SUNDAY Sit-Down | Russell Hunter: Abolitionists Rising | Ep 537

The pro-life movement, it's like mercy, mercy, mercy, mercy to the point where you look at their banners and the reason they're trying to fight abortion is because they're trying to protect women. So it'll actually say we're trying to protect women and babies.

And you're like, really? Well, don't spend some time on the pro-choice websites or in the pro-choice groups on Facebook or Twitter and tell me what those women are interested in. They're shouting their abortions and they're talking about their 9th, 10th, 11th abortion, and they're like purposely going to conceive a child so they can go pop a pill on the steps of the Supreme Court. And you're trying to protect women from abortion.

How about protect these babies from these murderous women? Now, all interviewers have their own style, and my style is to try to get to the point and to be intensely curious. And the key to is listening. Take a look behind the curtain with a real whistleblower and American patriot. Prepare to embrace the uncomfortable truth because this program has no time for comforting lies. Here is civil liberties. Enthusiast, Second Amendment defender and recovering FBI agent Kyle Seraph.

Today on our Sunday sit down Kyle Seraphin show, we're going to be bringing on T Russell Hunter and he goes by Russell Hunter. We were already cutting it up already and he's Norman OK of all places where I went to school. Russell, thanks for joining me on the program. Man, happy to be here. I'm really excited. So my wife is the biggest fan of your work in our house and I am the second biggest fan.

But I'm, I'm, I've been, she sent me all of your clips early on. So that's how I'm aware of who you guys are even in the 1st place. And I saw you guys in front of the Capitol the other day. How long ago was that Capital video? Oh, it's what, 2 weeks ago? Yeah. OK. So that's 1/2. Weeks ago, yeah, real current. But you know, we're, we're already exhausting the DC footage and moving on, it seems. But we'll have plenty of stuff coming out from DC over the next

few weeks. But that mission, that mission was current missions. I I've slept since then, but very little. Why don't we start with the name of your organization and what that stands for? Then I'd like to do kind of a profile on who you are and how you got there. And I'm sure we'll just go into some wild stuff based on the experience that you had. Yeah, wherever you want to go on game.

Yeah. So abolitionists rising And I I try to stress the the ass on the abolitionists rising part of the abolitionist movement, Christians fighting abortion pretty, you know, on our face forward evangelical Christian type folks fighting abortion, bringing the gospel into conflict with the evil of child sacrifice.

The abolitionist movement's bigger than our group, but abolitionist rising is an organization that we established to try to further kind of the argument for abolishing abortion Contra just the argument for regulating abortion. And our our main, I guess our main form of attack, not by choice, but just kind of happened to be that way, is we do a bunch of St. work, street engagement, what we call agitation. We get out in the culture and we

agitate people. We show them the evil of abortion and get into conversations with whoever wants to talk. We film those conversations, put them up on YouTube. And you know, by the grace of God, it's kind of blown up and done pretty well. The message has gotten out there.

But beyond running the YouTube channel and getting a bunch of abolitionist material out there and that form kind of our bread and butter is producing materials, resources, signs, pamphlets, that sort of thing for activists all over the globe that want to, you know, kind of be sort of like the tip of the spear, very radical anti abortion stuff for that's that's the way I think we'd be seen by the broader audience.

But beyond that, you know, we're like, I'm a normal, I'm a normal guy working with a bunch of normal, normal folks. We're just trying to be, you know, Christians and a culture that kills its children. You know, we think, we think, well, what does it look like in a culture where they're murdering children under the color of unjust laws? Whatever the answer is to that, let's put that into practice.

So I've been doing that for about 15 years, I guess 15-16 years all the way back to whenever I was in school with you at the University of Oklahoma, which is bizarre that I didn't know that before We talked, you know, 10 minutes ago was at the University of Oklahoma. I was pursuing APHD in the history of science. So I was like, I mean, I, I may not, I may, I probably sound like it sometimes, but I'm a, I'm a history philosophy science

nerd. But somewhere around the fifth year of my doctorate, I became very convicted that I was not living or loving the least of these in my midst and that, you know, I was turning a blind eye to the practice of child sacrifice going on in my culture. Very much living for myself. And, you know, had had had a trajectory of, you know, being a college professor and, you know, just, you know, not not doing much to engage the world.

But God got a hold of me. And according to my very liberal Darwinian secular humanist professors, I got religion and dropped out of school to, to to form a cult, A cult that was, you know, seeking to protect human beings who were being murdered. So I left the secular college environment to pursue the establishment of equal justice under the law for preborn human beings and. And the the term abolitionist is obviously really, really specific. You want to kind of tell me how

you guys landed on that? Yeah, perfect. So whenever I first, when I first noticed that there were preborn humans that were, you know, being aborted, you know, I was like most just like regular church going Christian people, you know, once a year there's a sanctity of life sermon and you know, abortion's bad. You vote against abortion, you're pro lifer and all that kind of stuff. But when I got personally convicted about it, I was like, well, I got to, I got to do something.

I got there's an abortion clinic down the street from where I live. I got to do something about this. What do I do? My, my natural instinct was to kind of look around at all the, the pro-life groups and ministries and things that could be done, like how can I volunteer at a crisis pregnancy center? Can I, you know, give money, all

that kind of stuff. And so I, I started doing research on a bunch of the pro-life groups at the same time as a historian, I was already studying 19th century abolitionist of transatlantic slavery and abolitionist of chattel slavery. And what I was studying in history and what I was studying in the current sort of pro-life world, I noticed that back in the day, in the 19th century, you had abolitionist of slavery and then you had sort of anti

slavery moderates. And the abolitionists were kind of these sort of more wild, sort of prophetic, you know, hey, if we don't stop doing this, God's going to judge us kind of people. And they believed in total and

immediate abolition. Whatever anyone thinks about that group, they get praised and heralded as being, you know, the ones who were right pro lifers today, if you compared what I was seeing in the pro-life groups, their ideology, their strategy, their tactics, their language, like, just like their, their rhetorical assaults, their, their aesthetics were like night and day different from the abolitionists of

slavery. And I'd already decided that these abolitionists, the William Wilber forces type in Britain and then the the garrisons and the Douglass's and stuff like that in America. I'd already decided in historical studies that these guys were right. They had the right disposition towards their battle. And the sort of the gradual anti anti slavery people were the ones that kind of delayed abolition.

And so the bad guys in history, the anti slavery, gradual moderate type folks that had delayed it. And in my understanding, a lot of understanding, a lot of historians had kind of led to the Civil War because they constantly put off abolition. Their ideas, their tactics, their strategy were one in the same with the tactics, strategy and ideology of the modern pro-life groups.

So I knew that I wanted to fight abortion, but I didn't want to fight it in a way that I thought had been already shown to be extremely ineffective in history. And the other thing is, is, as you know, I was, you know, I, I, I would never really claim to be like a, at this time back when I was in grad school, a, a super Christian kind of guy. Like, I, I mean, I wasn't non Christian, but I wasn't, I wasn't just like sold out like that wasn't my main focus.

I wasn't like seeking first the Kingdom of God and letting everything else be added on to me. I was very much kind of living for myself and, you know, church going and all that kind of stuff. But but anyway, at that same time that I was convicted about loving preborn humans, I was at the same time kind of getting serious about the Bible. And so I was reading a bunch of, you know, just reading the Bible. And I also saw there was a lot of biblical problems in a lot of

the pro-life groups. Yes, they were Christian. Yes, they had Bible verses on things, but it didn't seem to go very deep and it didn't seem to go as sharp as the prophets of God went like the prophets were. You know, they came on strong. They called their culture, you know, an idolatrous, wicked, you know, nation full of murderers that were. And that why did they not do anything about child sacrifice in their mix? Because they're whores.

And, like, I'm like, OK, if I look at the pro-life movement and they seemed back in 2010, like, scared to even call abortion murder. And I was like, I really can't. I want to fight abortion, but I can't fight it in this sort of namby pamby, sort of politically correct, you know, gradual, sort of ineffective and unbiblical way. And so, you know, I just said, well, every age has its evils, you know, chattel slavery, abortion, every age should have

its abolitionist. So you had abolitionist of chattel slavery, you should have abolitionist of abortion. And so in 2010 formed, we just formed a little group there here in Norman at, you know, a local Baptist Church. We said, hey, you know what? And this is a Baptist Church that was big on pro-life stuff, massive, you know, 40 Days for Life, Rose Day, you know, support whatever, you know, whatever's pro-life is good. And you know, there's pro-life

and there's pro-choice. Those are the sides. Don't think about anything. There's no controlled opposition. There's no, there's, you know, there's no, you know, none of this, you know, stuff. It's good. That you have that nearby. Yeah, I just, you know, everyone, you know, got to keep if you, hey, if you're always thinking as a conspiracy theorist, something's wrong with you. But if you're never thinking as a conspiracy theorist, you're

probably not thinking. But so the pro-choice, the pro-life, sort of those are the two position. I was like, I don't think so. I think there's actually a serious biblical stronger position that not only thinks abortion is bad and something should be done about it, but says abortion is murder, abortion is sin. And if abortion is sin and murder, that makes it, you know, a crime. So abortion is a crime, should

be treated as a crime. And the defining characteristic of all pro-life legislation that I was studying at the point at that point was that it wasn't a crime. There was, it's a bad thing. We should make it harder to choose. We should make it more regulated, but it's not a crime and it should not be treated as a crime. And so I saw that all the way back in 2010. And then as far as like when it came to like the religious intersection, I was like, yeah,

we should call it murder. And there was like, don't call it murder. It's too harsh. And I'm like, well, if we call it murder, then we can say, hey, but good news, God Forgives murderers. That's like, that's his jam. Like God Forgives murderers. So abortions, murder, the gospel is still the answer. A a nation that commits murder and has laws that allow murder, that kind of nation can turn to God. An individual who's murdered a child can turn to God.

But what's required is repentance is like is agreeing with God, this is murder, this is a crime, this is a national sin and then a change. And this is something that I just believe could could be done. I believe God, you know, he's not going to flood the world, but he wants us to repent. So those I. Actually, I actually heard that we were going to lose all the coastlines and that the the rivers were all going to flow over. Did do you not listen to AOC at all as a prophet? Yeah, I see.

Fairly confident we're all we're all about to die in a couple years that I have a very. I have a streamlined group of people I think are actual profits and AOC is not one of them. That's a shame. She'll be very upset to hear this. You know what? She doesn't care. I just heard a a vocal anomaly. And I don't know if it's because we're in the same place at the same time and it came from being a person in that time, but you just said that that's God's jam.

And my girls will tell me what their jam is. My my youngest girls will and they'll and I'll be like, who says that? And they're like, you say that. I was like, oh, do I do I talk about things being my jam. I like that you said that. For some reason it just made me feel like. Maybe it dates us, my friend. We are. We are definitely. It's a it's a dad vibe thing. I used to kind of hold it in, but now I just embrace it because I, you know, yeah.

I used a lot of 90s terminologies on my kids and I'm trying to what I had to. OK, so this is kind of just complete aside, has nothing to do with what we're talking about. We'll get back to it. But I, I sat down at the DMV the other day, a tax office actually, and I'm paying for the tax on my truck. And I'm, I'm talking to this gal and she's clearly in her 20s, you know, and she's got a cross outside of her, her blouse. I wanted to have a good human connection with her.

We started talking about something and she goes, she said, I love it when a plan comes together. And I looked at her and I go, oh, that's a Murdoch moment. I said that you look too young to have watched the The A-Team. And she said, you know what? She said I saw it, but I mean, it was in reruns. I said still counts, right? Still counts. Yeah. And then it's. Amazing.

She goes, I used to watch Nick at night and I'd watch All in the Family and I watched Family Matters and Family Ties and I've seen The A-Team and Knight Rider. And she, I said, you're one of those. And she said, yeah, what do you call that?

And I said classically educated. No, whenever Friday came along and it was like TGIF or whatever, right, It's like all the Friday it's and and and you had to wait till Friday to like watch your shows and now you just watch them all the time at every given like, I mean, there's something superior about all of our streamers, but man, growing up it was Saturday morning cartoons and Friday night like acceptable sitcoms in my house. You know, it was like.

It was built in delayed gratification, which used to be a virtue that was actually looked at in a Christian sense as well for this nation. I will. I will get it back on track here. So, so here's here's something I heard Ben Shapiro say, which makes me sympathetic to the position you stated.

Yes, Ben Shapiro, for years when I was listening to him before he decided to go down the rabbit hole about the vaccines and things, he said that there are two original sins of this country and they've been reborn as the same sin. And the first one was chattel slavery, not recognizing human beings as human beings. And the second one is abortion, not recognizing human beings as human beings. I'm curious how that hits you. No, it hits me. It's exactly, it's exactly right.

And it does get us back, because what I saw in those abolitionists of chattel slavery was an unabashed like embrace of that biblical idea that human beings are made in the image of God. And so the reason you like, if you go back and you look at them, they were saying that chattel slavery wasn't bad simply because it was slavery, that there was a kind of a biblical slavery. There was like a way that you could do slavery right and and permissive that even God would sort of allow.

Like this is actually slavery as a grace, like on a people that's been conquered or people that need that's in famine and stuff like God allowed his own people to be put into slavery and then pulled them out of slavery, good slavery than bad slavery. And so the concept and the understanding of good slavery and bad slavery was there, but chattel slavery was wrong. And the reason they called it chattel slavery was because it was turning a human being, an image bearer into a thing into a

beast of burden. And so you were selling people in the same way that you were selling cattle. And so it was a denial of the image of God. And so when you look at William Lloyd Garrison and some of the forefront sort of thinkers and rhetoricians for that movement, it was all about the image of God is a death knell to all forms of oppression and usurpation, anything that treats a human being as not an image bearer.

And so they were doing that and they were saying the reason that chattel slavery is wrong is because it's it's an image of God thing. And the second is that it's predicated on man stealing. And like, they're unabashed about this. They're like, man stealing in the word of God is a capital crime.

That's like, if you can be punished, you, you get the death penalty for stealing a man and selling him, which is what was going on in Africa. You know, that was African tribes stealing one another to sell them. So the whole thing was predicated all the way back on that. And then in America, there was just tons of man stealing going on. You know, free blacks would get, you know, picked up and sold down the river and all that kind of stuff. And so they were calling chattel slavery a crime.

And most of the most of the sort of modern. So there's like an abolition movement from the founding of the country. And Shapiro's right, it's John Quincy Adams who first calls slavery America's original sin because whenever they wrote the Constitution, there were people that were like, let's not have slavery. Let's have you know, Christ is king and there's no slavery. And they've, and those people were like, you know, kept out of the room, like, you're not allowed in here.

Yeah, You're radical, right. You're radical. We want the compromise. We don't want to deal with this now. And they, they founded a country that was supposed to be a land of liberty while they were also owning slaves. So it's like a fundamental contradiction there at the beginning. And so, so now we have the fundamental. So now we're a land where you have liberty, but you also have

the right to life. And so the way that slavery made a mockery of that claim to be a land of liberty, abortion makes a mockery of that claim to be a land that recognizes the right to life. And so if you look at them, they're eerily, they're just, they're constantly the same. You know, you have a, a country that's incredibly divided on slavery. And after, you know, 40-50 years of that, you get free States and slave states.

Now you have a country where you're going to have like abortion States and abortion free states. There are no abortion free states currently, but you have the idea of under Dobbs of there being states without abortion and states with abortion, but recognized. But ultimately, and this is like one of the big differences between abolitionists and pro lifers in general is that.

We're looking at slavery as abortion as a national sin, like chattel slavery, and that, yes, it goes on, but our governing authorities not only allow it, but like right laws that protect it. So we would punish like we would punish people who fight abortion and reward people who do abortion. We would fund people who do abortions and punish people who fight abortion. And so it's it's totally upside down.

And whenever a country does that sort of thing, those of us who believe God is a living, active being that cares what we're doing, looks at our country and is like, yeah, there's no, there's no making America great while you practice child

sacrifice. And so the impulse to clean up the national sin of abortion that we have today out of a love not just for pre born humans, but of a love for a higher law and a love for, you know, the relationship between our our country and God is kind of what's driving abolitionist.

So we're seeking we're I mean, as as crazy and far off as it sounds, we're seeking repentance like that our country would sort of, you know, without coming through some confrontation, like some civil war type situation, that our country would repent of the evil of writing laws that allow child sacrifice and that that would bring on the blessings of God and that our currency and our songs of God Bless America and God we trust all that kind of stuff would no longer just be pissing him off.

Sorry for using that word, but you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, I know, but I some people, I'm going to get it. I'm going to get a text. Someone says, right, But but like, I was just like, I think that I think that God is angry with us whenever we do certain things.

And a lot of people think, no, no, no, God's not like that anymore because Jesus was like, no, Jesus is God and he talks a lot about how he's going to gather up the nations and there's going to be nations that are sheep and nations that are goats and the goat nations are going to be separated and cast aside into like, you know, eternal torment forever. I mean, it's kind of that's Jesus. That's not the Old Testament God.

That's God, very God, Jesus. And so I think that everything that the Bible reveals about God's disposition towards nations that practice child sacrifice and political figures are legislators who write laws allowing it from the beginning of the book to the end of the book is like, woe to you. Like, if you like, if you just, you know, people want to look up

things later on their own. You look at Leviticus 20, it literally says if there are people in your nation that practice child sacrifice, that kill their children and you do not punish them, I will turn my face against you. It's like God who made the universe. It's like I will go to war against you. I will judge you. I will bring Assyria down on your head. I will, I will bring plagues into your people. I will, I will punish you if you do not punish people who kill innocent human beings.

And of course, God's long-suffering, he's compassionate and he's tolerated it for 53 years. But 53 years in, we're looking at a very eerie timeline of, you know, similarity back to the chattel slavery thing. We're, we're looking at that sort of, how long is God? Is God going to be fine with us? Just sort of like putting this on the back burner. Me, I want to make America great again. I want my kids to grow up in a in a world that isn't as out of its mind.

And I see all this drag queen stuff and I see all this like people don't know if they're, you know, men or women and they're actually confused. The sexual idolatry is running a muck and just like everyone's lost their mind. It seems like we're under a strong delusion. Whack a lunary and I'm and and people want to look around and they're always pointing at, you know, kind of rightly, they're pointing at this progressive or that progressive, just these bad

ideas. But we got to step back and go. It seems as though we've been as a country turned over like like God's basically been like, listen, you're parading your sin like Sodom and you're killing your children and you're writing laws to justify it and you've been doing it since the sexual revolution. Like here, let me just let me just give you let me just give you what you've chosen instead of my law. And that's what we got.

We've got abortion pills flowing into all these mailboxes and all these people murdering their children and all the psychological, spiritual damage that that's doing. And so that's why you can't have a civil conversation with someone on the street because they've been a sense of essentially like given over to to delusions that have them, you know, to put it kind of plainly, like, like, why does anyone vote for Democrats? Like what now?

Like you're asking questions. I mean, I've seen them a sign out there. They're they exist. We know. But yeah, what? I can't get them to argue their point. I've seen you do this as well. You guys ask questions and it asked to it never ends up with like an answer. It's like, oh, that makes sense. There's never that makes sense moment on on the other end coming at you not to me all.

Rhetoric, it's all rhetoric. It's all, it's all slogans Like I, I will, you know, like I, I, I never sort of like separate science and religion or theology and, and logic. I, I just, it's all together for me. It's all truth. But I, if I lead with, do you believe in human rights? You know, I'm talking to someone, they've got blue hair, you know, short blue hair and that they're pretending to be a boy when they're a girl, you know, and, and I and I'll leave. And you guys are uncanny at

finding them. How long does it take you to to ensnare these people into your into your discussion? It doesn't. You just set up, you hold a sign and they come out of the woodwork because they believe that actually they're the smart ones and we're the idiots. They think that science is on their side and it's not on ours. They think that logic and reason and policy all of it, but it's all on our side. Well, it's all religion to them too, if we're being honest. I mean, yes, if you tell me.

Tell me if this hits with you. Well, but you know, I made the argument that that leftism is basically just a secular religion at this point. So they are making a religious argument to you, which is why they have certain tenants that it's just you have to accept them on their faith. Their faith is that they're the good person. They're the good moral actor. Yeah. And. They do They're. Awful. They are attracted to you guys like turning on a blue light at a BBQ.

Like they just come in and want to be part of the zapper. It's it is it is slow. It's turning down, though. I've noticed when we go to the same campus that people that normally would have stopped and talked like will go, they'll go way out of their way not to come by because they've experienced it. They're like, man, I tried that and then I ended up, you know, being, you know, 2-3 million people seeing me look stupid on on YouTube.

I got sacked on a viral way. That's not a that's not a bad deterrent. So whatever, it's worse. No, it's such a good thing because some of them, I think, you know, I pray that they're, that they're realizing that because that, that there was 1 gal. She was like, it was a short. It was like one of our early viral shorts. And she was a history of science grad student and she had no idea what like IVF was and how it worked. And she said something that was

just stupid. And I was just like, no, no, no, even IVF people develop in wombs like the in vitro is the fertilization and then the placements back in the womb. And she thought it like was all in test tubes. So it was like a really. Stupid test tube baby, right Russell? So like you got. It was all in a test tube and. Yeah, in her mind, like the mind's eye, she'd created a theater, that it was grown in a test tube. And then what?

Hatched. Yeah, but since she was a grad student, yeah, she was a grad student, so she believed that she just had to be smart, obviously. And. But anyway, so we put up these shorts and, you know, like on TikTok, they went in like 910,000,000 views and then it got back around and then one of her professors who's a friend of mine messaged me and was like, hey, so is this what you're doing now? You know, And I was like, what is it?

Yeah, what do you mean? Is are you, are you having conversations with students and then editing, editing them to make the students look bad and you look good? And I was like, OK, in honor of this request, I will put up the

whole conversation uncut. So you can see not only how stupid the student was, but that she brings up the fact that she's a history of science grad student, which she's arguing with me who was a history of science grad student and had a four point O. And like was, you know, whenever I got my master's was A at that time, you know, a well liked

student in the, in the program. And, and so this professor is kind of has to go through this sort of cognitive dissonance, like his current student is saying really idiotic things and lied to him and said that she didn't say those idiotic things. And then I edited it that way. And then we put the full thing up and then I send it to him and then I say, hey, please watch this and can we have, can we get lunch sometime next week? And then I had like a 5 hour long conversation with him and

it was, it was great. But it's like coming to realize, no, actually our side, the pro abortion side, it makes all sorts of stupid argument. Like they say that life doesn't mean it begin at conception when all the textbooks say it does. Like all scientists agree that a human life's beginning is when it begins and that that's what conception means. And that you have a human being that goes through embryological and fetal development. So you start with like, hey, do

you believe in human rights? The blue haired girl getting back to it, the blue haired girl says, yeah, I believe in human rights. And all you have to do say is like, so you're against abortion. And then immediately they're like, no. And you're like, so you're not for human rights. And then they'll proceed to tell you that, well, it's not born yet. And you're like, OK, so you're for born human rights. No, no, I'm for human because they want that label. Oh, do you believe in justice?

Yeah, I believe in social, social justice. Like, OK, so you believe that. Yeah. People who murder their children, justice should be done to them. No, that's crazy. And you're like, OK, so you don't believe in justice. It's all fake social justice, human rights, the whole lot. Like everything that you know what we've sort of blanket call the left, It's all just it's, it's their minds have been like darkened and they they grow up and they actually believe that

they're the smart ones. And so one of the reasons that our channel does so well on YouTube and TikTok is because I think, you know, conservative Christians get to tune in and watch these people and their their insane ideas just crash into logic. Because most of the time all I'm doing is asking questions. You're doing a very old technique, if we're being real honest.

This is what the Counter Reformation was about in the Catholic. So I'm a Catholic, you know, I grew up and I, and I grew up around Jesuits, not the, not the Jesuits of today for some reason, although some of them were in my, in my core, But the, the, the original plan of the Jesuits, the army of God and the whole, the sort of Aloysius Gonzaga or not Aloysius, what's his name?

Ignatius of Loyola, his whole plan, because I'm going to send the most educated, fit, strong, masculine looking guys into, into Germany in the, in the, the hotbed of, of Lutheranism. And we're going to just sit and challenge local preachers who don't have the knowledge base, the language base, the, you know, the ability to articulate the presence.

And they may have we're. Going to train them in rhetoric and we're going to just have them ask questions and, and, and the clown these people with their own words. Yeah, so it's like, and then that's what's happened is, you know, to to take the historical analogy, there is if and and a lot of the blame could be put honestly on the church, on Christians just blanket like there's like a 304050. I don't know, you know, say 50 years.

There has by and large been sort of a Christians have kind of cloistered themselves off like they've stopped engaging the culture and they just seeded the arts that like media, you know, and the universities to anti Christians. And so they, you know, kind of rightly saw that like this really isn't the best way to get educated, like sending your, you know, and so they said, well, if the Christians are all going to pull out, we'll turn these things into indoctrination

centers. We'll make it culturally relevant. The Christians will still send their kids to us and we'll try to de Christianize them and send them back out into the world. And so we have the secular indoctrination centers that are not solid. They really, I mean, like what they're training people to do. And I've gone, I mean, I took all the logic and critical reasoning and, you know, I, I did plenty of, you know, history, science, philosophy and all that kind of stuff.

So like I'm in a, in a sense a product of it, but I was always reading on the side, like all the real books, all the real philosophers, all the real anything in economics or anything. It was not the books that I was being assigned. It was the books that I was like reading on the side so that whenever I came into class and we had the moments of like round table moments to debate that I could that I could whoop up on, on the secularist.

And so like I was getting an education while in college via,

you know, this is a long time. This is before the YouTube thing, but I was like, I was getting, I was getting audiobooks and you know, I was working a nighttime janitor job and listening to like apologetics and philosophy and stuff and finding that the guy that just writing some apologetics book, which you know, I used to read, the guy you might be familiar with is a, he's a Catholic author, Peter Creeft. And he writes these dialogues.

They're like Socratic dialogues where he'll take, you know, you know, modern day. He wrote one. It was like CS Lewis, Thomas Jefferson and John F Kennedy or Aldous Huxley and John F Kennedy. And I'd like to read these dialogues. And whenever you said you were, you were using an ancient method, you went back, you went back to counter reformation. Well, all the way back to Socrates.

You know, like Socrates is just like, you know, walk into Athens and you know, and after Socrates, Paul famously did this at the Areopagus. But like walk into Athens and be like, let me just ask you questions about like these gods of yours and just it's it's. Powerful and fun to watch. I mean, I, I would do this even in Twitter spaces and I, I get a big kick out of it where people tell me the same thing that you're having these conversations about values,

right? It's like, we are, are you for human rights? Are you for, for justice? I would ask them, what do you want for your children? And then they would tell me, I want them to be good people. I want them to live productive lives. And I'm like, cool, how do you define good? And why is that good? And where did those values come from? Because they're not innate. They're not obvious unless you understand that there's some basis for it. And then it's like, well, what

about the poor? Do you care about them? It's like, yeah, I care about the poor. Why do you care about the poor? What? What turning point happened in human history where suddenly people cared about those in poverty? Because it's a real, specific, concrete time, you know? And so when you ask people and let them come to it, it's like, well, did your parents have a Christian faith? No, they did. And you're just too good for it.

You just you got formed by it and you have all the ideas of it, but now you've just thrown out the foundation of it. That's cool. How many how many houses have you seen built without a foundation? Like The funny thing is they actually already agree with you if they if they say yes to the things. Yeah, they're living. They're living our worldview. They're denying it. Correct. Like they they they they argue for this relativism philosophically. Because they actually live

relatively. Yeah, and they don't. And they, and they, I think it's important to show them that they don't because I think that eventually someone shows them and that cognitive dissonance is like just the bug that needs to be or the seed that needs to be planted. Or you'll, you'll notice it like all the stats and people talk about all the time that you, you kind of go through this sort of like 30 years of being a liberal and then you get older and you

realize it just doesn't work. And then you become a conservative. It's, you know, like that's that phenomenon is it's because our ideas have to be livable. And eventually you start carrying about your stuff, you know, purely economic application here. That's right. Eventually you own stuff and you're like, it doesn't really make sense that this thing that I bought on this land that I own, that I have to pay this kind of tax and this kind of tax and this kind of tax.

And then that starts to like erode your, your bigger, you know, your, your training in, in, in college. And you realize the only reason that you were rebelling about that is because back in college you were addicted to pornography and you needed to justify sin. And so you, you know, adopted relativism to justify your sin or whatever. And so now you're kind of like, well, yeah. And so you, that's that's why we see what we're seeing.

But the other, I mean, I would say from from my experience on college campuses, though, I'm running into lots of young people that that are smart, swift, you know, good looking, you know, well groomed, you know, coming up all the time. Hey, man, I watch your channel. I like what you're doing. And they're they're way more bold in a in a year in, in, in just five years, like a five year chunk five years ago.

I feel as though a guy maybe a little more than 5, let's say, let's go all the way back 10 years. A guy holding a sign that says abortion is murder. There's forgiveness for the sin of murder in Jesus Christ. Like right. Like that guy is a lunatic, He's out of his mind, Ignore him. We knew that guy that came to to to campus on Norman. I remember that guy standing with a nine foot tall or a 1020 foot tall sign on a post, you

know, with a mega. With a mega, Yeah, you don't want to talk to that guy like he's a kook, but but what you're doing with the way you guys are doing it is, is you're actually like, he was trying to tell people something. You're trying to ask people something. And that brings people in is what it looks like. But you're still, you're still a combatant, which is the word that I keep honing in on. You're a combatant. You're just modeling what the fight looks like in a more

effective way. Yeah, and and and and and that that point's 100% true because there are sort of like bad ways and good ways of doing this, obviously. But but where I wanted to key in on is that I think that the culture went so nuts that that the guy who's holding a sign fighting for something that's, you know, traditional, like murdering babies is wrong. He might be sane. And my professor who is a man dressed like as a woman, he might be insane. So let's listen to it.

And so like I just whenever the video editor. Said, hey, let's go film some stuff and put it on TikTok or whatever. I was like, well, it's not going to be popular. It's it's a middle-aged white man telling people that abortions murder, Like why would anyone watch that? And then it blew up. And I was like, OK, the culture has changed. Like they're they're people that are fed up with all the lunacy and they're like willing to watch some of this stuff.

And we have like, you know, I hate to use the word fans, but like people subscribers who watch the channel who are not Christians. They're they're not, they're not traditional, you know, church going Christians, but they'll message me or they'll message the page and they'll just be like, I mean, sometimes they're telling me, hey, I'm kind of becoming a Christian, you know, like, or like I started going to

church. It's really, really weird, man, and kind of started with watching your channel because you were just speaking the truth and more. Importantly, you were you were doing something that is inherently interesting, right? I think that, and this is from watching you guys, you're creating human conflict and all of us have an instinct to one. What is this conflict? Why is it in conflict and it is going to get resolved.

So we all kind of want to see the resolution of it because most of us don't want to walk around going like there's a lot of conflict in the world that I live in. It's like at any moment again, you're me. So you guys are you guys are showing that there's a conflict and you're doing it in a peaceable way, which is a very Christian thing to do. It turns out, you know, you can go back down to drawing in the ground and just asking quiet questions while people lose their.

Minds, right? Yeah. You know, you just, there's no reason to get triggered by it and you do it at a professional level. Would that be accurate? I mean, you're you're. Trolling for for you're. Trolling these people to come in and say, hey, why don't you come and defend your positions? Because I'm I'm very good in mine. Yeah, well, see, The thing is, is that they always assume that the guy wearing a hoodie holding a sign in the middle of the day is probably less educated than them.

Yeah, you're the dummy and they're going to come straighten you out. But 98% of them are way less educated. I mean, I'm not. It's a bear. I don't. I mean this. I don't, I don't pat myself on the back about these things, but like if, if we were just kind of like, oh, let's make some arguments from authority. I have way more degrees than you do, you know? And so it's like, but I don't lead with that. And they're not expecting it, right?

But. These are the people that lean on credentialism and and you're just saying, hey, I'm just going to ask you like just defend your positions. Here's the ideas. The ideas are the strength. I do do the. Gun control, by the way, this is my favorite game. It's like I know more about guns than the people I'm going to talk to, so let's just do it. And, and when you have that, you don't have to like you don't have to tell people, you can just ask them.

It's like we're going to expose your vulnerabilities because they're not mine, they're yours. Exactly, but it is. But like to your point about TikTok though and why, I don't think it's because the culture has changed as much. I think you guys are changing the culture. I think it is inherently interesting to see human conflict. We all will stop. If you see a husband and a wife arguing in public, are you not watching? Does that get resolved or does

someone get slapped? How about a how about a child being, you know, you know, being corrected by their parent in an aggressive way and, and you maybe you say, Oh my God, how dare they do that? Or maybe you say, good, finally somebody's disciplining their kids promptly. But you have an opinion that would? Need to be spanked. There's a there's a conflict that is happening and you are asking you want to see it.

Our best stuff, like our best Tik Tok's best shorts are the ones where you know what's popular and you know Shapiro and what's his name, Mug Club guy. Yeah, Crowder. Like, yeah, Crowder. Like the owning the libs, that sort of model of owning libs. Yes, destroys Lib or whatever, right? Destroy libs.

Our content, the the ones you know, because I look at the analytics, the ones that really do well are whenever some kind of like objection is raised or some kind of question is asked and then the the pro abortion person like makes a statement or says something and then they get the answer. And then there's a question and they can't answer it and you see either them or someone else in the shot. Kind of like realize. Right. And you guys have an arrow. It's like he gets it.

Like this is the guy. That's why you did the argument. Yeah, and that and and people and people think, well, OK, I hope that person learned and maybe they did, maybe they didn't, you know, because the argument could have gone on for an hour long and you're just seeing this little clip. But lots of people like I'm talking like an uncountable number of commenters are like, I used to believe like what these

people in these videos believe. I started watching these videos just because I thought maybe I would see the, the, the pro-life guy get owned. And then over time, I'm like, holy crap. Like, I, I, I'm on the idiot side. And that is like, sometimes it gets a little bit, you know, you feel like you're banging your head against the wall and you're not getting to anybody. Can I like you? You like, God needs to send you like a comment. You got to read a comment.

And if somebody says, you know, you know, a year ago, a year ago, I was making that argument, that stupid argument. I can't believe I ever did. And it's like, yeah, and, and again I get mad at Christians. I'm like, why did my body, my choice ever work? The body inside your body is not your body. It's a, it's a second body. Like that's the whole thing. Like why did that ever work? Calling it, you know, reproductive justice? It's like, no, it it's post reproduction destruction.

Like why did any of those slogans work? They the, the left has put them on things and sent out postcards and made T-shirts and all sorts of stuff. And it's just idiotic stuff. And I'm like, why did that ever have any power in our culture? And it's because Christians were running around, you know, saying choose life. It's like, no, yeah, that's not a choice. Yeah, there's no choice. It's, it's you're murdering people. Stop, you know.

So your position that would it be fair like you guys aren't, you know, there's pro-life, there's pro-choice, you guys are anti choice. Yeah, which is a better because you're actually setting yourself and and I think that's the the terminology abolitionist is real specific. It's not like we're not like some servitude, but but not all it it like you guys are saying no, no, slavery has to end now. Abortion has to end now. This is not like a negotiation.

I I understood seeing people get squeamish about it. And yet we talked about historical perspective. I want to, I want to hone in on something real quick. We look back today and you mentioned who the good guys were. I guarantee those weren't the good guys because they were not the ones in the 3/5 compromise, right? They were not allowed to be part of the conversation because they were in the untenable position.

Do you think America looks back and let's say 50 or 60 years and goes, I cannot believe that we tolerated, you know, killing of babies as long as we did. Do you think that happens? A. 100% What's the timeline then? Well, there's an actual yeah, prognostic. Yeah, let me let me, let me this not a profit. The the thing that I I so I'm, you know, in my early 40s, I think I definitely see the abolition of abortion and I think that I live another 1020 years easy, easy.

And that's not. Or civil war, because isn't that where we're at as far as time goes? Isn't that the difference between between our constitution and and civil war in 70 years? If you, if you, if you look, I'm telling you there's some eerie stuff if you look at, you know, I have AI have a speech that I gave in DCI.

They let me actually, we had about 300 and 5400 people that like I, we kind of impromptu gave like a speech at the Lincoln Memorial. And you know, a buddy of mine that was help organizing this event. He was a psych man. You need to give that, you need to say that stuff about sort of like Trump and Lincoln and some similarities and some stuff that's going on. And you need to give this thing that you kind of talk about and you know, it's kind of on the top of your head.

And a lot of people don't think about this, you know, because there's just so much sort of like when you talk about Trump, it's just, it gets, there's so much. What do you, what do you call the, the Trump triggered people like Trump derangement syndrome? And there's like, no, you can't, you're not allowed to question. There's like derangement syndrome everywhere. And, and there's just a lot of interesting historical stuff. And so he's like, hey, give this

Trump Lincoln speech. And so we have like 400 people sitting on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial and I gave like an hour long speech. So these ideas that I'm, I'll hint at here, we're going to put them up on the channel sometime in the next week or so. But if you look at it and you know, some people like I come across as too friendly to Trump. Some people I come across as too antagonistic to Trump or

whatever. But I'm basically playing the same role towards Trump that the abolitionists play towards Lincoln when Lincoln was running. And so Lincoln, like, if you look, if you're like, where are we at in this whole deal? Lincoln was running as the anti slavery candidate, but he was kind of moderate and he was kind of like, hey, abolitionist, shut up, you're going to screw stuff up for me, Don't don't make me too. And so Douglas in the debates is trying to make Lincoln like an

abolitionist to scare everybody. And so Lincoln has to distance himself from the abolitionist, but he has to also get their votes, like get some of, you know, so he's playing this game. It's very similar to like what Trump has to do. Trump had to kind of be like, listen, I'm not going to take this away, but I'm hey, I did this, you know, and like, it's a very and the, and the culture's divided.

You have the free states, the slave states, all this kind of like people calling for compromise, people saying this, all this kind of stuff. The only thing that I and, and you know, I was telling some guys earlier today, they're like, like literally the question you asked talking about this morning, do we really think that abortion could be abolished in our country in our lifetimes? And I was like, well, let me

just tell you something weird. While Lincoln was campaigning, like in his final year, a 13th Amendment to the Constitution was proposed in order to save the Union.

And the 13th amendment that was originally proposed was to defend slavery in the South forever, like it was going to be in the Constitution. A 13th Amendment that would promise that whatever happens with new States and the northern states, we're not going to take away slavery in the South, you know, below the Mason Dixon line. And it was going to be a constitutional amendment.

And it was proposed as a union saving, you know, keep America great, make America great, sort of, you know, olive branch type thing. Lincoln endorsed it. So he, like, literally endorses it. At the same time, aging John Quincy Adams, you know, he had said that child slavery is America's original sin. And he was kind of becoming more and more radical. He'd become an immediate abolitionist by about this time.

And, you know, a little bit before this, you know, there's a little bit of a timeline sync there. But Lincoln is, while running, you know, pretty clearly white supremacist and kind of not a great guy in a lot of ways that we kind of all know, like Lincoln's. He's like, man, I want to preserve the Union and my way of preserving the Union. Sorry if I'm offending some of your viewers, but deal with it. You don't have to agree with everything I say. That's how it goes.

But but Lincoln is he's, he's kind of a white supremacist, even though he doesn't like slavery, You know, he's, but he's getting accused of being a white supremacist, but he's also getting accused of being like a Negro lover, to put it that way. And he's got a he has to navigate this.

And people in the South are losing their minds over, over his election, over his candidacy, and in the in the losing their minds over the fact that the Supreme Court in the United States is no longer punishing abolitionist and protecting people who, who capture runaway slaves. And stuff's changing and they're all freaking out.

And all the while Lincoln's sitting back and saying, I'm not going to do I, I promise you I'm not going to abolish slavery if I could preserve the Union and keeps like I will. Abolitionists were pressing Lincoln, even the ones that supported him, they were pressing him. And they're like, listen, you need to do this. If you don't do this, there's going to be war. If you don't do this, the war is going to be perpetual. If you don't do this, by the end of the war, there's just going

to be another war. You have to do this. And eventually Lincoln bends to the abolitionist and says, yes, we need a 13th amendment and the 13th amendment has to be to abolish slavery. So in a matter of like 3-4 years, Lincoln goes from the anti slavery, moderate, anti abolitionist candidate who says we need to, you know, just we need to compromise on this to being like, yeah, we need to abolish this. That was very that was very

quick. And what made it happen so quick was the firing on Sumner, the OR the caning of Sumner, the firing on the Fort, You know, the John Brown stuff, all the insanity, the northern, the, I'll call it Northern war of aggression. Like all the stuff, it's just judgement. It was a mess. It was like not the way to get rid of chattel slavery. It was like the wrong, the worst

possible way. But because they had had, you know, 30-40 years of bona fide prophetic people saying, if we don't abolish to slavery, we'll be judged by God. And the pulpit, the press, the politicians, everyone had basically said, you lunatics are out of your mind. God's not going to judge us. Everything's fine.

Sit down, go home, shut up. God had basically, you know, unbeknownst to us, there's a John Brown, you know, saying, telling his abolitionist buddies, Hey, all your preaching and all your moral suasion and all your repent for the Kingdom of God. It's a hand stuff isn't working. They're not repenting. So I'm going to form a militia and I'm going to cause a slave uprising and kind of in his sort of delusional, like I'll be the sword of God. Maybe he wasn't delusional. I don't know.

I don't want to speak for him. I'll be the sword of God.

I will go fight. I will go start this war and the, the, the general for the South hangs John Brown, you know, and the Supreme Court Justice who had to swear in the Supreme Court Justice who wrote the Dred Scott opinion has to swear in Abraham Lincoln. I mean, it's like all this sort of weird prophetic stuff and from John Brown's death to the end of the Civil War somehow, and I'm not a, in case you didn't see it, I'm not a huge fan of Abraham Lincoln.

But somehow in that period, Lincoln went from I don't have anything to do with you radical abolitionist to being like, I have to do with these radical abolitionists because like the country, it's chaos. Well, I don't, I don't want it to be a war. I don't want it to be a war. But I think there's going to be some kind of judgement. And then I think if the abolitionist have done a good enough job to say we are under the judgement of God, we must

repent. When that judgement comes, I think the quickness of OK, let's stop doing this is going to happen. And it comes in a period of, of, of turmoil and, and tumult and so on. And and that makes sense I guess. It's going to suck. I think it's going to suck. It's really going to suck. But it's not going to be our, it's not going to be our fault. It's going to be the fault of the the slow to repent, just the constant delay of the past, you know, 5 decades. Let's take a, let's take a quick

breather. We'll recharge our cups and I want to come back and talk about language. I want to talk about the specifics of it and how you fight the war in kind of that space. So I think there's a lot to be talked about there. So we'll take a quick breather and then we'll we'll jump back into it. Awesome. Hey folks. Thanks for joining us for the program. As you noticed, we just jumped right into it. That seemed like the right thing

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It's Kyle serafinshow.com. These interviews are some of my favorite things to go do. So make sure you've liked, make sure you've shared them, make sure you subscribe wherever you can support the sponsors. If you're in the market for the things that we're selling over there, whether it be coffee, whether it be a cup, whether it be a an outdoor Tumblr or

something like that. Whether you're looking for service to make sure you protect your family, all the different things you can to check them all out in the show description and support our guests if you guys are so inclined too. If this is starting to resonate with you, we're about to get into language. So let's do that right now. We're going to let's talk language, man. Should we do that? Because you use some language that I believe that it is very specific.

And I also think that at this time it is way less controversial than it probably was 15 years ago. But you've used the word baby sacrifice, murder, you're using some pretty charged language. Even abolitionist itself is kind of like a kind of a lean to that. Is that fair? Yeah, I mean, I think. Language as as weapon. Let's talk about language or where that where the battle is culturally with with words.

Yeah. Well, First off, I do remember 15 years ago when I said, you know, just that the, the first catch phrase, like the first, it was like, I want to bring the gospel of the Kingdom of Jesus Christ into conflict with the evil of child sacrifice. And, and the elders at the church were like, could you tone that down? But they couldn't tone it down because the, the pastor was like, he was like a big, you know, warrior.

So he's like, I can't really tell, but I can tell it's kind of like, that's not going to work like calling abortion child sacrifice. And so I was like, OK, it's human abortion, child sacrifice, you know, So I remember saying that and getting told don't do that, and then calling abortion A Holocaust. You can't do that. And I'm like, well, literally the phrase Holocaust was putting

putting babies through the fire. It was the word used to refer to what the ancient Israelites did whenever they put their children into the molten hot hands of a Moloch statue to burn their babies. And God, when he said, I can't believe you put your children through the fire, that's Holocaust, you know, and they use the word referencing from then on to the the Jewish Holocaust. And so they were already using it, you know, an earlier thing and they prefer Showa and all that kind of stuff.

So I was like, yeah, I'm going to use the word Holocaust. But people told it don't use Holocaust. Don't use child sacrifice. And then chief more than those don't use murder and don't use murder was coming not from the left, not from, you know, pro abortion people. It was coming from pro lifers. Don't call it murder. Why? Well, because it's off putting. We're trying to reach these people. You're trying to save their babies. Don't tell them they're murderers.

And I'm like, that's what they are like. Tell the tell the freaking truth. Like they people who murder their children are murderers. The act of abortion is murder. If we don't call it murder. We're educating the culture to believe it's not murder. And there and then they'd feedback loot me and they'd say, yeah, but people don't think it's murder. And so it's going to be shocking. OK. You know why they don't think

it's murder? Because all your mis education like you're telling him it's not murder. Like when you write language like the first time that we put forward language, you know, is an initiative petition to put abortion is murder. It should be abolished on the ballot in Oklahoma. And the ACLU sued. And, you know. And I went to the Oklahoma Supreme Court and. Lost that that. Case you know, you know, because Roe V Wade said that it already been settled, but that was abortion is murder.

It's the intentional destruction of human beings in the womb. It should be abolished. The laws against murder should be applied equally to all people. A senator in the Oklahoma freshman senator, Oklahoma State Senate had a heartbeat bill and he is like, you know what heartbeat bill kind of weak. I'm going to go with this.

And he gutted his heartbeat bill protect babies that have heartbeats gutted it floor Subs. It had already passed through committee a floor substitute it he took our petition language that the ACLU had kept us from collecting signatures for took that language, put it into the bill. And so is abortion is homicide. And and that ended up, you know, getting ignored on the Senate floor because it was a, you know, pro-life, conservative dominated Senate and they

weren't going to do that. And it was, it was too harsh. Don't call it murder. And so that was 2016. But a lot of the sort of pro-life leaders across the country, we're kind of like saying you can't do this. It'll never stick, it'll never work. And would have like recommendations like on their websites when you go out and you're holding signs, don't say abortion is murder. And and, and big conflicts don't abortion is killing, but it's not murder.

And I was always like, why? And it's well, it's because if it's murder, you can't write language, you can't write legislation calling abortion murder, because if you do that, then all of a sudden it's a homicide issue.

And so that the the bills, all the pro-life bills were Health and Human services issues regulating like, you know, where abortion clinics were, you know, put and with the size of their hallways and what you had to do before you got the abortions, like look at an ultrasound, have these kinds of instruments, have this kind of degree, this kind of license, all this kind of stuff. None of it was in the homicide code. And so abolitionist, we're like,

it's murder. It should be treated as murder. They didn't want to call it murder because that would like open up that can of worms of all of their legislation fights abortion without fighting it as murder. And so they were doing again, this namby pamby, politically correct, more compassionate than Christ, fighting abortion without calling abortion murder or child sacrifice.

So they said it was stupid that no organization doing that would ever gain any traction and that no legislator would ever carry that kind of bill. Like, I mean, I literally was in an e-mail exchange with the leader of Students for Life of America who said, yeah, abortion is murder. And you know that that is what they should write, but they'll never write it. You'll never find a legislator who does that and then found one. And it's like, you know, and we don't even allow people to put

that on their signs. And slowly but surely over 15 years, you've seen more and more, you know, establishment pro-life groups easing up, allowing abortion to be murder more and more, calling it child sacrifice, connecting it to ancient child sacrifice, all kind of stuff. But I, I'm, I'm going too quick again.

But if I can back up child sacrifice, like literally all nations in rebellion to God over time, anytime you've had a nation that's sort of like at odds with King Jesus, they practice child sacrifice in their people and they allow it in their laws. Our nation obviously not following God practices child sacrifice, allows it in our laws. We call it abortion and we've sterilized it. And we don't like have, well, sometimes we do, but we don't generally have, you know,

statues of demons around. But the people. Chances. Yeah, well, I mean, it's funny. It's like if you actually go and you like, if you, if you could get into and like just visit all the receptionist of all the Planned Parenthood's across the United States of America, you'd be stunned at how many of them are like Wiccans and witches and all this kind of stuff. I mean, it's, it's nothing has changed. We just sterilized it and have perfected it. And so it is child sacrifice.

It's the same thing. Like people want more grain, more, better, you know, abundance of crops and all that kind of stuff like rain, whatever. They want a better life. And they look at their situation and they have a certain amount of money and they can only feed two kids or one kid. So the other kids got to die. It's the same thing. It's just we're a modern, enlightened, secular, humanistic scientific culture. So we don't call it, you know, child sacrifice to demons.

We, we call it, you know, my, my means to liberty and, you know, whatever women's rights, all kind of stuff. Reproduction, yeah. And we've also. Commercialized it in a way that it's, it's, it's gone through the same thing. The Industrial Revolution dead, right. I mean, you can, it's industrialized. It's there's a whole now we can make money off it. People are making money off it.

They're selling off the parts. They're, you know, it's like slaughtering the Buffalo, except it's actual people. And yeah. Yeah, but it's, it's mass. You know, if there's a, there's a certain sense where you have these really big organizations that have kind of perfected it that, you know, like you can, if you live in Oklahoma and you want to get an abortion, it's the easiest. It's easier now than it ever has been.

You just get on Google, you type in I, I live in a, a pro-life RedState. There are no abortion freestanding abortion mills. What do I do? Oh, here's pills like we order them like for free all the time. Like we like abolitionist in Oklahoma or Texas or wherever where it's been banned. We'll get online and order abortion pills. You get them, you know, three to five days, you can get them from India or the last time that I ordered abortion pills, I got them from Austin, TX for free.

And so it's kind of it's, it's, it's just so perfected that you used to have to kind of like go to a place, set up an appointment and follow all these regulations. And now you just get online like anything in our culture, order it and it's there and you take it in the, in the comfort of your home. But it's the same thing. It's the malice aforethought, which is what makes it murder. It's like the I peed on a stick. It said I'm pregnant, I am with child. I don't want to be with child

right now. I'm allowed to kill them. I won't be allowed to kill them after they're born. So I can kill them now I can do it for 300 to 600, whatever dollars or free, you know, if I, if I reach out to some, you know, liberal group that's like, you know, that's they're they're they're gaining their fulfillment in life by making abortion pills available to whoever wants them. And it's just, it's just that easy. So we have perfected the practice of child sacrifice.

We call it abortion. And that's that whole charade needs to be dismantled. So that's why I mean, I probably call abortion child sacrifice more often than I call it abortion, but I make sure that I also call it abortion or human abortion so that people know that I'm not fighting, you know, some other kind of, you know, putting a child on a stone and stabbing it type type thing. The other the other one. I I won't really deal with Holocaust. I already kind of did abolitionist itself.

The reason that you have to have a term like abolitionist is there's it destroys the ambiguity. Like if I say I'm a pro lifer, say the debate comes up about abortion and you ask people and someone says I'm pro-life, that it really doesn't tell you. It tells you what they would. That's their moral opinion. Like in the option of choosing abortion or not choosing abortion, I am pro. I'm on the side of life, right? But I could be personally

pro-life. I could be pro-life for me, but not necessarily for you or the other side, which I see all the time. The pro choicers, they're actually making an argument that they are pro-life, they're pro the life of the mother. Like they're pro women. And they think that women are not free unless they are allowed to terminate their pregnancies, kill their children. And so they consider themselves doing something that's pro the life they want to protect. And so you don't really know.

And so a pro-choice and a pro-life, both of those being pro pro-choice, pro-life are both in agreement that abortion is a choice and that it is something that is there that we're not taking away, but we are trying to recommend. Like if you listen to pro-life rhetoric, it's choose life, you know, like what? You shouldn't have that choice. And so because all of this was happening and I was doing the history historical stuff and I just, I loved man, I loved the

abolitionist of slavery. I know some people like probably have some bones to pick with them about some things, some pacifism stuff or some theological things and whatever, you know, get in the weeds about all that. But I, I, I truly looked at these men and admired them.

They were they were willing to fight for their disregarded neighbors, fellow image bearers, even if they themselves, we're going to lose everything for it. Like people who could have been Prime Minister deciding, no, I'm going to I'm going to put forward bills to abolish the slave trade every year for 20 years like William Wilberforce. And so I was like, I really admired these these men. And I was like, OK, I want to be

like these abolitionists. So that was one of the reasons kind of leaning towards that name. But it wasn't just like a this is rhetorically powerful. It was it's, it's technically accurate. Like there are laws that allow the like in the murder code, it says you're not allowed to murder except by legal abortion.

The law had to be abolished. When you look at the Declaration of Independence, when in the course of human events, governments are established that do not uphold the inherent innate, the inalienable rights to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, property, like when governments allow people to steal and kill, those governments need to be altered or abolished. You know, so I'm like, OK, this

is our founding document. Like if there was a, you know, like the Declaration of Independence is an abolitionist document. They're literally abolishing the previous government and starting a new one. And so I'm like, there's so much strength. And then whenever someone asks you what is your position on abortion and you say I'm an abolitionist, yes, people might be like, wait, doesn't have to something to do with slavery.

But immediately you've got the table set to talk about, you know, that image of God stuff that we were talking about. You got the good historical connection to to to men and women who fought the good fight and won. You've got all that, the historical, philosophical, cultural stuff. And then when it comes down to it, you've got the technical strength of these laws need to be abolished. And I'm not calling for the regulation of abortion. I'm calling for the abolition of

abortion. I'm not calling for, you know, the gradual, you know, the sort of like the incremental decreasing of abortion. I'm calling for its total and utter abolition. And so yeah, it, it was a very purposeful, all those reasons and more, if you believe me. But all those reason, it's like we're going to go with abolitionist because no one's going to be confused.

You can be a personally pro-life person, but it, when you're saying you're an abolitionist, you're not saying what just what you want, you're saying what should be done for everybody else. Like that law, that practice should be abolished. So you're not it's so it kills

the ambiguity. And so that's why we went with abolitionist early on. I was very the the final thing and I'll kind of set up for another question is that in the early days, like I wanted to be very specific about abolishing human abortion and pref putting a preference on the word human instead of on person because one, there are non human persons like Satan and dolphins. Maybe not. Maybe dolphins aren't persons. Dolphins and chimps and aliens

you know there are non human. You got to have for that. I saw it. It was right next time. Let me put that back for the aliens. For the non human persons. Yeah, there's non human persons, but no one doubts that, you know, there's non human persons. Like at least Christians, like Satan is a person. If you doubt that Satan's a person, you're a heretic. You know he's a person. And you know angels are persons. Jesus has always been a person, but in the incarnation he became

human. So human beings are made in the image of God. And so I want it and I still do, the stress that it is our humanness, our being made in the image of God that makes us unmurderable or that should prohibit our murder. Because an attack on a human is an attack on God, whereas an attack on a cow is not an attack on God. It's the attack. It's, you know, it's killing a creature, but it's a creature that can be killed because it's not a made in the image of God.

So because of the incarnation of Christ that elevated humans and because of the image of God that elevates humans. So very specifically, it's about our humanity that makes abortion something that should be totally prohibited. And if you go with human instead of person, you don't have to fight the battles about like when personhood begins.

Personhood can be attached to, you know, once you have a personality, once you have utility, once you have conscious thoughts or self actualization, you know, so you can start saying like when does a human become a person? And I'm like, well, biblically speaking, philosophically speaking, a human never becomes a human.

A human is always a human. So there's a robustness to that philosophically that allows you to protect human embryos before implantation and tons of abortions happen to human embryos before implantation or human embryos before they, they look like us. So, so choosing to make it about our, our, our humanness, our image of God bearing quality over our person, our personhood status was a was a conscious choice early on. So that's why you hear a lot of

abolitionists will generally say human abortion frequently. So there's a lot of other things, but all these words are it is weapons. It is, it is if you can create, if you can create the situation where you have pro lifers, pro choicers and abolitionists, all of a sudden you've set up an opportunity for people to, you know, have to like, repent, have to change their paradigm. They have to go from pro-life to

abolition. If you don't come up with a term, you just have this sort of like you just have this, well, all these different kinds of pro lifers and that you're constantly, well, I'm pro-life without exception or pro-life without compromise, you know, pro-life with exceptions and all

this kind of stuff. So wanted to create that position and bid people to, you know, assess it and either accept it or reject it. All right, I've got an idea in my head that I'm going to try to flesh out into to to verbage when we talk about things in the military, which is a frame of reference I keep. We've got combatants and non combatants. You can still be in the military

and not be a combatant, right? You could be a cook, you could be an admin person, you could be finance, logistics, you could be a mechanic and so on. But there's a certain group of people, a certain subset. Usually it's a 12 to one ratio, what they call it tooth to tail. Most people in the movement in the military are actually not involved in combat. Most people are involved in preparing and supporting the

eventual warfighter. We're hearing this focus with this, this new administration talking about going back to the warfighter P tech set and so on, which I enjoy that kind of that thing. For me, it's very interesting hearing you speak, specifically choosing words that are weapons, being a combatant in the way that you engage and the fact that there's a a lot of pro-life groups that I've seen that maybe I've been to. I've been to the March for Life. I've listened to the speeches they had.

It is very, very heavy on the female end of things and a lot of them are not combatants, not the way that you just described it. Yeah, they're actually looking for ways to. Yeah, ameliorationist to you. One of the things that I've seen so strange, I guess, in my last Psalm 43, so in the, in the 43 years in the planet of which I've been alert for, let's call it, I don't know, 30 something of them. There's an imbalance right now in the masculine and the feminine for our country.

And it does seem like maybe some of the, the traction that you guys have gotten must come from men going like, hey, man, we've been sitting on the sidelines. We haven't been participating. This was, you know, not our thing. 100%. It's time to get involved. This is a war. You use the words murder and killing, which is interesting. I'm going to throw something at you which is not it doesn't fit

the paradigm that you have. It's just something for you to chew on and maybe, maybe it maybe it it catches you later. I had a buddy with a green Beret, like a really capable green Beret, straight up killer. No other way to say it. And and a good person, like a solid moral ground. And at one point in time I said, you know, I want to I want to get into the military because I just want to go just just murder

evil out there in the world. He goes, no, no, no, Murder is a crime and it's it's done by amateurs. Killing is what professionals do. And there actually is a sort of a nuance, I think to speaking about what it's gone from. I think, I think maybe abortion started off as murder, but now it's killing because of the way that they do it and the sophistication and the professionality of it and the and the industrialization that

we talked about. Just something for you to chew on. I have no idea whether that hits you right. It has hit me immediately. I would say one thing without going off on too much of A trail, there is that a lot of times people say, well, who do you think should be punished? The abortionist or the the parents? And traditionally pro lifers are like the abortionist should be punished because they they're the ones doing the killing. The parents shouldn't.

And I'm like, this is totally, this is, well, it's stupid when you really think about how stupid. Perfect analogy. How about hit? Yeah, they are hit men and they're hired. So the abortionist is not actually waking up in the morning, pulling on their pants, grabbing their abortion instruments and going out in the culture, finding a baby to kill. They actually put up a sign, but, you know, make their services available and people bring their little human beings

to them to be murdered. So the actual murder is being carried out. In the heart and in the mind of the mother, the father, whoever the people who bring the child to the abortionist and the abortionist is in sort of your framework, he's doing the killing. He's the hired correct killer. And and so I think there's something definitely helpful there.

But the the for for me, murder does require that Mens Rea, that malice aforethought and and it it doesn't mean that you're like mean malice, you know, it just means you have the the intention to terminate this human, even if it's. We have degrees of murder in in all of our murder codes. So just as I'm thinking through this and, and the analogy to it, right, it's pretty clear. And, and as you said, one person is a hired killer. Yeah, right.

That is a professional. That's just, that's, yeah, it's we even think about it. We're like, what about a hitman? Like that's a professional. Like we make movies about these people. Yeah, they can be good guys. Yeah, they can be good guys in our movies. They're. Heroes, but they're, they're like anti heroes if we're being totally on right, but they're doing, they're killing for good or they're killing for the right reasons or something. I don't know.

But you know, we, we have killers that we have in our employed by our government that need to be there. Like they go overseas and they, they stop evil in its tracks regularly. I've got friends who said, you know, if you saw what these people did, dropping a bomb on them is the best thing that could happen for the world. And you go, you go I'm. That's hard to argue against because there's some real evil and.

It's really important to, to, to say that there's a difference between killing and murder, especially whenever you're, you know, when you're dealing with people on the streets, they, they, they always will. Like, you know, and I know different people are in different places. I'm for capital punishment. I have no problem with it. And so a just society is going to put to death, kill like the government is going to kill rapists and murderers.

And we know people who are duly tried and executed by the state. The state's bearing a sword of justice to do justice to evildoers. And our culture, like wants to kill, like wants to allow the government is supposed to allow people to kill their children and protect murderers. It's just flipped. And I and I always say like, well, I think that the murderers forfeit of their lives, they

should be put to death. You know, if I could just get you to take the same hatred that you have for babies and put it against the murderers, we, we would, we'd be on the same page. And a lot of these, you know, they always bring up what about the rape exception and all this kind of stuff. And you're like, oh, yeah, I'm all for, I'm all for putting rapists to death. And they're like, what?

And I'm like, yeah. And they're like, oh, they were bringing it up because they were trying to come up with a way to justify abortion, like bringing it. And I'm like, they never. It's like it's net. Like I've done this for so many years, talked to so many hundreds of people, heard the what about rape over and over and over and over again. I always ask, you know, it's probably annoying to the video editors. They're like, yeah, this, this makes the same short, you know,

this makes the same video. It's like I always ask, is there anyone else that you would like like we're you're bringing this up? Is there like the baby? I'm saying the baby should be protected. Is there anyone else that you want to talk about? They never bring up the rapist. It's like they like need there to be rapist so that they can justify abortion. It's it's insane. So I like to if fully embrace justice. It's all just it's about justice. Like, yes, I want to save lives.

I want to save babies. I want to, you know, you know, the little, little precious children. There's that whole appeal. But like going back to what you kind of said, there's a sort of like feminine approach of like, let's fight abortion by talking. Like you see these billboards of like beautiful little babies. It's always born babies like smiling, giggling, dribbling little dimples and red hair hair color was, you know, just determined at conception.

Save a life little born baby cute pink, blue butterflies like an American, like a like a baby wrapped in an American flag being carried by an eagle and you know, flowers like it's like that's like the pro-life movement and. Feels good. It feels good to people that that that are gentle. Yeah, save babies. And like The Who, who doesn't want to save babies? And then the abolitionists come along and they're like, do justice, like bear the sword of justice against evil doers.

So it is like it's, it's, it's another one of these just dramatically different. And I do want, I do want to touch on it because it, this, this is, you know, I would say in the, in the modern abolitionist movement, it is probably when you talk about rank and file members of abolitionist groups, people who watch our videos, people who participate in our missions and our conferences, It's, it's half

and Half Men and women. But you know what, on the stage, you know, who's talking men, it's men, you know, who's out there like, you know, holding the signs and doing stuff and writing the literature and determining, like, I mean, some women write the literature and do graphic design and all kind of stuff. But like, it's as far as like the strategy, the deployment of, you know, the missions and how we do, what we do and why we do it in the way that we do in the

words that we choose, It's men. And we don't have like, this concern coming along saying, well, our culture is real feminist. And like, we need to like, we'll, we'll get it. I'll get messages like, hey, I, I'm, I see this ad for your conference here in North Carolina and you've got 12 speakers and they're all men. Don't you think maybe you should have some women? And I'm like, well, no, I mean, honestly, I have no problem with

women speaking. And, you know, I'm not one of these women aren't, you know, shut up. Get in the kitchen. I'm not that bad guy, but. Unless you want to be in the kitchen. My wife wants to be in the kitchen. That's where she goes. That's why we we. Want to have a conversation with my wife? I've got to go stand. I've got to stand near the oven. That's her freaking office. That's her office. My office is here. Her office is there. I think it's so funny that people think that this was not

like, like nobody forced. Maybe, maybe that's historically the president, but I don't actually know that because I just am educated by television to show me what the historical thing look like. The whole concept of being barefoot and, and, and, and pregnant in the kitchen. Like that's a choice that my mother, that my wife would make. Like she was like, hey, where do you want to be? Like, I want to be working here. I like softer floors if possible. And I want to go work.

I've got all my tools. I've got my babies around me. She educates in the kitchen. She nurtures in the kitchen, She creates in the kitchen. She's baking, she's doing nutrition. You know, we're teaching my my little kids. I've got, I've got 4, yeah. And, and, and they say the funniest things, like my, my son is 4 years old and he was like when I'm bigger and he goes, when I'm get bigger, I'm going to be a dad and then I'm going

to have big knives. It's like, OK, like you're going to be a dad and you're going to have big knives. Like I'm down with that. Like all of that is good. And my daughters will talk about like when they were young and they're like 3 years old. They're like, how many babies are you going to have? They're like, we're going to have 12 babies. Like that's a lot of work. We want that for you. We'll be there to help. Yeah, you. You know, natural. There. It's how we're designed.

And here's the thing, when there's something that makes a noise outside, that's my job. My wife and I used to laugh before we even had kids, you know, there'd be a noise in the house and she'd be like, I just heard something. I go, what was it? She goes, I don't know. Will you check it out? Yes. And you go kill that. Thing, look, that's what I signed up to be. I signed up to be the guy that goes and checks out what goes bump in the night. That's my job. My job is not, you know, she's

the one who's right now. We were just talking about this on the during the week on the podcast and it was like she's sleeping on a couch upstairs because we're potty training some of our kids to try to wake up in the middle of night and pee. I, I don't, I don't have that like ability. I actually don't like I'm I'll be a useless the next day. She's able to function and still be compassionate. We actually have different roles. Your role is combat.

And clearly, I mean, you've even even the can you describe the, the logo for people that are just listening to this? That's that's over your shoulder. So like, oh, OK. What do we see in there? Because it looks. Like I can't see my shot. It's. Like flames in a mountain to me. Yeah, so, so we've got. Or a bear claw. I can't. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The ones we've been accused sometimes of all of our imagery and symbolism and stuff is very masculine, you know, it's all very, you know, and I and I'm literally like a history, philosophy, art guy, you know, but I'm still a man. But anyway, with the beard, yeah, I got, you know, I got a, I'm the patriarchy, apparently. But the so it's, it's a, it's a visual representation of a 19th century quote that we, we have need to be all on fire for their mountains of ice all around us

to melt. So it's a reference to the apathy and the indifference. So abolitionists and in the 19th century were told to stop being so harsh, you know, so Garrison, you know, famously whenever he unfurled his, you know, the banner of the Liberator and he started publishing his abolitionist paper that was going to take a a radically different tone and approach total and immediate abolitionist shadow slavery instead of gradual colonizationist

incremental schemes. He said I will be harsh as truth and as uncompromising as justice. And so the idea was whenever someone's, you know, if someone's like raping your wife, you're not going, you know, she's going to give a moderate alarm. You're not going to come in and be like, excuse me, Sir, you know, you're going to going to put an end to it. You know, the, the idea that whenever some evil is being done, that you would approach it with a soft tone almost sort of

makes that evil less evil. So the abolitionists were told, stop being so harsh. Stop calling slavery a crime because you call it a crime. That's saying all these people that are practicing this are criminals and that's not the way to reach them, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. So he said the reason we have to be as harsh as truth is we have to be agitators. So they embrace the role.

The country had become very just tolerant, like even the people that weren't practicing chattel slavery, we're tolerating it. We did accepted it and it just did become something sort of like a necessary evil like it's going on in the South. But all the textile factories in the North, they needed the cotton. You know, it's always like a partnership and a toleration. And so the the agitator, the dissident in this culture of death was told to, to, to calm

down. And he said, no, we have to agitate, agitate, agitate if we stop agitating. We're part of the problem. And so the mountains of ice represent the apathy. Like you've got this mountain, but it's frozen. It's like, think about it as the church. You got all these professing Christians that just seem to be just cold. Their hearts are cold. They're frozen, you know, or maybe they're lukewarm, but like they're against it, but they're

not. Like they're not living or acting as though children are being murdered or in their context, children are being sold away from their fathers and mothers, that families are being destroyed. So we must be fire so that those mountains of ice can melt. And in in ours you've got the the mountain of ice being melted, melted by fire. And under the low, under the words abolitionist rising, you have the sort of melt. And in the melt you have the AHA symbol, abolish human abortion.

So in a right side, right side up a abolish. And then you have two eyes, image of God, incarnation of Christ, value of humans and then an upside down a for So if you can see it, AHAI don't know if it, you can see it there. So abolish human abortion, which is a abolitionist symbol that's to from 2010, but it's incorporated in that's a symbol for abolitionist, but it's incorporated into our logo because there's a difference between logos and symbols.

The symbol can be used by anyone who adopts abolitionist ideas, but since we adopt those abolitionist ideas from the earlier time and other people use that aha symbol themselves. So we're just saying we're an abolitionist organization. But one last thing on the on the feminine and masculine thing, because I think I said it and then we kind of went off into, you know, talking about our wives in the kitchen, which is good. Is that when the demand to like

have female speakers? Like I do think there's a play. There's like one of the best books written on this topic is called Post Row Reformation. And it's by an abolitionist named Kayla Suderman. It's available on Amazon. It's just post row Reformation. It's dealing with, OK, so Roe's been repealed. What needs to happen, You know, looking at the the rise of the abolitionist movement, Well, she's she's a female author, you know, she's very active in the

abolitionist movement. There are lots of women that are very active in the abolitionist movement. You know, they're probably as active or more active in some of the chats that I'm in, you know, where, you know, they're just very active. They're, they're holding signs, they're going on the marches, they're passing out the literature, they're doing all the stuff, you know, they're working in various ways that they are.

But those female abolitionist love and appreciate that men lead, that men are on the bullhorns and holding the signs. When you look at the pro-life movement, and I know we've been very critical of them, and I'm not saying all pro lifers are like this, but when you look at the pro-life movement, when you look at all these groups, Students for Life of America, female leader, live action female leader, right? Susan B Anthony, female leader, March for Life, female.

It's like they have all believed that they have to actually meet this cultural requirement. Like you can't talk about abortion unless you have a uterus. That's insane. That's, that's what the pro choicers say. You can't talk about abortion unless you're a woman. It's like, no, this is a human rights justice issue. That's what this is, and men should be leading the way in seeking to establish justice.

But if it's about saving babies and being compassionate and running a daycare for babies that were going to be aborted or something like that, you have women lead that. But that's not the sort of thing you need to establish justice. You're provoking and you're going to provoke. I mean, I have to imagine you provoke some violence or some physical at least threat at the very end of it. So that's that's where I, I don't want women to face that.

I like there's crazy people out there, which we both see. I mean, I've seen it on some of your videos. I've seen it just in the world and in my previous life. There's some real nutty people that have some real wild ideas that they think they can get away with physically. I wonder if we. Got right now. Right now I've got a lecture scheduled. Sorry, sorry, this is so this is appropriate. Sorry, we have AI have a lecture in April 24th or something.

I I don't know. I wish I could give a good plug here, but I'm giving a talk at Eastern Tennessee University for students for abolition and Turning Point USA student groups there and I'm giving a talk on abolition and, and a student like, I mean, I think he's a graduate student who works for the IT department in Eastern Tennessee. Got online and wrote, I'm going to Luigi Mangino this guy, come watch me Luigi Mangino this guy when he comes to campus.

Well, he, he pulled that death threat down, you know, a few minutes after he put it up. But some cops somewhere or somebody saw it, you know, And so we get a message and it's kind of like, I'm going to give a talk at a university and do some activism. And before I get on the airplane and fly there to give that talk, I have to deal with the fact that there's a person there that says he's going to kill me, right? I'm still going to go give the talk. For sure.

Right. Well, now, what if it was Abolitionist Rising was, you know, being led by, you know, mother of, you know, 4 kids, you know, who's, you know, got to, got to go to this, got to deal with this death threat. That's not for her. That's not her space. That's not what's going on and that's not what's psychologically she's built to deal with and all that kind of

stuff. You know, they may pretend, you know, you know, I, I feel bad because, you know, Kristen Hawkins is getting it pretty hard in your show here. But you know, she's, she's yeah. That's another thing. You set yourself up to be the leader of an organization. You got to take Flack. You got to take Flack and criticism and all this kind of stuff.

It's just regular. You can't throw a fit and be like, stop being mean to me. You mean abolitionist, you know, but that's the way they act towards us, because they're women being women and sorry. So I'm enjoying this only because I'm going to one. I'll catch some pay for it too, which makes me laugh. I get women that listen to this. The other thing is the women that listen to my program on a regular basis kind of understand. It's like this is what we're built for.

You're you're clearly built very similar to me. We were talking, you know, kind of on break where it was like we can do this for about 12 hours and we could probably go on and provoke, you know, a bunch of really upset people anywhere I live outside of Austin. If you ever want to come here and have some fun with me, like I'll go down and I'll go down and head by people for you. Like, I don't know, I don't

care. Like if they want to get physical with you, like you don't get to get physical, use your brain or I'm going to use my melon missile and we're going to, you know, catch you off guard. Men are built for conflict. That that's that's who the best combatants are. That's why I use the word combatant. And when people always, they'll they'll apologize to me. They're like, oh, I'm so sorry that you're taking all this flat. You're like, no, no, I'm on the field.

This is where the hits happen. What if it's not coming? I'm not doing what I'm supposed to be doing. I'm not doing the proper agitation if I'm not getting people who are going to shill for a fill in the blank position that is antithetical to mine. It doesn't matter if it's about guns or civil liberties or whether it's about, you know, limited government. Like I'm saying my thing properly. Someone's pissed and I don't care. Like and. They're going to get up in your face.

Let them. Some ladies that come out that like will go out and you know, hold signs and stuff and you know something, you see the videos and it's just like me. But there's, there's usually I, I am very rarely out there just by myself. There's usually a group and the ladies that one lady she's, she's very important to the movement. She helps run sort of like our administration stuff here with abolitionists rising. Well, she goes out and she does, you know, holds a sign hands

material out. We'll talk to people and everything like that. But back when she was a pro lifer and she was working for a pro-life organization, they want, they were like sort of like fostering and wanting her to be as combative and as fearless and as willing to like mix it up on a college campus as the guys. And that was kind of like expected and, you know, kind of like play that role and let's get it and let's put it on film and let's make a big deal out of it.

Like look at these pro-life women heroes. Well, here kind of resetting her brain from that previous sort of milieu or whatever you call it environment. She's like, listen, when we go out, like you guys are like, we're like doing this. We're surrounded by all these like some people that seem like literal demons. They're like yelling and spitting and throwing things.

And like, you may be comfortable and I am like, I'm not bragging, but I am I, I, you know, I'm pretty like, it doesn't matter that much that, you know, there's people all over the place. It's my wife watches it and she's just like, honey, like, why were you that guy said, say Jesus one more and say Jesus's name one more time and you're going to meet your maker. And he's got brass knuckles. And of course I'm not like a big buff guy.

And I'm just like, well, Jesus love, you know, Jesus loves you and he's like messing with brass knuckles. And I'm like, I just don't like. I just, whatever reason I don't have that fear component because I think that a lot of these guys are cowards. I don't want to provoke them to be jerks, you know, but that being. Said you also have now how many years and years of experience of them generally not getting physical with you. Like, yeah, that's generally going to be the exception.

And you know that and you get kind of comfortable with it and that if you have to take a punch or something like that, it's not going to the end of the world. It's, it's something your brother did to you because you, you cheered for the wrong team, you know? But a man taking, you know, throwing a punch at a woman is a different animal all together. Like that equals orbital. Like I've done that call, you know, that equals orbital fractures and you know.

It's yeah, yeah. You don't want to see that. And so when you put these women on the front lines. And so again, they're bringing up the Kristen Hawkins. Seems like seems like a nice lady. Nice lady, but she's like defending herself and someone was attacking her. Like why aren't you at home with your children? And she's like my husband's at home with the children. Doing a good job, you know, raising. Them and I'm just like, I'm like, what are you? What are you freaking doing?

You're trying to out feminist, the feminist and it's it's a losing battle and it's not right anyway. Can we just, can we dig into this for one second? Just I just. Yeah, like it is a it is definitely a massive problem that OK, Yeah, the pro-life and the abolition movement are fighting right now. Like there is conflict and some of it ends up being like, you guys are being too mean and too male like, and they don't know.

It's like, I want to debate like I want to debate Kristen Hawkins about the ideology of abolitionism and its application. Can I, can I moderate that? I would have very much enjoyed. I mean, we'll have to get a female moderator too, so that it's like. You know, balance the field, Yeah. Something yeah, because I'm I can be fair, but I already lean. It wouldn't look fair. It's like a a male moderator. But yeah, yeah. So well let you and your wife, I would very do it in your kitchen.

No, my wife is more aggressive. She's like a freaking Attila the hunt man. I accidentally converted my wife to being like really aggressive. And when I say I did, she just did it to herself because she's a reasonable rational creature. We had this conversation a long time ago. She was a leftist. She was pro abortion. She and I was ambivalent. Honestly. I just wasn't strong one way or another. Just it didn't enter into my lexicon.

I had other problems in my world that I was worried about, you know, and so we had this weird conversation about taxes and I said, I just, I don't like big government. I don't like paying big taxes. Your mom makes a bunch of money. She pays like $0.50 out of every dollar into taxes and she goes, you're kidding me. I go, no, no, no. We have a progressive tax structure in this country. The more you make, the higher percentage on that money you

make. So at this point in time, your mom's paying a ton of money into into taxes. You feel good about that? And she goes, well, we should all just pay the same percentage into taxes. I said that's called a flat tax. You're the most right wing person in this room now. How do you feel about that? I know that's how people naturally think. Yeah. So once you once you start realizing. Like oh wait a minute, people will have to pay more on the more.

Money And so she started doing that and literally a couple of months later, she's like everybody in Mexico just wants to be in the United States. I'm like, I don't know about everybody, but some people do. She goes, why don't we just conquer them all the way down to the Panama Canal? Just start a like a firm land barrier. I'm like, I'm like, we could do it. You were really conservative. Yeah, that move really hard. Really fast, like that was a quick move.

That was a fast brush fire. But all that is to say. Like she couldn't moderate it. There is a there's this instinct to be nice, right? To play nice, to be nice if we want people to play with us. And I keep hearing that it's really important that we have female voices. Someone keeps telling us that that's the case. Just lost your camera dipping down aggressively. Sorry. There it is, messing with it. I see that. Well, sorry. By our other techs so so we. Got a we?

We got a tech in. Another room says, hey, this is a shot. Maybe it's my? Posture. No, I like it. I think it's good. We're good. So consider this one though. There's a lot. Of voices in the quote UN quote conservative. Sphere I just, I, I covered Julie Kelly earlier this week. I actually, I colored covered Megyn Kelly and she said we need to make room for women with jobs and this kind of thing. I also feel like that is a divide that is happening right now. You want men to marry women?

That women also want to stand on their own 2 feet and do their thing? Do you guys, you know, we're dependent on each other, are we not? I mean, isn't it if you don't have mutual? Dependence your relationship doesn't actually like Why do you? I like the I mean, behind every good man, there's a great woman. Like it's the intended way. Like a man who's going to battle needs a help, mate. Like it literally like it's the oldest thing in the world.

Like, like Adam's got this job and he's supposed to like name these animals and tend this garden and he's got a helpmate. Like, like he's got a woman that he's to love and have relationship with and she's providing a, a role to him and it's because he needs her. Like it's not, I mean, there, there's a sense where my wife is in a lot of ways stronger than I am. Like clearly, like she's stronger than I am, maybe even like sort of stronger.

And, and I'll, and I'll make it clear here in a second, but like less lazy, less prone to sort of like laying in bed. Like she's like going to get up and get the kids ready in a way that I'm going to meander towards. And so like this, this kind of weird like thing that she's built for and she does well. And also whenever I may sort of want to, I don't know, sort of like not flounder, but like, I may want to slack off or something.

Like I may want to take it easy, but she knows what I do, what I stand for, and what I'm all about. Like she's like, you're all about, you know, shifting this paradigm and leading people to do these things and like stop

being lazy. And she's like, she like helps me. And whenever I'm like weary and worn out and I come home and I come home to a house that, you know, she's keeping in order and kids that she's, you know, educating and keeping fed and like all that, you know, like I can come home to this house that's prepared. Like she may have in that day worked as hard or harder than me on the task of the day and I come home.

To it and it. Allows me to like be refreshed, recharged because I may be going back out into the battle, if you will, the next morning. And you know, my, you know, at times be tempted not to. And she's like, no, I've got this, I got this going on. I do this so you can do that and it's beautiful and it works and it works well.

And I, and I look at other people's, I'm not going to be critical of anyone by name or anything, but I like sometimes look at people's marriages and I look at what's going on in, in their houses and stuff. And you know, some guy is like going out and he's doing all this activism and there's friction and like she doesn't want him to. And like, you know, it just seems, it seems out of order.

And it's like, well, because your wife's like working, you know, and, and you know, like, she's like looking at you like, like work like me and do like, and it's, it's, it's just, it's just all out of, out of whack. And the abolitionist movement ends up being whenever I, you know, tie back to what we were saying, there are tons of women in our movement who are like, almost like finding peace in the fact that they are serving this, they're part of this movement. They're not voiceless.

They're not, you know, not allowed to, like, be in the chats or in the discussions, hold the signs, wear the shirts, drop the cards. But they're not expected to be on the front lines. Well, they're not expected to be men. Yeah. And they're not expected to be getting the death threats.

They're not expected. To. To be like, like, as I was talking about Rachel, like she's like, hey, when we go out, you may not think about your head being on a swivel like, but we, we need a guy that's like that's doing security because it's hard to engage and talk to people because there's like women out there that want to come up and talk and they might see me and they don't want to talk to me and they'll go talk to a female abolitionist that and that's fine. That's good.

But like, it's very hard for them to do that work when they're also thinking someone could throw like, you know, a bottle at my head right now or, you know, like, I'm, I'm worried about that. And so I'm not worried about that. And she knows that I'm not worried about that. So she says, listen, can we have somebody before we go out into these crazier situations that is work and security. That's that's looking at these things and she's thinking about it properly.

Like my wife, she doesn't, she does not go out and do activism. Like she doesn't feel like she has to or that if she doesn't go out and do activism, she's not an abolitionist. Like she doesn't look at it that way. She's like failing to be an abolitionist. Like she, she's being an abolitionist because she's making it to where her husband can do these things. You know, we, we take our kids, they can only do it a certain

amount of time. And you know, she allows me to do it a little bit and then, you know, they go off with mom. You know, we, we were doing the medieval fair the other day. My kids wanted to hand out Flyers to, you know, people cosplaying and fighting fake Dragons, you know? Yeah. I was like, I was like, hey, there are real Dragons to fight you. Know I want to fight the you're. You are.

You were built to fight Dragons. Your fantasy world is real, but you are actually in service to the evil dragon of abortion, you know, who are trying to slay. My kids wanted to go out and hand things out and hold signs and talk to people, but they, you know, they Peter out after about an hour of that and they go off and mom makes sure that they're, you know, you know, getting funnel cakes or whatever and and buying little kitschy

things. And so but anyway, it just all works together so beautifully and in in the abolitionist movement. And I know that you have probably lots of just pro-life viewers and stuff that they're kind of like, man, this guy's like dogging us, dogging us, dogging us, a lot of these issues, a lot of this. The rhetorical stuff about. Calling it murder or not murder, that's that was decided by women. You can tell they wanted to be compassionate. They didn't want to be telling the truth.

Why didn't they tell the truth? Because telling the truth was harsh and it might get us in trouble. It might get us in, it might take it to another level. Like these decisions are being made by women who are making decisions that have an effect on the wider pro-life movement. And it's it's it's leading to the whole like the whole thing stinks. Last thing I'll say, I know I'm talking to You're good. But. One of the things that I loved. Remember all the way back to

like 20? 16 It may have been the end of 2015. 2016, Donald Trump was on, I can't remember the name of the guy, but it was like ACNN or MSNBC sort of town hall type question next, you know, like a Wolf Blitzer or someone like that. It wasn't him or someone like that doing AQ and a with Donald Trump. And he asked Trump, who, you know, is like the abortion thing's probably kind of on his radar, but not really. Like he's, he's been a pro choicer for most of his life and

it's not really a thing. But he was running as a Republican because he agreed with the Republican Party on a whole bunch of other areas. And he wanted to like fight the lunacy on the left, right. And so back in 2016, before he's like totally been sort of like fully initiated into the Republican Conservative Party, the anchor asked him about abortion. And he he knows he has to give the anti abort. Like, yeah, I'm, I'm pro-life. You know, he knows he has to say that politically.

He has to say that he's running for the Republican primary. So he says, you know, he's pro-life. And then the guy says, well, do you think there should be punishment? And Donald Trump, he's like, well, yeah, there's got to be punishment. You can't say this is wrong. He's like, he's like, of course there's like, abortion's bad. I'm against abortion. Now you're asking me. He's doing stage logic. He's working the problem on the stage like and.

He doesn't know that the pro-life movement doesn't think. There should be punishment. He doesn't know. He doesn't have their talking point yet. And so Donald Trump, big manly man, Donald Trump, he's just being smart and would just like, he's just being logical and he's just like, yeah, there should be punishment for that. It doesn't say much more than that, but that's the

abolitionist answer. Well, I've never seen him flip more quickly on anything and like within like, I don't know, three hours or something, a official statement comes out from the Trump campaign with a little Trump logo saying, no, we don't think that there should be punishment. And it's like written by some female leader of the pro-life establishment. And it's no, you know, because he's being told by Susan B Anthony List or March for Life of America, national right to life.

This is not our position. And he's just like, Oh well, crap, I just said that the position that makes sense. Like he's probably thinking deep inside like, what are the pro lifers all about if they're not about, you know, because when he was a pro choicer, he probably thought these lunatics want to punish people for having abortions. So, so, so he's just all sorts because because the pro lifers, like all the normal pro lifers think abortions, murder.

Therefore, if you do it, you're doing something bad and it's you. It's never, you know, it doesn't make any sense. You're not allowed to do this. But if you do it, you won't be punished like that doesn't make any sense. But Trump backpedal changed on that. And and if you go back and you look at the timeline of events, it's because these pro lifers like you can see it on all their tweets, Facebook post. This is not the position of the we like Trump, but this is not

the position of the pro-life. Actually, they didn't really like him. I think like Huckabee or someone else was, was there their guy? And so they were kind of like correcting Trump, saying what Trump said is not what pro-life like they didn't want to be seen by the American public as supporting criminalization and punishment. That was Trump. I mean, I know everyone thinks he's real manly. And I hate to be the one to say, but on some things he's not very manly.

My regular position is that he's a Democrat from the 90s, which I'm not mad at him for being that. Because that was pretty reasonable compared to where we are. Yeah. Yeah. Like Bill, like he's would be right wing today. Bill Clinton 1992 is a right winger extremist. Yeah, compared to whatever we just had in our last move. Yeah, compared to our. Country has. Declined incredibly to where?

A 90s Democrat. Is considered, you know, some kind of a, you know, fascist, fascist conservative right winger. But anyway, it's. It is. It's. Odd because Donald Trump needs the pro-life vote. So you get Donald Trump sounding like a feminist because he's being told to get this vote. You have to do this. But that is all switching like what? These guys don't know some of them you're you're seeing some of them figuring it out, you're seeing women also support this,

by the way. It's pretty clear. To me and I and my audience has been very vocal about it. They're like, we like men acting like men. I can't do my wife's jobs. I bet you couldn't do your wife's job. I bet you couldn't step in there. My I used to always tell people my buddy said this. He said I'm the I'm a great dad,

but I'm a terrible mom. And my goal is like when it's just me with the kids and we're doing dad stuff like if I get 4 kids, I'm supposed to return 4 kids, you know, from the outing in in mostly the same shape. Yeah, you know, and some bumps and scrapes. Yeah. But we're like, we're we're into that. Like we're going to play hard, we're going to play rough. You're going to get. Scratched on a tree?

I'm going. To tell you it's no big deal, like you're going to fall in the pond, I'm going to pull you out, we're going to have to change clothes, we're going to wet shoot, whatever. Like that's going to happen. These are all real examples, obviously, because that's just what happens. Dad does dad stuff, Mom does mom stuff. I couldn't do her job. You couldn't do your wife's job. So we respect and we appreciate that we're not equal, but we're of equal value.

Let's say like that's fine. And and so anyway, like that actually is catching on where people are going like, oh, yeah, yeah, that's true. You know how I know it? Put a man and woman's sports. That's the inevitable conclusion of you need to want. You want to compete. With men, that's what it. Looks like do you if you don't have a a leg up, if you're not giving a handicap to men in the workplace or other places, if we're going to just do fair

footing. I told people that there's no reason for a woman to be an FBI agent. It's a really controversial thing to say to people in law enforcement. I'm not trying to be mean. I'm just saying if you value fighting, shooting tacticians, logistics like that, then then you gave that job to a woman over a man who could fight was more fit and was held to a higher standard. You didn't give it to him. And look, there's it's not to say that there's not a room for

female investigators. I actually think there is. You just probably aren't going to be a gun carrying, you know, fighter on the street if that's what you think the the job is. And if it's not, then make it not part of the job description. Yeah, it's like, I, I mean, I, I'm not, I'm not watching tons of television right now. So I, I don't want to date myself and naming the kind of shows that I'm talking about.

But like, like when you watch these TV shows where like this like very attractive, thin, petite female agent is like kicking some guy in her high heels and they're they're going through a wall, you know, like this is total fantasy. It actually leads to real danger. I mean, it's it's. It's insane. I mean, I kind. Of we've seen it in some instances where you're kind of like, that should not have been

a woman right there. But yeah, yeah, you know, whether you're talking about in law enforcement type stuff or like firefighters and that sort of thing, it's kind of like, how about St., How about St. challenges where you're doing a TikTok video? And you're talking to people and you're provoking them. I mean, even that makes me worried for that woman. I'm like, yeah, yeah. There's psychological, like there's clear physical things

that I think everyone. Is coming to their senses about, you know, like, you know, I watch enough sports commentators to kind of appreciate that that some of the insanity is backpedaling. You know, you're getting mainstream people, you know, whether or not it's good for sound bites and conservative stuff, you can see mainstream people kind of acknowledging like, yeah, no, that guy with a penis should not be swimming against those ladies.

You know, you're getting some of that in mainstream even from at least at least South Park did it right where they had Randy Savage. The Randy Savage character is like. I'm the strongest woman. So good. I mean it's. Just it's, I think it's just doing well. And I think we're winning that debate a lot. But the, to put it back to where we're at, like we will run probably one in every 30 or 40 shorts on our channel will feature a female abolitionist and people always appreciate it.

Oh, it's good to see that woman, you know, telling it straight and all that kind of stuff. And, and we have some great ladies that do a good job and like, like when my wife does activism, when she does go out, she is pretty harsh. Like she's pretty like I'll dance around with a person for a while and let them hang themselves. My wife will just be like, shut up, you Sinner. You know, like, like you're lying. Stop you're lying. Stop being evil. Like you're, you're a child abuser.

And I'm. But she's also she's she's emboldened by you. Yeah, because she's, she's doing. And she knows that she's got the back up there, which is strong. She got the place.

But the but the. Other ladies that are going out with us. I hear them saying things that they would not have been trained to say and they're using phrases and terminology that is coming from this sort of abolitionist playbook that they would not have said had they been reading the playbook from SFLA or something like that.

Because they say don't like, you know, just listen to like the other day, like I'm a, I'm AI know I probably don't look it or sound like it, but I'm a Sunday school teacher for, for adults. And, and our class like did a service project where we were, there was a local crisis pregnancy center and there's just couples that had gone through this program and it was like a free meal and we were catering a meal and all this

kind of stuff. And I'm sitting there and these crisis pregnancy center workers, they don't know who I am and what I do. And they're just, they're just telling me about like how they're helping abortion vulnerable women and, you know, providing them diapers and cheap onesies and all this kind of stuff. And it's it's got a place and I'm really glad they're doing it. You know, it's like, I'm not who pooping what they're doing at all.

And just, but when they're talking about abortion in that context, it's not murder and justice and evil laws. And like it's none of that. It's, it's this, it's this compassionate, like these are people who've chosen not to abort their kids and they're in these messed up situations and they need help. And, and so women are leading that and doing that. And it makes total sense.

The problem is, is when you take that ministry, that assistance oriented approach and you have the assistance oriented folks telling the agitation oriented folks how they can and cannot agitate and the culture needs agitators who call abortion what it is, murder and say that our laws need to treat it as murder. Well, we've pumped millions of dollars into the crisis

pregnancy thing. They're the ones who come to the churches and ask for the money and they're the ones that, you know, control like all the tables and all the booths at the March for Life and all this kind of stuff. So you have all these women that are doing this assistance focused thing, basically saying, hey, what doesn't work for us in the crisis pregnancy center, calling it murder, you should apply when you're out on the streets.

And it's like, no, you've, you've, you've you've taken this sort of feminine focus area and you've kind of bled it over into this combat in the culture of death area. And, and the pro-life movement has decided that they're going to have sort of like a, sort of like a separation of assistance and agitation. The abolitionist movement says, no, we do the assistance and the agitation together.

People have to participate in both and you don't have them warring against each other like there is a time for mercy and there's a time for justice. It's justice and mercy. pro-life movement. It's like mercy, mercy, mercy, mercy to the point where you look at their banners and the reason they're trying to fight abortion is because they're trying to protect women. So it'll actually say we're trying to protect women and babies.

And you're like, really? Well, go spend some time on the pro-choice websites or in the pro-choice groups on Facebook or Twitter and tell me, tell me what those women are interested in. They're shouting their abortions and they're talking about their 9th, 10th, 11th abortion. And they're like purposely going to conceive a child so they can go pop a pill on the steps of the Supreme Court. And you're trying to protect women from abortion.

How about protect these babies from these murderous women? And like when you suggest that, it's kind of like freaking freaking. And you probably just had a couple of people cringe. Listen to it. And that's good. I. Mean as as you said, that's the agitation end of it. It challenges people. Your subscribers are are going down Nah, they're not. You know the stuff I. Say is this is I think this. Is the standard fare, is the way that we, you know, we communicate by being combative.

And if and if you want to challenge things that you have a problem with, you better say it pretty plainly and bluntly. And people respect not being toyed with, right? Yeah. Don't practice cunning is what I like. Everyone practices cunning.

They try to be. PC, it's not just the left that does it. On the right, we do it, you know, like, hey, you know, I think this, but instead of saying what I really think, I'm going to try to like, you know, be nicer than Jesus. And it's like they're Vipers. They're a brood of Vipers and their tables need to be turned over. Just do it. I've got a great place. I'll send it to you. I've got a great meme and it's it's got Jesus at the the last,

the table, the last. Supper and he said some of you who are sitting at table should have been flipping are are sitting at tables that you should have been flipping or something like that and I kind of like I I like that I like that and also I hear it the same way that I hear killing in the name of from Rage Against the machine. So that's the tune. It's like some of you who are at tables, you're sitting tables should have been flipping you.

Like I feel like there's there's a certain amount of rage that goes along with this because I think there is a frustration. It's like, what are you doing? I've also got a really great little logo that one day and I send it to people whenever they send me things, when I say something and they say, hey, you're being too harsh. And it's a it's Saint Michael the Archangel. He's got a sword and he's stepping on Satan's head, you know, and he's and he's getting

ready to spear him. And it says do not make peace with that which you should destroy. Yeah. Which is an abolitionist type thing. I could tell you guys could. Get behind that. You're in. An abortion clinic and you're out there like they're people. Like I don't do the abortion clinics a lot, you know, like I, I figure the whole culture is the abortion clinic and the, the actual child sacrifice center is where you go after you've made this. So I'm like trying to get people

before they go there. But I've, you know, I hear people that go out to these clinics and there's one time that I was out there and these, these pro lifers who didn't like the way we were doing it came and brought the abortion staff people, the death courts with their, their, their gay umbrellas. You know, they had the rainbow umbrellas, brought the death courts, water and cupcakes so they would know that we weren't the true representatives of, of

the church. You know, so it's like what you're, you're bringing like literal demon possessed people cupcakes so that they won't think that Christians think abortion's murder and are willing to call it murder. And you just you, it's just, it's all feminized. It is feminized. All right, let's let's rap with some fun if you don't mind. Like sometimes I like to go out

on a light hearted. Let's talk about maybe top couple stories you have of physical danger things where it got like pretty heated and maybe something that happened in the in the physical realm. And we can turn people to your channel to go kind of find where those are. And then maybe maybe some funny stories, if you got one or two, like top funniest, like funniest encounters where you just you can't help but laugh about it afterwards because somebody just

did something. So I'd love to hear a couple of encounters when you deal with the public, it gets real weird real fast. And usually that's pretty fun. Yeah. So there, there. There's tons of stuff like this. I'll try to. Think of a few good ones that are kind of maybe recent so stuff that people if they went to our channel, which our main our main impact is, is the abolitionist rising YouTube

channel. But we're on TikTok and Instagram and Facebook and we're trying to figure out Twitter, but you know, we we got we got, you know, reach issues on Twitter, I think, but we'll work on it a little bit yeah, and we'll get some boost yeah, help us out on Twitter. But the. The shorts that. We have that that are kind of funny and they do well for the reason I said earlier on the program.

But because our culture is so polarized on this and because all of the pro aborts get in their little echo chambers and they, you know, say, oh, they're like, tell each other in like a Reddit board. They'll be like, if you're ever running into one of these people that are fighting abortion in public, pull up a picture of a dolphin fetus, which looks very similar to a human fetus. You know, because mammals in a fetal stage of development, there's a similarity.

Like how how else could mammals look, you know, in this early sort of emerging from the embryonic to fetal stage where you're putting on masks, you know, there's a, it's hard to tell the difference between a dolphin, a pig and a human, right? You know, or a monkey fetus or something like that. So that all they'll get into Reddit and they'll be like, show them a dolphin fetus and ask them if they're going to defend that, you know, life or

whatever. And then they'll they'll identify it and then you'll be like, haha, that's a dolphin or that's a pig and you'll like, you'll get them right. So, so, so I always, I just waiting. I'm like, OK, I know they want to do this. I'm just waiting for it, you know? And just relatively recent, we're at Oklahoma State University and had a like a little group there. And I'd said something about human fetuses and she was saying, well, they're just, they look like fish or they're clumps

of sails or whatever. And I was like, well, I'm sorry, I don't judge people for the way they look, you know, because this is the left and they're, they're supposed to be the ones that don't judge people by the way they look. That's us. We judge people by the way. So I was flipping that back on them. I was like, oh, we don't, you know, judge people by the way

they look or whatever. And then I knew that someone in that crowd is going to hear that and they're going to be in that Reddit board or that they'll see in that meme show them a dolphin fetus. And so I stop and I turn because you know that there's video guys and editing and I've got a camera and I'm so I'm like just kind of go off to the side and I'm like, OK, somebody's going to show me a, a dolphin fetus and try to trick me. You know, it's pretty good.

Within a few minutes, a guy comes up and he's like, excuse me, Sir, what is what is this shows me a dolphin fetus. And I was like, I think that's a dolphin fetus because I've looked at. All the different kinds of yeah of. Course, and it's like his face. He's just like, that was his kill shot. Yeah, failure. He's just, he's just out of

there and. You know, I like to think 1 it made for a good short, you know, get gets a million views or whatever, but two for the rest of eternity, this thing that was going to be awesome and he was going to put me in his place just crashed and burned and and went the other way. And, and I did see that video and it's classic and especially when you know what? They're what the trick looks like. So yeah, that's the other one. The other one that you shared, which I love is whenever the

Capitol Police the. Chief guy in the Capitol, the Lieutenant Johnson or whatever, like he's, he's trying to like abolitionists. We are setting up we're, we're not like on the Capitol, We're not like on the grass where they set up the stage. Like we're kind of down. We want to, we want to erect the Abolish Human abortion banner and we're going to literally pray together, like a group of people peacefully assembling to pray. And then we're going to talk to people as they come by, right?

And we, we'll put it all together. And you'd share this one, I think. And, and a lot of folks that are kind of like, oh, you should have them on. That's where this, this whole thing came from. Fair enough. I would have had you on beforehand because my wife's been falling for a long time. So that was just the catalyst. That that works out, Yeah. No, that's awesome. In my mind it's it's because I'm not. I'm not really on Twitter very much, but that's but that's how

I it's successful. You're not missing. Yeah, every time I get on there, I just kind of. Take people off so. But anyway, so I love that short and it captures some of it, but it doesn't capture just how hilarious it was and how much internally I was like keeping myself from being just a total, you know, unbearable that person, because I'm sitting there, you're you're poking the bear there. He's like, he's like, you're like, Lieutenant Materson doesn't.

Have his microphone on does it I'm I'm like looking at they're like you need to disband. They've got. Like a paper, they got a script that they have to read all the way through. And once they get through with the script, that'll give them license to like zip tie us and put us in Paddy wagons and remove us from the cow. And I'm looking at it. I can see the script. I can see him reading the script and he tries to, he tries, he can't turn his bullhorn on or it's broken or something.

And it's just so pathetic. And you know, he's, he's, he's playing the game. But from my perspective and I, and I've got my Bible out and I'm like, I'm just trying to like, do what we had planned. I was going to read this chapter of the Bible and we're going to pray, pray through it.

And I'm trying to read this portion of Scripture and my like, I wish I had those meta glasses on so you could see my, it's like there are these cops with zip ties waiting for their Lieutenant to finish his script so they can zip tie us. And in my perspective, is zip ties some kind of some pudgy cops. You know, they're not all pudgy, but like, I'm kind of like, it's Capitol Police. We don't, I don't have a lot of, yeah, maybe you shouldn't call them cops. Like, I don't know.

Capital security guard. Yeah, there's security guards. The highest, The highest. Paul. Paul. Blart or whatever his name is. Yes. And and I'm looking at them and I see all these like homeschool mom and dads, like they're just all these just we're not doing nothing to anybody and all these different cops and on their faces. It's just like whenever I was a little kid and I thought about growing up and being in law enforcement, I really did not think that this is what it would be.

My buddy, so my buddy Phil says this. He spent 14 years, 15 years as an FBI. Agent and his most just devastating takedown of anybody that's doing this stuff right. It's like is this what you is this what you signed up for the FBI to do? Is this why you signed up to be a Capitol Police officer? Go run off peaceful praying homeschool mom and dads from the Capitol ground. Is that what you signed up? Is that what this paycheck is for you?

Like, is that how you look in the mirror every morning and you're like, I'm proud of what I'm doing. I'm shutting down people. It's it's devastating. Like, how do you go home with that in your heart? At some point, At some point it's got your job. We didn't put it in the short, I don't think. I don't know if we got it, but I was. Talking to some of them, they're all like loitering about in their bikes, waiting for us to be done.

With that, we're done. And I'm just kind of like, you know what, It'd be like a really great time to, like, rob a bank and watch it in DC, huh? Like, like you got like, like every law enforcement officer is out here. There's, like, as many of y'all as there is of us. Like, what in the world's going on so bad? Yeah. Like somebody somewhere is like doing something seriously evil and y'all aren't dealing with

it, you know? And you kind of see on some of their faces kind of like a holy crap, that's right. You know, So not, not not a particularly funny story, but just telling them like I do. I don't time that we're in, right. Yeah, I don't spend a lot of time. You know, fighting with. You know cops. Because there are, I mean, it's probably, it's probably to your advantage to not do that. Yeah, there there are people that. Do what I do, but they spend a lot of time arguing for.

Like the right to be like 2 feet closer to something and it doesn't matter. And it's like, what are you doing? I do try to with law enforcement people to, to get into their minds like, hey, you took an oath to defend the innocent or something like that. And you're not really doing it. We're doing it like we have to hold these signs and tell people not to murder their children because you won't, like, kick down the door and stop the person that's doing it. Like, how do you sleep at night

sort of thing. But I try not to be that. That mean to them but some. Abolitionists are are much, much more forward. But yeah, so I don't fight with them too much. But definitely in I, I would say that I enjoy the work that I do like out there on the streets and I am trying to reach as many people as possible.

But the real, the real joy and the real fruit is coming online and the fact that there are, you know, 10s of thousands, I'm probably saying a number that's that's lower than it is hundreds of thousands of, you know, viewers who are regularly commenting and growing in boldness about this evil. And it's shifted. And the other side, both the pro-life approach was they don't even know that the number of people that are just very comfortable with abortion is

murder. It's evil, it's a sin, it's a crime. It should be abolished. There should be punishment. And what's the freaking problem with all of you guys who can't see this? That number has grown so incredibly large that you see whenever the abolition in the pro-life movements clash that pro lifers think. They're going to come out and they're. Going to say these abolitionists are harsh. They're calling abortion murder. And then like they get ratioed hardcore, massive and they're

like, oh, crap. Like yeah, they've lost. They've lost the crowd, they've lost the people and it's kind of only a matter of time. So not like any, but serious. It is serious, but it's a serious. I mean, this is about as serious a topic as. You can get into and I think. That the stakes are as high as they are and we can have a little bit of light hearted nature with it. But at the same time it's like, you know, using the words you're using, those are not casual.

It's not casual conversation. It's not polite conversation for regular people. But I don't even, I don't think about it. You probably don't think about it when you're talking about. 2nd Amendment stuff like I don't think, I don't think about it when I'm talking about abortion. I'm very comfortable with the things like none.

Of those things make me turn and go oh, but again, I started off as somebody ambivalent probably about the time we were in college together looking back when we were but I was taking on the same campus that you were we should figure it out You send me your transcript and I'll send you mine and we'll see if we actually. Were in a class together, there's a strong probability I feel like yeah, 2000 to 2005. I was in a lot of classes too because I was there for a while.

And I just kept taking more and more classes and. I was not very good at, wasn't very good at sticking with anything. So yeah, I was a super. I was a super. Senior. Yeah, I, I think I, I can't. Remember, if I it must have been the end of my my super senior year. I was like, this is totally ridiculous. Like I'm ridiculous. I'm a ridiculous person for being here as long as I have and all the stupidity that I've changed and finally get out of here.

By the way, OK, let me just share with you, this is totally personal thing. My audience will get a kick out of this too. I didn't actually graduate when I left. I just left college and walked the stage without actually getting a diploma. I don't know if I've ever said that to anybody publicly, but it doesn't. It doesn't really matter. I mean, you didn't fulfill your credits or yeah, no, People who know me know. This, I mean, this is not like,

it's like it's not a deep secret, but like in two. 1005, I walked the stage for the College of Arts and Science graduation. The biggest one that they have in Norman, right? Yeah. Lloyd Noble or something? I'm an S Seraphin. So I'm at the back, they get to me. And you and you write your card, right? You write down your card. And you said this is at least going back to when we did.

So you write down your card. Here's my name, how I wanted to be, you know, said when I graduate, then they give you a blank, a blank diploma thing that will hold your eventual diploma, right? Yeah, I remember that. I got some of those, so I signed up. To walk the stage and didn't actually finish. At least one or two of the classes, my final senior. So it was just they were assuming that you were going to Yeah, it was an incomplete that I ended up taking because I just. I just blew it.

I just I just withdrew. Or something from a class, but you got the nice little leather, you have the nice little leather thing. So it goes like this. So I I. I walk up, I hand the lady my card and the and then and. I, I thought the whole thing was a joke, right? I thought it was stupid. Three weeks prior, I shaved a Mohawk. So I was completely down to the skin except for a Mohawk, and I went everywhere in a blazer because I was ATA as well.

I was teaching as an undergraduate teaching assistant, so I've got a, a Mohawk and a blazer. I look absolutely absurd, which felt like what was appropriate for where I was. Then I hand them the card, which was also absurd, and I wrote Sir Kyle Matthew Seraphin. So they take the card and they hand it over to the guy. Who's at the microphone? And they go.

Sir Kyle, Matthew Serafin, you know what, I walk up and I'm like smiling and I you know shake the hand of whoever was the Dean or whatever as I get my blank diploma thing. I walk off 8 people behind me had the same unoriginal idea that after I did it, they all were Sers as well. They all added server to their stupid thing. So then we go out there. My brother actually got his diploma right then because my brother graduated the same year.

He was a year behind me in school and then he was the same year as me, but I didn't get a diploma and then I went off into my life. I did all my things and then I called Oklahoma in 2008 because I was going to go into the military and I said, hey, by the way, I never graduated, but I feel like I have a ton of credits. Can you see if I qualify for any degree and you can give it to me? And they said, yeah, you qualify for this degree that we didn't have available when you were

there. It's called letters. And I went, oh, good, fantastic. Because it was, it was called something else at the time and it was not quite the same like established track classics or something, something to that effect. Yeah, exactly. They they solidified the the letters thing. Apparently right after that or maybe. I I qualified for it, but I didn't know back then. And so they go. I remember a bunch of sort of friends that were having trouble.

With whatever degrees that they were, they were doing, it was ended up being a letters, letters majors. Yeah, they're all going to seminary or something later. Well, they were just like, how many credits you got? You got like 180 credit hours. Like, yeah, you qualify. For a degree at 120. So we'll give you this letters degree. So that's what it ended up being. So they go, yeah, no problem, we'd happy, we'd happy, happily send you a diploma. You owe us $1500 in library fines.

I must have lost like 8 books or something. And you're like, fair enough, Exchange I. Was like, yeah, whatever, I got to write you a check, so be it. So there. Should be a shelf named after me at the bazelle. Library in Norman, OK. There should be because of the amount of money that I paid in fines, maybe one of the bigger fines that's ever been paid. But yeah, yeah, I was just saying my I, my, my thing, my favorite thing. About the Bazelle library is.

Whenever people outside of the Bazelle Library are calling me a lunatic and an idiot and all this kind of stuff, you know, I want to be like, hey, why don't you go into the Bazelle Library, go into the Great Reading Room where they have all the, the dissertations and the master's theses and all that kind of stuff, and go look up my name and grab my master's thesis off the wall in the Great Reading Room.

I can show you where it is. It's like they're like these undergrad students who are telling me how dumb I am can go into their library that they're paying to have access to and find my book. You know, it's kind of like, why don't you go do that? Yeah. Add to the. Add to the top of that that I'm sure you were ATA and you've graded. Their papers and they weren't that impressive. But yeah, no, it's, I mean, I try to purposefully. You know, dumb it down a little bit.

You know, just like you, you want, you don't want to be like, oh, before we engage and you bring up something like, I'm not going to tell you before that that I am a historian of science, you know, So if you're going to go, if you're going to go down the like we're talking about abortion, but you think, oh, let me go down. The Galileo was persecuted by

the church. He wasn't not, not for, for you know, I'm not going to get into it on your show, but like before you, before you go down the I'm going to put this Christian in his place with some science, religion, warfare thesis stuff. I will murder you on that, you know, I'm not going to tell them beforehand. It's real hunting style. It's always very fun because I think.

That sometimes there's. A that's a really like, sometimes you like I, I do want to like, you know, I have no hatred towards like what, you know, what would generally be called like lost people. Like I, I don't feel any sort of like, I want, I want to, to beat you in a debate and make you look stupid. That's not really my thing. So I do care about them. I am wanting to, you know, tell them good news that God can love them and forgive them.

I do want to tell them that. But sometimes you're not going to get to that point. And if I, if, if a person goes home and they're sitting on their couch and they're, they're, you know, whatever, watching Netflix and they're trying to think about the day and they think, man, that Christian just destroyed me. I think that's a really good thing. Like I think. It's a real like that. They have the.

Realization that like, they were going to just chug along and they're going to switch the topic to hominid fossils. The best part of it ran right. Into something that they didn't even know you know. The best will be is that. They'll go out there and maybe, maybe on the outside chance that they decide to. Get more educated on this. So the next time that happens that I'm more prepared and then

then they self radicalize. So I think that yeah, they go and they're going to study it. Oh no, I've seen that. I've seen. That happen, people come back like that. They had talked to me like one year and then came back a year later and said hey last year when you were here I was on the other side well what happened well, I just kind of like started really looking into it and turns out y'all all right, I was like yeah it happens I mean it's a miracle. Maybe it's a miracle.

It is a miracle happens every day all right tell people where to follow you from our channel here now they've. Now that they're listening to the end of this thing and they're thinking, OK, I got to see some of these videos where they can find hopefully. Yeah, just get on YouTube and type in abolitionist. Or Abolitionists Rising, either one of those are going to go to our channel. Very good. Apparently most people think it's abolitionist rising, but I'm not the only abolitionist.

That's why there's an S there. But yeah, Abolitionist Rising on YouTube. Easiest way to find the short content that we're talking about. And then the longer form stuff, you know, lectures, presentations, you know, we we put up long uncut conversations, you know, whenever they're whenever they're good. We don't, we don't actually edit anything out.

I've never in my entire life run into someone who offered valid, sound, well put together and explicated arguments for abortion just never have happened. We're not like choosing not to show those. Those don't exist. But yeah, so you can see all that on YouTube or if you're a TikTok person, same thing. But we don't put the long form content. If you want to like look into the more nitty gritty ideology stuff, abolitionist rising.com, just the website.

So all those links will be in the show description folks, so you guys can read those in the notes and that'll be real easy. And I look forward to doing this maybe again in the future, because that was fun. Yeah, let me know. It's fun to randomly run across somebody who was at the. Same place in time. Like I said, we'll we'll do a transcript. Swap and see what we were at. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure.

Like if you took some. Philosophy classes anywhere in there, Chances are, but I don't know. I feel like if I heard your name, your last name, I would remember it. Yeah, but how many times did you hear the last name of the people in the class that you just saw for a? Semester or something? So yeah. Wait, you said 2000, so 2000 or 2005? Yeah, so I was I was I. Was ATA beginning? In 2000, like 7 through 2010.

So it would have been awesome if I was like, Oh yeah, I remember giving you AI remember your blue book. I would I would have caught A's in any class that had to do with writing or. Had to do with thinking, reasoning, and I would have caught not the greatest grades when I didn't show up for class, which was a lot of science classes, I got bored. Yeah, the zoology class where you had to be there three times a week and then you had. To do the lab work, it's like, yeah, yeah, great.

The great here, here's the final story for you. I legitimately went to a. Lab one time, which was once a week, and found out that the midterm was that morning and I hadn't been going to class all semester, so why would I know when the midterm was? So I straight up and missed the midterm. That's probably one of the reasons why I got a zero point. I think a 0.75 GPA one semester. It was very impressive. They don't just give those out like Tommy Boy. Yeah, that's that's you got to

like go to a certain amount. It's it's like you're trying. I had like I. Had like AD and like some FS and an incomplete and like 1A or something. Really weird. It was really bad. Yeah. Not not a great student. I have some, I have some bad I I had great grades as a graduate student, but not. Great grades as an undergrad and people are always like, well, you know, why didn't you get, you know, 4 point O as undergrad? And I was like, well, I mean, I got some. I got AD. Like you got it.

Oh my gosh, you got AD? What'd you get AD in nude drawing? It was like 8. AMI had to like walk across campus and draw old people's private parts. I mean, it was like, you were not good at that. I was not. That was just not my jam. That's a good thing. To be not good at. To be at the end of. The day as a dad you look back and and. Yeah, it turns out that I didn't want to draw naked people whenever I was a freshman. And sophomore in college. Yeah. Naked people in their senior

years. Good for you. Well done. Yeah, they were getting. Probably getting paid like, you know, $15.00 an hour to stand. There naked in front of I mean, it was, it was traumatic. And so, yeah, I, it's like I've got like an A in symbolic logic as an art student and A and A and AD in drawing too, because it was, you know, nudes and stuff. But see, we it always comes to humor at the end. We'll finish it up that way. Thanks. Thanks for sitting with me. Thanks for spending all the

time. We'll send people your way too. I appreciate it, bud. All right. Appreciate you. Thanks, brother. Outstanding. That is our Sunday. Sit down for today. I really appreciate you. Guys joining us, I hope that was fun for you. It was actually a really interesting conversation for me with Mr. T Russell Hunter of the Abolitionist Rising Movement. Kind of a cool take on things, maybe converted some of you and the mindset will change a little bit.

Did for me realized I'm a little bit more extreme. That's just the way that I operate. Thanks so much for being part of it against support our sponsors. If you can watch the channels wherever you are on it.

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We really appreciate all of you guys being part of it. These shows are for you. These are the things that I do because you guys asked for them. And it makes me kind of step out of the comfort zone, go talk to people that maybe I wouldn't do. Maybe go out and reach out and do a little bit more video editing than I like to do too. But that's that's not nothing. All right, I hope you have a wonderful Sunday. If you're listening to this during the week, I hope you're

having a wonderful week so far. Make sure you're always checking out the Kyle Seraphin show at 0930 Eastern Time. And that is, that's 830 in Texas, America, isn't it? Have a great day, guys. God bless you. We'll talk to you soon. Thank you for listening to the Kyle Seraphin Show streamed. Live weekdays on. Rumble.com/kyle Seraphin Follow Kyle on Twitter, true Social and Instagram at Kyle Seraphin.