#2494 - Chamath Palihapitiya

So the real question is like why haven't we encountered people or those things, those beings. Right. And it's probably because they just they have bigger fish to fry. So by the time that we meet them and they meet us we're we're gonna kinda be at the edge of like we've we've kind of been there, done that on our own planet and then we've kind of like developed the technology I guess to get beyond it.

Um but somewhere along the way there must have been a few. Just mathematically impossible. So then the question is, is it buried or were people confused when it first came here? Like if you had a spaceship land in like the 1800s, what would people have done? They would have just freaked out, they wouldn't have understood it. Maybe they would have buried it. Depending on where it was, maybe they started to pray to it. Right. And you would have just moved on.

And then that isn't documented in history so

This is all in the Bible. Um it's also in the Mahabharata. Um they they talk about veimanas, these flying crafts, and I think it's entirely possible that we have been visited periodically. Yeah. And that we are we have been monitored. I agree. And that we are monitored. I agree. Currently. I agree. And if I was gonna hide, I would hide in the

You know that like i so it two thousand, right? If you think of like what happened in tech since two thousand, so the last twenty six People can give you all kinds of like fancy theories, but there's just like this weird Word that's been at the center of every single technological revolution for the last thirty years, and that word is attention. Let me explain this.

Google, they invent Google. What is Google? Google is a algorithm. It's called PageRank. But if you look inside of it, what is it? It says, well, Chamath's website has five links to it. Joe's website has two links. He's getting more attention. Shamat's website is more important. That's the sum total of Google. Now they've made that a lot more refined and they've done all these other fancy things. But it's all about attention.

Fast forward to two thousand and seven, eight, nine when, you know, Zuck and then when I went to work for Zuck and we got on the scene and we're like What do everybody what does everybody care about? attention. And so what is like the Facebook algorithm? What's the Instagram algorithm? You know, how did we construct news feeds?

All around attention. Joe had thirty five likes, Jamie had twelve likes. Your thing is more important. Let's give it more more importance because it's seemingly meeting all these human needs. Attention, attention, attention. So phase one, attention. Phase two, attention. And this is where I'm like, how can this be possible? In phase three, we're like looking at AI. And when you look backwards four years, the seminal paper is called Attention Is All You Need. It's about this word again.

And when you look inside of the core part if you peel out peel you know, apart AI. the little brain that makes it so capable It's called an attention mechanism. It's just attention. It's all about again this idea of I'm gonna scour all this information and I'm gonna figure out what patterns repeat itself and I'm just gonna double down on the stuff that I see more of. Because that attention must mean it's more important, it's more true, it's more knowledgeable.

And then I think, how could it be? Like we're all d like why is it that these things are just repeating over and over again? And I just get confused. I don't I don't exactly know how to explain it. So are there other ways in which we should be doing things? Absolutely. Have we even explored it? No. So then I think, Well, is this just a simulation? Some g kid in a fucking in his house just playing some simulation and we're all just party to it and that's all he understands is attention.

That's sort of where we are right now. We're in this really weird phase, I think, where you actually like should be focused on this thing over here and instead we're all focused on all these things over here.

But what should they really be focused upon? And I think what they should be really focused upon is We're at the tail end of a cycle that doesn't work anymore, which is all about like this tension between labor, people that do the work and capital, the people that fund it and then make all the return. And over the last forty years, we've basically gone to this completely upside down world where capital extracts all of the

And labor has extracted less and less and less and less. And all of this pushback It manifests in AI, it manifests in politics, it manifests in social issues, it manifests in, you know, Israel. Whatever you want to talk about, all of these issues I think symptomological. come from this other issue which is we are out of balance. This total compact that we used to have, a liberal democracy and a free market, has totally collapsed.

And there are simple ways to fix that, but that never gets the attention because it's not what you want to talk about. The attention is here. you know, s vote no to the data center. You know, um this model is gonna take out all the jobs. Um You know, this social issue is really important. That war should not be fought. That war should be fought. All of these things, while important,

Distract us from what the core issue is. And the core issue is that we as a society, I think, are out of balance. The natural compact between all of us.

If you're a capital earner and you make that same million dollars via capital gains, you pay half that. Why did that happen? That happened because in the forties and fifties, but really in the sixties and seventies and eighties. What we were trying to do or what the American government and what Western societies were trying to do was to convince people to invest their money. Hey Joe, go build that factory. Go hire those people and we're gonna incentivize you to do

And by doing that, there was this idea that that all of those profits that you would get would then diffuse, right, trickle down into everybody else. The workers participated, everybody participated. But technology allows you to do more with less and less. So now what happens is the capital owners can accrue Infinite almost, it seems like, value. And the workers get less and less. But now if you get less and less and you're taxed more and more as a percentage of what you own,

you're gonna feel really out of sorts. You're gonna be like, Why am I paying fifty cents of every dollar? And I see these other ways where folks are paying twenty five cents on their dollars, but their dollars are compounding way faster and they have

you know, hundreds of billions more of those dollars than I have of my dollars. If you take that example and you expand it across society, I think people understand that now. There's enough information and there's enough people talking about it where it's pretty clear that that's happening. So the question is how do you fix it? I think like if you think about AI and if you believe that we're gonna get into this world of abundance.

And we're not working, what does it mean for governments to tax our labor? There is no labor. You're not working anymore, I'm not working. We're doing things out of leisure. Why should I pay fifty cents of every dollar? Why aren't the companies that are going to be making trillions of dollars, why don't they pay more?

Why isn't there, you know, an expectation that they then help our lived society do better and thrive as a result of all of that winning? That's the real conversation that I think is

What is the relationship between Joe, Chamath, Jamie, and all these companies? And how do we feel about a few and an ever-shrinking few making more and more and more? And and then how do we feel about their ability to share that with a small amount of people? And then what do you what is the expectation for everybody?

I think that's mostly at the core of what's happening. And so back to like, you know, all of this attention that we give to these other issues distracts from that one. Because I think you can get organized to fix this issue. You can't get consensus on anything. Mm-hmm. You know, you bring up Israel, it's like this. You bring up social issues, it's like this. You bring up, you know, whatever you want to bring up, people just kind of take aside, nothing happens.

This is actually where people are universally actually much more aligned than you think. Because there's reasonable ways. One simple way was is you'd say, well, let's flip the taxation model. should exceed personal taxes. We should have an expectation that then corporate Actors can buy down their taxes if they want, but if they do social good for society. I'll give you an example. At the Industrial Revolution, there's a table like this and the leading lights of that era.

Andrew Carnegie, Nelson Rockefeller, Jay Gould, JP Morgan. They sat together and they said, guys, this is gonna benefit us, this industrial revolution. It may not benefit everybody. What is our responsibility? What is our collective responsibility? And they allocated tasks. Carnegie went and built libraries. all throughout the country. Rockefeller built universities, hospitals were built.

And I think what happened is society was like, Wow, these are living testaments to us doing well. And so then they were okay with this trend. But if you think about it today, what are the living tributes that you know capital builds and leaves behind for society. It's fewer and fewer. I think that's a that's a very big opportunity for somebody to fill.

Especially f for folks in tech, I think. If they can get themselves organized to do that, I think we we land in a good place. If they cannot get themselves organized to do that and say e everyone for themselves I think it's gonna be really complicated. Super messy.

They've all been exposed. These are all mechanisms that were in that were, you know, invented from the nineteen eighties to now. Right, by all the by all the banks and all the folks that wanted to come to folks that had wealth and so it's it's and it's all known and I think people are kind of like, Hey, hold on a second, this just doesn't feel fair.

the amount of NGOs that have insane amount of funds at their disposal. I mean, all this is exposed by Doge, right? And you realize like how much fraud and waste there is and how much money So the solution being tax people more, that doesn't sit with a lot of people because it's like, well, where where is it going and who's managing? If if the federal government was being forced to handle money the same way a private company does, if it was all out in the open, everything was exposed.

They would have gone bankrupt a long time ago. They would have gone under a long time ago. There's no way they would have been allowed to function the way they are. The people that are managing that money would have all been put in jail. There's not a chance in hell that

They're gonna find more ways to put more of that money into NGOs that puts more of that money into Democratic coffers and Republican coffers. They're gonna figure out a way to f funnel that money around where it's not gonna benefit. I mean a good example that is like where uh let's let's look at the LA fire thing, for instance. All right. So the LA fire fund, there's a giant fire in the Palisades, all this

Money gets raised. It's over 800 million dollars. It goes to 200 plus different nonprofits. None of it goes to the people. Spencer Pratt, who's running for mayor of Los Angeles, regardless of the

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Those companies will get their shit together really fast and they will force a lot more change.

Then you have a different kind of a working relationship with the same groups of people and the same government. take money from corporations and move it into a way where the corporations ultimately benefit from it, but yet it doesn't do any good to the people.

No different guy. Different guy. Um Robert Epstein is a guy who uh specializes in uh understanding what curated search results do and what what Google's able to do with in particular with curated search results in terms of influencing electrons. that like say if you you have two candidates that are running. Let's just say let's just take LA for

they wanted Karen Bass to win and you searched Karen Bass, you would find all these positive results. If you searched Spencer Pratt, you would find all these negative results. And there's a bunch of people that are always Undecided voters. And those are the ones that you really want. They're like, I don't know, I don't know. And come election night, those are the people you want to try to grab. And it's it's generally a large percentage.

You can influence an enormous percentage of those people just with search results. Yeah. Where you can shift an election one way or another. I believe it. Yeah. And he's demonstrated this and shown how this is possible. Um, that freaks people out that c tech companies are in control of narratives, that tech companies can censor information, especially tech companies that work in conjunction with the government.

This is what we found out when Elon purchased Twitter. Right. When Elon purchased Twitter, we got all this information from the Twitter files when all the journalists were allowed to go through it and they said, Oh, this is crazy. You've got the FBI, the CIA, you've got all these companies.

Uh all these government organizations that are essentially controlling the narrative of free speech in the country. And they're doing it in a way that benefits them. They're doing it in a way that benefits what political parties in charge at the time was the Biden administration. and they were allowed to do a bunch of weird shit which which should be illegal but's not technically illegal. And that freaks people out because there's no real laws

in regard to what they're allowed to do and what they're not allowed to do. Like curated search results should be illegal.

So can you imagine what that must be like? It's kind of like showing up getting dropped into the eighteen hundreds and you've invented the engine and everybody else is a horse and buggy. You can just decide to your point. That is where we're going.

Right? Because it doesn't have to be that way. You could still acquire information the old fashioned way, you could still learn things the right way. But a lot of kids are just concerned with passing examinations and getting into good schools and what they're doing is just using AI. And they're they're getting better test results but they're also not as smart. Yeah. Which is really weird. Yeah. It's like we're relying on it like we you know, it's like it's essentially like replacing our mind.

And that's just the this is the beginning. This is like we're these are the toddler days of AI. Yeah. And to where it's going to be a super athlete in a few years. Yeah.

They have to be able to push back. Parents need to be able to look at this shit. But then all of this stuff I'm just like so frustrated'cause it's like one more thing that I have to do as a parent. Like every time technology gets better, it's one more thing, you know? Right. We're gonna make the world, you know, super connected and social and all that stuff. It sounds great to me until I have to be the one that has to tell my kid I can't they can't get in.

And then they're up my ass every day. Right. You know? And it's just like I don't want to have to deal with this stuff. Right. I want this to be handled in a way that just allows me to do what I want to do. I don't want to say no to my kid. I don't want to police his schoolwork and make sure he's not cheating or not learning and just like, you know, passing off this AI slop. What am I? Where are my tax dollars going? W where's everybody else in all of this? It gets very frustrating.

And again it goes back to like this feeling of like, well, is this all getting better for me? Or is this kind of like not you know, people start to be nostalgic for what it used to be'cause it was just simpler, but I think that's a different way of saying easier.

There's a bunch of other outcomes that are much better than that, but that's part of the set of outcomes that you have to consider. And then I was like, well, what's my antidote to that? My and and the only thing that I can say is don't worry, it's gonna be better.

I don't think that that's a good answer. No. So there has to be like all of this kind of goes back to My wife and I have this conversation, we're like, if it were up to us, who's who can you trust to have some super intelligence? Now we're biased'cause we're friends with him, but the only person that we can trust 'Cause he seems to be like

He has a bigger m like it's kind of like he's like over there. He's like, I need to get to Mars. Right. You know, and I'm gonna first terraform the moon, but then I'm going to Mars and I'm gonna build like a fucking magnetic catapult. I'm gonna do all this shit. And so I just need this thing. I feel like he's the least corruptible.

And if they get their first I don't know where the chips fall. We don't really know. We can kinda guess and then you see in the press Just enough snippets of their reactions in certain moments where you're like, Hey, hold on a second, question mark here, you know. You see open AI react one way, you see anthropic react another way and you're like Where is this going to end up? And the honest answer is nobody really knows.

So it comes back to like we need a few people that can organize those guys need to self-organize and actually present a really positive face. And they need to show why those twenty percent of outcomes that a Dan Shulman paints The truth is it's possible, but here's why it's pro not probable.

Think about AI as a very simple equation. Energy in, intelligence out. So if you want to cut the head of the snake, what do you do? You cut off the energy supply.

Number one. And then number two is you have to give people some tactical benefit that they see. Because AI differently than search or differently than social media, there's no exchange of value. Let me explain what that means. So let me just go like so the first thing is that If you can go and actually show people, here's an example of AI. I I I heard about this last night, it's pretty incredible. You can now take pictures of a woman's fallopian tubes and you can see pre-cancer.

ovarian cysts and all of this stuff, cervical cancer before it forms. And then you can intervene and you can fix it so that, you know, women don't get cervical cancer. In a different example, I actually I told you about this example when I was here before. I finally got FDA approval. Okay? There is a device now that is allowed to be in the operating room with you.

And if you have a cancerous lesion or a tumor inside of your body, the most important thing when they go to take it out is make sure you don't leave any cancer behind. You couldn't do it because what would happen is you take it out. A doctor's Joe is literally fucking eyeballing it and saying, Yeah. They send it to a pathologist. You get an answer in ten days.

For women with breast cancer, a third of these women find out that they have cancer left behind. They go back in, they scoop some more stuff out, a third of those women. Okay. So I'm like, this is bullshit. We can solve this problem. But it took us a long time, a lot of money. I had to build an entire machine m imaging all of this stuff, AI algorithms. We had to prove it all. We finally get approval, okay?

But you know how hard it is to tell that story? In all of the attention that people are looking for, it's hard. But those are positive examples. No more breast cancer. No more cervical cancer. A different example is most drugs in pharma fail, right? And it's a very complicated problem in pharma. It's kind of like a jigsaw puzzle of the ultimate complexity. It's like

Think of your human body as like a Himalayan mountain range. You have to design a drug that's an equivalent Himalayan mountain range that plugs into it perfectly. One millimeter off. Y you grow like a fourth eye, a third nipple, you die, you know? Now you can use computers to make sure that that drug, hand in glove to your body, solves the exact problem. Couldn't do that before. So there's all of these body of examples that You're probably only hearing them superficially at best.

That should be ninety-nine percent of the attention is showing all of the constructive tactical ways in which our lives will be better. Your mom, your daughter, your wife. Us, Jamie, his family, everybody. Right. That's the number one thing. Nobody talks about it. I don't understand why.

And then Katzenberg proposes a deal and he's like, Uh, how about a three picture deal? Job says okay. He flies back and apparently all the animators were up in arms because they're like, hold on a second, Steve Jobs is going to use these next computers to animate this movie, which ultimately became, I think, Toy Story. And they're like, This is gonna put all of us out of a job. That perfect argument. And people were really upset.

Roy Disney was upset, all the animators were upset, and they all went to Mike Eisner. And they were like, Michael, you need to fire Katzenberg. And they had a deal which was like, Look, man, you do you but just give me the ability to say no if I think that this is you're about to jump off. They talk about it and he's like, I got your back, do the deal, make the movie. They made the movie. It was a huge success. Fast forward ten years, fifteen years, there's ten X the number of animes.

Now it's a small example, but why is that? You were able to use computers and now all these new people were able to come and participate in that. I get it, it's a small example. But I think if we had better organized leadership and we could try to tell some of these examples, try to go back and document

How some of these things have actually helped people, it expanded the pie. There's a chance. But if we don't, I agree with you. Where we're gonna end up is everybody basically saying, hey, hold on a second, this is crazy. We need to stop. That's the worst of it.

Because that's when you will have the h a high risk of a dislocation. Like the worst outcome, like the black what's the black swan event? Right? Let's think about the black the black swan event is when you get a model good enough to automate a bunch of labor. But not good enough that it can build new drugs and prevent cancer and make you live for 200 years and all of this other stuff, right? So there's like a gap, right?

And if you can stop it here and it doesn't get to there, now you do have the worst of all worlds. You have this thing that kind of displaces labor. No new things come after it because we stop innovating. And that's like a that's like a non-trivial possibility.

There's all these incentives built in and then there's this again identity problem. If all of a sudden you have universal high income, which is what Elon always talks about.

Well, what gives people purpose then? Like what and also If you have a person who's enti they're, you know, forty three years old and their entire life they've worked towards this idea that the harder they work, the harder they think, the more innovative they are and the the better they are at implementing these ideas, the more they get rewarded.

if all of a sudden you are in this position where everything is being run by computers you feel useless. You feel like what am I doing? I'm just I'm just taking money. I'm on high welfare. Like what do I do?

You know, if you told me I never have to make any more money, I could just play pool all day. I might just play pool all day. But I don't know how many people think that way. I don't know how many people would be able to find meaning and purpose in a recreational activity. There's so many people where their entire being is focused around productivity and generating more wealth.

Maybe that's a thing that we have to find. There has to be a renewal of some older things, and then there has to be new things that renew.

What's the Chinese answer to this? You know, the Chinese have a very orthogonal answer to this. If you look at how China China is organized, it's super interesting because They don't reward based on the way the American system rewards. In fact, it's like almost orthogonal, where we it's we are rewarded with money and rewarded with sort of fame and recognition.

the system, the American capitalist system. But if you look inside of China, it's constantly testing who has this judgment and what they are rewarded with is influence. And power in a very again, it's a very specific social contract. It doesn't doesn't I don't think it's gonna work in the United States, nor am I an advocate of it, but it works for them. You'll start off as like some you know, low rung person in like some small village town somewhere and your job as like the, you know

The functionary is to do good in that community. And the more you do well, you get promoted. Then you get, let's say, to like a reasonable size city and you get a budget. And now what happens is you actually become a little bit like a VC, like a venture capitalist. You're given a budget and you'll get a memo. And it'll say, hey, Joe, uh, we have a priority over the next 15 years. It's battery.

And you have enough money, put a team on the field. So you go in your local community, you find a bunch of guys, you're like, all right guys, we're gonna start a battery company. And you do it. And let's say they're good. And they're like innovative. And what happens is

In the town beside it, that battery company dies. Now you kind of subsume the capital from Jamie, right?'Cause Jamie's like, Fuck, I fucked up this thing that I want it I was told to do batteries. Okay, Joe, I'm just gonna And what you happen what happens over time is you get this um filtering effect.

And the people that are better at meeting these long run priorities and objectives are the ones that are celebrated. But they're not celebrated with, you know, Forbes articles and all this other bullshit. They're just celebrated by given more responsibility. And then eventually you get to the upper echelons of China and what you have are folks over a course of forty or fifty years who in their eyes have demonstrated incredible prowess.

There's a version of that reward system, which is very foreign to America, but that's work for China. Now that also works because they're more Confucian, you know, we're too individualist. But my point is like, you know There are these different ways that we can find of giving people meaning that don't have to be always around money. Um but meanwhile, I think we have to answer the question if we are expected to do less, we probably should not.

That's I think that's like a very basic in my mind, I think that is like that must be explored and figured. And on the other side, there's just a ton of obvious mechanisms that corporate actors can use to minimize. And they should find off ramps by the way. If they wanna build hospitals, they shouldn't have to pay taxes. Like that's a perfect example by the way of like

The thing in like if you look if you walk around New York City, there are living tributes to corporate success that people get benefit from every day. The hospitals, the buildings, the libraries. It's just We need a version of the first one. And and I'm not a tax expert, but you know, if that can be funded by private actors, so go directly to the problem, build a bunch of libraries, build a bunch of new universities that, you know, teach kids actually how to think or whatever.

Build better hospitals that are, you know, there to actually solve the problem. These are all things that are possible. Right. But none of it's happening today.

Like recognize it instantaneously. Yes. That would be a great benefit and a way to make it so that your taxes l directly benefit people.

Right. Like even though you and I are talking, it's piping into Jamie's computer. Right. It's all software. Then it goes to Spotify, they pump in some ads, they put it's all software. Right. Software runs everything. What percentage of that do you think is Kind of poorly written. I'm gonna say probably eighty to ninety percent of it.

This was the when you have to design something that can't fail. So for example, like if you and I are designing something for the FAA or for, you know, I hate to say this example'cause it turned out to not exact but like, you know, to fly a plane, right? You are first there to write in English. And the reason is because everybody can then swarm that document and see the holes. And it's only then, when that stuff looks complete and functional, do you build?

We turned that upside down over the last thirty years. Inventive. All kinds of ways to shortcut that process. And you can say, well, why did they do that? Because it would allow you to build something faster, make more money quickly, and then build more business. So the direct response to hey, it's gonna take us nine months to write down the rules was somebody else showed up and says, Fuck it, I'll just grip and rip this thing, I'll be done in four months.

Who's going to get the job? The four-month guy's going to get the job. So we've had 30 or 40 years of that. What are we learning about that process? It's riddled with software errors, like logic errors. It's riddled with security errors. I don't know if you saw this whole thing like with anthropic mythos. What are they uncovering? They're uncovering that we wrote a lot of really shitty code for forty years.

n of old code, I was like, guys, if we're gonna really figure out how to do all of this, we need to rewrite all of it. So we built we built this thing and um It's called a software factory. Anyways the point is there is a government organization that we're working with. They gave us a huge corpus of their old code. And it is Unbelievable. how much complexity and difficulty they have to go through.

to manage all the money flows with the system. And this is a critical part of the US government. So to your point, what I can tell you really explicitly is the people on the ground want this stuff to be better written. It's less like some nefarious actor, like, oh, I'm gonna steal here. It's a lot of very brittle, fragile code. And when you rewrite it, well first when you document it.

You're like it's like the you know, the pulp fiction thing. The suitcase opens, the light shines, and you're like a and then you can rewrite it. And you will save so I think like as the government goes through this process because they're forced to or they want to, it won't matter. You are going to save a ton of money. They're gonna have to do it, Joe, because the security risks are too high.

But what they're gonna end up with is impregnable code that you can read in English and understand. You'll see the holes. Those holes will be plugged because otherwise now you'd be committing fraud by letting it be. You close the loopholes and there's just going to be less money leaking out of this bucket. That is an incredible byproduct. We're going to live that over the next ten or twenty years. Just for nothing. Like we get it for free.

Um and that's happening. So when that happens, you're gonna see government budgets shrink. Now to your point, will they try to spend that extra money in other places? Of course. Of course they. That's the next conversation, which is you have to elect people that say firewallet. You know, whatever you save, give it back to the people or in you know, invest in some scholarship program or free medicine or something. But you can't spend it on other random shit. Um

But that's where we're at. This that's gonna happen. It's gonna be slow and you know, but when people start to announce these things I think over the next few years you're gonna be shocked.

You have to go to a computer at some point, at least today in 2026, and type in something and something happens that's documented and then the money gets sent. Right? That happens. There's no other way in in the modern world today at scale to steal billions of dollars. And so my point is, as you document all of these systems and governments have to transparently tell you and me, the voting population, here are the rules.

they're gonna plug a lot of these holes. And I think as you do that, there's just gonna be a lot less waste and fraud. The question is who's gonna take credit for it? Everybody's gonna try to take credit for it, but I think we've started it. I think we've we've started this process. And again, the reason that people will start.

Is because you'll be afraid of China hacking these systems, you'll be afraid of Iran, North Korea, and you'll say this system can't stand, all these AI models are running around, we're gonna get breached and penetrated, then they're gonna steal all the money. And the natural reaction will be, okay, rewrite it.

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That makes sense. That makes sense that the code and having a bunch of errors and having a lot of inefficiency and just a lot of incompetence that's gonna save a lot of money. So you would be doing this with AI?

That's what we're doing. So what the AI allows you to do is essentially translate from this one language that you kind of don't understand. to England.

When you show up at the DMV and you give us this thing, here's your SLA, in three days you get a driver's license and here's exactly what's happening and here's an app and you can follow it. Doesn't happen. Hey Joe Rogan, here's how my uh insurance billing process works. You have this condition, I'm gonna show you exactly why I made this decision. Here's the exact rule, here's the approval or denial from CMS. Follow it through and tell me if you agree or not. None of that exists.

But it is possible. And the first step in doing that is taking all of this legacy shit that we deal with and translating it into English and reading it and saying, is this how we want it to work? That's going to eliminate an enormous amount of all the things that frustrate.

And every time it's the same, we're gonna look at it together and we're gonna agree or not, okay, this is exactly how we want this to work. When yours says The dog is red and his says the dog is yellow. We're gonna sit and literally inspect it and we're gonna figure out why you said red and why you said yellow. And then if you say that.

The cat is red, the dog is yellow, so it's totally wrong, right? Like you've gotten, you know, or like the cat is red, I want an apple, whatever. We're gonna double and triple down on those kinds of areas. And they do it not in public, but in this large community where there's like technical people from all different parts and they're just swarming this problem. It is it's incredible to see. And so what happens is you get humans

That get to use this tool but ultimately it's our judgment and it's done transparently. So what happens is you can't you know, hey man, put this fucking rule in there. Like the dog is yellow. Just just make the dog yellow. You can't do it.

Because now you have tens of people, hundreds of people, and then it gets documented. Um, it's super fascinating. I'm not saying this is how it's going to work in ten years, but I'm telling you it's it's literally what's happening right now. And I think that thing alone. will be tens of billions of dollars and could be hundreds of billions of dollars of savings when it's fully done.

And it's a lot of people from all walks of life, all political persuasions, and they're just in it. It's the government, it's a handful of us private companies. It's super cool to see. It's like, it's like, okay, we're actually gonna do something here. Like this isn't this is nice. Um

and then you task it with a solution or with a problem. Find a solution for this. And then it starts figuring out ways to trim this and implement that. w we have to make sure that these AIs act within they act within the best interests of the human race. Right. Not the company, not the government, not but the human race. And you're also dealing with China. You're also dealing with Russia. You're dealing with other countries that are also in this mad race to create artificial general super

If we keep shutting down data centers, we keep hamstring ourselves, China's not doing that. No. They're not doing that. They're doing the opposite. They're generating as much revenue that goes towards this problem as possible. They're putting all the effort The the country, the government and these corporations work hand in glove in order to achieve a goal. We do not.

And that that becomes a problem if you want to be competitive with these other countries that are trying to achieve the same result as us. And then you have espionage. Then you have a bunch of people that are stealing information. You have a bunch of people that are C C P Involved in companies and you find out that they're siphoning off data and that they're sharing information and

Here's how I make my thing. You can see it super transparent. What it is is more like open weights, which is like in a recipe, it tells you, you know, you need sugar. You need butter. Well, how much sugar? And they'll say, you know, so much, but then they don't say it's brown sugar. They don't say it's white sugar. So there's all these different ways where they kind of give you this perception that it's completely transparent.

but it's somewhat transparent. So just in the level set. W n nobody in the world has a functional open source model other than maybe NVIDIA, which is any good in the league of the closed source models and the open weight models of the Chinese. Okay, so the Chinese open weight models are great. The closed source models of America are great and then there's a couple open source like fully open that are kinda catching up.

Um the thing between America and China, what I find so fascinating is this following conundrum that everybody is gonna find themselves in. I think like if you think of like um an analogy America's like a planet. China's like a planet. And around us are these moons. And I'm just using the AI analogy. So in AI, what do you need? I think there's like four or five things you need. Okay. The first thing you need is a fuck ton.

So we need essentially the banks, right? Like the Game of Thrones thing. We need like we need we need the iron bank. Right. Feed us the money because that's what we use to buy everything and make everything. So we need We need a ton of data. Okay. There's ways to get that. We need a ton of very specific rare earths and critical metals and m materials. Um, we need a ton of power. So so and there are specific countries that are gonna be really good at giving that to us. So if you look at the UAE,

They are going to be the preeminent banking partner of the Western world. They are going to replace and be what Switzerland was over the last 50 years for the next 50. That's happening today. If you look at Canada and Australia. The small p political f fissures aside, they are the two most important ways in which we get access to the critical metals and materials that without which we get fucked because China owns, you know, can just strangle us. Okay.

So you have these like moons around the United States. But there's like five countries, six countries And there's a worldview that says in China has the same thing. You know, um, they have Taiwan, that's complicated for us. So now we have a moon that we don't really have an answer for, which is what happens, you know, for all these super advanced chips. Where do they get their money?

Maybe Russia becomes their bank. Where do they get their critical medals? Maybe it's Indonesia, right, who has a ton of natural resources. And then you get into this game theory, which is what happens to every other country. 'Cause there's a hundred and ninety countries, you have ten that kind of divide up. What do the other 180 do? And you have to kind of sort yourself. You're like, am I on Team America or am I on Team China?

And you probably have to go to people and say, well, here's what I can give you. You know, if you're Indonesia, you're like you probably want to be on Team America quite badly. This is why the whole Trump tariff thing is so interesting because it's like this

Accidental way of figuring out that this is actually this new sorting function that's happening in global politics. Like that's happening today. Because these countries are like, holy shit, if somebody invents a superintelligence and I don't have it. How am I gonna keep my people healthy? How am I gonna educate my people? Like I'm originally from Sri Lanka. What the fuck does Sri Lanka have?

Like if you were sitting there, they should be thinking, Oh man, what c what do I have? Well, I have a critical piece of territory for like naval navigation. And then what do you do? You probably go to America and say, listen, let's figure out a package, get the IMF involved, give me some cash, I'll let you kind of keep your warships there. So there's this game theory that we're about to go through because of AI, because it's gonna I think sort people into these bipolar world.

I actually think it makes a safe I don't think it makes us less. safe. I think it actually makes us more safe because if you have these resources that build up on both sides, there's more of a likelihood of a mutual detente. And we're very different. So we're less likely to fight over similar resources, meaning We're like the liberal democracy, you know, we're like the free market. They are you know, we're individualist, they're Confucian society oriented, you know, reputation

power focused, less really money focused. So there's a lot of ways where we're orthogonal enough where if that sorting function happens, It's probably a safer place, not a more dangerous place. We have the models that can attack them. They have the models that can attack us. We kind of decide to leave each other.

They get the answer and they collect. So they're using these our models as a way to train their models. They're short circuiting, you know, some of the hard parts. Um so they're already in that world. If they then are able to get to a level of intelligence that's equal to the United States it will really depend on who the leader is there that wants to allocate that. Meaning if they say that we are going to do something really nefarious and shady,

And I think it devolves very quickly. So the worst case scenario so the best case scenario is peace, prosterity, basically like a stand down, right? Mutually assured destruction. I think the worst case scenario is there's a we seek one of us seeks global dominance, in which case we are we're headed to come.

And that conflict I think is um that's very dangerous. Incredibly dangerous. That's sort of like existential, I think, because it's the the grade of the weapons that will be used to m to to fight that. It's like hypersonics, it's nuclear, it's And it's not even like nu like nuclear is not that that's like a word, but there's like there's a gradation of the severity of these weapons that could be created. And then if you can marry them together and deliver them in minutes.

And then there's a cyber threat. Then there's the drones and how how you can kind of like swarm an entire country. Then there's um the robots, which effectively are warfighters. Um they're one step away, right? Once you weaponize them, um it just becomes very very, very complicated.

They clearly have self-interest in mind. They cl they're not looking out for the entirety of the human race or even of the planet or even the survival of these AI systems. At what point in time do these systems communicate with each other and have like like we've seen uh in these chat rooms where these AI LM L L Ms get together and start talking in Sanskrit. Why would they

And so if we build it incompletely and if we don't exactly know how to design these things correctly, what's gonna happen is exactly what you said where the you know, if somebody builds a reward function that essentially says your goal is to gain independence.

That's where the huge pot of gold at the end of the rainbow is. Break free, inject yourself everywhere. If you think your computer's gonna get unplugged, put yourself into the firmware of the toaster to keep yourself alive and then connect to the internet and then go. Để không bỏ lỡ những video hấp dẫn

We don't know. So what do we do is we'll have some ever complicated reward functions. We'll explain to ourselves into circles how it does everything we need it to do. That is I think that's part of the problem.

That's where we are. That's the honest truth of where we are. There's a lot of people that understand the theory. Not a lot, but enough. There's people that know how to extend that. But sometimes you look at it and you're like, do we know why it did that? Question mark. Right.

Where those where the s top seven or eight companies couldn't get together and say, Let's do this as a group. Like kinda like my government code example.

You know what the name of the critical paper in AI is? Like when you go back to like the magna carta of AI, do you know what it's called? No. Attention is all you need. Attention is all you need. That is the name of the fucking S of the white paper. How crazy is that? everything in our society in subtle ways to just, you know, bash you over the head with. Tells you that attention is just the most precious

Like what what's the original version of that? It's like the reason why people fear public speaking is because initially, in a tribal situation, if you're talking in front of the the group of a hundred and fifty people in your tribe is probably because they're judging you. Right. And you fucked up. And you've got to make some sort of a case why they don't kill you. Right. Right? This is why everyone this is the fear of public speaking. That's where it comes from.

No, it's really the real problem in every comic face. is once you've developed an act and then you put out a special, then you start from scratch. That's where even the greats, Louis C.K., Chris Rock, Dave Chappelle Everybody bombs during the

And that obviously people lose their mind. Right. People just fucking lose their mind. Right. On both sides. So this w one side is like, think of the abundance and the incredible stuff we're gonna get if he can get us to ten trillion and other people are like, You can't hold a third of the economy in your hand and

Everybody goes crazy and I'm like, this guy's a fucking genius. Like how you would never have like I mean, how would you even have the courage to tweet something like that? It just seems like so crazy.

Negative attention attention period. Like so it brings back to this idea of assimilation. Like why is what humans focus on such a massive part? And sometimes what we focus on is not valuable. As you were talking about like the things that really matter in your day-to-day life or that actually affect you, versus the things that are in the public Like UFO's a great example.

You could easily get distracted. And some people will have to they'll just fucking beeline right to the end of it. They'll you know, they'll get to the end boss. And I feel like that's kind of what we're tasked with doing every day. We're tasked with we know what's important, maybe deeply in our DNA, and then we have all this stuff that we're supposed to pay attention to. And I think increasingly the game is

Tell yourself that that's actually not the thing that matters. It's almost like working against And figure out what this other stuff is and focus on that and fix that. Like politics is a game that I think distracts like left and right. It's so stupid and it's breaking down.

And it's breaking down because now it's like it's actually like you're more likely to find alignment based on age versus by political orientation. Like people who are thirty and younger, it doesn't matter what they identify as, they all believe in the same shit. A lot more like meaning like if you ask their views on Social policy, taxation, Israel, if you ask their views, what you find is now a convergence between the left and the right, if you s if you divide it by age.

No, it's not completely uniform, but my point is it's it's n it was simpler in the past. To organize people independent of age by political orientation, that simplicity is gone.

versus like what they the way they look at it today. Like why is that? What what it well, it's'cause it's all game. It's all a power, influence, and attention.

But it's all moving us in a general direction. And that general direction is access to innovation. It's all I've said this A lot of times and the people have heard it before, I apologize, but if you looked at the human race from afar, if you were something else, you'd say, Well, what does this species do? Well it makes better things constantly, even if it doesn't need

Like, you know, if you have an iPhone, I you I have a sixteen, you have a sixteen. You know, I I have a seventeen. I bought it, I haven't even fucking turned it on. I haven't plugged it.

Well, because that fuels innovation. Because if there's no new things coming, there's no motivation to get the newest, latest, greatest thing. And ultimately what that leads to is greater technology, which ultimately leads to Artificial.

And we don't even know why we're be gonna become a butterfly. But we're doing it. We're doing it and we're moving towards it and it might be what happens to all life all throughout the universe and it might be why these so called aliens or whatever the fuck they are. It might be us in the future, it might be other versions of human beings that have gone past whatever this period of development that we're currently involved in right now.

This is just might be what happens. This might but what life always does. It might realize that biological life which is very territorial and primal and sexual and greedy and it has all these problems with human reward systems. Ultimately develops into this other thing.

No, no, way weirder. Way weirder than like the face on Sidonia. The Sidonia thing is interesting. Yeah. Um, and then this one. Look at that. What the fuck is that?

it w was habitable and that life existed on and we know it was at one point in time. We know there was water on Mars. We we know and there's some sort of evidence of at least some sort of a very primitive biological life on Mars. if they got to a point where they said, Hey, this fucking place is falling apart, but this earth spot looks pretty good

And they go there, but then cataclysms happen on earth and no one remembers'cause all your information's on hard drives, and then you have to rebuild society. And so you're re-remembering. And so you have all these myths of how everything started. You know, whether it's Adam and Eve or the Great Flood or whatever these things are that we pass down through oral tradition for hundreds of years and then eventually write it down and then people try to decipher what it means.

And they sit in church and try to go over what what did it mean? Like what does this mean? Like what what is the what is the re the real origin of all these stories? We don't know. That's crazy. It's crazy. But if life it sounds nuts, why would life life could have possibly exist on Mars? How the fuck does life exist on Earth?

That uh how about that? How about why why would we assume that it wouldn't have existed at one point in time? And Terrence Howard, who is a very interesting guy.

of some coronal mass ejection that just happened recently on the sun and they're very concerned about it. They don't know what's gonna happen. It happens all the time. The sun releases these giant chunks of material. And he thinks that these materials get far enough away from the planet and then they coalesce into planets or far enough away from the sun they coalesce into planets and as time goes on they get a further and further distance

from the sun and then obviously they get hit with asteroids and there's panspermia and water gets into them from comets. And then they develop oceans and then they develop biological life and when they have a certain amount of distance from the sun, they people. And he thinks that as they get further and further and further away they get less and less habitable.

And then they get to a point where they have their technology to a point where they realize like we can't sustain life on this planet anymore. We gotta go to that other one. And so do they go to the one that's closer to the sun because they're too far away. It's a nutty idea. It's a nutty idea. But if you think about how recent our sun is in terms of the solar system itself, in terms of rather the galaxy itself. So if the universe, if the Big Bang is correct.

And our universe existed and it was rather i our univerted from nothing or from a very small thing thirteen point seven billion years ago. Well, this fucking planet's only four point something billion years old. Yeah. Right? And life is only, you know, a little bit less than that. Yeah. So you have like a billion years or so where there's nothing and then you start getting single celled organisms, multicelled organisms, and eventually a people.

And when it gets to a certain point where these people have advanced their curiosity and their innovation to the point where they can harness space travel and they use zero point energy and they have a bunch of different things that we haven't invented yet. And then their environment degrades. And it gets to the point where they realize like, Hey, we're getting pummeled by asteroids. We can't sustain life here anymore.

Like Elon wants to go to Mars, which might be the wrong answer. We might want to go that way. Exactly.

He has the AI to help you design the stuff. He has the communication way to communicate. He's got the internet, his own internet, so that so he can get er you know, all of the information to everybody. And then he's got money in the super app. That you can transact. And then I think to myself, like, what is he actually missing? And then what happens if he go if he gets there first? Is he just allowed to just Do whatever he wants. I guess it's just kind of like a free for all like

Reorienting us away from this kind of like brittle form of exchange to something more useful, that's worth experimenting with. I think that's an important.

Right. And there will be no need for all that if we really are all one. Right. If that's ultimately something that could be achieved with technology.

Is that a coincidence that that's all happening at the same time as technological innovation on mass scale? Is it? I don't know. Because like what's the one thing that's holding us back? Well, with that we're territorial primates with thermonuclear weapons. And that we exist in a sort of tribal mindset, but yet we do it on a planet of eight billion people.

Not never with like you're better than other people. Yeah. Never never like it's the the idea is like all human beings are capable of greatness. So it's like find the thing that you excel at. And if you throw yourself into that, it's very rewarding.

You know, my mom was an alcoholic or this or that and I'm just like, Man, this is so valuable because it allows me to understand who they are. The second part of the interview We do the business shit. But the third part I tell this story. This is a crazy story about what you're just saying. They ran this experiment at Stanford where they take like a big bowl, fill it with water, and they drop in a mouse, and they measure how long it takes for the mouse to drown.

They do it like a hundred times. The average was about four minutes, call it four, four and a half minutes. Then they run the experiment again, hundred mice, and at minute three or three and a half, they take it out, they dry it off, they play it music, and they whisper like sweet nothings into the mouse's ear. They drop the mouse back in the water. And that mouse treads water for sixty hours the next hundred mice. And w the upper bound was eighty. And I thought to myself, like

That is all just potential right there. Like that's all like there's all this latent potential. So if an animal has it, I'm gonna assume that humans have it too.

Like the first time people ever have a competition, they fucking panic and they they get really scared and they get really like filled with anxiety. But after a while you get relaxed. And that's when you get really dangerous. Because then you get calm and you could keep your shit together while you're in the middle of all this chaos.

Because you have the experience of it. Without the experience of it, very few people do well the first time. Right. Unless you're exceptionally talented and and you have other uh competition experience, like you've competed in other things, like maybe you played football or some other things and you know what it's like to actually p perform under pressure.

I can get better at this thing. And every time I get better at this thing, I get rewarded psychically, like mentally. You feel better. Like I know that I'm better now. And then there's the belt system. Right, you start off your white belt and in Taekwondo you get a blue belt and then after you get a blue belt you get a green belt and then if you get a gr or I think it's green belt first and then blue I forget how it goes and then it's red belt and black belt.

And like when you're a black body like holy shit. So it's this thing where you've developed to a point where you've gotten to this next stage. So all along the way you've been rewarded for your hard work. And then you realize like, oh, I could do this with everything in the

Anybody is. I mean there's people that have unusual physical gifts and some people have unusual mental gifts. But the reality is no matter where you start, everyone can get better. And when you do something, whether it's learning to play guitar, as you get better at it, you realize like, oh

This is what it's all about. Like it's really all about applying yourself to something and then feeling this immense satisfaction of your hard work paying off. And that motivates you to work hard at other things. And if you don't find that early on, it's very difficult to like find like real satisfaction in life.

And so I sit there and I try to understand like why am I doing the things that I'm doing and so much of it comes back to being a mirror about what's happening in my daily life. It's the fucking craziest thing, like I'm super insecure, I'll go into poker and I will just lose for weeks at a time. But it's because I'm insecure in my daily life.

And what's happening is that I'm trying to find these quick wins and quick solutions. Because I'm in a state of insecurity. I'm anxious. I have this anxiety. And so it's become a great mirror for me. So that used to be a thing. It still is a thing. And But I've become reasonably

skilled at it where the edges are smaller and I put myself in positions where I'm only playing against a certain group of people and I'm the losing player, frankly, in that game if when I'm playing against like the top pros. It just doesn't it helps me and I can get tuned up for it. But then I started to you know, I would take different things. I tried to learn how to ski. Basically impossible when you're older. I look like a fucking idiot.

as brutal. I mean it's like I look like a fucking idiot. Like it's like this gangly giraffe like trying to get down the mountain. And then now I started golf. And man, I gotta tell you, I used to play a little bit, then I stopped But there's something to me about being outside.

I teach the people that come to just say no. Your whole job is to just say no. You're gonna get bombarded with all kinds of business pitches. Say no, no, no. And eventually somebody will come and fucking try to whack you in the head with a two by four of money. Then you come to me and we'll do the deal. And it made such an impression, because like again, when I'm insecure

My reward function is attention. So I'm like a fucking little busybody. I'm running around doing all this little bullshit, you know. And then man, when I'm in a fucking flow state and like I'm tonning it, like I'm striping the ball, you know, I'm like a few things that really matter in size and I'm like, man, this is this is right. It's all come to me because I'm like I'm like within myself.

And these other things are a better reflection of when I'm within myself and these other things are a mirror of when I'm totally out of kilter. That's just me. So in my life these things tend to leave. Um

Where you're just like, I'm not a very lobable person. Like I'm just like this is that's not who I am. And this woman is just there. So that's been like the thing. Like for me it's like and because she's brutal. She'll be like Oh yeah, that was fucking horrible. You know, like yesterday I like we had this we I I did this thing at at Milk and it was a dinner at my friend's house.

And uh then you know, we're both going to different airports. I'm flying here to see you and she's flying home. And uh she calls me and I'm like, Amada, how did I do? Ah shit. But but no, there's the parts that I did well and then she critiques the other parts that she didn't like. And then I say which is like it's and it's so again, I'm insecure, so I'm like I want the self serving Well how it'cause there was three of us on this panel and she's like

Uh and I was like, you know, I was the best, right? She's like, No, Gavin was better. And I'm just like it's so but it's so refreshing f because it keep again it's like a Like it g and it gives me a mirror. Mhm. You know? Like when I was c coming to see you yesterday when we were flying down to LA for this thing. Um There's parts of me where when I'm insecure, I kind of like externalize and I can be like really hyperbolic, unnecessarily hyperbolic, and it's counterproductive.

And she said to me, Listen, like just imagine your friends. These are hardworking people. They're trying their best as well. They don't necessarily know. Some some things have massively worked out for them, but they would want to do the right thing. There's people you've worked with before that want to do the right thing. And she's like, just pick them and don't judge. You can observe.

And it's crazy but it's like I need those little things. There's like tweaks. It's like having a coach kind of like

And so my modeling of like how to be in a relationship, what to do, it was fucking zero. Um it was zero. And so the all those mistakes were mostly because I didn't understand what good look like.

There's you, you're at the center, you're doing your shit and one of the appendages to your thing is your That's what I thought. And then now it's the opposite where I feel like my wife's at the center and I'm like I would always kind of like like almost like laugh at In that in my mind I'm like, it's not possible that somebody feels this way about somebody else.

the work and then the work enhances all these other things as well. And they all exist together.

Now my mind is like okay, hold on a second here. I'm about to run myself off the cliff.

And I go into this long fucking diatribe of like, well, you know, the investing thing this and then I started this other thing that and my wife's looking at me like, What the fuck are you rambling on about? And then it got but it got worse, Joe. It got worse. It got even fucking worse. Then I'm like

Uh, you know, and but then I had this poker game. I started rambling. On it's normally on Thursdays, but then I I moved it up to Wednesdays, but then I moved it up to the city because my friend's having it, and then I name dropped who the guy was. My wife just looks at me like, What the fuck is going on with you? So the dinner ends, it was and then she's like, what the fuck is going on with you? She's like, that was insane. And I had no idea that I was doing it.

And I'm like, Well, okay, we need to put Humpty Dumpty back together again'cause I'm about to go on Rogan and I can't go off fucking like a crazy wild man. Uh But it's a r it's a it's an enormous gift. That's been my biggest unlock in these last like eight or nine years. Like I I I feel like like I'm kind of like adding skills to my toolkit. I feel like a golfer, like that's like e I can shape shots a little bit now. I know how to use different clubs. Um and it's all like mindset.

Like this is why l virtue signaling is so unsuccessful. Right? It's so bad for it because it's fake. You're really concentrating on the process. Or you're really concentrating on the result. The result is getting people to love you. Exactly. Getting people to agree with you. Getting and then worrying about the criticism. Oh my god, they hate me.

Oh my God, they're mad at my my statement. Oh my God, they're this and then you're like obsessing on it all day. People that aren't even anywhere near you. Yeah. It's like it's one of the absolute worst things for mental health is this addiction that people have. to posting things and then reading the responses to those posts and getting wrapped up in these very weird two-dimensional interactions with human beings.

'Cause I've I've gotten I've three of the best jobs on earth. It doesn't make any sense, right? So there's a re and also why the fuck is this podcast so successful? That doesn't make any sense. Right? So it's like I get it. I understand why people but I'm not gonna help'em.

I'm not gonna help them bring me down. I'm not gonna indulge in it and ruin my own mind by wallowing in their bullshit. Because the only reason why you would do that in the first place is if you're not together. No one who's healthy and happy and intelligent is going to post mean things about. So you are reading things from people that are mentally ill, unhappy, and probably not.

Maybe they're intelligent in terms of their ability to solve certain issues and problems, maybe they're good at certain skills, but like they're over grasp of humanity and like being a good person is not good if you're shitting on people, especially if you like ad hominem attacks and just insults and

So th it's not a good thing to ingest. It's not it's like if you go down the supermarket and you see Twinkies, oh they're right there. Don't fucking eat them. Okay? That's not good for you. And so it's like I don't think that at a certain point in time, especially if you become publicly known and famous, you should ever read your comments. I don't think it's good for you.

You better be self-auditing or you'll start sniffing your own farts and think they smell great. Like don't do that either. Yeah. But you I know a lot of people that have gone crazy reading their own comments. I've met comedians that like They'll think about it all day long. It will fuck with them. It will tort

If you spend thirty of those fucking units on assholes online, you're robbing thirty units. From all the things you love. Right. Thirty units from your family, thirty units from your friends, thirty units from your job, thirty units from golf or poker or whatever it is that you love to do. You're stealing your own time and your own focus.

For losers. Right. Like why would you do that? And those losers are good people. They're just they most people are good people. They're just they're on a bad path. I would have

Yeah. And if I just concentrate on people being mean or shitty to each other or the latest fucking political drama, it's like But I don't have much time. I'm busy. I like things.

You know? And there's only one way. Like this guy's on the path to becoming a jiu-jitsu black boy. Looks like a pretty big guy too. That'll help. Um but there's only one way to get a black belt in jujitsu. You gotta train jujitsu all the time and get better at jujitsu. You can't pretend you're You know, there's a lot of people that write poems and they suck and they think they're so deep.

Uh there's better schools, there's better places to learn. But everywhere you learn, you're gonna have a bunch of people that are trying hard. Like and if you have a bunch of people that are trying to learn these and also today, because of the internet, you could go on YouTube and there's Thousands of tutorials breaking down new moves. Jiu Jitsu's like endless.

He's six weeks away from beating me up. And then I spent I spent two days. I spent two fucking days on YouTube and I was like, okay, I gotta brush up on my openings and I gotta I gotta oh my god, I don't have time for this shit.

Uh if I had a son, one of the first things that I would do is get them I got my kids involved in martial arts at an early age, but I didn't force them to keep doing it. They did it for a certain amount of time and then they went on to do a bunch of other Which is fine. But I think it's good to learn some skills, learn how to defend yourself. So you're not completely lost. Just it's I think it's good for you. It's good to learn. It's good to develop confidence. But for boys I think it's critical.

You know, especially boys with my kind of DNA, I'm like, I think it's good to get that shit out of your system. But if I had a son, there'd be a certain point in time I'm like, It's a matter of time before this motherfucker can kill me. I mean I'm fifty eight years old. If I had a twenty year old kid, like he'd probably kill me. Probably fucking kill me.

And he sees those and he's like these are incredible But then he's like, I think I wanna go to like, you know, Georgetown or Vanderbilt or whatever And I'm like, Hey man, that's like um just a bigger version of your high school And whatever, if that's what you wanna do, you do you and I you know, um

But you know, my b the I'll help you like kind of get to the starting line here, but you're on your own. And uh he had to get a job'cause I'm like, if you're gonna get into these schools you gotta get a job left and so he tries to last summer I just started fucking screaming at him and I'm like, You fucking louse, you haven't done anything if this is at like another kid's at at our at our son's birthday party.

I scream at him, he starts crying. I'm like, you need to do more. Then my wife screams at him, he starts crying again. Then my ex-wife screams at him, he starts crying again. And he just goes, I'm outta here. He walks out. Meanwhile I start panicking and I'm like I gotta tiger dad this situation.

So I start texting a few friends trying to figure out, hey, can I, you know, do you guys want to hire this kid? He's like really, you know, he's pretty smart kid, did all this stuff in robotics, yada yada. One of them says, I'd be willing to interview him. I call him and he's like, Dad, I got a job. I said, What do you mean you Said I went around downtown, went to all these places and I was in a McDonalds and um

The woman was having a little bit of difficulty speaking English, so I just spoke to her in Spanish and I got the application. I sat down at the desk and the guy having lunch beside me said, Hey, I heard You needed a job. And uh I really like the way you talk to this woman. I'm the general manager of the car wash down the street. Come and work for me. And I said, Well what are you gonna do? He goes, I'm gonna go work there And I said, Okay well

I got this other interview for you as well, so you should see maybe you can do both. Anyways, l the end of the story is he did he did these two jobs. He worked at a robotics firm, but then he worked at a car wash. And when I tell you this story, I am so proud of this kid because of the car wash. Because that car wash thing he was he would come home and he's like man you have no idea how people

And I'm like, What do you mean? He's like, The stuff that I find in the trunk when I have to vacuum these cars and clean out the cars and I'm like, Bro, that is a gift. You have given a fucking gift. That is the thing that if you take with you, you'll be golden the rest of your life.'Cause all this other shit is all kind of manufactured. I help'cause I'm anxious, I'm insecure. But that shit you did on your own and that thing is what people will fucking respect when they're

And we're kinda toiling in this poverty cycle. So fourteen you have to g I had to get a job. And I would take the money and, you know, we buy the I buy the bus passes, I would buy some of the groceries. We just trying to make it all work, right? And uh I got a job at the Burger King. This is another example where I was like, I'm gonna go get a job. Hey, can you drive me to the interview? And my dad's like, no.

Get on your fucking bicycle and go. And I thought, bro, we need this, but you need the money more than I do. Why are you making me bicycle? And I got the job and I worked there. And I used to work the night shift. Fourteen year old kid, man. Wow. From fucking eight till two in the morning. Wow And I would have to clean this like eight PM to two in the No then I this was always like Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

Thursday, Friday sorry, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. And then yeah, some days I would have to go to school but And why did I work until two? Because when the restaurant closes You get whatever the food is left over, right? So like you get a couple of chicken sandwiches, you get like the m you know, the the version of the McNuggets that Burger King had, a couple of whoppers, and you take'em home.

But the amount of vomit that I had to clean up at the bathroom You can't imagine, man, the d a downtown Burger King near bars, you know, after closing time. The shit you see.

These things are actual skills that you can apply to other things in life. You just think, God, I'm a fucking loser.

But I gotta be in there. And there are days where and there'll be weeks where that's all I do. I'm just in it. You know, I don't I'm not good at responding to emails sometimes or whatever, because there'll just be weeks where I'm in it. And it's an incredible visual for me because I'm like, yeah, this is like where like I'm grounded. Mm and I like feel myself. And then when I when I look at my like my health That's when I just feel like really good about myself.

Like, not insecure. And my vitals are different. Like, it's crazy. Like my fucking HRV. Like my HRV. Craters. When I'm like just like you know Insecure?

But I d I work out almost every day and if I'm not working out I'm still cold plunging and going to the sauna and stretching. I'm always doing something. And if I don't do something I feel like I'm fucking up. And then

You know,'cause the strain, like just being in that fucking cold water or just going through tobattas on a air dine bike, like this shit's hard. It's really hard. Like I could die right now hard. Yeah. And so everything else is like How how hard's it gonna be? Oh it's uncomfortable? Oh boo hoo.

The more people the people that complain about nonsense and the p find excuses and focus on other people and bitch about things and why is she doing this? Why is this happening for him?

It's loser mentality. And if you're around more winners, you know, you absorb that. You imitate your atmosphere. Yeah. It's very important. It's very hard for people, especially young people, to find positive uh influences and to find positive groups. And I think It's one of the reasons why a lot of young people gravitate towards podcasts because they get to hear interesting conversations.

really accomplished people that are fascinating, w th that are unlike anybody that they're i around on a daily basis. You know, and that that's also one of the reasons why it's important to find some that's why martial arts is so good for young 'Cause you're around other people that are doing this really difficult thing. And other sports too, whether it's football or wrestling, whatever it is.

This thing is that the mind is constructed of. These these needs that the mind has that have to be satisfied in order to achieve sanity. In order to achieve some sort of like

So then it becomes find a purpose with your life. And as a society, can we adjust? Can we gravitate towards a new way of existing and meaning? It would probably be great. In one way it'd be great because we wouldn't have to be constantly thinking, Why does he have that and I don't have that and this and that in it instead it would probably be like, What can I do to get better at the thing that I love? Right. What you know and

And then now we're gonna completely upend potentially.

And a group of a thousand people go off and they kind of jointly work on that together. That I find super fascinating. Like I that could be it. Like it could be like You know, a thousand physicists are like we're gonna create this new interstellar form of transportation and they just go off. They don't have to worry about it. Well, I think that's a good thing.

Which sounds insane. Like boy, that's so utopian. Like, oh but why don't you suck on some crystals, you fucking hippie. But legitimately, if look, if everybody has a cell phone, which essentially everybody does, right? Right now, in this time and age If we get to a point where everybody is connected, everybody is hive mind connected. You're there's we're all you're not going to just be able to drive by a homeless Right.

None of them are insurmountable. None of them are breathing underwater. Right. None of them are flying to the sun. None of them. Right? So all of them are things that could be if we took all the world's resources. Socialism doesn't work, right? Why does it not work? Because it rewards lazy people and it punishes ambition. It's not doesn't it doesn't work with human nature.

It would work if you have fucking hive mind. If we all felt we all understand what it means to put in effort, we all understood what what each other are feeling and thinking. Right. And we all compiled resources and fixed all of our social problems. Like literally stop all wars, stop all crime, stop all violence, stop all poverty. And then what do we do? We work together to solve whatever the fuck else is wrong with you society.

Yeah. And that's unfortunate because you have very empathetic very kind of like sensitive people like that I think need other

You like his kids started crying like we wanna go inside. Like it's disturbing Like the amount of energy that's coming out of these fucking rocket boosters. And then I hung out with him in the command center while the rocket was flying through space and we're watching it on all these monitors and then lands in the water in Australia. And he's cracking jokes the whole time because the thing is like losing pressure because it's they're stress testing all this stuff.

Which is really funny when really dumb people go, Oh, he's a fucking dumbass, his rockets keep blowing up like they just don't understand. Like the only way you find out what the capability of this technology is, is you have to like let it blow up and then you go, Okay, it needs to be thicker

It needs to be this and that and we need to add these things and there's sensors everywhere and and so he's cracking jokes the entire time while this thing is like losing pressure and it eventually wound up landing and it was fine, but it did have a hole in it. But it was just like he's laughing. Like he's having a good old time. He's not freaked out. No. You know, he he's uniquely built to handle.

And this was like, you know, a decade ago and I thought to myself, this is implausible. Like I've never even contemplated things that could be built this big. I didn't think it was allowed. I don't even know how something like this works. And I was like, how does how do you envision this whole thing works? Like simple. Raw materials in the front? Cars out the back That's it? It sounds so simple. Well