Tainted Love (part 2)

This is the case of Marion Barter, a mother teacher friend missing for twenty five years.

You know, I know something that she was going to vanish, that's for sure.

The bizarre circumstances surrounding her disappearance.

I'm not sure if it was intentional or there is something more foul afoot.

If you could imagine a teacher coming straight from say little house on the prairie to the eighties, that was Marian Barter.

What I see.

Whether you find Marian Barter dead or alive, I honestly believe somebody has that key piece of information.

And the relentless quest of a daughter to find her mum.

Something had happened, Something has happened to make her leave.

I am one hundred percent sure, one hundred percent sure that somebody knows something.

The lady vanishes, Episode forty five. I'm Alison Sandy.

And I'm Brian Seymour.

This will be the last episode we publish ahead of the coroner handing down her findings in Sydney on Wednesday, thirtieth of November. We will wrap up a few loose ends, but there is still a lot more ahead. Finally, we have interviewed Julaine the latest alleged victim of Rick Blum to come forward after reading about the Lady Vanisher's investigation.

So, as you already know, Julaine met Rick or Frederick as he called himself in two thousand and six in Belgium. After meeting and falling in love with Rick, Gelaine says she was robbed of her life savings, forced to start life again in her twilight years. She moved from Belgium to a small farm in France, which is where our colleague and translator Estelle Sanchez called and spoke with her.

Jelene sidnuvum Guillen or aba, yes, Gillen, it's me again. Everything's ready, we can start. Thank you so much for accepting this interview.

You're welcome. I feel the complaint so he couldn't hurt anyone else. And he continued on, I understand so well the position of the lady who vanished, because they are people in my family that I care a lot about, and I was so sad to have lost them. I'm slightly sick today. I apologize. But you can ask me all the questions you want, all.

Right, So to start the interview with an easy question, can you tell me your name, where you come from, the occupation you've had in your life.

Yes, my name is Jilene. My maiden name is don Lois. I've had several jobs in my life, but the one I've done for the longest time that I particularly loved, but I exhausted me because I was carrying all the pain in the world on my back. I was an insurance broker. It was very difficult. I had a home office. I have many children. I've had a husband that was sick for a long time and eventually passed, so my children were still very young and I had to raise them.

They have two diplomas, so I'm satisfied.

It's evidently from the sweat of my bro and when I think about.

This individual who left with all of my money.

Still today, it's very difficult to leave because I would have needed that money.

And so if you start talking about further idea, Devali, how did you meet him for the first time? We know about the ad you published in the newspaper, but could you explain it to me in a few words?

Listen? He replied to me with a very well written letter in very good French without any spelling mistakes, which is fairly rare, and that I like. Following his letter, we met and that's it. He ended up living at my place. I was in a vulnerable state because I helped one of my sons in France whose house had burned in the car as well.

He didn't have any id papers left.

And I don't think you know how difficult it is to read you documents, especially in France.

Yes, well, I'm French, so I do have an idea of how it is.

All right, I'll tell you.

Then. Everywhe i'd go on the ground floor, they tell me everything's in order, really, but go to the first floor. That's where you need to go. And there they tell me, but Madam, nothing's in order. And so one day I had to make threats at the notary's office to simply get the proof they own their property back. It was the fifth time I was going in a long distance from where I was coming from, and I thought it

It was like that everywhere everywhere French administration. Yes, of course, all of these shows your character of being strongbled and knowing what you want. If we go back to the main question, can you remember which journal you published your adam?

Absolutely? Nowadays this journal has completely changed, But it was lam. It was a small free journal distributed in several areas and many people would publish an ad in it. He only needed to open it. And the lawyer that one of my friends really wanted me to consult that he paid the feast force said to me, because feeling a complaint is something very difficult mentally, we feel so dumb, sodom, foolish, imbecile. How did we feel for someone's show like that. But

Thought she knew people.

I was duped just like a naive, an embassade, and so it's very difficult to accept. To find a complaint to the police because you can see on their face that this is what they think, that you are a needio.

From what you started to tell me, how is Frederick? What did you like about him? What impression did he give you, or at least what made you I imagine that you him or made you want to marry him?

Well, that's it. I became a widow. I wasn't fifteen, so you see how it is. This is very difficult to bear, especially since I took care of my husband when he was ill for eight years. My husband was very charming, very interesting, very smart, much more knowledgeable than me, and so I would always ask him for advice and would always follow what he would say. So to find myself alone overnight, it's very hard.

But you did it for years, Yes, I did it for years.

It was a short fall that would get worse with the years, you see, and so we'll still call him Frederick. He was very smart and very well spoken. He could talk about everything you see. And on top of this, he had the same accent as that of my husband because he was born in the same city. Well, if it was the truth, but I think that's the case because he did have that accent.

So your husband was from Belgium as well, if I understand correctly.

Yes, yes, on the border who know friends somewhat?

Yes, of course, I've lived there most of my life.

I should know, right, so you know the region around lil Yes, of course. So my husband was from Tournam, so you see where it is.

Yes, it's not the border right at the end.

Of his root it was friends.

So you see a guy who talked just like.

My husband, and on top of this, with a lot of knowledge, not as much as my husband, but still very good. I don't glorify my husband. I'm only telling the truth, you know. But because you didn't know him, you wouldn't know. I've always tried not to compare, but it was so obvious he had that for himself, to have the same accent the one from Northern Friends.

Yes, I see, so from what we understand, the relationship evolved very fast. So how did this all happen? Did he make promises or did he speak of the relationship as long term or and to have common projects? How did it all happen?

There's one thing that seemed weird to me is that he never made love to me. Never or really yeah, but for me it.

Wasn't primardl But it seems very weird to me.

Okay, So he made the pretense that he had always been like this and that the doctors tried to heal him but that they didn't succeed.

But the sexcessive events tell me something else.

So not wanting to have sexual relationships or not being able to he told.

Me he could not, but actually kids, yes exactly. But I learned about this after only he never told me anything about this. What he talked about was that we would go get married because he never tried to hide that he lived in Australia and that he was a bank representative. But I was the one thing for everything, even his shirts. All of that seemed weird to me, But he always had good explanations and he wasn't scurly to explain anything to me.

He was so convinced on my knafe. The bigger it was the more I believed him.

That's it to have such a confidence in oneself to be able to convince anyone of anything.

He when he talked about getting married in that so it was on the way to arrive in Australia marriage and so he wanted me to live without telling anything to my kids, and for that I said no, And he quickly redeemed himself saying, yes, I understand each your children, and so we'll cook a meal for them before leaving. He cooked the meal himself. I was the one who had the emergence, but he did the biggest part. He would tell me, look, you won't have enough for the

So the money you're referring to, what was it for that?

It was good to as soul.

So because my children would come visit us in Australia in order for them not to have to ask me for money to live there since we don't go there for twenty four hours. He would open bank accounts for each of them. So I had to supply those accounts from Belgium before living and he was the one who was going to be in charge of it because it was in his bank. So since I never refrained on what I would give to my kids, I gave it. He found the right way. He even counted the money in front of.

Me, right so he never tried to hide what he was doing here, As he said, the bigger it was, the better he could hide his real intention exactly, I'm wondering. He said, he wanted you not to tell your kids, and you refused. What made you refuse at that moment? Because you've accepted the rest? So why were the kids the last stroll you got?

I think the love I have for my children, and he noticed directly because he backed out, he directly agreed with me. He so that I wouldn't better on that. Similar to so I went to see my son in France and I wanted to bring my passport. I don't know why. At that moment, he barely couldn't retain from getting angry at me. He said, look, you don't need your passport to good friends, which was true. Someone is

To what And well, you might want to talk about the person is Rick. I don't know, you choose.

I'm happy to talk about anything. Look, in any case, it's tring me a lot. It gets hard to sleep at night, and everything you want, but I don't care. It has to be punished. If I could get some money back, that would help a lot. But what is most important is I'm lucky to be alive. Whereas the person who's searching for her mom at the moment, her mom she's not there anymore.

That's what is dramatic.

July and her family have told us repeatedly that they feel she is lucky to be alive. Alexandra quickly formed the opinion that Rick might harm or kill her mother in law, a fear that Juli and herself would come to share.

I believe I got very scared of him twice.

How did you feel endangered?

Once because he absolutely wanted me to go to hospital to do the sleep of near control. She said, it's very dangerous. You could die from it with simply a pillow on your face. And I thought, what is the bad putting a pill on my face? With a strength he had, So at that moment I got scared of him. Why did I not kick him out? That I don't understand.

So the episode with the pillow, did he try to explain to you what could happen with sleep? At me? That's it? That's it, So showing you with the pillow that you would suffocate.

And so at that instance, I thought, what sorts of ideas does he have in mind? And because in any case, we didn't cuddle in bed, and that bed was very big, it might have.

Been too matters wide.

Oh well, so I would let done far from him, and he did the same for the following nights. In any case, he didn't like it, so.

It didn't want physical proximity. It was mostly intellectul that's it. And the second occasion in which he got scared.

He wanted me to go back to the hospital to do a liver ultra sunds. I never had anything to the liver, and at the hospital that's what they said. But Madam, there's no issue with your liver, and so he explained to me. Always was a risk with the liver because you could be poisoned. And so I thought, what strange ideas he has in minds?

Yeah, that's it. Why would you be poisoned?

And all the time I had a cramp in my calf and he wanted to take care of it, saying he could make a disappear, and I refused.

I didn't want him to touch me.

Right, So you were already suspicious of him, or there was a form of fad that was already there.

It was already near the end. He showed me too many aspects of him that were strange. But in spite of all of this, I didn't kick him out. And for that I don't understand myself, because I remember clearly that I was scared of some things, but there was a part of me that loved it, and I probably woted in other life.

That the one I had.

Yeah, it was the fantasy of going to another country to live the Australian dream.

Yes, but what I found very strange as well. So my husband's name is Dubois, so in France, my name is Dubois. In Belgium it's don Lois because that's how it is. It's below so he was saying jibois jube bush.

I found it.

Really, it was somewhat outrageous to me because well I didn't know the bush. I still don't know it and I will never know it, but I know we can.

Get lost in it. And I found it a treasureus.

That he would dare call me like that. So one side of me was suspicious of him, not at the beginning. Everydent lived after yes, and so it was a love hate situation. One side of me hated his behavior, but the other side of me was three what he could give.

Me in Australia.

I would have had a big house and domestic help, a couple that would have done all the house coores, so I wouldn't have to do the course anymore, not even prepare the meals, because that she did himself and he was tasty. You see, So all this put together, Australia was the Eldorado.

And do you know where you would have gone in Australia?

Not at all. And one of my clients was a retired aircraft pilot. He told me, look, madam, Australia is not right next door, because I would have been able to come back every two weeks.

Further excess right, he told you you would visit Belgium very regularly.

So when you put all this together, it's ridiculous that I would have believed this.

It's not ridiculous more taking advantage of someone's ignorance on something, or using someone's feelings as a minturn end. We talked about it with your daughter in law, that he was a professional swindler and it seemed that he got to understand your weak spots and exploit them. What did he tell you about his past? What did you explain about himself? Who he was?

He told me he was a shot arm something that I was able to verify. He was a gendarme in a suburb in Brussels, but I knew very well since I used to live there, and so the gendarmes that the repress sort of revolved from the population. He told me he had a limp, and from his recollection it was due to how people beat him during that event. And because I have myself seen gendermes that I have been beaten by the population, I believed all of it.

These are the only things he told me himself.

So he never mentioned anything from I don't know his childhood, not at all.

He never talked about his parents nor his family, absolutely not.

So it would be more inclined to tell you things about history, facts, things that would know happened in history in France or Belgium, but never anything personal. Is that it?

Yes, that's it. And for me it was credible because I knew that period, so it was easy to make me believe anything he'd say.

And did he mention anything about the money he had, properties he owned, that kind of things. What did he say?

She told me because he knew what could happen with ben Kinds. He changed his password every fifteen days.

So he changed his password to make sure nothing worried because he knew.

There were so many scams and he didn't want to be scammed. She insisted on.

That, pausing briefly. This is a common ploy used by fraudsters, warning the person they are scamming not to fall the scams a classic ploy to create the illusion they are legitimate and on your side, one we know Rick used multiple times, For example, when he convinced John Oldenburg to let him bury her jewelry in her backyard just in case it was stolen. It worked then, as it worked with Gilane.

To mention he didn't want to be scammed when it was a swindler himself. It's definitely. Did he give you numbers estimations of how much he owned?

No, that I knew from the fact that he was a bank representative.

Did he ever ask you to give him a proxy, especially for the money for your children?

She never asked me for a proxy. He told me I'm doing it. He would do it himself to open up accounts at their names.

And so you went to the bank to ask them to move the funds into those accounts.

No, no, no, I had to take them the funds in cash.

Yes, yes, so all of this money was in cash.

Yes, absolutely, And he was with me and right after getting the money, we went to get coffee somewhere, and I had to give him the money build on the table so no one would see, right.

And how much did he steal? I know we already have an estimation, but we know he also stole high value items. How much did he steal?

He wanted everything that I had value to have it in Australia, because otherwise I would have been side without all of this. You see, it was always so I wouldn't be unhappy to.

Always turn things in a certain way so it would appeal logical to you.

He had a photo of all my children in a large format that I found after he left. He didn't take it with him.

The foods weren't of interest to him.

Of course. It's the the same thing with the books that mattered to me, except for dictionaries that had a lot of value that he took away. But for the rest, why would I take books with me when we could buy them new ones there?

And I didn't react to that.

It was stupid because I wouldn't have found important books in French in Australia.

And when you learned the troth about Fredrik, if we look at the scene he went to this last dinner at your son and daughter in laws. You waited for Frederick and he didn't come. Could you re explain that to me? And the moment you understood it scam?

Do you? That went very fast as well? Since explained to me he had to go to the Netherlands to settle a business issue. He had suggested that he could have been dangerous, and so it was afterwards that we would go have dinner with my son and daughter in law and he never came. I was worried and I went to the police to signal a dangerous disappearance. And at the police station they asked me if he had another name. I didn't have an order to give them.

I thought it was very strange.

At last, they told me not to worry about him, that he was still alive because he was required going through customs. What was that going through customs? Whilce we should have gone together.

Because he went through customs for Australia.

Is that it?

He left for Australia on his own and they could tell me which flight he took, So I thought he turned me and he has all of my money and he lives on his own.

Just a quick side note again, there are similarities here with Janet Oldenburg's case. Remember Janet was left in England while Rick Bloom headed back to Australia alone.

Yes, so it would be pretty straightforward to understand what the situation was after all this.

Right then, I thought it was certain there wasn't any hope left for me.

At the police station said.

You were worried about him?

No, you can be relieved he's still alone.

Not very real sharing, No, not at all.

It meant that he had dumped me.

How did you react to this?

I feel the complaint against him very shortly after, because I told myself, if I don't do it, one, he will be able to repeat it with others. Two.

I never here but the rest of the story.

Whereas because I feel the complaint well, in Belgium, since there are two languages, I should have had the right to choose to keep speaking my language as me to speak Flemish, and I couldn't explain myself with as many nuances and Flemish as I would have been able to in my mother tongue.

It seems logical on top.

Of this, I didn't have my house anymore since he wanted me to sell it, so it was on sale. But at that point he understood that he wouldn't get another dollar from me, and that's why he never came to my daughter in laws.

Did he know that because you bought the other house in France with the money from the sale?

No, not that, but simply because I wouldn't give it to him.

But how did he understand that?

Well? I suppose that he understood it, because that's how it was in my mind. I wouldn't give it to him because I would buy a house for my son, woulds He's a farmer, so he needed this land, so that's what I would buy it. He told me himself that she understood it very well why I would help my child and not give him the money.

Right, So Frederick told you understood because you probably thought to himself that your children would always be a priority. And it could have been a reason why he left, because he realized it wouldn't be able to swindle you as much as it hoped to.

It was very clear in my head, and because I wouldn't hide what I would do, anyone could know just by asking me.

So he probably asked me, and I told.

Him and not accept that. You would say no.

That's for sure.

But in any way, as soon as he'd feel some sort of a position on my part, he would backtrack very first. He wouldn't try to oppose me. Apart from the passport episode, What was.

Your reaction when you learned that Frederick was married with two kids.

I didn't know that.

Yes, but you learned about it after right when you learn the truth about him? When did you find out that he had done the same to other women? How did you find out the truth about him?

When you find a complaint In Belgium, you can have a look at the record. I didn't have a lawyer with me, so it was very fast. I got to look at this record file for about fifteen minutes, not more, and I couldn't make copies since I didn't have a lawyer.

But I was able to.

See his record file and I took as many notes as I could. He turned fourteen years in prison for fraud, identity theft and all the things along these lines, and that I was able to read at the Louver police station, which is the biggest city than the one I filled the complaint too. Tevery Man is attached to Louver and that's where they had his record file.

And when you looked at the file, can you remember if it was in his name for the edvari or did they mention other names his sutur names.

I don't remember what the name was, but I think the Tory police explained to me he sent a record from Australia to Belgium in order to take the name do it Vary, and that I found out things to my day. We researched about the name. She found that someone with a name do head over in that I've met. She had an important position at the un but I think.

She passed from the United Nations.

He said yes, and so she invited me to her house, and she assured me because he had from my perspective, he posed as the cousin of that person. And she told me she had no cousin with that name. She didn't have any cousins at all. I fell it call correctly. He had posed as the godson of that person of her dentist right.

So that's what he told you, that he was the god son of that person, of the real divide yes.

And so that person told me after Frederic left that she was born in Hungary and that she could speak Hungarian. He told me he could speak Anguaryan too. She said she'd never have a cousin with that name. I was somewhat mad at this person because I told her, well, she was mad at me because I told her, Madam, if you had feel the complain when you found out someone's solier identity, I would have probably not fullen for shure myself.

And she said I should not try.

To blame her for this when I could have been more careful myself.

These claims of stealing someone else's identity sound very familiar. That's exactly what happened to the real fnand Ramaica. And remember Rick used the name Bernard DuPont, which he admitted while giving evidence at the inquest. It was the name of the manager of a B and P bank branch he used in Sydney.

Well, with what ifs, you could change the whole world, as the saying goes. But for sure, if people had come forward earlier, especially since the police fire was so full already, we would not be at this point today.

For sure, she would never have entered my house because he would stay in the house when I would go out to get groceries for one and he would just stay in the house.

So he never bought anything.

Nothing, nothing, nothing.

Simply told me he would buy taut On comic books to offer as gifts for his friends in Australia.

I never saw these comic books, but that's what he said.

And so if we look at the whole situation from a larger perspective, including the story of Marian Barta and with the current inquest, do you think they should listen to your story prior to making any decisions on the findings. Would you give your testimony in an Australian court even speaking French? Do you think it could make a difference if you were giving you testimony in a legal framework.

I'd be happy to testify. I couldn't pay for the trip, that's for sure, but I'd be happy to give it as long as I'd get plenty of support to make sure my health doesn't.

Suffer more from it than it already has.

I'm doing all this to help these people who lost their mum and cope love her anymore. I'm still alive because I was lucky enough to feel the danger before it happened. I felt there was a danger twice, although I didn't dump him when it happens, which I don't understand, but I still manage to protect myself.

You showed him you would stand up your ground, and that's potentially what made him leave because he realized it wouldn't be the easiest. Came you, What would you say to other victims, people that potentially knew him at some point in their lives and would know something about the case but didn't go public.

That's obvious to file a report. Better late than never, that's for sure. He told me on the phone, if I hear about you again, you'll have to deal with me. And he could have hurt me in other ways till I'm sure, But in spite of this, I still filed a report. What I could try to do is reaching out to the police in Tournee, because they're the ones who asked me to testify and had hoped they could get me some of my money back. The detective didn't

You something and you probably can tell compared.

To other people. I have a capacity to overcome situations, but I can feel inside me that it's hurting me. The most important is my attempt at helping others, rather than consider how much it can hurt me. I tell myself I could always make up with my family that loves me, whereas the others can't. For example, the lady from Tuna, she changed her hair color and he had bend on her INVALI from.

What I know, Pause for a second, just highlighting a couple of things here. The verbal threat that Julian mentions, if I hear about you again, you'll have to deal with me. It sounds similar to the experience Jeanette Gafney Bowenhead after she went to police about mister Blom and another thing. Julne said, the other woman from Tournay who was duked changed her hair color before heading to Bali

Could you tell me a little bit more about that lady from Tournay, Where did you learn?

I can only tell you what the tourlet police told me. When she came back from Bali, she filed a report in Tournai since she lived there. She told them she had stopped to have any contact with her family after he asked her to, although her family helped her a lot, since she was in Bali couldn't understand any English, so you can imagine, and she didn't have any money left because he had taken everything, absolutely everything, so she had

In her family and forgave everything.

Whereas only because he asked her too, she had changed her hair color and so he left her in Valley to go to Australia.

It's very similar situation, same destinations. Apart from the fact that she did live with him and you managed not to.

She gave him everything, her house.

So very similar to have sold everything she owned.

Yes, in my opinion, he saw the difference between her and me after he'd known me, because it happened after me.

That's what the lawyer told me.

A professional swindler learns from his mistakes.

And what do you think the main difference was between you and her?

She didn't have the stomach to define him for me. No was no I think a lot before saying yes or no. So maybe she was weaker than me in that sense. Maybe I don't know.

But in spite of all this, it would have been difficult because although you yourself thought you knew people's intentions, you were ready to stay your house. You can't to live with him. It was already very drastic, even on your part of the story. It didn't happen fully, but it does show how well it could manipulate its victims.

That's certain because the money from my car sale, he has it. All the cash money I had at that time, I gave it to him.

And the amount of money involved is around seventy thousand euros right.

Yes, on top of all the high value objects he took as well. He took two chests and my daughter in law that you talked to. Wanted to help him with it, but he refused, saying he could deal with it on his own. One day, I went back home and the chest had disappeared. Of course he didn't want her to know where he was shipping on a chest. But from all of this, I didn't think he was strange. That's what I said before. The bigger it was, the more I believed him.

And to conclude on this, what would you want to see happened to Frederick der Davari rig Blum and all the synonyms that exist, And what would it take for you to find closure?

The ideal situation would be for me to get that money back so I can leave more comfortably. That's one of thing that I can spoil the little ones invite them to the restaurant, whereas now they're the ones inviting me, which is adding insults to injury, being able to buy other things and being able to live at ease, and most importantly that he would not be able to cause harm to anyone else, but he will go to jail for the rest of his days. That's what I want.

Another question that comes to mind from the fact that he took all of your savings. Did you have access to a retirement fund that you contributed for or were you your own boss, and in that case you put money on the site for a retirement on your own in the sense that do you today have access to a retirement fund.

I do have access to a retirement fund. But I'll tell you the small flat I have in Belgium to go see my children.

Unfortunately, I buy it as a.

Life annuity for the good reason that I didn't have any savings left to paid cash, which means I need to continue to pay as long as the person is alive. And for now, each month I got to pay nine hundred and fifteen euros, So remove that from my pension as well as all the taxes. I'm strangled.

It goes fast.

Yes, I still suffer from it today because I don't have enough money because of him.

What do you think would have happened if you had followed him?

Now that I know the truth, I would have died, as Frederick used to say, instead of Jibois, he said Jue Bush. That's it.

Either he would have.

Lost me somewhere there or he would have put pill on my face directly, being that I did have sleep up near. He had proof of my children went after him in the justice system because there was a medical fire. Even too, it wasn't difficult. If I had died, it wouldn't have been the pill, but sleep up near that went on for too long. If I had followed him, I wouldn't have survived, There's no doubt about it. Or he would have abandoned me in Bali like the tone woman or in the bush in any way.

Do you have anything else to add, things that we maybe haven't covered.

No, I don't think so.

Let's say, for everything, he had tales to get my money out of my pocket. He would even stories all the time, and I believed him, and I still don't understand myself for it. If other people think that are interrogating me, they will learn more about the case. I'm happy to do anything. My goal is this, as I said, since we won't be able to resurrect the Lady's mom, well, for me, it would be to get my money back and end my days at ease.

Did you manage to forgive yourself for this time of your life?

No?

Really, no, I'm still mad at myself. I'm still mad.

At myself, even knowing the truth.

Who is yes, because I thought I understood so well the truth about my clients. You know, a lot of clients like to get a bigger sum and sometimes even provide false testimonies. And I would make sure I would get to know my clients at some point in my life. I had five hundred of them, and I didn't see this. I don't understand. I don't understand. I didn't change. I was never stupid. I've had claims before that I refused to help because I knew something was illegal with that guy.

My children in what way because I don't have anything else to offer.

Before every time there was a celebration on my place, I would always pay for everything, absolutely everything. I wouldn't even expect a flower bouquet. I would offer them everything. And the fact that I can't do that anymore, they also suffer the consequences for that.

Unfortunately, there are things like this that we can change. But it's good to be able to talk about it that people can learn about your story. Ultimately, it's probably about acceptance of something you don't understand. And that it could happen to anyone, that there are many people just like he that were hurt by the same man.

That man cannot continue to hurt people. That's what needs to be done, because he's still capable of this. Because when I found out the truth, he was still in Belgium. I had him on the phone and I said to him, give me back everything it took from me, and he had the nerve to tell me I didn't take anything from you.

So he had him on the phone and he denied.

Yes exactly. He threatened me, said if I hear anything else from you, so that meant if I reported him, But I still did. I told myself, no, he cannot continue to hurt everyone around him. And how surprised I was when I heard about the other case from the torn airpolice because I thought he wouldn't dare try anything else. Well that wasn't true.

Well, we hope with our podcast about Marion Barter that we can find enough evidence so he can be found guilty. It would be good to get to that point then. Anyway, thank you so much to have answered all of our questions today, to have fully engaged in it. We have things, will find closure and we wish you the best, so thank you again so much for answering our call.

You're welcome. What I will do is contact the twenty police and ask whether this lady, if she's still alive, who'd agree to further report against him. She probably has more to tell than me, since she found herself in this situation and they so she accepted more things than it is in the report I have In Belgium, I have the name of the twenty detective, so I could try to contact him, provaded that he's not retired, et cetera. One because a lot of time has past.

Did you ever find out the name of the lady to which it happened?

No, And this story is about to be spread even further. Our colleague from the Luxembourg Word, Tom Riddell, says they will publish articles with their sister newspapers Arkaner Zaiitung and Arkaner Nagwichten. Together the printed versions have a combined circulation of eighty eight thousand people, but there are likely more

A lot of people have asked whether Julane's evidence will be considered as part of the current in quest. The answer is no. However, Soundly has the option of requesting a new inquest based on further evidence now coming to light. If the coroner recommends New South Wales Police continue their investigation and refers the case to the Director of Public Prosecutions to assess whether there's enough evidence for criminal proceedings

Just now. I have called the place where Frederic d'davari rented a room in two thousand and six. They gave me the following information. Name for Direkt o'davari, date of birth eight of July nineteen thirty nine. Place of birth, Tournay, Belgium. Number of ID document E seven five delivered Newcastle. Duration of the rand June two thousand and six to September two thousand and six. Address in Australia your Thong Road

Joni has been chasing down documents regarding the purchase of property by Rick Blum's daughter, particularly the one that was mentioned by a former neighbor last episode.

Attached to the docks for mate's purchase on twenty fifth of October two thousand for three slash forty eight to fifty Cedar Crescent in East Ballina two four seven eight. It was bought for one hundred and thirty thousand banklone one hundred and four thousand, therefore twenty six thousand either oweing or a deposit. The first home buyers grant gave an amount of seven thousand plus total exemption for stamp duty. Thus she would have needed nineteen thousand for that unit purchase.

Just jumping in here suggested in episode forty four Tainted Love that both children of Rick received an inheritance from their grandmother in either nineteen ninety eight or nineteen ninety nine, of approximately thirty thousand dollars Australian each. At the Inquest. Diane Dehader very stated this when Casselton asked her about it. Question, when either Andre or Maria died, do you know whether

Then Joni goes on to explain the details of my day's property purchase in two thousand, as explained earlier in an email from our listener.

I make no suggestion that this purchase was done using funds gained from her father, but just stating that it was done. Interestingly, this property is only a few houses up on the same street from where Rick and the family were living in a first floor apartment in nineteen eighty nine with a beautiful ocean view and a walk

Joni also had this to say about Rick Blum's ex wife, Aloner.

Look, I'm acutely aware that this situation we're about to describe does include family members who are still very much living and affected by this every day, and we do our absolute best to protect those who have offered information that may help to find out what's happened to Marian.

Going back there.

I ordered up a record I thumbed through a thickish folder, a post mortem investigation record or a body card of missus Alona read as. There was no inquest at this time. Elona was aged thirty one years when she died. She was a hairdresser at the local Edward Beale salon. At this time, she had two young children. On the thirteenth of July nineteen seventy seven, Ilona was found slumped over the steering wheel of her car at an intersection in Saint Kilda. There was no damage to the car and

I located her.

Final resting place with some difficulty in the Roman Catholic section amongst a swarm of ballants. After returning home and more searching, I discovered that there was a community board that ran the cemetery up until it was moved under the banner of the larger Springvale Botanical Cemetery. I found a newspaper article from the early two thousands in the local paper about the community board. Rang the mobile phone number and a lady answered from a remote town in

We've heard more from Rick and Diane's former neighbor as well.

Hi, Allison, I don't want to be a past but I remember a few other things about Rick Bloom and his family. Listening to the podcast and reading comments has triggered my memory. One night, their son David brought his new girlfriend to his parents' place next door after they left I heard Diane yell at her husband, don't you ever say something again. She was not the quiet, meek wife. I also remember that shortly after Rick returned from his overseas trip, his son bought himself a brand new Honda

We all do.

I found this odd that the whole family owned a big house, but they lived in a run down little unit. The house was later sold, and Rick wanted to complain to the real estate agent because it didn't sell fast enough. When the daughter got married in Bali, my husband picked up Rick and Diane from the Gold Coast airport. Rick gave him one hundred dollars for petrol. They were not poor, but lived in Squalor. I have a photo. In hindsight, I think they wanted to be mobile and not worry

Regards ingrid English recollection of Diane differs significantly from Angela from Kazi, who was a teenager when she knew the d'headaberries.

Well, my recollection of Rick was that in the nineties he had darker gray hair than what he does now from what I've seen on the footage, and that was short at the sides of the back and sort of probably similar length on top, and a similar kind of build, maybe not quite a success and sort of much more upright than sort of the images we've seen of him

The contrasting accounts aren't unusual, as Angela only really saw Diane in public, whereas Ingrid saw Diane at her home. That's her domain, So that would explain why she's confident and asserts herself more. It's hard to know what the real relationship between Diane and Rick actually is, but they have been together for a very long time. Diane knows her husband, but none of this proves she had anything to do with his illicit activities.

Now, a bit of a change of pace, an example of why it's so important that each missing person's case is investigated thoroughly. The dedication of a single police officer

Wife, Christopher Michael Dawson, on the charge little about eight January nineteen eighty two at Bayview or elsewhere in the state of New South Wales, you did murder Lynnette Dawson. I find you guilty when you mess it down.

I was just given her a job, and this particular one was Lynn Dawson in ninet ninety eight. And at that stage I was stationed at d Y and Sydney's Northern Beaches and I didn't live far from there, so all the beaches which I grew up and I know the area backwards, so I was comfortable in working in an area that I knew quite well. And I've got the Dawson case in July nine ninety eight.

And what were your first thoughts.

Well, I've got a single suit of paper with a missing person's number on it and a black and white photograph of Lynnette Dawson and the circumstances where she had been reported missing. And it wasn't until I think I spoke to are a person by the name as sam as JC that I immediately knew and I spelled a rat about that former husband.

So does it come down to gut instinct a lot in your job, because.

I was asked this in the trial, but.

I would probably on reflection in hindsight, yes, it is. You know something's happened. You know, it's just that gut and I don't know where.

It comes from.

I think it's probably all the different avenues of different investigations if you've done over the years, and some weird.

Stuff as well.

And I really believe that it is a gut instinct and it just drives you more or less. And you know, I've never locked anyone up has been innocent, So and my gut feeling has probably been right all the way through.

Anyway, do you get the encouragement to follow through on these sorts of things or is there a lot more pressure to sort of clear it up as quickly as you can.

A quick investigation is a good one, but that could you know, you could come and start with the brief evidence for a quarter or a jury down the track somewhere. So I was encouraged, and I had a wonderful detective inspector, Paul Hume. There was a DVY at the time, and he was my superior, but he gave me a lot of slack to work on this particular Dawson brief, and he encouraged me all the way through. I was listed at various times by a different staff to do various things.

And I must say without.

His support, it probably wouldn't have gone anywhere. If there was pressure on me to wrap it up as quickly as possible. I knew that it wouldn't be wrapping it up in a week or a month or a year. I knew that was going to be a lengthy investigation because allegedly Lynn had been cited at various places, so we had to negate all of that before we could really progress onto anything more serious.

So right from the beginning, you didn't believe that you'd gone missing of her own volition.

No, not a mother of two young children who had difficulty conceiving children and had also expressed a desire to adopt. So this particularly young mother age thirty three when she went missing, was also looking forward to her eldest daughter's first day at preschool and what mother wouldn't and for her to walk off the face of the earth, it was unplausible to me. And I knew straightaway that Chris Dausen was in the cross theres from day one, really and just it just meant we're.

Not We've got to get this right.

So it took a lot of time, and eventually we took it to a number of perennial inquests.

Why did it take so long? And I know you've answered this question a lot of times, but obviously you come across a lot of roadblocks, you do.

You do, Look, you have a lot of misinformation, a lot of wild leads, et cetera.

That term fruitless.

The times that it took it was because I took it to the coroner at the first about in two thousand and one, and the coroner read the brief of it evidence that cleve coin in his court and terminated the inquest and recommended that a known person be charged with an indictable offense. So obviously a known person would be the suspect and the indicitible fence would be murdered. It went to the DPP and then some nine months later they informed me that they wouldn't proceed with any

I wasn't satisfied with the.

Director of Public Prosecutions, reasoning they're just ad insufficient evidence. When I inspired, I was told that they couldn't tell me where I was short due to privileged information.

So I sort of stuck it in no man's land really.

And then back in the two thousand and three, I approached the Glibe Coroner's Court again to the sergeant assisting the coroner and we decided then to run another inquest in two thousand and three at Westmead before Magistrate Karllenovic, who was this ideputy state coroner, and that involved on this particular occasion, having all the witnesses giving their evidence before the coroner and being asked questions by the sergeant assist in the coroner, and also the defense less of

What I don't understand is a lot of these cases I find people like yourself are discouraged to you know, you basically said, look, you know the best you can hope for as a coronal, or you know, we don't have the resources, or you know what I mean. How come you were able to keep beating the drum on this.

Because I think I had a fair bit of media in two thousand and three with the Australian story, so that kept it alive some some like, you know, it's like a candle.

I lit candle flickering in the wind, but it wasn't going out, and I think I was.

I think that my other superiors where I worked at different commands, sort of knew my determination about this, and I think they were got it a bit shy and telling me to know to stop it or it's going to go nowhere, forget it. You got you've got other jobs, don't forget. I have plenty other investigations going on at the same time, so I had to prioritize all my investigations. And you know, certainly there was some of the investigations I was running. You know, I was in at risk

Order about it.

I mean that's good. I guess having that background and maybe you know, having done the hard yards and things like that, you had a status potentially that some of the others that I've heard, you know, that have come up against these things are just you know, like come on, get over it sort of thing. So there wasn't any pressure. There was no detriment to your career to keep stealing this case.

No, Look, I don't think so.

The periods of stalling were I suppose the drive was diminishing because I didn't know where I was going with this at that stage. And after the second inquest, and I thought it was a very very healthy inquest and all the witnesses across examined and they gave their evidence before the coroner. He also terminated that inquest up to five days of hearing and directed that a known person be charged with murder.

And yet again the DPP, for their own.

Reasons which I'm not tribute to, wouldn't proceed with an indictment. That it takes the air out of your lunch basically, And how do to go back to a family and tell them that when you have done everything as as much as possible that you think you could. And it also is a hindrance to me because knowing that they wouldn't issue an indictment against Dawson, and I couldn't go and lock him up.

I couldn't go. I could go off, could have.

Gone and arrested him and charged him, but it would have been quite admit, because there was going to be no prosecution. So I didn't do that, and it may have even believed to be like a malicious prosecution if I'd had gone and done that.

So I had to stick within the guidelines and sit on there, you.

Know, knowing what they were saying that they weren't going to prosecute I, and they just kept saying, keep going, keep going with it. And that's what I did for all up eighteen odd years.

That's a DPP that said that kept going with it.

I had a meeting with them in the early who might have been twenty eleven, twenty twelve, and it was the deputy director of the DPP. There was the chief of staff to the police Minister President. There was the command of the homicide squad. My commander was there, and I gave a briefing, a verbal briefing to the DPP, the deputy director, and eventually he just said to me,

But he just keep going with it. And what do you do? How do you get more evidence?

You know, you can't make it up, So you know, we did various media stuff, and luckily I had a fairly good relationship with the police murder unit and they were very, very very good with their job, and when I required them assistance, I went to them and they would put out a press release and suddenly I would have a little bit more interested in And I have different people wreaking crime stoppers, et cetera, or other witnesses coming forward.

You seem so different to a lot of them, these others when we start the cold cases, in the sense that you see the benefit of getting media and it's not a detriment, you know, like you an anomally in that respect.

It's not too many people would agree with me in that because I think the media are intrusive and right the wrong they you know, people say, I don't read that newspaper, this particularly news, because it's all rubbish. But who else is going to help me. There's someone else out there sticking the hand up and saying, well, you know, we'll help you with this.

And it was to me.

I've always said in my life as a police officer, the police are the community and the community are the police. So to get that out there via and particularly on the Northern beaches where a large circulation of the local rag was called the Many Day, and everyone had heard about Lin Dawson, and it's got conversations generated and other

I think they do and I use them to my best of my ability.

Is that the difference I mean because something like a lind Dawson case and some of these others, obviously the whole advent of podcasts has meant that these cold cases are being represented all the time. Is that the difference then is having that tenacity and that you know, that drive and everything to rather than say, look, we just want to clear this up, just keep pursuing it because you know you don't know what's going to come out.

Absolutely?

And I think nowadays we have to be naive to think that the media can't or investigative journalism doesn't assist a case.

It may do.

Some will argue that it may interfere with a jury, it may playing things in their minds before a person get a fair trial, and that's I understand that completely. But you know, without using that avenue, I was basically stalled at the water hell, so I was dog battling.

So I guess the other thing is when there is a case where the investigation potentially didn't handle it well at the beginning, that seems to be that maybe the difference is, you know, the images everything, and if there's potential needative exposure for people who didn't quite handle it the way they should have in the first place. Is that where I suppose there might be more opposition in these sorts of cases.

Yeah, look, going back.

To the early eighties and when particularly when she went missing, it wasn't handled very well, but in saying that that there's two sides to every story, and people were being told that Dawson had heard from his wife and she was okay basically, or she was up on the Central coast or staying with friends. So the way that we would do things now is a lot different. I think if we had crossed our tas in those days and dotted our eyes, it may have.

Been a little bit different.

I think certainly. The one other cases that I've worked on were that the conclusions drawn at the beginning, and there seems to be a tendency in a lot of cases, not in yours, thank goodness, as a cold you know, coming into it as a cold case where they don't want you to disagree with the conclusion that was drawn at the time. Did you come across.

That, No, not really.

I just think we have to put a new set of fresh eyes on the on the brief and you really can't criticize what happened earlier, and it was you know, unfortunately, some of the records that we required weren't available. That was disappointing not to have those because they weren't kept for I think after seven years they were all destroyed so we had never had those records, and that would have been so very very handy for the investigation because we could have gone back and looked at certain phone

Across a brief And I guess the other thing is a lot of families and there seems to be a dearth of places that families and victims can go. You know, Like I've come across different groups that you have people in there where they just feel like the police aren't helping. In your case, thank goodness you were there, but there's a lot of people trying to get justice out their families and that where they feel like the police aren't interested in This is all over the country. This is

I think this daw this Dawson verdict is really it probably will and I'd like to think that will change. That's that that thinking. We are a better police force now than we were back in the eighties. And I know for a fact that if any missing personnel is reported to the police that it is a very very thorough investigation now. And sometimes we don't have all the answers for the family. Unfortunately, there are just some things we just can't solve, and we have to tell that

And what happened forty years.

Later, the big deficit you had was not having a body. Did you ever think without a body you'd be able to get a murder charge?

No?

No, because there are stated cases previously in our judicial system where there have been convictions of nobody. And I wasn't concerned about that at all because too coroners who found her to be deceased, So that was a legal argument that they'd be get over very quickly. But I have no problem with nobody homicides because there have been people convicted and there are some still serving custodial sentence for those homicides.

What about when they lie in inquest because obviously assuming that Chris Dawson and his brother would have been part of those, is there any way that you can kind of get them on perjury or anything like that in the process, or it was always you know, you're kind of limited to just chasing the murder charge.

Oh no, no, that's that's not for me to investigate. That's really a matter for the attorney general about perjury. But look, you know you've got to say, you are going to court, you're pulling the finger at somebody and they're telling you a different story.

That's and that's the evidence.

That's where we come down to, you know, a verdict who's telling the truth. It's got to be on beyond a reason no doubt that someone's been murdered, and that's a pretty high bar when you look at it, particularly for a jury matter.

But if they're telling FIBs.

Well, you know, I've been lied to all my life as a police officer, and I'm just used to it. And it doesn't worry me when people lie, because when they do, they come unstuck. And it doesn't worry me if they lie to me because I know that eventually that I'm going to be see through their lives and prove that they.

Are What would you say to you want to be detectives starting out? You know, like, how do you as you say, it is a different world, but in some ways it's probably a bit harder with some of the barriers, like they don't have your status, they don't have your you know, having laid the groundwork and everything. And what advice would you give to true detectives who want to solve crimes, want to solve murders.

And I've thought about this quite often too, because you know, and some of my shortcomings as with all, but make sure that you take meticulous notes and record them, then follow them on your investigation system, because years later they can be brought up and as evidence, et cetera, or shown you as an ad been worrying whilst you've been cross examined in the witness box ever report with the family.

Do not give up.

Don't let it go, because as we've seen in this matter, this could have been easily forgotten about and never reserviced again, and then we would have had a family out there that will never know the answers. Then Dawson's parents went to their graves not knowing what happened to their daughter. The two young children grew up not knowing what happened to their mother, and now they do. And maybe if

What about if you're discouraged, What about if people say to you you're chasing your tail. The most you can hope for is a coronial.

Yes, well that's well through the current has got a function to determine who, what, when, we're and why, And particularly in matter of suicide, families want to get to the bottom of what happened. And with our investigations we do that. We paint the current a picture and he makes the determination and he gives an outcome. If that's the best as far as you can go, we'll go and do it. But make sure everything you've done is meticulous and you do a good job. I look in

But the trust your gut instinct.

Always trust your gut because you'll find you're never wrong.

And I think it's just common sense.

People that we know we know between right and wrong, and that's common sense. And that's if you know something is not right, you have that feeling about something's not right, we'll go with your float. Don't put blinkers on. Think outside the square as well. You know, as I said, when you're doing investigations, and I teach this to the young young aspiring detectives in the investigator's course. You know, don't be one eyed about something. You don't have your

At the end of the day, I think, yeah, I think I did.

Yeah, I think you did too.

Yeah.

I really appreciate you taking the time and you are an inspiration because you know, we come across so many people that are frustrated and everything and just feel like they've got no hope and just to have someone say that there is hope, you know, just makes it's just good to have a positive angle.

Yeah, oh thanks, Alis. I really appreciate your crime words.

And as I said, I'm a big fan of the media and you know, without them, but I don't think that this would have gone over the line without that, you know, I reached out to so many people halfway around the world. People knew about this, you know, so it was always on someone's lips somewhere, And that's what we don't want to forget that.

We have got to keep this.

Going all the time, you know, because it can easily just be forgotten.

At the very least, Rick Blum knows more about Marian's disappearance than he's willing to tell, and he's committed other crimes, the extent of which we're yet to know. We're hoping the coroner recommends charges be laid against Blum, or at least recommends he be investigated further, and refers the case to the Office of the Director of Pblic Prosecutions. They can then assess what charges, if any, can be laid. They can take into account all evidence, regardless if it

The Lady Vanishes has now been running for more than three years. There are forty five episodes, twenty one conversations and six catch up episodes which are being used by new and existing listeners to get a snapshot of the first twenty plus episodes. This is a case where we had no inkling of what was done and who had done it. We began with no guarantees that we would find anything. The first crucial thing we focused on was the name Remachel. We assessed that it was a key