part of the pain came from the US support for Israel

and its military. He announced he was working to increase humanitarian aid into Gaza, establish a ceasefire to last at least six weeks and free the hostages. He also publicly expressed outrage at Israel's accidental killing of international aid workers in Gaza, saying Israel hasn't done enough to protect aid

workers there. But at the same time, the administration. Quietly approved the sale of additional bombs and F-35 fighter jets to Israel, and they signal to Israel they understand Israel's position regarding its opposition to demands being made by Hamas in the hostage negotiations. The major sticking point between the US and Israel right now remains Rafah, both in the large number of refugees located there and the Hamas force still in control there. Israel is insisting it needs to

go into Rafah to eliminate Hamas. Both Israel and the US agree that Hamas needs to be eliminated, the hostages need to be freed, and the people of Gaza need to be allowed to return home and rebuild. But the sticking point remains how to accomplish those goals. Right now, the two are not in agreement with the US telling Israel its Rafah plan is not viable. So we'll have

to wait and see what happens. But it looks like right now that any invasion of Rafah might be put off till late April, more likely in May if it ever happens at all.

S1

Well, Charlie, the war in Gaza will eventually come to an end. But could it be followed by an even greater conflict with Hezbollah? What's the latest on the tensions along Israel's border with Lebanon?

S2

Well, the official US position right now is that we don't support a war in Lebanon between Israel and Hezbollah. Instead, we hope to restore calm along the border by establishing the ceasefire between Israel and Hamas, since that's the main reason Hezbollah has said it's firing at Israel. However, while diplomatic efforts on the part of the US and France go on, Israel is bracing for what they see as a short but intense war with Hamas. There are two

reasons Israel's perspective diverges so much from the US. First, 80,000 Israelis have been forced from their homes along the border with Lebanon. Businesses up there have been devastated. Their lives have come to a halt for the past six months, and they won't go back until it's safe to do so. And second, Israel believes Hezbollah when they say their goal is the elimination of the state of Israel. Hezbollah has attacked tunnels just like Hamas did. Their cache of rockets

and missiles dwarfs that of Hamas. What Hamas did in the South is what Hezbollah has said it will do in the north, and Israel won't allow that to happen. Israel is saying that the UN Security Council Resolution 1701 must be implemented, and that Hezbollah's forces must be moved north of the Litani River to be replaced with regular

Lebanese Army forces. So far, each side has stopped short of launching an all out attack, but the level of violence is increasing, including an Israeli strike in Damascus that killed an Iranian commander responsible for Iranian support in Lebanon and Syria. Now, unless the US and France can get Hezbollah to move north, it's only a matter of time

until Israel does attack. They can't have 80,000 citizens, remain permanent refugees from their own homes, and they can't allow Hezbollah to keep its forces along the border.

S1

Well, conflict in the Middle East might continue, but so does the medical research taking place in amazing Israel. Tell us about a novel treatment for age related macular degeneration, AMD, that researchers there believe could be just over the horizon?

S2

Yeah, 200 million people worldwide suffer from age related macular degeneration over the next 15 years. That number is expected to grow to nearly 300 million. One out of every eight people in the West over the age of 60 can expect to develop AMD. Now, AMD has two stages dry AMD comes first. You can't lose your sight from it, but at the same time there's no treatment for it.

It's then followed by wet AMD. Now there are treatments available for wet AMD, but not everyone responds to those treatments, and that lack of response can eventually lead to blindness. And that's where Professor Ofra Beni, co-founder of Foresight Pharma, comes in. She's identified a molecule that can target and potentially stop the formation of excess blood vessels in the eye, preventing the worst effects of wet AMD. So far, the molecule has only been tested on animals, though with very

promising results. Human trials are still a few years away. The company plans to target the US market first, and the name or site was chosen deliberately. In addition to the word sight in the name, the first part of the brand, or in Hebrew, means light. Their goal is to bring light to people's eyes to keep them from going blind. Now the treatment is still down the road, but for those diagnosed with dry AMD who are concerned about progressing to wet AMD, this solution from amazing Israel

can't come soon enough. And if listeners want more information, Google or Sight Pharma, that's o r c t Pharma and keep tabs on what they're doing.

S1

Well, here's something you should know about Charlie the Moody radio team. That would be you and me and our wives are just back from Israel. We have just finished a one hour special Inside Israel the War. And what's next, Charlie? We were there traveling five and a half days in Israel. Traveling 1100 miles up and down the country. We interviewed more than 30 people, brought back more than 12 hours of conversations, now condensed into an hour long special. What can people expect as they listen?

S2

I think they can expect a powerful presentation. We saw what's happening within the country. We saw what God has been doing, even more importantly, and the interviews were just amazing. We were blown away and I think people will be as well.

S1

You'll find that special. At Moody Radio Morgan Specials, we talk with soldiers back from Gaza, survivors of the attack on these kibbutz. Plus what pastors are doing. You'll find that Moody radio special at Moody Radio. Org forward slash specials. If you listen regularly to the land in the book, you have a sense of basic Bible geography. Most of the Bible's events unfolded in Israel, but not all. In fact, many key moments took place on the other side of

the Jordan River. But would you believe that believers today in modern Jordan have access to quality Bible training? We'll talk about it next. Welcome again to the land and the book. I'm John Jaeger, and before we cross over the iconic Jordan River, let's think about creative ways we can reach out to our Muslim friends right where we live. When you're talking with a muslim friend, are there areas of conversation you should avoid, like movies and music and

pop culture here in America? I'm guessing these are taboo or should be very carefully discussed, if at all. Stefano here is with call of Hope. What do you say.

S3

Are these movies and this music? Is this part of your life?

S1

It is part of my life.

S3

Okay. So you share your life. I think we should not be too complicated. If we start thinking of what do we talk about? What do we open up then? We are in a difficult situation. No, that's my Muslim friend. And if this jazz music is part of my life, and if I really like it, and if I really like this guy who is playing this chess music, well, then I tell him about it, you know, why not? And if I like the movie back to the future, and I think that's the best movie I have ever seen. Well,

I tell that to my American friend. Why shouldn't I tell it also to my Muslim friend? Very normal. I share my life as it is.

S1

All right. Have a normal conversation about normal things with your Muslim friend and just get on with it.

S3

Absolutely. That's my advice.

S1

Stefano Faris with call of Hope. Us joining us today on the land and the book. Doctor Stephen Bramer is a teacher and preacher. You'd be hard pressed to take either one out of the man. He serves as department chair and professor of Bible exposition at Dallas Theological Seminary, but he also taught for 16 years at Briar Crest Bible College and at Briar Crest Biblical Seminary in Saskatchewan, Canada,

before joining the faculty of Dallas. He's a teaching pastor at Walter Brook Bible Fellowship, travels yearly to Israel and Jordan. He serves as an adjunct professor for Word of Life Bible Institute, Hungary and New York, Briar Crest Seminary, Canada, as well as at a ministry known as Jets. It's that last part we want to talk about today, Jets. And we're not talking about planes in the sky. Our focus has a higher calling. Hey, welcome back to the land of the book, Doctor Bramer.

S4

It's great to be here with you, John.

S1

So if Jets isn't an airplane, what are we talking about here?

S4

Uh, jet stands for the Jordan Evangelical Theological Seminary. It's amazing that there's an evangelical theological seminary in the country of Jordan.

S1

Now, some listeners might automatically be thinking, hold the phone. I wasn't aware that the country of Jordan would even allow something like an evangelical theological seminary. What are we misunderstanding?

S4

Well, there is a freedom of religion within Jordan. Now, having said that, the population of the Christians, including all the different Christian denominations, is just a very few percent. Nevertheless, there is a measure of freedom, and one of the freedoms that was given to them was for a school to be approved by the Jordanian government to teach the Word of God to Christian believers, not to Muslims.

S1

So where exactly in Jordan is the seminary located and how many students there are enrolled?

S4

It's at the edge of the big city of Jordan, actually, in the hill country overlooking the Jordan River valley and Israel in the distance. And so it's just outside of Amman, Jordan. Of course, Amman is is famous in Scripture.

S1

I want to go back to my little introduction and invite you to list 2 or 3 biblical events that took place in what we know today as Jordan.

S4

Well, you know, when David committed his sin with Bathsheba, the place he should have been was over with his army in Amman, Jordan. And so they were attacking the king of Amman, their king of the ammonites. And so David stayed home, and it was Uriah the Hittite who ended up, of course, suffering death because David was trying to cover sin. So that's that's an important battle that took place there in the New Testament. It's one of

the Decapolis cities. And so although Amman, Jordan, called Philadelphia by the Romans, is not mentioned specifically for an event, it is part of the Decapolis, the the Gentile region over there in the country of Jordan.

S1

Our focus today on the land in the book is Jordan. Our guest, Doctor Stephen Bremer, who has taught extensively for the Jordan Evangelical Theological Seminary. I'm John Jaeger, wondering, isn't it awkward, at the very least, to be in Jordan and have to teach about a Jewish messiah living in a Jewish land?

S4

Yeah, it is awkward, and perhaps even more awkward than that is because there is a state called the State of Israel over there. And so you're talking about Israel and an Israelite and an Israeli, you know, an Israelite was a descendant of Abraham, and Israeli is a citizen of the modern state of Israel. I often say to my Jewish guides, what's the difference between an Israeli and an Israelite? And he looks at me and I said, The Israelite has 100 fewer calories. And so Coke Light

and Pepsi. But they're different. And so when you're there teaching, I often rather than using the term Israel or anything or Israeli Israelite, I will say descendants of Abraham and perhaps the land of the Bible, because Jordan is part of the land of the Bible, we call it the the other Holy Land. And and things happened over there. Two and a half tribes of Israel were over there. And so you need to separate anything political and modern.

And most Christians there in Jordan can understand that and are able to focus on the biblical text and leave behind some of the political discussion.

S1

Well, many of our listeners have traveled to Israel. What might catch us by surprise if we were to visit Jordan, though? How is it different from Israel culturally, geographically, and spiritually?

S4

In many senses, the Jordanian people still have a culture that would be closer to the the. Culture. You know, you can travel and you can stop at a Bedouin tent and you can see the meals that they create. So the country is a modern country, but much of the country is still living in a more rural, a more Bedouin wandering types in the desert. So you get

to see a little bit more of that. And because it hasn't been developed in a modern way, except for the city of Amman, you get to see that openness, the the hills, something that you might have seen 2000 years ago, that when you're in Israel and they're hotels all over and and condominiums all over, it's a little bit harder to see. So Jordan is more wide open and a little bit more, I think, like what would have been like in the time of the scriptures.

S1

Thanks for being with us today on the land in the book, I'm John Jaeger talking today with Doctor Stephen Bremer. What are some other unique theological hurdles that you might be facing as you teach at a seminary in Jordan? You know.

S4

You're teaching in a country that the majority here are Muslim, and so you need to be sensitive to that. Although we're able to teach Christian people from a Christian background, a person perhaps was Muslim and converted to Christianity would not be allowed to come to the Jordan Evangelical Theological Seminary, not because the seminary doesn't want them there, but the government will not allow a person to change from Muslim to Christian. It's part of keeping the population from getting upset.

And therefore, when you're there, you need to speak very carefully about the majority religion. You want to be careful that you don't offend. Many of these students are seeking to reach out to their friends and neighbors who are not from a Christian background. And and so you just need to be careful. I remember in class one time I told a joke about George Bush, you know, and my translator just shook his head, being translated of course, into Arabic. And I said to break, you know, why

didn't you translate that joke? And he said, you know, it was about George Bush. And I said, well, he's from Texas. You know, we're okay with him. And he said, no, no, he's the president of the United States. And we don't make fun of any government official. He said we would never say anything about our king, and we want to

respect the president of the United States. So it's a different culture in terms of authority, a different culture in terms of family members saying to a pastor, you know what shouldn't I preach on when I come to your church? And he said, well, don't preach on marriage. And I said, what do you mean? The Scripture has so much to say and it's so important. He said, yes, but but you as an American, just think of marriage so much

differently than we would think in the Middle East. So much of your application probably wouldn't be appropriate for this culture. When you tell a husband to take his wife out for a date once a week, he said, you know, we weren't dating when we were in courtship often, you know? So here you are. It's a biblical subject, but it needs to be applied in a culturally relevant way. So even in class, I need to be careful about what

I say in terms of application. It's more that I'm asking the students to respond to the biblical message.

S1

Describe the typical student who studies at the Jordan Evangelical Theological Seminary. Are they are they young, middle aged, single, married? You know.

S4

They're all of that. But I would say, you know, they're they've already, of course, completed a university course, uh, mostly male, but a number of females involved as well. So, like our seminary stay the the majority of them would be younger, you know, in their 20s, early 30s. But the difference is that maybe half of them would be from the country of Jordan. But this Arabic speaking seminary

reaches out to the Arabic speaking world. And so there are students there from Lebanon and Syria and Iraq and Egypt in the occupied territory on the other side of the Jordan River and from Sudan. And so students from these other countries apply because they want to get solid evangelical biblical training in their native language, Arabic.

S1

Now, do most graduates hope to enter full time ministry, or is it understood that everybody's going to be a tent maker? What kind of a dynamic is there?

S4

I would say the majority who were coming there are planning to go into full time ministry. Uh. They're here. The churches of Jordan desperately need pastors. At one time, I think half the pastors had evangelical churches in Jordan had been trained by jets. Of course, some of them come over here to America and to other places to be trained. But I would say the majority of them are planning to go into full time Christian work, which is difficult because the churches don't have an awful lot

of money and it's hard to support. So some of them will be tent makers, but they want to serve the Lord.

S1

Hey, what insights biblically might you have otherwise missed had you not spent time teaching and living in Jordan?

S4

I think the biggest one would be that here in North America, we don't think about persecution. We don't think about, uh, having our neighbor who would do something, you know, uh, towards us that might be even dangerous or something like that. The Jordanian people are wonderful, wonderful, warm people. But there is a measure of ostracization, a measure of pressure that

comes upon believers in that country. And so I remember speaking about persecution one time and saying to the students, you know, I remember when I was persecuted back there in high school, and I said something and the students laughed at me, and I stopped and they looked at me and said, listen, that's the best story I have of persecution in America, you know? And then I turned to them and asked them, and someone had just come back from Iraq and had a gun pointed at his

head and said, okay, you win the story contest. You know, it's just different. We're so free here. And we can say we can ask people what church they go to. We in a sense, we don't have to protect ourselves. But in a country like that, where there are people observing and reporting, you do need to be careful in how you speak and how you act towards, uh, the majority population.

S1

How can our listeners pray for the Jordan Evangelical Theological Seminary?

S4

You just pray that the Lord would provide for them. Most of the money that comes to keep this seminary going comes from North America. It's difficult for people in the country of Jordan. Jordan is a poor country, and they've had refugees come from Iraq and from Palestine and from Syria. And so they're poor. So pray that the Lord would provide for them. Pray that students from other

countries would be able to get visas. Uh, Jordan Evangelical Theological Seminary may have 50 to 75 full time students. They used to have more than that. But certain people in the government don't allow the visas to come through for Arabic speaking students from other countries in many cases. So pray that the government would open up that gate and allow many more to come in and then pray

for them spiritually. Uh, I'm sure that the devil does not want this school to exist there, to have the impact it's having to be training these Arab young men and women for ministry. And so pray that the Lord would protect them in all that they do.

S1

Well, thank you for taking us to Jordan. That's Stephen Bremer right now. Coming up, it's a conversation with Charlie Dyer, our host. What are we doing? We're looking at Bible questions that have come from you. That's all ahead. Next on the land and the book. Question do you keep a spiritual journal as in your reading the Bible, and something comes across that sticks in your brain and you want to remember it? Or maybe, maybe if you're like me,

you puzzle over that something and you've got questions. Hi, I'm John Yeager, this is the land of the book, and I have to confess, my own journal has lots of questions in it. Well, the beauty of what you're listening to right now, here on the land in the book, is a segment that is devoted entirely to your questions about the Bible, about prophecy, about the Middle East. It's the land and the book. Charlie, are you ready for today's questions?

S2

I'm ready.

S1

John, uh, a quick thought before we begin, though, Passover will soon be upon us. And one of the traditional Passover questions is what makes this night different from all others? Passover, of course, is an important biblical holiday that has great meaning for both Jewish people and believers in Jesus. So I think that's a pretty good question to ask.

S2

It's a great question to ask. And if people listening want to know what makes Passover so special, our friends at Life and Messiah are offering to mail a free copy of their Messianic Passover Haggadah. The booklet will lead you through the celebration of Passover to see the rich connections to Jesus, our Messiah, and to the Last Supper. You'll also receive a link for an interactive Passover Seder video with the Haggadah and the video. You can celebrate

Passover this year with your family and friends. Now to get this free offer, just go to Life in messiah.org and click on the Moody Radio button there to find out more and to request your copy. That's life in messiah.org.

S1

Our email address where you can get your question to Charlie is the land and the book at Moody Edu. So let's dig into our first question from Todd. He takes us to Genesis 20, commenting that Sarah at this time was 80 years old. So why was Abimelech eager to marry an 80 year old woman?

S2

I think the answer might be that in typical Near Eastern fashion, Sarah could have been fully veiled so that only her eyes were showing. You know, even today, the eyes are seen as the point of beauty in those cultures from pharaohs perspective, Abraham was a wealthy Near Eastern sheik, and both he and Sarah would have appeared exotic to him. Finally, it's also possible even at 80, she was simply a stunningly beautiful woman.

S1

Mary asks, maybe this is complicated, but is there a time frame in a given Pauline letter to a specific church? For example, Paul begins in Galatians saying that he's amazed how they could so soon be removed from grace. But later he noted that the Galatians love was such that they would have plucked out their eyes and given them to him if possible. Does chapter four of Galatians represent a maturing on their part, and do later chapters in his epistles indicate growth on the part of the people

that Paul addressed? You know.

S2

It is fascinating to put Paul's letters with the book of acts and see how they fit together. But you ask about Galatians, and Galatians is one of the problem ones. It actually depends on who the Galatians were and when the book was written. And there are two main theories. There's a North Galatian theory that holds the book was written to the churches up in the northern Asia minor region, just below the Black Sea, and would have been written

during Paul's second missionary journey. And that would put the book around A.D. 53 to 57, somewhere about 8 or 9 years after Paul's first missionary journey. The other theory is called the South Galatian theory, and it holds that the book was written to the churches in the region of South Galatia, which includes Iconium, Lystra, and Derby. Those were churches visited by Paul on his first missionary journey about A.D. 46 to 48, and that places the book.

Then right after that journey, or either slightly before or after the early church council meeting in Jerusalem, that's described in acts 15. Now, I personally take the South Galatian theory. I believe Paul wrote the book about the time of the Council in Jerusalem, which means he wrote to the Galatians about 2 or 3 years after visiting those churches.

And I think that helps explain what Paul means when he says in chapter one, verse six, I'm astonished that you're so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ, and are turning to a different gospel. It's only been a few years since their conversion, and even in chapter four, the chapter you mentioned, I sense Paul's astonishment at how quickly they've turned toward legalism. How is it that you have turning back to those weak

and miserable principles? He asks, having started so well, Paul, shocked that such a short span of time was all it took for them to turn from the truth of the gospel. Now, I'm not sure if this completely answers your question, but I think it helps provide something of a timeline in terms of his dealing with the church in Galatia. And I think if you match up his letters with the other churches he visited, it really does provide some interesting and fascinating background information.

S1

I hope that's helpful. Mary. From Natalie, this question, she says. Do you have any thoughts regarding the Tree of Life translation of the Bible? From what I gather, it seems to be written with a messianic Jewish audience in mind. My heart longs to read and understand the Bible through a middle eastern lens. Is there a Bible translation or a different resource that you would recommend?

S2

Well, I've not had a great deal of connection to that translation. I'm a little familiar with it and it is a decent translation, though I think it could be. Be confusing for someone without a lot of knowledge of Jewish background. Changing the names of biblical characters to make them more Jewish can create a bit of disconnect for some readers. Now, obviously, changing Jesus to Yeshua is one that a fair number of people would know, but it

could get more confusing to describe lesser known individuals. I also think changing the order of the books in the Old Testament to match the Hebrew scriptures could be confusing, especially if someone is using this translation in a church or a Bible study where they're using the normal order of the books. Now, I don't want to sound too

picky because there is no perfect translation. Each has its own unique purpose, and this could be very helpful for someone wanting to do personal Bible study and understand some of that Jewish or Middle-Eastern background. I'm just not sure if it would work as well for regular use in a typical church setting.

S1

This listener wants to know your thoughts about Kristy McClelland. She says, I know her ministry focus is shedding light on the historical context of Scripture for the Western reader, but I don't know much about her theology and doctrine. She wrote a book called Rediscovering Israel. Sounds intriguing, but I don't want to invest in something without a trusted stamp of approval. What do you think?

S2

Well, I don't personally know Kristy McClellan, though I do know she graduated from Dallas Seminary with an Ma and Christian education and all that to say, I know the theological background and the biblical emphasis she received there. That at least leads me to assume she'd do a solid

job in presenting God's Word. I suspect she also might have attended either Jerusalem University College and back in my day, that was called the American Institute of Holyland Studies when I went there, or Dallas Seminary short term program at Master's College Ibex Program. But either way, both of those

provide good historical and geographical background. Now, I'm sorry I can't be more specific, but I can say where she went to school and what she's passionate about give me a very positive first impression.

S1

It's the land in the book from Moody Radio, our host, Doctor Charlie Dyer, I'm John Yeager. Thank you to this station for carving out airtime. Gary says I was discussing teenagers with our pastor and stated that the Bible does not talk about teenagers. I said that in the Old Testament.

A boy becomes a man at age 13. Well, he challenged me on where the Bible says that some would say it's the age of 20, since it was only those that were over 20 years of age at the time of the exodus that died in the desert, at what age does a boy become a man?

S2

Well, you know, the Bible really doesn't speak directly to that matter. I just and I think about it, I know two possible passages. The first is the one your pastor cited. You know, the phrase 20 years old and upward was used two ways in the book of Numbers. In numbers, chapter one, it's the age given for those eligible to serve in Israel's army. Now, that could be an arbitrary age. Just when individuals were felt, you know, to be physically developed enough to fight like our service,

requiring someone to be 18 to enlist. It wasn't an age of adulthood as much as the requirement for being able to serve militarily. However, when the age is used again in numbers 32, it does seem to refer not to military eligibility as much as it does to personal accountability for one's actions. That's where all the men, 20 years old and upward, were held responsible for rejecting the offer to enter the land. But the second passage is also indirect in Luke chapter two. Uh, Luke records the

account of Jesus at the temple when he was 12. Now, it might be a stretch to describe this as a model of a modern bar mitzvah, but Jesus was asking and answering questions with the teachers in the temple, and he told his parents he was there to be about his father's business. Now, the account doesn't say it was when Jesus became responsible for his actions. In fact, at the end of the chapter, it seems to say the opposite. It says he went to Nazareth and was obedient to

his parents. But some do suggest that that was the age when Jewish males were thought to be responsible, and Jesus was reflecting that Jewish tradition. So what's the answer? Well, today, at the age of 12 or 13, a Jewish boy goes through the process of his bar mitzvah and and assumes religious obligation of becoming an adult in the sense of being responsible for obeying God's commands. But there's no specific passage in the Old or New Testament I know of that says that was true at that time.

S1

This morning, a Lutheran friend gave me a few copies of the Reader's Digest Bible, and I'm wondering, what do you think about this version, especially as a Bible, to be sent overseas to people who have no other Bibles? Yeah.

S2

Personally, I'm not really excited about a condensed Bible. While it might present the basic historical summary of what's in the Bible, there's really a reason God included everything in His word. For example, you know, God included four gospels to present the life of Christ. I also included two sets of historical books, you know, the Samuel and Kings, and then first and second Chronicles to trace the history

of the Kingdom of Israel and Judah. Now by summarizing or combining content and then leaving out the rest, the material that remains is is simply a human summary of all God intent. It's kind of like the cliff notes of the Bible. I think it's better to present the whole counsel of God. It, rather than just a summary, is the message God wants people to read, memorize, and follow. Now you can share a modern translation with someone. You certainly don't want to send them a Bible. That's difficult.

To read and understand, but with that modern translation, it's far better for them to read the whole word of God rather than just a summary of the Word of God.

S1

Thank you Charlie, and thank you to every listener who took the time to email their question. You can do the same when you connect with us at the Land and the book@moody.edu. Are you taking advantage of our podcast? It's there at the website. A great way to listen to this program, any program again or share us with a friend. A lot of folks don't live in an area where we broadcast this program, so why not share with them the podcast? It's at our website. The land

and the book, dawg. Coming up, Charlie's devotional right here on Moody Radio's The Land and the book. Welcome to segment four of The Land. In the book, I'm John Jaeger, asking, how much of a climber are you? For some people, climbing into the bed is the most challenging thing they face physically, but some people are really into climbing. I got a doctor friend, Charlie, who's climbed Kilimanjaro, who's climbed Mount McKinley and has more mountains in sight. But that's

not the kind of climb that you're talking about. And your devotional coming up, is it?

S2

No it's not. Our mountains are a little less steep, but I think biblically they're far more significant.

S1

We're headed to a climb up a Zaka, and that's in Joshua chapter ten. If you've got a Bible handy, you might want to open it there. As we first listen to this Holy Land experience testimony.

S5

Hi, my name is Elizabeth Hartley and my Holy Land experience consisted of first a tour with the Wheaton College Holy Land program in 1979, and then the privilege of going back between 1984 and 1989 to study at the American Institute of Holy Land Studies under a number of wonderful professors, one of them being Jim Munson, who showed us the land to take visual pictures so that when you're reading your scriptures, you see that in your mind. And as you read your scriptures, one of the Psalms

comes to mind as the mountains surround Jerusalem. So the Lord surrounds his people. And anywhere you look at from when you're in the city of David, there are mountains to the north. To the east is the Mount of Olives. To the south are mountains. To the west. What is sometimes called Mount Zion is actually the western hill you have to look up. And God has surrounded each of us the way he has surrounded his holy city.

S1

All right, Joshua. A book of action. All kinds of great stuff going on. But we're talking about a climb today, Charlie. Lead on. Okay.

S2

Okay. Hello, hello, hello. Okay, I think everybody's there. Can you hear me? The microphone, I think, is now on. Okay. Can everybody in the back of the bus hear me? Wave your hand if you do. Excellent. Now, sorry about the bumpy ride, but as you can tell, we're not on a road normally traveled by tour buses. And in a very short time, we're going to reach the end of the road. Quite literally. The bus will park and will still have a bit of a hike up to the top of this hill, but trust me, it's worth

the walk. When we stop, be sure to bring along your map, your camera or smartphone and your hat. Here we are. So follow me up to the top. That really? That wasn't too bad, was it? The bus did most of the work in getting as close to the top 40 years ago. It was a bit more of an adventure to reach where we're now standing. And where is that, you might ask? Well, we're now on the ancient site of Isaca and I can see for some of you that doesn't mean much, but I hope it will by

the time we're through. First, though, let me help you understand where you are geographically. We're in the area of the low foothills between the hill country of Judah to our east and the Philistine plain to our west. In Hebrew, this area is known as the fella. Now the hill we're on is about the highest one around, so it gives us a pretty good view of the area. See all those low hills spread out down below? That's what the fella these low foothills generally look like. These low

hills have a limestone crust on top called nori. Think of it as being something like poor quality cement. The hills aren't much good for agriculture, and as you can see, they're generally covered with some hardier scrub brush and bushes that don't need much soil. About 4 or 5ft. Underneath that limestone crust is a layer of white chalk. Now, these details might sound boring, but they're important for understanding the entire area. The hills weren't good for agriculture, so

that's where the towns and villages were built. The major east west valleys in between the hills are filled with rich alluvial soil that washed down from the hill country to our east. You can see quite a bit of agriculture in those valleys today. That was also true in Bible times. The farms and roads ran through the valleys, and just below us is a trough running northward. It's actually a chalk moat of sorts, a natural valley formed where that soft layer of chalk was exposed and weathered away.

It made for a natural North-South roadway. So, so much for geography. Now let's open our Bibles and see why the city on this high hill was so strategic. I want us to be right here on this hill, so we can watch the first of three historical events that unfolded in this very region to have front row seats for this first conflict. Let's walk over to the northern edge of the hill and look down at the chalk valley below. To our north, the sky looks rather ominous.

Dark clouds are rolling in from off the Mediterranean, and the green tint along the bottom of the clouds is a telltale sign of hail. As we watch the clouds move closer, we can also start to see flashes of lightning, followed by rumbles of thunder and then through the darkening sky. We also catch a glimpse of people running south through this natural chalk valley. From up here, they almost look like ants scurrying to get away. As the fleeing horde approaches,

many are stumbling and falling. They're being pelted by chunks of falling ice. No, wait. They're being bombed by extremely large hailstones and out in the open they're defenseless. And then, just as soon as it began, the storm skirts by and the hail stops falling. But most of those on the ground aren't getting up. Their comrades keep running, not even stopping to help. We wonder why until we see another group in the distance gaining on them. This original

group was fleeing from these pursuers. That's why they're not stopping. So what just took place? Open your Bibles to Joshua ten. You probably know this story is the account of Joshua leading his forces from Gilgal on an all night hike to rescue the people of Gibeon in verse five explains the problem facing Gibeon five kings of the Amorites, the kings of Jerusalem, Hebron, Yarmuth, Lachish and Eglon joined forces. They moved up with all their troops and took up

positions against Gibeon and attacked it. The kings in the hill country were alarmed with the surrender of Gibeon. Israel now controlled a main east west crossing point in the land. The region had been cut in two by this move. Their goal was to recapture Gibeon and bottle up Israel. Back in the Jordan Valley, Joshua and his forces caught the armies of the Five Kings off guard. Again, Joshua ten summarizes what happened after an all night march from Gilgal.

Joshua took them by surprise. The Lord threw them into confusion before Israel, who defeated them in a great victory at Gibeon. Israel pursued them along the road, going up to Beth Horan, and cut them down all the way to a Zarqa and Makeda. Now we tend to focus on the long day of Joshua ten, when God kept. The sun and moon from moving to give Israel time for this extended battle. And that was indeed a miracle.

But there was another miracle that day, one most skip over, but which we can spot from our vantage point up here. But to do so, you need to look carefully at the details. Joshua chased the Canaanites down the main road that went west from Gibeon toward the Mediterranean. The enemy first ran away from Joshua, but now they needed to get home. To do so, they had to stop at the bottom of the Beth Horn Ridge Road and then turn south, traveling through the chalk moat or roadway below us.

Once they got far enough south, they could then take a different roadway back east into the hill country, but they faced two obstacles. The first was the Israelites pursuing them. The Israelites were tired after an all night 20 mile uphill hike. So many of the Canaanites were confident they could outrun the Israelites and escape. But that's when the second difficulty, God himself entered the fight and they couldn't outrun him. Here's how Joshua describes this often overlooked detail

as they fled before Israel. On the road down from Beth Horn to Waseca, the Lord hurled large hailstones down on them from the sky, and more of them died from the hailstones than were killed by the swords of the Israelites. The natural chalk valley from below Beth Horn to Isaca became a highway of death for the Canaanite army. It wasn't the rain or even the lightning that was the problem. God literally hurled large hail stones from heaven on the soldiers as they fled, and more died from

the hailstones than were killed by the Israelites. About two months ago, I talked about hailstorms in Texas and Indiana that forced me to replace two roofs on houses, and they were just golf ball sized hail. I remember times in Texas when they had hail the size of baseballs and larger. I'm glad the account says the storm only lasted to a Zaka. Imagine being on this hill and watching a storm like that pass by just to our north. God had the sun and moon stand still, which helped

Israel on a very long day of battle. But the crucial element of victory was a violent thunderstorm, accompanied by large hail used as divine missiles to target the invaders. God is the one who gets credit for this victory. So what can we carry back with us from this first visit to Isaca? How about this? God calls on us to do our part to stand up for him. But as we do, let's remember that ultimately he's the one who will bring victory, and he'll often do so

in ways we might never have imagined. So stay faithful and keep looking up.

S1

Boy, great lesson there from the top of Isaca. Thank you Charlie. If you'd like to hear today's program again, any past program is available at our website, the land and the book.org. We encourage you to share our podcast with your friends. Again, the land and the book. Org. Thanks for being a part of our program today. Hope

you'll be back next week. On behalf of Charlie Dyer and Dan Anderson, I'm John Yeager, the land in the book is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.

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