Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello and welcome to the Knowing Self Knowing Others podcast, the fortnightly podcast that explores self-awareness, leader effectiveness, and leadership at all levels. Join me your host, Nia Thomas. As we talk to today's Knowing Self, knowing others guest, Alison Smith.
It's absolutely lovely to speak to you, and it's the first time we've actually had a conversation. We've certainly followed each other and had lots of chats on LinkedIn. And one of the ways that I've certainly got to know you was through your book. So for listeners who don't know of your book, it's called Can't See the Wood For the Trees, landscaping Your Life to Get Back On Track And they can find it on Amazon. Okay. And I'm gonna ask you to introduce yourself in a minute, and I would like you to tell listeners a bit about your book, because your model of coaching is really unique and I'd never heard of anything quite similar and I thought it was just brilliant. So it's fabulous to have you here. Please do introduce yourself and tell us more about your book.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Uhhuh,
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Absolutely fascinating. And I've really enjoyed the book. And it's so, it makes so much sense to, to see your problem from a different perspective and see it from a perspective where you can imagine a change. So I thought it was absolutely brilliant. So if we have any listeners who are a bit stuck in their world at the moment, then please do pick up a copy of the book.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
So with that, I'm gonna ask you some questions and I will be very interested to hear how you approach the answers based on your experience and your view of the world. How do you define self-awareness?
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Speaker 2 (06:40):
And, and self-awareness to me is suddenly realizing there is so much more to know about me. I just thought I just experienced and reacted to the world with no awareness of who I was. And therefore, self-awareness, I suppose, is the conscious awareness. It's the lifting of the veil. Oh my God. That all of that is me and I have a choice about it. So I suppose there's also something around a choice of how I behave rather than it being this is me and this is how I am. And there is no other way of me acting in the world other than like that
Speaker 1 (07:21):
What an interesting view. So both situational and environmental, I guess. Yeah. All of that changes your awareness of yourself.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Do you think there is a relationship between self-awareness and leader effectiveness?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Interesting.
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Speaker 1 (09:45):
Wow. That's fascinating. And it's very interesting that you, you say that the, the number of times that I've thought about different, different ways of working, different aspects of the work we do, what we do, how we do it, starts with self-awareness.
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Speaker 1 (10:20):
I'm definitely with you all the way there. Do you think effective leaders can be found at all levels of organizations?
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Speaker 1 (10:35):
What does that mean and what does that look like for you?
Speaker 2 (10:40):
I think to, for me, it's about inspiring others to either be better themselves to inspire change, inspire action. And therefore, absolutely you can, you know, actually I was on the phone call to somebody really annoyed today on about mid bank
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Speaker 2 (11:03):
But, but he, he, he, the question he asked me in response to my frustration absolutely took all that frustration out. And I just thought, and I actually arti, I, I articulated it and said, that was a great question.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Oh, tell,
Speaker 2 (11:20):
That was a great question. Now, it could be that it's on a script somewhere about this is what you do, but I think there was an element of Yeah. That inspired and it, and it facilitated change in me just in, in the one question,
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Are you able to share that question with us?
Speaker 2 (11:36):
I can't remember whether another one, I can't remember whether I can remember now, but it was, yeah, I can't remember it. It's, it's sort of gone. I can remember the experience the question left me with, and perhaps that's where that leadership comes from, that we don't necessarily have to remember the words, but we remember the, how we felt as a result of the receiving end of that behavior.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah. There's a, there's a quote that you often see on LinkedIn saying, you, you often forget what people did, but you'll never forget how people made you feel.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
And, and that's the case in point. Jean, do you think leaders at the most strategic level of organizations have greater self-awareness than leaders at other levels of organizations?
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
But then I, but I wonder whether that's just because they're the ones we see actions of more frequently. Okay. And therefore, in my experience as a coach, then, you know, people are self-aware. They're not self-aware. I don't know whether or not their position in the organization differs. So the answer to that would be, I don't know that leaders are any more or less self-aware certain behaviors that got them where they got to. Yeah. One of the things I talk about is taking our humanity into business. So the other thing about my filters is the fact that I'm much more likely to either notice leaders who are absolutely bringing their humanity in, and therefore I would suggest very self-aware, or I'm really noticing those leaders that don't bring the humanity in. And I would suggest quite often are not very self-aware.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
So do you think that that their portrayal of self-awareness changes based on which, whether they have a mask on, or whether they're, you know, whether they're in front of the crowd of 150 managers or whether they're in an office, having a one-to-one with you, do you think that changes how they display that?
Speaker 2 (14:07):
This is one of those times where I'll say something and let's explore that. My sense is the more self-aware you become, the more the lay the more layers are removed.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Okay.
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Speaker 1 (16:25):
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah, I think so. Cause I think, I think you've got more choice then about, oh, I always feel as if I have to act in this particular way when I'm in business. Yeah. You know, business looks like this which I fight against.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
I suppose you limit your options by doing that.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Well, I think so, but I think there's a lot of people there that go, you know, how, how often do we see in LinkedIn or that's for Facebook. It's like, yeah, yeah. That's how people, you know, that's how you and I are even here talking. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
It
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Do you think effective leaders have more self-awareness than ineffective leaders?
Speaker 2 (17:56):
I would say so
Speaker 1 (17:57):
What example do you have? I guess the, you you, you've worked in the world of work for many years. Have you had any examples where you've seen that effective leadership, effective leadership and that Yeah. I mean,
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Coaching client, you know, last year where came with a problem and I hadn't appreciated the impact their behavior was having on the problem Yeah. And, and was causing the problem. It's like, oh my God, that is why they are reacting to me like that. That's why I'm not getting the best out of them because I'm not communicating effectively to them. You know, half of what he was saying was in his head and he was assuming that they understood what he meant. Right. they were just observing his behavior and therefore, well, actually making a whole host of judgments about what the, the few words he was saying, plus behavior. And we're making a whole load of judgments. Once, once that self-awareness increased because I was able to help him look at his own behavior and go, so how, if you were at the receiving end of that behavior, how would you, you know, where would your head go?
Speaker 2 (19:10):
And then for work with, oh, okay, so this, so this is how I could behave differently that would facilitate a different reaction from the other person. And so in on a couple of occasions in both instances, he actually went and spoke to the other people involved to say, look, this is what I think's going on. Can we have a conversation? And, and in both instances came up with very different action plans based on an, on a awareness that he had. Yeah. About, oh, it's, it's me. It's how I, I'm seeing the world, how I'm going about the world. People are misinterpreting.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
That is really exciting to hear because one of the things that I picked up from my research was that for me, self-awareness has got three layers. So it's internal self-awareness, internal social self-awareness, and external social self-awareness. Oh. And they are reflection, recognition, and then that outer layer of responding. And you've just absolutely described it in practice. It's that I get me, I get what people think of me, and if I change how I behave and I communicate, I change the response to me and change the response to the problem and the action plan or whatever goes with it. And it absolutely, that is all about self-awareness.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yeah. There's the one of the presuppositions of neurolinguistic programming is the res the meaning of the communication is the response that you get. And that's hard because it's the, you know, they're misunderstanding you because you are not communicating in a way that they understand it's not their problem. They're not awkward, they're not resistant. You are just not communicating in a way that has yet motivated them.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Communication is in the eye of the beholder.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yes,
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Definitely. Alison, it's been absolutely brilliant talking to you. Really, really interesting conversation. Thank you so much for joining me today. You mentioned you had a podcast. Do you wanna give a shout out to your podcast?
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Oh, that will be lovely. Absolutely Landscaping your life. So you'll find me here, there and everywhere. Landscaping your life or find the book, even though the books can't see the wood for the trees, it's can't see the wood for the trees. Landscaping your life. So if you do landscaping your life on any of the book stockies, you'll find it quicker actually than, can't see the wood for the trees and yeah. On any podcast. Can't see the wood for the trees will find yeah, you'll find me.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Wonderful. Thank you very much. I'll certainly be chiming in. And I hope listeners will be as well. Alison, thank you once again. It's been great.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Thanks Nia.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Thank you for joining me, your host Nia Thomas at the Knowing Self, knowing Others podcast. If you'd like to know more about self-awareness, leader effectiveness, and leadership at all levels, please take a look at my website, knowing Self, knowing Others dot Code uk, you can also join me on YouTube, LinkedIn or Twitter. Make sure you bookmark the Knowing Self, knowing Others Podcast and tune into the next step sold in two weeks time. I look forward to having you on my learning journey.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
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