How Effective Are Podcast Ads?

gun, but you're right. That's what we're talking about today. Today is my turn, or this video, this topic is the one, is one that I brought to the table, and it's about podcast ads and how effective they are at maintaining the attentiveness, attentiveness of listeners. Here we go. Boom. It only took us four tries. All right, you guys won't see the other bloopers, but here we are. All right, so yeah, we're talking about podcast ads, which this sounds like a I don't know if it's an

unconventional botter topic. I feel like, you know, this is kind of right up my alley, even though I think this is one you might expect from Blythe, but I decided to bring this one to the table because I saw an interesting headline in pod news earlier this week that said podcast ads generate nearly the same level of attentiveness as TV, and the hyperlink took me to this very robust survey and report from, I believe it is from the cumulus

Media Group. They shared a report and their key findings from several attentiveness firms, which is something a new I learned. I guess there's a couple of firms out there in the world that test the quality of ads, that help advertisers understand if like, their ads and their their brands and these commercials that they make will actually be effective. So this is all about, you know, audio ads and attentiveness. So I want to share why and how it impacts

or benefits podcasters. In short, audio ads are still a very viable and lucrative monetization strategy. They're also beneficial to advertisers because the audio format, and specifically podcasting listeners are more engaged and are more inclined to be more attentive during like the listening experience. And that's what this report for them. I mean, so very long report. I'm trying to dilute a lot of the findings and whatnot to a short and sweet YouTube video. So I'll

just be sharing. I'm gonna have a link to the report in the in the show notes. You can check it out for yourself. I'm just gonna be sharing some of the key findings and things that kind of intrigued me. So there is a an attentiveness firm, which was new to me. There's a couple of those out there, and their job is to measure the quality of

ads. So they study like, you know, how good an ad is for, you know, obviously for advertisers, for big companies and brands, are trying to figure out, hey, will this ad actually resonate with our target demo? Are they actually listening? Are they absorbing or memorizing? Memorizing the the content, are they getting it right? So there's a couple of firms out there that have done studies into, you know, how attentive listeners are depending on the

medium. And what they found is that they found that $1,000 of am FM radio ads require almost more than double that when it comes like Facebook ads achieving the same level of attention. So what they found was that audio platform generate nearly the same attentiveness as TV. So in short, you would be spending, you have to spend more money on digital ads that you know for Facebook, for Tiktok, versus running ads on an audio platform. They perform audio tends to perform better, just as

well as TV. Running ads on TV, because the listenership is a little more tentative. They're listening they're absorbing more another interesting real quick. Did they say if it was, you know, the like the auto inserted ads, or did they say if it was like, host red ads is they differentiate between the two different I think it was mainly host red ads. But I don't know if they differentiated to that core. I believe it's just, you

know, host red ads. But they were saying it's part of, like, you know, it's part of the the podcast medium where trying to scroll through a bunch of notes. But they're saying that listeners of podcasts that their top state is, what they're called, is a state of wanting to learn something new. So they lean into like, they pay attention. They're, they're looking for context. You know, they're there to learn, versus they say that music streaming services, the top need of the

listener is to relax. So, you know, they call that like lean. They're leaning back to the concept. So they're, you know, playing it in another room. They're not as focused. They're there to relax, versus podcasts, where you're a little more attentive. So if an ad runs, not only they're saying that not only

and I hear ads, I skip them. But if I'm in the middle of listening and I'm doing something, I'm not skipping those ads and I'm listening to them. So I think, you know, just to, I guess, to co sign, what that last data point, said, yeah. So there's also mention in this report that they make mention of this association of national advertisers, reveals our three state and I think it's to your point here. But the association national advertisers, they outline three stages of what they define as

the attention pathway. There's get noticed where you're just noticing the ad. Oh, I'm listening to an ad. Hold attention, you know. Okay, now I'm focusing. What is this about? And the last path is impact memory, which reads, uh, well, if attention now is sure, the creative must deliver a brand message that affects the short or long term memory of the person paying attention to the

ad. So in short, if you can if you can capture, if you can hit those three paths, for a listener, you know, the better that they're retaining or that ad is having an impact on them. So I guess, and

all the graphs and charts. But I found it pretty crazy that for the same amount of money to achieve the same attentiveness of $1,000 in am FM radio, $26,000.35 you know, 2635 would need to be spent on Facebook. And then, you know, Reddit is right up there, LinkedIn is right up there. So

the more digital. You know, on these platforms where the goal isn't so much to be attentive or, you know, you're trying to learn something new, your advertiser having to spend more money to achieve the same effectiveness as am FM radio, these very primarily audio focused formats. That makes sense, because when you're on social media, the ads interrupt

your experience. Like, I have loved Tik Tok since it kind of blew up during, you know, 2020 but now so many ads are on that platform, and they try all these different ways to to make you watch these ads, and it's an instant skip for me. So say, you know, for example, you know, I'm watching a video that I really enjoy. It gets to like the last couple of seconds. Tiktok now will automatically play an ad and just swipe up for me to an ad when I'm still trying to like, watch that video or hear

it even on the loop. And so I cannot stand that. And so for social media, I think it's, it's more about interrupting your audience, whereas in podcasting or audio formats, you are almost complimenting the experience.

And so I think it kind of, you know, maybe the the big takeaway, because I just actually wrote, um, wrote this down because I'm looking at to re record my ads, like I had the same ads in my show for a while now, but I really like that takeaway that you said that ads that help people learn and

adding in. And so my light bulb just went off like, oh, instead of, you know, just talking about someone's software, someone's service, I can start off with a fun fact, or some kind of fact that helps draw that person in so that they continue listening to that ad and continue

listening to the show. I think there's like a level of like saturation where you kind of want to be conscious of because this other report that you brought up, I don't know if you want to bring it up later on, but the hottest scribe report they were talking about how ad stacking and high frequency, which is campaigns with AD stacking, such as double spotted ads, or a high frequency of 15 plus ads per listener, which is nuts. Imagine 15 ads in a

podcast. That's crazy, but they say the show severely diminished the performance. This suggests that a saturation point where too many ads can negatively impact effectiveness. You know, it's kind of like, take it with a grain of salt that, like podcast listeners are listening to your ads, but don't overdo it, like there's a there's a breaking point. Do you have, like, a breaking point, I think, for for ads and the shows you listen to? Yeah.

I if I did, I probably wouldn't be listening to the my two primary ones. One of my favorite podcasts to listen to is the quest Love Supreme podcast, by far, one of my absolute favorite shows. But what kills me is the amount of ads they have and how long they run. It's so much so that I it's a muscle reflex, like, I know, you know, I've got to hit it. You know, the 15 the Fast Forward 15 seconds, like, you know, eight times or nine.

Sometimes it's like nine. Other times, it's like 12, depending on but they just have it placed, and it just so much they'll run like, four, five ads back to back. It equates out to, like, a minute and a half. I know there's a minute and a half. It's actually not bad for a minute and a half to have four ads. It's just that. It's stuff that, like, I don't, I don't need, or I already have. They do, like, Airbnb ads. It's like,

alright, I already either. And they, sometimes they have Hotel Ads, you know, I'm like, Okay, I don't need this particular hotel right now. They'll have ads for, you know, Florida, blue insurance, you know, I'm like, I definitely don't need that. So they just taking checks from anybody. That's which it feels like it, but no fault. But I think maybe they should take a different approach. Look it, look it ain't broke, and I guess it's been working out for them

because you've skipped ads. Is it because I'm still listening every week, like, you know, religiously. But I think, to go back to this, I found it interesting that there are firms that specifically measure attentiveness, you know, like we talk about, you know, I don't think that's something that we brought up ourselves. We talk about the importance of like, you know, running ads, whether they be host read or dynamically inserted into podcasts, as being a viable monetization strategy.

You know, getting ads. Did they say the methodology of how they determined that? Like, are they studying? Yeah, actually, yes, yeah, yeah. So Adelaide, Adelaide, hopefully I'm saying that, right? They actually have a measurement of for attentiveness. It's called the AU metric, which measures attentiveness. I'll see if I can find the fake ESPN. So AU, our

status. It says Adelaide. Adelaide helps marketers move beyond viewability with AU, the first omni channel attention metric that increases the transparency of media quality. So, you know, they actually found a way to, I guess, I don't know if it's scientifically backed, but a way to measure marketing speak, to be honest, it kind of does. But look, I mean, I would like to know how,

how are they doing this? Are they measuring, like, fast forward, how can you possibly do that in an audio file, unless you are actively like, watching somebody listened to a show and then, or maybe you immediately afterwards, like, poll. I think they, I think the only way to do it, I think the report does bring up, you know, that they are testing it on, you know, test subject sounds weird, but I can't think of the other word. But they're testing on people to, like, see if they retain

what ad was played? Did they remember it? And, I mean, that's kind of the gist of this report. Is that audio format retains more attention than, say, like, you know, a digital ad or and their other point too was that the myth of you need video and sound, and, you know, whatever visual cues for ads to be effective isn't necessarily the case that audio is a strong platform in media for or medium for ads to be absorbed and for listeners to pay attention to

what you're trying to sell. So I bring that up and I share this, and once again, it's a very robust report. It'll be linked in the show notes. There's even a really helpful 30 minute, not 30 minute, 13 minute video, where they just specifically talk about the key findings. Once again, that's from the cumulus media group that has done this, media attentiveness and ad skipping. Report, which, yes, would one audio active group, which is wondering, super nerdy, you know, podcasting

stuff. But I think, I think, in closing, what I'm getting at is that we've talked about a hurdle of finding sponsors and having, you know, corporate I don't know like working with advertisers and finding sponsors is that you've got to educate them, that you've got to provide the backing the research into why podcasting is a viable media for medium for advertisers. And I think when you see reports like this that tell you that, hey, a company and advertisers gonna have to spend double where they

would spend. I would have to spend double on Facebook, Reddit and Tiktok versus, you know, running an ad on a podcast and have it actually be impactful and memorized to a listener. I think, is power, you know, that's power to an indie podcaster that can approach that could bring facts, that could bring these reports to.

A potential, you know, to a potential sponsor, to a potential company that wants to work with them, or is looking for a way to run Audio Ads. Yeah, I would agree with that. That last statement, I would really is, as far as, like, podcasters using this kind of information, I think you use the headline and that's it, because looking at some of these graphs and stuff, it's quite a bit a lot of graphs that makes sense. It's also like, how much of this

is bullshit? Like, how much of this is just made up arbitrarily by some metric that I'm not 100% sure of how they came up with this metric. What's the methodology? What is the the the amount of people that you know they have surveyed per these ads? What kind of show you know? What are they host? Red ads. Are they, you know, automatic ads that you know, or dynamic insertion. So I have a lot of questions around that, and I'm sure you know, all these 1000

charts. Might you know, mention that, but I still think that it is very challenging. It's very difficult to measure ROI on a podcast ad. And I think companies like this that are trying to convince you that they can do it are selling a product or a service. So you have to take that also with like, a grain of salt. They're probably selling this metric in order to get more advertisers to

advertise on their shows. But I think, but I think if the goal of an advertiser knowing that they're not going to maybe get a, you know, a customer in the

first listen. But if, if the goal is to imprint and leave an impression, knowing that it's going to take some repetition and, you know, repeat listening, I think knowing that, okay, well, at least an odd running an ad on a podcast or an audio ad is going to have, is going to be listened to, and, you know, the customer is going to be attentive to it a little more than, say, me running an ad on

Facebook. You know would agree with that, but I don't know that we could ever attribute a specific amount of dollars or amount of attention span that is wide ranging, because they're comparing this to all of these other different mediums where there's so many other variables.

Facebook advertising is just a beast in and of itself, where you have to have the right copy in the right headline and the right graphics, and you know whether they appear at a carousel or you're showing a video where it's vertical or it's horizontal, like there's all these different variables for each of these different advertising places that I think it kind of just muddies the

water a little bit. And this screams like, this study screams as if you are an ad podcast advertising firm trying to convince companies to place money with you because their shows, they have the ability to measure it, and we have to, this is a bigger topic inside of like, the world of like marketing and sales, which is kind of where I live, you know, a good portion of my life. And marketers are so obsessed with attributing value and ROI to a podcast play that it is unreasonable. It's sets up bad

expectations. And so when you look at podcast advertising to your point botter, we have to educate our clients on what is a realistic outcome that you that that customer, or that client of yours is going to get from advertising with your show. If they're expecting X amount of sales or X amount of leads coming from your show, then that is a big red flag. In my opinion, podcast advertising is for brand awareness. There is no straight line from listening to a podcast ad to that person

purchasing a product. It doesn't exist, and anybody who says otherwise is lying to you or trying to sell you something. This goes for the whole of the advertising industry in and of itself, and so I don't think that this is very different from that where they're trying to attribute a value to something that simply can't have that

value on it. You are advertising on a show to build brand awareness, to build that familiarity, so that someone goes to Google and they search up your company, or they go to social media and they search your company. Now, what happens if that user goes to Google and then searches for your company, and then they see digital ad from your company. You click on that ad and you fill out a form on that website, or you make a purchase. The person who's getting credit for that ad is

Google. When Google was just the pass through channel that made that transaction happen, but Google is getting the credit for it. And so there's all of these different you know, I'm getting on a little bit of a soapbox here. A lot of these things, we have to be better about educating our clients and telling them we don't really know, and it's okay to embrace the we don't really know. There are other things that you can do. You can have a website. You can put a link in your show notes.

To them, you can put a trackable link use a tool like Bitly, or, you know, another one of these, link shortening tools where you can measure a little bit more.

If you have a podcast website that that goes an additional mile, especially if you are creating content around that particular episode, highly advise that these are creating those signals that the person or that the client who is responsible for giving you that money can look in their own reports and say, oh, okay, we, you know, we got 10 visitors to our site from this particular podcast episode. None of them became leads. Is that the podcasters fault, or is that the

advertisers fault? I sent the horse to water, but it's your job to make them drink, and so we have to set up these realistic expectations. And I think that stuff like this, these kinds of studies, I like to hear it from, from the theoretical point of view, but I don't know how much of this is based on concrete evidence. If that makes sense, that concrete evidence doesn't exist. I like a couple of points you brought up in terms of, you know, this isn't a clear pathway

for the record. The report never mentions that. It doesn't say, hey, this will lead to X amount of sales. It just says that audio ads lead to more attentiveness from listeners compared to digital ads based on our proprietary metric that we don't now, I did look it up really quick. I did look it up and, I mean, it's proprietary. I mean, would you want to share the secret sauce of how your study doesn't exist? All right? Well, look, let me see if this

changes your mind. And now, nor am I trying to completely cape for this company. I'm not marry off, but I went on the idea Adelaide website, and they do have a I think they share their metric. Adelaide's au attention metric is generated by a machine learning model that evaluates hundreds of media quality signals, eye tracking data and full funnel outcome data in display and video placements. These signals fall into categories like clutter, placement, position coverage and

in view duration. Not really sure what all of that means, if I'm being completely honest, but it sounds like it. I mean that I see eye tracking data. I mean, how is it we're gonna see if you're paying attention? Anyways, anyways, I feel like we

went on a tangent here. My original point stands that running ads on your podcast is still a very viable monetization strategy, and clearly, based on this report, for advertisers, it means the opportunity to maybe have your ad, your message, maybe ingrained with the listener a little more, which might maybe lead to a sale. It is not clearly defined in here at all. I think Blythe brought up a couple of good points about

the reality of it. There's a lot more factors that go into being aware of an ad or a product or whatever, and actually it resulting to a sale. Can we agree on that? Yeah, absolutely. And that's definitely a fair point. And I would still I have no scientific way of backing this up, but I would still argue that the nature of listening to a podcast creates a more conducive environment to listen

to the ad. Love it, and I don't know if that I think you've made the verbiage of still good advertising method, or you said that podcast ads are still a good method of advertising, I would argue that it's undervalued and that companies like this that are trying to compare listening to a podcast ad to digital spending on Facebook or digital spending on Google, those are just you can't compare these platforms like that. I disagree with how they came up with this number. I get

it. They're trying to sell a service or a product. I just think that, you know, studies like this are more to benefit, like the I heart medias of the world, not necessarily like the podcasters like us, where, you know, we have a responsibility to our audience, and we have a responsibility, you know, to our advertising partners to explain

the reality of these things. And you know, we live in a digital world, but not everything can be traced back in a singular purchase line where I listened to this episode with this ad, and this person became a customer or bought my product within 45 days, it just doesn't exist. You can look for the signals that your ads are working. But there's a lot of different variety or variables at play there. So just be cautious when I guess using studies like this from, you know, big I would say big

podcast. It maybe that's the phrasing I want. I'm looking for podcast media versus, you know, shows like ours, where we are on the ground, explaining the value of advertising with us and what that means to our clients. Our clients aren't looking for studies like this. This is for marketing departments to make themselves feel better about the money that they're spending. Solid advice to end on. This is where we turn the. Enables to our listeners and our subscribers and ask their

thoughts on the topic. What do you think about podcasts as you run podcast ads, what's your limit? All right? Are you a two ads only? Type of person? Do you do you put more ads on your show, and if you end up reading the report and you find something that either compliments the point I was trying to make or contradicts it, let us know. We would love to hear your thoughts and opinions on today's topic. If you aren't subscribed to the

channel, do me a favor. Just hit subscribe and just be done with it, right? You know you're going to come back for more episodes, and if you're listening to the audio version, hopefully you're subscribed, but hopefully you've already left a rating and review, because you know how much that helps, and you know how much we'd appreciate it. But in the meantime, you guys take care, and we'll catch you around right peace. You.