#187 Dr. Becky Kennedy: The One Thing You Can Say That Changes Everything

You Know, They're Like Explorers in the World. I mean, That's Like How I Think About Teens Like That's What Their Job Is Their Job Is To Explore They're Trying To Figure Who They Are Their Job Is To Go Through This Kind Of Identity Formation Phase And I Also Think A Lot About Like The Difference Between Like An Explorer And An Nomad And I Feel Like The Big Difference Is An Explorer Has A Home Base. But What I Always Want Parents Of Teens To Know Is Like Your Teen Still Needs You In The Most Intense Way And They Will Come Back They Need To Know You're There Right Like Knowing When You're Exploring

That Your Home Base Is There, Like I Think We All Know, Feels Very Different And Checking For A Home Base And Feeling Like It Has Disolved Right? And That To Me So So Much About The Connection Of Teens And Parents During These Really Trickier Years.

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Check out the show notes for a link. Today, my guest is clinical psychologist Dr. Becky Kennedy. She's simply known as Dr. Becky to the millions of people around the world. She's the author of Good Inside, a guide to becoming the parent you want to be. In this conversation, we discuss the eight most important words you can say to your partner or child when they tell you anything that's hard.

Setting boundaries, effective apologizing, regulating emotions, both our own and teaching our kids how to do the same thing. The importance and step-by-step guide to repairing after a blow-up with your kids or partner. Addictions, specifically around kids and screens and video games, building confidence and resiliency, and so much more.

After re-listening to this conversation, I was struck by just how much of what we talk about applies to kids, partners, co-workers, and ourselves. Stick around at the end for my reflections. It's time to listen and learn. The Knowledge Project is sponsored by Metal Lab. For a decade, Metal Lab has helped some of the world's top companies and entrepreneurs build products that millions of people use every day.

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Let's start with a common term that we use as adults and as adults we use with our kids. But I don't know if I have a really good understanding of it, which is what is a boundary? So here's how I define a boundary and I define it this way because then it's something I can actually assess and I can know if I'm setting one or not. So to me a boundary is something we tell someone else we will do and it requires the other person to do nothing.

And so the reason I really, really like that definition is because we can then afterwards say, okay, well the thing I did, did I tell someone what I will do and does it require the other person to do nothing and almost always be say, no, like I actually kind of was asking my kid to clean up.

You know the clothes and their floor, which is something we all have to do. I would say that's a request. We make requests of our kids all the time, but learning to really differentiate a request from a boundary is critical and it saves us from the frustration and the cycle of my kid isn't respect my boundary.

And this person doesn't respect my boundary and to me, the way I think about boundaries is someone kind of quote might not respect my boundary, but if I am setting a boundary that is dependent on what I'm doing and is not at all dependent on what someone else does, then I really retain a lot of power and I really like that perspective. So what would be an example of like a boundary and a relationship that you have with your partner or your spouse and a boundary you might have with a teenager.

Let's start with like a moment of frustration where we're for you Shane like where are you frustrated with this. So where do you hear you're like, oh, people tend to like get frustrated want to set boundaries in this way. People disagree on what to do on a Friday night. Great. That's great. Okay. So let's say, you know, I tend to be tired at the end of a week and I want to go to bed early and my partner's like, but I really like to have dinner together and I want to have time together.

But I'm so frustrated because my husband comes home at like nine o'clock and expects me to like cook dinner then with him and all of a sudden it's 10 and I'm exhausted and I want to connect to right. But here's a situation. So I think what we might do is we might say, I really needed to be home by seven.

Like can you get home on seven on a Friday and then that's a place where we could cook dinner together and then let's say my husband rolls in at nine and I'm like, what the heck like I told him to have dinner at seven and like he didn't do it.

And he never listens to me. He doesn't respect me and we tell ourselves all these stories to me. I would say in that situation I was making a request of my husband was making a request and most of the time in our relationships, by the way, we can't always set boundaries like we do make requests and hopefully our relationship is strong enough with someone, which we can talk about where they would, you know, when they can honor our request, right.

But I'm making a request because the success is dependent on my husband coming home at seven, which he just did not do. Here's a very different approach, which I don't always recommend taking, but sometimes we have to take if we feel like we keep getting in situations where we're kind of really unsatisfied. I'd say, hey, the last couple weeks we talked about you getting home at seven or trying to you keep getting home at nine.

Look, I don't want to end up in that place again, where then I get tired and I get resentful and again this fight. I just want to be very, very clear. I would love to have dinner with you tonight. I really would. And I know for me, if you're not home by seven, cooking together and having that connected moment, it just is not going to then happen in a way that feels good to me.

So if you get home by seven tonight, I'm so excited that we can have dinner together. And if you come home at nine, I get it. You will probably find me having already had a bowl of cereal and then reading in my bed and I won't be able to make dinner and we can talk about again next week. So it's literally laying out what I will do. And then let's say my husband does get home at nine. I might still be upset. I mean, I'd be like, this is such a bummer.

But I'm not going to feel so resentful. I'm not going to feel so angry because I laid out two situations based on my needs. And either way, I have kind of a path I can walk down. That's within my control. It doesn't require him to do anything, but at the same time, he has a choice. Yeah. And people say, well, is that just threatening your husband to me? We really underplay our intention and how that intention then gets really felt by someone.

I could say the same thing to my husband. I could say, look, and if you're not home by nine, I mean, I mean, if you're not home by seven, you're going to find me in bed. And I'm not going to have dinner. Like, if I said it that way, I feel like you would receive it. Is like, are you threatening me?

Like, what's going on? Right? It's very different than, hey, sweetie, like, I don't know, maybe works crazy busy for you. Like I can respect that too. And if you do get home at nine, I just want to be very clear. I will be in bed because I'm just exhausted by then. And I can't cook and I don't want to feel resentment toward you. And so I need to be with my book at that time, probably going to fall asleep.

And hopefully we can get time together at another point in the weekend. Like, I think you feel such different intention there. Right. So to me, boundaries are not threats. They're actually an assertion of your own wants and needs within your relationship. I feel like in that way, a boundary is a way of saying to someone, here's what I need to still feel good in our relationship.

I think that's actually another way to think about it, where so many times people worry my boundaries and threaten my relationship. Maybe with my husband or I tell my mother-in-law, oh, they can't come over a certain day. But boundaries are really way of saying, this is what I need to continue feeling good in our relationship. And in that way, it's actually a way of inviting someone to maintain closeness with you.

I like that. And I really like how you described it. And I want to come back to that after. But I want to hit maybe teens. And what would be a good one around screen time, which is something that all parents deal with. I'm sure.

Love this. Okay. So when we think we're setting a boundary, but we're really making a request, it might sound like this. Hey, you can go on Fortnite for, I don't even like to name the number of minutes, because when I do people, I'll also be like, oh, my kid does more than that is that bad. But let's just say X number of minutes. Okay. You can play Fortnite for X and I have more minutes. And after that, you know, I want you to turn it off and come to the kitchen. Okay.

Now, if you know video games and I know video games and if you know phones and I know phones, the idea that your kid is going to be able to stop themselves at a certain time is just probably setting everyone up for failure. It's just you get sucked in. It's not about willpower. It's it gets you addicted. You're in a game. And either way, still I'm making a request.

The success of what I just said to my kid is dependent on them doing this. If it's so important for me for my kid to only play Fortnite for X number of minutes, I could say one of two things. Hey, I just wanted to be perfectly clear about what will happen after X number of minutes.

If you're still playing and I really don't want to do this, I am going to come in and I am going to take the remote and I am going to turn it off. Like I don't want to get there. I'm sure you don't either. So maybe we should do the whole thing we talked about where you said a timer five minutes before and you actually determine if you have time for another games. You're not in the middle of it when I turn it off.

Or maybe I say, hey, I am going to use a new system. I'm going to use this form of parental controls where your iPad turns off at a certain number of minutes with the five minute warning before. And so at the end of that amount of time, it is going to go off. I just want to let you know that's going to happen. The success of what I just said is not dependent on my teenager quote listening to me. My boundary is now totally within my control.

I like that a lot. I love the way that you explain this to them. How do you learn how to do that? And both when you were talking to your, your, your fictional sort of partner around, hey, I really want to have dinner with you. If you're not home at this time, it probably means we're not going to have dinner together. I'm not going to be able to do that.

You know, how do you learn how to talk like that? If it's not modeled for you as a child, like how do you as an adult learn how to communicate in that way, which when you say it strikes me as so effective. But whenever I want to talk about something like this in my head, it never comes out that good.

I love that question. And there's a couple ways I want to answer it. So first of all, to me, inherent in your question actually was like the idea of like learning in general, I don't know, we all learn a lot of stuff by the time were adults that my guess is is not inherent to us, right.

Those are things we learn aren't inherent. It's not actually inherent to learn how to swim like if you don't learn how to swim, you'll be an adult who can't swim. There's plenty of adults who can't swim. It doesn't just come to you with age. I think actually that's one of the most powerful things I think about is like age does not teach skills.

Right people like at what point will my kid no longer engage in x behavior at what age I'm like, well, what are you doing in these years, you know, like either in this amount of time or never, depending on what we do. Right. So just like you can teach someone to swim or you can teach someone a new language.

We can all learn more effective ways to communicate. And it's just in the realm of things that we often don't think of as a skill like for some reason we think I should either know how to do that or I'm not an effective communicator but someone else should just get what I'm trying to say instead of thinking, oh, like how can I learn this.

I think there's a lot of practice that's involved. Now more concretely than that, I think what you're noticing in the way I modeled those two kind of boundary setting situations. First of all, let me just say like if you think I would actually say that in the heat of the moment to my kids like I would it like my husband's like listening to this. Can you please talk to me like that because you don't sound that nice. So please listeners do not think he's going to leave a comment on YouTube.

I do this all the time. Okay. But when we are kind of upset with someone or have been frustrated with someone, we have the tendency to approach them in a very adversarial way. And then how we think about someone affects how we communicate to them. So if I was like my husband doesn't respect me and my husband cares more about work than he does about my relationship. Then you know what I'm going to say to him. Hey, if you're not home by seven.

I'm just, you know, not going to be waiting for you because I have things to do in my life too. Right. Of course, because that's the mindset. I'm in. And I think this is such a general point and I'll share it because I think it's applicable to every life situation that when you're in conflict with someone. You're in one of two mindsets and I'm a very visual person. So explain it visually.

You're either sitting on one side of the table and you're looking at them as if they're sitting on the other side of the table kind of home looking at you. And I'm looking at you like you are the problem. And so I'm on one side of the table. You're on the other side of the table and I'm looking at you like you are the problem.

Okay, the other mindset we can be in is I'm on one side of the table and let's say Shane, you're sitting next to me on the same side of the table. And together we are looking at a problem. I actually think this is like profound because to me, nobody should ever communicate with anybody until you get yourself in that second mindset.

We often think what are the words? What do I say? What's the script? At the end of the day, the mindset is going to win. Right? Or the script won't be effective because you're in an adversarial mindset and the person will feel that. Right? And so I think the kind of biggest skill is recognizing what mindset am I in? And I think we have a lot of clues to that.

Even when we start to think about the person we want to talk to, we can even notice the language we're using. Right? Like, oh, my husband doesn't respect me. He's always at work. He doesn't even care about a relationship. I definitely know what mindset I'm in.

Right? If I'm in the second mindset, I'd probably be saying like, wow, he's really overloaded at work. And you know, I miss him. Right? Maybe I said that. I really missed my husband. I wonder if I've ever told him that. That's very much like me and my husband are on the same side of the table.

And we're kind of looking at the problem of, you know, not being as connected as we used to be. It's kind of like it's now of a sudden. Also, I feel different in that mindset. Like, I honestly feel sad just saying that to you right now.

Like, oh, it's stinks. And maybe my husband feels that way. Maybe he's not even aware that he feels that way. But maybe he does. And maybe he's nervous about his job. And he feels like he's going to fired. And he thinks he's going to let me down if he does that because he's the breadwinner. I'm making these things up.

But when I'm in a me and you against a problem mindset, we communicate completely differently. Same same with our team, right? Like me versus you and a simple thing could be you never pick up the towel. Like, how many times I told you to pick up a towel? Like you, you see the towel on the ground? Like, just pick it up and put it in your bathroom, hang it up versus. Hey, look, we both know towels on the floor. Like, we both know that not where they go.

And you're a responsible kid. Like, and I know you have heard what I've said. So there must be something getting in your way of remembering. Like, there, there must be because I don't think you look at the towel and think I'm going to piss off my mom. Like, I really don't think that's happening.

So can we figure this out together? Like, what would make it easier for you to remember? Like, I actually had this with my own, my 12 year old son recently. And he's like, mom, it's so funny. I walk out of my room. I don't even see the towel. Like, I don't even see it. Like, I guess I drop it and then I don't even see it.

Oh, that's really interesting. What do you see? I just said, I mean, I just see the wall and I see my door. And I was like, oh, that actually gives me an idea. I don't know if it gives you the same idea. Like, what would you need to jog your memory? And he goes, I mean, I guess I could just like put up a post to my door that says pick up my towel.

And it was so silly, but like, I could cry. And I was like, that's an amazing idea. Like, and he did it. And he just like, he did it. He literally just like wrote in his whole handwriting because he's 12 and I don't have to do that for him. And he put it on his door. And does he pick it up every time he does not. Does he pick it up massively more often? Yes.

But the only way we get there is by kind of assuming good intent being on the same team. And together we were kind of looking at this towel on the floor problem versus me looking at my son. And I have like, he's an asshole. Who is the problem? Yeah, it's kind of like you're not doing what I want. Therefore, we're in this adversarial situation. But I don't see what's going on inside you, right?

I don't see, you know, the partner at work who's worried about their job because these are all things that are sort of inside somebody that aren't communicated. And for kids and teens, especially, I would imagine they're going through so much already in life. With school, with friends, with their body changes. And we don't see any of that. We're just like, why can't you pick up a towel? Like, what's wrong with that? That's right. But there's nothing wrong with them.

Yeah. And, you know, I think there's so much more there too. Like, my son probably doesn't care about his towel on the floor. And I don't know if something's so bad going to happen. His towel is on the floor. I mean, not like, I don't think the world's going to end. I don't think his, you know, room is going to be ruined. It just is my preference. And so really we're saying, well, why would my kid start caring about something he doesn't care about.

And his mom does care about. And that actually has everything to do with just kind of the strength of our relationship in that moment. And, you know, it's kind of why any of us do things we don't want to do. But other people care about because we just feel close to them and like we like, you know, taking care of their needs sometimes. Right. And so so much of that and approaching a teen in that like, hey, I respect you.

Like, here's the situation. Let's think through it together. That's the only way you're going to get to a productive solution anyway. Because teenagers inherently they don't care about their towel on the floor. They don't care about the room. They don't care about, you know, being on their phones longer than we want them to be. And so the status of our relationship with our kids and our partner. It's really cordial like everything.

Parenting teens is tricky. I'm just, what are the indications that you have a really strong relationship with your teen. And what are the indications that it's going the wrong way. And you should probably intervene before it gets really bad. That's a good question. You know, my first reaction, like the loudest thing in my mind. I think a lot of parents have a sense of like how they're like they just have like an inherent sense of like how close am I to my teen. How are things going.

You know, I guess in one way it feels like every interaction is a ton of conflict. It's just like a series of misunderstanding. And I think that doesn't feel great either. I guess in the middle is like, well, we don't have any overt conflict. But like do we do we talk about things like do I know about the things that are going on in their life. Would they come to me if they were struggling.

Would they come to me if they were struggling with something that they worry could quote get them in trouble. Right. Um, you know, I think I think a lot about attachment in relationships, right. Not attachment parenting, but the idea that how kids attached to connect to their caregivers, their parents really forms the foundation for a lot of different things in their life for how they're able to regulate emotions for how they think about themselves for how they build confidence and resilience.

It's actually the model they take into adulthood about what a healthy relationship is right. There's so many things. And when our kids are teens, what's really, really tricky is, you know, they're like explorers in the world. I mean, that's like how I think about teens like that's what their job is their job is to explore. They're trying to figure who they are. Their job is to go through this kind of identity formation phase. And as we remember from here younger.

The way you start to form your identity when you're a teen is actually through a lot of separation from your parents. That's actually though your job. Your job is actually to start to separate from them.

And a lot of teens most teens they overshoot just like we did, but you have to kind of overshoot distance to be like, I am nothing like my parent. And if my parent tells me your rule, the quickest way to figure out my own person is to just like reject it. Even if it makes sense for me, it's just like, you know, you kind of overshoot.

But if I go back to the idea of like teens being explorers because they do they try out so many things they kind of need to explore away from their home country, right. I also think a lot about like the difference between like an explorer and a nomad. And I feel like the big difference is an explorer has a home base. I have the shows I said out like they have a home base to come back to. And just knowing they have a home base gives them a lot of confidence in their exploration.

Or a nomad. It doesn't really have a home base. And when I think about teens and parents, I think a lot about that like a teens job is to explore a parents kind of in the home country. Like also feeling lost a lot like where's my kid who like you want to talk to me more who used to like be around more I used to be their primary focus. But what I always want parents of teens to know is like your teen still needs you in the most intense way because they cannot be a nomad in life.

Like that is not what they're looking for. And they will come back. They need to know you're there. Right. Like knowing when you're exploring that your home base is there. Like I think we all know feels very different than checking for a home base and feeling like it has dissolved. Right. And that to me says so much about the connection of teens and parents during these really tricky years.

As you were saying that I just had this thought that maybe it's weird but I want to check this with you. I'm home every day when my kids get home from school. I have been since they were an elementary school. I do the same thing now that they're basically in high school. Much to their dismay. Right. This is like and you were talking and you were like they have to be away from their parents. They have to get this time away.

And so when they come home from school, it's like I'm there. And is that a good thing or a bad thing or like how do you think about that. I mean, I don't think it's a good thing or a bad thing for so they're away from you. They're in school. They have their whole world, you know.

And so I think that's a lot of the ways they start to explore and kids also by the way they explore in their thoughts. They explore by, you know, engaging and listening to music that their parents hate or, you know, entertaining ideas or right. So it's not doesn't just have to be physical separation. I feel I feel mixed about a parent who's always there. First of all, parents were like, I'm at work. I'm not there. Am I messing up my kids? No.

I frankly, you know, I'm often at my office, you know, my kids come home. There's not one right way. You know, I think it's a dance, you know. And I think about this a lot with my own childhood. And I've talked about this a lot with my mom because we mom in very different ways. Like, you know, I do now and she did then.

She was always there. Like I feel like she was someone who was always there, right. And like down to I remember days in like middle school or high school, even when I was older, I was like, oh, I forgot the lunch. I wanted at home. And she'd be like, I am driving to right now, you know, like it was just always there. And one thing we reflected on the lot together and actually kind of relates to confidence so we can get we can, you know, bring it all together as it always happens.

Is I feel like I could have benefited a little more from like mom's not available right now. And kind of like, and I know like not having my lunch is just one example. It's a tiny example. But even that small example, like, I know I would have been like, oh, I guess I have to go to the cafeteria. And I guess I have to like find something or I don't know, maybe I would have remembered to like pack it the next day like in even, you know, bigger way because I don't want to have that happen again.

I think on the other side, right, especially as kids get older, it's so easy to do what I call like taking the bait from teens like, you don't understand me. And I don't want to be with you anymore. I just want to be my friends and get your own life and get out of my room. And parents like, I guess my kids don't care. So like, I'll never be home in their home. And, you know, they slammed the door on my face. And so it's on them to like, you know, say something to me.

And I'm going to kind of give them the silent treatment till they do. Both extremes, I think, like any extremes can like hold kids back, you know. And I think we want to give kids at every age room to like be on their own and kind of the trust in that. And I think his benefit so much from that distance, but they only benefit from that distance when they kind of have internalized and still kind of have access most times to that kind of secure base.

So I'm not trying to get out of the question, but I really do think it's the stance. Because if I think about my own childhood and I think about like, I feel like my secure basis with me all the time. And as I got older, it was like, well, is that me? Was that my parents? I think it took me longer to trust myself, even now amidst uncertainty and struggle.

You know, it's still something I work on with myself because I feel like I did almost have this, you know, system so close all the time that I probably didn't learn to like trust myself. That I could really figure things out and get through things in a way that, you know, could have been really helpful to me. So that leads naturally into sort of confidence and specifically resiliency. What can we do as parents of teenagers to build that resiliency other?

I mean, obviously giving our kids room to fail and opportunities to struggle. Aside from that, what is it that we can do? And like, are there specific things that we can do that you're like, oh, this is a great way to let your 14 or 15 year old fail or struggle or. I mean, I think they're kind of very, very related concepts, you know, confidence and resilience. But I'll start with kind of framing up confidence because I think the way I think about it is a little different.

And if we're trying to build a trait, I think we have to be like so clear about what the trade is or else we're going to be building something in a direction that might not be so productive. What's to find the most and confidence and resiliency? So to me, confidence, I think people think about confidence is like feeling good about yourself. And like, I think that could not be further for what confidence is.

To me, confidence is self trust, which I think is very different from feeling good about yourself. And in a related way, you know, I think often like, confidence isn't feeling like the best at something. It's feeling like it's okay to be you when you're not the best at something. And it's like trusting yourself in those moments. So like I said to you earlier, I don't like to have ideas of actionable strategies because I can't operate that way.

Let's like play out some situations, right? And I think this will drive it home. So your kid comes home and they're like, I'm the only one of my friends who didn't make the football team. I don't make this up right? And the only one of my friends, it's so embarrassing. The only one who didn't make the football team. And I think we think that like what we need to say to our kid there or what they're looking for or even like, I want to build my kids confidence.

They seem so not confident now. So like, I mean, you don't make it. I stink. And like, you know, is well, like you're the only one who made varsity basketball, you know, they all made JV. And like you're the only one who's on varsity basketball or like you're an honors math. And you know, we like say these things like that. And if we think about confidence as self trust, then if we break down that situation, a kid is coming to us saying, I feel sad and disappointed.

And we're saying to them, no, you don't. Right. And I'm an imagery person, as you can see. So to me, this idea of like the feelings bench really, really like brings us to life and gets really concrete and palpable for parents to use then in their home.

So our kids, you know, are feeling down like they often do, you know, they didn't get a good grade in the test or someone broke up with them or now they're friends dating the person that they liked or they didn't make the football team or, you know, they're jealous of their brother who's. You know, always doing xyz and they can't whatever it is. And to me, the image I want parents to think about is like my kid in life is like in a garden that's full of benches. That's like life.

Okay, is in this metaphor. And in this moment, they're sitting on the bench of, and I don't know, maybe this is the bench of I didn't make the football team or maybe if we generalize it's the bench of something and go my way or I'm disappointed or embarrassed, you know, probably all those things come up. They're sitting on that bench. And as parents, we often have two urges. One is one I named, we kind of tell them their bench isn't their bench, right?

Or we like see a sunnier bench in the garden. It's like the bench of, well, you made varsity basketball and we're like, just come, like come with me, right? Just come with me to that bench because it's sunnier. But that does a couple of very unintended things to kids. Number one, they have a feeling of being disappointed. The feelings already registered in their body.

And when kids are young, they're actually just learning about their feelings. They're like, am I allowed to have certain feelings? How do I cope with certain feelings? And a lot of how they learn that is through their relationship with us.

And then they actually take those lessons into adulthood. And so when our kids feeling disappointed, one of the things they learn when we kind of tell them their benches and their bench or tell them they should be on some other bench is like, oh, I guess I'm not supposed to feel disappointed.

And they also learn this feeling that feels very overwhelming to me. Like it's actually very overwhelming to my parent. Like they don't even want me to feel this way. I guess it's dangerous. Like I guess I shouldn't feel that way. Now, I don't think either of us know any adult in life who's gotten rid of disappointment. Like you're going to feel disappointed when you lose a job.

You're going to feel disappointed when someone breaks up with you when you're even you're going to feel disappointed when your flight has a delay. Right. And how you cope with those things doesn't start an adulthood. How you cope with those things comes from your history of how you learn to cope with those things in your earliest years when you were wiring circuitry around your emotions in your body.

And so the reason so many adults have so many difficulties regulating their emotions and their older actually comes on these early years. So if we go back to what is far superior, right or not far superior feels judgmental. If we go back to what I would encourage a parent to do not only to build coping skills and resilience, but also confidence.

Okay. As I think about three lines and I'm going to be super concrete to me. These are three lines that like parents are like right down. They should like commit to memory. They should also use their partners because they're just good relationship lines. When someone tells you so many disappointing like I didn't make the football team sucks and so embarrassed. I'm the worst football player number one. Just I am so glad you're talking to me about this.

Like it is the most beautiful first line to say to someone when they're upset because what you're deeply saying to them and how they receive it is like I am interested in the part of you who's feeling this way.

Is connectable to me like I want to hear more about it. I will attach to this part of you and when you tell that to someone they're automatically willing to tell you more because it's like an opening of a door like I imagine someone went to a boss and they're like I really feel like I deserve a promotion of the boss like I'm so glad you're talking to me about this like even if the boss says no like you're going to be like wow that was a great conversation.

So and when you're doing that what I want parents to imagine is like you're just sitting on the bench next to your kid that's literally what you're doing you're just sitting down you're not saying that bench is in their bench you're not taking them out you're just sitting down and then the second line that I think is the ultimate confidence builder if confidence is self trust is just I believe you.

Yeah I went to the list and my name was an on it and like they literally were all high five in and then I was like the only one not you know not doing that and they all looked at me with such pity and it was like the worst day of my life I believe you when you say I believe you to someone you're not saying I agree that was the worst day of your life you're literally just saying I believe the things you're telling me I believe your feelings are valid and real and then that their line is just tell me more and I think often with parents will say like okay.

And then what and then what and and I love this question and I'm such like a fixer to but like and then nothing and then you've done you have literally crush parenting that moment you should be like I'm done for the rest of the day

and then you're like I'm just a bond bonds and lots of Netflix I just and you massively built your kids confidence because if we think about kids when they're older you want kids when they're feeling tricky things to be like yeah I really do feel this way I really am upset that my partner said that thing to me I really am disappointed that I didn't get that job right I really am angry that I was promised you know I don't know a raise and didn't get it right learning that you can trust your emotions actually is the best thing to do is I'm really happy with that.

Actually is the core of how you regulate your emotions and how you make good decisions because you can use your energy around okay what do I do next instead of all the energy of like trying to figure out what's going on inside you and so to me that's really what confidence is because if someone can feel like their parents are able to tolerate their disappointment.

Then what the kid really learns is like I can still be me when I'm disappointed I'm still like a valuable person this feeling clearly is like an acceptable part of me it's not all of me I have to fight to get rid of it that's really how we build confidence one common thing that I see with my kids and I'm sure other kids and it drives me insane there's like a few triggers I have and one of them is laziness and the other is sort of in that situation I'll really get it to sort of like I'm going to get it.

I really did to sort of like they come home they get a bad score on a tester and assignment and they blame something exterior to themselves the teacher to communicate clearly I saved the document but it didn't save my edits I and it's

resolving them of sort of responsibility and fault in that moment and how do we deal with that as parents where it's like because that that trait that single trait if it takes root can be so detrimental in life where you become a victim of circumstance instead of the master of your circumstances.

I'm so big on personal responsibility to and so that's like triggering for me to from like a personal standpoint so I join you in that so I think first and I always think this is true like we have to understand before we intervene like that to me every workshop I do that's like you know about problem behaviors or sleep or you know rudeness like that's always the first

section and parents it's always so interesting because they'll take this workshop and they'll say oh my goodness like everything feels better in my home and I'm like I don't even get to the strategies yet because we underestimate how many of our issues with our kids or any relationship actually comes from

not understanding and as soon as we understand something it's amazing it's like we immediately feel better so I think first it's like well why is my son doing that he why is he saying well it didn't save or well the teachers asked all these questions that they said wouldn't even be on the test right they say something like that right and I think it's really important to get curious there like why what's why would my kid do that and to me the reason like everything I do the company

the membership is called good inside is because me that's like the principle that allows us to be curious about our kids our kids are good inside so why would my good kid kind of like totally sure responsibility and it's really separating who they are from their identity they're a good

kid from certain behavior which is something that happened right when we are most frustrated with our kids it's because we've collapsed the two my kid is just kind of like a shitty kid who doesn't take on a chance ability versus I have a good kid who is

struggling with something so I think one of the best ways I can be curious about my kids is I'm like well why would I do that why would I be in a situation where instead of being like oh my goodness I was late and I should have left earlier I was like you

have no idea about the traffic and you have no idea about the car in front of me oh my goodness right so I'm just making this up now but oddly enough I think I would do that when I felt so bad I felt both simultaneously like so guilty and so unable to like tolerate that guilt and this is actually going to circle back to the idea of separating identity and behavior oddly enough kids tends to hit kids' short responsibility and kind of seem unwilling to reflect on their

role of things when they equate a certain outcome with kind of being an indication of who they are so let me say that in a better way that's like clearer so like if your son thinks like I got it let's say I got like a whatever it is a 70 on this test if when he gets a 70 what happens inside him is like I'm so stupid I can't believe like I got a 70 and math that will make him tell the story will my teacher asked about things that were unfair because he can't tolerate the idea that he's

like a stupid kid at math nobody can tolerate that idea and actually so the first step is like trying to help our kids you're a good smart kid who clearly like got a not so great thing great on the test right and when we're able to separate who we are

from what we do we're actually remarkably able to take responsibility for our behavior because it's no longer an indication of our identity so okay if that's part of the understanding I know for me and my own I'm like I so what do I do like I don't understand what to do

in that moment what strikes me is what's happening for a kid is actually shame that's what's happening a kid feels ashamed shame is when we use our behavior as an indication of our identity just all collapsed it's like this bad thing means I'm a bad person

and the hardest thing about shame when it's present and I write about this in the book is like you have to change your goal and it's like it's so frustrating because if that's my kid what I want to say to him is okay stop saying that just stop saying that like

okay maybe that's true but like some kids do well in the test and like you probably could have studied you probably could have gone to the teacher before and asked a few questions and like if you keep saying that you'll never learn like you just want to like lecture you want to like

just get through it yeah the thing about shame is it's a freeze response it's like an animal defense state like we talk a lot about fight or flight but there's other animal defense states too right and one of them is freeze right and so if someone's frozen you can't like get them out of that until it started to thaw a little bit and so as a parent instead of trying to go through it you're only goal in the moment and this is going to be like remarkably ungratifying

I'm just warning you is to have to deshame the moment first you have to switch your goal from getting through to your kid and teaching a lesson to lowering shame so your kid is actually in a place where they're on frozen at which point they can learn so if that's my kid I'm going to tell you what I would do except again like I don't know if I'd really do this but the ideal Becky would do this my kid says this to me

I'd probably say in the moment I hate when that happens oh that's the worst right because I even think about me if I showed up for this podcast with you late shame I was like you've no idea about traffic oh my goodness oh my goodness it was so bad and my commute was awful if you're like that is the worst oh I have that happened to me once too I really do think the next thing I would say to you like I'm sorry I should have left earlier

where if you're like I mean Becky look like we only have a little bit of time and like maybe the traffic like you really could have just I don't know left your apartment earlier and gotten to the studio

I know what I'd say back is like he doesn't even understand traffic the traffic was so bad I would have gotten so it's paradoxical but it's so effective and you can deshame by just actually saying like oh that's the worst it's usually pretty simple or to me like one of the most beautiful strategies it's hard even called a strategy it's just I call it like did I tell you about the time but it's just like leveling with your kid about a story from your own childhood

that was just like that oh that makes me think about when I was in seventh grade it's not the same but like I remember the science test I was like what this question's on and this question's on and you can kind of watch I'm going to kind of like do a little trick here and part of me was like I guess I could have studied that but the teacher never told me and the teacher never even told me and so oh something like that happened to me too

and so what you're doing in the moment is you're actually just reconnecting with your kid you're actually prioritizing connection connect first is like the principal we all want to try to do as often with our kids not because we're soft but actually because it's effective if you want to get anything done right so I'm just connecting I'm deshaming I'm connecting and once I form that connection with my kid and they've kind of unfrozen a little bit

I can then enter into like a different conversation but it just has to happen later than we want it to one of the things I wanted to come back to outside of the world of teens and maybe inside the adult world here is you said earlier how we think about someone affects how we communicate with them

I want to relate that to how we think about ourselves and that inner voice we have and how we the stories we tell ourselves and what are the common ways that we sort of self sabotage or get in our own way with these stories that we're telling ourselves and we're not being kind to ourselves or we're not being gentle and that has all of these other sort of implications like how can I treat you nicely if I don't even treat myself nicely

Yes I mean there's so many examples of that right and I think most of us we can get into the causes but most of us have learned to wire struggles next to blame they're like very very close in our circuitry and I say blame because it's it's often a combination of other blame and self blame

I think blame is often a two-way street like some of us maybe you know specialize more in self blame some of us in other blame but usually it's a seesaw like it's you know and so when something's hard or something doesn't go our way right maybe maybe I yelled at my kid and then I all of a sudden like I'm a monster I'm the worst parent I messed up my kid forever it's just like huge spiral

or I did a presentation at work and my boss had something that like I don't know if it was critical but it was kind of ambiguous and I leave and I'm like my boss thinks I'm so stupid and like oh my goodness I'm going to get fired and we just like you said we start telling ourselves stories

and then those stories like start to influence of course they influence how we feel they influence and the next action we take that usually is just kind of further reifying that story or really that interpretation and we can really get off to the races right and another image I want to share right because I think this is really one of my favorites and it really illustrates what we're talking about is like if you picture yourself as the driver of a car

we all have multiple passengers in our car right so like some of us have imposter syndrome has like a very very noisy passenger some of us have it's all my fault some of us have the world is going to end and everything is going to go badly right we get into problems not when those things are our passengers we get into problems and those things take over the driver's seat and actually a lot of us when we're aware of those voices we try to get them out of our car like we do

I don't feel that way or I know my boss doesn't actually think I'm stupid why am I thinking that we either fight the voice or it kind of takes over us like that's usually what happens when I actually think mental health is not about getting those voices out of our car then they're there they're not going anywhere but actually just like talking to them when they're in the passenger seat to ensure that they don't take over the driver's seat

right so for example not first of yelling at my kids and maybe like oh there's the I messed up my kid forever again voice hey you it's unfortunate but you do tend to come up whenever I make a little mistake with my kid and like okay I'm just going to come back to today like it is 2024 and you know I don't really know what the next 80 years you know kind of hold but I'm pretty sure what I did today did not you know mess up my kids forever and I know you'll say that again to me

but I'm just going to kind of keep you in the back seat right or okay I don't even feel great about my presentation and my boss did do this but there's that my boss hates me voice and it's true whenever I even doubt myself a little bit I do tend to also think that my boss is about to fire me right

and all of a sudden now I'm actually in a relationship with these stories right or with these parts I would call them these parts and as soon as you're in a relationship with a part of you inherently that part of you can't take over you because you and the driver seat are like talking to it and to me that's what I actually teach adults and parents like all the time it's honestly like some of my favorite interventions to teach kids how to do that when they're young

I think it's like one of the most important skills I could take into adulthood with them because I think those are some of like the ultimate coping skills in life One of the other things we talked about earlier and I'm sort of going down a couple of rabbit holes

because we sort of covered a lot of ground really quickly was regulating emotions and not only do we as adults and parents have to teach our kids or help them better regulate their own emotions we have to often learn how to regulate our own emotions how do we do that

I get this question from parents often right because the way kids learn how to regulate emotions is through their relationship with their parents right it's not something you could get taught in a textbook and it's not to say when we get older if we don't have a lot of those early experiences

that helped us learn how to regulate our emotions which most adults I know a lot of them didn't it doesn't mean we can't get there but our kids right they kind of borrow our regulation in a moment and they kind of absorb it and like I was saying before they kind of over time learn

oh my emotion inside me that feels so scary to me is less scary to someone else and they kind of absorb that hope and they absorb that kind of tolerance and that really forms the foundation for so many of their coping skills so parents will say to me okay I actually get that how can I do that for my kid if I can't if I if I really do struggle to regulate my own emotions it seems like I'm teaching my kid and myself at the same time

and we are and like that's is just kind of the hand a lot of us were dealt and it's not an impossible hand it's not an easy hand but it's definitely a winnable hand like I know that and I've seen it now with millions of adults

who are you know winning a lot of their hands and so I think there's a couple like concrete ways as adults that we can you know start to learn how to better regulate our emotions right number one to me is just the word curiosity like being curious about yourself is a foundation

to regulating your emotions because it's the difference between saying my kids winding my kids winding like who can stay calm when they win all day like are you saying people like whining I have to get to a place where I like whining no nobody likes whining literally nobody likes

whining but there's a big difference between not liking whining and I don't know reacting and being in state of reactivity with screaming at our kids versus not liking whining and being able to regulate our emotions and respond to our kid from a place of groundedness and sturdiness right still nobody likes it but it's very different and curiosity to me gets us from point one to point two because instead of saying like what's wrong with my kid and why are they acting the way they're acting

we might say what's going on inside of me what's going on for me what what is happening inside me that is kind of a component of this reaction right the idea that my kids winding is an inherently making me scream at them it's a trigger but there's a story inside me there's something that happens inside my body that frankly predated my kids existence so if I can get curious about that right then I can actually make a lot of progress

and to me I think it's so easy to hear that and someone say oh so it's my fault no like I don't know where I feel like we're obsessed with the word fault like it's not your kids fault it's not your fault like why does it have to be anyone's fault like I don't know why it's like it's just

this is happening either we can be curious and like learn and through that learning probably live in a way that's more in line with our values feel more in control of ourselves like your kids going to benefit but I promise you with the adult are going to benefit in areas like way more

like everybody wins right and so I always say to parents this isn't a system of like saying this is your fault it's a system of saying like this is actually a place for your empowerment and to like finally learn skills and skills always help us feel you know more powerful so one of my favorite emotion regulation skills to teach adults is something I call AVP okay and it's like the simplest thing and has the most profound impact on people okay so AVP stands for

acknowledge validate permit so I'll teach each part step one to regulating emotions is acknowledging them and actually this is a really good point in the conversation relative to what we just said about this image in the car so let's say

you know my kid is winding step one acknowledge like well I'm feeling really annoyed right like in a way what I'm doing is like I'm the driver of my car and annoyance in the back seat is like starting to kind of make its way to the driver seat and I'm like hey there hey and that's literally what I'm doing I actually use the word high a lot because it always makes me laugh and to me if I could add levity to like that process it gets easier

so I'm like high annoyance or high anxiety right or something like that so if step one is just acknowledge you can acknowledge by using a quote feeling word like high annoyance or high sadness a lot of people don't like really know the name of their feelings and that's totally fine

and you can also do it in a more general way like I'm feeling uncomfortable right now right feeling about to explode right now I'm feeling tight right now any acknowledgement to is validate and to me the best way that our body I think likes to be validated I don't know why is the term makes sense I think there's something we're feelings feel like accepted by logic in our body when we use that term I don't know I haven't like I haven't asked

but I think that's what's happening so I'd be saying I'm really really annoyed right now or you know when my kid was winding and I say to myself well that makes sense like mining is pretty annoying it makes sense that I feel that way that is a hugely helpful phrase in regulating our emotions because the reasons our emotions get unregulated right

is that they are exploding out of our body in our behaviors they literally if you think about these moments of reactivity when I yell or right I'm the emotion is like coming out of my body and like through my mouth right it's kind of like a volcano right the opposite of that isn't suppressing emotions because you just can't beat them so it's always you know an unwinnable you know endeavor but we're kind of saying when you regulate in emotion like it's okay to live inside your body like

it can just live there doesn't have to explode out of you it can live inside there like it has a place it has a home so if you think about those two steps already like for some saying hi to it like if you're saying hi to someone at a party like maybe don't love them but you're probably like okay with them being there because he said hi and then you're telling you're feeling like it kind of makes sense that you're here

and then P is permit which actually just is involved in your self I give myself full permission to be feeling this way right so another example of going through an AVP would be like I'm feeling really anxious right now and really really worked up and you know well that makes sense like I am managing my kids soccer schedules and you know I'm thinking about what they need for dinner and I didn't respond to that email and I think tomorrow is going to be a snow day

and then my kids are going to have canceled school and P permit right I give myself permission to be feeling this way and I think a kicker at the end is just adding the phrase and I can cope with it and I can cope with it I you know interesting laugh you're catching me and like last night I was walking into Times Square and as I do I film videos myself for Instagram when I'm like on my on the way to the subway so I was like filming myself and this guy saw me

he's just 28 year old guy stopped me he goes I'm a 28 year old man I'm unmarried and I don't have kids and he goes and I like I'm so excited to see you he's like you're like a celebrity to me and he goes literally goes AVP has changed my life as I said he said this AVP has changed my life I'm reparenting myself I know I never learned what some people learned in their childhood and I need to kind of reparent myself through those skills

and AVP has like you know changed my life and so there's a couple ways to use it if regulating your emotions is new for you you can't expect yourself to start to regulate your emotions when you're in your most heightened emotions that would be like someone who has never taken a foul shot taking a foul shot game seven of the NBA finals when time is run out and the game is tied like that person is not making it you take foul shots in practice low stakes and so the way I tell people to practice AVP

is literally going to their phone right now setting a random time that they tend to be alone right not in the midst of things and just literally making a daily reminder that says AVP and when it goes off you just stop and you say to yourself what am I feeling right now

and it can be like I'm not feeling much I don't know well that makes sense because this is a new thing for me to check in with my emotions so it makes sense that I'm not sure permission I'm giving myself full permission to not know how I'm feeling

no way to get it wrong that's I'm saying like and I promise you after a week or two not only will you start to recognize more things but already that skill that coping skill will start to appear not in 10 out of 10 emotional situations it will not it's not magic

but like in maybe two three out of 10s and I think that's like one concrete thing like all adults can do to start making progress was earlier AVP in action when we said I'm glad you're telling me about this I believe you tell me more that sounds like AVP oh my goodness I've never shane I've never thought about that but I'm so glad I'm telling you I'm telling me about this is basically like acknowledging and like yeah like I believe you is like another ultimate form of validation

and actually you know what's so interesting this is crazy my brain is firing in a million directions someone told me that AVP they're like I don't like to say make sense I'm gonna cry this this one said I just say to myself I believe myself I really do feel this way so yeah and then permission like tell me more is permission permission to feel permission to keep going yes I guess that is that is very profound it will leave me with a lot to think about

permission thank you when we have an emotional outburst we tend to react without reasoning we say things that you know sometimes we can't unsay we do things that you know the best version of ourself would would not have us be doing and we all do this and this is natural and normal and I think it's part of being human and how do we repair

with our kids or a partner after this happens okay we've had this outburst or you know we have this fight or this argument we're not feeling good about it but we really don't know what to do now how do we get back to a good place I'm so glad you're asking this question because I always like kick myself if I'm in a conversation and don't get to talk about this because it's the ultimate

right like to me repairs literally the number one relationship strategy everyone should get good at whether you're in a partnership your relationship at work and definitely a relationship with your kid and I want to go through this in a way it's literally going to come full circle to confidence to behavior versus identity as everything because I really think of myself as like a first principle thinker it always comes back to the same few things

so every single person definitely me included messes up like I yell at my kids and it's not something I'm just saying like oh that's nice she's saying this like of course I

I'll at my kid like I'd be offended that you didn't think I yelled at my kid like my kids first all do not have doctor Becky as a parent and I would not wish doctor Becky on any child I really wouldn't as a parent like it's it's just not it's not human it's not the way you can learn about how relationships work right if our relationship with our kids becomes the model they kind of take into adulthood and how they think about relationships

Shane I don't think you and I want our kids going to look for a partner who's like who is perfectly attuned to my emotions all the time who always gets it right they will be very disappointed nobody's like that so everybody messes up and when I say relation repairs the number one relationship strategy it's because there's very few things that can have as much positive impact on repair

okay and and what I always like to think about there is okay so if repair is one of the most powerful relationship strategies and I'm supposed to get good at repair well you can't repair if you don't mess up you literally can't and so really okay and I'll go through how to repair after I yell at my kid I really do say this to myself because I used to be pretty bad at repairing until I like understood really the power of it I'm like oh I messed up and especially with this like doctor Becky

stuff like what would people think if like right like I was yelling at my kids I was like wait I'm getting good at repair that's like my goal so I messed up step one check like crushed it crushed it I messed up I already did step one everyone says the first step is the hardest step okay well first step is messing up we did that second step is repair like your 50% of the way there so I want to take this whole idea and like turn on its head repair is so important so I want to say why repair is so important

especially for kids and then get into the concrete way to do it so I just yelled at my kid and now usually my house after I yell at my kid like we're separated like after I really scream like my kids in this room let's say my sons in this room and let's say it's about screen time I'm like I told you to get off you know that video game and like you never listen and you you know take advantage of me and like you said and I don't know if I can trust you and you know and he's like you don't

understand me and I was just with my friends and you embarrassed me and I'm like you've seen nothing yet okay and then he's in his he's in his he's in his room he's like slammed his door and like I'm in the kitchen right so what happens next right that moment

already happened do I wish I couldn't happen yeah I do right but but it already happened so what goes on for a kid after a moment that feels really bad with a parent before repair has happened so my kid is now my son is now in his room he's he's overwhelmed and from like a

somatic physical perspective right he's like agitated he's obviously on edge I am to and he's even younger he's helpless and right our kids are oriented by attachment with us attachments the primary evolutionary mechanism for kids they need us they literally need us to survive

and so they're always kind of paying attention to the status of their relationship with us right and figuring out how to be close to us again figuring out how to get your body calm so you can kind of proceed something they have to do so my kids alone right having just gotten

yelled at and they have to figure out how to feel safe again like in their body and if I don't go help them do it kids really only have two coping mechanisms at their disposal on their own and those are self-doubt and self-blame so my kid could be in his room and kind of engage in self-doubt did that really happen I mean I don't know like if that happened someone probably come talk to me I don't know maybe I'm making a big deal out of things maybe I'm overreacting maybe my friends wouldn't

be in such a big deal and I guess I'm fine like yeah I guess I'm fine like just forget it and then also my mom never mentioned it again so maybe that didn't even happen we don't want to wire self-doubt into our kids because it comes up in really in our opportunities right when when my daughter let's say my son is older and they have something I don't know uncomfortable happen with the boss or with someone they meet in college like I really don't think any of us want

self-talk to be like did that really happen my overreacting when my friends have thought that was a big deal that's like so terrifying right and that's not what we want so that self-doubt and the other things kids do with self-blame they to say it's my fault they're like I did this if I was like a better kid I wouldn't have done this and I ruin everything they either say you're both on too much I'm not enough right and they kind of say this to themselves to

calm down and one of the reasons kids engage in self-blame that I find really compelling to like share this idea more widely it's not mine it's by Ronald Fairburn very very you know early you know psychiatrist what he says that I think is compelling it's just for kids it's better to be a sinner in a world ruled by God then to live in a world ruled by the devil meaning kids have to feel safe in the world and they have to believe that their

parents are like good and like we'll keep them safe and so when things happen with their parents that feel really bad it's actually adapted for a kid to internalize fault and blame because at least then they can hold

on to the idea that their parents and kind of their for the world around them is safe and good and if we circle back to like why do we all blame ourselves after we struggle well if over and over after hard times in your body hard time thing that didn't feel good self-blame hard time thing that

didn't feel good self-blame will you become an adult when you have a hard time and things that don't feel good guess what happens next in your circuit self-blame right adaptive when you're young very very much hold us back when we're adults and so whenever I think about those two things that my

kid would have to do if I don't repair it becomes extra compelling to repair because I really think oh my goodness my kid and I had this event here's what people misunderstand events don't mess up kids events aren't even inherently traumatizing what I don't like to her mess up because I'm so

final but what really impacts kids is not an event it's the story they tell themselves about the event that's what gets encoded in their body that's actually what memory is right it's events and every time you've remembered that event is it the same for relationships to in terms of like what

gets remembered it's the story we tell ourselves a bit that moment well I think you know there's a lot of science on this now that like what memory isn't events it's events and every other time you remembered the event to me that's the best way to think about it because it actually speaks to

why therapy is powerful for people right like you don't change the events of your childhood but by remembering them in a different way in the context of a safer relationship actually your memory changes your memories literally change and so if you go back to like you've yelled at your kid you don't

feel good your kids alone in their room you don't want them to engage in self blame self-doubt or you don't want that not only that tell me like I often really I feel like I'm a magician when I go repair with my kid I'm like oh my goodness what happens next after the yell is going to have the most

impact on what you end up encoding about the event like if I can go in and do a true repair your you're gonna you're not gonna quote be messed up by that you're gonna learn that wasn't your fault you're gonna actually gonna watch an adult take responsibility for something that didn't feel

good to them you're gonna learn that after hard moments can be new understanding and people kind of working on themselves like what's a better lesson to my kid than that it's like the most that's why it's the amazing opportunity and so to actually engage in repair there's two steps and I think the

first step is one that's not talked about a lot and that's why so many of us have a hard time repairing or apologizing and the first step and this is gonna be full circle is really repairing with ourselves if someone says like I have a really hard time apologizing or my husband my wife my

mom really can't apologize what they probably mean is they actually and chance is very similar to why someone wouldn't take responsibility for getting a bad grade they've equated the thing they did with the type of person they are and so as long as me yelling at my son means I'm a monster

and a bad mom there's no humanly possible way I could repair my body wouldn't even let me I can't face the idea of being an awful person in fact if I stay in that place when I repair with my kid probably not repairing I'm probably going to ask my kid to do me a service you forgive me right you forgive me right you still love me right you love me I'm actually like asking my kid to like give me back my goodness that's like so not their job repairing with ourselves really means and

I really do this when people are like what does that really mean back I'm like no literally like I go into a bathroom I sit on a closed toilet I put my feet on the ground I put a hand on my heart and I'll say to myself like I'm not proud of yelling my kid and that yelling doesn't define me and I think this exercise is powerful for a million reasons but like in general I put out my two hands and I look at one and I'm like this is who I am this is my identity and I look at the other hand I

say this is what I did this is my behavior I'm a good person who yelled at my kid I'm a good parent who was having a hard time and I'll notice especially after like the bad moments those hands start to come closer together and I'm like no I'm not like I this is the worst and I can't repair

with my son from that place I won't but if I like stay in that place I'm like no like nobody's perfect I didn't mess up my kid forever and there is something to me just saying like you know my latest behavior doesn't define me I'm a good parent Becky I am still a good parent and I'll look at one

hand and I'll look at the other hand who is having a hard time I feel something like release a little bit in my body and then really what's happened is I've reaccessed really my own good insideness separate from this behavior and if anyone thinks it's interesting don't aren't you

letting yourself off the hook the only way to let yourself off the hook is to conflate your behavior with your identity because as long as you're in a place of self blame it's actually a very like egotistical place and you're kind of like descending into the sabice you can't reflect you

can't change you can't wonder what coping skills do I need what do I need to do differently the next time it doesn't make an excuse but what was going on in my day that left me so fried and you know overwhelmed and how could I change that next time the only way you can reflect and learn is

by repairing with yourself yeah it's sort of basically you're saying I'm not going to be defined by this behavior I'm not going to let that define who I am even though I can they can both be true right I did this thing I don't want to be the person who does that type of thing and yet I did it

and yet it doesn't have to define who I am or my future that's exactly right and then you've kind of like I do think about that you've like re-access this thing inside you like I'm kind of I'm still like I haven't lost that good inside this now I don't need my kid to find it for me now I don't

need them to validate it that's you know not the point of repair that is the opposite and now I can actually go and do a true pair repair with my kid and to me a repair you know I don't think there's an exact formula but like to some degree you name what happened you take responsibility

and you state what you would do differently the next time I think I think especially the I think all those components are pretty important so I might say hey I'm thinking about yelling at you when you were you know playing video games earlier the reason I want to name it specifically

again this I always think that kids have the tendency to self-doubt just to again make themselves feel better and I always want my kids to go into adulthood being like the things I see and the things I notice really are true and so I think just like validating that when I yelled at you when you were

playing video games is a way of my son of being like okay I didn't make that up like that it happened I'm really sorry and to me this line matters and it's controversial so I want to talk about it with you it's never your fault when I yell you know I'm really working on managing

my own frustration even my system around how you do video games because it is important you end at the time we said and there's definitely a smoother way around that and even when you don't like it's my job to like you know approach that in a com our way and that's you know and then

I think a couple things can happen depends on your kids age two you know but most of the time kids will look at you and they'll say like whatever or they'll say kind of my snack now or you're so weird if it's new you know they'll say something like that and I think it's easier to walk out

the room being like oh my goodness like I just like did such major internal work to make that happen and my kid didn't even care they cared do not take the bait especially if it's new it's a lot for them to process to be treated like someone who's deserving of a repair and whenever any

of us are kind of experienced something emotional a lot of us kind of push people away to have enough distance to like try to like retake it in in our own time and so I know with 100% conviction that it will make a difference to your kid even if they don't gratify you by saying

something back that's kind in the moment is it different or where is it different when it comes to repairing with the partner or spouse great question I think it's both different and it feels totally different and we all mean included can get into such a state of willfulness instead of

willingness you know with our partners you know I think I think it's the same thing it's like you're taking responsibility for what you did you're owning your side of the equation you know I think a lot of us let's say you're your partners easy to be like well if you didn't do this thing you

know or you know if you had said this instead I wouldn't have reacted that way right but at the end of the day we own our reactions and we're responsible for you know well this is maybe it's embarrassing but this is

something I really struggle with sometimes in particular moments when when somebody tells me how they're feeling and the implication is that I did something that's caused them to feel that way I catch myself saying I'm sorry you're feeling that way that doesn't seem like a good way to respond or

lead to your partner want me to want me to help you with this yeah well it's sort of like because it's like I'm insulating myself from any accountability but in some cases I might not agree with it right so this is where my mind goes where it's like well I don't I don't agree that you should feel that way perhaps or I don't agree that I did anything that caused that how do I acknowledge and validate and repair in

yeah what's a better way to respond in all that's no it's so let's just like go further into that so because you said like I don't what you said I thought was compelling like I don't agree is that the word you use like yeah agree so could you is there a situation that we could delve into with a little more detail well somebody's like you did this thing and it made me angry you know I can you know in my

mind I can be like I don't agree that you should be angry or I don't agree that you should be feeling that way is sort of like what I'm what I catch myself thinking yeah and when I catch myself thinking that the words that sometimes come out of my mouth is I'm sorry you're feeling that way which means I get to walk away without acknowledging that I have any contribution to this and I'm not really I'm sort of validating your feelings but not quite validating your feelings at the same time

and it's that dance between like in some cases like I just don't think I did anything that would warrant that and so like I don't want to apologize for something when I didn't really do anything yeah what do I do in the am I am I crazy no you're 0% crazy and so much of this resonates

with me too and I can get like this too so there's a couple of things that you said that I think we need to like you know not like break down like poke poke around that's what I would say so first of all most of us when we're married like right or partnered whatever we are like the way

we react to our spouse when they bring us up something they're feeling is we do we get very likely like kind of egocentric I do this to where it's like well I wouldn't feel that way like right and I think most fights partners get in are kind of they're both saying to the

other person why can't you be more like me and then I'm so well why can't you be more like me why can't we be more like me right we all find our partners inherently we've attracted them because of all the ways they're kind of different from us and then over time we

become a little bit repelled by those exact same things that's like marriage right and so I think those different those differences I think are at the core right and so I actually think this relates to that feeling bench a lot right so your partner is coming to you

essentially saying I don't know I'm going to make it a situation tell me if like it's close enough like you didn't you didn't text me and tell me that you weren't going to stop at the store and like I'm really mad because I would have then gotten by myself I don't know

is that close enough or you didn't text me for two days and I thought you would text me between or you know like you're traveling you didn't text me for two days when you were traveling like you don't even reach out to see how the last two days are going like I'm

really mad right okay great so I know this on silly but I think I really should slow this down because what your partner is saying is what your partner is not saying is a couple things they're not saying you did anything so important they're not saying I'm right to feel mad

because like that's the right feeling in the world that's like the right feeling in the world and they're not saying you're a horrible person and they're not saying you're at fault I think the first thing that really helps when our partner shares how they feel

is my partner is inviting me to get to know more about them this is an invitation they're getting they're showing me another part of themselves that's very vulnerable and they like to be in a relationship with that part of them now I know this is tricky because you're

like but my partner is also saying that I did something to relate to that part well we all do this but they're also saying almost like more zoomed out like hey now that that thing already happened like I'm coming to you and this is I think the gotman's call this is

like a bid for connection this is like an invitation yeah does that is that as a start does that shift things a little bit totally because it's like I'm reaching out because I care if I didn't care I wouldn't be reaching out I wouldn't be engaging in this conversation I

would just ignore it and sort of like build resentment slowly so the fact that you're reaching out is a bid that's right is a bid exactly and you know almost and we don't communicate this way but it's almost like what the partner is saying is like look you and I are different

and if I was traveling for two days you might not even notice that I didn't text or I might come home and be like wow you were really busy tell me about how those days traveling and for me when you don't text for those two days I spiral a little bit I feel I feel

unseen I feel like maybe you forgot about me you know maybe doesn't that may that's dramatic but that's in somewhere inside me and my need is for more communication free from you than your need would be from me I think if someone said it to us we'd be okay when you

laid out that way like I guess when we say I don't agree what we're really usually saying is I wouldn't feel that way if I were you which I don't think anyone would disagree with right I think one of the hardest parts about being in a relationship with someone who's

inherently different is that like wait I wouldn't feel that way but you do feel that way and I do love you and I am choosing to be in a relationship with you so we have this choice it's like I can kind of lean on and I think like there's my righteousness I wouldn't feel that way

or I can be curious about getting to know more of you and I think you're right then same thing with our kids I'm sorry you feel that way probably something we should always catch ourselves if we can before we say it because it feels like it's like neither here nor there

and so many of the lines we talked about honestly and you think about a partner right who says this right you were gone for two days like it's the same thing they're like sitting on a bench right and they're like sad they're sad or they're mad usually under mad is sad also you know

this is probably a little bit of both right a mad I'm sad and if you think about sitting down right you'd say like it's actually a great first line like I'm so glad you're telling me that like right and it's so interesting how much that diffuses mad right away because like most people

when they're angry they are they're ready to fight right and like they're they're gearing up right and actually under mad usually is some more vulnerable emotion and I think like I'm so glad you're telling me about that is that usually starts to get a little closer than actually

that next line like I believe you like I believe you that you were really hurt and again you're not saying and I think this is actually so important parenting to understanding how someone feels in a deep way is not at all the same thing as a green or saying I

would feel that way too or saying that some way is to feel is right in the world like in some grand way it's just understanding it's not condoning it's just understanding right and then like oh so tell me tell me what that was like for you like those three lines I

think are actually like such an amazing guide in that situation I think the problem with me is like I don't I want to know more deep down inside I also don't want to necessarily like my brain just goes to this place where it's like do you agree with this do not agree with

this and like that's what I want to get out of is this like I don't want to be in that sort of binary mode because if I agree with it I'm one person and if I don't agree with it I'm a completely different person which is like cold and distant and if I

do agree with it well then I'm sitting on that bench with you and I'm like oh totally like I hate even that happens and yeah and I would actually go so far shame to say like I actually don't think it's great to agree with it either like I don't know you probably

maybe you wouldn't feel that way like and my relationship my husband so stopped me all the time that I'm like my first reaction to is like oh my god because I would have it that way but I'm like wait like I'm in Becky mode I know okay I want to feel that way

like almost like who cares like he's cheering with me how he feels or you know same thing as the opposite so I actually think I think it's so helpful when we're in relationships to get out of agreeing or disagreeing I actually think I'm just thinking about this now like

when you're curious about something you're not sure if you agree or disagree you're actually just like learning so in talking to you today I think that's the conclusion that I've sort of drawn for myself which is just like approach it with curiosity and

non-judgment and just try to understand the other person and it's sort of like I I do with the podcast like I'm not judging what people say I just want to see the world through your eyes and I want to smell what you smell and I don't want to agree or disagree with what you're saying I just want to see what the world looks like through your lens I love that and again that idea of is it me against you versus me and you against a problem is helpful because if someone's like I tend to get kind of

judgmental when my partner shares their feelings and I tend to be like well I wouldn't feel that way and so I'm sorry you feel that way if you know that and you want to work on it it's an amazing thing to first share that with your partner to be successful something on working on it's like you know really is and this is totally not your responsibility but again because I see it as me and my partner against this problematic dynamic I might say look the next time you do share when

you're mad at me this is so not your responsibility but if you're able right if you could like say to me like I don't need you to agree just be curious whatever it is yeah it almost just would like bring up that part of it like I just like that I don't know and again you don't have to because it's like if my partner doesn't it doesn't mean I've justified that I'm allowed to you know react with judgment but to me again it makes us feel like let's together figure out where our conversation

goes off and work together so we can you know move in a more productive direction I want to switch gears a little bit here there's so many other questions I have and some including from friends I want to talk about something that a lot of my friends seem to be struggling with with their kids and

I'm going to use the term addiction but I'm not using it in a clinical sense I'm using it in the sense of like teenagers specifically being addicted to screens and I'm going to specify screens as their phone or video games and that addiction shows some classic signs of an actual addiction including

behavior where you're sneaking around you're hiding your phone you're doing things that you shouldn't be doing and maybe you're missing school assignments because you're at school and you're playing video games and so like it's the baby steps towards an actual addiction and maybe a clinical

sort of what can we do as parents with the lying this sneaking and this is not I mean my kids exhibit this from time to time I think most teenagers it's just sort of like part of being a teenager as well you walk in your kids room and you know maybe they have their phone and they're trying to

hide it and they're covering it up and they're lying about it and how do we deal with screen specifically borderline addiction where it's causing other problems and the kids can't self regulate in terms of I need to get off my phone I've been on it on enough today so first of all it's that the deck is stacked against us here I just want to say this like I think back on the days where I mean I think this is true sorry my history is an amazing but like I'm guessing

at some point kids could buy cigarettes you know and it would be like I always don't my kids I don't I stop my kids and at some point the government's like we can't leave it to parents like these things are awful like for kids we know that they're not in a

place to make good decisions and so there has to be legislation to make change I really believe kids and screens like are the same and like we're living in a time now we're just all on parents and I just feel for every parent so it's just if it feels really hard and you're struggling like I think that's the best it gets right so I have a few more ideas than that but so second kids cannot self regulate with phones period I would also say adults cannot self regulate with phones they are stronger

than us I have a very hard time if my phone's anywhere near me not grabbing it and think about something to do so the idea that a kid won't self regulate or isn't listening or isn't getting off when they know their time is up I think

we have to actually say like they are literally incapable of doing that and I think that's actually a really important foundation because it changes the types of interventions we would even think to use so that's two three our number one job as parents is to keep our kids safe and maybe that's

obvious but it's also it's a line I've said to my kids and say we're young when my issues weren't screens but it was like I don't know throwing sand at another kid and you know the sandbox at which point I pick my son up and he's like no no and you know we've thrown five times I'm picking you up I'm bringing you to the car my number one job is to keep you safe and I will keep you safe even when you're upset with me like I used to like and so interesting how I think

about that now our number one job is to keep our kids safe and we love our kids so much that we will keep them safe even when they're upset with us and putting that into practice is messy for sure but I still think the principle really matters my number one job is not keep my kid happy it's to keep my kids safe I actually say that to make it's a lot what's my number one job to keep you safe for happy I know safe right but it's really true okay next as parents we

can change our rules any time like to me this is one of the biggest things I would talk about with parents in private practice they'd be like these are the things that aren't working and it would be like they're bad times too late or screen rules and be like okay talking about changing them like it's too late it's like it's been like this you know I don't know like imagine imagine being on a plane flying to California and like it's not just turbulent like major issues and you have to make an

emergency landing and the pilots like well I don't know we've got to go to Los Angeles so I guess there's nothing we could do we're like what like change course and if the pilot was like we're going to make an emergency landing in Denver and all the passengers like what that's so annoying and the pilot was like you know what forget it forget it everyone seems pretty upset we're just going to keep going like I don't think anyone would want that pilot you'd actually

probably be pissed at your pilot for even though like you believe maybe it's dangerous but maybe you underestimate it you're like we have to lend a denver I'm so annoyed but like you'd be so freaking grateful that the pilot knew what their job was even though people were putting up a protest and like we are that pilot for our kids you can change altitude change course change rules and if you know your kid has their phone in the room when they're doing their homework

period like our kids should not have their phones in their room when they're doing their homework and let's even take that and play it out well my kid always does and they're like not just 13 anymore they're 17 and how could I change that I'm going to walk through how to change that hey sweetie I have to say I'm going to tell you and you're I know you're not going to like it but look I've been thinking about certain things and my number one job is to like help make good

decisions even when you're upset with me that's actually how much I love you but I'm willing to make decisions that I really do believe are good for you even if you're going to be really really mad at me and I'm about to share one of those decisions when you come home from school we have a box to put your phone in and it's not walking away that phone comes back to you as soon as you finished your homework and I know you're used to having your phone in your room and I know I've

allowed it and we've argued about it starting tomorrow it's not happening I just want to be clear it's not and if you yell at me and if you're mad it's not happening and the reason it's not happening is because it's not like you have bad willpower it is literally impossible to focus on schoolwork for even adults it would be while we have in a device that has so many fun games on it right next to us and I know that's a change and I know that the first couple days will be

hard and they actually know that at some point after it'll become a lot easier. It's just like and and I know in my modeling of that for sure it's really easy to say that to you like you're not my kid and you're not about to like yell at me right but what parents say to me all the time is like the way you said that sounded like actually nice but like no nonsense like I didn't doubt that you meant that you know because I think our kids smell our doubt and also what we

do and I just want to model this. I know you notice your grades have been slipping and and I'm just thinking about your phone in your room and I know you know that's not a good idea right you know that's not a good idea right and I think today we should try that literally is like a pilot coming on

being like you guys know it's a good idea to land in Denver right like can I just get a vote out there don't you think it's a good idea to have an emergency landing you'd be like where is my leader this is crazy talk just tell me you know and I think that metaphor matters so much because what I would tell parents to do and I really mean this concretely get out your phone first write a script for yourself you can read it to your kids if this is new for you to kind

of embody your authority in an appropriate way right not in a mean way but an appropriate way get out of voice recorder and read the script into your phone and then play it back to yourself it's amazing you'll be like wow I really sounded like I was asking my kid I didn't even believe myself I didn't even believe myself and then say it again and you'd be like wow that sounded like mean and harsh and critical okay okay so I have the two ends let me try it again like

literally just it's like we said it's like practice right and it goes back to boundaries right like I can't ask my kid to be doing my job for me and I think we do that a lot with kids and they smell it and it's why they act out more not to take advantage of us but because they don't feel like they have a sturdy leader do you think that's that happened or more prone to happen when we want them a lot of parents seem to want to be friends with their kids first and

sort of the pilot second and do you think when we can flate those two things that we tend to be like getting trouble yeah it's interesting like I think about how important it is to be connected to our kids and let's say friends is a form of connection I don't know though like in my close friendship

some not boundary lists like I don't think a good friendship is always making my friends happy so that's someone definition of friend then I guess then they're trying to be friends with their kids to me that's never how I try to be friends with my friends definitely not with my kids to me any good

relationship comes from both being connected to someone else and connected to yourself yeah maybe maybe it's more like you want your kid to like you I think that's what it is human need right and I think though we know also from so much research how much teens like have find so much comfort when

they're when their parents are protecting them they don't gratify you like by the way if I said this thing just like about the phone thing like my son even if I delivered the way it's not going to be like mom you are such a sturdy leader and I feel so taken care of bio I just want to tell you that no no he would not that would be crazy down my son my son too would be like that's not fair and all my friends do and you're saying you don't trust me or you

saying you don't trust me that I'm be like sweetie this is not about trust this is actually just about me making a decision that I know is the right one that's really all it's about I think this also relates to something we

aren't taught and therefore don't expect his parents that two things that are totally independent is us making a good decision as a parent and our kid having a big emotional reaction they're both equally true and equally valid we kind of fool ourselves into thinking like if I make an amazing

decision as a parent my kids going to be like that sounds good you know but we also do the opposite is that when we see our kid be very mad at us we think it means we made a bad decision and to me the idea of like two things are true I'm allowed to make decisions and my kid is allowed to have emotional reactions neither is more true than the other neither is more right than the other they're just two truths I have to hold at once can really prepare us

and so if you're going to have a conversation like this we can go through other things about this to actually going in as a parent and I always call this emotional vaccination right like vaccinating ourselves like I would actually go through this this was me and I was nervous this is like a new

thing for me to do I'd probably like play this out with a partner or friend I'd be like can you can you be our son like can you do it I'd give myself a rep like it is like taking foul shots in the gym like I find sports to be like most useful metaphor like you know we take foul shots in the gym so we can do it in the game like well you're going to do something for the very first time to your teenage son who you know is going to be upset and you think that's

going to feel great or feel even successful of course not like do a drive run do it with your friend and have them I would really have my husband in the case because like no and like it will feel a little funny because I know he's acting but my body will start to develop like a little bit of a circuit for saying it for tolerating it so then at least with my son it's my second time and not like the first time no I think that's a beautiful way to sort of

tie it together do you think a lot of my friends sort of like try to I don't know resolve this issues the right word but it's like well if you get above you know 80 you can have X amount of video game time per day and if your report card

has your grades above 90 you can have X times two what is that doing well I think now we're talking about so many different things about like grades and about our focus on them and kids building intrinsic motivation versus extrinsic motivation and you know I the part of that that I think is well

intentioned okay is I mean there's everything's well intention but there are me that strikes me about that in a positive ways I think to some degree we're saying I want to make sure you're like doing the developmental tasks of your age like you're supposed to be going to school is supposed to be doing your work and if I think you're and we both think you're kind of capable of performing a certain way not for some outside reason but just because it's in line with

your abilities like I want to make sure you're progressing in that way and maybe these are markers that you're kind of completing those developmental tasks I get that I don't think that's how kids receive it I think it feels like

grades are the thing that matters and you know that's all I mean I really I don't think there's a perfect system so that's what I think we're all like muddying around in this I do think when it comes to you know screen time and how much and when to me this is like actually a great time to like call

kind of a family meeting of sorts that's what I call them where especially as your kids get older to say hey like I think we should have a meeting you know and really talk about screen time and when it happens and where it happens and I'm gonna have some ideas you're gonna have some ideas will kind of get them all down on paper and then we'll probably agree on some ideas that each of us don't totally love but can agree to right and then actually doing that and to be like

okay so when should you let's talk about when you're gonna do video games other things related to that are homework are you know playing you know with your sister you know are you know like general how are you doing in school I don't think that's the only thing that matters but maybe it's one data source that we think about okay let's go through it and then what I think is really key okay is when you start to brainstorm first of all to literally write

things down that's not like just something I'm saying when you write down things other people are saying especially if there are topics that are kind of conflictual the other person immediately feels respected right like imagine your boss being like wait you want to raise me right down all the reasons you be like wow I feel very seen you know so to actually write it down and to start this off in a productive way it's really helpful to like break the ice a little

bit as a parent with like the first thing so we'd be like when can you play video games right and maybe like I would start off saying like you know I've actually totally changed my mind and I kind of feel like you probably only need three hours of sleep and so I think you should play video games from I don't know probably from like 10 p.m. to like 4 a.m. okay so I'm just gonna write it down and like my son but like if I get the eye roll he thinks he's rolling his eyes

and I'm like I just one there because like I'm just like starting so I'd write one video games from you know 10 p.m. to 4 a.m. okay two and as soon as you start that way your kids going to be a little more engaged right and then I would write it down and then you review oh 12 you know oh not many hours of games oh you know what I don't know 10 p.m. to 4 a.m. it's like it's kind of a lot you know and I don't know maybe you need more than three hours I'm just gonna like kind of put an

X in that one's probably not our best idea and again what you hear in this example is this is me and my son against kind of the video game schedule it's me against my son I love that because it's you're sitting on the bench in your word and you're like here's the problem we're on the same side of the table and we're trying to address this problem together I think that's a really effective way to do it how do you think about currency and I think that's what it is right

people are trying to find a currency to control a behavior yes and it has implications on long term but like half the time and like I feel like I deserve an Olympic medal just for the kids you know not dying that day and making it through the day and I imagine other parents feel the same way you know it's like oh my god you know I just did this normal day but it feels like an Olympic level effort I just need to like find these little things that I mean there's

trade-offs right like I need to figure out today before I can figure out long term how do you think about that in terms of yeah we we want our kids to be intrinsically motivated we can't let them regulate their own screen time for many parents of teens it's one of the few currencies they actually care but I mean I remember myself as a teenager my mom be like you can't have this I mean like whatever I don't need anything you know like that whole attitude at one

point she took everything out of my room she literally this is my mom right like we're gonna have a power struggle you're going to lose I come in my room there's like a mattress on the floor there's no nightstand there's no alarm clock there's no nothing and you know in that moment I was like all right it's probably not but of course I'm like lying there just like looking at the ceiling and I will show no weakness right well I'm trying to get to the bottom of your question because when

I think about currency to me and maybe it kind of goes back to your question of like the status of our relationship with our kid to me if we're thinking about our relationship with our kid in terms of what we could give or take away that they care about we're not a great place because I think if someone heard my husband being like what can I take away from Becky or give her if she just you know did the dishwasher more like me like wow I don't I don't know if I can

answer your question as much as I'm struck by this disturbing nature of your question well so this is super interesting so I was at the gym before this and I was actually thinking about this and I was like I wonder if a good indicator that what I'm doing is parenting is probably not ideal if I wouldn't do it to an adult I mean I think that that's you know like here's a great example of that like I think when the number one thing people tell me is there's a lot

of things that is my kid isn't listen my kid isn't listening to me they don't listen to me right like it's so common and you know I think about this like if I was sitting in my couch and I was just like you know in the two minutes I have before my kids go to bed and I go to bed my two minutes like reading a book and my husband was also in the couch and he's like hey can you go to the kitchen get me water and I was like I'm like reading my book like sorry like you can

get water and if he was like you have a listening problem and I'm gonna take away your phone okay I just I feel like if someone was watching I feel like they'd be like Becky like I feel like that's gaslighting at best maybe abusive

like I feel like that is that is if anything that is his problem you just didn't get him water right and we do that to our kids all the time and if you're like me in your words and when she's like turn off the TV you're not even near them you're just like yellow be like my husband in his room being

like go get me water and bring into the bedroom and I'm like WTF no and then he punishes me and we do that to our kids all the time so listening cooperation like why would I get my husband water really I'd either get a water because I was scared of him I would wiring fear next to love is not

something I recommend because yes what that means I'll lay it out is your kid will go into their adult relationships thinking loving relationships are one in which you fear your partner and that's who they'll be attracted to literally that's what their attraction will be I don't know any adult who

wants that so I do not recommend for a lot of reasons why else would I get my husband water well for sure I probably wouldn't have yelled at me across but if he was like I know this is annoying and we're both like kind of trying to run things or anyway get me water the reason I'd say yes is because I felt close to him maybe early in the day he listened to me maybe he's been really supportive and I that's why because I feel close to him and if he said to me if

you get me want if you get me one just like if you get me water 10 days in room and give you a dime in necklace okay I feel like okay I probably will but I would also feel like our relationship is probably like not in a great place it's transactional it's transactional what's so tricky is teens will get to the age when like they don't have to hang out with you and like they're too big to put in a time out and they don't care about sticker charts and they don't care

about rewards and I think about this teen who you know him and his parents came to see me you know in my practice and they came only because he had stopped going to school so like it was you know that's pretty intense like school refusal right like then you're like shoot like what do I do my 14 year old stopping and I had the whole history and this was a kid and the parents were always getting all these recommendations like the kid was quote difficult they

did a lot of time outs and punishments and sticker charts and rewards and ignoring and power struggles and they missed out on 14 years of having a relationship with him they never relationship with him and now he was big and old and never too late we did so much work there was a lot of repair and

moving forward in a very different direction but yes like are it sounds so obvious but it's like our kids are human yeah like they're human they're closer to adults than they are to animals that you're trying to train and shape their behavior and yes I think the way to think about your relationship

with your kid in the place it's at is like the way we relate to each other and the way I relate to my child like it's not the same but is it based on the same principles at least in which I would engage in my like healthiest adult relationship now I think that's a really good approach to it I mean I

haven't really thought of it in that way I mean I sort of like am I worst I catch myself using that as a currency and you know it's a currency when I say you can't have it until you do your homework right and there's a way in which I think that could be shifted so like let's say it's like you can have your phone until you do homework to me this actually is all about that mindset am I looking at you on one side of the table or we on the same side of the table like my son

my right has a phone okay my oldest and like he doesn't get us between getting home and doing this homework right he has no his phone and then he gets it after but not because like first like not because like I'm not gonna give it to

until after it's like out of again like this is a problem we're both in together like it would it's hard to have your phone and perform well and like I know he wants to do well inherently I also know phones are addicting and playing a video game or looking up stats on ESPN is inherently

more fun than doing hard math homework for anyone so I'm helping him I'm protecting him but through this boundary so hey sweetie just a reminder your phone goes here it's just too hard for any of us to focus you know with our phone right there when we're doing hard work and yeah as soon as it's all done this will come back to you like and that's also the way I would want again like my partner or another adult to talk to me that's a big takeaway for me from

this conversation is just approaching it like you would approach an adult that you're in a long-term relationship with you can't win the day at the expense of the decade and you have to approach it in a way the mindset really matters by which you approach the conversation even if the outcome is likely to be the same and I think that that's fascinating I have a couple quick questions perhaps before we wind up here great one question that one of my friends had was

about when adolescence is actually over it seems like it's become a prolonged life stage and there's even been formal proposals now to increase the end range from 19 to 24 do you agree with this how should parents and societies sort of like gear themselves up for this so I don't know if that's like it actually just makes me think like again if I'm sitting on the same side of the table as my kid would be like hey you're an adult now like I don't know I feel like I'm

going to look at it all right see yeah like okay but I think I'm relying this question is like when does my kid become more independent and like when do they start to take care of themselves right and I actually think this gets

back to something we didn't touch on but you mentioned earlier which is the idea of like letting our kids struggle right to me one of the things that I think for some reason is getting increasingly hard to do in parenting is just it's just letting your kid live the results of like

their actions you know and to me that's not like the word consequence but to me a great example and it does relate to prolonged adolescence versus I think when we say launching into adulthood it's just like feeling capable and feeling more independent is I think we have to ask ourselves like when my

kids are young and entering adolescents forgetting prolonged am I setting them up for that right am I setting them up what is the circuit I'm always thinking about this what is the circuit I'm building with my kid so for example my kid recently had swim in middle school

um and I saw he forgot his bathing suit right and like I probably could have like jumped in my car or something and I'm just like okay what's the circuit and and this is not have to be like all the time but in general it's like okay

he forgets you know and then someone remembers for him okay right he forgets he doesn't have his bathing suit his swim his gym teacher is like oh like you need to have your bathing whatever happens and my guess is then he'd be more likely to remember right as long as I'm stepping in and doing the

remembering for my kid I don't know why we think our kid is going to start doing the remembering for themselves it actually reminds me of the towel maybe I'd say seems hard to remember how could you remember like how and he'd be

like oh maybe I'll do the towel thing I'll put it I think a great idea right so I think one of the things I have to think about if we don't want to have this like prolonged adolescent center kid is just how am I scaffolding skills that my kid can have how am I helping them build independence

and in what ways am I picking short-term gains but at the expense of maybe long-term skills and we all have to give ourselves permission to that sometimes sometimes you're like I just have to make it easy like don't forget your homework or something right but I think in general the

pattern I think that's something we can really reflect on and then maybe shift you know a little bit with our kids what do you think about competitive sports what do I think about competitive sports I mean you know I'm not sure exactly how I had answered that but I don't know if you're there's a lot of things that I start thinking about I think about how early kids are you know I think pushed into these like super intense sports where I feel like when I was

growing up kids did a lot of different things and then I'm also thinking I don't know if this is where you're thinking about about parents parents' relationship with their kids athleticism and what you know goes on in the sidelines and kind of

I think in a way like our unlived dreams you know translated into pressure and identification with our kids you know and is almost hard to separate who's engaging in the competitive sport like my my kid or or me um and so I think you know I think what's important as much as possible is to

try to really like center our kids in this like what are they like what are they interested in are they seeming to get something out of this what's their wish what's my wish is it their wish because they're interested or they just trying to like they kind of notice how happy this seems to make

me and they want to be like a good you know daughter in my eyes and like those questions are hopeful to two final questions before we wrap up here why do we as parents wrap up so much of our identity and this goes back to a few things we've talked about earlier in our kids

and we we sort of like want to live vicariously through them in some ways or one up other parents or think our way as better and it's sort of like the worst part of ourselves and uh you know I noticed this a lot with other people probably not myself and I'm definitely I'm sure I do it sometimes but

we wrap ourselves up and our kids' successes or failures and we think we're good parents if they if they're doing good and we're bad parents if they're doing bad and I think probably for a number of reasons I think we're just like very unprepared psychologically for what happens when we become a parent you know our kids come along and so many of our on-live dreams are insecurities things we never got to do we don't even realize how we see our kids as like a channel to like achieve

those things and we think we can like heal ourselves you know through through our kids as opposed to the opposite journey which is like pausing and instead of gazing outward like to our kids to fix them almost gazing inward like what's going on for me here I think everyone

who's becoming a parent should probably take time to reflect and like what are my insecurities what are the parts of life that I you know regret or didn't get or you know did I never become a D1 athlete and what would that become what would be like if I had a kid like what's probably going to come

out right I think we're kind of unprepared for the amount of self-reflection being a like very present parent who's actually centered on our kid requires yeah that's so fascinating as you said that it sort of like jogged this thought which was you know at some point in our

probably 35 to 50 age range were like okay well this is where I'm at in life but now there's this duover right everything is possible again with with children and so I might not have got all the things that I wanted to get out of life but now all of a sudden I can put all of my pressure on you as a child and that's right I'm always you know I don't know if you read far from the tree by Andrew Solomon but to me the prologue the first page like I think every parent should

read and it just starts them saying there's no such thing as a reproduction like the word reproduction is a fantasy oh that's absolutely yeah you produce and what he says about parenting because what parenting pilias is being forever cast into a relationship with a stranger and every time I just

think I just think so many of our struggles as parents come down to that like we don't reproduce we produce and this kid is a stranger and our job is to kind of get to know them um but the word reproduction brings like right from the start brings up very different fantasies for us

that's beautiful and the final question we always ask every guest is what is success for you I think success as I'm being able to like live in line with values I think to me that's like feels good like when you're aware of what your values are

and you're able to kind of act and behave most of the time in a way that's really in line with them um I think it's really circles back to our conversation I think our ability to do that really depends on our emotion regulation skills on our strong relationships you know

about reflecting and being curious about why we do the things we do but to me like I feel really successful on days when I feel like oh and like I'm living in line with things that I value I'm showing up in the world in that way it's a beautiful way to end this thank you so much

thank you what an incredible conversation with Dr. Becky I think the two biggest things that I took away from that the three biggest things actually were her solution to approaching challenging conversations when somebody brings something up which is

I'm glad you're telling me about this I believe you and tell me more that three steps those are amazing AVP it relates to AVP which we sort of hit on on the podcast which I thought was incredible the second one that I thought was really interesting the

second point the big point that I took away from this was it's me and you and me and my kids me and your partner whoever you're with against the problem and that mindset shift is huge which is you're not the problem we have a problem and we're trying to solve

this problem together that mindset shift is incredibly powerful and the third thing I really took away from this was just how much we're putting on our teens when it comes to self-regulating around video games which is something she mentioned it casually and I had never really thought about it in this way which is silly because when I got to work I usually leave my phone in a different room if I need to concentrate and I do that because I've developed this physical solution and environmental

solution to this problem I don't want to focus on my phone I want to focus on work so I'm not going to have my phone with me I can't even control my impulses around my phone which is exactly why I'm doing that yet we expect our kids to be

able to do that and I thought a little bit about the currency thing I'm going to have to chew on this a little bit I do that sort of in my worst moments I guess where I'm like you can have this if you do this and I don't think that's the I want to get away from that as a parent so I hope

you took away something super valuable from this conversation if you're watching this on YouTube leave a note below let me know what the most valuable part was for you if you're listening to it send me an email shane at pharnamstreetplow.com or and just let me know what you thought was

the most useful part of this conversation it's something I want to explore more so if you have questions let me know hopefully I'll talk to more people about this stuff and I really appreciate you listening and as you can tell when I say let's listen and learn it's time to listen and learn

you're learning with me on this journey and I appreciate you thanks for listening and learning with us for a complete list of episodes show notes transcripts and more go to fs.blog slash podcast or just google the knowledge project the pharnamstreet blog is also where you can learn more about

my new book clear thinking turning ordinary moments into extraordinary results it's a transformative guide that hands you the tools to master your fate sharpen your decision making and set yourself up for unparalleled success learn more at fs.blog slash clear until next time