SUNDAY CONVERSATION: Dr. Eithan Haim | "We cannot afford to stay silent" | Ep 509

It's righteous indignation where we should be righteously indignant. We should be angry, but should be the type of anger where, like, you don't need to eat, you don't need to sleep. Where like walk through a burning building and you can't get burned because the inferno that is burning inside of your heart is so much hotter than any

flames that are outside. Like the only way to make it through something like this is to to be animated by this righteous indignation despite it's not vengeance, it's justice, it's goodness, it's beauty, it's love. All interviewers have their own style, and my style is to try to get to the point and to be intensely curious. And the key to interviewing is listening. Take a look behind the curtain with a real whistleblower and

American patriot. Prepare to embrace the uncomfortable truth because this program has no time for comforting lies. Here is civil liberties enthusiast, Second Amendment defender and recovering FBI agent Kyle Seraphim. Well, hello, my friends, and welcome to the Sunday Sit down. Kind of a special edition that we do of the Kyle Seraphin Show only on the weekends. And yeah, that voice you just heard a second ago was my father. It's a family show.

We're going to be talking about something really important, family's fatherhood and walking without fear even when you know, you're up against something incredibly dangerous like the Department of Justice. We're going to be doing an interview with a suspendable friend. Doctor Etan Heim is going to join us momentarily. These programs are brought to you exclusively by 1 sponsor and

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Go to blackoutcoffee.com slash Kyle. Use coupon code Kyle. Kyle. Save yourself 20% on your first order there. Taste the coffee that doesn't just wake you up, it fires you up. It's blackout coffee at blackoutcoffee.com slash Kyle. Let's get into this one. Let's see what's going on here. On today's Sunday, sit down. We're talking to legendary suspendable Dr. I think you're you're the only doctor in the suspendable crew. My friend H Anne Heim. We're going to be talking about

whatever we want. How about that? That works for me. How are you feeling buddy? You know. It's it's kind of weird because you know, after something like this happens where you know, you're facing 10 years in prison and then one minute you're facing this like behemoth, you know, the federal leviathan. And then the next minute your case is dismissed. You know, you, I feel the same way as I did before.

And I think it's because, you know, you put on the shell of like protection, you know, like this barrier against like any hope or, or future. And I think that's maybe slowly coming off. So it's like I'm, I'm still kind of in warm mode because that's how I was for so long. Like my wife and I, you know, both of us feel no different. How's your baby doing? She's doing great, man. She's doing. She's growing like a weed. She's happy as can be. She's smiling.

She's playing. Yeah, it's it's a wonderful thing to see her grow up. What's the coolest milestone in the last couple days you've seen? So, you know, it was, it was huge. She was almost rolling over, like you could tell she was trying to, but she would roll over. She couldn't get her other arm under her to complete the roll. She was getting like 85% there, but you couldn't get that one

maneuver. So both my wife and I, she had just gotten back from Austin and she was able to pull off the roll with both of us there and we both saw it for the first time. So it was a huge milestone. That's awesome. Yeah, I remember that when my first daughter. It's awesome. Yeah. It's really cool to watch. Yeah, I just watched my 18th month old climb a six foot tall structure on her own with no help. Today. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. It's freakish.

Actually, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's like a six foot tall thing. You think if they fall off, you know, but at some point you have to let them do it, you know, That's, that's part of life. It's dad's job to watch that, by the way. Moms. Can't do it. Yeah, yeah. Almost to put hands on. Yeah, Steel Reserve, you know. To just stand by, be ready to catch. Yeah, quick reactions and even if they fall right, just make

sure they fall properly. And even if they have a broken bone, it's like, you know, it's not the worst I can have. I love it. I love it. This is that that sick version of like if. If it's broken, I can fix it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what you get for being a surgeon.

I know, yeah, 'cause I know what it is to have kids really messed up, you know, 'cause I've, I've taken care of enough of them, you know, so it's, I can identify the situations, you know, for the most part, that put them in, you know, danger. I get it. Let's do the beginning, shall we? Should we go to the beginning? Yeah, yeah. All right, you've been on the program previously, but we've had a lot of audience join us. Why don't you tell people who you are, where you grew up, and

what? What do people recognize about you when they meet you professionally now, if if at all? Yeah, So my name, you know, it's Eitan Heim. I grew up in Florida. You know, I was born in New York, only lived there for a couple of months and then moved to Philadelphia and then Mississippi, but spend most of my life in Florida. And yeah, it was like the perfect childhood, right? I had two parents, a family that I loved.

You know, my dad's a doctor, and I saw the the way that his patients had treated him when they saw him in public. And that's what I wanted for myself when I decide to pursue medicine. So that's why I ultimately pursued in college. I went to USF in Tampa and then medical school at Floor Atlantic University in Boca Raton. And then I did my surgical training in general surgery at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston, TX. You know, this is one of the most prestigious surgery

programs in the country. You know, this is where heart transplants were Lvads or trauma surgery was was invented, You know, one of the places where it's most known for that. And to be accepted at that program was a huge deal for me because I came from a kind of a non prestigious background. But I worked my ass off to score in like the 99th percentile in all my board exams, you know, to graduate like the top of my

class. So, and then, you know, for your second question, I would say the thing that people recognize the most about me now is just that I'm an average guy, even after everything that's happened, you know, you know, my patients recognize me as a surgeon, you know, who's going to take care of them. And that's mostly it. I've never, I've never been recognized in public. Never. Isn't that funny? Which is I, I and I kind of prefer it that way.

I mean, it's crazy that during my case, you know, we'll talk about it later. But like that there was a gag order and gag orders are used for people like, you know, who are universally known. But like I I've never even been recognized publicly and my neighbor has have no idea what's going on with me, you know? That's I, that's probably the weirdest thing to be involved in a national level struggle. Would it be fair to call that your struggle national? Yeah. For sure, for sure.

Right. And so there's a Twitterverse, there's there are journalists that are competing for your attention and for your scoops and they want to know, they want to interview you and they want to fly you out or come down and set up a whole production studio. And like, it's your neighbor said like crazy. Yeah, yeah. And, and yeah. Like, like we were filming an interview with Jordan Peterson, and this was after the first indictment initially came out.

And there was like this whole production crew at my house. My neighbors were like, what the Hell's going on over there? They thought it was maybe baby pictures, but no, it was. I had just been charged with four felonies and was facing 10 years in prison. And, you know, they were cool about it. And, you know, they're ended up

being really good friends. But yeah, most people just don't know it because it's kind of like a, a niche story, like most and most people can't, you know, because my name is kind of odd. They know me as Eitan, even though it's spelled Ethan. So you know, the there's kind of couple layers between like me being recognized and then the story itself. Do you think, yeah, you think your name is the marketing problem here? Is that what's going on?

I think so, yeah. And I'll only correct my name if I, if I know the person for more than like a week. So like, you know, I I've known you for quite some time, you know, I would, yeah. I would consider you a friend. And yeah. So it's not Eton instead of Ethan. It's just a it's a Hebrew name spelled in German phonetics. That's a move. What? Let's talk about what motivated you to really come forward with what you saw. First of all, why don't you tell people what you saw?

I know too much of your story, so I'm not going to assume anything. What did you see? And then what drove you to think like, hey, I got to make this thing public? Yeah. So I was just a surgical resident working at Baylor College of Medicine. And one of the hospitals that we spend the most time at is Texas Children's Hospital as part of like the Baylor College of Medicine academic consortium, right, Because you rotate at multiple hospitals.

So in 2022, the hospital had issued a very public statement saying that they were no longer going to prescribe or participate in the transgender interventions. And they said this because they were going to they they were doing it to avoid potential criminal ramifications, right? So that's a very specific reason. And the reason they released that because they said it, OK,

it was yeah, yeah. They said we're stopping all transgender interventions because of the potential legal ramifications, criminal legal ramifications. So they, it was like very clear. And the reason they said it, it was because a few weeks before the EG of Texas, Ken Paxton had issued an opinion saying that these interventions could be investigated as criminal child abuse, which they are. So it makes sense why the hospital would release this

statement, right? A couple of weeks later that, all right, in Texas, the AG saying this is criminal child abuse, we're shutting down the program, right? So in the months that followed, I saw that not only was it untrue, the hospital had continued the transgender program, but in actuality, they had expanded it into a multidisciplinary clinic, right, Including psychology, psychiatry, general Pediatrics, endocrinology, surgery, social

work, case management. And you know, they were speaking at the hospital's most prestigious lecture series, right? And, and I saw that in January of 2023, because it was only in mid 2022, a few months after this statement, that one of my colleagues even told me about them doing one of the transgender surgeries to implant a PV blocking device into a child. And I was like, no way, that's true.

It can't be possible. And that's when I found out about their statement from a few months before in March of 2022. So I just didn't believe it for the next couple of months that like it's possible that this amazing hospital I was working at, Texas Children's was capable of lying about something so significant. Like I just didn't believe it.

So, you know, it was only in January of 2023 that I saw the lectures from the grand rounds lecture series that I was like, man, there's this is blatant, right?

Like they're talking about how they're concealing what they're doing from the public and, and from the overseeing authorities in Texas. So it was at that point in January 2023 that I knew it was my duty to blow the whistle on what was happening and it took me 5 months of reaching out to journalists to get in touch with Christopher Ruffo, who ended up releasing the story in May of 2023. How did you go about selecting journalists to talk to?

It was just kind of who I listened to on podcasts, so like. Yeah. What does that look like as you reached out? So it's just cold emails. I would just find an e-mail of like an organization. I want, I want to say who because I want to put anyone on blast. Understand, understand from their point of view. I'm just some random guy. Like they have no reason to believe like what I'm saying, right? And you know, I just realized it's kind of dark. Do you want me to turn on light or anything?

Yeah, throw a light on. OK, so we got a little bit more light on the subject. Did you ever talk to to Chris Rufo about why he responded to your cold e-mail? Yeah, I so I yeah, So what that looked like, it was just be me sending out emails to people. And most times I wouldn't get a response. I would just keep on sending emails. But the reason that Christopher Ruffo, yeah, we talked about it and he said because it was a it

was a huge story. You have the biggest Children's Hospital in the world lying about a program that's manipulating, mutilating and sterilizing healthy young children. So was it? Was it the right audience and the right message? You sent it to the right guy that was going to care about that story. Is that what you think happened? Yeah, I believe it was God's Providence.

Truly, I believe it was God's Providence because so it was only in like mid-May, like May 10th, 11th that he responded to my e-mail. And it turned out that the story was released on May 16th, 2023. I had no idea at the time, but the Texas Senate was voting on a bill, SB14, which was going to ban these interventions on children, right?

So a day after our story came out, in a bill that was passed with bipartisan support, the conduct that we had exposed that the hospital was lying about became illegal in the state of Texas. And partially in response to our story coming out the day before, because this was a bill that was passed with bipartisan support, they were Democrats who voted in favor of it because they didn't know that this was happening in

their districts. But our story showed that it was definitively happening in their areas. So have you ever had an example in your life that was such an obvious to you, or a moment of God's Providence where just the the the circumstances lined up so truly that there was no other way for you to explain it to yourself?

Yeah, So this whole story with me blowing the whistle, there's been so many instances of God's Providence that I believe the whole from beginning to end that that God's hand has been guiding it. Because, you know, I'll kind of get into this later in the story. But there were so many times where we were going to give up, where we were completely broke, where we had, we were completely desperate and we had nothing else to do. And we were going to be like, you know what, we're done.

We have to give this up. And then at the last possible minute, something happens to get us through that moment. But that that day when the story came out and then the law was passed a day after, yeah, that was one of those moments. That was definitely one of those moments where I it was I, I thoroughly believed that it was God's hand who is guiding us. Did you have moments when you were doubting reaching out to a journalist that even telling people about this was the right

thing to do? Yeah, well, 'cause I had given up. So I had tried reaching out to journalists from January to April, right? And then there was something I saw in May, like in April, May, that I was like, I have to reach out to journalists. It was too crazy. And I, you know, it's kind of in the weeds. I haven't really talked about this, but it was something called an Oregon inventory,

right? Where in the TCH medical records the most important demographic information was like the patient's name, their code status, like if you do CPR on them, like the family address, like the the contact information, which is critical if you have a sick kid and you have to contact the family. That demographic information, which is usually in the top left hand corner of the patient's chart was replaced with something called the gender and

Sexual Identity Smart form. So what this is, is that this is like an intake form for kids in the hospital where they're asked about their gender identity and they can, you know, this is like, this is crazy. This from the Human Rights Council, right? This was initiated by the Human Rights Council as part of their, you know, their human rights score, whatever their the corporate index is for an Epic healthcare system, which is the EMR was the one who was

integrating this. So TCH had integrated this dystopian smart form into their medical records. So yeah, they would ask him, like, what's your gender identity for a kid who's like, five years old, six years old? Then they would have like, an organ inventory. It was actually called organ inventory. And the whole point would be to, you know, ask the children, what organs have you had surgically removed or altered?

Like, you know, did you have your penis removed or your breasts removed or your uterus removed? So this is part of like, from what I perceived, the fact that it had replaced the most important demographic information. This was part of the intake form. And it's like, Oh my God. Like he. So I had what? Yeah, yeah. And I just, I kind of stumbled upon it by accident, you know? OK, so so people understand a normal hospital intake, which you've done a bunch of, and I've

got a little bit of experience. It usually is like, hi, what's your name? Do you have insurance or, you know, somewhere we're going to bill, you know, do you have a DNR on file? Exactly. If something happens to you, do you have someone who would make your medical decisions? You know, like critical things that we needed to know right now in the first few seconds of meeting you? Something bad's going on. Yeah, and that's what goes in the top left hand corner.

But that was replaced by the gender and sexual identity smart form, which is like, holy crap. Man, why do you think they did that? What like what would what would make somebody do that if you had to speculate? So it's sick. It's absolutely sick. Because to ask a child about an organ inventory is like the most dystopian thing I could have ever imagined. Like, you know, when I talked to my colleagues about this, they were, I was like, hey, man, like click on this part of the chart.

This is crazy. Look. And my colleagues, it was the thing that shocked them the most. They were like, wait, this is where the most important demographic information is like their DNR status, like their code status. But this is where like there's the gender and sexual identity. Smart form is not like holy crap man. Did they? I think the same thing that you did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, of course, you know, like not. Everybody's going to do something.

But they thought that this was a radical move. I. Mean this was hard to believe. I mean people didn't believe it unless I showed it to them. They were like, because it wasn't only TCH, this was every epic system in the country, right? Epic is a like a records keeping system. Yeah, Epic. So Epic is the largest electronic medical record system in the entire country. Like the biggest one, right? Is there any OK? Is there any innocent reason that they could have done this?

Oh, no, no, I mean, well, they would say for them it's innocent, like to ask a kid about their sexual identity when they're like six years old. But no, no, I it's this is sick, right? Because this is a medical chart,

right? And if you put a different sex in that form, that changes it on their medical chart, which is like critically important to know for a surgeon, because if you're going to take someone for surgery, you have to know if it's a male or a female because you have to do a pregnancy test. You have to make sure that there's certain anatomy like you might encounter when you're opening someone's abdomen,

right? Like a uterus or ovaries, you know, so if. You were getting into a surgical suite and you've got a emergency patient who's non verbal and they are improperly identified. You've prepped and you go in and you're expecting like a nine year old or a 10 year old girl for an abdominal surgery and it's a nine year old boy. It's marked improperly. What would that do for you?

Well, you know, it's, it's hard to express the level of kind of, it throws you into a place of like being out at sea where you're lost, right? Where like everything you thought you're like your, your decision making is now called into question because such a critical detail is now completely different, right? Like, of course, you kind of do your job and make sure everything is safe.

But like, it's terrifying to think that I would ever be in that situation because it's like such a change in the template. And in surgery, it's important that like you make decisions based off like known information. And the two things we always report in surgery is age and sex. You know, 61 year old male, 22 year old female, it's always age and sex. If one of those things is different than what you thought, it throws you into a loop, right?

That's not safe. And you can get into if, if you get too far into it, you can mistake an ovary for an Abscess. I mean, you would have to really get far into it. Like, you know, that'd be a big problem. Sure, like medical mishaps. How many? How many medical mishaps? Surgical slash malpractice cases, You know, wrong amputations. How many of those happen a year in the United States?

In terms of like the critical failures of like wrong site surgeries, they happen not that often, but they happen, yeah. Because I think everybody's heard like that when we know people put markings, it's Sharpies, it's tape. Like, there's a lot of things that go into not having that kind of screw up, yeah. It's easy for things to go wrong when information is improperly presented to the doctor or the surgeon. That's when things go wrong.

It's when things are. So it's like, especially in kids hospital, this is critically important, right? This is like the most critical information and it was being manipulated by ideology. And these are the people, you know, correct me if I'm wrong here, but the children, they are going to have the smallest like obvious physiological differences when you're looking. They don't have second, you know, secondary sex characteristics. So it may not be nearly as obvious.

They may not even have hair of the same length or long enough. Like they may not present even just because their age, they may not develop things that we would normally associate with male and female sort of patterns. Yeah, yeah. And that's that's important thing too, is like in order to properly identify the anatomy, right? Like you have to go in understanding the Physiology you're operating on because that serves as a a map of the area

that you're going into, right? Just like if you go into a city, right? Like you want a map of that city. If you go into a Chicago, you don't want a map of Milwaukee, right? If you do, you might run into some problems like if you're familiar with both, right, like Chicago and Milwaukee, you probably navigated. But like if you're, if it's an emergency, right, then like that's when things can go wrong.

Sure. All right, let's talk about, I have to imagine that your wife and you were having some kind of a conversation about how you go forward with this. What? What were those conversations like? Yeah, we had a lot of conversations because we went through the whole process together. It was my wife who had found the statement from TCH in March of 2022. Because I came home one day right in like mid 2022.

And I was like, hey, like someone told me that they were implanting these puberty blocking device in this 11 year old kid and that this kid was positive. It was a girl positive. They wanted to have more surgery, that they never wanted to have children, that multiple family members were transgender. And it's like, whoa, major red flags there. But the day that person had had that note written, you know, outlining all that information was a day the child had surgery, right?

So like, when all the red flags are there, they're still taking a surgery, you know? So I tell my wife about these things and other things I saw over the next couple of weeks. And that's when she started looking into it, too. Because both of us didn't even know that there was a transgender program at Texas Children's Hospital. We didn't believe it, right? So she looked it up and found it. And she told me both of us were like, no, it's like, can't be true.

But then as time progressed and January 2023 was critical date where there was the grand rounds lecture, but then also a Zoom conference where like 150 medical students at Baylor College of Medicine had a Zoom conference called Gender Affirming Care in Minors, right? And we're like, this has to be a joke. No way this is possible. And it had a bunch of people who were in the transgender program

at TCH. So we recorded that Zoom conference, which was part of the story that was initially released in Rufo's original reporting, where they talked specifically how they were concealing everything from, like, state authorities, how they wouldn't give parents a hard copy of the notes because that would, like, threaten, you

know, them being exposed. And my wife and I were talking about it and we knew that it was the right thing for us to do because like I, I couldn't live with myself if I, I knew this was happening and I didn't do anything about it, right? I couldn't look at myself in the mirror, especially because we just got married a few months before, right, in August of 2022. And like, we were going to bring

a kid into this world. And we did, you know, we were talking about her earlier and like, what kind of world are we going to bring her into if I just sit by and let this this, this egregious, you know, ethical violation of the world's biggest Children's Hospital just allowed to go, you know,

completely under the radar. Like I had to do something about it. Sometimes I think people think it sounds fantastical to have a conversation like that where you're like, you know, how are we going to look our daughter in the eye? Was that something you guys really had that conversation where you just said, what are we going to do when she's older? Explicitly, yeah. No, no, I kept a journal at the time right after COVID started.

I kept adrenaline because I knew things were getting very crazy. So I have like, you know, I, I like to read it, you know, like my old entries because I see how like everything changed over time because my whole world had turned upside down, right? Like, I see the people I once respected turn into like these monsters, right, who are letting people die and not saying anything about it. And like, we're just supposed to sit there like nothing is happening.

That's crazy. And like, I wrote all this down. And, And so like in the journal, but also in our conversations, yes, we had said we cannot live with each other or we cannot live with ourselves. We cannot bring our child into this world if we don't do this. That is what we said to each other, because that is what was true. What kind of dangers did you guys see? She's got a background in law, obviously, so that's worth explaining. She's a federal prosecutor.

She works Department of Justice. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, she had just gotten hired at the time She went to, like, Columbia Law School in Georgetown. She's brilliant. I mean, she's not very proud of her alma mater. You know, it's like a communist training camp. Granted. How did she even come out of that? Because that's one thing. I hear people talking about going to law school today. And I've actually had friends say, hey, I think I want to go to law school and they're conservatives.

How did she survive going through that? And was she quiet? Was she strong willed still or? Yeah, yeah. So both of us, you know, kind of went through our own transitions because both of us were kind of like your typical, you know, kind of run in the middle libs, you know, like because that's the water we swam in growing up. It's the social milieu is geared towards being a liberal.

But of course, like both of us in our early 20s, mid 20s, we kind of gradually start opening our eyes and, you know, moving towards the conservative side. So even when she was at Columbia, she was in Columbia in 2016 when they had the full meltdown during Trump's first inauguration, when they all went on strike and said we can't take our finals. Like she was there. And yeah, she said like, you know, she was, she was cautiously outspoken in small circles, just like many of us were.

And which we realized was this was the the fault, like the cause of our ultimate downfall because because all of us were so quiet, we had led to our own destruction, you know? What do you think? What do you think made you turn a corner? What what made you say like, hey, you know what? Maybe some of these Lib ideas are not for me. It was Israel when I was in my early 20s, because my family's from Israel, right? So it's like, you know, I was kind of your basic liberal guy,

right? But then I saw how the media was lying about it Was one of the intifadas, one of the conflicts in the early 20 tens. I think it was like 22,010 or 2011 where you had one of the the escalations. You have missiles go back and forth. And I saw how it was being reported and I saw like, oh, man, like none of this is true, right?

It's like, Oh yeah, like 3 Palestinians killed, you know, in altercation when it was like 3 suicide bombers were killed by the IDF when they were trying to run into like a kindergarten, you know. So it's. It's hard to see something like that and then not realize what the propaganda is. So that that kind of made you start questioning, is that right?

Yeah, yeah, slowly over time. But even after I became like a conservative, I was still kind of like, you're running the mill, like Bush, Cheney, like conservative, right. I was like where? You now hold on. Wait. Where are you now? Oh, I'm, I'm like, I'm like, I guess you could say like ultra MAGA, you know, I'm like, I'm like to the right of Cash Patel, you know? Yeah, that's great. Yeah, yeah. You're. So, OK, you've gone into the Attila the Hunt camp.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well within the Attila, the Hunt camp. OK, let me let me float a couple of conquer Mexico all the way down to the Panama Canal. Yay or. Nay, I would say hard nay because just just in terms of logistics. Do you think they all need to be Americans? If they want to be Americans, make them all Americans. Are you in there? OK? My wife is there. I'm just I'm just asking. Is it? Yeah. From. I had a recovering Lib go that route, so I just wanted to see how far.

OK. You got some ways to go then. Yeah, 'cause I, I think that the Mexican travelling, right, Yeah, 'cause I, I actually, you know, I was reading about the Mexican Revolution in the early 1900s and you know, how, how they had fought for, you know, independence and, and they had undergone multiple revolutions. And, you know, these are people

who have a history. They deserve their own country and but we, you know, we also deserve if they're messing with our border that we have to exact revenge on them, you know, in whatever way possible to secure our borders. So it's pretty balanced. I'm just saying, oh, we'll have you talk to my wife. She'll convince you. I don't know why. I don't know why she thinks that way. She just told me that years ago. And I and I went, oh, oh, dear Lord, what have we done?

That was right about the time she was asking me if Michelle Obama was a man and I was. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's that's a open, open debate. Open debate, Yeah, Yeah, we had that conversation tonight actually about Alex Jones and. Yeah. She she said Hulu and Alex Jones may have radicalized. Her, which makes me crack up, yeah. OK, So you guys have this discussion. Your wife's a prosecutor, a brilliant lawyer, went has a great pedigree. She had to see some danger

there. Yeah. Well, you know, actually, no, she didn't see any danger because. So when we finally got in touch with Brufo in May, it was clear it like, so I worked at the hospital, I was doing surgery there. All the information I was releasing to Rufo, all the redacted patient information was after it was redacted, de identified patient information. This is something that is like a part of like the medical profession, like in journals, in medical journals, right? In medical conferences.

This is like what you include in like this is it goes from private health information to once it's redacted to de identified information so and therefore compliant with the law take. An example, if you could, can you give it a? Because this is obviously like a real process that people go through all the time to be able to write journals and studies and so on, right? So for example like you go to. Talk about me specifically. OK, So if you want to you know specific identifiers, I'll give

them to you. And then what would look like redacted? Yeah. So say like I'm doing a surgery on you, right? It's a robotic surgery. I'm taking out your gallbladder and I have a video of your surgery, right in the video it has your name, your birthday and your MRN number, right. It was a very interesting case. You had abnormal anatomy because you had abnormal anatomy, it's pertinent to present at a surgical conference, right? I have to you know, it's then

you was. It hyper muscular physique is that. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hyper muscular gallbladder, right. You can de identify this information right and present it at a conference. So you're going to say 43 year old male unusual Physiology, cut off that piece and what else would be with it? Yeah, a 40, yeah. And and I I don't even say like the age, it's like a male in its 40s, right? Yeah. So at that point it becomes de

identified, right. But Even so, like in the case of of that surgery, like I would have to get your consent first, right? But in this case, this was like the basic information like basic like like schedules like things like that that didn't have any private health information. This was like hospital data about what interventions they were doing so because. Identifying. Even if you had it, you wouldn't be able to ID who the person was because it's universal. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. So this is information that's included in like when they give reports to like the CDC or the NIH, right? They give de identified patient information to these institutions in order to do like, you know, analysis of like which diseases are present, you know, like in certain populations, right? This like de identified patient information, right? It goes from private health information to de identified, which is like a legal thing. And my wife saw that and it's

like. Is that something you train how to do in medical school? If you wanted to write or do studies, you learn how to do that. All the time. All the time. Yeah. So this is like and for me it's. Like, see this being like a, like a, like a virtual training that you're getting slideshow presentations and clicking off on every year or something like that, Yeah. Yeah. It's like what constitutes private health information versus non private health

information, right. Like if it, if it's like a person's surgery, like very specific for that person, you have to get their consent beforehand. If it's basic data, right, like hospital data that everyone has access to, no, you don't have to get that person's consent beforehand because it doesn't have any private health information like that's unique for that person.

Whereas in the surgery, like in your case, it has the kind of individualized description of your surgery that's a little bit different, you know, So it's like you have different levels for different levels of data. And for different releases for purposes things like that, yeah. Yeah. OK. In in this case too, part of HIPAA, there's a whistle blower statute.

If a hospital is participating in misconduct and especially if there are legal ramifications, which as I mentioned before, the hospital had acknowledged themselves. They said they were shutting this down because of potential criminal ramifications, right? So the hospital's still doing what they acknowledge themselves as potentially criminal. I have an obligation to report that I can't do it to the hospital because they're the ones who are complicit.

I can't do it to I, we actually tried reaching out to the attorney general's office, you know, that was going to be part of trial. So we kind of held that detail back. We were going to have them testify because I was a like a whistle blower for the A G's office. What is what is the pathway? So in federal service, the way I went, there's like a, a prescriptive pathway that says you must go to one of the following appropriate reporting authorities. What does that look like, if any?

Yeah. So in, in medicine, the the pathway for reporting as a whistleblower is the pathway for making sure you get fired. Yeah. So like the pathway they have is like if you report to them, they'll fire you. Yeah. So that that and everyone knows that, right. Like the the pathway for medical whistleblowers is the pathway to get fired. So you know. What you tell your supervisor in the hospital. Yeah, then they fire you. Yeah. And then they fired you. They they fixed the problem.

Yeah, exactly. So it's like, of course we're not going to pursue that route because that's like a very bad route. Is that theoretically protected? Is there some sort of legal statutory protection with no. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, theoretically it's protected, but that didn't stop TCH from firing Vanessa Cibitch, the other TCH whistleblower. She still. Yeah, I mean she. And is there any punishment other than like a civil penalty later? Is there any criminal penalty for them doing so?

Yes, there is. Yeah. For for firing whistleblowers, there is a major. That's a major. Deal. Yeah. Is anyone picking up her case to to push that? Yeah, Yeah, very good. OK. So you chose not to do the route that is prescribed because that was a clear failure route for you in your mind. So you've decided that if you go the route that is prescribed by law, you're going to get fired and it doesn't go anywhere anyway.

And did you have any other backup plan other than reach out to journalists that you followed? Yeah. So that's when we reached out to the Attorney General's office and you know, Grant, they were in kind of disarray because of the impeachment issue. I think that was kind of in the beginning process. That's when Ken Paxton was being impeached by the by the Texas Legislature. Yeah, yeah, cuz.

So the the day the story came out on May 16th, 2023, it was a couple of days after that that the AG announced his investigation into the hospital and then he was impeached. Perfect. Yeah, yeah. Do we think those were related? I think so. I think it was part of it because the medical lobby and especially in Houston, right, Texas is oil and medicine. The Texas Medical Center is one of the most powerful lobbies in the state of Texas. So I I think that there's a good

chance of playing a role. Interesting. OK. So AG's office, what was the reception there? You said they were in disarray. Yeah. So we tried calling a couple times but they didn't answer. You know, that was, that was the ideal situation for us because my wife called, right? She left a message, multiple messages, and then we just didn't get a response. And then that's when we reached out to Rufo. What did that first contact

sound like? So it was kind of, it was with one of the people who was working for Rufo kind of like a like a accessory role, you know, just to make sure that I wasn't some crazy person who was kind of a telling like ABS story. So we went through like a verification process, like a very thorough verification process. And that's when, you know, maybe a day or two go by verifying the

veracity of the story. And then we go through a process of making sure that the information was correct, that this was indeed happening and that there wasn't like something else where the hospital actually said, oh, no, we are restarting the program, right? Because, you know, that's one thing that I always kind of thought in the back of my mind, like maybe they said they restarted somewhere, but like, you know, they went through it, their lawyers went through it to

make sure everything was kosher. And once they did, then it was released. What was the first thing that happened when the story went live? First of all, how did you feel when the story went live? You know, I was so busy with residency that like in my little world, everything was was like the same. No one even knew the story came out and we were working in Texas Children's Hospital at the time. How long did it take for that

storm to hit the hospital? It it didn't no like like, you know, in terms of like the media bubble, it didn't hit the hospital. No, as crazy as that may sound, no one in my like immediate sphere like had known about the story. Like on the ground, like the residents, the doctors, no one knew about the story. No one and but in the news like so in my little world, it was like you had this. It was like an explosion, but like everything outside was completely normal.

But in in the world of like Christopher Ruffo and the news, this thing is like blowing up right, because it's all over the news. He's going on Laura Ingraham and I'm still, I'm just the anonymous source for the story. And then the law gets passed the very next day and it's like, holy crap, Like how? How much crazier can it get? And then another whistle blower comes out a couple days after

that, right. Vanessa Civis, she was anonymous at the time too, but she worked in the clinic at the time and hadn't seen the horrors first hand herself. So she and she saw my story on May 16th, reached out to Rufo in the same way I did, completely anonymously told her side of the story about how like what was happening to these kids and everything that was going on. You know, she was in the clinic

rooms with doctors themselves. And then the AG announces an investigation and then the hospital CEO, Mark Wallace, for the second time in like 1516 months, says he's going to shut down the program in accordance with SB14. And for me, it's like, all right, I achieved my goal as a whistle blower, time to get back to my regular life. That was it, it was over. So then everything kind of goes quiet for the next 4 weeks. And so you had four weeks of saying, hey, we did the right thing.

What was the discussion you had with your wife after that? Yeah, it's over. We won. Let's and you know, it was the last four weeks of my surgical residency. So like, you know, we had, I had a job in a small town outside of Dallas. We're going to move out there. We were looking so forward to, you know, kind of starting this, this next phase of our life. And so we were like looking forward to all that and kind of, we're going to put this all behind us and be over with it.

And that was it. And we're going to go on our honeymoon because we hadn't gone on our honeymoon because, like, the day after my wedding, my front tooth came out. Yeah. And it came out again later in a story, like a day before I did my first interview with Tucker Carlson. Yeah. Which was, like, the worst time. I had to go to like some strip mall dentist to have it glued back on. God has a sense of humor for us, I feel like.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you guys did a, you did a like a the high 5 good guys win like let's go get pizza kind of thing and we're going to go move into our new life and let's see what happens in the next phase and. And that was it and. Then then the music changed because obviously that was not it. Yeah, so it was the day of my graduation from surgical training, June 23rd, 2023, One of the most important days of my life, right? You work your entire life for

this one moment, right? Like, you know, 9100 hour weeks for years, right? You sacrifice so much to get to that point where you're graduating that like the day you graduate is monumental. So it's a Friday and my family's in town. I'm getting ready for the ceremony later that evening. And then, you know, a couple hours before the ceremony, you get aggressive, knock on the

door. And you know, I'm wearing like a dumb like my, it was like one of my favorite color written house T-shirts and like some dumb shorts from college. And I answer the door and standing outside, we're two armed federal agents with HHS. And in that moment, I just kind

of freaked out. But like, you know, that kind of primitive part of, you know, my lizard brain knew exactly what was going on, that they were there because of the Biden regime, that they knew it was me who blew the whistle, and they were there to exact their revenge. So, you know, of course, I kind of freak out in the moment. And, like, against everyone's best advice, I invite them in and we sit down. They're right. Yeah. It's much easier said than done, I'll tell you that. It is.

And look, it's really important. Maybe we can dwell on this for a minute. What is the what is the physiological response and what is the psychological Dr. that you think brings people to talk to a federal agent knocking on their door? Oh, I'm I'm telling I and I understand so well because it happened twice, right?

So the first time it's like you're, it's sheer panic where one second you're living in one world and then the next, next second you're like, holy crap, I have federal agents coming to my door. Like, you know, the extent of my criminal record is like detention in the 4th grade. You know, like what's going on, right? I'm like, we're gonna. Get you to admit to that.

Yeah, yeah. And so it's like like I'm like exceptionally law abiding citizen and then now federal agents are at my door and this and like I had exposed something that became illegal the very next day. Like, what the hell is going on? So you freak out and the moment you freak out, so the in terms of physiological response, you start sweating, your heart rate goes up, your vision gets constrained, right? Your sphincters get a little loose, right? You might crap your pants.

I didn't crap my pants, but you know, I I will not say I was not close to so you know, just a. Full, sympathetic, nervous. Response exactly. Yeah, so, but I knew what they were there for. But thank God, my wife is a brilliant attorney, right? So I invite them in. We sit down, exchange a little small talk, right? My dog's barking, but they pet my dog. They're cool, right? So they said, hey, you know, is it OK if we set up for an interview?

And I'm like, oh, I guess so. So they start sending up a tripod on my my kitchen table, but they're kind of fumbling around with it. They're like not doing it too well, so. Do you think they were also nervous? No, no, they seem cool. They were like they were, they seem very reassured, like this dude is toy screwed. Like we, you know, he fell for it. He let us in like he's, you know, he's done for, right. So that's when my wife came out because she was getting ready for the graduation.

She comes out and she sits down and, you know, she introduces herself. And then we look at each other. And then we knew that, like, we had to go back to, you know, have a private word in our bedroom. So we did. And she said, you know, you, we should not speak with these people without an attorney being present. And I say, Andrea, you're right, good idea. So we go back out there.

We sit down, and then I tell them, you know, I'm not going to speak with you guys without an attorney present. And they say, OK. And then they leave. But before they leave, they hand me a target letter informing me that I'm a potential target of a criminal investigation. And the five minutes after that door opened, the door closes and they're gone. And my wife and I knew that like our lives from then on out was going to be completely different. And we completely freaked out in

that moment, right? We kind of sit there for a minute and we're like, man, like what do we do? You know, So what I, you know, both of us are non-smokers. But I thought, man, I really need a cigarette, you know? So I go out, I buy a pack of cigarettes. Did you really? Yeah. And then I come back and have you. Ever been a smoker? Not really like whenever I drank in college, but like not really, no. OK, but you've had a cigarette. It's not the first cigarette.

You had No, this is not so. It's like I, I thought to myself, like man, like this. It seemed like the right thing to do was like smoke a cigarette, you know? Is there a Is there a physiological need for the nicotine? Does it do something specific? Well, I think it because it was like, so when I got back, right, both of us were just infuriated by by these people showing up on the day of my graduation. It was like a sense of defiance, right in the first moment we freaked out, right?

We called Rufo and we let him know and he's like, all right, I'm going to put you in contact with like an attorney. So then my wife gets on the phone with a couple of attorneys. She starts talking to him, and I run out and get cigarettes, right? So then when I get back, it's like, all right, we kind of had

a plan by that point. So then we're like, all right, well, we're going to fight back because we said like, if we're going to pursue this story, like, we're going to do it like, like, if this is this something I'm willing to die for? And the answer was yes, right? And that seems hyperbolic, but it's not right because the whole time this had to be something I was willing to go to prison for, something I was willing to die for. And it was.

So we made that we had that discussion beforehand so we knew what the right answer was, right? So you know how do? You How do you think that you came to be so convicted about this particular topic?

Because it was what happened during COVID, seeing the destruction every single day during COVID had radicalized us and radicalized towards like being human beings, like in seeing individuals as like divine individuals, like made in the image of God. And like because people are made in the image of God, we have to treat them accordingly. And during COVID, that was the time that people were treated like animals where they were allowed to die on their own,

right. And I was a party to that, you know, in the guilt of that was horrendous. And like I did everything I could to fight against it during COVID. But like, even for myself, there was I had a limited power to to do to do anything because I was like a lowly resident, right? But like that, it was that that had destroyed me. But in those ashes had now I, I can see it, right? I was reborn into something else, right? Into like someone who saw people

as humans, right? Like I and I couldn't just let this go, right. And my wife couldn't either because I'm like a very easy going person by disposition. But during COVID, I was an angry person, like very, very angry, angry all day, every day. And mostly I was angry at myself because I had allowed myself to be party to what was something that was so manifestly evil, you know.

And so that's that's what what had LED us to that decision, you know, because after seeing so many people die after, you know, especially with the kids too, the the COVID lockdowns, the destruction it had on the kids is something that is unimaginable. You become familiar with the sound the mother makes when you tell her that her kid is dead, because that sound became way more familiar during COVID

because of the lockdowns. You know, there was one girl who we saw who her parents were abusing her so bad she came in with amputated fingers because her parents were were punishing her by putting her hands into a seat, like into a window, like a wall fan, right? And it was on so the fingers

would just get chopped off. So the reason she came in is because, you know, right, Like it was being picked up in school and her fingers were amputated and one of them were being was infected, you know, and of course, this was during the height of the lockdowns. And all this was able to happen because these kids, these kids weren't in school for extended periods of time. Parents lost their jobs, right?

They had gone crazy so. What a crazy view into, you know, I think a lot of people felt like there was a lot of tyranny and maybe there was a lot of, you know, government overreach. I guess the I hadn't even thought about the. I mean. People, you know, like obviously.

What I saw was it's like I saw so many people I would take care of every single day, people who are older and they would, they would suffer alone in this vortex of despair because it wasn't only the physiological disease that killed him. It was the despair of not having their family member there. And when you think about it, the most important time when someone dies is that semi circle of people that forms around the

foot of their bed. And the moment they take their last breath, they see the soul of the person they love the most ascend into, you know, the great beyond into heaven. And you know, the the reassurance of when you die of having your family members there is, is to know that the legacy of what you left and that the people you love will be there around you. And that a part of you will always remain some part in this world. But that was gone for so many people.

And I had to be a part of that. So it's like like every single person that died, I'm talking about warehouses full of people who were dying alone in despair, away from the people they love the most. And when they died, I had to tell their wife, I'm sorry, but your husband has died. And I had to hear the guilt on the wife's, in the wife's voice when she said, you know, like she couldn't be there for it, right? She couldn't be there for the

last couple of weeks. And and how many times did that happen? Hundreds, hundreds of times in my own experience. But also for the kids, you know? That's absolutely brutal. Do you think that have you talked about that with other physicians that carry that around with them? Yeah, well, it's some doctors, because a lot of doctors went along with it. They never acknowledged it because, like, you have two

options, right? You ignore it and go along with it and you suppress those demons or you acknowledge that this is wrong, and it tears you up inside. And for me, it tore me up inside to the point that it was just unbearable, absolutely unbearable. So for me, it's like someone who was a very easygoing disposition. I became just just angry. I mean, I'm talking about visceral anger and at myself, you know, And like, you kind of know me.

Like, you know, facing 10 years in prison, Like, I kind of take it in stride, but like, nothing compares to those days during COVID when every single day I would go into work and I would have to take care of these people who are dying. And I would have to tell their families, no, you can't see your husband who you've been married to for 50 years, 60 years, you know, in, in like. Do you think people will ever tolerate that sort of no again? They shouldn't.

I really hope so because only time will tell. People cannot tolerate it because it was one of the biggest crimes, one of the most severe crimes the medical profession has ever perpetuated. On to the people we are supposed to take care of. And the COVID tyranny had just LED it into the transgender tyranny because it it worked by the same calculus where it was like, you have to have physicians who don't question the underlying assumptions. And that's how it's allowed to proliferate.

You threaten people with the loss of their job and their income and the ability to take care of their family, but in the process you make them party to the crime itself, because by being silent, you're party to it. Yeah, that's, that's profound, Doc, that I mean, it is, I don't know if anybody else is thinking that way in the medical field, but that being complicit, the more you say yes is probably the more you're going to say yes too.

Yeah, and that's The thing is like, you know, by me not doing anything about TCH lying about their transgender program, that was me saying yes, right? And like, I saw what it was doing to me during COVID, right? It was destroying me. It was, it was eating my soul from the inside out, right? And like how, you know, my dad always told me he's like, you're a doctor, you have to take care of your patients. And I saw what he did, you know, how he took care of his

patients. And like, you know, the shame of not honoring my father, right, in his legacy, but also the legacy of the medical profession. How could I ever do that and look myself in the mirror and and, you know, call myself a doctor? Well, the answer is I can't, you know, So that's why like these conversations, like, was I willing to die for this? Yes. Was I willing to go to prison? Yes. Right.

Because it's like when you have the option between the two, two paths, you know, the destruction of your soul, right? The the immolation of your soul, right? Or this other thing where you maybe take on the federal government. The answer is clear.

You take on the federal government and that's what we did because the day the agents came, we chained, smoked a pack of cigarettes, listened to Vietnam War music, and drank like 3 balls of champagne or patio because everything that had culminated up until that point had got us ready for the

fight. And that's what I kind of meant by God's Providence. Because it was only the pain and the suffering of seeing all those people, you know, despair during the previous three years, during COVID that had gotten our souls ready for the fight that was to come. This is very cinematic stuff, but but once you've lived something that extreme, people don't realize, like you start living in a way that feels kind of like you're narrating your own movie. Holy shit, man.

And that's only the beginning, because what happened afterwards was just like totally insane. I mean, if we like and and it gets, it's like when you think one thing can't get crazier, it just gets crazier. And it was just one gradually more severe, like it just got crazier every day until the very end. Yeah, let's. OK, so this is a good time. We're going to take a quick breather with that cinematic moment. We'll break for sponsor, and then we're going to come back.

And what we're going to say is rapid fire, going down the rabbit hole of insanity. What happens when you decide to pick a fight with the federal government? What do you say? We'll take a quick breather here. And just to remind you that this episode is brought to you by my friends at Blackout Coffee.

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I do it with heavy cream. That's just how I roll. I don't apologize. You don't need to either. Block out coffee.com/kyle. Let's get back into our conversation here. You're about to go down the rabbit hole. Let's just dive in through the manhole cover and see what happens next. OK, so the agents leave you chain smoked some cigarettes.

Yeah, I go to my graduation later that evening and, you know, like we celebrate with all the people I trained with and my parents and, you know, we have a great time. And of course, like that, that kind of feeling of defiance really lasts, you know, for that moment in time. It's, excuse me, much more difficult the next day, right, where you realize, like, holy crap, like this is a big deal. Like, we're really going up against something big.

But we got in touch with our attorney, Marcella Burke with by Christopher Ruffo. And she's like like a Bible thumping rosary in one hand, middle finger in the other, bulldog of an attorney, hardcore Catholic, like she's like our guardian Angel. And she was able to assemble like a brilliant legal team. It was her, Jeff Hall, who is a former federal prosecutor, and then Mark Lytle, who is representing the IRS whistleblowers in the Hunter

Biden IRS case. And I had seen him on Fox News the week before and that Monday, right? I'm on the phone with Marcella Burke, Jeff Hall and Mark Lydell. And I'm like, man, like, all right, this is a good legal team, you know, So we signed an engagement letter with them. And over the next couple of months, that's when things got really hairy in multiple different ways. So this it was when my attorneys first got in contact with the prosecutor.

Her name is Tina Ansari. She's a, a USA in the Southern District of Texas, which is the same position as my wife, the the same position my wife had just been hired for, but in the Northern District of Texas. So you know, the target letter said they wanted to meet with me like July 7th. So my attorneys reach out and say, OK, we're representing Dr. Heim, let's meet, let's talk. So July 7th comes by, right? And they came June 23rd. So July 7th comes by, no answer,

right? A couple more weeks go by, a couple more, you know, meetings, No answer. She cancels, right? Very like shaky, very questionable. So finally get in touch with this attorney, Tina Ansari, and all of what I'm about to say is written in a letter to Congress because my, it was so shocking. My attorneys wrote a letter to Jim Jordan in the weaponization

subcommittee, right? So in that first call, she admits to my attorneys that she sent agents to my home without ever reviewing the evidence beforehand. Right. Wait, what? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So she sent agents to my home like on the day of my graduation. She's the one. You did it though. Yeah, she never reviewed the evidence before doing it. What was the allegation that sent them there? She wasn't quite sure. She had to like, talk to the agents. And then she's like, oh, it's

HIPAA. But my attorneys are like, well, what do you mean HIPAA? And she's like, oh, all right, let me call you back. And it was very unprofessional. And it was like very clear. She had no idea what this story was like, what the investigation was about, right? But she was agent then. So it was her. And then Hamdani, because we would later find out that. And let me back up Hamdani Alamdar.

Hamdani is a politically appointed US Attorney of the Southern District of Texas. So each state is broken up into federal districts. In charge of each district is AUS attorney who's appointed by the president. So Alamdar Hamdani is the Biden appointed US Attorney, so of course some political operative. And as we would later find out, Tina Ansari is also a political operative.

So they had bypassed all of the deputies between the US attorney and the AUSA in order to bring this case only themselves, which is kind of like General Patton, you know, making his war strategy with like, a private first class or something, you know, very atypical for like, everyone in the middle to be cut out. So it was being driven by Hamdani, Tina Ansari, the AUSA. But then also my belief is from DC, right? So we find out that this lady is has no idea what this case is about.

She thinks I released names. I obviously did not release names. But then she also, you know, after demonstrating a complete lack of understanding about what this case is about, she did enough research to find out my wife had just been hired as a assistant US attorney in the Northern District of Texas and was undergoing a background check. And she says, well, you know, I'm surprised Andrea had interfered with this investigation, you know, because I understand she's undergoing a

background check. I'm not going to bring this up with the the FBI unless she continues to become difficult. So in the first call, she she admitted that she sent agents to my home without ever reviewing the evidence. But also she threatened my wife. Yeah. OK, your resolve is hardened or loosened. So once you threaten my wife, game on. There was no going back, right? It's like you threaten my wife.

That's a problem, major problem. So after that point, we the calls only got crazier and crazier, right? Where she says, you know, this is over the next couple of months where she's saying that she's in contact with the transgender families. These are the real victims. Also, the real victims are the doctors in the hospital. And most importantly, she says that she's going to bring my case to a jury trial, even on a technicality, even if she's sure

she's going to lose, right? Which means that, like, her investigation at this point before the indictment is not about justice. This is all about like, destruction, right? It's all about weaponization. Yeah, it sounds like a crusade. Yeah, yeah. It, it was like, like, like a like a train rolling downhill without brake pads. Like this was something that was going to continue on no matter what.

And like, even after my attorneys like, you know, express like, hey, well, no names were released. How could this be a HIPAA violation? She didn't. She was unwilling to see it. And of course, because this was a politically motivated case. So it was during this last, you know, it was the last conversation where she told me she was going to take me a trial even if she was sure she was going to lose.

That was like the last straw. That was in October of 2023, four months after the agents first came. And that was like the first couple of weeks I started my job as a general surgeon after my training, right? And by that point too, we were completely broke because we were paying our attorneys, right? And like the amount of research that has to go into this hundreds of thousands of dollars. So we have like $2000 to my name, you know, like I had just started my new job.

And at that point, it's like this prosecutor, she's going to criminally indict me. She's going to send me to prison for a decade. And like, I'm still anonymous at the time because the last thing I want to do is take this story public. So what was your? What was your student loan debt looking like for for going through medical school or did you have any? So luckily I didn't have any because yeah, you know, that was pretty. Rare, right? Yeah, because in Florida it was pretty affordable.

It was affordable. So the reason I bring that up, there seems to be a almost universal theme that the people that have decided my little crew of suspendables, that the folks that have stepped up and said I'm willing to take this fight on, they seem to be more or less financially solvent. And I don't know why that's a common thread, but it seems like a like a like a mindset of responsibility.

Yeah, helps you do that. And if you don't owe debts, you can you can do things that other people maybe won't do or can't do. And. I, I think that's, that's probably a good point because like for example, for me, you know, for, for me, my wife, at that time, we didn't have any debts. We had no money, but we didn't have any debt, right. So I, yeah, I think that's, that's probably a good point.

You know, something that's kind of profound because it's like, yeah, it's, it's, it's a big deal. You know, well, it's a, it's an argument in favor of financial responsibility because it gives you the power to do the thing that you're supposed to do, I think. Yeah. I think so. We'll have to reflect on this at another time. Maybe we'll get a panel together and talk about financial responsibility and the ability to blow the whistle. Yeah, yeah, Yeah. No, I could see that.

But so it was at that point in October 2023, right, that it was like, all right, well, I have to take the story public because if I don't like the DOJ is going to crush me, I'm going to be crushed by an avalanche propaganda, right? And then like, no one's going to hear the truth of what really happened. So over the next couple of months, we start getting ready, right? So we decided in October of 2023, I'm going to take the story public. What?

Was that conversation or what were the what was the final moment where you said this is where it's go time, you got to be loud? So of course it's like another pack of cigarettes, you know, chain smoke. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's terrible. Yeah, I know, I know. Yeah. And we, you know, it's like we don't smoke anymore. I mean, it's like it's like situations like this. It's like, of course you kind of need to smoke a cigarettes like

you know it's. I think, I don't know why I think that's so funny because one, maybe it's the the medical background too. And also I've just never had, I've never had an instinct for it. So I just yeah, you know, a lot of the guys that would throw a dip in though when something was getting, you know, kind of heavy. So I get it. I've seen. It Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I, I used to dip. That was like, my thing was like chewing tobacco. Of course. Yeah. So, you know, we, we decide,

right? That conversation was tense. Oh my God, that I'm just thinking back just brings back like memories of horror. I'm telling you, man, sheer horror. Because like, we were on the precipice of like doing the most insane thing you could ever imagine. Because think about it, two people, Andrea and me, we don't have social media. We don't know anyone, right? Both of us just started a job. She just started her job at the Department of Justice.

And her husband, me, is about to take this story public, accusing the DOJ of like, like the worst possible corruption. And like, like, we had zero money. And I thought my job was going to fire me and I was going to lose my license and everything. But like, we were backed into a corner. We had no option, right? Like, so it's like they're putting into this us into this position, right? And we had to do something because at the same point too, there's more to it because we

were broke. The the DOJ was completely corrupt. But also people were writing reviews about me online, right? Malicious reviews accusing me of sexually abusing patients behind closed doors in like patient rooms, right? And I knew that. And the first review came like July 3rd, a week after the agents came on June 23rd. And by the language, right, I could tell that this was an activist.

So over the course of the next couple months, between June and January 2024, right, we did our own investigation. We had subpoenaed WebMD to get the IP address. And by doing that investigation, we had found that the individual who was writing all these reviews was the same person, and it was someone who was in the hospital who was part of this story, like a main person of this story. Has that been exposed? Not yet, Not yet. But but you have some, you have some intentions.

I know. I know who it is, yeah. Yeah. Is there a is there a a legal liability for this person? The session limitations has already passed, but there's, there's, yeah, there's things that can happen. Yeah, got it. So one activist decided to go out and smear you publicly in a place where you're reviewed for. Being from the hospital, I'm talking about from Texas Children's Hospital, right? So, so multiple angles of being attacked, right.

Like my hospital's like, Oh my God, what are these awful reviews? Are you like a sexual like predator? It's like, no, you know, it's like these are fake reviews being posted by activists from this hospital who had released my name, right? And then then the DOJ, right? Everything's corrupt. So it's like you're on this precipice where you're about to do the craziest thing imaginable, like something

that's never been done before. And we're like, whatever we got to do it. We have no other option because we're backed into a corner. So we do it. And we film an interview with Chris Caruffo in November of 2023. And then we knew that with Thanksgiving, Christmas, the New Year's, we were going to release it after, right? So it comes out January 10th, 2024. And you know, I go public and that's when that week was when I first met you, right?

And and that's what, you know, that was very nerve wracking too. It's totally insane, you know? Why was that insane? Because it's like I, I had listened to you before and like, I had heard your story. Like, like you were one of the people like who hadn't inspired me beforehand. Like there was this whole host of people who had served as my inspirations. Like, holy crap, look at these FBI whistleblowers. Like they're kind of in a similar position to me.

But like, I was actually more concerned for you guys that you guys might get murdered. And you know, that's just honestly what I thought. Because it's like FBI is like a whole different ball game of risk when you're exposing the Biden administration. For me, this was a Texas story. So it's kind of a different threat level for you guys. I was like, legitimately concerned, you know? What it's worth, I was a legitimately concerned originally and then probably about the same way as you.

You start doing the work and you don't have any time to worry about yourself and that you got to just keep busy. I imagine that's the same thing you did. And and plus having like an arsenal of guns and like 10s of thousands of rounds helps too. Yeah, it doesn't solve. It doesn't solve the problem if you've got to sleep right.

But at the end of the day, you can't worry about danger if you're trying to do the right thing and you got to just keep pushing forward, which is kind of I, I imagine what? OK, so you decide to go public. You do the thing. Chris Ruffo airs the interview. What was the first response you got during that week? So it was. It was, you know, maybe the first day complete panic, but then then you kind of get into the groove, right? Like I just got back to surgery, right?

And, and I luckily I work in a place that is very supportive, right? An amazing small town and I was, I was truly blessed. And that's another part of God's province, right? It's like somehow before all this happened, I ended up working in like the smallest town and it's like a gem of, of people who are like the, the God fearing brilliant, like, you know, you know, humble, you know, neighborly people who are like the best people in in this

country and. The alternative is you go to a big hospital that's got a big marquee name and there's a big budget behind the department and they all side with the transgender activist. Yeah, And this was, you know, I work in a small County Hospital, right? And, and it's it's a public hospital, but the people there are the best people in the world.

So they stood behind me. And then so the next six months go by, right, where I'm just telling the story, trying to raise enough money to fight the legal battle that I know is eventually coming, right. So let's Fast forward a couple months, right, to June of 2024, a year after, right? The feds initially came, and that's when the indictment came at 7:30 in the, you know, 7:00 in the morning, you know, 3 heavily armed federal agents, US Marshals.

My wife knew one of them because she works at the office, right? And, you know, they show up to my house like I'm a drug kingpin and they hand me a, you know, indictment, 4 felonies that I'm being charged with up to a decade in prison. And, you know, so I can have my arraignment like a week after that, right? The arraignment is where you go in front of a judge and you have to plead not guilty. So I go to Houston, right? And you'll have my legal team

are ready to fight. And at that point, like, you know, we had raised a good amount of money at that point, especially in the days after the indictment. So I go to the arraignment, right? I stand in front of a judge and in that arraignment, the FBI agent Paul Nixon, the guy who was in the video from Vanessa Savage, right? That famous video of the guy in the red shirt who was like a complete asshole, right? He came to that arraignment. He was sitting right behind me,

right? Right behind me and my pregnant wife. And how, how odd is that for an FBI agent? You were an FBI agent to come to a arraignment, right? For like, someone they're investigating. And he sits right behind me like some type of creeper. Like, that's crazy, you know? It's fairly common actually to show up for the initial appearance. People do that. Oh, really? It's more common than you'd think. Yeah. All right. Well, I'll. I'll tell you. They're the one who arrests you.

So for what it's worth, so people can understand the process and how it usually would go down. Usually somebody would come and the indictment would equal either a surrender or an arrest warrant. Then you would be taken into custody, brought in front of a judge. Then you have your initial appearance and the person who brought you in front would

actually be that agent. Then they either turn you over to the marshals or they release you on your own recognizance, whatever is going to happen next. So that that's fairly common. The fact that we're talking about something that is not violent, white collar, sketchy medical question that, you know, they let you drive down there yourself, I assume. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. It's kind of a different animal, but it's not the craziest thing to imagine an FBI agent.

They're just for context. I don't think it's that. Wild. And and that's, that's good to know, right? I don't like it any better. I don't like it any better. But I, I appreciate that to know that it's, it's not that uncommon. It's good to know. But still, he sat right behind me. Very weird, you know, I felt very uncomfortable. I imagine you did, Sure. Yeah, so I plead not guilty, but of course, this isn't a federal

Criminal Court, right? So like everyone else came out in like orange jumpsuit and like handcuffs. So it's like the person before me was like a pedophile. The one before that was like, you know, trafficking like 100 lbs of cocaine. And then it's me, right? Like who's like some fake crime and, you know, no judgement on these other people, right? Like it's just not to say that these people are like less than me or anything. It's just, it's kind of a, it's a crazy like comparison that

like somehow this. Corrupt case, you know, And I think that's what they wanted to show me, right? That like you're going to end up in a prison just like everyone else. Is that what you thought? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That they wanted to make sure it was done that way, right? To scare me, right? So you could see what was coming. Exactly. Yeah, because they were Steve Baker. My friend said the same thing when he was put out there on 4 misdemeanor charges. Yeah. He's like they leg.

Shackled me. They took me out and they sat me next to a meth dealer in a jail cell for four hours so I could get my mind right. Yeah. And and then they read in front of the entire courtroom and there were reporters in there too, right, For these counts for, you know, disclosure for, you know, filing patient, you know, rights and whatever, 10 years in prison, right? The whole point is like the theater of it.

And you know, like, because I know this, right, Because the my attorneys had a conversation in that courtroom that day with Tina Ansari, the late prosecutor had been threatening my wife, who had been threatening me. Super corrupt. The first thing she says to my attorney, Ryan Patrick, who was her old boss, by the way, because Ryan Patrick was the former US attorney under Trump of the Southern District. He was, you know, following him was Hamdani, right?

So, you know, Tina Ansari was this AUSA under Ryan Patrick, who was now representing me, right? The first thing that Tina Ansari says in that courtroom is, are we really going to try this case? The implication being like, why isn't he just plead to something and and get all over with? And it's like, yeah, you're wrong, lady. There's no way in fucking hell I'm going to plead to something. No way, no, no way I would ever do that. So right, the fight's on.

And then after that I love. Your attitude about this because I I empathize with it so much. I feel like it's such people don't get it. Like what drives you like that that got you going. Like they wanted to intimidate you and it changed you the other way. Yeah, because it's like, it's like you see me as such a peasant. Like, like you think that I can just be intimidated into pleading to a crime that never happens. Like, it's like a like a a shame

on my dignity as a man, right. Especially as a future father because my wife was pregnant at the time. Like, if you think you can do this to me, like, no, like I will die before that. That comes, right. And I'll go to jail before that comes. I'll do anything in order to prevent you from getting the satisfaction of beating me, which we ended up winning, right? Turned out, turned out God wins. Yeah. Yeah, Exactly.

Exactly. It's, it's, it's sheer audacity, anger and perseverance and, and like, you know, understanding why you're doing because everything I explained before, like it was like to, to give in, to go, it would be to go back to that person during COVID, right? That perpetual anger that I

could never live with. So, right, we were going to fight back and I was going to do so in a very public way because that was my only way to fight back was to speak publicly to make sure that I was going to be, you know, deluged by an avalanche of propaganda because, you know, every mainstream media source was going to lie about what this case was about, right? So I had to tell my own story. And X was like the most critical thing because without X, there's no way to tell the story.

I mean, and, and you're a part of that, right? Like legally you're a part of that because. You know, that's right. I forgot that's. Really. Yeah, Yeah, that's funny. So to kind of break down the next couple of months, so the DOJ's case completely fell apart over the next couple of months because we fought back and it fell apart in a number of ways.

First of all, their initial indictment said that I had no reason to be a TCH in May, April and May of 2023, right, Even though they had evidence that showed I was rotating and operating there, right? And April, May of 2023, but their indictment was was telling some like completely fake story. So like I knew it was a fake story and we just had to get evidence from TCH right. So we did.

And and you know, we go through this long, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars of legal battle for like in September and October. What ends up happening is, right, the TCH discloses to DOJ. Oh, you know, in actuality, yeah. Doctor Heim was working at TCH in April, May of 2023. He was operating on the day that he requested access. And what they were accusing me of was accessing the medical records without authorization, right? Like I hacked into the system,

right? But that was not true, right? I was working there, but the DOJ's own evidence showed that I was working there. So their first indictment fell apart, right? They had to go back to another grand jury and come up with another indictment. And, you know, they had to, in their emotions, they had to acknowledge that they presented false information to the first grand jury, but they said they didn't do so knowingly. And it's my opinion that that's BS, right?

Because the most critical information, the unsealed evidence from the first grand jury, right, shows in the most explicit way possible that the DOJ was in possession of evidence that showed I was operating and rotating a TCH in April and May of 2023, which is why I requested access in the 1st place. So their first indictment falls apart, right? Big victory, right?

We think, all right, you know, like they have no case against me. In between the 1st and the second indictment, That's when they changed the victims from TCH and his patients to TCH and his physicians, which was the first time in American history that HIPAA was being used not to protect patient privacy, but rather to protect multibillion dollar hospital systems in the academic institutions that protect them or that that work there.

So they had to make a big decision, is that correct, that they were going to change the way that they're going to try to argue and, and, and bring the case? Yeah, my wife is a federal prosecutor, right? She knows how this happens. They had to sit around the conference room and think, all right, how are we going to do this? Are we have we can't prove disclosure. So they took out disclosure because there was never any disclosure, right.

So that's like the criminally actual language in the in HIPAA is disclosure because there's no violation of information if you don't disclose it, right? It's like you can't murder someone unless someones dead right? No, I understand. Yeah, the element. Of the yeah, yeah, yeah. So so like if the person is alive, you can't charge someone with murder. And if the if the information didn't go anywhere except in your eyeballs and into your brain, then who knows so.

Exactly. Yeah, Yeah. Because that's the nature of what a doctor does is you see all this information, most of that information is not your patients. But so they had to figure out, all right, how we're going to do this, right? Well, we can't say patients are the victims because we can't do disclosure. So they took out disclosure, right? And then they changed private health information to just information, right. So, and then they changed TCH and patients to TCH and

physicians. So in all these big changes, it went from, you know, legally actionable language to legally meaningless language. And in the process they changed it to obtained and or disclosed to obtained and or use, right. But use is not a word that's in the HIPAA statute, right? So it goes back to like the murder thing, right? Like you can't charge someone with murder if they didn't die. Use is not part of the criminal statute.

Right. So there's something common here though, and I think This is why weaponization is necessary to to kind of bring into the, the, the fray. A lot of the things that were done under the Biden DOJ involved what I've used the term novel interpretation of a statute. In other words, it's the first time that they've used the statute in a specific way.

The Fisher case, which was decided in the Supreme Court, was one of those where they decided that obstruction of justice could mean something that it had never meant before. It was something he brought up during the Enron, you know, the Enron debacle. And they went after them for, for January 6th. You're another one of these people where they said let's interpret the statute in a way

that we can bring this. And you know, that's a really important point to bring up because my attorney brought this up in the motion to dismiss. For DOJ prosecutors to do that, they have to have it approved by Congress, right? No, that and that's rule like, like if you're going to interpret a criminal statute, a felony statute in a completely novel way, you have to have it approved by Congress that.

Would usually mean that Congress just passes a law that says it Yeah, this is what we. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like it has to go through a formal process of approval. Interesting. So that didn't happen, of course, and that's like a very minor technicality that my attorneys found, but which is huge. But they also had shown that they're in the entire predicate of their case was unconstitutional, right? Like fundamentally unconstitutional what they were doing, which makes it illegal, right?

So, and so the second indictment was changed in a way, right, to where the victims were no longer patients, but TCH and as physicians, those physicians being Baylor College Medicine physicians. And this is where things get really interesting with the lead prosecutor because during the early portion of the case, right in September when things really started ramping up, we find out that the lead prosecutor is practicing law without a license because her license was

suspended. And to practice law in Texas without license is a felony, right? No matter what the reason is. So, so we bring this up to the judge, we say, hey, judge, you know, like this attorney's practicing law without a license, what are you going to do about it? And he's like, no worries. Your, your, your motion for show for show cause is dismissed. He was like, he was completely unconcerned by it, right? Which is like, like, you know, that's when we kind of knew who

this judge was. Like we were starting to understand like his play in this whole thing, right? And and there's kind of more to who this judge is, but we can talk about that later. But so the lead prosecutor, right, just a whole host of misconduct, you know, not only admitting to my attorneys, she was, she sent agents by home without reviewing the evidence, threatening my wife practicing without a license. But then I find out, right?

I find out that her brother owns a big coffee company, the world, the country's largest private label coffee distributor, right? And I hear that like there's some like fishy things about her family and the hospitals, right? And it's just about like conflicts of interest. I, her family, you know, for the record, seem like, you know, honest, hard working people. But like someone kind of led me on to like some things about her family and connections. So I started looking into it,

right? And turns out that her family, right, her brother owns his coffee company who has business, like active business contracts with Harris Health, which is part of the Baylor TCH consortium. It's like, like one of the three legs of the stool, right? Is Harris Health a public entity? You know, her uncle was on the board of TCH. Her aunt is a major TCH and Baylor College Medicine fundraiser. Her brother, the guy with coffee

company. Right after Tina Ansari sent agents to my home, Tina Ansari's brother started attending major fundraisers with the president of TCH, Debbie Sukin, where he was raising like $400,000, like $1,000,000 right in like one night. And so your wife knows that DOJ has very specific conflict of interest rules and they're pretty broad, if, if I recall. Yeah, anything that can be perceived as like a conflict of interest, it's like a relatively

low threshold. Yeah. And then you just, you just beg off and somebody else steps in. Yeah, so the prosecutor who was reinterpreting HIPAA in the first time in American history to make it not about patients to but about powerful, you know, multibillion dollar, you know, medical institutions, TCH and Baylor was the same person whose family stood the most, stood the most to benefit if those powerful institutions were protected.

So, of course, once we make the DOJ aware of these conflicts of interest, she steps away from the case in a motion that was under seal. So she was probably so embarrassed by what was happening that she withdraws from the case under a sealed motion.

For people who don't know what that is, she used the judges like secret like capabilities to like keep things under wraps to withdraw from the case, which is very atypical because there's no reason for a prosecutor to withdraw from the case and to have it sealed. She could very simply just say there she could write up a motion that says there's a conflict of interest that's been uncovered and stepping away. Yeah, yeah. But this conflict of interest was too much, right? Yeah.

And it probably would have. It would have shed light, it sounds like on Yeah, the entire reason why they were bringing the case in the first place. Exactly, which is why everything happened so quick, right? Because what? When was this? This is late 2024. Yeah, this is November 2024. Yeah, yeah. And we were right. And this is election time. This is before the election. Before the election, right? Yeah, right. In the time during the election.

Because we had a big couple weeks with that election and some of the stuff that started happening as I recall. Yeah, yeah. So it was huge. So it was like the first indictment falls apart because the entire premise of their story is a fabrication, right. Then the second indictment falls apart because they charged me with a non existent crime. They use thing as I mentioned, obtain and or use. But they also left a typo in

their indictment. Instead of Subchapter XI, they said sub or instead of Subchapter XI, they wrote Subchapter XL, like extra large, like a Taco Bell order, you know, like, you know, so they didn't even proofread their indictment, you know, so their second, their second indictment falls apart. And then Tina Ansari, you know, just got embarrassed by the judge because she was practicing without a license. She had all these conflicts. And then she steps down from the case, right.

And then at the end of that hearing, Tina Ansari says we will not file another indictment because they wanted the judge to strike the language to just edit it instead of them pursuing a new indictment with a whole new grand jury. So she steps down from the case and then was the other prosecutors, do they just pursue another indictment, right? Like, which essentially breaches their duty of candor to the court because they told everyone they weren't going to get

another indictment, right. But then they got another indictment after the judge refused, you know, their motion. So it was at that point that the same day they got their third indictment was when they filed a motion to gag me, which is when things got really bad, you know, and and they said it was because they couldn't get a fair trial. But like, you know, it's not the the government, right? It's like, and first of all, I can't, how can I influence a jury in one of the biggest

districts in the entire country? And when there's a million things you would do beforehand to to prevent the court from taking away my First Amendment, like, you know, Vor Dyer, right? Like, like with asking, you know, jury people in the jury. Have you ever heard of this person? Right. But they went straight to a gag order. So, you know, that whole thing kind of devolves into a hearing where this. Is about your Twitter account. This is about your social media.

It's the fact that you're out there doing interviews is why they were to gag you. Exactly so me like because at that point the only person to advocate for me was myself. Just by speaking out publicly on Twitter, I was able to mount a legal defense, but also expressed to the public what was happening in taxpayer funded courtrooms, how the how the DOJ was completely corrupted. And then, you know, we had the hearing December 3rd, right, where the DOJ brings in all of

their exhibits. And your tweets were part of those exhibits, right? Where there was a moment where they read one of your tweets about the DOJ being in like a clown car of incompetent midwits and the, the court breaks out in laughter, right? And the DOJ doesn't realize that everyone's laughing at them, right. Yeah. So. But the judge was clutching his pearls like this was the first time he's ever heard of like a a citizen criticizing the DOJ.

He was like, oh, my God, like, how can this person, you know, treat the DOJ like this? It was, it was, it was like it was embarrassing for, you know, just to see this from. My own, from my own knowledge, did they say who I was or they just said Kyle Seraphin, some random guy, Yeah. Did you say Kyle Seraphin? Yeah, that. Yeah, that makes it even funnier. Yeah, yeah, I guess so. I'd known who I was. It would have been even more offensive to them.

Yeah, yeah. But so the judge as a result of that gag order hearing December 3rd after the election, right, he threatens to send me to jail if I continue similar conduct. So he didn't grant the he didn't grant the order. He didn't deny the order. What he did is something called like a prior restraint. This is really important stuff. This is this is Gerardo Boyle, like one O 1.

This is his biggest thing. So let's get really, really specific about it. Prior restraint is what he wanted you to do. Yeah. So prior restraint is like when you limit the expression of, you know, speech before it even happens in a way that is unconstitutional. It's me telling you you need to figure out what my line looks like. Exactly. And don't cross the line then I'm not going to tell you what it is.

Yeah, so he said similar conduct, but he didn't define what similar conduct is. So it's like, yeah, like, so I'll send you to jail if you cross a line that I have not defined. But how am I supposed to know where the line is because you haven't defined it. But if I cross it, the consequences are the most severe. And he knows that by not granting it or denying it, he protects himself from accountability, from a, from appeal, right?

And he also knows we didn't have any money to appeal it, right? He also protects the DOJ from criticism, which is what the ultimate goal was. And by extension, he protects himself from criticism because by me criticizing the DOJ, people are starting to wonder, who is this judge who's like allowing all this corruption to proliferate in his courtroom, right? So, but all that comes at a cost, all that comes at a cost of my constitutional rights, right? Because like we were completely

broke. Any resources we had at which at that point was zero, it was negative $1,000,000 had to go towards a federal trial. We were already in the hole by that point, $1,000,000. And we had at that point raised like $1.2 million. So the case in total was a little bit over $2,000,000, right? So we we, we still owe about 1,000,000, but we knew that. You still do? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So we had to save everything for a for trial, which which we were still planning on going to in February, right? So like for the next month and a half, I was just, I, I had to stay silent. That's why my wife spoke out because my wife was just furious. And Grant, she's still working at the DOJ, she's a federal prosecutor. And she was so upset by what had

happened. And my wife was born, my daughter was born just a couple of months earlier in September, you know, so. My wife speaks out and, and you know, you remember that that was like in, in mid-december. So she's like speaking out on my behalf because like, like speaking out was the only thing I could have possibly done to, to, to defend myself legally. Because how am I going to pay my attorneys? Donations was the only way I could pay my attorneys. How can I tell the truth to

people? Because so my, my wife understood that. So that's when she decided to speak out. But then after Trump got inaugurated January 20th and he signed the EO against the weaponization, that's when behind closed doors, the DOJ was just escalating the case, like January 20th, 21st, 22nd, right? So I'm like, this is too much, right? Like this is in direct contravention of Trump's newly signed executive order and they're escalating this case

behind closed doors. I can no longer stay silent, right? Because ever since that hearing, I, I just shut up because I couldn't risk it, right? We didn't have any resources to do anything. I, I, and, you know, it was, that was the hardest time. I mean, truly, that was the most difficult time. I was back into the place where I was during COVID.

I was just, I was so angry because like, I was now a part of it. I was a part of the corruption that was being imposed on me by the judge because I was, I was the one who was allowing their corruption to proliferate, right? Because they required me, you know, my own compliance in order to make the whole thing seem legitimate, right? And it was after Trump's inauguration and after that EO and after they were escalating this case behind closed doors, I said enough is enough.

Like, this is over. I'm speaking out. And that's when on January 22nd, yeah, I, I think it was January 22nd or 23rd that I said, you know, I wrote a post on acts and I said, you know, I cannot afford to stay silent anymore. This is a kangaroo court, right? That there is nothing we can do legally to fight against this obvious corruption. So I have to speak out publicly, right? Because that's the only thing I can do.

And in response to that, the judge had completely blown his lid because what we were hearing from multiple sources is that he was getting ready to sign a warrant for my arrest for violating a gag order that he had never signed, right? So he was serious about that. He had to be talked down from a ledge, from what we were told, like that happened behind closed

doors. So it was like a Thursday evening, like the 23rd, like the day after I spoke out that, you know, we were being told you might be arrested tomorrow when you go in for surgery in the morning. So make sure, like Andrea has things like ready to be handled like, you know, this is a big deal.

So it was the next morning that, you know, people moved into action and the DOJ, the transition team had issued guidance to the Southern District of Texas to say dismiss this corrupt case with prejudice immediately, right? So then two days after I spoke out, one day after I thought I was going to be sent to jail, the DOJ signs a motion to dismiss my case with prejudice. And then a few hours after, the judge signs the order to dismiss the case with prejudice.

And from that moment, everything's done. What did that feel like? You know, it was like in that moment, it's surreal. You kind of elevate to a different existence. You kind of float, you kind of go into a dream world, right? Like like legitimately, like, you know, things start slowing down, right for a brief moment where you look at your wife, My wife tells me. And then we hug and we kiss and we hold our baby. And then you kind of hold each other and then you kind of, it's

very weird. It's hard to explain, but it's, you get transports like this alternate reality where like this world that you didn't think existed, where I would be free is now a place that I'm somehow living in, right? And then that thing exists for maybe like 10 minutes or so.

And then you kind of start realizing and then the world kind of opens back up and then you start realizing like, holy crap, I'm free, you know, And then you go through like the state of like elation, right where you're like, you drink champagne. I hold my baby, I hold my wife and we kiss and we hug and we love each other. And, you know, it's, and then, you know, I talk to my family, I talk to people I've met along the way. I talk to you and other people. And I'm like, thank God, you

know, thank God I'm free. And then, you know, after that, it's like, you know, you're happy, but then you still feel the same. You still, you're in a war mode, right? And and that's still how I feel today, right? Where it's like that that's going to take time for that layer of anger of aggressiveness

to shut off, right? Because you know, it's something that you build up where you don't, you don't, you don't hope for anything like, like hope was the most dangerous thing during those days and still is. I don't hope for anything beyond my immediate control, right? Because the hope is what will destroy your soul, right? You have to get ready for war, right? You have to get ready for the worst possible thing that can happen.

You have to get ready for imprisonment and death and other anything other than that is, is, is a fever dream, right? So it's like slowly extracting myself from that mindset is what I have to do. You still feel like there's got to be some some accountability for what happened I. Imagine. Yeah, of course, Of course.

Because what these people did, it's to accuse someone of a crime they did not commit, but especially when that person did the right thing to expose a hospital for lying about their program that was manipulating, mutilating and sterilizing young children, right. It's the most evil thing you can do. Because to accuse someone innocent, right, you have to see that person as less than human.

Because like, like, I could never imagine myself doing the same thing to this prosecutor who came after me. I would never want to. I would I, I could never imagine a world in which they undergo the same thing I did. I would never want them to undergo the same thing because they're human. They deserve more than that. They deserve justice and they deserve dignity, right? But, but so to accuse someone of that, you have to see them as subhuman. So they saw me as subhuman,

right? But then also they destroy themselves in the process. Because when you accuse someone innocent, you kind of you, you undignify yourself. So they destroyed themselves in the process, but also they destroyed the justice system, which is the only means by which our society remains civil. Because without an appropriate system of justice, then people only take that they take justice

into their own hands, right. So it's like what we rely on, you know, to remain civil as a society is what they were destroying. So it's like the most important thing is what they were abusing. So it's like there has to be accountability for that. There has to be. And like I, I hate to say, I hope I and I, I, I will do everything in my power. I hope there is accountability, Of course, you know, it's a dangerous feeling of hope,

right? But, you know, I guess now that we're talking about, I guess I do hope there is I there has to be there seems fair. Yeah. I mean, there has to be, right? It's like, like, you know how much we went through, right? Like, how much for for years, right. Like, you know, Andrew and I, we would, we would just nightmares every night.

Like there was not one night where we could sleep right, You know, where my wife would just be crying, like, you know, all the time, just just thinking that I was going to be in prison for 10 years for doing the right thing. Right. That is really hard to forgive that that feeling. And The thing is, it's, it's only God can forgive. What these people need is accountability, right? So they, I, I believe what they did was illegal, right? They had abused their authority.

There are already laws that say if people abuse their authority and send people to jail for their own political benefit, right? That's a crime. I believe that they should be held to the same standards as everyone else. Yeah, there has to be, because how else do you recover from that? One of the things you mentioned, there's a word that you said that's very specific, the word dehumanize. Do you see any historical analogs? I don't want to put my own lens on this, but.

Yeah, I mean, it's like in the Soviet Union when you read like Solzhenitsyn's Gulag Archipelago, right, When you had the the Russians who were being sent to gulags, you know, they had like this phony, you know, system of law that they would send people. Like if you criticize the government, if you lied, it was either 10 or 20 years in the

gulag. But like what Solzhenitsyn talks about in the book is that the dehumanizing effect of like, like and, and that's what Soshinistin had to recover while he was in the camps because during one of the chapters, I think it's called the ascent or the ascending, right? Which is where the famous quote comes from, where the line between good and evil is not between nations, it's not between states, it's not between, you know anything else.

It's the line goes in between each human heart, right? And it was like once you realize that each part of us can be complicit and evil just as much as we can be complicit and good. But for these people to to take away the the system of justice from another human is to dehumanize themselves, right? It's to take a step towards the line of evil, right? To dehumanize not only their target, but also themselves. And so of course, you know, this is a story that is the most

human of stories. This is something that we've gone through a million times before. This is just a replay. And another famous socialist quote. I think it's him where he says, you know, like history doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes, right? Like this is it right? This is just another play on something that's happened before. It seems like that's going to be the legacy of the Twenty 20s dehumanization.

I don't know why we have to repeat that every 60 or 80 years, but it does seem like a real thing. I mean, that's what they did to you, right? They dehumanized. You they did it to your patients during COVID as well, did they not? Yeah, yeah, because it's it's not the first time you've even talked about it in the last two hours. Yeah, yeah. And it's like when you see other people dehumanized, like, you feel a need to stand up for

those who are dehumanized. What was happening to these kids at the transgender clinic? They were being dehumanized, like, in the most physical way possible because the human soul, right, is what was being ripped out of their bodies with the assistance of medications and hormones and surgery, right? And and they were actually being dehumanized. Yeah. Like the name that they were born into this world was, was now their dead name, right.

Like, what other way to dehumanize someone than that, Right. And it's like, so, right. You have to stand up for that. But then when they dehumanize me, it's like, no, no, you can't do that. I'm going to fight back, right? And now it's. Like it it always starts until they they they hit that one spot. Yeah, yeah. It's like. Or hit that one person. And you know, it's, it's another part of the Soshinitsyn.

You know, he, he has this quote that where he talks about like, I forget what chapter it is in the Gulag Archipelago, but where he says, if only every single person who the, the secret police when they showed up to your door, if you said, no, I'm not going to go with you, I'm going to fight back. And you fought to the death, how much suffering would be prevented, right? And like, and I think that's a

lesson for future generations. It's like when the day comes that someone knocks on your door, you say no, like, I'm not giving in. I'm not complying with your corruption. I'm going to fight tooth and nail. I'm going to fight until the death because that's what you have to do in order to win. You know I agree. Yeah. They can't take us all. No, no, they. Can't that's that might have been the biggest overstep that has happened for I don't even think it was people.

Maybe maybe you agree with me. I don't think it was people that did this. Human beings were the instrument, but I don't think that was what was driving. The evil in 2020, I think it was the evil force. You know, it's, it's the those forces that you can't necessarily like, you know, acknowledge in polite company, but you know, those forces exist. It's the forces that are the driving impetus between good and evil, something that you know, runs, you know, in the middle of

each human soul, right? It's the difference between good and evil, right? This is, you know, God and and the devil. Yeah, the demonic that that runs out there and pursues its own end to the detriment of even the people that are that are implementing it, because none of those people that went after you are any better off for it.

No, no, And that's The thing is, you know, it's like I, there's a certain sadness I feel for them, for Tina Ansari and Paul Nixon and Hamdani, because like they didn't have to be like this. They, they could live a better life, you know, like TCH, it's an amazing hospital. They do amazing work.

Like they can, they can live, they can do such, so much better, but they choose not to. And I think that's very unfortunate because where where there's a potential for evil, there's also potential for good, you know? They do well. They they for both of us, I think they destroyed the, the legal institutions that look very, very different after this last couple years for you and I think for a lot of people after COVID, the medical institutions

have lost a lot of the shine. What other institutions do you think have really been debased in the last couple? Years every institution. So the legal institution, right? So like law firms because like there was no law firm that would be willing to take my case. I mean, thank God for Marcelo Burke, the Burke Law Group and the attorneys who represented me, Mark Lytle, Ryan Patrick, right?

I mean, they're heroes, but like all these law firms would not have represented me because it was a quote UN quote controversial case. They would represent child rapists, right, in murderers and like, you know, like Ponzi scheme criminals, but not me, someone who stood up for children, right, because it's a conservative cause because. There's politics involved in it. Exactly. Yeah. And it's on the wrong side of

those politics. But you know, so it's the education system, the medical system, police departments, the FBI, the DOJ, right. You know, you had psychologist, psychiatry, every establishment institution in this country had been based because they had participated in the lies. So where do we go doc? What comes up next do you think? You know, I think for me it's gradually fade out into

obscurity. You know, I'll try to raise as much money just to pay our legal bills, but most likely we won't be able to and we'll just pay it off over the next couple of decades, which sucks. You know, probably with Social Security, I'll probably pay legal bills with our Social Security checks when we're like 70 years old because the age, you know, they should raise the age. I mean, you know, separate issue, but they should raise the age for Social Security. But you know.

Yeah, we need one of these. We need somebody to come in and and maybe underwrite this cause because it was the right 'cause. Yeah, I hope so. I'm not holding my breath because if there's one group of people, I am not, you know, the other institution is conservative donors, right? I mean, it's though I've, I've talked to so many conservative, conservative donors, right? Like, Oh yeah, you know, we'll help you out. They're so nice to you in person. They say, Oh yeah, I'll text,

I'll call. They make all these promises, let you know and grant, I'm not, I'm not begging for their support. You know, it's like, I would love it. It'd be great. But like, you know, we can do it on our own with the help of the American people. But like every single one of these donors never respond. It's an. Interesting problem. Yeah, I'm and, and then the same people, a lot of them will turn around and write a check to like some political organization that doesn't do anything except pay

think tank guys and stuff. And it's an interesting dynamic. Yeah. It is an interesting dynamic. I'm I'm not mad at them. They can do what they want with their own money. And and that's The thing is like it, there's no hard feelings. It's like, yeah, because it is their money I have. No, it's kind of just an eye opening moment to see what what is and it's not valuable. Yeah, because like, it's their money. They have a right to if they don't want to donate.

Oh man, that's totally fine, no problem. But it's just to see what other things they donate to is kind of revealing. All right, what are the what are the good things that have come out of this? If anything give me a couple of high. Points. I'll tell you what I mean. Everything is positive, right? It's like, but with within the darkness. You have to find the light. I mean, my wife and I, it's like I've never loved my wife more

than I do today, right? I, I look at my daughter's eyes, it's like it's just happiness and beauty and, and, and potential, you know, for myself, it's like, I never thought I could get through something like this. Like, like I told my attorneys in the very beginning, like a crazy person, right? Like, we have to, to fight against the most powerful federal leviathan in human history. Number one, we have to beat this case. Number one, we have to raise

over $1,000,000. Number two, I was wrong. It should have been $2,000,000. But still we raised over $1,000,000. And we have to somehow, you know, gather the most prominent conservative voices in the country to speak out for our cause because that's the only way we're going to fight back. And I did all of those things. And I was just a random dude. I was just a random guy. I was a no one, you know, but we were able to do it. And it's like like I was AI believed in myself.

I believed my wife believed in me, I believed in her and I believed in my attorneys. It's like that's an awesome thing, man. Like our relationships like man, like you're awesome, dude. Like, you know, I would consider

you a friend for sure. There's so many good relationships from this and, and it's like, yeah, there were some bad stuff, nothing compared to the good because it's like it's, it's a privilege to be able to take on this fight and to fight against the most evil forces known to mankind, right. Like, that's something to, to, to be a part of. That's a fight to be a part of, man. It's also great not to. To become the thing that they've accused you of being, to rise above it.

Here you are. You're looking for the good out of it. You didn't become some angry, miserable, you know, just, you know, spiteful human. No, no. And it's kind of like when I talk about anger, it's like, it's not like the spiteful anger, it's like the the motivating anger. It's like anger, indignation. I'm going to give you a name. For it. Oh, yeah. Like I like, what's the guy's name who wrote the book? Righteous indignation. Breitbart. Andrew Breitbart. Yeah, Yeah.

It's righteous indignation where like, we should be righteously indignant. We should be angry, but it should be like the type of anger where like, you don't need to eat, you don't need to sleep. Where like you can walk through a burning building and you can't get burned because the inferno that is burning inside of your heart is so much hotter than like any flames that are outside, which is like how this

is possible. It's like, like the only way to make it through something like this is to, to be like, you know, animated by this righteous indignation, like this anger, right? But it's not spite, it's not vengeance. It's justice. It's goodness, it's beauty, it's love. Amen Doc. Amen, man, Amen. How good was it getting all your weapons back? It was it was like a, you know, like like those ROM coms where you have like two people come together at the last scene and

they embrace each other. So my wife and I had that. But if there was anything I could have with like an inanimate object, it was like my guns because I love, I mean, it's just something I spend so much time on. I love shooting, you know, every weekend since I've gone shooting and it was, you know, to be able to protect my family, to be able to my favorite hobby, right. It's like building guns, shooting guns. It's like, it's great, man.

I saw the picture you put out on on X, which was great to see, going out there and getting reunited with your stuff. And yeah, it's stuff, but we're dudes and dudes like stuff. And that's your stuff. They're tools. They're tools of protection, you know, of, of they're the things that we use to protect our rights, to protect our families. I remember watching You should do this, have your wife do this.

It's really a weird throwback. If you want to know about what Ruff looked like, because we all kind of, we have a sense of it now, right, go watch the Little House on the Prairie. And I keep telling people to do this. I've told people like 10 people in the last couple years, go out and watch the Little House on the Prairie, the original pilot episode. And I'll just tell you what happens because it's been written and it's not new.

It's not a spoiler at this point because the process is what's important. But the, the wild family, is it the Engel family? Whatever. Laura Ingalls Wilder, I think it's Engel family. Yeah. They they go out on the the Prairie, they leave the big wood. Dad only brings a couple things with him. He brings a couple of like pillows or some skirts, some clothes that's warm, and his rifle and a dog, you know. And they go and they build his house and they scratch the

living out of nothing. And they build up the cabin and they're staying in there and the catches on fire and they save it from a wildfire. And the Indians come and all the other wild stuff that goes on and they almost starved to death and they almost died a million times. And then the federal government comes and kicks them out of their house and says they gave the land back to the Indians.

And so the plow that they had and the crops that they grew and, like all the stuff they have to leave it all behind. And he leaves with his rifle. Because 200 years ago, there were only a few things that you really needed to be able to survive. And so there's an instinct, a primal instinct, I think, for men. Yeah. To have that tool, it's like the end of the day, I can determine whether somebody comes through my door. Yeah. Yeah. It's important.

Especially when you have people who you care about you, you know, your your wife, your kid. It's like, yeah, it's like this need as a father, I have to protect my daughter. As a husband, I have to protect my wife. That's it. It's the most basic stuff anyway. Go watch, watch that with her. And then you'll also get kind of another sense of like, man, we've got it so easy in this time.

Yeah, yeah. Not not discounting any of the things that you've been through or any of the things that my family seems well, but yeah, you just go like, oh, man, it could be so much more primal. It was a lot. It was a civilized fight that you were involved in. An ugly one, no, no doubt, but. Yeah, but definitely civilized, that's for sure. No one got scalloped. That's right, nobody got scalloped. What's the best way that people can do?

How about who are some people that we think might want to, what might want to write that check that's going to help you out? Because I, I don't want you to be in a debt of $1,000,000 and I want to do what I can to try to help it. And I'm happy to start writing letters too. Everybody needs a little bit of money right now, but this seems like one of those holes that should be filled in because it's really righteous.

Yeah, I, I like the easiest person obviously, is Elon Musk because he's like the richest person in the world. You know I may. Have an in on that. OK. So OK, we'll do that. Yeah, good. But you know, I, I don't want to make this appear like I'm like demanding anything. It would just be cool. That'd be cool. But. It's a rounding error for him too, probably. Yeah, and he's got important things going on. So it's like, I'm telling you, man, totally cool. Like we'll pay it off over

decades. It's fine, you know. You didn't want Social Security anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like, but like and but you know, the the reason I say that is because X intervened in my case, you know, about the gag order. Did they? Yeah, they were. They were an interested party, just like TCH or Baylor. Did you hear from like, was it Shaif Jaffe? Was that the attorneys? You know what? I think so. Yeah, yeah, They reached out to me the other day. Oh, really?

Yeah, they want to sue the federal government with me. Yeah, you should. Yeah, they're good. They're legit people. They're I can, I can just from my own, you know, personal experience, I can tell you that they're legit, like, and and they intervened in my case. I'm just a random guy, but they're willing to stand up for the little person X, right. So they're really about what they say. They're about free speech because my case was about free speech more so than anything

else. Truly, it is. It's maybe that's one of the biggest redeeming things for most people to see is that some of these folks, there's a lot of people out there that are fakes. Would you agree? Oh, yeah, yeah. But you know, Elon Musk in ex. No, no, no. Babylon B the Babylon B her meet Dylan. Oh, man, they're the real Dylan. Holy crap. I mean, you, you know, the the suspendables. Gary O Boyle, Steve Friend, you know, Cash Patel, you know, too many people, you know, are these

are their. Yeah, Good, good people, really good people. Simone Gold, you know, she's great. Love her and. We can just do like a love fest on all the people. I really appreciate that you have such a positive attitude out of this. I just want to, I want to tell you that we're praying for you. We've been praying for you. I'm so grateful that you had the outcome you did. I know the audience is going to be really excited about it too, if they haven't been paying attention.

I'm I'm glad I got to talk to you on the day was dismissed. Even if you had a couple of bottles, a bottle of champagne cracked open already. It it, it made my day. It probably made you. Know I'll tell you what you know. It's like those prayers were heard, man. Yeah, they were. They were hurt. All right, let's leave it on

that, folks. Say a prayer for the doc and his family, for this country, for the folks that are out there doing the right thing, and pray that you are ready too, that when that moment comes, you're ready because you don't. You don't get to get very many second shots at that. You don't get another bite at the apple usually. You usually got a yes or no. Thank you man, it was a privilege. And that is the Sunday sit down. I hope you enjoyed that conversation.

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