Fertile Fathers & The Death of the West: Freezing Eggs, IVF, Birth Control, Vasectomies, QuiverFull, & More

These temples house the Old Pagan Gods . In this cultural city , one temple is richly adorned and filled with worshippers more than others . This temple houses the Old Demon Gods of fertility and prosperity . Any pre-Christian civilization had their fertility gods .

They practiced evil sacrifices and ritual rites to petition this demon god to give them children , prosper financially or to make their land fertile for crops .

It may seem odd to say that the fertility gods of old are worshiped today , but birth rates have plummeted since the 1950s , where the average worldwide birth rate was five births per woman , whereas in 2021 , it was 2.3 births per woman . The balance between fertility and prosperity is challenging for the modern adherents of these fertility religions .

On one hand , child sacrifice is higher than ever before in human history . The worshipers of Molek would blush at the astounding number of children our culture offers for their prosperity . Women want to have their prosperity and fertility when they choose , while still participating in modern temple prostitution .

These all have modern wrappings , but are of the same sacraments of the Old Gods . In rebellion against the Triune God , women attempt to circumvent his creation and become little gods . Their desire for prosperity runs into reality . They only have so many childbearing years .

They sacrifice their children for their career , but want the option to have children later , with or without a husband . An increasing number of women opt to have their eggs removed and cryogenically frozen for later use . A 2022 New York Times article details this growing practice for career women .

Emily Gersh woke up a few weeks after her 42nd birthday with what she called intense panic , the sudden sense that , despite wavering in her 30s , she now knew she wanted to be a mother . Miss Gersh lived in New York City at the time and barked on three separate rounds of egg freezing , one right after the other , in the summer of 2020 .

She didn't expect to enjoy the process , she said , but as she sat in the waiting room between seemingly endless blood tests , looking around at the rows of other women , masked and spaced out six feet apart , miss Gersh felt the sense of community , something she craved during the pandemic . I just savored every moment , she said .

Months after her third retrieval , she used donor sperm to fertilize eggs , creating an embryo , and in 2021 , at the age of 43 , she gave birth to her son . They now live in Switzerland , where Miss Gersh , a single mother by choice , works at a pharmaceutical company . I just appreciated so much more to know this is something I deliberately chose .

This is exactly the life I wanted , she said , and I created that . Since approving the procedure , it has gone mainstream . Facebook and Apple announced they would cover up to $20,000 in costs for their employees , prompting other companies vying to attract and retain top talent to follow suit .

Egg freezing startups sprouted across a country , throwing egg freezing parties and offering quick , free fertility tests in parked vans . The procedure was touted by many as a potential equalizer in the workplace , promising to have as much of an effect on a woman's life as a contraceptive pill has had Over the decade .

Since the ASRM announcement approving egg freezing , the number of people who have frozen their eggs in the United States rose by more than 400% to over 13,000 in 2020 , from just over 2,500 in 2012 .

According to data from the Society of Assisted Reproductive Technology , most are white middle-class professionals and a growing number roughly 35% , compared to 25% in 2012 are women under the age of 35 . Despite more women freezing their eggs in the last decade , fertility experts and endocrinologists don't have a clear success rate of live births from frozen eggs .

They only have probabilities and a majority of those women don't go back to use their frozen eggs . A small study from 2017 found that only 6% of those who froze their eggs between 1999 and 2014 used them to get pregnant . The Kings Hall Podcast exists to make self-ruled men who rule well and win the world .

But first of all , after that cold open , I just want to say I appreciate and enjoy the way babies were made , the old-fashioned way . I'm going on the record .

Brian was like no , you know what . I respect Eric For that . Brian .

First comes love , then comes marriage . What comes next ? Brian , the baby and the baby carriage , the baby in the baby carriage . There's a lot of Christians today who actually don't know this .

You know it's crazy .

We're going to talk about the problems but then we're going to talk about the solutions . They're actually to me they're it's kind of funny biblically because they're so plain as day for people who are willing to see it . We need to honor the command in Genesis 128 , be fruitful and multiply . Let's make big families great again .

Brian , I want to ask you one question as you think about the state of Christianity today . Do you think children are priority for most Christians ?

the problem is that , I see , is that all what we're doing is we're wholesale and in many cases , adopting the sexual ethic of secularism , which is lots of sex with lots of people but no babies , or if you have any , kill them and over against the , I mean , and so much as this . The Christian view , this is like . There is no historical question at all .

The Christian view is covenant marriage , man and a woman , lifelong covenant and have children and enjoy them , and lots of children , and raise them in the discipline of the Lord , and this is a blessing and this is a good thing and that , biblically , not having children is a curse .

Like people listening that have infertility , they know it's a curse , they weep over it and we mourn with them and we pray for them . And we have this in our church regularly in the pastoral prayer we're often bringing to the Lord hey , this couple would love the blessing of children . Would you please bless them with children ? Open the womb . So absolutely .

I think that the state of the Christian culture has far too much been impacted or were encultrated by the death cult of secularism .

It was all based on a baby boom . The prosperity was tied directly to the number of children that were had by people coming out of World War II . Then that generation turns around and says thank you for the prosperity . I'm going to be 100% , completely selfish and now we're going to do everything we can to stop having children .

A lot of nations have actually figured that out . We'll talk about it more in just a minute . But children are a function of prosperity , they're not the curse . But today we treat them as the curse . Yeah , I know , financial burden .

And I'll read this lengthy section from Death of the West by Pat Buchanan in a moment . But I think you're right . So in the 1950s , I read in the cold open that the average number of births per woman worldwide was five , and it dropped to 2.3 in I think it was 2021 . It's anticipated to drop to 2.1 by 2050 , which is less than replacement .

Well , even just the principle of multiplication , yeah , two times what not ?

You're like , well , we're outnumbered , okay , well , they don't want to have children , they just want to steal yours . Liberals don't reproduce in the bedroom , they reproduce in the classroom . Okay , have kids , keep them out of school , out of public schools . It's like , okay , that's pretty simple , and then it would change this .

But , dan , right now we have a huge problem with the birth rate .

Come the election cycle , where we're Social security comes up as an issue , like we have an aging workforce , we have more people on it than ever before .

But , eric's right , post-world War two with the baby boom , it's not a coincidence that Worldwide you had economic flourishing , not just in the United States , but worldwide economic flourishing with the number of children that we had , and it proved to be the backbone of American culture that would and society economically that we've been reaping now For a while .

But unfortunately the boomers they're now entering that retirement age and that's why there's a concern over so scary . So if you'd like , I can read this portion from , please , death of the West by Pat Buchanan . Buckle up , it's gonna be lengthy . He's talking about birth rates specifically in different countries , and this is about Italy .

Prospects for the Italian race , which gave us Rome and all its glory , st Peter's and the Sistine Chapel , dante and Michelangelo , columbus and Galileo , are even more dire . Italy's birth rate has been below replacement levels for 25 years and is down to 1.2 children per woman .

At this rate , italy's 57 million people will fall to 41 million by 2050 , writes population researcher Nicholas Eberstadt of American Enterprise Institute . Barely 2% of the Italian population in 2050 would be under five years old , but more than 40% of it would be 65 or older .

The birth rate in the most Catholic and romantic of nations Adds new republics , greg Easterbrook means that Italy will be a theme park for the generations . Recent survey in the popular semi-feminist magazine Noi Donne found that 52% of Italian women between 16 and 24 planned to have no children . Career was their principal reason for not wanting any kids .

University of Rome demographer Antonio Gioni said that the nation is already dependent upon Immigrants to bear the load of its deeply indebted pension system . But now Italian culture is at risk . Gioleone believes Italy will no longer be Italian . It will be the end of society as we know it .

Gioleone , which I've said three different ways , was now called a demographic Terrorist 20 years ago , when he first warned of Italy's impending population crisis . He has called that no longer , though . Dr Gioleone remains deeply pessimistic about his country . In an increasingly globalized labor market , italy must compete with France and with the United States with India ?

How can we , with such an aged society and so few young people ? Cardinal Giacomo Bafini of Bologna has called on Rome to restrict immigration to Catholics to save the nation's identity , raising eyebrows with his remarks that Muslims have different foods , festivals and family morals . But where does his eminence propose to find these Catholics ?

Certainly not in Spain , where , in the days of Claudio General Francisco Franco , big families were sacred and received medals and gifts from the state . The Spanish birth rate is the lowest in all Europe , lower than that of Italy , the Czech Republic or Romania , all of which have fallen to 1.2 children per woman .

In Spain , the birth rate is down to 1.07 children per woman and the population is projected to fall by 25% in 50 years , as the number of Spaniards over 65 soars by 117% in one generation .

We have gone from a society in which families of eight or even 12 children and we're not unusual to one in which childless couples are common or people think long and hard about having a second child , says Madrid sociologist Victor Perez Diaz .

By 2050 , the median age in Italy will be 54 and in Spain 55 , 14 years above the median age of Japan , the oldest nation on earth . Today . Prosperity has strangled us , as Dr Proprio Dante , a leading Catholic intellectual and professor of sociology at the University of Blonia Comfort , is now the only thing anybody believes in .

The ethic of sacrifice for a family , one of the basic ideas of human societies , has become a historical notion . It is astonishing in In 1950 , spain had three times as many people as Morocco across the Strait of Gibraltar . In 2050 , morocco's population will be 50% larger .

If 100 Spanish young people marry today , they can expect to have 58 children , 33 grandchildren , but only 19 great grandchildren Unbelievable .

We can watch videos of people being shipped into our country from Mexico , from a third world , dunghole country , and they're coming into our country .

There was a recent white boy summer video and in the beginning it opens with Joe Biden saying White people are being replaced and you should celebrate this and our culture with it and you know American culture , all those things . Do you think it's a problem for Christians to recognize ?

Hey , there's a problem and we should think about this and do something about it , because a lot of people would say you're a kinest , you're a racist , you're ethnocentrous , simply for saying our population's dying and we should do something .

The third world immigrants want to come to our nation . Basically , open society , open morals , yeah , that that the idea that distinct cultures and nations are a positive good is actually racist or , you know , somehow wicked . All of these are not , those are not biblical values , but they weaponize the love of neighbor . You see David Platt do this .

I mean , even recently I saw a video where David Platt was doing this , talking about immigration and mass immigration , and they weaponize the idea of like , well , don't you want to evangelize your neighbor ? Look , the mission field is coming to you , look , look , look how amazing this is .

And the problem is that it's it's actually not loving to your neighbor to totally destroy the economy , their livelihood , to totally destroy their culture , and and we said this before on on the King's Hall .

But I think one of the aspects that's often missed in this conversation is that the left is is often Waging an asymmetrical war against Christianity and , and and it's just a proxy war where whiteness is just a proxy for Christianity , since Christianity basically built the West , christendom built the West , it built the process , christian values , christian culture Built

the prosperity of Europe and the Americas . And so when you talk about whiteness being the problem , a lot of the time what they're doing is they're actually they hate Christianity and they hate the Christian God , and so they just they sublimate that into an attack on whiteness .

But I think this is a play that we need to be aware of , this Weaponization of Christian values against Christians by the left to basically say Embrace globalism . What do they actually care about with them ? A mass immigration ? Is that they're making Democrat voters ? That's basically what it is .

At the end of the day , it's about wealth transfer is our control voter .

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Well , if you were to zoom out and just have some sort of third , like intermediary view , you would look at the spread of Muslims and of people from Mexico and from South America and the way that they're spreading . They're actually Colonializing the West . Mm-hmm , that's what's happening right now . Yeah , there's a counter Colonialization happening .

But , like one guy asked me , he said you guys are always talking about like be fruitful , multiply , have children Isn't that irresponsible when we know quote-unquote , we know Science now tells us that the world is overpopulated and we have a population crisis ?

In the end , a person , especially a godly person , will create more resources than they can themselves consume . They're a net positive to society , but they also need houses , they need food , they need consumer products , and so the economy overall grows with a growing population Because you , those people , are buying things , they're employing their neighbors .

Businesses can exist and flourish when there are more people . So what happens is the baby boomer generation . Their parents had a lot of children and then they have fewer children . Each generation begins to have fewer children and the economy is going to shrink Because there's not as many people to consume the goods .

I'm not saying that people are parasites , but people do . It's a good thing .

But when the state is in control of the , the economic flourishing of a people , yeah , it can only sustain so much .

They become an arm of the political , of the government , and Then those corporations actually exist to transfer wealth from the people To the state and to the globalist corporation and they use bureaucracy and government regulation to make sure that there's no competition .

That isn't biblical meaning like well , if there's all this wealth out there , I need to protect mine by making sure other people don't have it , and so it seems like the population control arguments are they thrive on that kind of thinking , whereas in scripture it's like I was just reading Deuteronomy 28 , and the way that God blesses his people is like I'm

overflowing in blessing to you , overflow in blessing to others . There will be plenty of blessing . There's plenty of blessing guys .

Most of that money teachers will tell you this most of that money goes to administrators Did you say that was $20,000 per student $20,000 per student per year . That includes K to 12 . That includes state plus federal K through 12 .

No , it was some kind of reasoning that requires you to be able to track with multiple storylines , bring them together , cohere in your mind and then come to some kind of logical conclusion . People could . The point was not enough . Students were able to think in what we would consider the most basic form of logic that they had to just remove it from the test .

This explains Twitter . 20,000 dollars per student produces illiteracy and total inability to reason , because the point is it's not that they're failing , by the way , it's that they're succeeding in what they're trying to do . Yes , and that's what they're trying to do , which is , again , wealth transfer , government growth , daddy state .

They're succeeding in that , absolutely .

But Rich Lust pointed this out in our episode as well , that feminism it's like sister virtue is statism , because everything that fathers aren't doing , now the state , you're going to say the state has to do . And he was referencing a study where one feminist said the state needs to regulate .

The husbands do their fair share of chores around the house and it's like how are you going to regulate that ? That is idiocy .

They're succeeding in their goal , which is to destroy every form of competing local hierarchy and power and wealth and subsume it into their power and their wealth Wealth transfer , power transfer , power consolidation .

And one of the most efficient ways that you can do that is to let women vote and then just let them vote for the kinds of things that they will vote for , which is weaponized empathy . It is subsidizing single motherhood and destroying the power of fathers . Again , genesis 3 , god said you heard his Iro before her husband , but he will rule over you .

The curse of sin for the woman landed in a disordering of loves within the hierarchy of the family . That then is expressed in every level of society where Christianity does not dominate or where Christian apostasy does dominate . You see , this disordering of all hierarchies and all loves .

I think , again , the single data point that you could point to in our country that led to a lot of this would be the rise of feminism , women's suffrage and the net political and cultural results of that . This just seems obvious to us , I think .

There's some older Christian Baptist ladies on Twitter who were just recently opining about how some Christians are saying crazy things like women shouldn't serve in the police or military and that women's suffrage was a bad idea and that's like a crazy idea .

And then you can look at there's basically only one explanation in the 20th century for why America became such a leftist country as it did , and it coincides 100% with and this is the only thing that will explain it all is women's suffrage .

So then you're like , well , okay , these seem like radical takes , but I think what happens it's the same thing with education as we identify these idols and we go to the green groves and high places and we chop them down , people go wait a minute , college for my women with a birth control pill is a human right . Yeah , like we have to have this .

And you're like wait a minute , let's think through this . What is actually good about this scenario ? And then you say , well , it is problematic . One of the things , guys , that's problematic is birth control and vasectomies . In my experience with the broader Christian church so you know most of my life in the Christian church these are very , very , very .

I'm sort of thinking like the pill and vasectomies Very normalized within the church , like if you say I would question whether a woman should be on the birth control pill and men shouldn't get vasectomies . This is one of those areas today where people are like wait , what did you just say you shout like that they put you in jail right away .

And when you just read the book of nature and the book of scripture , you come away with a very positive view that a man shall leave his father and mother hold fast to his wife . The two shall become one flesh . They will have children . God blesses and opens the womb .

He created a period where a woman is generally fertile and it's going to be , you know , a period of a couple decades where , depending on at what age she gets married and a whole lot of different variables , you're going to have a decent number of children .

And I mean , if you just went the most common view in church history , which would have been totally against that contraception of any kind .

If you fail to disciple them , then absolutely yeah , it can become a curse . But generally that's the positive foundation that Christians need to start with when they think about these questions and just be unashamed about starting from that foundation .

And then when you come to these questions of things like birth control and vasectomies , I think birth control was the first chemical birth control , hormonal birth control . That was the first one that Lexi and I reckoned with all the way back when we were , I think , 19 at the time . We're about to be married . I was 20 .

She was 19 when we were married and it was the first time that we'd ever , like I had just assumed both of us pretty much that hormonal birth control was normal . Lots of girls her age are even like hey , get on birth control for acne . Get on hormonal birth control . It solves all kinds of problems . It balances your hormones . It balances your hormones .

who are asking . And what I found so fascinating is that the majority of people writing about how nasty and horrible the pill is are atheists , feminists , who have done the research and they're like oh yeah , I mean , it's screwing with your cycle . Yeah , absolutely , would not put that in my body .

But it was saddening to me that the state of evangelical culture is so thin and so deracinated when it comes to the human body and God's absolute wisdom and glory in designing the human body . And worse are hubris and thinking we can just willy nilly completely alter the physiology of the hormonal balance of the human body and think we're improving things .

The documentaries that we found to watch all made by feminists , yeah , and they get like 90% of the facts right , and then they sprinkle in a bunch of witchy , woo , woo , crazy feminist nonsense . And then , like all of a sudden , there was one time we were watching one of these documentaries , like hey , we should watch this , and then I learned a ton .

And then all of a sudden they're like and explore your bodies , and it's like teaching , you know . And all of a sudden I'm like you know , get behind me , satan . Closing the laptop Like this is pornographic . It was so . Beware listeners .

But I think we need to reclaim this as Christians , though Christians should be producing the best work on female fertility , the female cycle and understanding the cycle as a vital sign of female physiology that God fearfully and wonderfully knit together . I mean , all of this is , and we are Christians .

We see the glory of God in this stuff and too often we're just like oh yeah , kids are hard , they're expensive , we buy all the secularist lies , we poison our women , we make ourselves barren intentionally , and then when we finally get around to it , a lot of times we find out we're infertile because of these things and oh , having babies is not as easy as we

thought after all this stuff . Or we have one or two children and we say , oh man , it's so hard . And then , in the depths of a four or six or eight week old child , we send dad in to get a vasectomy and that's it .

One of the things I think about , though in college , in philosophy I believe , we read Humanae Vitié by Pope John Paul VI , and , you know , in college we're basically making fun of it .

They're like , yeah , this idiot Pope who is like you know , birth control and the pill are really going to lead to like promiscuity and like a sexual revolution that's going to destroy America . Yeah , look how stupid this guy is . And now I look back reading Humanae Vitié and I'm like , um , yeah , no , he actually nailed that for the most part .

The birth rates , global birth rates , just show how successful that they've been in these things , yeah .

We're dating , wanted to get married , willing to talk to pastors and parents and all those things Across the church . I was told don't throw away your 20s by Christians . Yeah , don't throw away your 20s . This is a huge mistake . Go to college . I had people who encouraged me to live with my girlfriend instead of getting married Again , all Christians .

But the overall consensus was you should delay marriage . I remember a seminary professor's wife said oh , I would never encourage a young lady to get married in college . She needs to focus on her career and get that done first . And we , sort of like , didn't listen to that advice . I was married at 20 .

My wife and I went through college together , started a family , all those things it could be done . I was working . It was crazy , but wouldn't change it . If anything , I wish we would have got married younger . So , thinking about this , why do you think in our culture there is such a huge push to delay marriage for young people .

Here you have young people in their peak sexual years and you're saying to them don't get married . And then they're like why is all this fornication and sexual sin happening ?

By the way , prolonged engagement also a very bad idea . You shouldn't wait a year . In general , I mean , there are circumstances , obviously , but that's not good , because it becomes really easy to justify at that point , like , well , we're promised to each other . I mean , let's just go for it .

So anyway , we bought into a few lies and we had a lot of social pressure , like you did . Except , I gave into it instead of just saying you know what ? We're just going to get married anyway . There were a lot of expectations around that .

One of the expectations was that so my wife she , her and I were going through school when we were for most of our dating and the expectation was she was going to be a career woman . I mean , this is what she was going to be .

She was very high performer in college and then , when she got her career , the idea was that we would have enough financial stability that we could actually afford to be married together , and the idea was that , well , that means that you have enough money where money won't be a tension in your marriage , because if you look at the statistics , most of marital

strife comes from finances is what we were told . And so we were instructed that we should delay marriage so that we had enough financial foundation to where we wouldn't have problems .

So the whole idea was touted as this will make for a better marriage if you wait , if you delay your marriage and , by the way , I mean my wife and I are great , like we great marriage but that was not the case .

We had so much baggage we had to work through later , after being married , from dating for so long , that it really did cause a lot of problems . One of the one of the problems back to the topic of this episode was that we also delayed in having children . So , if you start doing the math , we waited to have kids as well because of the finances .

Mark Driscoll had said he would not marry any couple that just told him that they didn't want to have kids . If my recollection is correct I don't believe it is and hearing him say that I was like that really grates me the wrong way . That really grates me the wrong way .

And so , because my wife was a high performing , not just university student but also in the workplace , she climbed the corporate ladder very quickly . Actually , it was for a little while .

She would make more money than me and then I would get a promotion or a new job and I would make more money , and then she would get a raise and she kept climbing very quickly . The money was very , very attractive .

And so , to bring it full circle , eventually it was Pastor Brian Sauvay , his influence , that my wife and I made the difficult decision to have her leave her job , and I had actually ended up taking a job here at the church . We had a substantial reduction in our income and then we had kids .

It was a big one and we lived on our savings for a couple years . It was so big , but this would have all been alleviate .

It would have been so much better If , when I had known I want to marry this woman , so within like 18 months of dating , if I had had counsel and Been cooperative , because a lot of it is my responsibility I'm not blaming anyone else , but it would have been really helpful to have wise counsel to say you should get married , don't delay in having kids .

This is the direction you should go , and here's why , yeah , man , that would have been well even I would have so many more kids .

I remember going to one small group and we my wife and I were both like , even though we were married , a lot of people told us , like take the first like three to five years to get to know each other , get to know each other , and so , like that's what we were gonna do and this is like within like a couple months of getting married .

The pastor was like I want to teach on on what the Bible has to say about fertility and he didn't really make a Like this is what you have to do . He's like here's what the Bible says . What do you guys think ? And I was like kind of upset but I was like Well , it feels like you're saying that we have to have kids . And he's like well , I would .

What do you think the passages ? This is like one of those like what do you call the Bible studies ?

Yeah , yeah , it wasn't like heavy teaching , but I remember going through that and the next months or so I was like I started pouring over scripture , so even just a pastor who was like maybe you should look at the Bible , hey guys , we started doing that and I was like I want to put a baby in my wife , like that was the consensus people .

Okay , I could there if we read if we do the word . Principles if we do the work , we can get there . But let's just look at the book of nature . Let's just look at the book of nature . God wrote this whole book . It's like your body , her body , okay .

So what happens when a couple gets together and obeys all of the commands , like Paul saying come together frequently . Unless you're not coming together for a time of prayer by mutual agreement , otherwise come together that you not be tempted . What is going to happen ?

Well , god designed it so that once a month , your wife has a fertility window where her field is fertile , and you have this great seed and you bring it in and , oh my goodness , there's a baby right . So you have to get in and do something Actively to try and keep that all from happening , like holding it , holding it back and whoa , we don't want it .

So if you just read the book of nature , like God knew what he was doing , he , he made it all . So it kind of lines up pretty , pretty Frequently . And then we have this kind of theology that we think we can conquer nature and be our own God . This is what gay sex is , what all of it is . You're like I just I do whatever I want .

We got , you know two dowels . That works too . I don't need a dowel and doubt and the . You know I don't need the . Never mind it's gonna make a wood joinery reference there .

But you know what I'm saying like we just we think perfect of tail Brian is what and the what I would say is that the picture that all comes together From scripture in nature , these two books that God has written Would be that man absolutely Does take dominion over and order things wisely .

Yeah , so my goal isn't to get my wife pregnant as quickly as possible every time . My goal is actually to help her recover , to make sure that she has time that she's taking care of physically . My goal is to wisely order my home so I'm providing .

That means I have to make more money as kids begin to come and it puts a high degree of this season's on fatherhood . There's a high degree of pressure and responsibility on a father For his wife and his children that he's providing well and and saying honey , you can trust me with this great , big , potent , powerful thing that is your fertility .

Because you're scared , come home , don't work , depend on me , have a lot of children you like . We have to see how scary that is for women and instead what the woman has done Generally outside of the church , but then discipling the church to follow her lady .

Folly is to say I don't need no man , I'm gonna control all of this , I'm not gonna trust , I'm not gonna trust my husband or the Lord not even gonna have one . Instead , I'm gonna take dominion over this , in disobedience to the Lord , like a tower of babble way , instead of building towers isn't evil ?

They're built a waterproof tower after the flood . Do you think they're good men or evil ?

That was a very expensive joke , but in your case I , like you , didn't go to college .

So my wife has a bachelor's degree as well .

I Look back and I want to hear your story , but I look back and those were some of the best years of my life . We were dirt poor , needed a lot of help from parents and people in the church who were just super gracious with us .

We had one car for a number of years , but I would have rather done that than Traveled , focused on my Instagram account which , by the way , didn't exist back then yes , praise , quite .

Never get married , use a surrogate , disobey the Lord or just , like you know , go do entertainment , travel , college , whatever , have fun as a value proposition . Why would you still say being married , young , if you can do it , and starting a family , why is that good ? Yeah , it's it better .

Not trying to avoid the risk altogether is the most massive risk you could take . But what I would say is that for us I Knew this woman , I knew her family . We had been in Proximity of each other for , you know , close to a decade at that point by the time we got married not quite a decade , more like eight years we had been .

We knew we wanted to marry each other . Lexi said to her mom when I was 13 , I'm gonna marry him . And her mom was like oh , that's so funny . But she wasn't like saying this all time . And then she did , and I and I was like that's the woman I'm gonna marry . When she was 15 I was like that's the girl I'm gonna .

And then , from that point on , I worked to reverse engineer At the earliest possible moment that I can legally do this without getting my parents to sign some papers . What do I need to have in place to wife this woman up ?

And that was like getting up at three in the morning , working a shift at a coffee shop before school , going to high school , working after school , working multiple jobs all the time , and Then we get married , still doing that , having multiple jobs Plus full-time school , then having children , and the thing was like we made less than 20 , you know , probably 24 to

27 thousand dollars a year .

She knew I would take care of her and I knew that this was gonna be a faithful woman who was gonna do me good all the days of my life , even though we're gonna . You know , we're sinners . We had , we had things to work through , but it was like we knew that .

And people operate from Fear and they make all the bad decisions in the foundation , where they're like not in a good church , not in a good community , getting towards that age , and then they're like , ah well , who am I gonna marry ? And then they , and then they marry someone who's dumb and and apostatizes and they ruin their whole life .

And you're like , yeah , well , don't do that . But that doesn't mean don't do marriage Like it doesn't .

Just because some people take their , their car and drive it into a bridge about minute , 60 miles an hour Doesn't mean don't drive , or because maybe keep it between the ditches , my guy yeah , people are abusing something doesn't mean the thing is necessarily bad .

Yeah , we need to recover the right use the thing , not not be so fearful of other people doing foolish things . Yeah .

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Will also include the link in the show notes . I Want to move into along those lines on solutions and we'll sort of talk about what are the positive sides of this . Like you know , we'll talk about some principles .

One of the things that came up in our discussions about this topic was countries like Hungary , very based Hungary and Victor Orban , and they recently , I believe , passed a law that if you have more than four or more children , you will never pay income tax . Again based , can you ? I mean , the financials on that are pretty incredible .

Yeah , why do you think they did it ?

And so when you , when you're thinking from a country-wide Leadership and you see that , like I read in in Pat Buchanan's book , death of the West , that you have the trajectory of Countries like Spain that have 1.07 birds per woman and the average age of your populace will be 55 years old , it means you don't have any workers , so you will lose economically to

greater societies that actually have children every time . So so when a family produces Four or five , six kids , they're not just producing like , oh man , the infrastructure that it's gonna take , the public schools , the funding , the daycares , all the south social welfare programs , like it's such a huge burden .

No , the way they're thinking of is like that family has six kids , those are six future workers , those are six future People , you know , hopefully men that will defend the country , that will defend the borders .

Yeah , you have future economic resources in those men , future Productive people and the women , and so that's how they're looking at these families is like they're doing the work to continue this country's prosperity so that we don't become irrelevant or invaded . Yeah , which is what's happening is Evasions .

So in our country , starting a small business is Dan and I know this , brian , you know this . It is an absolute , absolute paperwork nightmare to get the taxes right to file your LLC , to do all these things . I mean like weeks of paperwork to do this thing . How hard is it to sign up for a welfare check ?

People need to be working on this who are lawyers , not myself . We'll definitely promote it from the show . The legal system needs to be changed . Regarding number one , get rid of no fault divorce . Yes , this is an abomination from hell . Yeah , equal weights and measures within the marriage institution . Legally , that you know you can't again .

We've talked about this before , but a woman cheats on her husband . I've known cases like this . She commits adultery , death penalty , she gets the kids all the time and he pays alimony .

But I was gonna say some things probably would have gotten us kicked off . Anyway , yeah , you have equal weights and measures and this is the loser . Thinking of the Christian right a lot of the time Is there they go .

It's the all or nothing principle where they're like , unless we can wait a second , you're saying that women shouldn't , or the family shouldn't , have to pay income taxes . Ever again if they . Well , I think no one should have to pay income taxes . Therefore , I won't support that . I'm like you guys , you guys , you guys . Let's do a little realpolitik here .

Right , let's admit where we're at as a society and aim for some achievable goals .

10 delegates and becoming a delegate is actually not that hard because most people are so politically uninvolved today that it's like they're trying to find people to do this .

Yeah , city council seats in small areas Like I'm thinking about these achievable small wins where maybe you don't necessarily build your entire city council campaign on making the entire city say Christ is Lord , that might not work . But what if you ran a city ?

What if a Christian man who was a businessman in the area ran a campaign that was just on general fiscal conservatism and like , hey , we're going to try to not let them tax the hell out of you for the rest of your life and what do you think about that ? Like , I think you could get some city councilors elected .

You could make some real local progress , but a lot of people will spend all their time obsessively talking online about federal politics and never do anything locally . Yeah , and I that's what I'm talking about .

But what you could do is you can start a family , you can make sure that you go to a base Christian church and you can make sure that you homeschool or private Christian school your kids , as would be the situation here . If you do that , you have kids .

So you get married , find a godly wife , you get married , you have kids and you have Christian worship , great Christian worship . With Christian education you have already defeated , like , the foundational bulwarks of Satan in culture and the way that culture is shaped and worked upon . So it's like that's actually in reach for people .

Kevin Torbo , hercules , the actor who played Hercules , super bass guy . I asked him the same question How's one way that men and Christians can win right now ? And he's like stop sending them to public school . It's so obvious , just stop doing it . It's just so obvious .

And he even said he's like stop being lazy and using the public education system as a babysitting platform .

Do you need to start the business and stop thinking about like that loser mentality of the ? Well , what about daycare and all this other stuff ? Like I know it's hard , but just go start the business , go do the next hard thing .

And if you do those things consistently over time , then in your sphere of influence you will have fruitfulness and that sphere will grow in its influence over time . It's not going to be five minutes .

The thing that's unique about Ogden is , although you look at the real estate prices and you're like this is insane , the cost of living here is really high . There's a reason for that . It's because it's economically advantageous to live here . The economic opportunity is massive in this area .

I guarantee you give this community and the Lord at work in this community , the generation we're in the midst , that first generation work and let's see if we can't chisel out a pretty strong foothold here in that generation and then the next one , and then the next one .

We're trying to get together a good system of welcome and like talking to all of you guys because I know a lot of you guys emailed us about it or reached out helping some of our mature men in the church get involved in like talking to some of these folks , welcoming them , in helping them understand what are the business opportunities .

So I know we're this isn't just a big sales pitch for moving to Ogden , this whole episode , but it really is . Like this is a huge part of what we're talking about is , again , as a father , as a husband , your responsibility is to see to the fruitfulness and flourishing of your home and your people . Are you in a place that can happen ?

You also have a private school , which is one of the great benefits of a private school over homeschooling is that having more children as a father , having more kids isn't a massive burden on your wife and you . Homeschooling it really does help . It's a huge help to free you up to .

The reason that I brought that up is because if you're looking around and you're like man , my kids are in public school or you know we're homeschooling and it's man , I don't know if it's going that well and there's not a community to really support you and your church is really not great and there's not a lot of options . I mean , consider relocation .

I've seen a lot of families , brian , get into this state where they're like I'm going to have as many kids as I can , no matter what . It puts a lot of strain on wives whose bodies cannot keep up with the pace , sometimes husband's jobs that cannot keep up with the pace . I've seen a lot of wreckage .

I've seen a lot of people like apostasize and leave the faith because they were basically told you need to have as many children as you humanly , physically , possibly can , and it breaks families . It breaks men and women . So I think one of the things that I would want to say is we are not quiverful . I'm not advocating that .

I'm sympathetic to families who are . One of the things that we've talked about is Phil Kaiser's book Conception Control . If people are interested in jumping into this issue , that's a pretty helpful diagnosis of this overall situation . Brian , I just want you to speak to that . Why are we not quiverful ? Why is that not what we're saying ?

And one of the big through lines that you see in God's instruction to men in particular , and to the man and woman together , is to bring order and to rule well and to be the kind of man who is a good Lord and husband man . They're stewards .

They're stewards of the things that God has given them , and when you're stewarding things like crop fields , you have crop rotation and you lay fallow for a time and God builds these in to the rhythm of Israel . They're not just natural , it's not just the natural order period , it's the natural order with the dominion of man bringing to flower the creation .

So a principle of Sabbath In ordered . There's an ordered rule that man is to bring , and so where we go off course is where we rule in our own name and in wickedness . We take wicked dominion through wicked practices and bring death .

But that doesn't mean necessarily that , for example , in marriage , that there is no ordering or no dominion taking whatsoever over fertility . There is such thing as planning and , I think , taking care of your wife . Where our attitude is . I'm trying to give my wife after having a child , because we're pretty fertile . Just the Lord's made us pretty fertile .

We have kids Praise God pretty easily . I know some people have them even easier where it's like it's easy for them to get pregnant three months after birth and that some people have that and we're not quite there . But we have so far generally gotten pregnant and had children pretty easily .

But our goal is I want to give my wife a good period of physical recovery . I want to treat the period after birth , that fourth trimester as people call it today Also , you see , in the biblical practices of uncleanness these built in rhythms of rest and around a woman's fertility and childbearing cycle . That was a good thing .

It was an expression of ruling and ordering there where she had rest . So I want to do all of that to make sure that my wife is physically able to go into pregnancy with strength , in so far as it's up to me .

And yet we always say and this is a conversation where I'm coaching my wife when she's looking at it and it's daunting and it's like we have six kids and she's not quite 32 . We could have kids for another 10 years and there are times when she might look at that and feel anxiety .

And those are the times when I have to proactively go in and say honey , you can trust me , I'm going to do you good , I'm going to take care of you . The Lord is good , even if we have a baby outside of our planning . That baby is a gift and we're not allowed to fuss . We're going to praise the Lord for that baby .

Okay , that doesn't mean we're not doing different things to try and manage or plan our crops , if that makes sense . We have very hard lines about things that we will not do to avoid that . We will not . Obviously , abstinence is out of the question for multiple reasons , biblical ones , for sure . That's 100% . That's why Not ?

Because I like my wife and I'm into her . But you know what I'm saying . Whoa this is not Breithardt , this isn't .

It becomes black and white . I'm going to anathematize people over this .

I'm not saying it's all his fault , but he should be proactively in these conversations . He takes ownership .

Yeah , saying honey , you can trust me financially , I'm going to be able to provide for the birth and for these children and I'm going to work hard , I'm going to make more money , I'm going to do this thing and you can trust me , you can hitch your wagon to mine and we're going to get to Green Pastors . She needs to be able to trust you there .

Even that saying and you know what , the Lord could give us lean times , the Lord could give us job loss . I could get hurt , of course , but we trust the Lord and when we have and when we have not , we trust the Lord . So he needs to lead , he needs to go in and her heart needs to be able to trust in him and these things .

In that sense , I do see room for some kind of management or dominion taking in the fertility process . What's funny is this is really funny to me , because a lot of the Roman Catholic world absolutely against everything in terms of any kind of like .

They talk about using the rhythm method , but even natural family planning in some of these circles they would say even natural family planning is sinful .

So you couldn't have sex on the Lord's Day , you couldn't have sex on these feast days , and it ended up being pretty onerous .

It would be stripped down to some months less than 50% of the month that you could lawfully actually go to the marriage bed , so… Well , that's what I think .

Yes , so you read Augustine on this or you read the church fathers on this issue and you'll find a lot of sexual asceticism that is actually contra-scriptural where they would consider many times you'll find church fathers considering marital sex sinful , in many cases Unclean , at least Unclean , or it's non-optimal .

There was a huge debate in the early church about whether or not Adam and Eve would have had sex in the garden at all without the fall , and I'm like I think , first of all , I think it's a dumb question .

It shows us like one of the reasons I'm Protestant is because I don't believe that the church fathers are Infallible , infallible or that church tradition is infallible . It all must be subject to the test of the scriptures .

This is an area where I think the Protestant theology of sex and marriage and family , as it developed particularly and threw off some of these unbiblical ascetical strains , recovered a scriptural view of sex and fertility and marriage .

But what can happen with any recovery like you said about the quiverful is that you can actually swerve all the way to the other ditch , and so we don't want to swerve into any ditch . We want to believe the scriptures and we don't want to invent new sins that God doesn't say are sins , and we also don't want to sin in the real sins .

So here I do see , I think this is an area where , you know , in our church I think we even have some folks that are much more on the quiverful side of things , and this isn't an area where we're like , oh , we're going to put someone on a church discipline for having a different conscience in regard to the natural .

This sits squarely in the domain of the family government , provided nobody is sinning against somebody else .

Home birth versus hospital birth , medicated , unmedicated these are all issues where people can have different conscience and discuss it , but not enforce their conscience on another , because we don't believe that . We believe these are disputable matters . It's not disputable things like IVF , hormonal , abortifacent birth control , abortion . Obviously those are not .

Marital abstinence . These are issues that are not debatable . Full sterilization I think maybe you mentioned that . A full sterilization , yeah , like I think that there . There there's some issues where it's like talk to your pastor , tell us what's going on because health and medical things .

There's multiple reasons why , you know , for example , a woman might end up being sterile as a result of another medical thing that's corrected surgically . I mean , there's all sorts of talk to a wise counselor .

So a lot of times people will be like they think they're insulting me by calling like what we're espousing the Duggers , and I'm like I have a lot more in common with the Duggers than a pagan witch with pink hair who has a hysterectomy at 20 .

And so , just keeping that in mind , as Christians like the people you might be tempted to fight the most with over this issue are probably closest to you .

We can have different conscience on these issues , on the application of the principles , and let's team up and be like but , but we can all agree that , like IVF and a lot of these issues that are mainstream in the church , like let's knock those idols down , guys .

Why do we think that that is not Something that Christians are should participate in ? First of all , I can empathize or sympathize with those that cannot have kids , that the Lord has not opened their womb . Yeah , I am sorry . Like that is , it sucks . It is very , very hard , very sad , and I've walked through this with other families .

We haven't Struggle with this ourselves , so but I've seen the pain and devastation that it can cause and I could see why one would want to do IVF . You want to have your own kids , right ?

And so it seems like a simple procedure harvest some eggs , harvest some sperm , mix it into testum and , just you know , put it in in the lady and that's , that's fine , right ? Well , there's a few problems with that . First , they're fertilizing eggs outside of the woman's womb , and so you are making babies in a lab and I think , what ?

What this really is , is you actually you're subverting God in his created order and his desires For how life is Created . You are making yourself God in a sense . This facility is now housing children . They're fertilized babies . Even if they're frozen , they are your children .

You are trusting that there's not going to be a power outage or a fire or from some Catastrophic event where all of your children are now dead . Okay , that's the first thing . So you , you go to the fertilization clinic . They fertilize the eggs . You now have babies . You drive away .

You guys die in a car accident , like you've just functionally abandoned a whole bunch of children . The other thing is that you should not trust those people . This is the same industry that thinks it's that an abortion is birth control , it so . So why would you trust these people ? Let me ask you to watch your kids ?

They've had instances where this is clearly not in the case clearly not the case , and so they might do as many as 12 or more . And they tell you yet We've got three . And then you have a bunch of children that are you , or babies , your children , that you've now functionally abandoned at the clinic , and who knows what happens to them ?

They destroy them , they go into the freezer and then they're adopted out .

like there's a good chance that maybe 30% of them are gonna get through . We'll catch money on the other side and take our baby home , but the other 65% are gonna be cut up into pieces by the fan and killed . You would never do that . No , it's because you're looking at a grown baby . You would never do that . I'm sorry , guys .

Embryos , preborn children , are just another stage of human development . Toddler , teenager , embryo it's just stages of human development . We should not be comfortable as Christians Taking these technologies into our own hands in ways that is dehumanizing and murderous .

Are you going to have those children ? We ? You need to write your wrong .

But there's also a lot of people and I would put myself in this camp We've all , to some extent , we have regrets , right , things that we weren't taught or the things that we were taught in the church that we're bad , and so I think , as as fathers in the church , you have a responsibility to say to the generation coming up hey , I don't actually want you to

repeat all my mistakes .

You know , sperm couts have been cut in half to Sassar and is dropping fertility and women is dropping because of chemical birth control , hormonal imbalances , many environmental aspects and influences . Yeah , and so even people that want to have kids can't have kids .

A lot of these women have said yeah , I was just thinking like later on , when I'm really affluent , you know , I'll do the freeze eggs implant thing . And then they're like it's like you know , ivf is like 10 to 14 grand a pop , mm-hmm , and they realize they can't afford it . Well , this whole thing was a lie .

So I , when you get to that stage in your life where you're like I can't reverse where we are now , I can't reverse the decisions we've made . People do not understand the deep , deep regret that you will have , and so I think that's part of the older generation to say like , hey , we want to help you make the right decision from the beginning .

Yeah , it's not because we hate you , it's because we love we love you and we don't want you to feel that guilt and shame , yeah , that many older generations have .

Brian , I want you to wrap this episode in a beautiful little bow , as you're so want to do all the time Wnt want and just kind of make the case for Fathers being fertile , wind us down , close it up and Inspire us with no end . Yeah and they're both now they turn and look at me .

I love it , but one of the things we seriously do want to do , if you are interested in these issues , especially on fertility , if you want some Sexual tension , electric energy whatever it was called , Go to Bright Earth seriously great episodes on fertility between you and your wife .

These are tough questions that many people in the church are not willing to have . But , brian , you guys have done a lot of heavy lifting and work on that , so I would definitely commend that to our listeners .

She's like well , pregnancy is hard , the curse landed right in her lap in Childbearing . So men do need to be in a lead well and love well and call their wife to feminine courage and Also provide for her the masculine safety that she needs to do well , so I would .

I would tie a knot on it by saying fundamentally that what we're saying in this episode is that , christian men , you must reject the culture of death that is being peddled to you , that the church is being discipled into perniciously by the enemy and by sinful men , and you must reject it . It's going to be hard .

You're going to fight against the current , and one of the key areas where this must happen is in marriage and in the marriage bed . Men must encourage their families and and , insofar as the Lord provides , lead their families into fruitfulness , for their joy and for the glory of God and for the world .

Go have babies , disciple them , raise them well , provide for your wife well , but don't don't be cowardly , don't shrink back from this out of selfish desire for comfort . Give yourself away . Your strength was made to be poured out for the good of your people and for the Lord .

So give your strength away , go and have children , take leadership in your home , particularly in areas where , particularly in areas where your wife maybe has been discipled into worldly thinking . Begin the conversations , be gentle , be patient .

Don't bludgeon her down or try to convince her all in five in one five minute conversation , but do take the lead in these conversations and make sure that you are seeing to your generations for the glory of God .

And so you know , we pray that the Lord would bless you in this , that he would make you fruitful in every way , both in having children and seeing your children's children walking in faith in the Lord , and Be very blessed in doing so . So , festin alente , gentlemen , festin , alente , make haste slowly , and may the Lord bless you .

This has been another episode of the Kings Hall . We hope it blessed you and helped your family . If you love the Kings Hall , you want to support our work .

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