SUNDAY Sit-Down | Dale Whitaker: GOLD BUYER BEWARE! | Ep 549

The entire gold industry is not ripe with fraud, but I can tell you what to look for that should ring some alarm bells and and really scare you off from utilizing one of these. There is this segment of the industry, what I call or what is known as the premium or exclusive. Those are two terms that are used interchangeably coin dealers that really perpetuate this.

So the, the one big thing that you just need to, if you, if you're going to watch this interview and you get to this point and, and you want to tune off whatever, if you hear those terms used by a salesman, just hang up the phone. That's it, right? Just be done with that. The target audience is specifically 50 plus conservative Christian. All interviewers have their own style. And my style is to try to get to the point and to be intensely curious.

And the key to interviewing is listening. Take a look behind the curtain with a real whistle blower, an American patriot. Prepare to embrace the uncomfortable truth because this program has no time for comforting lies. Here is civil liberties enthusiast, Second Amendment defender and recovering FBI agent Kyle Serif. Hello, my friends. Welcome to our Sunday sit down. Thanks so much for joining me. This program, no exaggeration, could save your life.

We have seen that Americans in this country actually fear being financially destitute in their golden years more than they actually fear death. And so this story could actually really impact you or someone. You know, there's a lot of shame and a lot of guilt that is associated with fraud and being scammed. And this is a scam that is being perpetrated by a lot of people, some willingly, some knowingly and some not. We're going to talk about gold.

We're going to talk about premium and exclusive coinage, and I think you guys are going to find this quite interesting. This story comes from Dale Whitaker. He is a whistleblower, but he didn't just start doing this like he's been actually talking about the gold industry for coming on seven years now. I imagine it's probably exhausting. I haven't gotten anywhere near that kind of time. So we're going to have a long

conversation. He's going to have all the rope that he wants to be able to to weave the story that needs to be done. I think you guys will stick around and find it quite interesting, but we've given you a very good glimpse into it with the little TS right there. Before we get started, we're going to talk about assets. We're going to talk about things that you can physically possess that can ensure your safety and can ensure your financial

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capability. Go to prepare like kyle.com, like you just saw on the screen, prepare like kyle.com. We cannot control what's going on in this world, but we can control how well we're prepared for it. There's a $200 discount right now for that limited time at Prepare Like kyle.com. Thanks for listening to this. I think you guys are going to enjoy our Sunday sit down. So let's get right into it. All right, ladies and gentlemen, our guest today is Dale Whitaker.

He is hosting the Dale Whitaker Show. He's a tax account by day and a whistleblower as well. Thanks for joining me today. I appreciate you taking time, Dale. Yeah, I appreciate you having me. So I, I got introduced to your involvement in, let's say, the gold business because of our last podcast guest, which is Andy Scheckman. He owns Miles Franklin. They sell a lot of gold. They make a very slim margin on it. That is not the case for everybody.

And I know you've got a story tell, so let's start with who you are. And I've got a little trace of an accent in there. You want to kind of tell me where you came from? Yeah. So I'm British. I moved here in 2008 and I became a citizen in 2015. So I'm, I'm a proud U.S. citizen. I ran for office last year, Secretary of State here in Washington state. I have a beautiful wife, a couple of step kids, some dogs,

you know, the usual. But yeah, I, I've worked in accounting ever since I came to the United States when I was 18. I've been in accounting, what, 1617 years now. And that's essentially how I got my start in business. And when I was around 23, I started freelancing on Elance. And that's how I ended up meeting Isaac Nuriani, who is the CEO of the Gold Company that we're going to chat to today.

Chat about today. What was your formal training in either economics or in in becoming a tax accountant and all that? So I worked for CPA firms for what the first six years that I was in accounting. So I was really just that entry starting, you know, thrown transactions into QuickBooks, building financial statements. To be honest, the first, first like year and a half, I had no

idea what I was doing. It was just like, Hey, you can type fast, put this in that in that QuickBooks file and this is how you're going to do it. So that's really how I got my start. And then just over time, developing skills, asking good questions, good mentors. I had really good mentors who who really helped me understand business and understand tax. So that's how I got my start and then I finally bit the bullet and went and got my degree.

The biggest waste of $45,000 by the way, if you're going to be an accountant, don't do it. Just go be an accountant. I just go work for ACPA firm and get some experience and then go do your own thing. Anyway, I digress. So that's how I, I got my start. I did finally, like I said, I got my degree. I have ABA in accounting and I

and an IRS enrolled agents. Like like you said season just got wrapped up for me. I have a few extensions I got to get done, but that's essentially how I got my start in in the accounting world. And you mentioned that you started off doing some freelancing or looked out in there. What does that marketplace look like? How does it even play out? And and then how did you get contacted? Well, I kind of got in, I think I got in a little early. So you know, Elance became Upwork.

So most people have probably heard of Upwork, which is a little different to Fiver, but essentially the same thing. So people, people post jobs, you go on there and usually it's gig work, right? Hey, I need my last year financial statements doing hey, I need this tax return due and all these last five years of tax returns, whatever it may be. So I started there very early and got so I started.

So let's let's backtrack. So I worked about 5-6 years in in for the CPA firm doing a lot of bookkeeping. I started doing tax and then I went into managerial accounting. I did some some work as a head book bookkeeper for about a year and a half for a company here locally in Spokane. And then I went from that and I actually ended up having major kidney surgery. I had a birth defect.

That's a long story. But during that process is when I signed up for Elance because I'm at home on bed rest and I'm like, well, I want to work, I'm bored, bring in some extra income. And there was a lot of folks on there just needing general bookkeeping help. And it paid well. It paid, you know, within a few that I'd say like 4 to 8, four to 8 weeks. I had enough ongoing business where it was actually more than I was getting paid at my 8:00 to 5:00.

And the flexibility that came with it was great. That's how I got my start in the in, in, in freelancing and it was, it was great. Honestly, I've worked from home. I always tell people I've worked from home since 2013, since before it was cool. So I've I've been doing it a long time. When so for people that are not familiar, fiver is kind of like a gig based economy. So you put out like here's who I am, these are my qualifications,

it's my experience. And then people can just negotiate out you, you kind of publish rates. I imagine that you're either hourly or or job based. How does that work? Yeah. So you at the time I, I haven't used it for a long time. I've obviously kind of progressed past that point. It's a very good starting point, I believe. But so the way it worked was, you know, someone posted job, they said, hey, I, I need a bookkeeper to do my last 12

months of bookkeeping. And then I would go on and I'd say, okay, I, I'll charge 100 bucks a month, so $1200 and I'll sit down and I'll crank out the whole 12 months financial, financial statements. And it's honestly, I could get that done in a couple hours. So I went from making, you know, $3000 a month to making 12, sometimes $1200 in a day where I would just sit and I would just work, you know, four or five hours, get a whole set of financial statements done and

boom, you're done. They get a good deal. I work 5 hours and I make a make good money. So it was really just a very good transition. It suit, it suits my personality well because I'm kind of type a kind of a little bit of a control freak I suppose. So it it really suited me well where I could do things the way that I wanted to do them and and be efficient in that so. Were there any types of business that you were focusing in on that that ended putting you into a gold business or was a

generalized? No. So the way that worked, so, so the way that this, so the way that it works is, you know, someone posted and said, I need this. And so with Isaac, the way it worked, he, he actually posted and he said, I need AI need someone to teach me how to do bookkeeping. I think his initial thought was he's going to do his own bookkeeping. He wants to do all his own finance and so on, because like me a little bit, he's a little

bit of a control freak. So he, he initially it was me to train him how to use QuickBooks online, which at the time and even today is not a good product. I always use QuickBooks desktop. It's just a better product. So I'm teaching him. And then, and this happened over a period of, you know, four or five months. So he he, he bids, sorry, he posted job. I bid along with a bunch of others.

He selected me. We had an interview and he said, OK, I want you just to teach me. So it started out really just an hour or two a month before Augusta had any sales. It was only Isaac, myself and one other guy that were there. And the other guy was a salesman. He was training out of his home and I just was teaching him. It's like, hey, this is what this does and so on.

And then I think he realized, you know, after the couple of months of doing bank reconciliations with, you know, minimal 2030 transactions, it, it was, it was going to be a lot more work than he'd be able to manage along with trying to run the company. So, you know, that ended up blowing into a, a full time gig kind of it, it didn't start

there. So, so the way that it actually turned into a full time gig is there was a company called Merit Financial and Merit Financial are were a precious, very, very big precious metals company, one of the biggest at the time. And they were sued in 2012 by the District Attorney in Santa Monica. And they were sued for a lot of the same reasons as to why I blew the whistle on Augusta.

And what ended up happening is there was a so Isaac could work that Merit Financial. In fact, he was listed as a defendant on the lawsuit. So they filed the lawsuit. He was. So they sued Merit Financial and one of the parties sued Isaac as well in his capacity as a salesman. And he was one of their top performers, very good salesman. And I think that was when he goes, oh, I'm, I'm out of here. So he cashes out in, you know,

2012, this lawsuit's ongoing. He had quite a bit of money in the bank from making a lot of Commission, which we'll get into in a little bit. And he goes and works from home and starts Augusta. So, and that's when I come in, right? And he's in very, like I said, very early preliminary, preliminary stages. He's building the website because there's no physical location for you to go to. It's all done online.

So he's building the website. He's determining, you know, small things, just like small things you want to think about, you know, what phone systems are we going to use, you know, what servers are we going to use, That kind of thing. So he's very, very early to merit. Merit that, merit financial lawsuits. Progressing, progressing, progressing. And then in 2014, maybe 2013, what would it have been?

It would have been, yeah, it would have been 2014, Summer of 2014, Merritt finally closes their doors. So a bunch of the sales guys, as former colleagues show up to Merritt Financial, there's a notice on the door and the notice says we're we're done. We're we're out of business. We've been sued into the ground and Isaac lives ten blocks from the Merit headquarters. So Isaac goes to the Merit headquarters. Sorry.

So the guys go from the Merit headquarters to Isaacs home because they know one of his best friends, Jay Johnson Kelly. We'll talk about him a little bit too. He knew that Isaac was starting Augusta. So they show up like 10 guys show up at Isaacs House and like, hey man, Are you ready to sell? We got the list from Merit. One of the guys that stolen the list from Merit brought it to August. The The Client List brought it to Augusta and said we got the

list, we can call. So that was really the the catalyst. It went from like slow rolling it, doing this slowly and so on to really going all in. And then that's when I had gotten a call from Isaac to come work for Augusta full time. All right, and Augusta, the full name of the company is? Augusta Precious Metals. Augusta Precious metals that they're based out of where? So if you go to the website, they'll say that they're out of

that. They actually operated out of Wilshire Blvd., which is, you know, prominent Los Angeles. So, and that's just to give this aura of all they're on Wilshire Blvd. This must be a really legitimate firm. The reality is they operate out of Culver City. And the reason they operate out of Culver City is because Isaac wanted to get out of the jurisdiction of the assistant DA who had sued Merit Financial.

So he was looking intentionally to get out of that jurisdiction and move to Culver City, actually helped look for spaces in Culver City for that purpose. OK. And they have what, like a box or something? Or some kind of a virtual address? Yeah. So that Wilshire Blvd. address is just a virtual address. It's just they get, you know, they'll get mail there and so on. And that's what their front facing address is.

But there's no one there. It's just a satellite office where people pay, you know, 100 bucks a month to use the address essentially. Perfect. All right, so you got pitched. Teach me how to do books. He realizes this is going to be a bigger job and I'm going to be able to handle. He obviously has a sales background. Did do you know what his business background or his his his professional training was?

Prior, yeah. So he didn't have any professional training in terms of, you know, he'd never been a corporate officer or worked at that level before. I was told by him and his family that he had an economics degree from UCLAI don't know, I never vetted that. I don't know if that's true or not, but he's a very intelligent person. So it wouldn't surprise me he but there's no like formal training and that, and that's one of the things with these salesman, most of them are

recruited off Craigslist, right? And so they're not looking for necessarily educated people. They're looking for hungry people. When I say hungry, it's not hungry as in I haven't eaten. It's I want to make a lot of money. And that's the pre qualifier. If you're hungry and you can follow instructions and you can and you're charismatic and you can sell on the phone, you can work, you can, you can make a lot of money. Sure. What about? What about vetting? Did you do any vetting curiosity

at that time? Are you doing Google searches to find out hey, who's this guy that's asking to hire me on? No. So the way that that worked is I'd went to, I'd went to like drop off a, a like lunch to my wife. My wife's done a house cleaning business. So I went to drop off lunch to her and I'm at the house that she was cleaning. I'm talking to her. My cell phone rings and it's Isaac. And I was like, that's weird because he didn't, he and I didn't have a relationship at

this point. It was just like a we scheduled once a month. It wasn't like we never texted. It wasn't like that at all. It was just, you know, we text to schedule. Hey, let's do this Tuesday or whatever. So I get this call and he says, Hey, I want you to come work for me full time. And I said, OK, well, you know, I'd already established a client base at this point over the last, you know, let's say 6 to 8

months at this point. And I, I was like, OK, well, you know, I can't, I don't have have the capacity in my schedule to do that, right? And he said, well, what would it take for you to fire all of your clients? And I said, I don't know him and I'd really have to sit down and look at it. And he said, OK, we'll look at it and let's chat tonight. So that was a conversation.

So I was, to be quite honest, I was excited because, you know, managing multiple books and having multiple clients, it's, it's not difficult, but it's a lot more challenging than focusing solely on one client, right? So, you know, I went home, I did some math and I was probably making honestly about four, you know, 35104 thousand. I just surpassed where like on on month to month. This is not gig work. This is just my month to month revenue. It's about 3:00 to 3500.

And then I was picking up all the gig work and so I just shot him a number. I was like, yeah, he's like, what's it going to take us like 5 grand a month? He goes done. Fire your clients. That was it. There's no negotiating. It was just like 60 grand a year. Here you go. So, you know, I went from making what, 8 like 15 bucks an hour in 2013 to making $60,000 a year in 2020, in 2014 to 2014. That's a huge step up, right? And it was good. It was, it was exciting.

It enabled me to do a lot of things and but that wasn't the end of it in terms of, in terms of money. Now there's a lot to do, right? We, we had, we had no business. I didn't know the industry. I knew nothing about it. So my, my introduction to the industry, we'd, we'd had that conversation. And then Isaac said, Hey, let's do a quick call and I'll give you a rundown of the industry. He says, go get a whiteboard from Walmart or something.

So I went and got a whiteboard. I hung on my wall and he calls me on Skype and he just says, I'm going to talk you right. I said OK, he spoke, I wrote and that was it. An hour. It was an hour long introduction that was. And now I'm the chief financial officer basically of Augusta Precious Metals that. Was so he was laying out what the business model and then how they were gonna enter into the market as well?

Yeah. So not necessarily how to enter into the market, but it was, it was more to do with what I would be doing. So you know how trades work, how what bid bids and asks are, what spreads are, which anyone who has dabbled in this, it's a lot more, you need a lot more training than an hour, especially if you're going to do the job right. These are, these are not necessarily super complicated terms and things, but there's a

lot of terms that are used. There's a lot of terms that are used interchangeably and so on. So then with that, that, so that was basically it. And then he says don't worry, there's there's a guy named Eugene who who'll help you. He's the wholesaler at Bayside Metal Exchange. Eugene was the prior CFO at Merit Financial. When Merit went under, Eugene started his own wholesale wholesale company, not retail wholesale company, so that he could sell to these guys who have all of these assets.

So he said that Eugene will help you and he kind of passed the book to Eugene kind of felt sorry for him. Then I would ask him a whole, a whole bunch of what you would probably consider dumb questions if you're if you're at least somewhat seasoned in the industry. And, and really Eugene ended up being the one who who really, I guess trained me, but he was so busy. It was kind of like, I would get tidbits here and then I would

just do a ton of research. So I was really just self-taught in in the industry to be honest with you. So are they picking up clients by the time that's happening, they've already got income coming in that you're you're keeping track of, you're doing the books and then also you're trying to learn on the fly how to be the guy that's that's running behind the scenes. Is that essentially it?

Yeah. So like I said, so there was a one of the salesman had stolen the lead database from Merit Financial and brought it to Augusta. So it now here's the thing. It's, you know what's what's interesting about that? He wasn't the only one. There's another company out there that is buying up a lot of conservative folks right now. Now, who also stole that same lead database when they started their company. So we weren't the only one. There was an at least one other,

maybe two others that did this. One other for sure that I know for sure. There is another firm that popped up. It didn't last very long, but it did pop up and I and I do wonder if they had done the same thing. So these guys come in where they're at Isaac's store, right? So Merrick closed. They're at Isaac's store. Hey, we, we're, we don't have jobs.

We need jobs. We got the sleeve database, so on and so on. So Isaac essentially empties his living room of all furniture and he lines the outside desks with outside wall with desks and buys a bunch of IMAX and just sets up a makeshift sales call center out of his living room. And that was for about a good eight to 9, I would say. Yeah, probably 8 months. Maybe it wasn't 12.

It was probably about 8 months. That was where the guys worked out of. So they just showed up to his house like they did the first day and they rolled in and and had a call center in his. Home in his home. And this was in Southern California, obviously. This is in Santa Monica, yeah. Santa Monica, so they're doing and they're what they're just dialing for dollars.

You said conservative call list. Can you tell me about the clientele that was being targeted and let's talk about product and and what that looks like so we can kind of get an idea what this business was? Sure. So the anyone in the in the industry will tell you that especially in this segment of the industry. So I think it's it's really important to be super clear here, the entire gold industry is not ripe with fraud.

There is this segment of the industry what I call or what is known as the premium or exclusive. Those are two terms that are used interchangeably, coin dealers that really perpetuate this. So the the one big thing that you just need to if you're if you're going to watch this interview when you get to this point and and you want to tune off whatever, if you hear those terms used by a salesman, just hang up the phone. That's it, right. Just be done with that.

Now, it's a lot more complicated than that, but that's one of the big telltale signs the the target audience is specifically 50 plus conservative Christians. So every time that you see these advertisements on, you know, conservative media and so on, there is a very good chance that that company is going to be operating in the very same or similar way that Augusta is. Now, I'm not going to say this explicitly like they all are doing this and so on and so on because I don't have evidence of

that. But I can tell you what to look for that should ring some alarm bells and and really scare you off from utilizing one of these. And I think with that as well, what, what you should look for is what companies are are not advertising in this way, What companies are out there that aren't, that are legitimate companies that have been around for a long time that are selling, you know, your typical bullion products that aren't advertising this way.

And why not? And, and the why the answer to the why not is because these margins are so different. In the traditional bullion model, you have high volume, low margin, you're making like 3 to 5% on like, let's say it's typical silver, American gold, American Eagles. You cannot, you cannot, I cannot sustain paying millions of dollars for advertising like we did at Augusta with Fox News, like 1.5 to $2,000,000 a year. That doesn't include what we paid Newsmax. I didn't include at the time.

Well, I actually Augusta doesn't have any sponsors. They've stayed out of that from what I've seen. I haven't seen any conservative voices peddling Augusta. They've kind of stayed out of that realm. But you know, we, we did Newsmax, we did Fox News commercials. We did.

Oh man, there's a bunch. I mean, there's a bunch that we do. We'd buy lists, not necessarily buy the list, but we'd buy an advertisement on a list, let's say at Newsmax. And then Newsmax would have this list of conservative Christians that they would send blasts to. And we would just say, hey, we'd pay like 5 grand, let's say, and they'd send an e-mail to 60,000 people for us with our

advertisement, right? So, so that was how we actually introduced once we burned through that merit list, that stolen merit list, once we burned through that and those leads were basically cold as it started utilizing these buy lists, where he'd go buy the lists and you know, we wouldn't get the information, but we'd send it via, you know, Newsmax or whatever and then pay for advertising on Fox News.

So then to the second part of your question, I know this is a little long winded, but this is critical information. I, I feel the product now, why is the product different? Well, the answer really is that it isn't a different product. It is a bullion product. That's it. So it's not numismatic, it's not collectible.

So the way that that works and I have tried to send letters to the Royal Canadian Mint, British Royal Mint and so on is that these companies enter into an exclusive distribution contract with the Royal Canadian Mint, the British Royal Mint, the Perth Mint by way of a wholesaler. The wholesaler, his name is Eugene Fogle and he started a company called Bayside Metal Exchange when he when Merritt

was sued and he went to do that. So Eugene utilizes his contacts to enter into these exclusive contracts with the mints so that he can have the sole distribution in in the United States. So what you'll see is let's say that you're. So one of the coins that we sold at Augusta was called the silver Canadian Eagle, which was intentional because the silver American Eagle is such a popular coin and no, no such thing existed in from the Canadian mint. It was a very good marketing

idea Isaac came up with. He's like, people love the American eagle. Let's give them a silver Canadian eagle. Very easy transition, very easy for the salesman to sell. So Eugene enters into these contracts and then he sells the contract, quickly sells a contract to us. He makes $0.50 a coin, let's say, I'll say like a silver coin, and we buy the rights from him. And then we determine the quantity of coins that we want to purchase, right?

It's solely determined by us. So we're creating the market. We're saying we're going to mint 200,000 of these coins, 300 thousands of these coins. So when they say, well, these are numismatic, well, they're only numismatic because you decided to mint such a small quantity of them can. You can you define that term for folks who are not precious. Numismatic. It's just collectible. It's just a rarer coin that's collectible.

You know, there's, there's folks out there who will buy kind of like these odd coins at a higher premium, like the, the premium being the amount above the ask price on the open market. So if you just type in gold or silver ask price right now, it'll give you an ask price in the open market. That is the ask price worldwide for what it counts for one Tri ounce of silver. The premium is anything that you pay above that. So whether that's a dollar, whether that's $10, whether that's $100.00.

So numismatic coins have a higher premium because there's less of them in the market. And for whatever reason, it could be age, it could be that they only minted 10,000 of them, it could be there's a whole very slew of variables, but essentially that they are going to fetch a higher premium. That is the amount above the ask price that you will pay. OK. It's because of the way that they're minted. It's because of the scarcity, theoretically, of whatever that species is that you're buying,

correct? Correct. Yeah. And it could be, could be just a super old coin, right? Like it could be like a Roman coin that has like a 10th of an ounce of gold, if that, but it's worth a lot because it's old. Right. So, yeah, you've got an old denarius or something. You've got some sort of coin that comes out of, you know, some sort of old culture or you've got something that was struck in the US mints at the turn of the Civil War.

There's like steel nickels used to have a certain premium to it, right? Like certain things that were misprinted would have a a value because over, over and above what the actual metal itself was. So that makes them numismatic. Is that is that right? Essentially correct, Yep. So the term is loosely used, but it means collectible in general. OK, So the way that so Augusta, to be clear, Augusta never ever made the claim that the coins

were numismatic not one time. And that was because they knew that this was going to be a problem. You can't sell a numismatic coin to be held in your IRA. And that's the big, other big part of this is the IRA angle. This these these guys aren't just selling you like for cash. They're not calling you and saying, hey, what how much cash you have in the bank post tax in order for me to sell you this. No, they're going specifically for 50 plus conservative

Christian IRA money. This is people's retirement accounts. So, and that's very important to understand because that's where they make 99% of their money and that's every single one of these guys. So they enter into these exclusive contracts, they mint a very small amount, 200, three, 100,000 coins. And then they say, well, this coin is worth more. The premium is more because there's only a limited supply, but they're controlling the supply.

So their only reason there's a limited mintage is because they chose to have a limited mintage. So they're using basic economic principles of supply and demand. So they create the supply and then they create, create fake demand. So you're, you're a customer, you call in, say, Oh yeah, we have this brand new coin. We're only minting 200,000 of them. We've already sold 100,000. We're going to have 200 and 200,000 left, whatever.

And that's why this coin is worth 2X what your typical Silver American Eagle would be. And that that's a very rudimentary way of going about selling the coin, but that's one of the tactics used there. But the reality is they're not worth any more than a Silver American Eagle. In fact, they're worth less because if that business goes defunct like Merit Financial did, your coins are now worth

$0.00. In fact, they're worth less than the ask price because there's no secondary market for your coin. So what I mean by that is if I buy a Silver American Eagle, I can go to any mom and pop shop around here, I can go to any online retailer and I can resell that Silver American Eagle very easily. They know what the coin is, they know when it, when and where it was minted. They know how much the value is. They know what the premium is

going for, right? So very easy, but if I bring them one of the coins from Augusta or Merit Financial or one of these other companies, these premium and these exclusive coins, because they're exclusive to Augusta, they have the sole ability to distribute in the primary market. So you sell me this coin, I have the your coin and now I go to a mom and pop shop. They're going to go, I don't know what this coin is. This isn't worth.

Anything, it's melt value at best, which is that ask and then maybe some less than that because they're still going to want to make a profit on it when they buy it from you. Correct. So melt value isn't actually asks. And this is where it gets confusing because terms are used interchangeably, the melt value is actually typically less than ask because ask is what the Troy

oz is actually worth. But then you're not taking into account what the dealer or you know, pawn shop or whatever it is. They're going to the cost that they're going to incur to melt that coin. Because what they're going to do is they're going to take all their silver, all their gold that is to them worthless, has no secondary market. They're going to put it in a melting pot and they're going to make bars or coins or they're going to sell it to someone else so that they can make bars or

coins. So really the melt value is less than ask. So it's you're going to get 2 to 5% less than ask. It's going to go in a melt pot and it's going to go away because there's no secondary market. So if a company goes out of business like Merit Financial, like metals.com, like Red Rock Secured, which was a company I mentioned, Shade Johnson Kelly, that was his company. They were sued by the SEC and CFTC for the exact same reason that. Yeah. What were they called again?

Red Rock secured is what they're called so and we'll there's a. Couple other one, I feel like there was one that was called maybe Olympic or Olympian or something to that. I mean, there's a number of these. They, they, they pop up and they go away. Correct. And so the so then so they have this contract, they have the sole use. So they're creating fake supply, they're creating fake demand. And then it's about hard sales. Then it's about can I sell you that coin? Kyle?

Can you, when you call in and you tell me, hey, I saw your advertisement on this show and I'm really interested in finding out more. Can I qualify you? Pre qualification is usually $25,000. They're not going to deal with you unless you have 25 grand or more. You get pre qualified by a salesman, usually what we call a junior salesman or they call them grain, meaning they've got no experience.

Their job is basically to learn from their, their account executive, the guy, the next guy up, and while learning they pre qualify. So let's say that you and I are working together. We're A-Team. I'm your opener. I get a call from Susie. Susie says I have $30,000. I pre qualify. I vet, I make sure it's legitimate and then I pass them off to you. What is that? Yeah, just for people because I, I think a lot of the folks are going to be interested in what that call looks like.

What is the pre qualify? This is a checklist, obviously, where they're going to try to check it. What are they? What are they specifically looking for in order to pre qualify? Do you have $25,000 or more of liquid cash or assets? You could have other assets. So you could have silver American Eagles or gold American Eagles in your account that we

can. So if you have assets in terms of silver, gold American eagles, can we flip you out, what we call flip you out of those into the premium assets? That is, we are going to buy those from you and then sell you the premium and then and then we'll sell them to a wholesaler. And this is specifically retirement account assets? So. Do you have, let's say you have $100,000 in your IRA right now or your 4O1K that that would be good? That'd be enough? Yep. Plenty.

And our goal is to take you out of you and I are selling. We're, we're going to go scam somebody because that's what this sounds like to me. And I worked in sales for long enough to understand what a legit sale and what the scam looks like. But my, my goal with you, you're going to pre qualify. You're making sure, do you have 100K? Do you have 30 K plus or whatever in your individual retirement account, in your 4O1K mutual funds stocks could be precious metals, doesn't matter.

We're going to try to flip you out of them. Is that correct? Correct. Absolutely. OK. It's usually asking real strange. Usually it's not stocks. Usually it would be just like liquid assets, cash or other physical assets like silver or gold. American Eagles is what we'd look for. OK. They wouldn't want to see somebody necessarily cash out of a mutual fund and then turn around and reinvest that person's. Not yeah, they would. They would so, but they wouldn't.

I don't know that we would necessarily encourage that. Well, actually they would. They would encourage it, but I obviously we wouldn't deal in the stocks. It would be like, hey, sell those and then when you have the cash come back to us, right? Sure. So like I'm, I'm using swab, I can easily liquid, I I can hit, you know, sell right now and I can have that liquid in my Schwab account, No. Problem, Yeah, yeah. So in that case, yeah, that would be true.

It's just obviously I've never dealt with that because I wouldn't be taking, I wouldn't take your, your stocks and switch them out for assets, right, Sure. Physical assets. So, yeah, absolutely. I mean, if, if, look, if you had more than $25,000, they're going to work with you because you're going to remember the salesman are making anywhere between 7 to 50, 15% Commission, maybe 20%.

I think at one point we did 20% on as we were getting going as we're ramping up in order to entice salesman from the other companies to quit there and come work for us. So we were like, hey, we'll give you 20% + a signing bonus of like 10 grand if you come work for us because the up, the upside of that is where our profit margin is like 20% net

after. That's after spending millions on Fox, as I said, after Newsmax, that's after paying the commission's Commission salespeople, that's after paying the administration like 20. You're talking 1520% net profit margin. So we're doing. The company. Of the company, so we're doing forty $45 million, we're in like 5 million. So this is after all, payroll, all expenses, everything. That's what I want to pump the brakes on.

So my my limited experience in any of these gold companies and it doesn't matter whether it's an Alpha Gold or a Birch Gold or a Gold Co or you name it, they all have the same sort of idea. They're all selling these very limited run exclusive premium types of coinage and they're all looking for gold Iras. And so if you and I are working in the sales team and you're the junior guy and you say, OK, do you have a IRA? What's your IRA worth? Oh, it's worth 150,000.

It's worth 100,000. That's a real easy number to work with here. So you got 100,000. OK, what is it in? It's in mutual funds, it's in stocks. It's in, it's in eagles, you know, gold eagles or silver eagles or whatever. And we want to liquidate that. My as a sales guy who knows how to be unscrupulous because I know what that looks like. I'm not, but that's how I know what it looks like because I've seen scams. It's like, well, now I need to just put you a little bit of fear into you.

The market's really vulnerable right now. There's trade tariffs coming in in you could see a total drop in your assets. You won't have any value left if you you know, close it out, put it in something safe, stable, secure, gold, silver. This is the pitch I've seen the pitch you have to right, This is what these guys are going to do.

So now we're going to get you to buy in and you're saying that after they do that sale and they get $100,000 for somebody to tell us, just use that number because it's easy. They're going to pay $20,000 to the sales guy who did the conversion they. We did for the first few months, I think it was, was it right? It was just 20,000. It was right. It was right at 20%. And we did it for a very limited time because it's not.

That isn't sustainable, right? So no, I was going to say that's that's a shocking amount of money. But if they did what? What was the sustainable about 15? Usually we would do between 7:00 and 10:00. OK, so let's. Say so even at 10, that's 10 grand. Like, and here's the thing, that's $10,000 of your retirement money that you worked your whole life for.

And I'm going to take 10%. Whole life and I'm going to take 10% now do you think if I LED as a salesman with hey when you buy these assets that I'm hard selling you you don't want these you're calling you've done some preliminary research you know that gold and silver American eagles are the go to but you call me excuse me but you call me and I hard sell you excuse me no take your time on on these assets and I if I were to tell you upfront I don't want you to buy these gold and silver

American eagles. I want you to buy these coins that I'm hard selling you and I'm pushing you to buy right and that's the thing I'm pushing you to buy I'm going to keep 10% like 10% will be paid to me That's right John Doe directly. Do you think anyone in their right minds would ever? I'm missing that. Why would I give you 10%?

Of yeah, but let's even zoom further out because you mentioned not only are they going to pay the sales guy 10%, so he's going to take $10,000 from your hundred, they are going to take some of it. That's going to offset the advertising couple percentage points there because they got you from Fox. So it costs money to go there. And then you said at the end of the day, the company is still going to harvest 20%. 15 to 20%. That's called 15.

And and if you go economies of scale here, that's that's just what we're guess we're small fish. We were just a small fish, big pond. But we're talking about your $100,000 that you've spent your life putting away, that you've put away at $7000 a year if you maxed out your contributions kind of deal, right? Or maybe put it away at $5000 a year.

Most people don't even have 400 bucks to rub together and someone's going to take $25,000 of your 100 grand right off the top before anything happens, is that correct? Correct. Well, well more because then the rest that goes through the net profit is still retained by the company. So the reality is so the numbers shake out like this. So let's let's do an actual trade. Let's do an actual trade. OK, let's do it. You call in, you want to buy.

Let's use easy numbers because it's super easy to follow, $100,000 you have $100,000. You call in, you want to buy $100,000 of assets. Let's skip the sales process and go straight to the meat of this. Let's say you agree to buy these assets of, so we sell you $100,000 of what we call premium Gold. Our markup is over 100%, OK, So it's double what you'd pay for a typical Gold American Eagle. Our markup's over 100% and our spread is is 29%.

So what that means is what the spread means is you call and you buy from me and you give me $100,000. I'd give you your assets. Let's say that to the same day you get into a horrible accident or something and you need that money back and we say, well, we've already purchased the assets for you and, and in order for you to sell them back to us, we're going to we're going to only pay you the spread, which

is 29%. That means that if you were to buy and sell on the same day, we would only give you $71,000 of your $100,000 back. How many companies do you think? Disclose their spread. I bet none. There's one instance where there was a company that was sued because of this and they ended up lowering their spread. They still have the same business model, but they lowered their spread and disclosed it to to the their clients because they were sued into doing so. And they still exist today that

lawsuits out there. And but this is prevalent. This is every single company. And The thing is that the shade Johnson Kelly's, who was Augusta's VP that started red Rock secured. He doesn't care about that because he can set up a he can set up a precious metals company and he can sell those assets at 100% markup. He can take his 20% non profit. He only has to operate from one year and he's a multi multi millionaire, multi multi

millionaire. And he was one of the best salesman we had at Augusta. You, you and then he gets shut down and then you have a group of folks from his company who then start their own company or maybe 2 like with merit, two groups of people split off and they go start. So now you have from out of the ashes of the phoenix, two rise, and this is like. Freaking gremlins, man.

Like you feed them after they, you know, you kill one and they, they multiply and they just pop up because everybody sees that there's money to be had and all you got to do is change the name, hang a new shingle, start a new call center. It requires almost nothing. You're you're up, your startup is nothing and. They're all stealing from each other. So when Shade left Augusta, he stole Augusta's leads and he went and started and I, and I

laugh and I, it's not funny. But it's just, this is the degeneracy of the industry, right? Because the merit got sued into the ground and the how we started was we used merits stolen lead database that was brought by one of the other guys, right? And then Shade and Isaac get into a dispute about salary. Shade was making like 750,000 + a year by the way, working 30 hours a week, right? Getting a 1 1/2% override on all of the sales in the sales floor because he was the sales floor

manager. So that sales floor is pulling in, you know, 1,000,000 bucks. He gets a a point and a half just for showing up, doesn't have to do any work and then he gets a cut. If a guy cannot sell hard sell a client. They would do what what's called a why my blanket on this basically an override where they would confirm the client. What we would say confirm is we have agreed to sell you the assets.

And then we let them sit for a couple of days and then shade calls and says, Hey, I was just reviewing your portfolio. And Matt, I really think you're making a bad decision here, right? So you've had the hard sell. You've had the guy sometimes screaming at you on the film that you're an idiot. You don't know what you're talking about. I know what I'm talking about. I've done this for 50 years. I've seen that. By the way, I'm you're dumb. I'm not going to sell you these

things. I've seen salesman, just to give you an idea, when a client wouldn't buy the premium assets, send the money back to the client and said I'm not going to sell you these assets because I don't believe in these assets and you're an idiot. I've been doing this forever. I'm just going to send you your money back.

And they would, you'd send the money back because they don't make Commission on bullion, they don't make Commission on silver and gold, American Eagles. So why would I sell you something if it only benefits the company? If it only benefits the company the three 3 to 5%, I don't get a cut of that. So to be clear, they actually did also offer traditional products which would be bullion coins, American Eagles, etcetera. You could buy those. There's just no markup in it.

So there's no money in it for the sales guy. So they are hard wired to go after the thing that's actually going to make a money. Correct, absolutely. The direct incentive is you sell these premium coins. If you don't sell a premium coins, if you showed up to work and you had a whole week of not selling anything, let's say you didn't sell anything, you get minimum wage, the minimum wage. So, but if you sell, you earn seven and a half, 10 percent, 15% of the value of whatever that sale is.

And most of our sales were at least six figures. You know, you had some that would be under 6 figures, but the majority are over six figures. You know, these are these are folks 50 + 60 + 70 plus sometimes 80 plus that are investing a large portion if not all of their retirement into these assets. So the salesman. Have a side of their home. It's it's probably the majority of their network. Correct. What you should never do, always diversify. Only hold about 20% Max in in

physical. If you're going to do that and I'm not a financial advisor, talk to your financial advisor. But do not invest all of your money into one asset. This is just this is just investment one O 1. Just don't do it and especially don't do it if you hear the term premium coin or exclusive coin or you're being hard sold an asset you don't want. Stick to the gold and silver American Eagles rule of thumb. Yeah.

What's crazy is so we've had, like I said, my previous guests recommended that I have you on and talk about this. He's seen it from his side where people are trying to figure out what to do. I've been basically swindled out of my whole life savings, what comes next And often times because he is a reputable dealer and he does, he's done $12 billion with the gold sales. Andy and I have talked plenty offline as well, but he's done $12 billion for the bullion and

he makes 3 to 5% tops. Best case scenario. You know, it's just it's a block business. It's cut throat market, like half a percent will lose you $1,000,000 deal. I mean, really, that's what the bullion deals are, but the premium deals aren't that way. Right. And the and the real companies

that are doing this are buying. You know, I accidentally got one of his text messages that I don't think was meant for me, but it was talking about the number of armored trucks or semis they would have to have in to bring in the bulk of the value. Because the way that these guys are able to make a living or be able to make even those margins is by buying, you know, 10s of millions of dollars worth of assets at any given time. And then they sell it out in the

retail market. That's what the wholesale looks like. So if you're going to do that business, you're doing it on very, very slim margins and you're doing it in bulk. That's the only way it happens. These guys are doing crazy what you said, exclusive or premium retail, and it's based on false scarcity is all that's what I would call it. Is that accurate? False. Scarcity, yeah. So, so you're hitting the nail on the head. So you have you have low margin, high sales and you have high

margin, low sales. We're talking about high margin. Now they want to be high margin a lot of sales because then they make more money, right? All the executives make more money. And I, I think what's important is a lot of these guys are people you wouldn't trust watching your kids. Literally, you know, you will have degenerate gamblers, Alcoholics, you have just I mean you name it, your typical, I guess you could say stereotypical salesman mentality kind of environment.

You know, you think what? What was that one good this. Is Glengarry Glen Roth. This is more in the room. This is like guys who are basically hard selling asset. You can go watch Wall Street you can see. There you go, Wolf of Wall Street. There you go. Wolf of Wall Street or the original Wall Street with watching it with what's his name now? I can't think of his name. He's so good. Michael Douglas is in there and

and Charlie Sheen do it right. So they're they're they're out there hustling people for their money. They're doing 0 sum transactions where if I take everything you have, I sleep at night just fine because I go and wake up and drive to work in a in a Ferrari. Yeah, and. I know who these people are, by the way.

And then so do you. And so does some people don't realize how much, what capacity some human beings have for complete evil, where they're going to bankrupt an 80 year old person who doesn't have another way of making a living, who's not going to recover from this. They're going to die penniless. Yeah. Absolutely.

And you know, one of the things that that really like gets me is so I worked with a, a guy named Jeremy Miller at the Washington Post. I had tried, I've tried, by the way, Kyle, for seven years now to get this story out there. I've posted on Jordan Peterson's Reddit subreddit where you go,

you know, write a letter to him. I've post, I've sent emails to all of them, every single influencer that you can imagine from Hannity to Ben Shapiro to all these guys and just said, hey, there was a very good chance. You know, I don't have solid evidence. I'm not claiming they are doing this, but there is a very good chance that these guys operate in the same way that the company I worked for operated in. Here's my whistleblower complaint. I redact all of the information

that needs to be redacted. Here's my whistleblower complaint. Guys, you really should consider not doing, not selling for these companies. I because I believe that these guys, they're not complicit. I don't think that they know this is happening now, I think. They do. You think so? See I, I, I. I'm going to tell you why. I'm going to tell you why this this is slightly different than interview. This is just two guys sharing

some information. So I launched a podcast in this podcast, we launched in February of 2023, right? And I relatively quickly picked up a few 1000 followers, which is not enough to monetize, generally speaking. And we had a small company that jumped in with us right away. They were friends of family. They knew what my position was. They wanted to be part of it. I came at them and they said, how much is it going to cost to advertise? I said, I don't know, 10,000 bucks a month.

And they go, yeah, I don't think that's going to cut it. So they came back with about a 10th of that. And it's like, OK, fine, that makes sense. Yeah, I get it. I don't understand how cost per impressions work. I didn't understand how any of the business this worked and I didn't want to. It wasn't what I started doing. You know, I used to be an FBI agent. That was my gym.

I was the guy that people called when they got scammed and they bought coins at 20 times the cost and they spent 1/4 of $1,000,000 on a dozen coins that didn't have that actual value. So that was my, you know, background into this and somebody came to me from one of the gold companies and they said we're willing to, you know, would you like to talk about

having a gold sponsor? The first thing that happens whenever you have a, a tiny audience is all the gold companies will reach out and the people who are selling on their behalf, not a Ben Shapiro, but think several tiers below Ben Shapiro. The folks who have 20 or 30 or 50,000 people in their audience, you'll go on their show and a week or two later they'll call you up and say, you know, do you have a gold sponsor? They all offer it.

It's the first thing that I was offered every single time, multiple times over. Dale, do you have a gold sponsor? I said no. I. Do you think that they know that this is how they operate? No, I don't. And this is so this is there's it's, it's a level of understanding, right. And and So what I think happens here is I think that when I got the call and they said, do you have a gold sponsor? I said no. And they said, can I put you in touch with my gold guy?

And I went sure. I'm in the business of making connections, no big deal. And somebody says, you know, they'll pay you $3000 a month plus 10% of everything that closes that you refer to them $3000 a month plus 10 + 10% of the of the close. Are you, how is that possible? Maybe it's 5%, maybe it's 1 1/2%. But in a business that has 3% margins, you're not paying me upfront a dollar per follower that I have or a dollar per

prescriber. That's not physically possible to be able to make a dollar unless you're charging 100%. And from what Andy Scheckman told me, some of these people are charging 200% premiums and no problem doing if they can do it. So if they're going to go out there and get a niche market, they're going to go find the Kyle Seraphin show audience. They're going to find the Dale

Whitaker show. They're going to say, yo, you got a podcast, you got a couple couple 1000 people and they trust you because you've built up a reputation on being someone who says true things. That's when they get, they go to those people. So as a guy who sits here who's scrupulous, if you offer me money that's too good to be true, it doesn't make sense for what I'm doing and nobody else is going to pay it. There's something's going on. I just knew right away that it was wrong.

I didn't know the mechanism. I learned the mechanism from Andy. I'm learning it even more from you. So that makes sense and I can tell you that you should there should have been some questions for these people and and I. Agree and some of them and and and what's interesting is some of these guys have been doing have been advertising for these guys for 20 years and have literally made their millions and millions off of this so that's. Right.

They've literally, they've, they've built old people for every penny that they had and squeezed them out and made them penniless so that their audience will die in poverty so that they can drive a Rolls Royce. I mean, for me, this is really evil, you know? OK, so you're working in there. How how much of that did you understand as you were working? Kind of give me the progression as you were.

Working, yeah. So this and then and I was going to get to that because this is I know that there's going to be a bunch of people going something's not right here. How did you not know? So I think segregation was part of the the the process. So remember I'm working remotely in Washington state and the office is in LA, so I was only there once, maybe twice a year. OK, so and that was usually for

a Christmas party. So even then we're not selling around Christmas. No one's buying gold, but everyone's focus on, excuse me, everyone's focused on the on, on Christmas, right? So no one's really worried about investing in gold around Christmas time. So we'd fly down, my wife and I'd fly down and, and we'd go to a Christmas party and Isaac and I maybe would grab lunch or something and just chitchat. But it wasn't, you know, I wasn't really on site a whole lot.

There was a segregate. There was one period of time where I was there for a week and I really got an insight to just like the general atmosphere of the office. It was very LAX atmosphere. But it's interesting because if you buy bullion and, and you have a salesman that's willing to sell you the bullion, they'll call you a bully head. So it's a pejorative. It's like, hey, yeah, he's a, he's an effing bully head is what they would say, right? And just not worth my time, right?

That kind of thing. So if you're someone who was actually going to buy good assets, what are actually good assets, that's a pejorative for them because you don't make them any money. In other words, the bully head was the was the customer on the phone. They didn't want to talk to him. The bully head is the person who will only buy bullion. They're not going to buy the premium coins. The the people who are going, Nope, I don't want that. I want bullion.

But what's interesting is they still want to buy it from the firm that's advertising on whoever's show. So it's like they don't want to buy it from you just, and Isaac would encourage them just to sell it. At that point, if you've exhausted all of your sales techniques and you're not able to do it, just sell them the bullion. That's what Isaac would say. But then the guys would say, well, you make money, we don't make money. So why would we do that, right?

So anyway, so a lot of it is segregation. So back to your question, how did I not figure it out? So a lot of it's segregation. So I'm really overseeing financials. A trade would come in, it would get sent to me. I would process this, the trade, I would send Eugene a purchase order. He would then process that order and that was it. I built my sales file, you know, I'm, I'm really hands off. I don't see the, the real scope of the, the sales floor. You know, we had a transaction agreement.

Why would I read a transaction agreement? I'm the accountant, I'm not the attorney, so you know were. You were you doing payroll too or no? Yeah, I was doing everything intend. Yeah. OK. So you're seeing, but at least you're seeing the numbers that these guys are getting paid and what these people are making. Yeah, and so part of me, so, you know, part of me, I guess being young. So there's another element to

this too. And, and this isn't an excuse, but it is just my way of thinking at the time. I come from a very poor family in the northeast of the UK. I've never seen $100,000 or I've never even seen $60,000 in my life. So I go from making, you know, basically a couple of bucks over minimum wage working as a head bookkeeper at a local company to making $60,000 in a year. That's life changing money for me, right? That's money I've never seen. I'm now living what we perceive

to be the American dream. And then it got better. I only got better because at the end of the year Isaac gave me a $40,000 bonus in my first year. So I didn't just make sixty $40,000 in one sitting, one wire transaction $40,000. Then the next year I got bumped to $90,000 base and I was getting $60,000 bonuses right. So so I'm you don't. And, and I understand that instinct. I mean, look, I, I worked at a before I went to the FBI, I worked at a movie studio. This is just where the stock

numbers. I think my audience kind of finds it because I'll, I'll just play open. I like to play open cards with people. So I made almost $100,000 a year working for a movie studio at at 25 years old, which was wild money for me. I was like, wow, that's crazy. And then I enlisted in the military and I made $1800 a month. You know, you just go, you go right back down into the toilet and you make no money. And that's fine.

That's what I signed up for. So before I joined the FBI, I made about 13 or 14 bucks an hour working in a hospital, working as an emergency room paramedic, no big deal. And it was fine. I didn't need that much money. And I turned around to the FBI. I made 65 grand a year. And like you, I was like, man, I'm I'm crushing it again. I'm feeling back in the life is pretty good. I can afford to have a family, which we did.

So I get where that comes from, where you're not necessarily looking around going like, how do I shoot this gift horse and put it down? For me it was, for me it was, you know, at the time. So I gave my life to the Lord in 2015. So at the time, prior to that, I was not, I wasn't a believer at all. I was more agnostic, but I wasn't a believer at all. I didn't really. And I found value money. I did. That was my, that was how I perceived the American dream, like a lot of folks do, is to

have money. That was my, my value was wrapped up in the money. My value was wrapped up in buying a $600.00 jacket from like Men's Wearhouse or whatever, right? It was Joseph A Banks, actually. But you know I did those right? And that. Was it's how men keep score. It's how young men keep score, for sure. It's like, what are you making? What are you worth? What do you? Drive and you drive. Yeah, Yeah, I got a Range Rover, right. Oh yeah, you're killing it.

Yeah, so why breakdown? On you. Obviously, though, it's gonna. Breakdown on you everywhere. It was awful. It was a bad car. It was not good. It's a British car, isn't it? Yeah, it is. Yeah, they're they're awful like UK right now, but let's not talk about that. So I digress. So yes, there was a bit of segregations, you know, keeping me at arm's length, keeping me away from the sales floor. The the first like kind of niggle of doubt was I had an assistant and he said, hey, man,

do you think we can? And he's very good at math, way better than I ever will be very good at math. He goes, hey, man, do you think you, you could actually make money on premium coins? And I said, yeah, of course it's easy. You know, you buy it $100, we have a 29% spread. You just wait till the market moves, you know, 45%, boom, you made money, right? He goes, yeah, man, I don't think so. So he sits down and just like the end of this calculation.

And and so I'm like, I'm like, no, man, I was like, no, you can make money, man. It's a simple math. The market moves enough to to cover your spread. You're making money. It's that simple. What I didn't take into account was that within the transaction agreement, it is very vague how our coins are calculated. Where is the premium coming from from?

Well, the premium is made-up. Isaac would just throw like we Isaac and I would get on a Skype call and he'd, I'd share my screen with the product sheet and he'd go, what does 50% look? I'm not kidding. What does 50% from cost to bid look like? That's it. What is it like no, that, that number doesn't look right. Just try 42%. And then we do that. And then he goes, OK, now let's, let's calculate in the spread and, and get to our ass cuz it's kind of a reverse calculation.

But the, the point being, it was just like whimsical. It was like, let's throw this out there and, and see what this number looks like. And if it feels good to me, then that's what we're going with. Really, he was. Yeah. He was trying on what profit margins look like essentially and said, OK, that looks like I can pull that off and I'll be able to sell it to people and

he's just doing it based on his instinct. 100% it was just based on. No, there's no evaluation of like, what gold is going to do. There's no, you know, complex calculation of how gold has worked historically. And it's like, Nope, it's just like, I need to make this much money. How much do I think I could scam out of people? And that's how I'm going to do it. Yep. And you'd think, okay, well, Dale, that's kind of odd. Well, it's not when you own the product, right?

You set your own margins. You're you're, you're, you have no middle men. So you don't have to worry about paying a distributor and the distributor having a hold on the market, whatever. So it's just worth direct to consumer and, and, and part of this. So I talked to NPR, OK, so, and what they said was, so I give them a bunch of evidence. They said this, this issue is too complicated for our average viewer. And not only that, this is an element of willing buyer,

willing seller. And that just pissed me off. I mean, it really did. And it's just like I have more faith in listeners that even if they don't fully understand what we're talking about, the people that really want to know, they're going to go do extra research, right? They're going to go and look up what the melt value is, what the bid in the ask is, right? They're going to going to look into this and I just think we don't give people enough credit.

So that really that really hit me the wrong way and it felt like a real major blow because this was back in 2019. This is very early on of me getting going and after I found my whistleblower complaint. But what really, who did you file with, by the way? So initially with the CFTC? OK, so let's come back to that. Let me let me just wrap this up so that the viewers understand. Great how I found out.

So, so there was that kind of niggle from my assistant and then I never really thought much of it. I mean, we were really busy, so there wasn't really time to think about it. So then Fast forward a few months and Isaac called me. And he calls me and he says, hey, we have a client and I know the client's name, but I'm obviously I'm not going to disclose it, but he says we have a client he wants to sell and this guy's in his 80s. He wants to sell 5000 coins back to us.

Can you share your screen with me? So share my screen. Everything was done on Skype. So share my screen, show him the product sheet. He goes, I want you to reduce the bid price. OK, So for those viewers that don't understand what this means is you have your spread of 29%. When you reduce the bid price, you are increasing the spread from 29 percent to 50% to 70%, whatever it is, which means that we pay the customer less money.

OK, so the so he's saying we're not going to pay this customer 29%, We're going to pay them, sorry, we're not going to give this customer 29% spread. We're going to give them a 50% spread and give them less money. It was only 5000 coins. It wasn't a lot of coins. And so I just went like, I just instantly knew something was wrong. I'm just like, why? And he goes, because I don't want to pay that much. And I'm like, yeah, but we have an agreement with our clients that our spread is 29%.

He says no. And this is how I found out about the transaction agreement. He says, well, our transaction agreement says that we have control of the coin. So I, I'm like, I'm like, yeah, man. But like we that's might be true. But like we have, we told them 29 percent, 20, like the market moves, whatever. We have control of the coin. In other words, we control what we say the value of the coin is. Absolutely. If you read the transaction agreement, it's vague. It's so vague.

OK, so let's let's really parse that out lest people miss it. And again, I agree with you. I think NPR doesn't give people enough credit. But also it's just a matter of explaining things. They are artificially saying this coin, it was worth a dollar when we sold it to you and you agreed it was worth a dollar. And I agreed it was worth a dollar and you paid a dollar for it.

And I'm going to turn around and say, actually, since I own all the coins and I can adjust the price, I am the sole arbiter of the price of this coin. I'm going to manually take it down to $0.50. Yep, 100% and if you read the transaction agreements. Or I say it's worth more and so I'm going to pay you like, you know, I can say less if I'm going to buy them back from you. I can say it's worth more if I'm going to sell it to you. I. Think that's it. And this is where the true

nature of the scam. So there's all these setups, right? Like there's the exclusivity, there's, there's the hard sell and so on. But this is where the scam truly unfolds because you think that you have this portfolio that's worth $100,000 and you understand, maybe you do understand that maybe your guy did tell you that you have a 29% spread. Let's say that that's true and I have it. I have someone by the way, right now I just received.

So I've been helping people for the past couple of years get their money back behind the scenes and I just had someone reach out to me and I just did a huge analysis. Took me about four hours yesterday. They have a pretty complicated portfolio and I just did a huge analysis. Gold, Gold has tripled, Silver has more than doubled since they purchased and they're still going and they they're spot to spot difference is only

$100,000. If they had purchased silver and gold American eagles at the same time they purchased premium, they would have gained over $350,000. But because of the nature of the, the premium coins, when the they go to sell these coins back to this company, there may be may I mean, I, I told them you're lucky if you're going to net 100,000, lucky if you're going to net 100,000 because they're going to do everything they can to not pay you, your

spread everything they can. So, and in the transaction agreement, it's right there. It says like, it says vague things like the, the coin is not necessarily tied to spot in the open market. The coin is, is very, there are variable market conditions. Well, what does that mean? What, what does that mean? Right. What is what do variable market conditions mean? Supply, demand and so on and so on.

So vague that. And basically what that does is it gives them the freedom to just say we can do whatever the heck we want and you have no legal standing. Let's do another analogy because I I'm all about giving people things. They can grab onto it and you tell me if this fits. You walk into a casino and you have your money. You got, you got 10,000 bucks and you buy $10,000 worth of chips. So you get chips. They have numbers on them and they are one to one tied to the $10,000 you put in.

You sit down at the table, you play, let's say you're up. Let's say you come back with 15,000 and they say, well, those chips aren't worth the dollar amounts that they say because the value has changed. Because we control the chips. We're only going to give you back 8000 bucks. Yeah. It's the same damn game and if you, you would never go to a casino like that ever. Ever. And you would never like They'd be out of business immediately. They'd be shut down by every

gaming convention. Yeah, 100%. And but The thing is these aren't regulated commodities. These are physical assets. And that's these, that's where Andy said it's so crazy because there is zero federal regulation of. This 0 regulation and what's really just so so how I found out. So he calls me and he asked me to manipulate the spread. He says within the transaction agreement, you do not have like

we we can do this essentially. And I and I just went, hey man, you do what you want, but keep me out of it. I was like flushed red with adrenaline. I'm like, something is, I knew instantly something wasn't right. And I'm like, hey, man, you do what you want, but like, keep me out of it. And he he I'll never forget. He literally laughed. He laughed. And then he tells us and he

goes, wait, you're serious? And I'm like, yeah, man, like, dude, you do whatever you want, but like, leave me out of it, right? Like I, I don't, I'm not going to do this. And then we hung up and I run upstairs. My wife was, had had gotten into a bad car accident. She was at at home for a couple of years. And I came upstairs and I went to my wife and I just went something is seriously wrong. Seriously wrong. That's why that's when I knew.

Yeah, What did that feel like? Dude, I was so flushed with adrenaline and just like kind of like you're, you're kind of like dizzy, like you're, you like, what do I do? Like what do I do? I don't know what to do, right? Like you're confused. It's almost like, OK, I know this thing happened. I know what now I understand what's happening, but what do I do right? And so I didn't know what to do. Have you ever have you ever been scammed out of anything before? Sold.

Something I've never had that kind of money. I mean, there's a. Well, nothing, not even big money. But have you ever bought something and then just been like, Oh my God, what did I just do? Like how did I just? Hold. I mean, I bought bad products for sure, Yeah, I mean I bought bad products, but nothing that would lose your life savings, right? I mean. Sure. I'm just trying to. I'm trying to, I've been in that

scenario. Let's say you were like at a car dealership or something and you, and you walked off and then you really like, you know, like a lemon deal. Or maybe you're buying something, you know, you buy AI bought RV's and things like that. And you have that moment of panic where you're like, what if I just threw $10,000 into the toilet because this thing is not worth it. You know, is it actually worth the thing I did? I mean, you're, you're actually basically looking at your livelihood.

What supports you, your wife and you're going like, what if we're just taking everybody's stuff? But also at the same time like you can't keep doing that. Yeah, so the way so so I came to this realization, then I started actually. So I so when Isaac had told me what happened at Merritt, I just kind of took his word for it. I mean, I didn't know anything about the market. I'm wet behind the ears. I know nothing, right. So he's telling me what

happened. Oh, they were doing things that weren't right and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he said that's why because he remember he left before Merritt went under. He left and started Augusta just kind of Willy nilly and was just doing things right. He, he, he was, he wasn't at merit for like 2 years before they went out of business. So he's like, yeah, that's kind of why I laughed. So I'm like, oh, this is stand up guy, right? So, so, but the reality is he

was doing the exact same thing. He was just concealing it better. And so part of that was playing on my ignorance and part of that was playing on the fact that he could see I was hungry just like everyone else. Like I wanted that, you know, I wanted to chase the dollar. I wanted to be successful. I wanted the money. So we, when it came to that realization, I mean, I guess my heart sunk and, and you know what, credit to my wife, I mean, she's an amazing woman, but credit to my wife.

You know, I, I struggled for a few weeks, started doing a bunch of research and I had just become a a believer about two, 2 1/2 years before. So still kind of new to my faith, but I was trying to to work by my faith and the Lord just wouldn't let me sleep. He just like it was just every night when I was sleeping an hour, 2 hours a night. And then I'd go sit at my desk to work and an order would come

in and it would take everything. Dude, like to not call that person be like calling cancel your order calling cancel your order. But at this point I'd engage with my attorney and we were still we were gathering, gathering all the evidence. I need more time and I just finally, I, I called my so I finally went to my wife and I was just like, after about two weeks of not sleeping and just really, and I just said to her, I said, babe, I got to quit.

I, I can't, I can't, I'm, is it this, it was destroying myself. Like I, I just every single time someone's order came through, that's someone's grandma, that's someone's mom, that's, that's their life savings. And my, my wife, dude, credit to her. She hadn't, she, like I said, she has a house cleaning business. She hadn't worked for 2 1/2 years. She had a really bad car accident. Someone hit her head on. She'd cracked a couple of vertebrae into her lowest spine and she'd gotten better.

She'd been doing physical therapy and stuff and she said OK, And she just started calling her old clients like that day, dude, no, no hesitation, no, what are we going to do? It was just, we're going to fix this. And you know, if that's what you need to do and the Lord's telling you to do it, you're going to do it. You're going to be obedient. And so, you know, credit to my

wife. And then I called my attorney and they want me to stay because it was, it would have been more valuable probably for me to be there while we're filing the complaint. And I just said, guys, I can't do it. I just can't. It's soul crushing. Every time an order comes in I I just cannot do it. Talk about the lack of sleep. Why do you think that? What what was going on? What was the calculus that you were having?

I mean, So what I really think it was is the Lord humbling me because I had chased money for so long and money was, you know, you cannot serve money in the Lord, right? So you, I think what was really happening was God was turning out evil out of me. To be honest, it was it was like casting out, I guess some form of demon of greed where you know, I chase money, money, money, money, money was my vice. And the Lord is saying, Nope, I'm taking that from you.

You don't get to have and that money you don't get to have that you're going to be obedient to me. He was really testing me. Yeah, just gave you anxiety instead of instead of peace. It wasn't. Yeah, it was. You know, anxiety is such a loose term that's thrown around these days. But yeah, I guess a little anxiety. Nervousness. Yeah, man, I mean, it's really hard to describe. When you wake up in the middle of the night and you feel like you have the Lord screaming at

you, you gotta quit. Like I'm gonna. Take you also have doubt that maybe you would gotten something wrong that you were not understanding what was happening. Oh no, never, never had doubt I was. As soon as that phone call ended, I knew something was wrong. The minute he told you to change the spread. Never doubt. Yeah, I don't know if he ever did. I don't know. I don't think he did. I think.

And this was obviously the this was a catalyst obviously for Isaac and my relationship to deteriorate because I didn't want to like when he'd call, I didn't want to answer, but I had to because I'm technically on the clock. And so. So it kind of deteriorated over time and then I had an out. So this is what happened. So the attorney calls, So I call my attorneys and I say, hey, I, I can't do it, guys. Like I, I just, I cannot do it. I can't keep doing this. I'm not sleeping.

You know, it's just, I've got, as I've gotten as much documentation as I can possibly get for the lawsuit, for the complaint. And it's just going to have to be enough. It's just going to have to be and you know, I have a little regrets about that because I think if I have been a little bit stronger willed that, but at the time, you know, I was the Lord. I I felt the Lord was telling me to do it was an obedience thing. It wasn't you know, everything is going to work out in the end.

We know this and but it was, it was hard because I was really young in my faith and being obedient was difficult. Sometimes it still is. As you get, as you probably are aware, it's sometimes it's hard to, to know when to submit. And anyway, so I, I called them and they said, yeah, we understand. That's absolutely fine. So then, but then what happened is Trump got elected. OK, this is 2016. This is 2016 into 17. In the 17, So Trump had Trump had been elected, so he'd been

in office for about two years. Sales had continued to decline because what happens is Democrats get elected, conservative Christians get concerned about their economic market, they flee to gold. This happens all the time. And then a Republican gets elected and then they liquidate

gold to go to stocks, right? So it's just like this revolving door or they go into other assets or maybe they go into, you know, maybe they start businesses, whatever, whatever they do, but they, they, they flee from gold when Republicans are in because they feel safe in the market. And then they go to gold when Democrats are in. So our sales, so Trump's elected in 2016. We're now mid 2017. So about a year and a half when I find out or when I, when I realized and our sales have been

declining. So Isaac had called me and said, Hey, I'm cutting everyone's base payback. And I was always on 90,000 base pay. Usually he'd bonus me 50 sixty 70,000. I think 60 might have been the, the biggest bonus that they've gotten at the end of the year. So he want, he wanted everyone on low base paint and then he would bonus at the end of the year. Dude, $90,000. I live in Spokane, WA, man. My mortgage is 1400 bucks. Like we have no other debt. Like that's, that's a very

comfortable living. And so, so he had called me and he said, Hey, I'm cutting, I want to cut everyone back and I want to cut you from your 90 to your 60. And I'm like, this is my out. This is how I get out. I just say, so I say no, I'm not going to do the same job for more money because I didn't want him to know what I was doing. I didn't want him to know that I'm collecting all this evidence that obviously filing a whistle complaint and all that stuff.

Well, I said now I'm not going to do the same job for more money. Sorry, dude, for less money. Sorry dude, I'm good. You can find someone else. So in, in that he did and he knew like he had an idea that it was because of other reasons. I'm sure he had to have known. I was very cold toward him, wasn't really talking to him, would try and do everything I could not to, to sign him to, not to talk to him. So then I end up obviously leaving. We filed the whistleblower

complaint. So then we filed the whistleblower complaint with the CFTC in 20 late like December 2018. And my guys go, hey, these things take like three to five years. So buckle up and get ready to do nothing. And to me, I'm like, well, that's not good, not enough. I'm not, I'm not going to, I'm not going to sit here while people are being defrauded every single day and do nothing. But then within four business days we get a call from the

CFTC. We want to talk to him and my attorneys like holy cow, dude, we've never had to turn around this fast. So we talked to the CTC and they're asking a bunch of questions and Nana, not a word. And then in 2019, later 2019, we I get an e-mail from my attorney. Hey man, the CTC reached out to us and said they're gonna close your complaint. They don't have jurisdiction. And I'm like, well, then I mean, you guys did all this work. I mean, they did. They didn't just take my case on my word.

These guys did two months of research with their team to determine whether or not I was full of crap. So my attorneys had done all this research. I've obviously got all the documentation. And now the CFC is saying you don't have jurisdiction. And it's like, but hold on, you guys are the attorneys, you, you believe that this is their jurisdiction. So what's the deal? Because and he's just like, well, listen, there's not nothing we can do. We can't force them to do something.

So then you Fast forward. So I was, so then I reached out to the California attorney general's office and I sent him my whistleblower complaint along with a bunch of documentation. They actually were responsive. So I'm get I'm talking to people and so on. And then COVID hits, everything shuts down. No, no one couldn't get in contact with anyone at the California attorney general's office. Nothing. I couldn't get in contact with anyone.

And so that was just died. I mean the communication just ceased. So and I couldn't get, I mean, I was, I sent them like 15 gigs of data. I was a huge amount of data. Then I sent them just with evidence trades and so on and so on. And then I started to write my book that I'm hoping to finish this this this summer. But I started writing my book because I'm like, how do I get these people don't respond to

me? Like the the influencers don't respond to me. They they won't Even so either I'm being gay kept or they're just being willfully ignorant. And then I'm like, how do I do this? I'm just like, I'm just going to write a book. Like I don't know. I don't know what else to do right. Who had you? Reached out to at that time. I'd reached out to so we'd who? So Sean Hannity, Bill, what's his name? I forget his name. He's been at Fox forever.

And then he he Bill O'Reilly. I've reached out to Jordan Peterson, Hodge twins, Charlie Kirk. I actually just went last week that there Charlie Kirk had an event at Washington State University. I went last week with my full whistleblower complaint redacted in an envelope and handed it to his staff and said make sure Charlie gets this. I've reached out to Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh, name him dude. I almost every single one of them Brandon Tatum.

I saw Brandon Tatum at a turning point USA faith event and I told him to his face, I will provide you all the evidence that you need Every. I've reached out to a moment and the so they close my my case, start reaching out to all these people and, and, and look, this didn't all happen at one time. So I want to be clear. Like I didn't reach out to every

single one in 2020, right? Like Charlie Kirk, I just, this was the first time I'd actually reached out to him because I realized he was selling when I was watching it. I'd never seen it actually. And I saw on one of his videos like last week. And I'm like, OK, so then I will. I'm giving. Yeah. When I tell you that the question is do you have a gold sponsor, the assumption is you will have a gold sponsor. Yeah, well, not me. No, not thankfully, not you. So I'm, I'm glad we're having

this conversation. Yeah, never. And it and it won't work. The only people that I would do and and I I talked to Andy Scheckman at Miles. He said you could, you could, we'd Rep you, you know, if you wanted to sell bullion. We, we keep our customers for life. We'll pay you for life for bringing us a customer. The split is not very big.

It's not a ton of money. But if people want to go and do it, you know, we're, we're happy to have people that want to come in because our goal is to protect assets. And so we make a small amount of profit on it because we provide a service and that's it. And you know, if you sell $12 billion worth of gold, he's told me he's never had a customer complain. I believe him actually. He does the same thing that you're doing in the background. It sounds like you're doing penance.

Is that what you got going on? In a way I mean, I don't. Be not explicitly. I will not. Let's sit this way. I will not stop until this industry dies. I don't care if that's 10 years from now, 20 years from now, 30. I do not care. I will not stop. I'm currently talking to my congressman and I'm helping him draft policy so that we can get a bill on the House floor. I'm talking to anyone that

reaches out. If someone DMS me and says, hey, have me on, I'm going on. I don't care if you have 1000 subscribers. I don't care if you have 10. I will come on and I will talk to you about this issue because the more people like the one, the one the biggest thing that OK, so during that time, so I'm going to backtrack. So 2020-2021 I start reaching out to folks and then Puffy Zilla makes it big and I end up trying to reach out to him. Couldn't get a hold of Coffeeziller.

But in doing that, someone messages me and they say, hey, you should talk to this guy Scott Shaffer. He'll he'll talk about this coffee's just wrapped up in crypto. He ain't going to deal with this, talk to Scott Shaffer. So then I go to so I send Scott Shaffer and even never heard of him before. See that he has a decent following on on YouTube. So I'm like, I sent him an e-mail, didn't hear anything for

a minute. And then he and then I get an e-mail like, hey, I'd love to talk to you about the issue. So I go on, and I did essentially the same thing that I did to Jeremy with Jeremy Miller at the Washington Post when I was the major source for his article. This article, actually right here is the article in the Washington Post. And I said I'm going to tell you everything you need to know. You can believe me not believe me, I don't care. But you go vet me.

You go vet what I'm telling you and everything that I say to you will be true. So Scott goes and it was a couple of months, he did his due diligence. He says, OK, let's talk, let's get on. Just do an interview. So that interview I was super casual. I had like a baseball hat on and stuff. But I went on there and and that thing actually has done more credit to Scott Shafer. That video has done more for this effort and my effort to get the word out than anything else I've done.

Anything else I've done so. So let's backtrack to the CFTC, because this is what really frustrates me. What does that? Stand for It's consumer finance. What protection? The Commodities Futures Trading Commission, so they're federal, the federal, yeah, regulatory body for commodities and futures. So they say we don't have, we don't have jurisdiction. Let's, we're going to close your, your case. And we're like, well, so we asked them who does? They're like, we don't know, right?

So it's like, OK, great. So my attorney fires me. He's like, like, I can't do anything for you. So I just take the TCR, we the, the, the complaint with the CFTC that we filed and I send it to the SEC, the FTCI send it to everyone in their mom. I'm not kidding. Every federal agency you can imagine with three letters, 4 letters. I send it to him and I get nothing. And then in 2023 had rock secured Jade Johnson Kelly, the the VP of Augusta that left Merritt and showed up at Isaac Staum.

He had left Augusta I think around 2019-2020, stole all of Augusta's leads and the irony there and then went to start Red Rock secured. Red Rock secured are sued in 2023 by none other than the CFTC in a joint lawsuit with the SEC. So I'm going hold the phone here guys. I thought you didn't have jurisdiction. How how are you filing this joint lawsuit if you don't have

jurisdiction right. So I so the reason I knew about this lawsuit is because Jeremy Miller and I have stayed in contact since we've worked on that Washington Post article article and he still to this day sends me information so he sends me this lawsuit. He says, hi, have you seen this? And he knows obviously the connection with shade in, in, in Augusta. So I, I read the lawsuit and I'm

like, are you kidding me? Identical, identical business platform, identical sales strategy, identical spreads. The whole thing is the exact identical case to what we submitted to the CFTC. So I reach out to my attorneys. I'm like, hey guys, does CFTC just look at the case similarities? Like I have the same attorney like Sean, my attorney like Sean, this is the same exact lawsuit that we want them to file against Augusta. What on earth is going on, Sean? He's like, I have no idea.

So then we decide that we're going to file, resubmit the complaint with the CTC and then also file a subsequent complaint with the SEC, OK, because there was a joint lawsuit. So we get a, a quick response. They get back to us and, and we start having a conversation again. And, and I'm pissed. I'm like, there's no excuse.

So then I find out the reason why Shade was sued so quickly is because someone that works for the federal government that probably handles mutual funds or something invested a bunch of money couple $1,000,000 in these assets that that K that portfolio was probably audited or something like I'm kind of hypothesizing a little bit here, but it was audited. And then people go, where's the money? And then they figure out that Red Rocket took them for a ride.

And because they have connections in the federal government, Shea gets sued. Isn't that something? Isn't that something? And I'm so I'm like, hold on. So we filed these complaints and then and the the day that they filed the actual lawsuit, so we knew they were working on this red rock thing. I was at an Ace Hardware. I was doing some yard work. I was at an Ace Hardware and I get a message and Jeremy Miller sends me this this press release $68 million lawsuit against Red Rock secured.

So I'm super happy, but I'm also really pissed and I'm like this makes no sense. So remember I now I have legal representation because we knew this SEC were working this case against shade before it had ever been filed. So we knew about that and I, I basically, I, I'm in the Ace Hardware and I'm fuming. I'm happy, I'm fuming at the same time. So I send the SEC and the CFTC an e-mail and I say guys, super happy. You guys indicted Shade. I could tell you everything

about him. He was not my wedding. I can telling you right now the same exact thing that Shade is doing, Isaac is also doing. So I want you guys to tell me how is it that you have had my complaint since 2018, since before Shade even started his business in August, are still operating. Please explain this to me. Thank you. And then I got a call from my attorney and he's pissed off. You can't contact them. You're under legal representation.

And I said I don't give a shit. I'm sick and tired of waiting. We cannot wait because every time that we wait, I don't care about the whistleblower money. So just Full disclosure, I'm entitled to 10 to 30% of any claim, any, any money that is actually derived from my complaint that I've helped them with. Don't give a shit. Keep the money I don't care. I care about saving people from being defrauded in their retirement funds.

Don't care about the money. Obviously my attorneys want to get paid, but that's the them problem. I'm sorry. Every time I send them information and say, get this to the safety. Why should we? Why should we? Oh, I don't know. Maybe this will help spur them into doing something. I don't know. So I don't know that I'll be eligible anyway because I'm talking about a complaint that I filed that they have yet to take action on. I don't care, Kyle.

I'm I'm at the point where seven years of my life has been spent trying to get people to listen. I talked to my prior congresswoman, and now I'm talking to my freshman congressman. I've talked to Congressman David Kustov out of Tennessee because I was referred to his committee in in the in the last Congress that went nowhere. Ted Cruz has a show, Don Junior has a show. Everyone has a show that is all sponsored by gold advertisers.

And all I'm trying to say is, guys, you have a fiduciary responsibility to vet your advertisers so that they don't harm your, your audiences. Now, I'm not saying they all are doing it. What I'm saying is you should vet that though. You should vet that though the icon and I all I'm trying to do is say to you, whoever it is, Ted Cruz, hey Ted, please vet your gold sponsor. Hey, Charlie Kirk, vet your gold sponsor.

OK, so now the counter argument to this is going to be well, Dale, there's no negative reviews online. Well, let's talk about the negative reviews. Why does Augusta have no negative reviews? Why do Red Rocks secure or not? Why do any of these other companies metals.com suit into the ground? Why do they not have bad reviews online? Kyle, great question. You're such a good interviewer.

Great question. So the reason reason why is because if you go online and you put a negative review, they do everything they can to get you to remove that. So for example, we had a guy who realized what had happened. His wife had his, his wife had invested, he didn't know anything about it. His wife had invested her retirement funds. He he like finds out like 6-8 months later that she's investing all this money. He starts researching it and goes, where's your money?

You don't, you don't have any money left. Your portfolio is worth like 50% of what it should be based on what you'd paid for assets. And the market hasn't moved. So he gets on to this thing. So the only way you get your money back is you go online, you leave a bad review, then they go, we don't want bad reviews because we don't want anyone knowing. So they say, hey, we'll give you all of your money back on these conditions.

You remove your review, you're going to sign this confidentiality agreement that says you will never disparage our company publicly ever. And if you break this confidential, we'll sue you. So I'm faced I'm a customer, I've invested, I figured out holy cow, I've been taken for a ride. OK, I've invested and and I have an opportunity now to get my money back, my life savings. This isn't just my money. This isn't me buying a, a, a car

at a car dealership. This is my life savings that I've worked 30 plus years, right? I have an opportunity to get my money, my entire money refunded to me if I sign this document that says I will not go online or talk disparagingly in public about these companies. I don't blame not a single soul who has signed that document. But I tell you what, Kyle, you know who I do blame?

I blame ABC for counting a story when we worked to get victims of Augusta to go on camera and ABC flew me to Florida and Kira Phillips interviews me. We spend a whole day doing the B roll, the interview, the whole 9 yards. They they spend all this money, time and effort. She goes, she goes into these people's houses. My attorney, Angie Mireshi. Angie Mireshi is a news anchor and I think it's Pennsylvania now.

She used to work at my law firm. She's the one that did all the vetting of me. OK, OK. She, Angie Mireshi, called certain clients that I had isolated and said you should call these people and convinces them to break their confidentiality agreement and to

go on camera with ABC and ABC. Can the story after going into those people's homes when they are scared to death of being sued, when they are scared to death of the ramifications, go into their homes and interview these folks after building that trust. And they crap all over that trust. They crap all over those people and they don't just crap on them. They crap on the victims that come thereafter because they have the power to get this out and they kind of the story.

Isn't it something that somehow Kyra Phillips, who told me she didn't want the White House beat at ABC, She didn't want it because her husband works at Fox and he had the White House beat. This is for 2017. So this is 20/19. She didn't want the White House beat. She went to ABC because she wanted to do investigative reporting. She wanted to do this story. Suddenly we do all this thing, do all the shooting, the producer, I forget her name, she gets she gets promoted.

And then Kyra Phillips gets promoted to the White House beat. This is within six months of me, of us filming. So I emailed someone called Cindy Galley. Cindy Galley is an executive producer on ABC News. And I told her that she was, that what they did was immoral, that it was disgusting that they had, we had built the trust of those folks. And you guys absolutely crapped on it.

You guys are not journalists. You guys are so worried about Donald Trump that when I present you something that could tangibly save people's lives, save people's lives, that you guys aren't willing to do anything about it. And now when I say save people's lives, Kyle, I'll tell you this. There was a guy who told someone that when he realized he'd lost his life savings, he grabbed his pistol.

He sat on the edge of his bed and he put his pistol in his mouth and he said if his dog had not jumped on the bed he would have pulled the trigger. I'm certain that people have killed themselves, 100% absolutely certain. And so when I found that out in 2023, because so I get, so I, I mean, 2021, I'm working my, I mean, I'm everything shut down still, you know, everything's just getting back up and going.

But I'd spent months and months and months during my 2020 and 2021 period working on the drafting the outline of the book. And they're doing all these other things trying to get people to listen and so on. And dude, I just got to a point where I got so burnt out. I just said to the Lord, I said, I'm done. And, and I said, I'm done. I've given this fight at this point, it was like 5 years of my life. I've given this five years of my life or maybe 4 years of my

life. I've put in part time hours almost every week of my life trying to get people to listen. And I was just like, Lord, I'm done. I said, I tell you what, this is the promise I'm going to make to you. You put people in my path that will make this happen. And I will give 110% effort, 110% effort. And I will do everything in my power, whether that's spending money, whether that's doing things like this, whether that's helping Jeremy Miller, whether

that's helping the CFTC. By the way, I told them I would testify in the in the Red Rock secured case. I told them I'll put my hand in a Bible and I'll swear to exactly what the the degenerate things that they do. It is an R and don't hear back from them. And I, I just gave the promise to Lord, I said, I'll I'll do it when you put it in my place. But I like it was just overwhelming. And it was, it was roadblock

after roadblock after roadblock. And then when I heard that story, man, I broke down crying because I'm like, that guy would have killed himself. And I am what? Because because I was fed up, because I was sick and tired of being told no or being ignored that my feelings trump that guy's entire life. And that that two year period where I did a lot less work. I didn't wouldn't say I did

nothing. But in that, you know, I was with two years, about 18 months when I heard that story, the overwhelming amount of guilt that I felt was just like astronomical because that guy, if that guy that killed himself, I would have been part to blame because I didn't do everything that I could have done. And that's the same for the people at the SEC and that's the same for the people at the CFTC. And that's the same for the congressman that I've spoke to

your legislative aides. Every single day that you don't do something, blood is on your hands. Because people, there are absolutely people like that gentleman who did sit on the bed and who did blow their brains out because you guys wouldn't act. There's no question in my mind. There's there's zero question in my mind because fight being financially devastated, people can't afford to live on. They don't know what they're going to do. People make rash decisions in

short moments. They make a permanent decision to a temporary problem, but it's kind of a big problem when you can't go back to work and you don't have any money and all the money that you've been putting away is gone. It is, it is, it's stunning. So here's here's how I know what you're saying is true. Here's what I know about that,

that negative review situation. I've talked to people that have gone back and gotten their money back in exactly the same way you said it, and everything you said is exactly correct. They go forward and they talk to the other Better Business Bureau. They go forward and talk to the attorney general in their state. They go forward and talk to various commissions and so on. They bring government into it. And that scrutiny is not something that these companies

will withstand. And it doesn't matter the company, it's not just Augusta, clearly not. They all do the same thing. They all go and scrub it. They will make you happy. And I didn't know about the NDA, but of course that makes perfect sense. I assume that's what they would do. The confidentiality, the non disclosure, that has to be part of the gig. Somebody is going to have to eat it. And isn't that a shame?

Isn't it even more interesting that ABC knew and could have could have brought this to a bigger audience? Here's what I wonder, because I actually do wonder this how much of ABC story was tanked because those people are filthy Trump supporters and they didn't like them? I, I don't know, man. I don't know what their motivation was. And I. I don't either, but I'm just. Saying timing is just so.

It was just so ludicrous, man. It was like, oh, here is now on the the White House beat, The White House beat she didn't want. OK, here's the here's the other part of that on the back end, because I've spoken to people who worked for Fox, who worked for Daily Caller, who worked for some of the bigger news organizations, at least on the conservative side. And the and the game is this. When you get a story like that, that's your golden ticket.

When you have a story that exposes something very big, you now have something to bargain with. And those people all have one of two choices. They can go forward and run the story, maybe not on that outlet, but somewhere because somebody will run the story or you cash it in and your silence is your promotion and you find yourself doubling your salary, tons more responsibility, the big break. They put you into a place where you go. I know that that story's happened.

I've talked to people who've had that decision. Well, this is like the same thing that CNN did with the Prince Andrew story, whether there was a hot mic incident. I don't, I think it was Prince Andrew where she had the story about Prince Andrew for like years. And she had tried to get CNN to do it and he wouldn't do anything with it. And then it would throw. And she was pissed because she's like, I've been trying to get you guys to break this for years and we missed it because you

guys what? Like what's the deal? That's the reason. So somebody. Came to somebody and asked him to be quiet. I don't doubt that that's true. And again, people have asked me, do you fear for your safety? Maybe a little bit, but it doesn't matter because my safety doesn't trump the billions of dollars that people are losing. Because at the end of the day, if if that was my mom and my grandma and there was a Dale in that industry that wasn't willing to speak out.

And now let me tell you, there are other people in the industry that are coming forward. They're behind the scenes, but they're coming forward and they're also blowing the whistle. So I know this for a fact. I've spoken to a few of them in the last couple of years and the which is great. Now a lot of them are in fear and and rightly so, the people who have a lot to lose are the salesman and a lot of these guys are unhinged. A lot of them are truly unhinged.

Like you're stepping between, you're talking about people who if they weren't selling gold and making quarter million, half a million, $1,000,000 a year, a year, excuse me, selling golds, these these guys would be working at McDonald's. That's no slide on McDonald's. But my point is they have no skill set, right? Like they have no skill set.

And so you're stepping me. I'm stepping between not just the people out Augusta, I'm stepping on an entire industry a, a, a behemoth of an industry where I know what's at stake. I understand that. And I'm this is the chance. This is I am willing to take that chance because this isn't about me. What's the best thing that you can do is to give your life for your friend, for your neighbor.

It's the best thing you can do. And if this was happening to me or my mom or my grandma, and there was someone like me in the industry that had this information, one wasn't willing to step forward. If that led to my mom taking her own life, my grandma taking her own life or them losing their life savings, I would be so pissed at that person for not. And, and so I don't have a choice. I don't have a choice to sit and wait for the CFTCI was actually

just looking. Our complaint was filed in like mid 2023. It's been 2 year, almost two years now. So I guess any day now, any day now, Kyle, we'll get a call from the CFTC and they'll finally do something. I don't care about the money. I don't want the whistleblower money. I don't care about that. What I care about is the folks who are out there who are being actively harmed. And we didn't even touch 90%. We didn't. What's funny? How long have we been talking

now? About an hour and a half. Yeah, a little more. We we haven't even touched the inner workings of the company. We haven't even touched what some of the things that the the guys say to the customers on the phone. We haven't touched on the truly the true exclusivity, the fact that I reach out to the mints, the mints are still selling the coins. There's several ways we can do this.

So I think the, the big thing is for the, for the solution lies in, in my opinion, and I'm still vetting this out. I'm not an attorney, so it's kind of difficult for me. But the true solution in my opinion lies in, in the IRC, we got to fix the standard of which people can invest in, in the types of coins that they can invest in, in their IRA. And that's just the, I think that's the only way you end the

industry. You have to do it in one fell swoop because it's like a Medusa you cut one head off to, to grow back. And this happens every single time in a one of these companies goes out of the business, as we've discussed. And so that the, the, the solution lies in the, in, in, in Congress, lies in the legislature. And so I want to know which

congressmen are out there. And I'm hoping that my Michael Baumgartner, my, my congressman, I'm in contact right now with his office trying to help him draft policy on this issue. I want to know what other congressmen are out there that are going to be willing to step forward and Co sponsor a bill and to get a bill on the House floor to stop this from happening. And, and if not, why not? Because these are your constituents that they're

targeting. If you're a Republican and you're, you're claimed to be a conservative, they're targeting conservative Christians. These are your constituents. This is your underlying base. This is the base of the Republican Party. These are the blue collar workers of the, of the, the, the Republican Party that are being harmed day in and down. So I want to know where the Republican folks are at, where the Republican legislators are at that can help fix this problem.

My, my phone number is very easy to find. If someone wants to find my phone number, very easy to find, you can contact me on my website. You there's so many ways you can get in contact with me. I'm an open book. There's I have nothing to hide. Yeah. And. Just while you're plugging it to dalewhitaker.com, we'll get people there. They can find all your socials, they can find all your connections there. So we'll say that and I'll put it in the link.

Yeah. So for me, it's just a case of how do we end it because the harm, we know the harm that's being done. And hopefully and I know this is going to be helpful and then people that haven't heard about this are going to be happening. I get emails consistently. I get emails like I said, I had a few last year that I helped when with in the Scott Schaefer video somehow is making its rounds again so I'm getting more emails now. Yeah. When was that?

When was that taped? I think we did that in 20. It was in 2013. It was. So the the way that came about was Jeremy Miller. Not 20/13/2023, sorry. OK. Jeremy Miller reached out to me. Do we? How much time do we have? I know you usually cut these off. I don't actually. We'll just go as long as you feel like talking. In fact, if you want to take a quick break and, you know, fill your cup up, we can do that. We can keep going.

Thanks for sticking with us. We're taking a quick break to say thanks to our folks over at My Patriot Supply. They are one of our marquee sponsors. Prepare like kyle.com is the website again, it's prepare like kyle.com. It's going to take you to a landing page and the first option you see is the three month emergency food kit, over 2000 calories a day, a price that is discounted by $200 right now. This is the same exact kit that we have.

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You want to buy it when you are not under the gun because I can assure you this in a time of emergency, in a time of crisis, those prices go crazy. You guys know what it looks like. We all got to live through COVID and see what this looks like. If you've never been in a local disaster, it's about the same, except that happens just around you and everything is sold out and everything.

It's really crazy. So check out, prepare like kyle.com, make sure you guys are preparing for your futures, whatever that looks like. Again, that's the first option, but there are many options. You can start as low as $25, getting yourself started with some emergency food and the big pack is on sale right now. We're going to get right back into the conversation, so let's do it. All right, Thanks for sticking with us, folks. We're going to continue on with Dale Whitaker.

We're going to continue talking about this, this industry, which has probably an infinite depth of, of evil doings and so on. Where do you want to go next? I'm gonna, I'm gonna leave it up to you. Where do you want to? Go so I, I had talked a little bit about how I, how I had, you know, given to the Lord and I just basically said like, Hey, you put people in my path and I'll, I'll make it happen. So this is about an 18 month period where I really, like I

said, I didn't do a whole lot. I had gotten the outline from my book didn't really I'd worked on it on and off and and not really committed. I was just deflated. And so it's the same 18 month period and I get a call from my attorney and this is before we he had re retaken my case. So he had, you know, obviously we had not talking for a few talk spoken for a few years. And I get a call, Hey, I have this journalist from the Washington Post that wants to

talk to you. Is it OK to forward your contact info? And I'm like, sure, that's fine. So I get a call from a guy named Jeremy, Jeremy Midler, Jeremy Miller. And Jeremy says, hey, this is who I am from The Washington Post. How much money did you lose? And I said, I don't know what you're talking about. Didn't lose any money and he goes, oh, so then what's your complaint about? I said I was the CFO of a company and he just goes tell me everything. So right, so then this starts

just great guy, great guy. I, I'm sure I'm he and I never talk politics. I'm sure we're on the opposite ends of the spectrum, but great guy. You know what the guy, no one has worked harder than him. Maybe is he and I are maybe on par, but no one's worked harder than him. He's had article after article at different outlets that he's been at and then so he, he contacts me, we, we start chatting. So I'm like I said, you know what, Jeremy?

I said I will tell you everything because I made a promise of the Lord that I will give it 110%. But I have and he'll tell you this is true. I have no faith that you will ever get this published.

No faith and in fact, I just messaged him a couple weeks ago and, and I was just having, I was just thinking about it and I, I messaged him and I said, Hey, man, I want to tell you, there's a lot of people out there that don't know how much you've done And, and I'm thankful for everything you've done because I really didn't have any faith, Kyle. I mean, I, I had worked so hard and, and, but I had made a promise to the Lord. So I told him, I will help you.

I'll give you anything that you need, anything that you need. So he and I spent this, it was a couple of months journey and it went on, it felt like forever for me because I have no faith. I, I don't have faith that he's going to get this published. So I'm this is going on and on and on and we're, we're talking and, and going through every angle.

So he had actually quite a lot of the stuff like a lot of folks do they, a lot of this information is out there, but the, the inner workings is what is the big piece of the puzzle that's missing? How do they, how do they crank up the, the price of the coin? Like how does that happen? It's if it's a bullion coin, how do they have these premiums? Well, that's because they control the supply and the demand. So they create an artificial market, right? So these are the things that

we're missing. He the exclusivity that those kinds of things because you see these sell the coin, but you don't know that it's exclusive to them, right? Like, and you don't understand that the mints have an have entered into an exclusivity agreement. And so Jeremy calls me and we we have this conversation and then we, like I said, we still keep in contact. And really that was the catalyst that once he had published that article, that was my catalyst for like, OK, OK, now we're

getting somewhere, right? Because. And then because part of it is credibility, right? You know, no one listens to you. You have to build that credibility. And so now I have this article in the Washington Post that was actually in their print paper. It wasn't just online. It was in their print paper that I can point to and say, hey, we had a front page column in the Washington Post that pointed to a spread in the middle.

You know, here's the article. I was a large source in this party and actually my pictures in it, you know, that kind of thing. So that helped build

credibility. And then that's when I reached out to coffee Ziller. Then I reached out to Scott Schaeffer and having that article, you know, shout out to Jeremy Miller, Man, I, I, I really believe that having that article and being able to, to build that credibility off of that article helped a lot in my ability to get in front of people like Scott Schaeffer and, and, and you and whoever else. I've never actually spoken to the gentleman that you you

referenced. Yeah, and I wanted to, I just wanted to touch on it just very briefly. You know, Andy is one of the names in the gold industry, the credible gold industry. I mean, like I said, he said, he told me the other day, $12 billion in total sales. They've been open since 1989. They've been doing it a long time. He's a real serious guy. He's a really lovely person. He's just like a loving and articulate and and and giving human being. My cousin is a money guy, lives in California.

And you know when I said I had Andy on, he was like, that's one of the guys, like that's one of the gets and he sent me yours. Scott Schaefer. Is that what it is? Scott Schaefer. That's Scott Schaefer, yeah. He sent me that and he said you have to see this. That was only that was this week that just happened. So that interview was two years old at this point, or year and a half old, right? Yeah, about 18 months, yeah, so. It's making a run through people at CEO, president, founder level

of serious gold companies. You know, Andy's friends with all the big gold people, as far as I can tell. You know, the, the, I don't want to name them actually, because, but, but people that if you, if you buy gold, if you read about gold, if you've heard about people that are involved in gold as a business that go give speeches that are part of these big conventions when it comes to talking about precious metals and commodities. You know, that that's making its

rounds. I guarantee all these guys have back, you know, you know, they, they share things articles. This is interesting white paper whistleblower complaint. And so you're, you're going to get another run at this. I know this right now that you're going to get another run at this with other, with other venues, because the people that move in that industry have looked around and said, you know, that's a fringe part of the industry.

I think, I think gold IRA in general is a fringe part of it in this exclusive premium nonsense. It's not the vast majority of people, but it is a a very subset of retail clients who are getting fleeced at the least, at the the least ability to cry out about it if the least, you know, like size platform, they're probably the least sophisticated

at social media. So when these people get screwed, they're far more likely to sit down on the edge of the bed with a pistol in their hand than they are to reach out and figure out, hey, I'm going to go stand in front of my congressman's door, because they may not even be able to afford to do that anymore. Well, right. And, and that's it. So what what I do know.

So here's what I do know. Like I said, I have a few people throughout this segment of the industry that are consistently in, in communication with me. And I know that when that video first went out within the first few months, I get a, a source that reached out to me and said, I won't name the firm, but one of the bigger firms had circulated within their, their staff and within their upper management at the executive level and had their legal department look into it to make

sure that they were airtight. So they're a little trepid. What I, I guess my message for them is like, I'm not going to stop. I'm not going to stop. Oh, you might as well pack it in because whether it again five years tenure doesn't matter. I'm going to keep knocking on that door. I'm going to keep pressuring my congressman. I'm going to keep doing things like this and I'm going to do whatever I can when my book drops, that's going to be it's completely self funded.

Well, I have AI have a, an investor in a company with me who believes in this as well. And he's going to pay basically the marketing dollars because I'm not a well, we're not wealthy people. So he's going to put some marketing dollars behind it for me. But it's going to be completely self published and it just outlines this whole issue. And one of the things in that is I don't want people to have to buy a book that to understand this issue because it's not about money.

So there's going to be 1 chapter in my book that will be free for every single person that if they just want to get to the meat of it, if they just want to get to the problem and understand the problem, that will be free, completely free. The other side of the book is going to go into more details about how the inner workings work, you know, the atmosphere,

that kind of thing. And so again, so like, if you have a, you know, you have an Amazon Kindle, you know how they give you the free chapter, the free chapter is going to be the meat and bones. It's going to be if you read a chapter, this is a chapter you read. And, and because again, you know, it's not about money the way I don't care about the whistle blower complaint. It's not about that. It's about saving other people's

money. It's about saving them from the heartache of losing their retirement and and so on. And it's funny. So interestingly, I it's tracking. Is that his name? I apologize. I so I got an e-mail a few days ago, he went on someone else's podcast and they had talked about this issue. And then I think they must have referenced, I haven't looked at the video myself. I guess they must have referenced the Scott Schaefer

video. So I got an e-mail from someone saying I listened to this pod podcast with Scheckman and A and a lady. I don't remember her name. And they said, and through that they had found the Shaffer videos. They must have referenced it or something. And I'm now in the midst of trying to help her. And they, I guess she had told me actually that he had done in an analysis as well and said, yeah. And he does that on the on the background for people. He doesn't advertise it, but he

quietly does the same thing. If people come to them and say hey, I've been screwed out of my life savings, He helps people. He's told me a. Lot of and he shared with me some of those the portfolios of people he's worked with so. I'm glad, I'm glad for, for people like him because it's, it's really going to take a, an overhaul of the industry.

You know, I really I really hope that the the big the big guys, the big the big wholesalers, the app mixes of the world will help lobby at some point in Congress and put an end to it. Because here's the thing this is the way I look at it because I'm a businessman, right? So here's the way I look at it is so we have this segment of this industry, you have this at large industry and you have a segment of this industry and the segment of the industry is gone rogue.

They're doing this thing and really actually what's happening is they are hurting people like Segment and like UPMEX because those are lost sales that these guys could have had if they weren't being, if these customers over here weren't being fleeced by these other companies.

So really what's happening is it's diluting the share of at large dollars even though you're only making 3 to 5% and you're being legitimate, it's actually diluting your market because those are dollars now that you will never see come through your door. So it is in the gold industry's best interest to make sure that these guys stop doing what they're doing. It's actually bigger than that too. Let me let me speculate this.

Imagine that one of our relatives get scammed out of some sort of a gold premium coin. How are we going to tell people about putting money into gold? Is it going to be something we say, oh, that's a good idea or these companies are shady? And so you're going to see people. Go, you know what, I'm going to

go to other options. I'm going to, I'm going to go to Treasuries or I'm going to go to, you know, something else, Art. You're going to find another way to be able to try to hold on to your wealth. You're going to buy other assets because you're going to think that gold companies are shady and you may just only have anecdotal experience of it. I guarantee you it's bigger than just the number of people they've scammed.

It's more than just that 3 to 5% of people or the three to 5% that they lost in the sale of that one person who got fleeced. It's worth. That's true because your sphere of influence will be will be now impacted by the same the same story. That's right. And most people are not going to sit at just like the NPR person accurately told you, most people don't of the attention span to find out what the problem was. They'll just know gold problem, bad investment, people got scammed.

They're not going to look any deeper into that. You know, is gold a great way to you know, and that's not The funny thing. I always see people that you own gold, you're not buying it because you want to, you know, increase something That's and that seems to be the sales tactic. I want actually want to get into the the tactics on there. Because I remember, I remember someone telling me it's like, oh, yeah, that's how you grow your wealth. It's like, no, that's how you

preserve things. It's just it's it's metal. It doesn't grow anything. That's why it's called gold. That's why, that's why we like it, because as good as gold means, it just stays there. Yeah, and, and it's interesting because there's a, there's a so the reason why people, I, I think the reason. So there's a whole psychology behind it, right? Like with any sales. So why conservatives? So you got to ask yourself, why conservative Christians? Why?

Let's leave this conservative Why Christians? All Christians believe in gold is a store of value inherently because it's the biblical coinage of the day, right? So they were always trading in gold and silver and everything was that way. So and, and it's an earth metal. It is, is a metal given to us by God. So it is the currency that you kind of looked to as a store of value, especially when you have Fiat currency. So they use, but they use that against us because so.

OK, so I got a call one day. This is so super interesting. So I got a call one day and it was from a client and they sweet old lady she was at least she was in her 80s at least. She calls and she says how much sweet just sold her like $250,000 or something in in gold and silver she was. How much does this weigh? Because I need to get if, if things go to, to, to hell, because that's what a lot of these folks are. It's like, hey, I need something

to barter and trade with. Things go to hell. I need to get this from my house to my car. So I'm picturing in my mind this frail old, like 80 year old lady trying, trying to carry a, you know, 100 LB box of gold and silver to her, to her car. And I'm thinking to myself, that is the last of your worries. Because some young buck like me

that has no morals. Well, I, I have morals now, but some young buck that has no morals that say is going to come and they're just going to take it from you at gunpoint. So to use it as a hedge for an apocalyptic scene just doesn't make sense. And it also doesn't jive with anything in the Bible. But the reality is you're not going to have that gold because someone's going to take it from

you. So if that's your, if that's your reason for investing in it, don't invest in it because there are better things to invest in. Go invest in guns, food and food and bullets right You're. Speaking my language, that's what I always tell Andy. I've got I've got a lot of ammo and I've got months of food. And then if you, and then if you want to go buy gold after that, just make sure you have those first to defend your gold, right? So, so that's the first thing that came to mind.

And, and I obviously didn't have the heart to tell her. I didn't want to say that to her. So, you know, I answered your question. But then the, the other side to it is this whole barter and trade thing. It's like there this I, I wish that my fellow Christians would understand that there's going to be no bartering in trading there. There is if when the apocalypse comes, there is going to be a war on earth between the believers and the non believers and that's it. It is going to be a war.

You're going to take the marker. You're not. So you're going to be fighting for God on earth and you're going to have nothing. You're going to have you're it'll be like guerrilla tactics. It's going to be, there's actually a really good kind of a cheesy movie about this where it's like, yeah, that's actually probably a decent accurate representation of what will happen. And so having gold won't help you, not one bit. So invest in in in in guns and invest in ammo and food.

Yeah, what was what was the movie? Was it the Stand? No, I forget it was an older movie it. Was a Stephen King movie that did something similar to it that was called The Stand. That was no. It it's this is actually a Christian produced movie. OK, the Left Behind series or something like that. Yeah, it might have been. It might have been left. Behind. I remember when those came out. Sure.

And so, so, but but my point being in the message in this is don't let fear dictate your ability to or your drive to invest in anything I have. To imagine that's one of the sales tactics though, right? It's 100% fear based. It's fear of loss, which is a big sales motivator that people do. If you don't buy it now, you're going to miss out and you missed the bump or whatever. But then it's also like fear of losing everything else you have and it's the only thing you can put it into.

This is the off ramp to to seeing you know your your money maintain any value kind of deal when it goes to right. Right. The biggest, the biggest driver and the biggest marketing thing is the dollar. We are trillions upon trillions upon trillions of debt. The dollar is consistently being devalued. If you want to store your well stored in gold. And if you don't do it now, you'll never do it. And the and the value of the dollar is going to plummet. And so it's all fear. It's all fear.

It's the value of the dollar is going to plummet and you're going to have no money and etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. It's like, OK, but if the value of the dollar plummets and gold value is tied to the value of the dollar, then the value of your gold is also plummeting. So it's kind of like this. It's like this really, and I'm oversimplifying, but it's this really weird tactic to fear monger people into buying gold.

So look, if you want to buy gold, like I just give an example earlier where there's some folks who bought bullying who if they had bought bullying gold has tripled since 2016, which silver is. Yeah, the dollar is worth far less. Far less and and and exactly right. It's my my point so. I mean, The funny thing is this. So there's always a truth in this. You can see the Fiat currency be

devalued. You can see inflation happen and you can see that gold is, you know, if it is the constant of it. There was a there was a thing I heard Peter Schiff say, you ever listen to Peter Schiff? Gold guy, you know, owns a gold company as well. And I think he's in Puerto Rico now. But one of the one of the podcasts, I remember him saying it was probably a Joe Rogan and he said something to the effect

of the price of pants. Like a pair of trousers in gold is basically consistent since before the Middle Ages to right now, the same amount of gold will buy you a pair of trousers in the world. So you can look at like the actual tradable value, the utility of gold kind of holding constant for hundreds, if not even thousands of years. And and and that rings true to me. It's like, yeah, it's like, not that much gold buys you. Something that you can use and that the utility of that

product, sure, OK, fine. But like you said, if you're in your 80s and you think you're going to like carry it out to your suburban and and drive off with it, you know, you could carry off a lot of money in gold in your pockets. That's doable for most people. You're probably not going to be able to do the same thing in silver, not even close. And they really push the silver because it's cheaper for them to

mint. So the cost of if the cost of minting and selling the gold is a lot higher than the silver. So it makes more sense and then they can do and they can do quarter rounds they can do and they can do an ounce and a quarter of. Silver they can do, they can do incremental changes and they can do more coinage or they can do less and give you more dollars in. Correct. And the price of the price of, of coin of, of minting a gold coin in like a 110th oz

denomination our costs. So when I was negotiating, so we actually, I negotiated the first contract for our gold coin at Augusta with, with Dylan Gage to engage with a wholesaler on this. And we did this because we wanted to Isaac wanted to let Eugene Fogle at Bayside know you're not the only player in town. We worked really hard with Dylan Gage, a wholesaler to have them go to the Royal Canadian Mint and have them mint a coin for us that we so they would distribute to us or for us.

They drop ship for us. You never get direct access to the mints. There's like a whole, there's a whole process, you have to have certain assets and so on to become a a distributor for Mints, OK, So that just doesn't happen and it's very hard to do. There's a very strict process for it. So you, we had to go through one of the distributors. So Eugene was the only game in town. And Isaac was like, hey, we got to let Eugene know that he's not the only game in town.

We're going to shop him and make sure we get the best deal for our cost. Which really, in the grand scheme of things, when we're marking stuff up, a hundred, a hundred and 5200% doesn't even matter. I mean, it's it's like so inconsequential at that point. But Isaac wanted to let Eugene know. Yeah, it's almost. Like it feels like ego in that case, huh A. 100%. 100% because that's what's driving guys like

this anyhow. Yes, and and Isaac was not a material person and he is not a material person just like when he came to pick me up at the at the at the airport the first time I met him. He shows up in this beater like old like Toyota. It's like a Toyota that looks like a Jeep. I don't even know what they are. I'm not a car guy, but he shows up and his dog had like chewed into it. It was like an old 95 like and it was just a beater. Like you'd never know this guys

worth millions of dollars. He's just driving this beater around LA. Like a full runner or something. Yeah, yeah. With like no top, like no top on it or whatever. And I'm just like, it was alien to me. So you got all this money and you're driving this thing. Like that's crazy. So the so he says how I want you to go to Dylan and Dylan Gage.

We would buy Silver Eagles from because they were often competitive enough with Eugene where we might save a few cents per coin, which in this market, when you're operating in such low margins, that few cents over 1000 coins is worth it, right? So we would often shop. So we had a relationship with folks down at Dylan Gage and I reached out to them and said, this is what we want to do. And they'd like, we've never done this before. And I'm like, well, I'm telling

you that it happens. That's how we have our other coins. So they go and they talk to them and they come back and we broke this coin. Well, it cost way. So we did AI think it was 1/2 ounce gold coin and we when we were looking at it, we were like, well, what's a 110th oz cost? So it costs actually a lot more to mint a 110th oz than it does 1/4 ounce than it does 1/2 ounce and so on.

So that's why it makes more sense to do silver because silver costs less and it means that we don't have to front load as much capital to get them to die and and so on because there's a certain commitment. In fact, Isaac's brother actually took out a, when we got our first, when we got our first exclusive coin, it was a silver, silver coin. Isaac didn't have the capital for it to put the money down.

And so he, his brother actually took out a second mortgage on his home and loaned Isaac the money to do it because he believed in Isaac so much that Isaac would be able to make Augusta successful. And within a year we'd paid off that line of credit and give his like give his brother his money back. And so like just to give you an idea. And it was a few $100,000. So well, gold is a lot more expensive. So you'd need instead of a few $100,000, you'd need millions of

dollars. So what we did with the Dylan gauge deal is we, we had built a reputation and, and so the mints knew we were good for it. So they didn't expect a huge down payment. And so we just minted, we just wanted 5000 coins, right? So we limited the mintage 5000 coins and then you pay a spot plus a percentage. So the way that gold coins work is you pay a spot plus percentage for these exclusives. But with silver, it's a spot plus a flat dollar amount. So for our half oz coins and the

silver, it was spot plus $2.75. So if for 1/2 ounce coin you just take spot, so the ask price, sorry divided by two and add $2.75, that's our cost at any given time, OK. And we don't hedge. So it's just whatever the open market is that's we're buying at that time and that's what we're buying. So we're buying it if it if silver's 30 bucks, we're paying 17, you know, 25 for a coin that we're going to sell to you for 35 to $40.00. So. Yeah, which is why they don't care at all. What?

They're not buying futures. They're not trying to game the system to try to get a leverage on the market to be able to get the best price for silver. They don't even care. They don't care and a lot of the times what happens is you get we would oftentimes. Okay, so let's talk about the sales. You want to talk about the sales, So the sales, the the sales work. So you get the pre qualification, you get your junior account executive. They say, hey, do you have

25,000 to qualify you? And then they pass you off to your lead, your lead account executive. And the lead account executive gets on, they talk to you, they start building rapport. OK, so you had some guys like there was an older guy within Augusta. He's actually a really good guy and he was one of the more normal people. And he had this spiel and it was actually true, but he had this spiel and he'd say, and he was older. He's going to be in his mid 60s

at the time. And he says, hey, yeah, so when I was in at the when I was at the Colorado Metal Exchange back in the 60s or whatever it was, blah, blah, blah. And he, so he starts building this rapport, right. So if you're someone that has no industry experience and you have this guy that starts telling you, hey, my name is, I'm not going to say his name. My name is Frank.

And you know, I've been doing this for this long and Oh yeah, when I was back doing this on the on the floor at the exchange and blah, blah. And you're talking about all this thing in the 60s, right? So, you know, he's all an older guy. You know, he's a seasoned guy. You know, he's been doing this forever. So what's the first thing you think it's like? I'm going to defer. There's a, there's an element of deference like you do with your stockbroker.

I'm going to defer to you. I've told you what my level of risk is. I'm going to defer to you on what the best assets are to buy. So for My Portfolio based on the conversations we've had. So you there's this level of deference and they build themselves up as fiduciaries, but there's no such thing as a fiduciary. This is literally like a retail trade because they're not they're not dealing in commodities, they're dealing in

physical assets. So this is a physical tangible coin you're going to purchase and they're going to send to you or to your depository. So they're building this rapport with you and they do this over days, sometimes weeks, right? Get you comfortable. Hey, so maybe Kyle, your maybe your mom was in the hospital last we spoke. Hey, Kyle, how's your mom doing, man? I've been praying for you. I've been praying for you. None of them are Christians, you know.

No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't call one of them a sincere Christian. I've been praying for you. I've really been hoping that she'd be should be doing better. And you know how the kids doing, you know, like, you know, how's your pops, right? And so they're building this relationship with you and you're building trust just by very insincere pandering, essentially kind of what the left do and just just consistently pandering, pandering to you. And then you then it comes time to do the trade.

So they've qualified you, they've built this rapport with you, sometimes over days, sometimes it could be only a day or two, depends how fast the customer wants to move, how, what their comfort level is, right? So, and then they say, OK, the customer says, OK, well I want to buy silver American Eagles and I have $200,000. OK, perfect. As soon as you send us the money and we'll receive the money, we will, we will will lock you in with your trade. So they have to go.

So the way that this works is you have a Trust Company because you're not allowed to physically hold them. It's a one of the rules of the IRA. You're not allowed to physically hold your own assets. I won't get into why not, but you can't. So what you do is you have a Trust Company, equity, trust, Kingdom trust, all these different trust companies are set up. It's kind of like a stock broker, I guess you could say. And their job is to ensure that

you don't take physical hold. So you have to, to get a depository and a Trust Company. The Trust Company then you wire your money to the Trust Company from your IRA, which is still with technically within an IRA. And then you tell your Trust Company where they, where you want them to send your money.

So you're still in control, you're still buying the assets, you're still negotiating, but the Trust Company is in control of the funds and making sure that everything is where it should be. And then once the funds have been transferred from the trust and you make the trade, we then ship them to a depository like Delaware or Brinks or something like that. Delaware depository in the repository, hold the funds. So that's the other thing.

If you're buying physical assets to have in your house, you ain't getting them in your IRA. They're going to go to a depository. And if the crap hits the fan, you're never going to get to them because they're just not going to let you in. So. I don't think people understand that. But because it's the IRA now, if you were to just buy them direct, you would just get them direct.

That's a different animal. You could ask for physical delivery, but because of the rules of the IRA, because it's a tax deferred account, there's all these special conditions, which is why you don't have, you know, instantaneous access and you can't hold them yourself. Correct the the so OK, you send me the money. So hey, I've decided I'm going to buy $200,000 of, of silver American Eagles. I've talked to my salesman about it.

He says cool, send me the money. So I I tell my Trust Company, hey, send the money to Augusta. We actually worked with Kingdom Trust, so we'd built in a relationship with Kingdom Trust. So any new customers we'd refer to Kingdom Trust. We didn't get any kickbacks. But what that did was it built more more of a repertoire that we are legitimate because we're working with a legitimate Trust Company, right? So it's all about building this identity, this image, right?

It's perfect. Like what con men do, right? They build this identity, this image, and you know, they're, you know, this grandiose salesman. So you send them. So we get your money, but we haven't conducted a trade yet because we can't trade your asset. We can't trade your dollars for assets yet because maybe you told your Trust Company yesterday to wire the money and they didn't get to it till tomorrow. Well, the next day and Silver's

moved $0.20 in either direction. So we couldn't lock you in because we don't have the money to buy your assets, right? So we need your money in house so that we can buy because we're not hedging anything. We're just strictly, you tell us what you want to buy and we instantly, once that's locked in, I'm sending a purchase order to Eugene and Eugene's sending me a back. So maybe I lose a cent or two here or there, but it's not a big like we're not with no

reason to hedge. So and when you're working with these margins, it doesn't matter. So I have $200,000 of your money. You wanted silver American Angels. Now I have your money. Now you're nervous because you're trying to call me and I put you on ice for three hours after I've received $200,000 your money. So you're nervous and then I call you. I, I, sorry, buddy, I've been busy. Yeah, Yeah. So, hey, listen, I was looking at your. I was looking at what you wanted

to buy. And I think that you should really consider this other asset. And then it's game on. Then it's game on. And Kyle, if you're a 657075 year old person that has no experience in gold, that you're and, and, and this person has your money and you get nervous and then, and then, and then any victims will tell you this, they'll get nervous.

They have my money, man. Like I didn't know if they were going to steal from me. I didn't know if they were actually legitimate at this point, but I knew something was wrong. I didn't know what. So that was game on. Yeah, this asset's way better for you. It outperforms bullying and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So then they start in right. And it's like, no, I really want bullying. Oh, you know, I think that it really like really, you should

really consider this. So there's different approaches, every salesman different. There's a guidelines in which Isaac said what we actually have a sheet, have a sheet and that the sheet was called what to say and what not to say because Isaac wanted to make sure that they weren't bait and switching or alluding to bait and switching. That's really what is happening. But they're not promising they're going to sell you something.

They're just flipping you once. They call it flipping, once you get the money, we flip you out of their bullion trading to a premium trade. So but now you're nervous and I go, hey, so like, maybe you're not biting, right? Maybe you're maybe you're like, no, I really want silver eagles. OK, awesome. Cool. All right, well, let's get that locked in for you. Just give me a couple of minutes and I put you on hold. 10 minutes goes by, 15 minutes go by.

Maybe I hang up on you. And then you call back and you get an admin and an admin says, oh, yeah, he's on the phone right now. It's like, well, I was just on the phone with him. Oh, yeah, you, I guess you guys got disconnected. He's on the phone with another, another client. And then a day goes by and I said I'll have $200,000 of your money, Kyle, and you want Silver American Eagles, but I really don't want to sell you Silver American Eagles because I've got $20,000 on the line.

So then maybe midday next day. Oh, hey, buddy, Sorry I got disconnected. Hey, yeah, man. So I just wanted to re engage with you all the while the market's doing this, right? You just want to get locked in. You want to make sure that your, your, your assets are safe, that you're going to receive your assets. And this. And so I call it, it's like, it's like the used car dealer model or the car dealer actually not used car. It's a car dealer model, right?

You go there, you want the shiny new vehicle and they wear you down, they weigh you down, they weigh you down. And then finally you just say, OK, whatever, I'll I'll take whatever you want to give me, right? Like I, I'll take all the bells and whistles, right? And if they do that same strategy, but just at a larger scale, right? I have $200,000, maybe I have $500,000 of your money, right? So. And they already have your money. And they already have your money.

Which would be a lot different. It's it's the equivalent of the bank handing over the money that you were going to do on a car loan and now they're controlling it and they're going to tell you what they're going to let you walk out with. And you're wondering if I'm going to walk out with anything. I didn't realize that part of it, but that makes a lot of sense too. Yep, and so now.

Such a big leverage position the minute, the minute that you have it. But I mean, well, look, I, I used to sell, I've, I've sold probably $20 million worth of computer equipment when I was working for Dell. So I've sold, you know, at a, at a business to business model. And we, we sold, you know, 5 figures, 6 figures on deals.

And you would never be able to argue from a position of having their money 1st and then wondering if they're going to get anything that is such a that is such a, a mind job to be able to work from that position. And, you know, it's so easy to abuse it. Yeah. If you're a scrupulous guy, why would you want that? You wouldn't want that. That's crazy. You want somebody to enter into a transaction. You want to shake hands. You want them to come back and

give them business again. This is the one time deal. That's the other thing I think people have to realize too. And I'm just realizing it myself. This is a one time winner takes all. I got a shot to take everything you got. Yep, and they won't tell you to only invest 10 to 20% like any good financial advisor would. They'll tell you, Oh no, you should invest all of it. It's great.

Like this is a great thing. Maybe every now and then, if someone's really like, well, I watched Dave Ramsey, someone will go, yeah, Dave's probably right. You should probably only do 20%. But if I can get 20% of your million bucks, it's $200,000 and I get 20 of it. So yeah, I might not have gotten the other, you know, 800K, but I still get 20,000 bucks. That's right.

If you buy what I want you to buy, So you have this element of where you have unsavient investors and you, they're new to the market and they're being completely taken advantage of. And now they didn't want, no one ever calls and says, hey, I'd take, I'll take $200,000 of your premium assets. Please. No one knows what these premium assets are until they're sold them.

No one cares about them. People call because they want gold and silver, American Eagles because that's what they've read about, or Canadian Maple Leafs or something at large that can be resold. And so no one calls ever wanting them. And they completely use that position of leverage to really strike anxiety into the people because now you're thinking, are these guys legitimate? Are they wait, they, they have my money, but this guy just was like blowing me off like, is this guy legitimate?

Or maybe he won't call you back for two days, right? I mean, this happens. Won't call you back for two days. I, I witnessed a guy and I actually bumped heads with this guy and I witnessed this guy. I was in the office, it's down there for one of the Christmas parties and I'm there and he and I had he, he just talked to everyone like they would do it on their shoe. So it was funny. So he calls me one day and I don't remember what he was calling me for.

He's calling me about a trade or something. And he was just talking to me like absolute crap. And it was not the first time. And I had told Isaac several times you need to go talk to him because I don't talk to people like that and I don't expect to be talked to like that. And I'd never seen him operate on the sales floor right at this point because I'm up here in, in Washington state.

So he calls me and he he's just being an absolute Dick and I'm just like, I go, who the F do you think you are talking to? I don't talk to you like that and I don't expect you to talk to me like that. And I just hung up on him and then I got a call from Isaac. If you it's kind of funny looking back. I was hot though. I was mad because he's just talking to you like a piece of crap. So then Isaac calls me and

Isaac's laughing. He calls me on Skype and the guy was stood in his doorway and Isaac's laughing and he had he's in there bitching at Isaac about me. So Isaac called me and I could hear him bitching and I was like, you tell that piece of shit that he doesn't know. So I'm going off. So we're kind of having this thing. So Isaac says get out of my office. He leaves and I said, bro, you got to tell this guy, man, like I'm not, I'm not his bitch.

Like that's not. And I don't treat people that way. You don't treat me that way and he doesn't treat me that way. Well, then a few months later I go down and I, I walk in and he's just like this short little Asian guy, the Super rotund Asian guy. And he's just like, he looks at me and I just like, I look at him and he, his head just goes down like this, right. And I'm not a, I'm not like a, I'm not an intimidating guy by

any means. And I wasn't trying to be, but it was just like, oh, so you're just all talk on the phone. So then I'm in Isaac's office. So Isaac, when I was down there, Isaac had a desk for me and I would work in his office with Isaac and Isaac it had all these glass doors installed in all of the offices that were soundproof so you could softly hear this sales Albert. Really it wasn't distracting. And Isaac had went out to like grab water or something.

And I just hear yelling from the sales floor and I'm like, what is going on? And I go out there and this guy is on the phone with a client. You're an affin idiot. You're stupid. I'll never sell these assets to you. I've been doing this for 15 years. If you don't take my advice, you're an affin moron. Click hangs up. I don't know how much money the guy had had on. Well, obviously we had his money, right. So we're we were sitting on his money.

He's wanting to do the trade and and then this is the treatment he's getting. So I'm just like wide eyed like this. I'm like, what is going on? Right? Like I've been there a few times. And he never worried that he had just started since the last time I'd come down in between the times he had started working for us. And so Isaac and I go in and I'm like, go, what is going on? He goes, that's just his style. I'm like, that's just his style. Who on earth would ever buy anything from him?

Why would you buy something from someone like that? But it's the it's the psychological portion of this position of power and authority that people even at large in society, we look at these people as authorities. You saw it happening COVID, the doctor said this, so it must be true, right? You, you see this all the time. There's this deference to some form of authority. I am no authority in the gold industry. I'm just a guy that lived an experience that I believe.

Is wrong. Your friend is, I bet you 10 times more knowledgeable than in gold than I am. I just have a very honed in view of the experience that I lived and seeing people be harmed and I'm wanting to expose that I'm not a gold expert by any stretch of the imagination. So with that said, it doesn't mean that what I'm saying isn't true. It's just that hey, you should probably go vet what I'm saying to you, which is what I did with Jeremy Miller when he called me. I'm going to tell you

everything. Your job as a journalist is to go vet me and but I can tell you when you vent me, you're this is going to hold true. And so there's a psychological portion to it. And he ended up, see, I don't remember the exact trade, but he ended up selling to that guy premium assets. The guy ended up flipping into premium. And I think a lot of that is derived from this figure. You have my money. I saw you advertised on Newsmax or Fox or something like that.

So I think you're legitimate. Yeah, they're buying legitimacy. That's the thing that people don't realize. It's like, Oh well, they're associated with a credible organization like Fox News. They wouldn't do business with scumbags. You know, they're, they're associated with Ben Shapiro. Ben Shapiro's a really smart guy. If you think Ben Shapiro's not smart, like you're not smart. Ben is very bright. It's, it's his intellect is, is very high. He has a like a .1 percenter or higher.

Obviously just listening to him articulate points. That doesn't make him scrupulous. I don't think he's unscrupulous necessarily. I just saying he's not necessarily scrupulous because he's smart. We have this weird thing in society where we associate if you're attractive, you're articulate, if you're able to make a point and you have a certain sliver of legitimacy, whether it be from association with a news organization or you're in a movie. Somebody's willing to do business with you.

Someone's willing to put you forward. Now, you must be something, right? I mean, that's what we do. Like, we just look at people and we're looking for what are they associated with? Do we think that's credible? And yeah. And then if they had my $200,000 or $500,000 or 1,000,000 bucks, that'd be real scary too, because now here's this person telling me I'm an idiot. Maybe I'm an idiot. People ask they they, you know, self doubt is a very common thing no matter how intelligent you are.

Well, and that's the other thing. So people say, well, how? Like there are people who just get it right. So for example, I know of someone, you and I talked off the air about this, but I know of someone, a very, very popular figure who reached out to me about doing a documentary on this issue. And I'm this is a very early preliminary stages. I'm not going to say who could just in case it doesn't happen.

I really hope it does. But they reach out to me and, and I'm helping them build this case. Now the reason why this connection was made is because again, I, like I said, I have people in the industry, in the segment of the industry still have FEMA information. And I happen to know that there was a firm that offered this person a multi $1,000,000 a year deal to sell gold. I'm sure. And this isn't like you said,

this isn't 3000 bucks plus 10%. This is just multi $1,000,000 in cash a year just like here's cash. I'm sure there's probably a percentage or something. So this person says give me all of the information, give me all of the information being scrupulous and I'll make a decision. And I I've yet to confirm this, but the the fact that they've reached out to me about doing a documentary tells me there's probably some truth to this.

In fact, the reason why I reached out to them was to confirm this was true or not and they were looked into it. They realized probably a lot sooner than I did. Again, I was a young, dumb, ignorant kid, immature and ignorant. Went back and said, no, I'm good, thank you. Turned down multi $1,000,000 deal just like you turned down, you know, probably $3000 a lot is probably a lot to you compared to the millions of dollars this person already makes, right?

So it's all relative and and so on. And so he says, no, I'm good, thank you. So I have an industry insider reach out and say, Hey, this person just said no to this crazy deal. Like they're offered them like this crazy deal. I was like, OK, so I reach out and I say, is this true? Not trying to get airtime, not not even thinking anything like that. I'm just like, I want to know is if this is true and if you came to the same conclusion that I

did. And if if this is true and I get a call from a producer, hey, we're interested in doing a documentary and. The fact the matter is, is you cannot pay that kind of money in that industry for buying retail. Clients can't do it. The margin doesn't exist in scrupulous business period. And anybody who knows anything about money and this person we're talking about like what probably 9 figure net worth, like not, not a, not a small

amount of money. When you have a nine figure net worth, you know what money is, you know what money can buy and you know what people can afford to pay to get access to an audience, there's got to be a big profit margin. And that doesn't exist in the metals market. It just doesn't exist. Like I said, $3000 worth the opening bid when I had small, I think we had a $5000 offer. And then I told people who have repeatedly approached me, they'll, I've, I've been approached every few months

since I started doing this. I do this for a living. I'm able to sit and do a do a podcast for a living, which is a shocking thing to be able to do. It really is. I mean, like it's not easy to do to grow that so that the you only get to sell that credibility one time.

And I, I decided right when I got started, you know, because just how I'm built, I imagine you're wired the same way right now when you're looking at it, the conversation we're having vibes, but you only get to sell your credibility one time. Or you say, I've built up credibility in public. I've told people things that I know are true.

I've not, you know, I have not made grandiose claims to the Washington Post where they went out and vetted me and found out that I was a fool because that's the last time anybody talks to you. You only get exposed one time. You can only sell that credibility one time. And it, and, and this is worth knowing. I've, I've said it a couple times on, on, on my podcast, but I'm going to say it one more time and you can walk forward

with this as well. The business of the podcast world, the business of sharing information with people, what it is, is I say things that I believe are true or that I know are true or that I can vet and prove are true. And I give people access to other people's stories and they see things that we think are credible. And the thing that I'm doing is I'm buying your attention with

my information. And then I'm selling your attention span to my advertiser who says I'm going to associate with Kyle Serif and I'm going to associate with Dale Whitaker. I'm going to associate with Sean Hannity, who was mentioned earlier. It doesn't matter who Ben Shapiro, take your pick. I'm going to associate myself with those people. And when they listen to Matt Walsh, Jordan Peterson, fill in the blank, they're also going to

hear my message. And that person is basically cosigning, saying you can access my audience because I have their attention and I'm willing to sell access to it. That's what I do. That's what the Kyle Seraphin show is. It's what everybody else's show is. It's I'm selling access to my audience. So I damn well better believe in the things that I'm giving people access to. Yeah. And it's interesting.

So when I went to the Turning Point USA event last week, so I drove about, it's about an hour and a half and I went to Washington State University and like I said, I printed out Charlie the whistleblower complaint redacted for Charlie and I got there early. And, and so the way that they they do it is they want obviously contentious arguments, like counter arguments to what Charlie would believe so that they can debate, which just makes sense. So I go there and I'm like, hey, I want.

So they said, well, watch your question. So I get right to the front of the line. I'm like second in line and it was super early and I'm like like 30 minutes before Charlie's meant like even show up. And I'm like, so I want to know if Charlie believes that he has a responsibility to his viewers to vet their sponsors, that he the advertising that he's doing on behalf of P of products or,

or whatever. I said because I have access, I have information right here that generally speaking would state that there is a potential that one of the his advertisers is defrauding his viewer base. Can't say definitively, I never worked there, but I can tell you all the telltale signs. And but I believe he has a responsibility to vet that, that company. And so if he doesn't do that, then he's doing a disservice to his viewers.

And I don't believe, I've never met Charlie Kirk, don't know him, but I like you said, he says things that I believe to be true. I have to share the same faith with him. I believe him to be a very, I believe him to be morally grounded. And this is where I say I don't think all of them know for but

this is happening. And often times, you know, these guys have handlers, they have other people dealing with marketing stuff and so on. But that does not alleviate them from the responsibility to vet their their advertisers. And this is true of of them, this is true of Fox, is true of everyone. This. Is a dirty secret in the conservative, in the

conservative world. I've done now this will be the second podcast we've done on it. The first one, I had a dozen people reach out and said you probably saved my life savings 'cause I was in the middle of a bicycle with somebody like this. Yeah, if we you know, that was just one time. I don't have a huge audience. I don't have Charlie Kirk's audience. I think I have a smarter audience if I'm going to be honest, because I think the people that listen to me are very discerning.

They're exactly what you said they heard. You're going to hear your story. They're going to go out and check it out for themselves. They're going to go read that Washington Post article, which we'll post and they're going to go out and do the due diligence that they have and they go OK, I believe that to be the case. Now there's a certain amount of credibility. I don't Co sign on everything that anybody comes on and says to me, but I know, I know that.

Do you have a gold sponsor? Is a regular question for anybody that has an audience, particularly in the preservative space. That's interesting because I remember. Everybody gets it. Remember the Steven Crowder Daily Wire debacle? Remember that whole thing? Of course, I remember watching Steven Crowder's Rent about about that whole contract debacle. He says at the very end of his rent, right before that, I forget which video it is specifically, but he says at the very end of it is rent.

He goes, I don't want to be there selling people another damn gold sponsor or reverse mortgage. And I just went, oh, OK. They know exactly what they're selling. They'll like I, I'm just telling you right now, these are smart, savvy people. There's a, there was a, a client that we had that was selling something. So here's the thing.

I don't sell every product that every company that I work with, I will mention the products that I think that I would spend my own money on. And so people and people may know, I'm not going to say it specifically because I don't badmouth people that pay me. I'd like, you know, we got into a good agreement. I will represent products that I can stand behind. If I would spend my own money on it, I'll do it. And if I won't, I won't. And I've had sponsors leave because they said, Hey, we want

you to to promote this. And I said, well, I don't do that. Generally speaking. I'll just tell you, like generically, I don't do any supplements ever. I never have. I've never been interested in supplements. I don't even like multivitamins. My wife will come and bring them to me and I'm like, she's my wife. I'll take the Volta vitamins, but I don't want to do it. I don't like us buying multivitamins. It's not my jam. I don't do supplements.

So if you want me to sell your supplement, you got the wrong guy. Doesn't matter what the supplement is. I'm not going to spend Kyle's money on it. So I certainly wouldn't ask my audience to. If you think these people don't know what they're, they're reading the scripts, I promise you, because you get the script before you have to go say it. It's not like the first time you saw it is when you have to read the script or you, you know, read the marketing pitch.

This is the same for everybody. So I have a montage of about six or seven of them and it it says it says save. What is the exact clip? And it's literally verbatim the same script, you know, hedge your hedge against inflation with gold or something like that. And I, I put them together and it's like 6 or 7 conservative and I'm as conservative as they come. This is what I, I think this is also important.

Important is I'm not some leftist pink haired progressive Antifa. I'm going to key your Tesla kind of guy. I'm, I am as conservative as they come. And I am on the record doing multiple interviews. I run for Secretary of State as a Republican in Washington state. Last year. I talked about talking about the, the scary and the ominous voter issues that we have in Washington state, which I had other moderate Republicans telling me, don't talk about that issue.

I'm like, this is a problem. Like, what do you mean don't talk about don't talk about the truth? Is that what you're asking me? So I'm very, very conservative, you know? And none of this is, yeah, just broadly speaking, though, none of this is to say that you shouldn't own gold or silver. Like if you own gold or silver, if you want to own it, like there's nothing wrong with it. I have, I have silver coins. I have some gold, not a ton. I have more ammo. I have more guns.

I have assets that are worth things that and if people listen to last week's show, you know, Andy Sheckman is very scrupulous and he owns a lot of gold. That's what he does. And he and he owns silver and he owns baseball cards and he owns sports memorabilia and things of, of actual what? What's the word? Numismatic. Numismatic, I hate that work. But yes, I had I had more than

one. I'm I'm telling you, I've had and I had probably I've probably had five approaches and a couple from advertising agencies as well that represent these people. So that's not saying that that like owning gold or silver is bad. I think there's, there's plenty of reasons for a lot of people with a lot of wealth do that's true.

Even like the most wealthy people that I know that are in my immediate family, they they have some they just don't own only that they never would 20 percent, 15%, something like that that distributed in. And I don't think they generally keep it in their Iras. I think they probably have it as part of their personal, you know, portfolio investments. But again, what you're saying is not anti conservative.

I don't think what it's saying is that there's a dirty secret that Conservian conservative audiences are a ripe prospecting grounds to generate very gullible leads, and people are more than willing to trade on the credibility of conservative podcasters, personalities, newscasters, and so on. And it happens from the absolute highest level that exists.

Whoever the most highly paid, most highly watched, most highly viewed people and and highly respected, all the way down to a guy who nobody had ever heard of before, like me. It's crazy how much. Is that is crazy and I didn't know that they were they were that being that aggressive in the market. They're they're multi level. Do you realize that? What do you like in terms of they're going to offer you one type of deal and OK. So I've got I've got 25,000 followers over on rumble right

now. We've got about another 10,000 on YouTube, you know, a couple 100,000 over on the social media platforms. All right, so I'm like AD tier AB. You know, if if Sean Hannity, Jesse Watters, Tucker Carlson are a tier guys like those are the big names in the stratosphere, right? And just below that is going to be your big podcast. So you know, rogue is not one of them.

So let's do Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson, those guys in there B and then you get to the C tier and they maybe have a couple 100,000 down to like 100,000 followers. You'll get somebody from one of those tiers from the B, the B or the C tier that you're on their show sometime. And they'll go, hey man, do you have a gold sponsor? Who's your gold sponsor? And I'll go, I don't, I don't

have one. And they'll go, oh, well, sign me up. And I had a friend and I asked him, I said, well, what is this all about? Like, why does everybody always pitch it? He's like, well, if you sign up, maybe you get 5% of every sale that comes in through your name, but I get 1% as well. Interesting. So they're paying. So they're paying their sales guys, I'd say probably in this market around 7%. Then they're tacking on another five to six points, maybe another seven points.

To Finder Plus plus upfront money, because it's 357-8000 dollars a month, $10,000 a month is not crazy, 10,000 bucks a month is not crazy to pay somebody who's got a decent size audience, that is a guarantee that that actually happens. And then percentages and they get residuals from those clients as well. But yeah, tacking on 6 percentage points. So like you said, we're already whittled off. We're down like we're at probably 15% plus. The company's making 15 plus

whatever their costs are. And now and now you bypass buying lists, you bypass all of that stuff that we we were doing at Augusta and you're by and you're going straight to consumers like direct to consumer marketing with credibility, buying credibility. You're buying credibility because it's, you know that it's me, it's you.

It's that guy that you listen to every single day that that chirps in your ear that tells you what they think about news, what they think about political commentary, what they think about social. It's the person. It's Theo Von for all I know, Like I, I haven't seen Theo's. I I love what's the other pawn? I think he's hilarious. But if he had a gold sponsor, let's say, right, if he had a gold sponsor, it's the guy that makes you laugh, right?

So it's, it's that personal people, people who listen to me, people who will listen to your show. They get to know you every day and they start thinking like, you know, they, I have people e-mail me like we're buddies and I don't know who they are. And I feel kind of bad about that. I have some people that have developed a relationship with our audience, who I see them every day. And I've seen them for years, literally years now. I see them every morning.

I know they're there. If they weren't there, I would be like, oh, is somebody sick? Like, is somebody, you know, having to work a different schedule? I know some of my audience and they know me, and I'm out here telling you to go buy gold from this company. Yeah. And they're going to believe you because they're, they're invested in you as an individual and, and understanding your moral compass.

And that's the. Thing CD is, this is the CD part of it. And I'm telling you, they're buying credibility from somebody who people trust. Well, in everything that, like I said, everything that Augusta did was is to elevate that identity in that that authority. So it's, you know, the Wilshire Blvd. address might seem like something really small and a lot of people might not understand what Wilshire Blvd. is. They've heard of Wilshire Blvd.

In a movie or right, like they've they've heard of it and they're like, oh, why do I know that? And then you go, oh, these guys must be legitimate. It's like the most prestigious part of LA. So you build that credibility and then you're again, then you have salesman who have 00 and is these guys come in from Craigslist 90% of the time. So Isaac would advertise on Craigslist. He'd say, hey, so you have an advertisement on there, we're looking for salesman, blah,

blah. You turnover rate was super high, but you'd get some that come in and they were just aggressive. They might be charismatic, they might be good on the phone. You know, some guys just didn't like talking on the phone. They don't make it right. Some guys like the gentleman I was telling you about you just is angry at everything and just yelled at everyone. Other guys are charismatic. Some guys are older, some guys

are younger. Every single salesman builds their own style and but the reality is none of these guys, not, not not some of them have are educated. Some of them have gone to school and done things like that, but most of them are not. Most of them are, like I said, they would be working at McDonald's if they weren't making quarter $1,000,000. And some of them are genuinely people that you don't want to come in between their paycheck

on right? Like you just don't, you know, like that you don't mess like what? What's the old adage? You don't mess with a guy's bread of his ability to feed his family. And you know, but the, the reality is there, there is no such thing as a fiduciary in this part of the market. It, this is purely sales. This is like going into Macy's and buying a, you know, a watch or a, a piece of clothing right there, a retail store. This isn't commodities, It's not

futures. It's, well, it is a commodity, but it's a physical, tangible asset. This isn't futures. You're not buying paper gold, right? You're not doing it. You're not hedging or doing anything. You're buying a literal physical product that takes 0 skill to learn to sell and you are being told what to sell by a company. And what's, what's kind of scary about this too is so Isaac was sued with in that merit financial case. You can, you can look that up, but he was listed as as a

defendant on that case. Now that was, he was actually dropped from the lawsuit because he was covered under the corporation because he was doing his job at the direction of the corporation. The corporation said you have to do your job this way and he was doing his job that way. So he, he was given full immunity. So that's why also when these companies are sued, the companies go out of business and the, the officers get hit because they're the ones directing the company.

And but the, the salesman can just go start another company because they, they can't Pierce the corporate veil and go after the salesman and say, hey, you, you knew what you were doing was wrong. There's no Series 7 here. There's no credentialing. It's just there's no ethical responsibility for those salesman at all. Their only responsibility in their mind is to feed their

family. And So what they're going to do is sell you the most garbage product that they can sell you and claim it to be a better product than it than the traditional bullion route. And I, I spent, so I've spent, I mean, I don't know, hundreds of hours. I have a whole model built out that it shows exactly how and I, I'd love to share it with your friend that shows exactly how mathematically the premium coins never, like really are never a better, are never a better asset to invest in.

There is a point, OK, there is a point that if the market moves like 2, I think it's like 250% that it would be a better asset. If, if if if the company would actually. Buy back the coin at the bid price. But they don't because they manipulate the spread. So you, you might think you, you would look at this graph to go, Oh, well, look, there's that, there's that point where it

starts taking off above bullion. It's like, yes, if they weren't able to manipulate the price, which is what they do, they're going to tell you everything that they can tell you to get you to keep your coins. They don't want to buy $500,000 worth of coins that they have to resell because they buy it at the bid. They're going to resell it to the next client. But now they're margin shrinks.

Why would I sell something at a 30% margin, the same coins at a 30% margin to my next client when I can sell it at 110% margin? It just, it just doesn't make sense. In fact, Isaac and I got into this debate and I was so he says you don't make money on the reselling of the premium coins. And I disagreed. I said you, you make money. You do make money. I did the whole, I did all the math, the Commission, the Commission still gets paid. Everyone gets paid.

You make about 5%, you make about the bullion margin. By the time you've done paying Commission and everything else, you're afraid to spread. His argument was you don't make as much money. I said no, you don't make as you lose. You lose margin, but you don't lose dollars. You already made the profit. You're still making a profit. So yes, you lose, lose margin, but you don't lose dollars. He's like, no, no, no, you lose money. I'm like, no, no, no, you don't.

You just lose margin. So he and I went back and forward on this. And I don't remember what spurred that. It was something to do with not manipulating the bid. It was some conversation we were having. And it was, this was, I think this was before even that call with him where he asked me to manipulate, manipulate the bid. And, and, but why? But again, he's right in that why would I only make 5% when I

can make 20, right? So I don't want you to sell your coins back to me. I don't want you. So they'll tell you keep your coins. So this is a way better investment. You just have to hold them for like 7 to 10 years. It used to be 5 to 7. And then he realized, oh, that turnover is too quick. And then he changed the script to 7 to 10. So you can tell the sales guys, hey, you need to tell them 7 to 10 years. Well, now we're at the 10 year mark. I just realized we're at the 10 year mark now.

And so now you have customers, you have gold is up again, 300%. So 3X Silva's up 2 1/2, two and 1/4 times from 2016 in January 2016. So you're now at that point where people are going to come and be like, my, my gold spot is tripled, my silver is more than doubled. And then they're going to come back and sell. You can't tell them that you're that you're only going to give them 50% of what the trip the the spot is.

So like what I mean by that is I'm going to get it going to give you 50% of the gains that the market has seen. So the it's tripled, right? So I'm going to get instead of $3000 spot, I'm going to give you $2000 spot because they're going to go, but hold on a second. My spot is it's about 3000 bucks. What? This doesn't make sense. Right, right. How can my how can my asset be worth less than the general market based on what I paid for it? And that's when the game is up.

And that's when the game is up. And so the. How do these sales guys live, by the way, making this kind of money? How do they are they, are they spending a bunch of money? Do you see frugal guys that know Oh. Yeah. Oh yeah, So interestingly so like what cars? The parking. Lot in in Culver City. Yeah, it varies. It varies person to person.

So Shade lived in a very nice when I met him, he lived in a this big condo within like this very exclusive community within LA and like the around Santa Monica area. Isaac again, Isaac was not a material person. So his house was actually it was kind of a dated house in Santa Monica prime, prime real estate. I mean, it was 10 minutes walk

from the beach. I mean, it was, it was in a beautiful area, smaller place, probably only about 2000 square feet, 2500 square feet, multi level, but needed work and needed to be updated. In my opinion, need to be updated. But he didn't care. It's like he's not a material person, so he doesn't care that it's not updated. He doesn't care about any of that. Like a cupboard's just a cupboard. He doesn't care what is hanging on the front of his cupboard to to hold his glasses, right?

He's not that way at all. Was he married? So he did end up getting married. So that's kind of an interesting story. He so he was engaged to be married and they were doing the bachelor party and I think his, his wife had left to go to The Bachelorette party with her friends and he had decided that he and the boys from Augusta were going to go to the strip club. And so they do, they go to the street. What he tells his wife, we're going to go to the strip club, whatever.

And then, and I find this out of the fact. So I'm telling you this story as though I lived through. I didn't, I didn't go to the strip club. I did not go to the strip club. I wasn't even there. So then Monday rolls around and I'm trying to get ahold of Isaac. Couldn't get ahold of Isaac. Tuesday rolls around. Couldn't get a hold of Isaac. So now I'm like calling shade and I'm like shade, Where's Isaac? He has no idea. No one's seen or heard from him. Everyone's like what is going

on? So the story was he had told his wife they were going to go to the strip club, but they ended up being online like a 48 hour bin binger like Isaac and some of the guys from Augusta. And they went to the strip club not only once but twice back-to-back on two days. And he didn't tell his wife about the second time. So she obviously gets upset and so on. So she comes back from her thing, finds this whole thing.

I don't know if someone posts on Facebook or whatever, she somehow finds out she takes off to Hawaii. They don't even cancels the wedding, tells the whole family everything that happened, cancels the wedding. So he flies to Hawaii after her and I hear from him, I'm like Wednesday and he calls me on Skype and he's in like this like nice condo or something in the background. And I'm like, he's like, where are you? I'm like, where have you been? And he's like, that's a long

story. I'm like, well, where are you? He's like, I'm in Hawaii and I'm like, what? He's So he ends up telling me the story. And so I'm like, Oh, I was like, did you buy a laptop? He's like, no, he, he just for whatever reason, doesn't like laptop. So he, he went out. This is the kind of FU money they have. He went out, he bought a Mac like a brand new iMac. He took it, he used it and he just left it there. Didn't I was like, why don't you ship it home?

He's like, I don't want to deal with it, $3000 iMac brand new just left it there. Just to give a couple calls. So he, so he could do a few hours of work, but in that few hours of work he's going to make 10s of thousands of dollars. What does it matter, right? He just needs it to be able to pull up people's sales tickets so he can call some folks and close some deals or whatever it was he was working on. So, so then that ends up getting resolved.

And then she wanted to buy an actual house, her own house and so on. So he does end up buying a multi $1,000,000 house. And in fact, he, they just had their son. The last time I saw him, it was super awkward. I went down there. I don't remember what I went down there for, but just had his son and that I go into his house and it was very awkward because I'm in the background at this point working on working with the attorneys and so on. So I'm going there and I'm not

like I'm not a great liar. I don't like I can't stand in front of someone's face that I'm backstabbing essentially, right. So even though it wasn't really backstabbing, it felt that way to me. So I'm in his house and he's like, oh, introducing me. He was kid. And I'm like, oh Lord, this is so like, like I was like, Get Me Out of here. Beautiful house overseeing Lai mean multi $1,000,000 house. And just that's this big ass, big, big ass house that most of America couldn't afford.

Most of the people who are investing in these assets couldn't afford and. And it all comes from somebody's. It's blood money. Is yes and it and it it is all coming from the people who couldn't afford to live that way are the ones who are funnel funding this lifestyle. And he still drove. He ended up gonna get a little nicer of a car before I left, but it wasn't like he didn't do like a huge upgrade.

So there is one more element to this I think we should probably talk about before we wrap up. So there was, there's this area of, of the gold industry. So we talked about like this is in your IRA and this is in your IRA and so on. So when Isaac first started Augusta, it's very hard to break into this market as a new company, OK, because you've got other established companies. So this even within the segment of the market, it's very, very hard.

So Isaac was looking for ways to bring a new, bring new life to this to the industry to, to bring new to, to bring new, a new marketing scheme really is what it came down to. And so there is this thing called a self-directed IRA, self-directed IRA LLC Isaac is the one who coined this in the, the gold industry. He is the one who started the home delivery gold IRA. OK, so we talked a little bit about how you cannot take physical control of your assets

because it's not legal. And, and, and a large part of that, and I know I said I wouldn't get into it, but really the big thing if, if anything that you remember is because if you take physical control of your assets, you could go sell those assets, assets and then claim that you still have them. So the IRS thinks that you still have your assets when you really in fact don't. And you should have been taxed on them like a distribution from your IRA.

That's the fundamental reason. There's other reasons, but that's a fundamental 1. Essentially, you could you could liquidate and nobody would be able to keep track of it. Yeah. Or take a loan out against them, things that you ought not be doing against your IRA. So most people, some people watching might be familiar with like a self-directed IRA LLC for real estate, right? Like these things exist, same principle, but applied to gold.

And so the, the, the way that he did this is he took the self-directed IRA principle and then he needed to build credibility that this could be done because like what I decided to you and in the Internal Revenue Code, this cannot be done. So the question kept coming up, this is, is this legal? My guy says this isn't like, no,

it's absolutely legal. You just go to a bank and you hold the, the gold and silver in the bank at the bank at a safety deposit box, rent a safety deposit box at the at the bank. And that way it's illegal because you're not in physical possession. It's at the bank. But the problem is you still have access. So it's still not illegal. So he would tell this is like a Gray area. I think the, I, I think the case law is pretty clear on this regard, but I'm not an attorney.

But regardless, this was his end. This blew Augusta up and he started marketing the home delivery called IRAHDIRHDGIRA was what was on our ticket and he had a list of endorsements from attorneys. OK, so remember I told you he had that beater beater car. So we're I fly down to LA, we have this meeting with his attorney and we drive, I don't, I don't know LA that well. I was like, I went there, but I was always in Santa Monica or whatever. So I never, you know, So we're

driving through this area, dude. And I go to tell you, man, I was thankful we're in a beater because if we were in a nicer car, we would have been carjacked for sure. We were in, we were in the hood and I, and I'm like looking at him. I'm crapping bricks. I'm like, yo, where are we? And he's like, he's like, we're, we're fine. He's just like, just be chill. We're fine. So we're driving through this park area and there's just gang bangers everywhere like crazy.

And I'm bricking it. And then we, we finally get out the other side of this car and we're in this little area of LA in this restaurant that no one's in. That's like something out of out of obvious scene. We're meeting this attorney, a little bit of attorney and we're meeting this attorney and the attorney had asked to meet in person because Isaac wanted him to give a favorable position, written position on the home delivery goal IRA.

Right. And we go in there and this attorney was like kind of an older balding guy, little, little robust. And he had an assistant with him and the attorney dude was sweating like he was like, I don't know why he felt intimidated. I'm like, this is weird. Like I, it was like super weird. I'm like, this is weird. And so I don't know what conversations Isaac and he had had on the phone or whatever,

right? So I'm in there and he's like the attorney's super nervous and the his assistant or like or maybe another attorney or something. I don't know what he was paralegal maybe is sitting there and the paralegal does all the talk and he's like, so we're engaging with this guy. We order food, we're talking to the attorney and then the attorney's like, well, do you want to let him know what we found? It's like, well, you're the attorney. Why don't you let us know what you found?

And then he's this guy's just like, so it's weird, bro. He's like sweating. And it's like like he was like he felt he was going to get shot or something. It was so weird. And so he's like, he goes, well, you know, the guy is going on and on. And I finally just like he was like tricking a drink. He puts his class and he goes, well, you just get to the point. And I'd never seen like Isaac be like, he's a pretty pointed guy. He just like wants the information, but he's just like,

what's his glass? And he's like just get to the point. And they're like, we don't like in our we're not going to write you an opinion letter because we don't believe that this is legal. And Isaac says, OK, fair enough. He goes, send me your bill. Don't send me anything else, thank you. Just dismisses him. It was super weird. And so they leave. And then Isaac starts laughing. And I'm like, I was like, dude, that was weird. He goes, He goes, yeah, he goes, he goes, that's whatever.

He's like, it is what it is. And I said he said, yeah, that he's like that kid just like, rambled. And I'm like, dude, they seemed super nervous. Like, what's the deal? And he's like, he's like, I don't know, but it had to have been something leading up to that had to have obviously taken place right between them. That guy was that nervous. And I never reached out to him to ask, but it would be super interesting to find out then.

So this guy, that was the first attorney that we engaged with. So then Isaac goes to none other than Elance slash Upwork where he found B, and he posts for attorneys on there like, hey, I want you to do this. And then he drafts, he gets an attorney to draft an opinion letter that says the home delivery gold IRA is great and all this other stuff. And he pays the guy like $2500 and he says we want to use this for marketing. Is that OK?

Guy says sure, it's fine. And then what he does is he takes the letter that the original that one guy had drafted and he starts reaching out. He like goes to Google and he finds like, like attorneys that have a firm name that's just their name, like, you know, it would be like Kyle Seraphim, PLLC, whatever.

And he start like with 0 Google reviews and he starts reaching out to these attorneys and paying them $2500 a pop if they would just take what he had written, rewrite it, what the original rewrite it in like their words, sign off on it and then let us use it. You pay them 2500 bucks. And then I asked him, I'm like, where are you finding these guys? So he tells me and he and I'm like, well, like what? What's the logic? Like why, why are you doing that?

And he's like, these guys are hungry man. They need work. They need work. They don't, they don't, they don't have a big firm, they don't work on a big firm. They're not getting a steady paycheck. So $2500 for them to rewrite a an opinion letter that Isaac can post on the website. What do they care? Right has no legal weight and they're not going to burn any reputation anybody cares about.

Exactly. So we ended up having like 5 to 7 maybe of these things and he was using them for marketing purposes for the home delivery goal, that area. So that whole thing, that whole that it was a charade, the whole thing in my opinion wasn't legal in my opinion, should never have been done. But what ended up happening is he started forcing the hand of all of these other companies to start selling the home delivery gold IRA because people.

Are asking for it. Exactly, People were calling saying I don't want my assets at a depository I want them at my and so some of these guys are pushing my like this isn't legal. But eventually no one cared because the most of us don't like the IRS, right? Like most of us don't like that I'm I'm the a tax company. Most of us don't like the IRS. We. They're already doing scams. They're already scamming people. Isn't that the way the devil gets in the door anyway?

Yeah. Finds you at a a moment when you're low and and asks you to trade your credibility for something you think you need. Right? Right. Right now. But but the people that were being forced into doing it were the other companies that were already selling the premium I. Get it? I mean, it's, it's brilliant when you when you talk about leveraging something, it's like I'm offering something that no one else did. I've thought of a new twist on the old scam.

You want to be with it, you better be with the new scam. He changed the market that he wanted to break into and made himself the preeminent version of an already illegitimate thing that people thought was legitimate for some reason, because they already paid for all the credibility on Fox and everywhere else. Yep. And then what ended up happening was it started getting some

traction. I don't know who someone picked it up. Like one of the more mainstream gold gold guys had picked it up and had said like, hey, I don't think this is the kosher and it started getting some traction. So he killed. So he killed it, I think just killed it dead. Boom. We're not. He was already in the door, and he had a name. And then what happened is so here was, so how do you incentivize this?

OK, how do you tell your salesman to not sell a product that is yielding them the most money they've ever made in their lives? So how do you introduce a product that's going to make them a ton of money and then take that away from them? So as you can imagine, the salesman were not happy. They were like, hey, like this is our bread and butter. So you know what Isaac did? He said we're not going to, we're going to phase this out over the next couple of months. He shifted the commissions.

He says for the home delivery gold IRA, you guys are going to get paid 7%, but for a Traditional IRA, you guys are going to get paid 10%. Yep. So guess what the guys did, They stopped crying and they started selling and they said, hey, yeah, we we're phasing them out. We don't, we just, you know, I don't who knows what excuses they made. We're not doing them anymore, but you should just go a Traditional IRA route. It's a lot less hassle. Whatever. Look, it's so easy to make that flip.

Like I'm like I said, I, I worked in sales if you, if I had to make this flip and, and thankfully I didn't ever do anything. I never cared about being unscrupulous because it just wasn't worth it to me. But it's real simple. It's like, yeah, we had people, they had negative experiences, they were being targeted. If the database gets hacked, they're the first person to get robbed. Everybody knows you've got your not your life savings accessible to you.

That makes you a target for hackers, scammers, blah, blah, blah. There's such an easy way to sell that if you're not scrupulous on why we're not, I'm not going to do the thing that's actually illegal without ever admitting culpability. And here's here's the sad thing. You know, I used to sit, I never use this against people, but I see the angle every single time. I would have been a great con artist. Maybe that's why I could spot people that are full of it. But I'm just saying it's so easy

to do that. I could I could sell that all day long. It's just. Not well. And it's, it's like this, this is what I tell people say, you know, you know, it's, it's easy to do bad things. Being being good is difficult. Being bad is easy. It's like our default state is sin. Like we're born, like we're our default stand when we're born because we're fallen now is, is sin. So it's easy to do the the bad thing. It's hard to do the good thing.

Like I said, even even me after like four or five years of doing this, I just had that mental breaking point where I'm like getting nowhere roadblock after roadblock. And it's just like I'm done. Like it's just easy to be like I'm done. But at the end of the day, doing the good is worth it in the end, right? It's it's absolutely worth it in the end. And and I encourage anyone like you're a whistleblower. I'm a whistleblower and it you know, there's always the joke.

You're oh, you're blew the whistle, right? You know, whatever my friends always gives me crap, right? But. But it's a terrible term. It is a terrible term. It is, but my but my friends are super encouraging. They're like they they love that I was willing to or like I have one friend in particular is like, no dude, you did the right thing. Like and he encourages me all the time. You did the right thing. Like it just keep doing it.

Like it sucks, it sucks, it sucks, but keep doing the right thing and and you know you. And, and it without obviously my faith and, and having those others around me in my faith that understand this issue and have learned about it over the years of me doing this. I don't think that I could have continued to do it because it's easy to be selfish when you're not living for something beyond yourself.

And you know, I did it even in my 20s, even though I had a wife, I was still a very selfish person. The the selfishness being that I was chasing this, this monetary dream. My wife never has. My wife is not a material person. She's like, I don't care about any of that. She was again immediately called her old clients. Do you want me to come back and work for you immediately? You know, the, the, the wild thing is we're just getting off the Easter weekend. And so it's fresh in my brain.

But the paradigm shifted in the air after Christ died. Because if you look at what constituted a victory on earth for all of mankind up until that point, it was who accumulated the most power, wealth, influence, status, take your pick, who had all the assets, who won the game, right? I mean, that's what it is. Who was able able to to go out there? But how many people have heard the name of Jesus Christ? All of them, All of the people

have on this planet. At the end of the day, a statistically irrelevant number of people have not been made aware of who he was at least. And who can say that about the richest man from the year 1000 AD? How about the year 500 AD? How about the year 2500 BC? Could you say who the had who had all the things, who was the richest, most powerful person at any given time in history?

And yet the guy who died essentially penniless and was put to death by the state and died in the most horrific way possible. And then his friends were all killed because they were his friends. And that's the most powerful name that's that's out there. I'm just saying that rewrites the paradigm. It's how you know that you can actually win even though you're losing on earth, because it doesn't feel really good to be kicked for doing things that we you think are correct.

Yeah, I know it doesn't. And like I said, you know, we. So when I ended up, when I ended up quitting, my wife went back to work and I went and got a job here locally. And so I went from making like 150 plus $1000 to $45,000 a year because even because the opportunity that, and this is the other thing, the opportunity that was afforded to me by Augusta Isaac knew I couldn't get that here. I wasn't credentialed that I didn't have a degree.

He didn't have a Now I have my enrolled agents at US, but I didn't have that. I didn't have anything. The same as those attorneys who needed that 2500 bucks for a letter. Exactly. The devil finds you when you're at a time when he has something you need and it doesn't cost him very much.

I, I, I honestly believe that. I think that the there's something to be said about financial stability that allows you to to work from a better moral parameter, because desperate people make desperate choices, and I don't necessarily fault them for it. Yeah, and I wasn't even like, necessarily desperate, I think. Yeah, but hungry is the same thing hungry. Hungry is the same thing as desperate at the end of the day. But I yeah, that's true. There's an opportunity to exploit, right?

I mean, that's. Yeah, I mean, it's like, why would I pass up that opportunity not knowing what I know now, right? Like I, if I knew what I know now, of course I'd say right, but I'd say it's 2020, so. You have to earn that knowledge. You don't get it because you just walk in and and you know it. Unless you had grown up in a family where you knew what money looked like, you knew how money could be made.

You know, if I had been approached when I was in my 20s and someone offered me, you know, three, $5000 to talk in front of a microphone and we're going to give you gold. You know, we're going to give you a gold sponsor to read from. How would I know any better? The difference is that at 40 something, I know what money is and I know what money buys and I know what what an audience is. And I know I know what you can afford because I worked in sales jobs and I know what a

Commission looks like. That's fair. And I know what's crazy. If you're going to pay me a base salary of 5000 before I give you anything and then you're going to give me a percentage of somebody's 100,200 thousand $400,000 conversion on their IRA, you're taking that money from somewhere. I know that is a 40 something year old. I might not understand that is a 20 something. I just don't. I have a lot of grace for people because you don't know what you don't know right up until you know it.

And then you go, holy shit. You know, there's, there's something really ugly and I might have been part of it. I'm I'm blessed that I joined the FBI when I was 35, honest to God, because at 25 I don't think I would have seen the evil the same way. Yeah, well, you don't rightly. There's like that life, that life lesson. It's like, it's almost like, you know, you can. It's like we never listened to our parents even though they're

giving us solid advice. And then it's not until you grow up and you have your own kids and you're like, you know, my, that was right. A lot about, about a lot of things. And then you really want your kids to not make that same mistake. So you're going to. Yeah, they're going to. Yeah, it's the same. Yeah. They have to earn the knowledge of the heart. I mean, at least male males do. Women, I think, are sometimes different. They can actually be coached

differently. But men, we have to find things out the wrong way. It's like, don't touch that pan. It's hot. And you're like, but is it though? Now I've got a third degree burn on my freaking fingers. Yeah, it was hot. I won't do that again. And you tell your friends, Hey, don't touch that pan. They're like, well, how hot is it? We all do it because we're we're just, we're wired like that. I think that's the reason why

men go out and conquer places. I mean, this is just a deeper conversation on that end, But I think men go out and take risks that women won't take because that's how humanity existed. But you know what? Also, we always forget. I don't I remember it. You won't forget it now either. A lot of men died making those stupid choices before somebody went out and conquered that land or discovered something. How many guys didn't come back from that trip?

Somebody didn't make it back, you know, a couple times until finally someone did. And that guy is lauded as a hero. He just was either luckier or stronger or all the above, right? And And so he's the, he's the hero that did the discovery. A bunch of other people discovered it too. They just didn't live to tell about it most likely. Yep, that's true. That is true. That is true. So I think, I think we covered

most of the nitty gritty. You know, there's, I'm sure, I mean, there's always something else, but I, I think that the recap here is for folks that are looking to invest in gold and silver, go buy from your local mom and pop shop, buy silver American Eagles, buy gold, American Eagles, Canadian Maple Leafs. Those are good too.

And anytime someone's trying to push something on you that you didn't call to ask for and that they are trying to really, really push you, like, hey, like to convince you overwhelmingly that you're making a mistake, the best thing to do is nothing because you are better off taking your time.

Get your money back, take your time, do your research, and then decide what you want to do. Don't let some guy on the end of the phone who's bullish, who thinks that there's some figure from authority tell you that they know what's best for you, because in the end, you're the one that's going to have to live

with that. So hopefully the information that we, that I've given you today will help you make a better and more informed decision and, and helps help you spot these companies if you call from them. And, and look, this is what I'll just recap with is if you see a, an influencer, conservative influencer peddling gold, just don't buy from that company and then you'll be safe. I'm not. Again, I only have evidence of one company. I have a lot of sources on

others that I won't name. But the at the end of the day, if you want to safeguard your financial well-being, just stay away. And it's that simple. Go buy from your local mom and pop shop. Find a reputable dealer. Kyle has mentioned one a few times. Yeah, there's a couple. In fact, they can go listen to my original interview with Andy because Andy actually names his competition and he's got no

problem. Like reputable companies don't mind you shopping the market and, and then you're going to get a little bit of different service. You might have a little bit of different inventory. There'd be a minor difference in prices. It's not going to be enough to, to make or break anything.

And so you can shop that. But if people are wildly different or if they're selling you, I, I imagine that if somebody on the other end of the phone, I was just thinking, here's another analogy, because this is what I do. This is how I used to sell, by the way, is make analogies for people because I think making it graspful.

Imagine you walk into a car dealership and you're looking for an F-150 to buy, you know, and so there's your everyday work truck, it's got utility, it's got a known thing, and you can basically pay the same amount for an F-150. No matter where you go, you're going to get a different experience and it's going to be different closeness and maybe the Service plan is a little different or whatever. And you like the sales guy or you don't.

But if that salesperson's getting you and you came in to buy an F-150 and they want to sell you a Maserati lease. You. Know it's the same dollar amount maybe per month, but at the end of the day, you're not going to own it and you're going to have this flashy thing that has all this update. It's like, OK, that's not what I came here for. Why are you trying to sell me a Maserati lease? What do you get out of it? Just remember every salesperson I used to tell people what my

commissions were. I used to love it. Really. Yeah. Yeah. And they won't disclose it. Well, I would tell people this when I was selling Dell, I was like, look, I make more money on selling this product line, but it's not the best thing for you. So here's what I'm going to do.

I'm telling you what's honest and I hope that when you hear that, you know I'm being, you know, honest with you and that when you come to make another decision, I'd rather have your repeat business than take everything you have right now. That's what I would rather do. I'd rather make a business client for life that comes back to me because that feels good for me. It feels good for you. We both feel great about it. You know that I'm telling you.

I was like, I'll tell you exactly what percentage I make. I make more money on selling the software. I just don't think you need it. And so I would tell people that that's how you establish real credibility with people as you just tell them honestly. Well, I agree with you, there's not enough people like that in the world, unfortunately, especially with how cut throats, cut throat businesses today.

But this whole segment of the industry just is just the whole thing is set up from start to end to you know, we're not talking about variances of you know, 1 to 2% Commission or whatever. We're talking about, you know, 7 to 10% variances because they don't make the money on bullion at all. So they can only make money or good money one way and that's by selling you a product that is worse off for you. So just stay away from it. Just that's caveat you can do. Caveat import.

Buyer beware there. Yep, that may be the name. That may be the name of this episode. So Dale, you want to tell people where they can find you, follow you if they want to reach out to you. If there's anybody in the in the the media business that wants to put you on the show, or maybe even worse, like a politician that wants to reach out to you and actually do something about this, God forbid, maybe they'll do that too.

What's the? Best yeah, so you can reach me on socials, just type in Dale Whitaker. Dale Whitaker WAH is the actual handle on just about everything. And then if you want to get in contact with me and go to my website, dalewhitaker.com, and there's a contact form on there, you can also just e-mail dale@dalewhitaker.com. And yeah, if you reach out, if you want, if you need help, reach out. I'm like I said, I help people

all the time. A lot of what we've talked about here will probably also already help you from not getting scammed. But if you've already invested in these things, I'd be glad to help you get your money back in

any way that I can. And yeah, just reach out and, you know, share this with your friends because there's probably you probably have a few people in your inner circle that you didn't even know have bought these, bought these assets and I'll just close with this and and you'd be interested. This is interesting because I was, I had a, a party at my

house, like a party. It was a campaign watch party for someone who was running for local politics and starting with some folks that had showed up and I've gotten to know quite well. And I was just chatting with them and this, this conversation came up because they're, they're, they're, they buy gold and we're just again, it's, it's just, you'd be amazed. I'm sitting there and I'm talking to these folks and they go it X company doesn't do that too right? And I go but don't tell me and

he goes quarter million. I helped them get their money back, but yeah. There's a lot of shame in this stuff too. Correct. Yeah. The e-mail that I got the other day was I'm angry, ashamed. And there was another term as well. And it's like, don't be ashamed. Don't be be angry, but don't be ashamed. Very intelligent people, people with PHD's I have seen. I literally know of people with PHD's who were taking engineers, math Wizards who have been taken for a ride.

So don't be ashamed, reach out and I'll be glad to help. I love it. That's a really great offer. You know, God bless you for making that too. Dale, Thanks for spending so much time with us. I know people will share this up. And by the way, folks, if you're listening to this, you want to cut something out of it and send it out there so that people understand it. Do it whatever you want. That's that's 100% approved. Thanks for spending all that time with me bud. I appreciate it.

Thanks for having me, Kyle. Yeah, my pleasure. And that is the Sunday sit down with Dale Whitaker. You can find his links in the show description in the show notes. I hope you learn something and I hope you actually share it with somebody. We need to destigmatize sort of the the scamming that can happen. It is ubiquitous in the conservative space that people will be pushing these products and everybody thinks because I trust this person, they wouldn't

lead me wrong. That may not be the case. Whether they know better or whether they don't, you now know better and you can go out there and educate the masses. So share the like. We do appreciate that. If you guys want to make sure you're supporting the program, it's very easy to do and it's free. rumble.com/kyle Seraphin

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And we appreciate that I get the best data saying who's listening and when they're listening and what's interesting to them and so on. We get the comments and I see those as well. So appreciate all of you. I hope you guys have a fantastic either rest of your weekend or during the week. And I look forward to seeing you at 0930 Eastern Time. That is 8:30 AM in Texas, America, where we go live for our political commentary on a regular basis. Yeah, we'll see you then.

Have a good one. Thank you for listening to the Kyle Serafin Show, streamed live weekdays on rumble.com/kyle Serafin. Follow Kyle on Twitter, True Social and Instagram at Kyle Serafin.