Prepared to hear the truth from a real whistleblower and American patriot? Here's civil liberties enthusiast, Second Amendment defender, and indefinitely suspended FBI agent Kyle Serafin. Hey, it's producer Phil for the Kyle Seraphin show. Kyle will be back on Monday with another long form interview with a retired agent who the FBI also tried to destroy. In the meantime, we have another great interview lined up for you. Kyle went on with his dad Charlie Seraphin on Kmog out West.
Before we get started, consider checking out the link below, helping out FBI whistleblowers, giving them your support and prayers. They're going through a lot these days, especially before the holidays, and they could really use any pick me up that you may have to offer. Thanks for considering that. Now let's get to the show. My guest this morning is my son, Kyle. Kyle Seraphin. Good morning, Kyle. Good morning. How's it going, Dad? Oh, pretty good. And where were you born, Kyle?
I was born in Berkeley, CA. Well, that's kind of an unusual place to be born for a person who is a we're going to talk about your status with the FBI, but but probably not that many born in Berkeley were there. I don't know. FBI agents, yeah, hard to say. I I haven't done any polling. OK. And and then you had a kind of a circuitous route before you showed up here in Payson, AZ You've been quite a few places in your life. You moved a lot. Why did you move so much?
I think I took after my dad, I took after my mom. I told my wife she married a tumbleweed. So I, yeah, I got out of college, I went to San Francisco and I worked for a furniture company and then I ended up working at a radio station doing airtime sales for a little bit. And then I went back to Texas because you can never really leave. Worked for Dell Incorporated and and did that for a little while. And then I moved to Kansas City
and I ran a restaurant. And then I went to San Diego and I was kind of like a homeless couch surfing bum looking for a job and got hired on by a movie studio in Los Angeles and work for Warner Brothers. And, and then I enlisted in the military because I was looking for some direction and focus, which is really where kind of my life kind of started making some sense to me. And I did that for just shy of four years in the Air Force and then got out and went back to
Texas like you do, got married and ended up getting hired on by the FBI and then sent to DC. Because everybody should spend some time in the swamp, I guess, and see how awful the world can be. You were a little older when you joined the military and you told me that you actually I thought about being a part of the military when you were a teenager, when I didn't know that. Yeah, that's true. No, I, I thought about joining when I was a kid because I was a swimmer and I was a kind of a
amphibious type of guy. And I, I always thought that the, the SEAL teams were kind of calling my name. I ended up going a different route, but I still became a combat diver and still became a, you know, a frogman type of, you know, trained military personnel. So it was something I thought about when I was 1617. There wasn't really a family history of doing that sort of thing in our in our house. So I it didn't go that way. But as a somewhat grown up, I've made that decision on my own.
I was Speaking of family histories. There are a lot of people. You've been in the public eye for a number of months now, and before that you were pretty private individual. Talk about growing up. Did you grow up in a political family? No, I don't think I did. I don't know that I knew. Do you ever? Remember a political yard sign in the front yard? Or do you ever remember your parents attending a political rally? I'm fairly confident they did not. Yeah. I never saw anything like that.
And I don't remember it being a thing that people talked about when I was a kid. I know it's it's standard fare right now, but you know, in the 80s and the 90s when I was growing up, it was one of those things that you didn't really talk about politics, you didn't really talk about religion, and you didn't talk about your sexual orientation. Those were nobody else's business except maybe you and maybe you and your spouse had quiet conversations.
But I never heard it as a kid. And I certainly didn't hear grown-ups talking about it around me. Do you? But your your father was in an industry that he had a lot of interface with political types. I heard you threw a drink on Dan Feinstein. Well, that was an accident. I didn't mean to throw a drink on Dianne Feinstein, but and President Reagan and President
Bush and all that. So we were around, our family, was around people who had a political disposition, but it wasn't really a part of our our home life, was it? Not at all, no. I mean, I think it was more of the, the note that there were some contact with celebrity people that were of note, but not that we, I never heard an
opinion one where about them. I, I know that you thought it was interesting to go and talk to Reagan at the, at the White House, but I don't remember knowing anything about Reagan or why that would have been interesting other than he was the president and I didn't know what party was when I was growing up. It wasn't them. It wasn't, you know, salient information to me because it just wasn't the way that we were raised. So if people wanted to cast you as a political person, well, are
you a political person? I think that at this point, everybody kind of has weighed in on, you know, in the forum, but but the things that I've come forward with are not inherently political. I, I, I'd like to think I'm a
centrist. I, I just think that the window has shifted so far to the left that now I'm somewhat on the, the right center of things because, you know, we have the White House lit up with, with a rainbow colored lighting and that's kind of wild for something that five years ago or eight years ago would have been totally absurd. So everybody is kind of pulled into a a political position, but it's not something that I've done, you know, overtly or willingly all. Right.
Good morning. Welcome to the forum. Who's on the line? Hi. Who's Chris? Hi, Chris. Hi Kyle, wow, you've already made my day a bit brighter and your father has a wonderful show that I listen to regularly sharing pace. That being said, I consider myself a kindred spirit. I somehow managed to make my way through UC Santa Cruz to the United States Marine Corps and had a successful career thereafter. Now, as a citizen, I have a question for you.
Do you find yourself disheartened by what I would call a little bit of a haywire society we're living in today? And I'll give a real quick anecdote. I have to go to California today to obtain a senior citizen identification card for my mother.
He's a second generation Californian in her 80s and I have to provide certified documentation, proof of residency, and I also have in hand a press release from the Governor of California dated September 23rd of this year saying anybody gets a California ID. Regardless of status or documentation. Yet now I have to travel with California as an FBI agent. Do you find that a little bit disconcerting, or should I just go along with the flow and just do it? Well. Chris, first, thanks for your
service. I'm appreciative of all Marines. Some of my best buddies are Marines, so I've got a lot of love for the Marine Corps. On top of that, I think that you're living in that kind of strange world that we're all seeing where there are certain rules that do not apply to people in this country. And it seems like the people who pay the taxes and the people who are. And, and I'm not saying it's the majority of the taxes.
I'm just saying that something comes out of all of your paychecks or your pensions and you're all funding the government and the government seems to be working against us. And I include myself in that group as well. It's like there are certain, there are certain expectations that providing documentation for ID is, doesn't sound crazy. What, what is the purpose of ID other than to positively say that you are the person that is on that particular document?
And yet we're seeing things like people coming over to our sudden border and they're getting access to, you know, services and they're being moved in. You know, the law states that they shouldn't be doing that. And, and obviously California is bucking that trend. So I'm, I don't know if it's haywire. It feels like it's by design. It doesn't feel good. I don't, I feel as you do. I'm, I'm troubled by a lot of this stuff. And I think we're unwittingly kind of pulled into it.
Well, thank you. And again, I'm just going to emphasize the point that you've actually made me feel a lot better than I did a couple hours ago this morning thinking about this because I know that there are people in our society that are trying to maintain the fabric of our society. And I consider yourself to be one of those people. And we do have Quantico, Virginia in our in our relationship. So thanks again, Kyle, and I'll hang up and let another caller. Thank you, Chris.
Appreciate your call this morning. I had actually forgotten that. But when you drive into the the training facility at Quantico, it's a Marine base and the FBI training facility. That's right. It's actually home to the basic School, which is where all Marine Corps officers go and get their, you know, their basic
training. And there's nothing more common when you're an FBI trainee driving around on the base than to see some poor SAP who's in his early 20s, who's got a heavy pack on and looks like he's suffering through life walking through the swamp that is outside of in the Northern Virginia area, just lost with a map and trying to make it to his next point. So. So you were a little late getting to the military. You enlisted kind of just under the wire.
Yeah, I think the age limit was 27 when I went in and I was 27 when I went in, so I was right at the edge. I was the oldest guy in my basic training flight. And how was that you were with a lot of 18 and 19 year olds when you went in initially? And 17 year olds, even, you know, the guys that are, they had their parents permission to run off and, and join the military and try to do something
great with their life. And yeah, it's, it's weird to have a decade worth of life experience on your, on your fellow, you know, equal rank, equal pay, but they don't know anything. They're 17 years old, They're going to marry the 1st girl that holds hands with them. They're going to marry a girl they met over the weekend because she was the one. And you know, it's, it's funny. I mean, it's a, it's a fun life experience to have when people call you grandpa at 28 years old.
That's not what normal people do. That's a military thing. That's that's only done there I think. A lot of people aren't aware that the Air Force has its own special OPS units as well. We hear a lot about the Navy Seals. They're the probably the most, and before that the Army Rangers. And so they're the, we go through the various disciplines and each one. But tell us about the Air Force and what they have. The Air Force has a special operations unit.
It's under Air Force Special Operations Command and it rolls up to a group that's called US SOCOM, which is the the the General Military Special Operations Command. And that's going to include your, your Navy Seals, it's going to include your your Army special forces specifically in the 75th Ranger Battalion is the Light Infantry version that goes
in there. So those are the other branches on it. And then the Air Force has two different career fields that fall under it and maybe a third that is sometimes I've got a buddy who was in there. It's the pair rescue man, which got very famous in Vietnam for rescuing a lot of helicopter pilots and down soldiers that were behind enemy lines or in in a hot conflict zones.
They're a special operations medical personnel that have a joint recovery mission and, you know, do all the things that can attach to any of the other team. So, you know, when I was going through, I, I trained to be a pair of a rescue man at the, the end of my career, my, my short four years.
And so you become a paramedic, A nationally registered paramedic that, that operates out of a helicopter and out of a backpack, you know, sustaining patients for up to maybe 72 to 96 hours in the worst case scenario. And then there's another kind of coin that that came and was bigger in the global war on terrorism, which is the combat control teams. And those are special operators
as well. They attached to the same types of team Seals and other direct action personnel, special forces and so on. And they are what are known as joint terminal attack controllers. So they are the types of guys that are talking to the Air Force planes. They're all trained as air traffic controllers. And and of course, amusingly enough, I went through most of that training as well. So I'm an air traffic controller amongst my other weird set of
skills. But they can talk to all the planes in the sky, they can deconflict with drones, and they can drop ordinance up to danger close areas. And they do with a high degree of precision because that's the specificity of their training. And it's a, you know, a force
multiplier. And, and in the global war on terrorism, they were the probably the single most powerful weapon on the battlefield because they're controlling F fifteens, F sixteens, A 10's and so on, and bringing in really, really heavy guns that no team can carry in a forward environment. So that's it's kind of a special little skill set. When you went into the ground traffic control unit, I expressed some concern to you and you said, oh, you don't have to worry and and why?
I don't remember telling you I have to worry. I just knew it was what I signed up to do. Said I'll be I'll be surrounded by the best of of the best. That's because, yeah, that's because the unit that that surrounds the ground combat controller is they have to have all the precision marksmen and and soldiers and warriors.
So I mean, if you think about what your, your average break out with a, you know, military special forces team, as you look at what the Army puts on there, they've got, you know, weapon specialist in the Bravos, they've got explosives and demo and building specialist in the Charlies. They've got a real specific mission.
The guys that do direct action, their shooters, their killers, there's no doubt about it. But there's interesting stories that come out of that, you know, Afghanistan and Iraq where you had these guys that were forward air controllers that are, you know, joint terminal attack controllers, combat controllers. And, you know, I've read their their stories where they were in the middle of talking aircraft onto the enemy targets, which
were very, very close. And guys were literally throwing their bodies in front of these men. Because when you lose the radio comms with the, with the, you know, the error support that's above you, that's the end of it for some of these guys that are in contact, you know, engaging
an enemy actively. And so people there are the stories are incredibly heroic stories of special operators that were making human blockades with their own bodies to make sure that the guy that's on the radio, some of them whom had
already been shot. You know, there's a, there's a guy named Rudy Gutierrez, who I met, who was shot through and through in the lungs and was doing needle decompressions on his own body while talking on the radio to the aircraft and bringing in this close air support. And the, the pilot said afterwards in the commendation that they didn't even know that he'd been shot. They had no idea he was calm. He was collected.
And, and meanwhile, he's got like a round that's gone through his lungs and it's deflating his, you know, the left side of his lung. And he's over there dropping this needle in doing what needed to be done, speaking calmly and giving the pilots the information 10 digit grid so that they could lock in and put ordinance on the bad guys, saving the team. But in the meantime, you know, he was, he was dying. He was, you know, slowly dying away as he was bleeding internally.
And also he was losing all the oxygen out of one side of his his chest cavity. Weapons and explosives. I have told people many times on this program that I grew up hunting as a kid in rural northern Wisconsin and went bird hunting and deer hunting and whatnot. But we weren't really a weapons type of family. We didn't have a gun case per SE at home when you kids are growing up, right? And then explosives.
I know nothing about explosives. I know I, I carried a box of dynamite one time for a guy that was building a little lake, but that was kind of silly. But tell us about weapons and explosives. You have a passion for both. I do. So I would say that when it comes to small arms weapons, you know, I started buying them when I was old enough to buy them. That's 21 years old. I bought my first handguns. I've bought a gun every year,
every cents or more. I've, I was recently friends with a guy who's a federally licensed firearm dealer in, in New Mexico and the ATF does these sort of like spot surprise annual raids. They're supposed to be a surprise, but some reason happens every year to the home guys. And so he was the one that was receiving all my guns. And when ATF went through his records, they only flagged one name in the records and it was mine. And they asked the dealer, you know, like, what's with this guy?
How come he's on your books every week? Because I was buying a gun every week, every two weeks or so. And not cheap ones, by the way. So I spent a fair amount of my income on that kind of thing. And he said, oh, he's OK. You know, he's a fed, He's not a, he's not a problem. And then when it comes to explosives, I, I obviously don't deal with them in the civilian life. That's not a thing that I deal with.
But I would say that playing with explosives, learning how to use explosives is one of the purest ways that you can apply the principles of physics. And so as a cerebral type of creature, I always found that Det cord and C4 and dynamite and it's, it's almost the cleanest way that you can execute pure physics because it's so fast. And you're talking about high explosives going at 20 to 25,000 feet per second.
They almost neglect things like friction and, and the air that would otherwise slow down action. So you can simultaneously do a cut and half a second later do a push charge and knock over a tree exactly where you want it to go. And if you know how the physics are supposed to work in a pure sort of, you know, diagram, you can almost overcome all the sort of adversaries that you'd have that are in the normal environment. So it's really, it's fun. It's simple theoretical physics.
Anybody who's ever blown anything up knows that there's AP at the bottom of the equation. P is for plenty. That's what they always joke. That means you always use more explosives than you think you should, so that's fun too. You got in trouble one time when you were a kid. I'm I'm just flashing back on this now. You created a kind of an explosive devices that brought the fire department to our house. You want to tell that story? Sure. I got I got interested in model
rockets. I had an older brother, my my brother Thor was into sending model rockets. I think he bought me the first kit. And you could buy these different, you know, hobby rocket launching type things. And so everybody basically sets up a little launchpad and they put the little igniter in there and you get different categories of engines.
There's Alpha and Bravo and Charlie and Delta class engines and then you send like the actual kit, which is kind of a cardboard tube and A and a plastic nose cone with a little, you know, explosive charts that goes forward and it sends out a little parachute and then you land it. You can go do that the soccer field and go catch them or they go fly around in the wind or whatever. But that wasn't good enough for me.
I, I had found a like a, a wooden dowel, A hardwood dowel and I sharpened that sucker down on a, on some kind of like a belt Sander that you had that probably wasn't designed for that sort of work. And, and I remember thinking, I need to harden this thing up. So I flame hardened it, you know, like on an open torch or something and shoved that into
APVC pipe. And then I got twice the amount of rockets that I thought I needed and shoved that sucker into the, the, the butt end of it and built my own, you know, little cut steel fins sent that sucker out full of some kind of explosive powder, at least what I believe would be explosive, which it did. It had like a little bomb in the, in the sky and kind of sent this thing off.
And then the damn thing went flying down and it, it penetrated something like 6 inches of gravel from a high altitude, probably 15-18 hundred feet, and went into the road, which I didn't realize was back there 'cause my understanding of mass was much lower at the time. So some lady thought the Russians were bombing us and called the fire department. Of course they get there. There's this smoking rocket that's sitting there that's got some, you know, explosive
soaked. I don't know what it was, paper towels or something like that, that all burned up. And you know, they came, brought the bomb squad to our house, which is good. Yeah, Speaking of the bomb squad, you had an opportunity at one point in your training to get to where that funny bomb squad kind of thing that we see in the movies where the guy is all like the Doughboy. He's got all that puffy stuff. Tell us about that one. It's heavy number one, It's cumbersome and it's awkward.
And what was funny is, and so I did this as an FBI agent, I was trying out to go on there what they call the special agent bomb techs, the SABT teams. Yeah, and why? Why exactly did you want to do that? I don't know, I just it's, it's an interesting cerebral exercise. There's a lot of, you know, studying. There's a lot of interesting at post blast analysis. I'm interested in explosives in general, right. So being able to apply that to an investigation sounded like a cool thing.
Not everybody gets a chance to do it. So they do this try out where you throw on the, you know, the bomb suit and they bulge you into the to the helmet and all that kind of thing. And the lady told me, you know, be real. You know, we want you to freak out if you, if you panic, just raise your hands and we'll let you out of here. And I thought, like, lady, I've been in the dark upside down and, you know, 100 feet underwater and pitched, you know, pitch black.
I'm going to be all right in a bomb suit where I'm standing in a in a garage. But they had you run around and you know, the tryout was running around and using basic hand tools and, and electrical tools, you know, drill gun and things
like that. And you know, an impact driver to be able to open and close cases and set up a deal where you put up a, a little X-ray set up and you can see what's in the thing and run back and then set up a shotgun that's going to go and do an automated blast and detonate it and whatever else. And it was fun. I mean, it was like a 2030 minute little exercise running around in a suit that probably weighs somewhere between 25 and 50 lbs. I don't know what exactly, but it's real cumbersome.
I mean, it's like being in a in a sumo suit. So I'm going there's, I'm actually going somewhere with all of this. I'm going, I'm kind of walking you through it, but it's in an indirect. We're going to go backwards now. We're going to go back into the Air Force again. And yeah, you attended something called Sears School. What's that? So there's two. Two categories of Sears school. I went to the second one, which was the easier of the two, was one of the goofiest days of my life.
It's it's called water egress. So it's a all Sears schools are survival evasion resistance. I may have missed one of the words. It's a, it's a survival training. And so, you know, it's commonly known as combat survival training. One of them I did was where they put you in a helicopter and, and, and put you in a mask that was blacked out with duct tape on it and then flipped you upside down and dropped you underwater and made you escape out of this simulated helicopter
that was on a big crane. And they drop into this huge pool, which was a riot. The only problem was, is I'd made the terrible mistake. It's probably one of the only times in my life I remember doing this. I went out and drank till like two or three in the morning with some idiot young guys who were in their early 20s. And, you know, I'm 30 years old at this point. So I was so hungover. It was like one of the worst
experiences I ever had. I thought I was going to throw up the whole way through it. But the other piece of it is, is that what people think of as being, you know, survival school where they they teach you how to do basic skills in the woods. They teach you how to set traps and snares. And, you know, we set up a snare to try to catch an elk or a moose. I don't know, we didn't catch
anything. But it's funny, you set up tiny little snares to try to catch, you know, rabbits or squirrels, and then they just kind of starve you for about a week and change. You're doing land navigation out in the woods. In my case, it was up in Spokane, WA at Fairchild Air Force Base, which is old Strategic Air Command base, kind of cool, like neat old Cold War space. And, you know, you run around, you get cold. It was December when I went through it. So I froze my butt off.
And it was, it was just warm enough during the day to get wet. And then it was just cold up at night for my uniform to freeze. And, you know, you set up these impromptu little shelters and run around. And then after all that, somebody grabs you and throws a bag over your head and and puts you in a prison camp and beats the heck out of you and ask you a bunch of questions. And your job is to not tell them the questions.
So you get a little bit of a torture and abuse and they can only take it so far, but they can smack the heck out of you. And I always knew the smack was coming because I wore glasses at the time. And I had anybody was in the military will be familiar what we call the birth control glasses or the BCGS. And they're the heavy frame military glasses. I'd always have them on my face.
And I also had a real stupid mustache at the time, which was probably real helpful to get them motivated to hit me. And they would take the glasses off my face, fold them up very, very, you know, very ritualistically. And then they would put them in my front pocket right before I got hit. And so I always knew it was coming and there was probably about 8 seconds of anticipation before my teeth rattled. So that was always good. What kind of questions did they ask?
What were they? They were trying to get you to reveal your unit and the size of your unit and that sort of thing. Yeah, there's certain things that you're allowed to say and I don't know how much of it is classified anymore. So I'll kind of be cautious about saying people have been through the training know, but it's it's, you know, the techniques are classified
secret. Your job is to basically stay within a certain parameter of what you're allowed to talk about and try to deflect to the things that you need. So medical care, food, water, you know, attention for your, your comrades, your, your friends, the ability to, to, to speak to an embassy, things like that, trying to get a message back home, all that kind of thing. But you're defending the information that would, you know, expose the other troops to, to danger.
So, you know, radio frequencies, size and location of troops, the movements they're going, you know, comms plans, any kind of cryptography or anything that you were doing, any kind of secret codes or call response. You're trying to keep that all under wraps. So they're asking you what the things are, you know, what's the color of the day? How do they validate to try to, you know, infiltrate your base, whatever. And then you say, I don't know.
And then they beat the crap out of you, unless you're this guy that I, I stood next to when they first threw the hood over me, who was in the Army. And he just kept telling the answers. And finally at the end of it, they asked me why he was such a wimp. And I thought that was really funny. I started laughing and then they hit me in the face again. So you, you can't win at Sears School. You're just going to get beat up.
So the point of all this I'm going to go through and I don't know that I can even remember all them, but we we talked about weapons and bombs and explosives and we talked about the air traffic control. We talked about training as a paramedic. We talked about experience at at the survival school. We talked about that. We didn't even talk a lot about the underwater combat and all that and stuff that you went through and then the specific weapons training, training in the law training.
You've had a lot of training paid for by the United States government. You are, you are the recipient of, of probably all the tax dollars and much more that I've ever paid in my life. In in your life, you ever try to add it all up and say if you put a value on it, how much? How much do you think the government invested in you? It's goofy because I used to do the numbers. So when I was in between trainings, they found out that I
was literate. And so my job when I was in between courses was as a, as an E3, as an Airman first class. I used to do write the commendations for all my supervisors on behalf of my captain, who was borderline illiterate and a really nice guy. And he would just say, make me sound smart, you know, don't you know, can I say this? And I say, no Sir, you can't say that, that sounds stupid. So I rewrite it.
And the second thing I did was help him with the budgeting 'cause I just come out of being in a finance background with, with, with Warner Brothers. So I actually saw how much it cost to train any individual airmen. And I went through two of those things and it was somewhere between 250 and maybe $350,000, depending on how long they were in the training. And then I did two of those.
So, you know, better part of half $1,000,000 when it came to the Air Force. And I don't know what they charge for the FBI, but it's $100,000 is what they claim to be able to just adjudicate a background check for a top secret clearance. And then, you know, sending somebody to Quantico cost more money as well. And so, you know, probably close to $1,000,000 with the government training at this point. Very good. Good morning. Welcome to the forum. Who's on the line?
Oh, they get impatient. Went away. NSA got them, yeah. 47424270 Maybe it was the NSA, maybe they come with question because they're trying to figure things out. It's about 27 minutes until 10:00. We're going to take a little break here. We're visiting with Kyle Seraphin, who we're going to talk about his status. He always introduces himself on the national programs.
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Who's on the line? Hey, good morning, Charlie and Kyle. This is Bob. How you guys doing? Hey, Bob. Hey. So, Kyle, I kind of knew your history and I knew that you were the guy who put the cherry bomb in the gymnasium toilet. Wasn't it true? I. Don't think we had any cherry bomb access when I was a kid. What, what a what a history you have, young man. You're terrific, Charlie. You should be very proud of your son. And I think your destiny, Sir, is going to be head up the new
FBI agency. Yeah. As George Bush once said to me, your lips to God's ears. Wouldn't that be something? Well, we can pray. And I think it's going to happen. I think we're going to turn this thing around. I truly believe it. A former military guy like you, Kyle, They served back in the Vietnam air as a helicopter pilot. And a lot of single ship operations and it was quite interesting. I believe that I appreciate your service.
I know that was a tough time to be to be serving this country, and I know a lot of people didn't appreciate at the time, but those of us who came after are grateful for all the slings and arrows that the Vietnam vets took. Well, I, I I know there's one hippie in San Francisco with a broken nose. After we got off the airplane. You. Probably deserved it. That's pretty funny. Absolutely. What a pleasure hearing you speak and you're an excellent young man. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Bob. Appreciate your call this morning. So Kyle, your status is indefinite suspension, not performance related. I read that language in a one of the legal filings that came from the FBI. What can you translate that into English for the rest of us? No.
That doesn't exist. So the FBI, when I first jumped on to social media, which was against all of my instincts, but it was the right move at the time, I, I refer to myself as Schrodinger's agent, which is kind of a throwback to this, this theoretical physical experiment done in the in the 30s where they were described, you know, describing a cat in a box that's simultaneously dead and not dead because it's shot, but you don't know if it's dead until you open up the box.
That's the simple version of it. And so I'm simultaneously an FBI employee. According to the FBI, my name is still, you know, in the e-mail list. I'm in the global address book. And my buddies every once in a while text me and tell me you've been offline for 238 days or whatever the heck it's been since, since I last was in, which was on April 18th. But I'm not being paid and I'm not being paid because there was no performance issue. They claimed it was a possible unprofessional conduct
situation. But the unprofessional conduct that they alleged resulted in the police officer that I was speaking to saying 10/8, no report. And if anybody in the law enforcement world was out there and knows how the 10 codes work, 10/8 means I'm going back into service and, and no report means that nothing happened. It was nothing worth writing up. So there's not going to be any kind of descriptive. There's not going to be any time off duty for him to sit around and type something up.
So it was a non event to the officer that I spoke with. It was a non event to me in a lot of ways other than I, I kind of knew that the FBI would have to know about it, which is why I self reported. I went to them and said, look, I had a conversation with a cop in the desert and he didn't know the state law, but I did. And he didn't know if we were in the city or the county, but I did.
And I told him those things. And then he went away and he asked me to go do something that I wasn't going to do. And I was polite about it and just said, you know, that's not going to happen. But but not for me trying to make trouble for you. It's just I, I was a Second Amendment supporter and someone who swore into the Bill of Rights. I I can't do that and I'm not going to do that and I didn't. So that was the the pretext, but what's the real reason? What what what was the FB is
beef with you initially? It's, it's funny because they both happened at the same time. I think the FBI has 2 problems with me. One of them was that I became a federal whistleblower. That's a very, very specific and has a specific meaning under federal statute. Like how you do that. And it has to be that you report either fraud, waste, and abuse, which a lot of people in the
military will be familiar with. And then the other option is that you are reporting a violation of rule, policy, or federal law that you see within your agency. And in my case, it was with the DOJII actually believe that Attorney General Merrick Garland had committed perjury 5 days before I got this e-mail that stated that the FBI would be creating a threat tag. A threat tag is like a hashtag. It's a, a way to identify certain types of intelligence.
And they created this threat tag which said, which was called Edu officials. And my belief in the, in the way that it was written was that it was going to be investigated by both the criminal division, which is fine sort of, and then the counterterrorism division, which is absurd and a problem. And it was exactly the opposite of what the attorney general had
said. And they were going to be investigating parents that were at school board meetings that may have got rowdy, which is a local issue probably at best. They could really, really, really stretch it and call it an Interstate threat case, which is the purview of the FBI. But you know, the FBI doesn't have the resources to do all the Interstate threats that are out there in the world. They barely are able to handle the ones to judges and federal
agents and Border Patrol guys. I've seen them declined when someone literally told a Border Patrol agent, I'm going to come back and kill you. I'm driving back to your station with a gun and I'm going to shoot it up and kill all you and your friends. And we didn't prosecute that. Like, I investigated it and there was no appetite for
prosecution. So the idea we're going to get mad at a dad who says you guys are going to pay for this, you know, loudly on a microphone because he's mad about people doing CRT or, you know, gender ideology to his eight-year old. There's no there's no room for that in the FBI. So that was Part 1. And the second thing was I just said I wasn't going to get the COVID vaccine under any circumstances. And I sort of alluded to the fact that the way they are behaving was Nazi esque.
It's something that is, I don't believe that minor government officials and even the major ones at the DOJ have any business trying to enforce medical decisions on people, particularly with something so experimental is what we're seeing with these mRNA shots. So you push back on the vaccine and you went to a congresswoman in New Mexico, where you were stationed at the time and delivered an internal document from the FBI of from the Department of Justice. Yeah. Or where is it from?
The FBI It. Was from the FBI. It was from the two different divisions. It's the criminal division and the counter. Terrorism division all right and you've said this just looks wrong. This just doesn't seem to shouldn't hold water and seems to be in conflict with what was stated publicly and based on that and you have to use some certain language when you become a quote whistleblower. We hear that that term now pretty much every time you turn
around. Somebody's a whistleblower, I guess if they, you know, I guess referees at the high school basketball games could be considered whistleblowers too. But there's a technical definition within the, within the FBI. So how does that work exactly? Yeah, There's a couple of ways of making what's called a protected disclosure, which is what I was involved in. And the protected disclosure can go through your chain of command. This is going to be any of your
managerial staff. It can go outside of that. If you went to the the general counsel for each division or if you went to the OGC, you can, OGC is the Office of General Counsel. It's the main attorneys that are for the FBI. You can go to the Office of the Inspector General, you can go to an Office of Special Counsel. If there is a special counsel that's convened, you can bring
them information. So there's a couple ways you can do it, but the last way, which is protected by federal law, is that you can bring it to a member of Congress, You can petition Congress for redress. And those parameters are very specific. As I said, it's got to be a violation of federal rule, law or policy and or it's got to be
fraud, waste or abuse. So if somebody is using federal resources, if they are abusing their position or if they're spending money they ought not to, things like that, then you can go those. But you know, it's very narrow. It's very specific to be able to fit into those criteria. And so when you do it, you got to make sure you're in that criteria if you want to get the protection. There's just no teeth in the protection unfortunately, which is why I'm in the situation I'm in.
So you got the you you, but the FBI does not acknowledge that you're a whistleblower. In fact, they've sent you correspondence that says that you're not a whistleblower as far as they're concerned. Correct. But you had a supervisor asked you if you're a whistleblower and you answered. Yes. Yes. So the supervisor asked you if you're a whistleblower. So he had.
He must have heard that. And you said yes, you affirmed it, but when the lawyers got a hold of it, they sent you a letter and said, no, we don't recognize you as a whistleblower. Correct. Yeah. We're, we don't know what we're doing with you, but we're we're trying to do something. Yes. Yeah. In the meantime, you're here in Payson. Good morning. Welcome to the forum. Who's on the line? Hey, it's Dave GI. Want to thank Kyle for standing up. And I thought they, he can comment on this.
Are going to drop the mandate from the federal government. And the next thing is any comment on the Biden's choice of nuclear waste director, that position will be open. Did they really vet that guy that's been in the news? And thank you for your service and thanks for mostly standing up. Thank you. Thank you, Dave, appreciate your call.
Couple questions there. Yeah. So regarding the nuclear waste assistant secretary, I think was the position that's we're talking about Sam Brinson here, who is the the famous human animal handler, homosexual sort of weird kink advocate, I guess was what he was calling. I'm going to call it weird because it's really weird to me.
Women's underwear thief. Women's clothing yeah suitcase thief now twice alleged we're going to say because it was a it's an allegation hasn't been proven in court yet yeah. So in in the case of something like that, and I can kind of kind of flesh that out, it's very interesting. They chose him for senior executive staff, our senior executive service. Those are the top people in kind of the deep state type positions. But the interesting thing is it doesn't require the
congressional approval. And so he was able to be appointed to that job, hired for that job is what you would say. They would have to post it and decide that somebody who had no experience in nuclear energy and, and had a degree that was analogous to it was the right move. And I believe they did that specifically because if he had faced a Senate hearing for confirmation as an Under Secretary or something along those lines, that there's no way
this this goes through. So it was kind of an end around of the process and you know, you know, I know it. Was signaling to a community correct? 100% signaling to LBGTQ question mark plus plus minus minus whatever, all the stuff. And, and by doing that, they got away with putting somebody into a position that probably would have otherwise not gotten a clearance. You can force clearances through if the Senate approves you, but you're not supposed to be able to do that for the SES
positions. I'm confident knowing that people in the counterintelligence part of the Department of Energy who I've worked with, they're mostly former and retired FBI agents. They're highly competent, regular guys. The, the ones I met were all men. So, you know, regular guys just working there in the basement, doing the right work. I'm confident they would have a very difficult time vetting this person in the way that I was vetted to become an FBI agent.
You know that. Security center question was the the the mandate for the vaccine has been dropped. So yes and no. They've dropped it for the military, it sounds like, or at least they proposed that. And it sounds like that's going to get signed. I haven't seen it fully revoked, but that that's the rumblings that have happened. And each department handled the vaccine mandate on its own. And so that's what's very
interesting. But the FBI's issue with me is not so much that I didn't get the mandate, the it's that I didn't comply with what I was told to do. There's a very strong culture of do what you're told. Your loyalty is to the FBI. I have a sort of slightly different belief because I've sworn my life to the
Constitution more than once now. So my belief is that my obligation is to our founding document and the principles that this country was founded on. And those are fundamentally different than what the FBI would would have me do. Sometimes my job is to stand up to the FBI if it comes up, if there is a conflict. You know, I didn't swear to a president and I didn't swear to a FBI director or, or any kind of attorney general. None of those things are really
relevant to what the oath says. But many people that are at the upper levels of the FBI don't see it that way. You recently, well, you've met a lot of interesting people on this journey since you became a whistleblower. You took the information and you, it's attracted a lot of attention from people who are still in the Bureau, people who are in other government agencies and retired agents. But most recently you met with or spoke to telephonically video, whatever you call a video chat.
But you've gotten to know a former FBI agent who had a really strange story to me. It was just, it was almost unbelievable that it could have happened. And he was also, quote, a whistleblower while he was still in, but he he rode out the storm for, what, seven years after he made his first disclosure. Can you capsulize that story for us? Sure. So the gentleman I spoke to is now an elected sheriff in Walla Walla County, Washington State and his name is Mark Crider.
We did a 2 hour plus interview where he basically laid out his story. Sheriff Kreider is a, you know, a former F-14 Tomcat Rio, which is kind of a fantasy, you know, gig for somebody who grew up in the 80s like I did watching Top Gun and you know, he was Goose. He was the guy behind the guy inside the the F-14, which is just awesome. Like it's such a cool platform from from my childhood.
Did that for 10 years. Came out of the Navy as a retired Lieutenant Commander or as a separated Lieutenant Commander, you know, picked up by the FBI at about the same age as me, 35. Went in eyes open with world experience and had seen the, you know, some things out there. Literally been on the USS Enterprise and gone around the world with it. And then, you know, just kind of was doing the FBI thing. He had been in a criminal squad.
He had worked cyber crimes. He was working crimes against children, which is child pornography and really kind of noble work that the FBI does, you know, saw 9/11 happen. He was actually, you know, signed up prior to 911, saw the pre and post 911 FBI, which people say is a very strong differentiation. And then he was also a firearms instructor and a senior SWAT instructor. And he's one of the few master police instructors in the FBI at the time. And, and probably still we don't
have a bunch of them. So he ran around and did, you know, kind of a dream gig. He was back and forth to Quantico. He was doing cool training, meeting with local cops, doing a lot of fun stuff. And one of the people that he encountered as a fit advisor, which is a job that FBI agents take on as a collateral.
You just show up and, you know, run the fitness test for the new guys and for people that are in the office was for this former Army Ranger and Justin Slaby. And Slaby had the unique sort of characteristic of having one of his hands blown off while he was in the Ranger battalion. He had a flash bang go off prematurely, manufacturer defect, and he lost his entire hand in his mid 20s. And so he had this mechanical replacement and he couldn't do much with it other than it would
just balance weight. You know, he could do his push ups, but it was one arm push ups essentially with no hand on the other side. And apparently he did 14 pull ups. You mean he's a total stud? Everyone who's talked to, and I've talked to probably half dozen people now that knew him over the last 10 and 15 years, Paul, everybody says he's a stud.
He's just a, he's a physical specimen and a really good guy and a great sense of humor, which is probably what happens when you lose your hand in your 20s. You just become kind of an interesting character. And for whatever reason, the FBI decided to throw him out of the FBI Academy at Quantico. They put him in this failed training status. They used similar to what they've done with me, where they've taken my security clearance. They put him on a medical hold.
So they weren't getting rid of him. They just indefinitely held him in this medical suspension and said they would reinstate him to being an agent or an agent trainee as soon as he grew back another hand. And as he told, you know, Sheriff Crider, you know, I'm not a effing starfish. Like I'm not going to grow back another hand, which is a great line from somebody that that
obviously knows what it's about. In any case, the FBI special agent in charge of the Milwaukee Division came down and told him that in no uncertainty in terms, he better side in his testimony in a civil case on behalf of the Bureau, which is suborning perjury, which is a felony. And it's also witness tampering because she threatened his job based on that.
And that's a felony. And so the FBI allowed this woman who was in charge of, you know, the Milwaukee field office to commit multiple felonies in front of another federal agent. He reported them. That was his whistleblower
activity and they defended her. She was promoted to assistant director, as so many of these awful people inside the FBI are, and she was allowed, she was found to be guilty of those things based on the preponderance of the evidence, which is the Office of General Counsel standard. And they, yeah, they let her retire. They, they let her ride out until she hit eligibility. She was under basically the threat of being fired for a year but wasn't and retired and walked off of their full
pension. So the the point of the story to me is that Sheriff Crider was served before you ever went into the FBI, and he was, but he was up for a promotion at one point and that didn't work out too well. No, they, he, he revealed to me that we do these things called career boards where they get a bunch of your peers together and they vet you on some interview questions that are kind of like a Standard Bank of questions. And he was voted number one for
a promotion that he had done. But after this case, basically the, the ASAC, the, the assistant special agent in charge, the one just below the woman that he didn't like or that had lied, pushed the pause button on their, on their tape recorder and said, you know, Krider's not going to be #1 hit the play button again. They revoted and he became the number four guy. And so he didn't get the job. And so he, you know, he had tangible damages from that sort
of thing. 9 minutes before 10:00, you're listening to the forum here on KMOG from Payson, AZ. It's our regular everyday program, kind of special. Today, son Kyle is my guest on the program and we're happy to have him here. We'll take a little break, take care of some business. If you're on the phone, be patient, stay there and we'll get to your call right after
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You want to work for Hospitality Wireless? They're hiring. Yeah, you need to be an installer. Could be. I see your guy that does the microwaves, that's interesting you got something. Your what? I want to talk to your son just after the show for a split second. The Dana Law Group will educate and guide you through the entire estate planning process. Wills, trust, power of attorney and probate representation.
You know, estate. That's Tina. Tina Terry. Having a proper estate plan means your assets will be dispersed. She's the Christian with yoga person who's free. Why don't you go to the Jewish Second Amendment thing tonight? At ease. Don't wait. Call them today. Dana Law Group, 928-445-4440. Good morning. Welcome to the forum. Who's on the line? Thanks for your patience, by the way. Not a problem. Charlie. This is Mark. Hi, Mark. Good morning, gentlemen. Kyle, all I can do is praise you.
It amazes me that our federal government will spend well and you're only one approximately $1,000,000 to train you with the technology that you have and then allow you to they just put you away in the closet. I'm hoping that someday maybe you can answer this question that if times change, administration changes, would you ever go back with all your
training? And I will hang up and let you kind of it's I, I hate to put people on the spot, but I'm wondering if you would ever go back into service with the FBI. And I'll let you answer that question. And gentlemen, and once again, Kyle, thank you. Thank you, Mark. Appreciate your call. Margaret, it's a good question. I'm happy to be put on the spot on things like this. It's, it's complicated because the betrayal is, is really where where the pain is in something
like this. It's a, it's an entity. It's not like I got stabbed in the back by a group of people I didn't know and had no reason to trust. It's, you know, the people that I signed up to work with. Part of it is that other agents have not stepped forward. That's not a great feeling. I understand everybody's situation is a little different. I try to be judicious and I try not to judge them. As a Christian, it's not my job. You know, they, they got to make their, they got to make their
arguments in their own time. And yet I believe in the mission. I've always believed in the mission. I wouldn't have signed up if I didn't. And I don't believe that that oath expires. One of the guys that I talked to says, you know, the oath doesn't expire until we do. And so, you know, I don't really have a choice other than to continue doing the things that I said I would do.
And I will continue if, you know, if the opportunity arises and under the the right circumstances where I kind of, I need to see some management change, that's for sure. But I'm not opposed to going back. It was a great job. I never woke up on a Monday morning and thought, man, I hate going into work today. I got called out at 3:00 AM on a on a Saturday night and, you know, I just put on my stuff and told my wife I had to go. And that's what it was. That's the job.
I did it all the time. I got no notice, you know, calls on Sunday afternoon saying jump on a plane and be somewhere Monday morning and be ready to go do work in another state or another city. And I loved it. I mean, that's, that's it's a great feeling to be able to do think you're doing the right thing and, and doing good things
for the American people. And it's a terrible feeling when your agency doesn't have your back on that and thinks that they can't even defend the civil rights of the people that are inside of the FBI. It makes me question how they think they can defend the civil rights of people like you. Let's talk about Congress for just a second. We've got a couple minutes left here today.
The, the, there's a lot that has been made of the Hunter Biden laptop, and it seems to be the focus of the, of a number of congressional offices. Conservative Republicans are, you know, that they're counting the days until they can open the hearings and expose all of that. None of that really would have come into focus if it hadn't been for whistleblowers, people who within the FBI came forward and authenticated the
information that was there. Yes, and, and I think that the fact that the Bureau did its cover up is a big piece of the pie, right. It's not just that this thing existed that's sort of, you know, that was exposed by the New York Post and it was exposed in 2020. Plenty. There was plenty of information that was out there. The nefarious nature is using the the mechanism of government to be able to cover for a
political official. But none of that becomes public unless people are are encouraged to do the right thing to come forward and, and speak out and, and and go to Congress. And that will absolutely cease. That will not continue. I can assure you from talking to, you know, maybe a dozen whistleblowers, they will not continue doing this thing if the liability is that there's no top cover now that the result.
People may not understand. So let's slow that down and, and, and go through it one more time. So the, these, the we, you know, we have already established. So you didn't grow up in a political hustle. I've been pretty apolitical most of my life. I've met people on both parties. Some of them I like, some of them I didn't like, some left, some right, whatever. That didn't make a big difference to me. I try to judge their, the people by their actions, by their words
and by their actions. But within the within the Congress, it seems like there's such as an enormous effort that the whole focus is to become to have fame and fortune to and to continue their quote service to the country by getting re elected and re elected and re elected. And the principles, the underlying principles often times are pushed aside in favor of the expediency of being re elected. You think that's a fair
statement? It seems like it, you know, having an ability to go on Fox News, which is what we're, you know, we're talking specifically right now in my case about Congressman Jim Jordan, who I don't have any personal animosity towards. And I like what he says and I like the way he says it, but he's using, you know, people like me and people like my buddy Steven and my friend Garrett and
a couple of others. You know, I don't want to name everybody, but there's there's a whole host of us that have gone to their office in good faith and said, you know, we need this help. And he was more than happy to go and use that as rocket fuel for the campaign that he was doing, even if he was reassured election. It helped bring along some of the change that we saw in the midterms. And it wasn't what we hoped for in a lot of ways, because I, I did want to see a, a stronger
push there. But if you're going to take people like, you know, our information and you're going to use it as rocket fuel to go get reelected, and then you're not going to use us as your first priority. You know, one of the things is you got to protect your supply line. And if you're not to protecting your supply line, you're going to be cut off in the middle enemy territory by yourself pretty soon. They can subpoena anything they want.
But if they don't know what files to ask for and what case numbers to to request, they're just at the mercy of the FBI as opposed to having people on the inside really say, look, this is where the problem is that forward air control kind of movement where you're directing these investigations. Because we're investigators, that's what we do. We know where the problems are. We know where that where the issues were hidden. We understand the managers that were involved in those decisions.
But if you're not going to have people that are protected, like who's going to come forward and talk about that? If they know they're going to lose their paycheck, they're going to lose their pension, they're going to lose their health benefits, they're going to sell their house and take their infant children and, and move into a place that, you know, they can't barely afford it and go bankrupt on it.
That that's a terrible, it's a terrible plan of attack, you know, for the current Republicans, if they really got to figure out that protecting people's got to come first. And we will continue to give them the information because it's the right thing to do, not because it's a partisan action on our part. It's it's the way that this country has to, it has to have sunlight and transparency. There are people listening right now who have very strong
political connections. They know people in high places. You wouldn't think it maybe, but there are here, right here. Little pace in Arizona are there, have there have any congressional offices reached out to you or any of your friends who are fellow FBI whistleblowers and said, we got
your back, we're there for you? No, not that explicitly what they've said is that can you update us on your situation, which is a non answer to me, you know, as somebody who was in the position to do enforcement actions, who was in the position to do investigations, if I said I was going to do something, I tried to be the guy that did that. So if I tell you, look, we're going to help you, I'm going to do an investigation of this, I'm going to do the right thing.
That's a very different answer then you know, like what's going on with you and you know, those are. Are you still are you still unemployed or are you still not getting paid exactly, still living at your dad's house? Exactly. So these kind of things, you know, they're not reassuring. It's and nobody's made that sort of strong commitment to say like, look, under all circumstances, we're going to make it happen for you. We're going to do the right thing.
And the, the real problem is, is that there's bipartisan support right now for legislation that would actually put teeth into the Whistleblower Protection Act for the FBI right now. That's, that's 5USC23O3. There's no teeth in it. So the FBI has No Fear of, of, you know, doing reprisals against us. They don't care. Kyle, thank you for your service. Thank you for being here on the program today. Thanks for being my son. And I do love you and I'm proud
of you. And I hope that people found it as as we tried to make it. Thanks for listening to the Kyle Seraphin Show. Be sure to follow him on Twitter and Truth at Kyle Seraphin.