Hey leader and welcome to episode number 322 of the L three leadership podcast, where we are obsessed with helping you grow to your maximum potential and to maximize the impact of your leadership. My name is Doug Smith and I am your host. And today's episode is brought to you by my friends at Barrett tongue advisors. If you're new to the podcast, welcome, I'm so glad that you're here.
And I hope that you enjoy our content and become a subscriber, know that you can also watch all of our episodes over on our YouTube channel. So make sure you're subscribed there as well. And if you've been listening to the podcast for a while , thank you so much . And if it's made an impact on your life, it would mean the world. To me.
If you would leave us a rating and review on apple podcast or Spotify or whatever app you listen to podcast through, that really does help us to grow our audience and reach more leaders. So thank you in advance for that. And every week I like to highlight one of your reviews and today I'll highlight family 70 twos. They said this, it takes me 45 minutes to drive to work. And I listen to the L three leadership podcast, the interviews and Doug provide life changing content.
While the content may sound practical, it's been the evidence of application that supports continued listening well , family way to go in implementing what you listen to. And thank you so much for the kind review. Well , while leader in today's episode, you'll hear my conversation with Ken Coleman. This was Ken's fourth time on the podcast. It's always a joy to have him.
He really actually changed my life, which will hear me talk a little bit about in the beginning of our conversation, but he gave me feedback on one of the , the episodes he was on previously, that literally changed the way that I interviewed and approached leaders. And I'm forever grateful for him for that. But for those who may be unfamiliar with Ken, let me just tell you a little bit about him. Ken is America's career coach.
He's the number one national bestselling author of the proximity principle and from paycheck to purpose. He's also the host of the Ken Coleman show. Ken helps people discover what they were born to do and provides practical steps to make their dream job a reality. The Ken Coleman show is a nationally syndicated caller driven show that helps listeners who are searching for something more out of their career. And in today's conversation with Ken, you'll hear Ken talk about the great resignation.
We talk a lot about his new book from paycheck to purpose, and we take him through some of the lightning round questions, which I've made up since the last time that I had him on the show. So you're gonna love this interview, but before we dive into it, just a few announcements. This episode of the L three leadership podcast is sponsored by bar tongue advisors, the financial advisors at bar tongue advisors, help educate and empower clients to make informed financial decisions.
You can find out how bar tongue advisors can help you develop a customized financial plan for your financial future by visiting their website@beartongueadvisors.com . That's B E R a T U N G advisors.com , securities and investment products and services offered through LPL financial member, FINRA, and S I P C bear tongue advisors, LPL financial, and L three leadership are separate entities. I also wanna thank our sponsor.
He jewelers their jeweler by my friend and mentor John Heney, my wife, Laura , and I got our engagement and wedding rings through he jewelers. And we had a wonderful experience and not only do they have great jewelry, but they also invest in people. In fact, for every couple that comes into their store engage , they give them a book to help them prepare for marriage. And we just love that.
So if you're in need of a good jeweler, check out Henry jewelers.com and with all that being said, let's dive right in. Here's my conversation with Ken Coleman, Ken Coleman. It's great to be with you again. Uh , thank you for jumping on the show. This is the third time. Um, and I always remind you just in case you forget, but the first time we interviewed , uh , I just asked for your candid feedback on just my interview skills, where I could do better.
And I was expressing some issues I was having. And , uh, and man, you just exposed some insecurities that I need to overcome. And , uh , and that, that conversation was ultimately a catalyst of me developing a lot of confidence, becoming much better at this. And, and literally I talk about it to a lot of people everywhere I go. So I'm just forever grateful for, for you willing to speak into my life and make, make this podcast better. And everyone that we influence better.
So thank you, my friend really appreciate you.
Well, thank you. And I I'll just, you know, give you some love that. Uh , I remember you asking me that and, and I either asked you, or I didn't ask you whether or not you really wanted me to tell you the truth and , uh , but I , I gave you real feedback and it was real and raw and, and designed to help you and you took it. And , uh, and I , I admire that. I think , uh , too few people are willing to get real honest feedback.
And , uh, so that's something I've always admired about you and , uh, good to see you again.
Yeah. Likewise, Hey, and even fewer willing to give it so kudos to you for willing be willing to go there. Um , well , I'll tell you
Why . There's very few things I enjoy giving more than my opinion. Isn't that true about
yeah. Or speaking of your opinion, you know, it's been two years and you are now America's career coach. Mm . Uh , I'm just curious, you know, personally on a personal level or leadership level, how have you grown in the last two years? What have you been learning?
Well, that's a big question. You know, I don't know that I'm adequately able to sit here right now and tell you all, all the places , um , that I have grown, because I , I think I'm in a position where the growth is in some, some ways incremental , uh, and, and my minutia , uh , and other ways it's, it's enormous. Um , I would just say that in areas of growth for me, certainly, you know, I'm , uh , uh , approaching nearly 6,000 phone calls on the air live.
I mean, that's a tremendous , uh , area of growth to where you have to coach people quickly, you know, because you're confined by radio and YouTube and it's live. And so it's not a deep dive hour coaching session. So certainly grown in my ability to listen well, to read people and , and I'm talking to people over the phone, so I don't have the added benefit of seeing their face. So that's an area of tremendous growth. There's no question about that.
Just, you know, a function of, you know, cuts at the plate and, and , and doing it under pressure. You know , uh , that's an area , uh , you know, raising teenagers, I've got a 13 of 14 and a 16 , uh, I've grown as a , as a man because of the father responsibilities that I have and, and , uh , learning how awful I really am at it.
And it , you know, being a dad is a contact sport, you know, it's , uh , you gotta learn as you go, you know, the , the greatest books on fatherhood out there , uh , there's no manual for the day and day on that , same, same as true of mother.
So that's an area, you know, I've written , uh , another book created a , an entire methodology, a , an assessment that I spent two years working on and writing from scratch, certainly growth because of the, the failure and the testing that you have to embrace to be able to create a product that actually makes it to the marketplace and work .
So certainly those are some areas that come to mind as some areas where I've had to grow and growing your ability to understand problems, come up with solutions, understanding the human condition, you know, that's , uh , that's a day in day out growth process.
Yeah. I was listening , uh , Carrie you off recently interviewed Dave and asked him a question. I think always wanted to ask. He said, you know , how do you, how do you just stay passionate about answering the same questions over and over again, over 30 years? And, you know, you said you're up to 6,000 calls. I'm sure you're seeing a lot of patterns emerge.
And obviously you speak to that in the book that we'll go through, but what keeps you passionate at day to day to keep answering and , and helping people with their career?
Yeah. Well, it's pretty simple. It's the methodology that I teach you are on purpose. You are in your sweet spot professionally when you use what you do best, that's your talent to do work. You love that's your passion to produce results that matter to you. That's your mission. So no matter how many times I hear the same phone call and it is the same , uh , keep in mind, I am engaged in work in that moment that I'm good at. And so I'm proficient. So it's, it's not herky jerky.
I'm not frustrated in the moment I'm , I'm able to, to listen and discern very quickly. I'm able to formulate thoughts quickly. I'm able to coach effectively. These are talents of mine. And , and to be honest with you, I don't try really hard. That's, that's the idea of a talent , uh , but put an algebra problem in front of me and you're gonna see smoke, come out my ears. uh , so that's the talent piece. And then I love coaching people.
There's nothing, I enjoy more , uh , on a , uh , professional level than coaching people. The greatest joy I've had, my personal life is coaching. My kids. I love coaching. And coaching is about transformation. Coaching is, is always going to be, and always will be about transformation to take someone from here to here, that's transformation. They are transforming. That is the root word, right? So they are reforming. And , uh , that's exciting to me.
I always love the challenge of giving someone what they need in that moment. That little bit of an edge, that little bit of a push, that little bit of encouragement. And then finally the mission piece is , is I'm. I am totally juiced by , uh , seeing transformation in that person's life, right? And so the result is they're gonna transform and they're gonna change their actions. They're gonna change their goals. They're gonna change their vision. They're gonna change their lot in life.
They're gonna change other people's lives. So when you do that every day , it doesn't matter , um, about the monotonous side of it, because in some ways, while the calls are very similar, we do have a new person there every time. And we're meeting that person where they are. So that's how you don't lose the juice for that.
So good. And like I said, in the beginning of the show, you know, you did that for me. So thanks for having the passion to , to coach me as well. Um, I'm , you know, being the career coach that you are, you're getting an 80,000 foot view of what's going on in our nation and where in the middle of what everyone's calling the great resignation. I'm just curious. What are you seeing with the great re resignation? Why do you think this is happening?
Well, I think there's two major reasons. One is , uh , what we had was the pandemic that shifted the world. It worked dramatically, specifically the pandemic. This is kind of shocking for folks until you look at the dating, you go, oh , okay. That makes sense. But what we saw coming out of the pandemic were a huge creation of jobs. The economy did not retract on jobs. It actually expanded. So you had more jobs created and I'll kinda give you kind of a two major areas.
We saw a lot of new jobs created in healthcare , uh , or in support roles because everything went home, everything went remote. So you saw an explosion in technology. Jobs saw an explosion in healthcare jobs, just as two examples. And you saw a lot of people start their own businesses. They could work from home. The , the environment was right for that. And when people said, okay, I'm gonna go home. And in some ways I was furloughed. So I gotta come up with something.
Or in other ways I was sitting home and I had some time on my hands and I'm gonna start my own side hustle. So we've seen, we've seen a real increase in small business or startups , entrepreneurial startups . We're seeing that in the filings . So that's just three quick examples, which makes up millions of jobs right there. And so what happened was we came out of the , or depending on who you are or how you vote, whether we've come outta the pandemic or not.
The point is, is we began to move from 2020 to 2021. And now here we are in 2022 and largely thing we can point to 20, 21 on this. And what happened was there were more jobs available, still are than there were people who were unemployed. So what is that? This is supply demand, same thing with the housing market. So when you have more houses available, then you have buyers home prices drop . The reason real estate is so hot is because you had buyers out there and not as many houses. Okay .
And so it just, so it just ratchets up. So you had a , a bit of an arms race , uh , to use an old 1980s, kind of a geopolitical term where you had companies competing for talent. Come over here, come over here, come over here. And so what happens is when you're trying to find talent, so what does a company do when they're going, we've got jobs we need to hire for, but we don't have anybody who's unemployed. They start sweetening the pot.
So we saw target Walmart lead the way by taking their minimum wage to 15, 17, $20 an hour, start to offer college tuition for free. So what happened was, is the big attraction became the thing, right? Woohoo, look at us over here. Look at us over here. And then you got people who aren't engaged and they're going, wait a second. I haven't been treated like I wanna be treated. I don't see a future.
I don't see a better life as a result of working for company X, Y , Z , but I got company ABC's willing gimme a 25% bump plus plus plus. And so they just went, I'm going over here. And so then we began to see a game of musical chairs. And so since August of 2021 , um , you are seeing nearly 30 million people have changed jobs. So that's one factor. And in the major factor, right, it was about money. I want mine, I wanna get mine while I can get mine.
But I will tell you, there's a smaller group who are moving on because of what I teach every day , which they realize that the pandemic made them face their mortality. It made them face change. Like they'd never faced before. Remember there was a point where pretty much everybody in the country just went home school, kids, mom, and dad, everybody home. Well, we humans don't like change Doug. We just don't most of us don't. And so this was a massive amount of life change that was forced upon us.
And so when you are forced to do something that you would not normally do in this case, change, you start going, what other parts of my life do I want to change? And I do think a large portion of this it's the second portion. Uh , they weren't chasing a paycheck. They were chasing purpose. They were chasing meaning,
Which is the title of your new book, paycheck to purpose. . Um ,
So funny how that works .
So , so I want you to talk to two, two types of people facing the issues that are coming outta their great recognition . One is leaders and companies, right? Mm-hmm , , it's hard to , to retain and attract great talent.
So what advice would you have for, for people who are recruiting and I'm curious, have you seen, has there been any issues at Ramsey as well of , of trying to retain and recruit great talent in the middle of this and what can companies do to not only sweeten the pop, but actually create cultures worth, worth coming to?
Yeah. So if your game, as a leader is to just try to out, attract your competition, you're not gonna do anything for retention. You will attract some people and they will come to you, but they won't stay with you. So understanding , uh , I'm gonna give you kind of a bumper sticker that leaders need to understand, and it'll help with the context of how you've gotta be driving engagement, which will lead to greater retention and greater pro productivity.
First and foremost, understand this is a leader. You are not offering people a good job. You think you are. And that's how you talk about it. People aren't looking for a better job. You think they are. And that's how you talk to 'em about it. I would suggest to you that even those people that are job seekers don't even realize what they're actually looking for, but I'm gonna tell you what it is. They're not looking for a better job. They're looking for a better life.
All of the data shows that people will stay in a place where they feel like there is a ladder for growth, a ladder for opportunity to grow professionally, right? Which means they're growing personally and they're growing financially.
So I think we all inherently understand this, but, but if you , if you really understand that, that the secret to attracting and retaining good people and talent is you gotta understand that, that I, as a leader, when I offer somebody an opportunity to come work for me, what I am really offering them is not a job, not a better job, but a better life, because it is their income that they inherently are aware of that allows them to achieve their dreams.
Income is inextricably tied to anything in their life that they wanna make better. So we gotta understand that. So, so we first start there. Then we look at , um , I , I studied galls , uh , 2019 deep dive survey on engagement. I've just poured through it. And there are three main takeaways. I really believe as it relates to what a human needs from work. And you gotta understand these primary needs. And as a leader, you're gonna have to meet them.
So the first is a desire for meaning and purpose in their work. Second is a desire to be recognized for their unique contribution. And third, they desire to have a relationship with their leader. I'll say that again, because I think you gotta understand that. I mean, the data is, is it is , uh , indisputable. There are human needs at work. I need to see meaning and purpose in my work. I need to see that this is unique for me, that I am in my unique role. And I, I can see that I'm doing work.
I'm good at, I can see that I'm doing work. I love, I can see that I'm creating a result that matters to me. Secondly, I need to be recognized for my unique contribution. Hey, Ken, tell you something, man, you're really talented in this area. You got a gift here. You're doing a great job. You're making a difference. And then third, I need a relationship with my leader. I need to know that my leader cares freeing . Now we're not talking about hanging out, going to bars.
Uh , we're not talking about that kind of relationship. We don't have to be best buddies. We're not talking about BFFs. But what we are saying is is that we need a relationship. What I would call a mentor or coach relationship with our leader. And what that means is I know that if you think about a great coach, I played sports growing up. I love sports. I think sports, the greatest classroom in life. You know that about me, Doug. I'm, I'm a sports man , but I'm gonna tell you the great coaches .
You know, that in my life had a great impact on me. I knew that they not only cared about me, but they showed that they cared about me because they leaned in to instruct me and helped me do better. They, they, they challenged me to be my best. Once they showed me how to be better. And then they helped me accountable to it. And that's what I mean.
When, when , when , when we know that we see that they want a relationship with their leader, their leader cares about them and is invested in them doing better. So we start there. So as a leader, I mean, boom, out of the gate, am I meeting those human needs for the people that I lead? If the answer is no, you better fix it. Or there going to leave you, I'm just telling they're gonna leave you. And so that's what we need to understand. And we lead that way.
And , uh , here's what I found when we take care of the people we have by meeting those three primary needs. We'll never have to worry about getting the people we need because those people become your ambassadors to say, Hey, come on over here. The water is real nice.
Um , how long have you been at Ramsey now?
Um, June will be eight years.
Wow. That's amazing. I mean, obviously you guys do a thousand things that make your culture special, but does anything stand out? It may just be meeting those three things that you talked about, but what have you learned at Ramsey that, that enables your organization retain such great talent? I think you have what a thousand plus employees growing.
Yeah. About 1100 plus, you know, I could do a , I could say a million things. I'll just list a couple that we do very, very well. Um , we do a great job at sharing the values of this organization, why we do what we do, the people that we exist to serve. And so for the people that stay with us, it's in large part that they have a direct values connection to that. We're in the business of hope, through practical, you know, solutions or education or resources that help people transform their lives.
Um , another thing that we do very, very well is we reward people. Well, we, we give people a path to growth. I mean, we have people that are executives here that started out as executive assistants . It's a wonderful track record. So those are three things that stick out.
Yeah. So we talked to the leaders. I , I want you to also talk to the people you talk to every day , maybe you wrote this book called from paycheck to purpose, and maybe people are listening to this and saying, Hey, I'm not one of those 30 million people who've changed their jobs. But I would sure like to be, you wrote this book paycheck to purpose, you know, why do you write it? And what do you want those people to get out of it?
Well, in any area of your life, if you are gonna transform your life. So if you wanna transform your marriage, you wanna transform your, your physical life. Uh , you want to change your nutrition, your eating people need a path. Transformation doesn't happen absent of a clear path. People need to see how can I go from here? If we have a gap in our life, how do we go from here across this chasm, into this desired future?
So realizing that and having a model like Dave Ramsey, who came up with seven baby steps, you know, to help people achieve financial peace. I set out to create my own clear path. And we , I had came up with six stages, like a stage of a race, a run. Cause I think that's the journey. And , uh , to , to discover and do what you were created to do in your work. Based on the premise that I believe every man and woman was created to work and they were created to do unique work.
In other words, you were created to fill a unique role. You were needed, you must do it. Somebody out there needs you to be the best version of you. So then how do we go about figuring that out? Cuz it's the age old question, you know, there's two things you never have to teach a human. I'm sure there's more than this, but there are two that stick out. Number one, you don't have to teach a kid to say, no, they just say no one day defiantly.
And then you don't have to teach a person to wonder, why am I here? What should I do in my life? That just is inherent to who we are. So, but it's an intimidating question. So I wanted to create a clear path.
And so as you know, worked on it for a year and a half, came up with six stages and one of our executive board members when I was bouncing it off of and gave me the seventh and final stage, the seventh stages are, get clear on how I'm uniquely put together, get clear on the kind of work that'll fire me up. Get clear on the results that I want to contribute to the world. That's stage one, stage two, once I'm clear, I gotta get qualified. I gotta get the ticket to the dance.
And uh , stage three is while I'm getting qualified, I can be getting connected because connections are the gasoline. They are the fuel for progress. Connections are how I get, where I want to go. That's where opportunities live is on the other side of a connection stage four is after all those connections are gonna lead me to some opportunities where I say, yes, I step in the door, that's get started. Stage four. Once I'm in. Now I'm trying to climb the ladder.
That's stage five, get promoted, and then I'm gonna keep getting promoted probably the longest , uh , stage in the seven stages. And eventually I step into the dream job stage six. But when I get to the dream job, the top of the mountain, do I check out and go find a hammock and sip sun tea for the rest of my time. And that's where that seventh stage comes in. Give yourself away. I'm now working for legacy, not for income. It's all about impact.
Uh, sir, Edmond Hillary, when he got to the top of Mount Everest, the first man to do so. It was only moments after he took pictures with his climbing partner at the Sherpa , uh, that he saw another mountain range that he identified. He wanted to climb. He then went on to be the first man to go to the north pole in the south pole. Wow . So you know, interesting about these six stages, Doug, they're all going up and when we get to the top and stage six, we're still there.
But notice our view has been vertical in nature, but now when we're on top, our view changes and we begin to see the expansive vision that we didn't previously have. Cuz now we had a vision to get to the top when get to the top of the vision changes. So that's a quick nutshell of what the book is about. It's very practical and it allows somebody, I believe , uh , no matter who you are, where you're from, to be able to answer the question, what should I do in my life and how do I get there?
And then how do I give myself away through legacy of my unique combination?
Yeah. I heard you make a statement that, you know, a lot of people would rather be miserable than uncomfortable. And I think anyone who wants to start to take this journey from paycheck to purpose is gonna require some it's gonna require you to be uncomfortable. Can you talk about that journey cuz how many people just stay stuck and miserable for years and years and years and then wast their entire life. Never pursuing purpose.
Any , any advice for people who may just fear that, that uncomfortableness?
Yeah. I mean go , uh , do the research. There are several websites. You can probably find 10 pages on Google of lists from nurses in hospice care. And what they've heard from patients who are days, hours away from death and what they regret and on every list, I didn't do what I wanted to do. I didn't go for it professionally. It's always on the list. And so for that person, I can tell you that it is fear and doubt and pride that are, that are holding you back. It's a combination of all three.
There may be one of those enemies of progress that are more dominant, but you have to decide, do you want to get to the end of your life and reminisce on the journey? Cuz if I find out today I got six hours left, I'm gonna tell you something. We're gonna have a party at my house. And before we cry, we're gonna laugh. We're gonna high five . We're gonna celebrate some amazing things that I've been able to do. Uh , and I don't say that arrogant .
I say that that's God's blessing in his favor, but I mean, we're gonna celebrate, I can't believe I got to do this and do this. And if remember when I started out here, I can't believe we're here and then we'll cry and we'll snot over each other and hug and kiss and, and talk relations. But I mean, do you wanna get to the, I mean, if , if we all had that magical kind of we're 85, 90 years old, we're gathered around with family . I wanna reminisce. I don't wanna regret. So we gotta confront that.
And here's the deal. If you are, if you would rather deal with all of the frustration and misery and coping that you're dealing with, as opposed to being uncomfortable, put yourself out there to know that you're gonna fail to know that you're gonna get rejected, to know that you're gonna have to come to grip with your insecurity. I get it's all, it's all hard.
Um, but I'm reminded of Teddy Roosevelt, one of the greatest paragraphs in the history of paragraphs , uh , it's now known as the man in the arena speech, but it was a paragraph. It was just a part of a much bigger speech. But you know, he talks about those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat. And I mean only just , I mean he just describes it so beautifully. I don't wanna be a cold and timid soul who knows neither victory or defeat.
I, I don't wanna live life in the bleachers.
Yeah. Sorry . You mentioned reminiscing about your life. I was like, what if Ken had six hours left, but it was fun watching you the other day. I think you posted on coach K's last game. Just reminiscing. About the time you got to interview him, how was , how was watching coach K and his career if he doesn't come back?
Like that maybe . Yeah. Well that's a , that's a moment that I would reminisce about because of the way that that happened. I never interviewed anybody before in my life. I wrote the interview. Wow . For a , a well known broadcaster to do it. He couldn't do it and I was next man up. And next thing you know, I'm sitting across from one of the greatest coaches of all time. I mean, I remember that day, like it was yesterday. I was like, what in the crap am I doing here? um, I was terribly nervous.
Um, so I mean, that's just one story that I look back on and go had I not raised my hand, you know, and said , Hey, I can do it. Uh , or if they said you willing to do it. And I said , uh , I don't know. I don't know what if I, what if I get nervous and I'm club in front of coach K I mean seriously, what if I had done that? Yeah . So as I watched him do a Swan song , you know, I thought back to that day, the compliment that he gave me at the time that gave me so much confidence to move forward.
Uh, he, four years later hadn't talked to him in four years. I emailed his assistant outta the blue. She remembered me, told me that she would ask coach if he would endorse my first book. One question he did gave me an unbelievable endorsement called me one of the best interviews in the country. I mean, I thought of that. I thought what? I mean, I love the guy cuz of what he's done for me and, and uh , just a small little moment.
Um , but yeah, that's one of those things where you watch all the honor for him and I have my own story. Not many people can say they spent an hour and a half with coach K . Yeah . Um, and uh, so that , that was really fun.
Yeah. I wanna go back to, you talked about promotion. I thought it was interesting. You said, you know, at , at Rams you've had S executive assistants start out and now they're on the executive team. Uh , what do you talk about in the book and what have you seen at Ramsey over the course of your career? When it comes to people getting promoted, how can people stand out? How can people start to move up in their company?
Well, in the book, stage five is get promoted and I have two chapters in there. One chapter, we unpack the three things you need to do to get promoted. And then the second chapter within that stage five is the five things you need to be becoming. So we've got doing and becoming, so I'm gonna unpack all that right now. I'll tease that , um, the five qualities, I'll say this, the five qualities that we unpack in the book, you can be a zero and go to 10 on all of those.
So go get the book, check that out because you can truly become very promotable by developing those character qualities. Those are in the book first chapter in stage five. I'll just focus on that three things to do. That's gonna always allow you to get promoted. Number one, know your role. Number two, accept your role. Number three, maximize your role. You've heard me talk about this before. I think , uh , it's why you're smiling.
Uh , but this is, this is, this is, this is just basic fundamentals, how to win the now so you can get the next know my role is I'm very clear on what my leader expects of me and I know exactly what they expect of me. And so I know what a win looks like. So that's clarity. Many people, you would be surprised how many people take a job and they, they're not really clear what their leader expects, cuz the leader didn't do a good job of clearly defining it.
So this will help you win sometimes by leading up. So know your role is clarity, except your role is attitude. The human condition. It's just who we are. Uh , we long for progress. And so man, we could , we could wanna be somewhere so bad and we'd get there. And then within six stinking minutes, we're thinking about the next promotion. It's just who we are. And what we gotta realize is that, you know, six months ago we had chew our right arm off for this role to get in. Now we're in.
So we won't have an attitude of gratitude. I'm in, I'm on the bus. I wanted to be on this bus. I'm grateful. I'm here. I'm not done. I'm not stuck or relegated here, but right now this is where I am and I need to crush it. So it's an attitude of gratitude. And then the third element is the third thing you gotta be doing is , uh , maximizing your role. Now that you're clear on what a win looks like and you're grateful for it, we wanna crush it.
We wanna go way above and beyond what is expected of me. I'm coming early, I'm staying late. I'm helping teammates out when they didn't ask for it. I'm serving my leader in ways that they didn't expect or asked for I'm going above and beyond to where they're going, man, we expected this is Doug, but Doug has just shown himself so much more valuable. Um , and so that's maximize your role. So when I know my role, accept my role and maximize my role, I'm gonna have the opportunity for the next.
It will present itself to me because people just will say, Hey, you crushed it here. Uh , we we're gonna give you more. And we see this throughout sports business, all walks of life, where somebody has come in and they were, they got clear on what the opportunity was and what was expected of them . They were thankful just for that. They didn't just take and go, well, I'll take it. But you know, I'd rather be doing this.
And then they, they gave everything they had, they put way more into it as a result. Um, they absolutely blew up. You know, one of my favorite examples of this is, is Julian Edelman for the Newing England Patriots. You know, he came in the league, small quarterback, small college, you know, and his only chance to make the team was as a backup wide receiver. And I'm telling you , he doesn't know this framework, but I'm telling you, that's what he did. He's like, all right .
The only chance I got to make this team is as a backup wide receiver and special teams. So he is very clear. This is what we need from you. All right . But what people don't know is is that his second, the summer after his first season, he found out that Tom Brady was spending the off season in Newport beach, California. And he found out what street he was on. He didn't know the house, but he went and rented a house and turned out it was two houses down.
He just said, I'm gonna go to Newport and find a way to run it to Tom Brady. And he did. And he is like, Hey, I'm here. And Brady's like, okay. And he became a part of his workouts. And Tom Brady began throwing to Julian Edelman and he goes on to , he will be a hall of Famer. So that's the example of what I'm talking about.
Wow. You also mentioned you created an assessment that people can take. Can you talk about that and where people can?
Yeah. So I mentioned get clear was the first stage in the book and it's the all important stage. This is how we figure out what mountaintops we can climb or want to climb. And so in the book we do unpack how to get clear.
And that is to be very aware of what you do, best talent, that's hard skills and soft skills to be very aware of what kind of work you love to do a task, a function, a role, and to be very aware of what motivates you, which is results that you want to see when you think about the person that gets up at 5:00 AM to run. They're not doing that cuz their parents told 'em to not when they're adults they're doing it. Cuz they see a benefit, a result on the other end of that discipline workout.
So they are naturally motivated. So talent plus passion plus mission equals purpose. We unveil that in the book, but the assessment allows a person who's like, not quite sure what is my professional purpose? What's my sweet spot. If you will. And so the assessment is about a 20, 25 minute assessment. That'll give you a very detailed report on all three of those areas.
So self-awareness, and then we plug in the answers, your top three talent, top three passions and primary mission into a purpose sentence. And so you can see your purpose statement, you're going, oh. And so you can see as long as I'm using what I do best to do work. I love to produce results that matter to me, that's talent, passion, mission. I use what I do best to do work. I love to produce results that matter to me when I do that, I'm on purpose.
And I can see in the world of work multiple jobs and or career paths that keep me in my sweet spot to where I'm being my best. So that assessment's called the get clear career assessment. Uh , it's 30 bucks . We've had tens of thousands of people take it. It's going bananas. Uh , we also have one for leaders to use with employees from an engagement standpoint. If you feel like you've got somebody you're leading and it's not , there's something's off. We created a version of that assessment.
That's not designed to get them necessarily figure out what job they want, but for you to be able to go what's missing and you find out, do I have a seat on the bus for this person? If I don't, we want 'em to leave, but we're not gonna be ugly about it. But then they see, oh, there's not a spot for me here. And we, then we know how to hire. And uh , so this, this methodology is , um , is really the work of my life and very excited about it.
And , and so the get clear assessment is , uh , at Ken coleman.com .
Yeah. I'm include links to all that. And the show knows . And thank you for giving your life to, to helping people throughout their career. Uh , I wanna dive into the lightning round. I think we went through it last time, but I added a bunch of questions I thought would be fun to ask you. Okay. Um, what's the best advice you've ever received and who gave it to you?
Your time will come? My dad. Ooh .
Wow. So good. If you could put a quote on a billboard for everyone to read, what would it say?
You matter, you have what it takes press on
Best purchase you've made in the last year for a hundred dollars or less.
Oh, I think I got a great pair of vans for about 95 bucks. so I'm gonna have to save my vans. That's a tough one, man . Under the a hundred dollars through me . Cause I make so many great less than $100 purchases. It's either that or a bottle of bourbon. I'm not sure.
Nice. Um , in the last two years, has a book stood out to you that you've read that made a big impact in your life?
Uh, yeah. I read so much. Um, let's see, this is supposed to be lightning around and me picking a book that, that , um , is so hard . I read so many books. Um , voices of the heart chip died.
Okay. Um , I asked you this last time, but what's your go-to podcast right now. What's your last time? It was the herd, which actually you turned me onto now. I'm a big call is a co coward, man. I love him. Yeah . So thank you for that recommendation. Any, any new ones? Yeah .
Yeah. I gotta tell you . It is , uh , it's a guilty pleasure. It is just a fun RO it just makes me laugh. It is , uh , uh , with Jason Bateman and will Arnett and Sean Hayes . Um , and it is called, what is the name of that podcast? It's got a , uh , silly name to it. Uh, hold on. Smartless
Smartless
Smartless it's those three guys. And uh , they always invite one of 'em has to invite a celebrity and they do it all via video. And so the other two don't know who the guest is until they pop on the screen. And it's just a fabulous conversa there there's just three. There's just three goofballs that all know each other in LA it's it's it doesn't have a whole lot of redeeming value other than entertainment.
uh , what's your biggest leadership at peeve?
Um , I would say my number one leadership pet peeve. Boy. There's a lot of them .
You can name a few if they're quick.
Okay. I'll tell you what drives me nuts is , uh , is , uh , uh , leaders who , um, are unaware. They consistently showcase things and put themselves in places of weakness and it's like, everybody else is cringing and they have no clue. So the, the , the , the unselfaware leader is my number one pet peeve, because it's not hard to become self-aware it hurts, but it's not hard .
Wow. You guys spent time with some many great leaders. You're , you're one of the top interviewers in the country. I'm curious, you know, when you get to share a meal with someone at a conference or, you know, a high level leader, do , would you have a go to question or two that you always come with?
Yeah. Uh , without a doubt, my favorite one is now this is after we've broken the ice. So I don't want people think I lead with this one. Right. But if I'm having dinner with somebody of influence, I'm working to a place where I can go, what are you most challenged by right now?
Hmm . What are you most challenged by right now?
Uh, patience.
around anything specific or just in general?
Um, my work, I, I have a very clear vision. I've worked a long time to get here. We've had some really great success and I want, I want this thing to there . There's a couple areas where I wanna see some, some kerosene poured on top of the fire and the reality . And I wanna see some results on some things. I wanna try some new things and there's just a process. You can't just do that all the time. And so I'm so excited. I've never been more fired up at any point in my professional life.
I'm not kidding, but learning to, to , to , you know, it's like, it's , you just gotta be patient. I mean, I gotta keep showing up. You know, I gotta keep showing up. I gotta keep showing up, gotta keep showing up. And I mean, I've been doing this for coming up on five years as a personality, trying to be a thought leader. So I , I really wrestle with that. And I'm always challenged to, to know when, when to push and when to pull back.
And what I mean by pull back is emotionally go, Hey, I'm doing what it takes. It's gonna take some time. You know, it's just hard for me.
Hmm . What are one or two things you've done? Or if you have a bucket list, maybe crossed off your bucket list that you think everything you think everyone should experience before they die.
Well , everybody should play pebble beach once. Great golf course in the world. Um , okay. How many do you need from me? Just one. Is that one? Good
Enough? One's great. Do you have another one that comes to mind? I'm always just added my list.
Uh , you know, everybody needs to take in one beautiful sunset on the beach. That's pretty awesome.
Yeah.
Is that cheesy? Sam? very cheesy. She would like you to strike that. I don't know how a pebble get
You . What what's , what's left on your , your bucket list.
Huh?
This one's coming . What an item left on your bucket list. What do you , what do you still want to do in your life?
I mean, dude, I have, my bucket lists are all over the place. I don't even know how to answer that. Well , you have to gimme a li like what type of list. So like, if it's playing golf, I wanna play at St . Andrews. You know what I mean? If it's like travel someplace, I want , you know, I wanna take my wife to Paris, you know? I mean, it depends on the list as it relates to the bucket, but the I'll get more. Is that bad ?
It was bad.
Everyone should see a sunset .
It's true though. Yes . Have you ever seen a beautiful sunset on the beach? You assume that most people have, oh man, Sam's killing me all . You're gonna have to strike all that from the podcast. you can't do the sunset. It's too Veta.
Beautiful. Um ,
Thank you, Sam, for protecting me . Go ahead. Keep going.
Yeah. If you could have coffee with yourself at any age, what age would you have coffee with yourself? And what would you tell them that would , that Ken , that would've made a , a difference with where you are now?
17 year old, Ken? I would've told him to skip college and focus getting into broadcasting early.
Really? Wow. Mm-hmm what do you , what are your thoughts on college? Is it overrated?
A hundred percent. Yeah. Um , here's my thoughts on college. If it's not the only way to get qualified, to do what you want to do, or if it's not the best way, then it's summer camp on steroids and you don't need it. Wow. I spend the time and money on something else.
So good. I'll leave this open in . Anything else you wanna leave leaders with today?
Just the importance of sunsets on the beach.
I'll yeah. I'm in Pittsburgh. So we have very few of those. I'll try to see
What , yeah . I'm gonna get you a painting. You know what it's gonna be. I'm gonna present it to you at Chrysalis . Here's Sam. Ah , Doug, did I ruin your podcast? I assume you can cut around all that. So here hit me with that question. One more time.
Anything else you wanna leave leaders with Kevin ?
Yeah. Remember this that you were created to lead and it's gonna be hard. The best thing about leadership is people. The worst thing about leadership is people, but in those most frustrating, lonely , um, hard moments, remember your why? Why do you love leading people? And if you can return to your why and be able to succinctly say it, whether write it down or say it, remind yourself retreat to your why, and that'll keep you going.
Ken . It's been an honor to be with you again. Thanks for everything you do.
And thanks, dude. You
Do it again.
Yep . Appreciate you, Doug.
Mike Wise . Well , Hey leader, thank you so much for listening to my conversation with Ken. I hope that you enjoyed it as much as I did. You can find ways to connect with him and links to everything that we discussed in the show notes@lthreeleadership.org slash 3 22 and leaders always. I want to challenge you that if you want to 10 X extra growth this year, then you need to either launch or join at L three leadership mastermind group.
Mastermind groups have been the greatest source of growth in my life over the last seven years. And if you don't know what they are, they're just simply groups of six to 12 leaders that meet together on a consistent basis for at least one year in order to help each other grow, hold each other accountable and to do life together.
So if you're interested in learning more about masterminds, go to healthy three leadership.org/masterminds, and as always leader, I like to end every episode with a quote. And today I'll quote Brian Houston , who said this. He said, the end of an era is not the completion of a destiny. The best is yet to come. And maybe one of you need to hear that today. I'll say it again. The end of an era is not the completion of a destiny. The best is yet to come well leader.
We hope you enjoyed this episode. Know that my wife, Laura , and I love you. We believe in you. And remember, keep leading. Don't quit. The world desperately needs your leadership. We'll talk to you next episode.