Counterterrorism Roundtable with Sarah Adams | SUNDAY Sit-Down | Ep 561

So for you that don't know what a rescue task force is, it's usually a group of firefighters or paramedics teamed up with one to two law enforcement. That team then can go into warm zone type scenes where there's been a shooter, there's no active threat, where there's no shots being fired currently, maybe the shooter's been already, he's deceased, been under arrest, has fled. We can insert these, what they call RTF teams into those areas to go take care of the wounded.

The reason we have law enforcement with them is because most first responders are not armed. They have no way to defend themselves, so it's it'd be unsafe to send parametric firefighters just into a scene with no type of protection because if the actor was to come back they could be attacked themselves and having a way to defend themselves. So the RTF is a group of firefighters and paramedics or EMTs, any type of medical personnel being LED into a scene by some type of security force.

All interviewers have their own style and my style is to try to get to the point and to be intensely curious. And the key to. Is listening. Take a look behind the curtain with a real whistle blower, an American patriot. Prepare to embrace the uncomfortable truth because this program has no time for comforting lies. Here is civil liberties enthusiast, Second Amendment defender, and recovering FBI agent Kyle Seraph. Well, my friends, welcome to the Sunday. Sit down.

I appreciate you joining me. Today's going to be a little bit different. We're going to be doing a panel discussion. It's not something I've done before, so I hope you'll bear with me on the editing on it. I got together a group of people, CIA targeting officer, former security officer, veteran of Benghazi, my buddy Peter Johnson, who does tactical training around the country, military veteran, law enforcement veteran, and a SWAT

medic from the local area. What we wanted to do is talk about an emerging terrorist threat that's not being discussed. We talked about a little bit during the week and the question is, is what do you do if

something like that happens? So we have a discussion about readiness, nature of threat, proper responses, what you might be able to do as an individual citizen, what you might do if you happen to be a law enforcement officer and you need to motivate your chain of command to go do something about it. If you work in the fire department or if you're a medic, if you work in the emergency room, if you're a hospital person, just as a person in the

community, we should be aware that we got to take care of ourselves. At the end of the day, our government's not going to do it. So that's what we're going to be talking about today. And I think you guys will find some value, if not a significant amount of value right up front. Let me just tell you, you can cut any piece of this.

Take it if you can, if it value, if there's any value that is added for your department or for your your area, I'm going to tell you right up front, you can take any piece of this, clip it, cut it, do anything you like. I do not have any issues with people sharing this around and I hope you do. If there's something in here that is a value for you, whether it be at a roll call, whether it be at A at a shift change meeting or something to that effect, by all means take it,

use it, brief your folks. Let's get things. Let's get things moving so that we are not left flat footed in this country. There's something that's happening with food supplies here in the United States. It's not getting a lot of attention. The Chinese have been buying up farmland by the hundreds of thousands of acres. They've taken control of critical supply chains, things like fertilizer, animal feed, farming equipment. Why? It's pretty clear they're tightening up their grip on

global food production. So if things go South, you need to be ready. I need to be ready. And that's why I trust my Patriot Supply. They are America's largest emergency preparedness company. Right now. You can get their four week emergency foods kit and it's going to come with four free 72 hour food kits, an additional 12 days of free food, absolutely free. That's four weeks of delicious meals last you up to 25 years, delivering 2000 calories per day. It's shipped fast.

It's shipped free. We can't control what the Chinese are going to do. What we can control is how prepared we are. Go to prepare like kyle.com today. Get your 12 days of free emergency food along with that four week emergency food kit. Again, it's prepare like kyle.com. Prepare like kyle.com. We're talking about terrorism today. These are things that can interrupt things as you know it. They can disrupt your status quo. If you want to be prepared, make

sure you check it out. The link is in the show description. Prepare like kyle.com. Let's get right into this interview today with my guest panel. All. Right, ladies and gentlemen, So this is going to be kind of an interesting experiment for the Kyle Serafin show. We are doing a live and remote panel at the same time. Got a handful of really competent commentators.

I hate the word experts, but people who know what they're talking about when it comes to medical, when it comes to tactical, when it comes to the threat that faces this country. We're going to get into kind of a freewheeling discussion starting with Sarah Adams, who you guys have seen on the Sean Ryan show and other places as well, former CIA targeter. We're going to be talking with Boone, who is formerly with the with the CIA and the Global Response Service.

We're talking to Peter Johnson, who's the previous guest here. And Kevin, no further information currently on the job in the tactical and medical world, an EMS professional and a paramedic. So we can talk about the nature of what the threat looks like in this country and why we are not seeing local law enforcement even close to prepared for it. Maybe we can get a couple of you guys moving the needle in your own departments, within your own agencies to do that.

So I want to start with Sarah, if you want to do a just a quick background on, you know, maybe a 2 minute intro for people who are not familiar with your background. Yeah, I mean, just really quick, you know, I spent about a decade at the CIA. I was an analyst and then a targeter. Really just simply what that job was. I would locate threats, right? And we would usually capture them, or I would help find people to focus on, to recruit, right, to fill intelligence

gaps. I got recruited out to go to the Select Committee on Benghazi. So up on the Hill, when I was there, I realized that the CIA and FBI weren't actually hunting down the terrorists who actually attacked us, you know, in 2012 in Benghazi. And so that time me and Boone got together and we did our own investigation into the terrorists. So for the last 10 years, we've actually been running an investigation starting in Libya. As you can imagine, it moved to places like Turkey.

And now since the fall of Afghanistan, it's moved to Afghanistan. And so we have a lot of inside information on Afghanistan because a lot of Libyans have moved there in the last few years, among with thousands of other terrorists from different groups. So that's kind of a quick down and dirty in my background. Love it. Let's let's move on to boones that you're sitting right there as well.

Yeah, spent some time in the military, spent time in law enforcement on the SWAT team, spent some time with the Diplomatic Security Service, spent 12 years with the CIS Global Response staff, currently teach farmers and tactics full time. And obviously, I support Sarah in our investigation and then I wipe her eyebrow carrier water, things like that. He's my sidekick. Outstanding what? What? What is the clientele of the people that you're currently

training? So we have open enrollment where we teach law abiding citizens, but then we also teach law enforcement, SWAT teams, regular patrol guys and other government agencies as well. Excellent. All right. And Mr. Johnson? Peter Johnson with Archway Defense before got into this six years with military, two years part time in a municipal PD Wallace finished on my undergrad in criminal justice, law enforcement, then got into the Air Marshall program.

So as an Air Marshall team leader of the New York field office for five years, woke up one day, didn't want to be part of the Fed anymore, so got into the private sector. Similar to Boone. We've actually met a couple times on the road training cops. I'm actually at a SWAT conference again right now. I just broke away for this filming. Appreciate it, buddy. And Kevin, you want to give people just a broad overstroke

of your background? So Kevin, I started out, dabbled in the fire department for a few years, and the last 28 years I've been a paramedic and about 20 of those years I've been on the SWAT team as their tech medic for numerous local, state and federal SWAT teams. Outstanding. All right, So that's, that's who the panelists folks, it's just

general bona fides. Like I said, nobody here is going to be claiming that they know everything, but I think everyone here knows something and we can have a good discussion about it. So Sarah, let's talk about the threat most broadly, if you would and what we see facing maybe the the evolution of it, how far back it goes and maybe proximity and timeline if you could about what we're getting

we got coming our way. Yeah, I mean, to keep it really simple, obviously after the fall of Afghanistan, Al Qaeda was able to reclaim its base in Afghanistan. It started planning a series of events, right? Some we've seen already. They're involved in the attacks in Israel, You know, on October 7th, they supported training to prepare for the Syrian blitzkrieg that happened last November. And this homeland attack is just

a piece of the plotting. They also have similar attacks plan in Europe. We'll just focus on the homeland for today when it comes. The homeland is really interesting. There's multiple phases of the

attacks. The two phases that matter the most is 1. They've actually joined forces with the Islamic State and that's going to be kind of like community level attacks, very similar to what we saw in New Orleans on New Year's. The interesting part, the people forget in that attack, the bombs didn't go off right. So it was a multi modal attack, just the bombs failed. Thankfully for the citizens there.

Now these attacks will be basically in communities like we saw in New Orleans. We do think they'll be multiple phases, right? There could be vehicle rammings, bombings using weapons, for example, that their worst training in certain groupings, 5 to 7 and 8 to 10 man teams, right? That'll be a little different than the single active shooters we usually see. I mean, like even though one in Vegas obviously had devastating impacts and then there is a large scale for the second

phase. What would be the 9/11 attack? We've been calling it the 9/11, 2 point O, and then that goes back to another airline plot. It's very similar, we think to Bojinka. That was 30 years ago. It was a thwarted plot. And then there's going to be basically an attack on government institutions. When we say that, we're talking like the Department of Defense, the Intel community, those type of government facilities. Would it be fair to say that a lot of the things you're seeing

are kinetic? These are not cyber. These are not people who are trying to do information or, or psyop type attacks. These are directly, you know, explosives, firearms, vehicle rammings. Is that kind of the nature of the threat you're talking about? That's the nature of the threat you'll experience. There are some what you might call psyops involved a little bit of there is some influence campaigns out there.

We've seen them around a couple different topics, ones of FIA Siddiqui, obviously some is around the Hamas protesters and we even saw Al Qaeda get involved a little bit in some messaging around the gentleman who is executed in in Saint Louis, for example, trying to bring in the communities around him. So that's really interesting.

Another thing, it's not exactly psyops, but it's the fact that the terrorists are considering going at first responders the way they want to sideline them is to maybe also look like them. So that is something obviously a little different than a terrorists coming straight out with you a gun. And you know that's a terrorist, right? If he's a police officer, I might not assume that right away. So you you laid out kind of a strategy there that I just heard.

And it sounds like that it's coordinated by some overarching group, but then has like a bunch of sort of semi autonomous or, or cell based kind of actors. Is that kind of the way you think it's taking central direction? But then once people are kind of set in motion that they're, they're, they're set off on their own path of, you know, probably not making it, but doing as much damage as possible. Exactly. So this is a plot directed by Al Qaeda. It has Bayern from ISIS, senior Shura.

And when we talk about those localized community attacks, yes, those attackers know the city they're supposed to attack, but they have freedom to choose the targets. The aviation plot is a lot more detailed. They have to work go on certain airlines at certain times. As you could imagine, that's a lot more coordinated planning. So, so it is different things. They're basically taking the thought process from the Mumbai attacks. The Mumbai attackers, you know what, 15 years ago now have

freedom of choice. You know when they went, you know, into the city and you know, went to the, the train station in the hotel and they could choose how they did their tactics and, and even what type of tactics they used. So. We're talking like a choose your own adventure once you start of launch onto the path kind of deal. Yeah, just so you can have.

There are other attacks. You know, so if your target, if they told you your target let's say was this hotel and you go to the hotel and there's not much going on there, you're not going to have much impact. Will the attacker gets a choice, Let me choose another target where I could have more impact or cause more fatality. So it's a very interesting concept. And, and that's the the entire goal. This is not like a tactical mission. There's not, I guess that's the

question I have too. Is it in fact something that we're trying to see a movement of just terror just keep people and Americans like sort of on their back foot? Or is there some sort of political goal 'cause I grew up in an era when when terrorism was supposed to actually inspire some sort of action Like, you know, get the United States out of fill in the blank country or leave us alone or, you know, reduce sanctions or some garbage there.

Is this just 100% just, you know, sort of like violence and mayhem? No, those localized ISIS style attacks are actually to divert law enforcement's attention to look focus on ISIS, focus on smaller attacks. So they missed the large 9/11 2.09 eleven. 2.0 has multiple aims. 1 is obviously in honor of the death of Osama bin Laden. 1 is basically to honor all the terrorists that they felt were impacted by the US intelligence or law enforcement.

So like the people detained like a Gitmo or across prisons in the United States. And then the last piece is basically to bring failed plots and to honor failed plots and bring them to fruition. So those are their goals now, their goals on the community levels.

They want to bring in an audience like which what happened in the Hamas attacks where people said, yeah, let's take it to the America, yeah, this is a resistance, yeah, bring down this government that's causing all these problems overseas, impacted all these people, detained them for these 20 years, didn't give them from justice. So it does have that political piece that we usually look for. And I imagine it's probably a recruiting tactic too.

If you have success, then you can get more people to sign up for your terrible ideas. Yes, they they luckily have. They're the largest they've ever been. They have no recruitment problems right now, as you can imagine, because of the success of taking Afghanistan and now taking Syria. Fair enough.

Mumbai was mentioned. Can we do a refresher for those people that do not follow international events, The classic American problem that we think everything ends when you get to the tip of Florida or you know, ends at Seattle. Let's talk about what Mumbai was and what lessons were learned and the response from it and what was successful and what wasn't maybe and we can maybe open this thing up a little bit. Yeah, I mean, Mumbai was basically like 10 terrorists.

There was a high level selection process. You know, they were all chosen for a reason and basically nine of them fought to the death, right? They held down a very large city. I'm not sure, Mumbai is 2030 million maybe for days. It was basically they held ground.

So they held ground in like a, in a famous hotel called the Taj Mahal. And the really interesting thing is they had communications among the attackers and they were watching how the police were responding on the ground, sharing the information and making different movements in the hotel, which made it last longer. Another thing that was really interesting in that attack is like when they went to the train station, they were supposed to

plant bombs. They said this is going to take too long, There's so many people here, let's just shoot them, we'll kill more people, right? They have that freedom of choice. Another thing that was really interesting is how they infiltrated the city. They actually came via boat. So there's just a lot of creative things used in that tack. We did see some of it go roll over into October 7th.

A lot of people don't know the terrorist group that plan Mumbai, Lashbay Taiba. They actually are the ones who designed the paraglider cross-border plan.

They did it years ago. They never got to put their attack into motion, but then obviously was taken on and used very successfully in Israel. So there's a lot of these things from over time among these groups they decided to share now that they're working together, especially they're Co located in Afghanistan. So we're seeing a lot of interesting tactics among the groups start to crossover and it's making them more successful in these attacks. Is that a product of social media, Internet

interconnectivity? Because I don't remember people sharing, you know, this didn't work for us, but maybe we can shelve this plan and reuse it later on. That didn't seem like something I grew up hearing about people doing. Yeah, it actually is basically because they're Co located in Afghanistan and now even Al Qaeda has put some of these terrorists in the military Commission and in the Shura. So like Lashkar E Taiba's leader, Hafiz Mohammed Saeed, he's a senior advisor in the

homeland plot. So they're Co located together now in Afghanistan. So they weren't Co located previously there in different locations. So a lot of that's changed as this new terrorist camp infrastructure has been rebuilt in Afghanistan. It's become the base of multiple groups and al Qaeda has invited multiple groups. Come here Headquarter will build new camps for you. You'll be safe here. OK, I want to break it real simple.

And then I'm going to go to the the the gens sitting here to try to talk about maybe what the tactic looks like to address this thing. So very simply a phase one. What kind of targets are we looking at and sort of numbers of, of teams. You have a a sense of that.

We know they trained in five to seven man teams and eight to 10 man teams and we know at least four of the items they trained on. They trained on basically like supermarkets or shopping complexes, nightclubs, churches, and then kind of like public transportation, that type of infrastructure. Have you heard anything about hospitals, which I'm hearing people telling me about hospitals as potential targets? Yeah, they actually also trained

on hospitals. The interesting part is there is some threat reporting coming out of a couple of the ISIS camps. Obviously it came out via via human intelligence. But yeah, there is some targeting against hospitals and we look at it a little bigger than hospitals is actually sidelining first responders as the goal. Now will the attacker decide the hospital is the first responder? Will they attack a police station like they did in Israel?

And also in Israel they basically set up on the roads and waited for first responders to come and attack them while responding, right? So it's basically an attack on 1st responder. So it's kind of a lot broader than just the hospitals. OK. So phase one, small units, we'll call it small unit tactics, whether it's 4 or 10, I don't think the response is significantly different other than you need people who know to handle multiple, you know, attacking targets coordinated

against those types of targets. And then how many would we imagine that those would happen. And then also, if you don't mind the, the degree of confidence that you have that this is, you know that your Intel is solid on it. Yeah. So we're pretty confident that al Qaeda made this deal with ISIS, right? We're pretty confident these attackers will know their cities and have choice. We feel that it's about a

handful of them. That's kind of the level of what we feel to know the exact targeting of those mid tier city localized attacks. We are have a lot more confidence on the 9/11 2.0 attack because that is the big attack. All these other ones are almost like a tease or a diversionary, or they're waste law enforcement resources but still cause harm. Got it. I, I had a Green Beret I was talking to who referred to it as a tactically achievable goal, but wasn't necessary for the

final mission. To be able to achieve is like some of the things you might do. It's a distractionary kind of thing where yes, they can go out there and have great effect and at the same time, whether they're successful or not, they actually are still fulfilling the goal for what needs to be done. In other words, drawing people away. Yeah, if they all those attacks, they could still do the big 9/11 1, right? It's they're not. They don't rely on each other.

If that makes sense. And then OK, so we'll get to the the bigger one first. Let's talk about, let's talk about the issues that exist. Boone, you're doing training right now, Peter, you're both doing training. You guys are dealing with law enforcement and and folks all around the country. What is the level of readiness for something like this at the moment? And I'll let either one of you take it over.

Boone go first. So from what I'm seeing, the level of readiness is extremely low, not that they're not capable. One thing you run into is budget and time. And then 2A, lack of imagination. Law enforcement historically is reactionary and they don't change until something happens. Policies usually written in blood. So right now everyone's focusing on traditional law enforcement

problem sets. But then when it comes to like active shooters, they're dealing with that one shooter, it's usually someone unstable, some whack a doodle. They kill as many people as they can, law enforcement shows up, they either kill themselves, law enforcement kills them or they give up. And that's the extent.

But there's no real training. And I and I can't say everybody because there have been some very squared away teams, but for the, for the majority of law enforcement, they're not training with imagination and preparing for multiple attackers in multiple locations all at the same time. Yeah, and to echo that Boone, I'm literally I've been to three SWAT conferences in the past month and I'm asking people I'm like, hey, talk to me about mission planning.

Are you guys even table topping Mumbai style attacks, multiple attackers ambushes on cops, like the cop counter ambush thing. That's generally one person, an anti police person shooting at a cop. That's quite a bit different than a small team tactic lane waste to a police station. So in all the travel, I mean past couple 100 cops I've trained and the couple thousand I've come in contact with the

trade shows. To your point, there's a couple teams that are locked on, but they're such a rarity. It's they're not ready for this scale if this happens that most PDS, most teams are not ready for this scale by any. Would it be fair on both your ends to say that the readiness level for local law enforcement is low? Nationally, we're pretty comfortable with that assessment. I, I would say not only on the local level, but to include the federal level as well, correct.

And I know the federal guys have a way more resources and they're generally head and shoulders above some of the local agencies. But even on a local level, they're not taking this type of threat, or even on the federal level, they're not taking this type of threat serious. Sure. And and and even best case scenario, you're still limited on the federal resources.

I mean, you look at my old agency FBI, you got 14,000 agents, you got 100 that are in the tactical, you know, full time tactical, only one team is up at any given time, another one in a training scenario. So you got 30 plus guys and maybe they can deploy, but that's probably one to two sites tops in a in a small geographic area. And even. The ability to do that, you're always resource landed. Right. And even best case scenario, how long is it going to take them to

respond? Well, this was, yeah, this was one of the the situations I brought up with the, with the current director right now. It's like, why are we not doing the same mission idea where we set people up in, in time zones? Why would you not try to move your mission and, and say in the same way that you have, you know, teams that are in the, the SF model where you look at some people are focused on certain

types of threats. So you've got an airborne team, you've got your dive team, your amphibious type stuff, you've got your cold focused, you've got your, you know, different terrain functions, whether it be a high altitude or, you know, different types of approach in law enforcement, you're not going to have quite the same thing, but you might have a land mission, you might have a water based amphibious mission for the for the coastal cities. And wouldn't you want to locate

them geographically? So they actually have access like a nullus Air Force Base, you know, a Kansas City or something to that effect or a tinker Air Force Base. And then you could obviously still have something close to the national Capital Region. But the fact that we basically throw all of our resources where the big federal government dollars are, it turns out to make it ultimately ineffective to to respond to anything in real life, it seems like.

So we've got a solution and you've checked the box at the management level, but is it a functional solution? And then more importantly, has it ever been tested to your to your awareness, gentlemen, either one of you, do you know of a single like I know they created the hostage rescue team for the FBI and a lot of the tactical models come out of the idea that they were going to try to stop something like they saw now why is it why can I remember the German?

The Olympics. The Olympics, Yeah. Munich, Munich, Munich. Thank you. Yeah. It's like sitting right there. I'm like, it's not Berlin. You know, we, they they basically were doing a response to Munich and they, and with the the Los Angeles games approaching, and I want to say it was in 1982 and they thought, OK, we're going to be ready for that. But that never materialized.

And there's never been a real stress test of that particular animal to deploy nationally, as far as I know, like, not for a big counterterrorism threat. And you would know better than I would, but not for a counterterrorism threat. But that unit is very proven, you know, in other hostage

rescues and in no doubt. That you note about, about what I'm getting at is more like if as the mission evolves, and I think we've kind of gone to an evolved mission, we're not going to see a bunch of American hostages on US soil at a big Olympic Games or at a sporting event or something. That's just, that's just the not the nature of the threat. Tell me if I'm wrong there, Sarah. But that's just not what people are looking to to do. That's a 1970s Nineteen 80s model.

Right. Yeah. And we haven't even seen a focus on the stadiums. Like they sell it like ISIS did a lot of it during the Olympics. But there wasn't really good planning to actually do something. You know, in this last Olympics in Paris, it was more trying to inspire people to do something. It would be a much faster mobile animal. OK. I want to also address the capabilities of EMS, which is why we have Kevin sitting on

here. So I'm going to ask him real quickly if he can kind of address what he's seen in let's say Texas, which I think is a pretty forward thinking area when it comes to EMS. You want to talk about maybe readiness if you guys have table topped anything like this before

Kevin? Sure. I mean there are some local agencies that train for active shooter, but like Boone and Peter said, we're usually training for one to three patients, pretty small groups because that's what we've seen in most active shooters we've seen there's very small groups of people that are injured, normally less than 5 patients. So we don't train for the big events when it comes to explosives. We don't train around explosives hardly at all.

So you add that into the picture and it, it really hamstrings almost all EMS because we don't go around those type of places. So we'd be left, you know, mile, 2 miles away waiting to be cleared by a bomb squad or something like that. The other problem with a lot of the local EMS is, is I think about 30% of all EMS is run by private ambulances. Private ambulances are there, they're there to make a profit.

And when it's you're there to make a profit, you're not going to spend extra money for vests and training and stuff like that for attacks like this, it may or may not happen. So they look at it as they're not going to train for it until these events happen. And like I think Boone said, it's always we're reactionary. It happens. So now let's plan for it if it ever happens again instead of pre planning for it the first time.

So with EMS, as I'd say, you know, the ones that are government agencies that have the funding, they do do some training, but not extensive. And it's usually a small group of patients and not a big vast, you know, attack with multiple attackers. When we talk about like mass casualty events, I don't think I've ever seen a mass cache simulation with multiple sites. You'll see multiple patients, like you said, the five or more whatever where it's going to

exhaust all your resources. But have you ever seen a multi site, you know, progressive sort of event training that went like that? We have done a few that are multi site but within a like A1 block area. So like two or three houses in the general area, but not like two or three different sites across the city where you're you're draining the entire city of resources at once. Usually it's a localized in just a couple different buildings. That checks out. OK.

So that's the scope of the problem for people to understand what it is, which is tremendous. It's essentially a complete, a complete dart board of random locations. What you said, small to mid sized cities. Is that what I heard Sarah? Is that kind of the thought? Yeah. For the for the first phase or whatever you want to call it, those type of ones. And that was actually chosen to be impactful because they want you to feel it if you served in the US military.

And they think those are the type of cities U.S. military people settled in and retired to vice, like New York City, which is a very interesting concept. So they want the military who served in Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan to feel in their cities what they felt like they felt in there. It was a very interesting concept. OK, I can at least understand that motivation. I guess that makes a lot of sense of why.

Give me some examples of what's what is a small to mid sized city from the folks that you know what your Intel base would call that because maybe we have different animals that we're looking at. So it's like Albany, NY, Tulsa, OK, Tempe, AZ and then we have seen some very strange things in other places like in Arlington, VA. We do think there is a Virginia targets in this. We do think there's New Jersey targets in this. We think there's New York, but it's not the city targets in

these. So, and then obviously it was a little larger, but New Orleans was a little bit of the feel as well. How about Montana? Any Montana targets? Nothing that we heard. Peters laughing, 'cause I just want to move to Montana. I just, you know, the rest of the country, you're on your own. We're going to get out. We're going to get out and be safe. Nobody wants to. What about Texas targets? I'll tell you is. There likelihood of. So we have not heard Texas.

The interesting part though with Texas is they want the terrorists to settle and have attacks near locations where they blend. Obviously we have had large immigrant populations from some of the nationalities we think are in the homeland attacks settle, especially like Houston example. So we aren't ruling it out because it's going to probably be one of the bases where some of the terrorists live prior to doing the attacks. So blending becomes part of the the ability so that they can get

longer planning. So having a native community, we're seeing a lot of movement and I think people in Texas have been very, let's say, tuned into this. There have been purchases of large tracts of property and building of mosques and, and communities. Somebody showed me recently a map of all the mosques that

exist in the Dallas area. I've seen the same thing in the Houston area and so on. So there certainly are some places where people might blend in more, but nothing like what they would do on the on the East Coast, especially like, I can't

tell you. People would tell me stuff like, oh, you know, I know this guy at this mosque and I'm like, yeah, I know where to sit to watch that mosque because I've been outside of all of them when it comes to anything that's in like the what's called the Eastern seaboard where my team used to

operate. Peter, I want to open up and kind of give you an opportunity to respond to what you think this you, you've been fantasizing about a training opportunity to try to, to push to local law enforcement and to motivate their command structures with not just like here's the problem, which I think we've addressed that there is a problem and there's a, there's a gap there.

You want to talk about what that solution might look like and and how you start going about even taking apart this this animal. Yeah. And as anybody who's been in the combat arms role, just to hear this possibility of an attack in the States, you can imagine very quickly how resources to Kevin's point would just be drained instantaneously.

So the my biggest concern is again, going around training law enforcement on firearms and all the other stuff we do is having these conversations, which kind of prompted this, this round table was I'm not hearing anybody mean have any meaningful discussions on what they can actually do. I mean, even the concept of zone coverage where you have your patrol cars and if there is a an event, having whoever the unseen commander is. And that can be just whoever

takes charge. Making sure that you're not overwhelming the scene with unnecessary resources. Once you have a pulse on it and start pushing squads out into the region so that you don't get sucked in and you have the classic 500 patrol cars all from every mutual agency on scene, which at certain point somebody has to be an adult and say, do we need more people or do we? Is there a chance something bigger is going on? And how do we deploy those resources to a zone coverage, if you will?

So from a high level, just that conversation, I'll, Boone and Kevin. Yeah, I was going to say, Kevin, did we not create this with NIMS? I imagine you're a NIMS like commander or you have a high level NIM certification. Yeah, that's The thing is, is I'll start with it. Fire department EMS usually do

good at command. But when you throw law enforcement in there, when you start talking IC to commit in command to law enforcement, it's a whole different conversation because they do it a totally different way. And a lot of their command is actually on scene in the event and they're not a true IC in the outskirts where they can blend with fire and EMS. So we've always had those

issues. And I mean, it's, it's just part of it because a lot of these law enforcement agencies, they only have 3 or 4 patrolmen on at an at night in the smaller cities. Well, that means your, your senior officer that's going to be in command has to be on scene. So blending the, the command is very difficult and it overwhelms these small departments. Then they need help. So they call basically for anybody that can come.

Well, that point in time you're getting every law enforcement agency, any guy that's ever had a gun in the last 10 years shows up on scene, some in uniform, some not. So then you start getting confused on is that law enforcement? Is it not? Is he undercover? And it it really does. It overwhelms the scene and you end up with 5060 police cars there when it really ends up being a non event.

Is there a practical way to practice this sort of thing to to try to to try to knock the dust off this idea? I know a lot of the local agencies we deal with have really been harping on it that if you're not asked personally to respond, to stay out of the call because they've noticed it. Certain agencies, you'll just hear the call broadcast it did not even be requested. And they'll start responding because, I mean, it's the nature of the beast.

Everybody wants to help. I mean, they want to get in there. And so they've been trying to preach that, hey, if you're not needed, please do not come. And they do their best to get people to leave the scene, but we're all about the same. Once we're there, we're kind of stuck and everybody wants to see and get all the details before they they clear the scene. So it it's hard.

Sarah, does that not open up like a an opportunity for follow on kind of attacks as as you were kind of saying that the law enforcement attack piece? Yeah, it's very concerning, right, because part of the plot is to sideline first responders. We haven't exactly figured out what their intent is. But as you know, if you've especially we're talking about Afghanistan where they train, they will do this right. They will set off a bomb, first responders come and then they do

a follow on attack. So, so it is very concerning and we need it to be clear to law enforcement. Like, you know, he was just saying people may show up and you assume they're law enforcement and they're not the attackers, right. And we've recently had cases of this, of al Qaeda doing this in Somalia. I don't know if you saw the video a couple weeks ago, but the senior commander was giving the rally call to his troops,

right? They're going to go out and fight al Shabaab. And one of his own soldiers walked over and shot him in the head. Well, it wasn't a soldier. It was just a man in one of his soldiers uniforms. If they had looked closely, he didn't have even the right weapon that they were issued. But nobody really was paying attention. And those little things matter, right in these situations.

One of the other problems we've been seeing locally is I mean social media is sometimes our worst nightmare is some of the school stuff is when it hits social media every parent shows up. They gridlock on call the streets. So not reality. Even if we wanted to clear the scene we can't because of all the follow on people that heard about the call. They block all the streets. Not terrorism, but the West fertilizer explosion in West TX when it blew up.

That's The thing is everybody came to help, but they gridlocked every street in this small town where nobody could get in or out. And most of the patients actually had to be flown out because there's no way to get them out by streets. Yeah, there's another concerning issue too. If you're talking about cities, it's this concept of walkaways, right? Like an attack happens, people get paralyzed, they abandoned their vehicles and it blocks the road even if they weren't

intending to get in the way. And so we have to keep that in mind too and have a plan for that. What do we think this plan looks like, gents? I think it starts with table tops, mutual aid table tops between EMS, fire and police with mutual aid.

And that just takes egos to be dropped at the table to say that if this happens, no one of us, no one entity can handle if it happens in our jurisdiction mutually because they all have mutual aid agreements where city one and City 2, if something happened, City 2 will come in and help city one.

So getting all of your mutual aid partners together and literally just starting on a very high level and Kevin Boone chime in. But I think getting that tabletop because that's nothing happens until you get all the egos to drop and say if this happens, what can we actually manage with the resources and time we have? Now you're absolutely true. I mean, we've worked really hard on getting all the neighboring cities and departments around us to work together. And it's, it's crazy how many

years that takes. But some of this I've been working on for 1015 years. Just to get people to talk about the time you get to where you think you haven't solved a chief of retire City Council changes over its mayor's change. Then you almost have to start some of the talks over and convince them of what you're trying to achieve. It's just it's kind of this constant rolling plan that you never can quite get to succeed because of just turnover.

We, we've been, Sarah and I, along with Scott man, we've been looking at it from a bottom up approach, starting with the community and having the community support each other and then going up to the local and the county guys supporting each other. Then going up to the state level. The state's being self-sufficient until federal resources can get to them. So we're looking at it more of a bottom up approach and starting with that community and then going outwards.

But to your point, there is a lot of egos, if you will, within the law enforcement first responder community. And that's always going to be a big hurdle. Like hey, who's in charge? Well, it's in my city, I'm in charge. No, it's the county. You know, it's our problem. We're not going to have time for things like that. Even like Nims, it's awesome for a long term huge incident. These are going to be fast-paced, multiple incidents over long geographical

distances. So we're going to have to be much leaner and have decentralized command where we can just take small little groups, hey, you guys are going to handle this. Hey, that group go over there. So we really need a cultural shift when it comes to the law enforcement first responder mentality, if you will, in my opinion. So for folks that are not familiar with it, NIMS is the National Incident Management System. I think it's what it's called.

It's a, it's a incident command idea that was that was launched after 9-11 to try to get people on the same frequencies, to get people on the same sort of terminologies, to try to get 10 codes and some of these sort of obscure ways of communicating. So it was more plain speak over the radio. So if you had to have your newest dispatcher on, they weren't trying to figure out what some guy from 25 years ago

used to call something else. And every single department might have a slightly different code for what these for incidents look like. So you just have to call them as they are. If you got to go to attack channel, so be it. You go to something that's encrypted so the public can't hear. But the idea was to try to to make something functional.

And the problem is, is that's a really great system and it's a really great solution, like you just said, except nobody practices it. The only time that you ever dust out that dance is when everything just kind of goes to shit. And then you realize like exactly how little practice you have at it. So it's like trying to go out there and run the most complicated play that you have in the entire playbook with the

most the most number of players. And you're going to do it without ever having even seen each other. It sounds like, and you guys correct me if I'm wrong, Kevin, you may be a good sort of piece on this one. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like what we need to see is our the, the people in the communities going to community meetings. They need to go to City Council meetings. This is the, the community kind of appeal and saying we see that there is this problem.

I heard it on a podcast, I read the newspaper, I'm following it on fill in the blank news program, whatever it may be. We would like to hear our city do it. And by the way, this is what we're recommending. Our Fire Chief, our EMS captains, our folks in the the Police Department and the Sheriff's Office all get together and talk about what those resources look like. Kevin, does that sound like something that would ever happen? Oh absolutely.

I mean, we all know that politics drives a lot of the stuff we do. So when the politicians hear about it, they pressure the local law enforcement, EMS and fire to solve the problem. So until they think there's a problem, they don't pressure us to do, you know, fill our plans. But luckily we, we've been doing our best to train for, like I said, the last 10-15 years for stuff like this. But obviously we don't train for a huge events, which is what's

might be coming. We train for the smaller events. But they said we've been lucky to have the support that we do and where where I work. But there's a lot of departments that don't have that support. And I think Boone, you said it right with the NIM stuff, it is great for large events, long

events. But when you come to these short events, if you try to fill all the roles and Nims, you run out of people before you even have anybody to go and do any of the actual patient care because everybody's filling a role in command and you don't have anybody, you don't have any soldiers to go do do what you need them to do. So Nims is great for wildfires, huge events. But for these smaller attacks, we would, we don't even really get the Nims. It's all local IC.

And I said unless there's a long event, it just doesn't really come into play. But like I said, until we get pressure to train on Dems, we're not going to do it. Peter, you're in the, the training space and one of the ways that you, one of the things that you illuminated to me, which made a lot of sense is that everybody's got money for gear and gadgets and, and they have budgets for equipment, but they have no money for training. You found an interesting end

around on that. Are there any other people that are doing these kind of trainings that can, you know, offer resources to law enforcement or even to fire and, and EMS? I mean, Boone's doing training also his guys. There are a lot of good training companies out there. And I mean, part of getting this group together is simply saying what can we put down and give away is like a white paper on how to pull your head out of

your ass for a terrorist attack. Pardon me, but like here are some easy steps that you can take charge of your to Boone's point, it's a local, the local solution fast because the Fed's not going to push this down. By the time the Fed figures it out, we'll be on the next phase of Homeland 3 point O and it's they're never going to move as fast as local. So motivating your local Sheriff's Department, your local fire department, your local city to take charge.

I think that's that's going to be the fastest way to make any impact in this, especially to Sarah's point. If the expectation is that this possible attack could be within the next 12 months, Sarah, is that reasonable? Yes. OK. Which is Kevin, you know, right? Yeah, nothing. Nothing moves fast in EMEA. Yeah, at all reality with it when it comes to stuff like that, if I was going to need something for next year, I should have put it in budget

last year. So you're looking at two to three years to get training budget if you and even equipment, so like 12 months, we're already behind the curve. If we don't have the equipment now and the training in budget now, then we're behind the curve because like I said, we can say today, I need this training, I need this equipment, it'll go into budget next year. So it would get approved in 2027. So we're we're behind the curve if you haven't already started the process.

But like I said, never too late to start because you never know. But you got to start as soon as possible. Yeah, you. Have concrete steps. You have concrete steps, though. Let's start with like the law enforcement end of it. What does that look like from let's, let's talk about a basic like somebody who's working as a patrol officer or they're working as, you know, a

frontline. If they're a detective or something in that, then we'll do management and then we can step into like what we can see pressure for police chiefs and, and leadership and, and management at that level. Yeah. And Boone, jump in, But I would say if we're going to do concrete patrol officer, if they listen to this, first step is bring more awareness. Literally start opening your mouth and your PD and talk about like have we looked into this? Is this something that we're

even ready for? Starting with that, Boone, if you want to jump in? Yeah, I think if you don't have the resources, like like you already mentioned, just starting the conversation and playing the what if game, like, hey, I don't have the resources, but what if this did happen? What type of solutions can we come up with that's better than

nothing and, and starting there? But I, I, I don't want to sound too bad because I've been a law enforcement officer myself, but there's a lack of personal responsibility when it comes to law enforcement. If I'm not on duty, if the agency is not paying for it, I'm not going to training. And you can't do that. You have an obligation to the public to make sure that you yourself personally are prepared to serve the public and yourself, you know, and your

partners. So some of this responsibility goes back to the individual officers as well. They might have to take some vacation time to get the proper training. They might have to take some of that hard earned money which they don't make enough of in the 1st place to pay for their own training. But a lot of this training honestly doesn't cost money there. There's guys who might be in that agency who have the training and they can share it

for free. Just a couple guys getting together and I hate to say looking on YouTube, but there is a lot of good information, good how to videos on the Internet. It's hard to sift through what's good and what's not, but there's some good stuff out there to where you can just watch a video and then give it your squad and say, hey, let's think about this, let's try some of these things and and just start doing things on your own, even though you don't have that budget.

So I think a lot of personal responsibility has to be put on the individuals as well, not only the agency. So one of the ways that somebody can go just individually take ownership of the problem. And I think that's exactly

right. I, I saw it in local and state and federal, you know, federals, feds are probably the worst at it. You know, if nobody pays for it, I'm not going to do it. I'll wait three months or three years to get a belt because I don't want to, you know, spend $80.00 out of my own pocket kind of thing, which is a terrible mentality. But you can go out there for free while you're sitting on a surveillance shift, while you're on a patrol and you're riding around.

You can listen to a podcast on how to deal with explosives. Specifically, how do you deal with explosive wounds and injuries, which is not something that you're going to necessarily know if you're a, if you're a street cop somewhere, it's not something you're going to experience. If you don't have like a major chemical plant nearby, you may not know what to do about explosive injuries and how to deal with those things. So you can listen to things

credible. I know off the top of my head the PJ Med cast is very good and it's educated by a lot of wartime experience of guys going in, grabbing people in the worst case scenario and, and doing some really, really ugly medevac, you know, sometimes even, you know, under fire and so on. So you can go out there and get some real world experience from guys who are high level medics and trauma physicians from the Air Force and so on.

That was out transporting some of our our worst wounded in the G Watt and get that for free. It's free, it's dry, you can listen to it in 2X. You got to listen to it about 10 times before you grab it all because you know, Kevin knows if you just listen to something without actually putting hands on, it's not quite the same thing. But you can take ownership of that at the individual level.

And while you're doing it, you're doing the second thing, which I think you guys both just mentioned. You're thinking about a potential scenario. And when you put yourself in the mindset like, oh, if something happened, what is my response? You're already going to be less flat footed than if you were going to go, hey, I'm just sitting here, I'm drinking coffee, I'm peeing in a bottle, I got binoculars. And then one day something crazy

happens. Like someone puts a gun to the back of your head and you've never thought, what's your response to that? When you're thinking through what happens if there's an explosion? What happens if there's a train wreck or gets derailed? What happens if somebody runs into a bus and knocks it over or someone shoots up a school? You already are going down that mindset of like, OK, well, these are going to be the things that I have to do, but these are the things I don't have.

I was joking with guys. You guys tell me what you think about this. This is like Kyle Seraphin's crazy ideas. I was doing an alert training and Kevin and I were talking about this before we went live about alert something. I trained how to do a lot of law enforcement officers. This is the standard response to active shooter and we got to do it in a school. And so we cleared a bunch of buildings really, really fast.

You're doing what's called direct a threat to go through the door trying to find where's the shooter, who's causing the bloodshed and how do we stop it? Most patrol officers are not armed with flash bangs. Is that your experience, gentlemen? 100% it would be an extreme rarity if they were. OK, so nobody's got a flash bang, but what you could do is you could buy like a dozen super bouncy 1 inch rubber balls for like 10 bucks or less on Amazon

and put them in your dump pouch. And if you had a bunch of rubber balls, I can tell you this. If I threw a rubber ball through the doorway in a, in a hallway that I was about to go in, if I'm in a school hallway and I sent the rubber ball in, that's going to hit chalkboards, bounce off desks, you know, hit maybe a person who makes a noise, that's going to give you the same, you know, it's going to give you a not a superior distraction and

it will give you a distraction. My buddy was like, you should carry chickens with you. I'm like, dude, if I could carry a chicken, throwing a chicken through an open doorway would be very distracting if you had to enter a room, you know, because all you're looking for is just a little bit of a purchase where your training and your experience comes in. So thinking things like that outside the box, it's very

inexpensive. Your department's never going to pay for super bouncy balls, but you probably could buy like 10 for everybody, you know, for like a couple of bucks if you lost a bet kind of thing, you know, at roll call. So something to that effect. I just want to kick that as a just one of those ideas that's kind of outside the box. We call it the Chuck E Cheese Flash Bang. I guess that's right. So individual ownership of the

of the problem, yeah. So feel free to riff on that as much as you guys want, and then we'll try to step up the chain a little bit and see what we think for the next level up. From a aircraft analogy you brought up the Bojango spot with that was Youssef, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah, it was Ramsey and Youssef. Yeah. Which as in the aviation world, right? Put your own mask on before you help someone else.

Great analogy here. Clean your own house as an individual officer, as an individual firefighter, as an individual paramedic. Get yourself in the best shape, the right mindset, get competent, become better at a skill set on the lowest level and then inspire, help and help people up alongside of you have those conversations.

I think if you put your own mask on before you help anybody else, and that by the way, that includes heaven forbid if it does go to October 7th style house to house in tight knit communities. Making sure that your actual family in your home is locked down so that you can have clarity of purpose in the field. That you don't have to be checking your phone being like, is my family OK?

Because you put the mask on, your mask on, their mask on, and now you can actually go go do work and add value. Yeah, well, Kevin. Will you talk about rescue task force a little bit from the individual, let's say firefighter slash paramedic, EMS type one, What they can do if they don't have rescue task force to what the rescue task force looks like maybe and and how they can advocate for that with their own either chain of command or they're they're

politicians. Sure. So for you that don't know what a rescue task force is, it's usually a group of firefighters or paramedics teamed up with one to two law enforcement. That team then can go into warm zone type scenes where there's been a shooter, there's no active threat, where there's no shots being fired currently, maybe the shooter's been already, he's deceased, been

under arrest, has fled. We can insert these, what they call RTF teams into those areas to go take care of the wounded. The reason we have law enforcement with them is because most first responders are not armed. They have no way to defend themselves. So it's it'd be unsafe to send paramedics and firefighters just into a scene with no type of protection because if the actor was to come back, they could be attacked themselves and have no

way to defend themselves. So the RTF is a group of firefighters and paramedics or EMT's, any type of medical personnel being LED into a scene by some type of security force. We've seen it around the world before. Really. The RTF, the alert training, it was hours before they got EMS into some of the victims. These, you can watch some of them on video. These people bled out over 20-30 minutes and died while watching

on security cameras. If we could have just got first responders and they're quicker to care for them, they possibly could survive. And so that's what the RTF model is, is getting first responders into those scenes quicker. Yes, we train all the law enforcement to do medicine. But if it's you laying there bleeding out, would you rather a cop that's done it once come to save you or firefighter permit that does it daily come to save you?

And so that's the the model of the RTF is getting in there quickly with trained medical personnel and plus with law enforcement that's in one of those scenes. If it's an active scene, they really don't have the time to take care of all the injured people because they should be hunting down and securing the scene. So that's kind of RTF model. If you haven't already trained on it, Holly, you should really get, I mean, alert has training. There's all kinds of agencies that are doing it.

Reach out to some of those agencies. Get on the bandwagon is great training. It not only works for like active shooters, big threats, it works on almost every scene. If you start getting used to use an IC using these RTF models, any type of scene, you could use it on a bus wreck. You get to a bus wreck, a couple firefighters team up with a couple medics, they go in, they triage, they treat, they become an RTF. There's just not a threat. So you can use it day-to-day.

You can use it, you know, on those active scenes, but it kind of helps you your day-to-day business and you know for the big if it ever has happened in your area. So Kevin, what is the amount of equipment that's required for an individual medic or a firefighter to have? And then what are the odds that it's actually getting funded?

And then maybe I'll move to Peter, since I know he's got some gear background on if that's something that somebody could individually fund it and solve that problem too. Sure. So obviously I come from a governmental type agency that, you know, they, they have a budget and they try to stay under it. And so a lot of times getting equipment isn't always easy. Luckily we've, over the last few years we've received lots of

funds. So we've been able to provide every single paramedic and every single firefighter in our area with a vest. So if they go in RTF they have a ballistic vest on. How common is that, you think? That's becoming more common. But like I said, for private EMS, I can almost say that most of them probably don't have won't have one and don't have one because I said, why would a private agency spend $1000 to put a vest behind the seat of an ambulance when they're trying to make money?

So that's just lost funds for them. So they don't want to spend that money because they obviously they have hundreds of ambulances like some of these private agencies do. That's 10s of thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars that they'll lose. So we keep it pretty simple. We send our medics in with very little equipment. We just send them in with stuff to stop bleeding, tourniquets, quick clot, chest seals, even some needle decompression stuff for if they have some type of

tension pneumo. But minimal skills goes. Like I said, 10 years ago when we did this training, we sent our medics in with whatever they wanted to take. So you get paramedic, all this tools they want, they take in monitors and airway bags and stuff. And we were seeing that it was taking 1015 minutes per patient for them to triage and treat these people and we'd have 5-6 patients total. They'd take them over an hour to get them off scene. So we took all the toys away.

We get them very minimal toys wherever they get in there and they use what they have and every single person we send in has the same amount of equipment. So they have two tourniquets, 2 chest seals, 2 quick lights. If they run out, they look to their buddy next to them who has the exact same bag, the same numbers. So everybody going in has a small cache of equipment, but on a big scale we have a bunch of equipment and there's just divvied out per person. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.

One of the things that I like to also highlight to people too, which you guys may have heard this and maybe haven't, I remember sitting through an after action that was talking about the Pulse nightclub shooting. And there were what, 49 casualties on there, 49 people that were killed during that attack, but seven of them actually died, not from their primary wound, but from positional asphyxia, which means they were just stuck against a wall. They were crouched down.

They ended up succumbing to shock and they, they basically just crushed their own Airways. And the, the salvation for those people would have been literally moving them and putting them in the recovery position and they would have actually ended up surviving that attack. And seven out of 49 is a huge number one in seven people could have been saved by literally pulling them off the wall. You can imagine shots being fired, people trying to get very small.

And when they did so, they actually blacked out and then ended up just crushing their own airway until they succumb to their injury. So all of that is kind of wild to think that it doesn't take a lot. I think Kevin's up point is very well taken running in the more you give paramedics, the more they'll use, the less you give them, the more they're going to just treat life threats. And most people are used to what's what's the call? It's either grab and go or stay and play, right?

Absolutely, and we want them to grab and go. It's a hard mindset to come sometimes push into people. What So if they're if, what do we think about the the idea that local law enforcement Peter would be even capable of taking a, let's say a Sue Espante type of medic who who sourced their own problem, who works for private or maybe they're in a volunteer department, which I think there's a lot of those as

well in this country. Volunteer department popped up and law enforcement officer gets this guy says, Hey, I'm ready to come with you. I'm willing to go into the hot zone or the warm zone, even though I'm not armed. Like Are you ready to do like a like an RTF type thing? I Again, the best time to have that conversation is before you need it. It's the the problem again with all of the law enforcement first responder everything the private

sector. Obviously you can't compel the private sector private companies that I mean, you probably won't even see them until you call the scene cold. But for let's take firefighters. You have a part time firefighter or fire department and literally this is a very easy thing to do when you're on patrol is go talk to your firefighters and say. Just out of curiosity, what would it take us just to get this going? So if we're in a warm scene, I bring you up, we have somebody guarding you.

You start working on people and we start pressing into the scene. You're not, this isn't the first officer on scene. It might be the 10th officer on scene, 8 of them already pressing deep into the building. And there's easy people to get at the at the entrance of the building. This isn't unreasonable, but if you try to have that conversation on the scene, it will never happen. This stuff can.

The fact that we're all talking right now, and if you're listening and it hasn't happened, this is the perfect time to start the conversation. And you're absolutely right, We've actually run into that on a couple calls in some of the very rural areas we run with is we didn't have enough medics and they just picked up a volunteer at the time who thought they were out. They kind of trained them up on

scene. They thought they were good for it. The minute the first shot fired, they locked up because they got scared because probably the first time they've ever been around gunfire and they just, they locked up. Nothing on them. It's just it was new to them and they got scared. So if you train it and you're around at least once or twice before the the event happens, leisure slightly prepared for the day when it happens. Boone, what do you think?

Yeah. So there there's different components to this from a law enforcement perspective, obviously the teams need their their terms, you know, their tactical medics that go with them. I like the concept of the what you call the RTT where they're unarmed, but they still go into the hot zone. I like that concept. RTF yes, yes, I like that

concept as well. But when we talked about from a bottom up approach or a community approach, we're looking at training as many people as you possibly can stop to be bleed, you know, TCCT, triple C, whatever you want to call it. That includes like on a high school level, you shouldn't be able to graduate high school if you don't know CPR, first aid and you know, stop the bleed.

It should be a requirement. The more people on a community level that can provide as a force multiplier basic life saving skills, it relieves the burden for law enforcement, for first responders, EMS, firefighters to focus on other things. So if we look at it as something we can make scalable, start with the individual.

And I know everyone's not going to run around with the first aid kit, but just starting with those capabilities on a community level, then looking at the first responders, you know, on the local level, county level, then the state level.

So we're dealing with multiple problems and that's kind of how we have to look at it. Like from a law enforcement from the first responder perspective, yes if I'm law enforcement I want to stop that threat first, but I should have the ability to save someone's life with the skill set and the kit on my

body, not in my vehicle. From the fire and or EMS perspective, yes I need units that can go into that hot zone and deal with these situations while law enforcement is moving to contact to eliminate that threat. But then on the community level, taking that individual responsibility, we need individual civilians to be able to provide life saving aid to each other. And to touch on that real quick, we'll stop the bleed. We've done a big push of stop the bleeding in Texas.

Actually, they passed some laws, I believe is law that every student that goes to high school should take stop the bleed. They're supposed to be, they have to or they found some loopholes because of obviously a lot of kids didn't want to take it. They didn't want to be pressured that instead of that they have to take it has to be offered.

So every school that's offered, but most kids don't take it because they don't have to. And so the the bill got pushed through it. It was, you know, good intent, but you know, there's always a loophole and they found the loopholes and it's just got to be offered, not taken. But there was a push for every, I think you even started middle

school. Middle school or high school age students were supposed to have have to take stop the Bleed while in school, but it turned into a a choice instead of a have to. It's a step in the right direction. Absolutely. But to Boone's point, it's the other people have said it before. Be your own rescue, especially if you're have a family, if people are going to be looking to you. So do you have the capability as

an individual right now, today? Do you have the the training and equipment to stop a critical bleed or at least slow it significantly until you can get professional medical care? If the answer is I don't know, or, umm, maybe it's time to take a very inexpensive Stop the Bleed course. Learn how to use a tourniquet. Learn how to pack a wound. Learn how to use a chest seal. I mean those three together, Kevin, I mean, what else? Yeah, you had a touch on that.

I mean, obviously we teach all our law enforcement stop the bleed and sulfate bloody aid because obviously you can bleed out from a femoral bleed in less than 3 minutes. It's probably going to take me 3 minutes to get to you if I'm on scene already. So for the general public, if you have a significant bleed and you're waiting for me, the paramedic, to show up in 8 minutes, you possibly will be

dead before I get there. So if you can't treat yourself, treat your family members, you're not giving me anything to work with. I mean, obviously we have lots of tools to try to salvage bodies and salvage patients, but I have to have something to work with. If all the blood is already bled out before I get there, I have nothing to work with. So those, those community projects are huge for us. I mean, that's why CPR is so

important. If we run on a patient that there's active CPR before we get there, there's such a greater chance of me getting that patient back. If there's zero CPR, there's almost a zero chance of that patient coming back. I. Was going to say it's very easy for folks to to find a March video. It cost you nothing to go out there and find something to do a March assessment, which is the acronym that we teach for trauma assessments. We're not talking about medical here.

We're not talking about you come home and there's a 75 year old person who's falling down the stairs and they're not breathing. Like that's a different animal altogether. You don't. There's all kinds of complications, but in a traumatic event where something happened and an otherwise healthy and otherwise functional person is not functional today, there's a thing that you can go out there and do.

And you know, I, I know Kevin will back me up on this one, but what is the first thing they always teach you when you get on scene? What is the number one thing? It's the number one fail for any of the national registry. I don't know if you're talking. About scene safety, right. So scene safety is the number one thing. They always coach you. Yeah, you got to know scene safety. I always tell people that the first thing that happens is before you consider the scene

safety, just go ahead and panic. You might as well do it 'cause if things are really bad, if, if you are in a, on a, on a situation where people have been shooting, where there's an explosion, where something is on fire, where a vehicle is flipped, if there are people that are their lives are in danger, you will eventually panic if you're a regular person. So you can do it before or during or after. And I choose to do it before and get it out of the way. So I just look at it and go

like, that's terrible. Like look what that, that's the craziest thing I've ever seen. There's a bus full of nuns and it's on fire. Like then what do I go do? And then you start going through and if you have patience, you can go through the March assessment. There's the M is always massive hemorrhage, which is what Kevin was talking about for bleeding out. But I actually always add move as the number one thing. I do 2 Ms. which not everybody talks about.

But again, it's the same story that would have saved people's lives at the Pulse nightclub, another terrorist event. It's the same thing that will let you not do CPR next to a toilet or make you deal with somebody who's bleeding out in the middle of an active roadway. You can move your patient. You don't have to treat people where they lie. A lot of us forget that 'cause we get very, very focused in.

So the first time that you've thought about helping somebody who's either bleeding or or trying to die on you and you're going to stop it, it shouldn't be the first time that you've ever thought about where you're going to do it and how you're going to do it. And so even just even just listen to a podcast. Like I said, the PJ Med cast is a really good one for the March assessment as well. It's very short. You can do it in like 15 minutes and every patrol officer should do it.

Everybody who has kids should do it. You're a bad father if you haven't. I'm just going to go out there and say that you're, you're not doing, do you know justice to your family if they think that you're going to react to something dangerous if you have not actually thought about it before. And every one of us and every mom has done it to every single mom in the world has the worst fantasy of something terrible happening to their kids that keeps them awake at night.

So what are you going to do about it? Are you going to just Daydream and, and think that it's terrible? Or are you going to go out there and say, OK, well, I'm going to put some steps and some actions. I'm going to go do some research instead of watching, you know, Alex Clark's podcast about the, the new bread mill that's grinding up grains like my wife is, you go out there and figure out how to stop a bleed. It's something it cost you almost nothing except a few minutes of your time.

And, and that's step one, which is showing that you actually care. Do you guys want to talk about like maybe the management concern? I think Kevin and and Boone and and Peter could probably weigh in on some of that and maybe Sarah, maybe some of the buzzwords that can, that can push people towards, hey, my command needs to make a bigger decision.

I'm in the middle and I'm facilitating the frontline officers or medics concerns and I'm going to funnel it up in a meaningful way that actually get some action if that's feasible even. Yeah. I mean, one thing I could bring up that would get some people paying attention is the fact that there is pieces of these plots with suicide bombers. We haven't had suicide attacks in the United States. That's one thing we're not

prepared for. And another thing is within the suicide vest, there are reportedly chemicals. A lot of our agencies aren't even prepared to deal with the right hazmat situations when they respond to this. So they need to be prepared if they think maybe a suicide vest blew up. How do we respond in that case if we don't know what was in the vest as we're rushing to the scene? And what sort of quantity could we even be talking about? If it's man born, it's got to be

a smaller kind of area, right? Yeah, these vests are very small, like, like the ground ones are just the one that airplanes are like, right? OK, so nothing like the Sri Lanka backpacks that they did? That were, yeah, these are pretty large, Yeah. This isn't going to put a huge crater in the ground. No, but we can't exclude those either though. Yeah, because TATP is too easy to make and they use it all the time actually. Yeah, So what what does that conversation look like going to

management? OK, fine. The possibility of doing a hazmat plus explosive, that possibility of individual shooters or small teams. And you know, your medics need to work with your your cops. Your cops need to know that they're going to be able to bring a medic because otherwise you're going to have more casualties. How does that conversation happen at a mid management level? Again, the, the IT comes down to a really easy conversation.

If it happens here and you knew about the possibility of it and you did nothing, how are you going to be comfortable with yourself when you go to go home at night? Like let's, I'm not saying the sky is falling, but if you're going to, when you're in the, let's say you're a patrol Sergeant, you hear the podcast and you're like, I'd really like to get something moving on this. There is a duty in law enforcement to be like, OK, I know we don't want to change.

Nobody likes change. But if there is a new attack methodology and it is plausible, right, that it's happening all over the world, we know that it's the real thing. There's been, I mean, Farouk, the shoe bomber, Richard Reed, there's been suicide bombing attempts actually in the States quite a bit, but nothing to the large scale attack of multiple bombers intermingled with shooters and stuff like that. But what's what is the harm in simply saying, can we tabletop

this? Like, let's say it never happens, great, everybody high 5. But what's the harm in table topping it right now? Because Boone, you know, Kevin Kyle, you guys know there's always time at APDI. Don't care what PD it is. There is always time. Maybe not at any hour of the day, but there are plenty of times where there is literally nothing going on and you could find time for a tabletop. Or even if it's like 5-10 minute online training, something you

assign to your entire troop. If nothing else, people gives them a snippet of what they might see. And most people that are in the profession or professional, if they don't know the answer, they're going to go researches. So if nothing else, it triggers them to go research it further. And then you start those processes where you get middle management, the officers thinking about it. If you ask upper management enough times, nobody wants to be

the squeaky wheel. But in all reality, if you ask enough times, usually you'll get permission to do it. And if you get enough people back in you, you'll get permission to do it. And so there's little educational bits. It gets strikes interest and people understand it gives them a little bit of education and hopefully they further their education somewhere else. Boone, what do you think? I think you guys have good

points. Also think I agree with a delivered indifference or, you know, liability, the liability monster is always a good motivator. But, but going a little deeper, like if, if you can talk to the command staff, say, hey, this is just leadership training. You know, if, if we can handle this, regular law enforcement problems are easy. So kind of selling it as leadership training too. It's like, hey, we're going to come up with this crazy elaborate plan.

You guys as leaders, how would you solve this problem? You know, kind of push that angle as well. But I agree with you, it all starts with the conversation. So setting something up and selling it as a thought exercise, being able to demonstrate here's here's a topic for a management meeting. This is what we could do as a problem solving exercise. And then by the way, push it out to your your frontline supervisors. And by the way, here's a couple of medical training podcasts we

think are useful. Here's something that either our frontline officer should be considering when it talks about how to troop wounds. We should be doing that anyway. We should have the ability to save ourselves. That's a good idea. Same thing your fire station, your guys that are doing shift change when A changes for B or B for C, it's like, hey, this is something we're listening to.

This is a tactical problem that we might have to find ourselves involved in. You know, who do you know over in the, in the, the Police Department that you met at the softball game where you guys all call each other a bunch of wimps or whatever it is that that the fire and police are always doing. You know, how do we take that that natural rivalry and turn it into something that's productive and the people that we have contact wise.

And so everybody on every shift should, you know, especially the smaller places. There's no reason that people do not know officers even in my small time that I did working with fire departments like you know who the officers are that respond to the things in your area. And if you don't, then you should because this is not a difficult thing to do. Often times those sync, those shifts sync up enough times that you can at least recognize some of them. So being able to make that kind

of cross. So the first time, as I had a Ranger instructor one time who told me you never want to try out a new dance at the prom. It's a good way to look like a fool. And if you remember that as as the the worst case scenario is you're going to go out there and try to do something that you've never done before and you think you're going to do it. Well, we all know anybody in the training space talks about this. You almost never rise to the

occasion. You nearly always fall back to the level of your training and, and what you've actually considered and some of the things is just considering it. It's just a thought exercise. Like you just said. It's like, hey, what if we walked through this? How do we solve it so that when that problem comes up, you go, well, this is similar to that thing that we solved, except there's a couple of new parts and this is maybe how we handle that. Peter, you look like you're

ready to chomp ahead and. Go the body can't go where the mind hasn't been. It's one of my favorite sayings that anybody who's been in the profession of arms or the profession of caring for people, if you haven't been mentally table topping, you're before a convoy, you're like, what could all go wrong on this, right? If this happens, what do we do? If that happens, what do we do? And it's not always contact and maybe it's just a vehicle breaks down, then what's our plan on

that? Or flying, especially with terrorism in the aircraft is our job was to get get the bad guy at altitude. So OK, if this guy doesn't get out of the lab and we know the timing is within this many seconds and this many seconds for the average build for a lab visit, If this guy doesn't get on the lab, what's my first course of action? What's my second course? When do I breach the door? Right.

All these things. And as you start going through there, every time you put a mental Rep through, you are exponentially better than that person who's just a mouthpiece sucking down coffee and collecting a paycheck. Run the mental reps because the body can't go where the mind hasn't been. So put your mind there. Yeah. And another thing that's really important when we talk about suicide vests, but not being large vests is just a simple concept of standoff, right?

It's really simple. You can implement it, do it right. It's it's going to save lives. Yeah, most people I was, I've been asking the bomb question. Most people outside of the bomb techs, right, the EOD guys are the, the explosive breachers. They know this stuff pretty well. But I'm like, let's let's assume HE 5 lbs of HE, What is your minimum standoff just for blast over pressure, not primary, secondary, tertiary mechanisms of injury. And most people are like, I have

no idea. There's literally an ATF bomb chart. You can look it up and save a copy on your phone. Be like, if it's this big, be this far away. And this is something that, So what you're saying there, some of these resources are all in one place. And maybe that's what our, our, that's what our duty is here that we're providing a little bit of a talk through. This is a, this is a, you know, like a free spooling kind of idea.

But I like the idea and I know Peter has the, the mentality to do so. We pull that one page because I know for a fact that medics get it in their hazmat section, which is not significant and they don't ever touch it again. But every time that they recertify it, every time they're doing continuing education, they get hit with a hazmat. But I don't know that every law enforcement officer has that.

So this information does exist and it is spread about, but it's most likely not in the individual that is going to 1st encounter that threat. But it can be available to somebody with a high school education. It doesn't require an advanced degree to know how far back to stand because of fill in the blank chemical to fill in, you know, because they let everybody have this access.

If you're a trucker and you drive with certain things you have knowledge set that maybe other people don't have and it is accessible. So dot has them, ATF has them when it comes to bombs and chemicals, having a one sheet on each of these that wouldn't take much to carry around a little flip book and it would cost almost nothing for some admin person to be able to do it on light duty. It's like, oh, cool, you, you, you, you hurt your knee. I got a buddy right now who's on a hurt knee.

You hurt your knee while you were chasing down a subject and get into a fight. No big deal. Your job is to print off this eight page little booklet and laminate it and put it on a little D ring for us so we can have it in the patrol cars. So that when something crazy happens and you find out like there's a dude and he's down at our school and he's threatening to blow himself up and you're like, holy crap. I've actually heard about this

scenario before. This is not the first time I've thought about it. And it's not just because I watched it in a horror or a movie somewhere or some kind of an action movie, you know, where John Wick goes and takes a pot shot with a handgun at 300 yards and knocks him out because that's not how it happens in real life. In real life, that guy probably detonates if he if he's decided

to do so in this country. But having that, that combined knowledge, maybe that's what our, our maybe not a white paper, maybe a, a walkable list of a couple of things sharing those skills. Kevin, do you, do you remember the last time that you did a hazmat and whether or not that stuff was included? I mean, we rarely do hazmats. I mean, there's so much protection in the trucking industry and stuff nowadays. Most of our hazmats are like a

diesel leak. So there's not a whole lot of toxic chemicals out there just because they're protected pretty well. We use apps, the Cameo app on our phones. You can look up any chemical that was ever made. So if you can get numbers, I think the biggest problem is a lot of our medics and stuff, when you tell them bomb making materials, they have no clue

what you're talking about. All the different types, they wouldn't even know what to research because they just look up, OK, all bombs are the same, you know, they just think it's one chemical when we know there's tons of chemicals how to make it. And I think that's a lot of the problem is just they don't have the initial knowledge to even know what to go look for. Yeah. I think the as far as on explosives that the easiest way to go is to take suspicious versus unattended items.

Suspicious. If you're in one of these attacks, homeland attacks, whether it's an ISIS or Al Qaeda or whatever it is, and you have blatantly out of place items that are at high traffic areas. Or it would be, it looks like it could be at the rally point for where law enforcement is staging. Then simply look at the size of the object and then you can extrapolate that into a possible yield because you can only fit the weight of explosives into a

certain thing water bottle. I mean, you can't fit 20 lbs of explosives into this water bottle. You just you can. So you look at the object and then you equate the object to a size of possible HE yield. Now, if it's low explosive, you're better off because it's it's not going to do as much. But if you always assume high explosive, HE is high explosive, then there's low explosive. Low explosive is like gunpowder kind of thing right? Or fireworks. High explosives is C4.

Maybe we wrap this thing up for people's attention span, but we do so in a way that maybe like a a tight couple of minutes where people if that if I put this up front and and let them have something to grab onto. It's like I want to have in turn, Sarah hit the threat. Boone, if you'll, if you'll hit frontline officer stuff, Peter, you'll hit management and then I'll have Kevin kind of do like EMS.

I'm looking for takeaways from from the gentleman as far as like action items for people to go out and do Sarah, if you can as as keenly and as tightly kind of layout the thread that people are going to see. I know the background of it is fascinating and there's plenty of talk on that, but I think I think a lot of people can't track networks. They don't know who you're talking about.

And, and we've, we've proven that with people's attention span, they either have the ability to listen to three hours of you going into the deep network or they've got no, no network ability at all. They can't, they can't fathom listening to any of it. So let's see if we can do threat in phases one more time and then we'll do reaction to it and we'll keep the two of you on screen for a SEC. Perfect. Yeah, When we're talking about the threat, it's very simple, right?

There's two phases. You can one, we call it where you live, work and play, right? These are community level attacks. Small teams, let's say 5 to 10 man attackers. They could be doing attacks in multiple locations, let's say, where there's a supermarket, where there's a hospital, etcetera. So you got to think through that on public transportation.

Then, you know, like we experienced on 9/11, the terrorists are focused on another attack at that magnitude, and it's going to be very similar. They're going to have the similar type of targets, aviation targets, right? So think through that. If there's another ground stop and you got separated from your family, you're stuck in Iowa, right? Taking a long leg home. Like, what was your plan with your family if you're not there for a few days?

And then on the last pieces, the tiers are going to target our government institutions and government facilities. And as you know, that's going to freeze the entire system, right? So so expect delayed responses is expect not having all the information you need. But you can still, you know, take care of yourself. Don't panic and have a plan all. Right. Boone, I'm going to throw over to you individual parent or grandparent community level

stuff. What are the action items you see people being able to walk forward and accomplish without any kind of special resources? Situational spatial environmental awareness. Having some type of plan, having a plan for their family that doesn't involve the the the breadwinner or the leader of the family. And then really refining their medical skills and integrating within the community, whether that be a be a face of faith-based organization, a Kiwanis Club, whatever that is.

And start from the ground up to be resilient as a community. I like it. And then I'm going to go to Peter. We'll talk about individual officers, like the people you're talking to and what you're advising those guys, since I know you're doing that every day out there talking to cops, like what are you telling cops they need to do? And and then we'll go and do the EMS access. First, first and foremost, look into what Sarah has been presenting.

Except that evil is real. Except that the body can't go where the mind hasn't been. Start table topping. Start bringing awareness to this. You have a lot more power as an individual officer in your entity than you give a credit for by simply speaking up and saying, hey, have we actually looked into this? What do we do? If X? You can do that in roll call and you can change a lot by just simply having the courage to step up and speak and say, are

we prepared for this? And we all know the answer that no one is. That's perfect. All right. And I'm going to go to Kevin. Kevin, let's talk about what does it look like on your end to your, your individual, let's say St. Medic, your firefighter types and then I'm moving through the chain there. So if firefighters and paramedics, if you haven't already accepted the alert model with the RTF type of training, please seek it out.

Learn what it's about. Like I said go to your admin, a lot of classes are free, they're state funded. If not, reach out to other agencies that are doing it and at least start the ball rolling. All those RTF to like I said you can transpire anything you learn in one of those classes into live bombing, into a bus wreck, anything. So all those mass casualty type scenes, train on them. When it comes to chemicals, any type of chemical you can see in some type of attack. Research it.

It's easy on your own. We all know we are busy running calls, but I think like Peter said, there's always time and take the time to research that stuff. If you haven't gone over blast injuries in a while, research them. Try to figure out what it's about. The like you saying the different size of bombs, what's your standoff? And on the community type level, Boone hit it is go get your stop

the bleed training. Learn how to take care of yourself, become a stable person that can handle your injuries yourself. So when I arrive I have something to work with. What are the the best websites that you would recommend for people to go and look at if they

want to refresh themselves? And obviously that the professional websites are one thing, but can, if you want to just refer people where they can tell their community, especially stuff like alert, things like that, you want to kind of just plug a couple of things. So Alert is a state of Texas. There should be a website. You go to the Alert and they have all different types of classes you can take Most of our law enforcement and some of them are for first responders.

So for all the people in the field that are, you know, first responders, go to the Alert website, Stop the bleed is a national campaign. Go on the stop the bleed website, locate local instructors. There should be a list of them T triple C classes, TEC classes, all those that's a NAEMT hostos. You can go on their website and look for instructors in the area that are offering those classes. Those classes are, you know, 8 to 16 hours.

So they're they're a little more expensive and they're a lot more time consuming. But stop the bleeds. Most of those are free and you're looking at two to three hours of your time to get them. A lot of agencies are doing this for free around just for community events, so reach out to those people in those websites and you should be able to find something. Outstanding.

Peter, do you want to plug any resources and then let people know where they can find you if they've got questions and you do stuff with faith-based communities as well and all that. So if you want to punch it out. Yeah, on our end, obviously anything from us at Archway Defense, any of the social media, reach out if we can help you. We have a ton of free resources. Last time I was on we were talking about faith-based giving away free PDF on how to spin up a safety and security team.

We can't be everywhere. But if you take initiative like Boone was talking about, like just stand up and start taking the the self initiate your own protection. Archwaydefense.com Reach out to us anytime. Fantastic. Boone, Sarah, anything you guys want to plug in and resources you think people should know

just. Yeah, The Gathering Storm book by Scott Mann, A lot of things we're talking about, he puts it in a book form where you can lay it on, you know, your your lieutenant's desk and start that conversation. And it guides a lot of these conversations and it doesn't really give answers. Those answers are up to you to figure out. But it does start that conversation and it gives you some of the things to think about. Yeah, and. That's it. It's called the Gathering Storm,

and it's at tfpineapple.org. It's the Task Force Pineapples putting it out. Very good. Can we order those by the cases? I feel like I want to give them out as I drive around. I've already sent him a question on that they're having. There's the it's faster to get the e-book right now. OK. OK. But that's something that's available by e-book. And as you said, that's not the solution. This is the question.

The solution is going to be, it would it be fair to say individual to each individual's resources, their community, their terrain, their culture and so on. It's going to be different depending on how dense your population is, your response times and everything else, what equipment you have. So everybody has to individually inventory those. Is that more or less accurate guys? Absolutely. 100% all right. I think we're going to call that right there.

I think that's that's enough information for people to absorb. And if they have more questions, we'll put links in the description. Anything that's been discussed as far as websites, folks will put them down below as well. So you guys can click through all the guests on all the social media platforms if you like.

And if there's something you want to clip out of this that is valuable to you as a person, as a faith community, as a business, if it's valued to you, if you are in a law enforcement or a, any kind of agency that's working in government, just take it. Just take it. We don't care. That's not what this, you know, the idea is, is that less people are left unaware of a potential threat out there. And you know, God willing, it never happens, but I don't think God willing is a plan.

I don't think hope is a good plan. I think you guys would all agree with me on that. Having seen people say God forbid I have to do this. I always say God, God put me in the position to respond properly when when something happens. So hopefully that's all of our prayer, our prayer of readiness. Thanks to all the guests for joining us. Thank you, Peter, thank you, Boone, thank you, Sarah, thank you, Kevin for being here in the studio with me. And God bless all of you guys.

God, that's the Sunday sit down. Thanks so much for joining me. I hope that was informative. I hope you took something away from it. And like I said, share it with anybody that will get them ready. The more people that are prepared for anything that may come their way, the better off we are as a nation. Thank you so much for listening. Listen, if you guys are enjoying what you hear, make sure you're subscribed to us over at rumbleitsrumble.com/kyle Seraphin.

Make sure you've liked the video. Make sure you're subscribed to the channel if you're a rumbler, if you are on YouTube and many of you are at youtube.com slash at Kyle Serafin. You can find us on X at Kyle Serafin as well. Like us over there. Subscribe, set the notifications up so you know when we go live. If you want to support the program, you can always go to locals. That's going to be Kyle serafin.com and you can actually get this interview a day early.

Also, you'll be part of our little, our little chat community there. And lastly, Spotify, it's Kyle serafinshow.com. If you want to share with a friend. We'd appreciate if you did. It's great stuff. That's the easiest way for us to grow. Thank you for listening. I look forward to seeing you at 0930 on Monday or whatever day of the week that you are watching us. We'll see you there in the live chat. Hope you have a fantastic day. God bless you and we'll see you

again real soon. Thank you for listening to the Kyle Seraphin Show. Stream live weekdays on rumble.com/kyle Seraphin. Follow Kyle on Twitter, True Social and Instagram at Kyle Seraphin.