Luke Moore - Gunner, Waterfowl, Pro Trainers, Do Dogs Have an "Off Switch"?

Luke is the marketing guy and wears a lot of cool hats over at Gunner and he made a post in the middle of the season regarding a certain aspect of Labradors and I found the post a little bit disagreeable and I've commented and said hey , let's discuss this . On the lab , he and I are good buddies .

We've hunted together , we've traveled in a few places together , so he was high on that idea and said let's do it after the season . So my first podcast back with Luke . It was a really fun one . Super excited for you guys to hear this conversation .

I think there are a lot of little gems in there for guys who are on their first or second dog and trying to decide pro trainer , not pro trainer . You're going to use Cornerstone with it . We hope you do . It's a fun conversation . I hope you guys enjoy it and look forward to getting back with you with another one following this one really soon .

Welcome to the Lab , a Cornerstone Gundog Academy podcast focused on all things gundogs , good times and the great outdoors . I'm your host , barton Ramsey . All right , everyone , welcome back to the lab . Thanks for bearing with us over the long break that we call duck season . I have Luke Moore with us here from Gunner Kennel .

Luke , I'm super excited to have you with us I am stoked to be here .

Oh , it's a super cool store . I'll think of it in a minute , but anyway , we did a little expo there and the guy was like Southern Oak Kennels was a year and a half two years old maybe . And the guy was like I'm going to put you next to Gunner Kennels . And I remember thinking why would you put the two dog guys next to each other ?

Like I do not want to be next to another , you're gonna put and I show up . And it was just addison frantically trying to put together a couple intermediates . I was like you need some help , man . I was like these things are awesome . And he was like I'll send you one . What's your address ? And I think the kennels almost beat me to my house .

But I do want to get into your story a little bit . Um so just for those that don't know you at all listening here um , how'd you get to gunner kennel ?

Give us like a synopsis of your journey into gun dogs and then the outdoor space and into your role at gunner kennel , or gunner , yeah so , um , starting at the beginning , I man , I've been hunting since I could remember , uh , thanks to my dad .

I literally my dad will tell people like Luke was the dog at that time we didn't have a dog when I was that age , like I just I enjoyed going out to get the ducks so much I enjoyed like my dad taught me at such a young age , like picking out certain birds , learning the species and just respecting everything the people you're around the ducks and whatever

you're hunting , respecting everything about it . So I'm super thankful he instilled that in me because that's just what the foundation of my hunting career per se was built on . So it's been awesome , but fast forwarding into where I'm at now .

So I I guess I was around nine or 10 when I started hunting around our first duck dog per se and I just fell in love with it . I mean , everything I loved about hunting was just packed jam , packed into a dog .

I was like I want that and uh , that's when , around that same time as when my dad , uh , for Christmas , I got my first black lab goose , uh , who's still with me , fully retired , but um , that's when the the true love kind of connected . And you know , if I didn't have goose I don't know if I'd be .

I know I wouldn't be where I'm at today with Gunner . Um , I just I fell in love with all things dogs . That's what I love about hunting . At this point I I just that's my priority .

Um , so I started with Gunner right out of college and I've been here ever since and , uh , it's truly because , like I wouldn't have even known what Gunner is without , you know , without a dog , or at least know it enough to be like that's where I want to be .

So , to make a long story short , it's just a blessing , you know , a passion that my family , my dad , instilled in me kind of continued into where I'm at today , um , with dogs in general . So it's just , it's a cool story , not to get all all emotional and sobby , but I'm super thankful for it . But yeah , I've been with gunner for around four years now .

I'm on the marketing team currently . I just absolutely love it . It's the best thing in the world . I mean I get to bring my dog with me every day to work and I mean I could stop there , because who wouldn't love ?

I mean , to this day I I still make it a point to hunt with that same crew . It's a few of my cousins my uncle , my brother-in-law now and obviously my dad . I mean opening weekend . Um has even become a tradition in in my initial household , my wife and my daughter .

Um , our anniversary is right around middle , uh , middle Missouri opener , and every year we will take that weekend and just spend it there with the rest of my family and for our duck opener . So it's just that's where it all started and kind of continues . Uh , any chance I get extra time outside of , outside of gunner .

I feel like it's uh , it's not one of those areas that people put as the hot , hot spot of duck hunting , but there's a lot of ducks and geese over there and , if you get the right spots , there's a lot of waterfowl culture in that zone over there for sure .

I actually got to lure at a young age and especially with my first dog , just like running him in new scenarios . And I'm super thankful for that too , because with my pup Dex , that was a huge goal of mine in his first season was just building out . Ok , I want to . You know I don't really care about crazy numbers .

Obviously I want to get his , his numbers up if I can , but I more so wanted him to experience as many scenarios and environments as he could , especially with him traveling with me for work , like if I , if we go to Washington , louisiana , Canada , anywhere we go .

I want him to be confident in me , be confident in him , and I'm really thankful that that was instilled in me with my first dog , cause I mean it's it's feels so good to go and go in blind and not worry about your dog , especially if you're the only one , and I'm sure you've been in way more scenarios than I have around that , but with people you don't

know , environments you don't know , it's like the last thing you want to worry about is your dog kind of messing up . So it was .

And if you've ever been shooting in the uk you know it's a lot different than hunting ducks in the timber , hunting ducks in a flooded rice field . There's nothing

like that over there . I don't see decoys . I don't even ride their dogs on a side by side . So this this year I spent a lot of time like okay , guys , this is his first time in a Can-Am . If he freaks out , don't worry about it , we'll be all right . That is as always . I hope this dog is well-rounded by the end of the season . It was great .

We were doing all the normal stuff , all the normal stuff . But uh and you've you've probably also been around dogs well , like uh , I've got them on the short list for future podcasts but like connor and lincoln , where the dog , like his whole life , is just picking up ducks in the timber .

And I remember we took him on a teal hunt and he did great , but the first few times you could tell he was like what are we doing ? like yeah , I can only imagine yeah , we're this is not the woods and and it is cool having a dog especially people in your position where you know part of your job is being out there .

You know , helping Gunner achieve the brand status and brand recognition that it deserves and having a dog that is not going to embarrass you is like a super big part of that . You know , yeah , they come in here and .

You know a lot of guys nothing wrong with this , by any means but a lot of guys will talk and say , oh , my dog has a thousand retrieves a season . Oh , my dog has 500 . And they may be hunting out of one spot , you know , and there's again , nothing wrong with that .

But I think it's also just as impressive , and sometimes even more impressive , when you find a dog that you know , let's say , they have a couple hundred retrieves but they hunted in 30 different spots across the country . Like that's super impressive and much harder to do .

So I'm sure that's the same with you . I mean , sometimes it's just my dog , but most of the time for me , most of the time , even if it's just me , I take two Only because I have so many with me . Yeah , you might as well , I would .

I would far rather two of them pick up 25 ducks on a slow day in a field than one of them pick up this , because those retrieves are almost all the same . So for me it's the a couple of nice blind retrieves . That's cool and then honoring you know where you study with another dog , so that part's important .

But yeah , the idea of a well-rounded retriever that can kind of do anything , you know that's a pretty cool goal to set for those . I know that a lot of cornerstone guys listening out there what luke's talking about is great , because you may say hey , I live in uh , maryland and I hunt out of a boat on divers , and that's a very different thing .

My dogs would struggle with that , you know I would . It would be a big adjustment and so you may only ever train your dog to do that . But what happens when you get invited on an awesome hunt in Kansas and you got to hunt a dry field , you know , is your dog going to sit steady on a field blind ?

It's cool and what you said early on like the dog bug gets you and it's like for me it's frigid , cold here right now . Like we've been awful and I trained dogs in the snow the other day , but I'm just sitting in here like when can I get back out and work my dogs ? Because I don't want to do it right now . It's just too cold to enjoy being outside .

But it's something that you can push and continue your time outdoors . You're not duck hunting , but it's related . You're still pursuing that passion and for those of you who get bored with it , that's a good word , man . It's like , hey , I'm bored with it . My dog only ever hunts out of a pit blind .

Well'll try something new and see if you can book a trip or figure out a friend to take you on a conservation snow goose hunt or something like that . You know it's . There's a lot of different ways to push your dog to the next level it's a good word .

We will have retrieves off of that boat and you know we don't hunt out of a boat much . But that's exactly why I wanted to do it . It's because , if that's the part where I think I , along with he , will struggle the most , um , we're going to run in a dry field or run in the timber a lot and I think he's gonna get plenty of experience .

But the one time we run out of a , a boat with a lot of current and it's super cold , like I don't want to have to stress about that . So I'm gonna find myself running him out of a boat more than I probably should . Or I might not even hunt him about next season , and I'm just using that as an example , but I don't know .

I I just I geek out about all the scenarios that he can run and I'm so proud of it . A really simple example we hunted a real foot at the end of this past season and obviously big blinds , you know you can't wait .

You got to go get in the boat to go get the dog or go get the duck , whatever you may have to do , and this was his first full season and the my least favorite place to run a dog is out of a blind , where you can't wait .

Cause to me , with a young dog , if they get in trouble or in a scenario where they get nervous or lose confidence , it's like that's a whole process . You have to get out and go get to them . Um , so those are the two things I'm .

I'm like wanting to work on this off season in a boat and like in a stream or river , whatever you want to call it , um , and trying to go find , like a public blind I can run him out of . That's like not an ideal situation , because everything else I think we can get to pretty easily .

One of my least favorite uh handling moments of the whole year was with you on paloma blanco when I had to stand up on top of that can-am because my dog couldn't see me and I learned something really new that day and I'm sure that this is similar when you're hunting those big blinds .

For those of you who don't know , real Foot Lake in western Tennessee is like a lot of you probably heard about it . It's a world famous duck hunting spot . A lot of culture , a lot of culture there . But they hunt out of these huge , huge blinds that you bring a boat and park a boat underneath , and there's usually a dog .

I don't know if you had a boat and park a boat underneath and there's usually a dog mount , if you had a ramp , um , but the dogs will run like almost under the blind sometimes , uh , and it's , it's difficult because if your dog's out there , they have to look up to see you , and if you have not trained for that scenario , we were in south texas , on the

mexico border , running through a little creek and this dove kept falling way behind us and I would consider it to be very thick grass . Oh , you can't see through it and we're sitting there and I could not . I would stop . I think it was Rio . I would stop Rio and I know he was stopped , but I couldn't see him at all .

So I climbed up on top of of a maybe I don't know know whose can-am that was . Yeah , climbed up on top of old Bart's can-am . I'm way up in the air . I can clearly see the dog . I'm blowing the whistle and he is staring right where Luke is standing .

He's staring at the ground because all he knows is that the person handling me is standing on the ground and I was like hey , up here , which he doesn't speak English , I'm waving my hands and the dog is just looking right below me at the ground and I was so frustrated I was like God , this is miserable . I'm not crossing this creek .

I would really like to find these dove and I just got to send him back and hope that he smells it . And then their mouth breathing . At that point . But yeah , it's so weird because you think how hard could that be ? Well , they at that point . But yeah , it's so weird because you think how hard could that be ?

Well , they've never experienced looking up and being handled by somebody that's not at eye level . So , right , totally different . I don't know , I'm gonna practice that one .

It was probably a 10 to 15 super steep drop off into a creek , back into another steep drop off for him to climb up , with trees to get through and then a probably three to four foot tall grass that you can barely see through .

So it was a super unique scenario where I don't know you could replicate it , but it was cool to like try and see you work through it . I'm sure you don't really hear about that side , but trying to , I could see your mind working and like trying to figure out what the dog was seeing too , and I think that's what people don't look at a lot is .

They'll just think through what they see . It's like okay , what , what do you think the dog sees right now ? And you were doing that .

It's like he doesn't see me , it's like , so seeing you work through that situation with the dog that is also trying to do the same thing was cool and like that's one of my favorite things and and this year a lot like I I barely shot at all this season because I just was enjoying running him um , and we we ran multiple dogs almost every hunt we went on ,

which again I loved , because what you mentioned earlier the honoring I'm huge on . But it's just so cool to while we're taking a step back to see them the dog working and the the handler working and just trying to figure it all out in those situations was I'd never done that before , um , and it was , it was fun .

incredibly honest dog . So Corey took him through his , his HRCH , and I think he's got he's got a handful of master passes . Before Corey had some stuff come up and hadn't been able to run him , but he just doesn't . He does not want to take a wrong step . In fact , you can see it in his demeanor .

When you even issue a verbal correction , he's like oh man , like I didn't , I didn't mean to do that , and so those situations are frustrating , because I know all he wants to do is what I ask him to do , but I'm not able to communicate that to him , so he is just guessing .

He's like I'll go this way , I'll go , and he gets so worked up like I gotta find it , I can't come back without it .

But the opposite side , if you can imagine , luke and I are standing there with old bart and aaron davis and and Wade Shoemaker and a handful of amazing humans , and we're shooting these dove that are flying across in front of us in a standing sunflower field .

I actually have some pictures queued up to post from this hunt of of you and our setup there , and behind us is this tall bank Creek with insane cover and it was pretty steep . I remember the dogs having to kind of claw their way up to back up the other side .

Well , those sunflowers are very difficult too and those are situations where and I hope this helps some people listening you've got several of your friends watching , right , and you're one of the few people who have dogs present , all right . Well , that's already added pressure that you feel .

I feel this all duck season , especially when you're the dog guy , whether you're a breeder or you work at Gunner . If you work at Gunner , you're a dog guy , right , you should have a great dog . That's just an expectation that people don't even say , but they have it . Well , you have friends watching you .

You feel that pressure and I promise you , if you're listening to this , if you feel pressure , your dog feels that you feel pressure . That's just how it works .

And you're in a scenario with standing sunflowers where you're shooting little brown birds onto little brown dirt and there's very little scent conditions because it's hot as blue blazes out there and there is no way to judge depth of field period . It's literally just as far as you can go . It's just rows of sunflowers .

And I remember my first year there three seasons ago , I was so frustrated because a couple of my dogs , who were really , really strong marking dogs , were just blowing past birds and I was like what is happening ? That's a great marking dog .

Well , yeah , when I'm marking in a contoured field with three trees and a gunner and there's a holding blind , they know how to pick an area and hunt the area , and some of them are pretty pinpoint markers but that particular style , and so sometimes we have to step back and say , hey , look , it's not the dog there's . This is a whole new scenario here .

We haven't really worked through this and and I need to have some patience because I feel the pressure from everybody watching these dogs not just go out and back . You know well , yeah , pb is so much fun , but not necessarily for the dog work .

I mean you go from , like you said , grassy in the back , a Creek , sunflowers in the front , which if no one has ever hunted in sunflowers , like I would argue it's one of the harder , especially with doves , like obviously with doves , but it is one of the harder , like whether you have a dog or not , to see anything .

You think , oh , it's kind of wide open . No , it is way worse than corn standing grass , like it's one of the harder markings I've ever been around , so to see especially multiple dogs working , for that was it's something I had never seen before .

But I don't know anyone that you're more , far more , like me . I may be shot I don't want to get into numbers for legality purposes here but I don't shoot a ton . I'm far more into running the dog , right , yep . So Addison is the opposite . That dude likes to kill stuff .

Yeah , you know he's , he's on the way , gun shells , and if you're hunting out of a blind or if you're hunting a timber spot and he goes to find a bird and another bird flies over low , he's shooting it . He's not waiting on to work the hole , he's just gonna shoot it , he's shooting .

Um , yeah , so I have a lot of stories that I some I can and some I can't tell .

But that first year all the dove were congregating in the middle of the sunflower field and we had all killed like maybe three , and addison was like , well , I'll be right back , and he walked in his shorts , his jean shorts and his boots , and he came back and he had , he had his 15 dove crammed in every pocket of hit him in his jean was jean short pockets

, his back pockets , his shell holder , and , uh , he didn't take a . Oh , he took Chevy . And Chevy was a puppy , I mean like 10 months old , and was as tired as I've ever seen a dog in my life . He was like I think I may have worked him too hard and he was just walking around shooting doves in the middle of this field , just him .

I actually went to the bank of the river and shot a dove coming over us straight front to back . That fell over on the other side of the river and Aaron recorded it . I told you about that .

Uh , as you said , marketing director , I believe , um , what's what's your role there and what's that like working there ? I know you guys have dogs , but I've been to the office . A lot of people haven't to experience kind of that culture . So if you wouldn't mind elaborating a little bit more on that , Absolutely , it's so cool .

I mean Dex is right here beside me , which is every day , and that's kind of like the premises . I mean , if you think of an office that lets you and wants you to bring your dog whenever you can , that flows through everything else . So we have , I mean we have a party like every other week we have a yearly crawfish boil and it's so cool .

And everyone , like , once you get into a company , that's that's a certain size , you'll see that departments won't really know each other like outside of their own department and it's kind of the exact opposite here and I hope that never changes .

I mean I work with , I mean the development team , colton Addison , our CX team , ops , even the warehouse , like we all make it a point to connect with each other , whether it's work or not . So it's really cool and my personal kind of day-to-day this is uh crazy . From one day to the next . We all wear a lot of hats .

So anything from events , brand partnerships , corporate partnerships , content , um , just anything you could really think of on the brand marketing side , even social media kind of falls under my um realm . So it's uh , it's a lot going on each day and I wouldn't have it any other way . I hope that never changes on multiple aspects . It's an absolute blast .

It's been fun and and frustrating because , you know , being a guy that was around at the very beginning , when it was just really Addison , emily and Macy Uh , I mean there were other people but like they did everything and so if you needed something , you just fire a text to them and then as it grows , it's like , well , you need to text this guy , he's in

charge of that . I'm like what do you mean ? He's in charge of that . You're in charge of that . You know you got me and uh , I of that . You know you , yeah , you're the guy and uh , all I .

I should save a lot of these stories , but I came up there one time because there was a lot of um , damaged kennels that had been either returned or something , and addison was like they're , they're telling me I either have to throw them away or find somewhere for them to go . Do you want them ? And I was like , sure , and I may have told you this .

I came up there and I loaded up this janky trailer that a guy let me borrow , with a massive amount of of gunner , uh g1 larges and uh tops and bottoms . And then addison was like , you want some doors ? I was like well , you told me no doors , I'm just going to use them as dog houses .

He was like well , we have some doors that like didn't line up perfectly or whatever . And I appreciated that , because one thing that I was learning very quickly was , if it wasn't perfect , it wasn't being sold . So that part was awesome . And I was like , well , this is cool . And so , dude , I loaded up .

I don't even know , I hate , I'm not even going to say it on a podcast , but it was a lot . So , like a week later , addison was like hey , did you happen to like get a number on how many of those we sent ? And it was like he realized he can't just make those decisions anymore . And I was like I'll bring it all back .

He was like no , no , they're not going to fire me .

It's it's makes makes me super proud for for all you guys and for the brand that obviously we've partnered with for a long time . Super cool , yeah , in fact , I think we're good to hear .

I try my best to keep that feeling going because you know we're getting bigger , we're hiring more people and you know Addison , the bigger we get , he and I want him , everyone wants him to focus on product . That's what he enjoys , that's what he's amazing at .

So it's like for my position on the brand side of marketing , like I really want to keep it that same feel . You know all of these huge companies , not to name any names , but all these huge companies get to a point where they grow , grow , grow . They'll get to a point where , like I said before , the partners don't know each other .

And I think that that matters externally too , because as soon as that happens , all of the audience and all of the partnerships , like you , for example , will start to feel that and obviously you're , you're an outlier because you were here truly from the beginning .

But these newer guys , like they , don't experience that with other companies and I want I don't want that to be the case for us . So I don't know . That's a huge goal and I'm super glad to hear that you feel that way and I hope everyone , even externally , can feel the same way .

It's like we're here for all of our customers , Like that's what we want to be here for . We're not here to like grow as big as we can .

That's going to be going to happen Cause you know , like you said before , we perfect all of our products but , um , that's not really our goal and we just want to make it as cool as possible for everyone that's involved , whether you're a partner , whether you're a new customer , an old customer or working for gunner .

It's like we're going to try and keep that same crazy Addison persona front and center as much as we can as much as I can , at least .

I'd love to talk more about , um , your pup , dex , and , uh , I would . I don't know a whole lot about your dog . I've seen him , I've seen pictures and videos've tagged and posted about the guy you got him from and maybe a trainer , slash , mentor , friend of yours perhaps .

So I'd love to hear about that , that journey , uh , how you came about getting him , and then maybe even some of the stuff on your , your older retired dog as well .

We did a whole film on both my dogs and the true , detailed story of it all . But Dex came at a super important time in my life and at that point I was like I want to find a puppy . I want , I think I want the dog to come before , um , I retire my older dog goose .

And it just like I told myself , okay , I have to find the perfect litter , the perfect puppy , the perfect scenario for me to get a dog right now . It's like I don't even know if I would call it looking for a puppy .

Um , and fast forward a little bit , I did end up finding that litter and , uh , I wasn't really looking for an American , I wasn't looking for a British , I was just looking for a certain look , a certain demeanor , certain characteristics kind of combined into one , um , one thing I knew I wanted a little bit smaller um of a kennel cause I needed to be able to

go there and you know , work with the dog , work with whoever was training him , um , and all that worked out perfectly . You know he was he's like an hour away from Nashville , um , so I ended up finding the breeder and the trainer same person , jamie Moss . He's out of Kentucky .

He usually has anywhere from eight to 10 dogs at a time , so small kennel but he's great and he's an older guy but he's one of the . He's one of those guys like he's so knowledgeable and such a joy to talk to .

I mean , I introduced him to a buddy of mine who is kind of the new to the whole dog scene and then reach out to him like you just got to be careful , get him on the phone If you have like an hour . You know he's one of those guys he will talk through everywhere . Um , and it's funny , I was like man I'm .

I was trying to lay out what I wanted out of a dog , out of a puppy and especially being a gunner dog , and I told him I was like man , I don't like the guys that are just oh , I have to have American , I have to have the American way of training . I have

to

have

a

British

, I have to have a British way of training . Not that either one's wrong , but I've been around both sides that and I love aspects of of both sides as well . Um , chevy's an awesome example . He , you know everyone that says that like , oh , british dogs aren't hard charging . It's like , oh , this .

And that it's like , and you get around Chevy , it's like you will be flabbergasted , like I . There aren't many American dogs that run like Chevy that I've been around . Um and I've also been on the other end .

It's like , oh , american dogs are all hard charging , they don't have a you know , they can't calm down , and I've been around American dogs that won't go pick up a duck right in front of them . So I've seen all aspects , but I've seen also awesome aspects of the training that I want to combine in this dog . I want an all-around dog .

I wanted him to have everything . I needed him to go in every scenario , whether it was hunting and events and in the office . And we're about to have a baby which my daughter's eight months old now . He's going to be around her every day . So there's so much going into this dog that I wanted to build and I didn't really know how that worked At the time .

I thought I knew a lot but I didn't . So we just started building this dog and I took more time than I even thought was possible . And the only reason it was possible is because I could bring him to work every day .

So I could bring him in every chance I got in a meeting , every chance between meetings , my lunch break , like I would take him and work on anything I could . So that , combined with his training , just built and the most amazing dog I . I can't even explain how good he's become in the first two years .

I mean his his first season was this past season and I was like I was blown away . I got , I felt like I was hunting over a four or five year old lab . It was incredible . I mean even just the steadiness and his knowledge . I mean .

And if whoever's listening , like maybe in the same scenario with a young dog and like , let's say you're going on a three-day hunt , let's say you're in the timber which he hunted timber for the first time the first day , he did great . I was like man . There are a few things that like I really want to work on when we get back in the off season .

Like I don't really think I had time during the season and day two it's like I could see him putting it together , stuff that I was like I don't even know how he's doing it , but I could physically see him put it together and learn by himself and it was just the most rewarding thing ever .

Um , and I do believe that's a part of like the training and socialization , but I do believe that's also part of really good breeding , um , which is I I know and we want to get into a little bit Um , but it was just so cool to see all of that come together , naturally , and , at the same time , stuff that both me and my trainer put in as well and , uh

, just to build that all around dog , I mean , at two years old , I'm so , so excited and happy with where he's at right now . Um , but yeah , not to keep going into weeds of things , but that's , that's my I love that .

And I had a phone call today from a guy that was like , hey , I want a dog , I want one ready to hunt next year . And I was like I can't help you . And he was like , well , you , you know , you said you had some on the ground and I do . I have a couple of yellow males available that were born in middle of February , early February . I'm sorry .

I was like , yeah , they're not . I wouldn't consider them . He's like , well , they'll be almost a year old . I was like , no , I mean , but all right , so if it happens to be this like perfect dog that matures really quickly you know , yeah , in theory , at a 10 month old , you could take on an easy hunt , but that's not the goal .

So I'd love for you to just elaborate on your decision to not hunt him last year and and like how you feel about that now , taking a dog out at two and saying , well , it feels like I'm hunting with a four or five year old Cause . In my opinion , four or five , that's prime , that's that's like hey , we're firing on all cylinders .

So I know that's what you mean by that uh , which is awesome . And then maybe your thoughts on , like , if you had hunted him last year , do you think that would be the case ?

Like , experience is experience , and I thought that with my older lab and he turned out great , don't get me wrong , but I think it did and will create some bad habits that you can't correct because they don't know that they're bad habits , they haven't been taught that yet .

So it was , he hunted one time , the first season , and it was just so we could film the mantle . It'll go into that if you watch that . But , um , our goal was to build an all round dog , a very steady dog , and I didn't have to want to have to worry about him breaking or having to tie him off or nothing .

Anything like that is wrong if you , if you correct it , um , but I didn't want to create those bad habits if I didn't have to . So we took that season as as putting more time with him outside of the hunt , um , so it's not like we weren't running him , but we just weren't hunting with him .

Um , and let me tell you I I went from like , oh , start a dog as early as you can , to like I'll be honest , if he was matured enough to where I was , like he could , he could probably hunt . He was almost there . I was like , no , I don't think I'll ever do that with the dog moving forward .

Um , unless it's it's unique circumstances or it's like you have this hunt set up to be a training scenario , like you're not hunting with buddies , you're like you're you and your trainer . If you're the trainer , you're going with your dog and it is solely to teach him or correcting those habits .

But I'm so thankful that happened that way because going into this season I was still a little nervous . You know it's his first full season and just natural nerves and stuff like that . But every single hunt he impressed me so much . I mean we hunted with some older labs that you know they were great , um .

But people would ask me after almost every hunt it's like how did you say he was like man ? It's like I'm not there for the compliments , but man , does that make you feel good where ? yeah , these guys I'm hunting with were major guys in the industry .

Um , that have been around those four or five year old labs that people were at home about and we left every hunt . It's like man , there's no way . He's two years old . It's like man , send him on that retrieve . That's 300 yards , it's like because they know he's going to be back before we can even start , you know , calling out another duck .

We ended the season this year on a conservation snow hunt in Arkansas and we killed I think it was like eight or nine out of this one volley earlier in the morning and there were cripples in front of us and behind us and five or six out of the eight were blinds . Long story short , I had him and every bird retrieved , every cripple .

No birds lost within a few minutes and a couple of guys came back . They're like did you get that one over here ? Did you get that ? What about the one behind us ? And everyone else was like dude , he's already got them all and it just felt so good . I was like man . It's so special for me to have a young dog and be confident in picking up .

For me to have a young dog and be confident in picking up , um , not only the birds and the decoys . But like I'm a huge proponent , like man , I want my dog past those decoys because I can get the ones in the decoys , yeah , uh . So I don't know . It was a few moments that I hit that .

I was really hoping , hopeful for this season , um , and ended up hitting all of them yeah , that's I'm now .

And , admittedly , it's like you know , it's your second ever dog and probably your first one to take this seriously in training , because you're an adult now and you did it the right way and the payoff is huge .

And now you have all these seasons where next year he's going to be a two-year-old dog , almost three , which is still super young , and you've got this dog that's mature and experienced and you're not battling all the junk that comes with being too excited too early .

Um , and that's really for me , that's the majority of it is when you take a 10-month-old or even a 13 , 14-month-old out in the field . Sometimes you've got a seven or eight-year-old child in human terms , and I've had three of those and they do some pretty cool stuff .

I mean my , I have a 10 year old now and she does some very impressive stuff when it comes to like she was learning some learning decimals today and she did something awesome .

I was like you got it , you know that's really cool and so , yeah , she can do remedial elementary math , right , and you you're like , oh well , she's ready to take her math test , that's fine . But man , you leave her unsupervised for a minute and you don't know what you're gonna get .

The expectation is just not there , whereas my 14 year old I just let her do school all day and I'm like , oh , she's got it . Because , right , and with dogs there's this maturity that happens between one and two , even two and a half . That it's . It's a huge deal . And how they process information , how they process excitement .

And , yeah , I see so many people taking young dogs out . You see it all the time on social media . I'm sure you're like , I am , I only comment on so much now because we both represent a brand , right , so you have to be careful , but you see comments on there all the time .

There's my seven-month-old he's already 100 birds in and you're like , oh , my gosh , man , you , oh , there are other ways . So I'm I'm really excited . I'll send a link to the mantle because I think it's awesome , I think it's , it's a great watch . If you haven't seen it and but I did want you to share it for anyone , share the story .

For anyone that hasn't , uh , hasn't seen it . Tell me about your balance , um , being a guy who is obviously all in on working your dog and training your dog and then also having someone a professional help you train your dog .

I mean , even the knowledge I know , like the off season I have with him is just it's wild . But I want him to be so much further than my knowledge and so much further than the time I have to put that in . It's like I don't want to , I don't want to have to do that and I can't do that .

So I think it's super important if you want that high level dog , just like okay , find someone that is then like , if you can't invest in it , like wait until you can . Um , because I think it's the two things are so important to invest your time , and if you can invest your money into it , cause it has paid off , I won't do it any other way .

I truly won't . I mean , everywhere I take him and I I'm proud to say it's like man , I didn't do all of it . I did a lot of the basics . I spent every minute I can with them , which is super important . And Jamie , my trainer , will say the same thing it's like man , it's both of us , we , we .

We built this dog , um , because he , on the other hand , doesn't have the time to socialize him Like I can't . He doesn't have the time to build up a six , seven month old puppy before he's sent off . So , and that's why I love so much , it's like and it seems , it seems that I know it's the same way for y'all .

It's like you build that relationship with your dogs and owners to where you can build on both ends of the spectrum , that all around dog , because another reason I didn't take him that first year is because he might have made all the retrieves . But , man , I wouldn't have been able to leave that dog box without him running rampant as he should .

He's a one-year-old labs like I want him to run around and be a puppy , um , but year two . So I mean , man , you place , I'm a real .

You know , put up a snow goose spread for an hour like he's fine , yeah , um , but but that took two ends of the spectrum and that's another thing we'll get into about that post is you know , that was that was built on different aspects . He wasn't born with that right out the gate .

That's where it took that building of different stages with the dog and different momentums . I didn't have the time to do all of it , jamie didn't have the time to do all of it . Dex wasn't bred with all of it . We all worked as a team to make that happen . I'm a big proponent of that .

Like , if you have all the time to train your dog and think you have the knowledge to do it , that's great . Um , I don't have all the stars aligned , so my scenarios is is Jamie can take him all the way on on the gun dog and the bird dog side . I can take him all the way on the socialization and the time .

And then they always have a question of like isn't that a conflict with Cornerstone where you're teaching people do it yourself ?

I'm like no , not at all Because , truthfully , there are some people who have the time and all the rest of the resources to do it themselves and they want to go all in and they probably don't have a nine to five or if they do , they live on some acreage and they're really nothing going on from five to 7pm .

But then there's people like you where you recognize like , hey , the amount of time it takes to really work this dog through the paces . I should just pay Jamie to do it because I'm not going to have the time . I got a wife with a baby on the way I got . You know there's there are a lot of things that go into that .

But even if you send your dog to someone like you did , who's going to do the gun dog work ? There is still so much involvement from Luke to make sure Dex is performing at the level that he's been trained to perform to , and that's so hard to communicate .

Sometimes to people it's like , hey , I'm not going to hand you back over a robot , I haven't built a computer program that you can run . It's like , hey , this thing is still a sponge and I've taught him to do these really cool things and I need you to go keep him on this path . You know you got to keep him going , going the same direction .

And uh , it's definitely teamwork and those are the relationships that I value the most , that I can tell clearly you have with with jamie . It's like , hey , when a client is all in and they're like , hey , you know calling miles and hey , here's what the dog did on this hunt . I love this and this , but we had a little issue with this . What do I do ?

Cause I don't want to ruin it . You know I don't want next year , seriously .

Jamie explained to me which I was like I've never thought about it that way is they put in so much time on running them and building that relationship to learn the dog and learn the tones and the key components of running and even down to like no , no , on a blind . It's like no here , to look a foot to the right .

I have to work so hard to be able to match how jamie runs him because he's running him every day for hours at a time , and I think that's one thing in my opinion .

And again , I I'm curious to hear your opinion that the owners and handlers that when they get the dog back don't try to replicate or mimic or even put any time in of learning that dog in the trainer as well .

It's like OK , if Jamie's saying here no , no , and I'm saying , come this way , it's like if you're not learning that , it's like you're doing the dog a disservice . Learning that it's like you're doing the dog a disservice and if I also have had to call him . He's like man .

How do I set this scenario up on a training scenario , like you have to continue furthering him or at least to keep him up .

Um , I don't think a lot of people do that once the dog gets past I mean two or three years old and they get to the point where it's like they start a week before season and they allow the dog to get back into it again a week into the season or week before season , instead of putting that time in with the dog in the off season once they're past a

certain age .

Some people are and some people aren't , and I encourage all the people who are not like hey look , if you're just and we have people that are so honest with us and I I love these guys . I can think of three of them right now who I would sell them another dog tomorrow .

Who in August , september , october , they're sending their dog back to us and they're going to say he hadn't done anything , he's been chilling , and we're going to have him for two or three months to tighten it all back up and they're going to hunt him and he's going to do fine , and then they're going to hunt him and he's going to do fine , and then they're

going to send him back next year and that's just how it's going to go . But they recognize I mean these are guys that own companies and they're flying around everywhere and like that . That's just it . They don't have the time to put in Now .

They do understand they have to handle the dog well and I can think of one this past year who you know called Wally and was like hey year , who you know called wally , and was like hey , I'm the dogs . The dog's giving me no goes . And it's funny because you hear that and you think no way you know .

Imagine if you thought of like chevy giving you a no-go . You're like it's not okay , you know what you're right . So you immediately know well , you're doing something wrong , or the dog's just got your number or whatever . And so of course , wally went hunting with a guy and dog was like perfect , you know . He's like well , why does he do that for you ?

He's like well , I've taken the time to build in this relationship , just like you just said .

But the ones who do take the time and this is why I encourage even our guys who pay us to train their dog , to still at least get the complete academy with cornerstone , you know , huntable retreat , because it's like hey , you can go watch these videos and see clearly how like if you , you can even go in and say , hey , I'm having a problem with directional

casting , and you can go find three or four videos and you can watch me handle a dog through those problems and you can mimic that right .

And it's another reason why I've southern oak has branched out the way it does , because I realized very early on , personally I'm not going to be able to talk to every person who buys a dog from us , but if I can put them in touch with one guy who's trained their dog and have that relationship like you do with Jamie .

That's super important Because I don't want anyone out there saying , well , I tried to call the guy but I couldn't get a hold , you can't have that , there's no room for it , because it's such a um , such a hands-on skill that has to be taught , it's so , so delicate .

So , yeah , um , for us , like learning those things and even the little nuances of like I mean , look , I'm sure you see this man , you see a guy and you're like well , you're lining the dog up . Wrong , that wrong , that's not how he lines up . So you hear that , hey , give me two seconds , you're good . I have to turn the water off .

Our pipes just thawed out , oh shoot . I had them running and they froze solid . Hold on , yeah , take your time . All right , I'm not even going to edit it out , I'm just going to let it go . That's the South for you .

We built this place for normal temperatures and when it dropped down to nine degrees the whole place we even had the pipes dripping and they still froze up .

Hey , you want to know why your dog's not taking a straight line . You're not going through any of the steps we taught you on how to line the dog up , like you talked about . The dog's just looking way over here and that's the way it's going to go .

It's cool when you see someone get all in and figure it out and those are the people usually like yourself that they don't care so much about numbers . They definitely don't care about shooting . They want to see some cool retrieves , and I'm like you . I'm like hey , look the ones that fall in the decoys .

We can run and grab those real fast , but everybody can have a much more enjoyable time because my dog got these birds that are way out there . That's what it's all about , man .

So you're going to have cripples way past decoys . I mean we had cripples three , four , five , 600 yards that we as a person can see . It's a white bird on a barley or wheat field . That's like you can see this cripple that far out and handle a young dog that far out . And I say it all the time .

It's like we're not big , and me personally I'm not big on like hooping and hollering . Um , if we , if we kill a bunch of birds like I , just it's just not me , I love it , I eat it up .

But when you want to see me get fired up , it's like if I can handle my dog , a young dog , or see a young dog chase down and be handled properly to a three , four , five hundred yard blind , you will hear me hoop and holler and I absolutely eat it up . I love it .

But when you have a dog , a young dog especially , and you're running a blind like that one that you sent the dog on , you're like I know that , I know he can , but it's gonna be some work to get to this one , and whenever it is that you give that last cast and they take it and then they see it . And that doesn't always happen .

Sometimes they run right over the top of it like , oh , there it is .

But the ones where you're in a field like that and you give a right back at 250 and they go 25 yards and then they see it and you see them pick up , see it and you see them pick up to me I'm like that dog just experienced the best class today because the confidence and I did everything I was told . I'm like , oh , there it is .

And you can just see them like , yeah , I'm that .

But midway through the hunt we had a . Um , we had a bird probably 30 yards out of the decoys . It wasn't a super long retrieve , but it was just where , like Dex is super long and tall and it was just where he had to swim halfway out . Um , but it was .

It was his first experience with a bird , a cripple that was diving on him and literally the first time ever . And he went out there and like two or three times trying to grab it .

Um , after the third or fourth time he went underwater and like , only his tail was sticking out and to me , like with my older dog goose and every dog's different , but it took him quite a while to learn that you know it , to figure it out and put it , I'm gonna go down after him instead of waiting for him to come up to me .

Um , after he did that , I was like man , I could stop the hunt right now . You hadn't had a lot of retrieves , but it was , like you said , when they put it together , that last , that last back or left or back um , it was . It was cool .

away and he literally barrel rolled it Like he wanted it so bad he was barrel rolling with it , um , but it wasn't just a retrieve , it was barrel rolling with it , um , but it wasn't just a retrieve , it was like I'm so glad that wasn't the last one , it was earlier on in the hunt and it was like his .

His handling on a blind was almost completely different . He didn't want to go in the decoys , he wanted to run past him and everything started clicking .

So it was so cool to end the whole season like he did , great on blinds , but I really got to push him out and see him put it together and see it enacted on the same hunt later on on more retrieves , yeah , so I guess it was more so , just like the retrieves that allowed him to put it together , more so than the distance or the difficulty or anything

like that . It was just seeing him learn .

I was like dang , that's cool and everyone loves to see that .

But even more so , I think , like I call it the , the nat geo scene , like everyone's watching a dog way out there and the goose starts to try to fly away and it's like really truly dog versus everyone loves that and they're all like oh , and then you see them , tackle them and everybody , yeah , you know , I love that so much , man , that's that .

That's a cool feeling that if you're not the guy that has ever handled a dog to that scenario , there is no way to describe what that feels like when it's hooping and holler .

I'm not Joe Rogan or Sean Ryan , so I'm not going for that four hour mark , but you made a I thought was a great , greatly worded post and I was like I disagree . However , I think we probably do agree . I pulled it up just so I wouldn't get it wrong . So I want to read it and I just want to talk through it because I think we'll .

The whole reason I started this podcast early on was to build bridges . I want to build bridges between ideas , training , scenarios and , like I've been , I've been through the weeds with with several guys , with Bob Owens , with Chris , with guys that you know .

We've gone way off into American versus British and all that and it's been honestly so great because we agree on so much more than we disagree on almost every time . So I want to read this post because I think we probably agree on a lot , but I just want to chat about it as a breeder who's used this term , so you said , as a quote from you .

I've been thinking a lot lately about how misleading the term off switch is when it comes to dogs . In my opinion , dogs aren't born with an off switch . You'll hear breeders use the term often and I used it as well from hearing it so much , but now I don't agree with it .

If you put in the time early on , you can teach your dog to have different modes in quotes . But if you let them run wild they won't know when to settle down . Instead of calling it an off switch , it's more accurate to say the siren dam are teachable and biddable , and then we can go into .

You built kind of three modes with decks , indoors , outside and hunting and training , which I think is super , super helpful . So I just want you to elaborate a little bit more on that and your thoughts on that . I'll give you kind of my thoughts on it and then we can go from there .

I think the term overall , the off switch in today's industry , and dogs specifically , obviously has been the misleading term because I think you see a lot of guys the vast majority are not the Jamie or the Barton Southern Oak .

I think the vast majority are the opposite of that the guys that maybe haven't been doing it a lot and maybe a lot of guys in the middle , but all of them across the board like to use the term off switch , to use the term off switch .

So to me it just has become misleading because a lot of people think when you get a dog that they say , oh , the mom and dad have have an off switch , it's like a lot of guys that don't maybe have the time or don't want to put in the time with the dog will automatically think when they're looking at it it's like , okay , my dog would be calm inside and

want to hunt all the time . And you know , I don't . That's where I think it's wrong , where the guys that just looking at it from a broad aspect , like I want a dog that'll hunt , but the dog that'll be calm with my child , um , without any work . And I think that's where the misleading is .

It's where , like a lot of guys don't talk about the work that you have to put into . Let's say they are born with an off switch to allow that switch to actually happen . You know , let's use Chevy for an example . He is a absolute go getter .

He's like him and Dex , just like they have got the go sometimes more than you even want , just like they have got the go sometimes more than you even want .

Um , so both of those dogs that they have that but they are never taught , they never leave the kennel or they're never put in a situation with other dogs or other people , they're going to be absolute hellions inside um .

So to me , when I was saying that , I was more so meaning towards , like after the initial breeding , it's like you have to put in just as much time to make that work if they do have that off switch to make it happen . So I think the term overall , going back to it across the industry , has been misleading .

Like if you say the mom and dad were teachable and biddable and now have an off switch , I think that completely reverses it to where it's like okay , now I know they're teachable and biddable , so I can , I can teach them and they will listen to me , so I can , I can instill that in them , so like they'll listen to me whether I'm in the field or they're

listening to me , whether I'm in the office around a bunch of dogs or kids or anything like that . Um , so it's , it's , it's a play on words . I think if people didn't abuse the term off switch , I would agree with it being a thing across the industry .

Like if you , if you told me from the start , if I didn't know what a dog was , your dogs have an off switch . It would mean so much more than a guy backyard breeder that's out there . It's like oh , these dogs have an off switch .

They have just as much a right to say these terms as I do . You could argue that whether you have more or less experience , you have more or less of a right to use it , but regardless , I mean there are people who have far more experience than me in all of these things that can use these terms .

So I prefer to define them super clearly so that it's not just misleading , because , like so I've , I've had a couple I've actually had a couple of tough conversations over the last year with some , some of folks that I'd love to be friends with , who are in the American side of things , who will make an argument Like they'll post a photo or video of dogs like

sleeping and say you know what do you mean ? They don't have an off switch and I'm like hold on , every dog sleeps a lot . Every dog and Labrador sleep a ton . I mean Labrador puppies sleep up to like 22 hours a day 18 hours normally for a six month old Like that's a lot of sleep .

So , yeah , you can go grab a photo of your dog sleeping anytime sleep . So , yeah , you can go grab a photo of your dog sleeping anytime . The most hyperactive dog on the planet still sleeps . What I want to know is in the midst of chaos we'll call it stimulation things that will cause a dog to be or excitable contexts Can your dog keep it together ?

And I definitely think it's a both and I think I don't think you're wrong . I think you can take a dog who has been bred to have , uh , uh , the ability I won't even use the term off switch who has been bred to have the ability genetically to remain calm in the midst of excitement . And you can ruin that . You can , absolutely .

You can hunt them too soon . You can put , you can teach them that it's okay to be uncontrollable in the midst of that . And you can absolutely . And look , dude , I'm a , I'm a breeder . You know my product reflects on me and unfortunately , not everybody does the same thing with the dogs as I would want them to do .

So this happens , right , you see these dogs . I'm like this dog is completely unruly . And then I get that question , which I think is a lot of clearly what you mean in your post . Somebody will say , well , I thought you told me this dog was going to have an off switch .

And I'm like , well , dang it . Yeah , I hoped it would , you know , and , genetically speaking , it's always a gamble , right , and like , what I tell people is I'm trying to deal you a hand in this poker game that has some pretty daggum good odds . You can still play it very poorly , yeah , and it's .

It's hard when you're handing over this little lump of genes that will eat its own poop and , you know , cry its head off in a crate for the first few nights . And you're like there's high expectation here because of genetically what's in there , but environmentally is so important , it's so important .

Um , the real reason that I , like the only qualm I had , is I do actually think , genetically speaking , there are some lineages out there that really , really have a tough time with what I said earlier staying calm in an excitable environment .

And that's where I'm like , hey , these are being sold to duck hunters and the parents , even though you can blow a whistle and stop them at a distance and cast them so they're teachable , have no ability to remain calm and quiet when calls are going off and other dogs are being sent .

So I don't know if you've seen that or not , or your thoughts on that , like whether or not there is an actual genetic component that could be like hey , this dog only really has an on switch when it comes to excitable environments .

I , in my opinion , based on what I've been around and the dogs you know I've had a lot of dogs but I've been around a lot of dogs and had two very high drive dogs as well he is one of those dogs which he's not but that you're talking about that has the , has a hard time with the off switch , or has a hard time turning it off , or however you want

to put it . I still think that obviously it can be taught . You might have a harder time with it , but you can still teach those different modes based on the environments you put them around and how you act .

I also think like for me , and this is the other part I wanted to talk about like I also think like for me , and this is the other part I wanted to talk about like I would rather like the audience I want to speak to personally is like who I was and who I am the younger crowd , the guy just getting into a dog , to where , let's say , they go to Barton

or Miles , anyone at Southern Oak to get a puppy . I would rather them come to you with the mindset like , okay , the off switch isn't there , but I have to put the time in to create it . And then they come to you with the mindset of like , okay , the off switch isn't there , but I have to put the time in to create it .

And then they come to you with the dog , in your opinion , that does have that off switch bred into them . It's literally in their blood . To where it's like the perfect combination of the stars aligned .

Like I would rather those young guys come to you with the mindset of like I'm going to have to put the time in everywhere I can to build both ends of the spectrum to where it's like . Imagine if that was the case across the board for the younger generation .

Like the dogs would be on a whole entire different level and the and the outlook on the dogs would have . I mean , it'd be like night and day difference . So that's just how I'm looking at it . Like I I love that point on your level like would look at the post very similar than you are . It's like no , I've had both dogs .

But if you're a young guy like I was at 12 , 13 to 18 years old like , okay , wow , I need to . I can't just let the dog sit . I got to work with him all year long Cause he isn't born with it . You know what I mean . It's like I think it's setting both them up for success and even for y'all .

It's like bringing a younger generation with the mindset of like doing even more with y'all as well and that being the goal it's like . Obviously , I know that dogs are bred different ways and I believe in very highly in good breeding , if you're getting a dog with a purpose and a working task . But there's also different parts of the industry and ages as well .

I feel that frustration and I totally get it because simultaneously I can , I could name you , I can name you three of Chevy's half siblings right now that just don't have a good off switch . Naturally , genetically speaking , they were wound up really tight . Rio , the one that was with me , he'll settle because I've taught him to settle .

Like your post said , he knows what it means to be inside . Your post said , right , he knows what it means to be inside . And to give you guys who are listening an example of this , just so you fully grasp what I'm saying , because Rio is just like Red who's Chevy's father . They're very closely bred . They're very similar in this characteristic .

If I bring Rio into the lodge in here and I bring Moose , moose is great , people know who that dog is . So if I bring Moose and Rio in and I'm walking all around the lodge , moose is going to realize within about 30 seconds . All we're doing is chilling . He's going to lay down , he's going to go to sleep .

If I put on the grind waterfowl TV or the mantle or the bond and people start blowing duck calls and shooting , moose is going to stay asleep .

Rio , like , is going to sit up in the yeti bed and look for ducks that might break through the windows and then , if I walk out of that room into another room , he's going to bend his head as far as he can until he realizes that he can't see me , he might creep off the bed , see if he can get a look , and as soon as he sees me , he's going to run

back to the bed and sit straight up . And it's going to be that way until he decides it's okay to take a nap and as soon as he hears me open a door , he's going to pop right back up and and , genetically speaking , that's the difference in those two dogs . Right , moose is going to sleep until I wake him up , and he would have .

I was around him as a young dog . He would do that as a youngster . Rio is going to be like , at any moment I could be called to active duty . So , and that's just the difference in those two and I imagine Chevy is probably more similar to Rio in some ways .

So from a genetic disposition standpoint they're definitely and they're both of them flew here on a plane from England Like they're as British as British gets . And so to have this general blanket statement like , oh , british dogs have an off switch , you really need to define what you mean and define it with each .

That's why on our website we kind of rank them Like where are they on the spectrum of off switch ? And American dogs are just the same . Anyone who says American dogs don't have an off switch and British dogs do is lying . They're just not telling the truth .

I think that there are a lot of breedings out there for dogs that if you weren't a professional handler you would not be able to control this dog , and that's a problem , I think , because , again , you need to do more research as a youngster and they're being sold to young guys who think they want a Ferrari and they really need a Land Rover and it's like hey

, you , you , this is what you got . The problem I have , and I think the frustration I have , is I wind up on phone calls At least I would say , if I'm being very honest twice a week , sometimes three times a week , with people who were like , hey , I want to buy a dog from you guys , I just need something different than my first dog .

Here's what I was sold and I just can't get this dog to settle down . He's had two years of pro training . I hunt the mess out of him but like he drives my wife crazy , he drives my kids crazy , like he can't chill in the house . So I do think there are some dogs who don't have a quote unquote off switch .

However , to agree with your post , I don't think that their parents were probably teachable and biddable to atmosphere or environment Number one , which is indoors , because they never experienced it .

It's like , let's say , your dog doesn't have to go , um , they're only on off . It's like I want you to come in here and and learn the ways to get them more excited , if that's what you want , or the opposite . It's like I just I want people to know . It's like , man , put the time in with your dog If you're going to invest anything into them , you know .

It's like if you're going to invest any money , invest the time too . And because I would also argue , it's like if you put the proper time in with your dogs , like you would know a little bit earlier on what they have . Sure , you know , like with Dex , like I made it a point , I wanted him to have as much go as I could possibly have .

So I asked everyone I could , I could , that was around me . It's like , how do I get him excited for a bumper ? How do I get him excited for a duck ? And we didn't work on steadiness with him until he was , I mean , I mean way past what most guys do . We built him up and didn't have him .

I mean he broke whenever he wanted to on training , like because I wanted him as much goes . He could get behind a bumper and then pull him back from there , if that makes sense , and I think the opposite too . So I don't , and I think you can do the opposite too . So I don't know , I think I could keep going in the weeds with it .

But I I'm on both ends of the spectrum of obviously there's good breeding , find a dog that's biddable and teachable too . But if their mom and dad are firecrackers , like probably going to get a firecracker pup . You know what I mean it . You know it's like I agree with you on that . To hey , I got to put the work in right .

I would also love for them , on the flip side , to have the genetic homework done , like , hey , if I want a dog to be A , b and C , they had better have parents that are A , b and C , because you're not going to go find a dog that's from X , y , z parents and get an A , b and C dog .

It's rare that that will ever happen , but I think for me what's important about reading your post ? I've been thinking a lot about it and we could go round and round , because you mentioned several things I totally agree with . You can have a great off switch . That doesn't mean a hill of beans because you don't have an on switch .

Like , oh yeah , cool , your dog has an off switch . Well , it also doesn't care to retrieve . Who cares ? I have no value in off switch if the dog doesn't have drive . Like if your dog is walking back with a bird on the third retrieve , I'm okay . So what if it has an off switch ? That's fine .

Personally speaking , there's a lot of opinions when it comes to dogs . That's just my opinion . I want to see a dog that's fired up coming back hard . My new dog , will , is one of my favorite things about him . He's hard charging and when he picks the bird up it's like something is trying to chase and kill him on the way back .

I'm like , dude , you're in such a hurry to get back , and I love that up a little bit of how you say that , instead of just saying , yeah , these dogs will have an off switch , maybe it's yeah , the off switch is in there , but you're going to have to develop it . You know .

I think that's a cool takeaway for me , because then you're putting some ownership back on the people who are buying your dogs and helping them to have proper expectations , because you can take a dog who has a propensity genetically to have a good off switch , to be very quiet , and you can make them a break and whiner uh with with improper work .

But the last thing I want to do , like the whole whole purpose of it , is just like the misleading . Like I don't believe that y'all are misleading people , you know , and I don't believe that some of these other top trainers are misleading people . It's just the other end of it .

I think some people are , and and make it harder on y'all when you do use the term off switch , it's like it's just a whole different ball game for me and I might be looking at it wrong , but it's . It's frustrating to an extent and I'm not even the one training these people's dogs .

I wanted a certain look in the dog , like all of this that went into the breeding itself , and it's like I'm a huge proponent of good breeding and looking at things within the breeding . It's like if you were to call off switch a different like use a different term for it , I would probably just agree .

Just the problem is in my phone's blown up the rest of the day , but just go post and say what does an off switch mean to you ? You're going to get a hundred different answers .

I'm like hold on , my dogs aren't english labs . He's like well , I thought they're from england . I'm like okay , totally fair question , dude . Like totally fair , but these terms are not used in that way .

That's a showbred dog which is often not even from the uk , they're from america , but they're called or bench bread and we went down the whole whole row and I was like my dogs are far more similar to american field bread dogs than they are to those english dogs , far more so you'd have an easy time telling my dogs apart from english labs and a tough time

telling my dogs , apart from probably the dogs that you see at jamie's place , um , I mean even dex . He's not a he's . You put dex and um , you know who he reminds me of . He's like a bigger version of blake allen's dog , rose . Their faces look very similar and she's full british . She's a grand hunt retriever champion . In the face they look very similar .

Uh , and

it's not . It's one of those deals where I think we've the terms , the buzzwords .

I understand why they would annoy you , as a guy who's put the work in , and Dex and probably Chevy I'll bring this up with Addison they very easily could have wound up being dogs that don't have an off switch yep if raised improperly , I'm sure Dex and Chevy , one one American bread , one British bread , could have been nightmares in the gunner office .

Um , I've hunted over some dogs that don't get out there quick and don't come back out there or don't get back quick , that are stellar , but just my personal opinion and preference , like I want them getting out and coming back quick . Like , don't mess up my next folly . You're getting back in here and loving every bit of it .

Um , and I agree , it's like I , I , I think I helped move that along and build it , but I think he would have been excited to get it regardless . Um , and the same way , I think he would have been able to come inside and sleep after you know , jumping on a few people , but he'd be sleeping .

But now , if people walk in with kids hooping and hollering , he's not going to get off his place . And if I play anything with ducks , he's going to get up , but he's not going to get off his place . So it's just how far you want to go with it .

You know goose , and you wind up in this journey that leads you undoubtedly to working at gunner , which , if you'd never gotten a Labrador , no chance you know and then which leads you to this journey to find genetically what you're looking for and work so hard at it . And through Dex , you make all these other friends . And to me , I'm just blown away .

Everywhere I turn , I'm blown away at what these dogs do to improve our lives , including the friendships and the steps along the journey that we never would have been able to take without them . It's wild , I love it .

If you had told me that I'm on a podcast talking about dogs that people actually get on the listen to , I'd be like on top of the world and it literally has just come from . Like the relationships I've built with my dogs and and man , am I thankful for that ? Like it's just , it's the coolest thing ever .

And the more people are around me like to learn that man , I get fired up about the dogs . Like if you put a well-trained dog in front of me , like I'm good for hours .

And that man , look , when you have buddies that have companies and you have people that come work for them , that have like some bit of like you have a rudder , you know , like the direction of the brand at gunner kennel is going to be somewhat involved on on in what you decide , and so when you have buddies that have companies and they hire someone , you're

like kind of cringe for a second , like , oh , I hope we go the right direction . And , man , I'm so happy that you're a part of that brand and the direction that you guys have gone . The social media blogs , all of those things , man , man , I've been . It's been really fun to watch . I think you're doing an awesome job there .

Uh , continuing that going in the right direction . Excited to hopefully hunt with dex we got to put something in the books for next year , so we got to get them out with one of our dogs or get them out with chevy dog .

I'm sure they spend a bit of time I I have to say this I'm I plan on harping on this a bunch with Addison , but like Chevy is 80% our dog , I can't wait for y'all to get into that .

If you haven't heard of Gunner as a brand , I don't know where you've been . But if they want to find Gunner as a brand or find Luke Moore on social media , how do they do that ?

I think every product we've come out with has been , but we've got a couple that are very exciting . So y'all stay tuned for that .

Um , bart , and I seriously appreciate you having me on and um , I know everyone knows like our partnership , like we're friends with everybody , but you've been here towards the beginning of gunner before I was even here and addison emily macy , like all the rest of the crew , is super thankful for it .

Um , and gunner in general is , so we all appreciate y'all over here at the Gunner crew .

Some of the stuff that's come out the last couple of years for a guy who travels on the road with 10 to 12 dogs 65 to 80 days a year has been like the amount that the food crate and the food bowls even being stackable and so easy to clean and keep food if they don't eat it all and the food scoop not spilling stuff like the amount that that's made my

life easier is non-quantifiable .

And I have this vivid memory of driving to Michigan for a goose hunt and not realizing that the carpet was wet in my storage on my ain't Lee and I pulled that bag out and the whole bottom of the bag fell out and I spilled 44 pounds of eukanuba dog food in grass and dirt .

Oh yeah , and like I don't have to deal with that anymore , man , it's so great , it's so great , so I'm looking forward to the future . Uh , we'll have to do this again at some point . Thanks for being candid and honest and talking about your dog for those of you guys listening . Thank you for joining in hope you .

You enjoyed it and we'll catch you next time on the lab .