¶ Gun Dog Training and Hunting
Welcome to the lab , a Cornerstone Gun Dog Academy podcast focused on all things gun dogs , good times and the great outdoors . I'm your host , barton Ramsey . What's up everyone .
I am here on episode 3 with my buddy , jeff Irvine , all the way from a land very , very far away from , i would guess , most of you guys listening , and that is the land of New Zealand , jeff , what's up , man ?
I hate Spain . We're all good down here and good to be on the show .
Yeah , well , we had to figure out the schedule just because I originally planned on doing this tomorrow morning and then I started looking the clock and I was like Lord , it's gonna be 2 am or something crazy for you . So I'm glad it worked out to do it tonight for me and I guess it's middle of the day for you Lunch break , huh .
Yeah , it's 2 o'clock .
Yeah , here's Jay Day ahead .
of me , you're having a Monday .
You know I'm still on the weekend , so no , that's cool . I remember we'll get into it , but that time change is significant . It is a long ways down to New Zealand . Tell people a little bit about where you are on the South Island and , geographically speaking , where you are in New Zealand .
So in New Zealand there's two islands There's the North Island and the South Island , and where I live is on the top of the South Island , so a place called Nelson , and it's a really nice sunny place . It's not an amazing waterfowl place so I have to travel to get into any good waterfowl , but yeah , it's a nice place to live .
How far if you were to drive from Nelson , which is the top of the South Island ? how far is it if you were to drive all the way down to , let's just say , the very bottom of the island ?
Probably 12 hours maybe .
So it's big . yeah , we didn't really go that far , i guess . And just to clarify , i'm talking to you in early July , which for everyone over here is the middle of summer , hottest time of year . We just set some records recently for how hot it is , but not for you , i guess . are you ? is this middle of winter for you guys ?
Yeah , it's midwinter and it's quite cold at the moment , but it hasn't been as cold as what it usually is because we've had so much rain . It's rained every opportunity it could . I hadn't been too bad .
But yeah , midwinter it'll be nice to get some hot weather because , in my opinion , as soon as the hunting season finishes , as soon as the duck season is gone , you just want it to be summer .
Yeah , that's . I definitely understand that feeling . Yeah , when February gets around and we finish late goose season which I want to talk to you about in a minute I'm like it's the sooner that it can warm up and I can just go outside and be comfortable , the better . And I live in the South . It's not super cold here . How far do we drive ?
So , for those that don't know , jeff's been a friend of mine . I don't know how . I mean we met in 2019 , but I don't really remember when we started talking . It was before that .
We talked on and off for many , many years now , probably 10 years previous to that Yeah but it was usually just about dogs , or I always liked the way you train dogs and you had all those training programs and they were really awesome , so you just just used to ask questions mostly .
Sure , yeah , jeff used to reach out and have just dog questions or just more or less just what's up , what's going on in the hunting season over there , which I totally understand now , because it's not hunting season here and when your Instagram pops up it's usually you guys just absolutely wreck and chop on some geese and I'm like dang , it's not season here .
but that's the one thing kind of makes me miss it seeing your stuff , you know , since the seasons are flipped .
But in 2019 I received an invite from a very sweet family in the North Island , i guess near Auckland , to come to New Zealand and do some retriever training seminars , kind of as a representative for Cornerstone and Southern Oak Kennels with some folks up in the North , and I texted you .
I was like , hey , i got a chance to come to New Zealand and you happen to know , it's Eugenie , right ? Yeah , you knew Eugenie and and reached out to her and we worked it out to where I could fly to New Zealand and then come down to your place . I flew , i think , straight into Nelson , right , or ?
yeah , right there in .
Nelson and flew in there and spent I don't know almost a week down there with you and I don't remember how far we drove , but I want to get into some of it because it was . It was an absolute blast being down there , but that was in , i guess , may of April or May . When did you ? when does y'all season ?
start .
May of 2019 so a little over four years ago , and I just told Bethany and some friends of ours we were , bethany and I , just got back from Park City , utah , celebrating 15 years of marriage , and had an absolute blast and we don't get to do big trips like that much .
But I told her , i said hey , for my 40th birthday , which is four years away , we're going to New Zealand , we're going back , we're gonna come shoot some ducks with you , geese , whatever it is , it's open and then hopefully just see the whole things and I want to get into a little bit of it with you .
But when I flew in there , once I caught up on my sleep , you know you go somewhere . I'm sure you've come over here a bunch and you you're like really ready to get going because you don't want to miss anything . But gosh , 17 hour time difference . The jet lag is intense , but we got going . Do you remember that ? they , they , the airline , they did .
My bag didn't make it yeah . I only had my carry on .
I didn't have any waiters yeah , that's right , you were here for such a short time . It's actually funny if you retrace the steps . Eugenie run me and said we were looking to talk to Barton from southern 8 kennels and I said , oh well , i know , i know Barton , i will call him .
So I called and and we made that contact , but you , you were only here for a couple of days , like two or three days , it was so short and we didn't get . We only got to hunt a couple of days the first time yeah , the first time .
I'll try to share some pictures of this on my social for folks that are listening . But the first time we drove I don't know how far it was , but we hunted a river and it was actually part of the same river where they filmed the hobbits in the wine barrels kind of coming down . That's a more aggressive part . We hunted a very calm part .
What's that river called ?
So that's the Polaris River . Yeah , that's right , That's exactly . it's a pretty little spot . It's probably about an hour and a half out of Nelson .
Yeah , it was just a beautiful drive through the hills and mountains up there . We scouted it and hunted A-frames right off the bank And it was not deep I mean maybe knee deep , not super deep out there Need a waist And we killed ducks that I have never seen before or since Paradise shell ducks .
So tell us a little bit about Paradise shell ducks , because I'd never even heard of them .
So yeah , paradise shell duck is the world's biggest duck And it's actually . It's not a goose and it's not a duck , it's halfway in between . We shoot a lot of them So we don't really appreciate what they have , but they're amazingly colorful bird . They're great to hunt .
They really decoy really well , cause I think that day we shot a limit and we had a few guys and I think we shot 50 or 60 birds .
Yeah , 50 or 60 .
And I remember you saying to me oh , that was pretty Western , but I remember that that was pretty much a typical , typical kind of day , you know .
And you guys hunt them . We hunted them over the river , but you told me that you might also hunt them in the fields . Is that right ? Well , you guys call a field of paddocks , right .
Yeah , that's it .
So dry field hunting or and and climate's pretty , i mean it's cold but it's fairly mild , and those birds they have a really strange call , but they really just decoyed . They decoyed in like I mean they just didn't care . Yeah , they always do .
A lot of people think over here they're stupid , they're just stupid ducks . but I really like they're just committed , they decoyed so well , they come in all upside down , probably like snow geese and yeah , they're really . they're really cool bird and they're very underestimated . in New Zealand We don't , because there's a lot around and a lot of places we don't .
we really take them for granted . but a lot of American hunters that'll probably be the number one bird they'll want to shoot and they'll want to put in their trophy cabinet or whatever . So yeah , Yeah , that's pretty cool .
I had . We shot one , which just a couple of mallards , but toward the end of the hunt I had one bird on my bucket list from down there and that was , i guess , a black swan .
And , if you'll remember , toward the end of the hunt we were , we were almost ready to pack it up and you heard it , they make a very distinct sound and that thing was just barreling up the river And , yeah , like a bomber and somebody handed me a gun . I think it took three shots to knock that thing down and I was so beyond .
The thing was huge , huge , so that that hunt , really I mean it made the trip . First hunt . We killed 50 parries , a couple mallards and one or two black swans and took a picture on that old tractor and I was like man , these guys have it made . Yeah , yeah , yeah , it was cool .
It was cool . I can remember that swan because we were . We were trying to get a swan for the whole day . Everyone was trying to . Everyone was rooting for you and wanting you to do it . And then one finally turned up and and , yeah , it took three shots to get it down , but no , that was . That was real cool , that was a real highlight .
And there's a really cool photo that someone took me or one of the other blokes with you with that swan .
And yeah , i mean you're about .
You're like about seven foot six and it was about as cool as three .
Yeah , but I man that was . That was one , honestly one of the best . I still have videos from that day and it was man .
If you haven't you know , i just went to a to Park City , utah , and it's mountainous , and I live in Mississippi , so I have a lot of trees , hills , no mountains , and when you go somewhere that's different , it's not what you're used to seeing . It's really like .
For me , that's one of the most magnificent parts of this is seeing new things and driving through , excuse me , new Zealand and just seeing the terrain and that river in particular . I mean , i imagine for people there it's really nothing special , but it is truly , really beautiful .
There's some mountains in the background there , but then the fog set in about mid morning and it was like a golden , like just right over the whole river . Peaceful It was , and I'm a big Lord of the Rings fan too , so the fact that the hobbits have been floating around close to there , it was , that was an amazing experience . We went and hunted the coast .
Yeah , we did , we did , and that was the day that we got brought back to reality , because I mean , we got up really early and it was a bluebird day with no wind , and that spot is like a really good spot usually but I think we shot one duck , or did we even shoot a duck .
I think we shot one duck . maybe it was a mallard or a teal , I don't remember .
It was this . yes , It was a bear .
But the part I remember was and my friends still give me a hard time about this I didn't have any waders , So I was borrowing clothes .
That's how you had my clothes mostly .
Yeah , squeezing in , And I thankfully you had plenty of sitka gear for me and I you guys , had to carry me from the boat to the blind .
That's right .
I'm probably the least properly sized person to be carried at that point in my life . And you said can I get you anything else , mallard ? And it was on social media and all of my friends started laughing about y'all calling me mallard while y'all were carrying me on your shoulders to the blind over there .
And then I remember we about got stuck because the tide .
Oh yeah , it was . It was . That whole day was just what we would say in New Zealand just the big balls up . It was just . It was ridiculous that everything went wrong , that possible We had . We had such a good first day And then the second day we were just everything we did just turned to casted . So what do you do ? That's hunting , no way .
Well , if you don't have those days , you don't appreciate the good days .
That's it .
I've had a couple couple little strings , especially this last season . We had a little string of days at Wild Wings And then I went out West , kept the street going back to Wild Wings . It was around 11 days for me of just limits just crushing them .
And then toward the end of the season we had some really rough days where it was just scratching them and I was like God , you get kind of spoiled , you know , you get , you get used to the good stuff .
So you guys are if there's no anticipation . You wouldn't do it , if you're right . It was just if you were just shooting them up all the time , you might have just be shooting clays , eh .
That's right . So tell me um .
¶ Canada Geese Hunting in New Zealand
In New Zealand , waterfowl season starts when it ends when for duck hunting .
So they have a summer season , which is madness , um , but they have it in certain um areas or regions down south , So they have it for a few weeks or a few weekends down south And then , paradise , duck season can be all over the place .
They can have different , different regions can have different seasons , but the the regular duck season or the main duck season is May , June and July , So three months .
Yeah , so just really flip flops with sort of our November , december , january .
Yeah , yeah .
So yeah , um yeah , but that's not the case for Canada , geese .
No , canada geese . The good thing is Canada geese you can shoot all year round . Not everyone does that , though , like there's obviously a moat and whatever else and a lot of guys just leave geese alone . So most people kind of hunt geese after the duck season . So they would hunt geese kind of August to Novemberish , until it gets hot .
Until it gets hot , yeah , and then they would chase them again . probably February , march , april , to the duck season comes in again .
How far do you have to go from Nelson to get into some really good goose hunting ?
Seven hours .
Seven .
Yeah , seven hours , yeah Yeah that's crazy .
I mean I say it's crazy but I have to drive to Kansas or Oklahoma to get into some good lesser and three and a half four hours for some good speckle belly hunting with Aaron and the boys . But you guys , how often do you go down there ? Because you guys kill .
I mean , look on social media is the highlight reel , right , but you guys kill the mess out of geese over there .
Yeah , we do . So basically the hunting that I kind of do now down south is way more selective . Like , i probably go every couple of weeks , two to three weeks maybe I used to go more than that . But I've got some really good buddies down south that they usually scout and whatever else , because time's precious and I can't spend the time down there .
I can't spend weeks and weeks down there . So they do all that Connor and Hunter and Callum and a lot of those guys . They're awesome .
Yeah , yeah , I got to meet Callum and Hunter over there , yeah , yeah , and Callum Callum , my buddy , sorry , connor , connor , carl or he started up a guiding business down there And yeah , they , yeah , the resource down there is incredible .
Yeah , so tell me a little bit about it for those of us here I mean we . I don't think anyone here experiences Canada geese in the way that you do , so if you wouldn't mind to walk people through , they're not from there . So what happened ?
How did this whole situation come about , where you can shoot them Literally if you want to , 365 days out of the year ?
Yeah , so . So basically way back in the day , the early 1900s , they were gifted to New Zealand by President Roosevelt . And then there's no predators , there's nothing over here , so they just went absolutely off the scale . So there's no coyotes or wolves or any , or there's no natural predators .
So basically the things just went absolutely crazy and the numbers are just just astronomical in some areas . But they used to be , they used to be a limit , they used to be you guys have game and fish and we have fishing game over here And they used to look after them . But what actually happened is they got so so far out of control .
The government took them off off them and put them in a in a different category . So they're not , they're not classes of pests , but almost , almost to that .
Yeah , almost almost a nuisance bird .
Yeah , nuisance bird . And then after that , probably about 20 years ago , the numbers got so high they just said you can shoot them anytime you want And there's no limit as well . So some goose goose shoots , that will go on your . you could shoot 300 , 350 for the day .
I mean , that's like late season snow goose here , but that's like a , that's world class . I mean , if you do that , then you might as well go ahead and quit while you're ahead , you know .
Yeah , that's it , but . but having said that you could , you could have days where you , the geese , don't turn up or whatever . And it's like you were saying before , instagram just looks amazing And and you know you can shoot hundreds of birds and whatever else , but I mean you can shoot a few .
you could shoot 20 or or 50 or whatever , or 10 , you know or none . So you still got to do the homework . and the guys down south , they scout heaps and they know where the birds are . They keep an eye on them all year because they live down there . So , yeah , that they've really got , really got it all sorted out .
So I mean you guys . You guys typically hunt geese in a dry field or along some smaller water from what it looks like , right ?
Yeah , mostly mostly dry fields , Some water . but yeah , mostly mostly crops , mostly .
Yeah , but they , they , they're coming from . You explained it to me at some point . They're coming from some type of bodies of water that are like in the mountains right Now . They come like down to the valley where the fields are in that right .
Yeah , they do So , a lot of them , a lot of them in the summer on big lakes , and they fly off the lakes and come up onto the fields where there's a lot of cropping that could be loose or grass , or maize or corn or or whatever .
So they really raid these crops and that's why the farmers don't like them , because there could be , there could be , there could be , you know , two or three thousand in a mob . But another thing as well was where you are , everything migrates and goes north or come south or whatever . The birds that we have are all resident birds .
So because they're residents , they're there all year . So they're hammering farms and crops and paddocks for the whole year , so farmers don't get a break . That's , that's , that's the deal here And that's why farmers hate them .
I mean , in America you might get a whole heap of geese coming in and they might raid the crops for a week or a couple of weeks or a few days , but in New Zealand they don't migrate , they don't go anywhere , so they're , so they're all resident birds . So it can make it harder to hunt them and probably easier to hunt them because you know their habits .
But that's , that's the main difference . There's no , because New Zealand's an island . There's nowhere for them to fly . They can't go anywhere .
Yeah , i remember the first time I learned about all of that . You told me a lot about it . And then I talked to my good friend , bill Willroth , who now has Dakota decoy .
But he came to New Zealand back when he had Bigfoot Bigfoot decoys And some people brought him over there And he said he I remember him telling me he said we put out like he shipped over a whole like crates of decoys and he's . They told him we don't need all that And they put out maybe a dozen and these geese had just never been hunted .
And he said we called Adam . He said at the end we weren't even getting in our layout blinds , we were just sitting up and just shooting them And he said his shoulder was worn out . He's so tired of dealing with Canada geese over there . But yeah , the whole not migrating thing I mean resident birds are they're a pain here , especially on golf courses .
They'll get on a golf course and just you know their poop is everywhere and they eat the grass and getting rid of them can definitely be a pain . So that's , that's wild And it's not only in the South I talked to . I've got a couple buddies , ron up at Rob , rob up in the North .
Island .
Yeah , rob , i'm going to have him on at some point , i hope Rob's big field trial guy over there . But he loves shooting geese and he had just really started getting into it when I met him . And he sends me he still sends me pictures of , just as you call him heaps of geese , just a pile up there , he loves shooting those things .
So it's both islands And I didn't know about the non-predator . So this is a huge difference between New Zealand and Australia . So Australia seems to have everything that can kill you .
That's it .
And you guys don't really have anything , huh .
We don't have no snakes , no poisonous spiders . Really . There's nothing that can harm you here , really .
Just people , wow , just the apex predator .
Yeah , they don't get here every time .
Yeah , but the people that I met in New Zealand were just some of the nicest , kindest , most hospitable people I think I've ever met . Everywhere I went , Yeah yeah , well , and so , without going too much down the rabbit hole of breeding styles with dogs , there's definitely some cultural difference in the two islands .
I have my thoughts on that , but I'd love to hear your thoughts just on the influences north and south . There's cultural differences here too . You've traveled here enough and I want to ask you about some of that .
People from , let's just say , new York , new Jersey , maryland , their culture is a little different than my folk down here in Mississippi and Arkansas and Tennessee . So North Island , south Island you're on the South Island , you're kind of a jack of all trades , you know people from everywhere .
¶ Cultural Differences in Hunting and Training
Yeah , culturally speaking , what do you see as some of the main differences , at least in the hunting world ?
Yeah , well , the South Island is , the population is really sparse . There's not a lot of people here , i'm not even sure It's like under a million and quite a big lands . So people there's not huge concentrations and most of the people are pretty much rural based . So they don't , they don't have that big city attitude or whatever .
But the North Island is different , yeah , and , and I think the North Island is an Auckland and some of the places there's some hustle and bustle and and people just have that big city attitude . But in the South Island , especially as you go down the South , life is pretty relaxed and pretty slow .
Yeah . Yeah , it's definitely similar to our sort of North and South , and the North Island to me felt like it had a much stronger British influence . Yeah , they were very . You know , the shoots I went to were , you know , british style pheasant shoots .
Yeah .
Yeah , and , and they had a large influence of British Labradors over there . One of my stud dogs , moose , has sired several leaders in New Zealand . His , his seamen was sent that way , which is crazy , because it's really difficult to get the dogs brought in right .
Yeah Yeah . That's a lot of money It cost you . Probably in New Zealand it would cost you 10 grand to get a dog here .
Just the , just the price . That's not the dog , That's just the all of the , the requirements , and there's a quarantine period , and which I understand . I mean they don't , it's an island , you know they can't have . I mean , look , they made me , they like pressure washed my waiters , you know , to make sure there's no , no , nothing .
That was going to get in the reverse .
Yeah , which is fine . I definitely understand that . So , dog wise , and I want to talk hunting some more too , but you're female , what's her name ?
Gess .
Yeah , jess . How old is she now ?
She's about four . She's about four .
So just a pup when I was over .
Yeah , A timid pup there .
You ? yeah , you were very concerned . You were asking me a lot of questions , You know , have you seen ? this Yeah , have you , yeah , and , and she had a . She was very timid , nervous , didn't show a lot of interest in really doing the work right . But what about now ? I mean , give us a breakdown of you . Are you hunting with her ? What's , what's she like ?
Yeah , yeah , as a four year old .
I do a lot of hunting with her . Now She's she was really eager to learn , she was eager to please And that was the biggest . That was the biggest thing I actually um had to do with a friend many years ago , probably three years ago , and he said I don't know what . So I really don't know what you're worried about with this dog .
This dog just wants to please you , you know , and that's it . And once we got that and she trusted me enough , she went really well And she's , since we've got , since we have another dog now Fion , she's the boss and and she's quite a stroppy dog . Now She's kind of taken on the big mama role and um , yeah , yeah she , she's a really good hunter .
You can send her and she'll just go and go and go . Um , of course , um , i looked at some stuff with on cornstone , uh , cornerstone gun dog . You introduced me to that when you were here .
So I looked at a lot of stuff and there was a lot of really good stuff on there that I wouldn't have thought of or , like , i've been training dogs for years but um , really , in the whole scheme of things , i don't really know a lot , so right , Yeah , i want to get into that .
Yeah , i appreciate you mentioning that And I knew that it was cool cause I told the guys , josh and Keith , i was like we've got , we've got a New Zealand guy , you know , we got someone down there and I told them and there were several people up North who were using cornerstone that I was not even aware of .
They still comment on some of our stuff Really really nice people , um . But in the North where I went um , there were some field trials There . There was like a heavy emphasis on gun dog training in that group of people that I was with .
Yeah .
And , um , I mean really just , I mean I can't emphasize enough , The whole trip was just one of the best times of my life . Um , but they were , they were more interested in almost the British style field trial work . Um and in the South , which is kind of why I asked about you guys's culture in the South .
it was really relaxed Like you guys were definitely like Hey , just let the dog go , get the duck , like if you got to throw a shotgun hole out there to uh get the dogs attention . that way everything was uh , i mean I think Callum had a dog .
Um , and Dave had a dog as well .
Yeah , and they weren't bad dogs , they just the the their standard of the dog work was . The bar was set low . It was just like Hey , it was really I would say casual , just not Yeah And um . But you really I felt like with with Jess , um started to kind of taking it to a new level .
I mean you , you looked at some drills We talked about some specific drills to get her to take cast , to get her to go back , and um , and I feel like you really were able to make some cool progress there , which is which is awesome .
Yeah , No , she she's good , she goes really well . I was actually I was very worried about that dog Um , but she , she's gone really well And I've done a lot of a lot of training with her . I haven't done a lot um in recent times , but um , no , she goes really well . Um , she , she's a , she's a really good dog Um .
On on my Instagram page a week or so ago I I posted something with her doing a retrieve on a black swan . She was just miles out and she just trusted me that there was something there . She , she couldn't see anything , but I just sent her and she went . Probably I don't know whatever , it was six or 700 meters or whatever . Yeah .
But , she was out of sight , you know . Um , so no , she , she goes good .
¶ Challenges of Training Independent Dogs
But um , i've got a younger dog , Fion , and uh , he's an English . Well , i both English dogs . Um , but he's , he's a male and um , he's a total buffet , he uh you've he's just a hot mess . He's just a hot mess . He's ever since we had him . He's always been a clown .
He would , you know , like he's pretty good now , but um , yeah , he would just come back with with a dummy in his mouth and like flip it up in the air and I would just want to kill him , but all I would do is just put him in the truck and we used to just come home . You know , i just just used to stop because I would just want to punch him .
Yeah , got to keep that , i know that , i know that feeling when they just especially refused to recall , refused to deliver , and you're like look , the best thing for me and you right now .
So we just in this whole thing before this train comes off the track But you know you were worried about Jess too And and she she grew up a lot , i think , and came around and and some of the dogs , especially some of the I mean your dogs are , you know , british field bred dogs And that's what I'm used to dealing with And they can be very slow to mature
, um , I've seen , i've seen some that mature quickly , but I've seen a lot that at 12 , 14 , 18 months old even , i'm thinking , i just don't know And then at two and a half , three or like this is a nice dog , you know , just took them . But what you said about Jess is , i think , something that's hard to a dog's desire to please .
You know that whole she just wants to please you . When you realize that and you were able to use that as the motivation , right , i mean , she probably went back 6 , 700 meters for a black swan because she wants to please you and she's learned . If Jeff says back , i'm just going to go right .
Yeah .
Yeah , that that's tougher when you have a dog who wants to work on their own , which sounds like your male , and I have a lot of those and and I have a lot that they have really good . So I always categorize drive in two different ways .
There's the drive the prey drive , drive to go get something , and then there's drive to please , right , yeah , it's very rare to have a dog who has a massive amount of both . My dog , red , the one that everybody , everybody loved red He's still around hunting with a friend of mine .
He's the only dog I've had that was like 100% of both , like massive drive to go , massive drive to please . The dogs that have a really big drive to please and enough drive to go , they can be really easy to train because they trust you , right , and the and the relationship is everything for them .
The dogs that have a really big drive to go but not a huge drive to please , they're more independent . They can be a challenge . You can do it for sure , you can get a lot out of them , but that's those are the dogs that you see like playing , keep away or throwing it up in the air and like if , if I don't bring it back to you .
I get to keep this , this whole game going , so why would I bring it back to you ? You know , like I'm I'm out here doing this and I'm at that age it can drive you up the wall , especially if you already have a dog that's doing the work , because then you're like forget it , I'll just hunt Jess , You just do your thing , you know whatever .
But maybe he'll grow out of it .
¶ Athletic Dogs and Duck Calling Adventures
He's an athletic dog . He's an athletic dog . Geez . I've never seen such an athletic dog . He would jump over the house . He's incredible Like he can jump . It's unbelievable how , how high he can jump and eat , how fast he can run . but the brain hasn't really caught up with the body . That's real .
I've got a , I've got a child that maybe that way He's a big boy . Yeah , yeah , no , no , as there's some days where I'm like you might look big but gosh , son , gotta catch up . Speaking of kids , your daughter is quite the duck caller . Yeah , yeah , i'd love for you to share a little bit of that . I want to hear from you .
I don't know a ton about your adventures in the USA . We've tried to meet up a few times . I remember I think it was last year you were possibly going to be in Texas and we were going to hunt , maybe at Falco . Yeah , i've got JD JD's on my list for guys for the podcast .
He's one of my best friends on the planet And , man , that's a what a beautiful place . Yeah , And would love to have you there at any point . Really want to take you hunting in the woods . I've talked to Connie about it . Yeah , i've talked to you About having you at Wild Wings .
I know he follows you on Instagram too , but tell us a little bit about and I'm going to get up and adjust , my light keeps flickering . I'm going to move it , but tell us a little bit about hunting in the USA , traveling in the USA , your daughter duck calls . What's your relationship there and how has that come about ?
I mean , it's been a while , but back up several years , your trips over here , and what did that look like ?
Yeah , so many years ago I met a guy over here . He came over for AVNX . His name is Mario Frendi . He's an awesome guy . So he was kind of my first contact in New Zealand sorry in America . And then around that time my good friend Hunter Murrow . He was into contest calling And my daughter started contest calling as well . They both got pretty good .
Hunter is an exceptional caller and Holly got very good as well , especially for her age And that kind of developed And all of it . The whole basis to our trips to America was the World Champs at Eastern Eastern Maryland .
So we used to plan our trips around November and then kind of spend a month and then we'd go to Oregon and Colorado and hunt different places in Maryland and whatever else . So that was the whole , but the calling thing was the whole basis of us traveling around .
So when you say worlds in Eastern you're not talking about worlds . I'm always at worlds in Stuttgart , which is Main Street calling .
Yeah .
You're talking about worlds .
Chainsaw calling That's the chain , yeah , yeah .
Wish is Yes , But they each have their place right , Yeah you're talking about World Duck meet . Yeah , yeah .
Meet Duck , The real deal Goose calling as well . So it's the World Goose Calling Championships And the live Goose team . Goose is a whole range of stuff . So Hunter used to do Goose and Duck and Holly used to just do duck calls but she used to drive me nuts because I love Goose And she would never pick up a Goose call really .
So kind of drive me nuts a little bit .
But what do you do ? She do . How did she fare coming over here blowing duck , calls and World Duck .
The first time she came over she was really young , like I'm talking , maybe 11 . And then the juniors . I think she got , i'm going to say , fourth or third , which is pretty good , because a lot of the boys were like 16 and really good . And then she came another time and got third , i think .
And then the next time she got a third or a fourth or something .
Yeah , so she plays . That's really awesome .
Yeah , yeah , yeah . She got in the finals and Hunter did as well . He's a really , really amazing caller . That's Hunter Murrow . He got second and some of the stuff , but I don't think they wanted us to win because we're Kiwis , you see . Yeah , yeah , yeah , that's damn Kiwis win .
National champions .
I mean from here .
Well so , and I met Holly when I was over and she's she's a sweetheart And I feel like I don't know what she's doing now at all , but she , it was cool to see that balance . It's rare to see the balance of women who they do love to hunt and they love every aspect of me .
She loved being out there , but she also had her nails done and was not afraid to be feminine , right . And I recently listened to Cameron Haynes podcast . He did with Eva Shachie and she talks about how tough it is to ride that line and how people either hate you for being one way or hate you for not being another way .
And part of this podcast for me has been really wanted to draw bridges , right . Bill , bring people together from different cultures and different appreciations and whatnot . And Holly was really cool to me because she definitely did that .
You know , she bridged that gap of Hey , i'm , i'm out here with a gun and I low boned gun and I'll blow a call and shoot a duck , and but I'm also , you know , i'm a girl and and don't mind being that way . So that's pretty cool . Call wise , tell me about season calls , and that that's I mean you guys .
I don't know how many call companies are in New Zealand , but season calls I know of that one , the only one I know of .
But it is , it's , we're , we're world famous in New Zealand , yeah .
Yeah .
Yeah , now there is a few call companies here . Everything is hard here because if you want to get to make it a call , or you want to get components or say , a call jig to make stuff , everything's hard . So you've got to , you know , get components from overseas or or do it yourself . It's kind of like it's not that easy .
But , um , season calls all we've ever done is duck calls . We've got a new range of them , got a call out called reckless . It's a , it's an awesome , awesome call of sold a whole heap of them actually , which is it's actually really cool because you can actually make a call . And it's the same as you were talking about this worldwide connection .
Like I can make a call in New Zealand , send it out , and there's people that buy it from all around the world , from America , from all around America , and there's there's even some people in Europe that are interested in calls . It's yeah , that that connection is is quite incredible actually .
And um , so many of the people that I've met in the States to do with waterfowling especially , um , it is so cool people that just down to earth and friendly and and honestly , my I mean people will have different ideas , but my idea of um , americans , um is right up there .
They're just so friendly , they've been so nice to me , um , and my family , um , yeah , it's , it's great , that's great .
That's awesome . I think for the most part , yes , i mean especially in this , um , yeah , the waterfowl culture I talked a little bit , i talked a little bit to Rageo about it , just some of the infighting and the drama that comes from it . But by and large , that is a small little corner of it , of the culture . By and large , just the nicest people .
I mean , if you're over here and then Stuttgart on a Saturday during December , january , and you go to R&T , you know everyone's fist pumping and get to know everybody and super kind And so , yeah , well , so , speaking of that , what are your plans on coming over here
¶ Hunting and Dog Training Discussion
? I mean , let me ask you this if you could come to the USA and hunt you know your top three places to go what would you want to do ?
Well , geez , that's a good question And that's a hard question because I like all types of waterfowl . I'd love to go to Alaska and shoot a King Ida .
But I mean that's a lot .
That's probably . Who knows how much that costs . I'd love to hunt the woods in Arkansas , green Timber . That'd be awesome . I love geese . That's my problem . That's my RQ . He's here , i don't know Somewhere with heaps of little geese . Because another thing too , i didn't probably explain very well is all we have is honkers .
We don't have the 11 subspecies , we don't have cacti and allusion and whatever . We just have honkers , that's it .
Just big , big candidates .
Yeah , they're all big mothers . So , yeah , yeah , yeah . So if we have anywhere with small geese , so maybe I don't know , texas , kansas , actually , i'd love to go to , i'd love to go to Cadillac Creek . Oh , shout out to Toby Brolin , yeah , yeah , so he looks like a cool dude , so I reckon there would be pretty cool Something like that .
Yeah , yeah , don't , don't really know , Yeah , really . Anyway , it's pretty cool , As long as I've got some dudes we're gonna work on it for this year .
We got to get you over . You said you're semi retired , so we got to say that about me , yeah .
I said see my retired , I didn't say retired .
Yes , it's the accent . Yeah Well , we need to get you over , for sure .
and see if we can make that . There it is , we just built a new lodge here .
You know we moved and the tornado almost knocked it down . But I tell people now when they're in the room I'm like this is EF2 tornado proof tried and proved us . But you know I'd love to have you here and travel around . I have to drive to hunt .
You know it's fun being here working dogs and Josh and Keith have some beautiful training grounds over toward Birmingham for the Cornerstone training members weekends and all that And that's really fun too . But we all have to travel a good bit . I love to hunt in Kansas and Oklahoma , it's my favorite .
But man Toby at Cadillac Creek , shout out to that guy for just totally going in on being himself . Right , i love that him ratio . I love guys that are like Hey , i'm authentic . You know I'm not going to try to be someone that I'm not . And I met Toby last year at Falco at the was a trip we do at the end of the year And it's all .
Everyone there is a believer and what's called purpose . And Toby came last year and man , we had a blast . He's , he's such a gem of a human being and the man can absolutely wreck a goose call . He knows how to do it . But the , the lessors are a lot of fun .
That's what we're usually targeting that that late season , february , you know , and speckle bellies are a lot of fun . The lessors over there I'm sure you've seen it That's a hard hunt for a dog . It's a lot more like snow geese , you know . They come in bunches and you might have a 14 to 20 bird rain out on a group and you may just do that three times .
So the dogs , you know you get a marker too , but mostly it's just running blind retrieves outside the decoys . But it's a lot of fun but very different . I don't get to go on a lot of big honker hunts .
You see a lot of them out and I was just in Colorado and got some clients in Wyoming and they're hunting is a lot more like what you're talking about The birds coming out from the mountains and hitting , hitting the fields , and they hunt a lot of pit blinds out there in those fields and big honkers , nasty birds , but no , that's , that's awesome , man , i
would , i would love to have you over this year and work dogs together and do some drills and return the favor . If you forget your waiters I'll carry you to the duck hole , you know .
I still have , i still have to carry you my Lord , yeah , yeah .
There it is , The whole trip . I'll never live it down . No , it was , it was . It was truly a pleasure to be over there with you and in New Zealand and man , I hope that you know maybe we'll work on some drills for your young What's the name of your young dog , Yon ?
No , it's fun . So it's actually . You know how they've all got . So . so the English , english labs , but they've got , and some , some of yours have to , they've got that Irish , but Irish . So fun , fun is Irish . It's F ? I O N N Fionn .
Fionn . I like it . It's strong . It's a good name . It's a strong name .
Yeah , it is It is Fionn I say that a lot when .
I'm chasing . That's a lesson there . You know , name your dog something that you're really comfortable yelling over and over , because you never know when you're going to need it . Man , we're . We have a 15 year old Springer spaniel and we've already planned on getting another dog when she passes away .
And the kids are in this huge debate right now over what the name of the new dog is going to be and , unbeknownst to them , my wife Bethany is going to name the dog . She's not going to let the kids name it because their names are like bubble gum star . You know , lord Vader , they have all sorts of crazy names . So well , i've enjoyed talking to you .
We're coming up on an hour . I told you I wouldn't take up your whole day . Yeah , we could . We could chat a long time , i know it . But , man , i appreciate your support . Honestly , it is very meaningful to me because you're on the other side of the world and it's it's not .
It's not a rare thing to receive an encouraging note from you or just to see you supporting things that we do , recommending Cornerstone , talking to people about dog training , that sort of stuff . I appreciate it from around the world and hopefully we won't go . I mean , i know we have plans to get together and COVID , covid really wrecked .
I don't want to get into that whole thing because you guys had it . We talked about lockdown , you guys were literally isolated on an island , but I think now that , now that the pandemic has been declared over , hopefully we can we can get together this season and and do this whole thing in person and hopefully shoot some , some ducks and some geese .
Yeah , we may , we may get to , we may get to Eastern Maryland or something at a pinch , or the states this year , possibly , possibly , we've got a lot going on . We started a new business and whatever else , but you know , i'd really really like to get over there . It's . It's really cool . I love the culture over there and it's real fast pace and it's here .
It's like everyone's dead and walking around like zombies . It's so slow , but it's relaxed , it's relaxed . Yeah it's definitely , definitely relaxed . But no , we'll , we'll just keep on going and see how it turns out from there .
Yeah , we'll tell people who are listening , who haven't heard of you . Instagram . you're on , there Was it Jeff Irvine . Jeff Irvine dot NZ And you're , jeff , is G E O F . Yeah , yeah , so .
Americans always say J off and it's just all this , all this G off .
I know I know a couple of Americans who spell it like you . In fact I mentioned one in the first podcast , jeff or Jeffrey English , the guy I bought my first spanyl from . He spells it like you . And then see season underscore calls on Instagram to check out you guys's calls And then just that , that , your page and that page .
If you're wanting to know , like , what's the epitome of waterfowling in New Zealand , your page and the season call page to me is it's . The photos and the videos are unparalleled . They're just awesome .
Some other good ones If anyone wants to hunt in New Zealand . There's a young guy I work with down south Conakalo . He is . He is Jeepers . I've just had a mental blank . He is . I always get his name wrong .
Jeepers That's a new one .
It's central south waterfowl . He started . He started guiding down there and he's doing a lot of specialist stuff with shovelers and black swans and pukekoes and some real cool stuff .
Oh , that's cool . Yeah , i actually robbed , took me to shoot a pukeko and a turkey , a different type of turkey .
Yeah , yeah , we call them . It's a joke , it's a blue pheasant .
Yeah , yeah , it's a blue pheasant . Yeah , it looks . It definitely looks that way . Yeah , it's my lord . There it is . So , yeah , connor is central south waterfowl , underscore NZ for New Zealand , for those of you who think you might want to go down . And yeah , his Instagram page is awesome too . He's got turkeys and everything on there . The it's cool
¶ International Waterfowl Hunting and Friendship
to go . I mean , look , you asked me before I came down do you want to go shoot mallards ? Do you want to go shoot Canada geese ? And I told you I want to go shoot something that I can't shoot in America . And that's exactly what we did And that's a that's an experience that I will never forget . I'll never forget cooking bacon .
You guys don't cook your bacon all the way . It's like floppy bacon And I have a video of you saying here's your crispy bacon , my lord .
We went for a hunt down there a year or so ago And there's a particular branch that you shot off down there . It's still there . Maybe , maybe you were shooting and you shot while the branches off .
I shot right through the tree . Now look , I'm used to hunting in the timber with my buddy . Connor , and if a branch is in the way , that's what the first shells for just blow that sucker out of the way and then off you go . Yeah , no , i love it .
Well , man , surely appreciate the conversation and the friendship , jeff , and look forward to some more of them and look forward to our folks hearing from you and learning a little bit about New Zealand and the waterfowl culture there .
And hopefully you guys have a good one And hopefully we get you over here this season and get to do a little bit of of hunting together .
Yeah , we have three weeks , I think in our duck season , to go . So , I'll have to get into it .
Yeah , finish strong man . Awesome to talk to you , jeff . Hope you have a good one . I appreciate you coming on .
Yeah , no worries , have a good one , big fellow .