Fathers Help Their Children Marry Well

He later became the lead pastor in a Maryland megachurch and pastored there for nine years . Everything appeared to be going well for Mr Harris until he resigned in 2015 , citing a lack of theological education as the reason . He intended to attend Regent College in Vancouver , british Columbia , to receive theological instruction .

The following year , it appeared that his resignation for the purpose of theological education was not entirely genuine , as he later apologized to those who were hurt by the purity culture and approach he had taken in his book . The trajectory continued when , in July 2016 , in a social media post , he announced he was separating from his wife .

He said quote in recent years , some significant changes have taken place for both of us . It is with sincere love for one another and understanding of our unique story as a couple that we are moving forward with this decision . We hope to create a generous and supportive future for each other and for our three amazing children in the years ahead .

Thank you for your understanding and for respecting our privacy during these difficult times . Mr Harris eventually divorced his wife . A few days after announcing the divorce , he posted the following to social media my heart is full of gratitude . I wish you could see all the messages people sent me after the announcement of my divorce .

There are expressions of love , though they are saddened or even strongly disapproved of the decision . I am learning that no group has the market quartered on grace . This week , I've received grace from Christians , atheists , evangelicals , ex-vangelicals , straight people , lgbtq people and everyone in between .

Of course , he says there have also been strong words of rebuke from religious people . While not always pleasant , I know they are seeking to love me . There have also been spiteful , hateful comments that angered and hurt me . The information that was left out of our announcement is that I have undergone a massive shift in regard to my faith in Jesus .

The popular phrase for this is deconstruction . The biblical phrase is falling away . By all the measurements I have for defining a Christian , I am not a Christian . Many people tell me that there is a different way to practice faith and I want to remain open to this , but I'm not there now .

He goes on to say Martin Luther said that the entire life of believers should be repentance . There is beauty in that sediment , regardless of your view of God .

I lived in repentance for the past several years , repenting of my self-righteousness , my fear-based approach to life , the teaching of my books , my views of women in the church and my approach to parenting , to name a few . But I specifically want to add this to the list .

Now to the LGBTQ plus community , I want to say I am very sorry for the views that I taught in my books and as a pastor regarding sexuality . I regret standing against marriage equality , for not affirming you and your place in the church and for any ways that my writing and speaking contributed to a culture of exclusion and bigotry .

I hope you can forgive me" . Joshua Harris Goodreads' author profile best describes his worth as a man of God , as it reads . Joshua Harris lived outside Washington DC , in Gaithersburg , maryland , where he was a pastor of Covenant Life Church . His greatest passion was preaching the gospel and calling his generation to wholehearted devotion to God .

He since apostatized , divorced and became an LGBTQ plus advocate . One question we all should ask is this what about his wife Shannon ?

She must have assumed she was marrying an evangelical wonder boy , a man who is a pastor , a man who is under the leadership of renowned Christian leaders like CJ Mahaney and Louis Giglio , a man who is passionate about preaching the gospel , and not a worthless man that would abandon his wife and promote homosexuality .

How do we protect our daughters from marrying men like Joshua Harris ? How do we guide our sons to find women whose worth is more precious than jewels ? The Kings Hall Podcast exists to make self-ruled men who rule well and win the world .

Yeah , we can do whatever we want . We're coming to the end of season two here on fatherhood and we've got some really great stuff cooking for season three . I'm really excited for it .

It's actually going to be a big change of pace from what we've done here in season two but also , I think , really connect with some of the things that have made our show from the beginning .

I'm sure Dan has thought as well , and as we've worked on pastoring and shaping this community here in Ogden , it's one of the big things on our mind and that is marriage , the next generation . Basically , how can we as fathers help our children to marry well ?

How can we help our sons and our daughters to marry well , or at least to put them in a position ? Obviously , we can't do anything for our children . They have to make their own decisions at some level as they come into judicial maturity and they come into this decision making time of their life . But there are some ways .

We believe that fathers have responsibility , and strong responsibility , to make it easier for their children to marry well and avoid marrying fools .

I think this is one of the most important issues that , as a father , you can think through , because you know just we've all probably seen this in our own families just how devastating it can be for somebody to marry a fool .

He was a go-getter , he was lively , he was funny , you know vivacious sort of guy , and he ended up marrying someone that was , I guess , a stick in the mud , as you can say . His life took a different trajectory , yeah , and it's really sad .

We've all seen that time and time again , and in the other direction as well , where a man marries a wife and thinks everything's going to be great and then the next thing he knows she's divorcing him , taking his kids , putting him on the alamone . What is it Alamone ? Is that what it's called ?

I met a guy at County before country Michael Fosters conference in Ohio a few weeks ago and he had something like seven daughters and I and some of them were coming into that like late teen years and I was just thinking , wow , good for you . Like , first of all , amazing , praise God , what a blessing .

And then I thought , wow , you have to find seven worthy men for these daughters to marry them . This is terrifying . Terrifying when I think of the state of young people in America .

That's really important in this conversation , and that's on principles versus methods , cause I think a lot of what people tend to do in this conversation is and particularly people that don't have experience in it , that haven't , like , actually gone through the process yet , or maybe they had a really bad experiences in their upbringing and they're just reacting completely

the other way and they sort of come up with some method of dating and courtship and marriage . It's usually courtship and a model of how the father's to be involved , how the whole handing off process of authority is supposed to work .

I mean , maybe valid , it may be valid . Do you see that there's principles versus methods issue and how do you think that plays in dating versus courtship ? I mean , with Joshua Harris's book there at the beginning obviously sort of set a big movement towards this one method being like the be all , end all . What are your thoughts on that ?

And so when you approach pretty much any human institution this way , with a government of some sort , saying the government itself , the system itself will protect us , not realizing that you could have the most robust Presbyterian system , the most robust congregationalist system in a church , and if you put wicked men in leadership , guess what ?

You've got a wicked government and it will be horrible , like it will go very badly for you . And so people definitely do approach the dating courtship scene in this way .

I haven't had as much direct experience with this because in the culture I grew up in was more like encouraging I guess that's part of the I Kiss Dating Goodbye , but encouraging singleness , like wait until you're wise , wait until you're called and wait until you're mature before you pursue a wife .

I got married in my late 20s and I really wish that I had been prepared earlier to be married . Personal regrets , but that seems to be a theme amongst people of my time and I'm sure , in your generation as well . We're the same generation . We're both millennials .

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You know , if you're a younger single person and you have a foolish father , you would probably not , or a foolish mother , you would not want them involved to the degree of a person who has a wise father or a wise mother whose judgment you trust . That government of protection is going to be a much more advantageous government .

It's going to be much more beneficial to you , and so you have to have the principles in place before you start implementing a lot of the methods .

only possible way of doing things . You know , especially if you're in a different , like when we're talking about marrying our children or seeing our children married . Well , we're going to face lots of circumstances , but one of the circumstances that's going to be the most common is an immature Christian culture .

So a lot of the courtship as a model and we'll build this out a little bit a lot of the courtship model really depends upon at least some semblance of a mature Christian community that is with you .

They will be apart from the community , and so that protection of community , whether mature or immature , within your local context , for a father it's not going to happen . And so a lot of those methods would just not work .

Let's say , identify another Christian family that has an eligible single woman , a daughter somewhere that he would like his son to get to know . And hey , son , are you interested in Mary Jo over there ? And you know , yeah , absolutely . When we were at homeschool co-op she was doing that a square dance and it was captivating .

The other dad asks Mary , was it Mary Jo that I said ?

There's protection for the daughter , because her father can be the first line of defense where maybe she has no interest in Joe . Yeah , she's like , I don't like him for whatever , and that's fair . She's allowed to not like him . She might tell her dad you know what , I'm not interested .

The dad can let the other dad know , or they can let him down easy , whether directly or through the parents . So you have parental involvement .

So then the fathers or the parents get involved and they set up some chaperoned talks , you know , you think Little House on the Prairie , when the who is it ? Laura is courted by what's his name ?

And then there's an overseen period of engagement ending in a marriage and there's a handoff of authority where a daughter who's submitting to her father is now given away on her wedding day to submit to her new husband .

It's just very difficult For most people to find a family with wise Christian parents who are also on the same page there , and the other thing is that even then , that's not a guarantee .

No , god didn't give all of these parameters in terms of finding a spouse so that you could say well that any other method is necessarily an intrinsically sinful .

Maybe maybe they have , like , a really healthy marriage , but one of the parents on that side is actually worthless . Like would you want to court a godly woman who has a foolish father ? Like would you want him overseeing that ? Right In that , to that degree , yeah , or he's an unbeliever and she's a believer .

It's very common in our culture where the father's like the daughter doesn't care , the son doesn't care about dad , he's not involved in this at all .

But there is an edge to the authority and some of these courtship models actually also worked well in contexts where you not only had a mature Christian community in terms of other families , but you had a mature civil polity and ecclesial polity in the community .

Because you run into issues sometimes where maybe two eligible Christians have decided that they've maybe they've courted for a time or whatever they think that we want to get married and the man asked for permission . Father says no and let's say he asks okay , why not ? I'd love to . Are there some standards I'm not meeting ? And is humble .

Well , you know , son , you just I don't want my daughter marrying someone in the trades , I want her to marry a white collar guy . Is that a reasonable reason to forbid marriage ? And you find that sometimes church courts and even civil courts needed to step in . Historically .

Historically , yeah , in Calvin's Geneva you could sue , a couple could take a father to court who refused permission spuriously .

So In a setting where you probably don't have that possibility right where a son , a young man maybe he's in 10 upon marrying a young woman and they have genuinely met all the biblical requirements for getting married , he's able to provide their chase . They're both Christians , are not an equally yoked .

There's no reason why they shouldn't be able to pursue marriage . And and one father just obstinately , for some reason , says no , I don't like your face . Whatever , it is Right . Well , there needs to be another authoritative structure that can step in and adjudicate that case , and in many situations that doesn't exist . And so we do need to .

We do need to make sure that we don't end up saying which a lot of courtship , like on the brutes on the ground , a lot of the courtship model contend towards actually ending up believing that the father has absolute authority , that no other authority can step in and say you're being unreasonable , you're being unbiblical , You're requiring that which God does not

require . You need to give your blood , your permission to this marriage .

Yeah , by the way , that that I imagine produces some , some marriages that are probably set up in the best terms .

She didn't want to marry that person and there was a lot of strong pressure and now you really end up robbing everybody because now you have a man say that's married to a wife that didn't really want to marry him .

She was just pressured and didn't know how to assert , you know , any kind of preference , and now she's just married and there's a covenant there and they they must be true to it , but that it might not have been a wise match because you need you actually do need like desire and Respect and love at the center of a marriage .

For it to be a joyful Christian marriage , there needs to be desire . So I think there are some ditches when we get to the talk . If we elevate the courtship model to the Level of a commandment , we err . On the other side we have the dating model , which is you big with us in our culture .

People go out , they grow into adulthood , sometimes not even you know 14 , 15 , 16 , I mean I can attest .

There might be permission asked , there might not from a father , but it's basically go out , find a person you want to get married , go on some dates , figure out if you want to marry him , and again , there's no reason why a dating model needs to involve sin . You could still get permission from a father on or as authority .

All these things I think it's important for us in this Initial part of the conversation , when you're thinking about marrying off your children , dating versus courtship , all these things what are some principles that that are going to be true , regardless of the method that's used to find the spouse ? At the end of the day , what are some principles non-negotiables ?

I'll give you an example and then I'd love your , your thoughts tan . So one example , and I'm gonna give the most obvious your children must marry Christians . That's a principle . We're not going to be unequal .

Yo , there's a command there , and so my children , and I think there's also sub tiers to that , where it's like I am a reformed Presbyterian , you know Christian man , and my daughter's reformed Presbyterian . So it would probably be unwise for her to marry an extraordinarily charismatic Pentecostal young man who handles snakes regularly .

Yes , wise counsel is needed , because everybody knows , having been in a relationship before especially guys with a woman and I'm sure I've never been a female .

I don't know what females think , but they seem to be smitten with men at certain points in their lives yeah , and when you start using , you know , attractions and Emotions to make your decisions yeah , quite often I don't know , you don't tend to make the best choices you might end up let away by your Heart flutters by your heart flutters , that's a nice way to

put it , yeah , yeah , so it is important , if you don't have a wise father , to have a pastor , yeah , or somebody that has Accountability and ownership now in your relationship , yes , so that that person with an uninterested third party as far as , like you know , the the heart flutters , as you call it yeah can judge with wise judgment to make sure that neither

one of you are actually making a grave error . I mean a lot of that goes into , like premarital counseling . Maybe maybe you don't realize this , but well , you realize this , brian , but , dear listener , you might not realize this a Most . I would say premarital counseling is not even necessarily a benefit to future husband and wife .

Some of it is that , but a lot of it is going to be the pastor vetting one another , yeah , to see if you guys are actually a good match .

That's a good example of a great principle there should be . You're not just doing this by yourself out floating . You need Christian community . There's wisdom in a multitude of counselors . I think another principle that's related to this is that your , whatever method you use , it must honor the structures of authority that God has established in the world .

So that means the father and the mother need to be involved and and with the asterisk that that must . That principle must be applied with wisdom . If the father is a crackhead , idiot who has made a wreck of his life , you shouldn't , you would be a fool to take his counsel . You need to actively actually disregard his counsel .

So this doesn't mean that that you know non-Christian or apostate or you know actively in sin father who refuses to submit to church , to any other authorities , to church authority , that he has some kind of absolute Authority on the level of God . No , all human authorities , all all lesser authorities below the authority of God are Contingent .

So they all , they all , are subject to authorities outside of themselves .

I mean , we've all done something , relationship or otherwise , maybe investing or or something else , to where you're like man , I hope nobody finds out . I'm about to do this because Be kind of shameful .

I think another good Principle would be that whether you date or court or you're , you're encouraging your children to do one or the other is that you need to make allowances for the sheer power of God's creative design for sexuality , meaning that you have to understand that a man was designed to To desire a woman sexually and a woman was designed to desire the

man sexually and they're designed to want . That's a good thing . And there's a category where Paul says if you burn , it would be better to be married than to burn with lust . He's acknowledging that there's a category where that good thing is very powerfully good , but it also has a lot of gravity .

And so Teaching your children this you know , as you date or court , if you're maybe at that age yourself and listening to this podcast you need to give yourself in a moment of sobriety . You need to be honest about how powerful that temptation will be to go in sin or to make a wreck of things with Premarital .

You know , sexual activity and contact or whatever it is crossing lines , and so fathers need to be Honest with their children about that and they need to be establishing walls for the son and the daughter and for the you know court , the potential spouse , future spouse or whatever it is , the boyfriend , the Girlfriend , whatever you call it in your model .

The father needs to be involved in the level that he is actively checking in , guarding , saying son now , like , let's be honest here , that you're dating a beautiful young woman and you want to be married , don't screw it up . Here's how you might screw it up . You're gonna be tempted to screw it up like this . Don't do it . Let me help you .

So there's a principle in there . I don't know how to put it to singfully that was like five minutes , but you know where you're . You're recognizing this purity culture . This is purity culture , my guy . Well , no you know , it's . Song of Solomon 8 is what it is . Song of Solomon 8 . We see it versus 8 and 9 .

We see this a little vignette in the poetry where it's like if our sister is a wall , then we will adorn her with silver or something like that and we'll build her up . If she's a door , then we will encircle round , you know , like bait , then we'll make her a wall .

And the point is that the woman is it's a reflective moment in the poem like Looking back on her life before the suitor comes in blah , blah , blah . So she's saying you know I . She ends up saying I recognize I was a wall and that . But the brothers are involved here , like there's family involved and they are .

They are Charged with knowing the , in this case the daughter . They're sister , their younger sister , I'm assuming and knowing , like , okay , is she a wall ? Like , if she's a wall , that means that she's guarded , she's protected , she's not just opening up to any passing Tom , dick or Harry , right , she's not Dan , she's , she's not , you know , promiscuous or loose .

She understands the , the glory of her sexuality , chaseness , she's in the power of chase , of chastity , and so in that case , build her up . We had , we adorn her , we make her even more glorious , right ? But if she's a door , if she's like boys , oh yeah , no , no , don't do that . Come on , you know what I'm saying .

The principle is that we guard that which is valuable so that it can be properly given , not thrown out into the streets .

That is just a data point to be aware of . And so if your daughter is pursuing a godly young man by all appearances and his father is a crackhead and his mother is in prison , that is an important data point to be aware of .

And so I mean , like I said , I don't think that's a principle , but there are going to be certain struggles that are unique to that man .

That might not be the case , and in the ideal situation , which would be a young godly man who's been raised by godly parents , who have been members in the church their whole life , who are Christians , multi-generational , like that , would be ideal .

We don't live in an ideal world and God redeems sinners and cleanses them from your sin and makes them new creations . So I'm not saying discount a man like that that had less than ideal parentage , but that is something that you must be aware of .

To the degree that we can be involved , we can be asking these questions as well with another father or of the if I'm , obviously , I hope to be involved in any young man courting or wanting to date my daughter , so I would love to be able to sit them down , take them out , ask them some questions .

Knowing what questions to ask and what questions to note for your children to ask are big . Do you have any questions off the top ?

I would be asking those kind of sexual purity questions . I would be asking theological questions . Tell me , what kind of church do you go to ? Hopefully it's the same church , obviously , but in the ideal . But what kind of church do you go to ? How did you come to your theological convictions ?

Do you believe we should baptize , that Christians should baptize their children , that the infants of believing parents should be baptized ? Do you believe that women should be pastors ? I mean , like there's a whole range that , sexually , theologically . What kind of job do you have ? How much do you hope to earn ? How much have you saved up right now ?

Do you have any debt ? What are your plans for your career ? How many children do you want to have ? How do you think about educating children ? What is there a proper method and principles ?

The other is there are certain sins that men and women are more prone to fall into . Like you had mentioned , with a young man , you want to know about his sexual purity , and you would with a young woman , but in a different way . The sins that are , I guess , outside of the of sexual purity or sexual immorality . Let's move on to a different category .

One sin that a lot of men are going to be tempted to fall into and that's more of a character thing is to be worthless , to have a lack of ambition , to not be able to provide for your daughter . That would be one thing that I would want to know about his character in this interview , and you get to that with some of your questions about well .

The thing is , though , talk is cheap , right ? You can say , like what are your career plans ? Oh , I'm planning on being a musician and I'm going to make a big , and Brian Sove laughs and but I know how much they pay on Spotify . Fractions of a penny .

What might happen you have to be aware of is that they might have a like a coattail son or a little like scared mouse of a son who's had this really strong , overbearing dad who's involved in everything .

Son never makes any decisions for himself and so he's going to I'm going to get my boy married , okay , let's hear all the right answers , but he doesn't actually know anything and he has no experience and he's not strong and he like I'm not saying that's guaranteed in this , but you have to be aware of these ditches and , courtship or not , you need to be able

to know the person , that is , the potential spouse standing on their own two feet , not just as mommy and daddy think they are .

One of the ditches in the dating model is that you have a self-centered , ambitious man who is really good at attracting women , who is self-absorbed and is going to work entirely for his own glory and will still neglect the provision of his wife and his kids , and so there are ditches on both sides of that .

With women , one thing I think you have to look out for is that you don't want to also have a woman that lacks ambition , that is not a hard and diligent worker that will keep a house and is intelligent and is able to educate children and to be able to exercise wisdom and discernment in the discipline and raising of children .

I mean that's all really important . But I mean you probably have some thoughts about this as well , because you speak to this a lot in Breitharth .

But having a woman that is in a busy body , that has the virtue of chastity not just in her physical appearance and in her flirtatiousness but also in her speech , who practices modesty in her speech , I think that's an important one .

I don't know if you have any others that would be like big character things , like if you were to interview the father of a woman that your son is interested in .

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Do you know what nagging is ? You know how like does mom ever do this ?

Cause sometimes we they're at the age now where maybe there's a fight at the table and one of them's , you know , telling his sister like you're , you know you're ugly or you're whatever , and so , hey , does mama ever do that , does daddy ever do that ?

And we're trying to establish for them , hopefully in our actual persons , but a goal Like what is their Venus , what is the ideal woman , and then also teaching them to name the sins , like what is a naggy woman look like ? Do you want to marry a naggy woman ? Get the proverbs with them .

At the end of the day , you can coach them and see it yourself and say hey , you know , I know Susie's really beautiful and she's . You know . She flirts with you , she seems interested in you , but I just want you know , have you noticed how disrespectful she is to her dad and how often she initiates fights with you ? Right , think about that .

What do you think about that ?

So it's important to understand the times and where the battle lines are , to help identify a lot of the sins that are gonna be prominent . Yes , absolutely .

One of the things , obviously , that we're trying to train our sons to recognize , like we just said , is a godly woman . What does that look like ? One that they're attracted to , that they can know is a virtuous woman they can entrust to raise the children with and be faithful to .

So I'm telling my kids like okay , as they grow up , my sons need to learn , like they need to be protected from certain archetypal dangers in a woman . One of them would be like a hoe , to just put it straightforwardly , a harlot , if you wanted to Bible it up .

You know people get so mad when you say hoe on Twitter , but I'm like look , harlot , hoe , it's a denigrating word for a certain type of woman that the Bible is just unblushingly repeatedly says hey , whatever you do , son , don't go down her door , right ?

So I think one of the big things we're doing is we're teaching our sons to identify the sexually immoral woman , or the loose woman or the allure of the woman who is the loud woman ? She doesn't have a gentle and quiet spirit , but she does know what she has to lure , and it's her sexuality .

So that's one thing , as I'm thinking of raising my sons , that I'm protecting them . What are your thoughts ? Any other things you've got ?

You know , the thing I was most concerned about when I was dating is am I attracted to her , do I get along with her , is she a friend or whatever ? The you know the dumb measure I was using at the time was Can I see myself being with this person for a long time ?

It was all internal selfish navel gazing right and you just said well , son , if you're going to find a woman , that can you know , raise your children and be diligent in the house and all of that . Those are all things you have to have as an aim when you're looking for a wife .

So it becomes easier at that point of filtering mechanism , if you will , to identify some of these character deficiencies , like if she is a hoe , like well , obviously automatically kicks out because it doesn't meet your vision for what a wife needs to be in order to accomplish your mission here .

And so she has to be able to raise children , she has to be faithful and loyal , be willing to submit . She can't be naggy . She can't , you know , undermine her father's authority . She can't undermine your authority . She will teach your children to undermine your authority . They will not listen to you . They will rebel against you , you know .

So I think the aim is really really important . When you're filtering out spouses for your children , or if you're single , you know your future spouse , the aim is really important . What does a woman ? What boxes would a woman ? Not boxes ? What vision would you have for a wife ?

To take this woman to your bedroom , that's , as your wife Obviously duh . I want my sons to marry , you know , women they're attracted to , and but they need to make sure they have the full range .

Like you said , like a loose woman would not help you accomplish your mission , she flirts with everybody in the school she flirts with .

Well , it's like how I'm only , yeah , every young woman who was unmarried , I feel like early in the like our Calvary Chapel days , there were so many that would tell Lexi like oh man , I just how did you ? I really want to marry a worship leader . I want , like he's got to be a musician , he's gonna be really godly , he's got to have enough .

And Lexi was always like that's dumb .

It's like less than a percent of the population of a marriage .

To be asking your , let's say , your daughter is getting in some kind of , she's interested in getting to that age and she's interested in marrying a particular young man or something . Hey , what do you think about this ? What kind of job is he interested in ? Taking interest ?

Like a father , his most important role here is taking interest and initiative to being right there , helping his child clear away the emotional fog , or Twitter patient and ask good questions and be sober minded .

We just don't want strong women in the way that the culture thinks , strong women which are boss babes . We want strong , gentle and quiet women , right ? So he needs to be in all those levels and then he also needs to be just , I think , taking that initiative as she gets into those years .

Obviously I'm not quite into those years yet , but taking the initiative to be making sure that she understands that he is on her side , that he is her advocate , he has a shield and his goal is very good for her . I want you to be the you know . May you become the mother of 10,000s and your descendants possess the gates of your enemies .

He's very much for her and I think that helps win .

about it .

The implication is , if she likes a young man and you come in strong and you're the dad with the shotgun on his lap and you're making all those jokes and you're actually calling her an idiot Cause , you're saying look at this person you're clearly attracted to or interested in , what idiot would ? He's such a dope that what idiot would even be ?

You have to respect the young men too , as a father . Otherwise you're teaching her that all young men aren't respectable and that's a foolish thing to do . She'll ultimately be incentivized to hide things from you , not trust you and kind of be have distance . Well , no , we want to honor it . Yeah , hey , that looks like a respectable young man Like I'd love to .

I'd love to get to know him .

I know she nannies for that family or she's , you know , in school and she's in in in school she's , you know . She smiles a lot . She seems really happy and I think she's .

That's not helpful .

And so , especially fathers with younger kids , yeah , it's important to start building these conversations and these principles now , with the future in mind , because there will be a day , maybe , maybe your , your kids , will be a little bit like when they're teenagers . They're awkward , you know they're . Yeah , teenagers are super awkward .

They're awkward and they're going to get uncomfortable . You know , young man , you know your son , you're going to say hey , you know . You know , I noticed you talking to this girl . What are you guys talking about ? And he's going to get all weird and stuff like that . I mean .

I mean , so you have to build the rapport , you have to build the capital in the relational account before you start making withdrawals like that . And if you haven't done that , then you're going to have to make up for time and show them that you are interested in , in their best . You know you're , you want them to succeed .

I would say continue to try to show them that you have their best interests in mind , love them well and even just encourage them in their awkwardness a little bit and just ignore it . Don't take it personally , because I guarantee you if you do that , there will be a day where they will thank you for doing that yeah , absolutely .

Even if they don't seem to appreciate it in the moment .

So a lot of this this is the center of the discussion . I think we need to move on for time , but that's the center of the discussion in this whole process is . It's not don't put your trust in horses or chariots , don't put it in courtship model versus dating model . It's in the .

Get the principles right , read the situation you're in and win your children and aim to win them to a wise and glorious vision of a godly spouse , husband or wife . The last thing I wanted to talk about , though , in this episode , dan , was some of the well , where does this fruit grow ?

Kind of conversation , because a lot of people will find themselves in situations where there are no , or very few like-minded Christian families in their vicinity with any kind of marriageable age children for their children .

One of the things that I think we need to talk about is the role that location and community plays in this , and how people a lot of people listening are gonna have very young children and how they can be thinking now about setting their family up to have a good chance at high quality Christian spouses being even available to them at that time .

So what are some of the factors that ? First of all , do you agree that that's important part of this conversation ? And then , what kind of factors do you think play in and what kind of things do families need to be thinking through now in terms of where this fruit grows ?

Let's say you're in an area where you're somewhat isolated and there's not a lot of like-minded Christians around . So there might be marriageable aged children but they're not like-minded . That's a dangerous spot to be in because automatically through your filters that's gonna be problematic .

And the other problem is that your kids are still going to want to get married and the selection that you're giving them is generally bad .

I think there are certain things that you can do in that situation . I wouldn't recommend leaving , necessarily . That could be an option , but there are other avenues that you can explore .

I know that there are a few families that we've talked to at different conferences , and that's one of the aims of the conferences is networking across the country and making connections with men that they trust and then mining their congregations for high quality families and spouses for their kids , and I think that networking can be really powerful .

With that , now courting or dating or whatever becomes really challenging because it's now at a distance and so that's obviously a less than ideal situation , but it is difficult to recommend like , oh , you should definitely move then if you're at a good church in a region , I don't know what you would think about that situation .

Lexi and I have talked a lot about this is that we would like to identify now strategic relationships with families and churches and communities that will be fruitful for our family long-term , up to and including for marriage connections .

And we do that even though I think we have a great community here and there's a lot of kids that are our kids age and they're gonna grow up in the school . It's gonna be like , lord willing , you'll be wonderful , but we try to keep and maintain and build new relationships in these places with that in mind .

So , if you're in a less than ideal situation as a father , take initiative to try and help Identify the communities where they're like minded and you can inquire Are there ? Go ask a pastor .

Is there anybody in your church that's this age range that is looking for marriage that you , as a pastor , would recommend For some kind of courtship or anything like that ? That sounds really weird . It's not really weird at all , it's not . It's historically normal . Actually , it's really wise . Yeah , it's just you being .

Take initiative as a father and don't put it all . Don't be like yeah , daughter , here , go to college , have fun . Man , do you know what happens to women in the colleges ? They just are mattresses , a lot of them Like it's horrible . They just become passed around , manipulated by guys who are really good at picking up women and you're not there .

Take initiative like go out and try to find those communities , go to the conferences , do the thing , and a lot of it's the value of these sort of events are actually around the people ? They're not . I don't really care a lot Most of the time about 90% of the talks at a conference . I wanna know who's there .

And then the last scenario would be if you're in an area that doesn't have like-minded Christians and there are no prospects whatsoever , that's a dangerous spot for your family to be in Very risky Period , not just for marriage but for all of life .

I mean , he's working with Joel Salton and he's involved in this , really in a productive Christian household stuff . Great , wise guy . You should definitely follow him . But he'll say to most people don't go buy land way out in the rural Boonies . Especially if you have young kids , don't do it , because who are they going to marry ? Who are they gonna be around ?

Who's gonna be your church family ? People are one of the most important resource for you to tap into economically , vocationally , relationally , ecclesially . In all of these different facets of life , people are the thing . So I'm not saying if you're rural that you're dumb or something like that , but you're gonna have obstacles to overcome . So don't , I would argue .

I would urge you not to put yourself in that situation out of a fantasy of the glory of the remote farm life unless you have very compelling social supports in the region you're looking at . That you can be confident in , because it's gonna be tough for your kids and I would , honestly , I would encourage people with young kids who are in these early years .

It seems far away , guys . It's not far away at all . It will be so quick before your kids are teens I mean my kids . I already have a 10 year old . I feel like I just started having kids , and so I would highly encourage people to consider relocating , if that's what it takes to find Christian community that's like-minded and culturally potent .

If you're like , oh , it's expensive , well , I'm not saying move to Aug necessarily or anything like that , but I'm saying think this through . This is one of the most important aspects of your fatherly duty is , to the best of your ability , within reason , providing a context where they're likely to be able to fulfill the normal vocations of human life .

Well , so any last thoughts here ? I know there's tons more we could say .

Remember that the Lord is forming his people not just over the five minute increments , but he's forming his people over generations . So make your generational progress that the Lord has put in front of you and then send your kids out downstream with faith in the Lord and trust that God will use them and grow them and push faith further downstream in history .

But thanks for listening . We'll catch you next time on the King's Hall .