Hi, Welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. I got an email from a listener and she wrote in this, Hi, Carol, you talk about the importance of finding a relationship, but I'm thirty six. I'm not sure that's of interest to me anymore. I sustain myself, I make myself happy. I can't see what anyone would be able to add to that. I'm not bitter or angry. I haven't had bad men in my history. I just don't see the importance of it. I wanted to have children,
but even that want has waned. What's so good about being with someone? Then I heard this interesting exchange between podcaster Jen Cohen and professor Scott Galloway. I'll play it and then discuss it.
If you are a woman who is capable and competent and can do all those things on your own, they don't want a man because the men out there are there's very few few that there are are going to be wanted by every single girl, so then they're going to go right. So it's like, what do you do? And that's basically what's happening. I know more single, great girls than I've ever had in my life. And very few eligible great guys, very few. And the guys I know who I'm friends with, they have the pick of
the litter. They can go out with girls who are like literally more than half their age, and those girls are like buying for them and dying to go out with them.
So we have.
But both parties are blame. Okay, men young men for a variety of reasons, some societal some is on them. Are economically and emotionally unviable. They're less mature, they literally mature. The prefrontal cortex matures are the soler rate. They're not going to college. They're in there. They've been told by the wealthiest, deepest pocketed companies in the world. They can have a reasonable facsimile of life online with an algorithm. Why go out and make the effort to get friends
when you can go on discord a reddit. Why get a job when you can make money trading crypto on coinbase or stocks on Robinhood. Why go through the effort and the rejection and the humiliation and establishing the skills and getting your mom or your gay friend address you working out, taking the risk, going to a place, putting up the bullshit in the rejection, of finding a romantic or sexual partner when you just have YouPorn and so you have an entire code of men who have sequestered
from society. They don't get those skills. They go down a rabbit hole and they become almost sort of just non viable mates.
Now, they don't include the age of these people in the clip, but if the guys who refers to or dating girls more than half their age, I have to assume they're at least forty hopefully. So like my letter writer, these people are set in their ways and wondering what the point of being with someone is. I don't have
a great answer for that. I can tell you that it's a different level of happiness being cared for by someone and caring for them rather than not having that and all that warmth that comes with it, the family life, the security. It's all very good. And of course falling in love is amazing and magical. And you know, the woman who wrote in didn't say whether that's ever happened her before. But if it hasn't, it still could it
should You should try to find it. But if you've reached a stage in your life where you think relationships just aren't for you anymore. Fine. What I would say to these people is make sure you're not just using a defense mechanism to try to make excuses for why you haven't met someone. It's okay to not have met someone. There's a lot of luck involved. Like I always say, don't take your ball and go home. If you really are happy, great, But I don't even think the men
in that clip are happy. If there's a tiny part of you that thinks maybe you're not happy, don't give up on the idea of meeting someone, and don't assume that there was no one out there for you. Thanks for listening. I love getting your emails. I love all your questions. I'm going to do a few episodes on family issues in the next few weeks because I've gotten several emails about that. If you want something answered, email
me at Carol Markowitz Show at gmail dot com. Or I post a form occasionally on x where you can email me anonymously. I think people seem to like that, so if you catch that form, send in your questions there or Carol Markowitz Show at gmail dot com. Coming up next and interview with Tommy Schultz. Join us after the break.
Welcome back, to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My guest today is Tommy Schultz. Tommy is CEO of American Federation for Children. Hi, Tommy, so nice to have you on.
Hey, thank you for having me Carol.
So, did you always want to be the CEO of the American Federation for Children? How did you get into that?
Well, that's a funny question.
I didn't always know, because I didn't know the American Federation for Children existed untill probably about ten years ago.
It's an interesting story.
I was, you know, initially, I went to college wanting to be a doctor. I had this sort of high minded notion that I wanted to help people. Long story short, that we could maybe get into later. I felt that wasn't the right path for me. A lot of challenges sort of did fall in love with this notion of fixing some of these societal problems or things that I felt were hindering our ability to be a great country. There were a few moments in college that really kind
of woke me up to that. And along that journey I was working in politics, and then in between one of the political campaign cycles, I had heard that this group, the American Federation for children was really great. They were looking for somebody on the team, and the timing was right, the location was right.
I said, I'd love to join that.
And I only had this high minded notion around, you know, school choice, school vouchers. I think I had read the Builton Friedman essay from back in the nineteen fifty that he had written, But it was really this particular moment in time where I had suddenly started visiting schools, these incredibly high performing just jewels of schools that were at that time in Memphis, Tennessee, that were high performing but
with a high poverty kind of student body. And it was really crippling to know and understand that, like, gosh, if we didn't pass a school choice program, this school in particular was really benefiting from anonymous donors who had given some gifts that were essentially running out.
And you get to think.
About, how, my goodness, we have this education system that we've designed that is designed this way that basically you really need this golden ticket to get out and to get a good education, or you need to be really lucky and born into the quote right zip code to go to that quote good school. And so it was just this really personally humbling experience that I had that I said, oh my gosh, like, we have to fix this.
There is urgency because if we didn't pass that school choice program at that time I'm in Tennessee, those kids would be going to some of the worst schools in America just down the road, and you when you multiply that at scale across the entire country. I really had this almost spiritual awakening that I said, this is my life's mission, this is what I want to focus on. And so that led to me eventually kind of taking over the company a couple of years ago, and we've
had a lot of success since. And I know you've been following the school choice issues. Yeah, and you yourself had a lot of personal experiences with education, so you know how important it is, especially at the K through twelve. K through twelve level can be such a vector change for your kid's life. So that's how I again, I didn't know I wanted to do this, but I think God kind of smacked me over the head at some point in my life.
So you're going to go back and go to medical school or absolutely not.
I mean the story there was you know, I probably wasn't thinking too far ahead when I was jumping fully into this and didn't realize I mean, and especially at this time, they were, you know, Obamacare is being debated, and I talked to so many doctors at that point who said, physicians, you name it that were like, look the paperwork, the administrative burden it's getting. It's already bad enough,
and we're quite worried for what's down the road. I wasn't liking the you know, the chemistry and the hard sciences aspect at the college level with it, especially at Stanford.
So yeah, not going back to medical school, that's for sure.
I also actually was going to be a doctor, but that's only because my parents are from the Soviet Union. And you know, that's one of three careers you were to choose.
So lawyer, a doctor or something like that.
You got, you got two out of three. How'd you know? So what does the American Federation for Children focus on other than school choice? Or is it mostly a school choice organization?
We are a singleish organization at least kind of what the policies that we pass seek to give families the best opportunity to go send their child to the school
of their choice. So public private charter we're agnostic on that, but a real thing that is just needed in the marketplace and has been needed for the last forty years or more, is that we really do need a vibrant kind of diet yamic set of options within each kind of local community, and that charter schools took off in the nineties and then early two thousands had a lot of bipartisan support, but there were only kind of there was a slower, longer tail when it comes to know
the growth of voucher programs, you know, any kind of program or mechanism that allows a kid to go to a private school. And so our team had been focusing on that for quite a long time in various forms, and in the last ten twenty years we've really accelerated the pace of growth of voucher programs or ESA programs or tax credit scholarship programs. These are all different mechanisms that allow a student to go to a private school.
AFC is unique in that we do political elections at the state level, because that's how you change these laws at the state level. That creates a permanent change to the education system. Whereas you know, many of our founders, board members and many people who are especially in the last few years, getting into the world of education, they feel the only way to change things is to go to your local school board. And that is indeed an important factor in all this, but it doesn't do systemic
change right. You're making changes on the margins to certain kind of budgetary decisions or certain kind of curriculum decisions here and there. But when you're talking about systemic change, you have to change laws right at the state level in particular, because ninety percent of education and K through twelve at least in this country, it's really dictated by
the state level dynamics. And so when you pass these laws that allow families to go and take their funding to the school their choice, such a difference maker, and we've seen that in Florida in particular for the last twenty years.
You can go in depth about that.
But AFC would do the elections to help kind of change the makeup of the state legislature. We do the lobbying and advocacy during the legislative sessions, and then we also help families and role in these programs.
So those are the kind of three legs of the school How we do our work.
One of the biggest roadblocks to the kind of systemic changes you want to make.
Oh, that's usually a pretty easy one. The biggest roadblock really, it's the teachers' unions, their power, their money. You know, Carol, if you had AFC, we've raised about thirty three million dollars last year and deployed that across the country.
Carol, how much do you think the teachers unions brought in in.
Terms of their revenue four times that you were close? I mean they bring in about three billion dollars in revenues. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I was gotten by about, you know, more than one hundred times. It's that and people just don't understand the scale of what that means, right, because if they're deducting right out of every teacher's paycheck, right, hundreds of dollars, thousands of dollars a year, you multiply that not only to teachers. It's almost a misnomber to
call them the teachers unions. Schooling unions is probably the better term, because they'll take any employee that is part of the school system. And that's why you notice when they're fighting at the state legislatures and they're lobbying and putting so much money, they're always wanting more personnel, right, and they'll find any sort of personnel to do it. They'll say, you know, during COVID, we need more counselors, right,
And it's like, well, maybe let's discuss that. But then all of a sudden you realize, no, no, it's all about the dollars for them. It's every new employee is a new paycheck going into the conference of the unions. And so when you have this three billion dollar machine, I mean, I mean, I don't know what the final tally was for this year in the presidential elections, but for the last couple of decades, I mean, that's the amount of
money that was spent at a presidential campaign level. And they're doing that year over year at the school board level, at the state level, at the federal level. And so their influence on politics, particularly in democratic politics, really a stranglehold on things. Whereas if they weren't able to you know, collect that money, and there's all these kind of state laws that are trying to push for that that you can't automatically deduct the dues from you know, employees in
that fashion. If you took that money element away, I think that's probably, you know, the biggest it would have the biggest downstream effect in terms of our kind of ability to get good reforms in the education system, because especially on the you know, the democratic side of the equation, there is such this fear that a Democrat, they tell us this privately off.
And they're like, look, I'm with you.
Maybe when it gets to the vote, I'll be with you, but I cannot stick my neck out or else they will wipe me out into primary, right, And that's that's really harmful to the politics because it's also this nefarious I mean, it's a taxpayer funded initiative essentially, right, because our tax dollars are going to the school employees. Their money is then getting shuffled over to the teachers unions automatically.
Not that's not a good sign dynamic here. And so but aside from that, the last couple of years, parents have really made their voices heard. They got to see what happened during COVID. We've been much more effective at getting our message out there to those parents directly. So we've been able to actually beat them, even though we're well under resource relative to them. As we kind of talked to.
What's step one in fighting their dominance and actually ending that, you know, taking money out of every teachers and every employees paycheck. I mean, is there a way to stop that?
Yeah?
I think there are a number of states of past laws where you know, you had the voluntary contributions have to be voluntary and they can't be automatic, right, And there are a couple of Supreme Court cases that kind of dealt with this at the federal level that made it such that you couldn't just you know, automatically take money out of, you know, the teacher's paychecks. Jana's decision
was pretty notable in that regard. But then of course the unions had already been seeing that the writing was on the wall here, so they have their thous of lawyers. They had worked out different ways to say, sure, you won't be automatically joined into the teachers unions, but the way that you have to like opt out is there's this one Saturday at this random time and you have to have your original teaching certificate that you got to bring.
So they created all these kind of.
Artificial ways to keep keep the doors from like you know, them flooding for the exits. So there's a lot of really good groups other folks that you should certainly talk to in your podcasts that are working on that issue
in particular. But for us, you know, it does actually go back to the school choice laws in that if you are giving parents total control of their child's education funding and they're able to kind of freely choose the location or the type of setting home, you know, brick and mortar, you name it, suddenly you know the power of the unions and the power of the blob, all the bureaucratic elements of this that has been just rising dramatically over the last thirty years.
When parents are in.
Control, suddenly there becomes a marketplace. Florida we've seen this the most where they've embraced all of the options right, public, private, charter, all of the public schools have gotten better in that regard because of it.
Right.
So again, when parents are in charge, that's usually the biggest lever. And then there is this kind of element on the margins. I think that is an important part of it, but where it's like, hey, we need to really rethink how the teachers' unions and these kind of public sector unions are able to operate in this you know, unlimited fashion in a lot of ways within our kind of public discourse, in our politics, so a lot of.
The time, and I admit that this is true for me. People only start to care about things like what they're teaching at the local school, or school choice or any of this when they have kids in the system. You mentioned before we started, you have two small kids, so this isn't actually personal for you yet. How did you become so passionate about this?
Yeah, again, it goes back to that story where I'm you know, touring these beautiful schools with these in these like high poverty areas that are doing so well for these kids. You're talking to the teachers about the student body and their challenges. The teachers are saying, roughly fifteen percent our kids are homeless, or you know, you have
all these other ailments. You know, parents that you know, single parent households that are really in deep poverty, but they are getting their kid into this great school, which is their ticket to end generational poverty in many ways, and you're thinking about the fact that the unions are trying to essentially either close these schools make sure they don't get any state funding.
And it's just when you're.
Looking at the kind of dichotomy here of how enough farious it is that there are people that they do not actually care about the student's success, especially of these kids in deep poverty. And you know, lower income families have been screaming about this for generations, and lawmakers and others will say, well, no, you know, the schools I went to, they were good, and we just need to do do like we did in the seventies and eighties.
It's like, you know, there are really deep, deep cracks within our kind of public education system that we need to fix, and there's this sort of moral imperative that we should all have about that. And to your point about parents not really you know, understanding this or paying attention to us until their kids are going into it.
Too late, it's like too late to make changes once your kids are in it.
Yeah.
No.
And thankfully there were visionaries kind of a people that founded AFC who were you know, both philanthropus. They were giving out lots of scholarships, but they felt at that time in the nineties they're like, look, we could give out the entire fortunes of every kind of major family in the world here, but we're not changing the system. Right, we're giving a lot of you know, we're giving out
a lot of proverbial lifeboats. But the system remains unchained and actually was only growing, and it's kind of power and influence. And so therefore thank God for the people like you know, Betzy to Voss, even the John Walton Bill Obendorf, who at the early stage of this said we need to fix this American education system or else it's going to be too late for the future country and everything. I mean, we could have a long debate about poverty, right, but it's so much of it stems.
From a poor education system. Right.
And for parents at the individual level again, I almost I love when a parent really kind of comes to this with like the zeal of a you know, convert, where they go, oh my gosh, I didn't realize how it was you. And again, this is the nature of our system, where if you grew up in this system that just said, hey, it's your zip code and this, I mean, when the game is sort of set that way, you're not really thinking could this be different and should
we change it? And I think again COVID really had this seench of sketch moment on the American consciousness that wait, all these other countries aren't doing it like we do, right, and we can actually have a free and open system where we control our education funding. Especially when we're spending about twenty thousand dollars per kid per year in American kind of education, we should be getting a little more for that money and we can probably improve outcomes make
parents happier. And again we're seeing that in places like Florida, and you know it's soon to be Texas once we get that across the finish line next year.
For this year, rather, it just impresses me so much when people don't have skin in the actual game, and actually, like the wealthy people you mentioned who have donated, they could have just kept their money and done something else with it, or you know, they clearly could live in the best zip codes and send their kids to private school and just move on with their lives. With the fact that people get involved in this way, it just gives me a lot of hope and optimism for our country.
I think there's a lot of places where I don't think that philanthropy works like that, and that people make differences in the lives of people that you know aren't in their world or in a completely different sector of society.
I'm just I'm impressed with all of that.
So now well and it's I think again they felt that moral paying right that unlike I mean, it's probably a bad analogy, but unlike healthcare, where it's like, look, we're talking about a lifetime of decisions and a lot of you know, a lot of factors that key into how we're thinking through you know, having a healthy you know,
make America healthy against kind of situation. Whereas education is like, look, you've got this essentially depending upon the kid, but you know this twelve to fifteen year window where you only
get this one shot to do it right. And some of these early decisions, I mean a lot of people got captivated in the nineties and two thousands when they started seeing the research that like, look, if you're unable to read by third or fourth grade, you're really not going to you know, get that back over the years, and that's going to just you know, put you into this pipeline of poverty.
Or worse the rest of your life when.
You go when you kind of start factoring in all these facts, all these ideas around education, how important of a vector change it can be with these sorts of early internet. You know, how many people do you know, Carol, in your life to talk about that one great teacher, right, or that one kind of even if it's just a social setting of like the right students in your kind of cohort, that one grade where it's like, you know, that's when everything changed for me and I really propelled
through middle school and then high school because of it. Right, So all these things like gosh, education is the silver bowl to all of these things in life, and we got to get this right. And where it's too great a country to have, you know, minimal dreams or kind of mediocre kind of notions around education is fine, we'll
fix it. You know, so many of these students that we bring into our team, who they themselves benefited from a school choice program, they often have a very similar story that you know, their mom, dad, we're fighting tooth and nail to get them into that better school. The local terrible public school was telling them, no, no, no, We've got this ten year plan. We're going to fix it. It's like ten years is too late for almost everything, right, and lo and behold, Carol, they never got that ten
year plan in place. They got a lot more money, they didn't fix the situation. So again, this is where it's like, if you can put your kid into a great school tomorrow, their whole life can be changed, Their whole family's life can be changed, especially if they're in dire poverty.
What do you worry about, Well, I think we've been talking about it.
I mean I do worry, you know, I tell you know, I often reflect upon when it's like graduation time, you
know it's May June. You know, you really do reflect upon, like, gosh, the urgency of this issue, and that if we didn't pass that school choice program, how many more graduating classes of kids, especially you think about like a freshman or sophomore where it's like, if you could have put them into a better educational environment, maybe that's what actually propels them into college for the first time in their.
Family or so that kind of that moment where we're thinking.
About the losses that we have in terms of the state legislative fights where it's like we weren't able to pass that program. I do always worry about kind of those kids that fell through the cracks that we know we could have helped, We know we could have put them on a better life path. And I mean, we're talking millions and hundreds of thousands of kids, and what does that mean for society ten twenty years down the road?
And I remember at the early outset of COVID and the kind of the lockdowns of the teaching union started to orchestrate, and as you know, in some places they locked schools down for two years. There were studies that com yep, exactly right. And then when you look actually right across like the proverbial street, at how ninety percent of private schools were opened by October twenty twenty, you started to go, wait, what's going on there? Right?
That's that's unjust where's the science? How is the science working? How are the private school kids safer than the public school?
Right? Political science was ruling the day in that regard. But when you looked at how in particular, and this is getting back to your question about what I worried about at that time, there was a study to come out saying there's basically three million kids that we don't really know where they are, particularly in these kind of blighted communities, high poverty situations. And it's just devastating because when you really think about the long tail of that.
We have roughly three million people going through our kind of prison system. And if you think that, like Gosha down the road, of some higher percentage of those kids that are on the proverbial streets or are not getting a great education and they're relegated to these kind of terrible life paths, you just really think about the impact on our welfare system, right and the quality of life overall for a society.
And again, it's.
Such a simple thing that we can have the best education system in the world. We should for some populations within America. We really do. We can bring that at scale if we just made some of these systemic reforms. And again, I think COVID was really that slap in the face for so many families, and I'm so glad it is. Even so many politicians got up to it saying, oh, yeah, we were our assumptions about our education system were incorrect.
We need to implement school choice right now. And thankfully we said, look, we've got the plan in the drawer.
Here's how you do.
Here's the lessons of mistake that we've learned of how to create a really successful, thriving type of program.
So the things I worry about again. It always comes back to the kids.
More coming up with Tommy Schultz. But first January twenty seventh was International Holocaust Rememberance Day, a day to remember the great evil of the Holocaust, when millions of Jews were slaughtered during the Nazis reign of terror. Today, the rise in global antisemitism and the constant attacks on Israel show us that it's more important than ever to remember the atrocities of the Holocaust to ensure it never happens again.
That's why I've partnered with the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews. They provide food, shelter, and safety to Jews in Israel and around the world, including those remaining Holocaust survivors. Your donation today will help provide food, water, medicine, and other basic necessities to Jewish communities, and through your gift, you'll stand with the Jewish people and against this growing antisemitism and give a gift to show your support of
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What advice would you give your sixteen year old self other than you're not going to be a doctor.
Yeah, it's it's interesting because I feel I have lived a twenty different lifetime since my sixteen year old self. Again, when I was moving all around across the country, you know, working on political campaigns, that was a different subset of my life when I was sixteen, you know, still in
high school, but I was really I was working. They were spending a lot of time as a competitive trapshooter going around the country, and so I was really focused, even potentially on making an Olympic run at that point, should I even go to college and all these things. So I feel like my life advice of my sixteen year old self wouldn't be that much of a difference maker because everything in life there were so few variables, So you know, you're so singularly focused on just a
few things like school and athletics. But I think if I were to give general advice to my younger self, and I think to anybody, in some ways, it's mindset really matters. How you kind of talk to yourself about your goals, your dreams, how you're evaluating your life path against something I didn't do as well when I was thinking I'll just go and be a doctor, you know, not really evaluating that and thinking through, hey, maybe are
all my assumptions correct, but everything else too. That There's a great book called The Luck Factor where I don't know if you've read it, but they talked to They were kind of these longitudinal studies around people who are they view themselves as lucky, right, and some people and the more that these people viewed themselves as lucky, it's low and behold lucky chances seem to come their way more and it's less about like some mystical notion that
the universe like tips the scales in favor of them. But they'll do these scientific studies where it's like, are you walking by this, like this dollar bill or something, and we did that person.
Pick it up?
And the unlucky people always view themselves unlucky, like they will miss that dollar bill because they're not looking at and their brains just aren't subconsciously kind of thinking through these issues. And this again goes to every day decisions around you know, goal setting and am I making the right goals and do I have a dream and ambition or something that I want to work on that is
actually exciting. And then that goes to the negative end of it two, where how many people do you meet in your lives that are so down on themselves or they have this negative script or nothing's going to work And it's like, well, lo and behold, I things aren't going to work out if you're always looking at it the wrong perspective. And there's plenty of other great books, you know, mindset Carol dwack All, the kind of other research.
I really wish I'd stumbled upon this stuff earlier, and I think more young people would benefit from that type of you know, that kind of psychology and training around mindset, and even the studies when you look at young children in their education where you know, telling someone you're so smart versus telling someone you worked really hard at that, right, and then you kind of all these amazing interventions that show like, yeah, actually your mindset is almost the most
important thing versus these kind of having this belief around like immutable traits that you just can't control, and there's these factors always outside of your outside of your decision framework. So I think in general, with my younger self. I whish I had stumbled upon some of this earlier.
I love that.
I definitely consider myself lucky, and I think that I could see how it perpetuated itself. Absolutely, you know the fact that I got to be American just starting right from there and moving on to the rest of my life. I think I feel like I've walked between rain drops the whole time.
So I'm going to.
Read that book.
Yeah, And in this matter of luck, I mean, this is what I hate about our education system, right, where so much of it is predicated on luck. Are you born into the right zip code right the last five arbitrary digits of your home address? And we've built this because of partly the Jim Crow era where there's segregating communities based upon race, and therefore, like we've just sort of kept a version of that system where hey, again, your home madres dictates your entire educational pathns.
There's some of these communities where you.
Know, from elementary then to middle then to high school, some kids, every single school they will go.
To is one of the worst in their state or even the country.
It's like, gosh, I think about even you had that one one outlet even at any point in that chain of elementary school you went to a great school, or middle school you went to a great school.
All of a sudden that just I mean.
Luck should not play a factor in our education system, especially how much we're spending, how important it is to the future of our country.
Absolutely well, I've loved this conversation. This has been really eye opening in a lot of ways. I've enjoyed it very much. And here with your best tip for my listeners on how they can improve their lives.
Yeah, I think you know, we were just talking a lot about mindset. I think really people both understanding the mindset plays such an important role in your day to day life right personally. It's hard to give general so the entire population of your listeners, but I think that will be you know, that's the importance of understanding both.
If you're setting these really ambitious goals, exciting goals for yourself personally, for your family, for kind of your work as well, I mean, you're going to get so much more out of life. Our country needs that kind of you know, type of spirit alive and well today. Whereas if people are you know, if their mindset and if they're hopeless they feel everything's going to be a dead end, and some of this is being driven by the government's
bad policies, whether it's in education or otherwise. Again, having that ambition, having those big dreams, having the mindset that we can actually do this, we can actually your day to day existence, you can be you know, light the spark that changes the world. You know, I'm Catholic, and if you really look at the lives of saints and how like even you know, people as humble and as poor as you know, Mother Teresa's the world, how they can truly change things by individual action.
This is what this all comes down to.
So I hope more people understand just how important their lives can be and that they can really make a difference in their day to day their families at the localist, you know, the most local level, and then with their work that they're doing on a day to day basis. And so a lot of gratitude you for kind of putting this out into the world with your own work where you've kind of had these positive enough lifting conversations. I know you're focused at big on education, You've written
books on these things. So thank you so much for thank you being such an important kind of I think vector change for a lot of other people's lives.
If he's Tommy Schultz, he's the CEO of American Federation for Children. Check out that group. They are fantastic.
Thank you so much, Tommy, Thank you, Carol, talk to you soon.
Thanks so much for joining us on the Carol Marcowitz Show. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.