¶ Tornado Survival and Gundog Training
What is up everyone and thank you again for joining us on another episode of the Lab . This episode was super fun . I sat down in the lodge , the recent house home for my friend and guest , wally Shalau . So Wally has become one of my closest buds in this journey of gundogs and the things that they bring into our lives .
He and my friend Don run the Great Lakes campus of Southern Oak Kennels and I've learned a lot about dog training from Wally . We have fun training and running dogs together . Lots of banter , lots of back and forth .
He's been here at my place since mid-February working his dogs in the water and we're going to talk a lot about that , a lot about why he does it , why he's down here , what he's hoping to accomplish and some methods and some thought processes that I think are beneficial for anyone and everyone who seeks to have a dog with a better water attitude .
So I hope you guys enjoy this conversation with my bud , wally , and I also hope that by the time this podcast airs we have not been hit by another tornado . If you guys who are listening are already members of Cornerstone Gun Dog Academy , hope you guys are having an awesome . Already members of Cornerstone Gundog Academy .
Hope you guys are having an awesome spring walking through the modules , maybe just brushing up on some stuff in the advanced courses . If you're not a member , what are you waiting on ?
Hope you guys will consider hopping on our website , cornerstonegundogacademycom and checking out what all we have to offer you , because I am sure that we have at least one offering that will help you to become a better dog trainer and dog handler . So check it out .
Welcome to the Lab , a Cornerstone Gundog Academy podcast focused on all things gundogs , good times and the great outdoors . I'm your host , barton Ramsey . What's up everyone ? Back with episode number 15 . Waited till the very last second possible . I'm here with Wally Shalau in the lodge in person hanging out . What's up man ? What's going on ?
So Wally has been here at well , here is Southern Oak Kennel headquarters since the middle of February and we're recording this on April 1st and we have to start out by explaining what April 1st means to us . I know it is April Fool's Day , but for us it is the anniversary of the great tornado .
Surviving the tornado from last year ?
Yes , and we were in the lodge that was incomplete last year . We were hoping it would be finished for Wally's visit . He ended up staying in the guest room upstairs at my house the entire what two months . Last year it was two months , two full months in the house , and then at the very end we had some storms roll through .
I decided to leave town and last minute thought that the storms were past and came back . What made you decide last year to move your dog trailer ? I never asked you that .
That's a great question . I just I knew they had talked about . Well , maybe it had something to do with the tree that fell on my truck on the storm before that .
That's right , that's right . So last year during the spring cornerstone members weekend , I was hanging out at a hotel with Shane Kendrick and tornadoes hit really close to here and the winds came through here pretty strong and knocked a tree over , hit your truck and my dog trailer .
Yes , it brushed up against your dog trailer and was laying against my truck .
Yeah , Didn't damage a lot , broke a light off and then the following weekend , exactly a week later , we were home again . I left , wally decided to move his dog trailer , which he moved again today , but it was in the airing yard and , for those who haven't been here , this is a very wooded set of acres I have here .
It used to be completely covered in woods , but our airing yard is super wooded , lots of trees , and wally's dog trailer was out there . I had all my dogs in my dog trailer .
He had his dogs loaded up in his trailer just because we were in the I don't know how they rate like the danger zone for tornadoes , but we were in the worst , like it was high risk yes , like high risk was five and we were at six . And while I went to sleep I came home and I was watching TV .
I've told the story a few times but the weatherman started giving very specific warnings about where it was coming and if you've ever been here , we're right behind Camp Creek Baptist Church . And at one point our weatherman shout out to Matt Walbon . He said Camp Creek Baptist Church , you have 90 seconds . And I was like , dude , that's my yard .
So I woke , wally up , I don't think you touched the step the whole way down . No , it was fast skidded down and we could just hear trees snapping like two by fours and uh , power went out and uh , yeah , we lost I don't even know how many trees over 50 . And somehow this lodge did not get destroyed Somehow Miraculous , because trees were everywhere over here .
It was surprising . Yeah , but you've got this headlamp . What brand is that ?
thing .
I'm not even sure what brand it is , wally has this over there , wally , I don't think I've ever seen you charge it . It says like headlight on it that's all I know Like an Amazon special headlamp that he wears that I promise you wherever you're listening to this podcast , if you just look our direction at night , you can see it .
It's visible from outer space and he put the headlamp on . I filled up a Yeti cup full of bourbon and we just started walking around and I didn't have a bright light so I couldn't see very much and I just kept hearing Wally say oh man , you've got damage . And right where your trailer was , I remember what country it was .
I don't know if they're . What do you call those cypress trees or uh , I'm not sure what kind they were . Yeah , they weren't huge trees , but they would have definitely made it difficult to get into the trailer .
Yeah , yeah , right where his trailer was was a tree . There were trees on the fence so we had no airing yard . Boy , it was crazy . Kennels were broken . That was a year ago . This year we've had really no . We had a storm with some wind the other day that did some damage , but no tornadoes . And that's pretty rare , because how many years have ?
you been coming down here . I think this is number six .
So that's crazy . So six years Wally's done a spring trip down here and we've pretty much had some tornado tornadic activity . Every year 've had to get in the the old storm shelter with dogs .
I think I told don it's at least two warnings , probably every year . I think last year might have been three , or even when I stayed at cory's place it might have been three , yeah , last year was pretty rough last year .
I think was the worst I can remember , but yeah , so of course this year we're recording this on April Fool's Day , april 1st . You're going to leave tomorrow , but I don't think you're going to be . I'm leaving out of town tomorrow , I don't think you're going to get to go and we have tornado warnings tomorrow midday , so we haven't gotten out clear just yet .
Knock on some wood ? Not quite yet . Oh man , I will say this has probably been the best weather of any spring . I can remember you being down here .
I agree the rain has been timed out perfectly to where if it was going to . I think I had one day that I just said forget it and went to town , did some errands and everything like that . But other than that it's been at least able to get a half a day in .
Yeah , All right . So let's tell people what you do down here . Uh , for those of you don't know Wally , uh well , we'll give a little bit of background . When'd you start training dogs ? Uh , tell us about your first experiences training dogs and how long you've been doing that .
I got into it . I used to be big white tail archery deer hunter and I decided I was going to get a dog and start waterfowl hunting and train that dog to do waterfowl hunting to keep me out of the woods until the time was right and so happens I never really went back to the woods . So that was probably 13 years ago .
So I've been doing it since then , trained that dog and then , shortly after having that dog , started training more dogs for other people . So I've been training for other people approximately 11 , 12 years and it's just snowballed from there Lots of other people now .
Lots of other people
¶ Training Dogs in the South
. You guys started working with southern oak kennels . Oh , man , that was 2015 , 16 , 16 , yeah , before I moved to oklahoma . Yes , so yeah , eight years ago or so . Uh , wally and um , his compadre , don collier I might have don on the podcast one day I don't know if I can get him to talk , but uh don's a quiet , quiet fellow , I think he'd do it . Uh .
But they started working with , with my kennel . I mean , honestly , it was around like maybe a year before josh keith and I started cornerstone . Yes , uh , yeah , because the first summit we did , y'all were there and it was like a new thing .
We announced you guys in the next summit we announced cga .
Um yeah , so start training dogs and tell everybody where you're from and , uh , what it's like training dogs in the wintertime up there so don and I run the southern oak kennels great lakes now in michigan and when we first joined on , being from Michigan , it was always a great idea to come down south and get a couple months head start on the training season .
Since it's still the frozen tundra or we have eight inches of snow on the ground , water's frozen , eight inches of snow on the ground , water's frozen , and even if the water's not frozen it's usually about 35 to 40 degrees temperature wise , with the water basically too cold to get young dogs started up with the water training .
So we decided it was a good idea for us to start doing a south trip and Barton was more than willing to have us come down or have me come down and start doing some spring training down south , which allows me to get a probably a good two month headstart with the dogs and some of the water work that they need .
Yeah , yeah , I remember that first one . We had just finished the lodge , so that would tell me that was 2018 . Yeah , we finished it in the summer of 17, . But really got it like livable winter of 18 when you came down . So , yeah , that would be six .
Yeah , and I think the first trip down was only a month . It started with a month , and then it went to a month and a half and then now it varies from close to two months , yeah , when the warm up starts to happen up there .
And you talked about getting young dogs in . So you've got a trailer . I mean , tell us a little bit about the string of dogs that you have with you usually down here and like , what's your goal in the spring when you come down south , like what's the ? You know , obviously you've got plenty of land , you guys have 40 acres , you've got space to train .
What's your goal when you come down here in the spring , when when I first started coming down here , it was almost all young dogs , so the major goal was to get a lot of them in the water .
Since I can't do that up in Michigan Now it's kind of strung out to where I have a good mix of dogs , where half of them are either hunt test dogs or dogs coming in for a second round of training , and then also I have dogs that have been with us for three , four months in the winter time and now it's time to get them in the water .
It allows us to keep a constant flow of dogs and make it justifiable to keep the dog in for training , cause I'm going South to finish up , say , the last two months . I can do a lot of water work down South , so the main objective of coming down here is obviously I can do a lot of water work down south .
So the main objective of coming down here is obviously water . Yeah , lots and lots of water work . Yeah , I've been laughing .
So I've got a little tech pond behind the lodge . Uh , while he has been in the lodge this year , kennels are right here . It's all walking distance . I think you've run almost every angle imaginable . You've set up at places . I've come home from town and I look over . I'm like that's a great idea . I never thought to set up over there and it's been .
Yeah , you've been in the water . I mean , there've been very few days that you haven't been able to have the dogs in the water since you got here , which is pretty awesome .
I would say it's the most on these south trips . It is the most water training I've been able to do .
So let's talk a little bit about first the kind of the younger dogs . So you got these dogs and let's say they're two , three months in . They came here and maybe they didn't even know their name . Maybe somebody used Cornerstone and they knew some basics , right , a lot of people do that .
They were retrieving , basically steady , maybe delivering a hand or something . With those dogs you're here . What's your goal in two months ? Let's just say they've never even been in the water . What's your goal in two months with a dog like that coming down here in the spring ?
And this depends on the dog . The biggest goal is one get him in the water , get him comfortable with the water , get him swimming . The end goal is going to be the dog needs to be de-cheated .
The dog should be comfortable with , at least started on , some whistle stops in the water , some casting in the water , and the great thing about starting them on a pond , like you have at a young age , is entries exits .
It becomes nothing to the dogs because you have so many options for re-entries and exits on the water that it's not a big deal for them at all .
So the biggest deal for them is to get them comfortable swimming , get them comfortable with exiting the water and reentering the water , all kinds of marking concepts for them , very cheaty marks to being very simple marks After being here for two months , if the dog has never been in the water , usually after two months they are doing some very difficult and very
cheaty marks and understand what I say the rules of the water .
Yeah , let's go into that , Cause that's going to transition in some of the advanced dogs .
¶ Water Training Concepts for Dog
Um , on the podcast I'll try to get a drone pick , at least get a picture of the tech pond that I have . Um , when we say tech one , just a piece of water that's been kind of intentionally designed for dog training . Mine's a real tight , kind of small .
I don't even know how big that is maybe an acre , Half to three quarters of an acre Perfect for teaching , yeah .
So the way I did mine is I've obviously had limited space , but I wanted to be able to teach the concepts without having to have really long swims , Because when you're trying to get through 12 , 15 dogs in a setup in a day , you got a long swim that's going to take forever , Right ? So you can teach this .
By concept , I mean things like Wally just said , so getting in and out of water or not getting out of the water , and we'll talk about what those rules are in a second . But the pond is intentionally designed . I tell people , even with young dogs , like hey , you can come over here and you can accomplish a lot in a short amount of time .
Over here in the water . There's not not any really huge swim . In fact I've seen you do all the way down the gut of the pond several times and even that doesn't take a minute and a half . You know two minutes to get down there .
So it's more than enough distance . So yeah , judge what the dog is going to do .
Yeah .
So when you say , teach them kind of the rules of the water , you've got a lot of dogs that you're you're wanting to train to a high level , high standard , probably a lot of dogs that are going to run HRC finish level , um , you guys have I don't even know how many every year that you run but a lot of client dogs and then even the ones that aren't ,
especially when it comes to water work and blind retrieves . You're still really training to that standard with your dogs . Um , what are some of the rules of a water that you hope we talked about it this morning when Marty Haynes was here . You hope they're looking out and seeing stuff .
What are the rules that you hope that they're naturally understanding after you've had them here for their spring ?
season , the one I usually like to start with is , besides the obvious , of de-cheating . So that basically means if there's a sliver of water between the mark and where the dog is , they need to understand , they need to go through the water and they also need to return in the water and on your pond . It's pretty simple to do .
You can do a bunch of hand toss , you could cut a bunch of corners . So once we get through that , the first one I like to start with is stay in the water . I like to set up a lot of white posts or pattern binds on the pond that are set up to where it might be down the shore .
They have to be comfortable getting in the water , staying in the water all the way to the white post and then getting back in the water . That's the one I like to start with . It's usually the most difficult for the dogs because they usually like to pull the land anyway Once I get through , with most of them being comfortable with staying in the water .
Now we're going to go to exits and reentries . It's going to start with simpler stuff of just over one peninsula . Then we move to going in and out over two peninsulas or maybe one . You have two islands out on the pond , so they may have to go over one peninsula . Then we move to going in and out over two peninsulas or maybe one .
You have two islands out on the pond , so they may have to go over one of the islands . And again , a lot of this is pattern blinds , or set up for a mark to run the mark the way I want them to run the mark . It can be done either way . Those are the two main ones .
Stay in the water , or exits and re-entries , and then you could just make them more advanced as you go , or there's tighter re-entries and just what you expect the dog to do for that day yeah .
so a lot of the times , when you first get here , a ton of the marks and the , the white posts , blinds , especially some of the blinds that you're repeating um , it's way more of a 90 degree entry and re and exit and re-entry , which is a super clear picture , right , take this straight line .
But then you get to today , which is , I mean , like you're about to leave , so you're , you've got the I would call more advanced dogs out there and I I mean it is far from 90 degrees , it's a very , very tight angle , right ? Yes , tell us a little bit about that .
As far as if you're a guy out there and you really want a dog that runs , I mean what I would just call straight out , straight back , right , the straightest possible line to the mark and to the blind and the straightest possible line back , how are you teaching that dog , not on a blind , but , let's say , on a mark .
You have a mark with a very that middle mark . Today that you ran , you had a pretty normal entry , but then you had this angle exit and then an angle re-entry in a really small sliver of water . The dogs I saw ran it really well , but they've been here a little while how are you teaching dogs to run those particular re-entries and those exits on water ?
when it comes to marking , I would say it starts with building it from the very beginning . You have to start really small and that starts with the de-cheating portion of when I say de-cheating , again , like you talked about , it's going to be 90 degree entries , a very clear picture .
We're going to start , for instance , throwing one onto the peninsula and they have to swim straight across and then re-enter back in the water and come to me , and then we usually give them less water to work with as we make it skinnier water as we work through that stuff .
So , and then from there , I would say that's when we start working on the angle entries . Um , so we start throwing the , the marks instead of a straight 90 degree entry into the water , which the dogs , depending on the dog , some of them still try to square off those entries .
So it's a little bit of work to get them to do that , but once you know that they understand what they're supposed to do .
We talk a lot about not trying to interfere with the dog on marks , but a lot of the stuff is sometimes easier to teach with a mark , but the dog also has to be handling at that point in time so that's a big if you're going to start teaching really complex marks I feel like the dog needs to be handling , it needs to stop on a whistle , it needs to
understand why it's being stopped and most of my dogs , after being here for a month , even understand the rules of the water and they usually understand why they've been stopped because they have made a big adjustment one way or the other to go around the water , the other to go around the water .
So to talk about that , to build on that is when we're teaching the dog . The de-cheating portion is we usually will walk them back around . If they didn't come back through the water or they didn't go through the water , we'll recall and resend .
So I would say it's complex , there's a lot to it , but the easiest way is to start it with the de-cheating process and start small and then build on it .
Yeah , and when you say start small , you really mean start big , start with lots of water , yeah . Start with an easy choice , yes . And then by the end it becomes hey .
And I want to illustrate what you just said , cause even like a month ago , you were running a mark from up here closer to the lodge and it was definitely a cheaty entry , and you had a dog what's that ? Aussie pup , axel , axel , yeah , super nice dog , really like him .
And he obviously knew where he was supposed to get in and he made the decision to and a lot of you listening to this probably have this type of dog . He made the decision to and a lot of you listening to this probably have this , this type of dog .
He made the decision to try to go around and wally hit the whistle and he spun around to stop and then immediately just dove in the water , like I know , I know , I know you caught me , yeah , you caught me , and so what was great about that was he's learned . He's learned .
You know , he may have not taken it right then , but it was a great lesson for him of oh shoot , yeah , I know I've . I have learned in my month here , five weeks here , I got to go get in that water . You know , and I think ultimately you want to . You want these dogs that are seeking the water .
Yes , seeking the water . Yes , as you've seen , as we get towards the end of this trip , I do tend to throw marks to where sometimes they don't always go as far as I want them to . And technically the line would be is it fair for them to take the land ? Yes , it is .
But what I want to see out of the dog is make that choice of when they have the choice of land or water . I'd like to see them make the choice of water now on a mark like that .
Obviously , I'm not going to completely punish the dog for choosing land as well , but I'm going to help them through and try and make them , get them to understand what the right choice is going to be for them yeah , I've seen a lot of that and , yeah , we've we've had a few that the wind caught a thunder bumper and maybe the gas didn't didn't air up quite
as much as we thought and that landed .
You're like , oh yeah , that's a tight line .
¶ Building Positive Water Attitude in Dogs
Um , let's talk a little bit about attitude , because I think that's super important . And you had , you had one dog that , um , we were talking about last few days that you had out today and she's doing the water work . Just , your concern is she wasn't just super , super pumped about getting in the water .
Uh , you had a half sibling of hers who kind of started out that way and now he's you've got videos of him doing , you know , 10 , 12 foot water entries . Um , and they're not always going to have a big entry , and a big entry is not necessarily always the what you want anyway , but you do want , you're wanting to have a positive water attitude .
Uh , what are some things that you do early on ? I'm specifically thinking about when you're teaching them to go to those back piles to encourage , um , a positive attitude when it comes to water so mainly when to build onto the back piles .
When I get the dogs down here , obedience for the most part , or steadiness I should say , not necessarily obedience . I do have really loose obedience with a lot of the dogs . I try not to have a bunch of rules with them .
When it comes to water being a new thing , I feel like we have to loosen up the reins a little bit , let them get comfortable with it and build up that comfort level . So I do a lot of loose obedience . It may not even be requiring them to be steady , but when I throw the bumper I may be saying their name as I throw that bumper for them .
So that's the biggest thing that I do for them right now is there's a lot of fun throws into the water and with some dogs it may take a month to build up that attitude . Some it all of a sudden might change in one week .
So the one dog that you're talking about in particular she's been here for the whole two months was a little bit hesitant the whole time and her water attitude hasn't turned her I wouldn't say it's turned around a ton . It's better .
But with most of the dogs I would have 20 dogs down here I'm going to say right now , like Barton said , the entry , the jumping is not necessarily a sign of the water attitude . If they crash and hit the water hard and they're excited about going in the water , that's what we're looking for . I would say , out of 20 dogs , 15 of them have a jumping .
Yeah , some type of jumping entry and a lot of them did not when you got here . Oh no , not at all . There's a , there's a number of them that would tiptoe into the water , yeah , and be very , very cautious of it . And now they're crashing and hitting the water .
So it does start with a lot of fun retrieves , a lot of fun throws , and if I'm teaching a dog first off in the water , I'm probably going to try and find , like your pond towards the back has some lunging water . That's perfect if you have that not a requirement , but it is . It does make the dogs more comfortable . Their feet are touching the ground .
They're still going through water . But the biggest thing thing I do is I will preload the piles , I will have them sit there right next to me and I will throw bumpers over to that white post . I may spin them in a 360 and then send them .
I may not , but what I want to teach them is like , hey , you're going to go to that spot , you're going to learn that back command . So I'm going to toss them over there and learn that back command . So I'm going to toss them over there . And then now we're going to start teaching the back .
Yeah , and which does confuse some new owners on when to use back or when to use their name , and so I try to tell everybody . If it's anything that leads to the teaching of running a blind , we use back , even though they're sitting right next to me and I threw a bumper over there . We're teaching the fundamentals of running a blind .
Yeah , it's a building block .
Yeah , I've noticed that that's something that , um , I mean , even at the old house , I remember standing out and trying to , you know , running that off that peninsula in the pond back there the old house had a tech pond that we stumbled upon by accident and were able to train on , which was pretty awesome . It was very simple pond but it worked .
And uh , I remember walking .
Uh , maybe it was you and me and stone and you were helping him with a dog that just would go to the first time and then just wouldn't go that second time and , um , the dog would go out a little bit , turn around and look back at stone and it would frustrate him and you were like , just throw another one , you know , and it's all about like , yeah , he's
going to go get it . You know , he's out there in the middle of the field , you're not going to almost like a fire drill in the mark , you know .
Hey , hey .
And building up that like , hey , when he says back , I can go , it's going to be there .
You know and I noticed a lot of that when you first come down here with these dogs that a lot of them have never run a pile , you know , or they've run real simple tea drill with you right here in the yard and you're asking them to do , you know , piles off a point in the water to a cove , you know , missing another point , and I see that a lot the
first few weeks of just you throw in the dummy and then sending them back , or sending them back , and when they give you a good water entry , throw in one right over their head , where the direction they're looking . A dummy goes flying through the air and that really picks up their momentum . And I think what you said is super important .
I think some people might be scared to let a little bit of the steadiness go , but you can , you can , you can always reign that stuff back in yes , especially if they've already .
I have one or a couple of them that have been using cga and they're they've sent us videos of the dog being steady , uh . But when they get to me I just don't feel like they have that .
All their drive is not coming out , all their excitement's not coming out yet , and so I do forewarn them when they get videos , like I'm not going to require your dog to be steady right now . I want to see them , I want to see their full potential come out .
Once I feel like they started showing me their full potential or their full excitement , their full drive coming out . Now , like you said , I can rein them back in .
Yeah , man , I think that's so important for people to hear and it's a it's an issue that I saw happen before Cornerstone
¶ Training Young Dogs for Drive
. It went really when people would just get a smart puppy and they're like , oh my gosh , this dog's learning all these things so quickly .
And then with Cornerstone , we give everyone a roadmap for how to train this dog and I think that , like me , I mean a lot of us can get ahead of ourselves and we're like , okay , I got to see how many things I can teach this dog , and it kind of becomes a race . You know like , oh , how fast can I get this dog ?
And I've said this , actually , at several member weekends and I've said it in the Facebook group several times You're really not in a big hurry , you know . Slow it down and let the dog , you know , realize its own potential and its own drive and its energy . You can go back and do not necessarily the how your dog learns stuff .
That stuff's important when they're young , and you do a lot of that with food , right . Yes , you , how your dog learns stuff . That stuff's important when they're young and you do a lot of that with food , right . You heal and that's all fun too . You know .
It's when you start really reinforcing the obedience at a really young age , you can take a lot out of a dog . You can . You can kind of zap the . It's almost like putting a wet blanket over them . You know , and I see some dogs come in where people just they over emphasize obedience and they've not got the dog just amped up .
And I tell people all the time if you are , if you're bringing us a dog to train , and you give me the choice between a six-month-old dog that's completely obedient but just kind of walks out for retrieves , is steady but knows all these commands and just not not really super amped , or a dog that's just absolutely jacked to retrieve but barely knows its name all
day long . I'm taking the second one 100% , yeah , all day long , cause you can go back and do the obedience . You know that that part's there and now you've got all this drive to use to teach the obedience , yes , which is so much easier to me well , especially if they're driven over a bumper .
But yeah , I like to start with the food and everything with the dogs when they're young and teach them how to learn with the food and all that stuff . So , but yeah , to get a drivey dog , one that just is fired up to go out and retrieve , that's% the best thing that you could bring in .
Yeah , and that's why I say the loose obedience , and you could teach them all that stuff with the CGA . But I try not to require long sits or long sessions . It's going to be really fast . Yeah , so for me it's going to be their meal , yeah , yeah . Yeah , I don't use treats or anything , I just use their kibble .
Yeah , and it could be a five , ten minute quick little session with the dogs . That's what we encourage a lot of people to do and I think people have really picked up on that . You know we posted those videos a few years ago of uh who was it ? Like ice and boone , and you had a couple young ones and we were just doing heel work in the parking lot .
You know that was that three or four minutes , yeah , you know , of heel and recall and uh and the whole time they're like super excited , yeah , super excited and super focused on you , that's the biggest thing yeah , as you .
If they're not super hungry , then , or you get later in the session , then they start losing focus and at that point you've lost the dog . Yeah , it's better to just let it go .
Yeah , we have a drill that we named after you , called the wally drill . Uh , it's I . We haven't had a lot of young , young dogs here for this trip , so it hasn't been as a major part , but for several years it was the drill in the parking lot with youngsters .
Uh , for those of you who haven't seen it , if you're not inside cornerstone , we have a little casting drill called the wally drill that we we have it in a lot of our puppy modules for people to see , because I think that that drill captures what you're talking about . So walk us through that real fast . The the casting . Uh , because they're .
Obviously those dogs are not running blind retrieves yet , right , 100 , they're puppies . But what are you trying to accomplish with ? Or what things are you trying to accomplish with a fun drill like that ?
The main focus of the drill is to have fun . The dog's got to be excited about a bumper for the most part , and so you're just going to keep the dog's focus with that bumper and you're playing with that dog , you're running , you're moving fast , you're keeping the dog moving and this is the only way I teach the dogs how to stop on a whistle .
And I will tease them with the bumper and I'll blow the whistle and I'm holding that bumper where they can see it . And then , once they stop or sit down , then I will go ahead and throw the bumper to the right and I'll give them an over , or throw it to the left and give it over .
To be clear , I'm not requiring that dog to stay in that sitting position . This is a throw , an immediate reward for stopping or sitting , and it depends on the dog whether I require just a stop or a sit . Most of the time , when they get older , I don't require a full sit . So , yes , it's a quick reward .
So we'll start with a right over and as I throw it to the right , I'll say over , I'll throw it to the left and say over . And it's a constant game of playing , teaching or having them chase you with the bumper .
I may be running away from them , maybe running next to them , hitting the whistle , and I'm basically teaching them to stop on the whistle and I'm and I'm introducing them into casting . To what now ? We're doing right overs , we're doing leftovers . If I stop them , I throw it back with my right hand . I'll say back and , and they should turn that direction .
Or I'll stop them and throw with my left hand and they'll turn that direction . So , in a fun way , now I am teaching that dog one to pay attention to me , two to have a good eye on my hands and what they're doing , and then introducing them into casting . Yeah , and they have zero idea they don't know any .
They don't know any .
It's not like they think they're in class yeah , it's just completely out playing , playing and having fun and it actually it works .
Yeah , I take dogs through the formal t drill after doing that with them for a while and they already know yeah , they halfway know what they're supposed to be doing yeah , I love it because um , we've talked about it but it develops a dog that sits what they're supposed to be doing .
Yeah , I love it because um , we've talked about it but it develops a dog that sits because they're excited to work with you and not because they're scared about what's about to happen .
Very true , and you see that with your dogs when you're running drills , even though even if the dog has an e-collar on to reinforce a sit if you need it , or reinforce whatever command if you need it , your dogs , whatever command , if you need it , your dogs are not sitting . I don't think I can recall any dogs you've had who sit scared that .
You , if you're listening to this , you've seen it . You've seen dogs that they turn around on a blind and they look nervous because what's about to happen to me . But I think , because of that drill , and even when you get dogs back in , you run fun stuff like that with them when they sit , they're pumped back in . You run fun stuff like that with them .
When they sit , they're pumped , they're . They're not even the ones that really want to keep going . Yes , they're like I'm okay with the . Their tails are wagging , their ears are up because that drill teaches them . Okay , we're playing this game . I got to look at him .
That's where the reward's going to come from and , yeah , I love that drill I build off that drill .
also , when I do start the formal t , I will usually keep a bumper in my hand , and we've already done driving back to back piles . It has been introduced to doing single piles and pile work .
But I will also continue on with that drill of stopping them and instead of just giving them a right over to a pile , I will stop them and I will throw a bumper and tell them over .
So it's just a building block to keep them confident and , like you said , keep them engaged and happy to stop , because now , hey , they know they're going to get a reward and I will start doing it with almost every time I stop them and then it will slowly start going away to where I don't throw one for them anymore .
Yeah , and they're anticipating whatever cash you're going to do next . And it usually gives you a more , a better and quicker response to your cast as well , because they're just more excited to take it . Yeah , yeah , I love that .
I love that , and I think one of the things I've seen people do since I started training dogs is just throw too many meaningless retrieves with puppies to the point where they get bored . Yes , and a lot of times it's just sit here and chunking it right . Sit here chunking it .
Well , that drill is a really fun way I feel like to give your dog , because I think a lot of people are just trying to burn off like puppy energy , you know , because they're crazy , you know they got to get it out , but that drill is a fun way to do that in a way that they stay really engaged .
Yes , because they don't know what's coming next and , like you said , it's not meaningless . You're actually teaching while you do it .
That muscle memory is pretty . I did it with Ray and have done it this past season with Honey and it's pretty wild to see , even after like four or five times of playing that that little fun drill , if you stop them and you just start raising a hand , they twitch back that way . Yeah , it's like they just learn .
Okay , I know what the hands mean now and that's man to teach a young dog that and it almost becomes just ingrained to where they're not even thinking about . I mean , truthfully , if we're gonna get , we're getting to talk about blind retrieves . I really don't want a dog thinking about my casts . I want them just taking my cast right . I don't want them to .
You're not doing geometry , you know . I just want you to go the way I send you and so , yeah , that muscle memory of just quick , snappy , yeah , whichever way his hand goes , that's the way I'm gonna . I'm gonna go right now . That's to me better than goes . That's the way I'm going to . I'm going to go right now . That's to me better than the dog .
That's like actually I got an idea , which is a lot of dogs , that does happen . Yeah , so you have a dog that you've kind of let a little loose by the water . You've given them a little leeway , you've made it fun for them and their excitement starts to increase . Leeway you've made it fun for them and their excitement starts to increase .
How do you transition to having that dog out with multiple dogs ? And here's why I'm asking this is the thing that I think blows more people's minds than anything else that we do here at Southern Oak Kennels is we almost never have one dog out unless you're working a young dog on like pile work or stuff .
But if you're running a set of pattern blinds or a set of marks or a setup with marks and blinds , you've usually got anywhere from two to four , maybe five dogs out , typically on a MoMar stand . What's that transition like to you ? Because for some reason that tends to blow folks' minds that they sit there . They're quiet .
Every once in a while my daughter's out here with a stick . Miriam , my youngest , has just turned nine a month and a half ago and she comes out as Wally's assistant . A good bit If we can't find her , we know she's just out helping train dogs but she stands there with like a school teacher trying to keep it .
But even without Miriam there to help , they sit pretty still .
¶ Developing Dog Steadiness in Group Training
How do you develop ?
that it is like you said , with Miriam being out there . If you do have somebody else out there to help and kind of keep an eye on them , I usually like to start them and usually I won't do this until I know the dog has been steadied up and it can be reliably steady when you're running it by itself , but I like to have somebody out there with me .
If I don't have anybody out there with me , I will put them on a slip lead and possibly tie them to the MoMarsh , but I'm going to stay close by and then if they jump off , then I can catch them real quick and then just put them back on there and have them place .
Now , when I do this , when I'm first introducing a dog to being out there with other dogs , I have more experienced dogs out there . Yeah , I'm not going to have intermediate dogs and a newbie , so I really try to make it easier on myself personally . Yeah , I have dogs that were 100 great with this and then I can have a newbie one .
It helps the newbie because everybody else is staying steady right . If you have two or three out there , yeah , it turns into a rodeo . It can get pretty hectic . I've experienced you can lose mole marshes in the water pretty quick . Yeah , so , but yeah , that's the way I like to start .
It is and it can be started as simple as just doing hand tossed retreat excuse me , hand tossed retreats for the more experienced dogs and making sure the young one stays on the stand .
Yeah .
I like to start it off that way with the dogs , but I will tie them up . A lot of them don't have to be . It may be just a slick lead wrapped around them and not tied to the stand , so they know it's there . Yes , yeah , but for me also it's not a huge punishment if they jump off .
It's going to be like , hey , let's get back up here and stay on the stand .
I've noticed that it's never , especially in that early bit . It's never a freak out , it's just no , no , look up here . How do you think that training in that way impacts ?
um just , their overall steadiness and demeanor . I think it has a huge impact on it . There's let's put it this way , when we run test , I always get to a test and maybe the dog's first finished test , and I'm like man .
I never even put this dog on a honor bucket , but they been sitting out for months watching other dogs work and I never usually have a problem with it . They're so used to it , they're so used to watching another dog run . Um , but other than that , to me it's important for another dog to sit out there and watch other dogs work .
I know when I hunt , we hunt multiple dogs . I know a lot of people that hunt multiple dogs Almost every hunt that I went on this season . So the dog has to be comfortable watching another dog retrieve . Yeah , and also for a lot of these dogs it's a workout in itself to sit there and watch for the dogs run it .
People don't realize how much that can wear a dog out .
Yeah , just mentally especially and it turns a , I mean your land setup might be a five minute session for the dog , but if you're running five , six dogs , that turns into a half hour to 40 minute session for them , sitting out there honoring and watching as well , which is cool because let's say you're running a land or a water setup and you've got four dogs
out , okay , so , like today's setup , you had three marks and two blinds .
It's a total of five retrieves all in . I bet it took your dogs what ? Eight , nine minutes each to run that . Yeah , less than 10 minutes . But you have four . So they're out for 40 minutes and they ran five retrieves and they watched another 15 . Yes , so they watched 15 . Other retrieves happen . They're always processing it .
You can tell , or they're you could . They're looking . Some of them are looking at me like you think I could get down and eat some of this grass right here . Can I come ? Let you love on me , you know , but they're , they're there and they learn that .
And man I , I encourage people , even last weekend at the member weekend , just to try your best , cause you have some people that show up at like a member weekend , or like Marty here today . He had a bear and Coda and they sat there . You know they sit behind but it's a little more difficult for them .
But he trains by himself a lot with just those two and when you add more dogs into the mix , you know that's a big .
That's a big shake up for a dog mentally if they haven't done it and uh if you have the opportunity to get into some group training , that is , I would say , the the best thing for the dogs that's what I tell people is .
You can find you know Facebook , I mean , look especially in either the CGA member group or the SOK Society hey , man who lives within an hour of St Louis or Wichita or wherever you might be , and you can find someone to go .
And even if your dog is not at the level of running whatever setup they're running , do some easy hand , throw marks for the dog and put them on a stand and let them honor other dogs .
Because I don't know about you , but in my experience you can really tell when you go on a hunt which dogs have learned how to do that and which dogs lose their mind because another dog is there .
Well , we see it quite a bit . I mean , you have quite a few people over here once in a while . I know back home in Michigan we have people that come out and it does baffle them sometimes how we can have so many dogs sit out there and watch other dogs run and not have a single problem .
Yeah , was it last year that Adam came and trained with us ? That was the Adam Campbell Two years ago . When I say that , that's it two years ago adam came to train with us . Um , it was great , but , like his number , one thing he wanted to see was do all these dogs really sit there ? You know , how do they really sit ?
Still , while we , uh , while you guys , run these setups and and I do understand , for some people there's a thought of , um , I don't want my dog to see the marks before they run the marks . I don't necessarily feel that way . I'm also not running a bunch of hunt tests . Um , the blinds I know don't matter . I I mean , look you .
I think there's a misconception . I've heard people say like , is that dog learning from what the other one did ? And I'm like , no , that I can run 20 dogs on a blind and 19 of them could watch me run the first one and when I get to dog 20 , other than maybe being some drag back scent , they're never going to be like .
Well , I saw where the other ones went , I know where I'm going . They just they don't think that way , they don't process I've had a few that you think might like .
Ashley yeah , sometimes she would watch so intently and she'd come up there and just line the blind .
But she was just a special dog yeah , just a really good line . And dog too , yeah . On the marks , maybe . Maybe they figure out they're also at a different vantage point . You know they're not right .
The biggest thing is it's not advantageous because they're like you said , they're watching the mark from a different angle .
Yeah , so in the end , the thought process I think for the most part is is it's not doing the dog any favors by having it out watching the other marks because it could cause them to make a wrong decision or see the mark from a different point . I still don't think it really matters that much .
Personally now I will say that if you do run a lot of hunt tests , something I'll do once in a while is I still may have my three or four mole marshes out there , but I can get dog hides , yeah yeah , and set them up all that and especially I recommend that for people that have a dog that is used to sitting out , but then you may go to a hunt test
and they're a little bit wild behind a hide , I will set hides up and make the dog sit back there behind the hides .
Yeah , yeah . That's a yeah , that's a great idea , Cause I do think I have seen dogs myself included , uh , dogs that I've run . I mean , I've seen dogs where they were really good at sitting out and very steady and quiet long as they could see what was going on .
And you take that vision away and they're like wait a second , they're peeking around the corners or trying to creep and see what's going on . Yeah , and I've also seen back to the steadiness thing . I do think that the benefits far outweigh the any negatives when it comes to just having them out .
Um , but I've seen some dogs who , when I think hunting dogs together and having a very steady , quiet , calm dog and taking a hunting with a dog who's not steady , not quiet , not calm , does more damage for the steady dog Because somehow I've seen them . Those are behaviors I think that they can pick up .
I've had dogs that I never would have assumed would break and on a hunt with a dog that was breaking and after the third or fourth time my dog broke and it was almost like they're like well , if that one gets to go , I'm going , which you wouldn't think they would process that way , but they just like a fight for who's going to get there first , and it
definitely depends on where they're set up as well too .
So if that breaking dog is running across in front of , eventually , that other dog might . It doesn't happen with all dogs , but it's definitely . I've seen it . Yeah , the dog that I've had , that is 100 , steady , and all of a sudden it's like where'd you go ? Yeah , yeah , what do they say ? They always say you never .
Say my dog has never been , oh it happens .
I , I , uh , when we were filming , say , when I was at Hooray ranch on the last day of the season and I had read and I had literally told um , the former owner of Hooray , I was like , yeah , this dog is , he's got a lot of drive , he's never going to break .
And we were just sitting on the edge of a big , big pond shooting little geese and a pair of honkers came in , and just two of them , and we were shooting into groups of 100 little geese . Two honkers came in and we just like two or three shots , knocked them down . I looked over to send them .
He's gone and I'm like how is it that all the birds and we had shot hundreds of birds that year over him that was the year he picked up I four bands , you know it was a great season but those two birds , two honkers , that just he couldn't take it and they did have a long approach .
You know I couldn't figure out what it was , but I was , I ate my humble pie that day . I was like , yep , of course they were .
all you know , this dog will never break and I was like , dang , that's what I get for saying it . You never brag on your dog , right ? You never brag on your dog . They'll make a liar out of you . Yeah , what was it , hank ?
When he was young , I think one of the times I came over and trained with you guys years ago , don and I came down and he'd never seen a hand launcher . Oh yeah , and you guys started firing a hand launcher and this dog has been steady for months and he's sitting next to me . Somebody fires a hand launcher he goes hand .
Well , you train with a lot of Thunder launchers . This year in particular , I think , they've been out almost every day . I don't know how much gas map gas you've been through Between the Thunder launchers and the one we use to light the fire pit , so those can be tough for dogs , those plastic dummies .
Um , my buddy that I hope to have on here , uh , at some point soon . Um , mark Turner , I don't know if you remember Mark . He trained with me for years and years . Uh , he trained before I did and , uh , he knows Keith and Josh . Well , he was part of the group that really we all started kind of running dogs together and I don't know 2013 , 14 .
Anyway , he had a very nice imported uh dog that was a field trial winner that he brought to my house one day and I'd just gotten my first the , the thunder tens , you know , shot a pretty simple mark and his dog went over and got in the cover and put his nose on it and kept on hunting and , uh , he was so mad .
Just I was like dude , the dog probably not gonna go pick up a piece of plastic , pvc and all that stuff has to be taught you know , it's not not easy and that's .
that's part of the for me . Anyway , when I go through and start teaching the fetch command , when I'm doing the treat training and we go through fetch , I like to use multiple different objects , anything that you could probably use for dog training . It may be a thunder bumper , it may be a hand launcher bumper , canvas , plastic .
I like to run through all of them . Dokens .
Yeah , well , you've seen it with mine out here with some of the imports . Twig didn't want to pick up the plastic , oh yeah , went right past the pile and looked at it like Nope , that's not it , you know , and yeah , it's good to do that . Um , let's talk a little bit about that .
I know we're coming close on time , but your , uh , your process is it's a very similar process to mine and ours on like a a fetch hold release process . There's not a ton of force involved . You , you're very , very positive with your fetch and hold command .
Um , I've seen you help Stone again early on in his first days of training with um , oh , scott's dog . I can't remember the name of that dog Um , magis pup , I'll think of it . A second Scott will kill me for forgetting her name . Um , sage , sage , yeah , so say Sage .
Repeat it Uh , but that dog didn't want to , didn't want to hold it right , and the process was not at all more pressure , that was excitement
¶ Canine Retrieval Training Methods
. So just what are you trying to put into a dog's head ? When it comes to reinforcing ? For those listening out here , maybe you have a dog that you're just struggling to get to hold a dummy and bring it to you .
Um , instead of going toward more pressure angry I'm mad at you , fetch it up you go the opposite going toward more pressure , angry I'm mad at you , fetch it up . You go the opposite way . Why is that , and what are you hoping the dog learns ?
Well , I want to . At the end of the day , the goal is it's a retriever that you want them to want to retrieve , so adding pressure to it isn't the right start , in my opinion . I want it to be positive . Everything's going to be positive from the start . I do use the food .
I , like you said , I think I do use a very similar process to what you guys use , although I probably speed it up a little bit , cause I do use a physical touch on their muzzle or rolling their lips up or just getting my finger between their teeth Right , and then , once I get them in there , first it's going to be fetch , fetch , fetch , and then , every
time they do , it's going to be reward and then , once you start the hold , a lot of times the fetch will go away . This is this is a very a process to where you have to really pay attention to what the dog's doing and why they're doing it . If If they're fetching it on their own and then dropping it , I'm fine with that .
Once I feel like that , every time I say fetch and they grab it , we're ready to start having them hang on to it for a minute . When I start making them hang on to it . And now , when I say making them hang on to it , I made hand on top of the muscle and hand under the chin and then just kind of roll my hands with them .
They might shake their head a little bit . I'm not talking about a bunch of pressure , but I'm going to make them hang on to it for a second or two and then come out and what you're going to notice , usually what happens is they will stop fetching .
So now at this point is usually when I'll have to start squeezing my finger in there between the teeth and getting them . And now we're going to carry over the hold . But all this they're getting reward every time they do it and then , once they get more comfortable with the hold , the fetch command comes back .
That's the normal process that I see happening with it .
I think that's where a lot of people struggle yes , when they start the hold and the fetch goes away , yes , and then I , kind of my dog , won't even pick it up anymore .
Yes , and that's the thing is . You have to be I've done this a thousand times you have to be comfortable with that position that you're in right now . It will come back . Once they get better about the hold , the fetch will come back . Now , for me it's to get them to fetch again .
Like I said , it is probably a finger between the teeth because they don't want to bite you , so they're going to open their mouth . I'm not saying we're going to add a bunch of pressure , but for me it's noticing the little signs of learning .
It may go from having to stick your finger in there to just putting your hand on top of their muzzle and then they grab it , or maybe just having to roll the lips up a little bit and then they grab it All those little subtle signs that you see . I try to put less touch on the dog each and every time and it will tell you whether the dog's learning .
Me and cory wages walk through this a little bit and it's . It's a very good process and I I feel like it would probably it might do wonders if I I try to produce a video of it .
Yeah , it's so difficult because it's over days and days that it takes to do this about this is we have our , our whole conditioning , and then josh has a fetch hold release and it's just um , it's so much work , it's a it's a lengthy process , it's very detailed and every dog's different .
Yes , it might . It may take three days for some and it could take three weeks for others .
Yeah , that's important to know because I have people who will say I'm on day 12 and we're just not getting it and I'm like all right , stay the course . And then some people say , dude , it was like I didn't even have to do anything . You know , this dog just caught on real fast .
And some of that , I think , does have to do with more of a natural delivery where you don't have to get super , super into it , but it is still important to teach them the command . Yes , and the thing for me also that I'd like to do is like a stepping stone for the dogs when we're going through this process .
Again , for me it's all treat oriented , it's all positive . Even though the dog may have kind of a negative demeanor towards it for a little bit , you can't get too worried about it because we're being positive , we're giving them a reward with it .
There's another stepping stone would be is like hey , when we're doing the whole process , I may reach in and grab some kibble . And usually as soon as you grab kibble , what are they going to do ? They're going to spit it out and it's all just building blocks or stepping stones and knowing what's going to make the dog drop the bumper .
But the end goal is to keep it all very positive . By the time we're done with this , I usually have dogs that will be doing walking fetch . I'll hold the bumper above them . They'll stand on their hind legs to go up and grab the bumper . We're going to do is set the bumper on the ground and the thing that baffles you the most .
You can put a bumper on the ground they know what fetch means and they won't fetch it until you put one finger on it . Yeah , you put one finger on that bumper , they'll pick it up , yeah , but if you're not touching it , they're like I don't know what to do .
Yeah , isn't that funny so , yeah , the end goal is just having that positive , yeah , all reward based on a lot of excitement going .
I've noticed that and I've seen you last year .
You have more of these but , like even over in my shop , you're you know , if you're trying to imagine you've got a dummy in your hand , a young dog , and in your other hand you have their food bowl and you're balancing this , fetch it up , hold it All right , give it back , walk around with me , be excited and then giving them kibble in the process .
And a lot of people I think don't that's the way we teach it . And a lot of people , I think don't believe it's possible that they will say you have to get rid of the treats in order to get a good hold . And I don't think that's true at all . I think that when you can teach the dog , hey , if you hold it well , you'll get this .
I personally feel the treats make the whole reinforce the hold more because they want to spit that bumper out for that food so in my opinion , when I got a handful of kibble , I'm holding it right in front of your nose and you're hanging on to a bumper now you're really learning .
You're really learning like delayed gratification , yeah , like all right , I gotta do this . Yeah , that's a great point . That's a great point , that's fun . I think all that stuff is .
Uh , it's important because you're not just , you know , as a dog trainer , and this goes for if you're out there and you're a pro , and you're out there and you're training your first or second dog for fun , you're not just teaching a set of skills .
I mean you're developing attitude , you're developing the dog's relationship with you , and that's a hard part for what you do . I mean you've have , you have what you have your boys here . You have 20 or 21 dogs here . We won't include Storm .
Yeah , with Aaron bringing Arthur every once in a while . Yeah , it bounced between 20 and 22 dogs Probably .
That's a lot of dogs , uh , you got to . You have to focus on each one , on the relationship with those dogs , and I will say I mean this has been the most fun year for me having here , mostly because you had your own place to stay . I don't want you in in my house , but it's nice .
You know , I'm like all right , it's not everything's actually put together and , knock on wood , no tornadoes and everything was done . But when you watch these dogs , uh , out here , they're excited to be around you . You know like they're . When you air them all , one of the problems is getting them to just leave you alone .
You know , because they're jumping everywhere , jumping everywhere , and that's to me that's a great testament . And you know , there might be days that are tough for some of them . There's days where it's like , oh , that was a battle .
You know , I had to fight that battle with the dog today , but the relationship always comes first with them and you notice that when you see these dogs and it's cool to see , it's funny to see the setups like today compared to the setups like February 16th .
For those of you who don't know Wally , for those of you who do , you'll quickly agree , you'll be nodding your head . Yes , but you're never the most positive guy on how a dog's going to be at the beginning . Usually I'm like how's that ? And you're like , oh , I don't know .
It's going to be okay , and then five months in it's like one of the nicest dogs you've ever seen and he's like , yeah , it turned out pretty good , you know , and turned out okay , but gotta be a little pessimistic with them , yeah , yeah , and Wally's not going to say the dog's going to be okay until they're what most people will consider dog of a lifetime
status , you know . So what's it look like now for you as we wrap up You're about to Don has already come down and gotten nine of the dogs . Yes , so you've got the trailer , the bed slide , the gunner . You're gonna load up , uh , the rest of them at some point hopefully hoping to be heading out wednesday morning .
So we'll see . It's the buttoning up that . This is always the part of trying to make sure everybody got to see their dog . Everybody's got the dog to me that needs to go back to Michigan with me , yeah . So yes , I got one that I got to pick up yet tonight .
Yeah .
But yeah , so going forward , it's get back home . Honestly , my dogs will probably get a couple of days off They've already dry out a little bit and then maybe myself a day or two off . 'll see , so you learn that too , I don't think .
I don't think you've taken a whole day off since you've been here uh well , when you're the only one taking care of the dogs , you yeah , there's never really a day off , but yeah , so and get back at it . I mean , we got a lot of fun things going on back home and a lot of things to get buttoned up and get like .
We have hunt tests coming up right here in may , so that's a cool advantage for you geographically speaking .
You guys's hunt tests are going to start before ours , because I say that we start in may too , but you guys will have some early ones because you know it's not , you know it's just getting nice out there . Uh , where are ? And ? And a lot of the guys I've talked to will not run those earliest tests because they're not , they haven't been in the water yet .
Yes , and you've been down here in the water , so it's . It shows , when you go to those early hunt tests , the dogs have been in the water and which ones haven't had a chance , cause they're different this year , but in normal years a lot of guys up there have only had their dog in the water maybe a handful of times , if they're lucky .
Yeah , well , I'm excited . I'll always miss you . I always post my Pablo Escobar meme because it's lonely when you leave , but it's been an awesome year . Thanks for hopping on the podcast talk training and for those of you that want to follow along with Wally's dogs , they'll be training all summer . He's actually gotten really good at making Instagram reels .
You can find Wally Shalau on Instagram or SOK Great Lakes on Instagram and follow along with those dogs . They get to train , honestly , a lot more in the summer because it's not nearly as hot up there where you guys are . So , yeah , it's a it's a win-win for you . So safe travels back .
Thanks for hopping on and I appreciate all you guys joining in and listening to us .