#2378 - Charlie Sheen

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Finally meet you, Brad. It's a trip and and y you know, walking in and I'm thinking is there is how is it possible that our paths didn't cross all those years? It's conceivable we were in the same venue or the same building or at the same party or at least something. I kind of avoided parties. I I avoid basically everything. I avoided parties. I avoided uh premieres.

Any anything where there's a red carpet, uh like even if I was in a movie I wouldn't go on the red carpet, I'd go in through the back door. Seriously. Yeah, I don't like it. Wow. I don't like all the that fucking look over here, look over here. That is just Yeah. Too fake for me. It just whatever

allergy I have to that flares and I'm like, I'm going in through the back door. Fuck this. Yeah, no, I don't I don't blame you. I don't blame you. They they stopped um uh showing me where the back door was because I I I support a similar uh entrance thing. Um

It's just too weird. But it's that it's look over here, look over here. It's that thing. Something happens in that moment. Yeah. And I think it's like it's it it brings you as close to possibly uh uh sterilization as you can get without, you know I think it's bad for you. Yeah.

Yeah. Like you could take a little bit of it, but you know, you don't want to be working the X-ray machine your whole life. No, no. And then there's always that one lady who keeps calling you back to her. Charlie, Charlie, right. Far left, far left, far left. Yeah. And you've looked at her Like seven times already. And then I'm s I'm out there thinking, if it took me this many takes to get a scene right.

Nobody would ever hire me. Yeah. You wouldn't get past the first the first day. Well they want to get a million pictures just to get that perfect one with there's a little bit of side eye to you, just a little something. Right. A little purse of the lip. Yeah. But then they chew which one do they always choose? The one that's absolute dog shit. Yeah, the one with your mouth open. Exactly. Or your eyes closed.

Uh not that I don't like them, is that I don't wanna ever see that in myself. And so when I'd be around them, I would just go, Oh, I gotta get out of here. Right. Freak me out. The trappings. The trappings. Yeah.

Yeah. Um yeah, I mean is there'cause it feels like um that system's been in place for over a hundred years, right? Is there another is there another way to do it? Probably not. No. People like it. You know, photographers like it, the press likes it, it's a big thing. There's a lot of people, there's a lot of lights flashing, it seems legit. Right, right, right. Yeah. I just um I don't I can never um

Feel relaxed when everybody's yelling. Right. You know? It's that's it's totally unnatural. It's completely unnatural. The only way that would be happening in real life is if like you were on trial. You know, like you were being paraded in front of a bunch of people. It's him, there he is, look over here. W odd. It's very odd. Yeah. It's almost it's a form of a perp walk, isn't it? A little bit of a purp walk and just a a little bit of uh um a mental illness exhibition.

Right. You know? Yeah. I just had it for the first time, um, like last it would have been last Thursday. The first time ever? No, for the first time in like in like maybe over a decade. uh at the Netflix premiere for the and it was um it was kinda cool like the first, you know

thirty four seconds. It was like, okay, I remember this. And then it was like, yeah, I I I fucking remember this. Wow. Damn. And then I like I'm I'm in the b right the sun just beating right on my on my fore. And it's just I could feel myself start to sweat. Now I'm questioning the whole outfit. You know, the underwear choice. All of it. It's just like every decision I made leading up to that was completely wrong. Yeah. And the and it's all being documented, you know. It's so odd.

Yeah. What's really funny at the when I when you first walked into the studio, you brought up a tweet that I had sent in two thousand and eleven. I think this is when you were going crazy. Yeah. And uh I think this is also when my friend Russell Peters was doing those tours with you. Oh, that's right.

Help me hook it up. Well here we are, fourteen years later. You know, it takes what it takes, right? Yeah. Um it's funny'cause back then I don't think I had no guests. I think I had Anthony Bourdain was the only like real guest that I had had uh time.

Yeah, he was two thousand eleven t as well. And and how many shows had you done by then? Not that many by then, I don't know. So were you just doing solo shows, just like covering topics and talking about it? Okay. We would just sit and Talk shit and then eventually your house or something.

So it looked nothing like this. No, no, no. It slowly had to get out it's like I had too many weirdos that I had to bring by my house and I have young kids at the time. They were really young. I was like, this is just too strange to bring these weirdos by my house. It was just too odd. I was like maybe sh some people shouldn't know exactly where I s right I sleep. Right, right. Yeah. And it's interesting'cause driving here, um

I was buried in my phone just you know, for for the right reasons. Um so I have no idea where we are. Good. So it was kinda like a the version of being blindfolded or with a s with a sack over my head, you know? Yeah, that's probably how we should do it. Can you imagine then like I'm the guy they're blaming for introducing this? Just put everybody in a blindfold and put them in the back of an SUV and drive them to an undisclosed location.

A few circles around in like some v you know neighborhood right over there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um but we did it. We're here.

That those things that you did with Russell Peters were so fascinating. It was the whole thing was so fascinating. I watched the Netflix thing. I watched the first episode. And The h the the whole experience of watching the guy from Platoon, the guy that everybody knows is like this gigantic super cool movie star, hot shots, all these different things, to watch you just

go off the rails with drugs, but like be super open about it. You like the first guy super open about it. You know, and everybody just embraced Instead of it being like, Oh, Charlie Sheen's doing drugs, that's so sad, it was like we love him. Keep going. It was kind of crazy. Keep going. All the tiger blood stuff and winning. Everybody was saying winning all the time and it it What was that like for you?

Was it the worst kind of reinforcement? Or wa or did it let you like w were you surprised by it? That's a great way to describe it. It was it it is yeah, I i the worst kind of reinforcement. Yeah. It was like uh s unintentionally or otherwise celebrating uh the the the d a guy's demise. Right. You know, and and and I guess the the the train wreck was so spectacular that or it was such a spectacle.

that they couldn't turn away. But they were also being invited in to to follow it down the tracks. Yeah. You know, a and and somebody asked me about it and and and I you know, I don't know if I was the conductor or if I was riding the caboose or both simultaneously. Um it was a trip because thinking back on it

it's you know, some of it just kind of exists in in just Polaroid snapshots that kinda drift past through the mist, you know. Other other moments are in high def. But kind of seen through a tunnel.

Mm. It was I there was an energy or s it it was it there was an energy I tapped into that felt like I was playing a role. But I couldn't figure out what if it w you know, what the mov what the plot was who my co stars were. Where somebody, you know, somebody show up with like a jig page one rewrite. Right. That's what we fucking need, you know. Um, and it and it got away from me and and had it not been encouraged, I think it could have been curtailed, it could have been

shut down a lot sooner. Yes. Yeah. And there was something that and just recently something I stumbled on to, um It's um I was I was in in some way um I was being a bully.

It had a bullying kind of energy about it, you know, and I've never been that guy. How so how so I believe the way I was attacking people and the way I was challenging people, I was like a tough guy on the block and had all these soldiers, had this cold cadre behind me and it was like, you know, inviting people into the ring. I've never been in the ring. What are we doing, you know? You're on coke. That's amongst among total cocaine behavior. Among other things. Um

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Yeah, and and and I think um i there was a whole testosterone component as well that was um out of hand just out of control. Because there's you know, what do they recommend? Like a quarter size dollop and like every other day and No, I I there's a line in the book where I say I was I was slathering that that shit on like a fucking Ponds commercial. Oh, so you were using the cream? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, which is hard to measure.

It's not just hard to measure, it gets on other people. Oh. I read this story about this guy who is on TRT cream and his child started like showing signs of uh premature development. Oh. And they realized that this kid's testosterone level was through the root. Because it's through the dermis, right? It's through the skin. So he's getting it on his arms and then he's hugging his child and the kid is getting juiced.

Like what were the kids' numbers, did we know? We don't know. Like in the seven years. I don't think they released that. But they they said that it probably permanently affected the kids' development. Yeah. Wow. Because this kid is like experiencing puberty at three. You know, you're getting bombarded with testosterone while your dad is holding you. Insane. Insane. Is that part of the reason they recommend like an inner thigh?

I guess then the only person would get it is the person you're having sex with. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Right. It's probably good for the horse. Right.

So there was testosterone and cocaine together at the same time. That's that sounds like a combination of hubris. And a lot of rage. And a lot of rage. But the rage I think um it's it's interesting'cause when you finally get some distance from something you start to realize that that it wasn't really so much about what you said it was about in the moment. And I and I'm you know, really realizing it was

Wasn't about the job, wasn't about chuck, it was i it was about all the stuff in my personal life, you know. It was about n trying to just be be a certain guy at work, be a certain guy at home and then just never having the time to be a certain guy with me. And I just I just couldn't I couldn't find any place to to f find any refuge or solace or any type of just a moment to breathe to f just to

decompress, you know. That's so important. Yeah, and I there was a it's not in the book because I can't really I don't remember it well enough to put it in the book and that was kinda how I decided what's in there and what's not, right? Um Or or if something just isn't true, it's not in the book. And so um but it it um y you know, I was I was I was trying to f just kind of y you know, f like you know, I I I I went through two divorces and and had four children.

during d d d during that run of eight years, you know. And so, um That's crazy. It's insane, yeah. And and They both you know, they they fell apart for for for my reasons and whatever and and But d d there there wasn't time to heal the last one before the next one kicked off. And but that's all on me. You know what I'm saying? That's all on me making those decisions. That's one of the three lines in the book, is that it like really comes down to really

being all about choices, you know. Um but then um Yeah and and and and but it it's just T for for it to be just talking about the bullying stuff, you know, for it to be so so directed at a guy who let's like if you really break it down, what did he really do to me? he created this environment with a dream character in a in an in a in an amazing show, or so people tell me, right? Um that that that was

the you know, the toast of the town, right? And and all he asked from me was to just like, you know, just f show up, be responsible, know your lines, hit your marks, do your fucking job, you know. That th th those were the only demands. Essentially the stuff I told him before I took the job that I was going to do. So and then I turn it into that. You know, it it's really difficult to really look back on that and figure out

Why it got that far, how it got that far. I can help you out. Okay. Testosterone and cocaine. Yeah. It'll have you having all kinds of conversations with people in your head that'll tell you exactly what's What you're doing is correct.

Sorry, Lyon. Did you ever talk to Chuck? Did you ever like to talk about Chuck Lawyer? Yeah, no, it was yeah, no, that was I was really grateful we were able to do that. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, I was carrying that around for too long. Yeah. He hired me for a show he had a few years ago called Bookie.

with Sebastian Manascalco, right? Oh yeah, that's right. So I came in and did I played myself, did a few scenes, did a cameo, you know, did some fun stuff and just back on a set with Chuck and and it was like it was It just felt like it like it like it like it did in the in the early parts of the year. Yeah. That's that's awesome. Sorry I lost that thought earlier.

It's very reasonable. Here's the thing. I don't think anybody but Charlie Sheen knows what it's like to be Charlie Sheen. And In my estimation, there are a scant few people that have become massive superstars at a young age and came through it sane. I don't know anybody. Everybody mean I know people that have regained equilibrium and got their footing back and now they're on the right track and But no one gets through without a hiccup.

It's everyone kind of goes crazy because you're living in this completely alien world that no one can help you navigate. Even if you've watched the the people closest to you go through it your most of your life And like just like right over there. Yes. Like in the l in the next room. Right.

Right. Right. And a bunch of your friends. Yes. It doesn't matter. It's still bananas. It doesn't matter. It's still an alien world that you live in that no one that you run into during the day except the people like that can understand. Right. Which is like people are always like, Why do celebrities always hang out with each other? Well, because to them they're the only people that are normal. Yeah.

They're the only people that like I get it. I can't go to the supermarket either. I get it. I g yeah, I get fucking T M Zd at the airport as well. Right. It's like f it's normal. for them.'Cause everybody else is like, Wow, it's Charlie Sheen and they're just captivated. Like you kind of need to be around people that understand what that life is like. But the problem is they're all going crazy too. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's not um I mean it's it's a it's a it's a great support group.

Um to a degree. You know what I'm saying? I think you can rely on them for the things that you have in common. Right. But maybe take the more complicated shit just Right across the street. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you can't rely on them for everything. No. Because they're going through it too. Can I just get a tissue? Yeah, sure, sure, sure. Jimmy, you got a box?

No worries. Getting sweaty. Is it hot in here? Turn the A C on. No, I'll tell you exactly what happened. I got I lost that thought and then I tried to cover and then I realized this is he's not buying this and then I started sweating. And I started fucking sweating. So I'm just gonna lose th it's normal, man. Just say you lost your thought. It's all good. It happens all the time. It happens to me too.

Why is that though? Is our brain already trying to figure out the next thing that's going to attach to it and by doing so it took that the main thing and just dismissed it? Perhaps. Okay. It's also brains are just not that good. Huh. You know. They're they're pretty good compared to chimp pansies and dogs and stuff like that. But you know, they have a lot of issues. Okay. Just like what you're talking about, your memory.

Like my ma uh my memories of my whole life are like a series of blurry snapshots. That I can go, Oh yeah, then we went there. Oh yeah, that happened. Right. Oh yeah. There's very few memories that I have that are like rock solid memories. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I totally get that. And there's a little thing in the book where I talk about memories are tricky. Mm-hmm. And is it the is it a story someone told me?

Is it is it is it me in that moment or is it a is it a you know, uh a crease photo I saw in an old album in the s seventies or eighties. Mm. Is it was the memory given to me or or did I did I create it? Right. Yeah, and there's also the the real possibility that you have false memories and people do that all the time. And p they've they've even shown that they can introduce memories into people's minds and and then with enough

sort of uh encouragement or revisiting it, that person will accept it as a a pure memory. Yeah. And they'll they'll talk about it. Like outside of that and they'll have no knowledge that it was a false memory. Wow. Yeah, because it's just not a good system. It's a system designed to keep you away from scary things.

Like there's the wolf. Oh, get away from the wolf. You know wolves are bad. Oh, I remember. I remember wolves are bad. That's the spider that's poison. Get away from that spider. That's spider that's poison. But like day to day uh every day normal shit It's like how much of a memory does it really need to keep? It's just your brain's just not that good. And then and then even in and then so do certain do um certain memories then get overlaid

with um a a a newer version of that okay. Yeah the narrative And you and you start repeating the memory and your memory becomes of you repeating the memory. Wow. So it's like you don't even really have the memory anymore. You have you know how to say it. Okay. Didn't that happen with um with the that one Kaczynski witness? Did it? With the unibomber witness? Yes. Interesting. Yeah, because that's why the first uh composite that was put out really uh ultimately wound up looking nothing like

the actual guy. Oh, interesting. Yeah, there was a thing that yeah, there was a thing where Her memory was corrupted by a different description from somebody else. This episode is brought to you by Paleo Valley. It is not easy finding a snack that's healthy and tastes good, but that's where Paleo Valley's 100% grass-fed beef sticks come in.

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Well, there's also the factor that the unibomber was such a traumatic event that this person was probably super freaked out. Which is when your memory's the worst. Interesting. Yeah, that's why eyewitness accounts of like murders and chaos, they're really bad. Right, right. They're really bad. Very unreliable. There's some really really

awful percentage about what even when they wind up in a in a courtroom. Yeah. Like the like the determining y like the final nail from the person, that guy that it's like sometimes it's as high as like Sixty percent that they're just wrong. And then you know it's just Traumatic events leave you you're in a high state of anxiety and you're not thinking clearly. Right. You're freaked out. And you don't like when when they have events like like say like nine eleven.

Um if you were anywhere near that. And you saw like people jump off the buildings and and fall to their deaths or like your memory's of that are probably really clear'cause it was fucking crazy. Right, right, right. But your memories of people that you might have saw that were running away, or maybe you saw a guy in a van and you looked fishy, or maybe this or maybe that. It's like

And then a few days go by and you're you probably haven't slept well, you're all freaked out. Your memory's probably a mess. It's probably filled with the news now and then there's other people's eyewitness accounts and and you know, you don't know what the fuck happened. Right.

Our m you know, this is one of the scariest things about transhumanism. is that it's really appealing in the idea that uh they give you a little hard drive in your brain. And now from now on, every time you want a memory, you can go just like you know, you look on your phone, like your iPhone on this day in 2017, you're like, Oh, look at us. Look, that's cool. You're gonna be able to do that in your brain.

You know, and the way that we're gonna buy into it is because our memory sucks. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, I mean do you remember your phone number when you were a kid? Um no, but I remember my address because it rhymed. That's nice. Yeah, it was seven two one two Birdview Avenue Malibu. Well you used to remember your phone number. What happened? It goes away because your memory sucks. Right. I I I I know my parents' number because they still have a landlock.

Oh, they're still rocking the landlord. Yeah they are. Yeah. And they have an answering machine. Whoa. Yeah. That during dinner they haven't really turned it on. Oh, and then people start talking in the background? Yeah. But it's just part of it. It's part of the rocket a landline with an answer machine in twenty twenty five. That is Yeah. It's probably the way to do it.

I used to love the answer machine. Would you come home the light would be flashing like someone likes me. Right. Somebody called. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was cool. It was like you had a dog coming home to wait like to to visit you when you came home. Like, oh look. It's like in Deuce Bigelow when it's like he's at his lowest point, and the thing in the light is never blinking. I forgot about that. You have no no new message.

Yeah, that was a wild time where you could get phone calls. That's the other thing is like you got famous before the internet too. Which is a different world. It's a different world'cause there's not that many of you. There's way less famous people. There's way more famous people now. Yeah. You got famous like super duper famous at twenty one years old with no internet. Trip out, yeah. I know. How does anybody expect you to come out normal?

Jesus Christ. And and it's and you try you can't really even explain to someone that that that that wasn't around during all that. You can't really explain what it felt like'cause they they look at it as the things that were missing. And and there there wasn't anything missing. Right. It was about having to really be engaged in everything you were doing. You know, you had to show up to to to to y you know, uh to gain t to to to get a light.

you had to enter the building. Right, right. You know, you had to sh go to on a talk show. You had to attend a junket. You you know what I'm saying? And you could and nobody knew Nobody knew what the behind the scenes of your movie looked like until, you know, years later on the D V D feature or or the VHS feature that they finally saw some of that stuff. Yeah. It wasn't it wasn't all all all access.

And for some people they can't leave it alone. They they have to live stream during the day. They're live streaming from their trailer. They're live streaming on in their car on the way home. They're like Yeah, what is that about? They're nuts. They're just locked into this weird new world that we're living in. But is it I mean, is it because there's genuinely people that are tuning in with enthusiasm that are looking forward to that live stream in the car ride home?

Or because the person f or is it a combination? I think it's those things and it's also that thing that you said that you didn't ever get, they're scared of. You didn't ever get alone time. Just just time to decompress and think. Just be by yourself. No phone, no T V, just fucking sit on the couch and just like cat catch your breath. Right. And they don't want that. That's they're scared of that. I like that. So they're just constantly engaged with something.

I like entire days of that. Ooh, that's nice. Alone on the couch. Yeah. Watching T V That's nice. It's nice to just shut off, right? It really is. It's uh all work, no play. Not good. Not good at all. Not good. Bad for you. And bad for your work too.'Cause it makes you just kind of it gets dreary. You don't you don't have the same enthusiasm for you know it's like you need discipline but you also need

You know what I was gonna say earlier. Thanks. Okay. All right. The memory just you know, uh j d dropped another uh token in the in the in the slot. Um Is that uh now no, it's you know it doesn't even connect. It doesn't? Um Let's find out. Well no, that then I I actually forgot it again. How about that? Is that fucking nuts? It's normal. It's normal.

When you um when you first got platoon, did you have any idea like what the fuck was gonna happen? I didn't. I didn't for for people today to to understand how big that movie was. 'Cause it was it was one of the very first realistic war movies. And I think very importantly it was done by Oliver Stone, who was actually a veteran of the Vietnam War. You remember?

that that piece. Yeah. I'm not I'm not gonna I'm not gonna forget it again. Okay. Pardon. Sorry. But that it was it was a different kind of war movie, you know? Yeah, it um much in the lines of your dad's movie. Yeah. You know, and that that was a very different kind of war movie as well. Yeah, Apocalypse from here, Platoon. You know, boots on the ground. Mm-hmm. Um The script didn't read like it was going to be a masterpiece. The the script read um Like it like it. Kind of like a docudrama.

Sort of movie of the week. It didn't you didn't read that script and say, Oh wow, okay, yeah, this is the one. People are gonna really wow, they're gonna worship this thing. It didn't the dialogue was very clipped and very um Very specific. Um it it you kinda never really knew where you were in the script, in the scene descriptions. You know, it it the script was so lean, I think it was like barely a hundred pages. Really? Yeah. Um so but I i I I I didn't realize sort of um what what

we were doing until we were actually doing it. Usually I can read a scene and get a sense of, you know, what my responsibilities are gonna be or how we're gonna break it down or at least you know, how how I'm gonna see it on the screen? And I couldn't I couldn't do that with Platoon because all the terrain, all the scenes, everything kinda felt Very similar, you know? Really? Yeah, and the original title was The Platoon.

You think it's a as big a hit if he keeps the the Yeah, I don't think it matters. It's a great movie. Thank you. But we started to feel it as as we got deeper into it.

And and and Oliver did something brilliant where he he decided to film it in continuity. Like from page one, day one, all the way to the final day was the final page. And that and that gave us a chance to like When something was finished, you were done with it. And and you didn't have to know how you were gonna react or how you already reacted to something that hadn't happened yet. Right. And when people died in the movie, they got sent home.

So they were just like the next day they were just gone. I guess he wanted us to feel that sense of just someone yeah gone, that loss, that that you know, sadness. Yeah. Now I'm not saying that I I would know how that felt in the real thing, but we bonded really

You know, pretty pretty tr y d yeah, we were bonded in a way that um because w we we were the only people that we had in the middle of that country, in the middle of that jungle, in the middle of that movie. Um so you really missed somebody when they were suddenly gone.

I would love to ask I mean I've had Oliver on a couple of times but I would love to ask him what it's like to make a movie about a war that he was starring in and like what kind of Bizarre mental conflicts. Yeah, d d he didn't get into any of that stuff when you're talking about it. Not really. I mean he talked a little bit about his experience in Vietnam, but I don't think we really talked about did we ever we talk about m the making of Platoon?

We got so heavy into the JFK assassination we hardly covered anything else. Especially the last time he was on. The last time he was on was on they were doing that Showtime JFK document. It was a Showtime thing, right? Wasn't it? I think it was, yeah. Where there was a multi part piece that he put together. I saw it. Yeah. His recall is insane. It's insane. It is. You have a conversation with him, he's pulling up dates, he's got no bo I mean, how old is Oliver at this point in time? Um

upper seventies? I just turned sixty. So if he was seventy eight seventy years old rock solid memory. I mean rock Solid. Wow. The dude was just pulling up dates and names and Alan Dulles did this and Wow. Harry Ann well it was just like the the entire Warren Commission report is like citing different passages in it and t It's bananas. That's deep. Yeah. Wow.

For sure. Right. Right. There's a lot of nonsense with the autopsies. There's a lot of nonsense with the single bullet going through both him and Connolly and It's like bullshit. The story's filled with bullshit. And no one really knew how much bullshit it was until um they had that video that they played.

The Zapruder film on the Geraldo Rivera show. Yeah. When Dick Gregory came on and who was a comedian, which was pretty wild, came on and had the footage of the Kennedy assassination. Everybody sees Kennedy's head go back and to the left and you look. And you immediately apply just Yeah. You know, especially anybody who's sh who's ever fired a weapon. Also it clearly looks like he got shot in the chest too. Like when he grabs his neck. There's the autopsy in Dallas that says it's an entry wound.

Interesting. Yeah. Two different autopsies. Yeah. And it also looks like by the time they got to Bethesda, they kind of glued his head back together again. Or at least put the pieces back to take a photo of it. It's like more was missing from what they were talking about in Dallas than the Bethesda. That's the shot where the gloved hand is like looks like it's pointing. There's a great book called Best Evidence.

by David Lifton and he was an accountant and they he had some sort of an assignment involving the Warren Commission report and so what he decided to do is read the entire thing. And so in the reading of the entire thing, he finds so many contradictions, so many things that don't make any sense. that he starts becoming upset.

And then he finds out how many people who are witnesses to the assassination wind up dying mysteriously. Right, right, right. Off the charts. Like ninety five percent of them? All those people that were hanging around like a j giant Ton of'em died in car accidents, weird fucking who was the guy in the train tower? Guy named Bowers, right? Who is Bowers? He was the guy that saw Badge Man, he saw people behind the knoll, he saw the exchange of the rifle, he saw all the shit. He died uh

I think he had a heart attack on a train track and then Of course also got hit by the train. I could be wrong but it was one of those types. But of course. Yeah. And then but uh wasn't it what was the who who's the guy uh who's standing at the when the curb explodes like near the underpass? Oh yeah, that's the guy that's the reason why they ha had to come up with the magic bullet theory. Is that Teague? No, what's his name? I don't remember. Did he die weird?

Probably but he was hit with a ricochet. They knew that the overpass that's why they had that adds a bullet. Yes. They had to add that and they go, Okay, how do we fix this? Right. It's only three shots, so how do we come up with a a reasonable excuse and they came up with a magic bullet. Yeah. Yeah. Specter, you know. I think it was our own specter. Yeah, I think it was his idea.

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They just bullshitted people. But back then you can get away with that. And you see all the additional cameras, like Babushka Lady for instance, right? And and all that stuff. Confiscated and never yeah. Well they had the Zapruder film for a long time. I think Time Life had it. And then somehow or another Dick Gregory got it. Was it ever released with missing frames? Wasn't there the jump cut when he goes behind the

the sign and then it jumps'cause they didn't they take out the the the fatal head hit at some point and then tried to sell that? Perhaps. They probably did at one point in time. Um but now obviously you could see the whole thing. And then it's also been AI enhanced. I don't know if you've seen the AI enhanced one. I haven't no

It's grisly. It's gruesome. I mean I I think he was shot from multiple angles simultaneously. That's what I think. I think he was shot both from the back and from. And I think Lee Harvey Oswald, if he wasn't involved, he certainly wasn't innocent. He he was probably the guy that they were gonna frame it on. Right. But I think he was in on the whole thing anyway. And I think he killed a cop afterwards as well.

Tippet? No, what's his name? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever read that thing about um'cause uh Tippet's nickname back at the precinct? was J F K read this thing? Then they show the side by side of how much they really look like each other. Really? So they're saying he was the body they used for the transfer when they flew with the empty coffin, you know, all that stuff about yeah it's

I mean it is so there's so many just r you know, warrens to travel down and and there's so many angles to explore. There's too many. There's so many rabbit holes to go down. We were introduced to it as kids. 'Cause Dad played both Kennedy. So we were seeing documentaries at like, you know, I would have been ten or eleven, Emilio was thirteen or fourteen. And so we've been involved in this thing for a lot longer than we should have been. Wow. Yeah. We had access to this stuff.

We don't want to think that they get away with things like Killing the president. But they did in broad daylight. Yeah. Yeah. And blaming it on a lone gunman. A lone nut. Yeah. Yeah.

Who who they already had a full description and and and rapture and rundown and everything about like they knew. And then the Jack Ruby thing. Or Jack Ruby goes completely insane in jail after he's visited by Jolly West, who is the head of MK Ultra, who is like routinely dosing people with acid. Yeah. He cooked Jolly he golly Jolly West cooked Jack Ruby's brain in jail. And just left him insane. He's the guy from um

What's the book that it's actually read Chaos before it got all the attention. Really? Yeah. Um friend of mine gave it to me and I was and I alright, I'll I'll I'll read a couple of pages and I was like, Oh Yeah. Oh okay. This is this is yeah, this is one of the best books. Yeah. But I'm curious how you felt about the documentary they did about it.

I didn't watch it. Okay. I I thought it was gonna be too quick. Uh ninety minutes. I didn't think was like enough time. It's only ninety minutes, right? I thought it was the first episode. Oh, you're not going to be able to do that. And kind of just seeing where the what the director's doing and what kind of stuff they're laying out early. Yeah. So and then when it ended and I didn't see that

Second episode with the timer, right? Uh huh. And I was oh that's and I thought it was a complete uh I th thought it d radically underserved the book. Yeah, maybe they could try again. They need to that needs to be like an eight. part two hour a piece series. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, because It's so nuts. The story is so nuts. Yeah. Just the provable actual fact.

are so nuts that very likely Charles Manson was a CIA asset. Very likely they had groomed him when he was in prison and taught him mind control techniques when people were high on acid, taught him how to be sober but pretend he's on acid and how to interact with these people that are on acid.

and shape their mind and even get them to commit murder. All of which is fac Yeah no it it's it's it's a I would say it's insane, but so much of it is I don't want to say provable, but but but but has enough supporting evidence to make a compelling case. And I love that the guy starts out just like a Yeah, y you know, just a kind of a normal celebrity assignment for Premier Magazine, right? Yeah, I've been on that magazine. I had that cover twice. My story didn't wind up like that.

Story for a magazine and it was just about the anniversary of the murders. Exactly. That's it. That's what it was. Yeah. You know, just give us peace, you know, so people go, Wow, crazy, twenty five years later. Wow. Right. Yeah. And then he gets obsessed. And he starts realizing, Well, this guy was full of shit and that guy was corrupted. Oh my God, look at this and hold on.

Who's Jolly West? You know, like what's MKUltra? This is real. Freedom of Information Act. Get the documents. Oh my God. Operation Midnight Climax. The the government was running whorehouses? They were running whorehouses and using two way mirrors and dosing Johns and filming them. And this has to do with Manson? Like what what the fuck was going on? Yeah. And then you realize that it was all uh a a a psyop to try to demonize the peace, love and stop war movement.

And that what they really wanted to do was stop the anti war movement and do something to curb the cultural change that was happening. And so their strategy was to turn hippies into murderers. It kinda works. Yeah. It kinda works. Yeah. I mean it's a long way to go but it uh I think it had the effect they were looking for. Imagine if they didn't do that. Like what kind of cultural change would have taken place? Because if you think about

What what happened between nineteen fifty and nineteen sixty? It's like the world becomes a different place in ten years. Between nineteen sixty and nineteen seven This world is crazy. The music is crazy. The culture is crazy. The movies are nuts. Everything is wild. It's very psychedelic. And then Nixon comes along in nineteen seventy, passes this sweeping Schedule One Act, makes all mushrooms and LSD, makes everything illegal, all to stop the civil war.

m the civil civil rights movement and the anti war movement at the same time when they're doing this Manson stuff. So it was a concerted effort across the board to stop the anti war movement and to stop the civil rights movement. They were like, We're losing control and power and so I mean it was an evil thing to do, but you kinda gotta give him credit'cause it was pretty brilliant.

Like they i they actually pulled it off. You think of serial killer, you think of Manson. You think of the family. Oh my god, these hippies are murderous. A bunch of murderous freaks on drugs, cutting women's babies out of their stomachs and writing pig on the wall. This is nuts. And our own goddamn government engineered it. They engineered they stopped What was probably one of the most beautiful cultural shifts

in this country's history. That would have organically still kept evolving into other things that would have would have blossomed out of it. Yeah, we probably would have rethought government. We probably would have like rethought the type of people that we want as leaders. We would have rethought our involvement in foreign wars.

There would been no support for it. We would have rethought what psychedelic drugs can do for you versus uh the bad aspects of them. We would have rethought everything. We would have re re we would have The music would have been a lot better. Music took a big dip. Yeah, it did. Music took a big dip after they got rid of the drugs that were good and brought in the coke.

But people do point to the death of the sixties uh v occurred up at Cielo Drive. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, it was effective. Yeah. I mean that that d completely demonized any peace, love and You know, any of that kind of movement, th those people became a real problem now because you're now connected to Mansa. It was instantly zero tolerance. Mm-hmm. Like overnight. Kind of nuts. Yeah. Kind of nuts that it it it was really all engineered by the government.

You know, it's a really that in itself in and of itself is a r a terrible crime. that they they sort of engineered society to their benefit so that they could maintain control. And the way they did it is by getting a a a horrible con who had been in and out of jail his whole life and teaching him how to run a cult. Right. Right. A murderous cult. And setting up at a free clinic in the hate. Where my wife's mom went. Oh. Yes. My wife's mom was a hippie.

My wife's mom went she was a hippie in Hayed Ashbury and she went to the Hate Ashbury Free Clinic. Treated at that clinic. That clinic would have been running for over fifty years. So it ran till like twenty twenty two? Yeah. R when did it close? It closed shortly after that book came out. I could have gone there while I was reading the book. Yes. The CIA was just a running treatment clinic. What a trip.

So nuts. And that clinic also connected to Jolly West. That clinic also connected to all sorts of other marijuana experiences. San Francisco is where they were doing Operation Midnight Climax. That's where they had a brothel.

These are the people that are supposed to be like protect and serve. Look out for your best interests. These motherfuckers are creating Manson and like completely shifting society. And turning people into whatever the fuck we c became in the seventies and the eighties. The book came out june twenty fifth, twenty nineteen. Yeah. And the clinic closed July twenty nineteen.

Seriously. Yeah. One month later. Like, fuck. We're we got busted. That dude read the foreword and was like, guys, we got a problem. Uh yeah, they that's probably how long it took them just to clear the building out. Yeah, exactly. And try to figure out whether they're gonna kill Tom O'Neill.

H has he been on the show? Yes. Oh wow, okay. Yeah yeah yeah. What's he like? Is he great. He's great. He's actually my good friend Greg Fitzsimmons. He was his neighbor in New York. Okay. When he first started working on this. And then he became his neighbor also in Venice. Like he's been his neighbor for like twenty years.

So Greg's followed him for this entire journey. And Greg had been telling me about it for years. I'm like, When's your friend gonna get that fucking book done? And then finally he says Tells me the whole story, how it took so long, why he's like, You gotta have him on. The book is insane. I'm like, Let's go. Wow. So we had him on and it was

Incr uh first of all I listened to the book first before I had him on. I listened to the audio version. I was like, this is nuts. This is nuts. If this is all true, this is fucking insane. And it's all true. So they really did engineer a a murderous cult of of hippies. And and almost used um the clinic um as a as a casting couch, as as an audition process for which girls they thought would be the mo the most um moldable, vulnerable, yeah crazy. Yeah. The CIA was doing that.

I thought they were supposed to just operate on foreign soil. I know they were, but you know This episode is brought to you by Simply Safe. You shouldn't have to stress about keeping your home and family safe from intruders on top of everything else going on right now. So don't. Take a load off with Simply Safe. It's been named one of the best home security systems by US News and World Report five years in a row. They're always striving to do better and unlike traditional security systems.

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You you talk to like your average boomer who just watches uh cable news and reads the newspaper, they're they'd never believe this in a million years. And they'll hear us talking about it thinking, Come on, guys, Come on. And but they but they but they also will never read the book.

No. Never read the book and then when things get proven they never apologize. Imagine that. Never apologize for your baseless conspiracy theories that all turned out to be true. Yeah. Because, you know, conspiracies are fucking real, okay? This this conspiracy theory pejorative that they really started foisting on the American public during the Kennedy assassination was for that very reason. They wanted to make it ridiculous for you to be interested.

That's where the term was coined. That's where the term became popularized. Apparently the term existed before that. We we we researched this, right? Didn't we uh Google the original term of conspiracy theorist. It's quite a bit earlier, but it was never like a thing in the public zeitgeist. It became a thing during the Kennedy assassination because a lot of people were

You know, everything i d even the people that hadn't seen the Zapruder film, everything just seemed off. It seemed off. And there was rumblings amongst people that were there that there the big one was the shots from the grassy knoll. Many people talked about gunshots. And that one photo where there's like fifteen people pointing to the same spot. And you see smoke near where the the bushes are. And it's not a good photo, but it's good enough. Right. You go, hmm.

It's just too r it was too uniform. You know, people were they all were pointing. We heard shots from back there. There is a thing that does happen.

Um especially if you look at Daley Plaza have you ever driven through? I have. Yeah. I've I've I've walked the whole crime scene. It's weird to be there. First of all, it's so little. It's you can't believe how close everything is. It's real little. And that they but that they sent him into that tight turn and put him into that pickle jar. Completely planned. And you watch the motorcycle cops drop back. Uhhuh.

Which is there's there's something I read, um did you ever read um The Man Who Killed Kennedy? I think it's uh Jim Mars. Do you remember Jim Mars? Yeah. Did you ever have him on? No, I didn't. Oh okay. He's he's did he pass? I think so. Yeah. Yeah. He wrote Cy Spy. which um was in it all about remote viewing. Oh Yeah, yeah. He's a trip. He was deep into everything. I go back and forth on that remote viewing I do too. I do too. But um there's something in one of his books, um

And I've never been able to find it anywhere else. It's almost like this little detail was scrubbed from the internet that the the Morse code signal for victory um right after the fatal headshot went out over every Dallas police rating. Have you ever heard that? No. Okay, I read that. I this is disclaimer. I'm not coming up with this. This is not m my original data. Um but yeah, when I read that, that was that was just that was creepy.

And I don't know that he would have just added that for color. That's not something you just throw out there. Yeah, that's that's a weird thing to add.

Well, a lot of people hated Kennedy back then. It's hard for us to reconcile now today because we think of him as like one of our greatest presidents. Of course because he got murdered. We always love him after they get shot. Sure. But when he was alive this this was like half the country fucking hated And then there was the Bay of Pigs disaster where we lost a lot of people because

Kennedy didn't give him air support. He wasn't told about the invasion until like last moment and air support was crucial to its success. He denied air support. A bunch of people died that weren't going to die. Right. And so those guys on the ground I my friend Evan has a theory. My friend Evan who owns Black Rifle Coffee who was a ranger himself. I met him. He's the best. I love him. Good dude. I love him to death. Um but he said like those guys, those are hard nosed killers.

And if they think that they lost their brothers because this fucking piece of shit didn't give them the air support that they deserved, it was Kennedy's idea and you tell'em that you want to get that guy killed, like, oh fucking sign me up.

Those guys would do it. Interesting. He's like those would be the type of guys he would have do something like that and they would probably tell you this would be a perfect place to do it. Right, right. That tight little turn. Yeah. Anyone who says, by the way, because

Conspiracies get everybody gets binary on this one way or another. I believe this or I believe that anybody says that Lee Harvey Oswald couldn't make that shot has never shot a rifle. You're full of shit. If it the rifle's on, it was not that far. I'm not saying he could do it a hundred times out of a hundred. Right. But the possibility of him having that rifle ready, he's got a scope, he's got a rest. The the the car comes into view, you roll the sight onto his back, you squeeze off around.

Squeeze off round, whack and you get a headshot in there. That's a hundred percent possible. Sure. I just don't buy it. Right. I don't buy it. I don't I don't think he acted alone. If he did do it, he might have done it. He might have shot at him. He might have even hit him once. There was other people. There was he was the Patsy, and I think when he said, I'm just a Patsy, the way he said it was not like a guy who murdered somebody.

The way he said it was like I can't believe they set me up. Exactly. Like So I think he was in on a bunch of it. Sure. I just don't think he pulled the trigger. Right. Or if he did pull the trigger, he was one of many people that pulled the trigger. That's what I think. Yeah. But there was a lot of other people saying, Oh, he could have made those shots'cause the rifle scope was off

That's you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Because I could get your rifle scope to be off in five seconds. Okay, if your rifle scope's perfect is it's zeroed in, bang, I drop it on the ground. Try it again. It'll be off by six inches at two hundred yards. You're gonna move that thing. It's they're fragile. They're they require micro adjustments.

Little Allen wrenches and hex keys and shit and people they don't torque'em too much. You get it dialed in perfect. On a on a thirty seven dollar rifle. From the back of a magazine. Yeah, of course that thing can get knocked off. Easy. Right. Like almost instantly you can knock that thing off. There is a thing about the tree though.

What about the tree? Because what they've done in a lot of the reenactments um yeah, you know, supporting that he was the lone gunman, um they they did uh cut out part of the tree that Kennedy's behind. They cut it out for the reenactment? Yeah. Hm. But he had a clear view field of view for at least a brief amount of time. Sure. And that's all you need. Sure. That's all you need if you were good. And if you practice. And I'm assuming that if you're gonna go shoot the president

you'll probably get used to firing off a few rounds, you'll probably set up a target. You're not gonna just hope that your accuracy is still there from three years ago. Yeah. You're gonna practice. Yeah. So if you're gonna practice, you're gonna be even b e uh quicker at wrapping a new round. Sure. He could have done it. I just don't buy it. It just none of the evidence seems to point in that direction, including all the evidence that they try to fabricate. Like the magic bullet one is nuts.

Anybody who's ever shot anything with a bullet who looks at that and believes that went through two people and broke bones. Yeah. That looks like it shot got shot into a swimming pool. It doesn't look like it ever hit anything. No, and I've had people like you know, debate me and t taking the side of the magic bulletin. And like look me right in the eyes and d and believe it and I'm just like, Okay, well, cool. This is where we have to

Just they're out of their mind. Yeah, we have to walk away. Let's set up a bone from a cow and I'll shoot it at a hundred yards. One bone. Yeah. Just one bone. Just one bone. Yeah. And let's take a look at that bullet. Right. Yeah. It's not gonna look anything like that. And there's the fragments, there's missing fragments from the bullet that are in Connolly's wrist. that are more fragments that are missing from the actual bullet they're attributing to the wound.

But they did it. That's what's nuts. We can sit here and talk about it till the cows come home. Do you know about the palm print though? No. Oh, that um that they linked the rifle to Oswald because of a palm print.

On the colour, when it they went to visit'em in the morgue? Yeah, they didn't get it till after the autopsy. Yeah. Huh, it wasn't there and then surprise How convenient. Yeah. Yeah. And also like says who. Says who his fingerprint was on it. You could just say that back then. Nineteen sixty three. The government says we found a fingerprint. Oswald doesn't have a lawyer. No one's representing him. He's dead. Yeah. You know, no one's gonna say, My client is innocent. He's fucking dead. Okay.

Pin it on him, nobody gives a shit. And everybody just mourned the fact that the president was dead. And then You know, all of a sudden you got Lyndon Johnson full steam ahead with Vietnam War.

It's nuts. Yeah, if you usually look what uh look at what happens after the major event, it like it's things got very different. That's when you really start to see like okay, yeah. Oh Kennedy was trying to be a real president. Yeah, it was the Federal Reserve, it was Vietnam, it was like all these big, like really important. He wanted to do a lot of things. Yeah. And they were like, Not today, sir. Then that's the the real argument is that we haven't really had a president since Canada.

Everything after that has been the the president's been more of a a speaker. Interesting. And the interesting the the the giant machine behind it continues to run exactly as it always has. Ja, ich meine... And and uh just from where I sit, there's there's not a lot you can do about it. You could talk, but look if they haven't done anything about the Kennedy assassination, you can't.

No. You you you you could put pressure on people and you um you definitely can hurt their chances of getting reelected if people find out that they're very disappointed in you for sure not Yeah, but other than that, like Not much you can do. Yeah, that's why I don't really weigh in anymore. It's probably smart. It definitely is a lot of that. But it's also like a show.

You know, you could watch the show, Hey have you su heard the watch the latest episode of the Epstein Files? Like what's going on? Yeah. Yeah, it turns into it's kinda like a show. It turns into a parlor game also. Right. That's that's how my dad described the OJ case. Uh-huh. Right. You know? Boy, I remember watching that verdict on TV live in my apartment. With this girl I was dating, she was a really sweet girl, and she couldn't believe that he was innocent. Yeah. She didn't understand it.

She was so confused. Yeah, I didn't lie. She said it. She was like, No. Yeah. No. How? She just kept s she kept like putting her hands over her face. No. No. Yeah it completely torqued her her whole reality. Yeah. Yeah. I was on a on a mountain top in Mexico. Doing a uh ki kind of a d you know, low rent sci fi film called The Arrival. I love that movie. Don't say that was a low rent movie. I love that movie. to that movie.

movie? Dave Foley, Dave Foley who's a good friend of mine from uh News Radio. Okay. Uh when we were on News Radio together, he fucking loved that movie because this is a so underrated sci fi movie. I'm like, okay, cool. And I checked it out. It was great. Thank you. Thank you. It was it was the first um film that actually incorporated a mashup of puppets and CGI.

at the same time.'Cause it uh at that point it was either one or the other and and the other hadn't fully really arrived yet. Right. You know, yeah. Um, so that was kinda cool. But no, we were Um, I was so hoping for the day off to be back at the hotel'cause everybody knew the night before that the that the verdict was coming, right? So we had to shoot this scene and and there was a there was a prop man.

And he had the only this is ninety five, right? He had the only uh cell phone and it had like half a bar. And it's in and it's starting to rain. And he's got his ear and his his buddy's got his phone in LA up to the T V. when they're about to read the verdict. So we all gather around the prop man and we're watching him and he's kind of leaning to keep the signal, to keep it to kind of keep, you know, connected. And then we can see when he hears it.

He s he slumps a little bit, right? Takes the phone from his ear and slams it into the mud. And screams That motherfucker got away with murder. Wow. That's a wild scene. That's all I learned about the O J verdict. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow. And Dave Anderson was there with me. He's a buddy I grew up with. He's in the book. He's a he's a he's a two time Oscar winning uh FX makeup artist, you know, and so

Yeah, if you ever run across Dave the Rave, uh Anderson, ask him about the O. J. verdict. That's a cra just a crazy scene. Imagine a guy reacting like that. He was our only connection to it. Yeah. You know, and everybody was so invested in this And and it was really hard to go and that was like do you remember time of day that might have happened? Kind of late morning sort of, or was it in the afternoon? We still had a a pretty sizable day to shoot. And it was really hard to regain focus

Yeah. And feel like what we were doing still mattered. Yeah. Because there there there was a uh there there was a giant just there was like a murmur in the universe at that point, you know? Yeah. Like something it felt like something had been taken from You know? Yeah. Yeah, civility. Did you see the last um or the most recent uh O J documentary? No. It's um It's Murder, Mayhem, and Blood. I think it's got three Murder mayhem and blood? Yeah. Something I'm probably well.

Now No, it's actually it's uh the latest O J documentary. This d yeah, this is the one that that was before that and it and it's it's broken down at the crime scene by uh two like expert veteran uh recreationists. Yeah. It's it it's a trip. Do you do you do you watch any OJ stuff that comes out? No. No, I try not to. Because it's just too weird. No, I think he killed his wife. Yeah. And he killed Ron Goldman.

And he got away with it. Yeah. And it's just nuts. It's just you know, it's weird. You watch him on like naked gun and you're like, That guy? Yeah. That guy murdered his wife with a knife? Like what? Yeah. And then he got away with it and then he's just golfing. Yeah, it was the follow up part that didn't really support anything about what he had claimed. You remember when he was a rapper?

You remember the juices loose? You remember that? Oh gosh. I think I think I just will I willed that one out of my own. Like a King's Robon and like it was a bunch of hot ladies around him. Okay, it's coming back to me. Yeah, he made a rap song. Wow. Wow. Yeah, he was like embracing the heel roll at one point in time after the the guilty verdict or the not guilty verdict. Right, right, right. Yeah. And so he he got into like rap.

But I mean probably just just for d just for monetary gravity. I would imagine. Let me watch you play it. Play the juices loose. It's so bad. Oh my god. It's is it off of YouTube? That would be hilarious. Oh, that's right. He has like a prank show. He was trying to prank people. It's like pri pre uh

OJ was doing that? No. But he's a good thing. Everybody would just run away from the people. Yeah, he did it to a lady like walked up to her hotel room with a knife. Oh my god. That was one of his scenes? Jesus Christ. You got juice is what it was called. You got juice. You got juice. Damn. Also the music video had a bunch of uh that was yeah, it was aired on like uh pay per view. Spy remember the spice channel? Hmm. Yeah.

But that whole thing going from that verdict to trying going back to work. Oh my god. Look at that. I remember one time we were uh filming news radio it was in the middle of that North Hollywood shootout. Do you remember that? I do. Yeah. And we were watching it live on T V while trying to do a sitcom and we were like we probably should take some time off here.

There's a fucking war going on in the middle of North Hollywood. Wow. Yeah, that was I think that involved a lot of cocaine and steroids too. Uh y from the from the brothers. I know they were definitely on steroids. Yeah. But I think they were there was probably some or meth. Something like that. Yeah, I I think Myth would have kept them there for l a lot longer, yeah. For people don't know the story, these guys um did they h they rob a bank? Is that what they did? Yeah, but waited.

Yeah. Like could have driven away, could have left with all the all all all the dough. And they decided to get in a shootout with the cops and killed cops. Right? Yes. I mean and they got killed. A bunch of cops got hit. And the cops were like horribly outgunned. Oh yeah. Yeah. Kevlar helmets and f they had face masks. Yeah. Yeah. Now do you support that when the dude finally

kills himself that it was it a simultaneous sniper shot at the same time? I never even looked into that. Is that one of the concepts that you're going to do? He got shot and shot himself at the exact same time. At the exact same time. It's possible. But why would they like what does that Observe. Like what does that Maybe they were already gonna shoot him and he shot himself and they didn't think he was gonna shoot himself and they pulled the trigger right when he did.

That's what I would guess, if that's the case. But it's not like they have to be let off the hook because at that point that dude has to be put down. Yeah. I mean one of the guys had already been shot and he was shot in the leg and they didn't get him any medical help, they knew he was gonna bleed out. You know, I think

Yeah, the fur the first guy that says he died by s this is from Wikipedia. He died by suicide via a gunshot to the head from his handgun, simultaneously being hit by rifle fire from LAPD officers with one round striking and severing his spine. Whoa. The other guy got shot twenty over twenty nine times and died from blood loss. Wow. But I mean what are the odds that the Crazy That the thing with the Yeah it's kinda Well it sounds like there were a lot of bullets are flying in his direction

Like what is that weigh? Like if you're carting that around and you've got a whole duffel of cash. Yeah, you must have a heavy trunk. Yeah. Yeah, that is banana. Wow. Still. Imagine being in that m that neighborhood. Well the cops like went to a gun store, right?

Didn't they? I think they did. Like right when it started and they were like, Whatever you got. You know, give us your your biggest boar rifle, you know, whatever you got. We'll take it. Yeah. How much ammo you got? I mean, how long did that go on for? Uh about an hour. Wow. They had homemade body armor. SWAT team wasn't ready for that. They had to commandeer an armored vehicle to evacuate wounded people. Yeah, that was a that was kind of a that was a turning point moment.

Well this is the problem with conspiracies. People who try y uh attribute them to every Right. Everything's a conspiracy. Yeah, yeah. But then when they do that, they kind of um they they they they harm the credibility of the ones that that can really be You know, considered for for y you know for for the for how we know them to be. Yeah, after after all the extensive research. Yeah. No doubt.

Yeah, there's real ones. But I think that's also part of the thing reason why, you know, some really silly conspiracy theories get pushed. I think they get pushed by bots and I think they get pushed by paid accounts. To to water down the real ones. Yeah. To make yeah make them look stupid and they're like Attach them attach a really stupid conspiracy to a one that's legitimate. Right. And then it discredits the legitimate one. Yeah. It's almost like

you know, n not to introduce this, but just from afar, it's almost like the a lot of the QAnon stuff kind of had that effect just Yeah. You know. Um I didn't dig deep into that and don't you know and only know just the just the basic y y y y you know, talking points about it. But um but one thing I did see that was felt like a uh a constant was that

there was always uh th any time they'd mention something that was just completely screwy, it was followed up with the ones that that that we believe to be real. Right. You know, the there's just kind of this big Yeah, a stew of good stuff and bullshit. Exactly, yeah, and just just stirred that cauldron, you know. Yeah, that's a very convenient way to bury truth. The QAnon documentary on HBO was great. Uh Enter the Fire, that was it called.

I didn't see it. Into the storm. Oh okay. It's really good. Is it? It's a multi part thing on all the people that were involved in 4chan and the creation of Q Okay the original guy was and they think another guy took it over after a while and took over the account. Got it. And it seems like they were just kind of fucking around at first. But It's not definitive. Like he's got some really good evidence that points in that direction, but it's it's just hard to know.

And, you know, everyone always thought that it was someone inside the White House. There was some like secret person inside the White House. It doesn't seem like this documentary believes that. The guy who made this documentary. He pins it on one guy in particular that's a a tech nerd that seems to have all of the attributes of someone who could pull off a a Q and on type deal. Check out Yeah, check check everybody super smart.

You know, internet shit poster, you know, running 4chan, you know, and like That's the whole thing over there. It's like get people to do stuff that's stupid. Right. Like they got women to free bleed. They they started pushing this idea that you you know, it's uh the patriarchy's making you wear a tampon and you should just your menstrual cycle should just flow in your pants and who cares?

And this is like a sh a sign of your strong femininity. It was just them being crazy and then a bunch of women just adopted it. Not for long. Right. It's gross. They were like, This is stupid. Probably lasts a couple of weeks. But but a bunch of women but it's that's people are really susceptible. You could get people to do that. Not everybody. Right. But it's just like the Hate Ashbury free clinic thing. Not everybody's gonna do that. Right.

you know, lost children that come in through your doors. Well they're gonna need your legit services to start with. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. You gotta sort it out. Right. It's just n nuts that that that's our government. That's our our daddy. our our government daddies, the people that we're supposed to be looking to to help us lead a prosperous life and secure our standing in the world and make sure we f grow financially and these motherfuckers did all that. Yeah.

Yeah, well you know, uh ultimate power, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In any form.

Well they bringing it back to stardom. Like that's a weird power to get somebody. It's a especially when you're twenty one years old, like you are. Yeah. It's a weird power. Weird amount of freedom, weird amount of like people expecting you to be kind of wild. Sure. Yeah, and um again that thing you talked about where you watch it happen to others and then suddenly it's it's it's you. Um, it's uh it's it's it's a lot more

It's a lot more intoxicating. And then I would always think, okay, so why why how were they able to control it? Why didn't why didn't I see them enjoying it at this level? And it wasn't about I'm gonna show them the way they should have been doing it. It was just about, hey guys, okay, cool. No, it's it's it it it it finally made its way over here and and it it it can go to eleven

You know, and and and not burn the whole house down. You know, when it was still fun, when it was still creative and and and productive on some level. You know, um, because it wasn't about uh it was still having to show up and it was still y y y you know, carving out enough time for the party but also reserving enough Uh y you know, energy for the job. Right. You know, that's the balance. That's the balance. And some people could pull it off.

Some people they're really disciplined and they pull off the work And then they pull off the partying. Right, right. And I I was able to maintain that for for a long time. You know, and even when it flamed out like those early rehabs and and there was always like there was a job like the day I got out. Wow. You know, scripts showing up in rehab and it's like they're just they're just they they want you to get they want you to get well, okay? They want you to get better, but you know

As soon as you're out of here, you know, we got we got some good stuff for you to look at. There's also unfortunately a romantic notion of a guy getting out of reach. Interesting. Right. Interesting. How many cop shows start with a guy who's down on his dumps putting a pizza in a blender for breakfast? You know what I mean? Like really like at his lowest of low points. Right. drinking and then maybe his daughter cries and he throws the bottles into the trash can and is like, I'm done.

And now he's back. And there's a romantic thing to getting your shit together. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like Charlie's back. Better than ever. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And it's uh it's you know everybody's rooting for you again. Yeah. You know, and they and they and they're expecting Expecting the the the guy to deliver. Yeah, with passion now. Real life experience. He was a drug addict. Exactly. Yeah. Look at Robert Downey Jr. now. Right. Yeah.

But the same thing was happening to Downey when when he when when he was in rehab or maybe when he was even in the pen when they um w people were bringing him I think he was I think they brought him Allie McBeal. when he was still in jail. And I don't think I think he still got high after You know, and my dad would always be like yelling at the television. It's like stop rewarding his h this behavior. Stop rewarding it. Let him let him let him sit in those consequences.

Not out of judgment or out of punishment or p you know, just out of love, you know. To help him get his shit together. Yeah. If you keep letting them fuck up over and over again, they'll continue to fuck up. Yeah. Yeah. But if there's always a carrot the day you walk out, you know, something to something to chase and a and and and a soft landing. Yeah. You know? That's what was really interesting about this.

You know, this this this uh this decades decade long timeout that I got that I got put into, you know. Um which, you know, at some point the the punishment has to sort of fit the crime, right? Um and uh Yeah, it was it was it it felt like it had uh it was a little bit longer than it that than it should have been. Yeah. Yeah, I don't remember any murder charges, you know. Um but at the same time, um, there's not a chance that I that I could have d d d done the the two projects that I

that wow, the book came out yesterday and the doc comes out today, you know. Um I c I couldn't have done either un unless I had the kind of perspective and distant from all of that that I that I was able to to to get, to find, you know. You've been sober for how long? Seven years? Coming up on eight. Eight years. Yeah, I'll be eight in December. That probably helped a lot to be away from everything.

To for you to achieve that? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I was still doing things to y you you know, just kinda stay in the mix a little bit. And y you know, I do signings, I do speaking engagements, do stuff like that. But it was also like As soon as I quit drinking

All my kids started showing up again. And you know, Sam and Lola were living there and then they'd they'd they'd cycle back i with Denise and then Bob and Max would show up and then they Yeah, Brooke would come back and like okay, so he he's gonna be here and then Lola would show back up. So my house was kinda like it was kinda like this it was like a clubhouse.

You know? Um and I write in the book that my that that that my vacancy sign, y you know, f f for for those children um al always always hangs facing out, you know. So it was You know, being being called to a to to a much more responsible and complicated uh set of responsibilities and and and order, you know, and just having to do stuff that they'd they didn't care about you know, a a writing of a show or response to a movie or any like popularity or or I M D B

Uh y y y you know, stuff. They they were just like, you know, with their basic needs and getting to school and help with this and so it was really cool to like suddenly just be

that that's the only stuff that that that m that mattered to the people that matter the most. Mm. And so, um And and yeah, i i but you're right, that that none of that could've happened if I was away on location or having to be at a studio right every week or but um Yeah, I think it's I i w it was about the time that it that it created.

You know, so um and and it it's interesting that that I'm not I'm not like I'm not looking at this as a as a comeback, you know. Um it's uh it's a it's a I think it's a reset. I think it's a reset, you know? And I and I didn't I didn't um I didn't rely on anything that I'd done before. Never written a book.

Never done a documentary, you know? But to come back with two projects that um everybody seems to be really excited about. Documentary's very entertaining. Awesome. Thank you. It's very entertaining. It's it's it's really well done, like the way it's put together and it's just So the stories are fucking bananas. It's just so it's so bananas. It's the the whole thing was just so nuts.

You know, like I said, everybody loves the story of someone getting their shit together and uh that's a great accomplishment of being sober for almost eight years. It really is. Thank you.

Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, it's um people are gonna yell at me'cause of how I I deal with that w with the AA in the book and that's fine. I just speak to my personal experiences. I'm not I'm not How do you deal with it? Um that I I I tried it for a long time. I I for a combined twenty one years um and just decided that that I had to give this give this a go on my own. So you just do it completely on your own? You don't have any uh

person do you call or any d no. I mean there's people that that are sober that I still talk to and see. But you don't have a sponsor or something. I don't I don't no. No. Um I know it does help some people. Of course. And that's why I don't want to say that I d I'm not recommending that this is another putting You're just saying your truth. This is how you do it. I had a very good friend who was a alcoholic who quit. One day he

Crashed his car, ran from the cops on foot, got arrested, and then he's like, What am I doing with my life? I'm done. Hey, quit. Like that there. Then never had a drink again. I knew him for twenty years after that. It happens. It can happen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I but I I think that I that I do have the experience of all of that time in and around the room.

You know, and and and that's not to say that I don't still remember a couple of nuggets, a couple of things that still stuck with me that I still thought you still you still see as valuable. Right. You know? But um

It's there there's a there's a line in the book that it's it's it's it's hard to ask for help when when somebody else has raised your hand for you. You know, interventions. You're pulled into a thing, you're told to do it, and you're just all you're doing is just counting the days. Yeah, that's a part of the documentary too, when the the first intervention when you got brought into a room and everybody's sitting there waiting for you, you thought it was a party.

Well yeah, I mean I was a little suspicious because it's nine AM. Why is dad having a nine AM birthday party? Right. Unless we're going to Magic Mountain. Right. That's usually the time you leave. Right. But that's usually for a seven year old, right? Right. Um Yeah, no, that wa that was wild. Um that is something that I can still see as it happened on the day. Really? Turning that corner in the hallway into my parents' living room and like

And s my brain is still trying to turn it into a birthday party. My brain are insisted that that's what we're there for. You know? That's funny. And it just when it starts to dawn on you. Like have you ever taken a sip of something? that was in the wrong bottle, but your brain saw the label. Uhhuh. And so your m it takes your body Like a half a second. Yeah. To catch up to that's not those don't match. Uhhuh. Those don't match. Yeah. Um

Yeah, I have a story about that, but I probably shouldn't tell it on anywhere. But um yeah and So that one didn't work. It didn't work that way. You had to do it on your own. It it worked for a year. It worked for a year, but then like as is in the in the dock, I'm at I'm at you know Cage's house and I st I on on the anniversary, on the one year, I find that beer in his fridge.

Oh. I'm like, well that's there for a reason. You know, it's just caused us it's caused to celebrate. That's not an accident. Yeah, and just didn't even think twice. Wow. Just was like, ha, finally. Boom. And now we're off to the races. We're off to the races, yeah. Wow. How did you get sober this time?

I um I'd I'd gotten off the drug. Gotten off the dope. Well you when I say dope, that's always Coke. Never heroin. He was never never a heroin guy. I'd I'd been off that. Geez, probably over ten years, you know? So I mean o o o oh m more than ten years s like sitting here today. So I had I hadn't I hadn't fucked around with any of that shit for a few years. I was just I was I just committed to drinking, you know? And then found that to be like the most unmanageable

drug um that that I've ever tried to navigate. Drinking. Drinking. Yeah. Drinking More than cocaine. Yeah, because there's never a time when you can't Get it, you know. And and when I had made the decision that I okay, I'm just going to drink um I I treated it like like I did drugs, you know. Yeah. But it um It's it's it's it's it's really kind of i it's it's very accepted. And it's it's it's it's very socially ingrained.

You know, it's like it's it's it then you yeah, it's always mellow time. Yeah, you want to smoke a joint some in front of someone, they might be like, Hey, what do you think on here? Yeah. You want to have a drink in front of someone, completely normal. Everyone does it. Sure, yeah. Um But so um I I knew the way my body was starting to react and that the way I was starting to feel and and and just it it just I I I couldn't feel it how I used to, even at like really like powerful

doses, you know, I just could and that that that got depressing. That that wasn't like I'll just drink twice as much now. That was like, damn. The thing I relied on is now just like told me Yeah. Yeah. Our relationship is now different. Yeah. And so

There was a day and it's it's it's in the book and and I I you know, I was a morning drinker. I I loved uh you know, spiking my coffee.

That's like for me it was like the best time to drink. I mean you're not gonna get shit done the rest of the day, but that's when I felt it. When that's when I could still feel it was in the morning, you know? So I'm on like my third McAllen coffee or whatever and my daughter Sam like calls from sh she's at the house and calls and says, Hey, um, what time are we leaving?

To to go where. She had a hair appointment and it was a Sunday, I think, or a Saturday. And I've never, ever mixed uh the cups and the wheel. Ever. I've never had a DUI. How about that? That's awesome. That's pretty good, right? Yeah. I just m I just decided like a long time ago, like when I was like seventeen, that that was never gonna happen. Good for you. And I was living in a limo back then.

There was you know the occasional cab But these days, these days to get busted for drinking and driving with the available transportation Right. It is literally fifteen choices uh y in your hand. Right. It's there's no excuse. Right. And so I call I called Tony. I said, Tony, well you know, I can't drive. You gotta help me get Sam to this thing

And and so he was like, Oh uh I'll I'll be right here in twenty minutes. We got her to the appointment, it went great and there was s there was a moment in the car driving back.

And and um I I I describe it in the book, you know, and I c I could see her in two mirrors, the visor and and the side view. And she was just kind of sitting back there and I I'm not saying that I know exactly what she was thinking, but I could feel what I what I'm pretty sure she was and it was just this thing about um you know, why it's yeah, it's cool that dad did this, but why why isn't dad driving?

again. Right. You know, why why is there always disappointment? Yeah. And it's not nothing with Tony. Yeah, you know, he's been around forever and you know, and And and it was so we got we got back from that. And and and I and it was j there was something that I couldn't shake. It was something that stayed with me. Just the images This little thirteen year old kid in the back seat. And her dad can't even take her to like a just a basic.

Just like up the highway to a hair appointment. Like that that got that was complicated. You know? Yeah. And I was like, what am I doing? And then I I just sat inside I s sat inside of that for a while. because it didn't feel good. And I and I thought, okay, what can I do to not s to stop feeling like this? The math is pretty simple at that point, you know? And um yeah, I wasn't doing gonna do rehab, I wasn't gonna do a big dramatic

uh y you know, v the life uh turnaround or I was just gonna just make a decision and stick to it. Mhm. And, you know, I took a few volume, drank a few beers and then

Just woke up and said I'm done and didn't care. I didn't I made a decision. I wasn't gonna care how I felt physically. Was just gonna like just Grit and Barret. Yeah. How long did it take before you felt okay? About three days. The story I'd written that was gonna be a month was just like that that that that was fake and it was and so and then it just coincidentally, um it happened to be my oldest daughter, uh Cassandra's birthday.

when I quit. December twelfth, you know? It was just like, okay, that's all aligned. Um and then um then something else happened after that Because everybody's gonna get a little squirrely. Like it can put sh The problem with a guy like me is that And people like me is you're able to put things back together really quickly. Right. Right. And and kind of just kind of reassemble the pieces. So you're not as scared to go off the rails. Right, right, right. And um

And so then I got a call, um, this is the post y you know, already had HIV for for several years at this point. I get a call that there's a new medicine, right? This is about a month after the Sam thing, right? And they're like, look, we want you to try this thing'cause it's it's it's a much smaller cocktail, it's much less t toxicity and and of no s very few side effects. We think you're gonna do great on it, right? They said, but you can't drink.

The other one you could drink your fucking face off. Like like a you could you could drink like a pirate on the other one, which they shouldn't have told me that you can. You know? And so um so I said, Okay, great. So I tried that one and the it was w you know, it was working great. But they said, Okay, uh if you can just stay off the booze, um, it's gonna keep working the light, light, light, like it is, you know. So th this other thing showed up in addition to that like just

in in concert with it. So now I had a couple of things going on. You know, let's keep this thing, this this v uh evil stowaway, is what I like to call it. Let's keep that thing in the you know, at bay. Uh-huh. And and let's uh y y you know, re re rebuild every relationship that matters in your life, you know, while you're still here. Did you have a revelation after a while, after you were sober for a while, where Well you stop and think like why was I getting so fucked up?

Like what was I what was I trying to avoid or what was I trying to enhance or what what was the purpose? Like what was I what what bothered me so much that I couldn't be sober? Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Oh I think fr yeah, it it I I think it was more a void earlier. Like e or earlier in life, like avoid the pressures of fame, avoid the the fears of of commitment or relationship or or being uh exposed as a fucking fraud at some point, you know.

Um I think that was earlier um and I think enhance came later. that that um trying to just make situations f just feel more exciting or cooler or or more y you know, sexier or You know what I'm saying? Like yeah. But it's interesting that that you presented both sides of that. You know, avoid enhance. Yeah. Yeah. I I I I relate to both.

You know. Um Yeah, I think that's a good thing to tell people too because uh everybody wants to hear the drugs like Bill Hicks had a great joke about nobody ever hears uh great drug stories. Right. You know, you only hear the bad You know, and it is true. But the reason why people do it is'cause it's fun. Like it can ruin your life. But

It's also really fun. That's why people do it. Sure. This is the it's important for people to know because you don't want'em to think you're lying to them, you know, and for them to hear you sober and happy and go, Okay, that's possible. You can get there because this guy's admitting what getting high was.

You know, like there's a there's a scene in the documentary where you're talking about the first time you smoke crack where this girl's giving you a blowjob while you're smoking crack and it was like the greatest feeling of all time. St yeah. Like yeah. Like I think that's important to say. I I probably shouldn't say that. I don't care. I don't care. Yeah. That hasn't been tough. Have you ever heard Hunter Biden talk about cracks? I haven't no He was on the Channel Five show and uh he

gives this ode to crack that made me want to immediately go smoke crack. Seriously. Yeah, because Hunter Biden's a very smart guy. Um I don't think people think of him that way because of the laptop thing, but he's very intelligent. Right. And um very

articulate. So when he's explaining like the effects of crack and how different it is and how in incredible it is and the euphoria of it and it's like literally saying that he's like getting the itch while he sitting there sober you know working on his sobriety, trying to keep it together after all it publicly shamed for being out of control. and talent talking about crack like a lover.

that you lost in a d a drowning accident. Wow. It's it's crazy. I get that. I get that. That makes sense. I bet you do. There's a moment in the dock where I tell this the Sandy story. Yeah. And I say, Wow, that one actually got me kinda Yeah, I can feel that. Yeah. Yeah. Um That's the problem. The problem is it's That's the problem, yeah.

Did you and no you don't have to did did you ever try it or no? No, I never even did coke. Oh, you never oh nope. Okay. No, when I was in high school I have a good buddy of mine and his cousin was selling Coke. Okay. And his cousin who was super normal, I knew him forever, great guy. Super cool guy.

all of a sudden he became weird and pale and lost all this weight and it was like he got bit by a vampire. And him and his girlfriend were selling Coke and they would just watch T V and do Coke. Wow. And they had like this attic apartment. And it was like he had gotten bit by a vampire. That's how it felt like to me. It was like he just l lost his whole life to coke. And then I saw some other kids that had coke problems around me where they were just dying to get coke.

And I was like, This is a bad drug. And back then I think it was actually Coke. You know? I don't even know if at least they like eighty percent of it, yeah. In the nineteen eighties, I don't know if they were cutting it with anything. But I made a decision at one point in time in my life, no, I don't want to have nothing to do with that one. That one seems to rob people's lives. Yeah, it just seemed to me like that one can make you a loser.

And then did you roll in circles over the years where it was prevalent or or I knew some people that that get did coke and Never worked out well. I didn't know anybody who did Coke who like kept their life together. Everybody who did Coke was like barely together, barely hanging on, always off the rails.

One guy out there, some superhero, we teach it together. Oh yeah. I think he I think he's like the only guy. Right. I mean do we know of anybody else? Well, they might might not be public about it. Right. You know. But what about the rumors that that that Jack always traveled with like a doctor? Heard this shit? Have you heard these stories? No. No? No. Oh yeah, that he had a doctor that tr that d that carried his Coke or distributed it.

And only gave him just the just what he needed. Oh. Yeah, no, I don't know. I mean, that's a movie star shit right there. Exactly. You get a doctor with a fucking leather satchel to carry your coke around. Yeah, and it's just he's just close to it. Stethoscope. Everywhere you go, bro. Has to. You need to have a stethoscope on. Everybody's gotta know you're legit.

Yeah, but that's like that's one of the great like eighties rumors about Jack. That's funny. I never heard that rumor that's a fun guy. That makes sense. But then you'd be around Jack. I was only around him a few times, but then and you know, it was cool as hell. And you're always kinda looking like, all right, who's the bagman? Who's his guy? Where is he you know, or who's the bagman for that night, you know? Yeah. Like was it a team of doctors that rotated? Dangerfield party till the end.

He uh he kept that trader rolling. Yeah he did. We lived we lived in the same building for a while. You in danger field? Yeah. It's that building in the book called the Wilshire on Wilshire. Oh wow. I got in the elevator with him one time. And and we'd we'd seen each other out but never really had it like an elevator moment, you know? And he goes, Hey uh kid, how you doing? You look great And he's like he goes, Hey, hey, what he goes at that. Yeah, yeah. Ow but in the elevator.

Look at Rod. He looks funny just in his photo. Just in the photo you start laughing. Doing nothing. He was so good, dude. I I can't tell you what happened that night. I don't know where we were. It but it looks like the jacket is definitely like circa eighty nine ninety. The um that looks like a backstage something that's on my jacket, right? Yeah. Probably at a poison concert or something. Perhaps.

So we're in the elevator, he says, Hey uh kid, what are you what are you Puerto Rican, right? And I and I said, No, I'm I'm I'm Spanish Irish. And he says, Uh, you don't know whether to start a parade or start a war And it's like doors open and he l he just walks out. He just had that on standby or or built it in the moment. He probably built it in the moment. Yeah. Yeah. And I was just like So I can't really ever d describe my heritage without hearing his voice, you know.

Start a parade or start a war. That's fun. Just left me with that gold, you know. We have his handwritten notes at our our comedy club in the Green Boom. Yeah. For one of his tonight show appearances. We have his handwritten notes framed all Okay. W and and and would he would he stick to like his jokes and he had like the punchlines for like accented bold letters. Oh seriously. Yeah, super organized. Well he t he stopped doing stand-up for a long time and he was selling aluminum side.

And then he made it again when he was much older in life. He came back and the thing that happened was from the time he stopped doing stand up to when he went back to having a regular job, he never stopped writing jokes. Like his brain just worked that way. So he was just always writing jokes. So when he came back sitting on a treasure trove. Yeah. Wow. Yes, and he just fucking stormed the gates. When he came back everybody's like, Where's this guy been? That's amazing. Yeah.

Wow. And then he became huge. Back to school and the Ronnie Dangerfield HBO comedy specials and d d doing stand up. I think he was in its forties. Got got some heat again. And that that activated the films. Yeah, well the stand up he didn't have any heat before, but when he quit. You know, he was just like kind of like getting by and doing all right and got a job. Quit. I think he might have quit for ten years.

Wow. Yeah. And then the whole time he's writing and then he's like, Fuck it, I gotta do this and then got back into comedy. Wow. I hope I'm not fucking that story up, but I think I'm I think I'm accurate with that. See if you can find it. I'm ninety percent sure that's true. But I know that he didn't make it until he was in his forties.

Uh I told this the other day but I'll tell it again. I used to work at Greatwood Center for the Performing Arts in Mansfield, Massachusetts. I was security guy there. Okay. And uh I was backstage or by the by the outside of the backstage. And Ron De Dangerfield would go on stage completely naked with a bathrobe on. That's what he would wear. And he was wearing a bathrobe backstage with slippers.

And just walking around I was like, This guy's wild. Wow. And they're like, he goes on stage like that. I'm like, shut the fuck up. Was it partially closed at least? Or it was just wild. Yeah, it was closed. But if you went in the green room, you were seeing his dick.

He was sitting there, we'd just sit there, his dick could be hanging out, he didn't care. Uh he struggled financially for nine years, one port forming as a singing waiter until he was fired before taking a job selling aluminum siding in the mid fifties. To support his wife and family. He later equipped so in the nineteen sixties he started reviving his career. Yeah. So...

somewhere close to ten years. Still working as a salesman by day. He returned to the stage performing at hotels in the Catskills Mountains, but still finding minimal success. He fell into debt, about twenty thousand dollars by his own estimate, could get booked Uh, Dangerfield came to realize what he lacked was an image, a well defined, on stage persona that the audience could relate to, one that would distinguish him from other comics after being shunned

by some premier comedy venues, he returned home where he began developing a character for whom nothing goes right. Isn't that crazy? Wow. Oh, look at this. During Roy's comeback bid, who's Roy? When he was nineteen. Roy to change his name, he had to become Rodney Dangerfield. Oh people recognize him. Wanna use that checking in at hotels from now on?

Wanting to distinguish himself from longtime patrons who might have remembered him from the nineteen forties, Roy asked club owner George McFadden to change his name. He came up with Roddy Dangerfield. Wow, he didn't want people to remember him as Jack Roy from back in the day. He didn't like his old act. Wow. Wow.

He said, I don't know where it came from. McFadden may have taken it from the Jack Benny program on NBC Radio, which first used Rodney Dangerfield as a character's name in nineteen forty one. Ricky Nelson also used the pseudom pseudonym in a nineteen sixty two episode of The Adventures of Ozzie and Harriet. Wow. That's crazy. Wow. That's when he popped again. That's amazing. That's nuts. Wow. Go get him. Yeah.

Maybe he didn't know whether to start a prey or start a war. He was a fun guy. Uh I knew a lot of people who knew him. I didn't get a chance to meet him. I I saw him once at the Laugh Factor. I ran into him, I said hi, but that was it. I never really got a chance to talk to him. But so you did have a have a moment. Yeah one moment. Okay. Yeah. Okay. It was f he was uh just leaving the stage. Hot milf with him. Awesome, thank you. I was like, you go, Rodney. Why not? Why not?

He's his wife is uh who donated us these uh These um handwritten notes and also the photograph of'em too. It's pretty cool. It's just there's a few guys like that that, you know, without them you you always wonder like where would comedy be? Like where would it ever turn up? Like so many people like Pryor and him and Lenny Bruce, so many people that just like changed everything. Carlin. Carlin. Yeah. So many people just changed Kinison. Sure. They just changed the whole thing.

But Dangerfield was one of the rare ones that introduced new comics to people. Like those that's where everybody found out about Kinison, so everybody found out about Clay, Don Marera, uh Lenny Clark, all these guys, uh Robert Schimmel, they all started out on the Rodney Dangerfield HBO comedy specials. Wow. Yeah. So he w he would have like He would like have his favorite comedians. He would just have like a show where he would like introduce his favorite comedians.

But he'd have to scout them at the clubs. He would go see'em so he'd just go out. And he had his own club in New York City, Beachfields. Okay. Yeah. And but he was you know, he was interested in promoting comedy too. You know. It was just a fucking amazing That's such a cool moment you had with him. I can still I can see it. I mean it's like it's there's nothing tricky about that memory. You know? What was it like being with your dad while he was filming apocalypse?

It wa it was there was a lot of that in the book. How old are you? Well, uh yeah, I had my eleventh birthday there. Um spent a t a combined total of eight or nine months there and that that was uh going back and forth, you know. Um it was uh it was just it was in the it wasn't just another country, it was another planet. You know? Um we'd seen po you know, different parts of the world traveling with him, you know, Mexico, uh Italy.

Switzerland, Germany, places like that, you know. But then you get to the Philippines and it was just um You just got a sense that um Wow, th this is all going on at the same time that we've been in Malibu, like kinda, you know, having fun and and just doing cool shit. And th and the so you visit a place like that and get in the middle of it and and and engage in in in this entirely just just Just a new such a surreal reality. Um and then, oh, wait a minute, they're here to make a movie.

And it's about a film that uh it's a it's it's about a w it's a film about a war that er that end barely ended like a year ago, right? Yeah. Fourteen months ago. When it's Saigon Fall, is seventy five?

Right? I think so. Yeah, and they're and I mean it was like right at the tail end of it. Um and so Yeah, it was uh we you know We were able to do enough stuff like recreationally, you know, that w with th there was a lake and you could water ski, you could fish, you could do those kind of things if you didn't want to go

to the set with dad. But once you went and saw the set where Dad was, you didn't give a fuck about water sports or fish or anything because what what what what they'd built and and what they were trying to create was uh w was was mind blowing because you know copula built Kurtz's compound out of practical material. It wasn't like you know, like uh like plaster covered uh chicken wire rebar. These were like, you know, two ton boulders they brought in and started stacking in the jungle.

Uh w and and you know, then then a lot of it would start sinking. Couldn't build a foundation. Right. Um but then the just the mix of people and the talent and Dennis Hopper and Brando and Duval and and it just it was every day felt uh f completely unique. You there there was not a there was no you you'd go to the set and you were going to see something completely different than what you saw the day before.

It was it was wild. Wow. Yeah. And and I I gravitated towards this gentleman named Fred Blau, who I mentioned in the book. He was the key he was the key makeup artist, you know, FX guy. And so he was building all the prosthetic for all the carnage you see in the movie. You know, so I'd walk into a shop and there's arms and legs. Heads and but I knew it was all fake.

You know? As a ten year old, when you start seeing how it's made and and you know, so so gore, um I think I write in the book, um was never gore in movies w w was was never emotional. It it was it was technical. Hmm. You know? And but but but still kept me really curious about about how it was done and and just the the the the the the artisans behind it that that could create those effects. How long were you over there for?

Uh a total of eight months. Wow. Maybe nine. Yeah. And it was it was three. Yeah, it was three at first. And then maybe four at first and then we went back and then dad has the heart attack and then we went back and stayed for like another four f four months. Yeah.

Yeah, it was and and people say, So, you know, growing up on sets you must have like dreamed about being an actor and I'm like, Yeah, until I got to the set that almost killed my dad You know. That's not a job, you're just gonna like wrap your arms around and say, When can I start? You know? Yeah. Um but it also um it it it j just the scope of the filmmaking

was really exciting and and we you know, I d I didn't really understand it as a ten or eleven year old. Um But I knew I I I knew there was something about it that that that that required a mu a much y y you know, closer look and and I had a very keen interest in in just you know, what it what it what what what what would it take to to like build this the you know uh th th this reality, this fake reality. Oh but wait, the subject is based in reality. But everything else around it is fake. So

That's a very strange experience for a ten year old. It is, yeah. On such a grand scale. Exactly. When it becomes what Apocalypse Now became. Right. Because it was like a culturally defining moment. Yeah. I mean it wa in it it's a movie that all other war movies. It does. It really does. It does, yeah. I don't I don't think there's been a film like it uh before or since. I think um No, it's a true masterpiece. It really is. Yeah. And and and there's no computer.

There's nothing generated. It's all had to be there on the day. And when you watch that the the you know, when when when when Kilgore takes the beachhead, that chopper assault, I mean when you look at the just what they had what they committed to yeah to bring that to the screen is just it's impossible.

And then you you you see some of the documentary stuff about he was like those were on loan from the Philippine Army and then like midday they had to go fight the rebels somewhere else and they told Francis, We gotta leave now with the choppers and he's like, I have eighteen cameras set up.

The whole the river is filled with bombs. Where are you going? We'll see ya tomorrow. Wow. Stuff like that. Yeah. Wow. Pretty wild. Yeah. But that must have like For you like to eventually become an actor in platoons. That ought to be s kind of surreal. How does that happen? Right.

How does that happen? How does that happen eleven years later? Yeah. Yeah. Or or n ten. Yeah. Yeah,'cause I do pl I did platoon at twenty. Right. Yeah. So how do I go back to the same country ten years later.'Cause ten years later with the same Narrate the fucking thing. And Th then it it it it's elevated to be on par with the one the death one of the only films that gets mentioned in the same breath as Apocalypse Now when it comes to war films. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm a much bigger fan of Apocalypse than Platoon and that is m m primarily about just the the scope and the complication and and just what d you know, um uh Uh difficulty factor. Yeah. Difficulty factor. It took forever, yeah. How many years did it take? It was like eight or nine years, right? It I d I don't know when uh Francis conceived it. Um

It came out in seventy nine. I think it ca did it come out in August of seventy nine? How many let's just Google how many years it August seventy nine years did it take? 'Cause I think it went way over budget. Oh it did. Oh yeah. And by today's standards, that's like uh Yeah, that's like a Fox searchlight budget. Right. You know? And Lawrence Fishburne was like what? How old was he? Pshe photography started March uh And it s came out in seventy nine.

So when was it when did the the project start? So it's not as many years as I thought it was. As Willard Did you know. Yeah. Yeah. And um then Francis j it just what he m he'd made the wrong choice. Har Harvey was doing it, you know, whatever he could. But Francis just saw it differently and had met Dad during the Godfather auditions.

And said, Let me m meet with Marty. Wow. You can tell people um that don't really know my dad that well, call him Marty. I run into people in the street and they're like, Hey, uh give give Marty my best and I'm like, Who in the fuck is Marty? People call him Martin. No. They know him better, you know. Um Well people that pretend to know someone always like to throw a Y on the end of it. Makes it look a tight. Interesting. You know? Yeah. So I would be like

Chucky. You you're still Charlie. Right, right. But I would be like Joey. Joey, my gosh. I could never think of you as a Joey. Yeah. No. But but imagine this with apocalypse. Um that um so I spend that much time, there's all that shit that happened. I even brought home like props and things, you know, severed hands and ifow jewelry and all this cool shit, right? And all these great stories. And then didn't have anything tangible to back any up.

I mean mom took a lot of photos, but like nobody could go to the theater and then say, Oh yeah, Charlie talked about that. Oh yeah, he talked he was there that day. Right. Everybody had to wait. And when you're that age, you know, waiting two or three years like waiting a decade, right? Mhm. So that was that was kind of a trip. Um, but when I saw it at the Center Amidome

In seventy millimeter, you know. Um, and it's like, man, when those choppers, when you hear them, when you hear just they're they're they're they're all around you. Um there the f there there a a film will never open like that again and have that kind of an impact. Did I mean w did you see it at the dome when you first saw it? No, no. I don't remember where I first saw it. I first saw it I think on a regular T V at home. Oh shit, okay.

I was too little to watch it in seventy nine, is that what it was? Um maybe I saw it when it came out on HBO or something like that for the first time. Uh Redo the Apocalypse Now Redo the the like the new newly mastered one. It's fucking sensational. So you have you finally had that experience. It's so well done and it's just so epic. Like for you to have s been there alive while they were putting that together and then to see it all pieced together and all I mean

That had to be an insane experience. Well and and and a lot of it was a surprise seeing it on the screen because like I talk about in the book, not so much in the doc, it was hard to get close to the action on a pocket. Because of the way the sets were constructed, because of the way, you know, Francis had everything lit, um, it was super claustrophobic.

you know, Kurtz's Temple and compound and places like that. Um and and um it was also fucking dangerous to be on that set. Right. You know what I'm saying? Snakes and shit and and just like lot of weird people, you know. Um and so uh uh yeah, Francis was just like, Come one, come all, you know. Wow. Um But um but yeah, so then it's like I wasn't there for any any of the chopper assault. Uh I w I was

I could see Hopper at a distance in that outfit with those cameras walking with dad. I couldn't hear what he was saying. So to then see that scene where you know dad first steps off the boat at the compound and Hopper has that incredible monologue. Yeah. You know, you got the cigarettes, that's what I've been dreaming. And it's just like so to have that that kind of that that to have been there that long and still be uh a completely fresh cinematic experience was a trip.

Did you ever get imposter syndrome? Like when you were doing platoon? Did you ever get like how the fuck am I here?'Cause it's so quick between you being ten, right being in the jungle while they're filming Apocalypse Now to you starring in Platoon. Had you settled into that or were you ever like How the fuck do I deserve this?

One of the things that John Cryer says in the documentary three hours. It's very insightful. Yeah. It's very insightful. Yeah. Yeah. He said that you probably feel like you don't deserve all this, so you sure you fuck it all up. Sure. He's not wrong. He's not wrong. Um But and then I I had a qu uh comment some interview the other day and I said, Well what the fuck, John, you kinda like laid that on me like, you know, a couple of decades sooner, man. Great advice. However A little late. Yeah.

Yeah, but you can't tell anybody that. They have to kinda figure it out. They do. But the thing about Platoon and when it happened, um, the good news is that I had done enough film work You know, not not like super memorable films except maybe uh parts of Red Dawn I think are pretty memorable.

Just w you know, what the film kind of was you know, what it stood for, what it was about. Um I think parts of Bueller were kind of memorable, first Bueller, right? Sure. But um But yeah, so so was so w was just sort of getting um more comfortable in front of a camera, more comfortable sort of y you know, being able to think on film and actually

you know, b breathe on film. Mm-hmm. I know that sounds kinda like actor schmactory, but it's actually a thing.'Cause you're gonna talk about controlling your breath in every other area of life. Sure. Right? And it's the same as true uh uh as an actor. Yeah, for sure. Even doing the show, even doing two and a half, uh, for that first scene I was I was usually off I was usually like

about to make an entrance from somewhere and I'd be back there and chain smoke and you know Marlboro Reds and just trying to figure out the first scene. But then when you'd hear the you'd hear the you'd hear the stage go quiet, right? Someone yells, you know, speeding, sound, market. And then if I could get that last breath to go to the bottom. I knew this first take was gonna be awesome. Mm. When the breath stopped about like at the sternum Shallow breath. Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Which sucks because that's the first time the audience is gonna see it. Right. You kinda want that one to be you know, if there's a if there's a cute girl in the crowd, that's the one you want her watching. Yeah. Not the second one where she's already heard the fucking jokes and now you're just doing whatever. Right. Now you're like, oh this show sucks. Exactly. The live performance thing is weird'cause they don't really do it anymore.

I mean I don't think there's very many shows that still do that kind of a sitcom in front of a live audience with multiple cameras. There's very few. I uh I think Tim Allen's show still does What what is that on? Uh Is that on Fox? I think it's A B C. Yeah. So he still does a traditional multi-camera. Yeah, because a guy I worked with a friend of mine who's on that writing staff. God, they used to be all over the television. I know. There used to be tons of them.

Oh, I think Chuck's new show on Netflix, um it's called uh Leanne Lorraine, shit. Leanne, yeah. Um I think that that's a live audience. Mm. You know. Okay. So they're still doing some of'em. Yeah. They're fun. It's fun when when it works, you know? Yeah. It's like it's it's a missing genre in today's culture. You're right. You see most of what was on late at night at nighttime. Right. When you got done having dinner, yeah. Seinfeld or two and a half men or

Com comfort view. Yeah. Yeah, we um my family binge watched uh Big Bang Theory. I never watched it when it was on the air. We binge watched it but it's a good fucking show. Yeah, they were a funny show. I dismissed it. I was like, Ah, it's a corny sitcom bullshit. It's a good show. Right on. Solid show. Right on. Yeah. That kid Kid, that that young man, Jim, right, uh had some of the most complicated dialogue that anybody's ever been saddled with ever.

Yeah, he's the first autistic star of an action show or of a sitcom. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. His uh emotional disconnection. Yeah. But delivering it like like Rainman, you know, and just with laser laser precision. It's a really well written show. It's very funny. That guy Chuck Laurie's how how many fucking hits? That guy's had a ton of hits. Yeah. Maybe more than anybody. Probably sitcom world? Probably. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Um they guys are friends again. Yeah, so am I. So am I. No, that that sucked having that out there. You know. Um You know, I did finally actually remember that fucking thing and I'm not gonna I'm not gonna it's the other component to that frickin' tour, to that meltdown to that thing, there was a moment when I was only in rehab for like

I don't know, three weeks or a month. It wasn't like one of those extended stays. It was just like a right you know, just like a quick little quick little sp yeah, like a spin drive, whatever they call that. Um And I got the call we wanna we wanna renegotiate the giant contract for season eight and nine, you know? And I I was on the phone, I said, I I don't I don't think so.

When they're like, What, you don't think you're gonna get paid? I'm like, No, I don't I don't think I don't think I don't think we should do it. I'm not I I think seven is like, you know Mantle war seven, some other cool sevens, you know. I I don't think I think seven is like plenty. I think we've I think we've told all the stories that we can mine from that.

From that Malibu house on the beach with those people. And they're like, No, no, you don't understand, man. This is when it all like this is when it turns into like a legacy play for your fucking kids and their kids and nah day. And then the part they always leave out is an and our cut. Yeah. And our fucking cut. Yeah, that's uh

Yeah, they're on the phone. Yeah. And I said on the phone and Mark and I have talked about that. Talked to me on Mark Berg, my manager and I said, Mark, if I go back there, man, it's gonna go really fucking bad. I just know it. He's like, Well, you're you're you're projecting that. I said, I'm not projecting shit, man. I'm just I'm just smart enough to know how I feel about it now. Got a little bit of clarity in this month I'm in the thing.

I said if I if I go back there I just I got a I got a bad feeling, Mark. Why going back to work would send you off the rail? Just that I had run up against a thing that I I had lost passion for the show, I'd lost passion for the process. Find some ways to stimulate yourself. Exactly. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That then I would have to do something um to enhance. I said that about a lot of guys that got caught on shows that suck.

I knew a lot of guys who got caught on shows where they were getting paid but they did not like the show and it was a like a bad sitcom. And those guys all went crazy. Those guys all started doing a lot of drugs or they started spending too much money or something. They did something to distract themselves. Right. Because they did not like what they were doing.

And they they didn't feel satisfied. Right. Yeah. But they were getting so much money. Right. I'm like, Oh God. Yeah. What do you do? You can't quit I was I was making fifty four thousand an hour. Well that's pre taxes, so was I said no to season eight and nine, I'd be like, Do I have to wear a dress? Right. Well I'll I'll wear what do I have to do? I wear Dangerfields robe at that point. Let's go. No but um uh no that that was after I I got kind of

Crowbarred into it, you know. Well not crowbarred. I'd ultimately say yes. I gotta own that, you know. But um it was just I was just the wrong guy who in that moment, in that pocket of time to like give that much fucking money to, man. Right. You know? Right, right, right. And like I'd buy a bunch of cars and then invite a bunch of girls over and then just say pick one.

And then you did that other thing where you had that other show after that that you got paid like a ton of money in advance for, right? Um You talking about anger management? Yeah. Uh no, I was supposed to get uh it was it was desi it was called a ten ninety. Yeah. It was a crazy scenario. They suck you into that.

is they say, look, you uh you're not gonna get a ton on the on the on the front side, but you're gonna be you you know, you you're gonna own a third of the show or like forty th thirty seven, thirty eight percent of the show in perpetuity. So we're gonna do a hundred episodes and it's the uh the South Park um uh model. That was the first ten ninety that really just blew it up and everybody got fucking rich. So you do these ten episodes, you do a ten episode pilot.

And then if you hit if if the average number of those ten episodes comes in at like, I don't know, at like a like a above a four or like a five one or something that it's like a share, right? Um, then it activates the next ninety. And so then you're doing those ninety to have a s of sellable uh uh uh syndication package. that will just go all over the world and and, you know, do what what syndicated sitcoms do.

And so you've done it, y you know, and y you know, when you say not a lot on on the front side, you're still, you know, still getting a buck fifty an app, you know. Two hundred that's pretty good money, right? Um But it's not but you kinda you kinda eat it on that side knowing that it's an investment for the other thing to to pay gangbusters. So you did you guys you did the ten episodes and then you got to do all of'em? Yes. So you wound up doing a hundred.

Yes. But you did him in a short pound a short period of time. Two and a half years. That's crazy. I know, I know. Yeah. And I was I was not ready to go back to work. Yeah, and that's the thing I talk about in the book. The the only reason I did was I I wanted to show those guys across town that I was.

Right, right, right. And that is not that is not any way to any mindset to like lead the troops. And it you know, again it started pretty cool. I did the tan, it was great, you know, doing some pretty good work and the shows were smart and funny and and then we got into that ninety and it was about it was about twenty. No, what am I saying? It's probably like Like nine or eleven into it, I started feeling exactly the same shit that I felt.

On two and a half bags. Going past that point I knew mm my enthusiasm and passion had had a uh had an expiration date. You couldn't manufacture it? I c I tried. But I couldn't I didn't um I didn't like the show enough. You know. I loved the people I was working with, you know, from the from the writers to crew to the actors. They were terrific. You didn't like the final product? I didn't yeah, and I didn't I stopped caring.

Mm. But I still, you know, had enough dough to keep the lifestyle and all that other fun shit going on and just

stayed way too fucking high to really engage in this thing. Um, I mean, I was doing this thing, Joe, where I would I was partying, you know, hitting the fucking pipe, either girls or porn or both or who you know, whoever showed up, yeah, fucking yeah, hey, come on in. Come on. There's plenty to go around. And then um there's this thing I think I I felt like I was ta time traveling from like one AM to like seven. Felt like

Whereas, you know, nine to midnight felt normal. Wow, we have plenty of time to do everything. And then like the the the hours I really needed to like you know, settle in and enjoy, those just vanished. And then you're back to work. No, I got someone banging on my fucking door. Dude, you're late. What the fuck? And I'm still fucking sideways. Wow.

So I'd pop a couple of shots or like half a Xanax or something and I said, Oh, I just need and I would literally do this thing. It was a fifteen minute, twenty minute nap. Where I would just hit the pillow, I'd try to meditate with a body just vibrating from crack all night. Trying to meditate. At that point I'm trying to fucking time travel. I'm trying to levitate, right? And

But I could feel, okay, I've I've generated some calmness. And then I would hit the shower, and I would t I'd be in the shower and I'd say, okay, I only have to navigate from this shower to the next shower. And that's about eleven, maybe twelve hours. It was a shower to shower. Remember that commercial like in the seventies? Wasn't there a fucking

Like a deodorant or a call shower to shower. Yeah. Yeah. Like it lasted from one shower to the next. Yeah. So I'm trying to last from one shower to the next, man. No shit. And then But I'd get to work and then have that midday drop off. And I wasn't hitting the pipe at work, but I needed to keep some f some fuel in the engine.

So I'd be you know, I'd start drinking and then man, s people look at sitcoms like, Oh, they're out there having a fun time. Man, it is Fucking complicated. Well you've done them. Yeah. Right? It's like an it's like an dance, isn't it? It's like a uh it's like a choreographed thing. And so it is hard enough to do a and to do well completely focused and and and with all your shit intact, right? You start getting

over here and trying to be that specific just with marks, with jokes, with timing, with other people. And then a lot of my energy is going to trying to disguise like the condition I'm really in. You know, and trying to make excuses. Right. Oh I had a med mix up today. Med med mix up? I'm on two pills or the same fucking thing at the same time every day. There's no med mix up.

You know? It's like what are we doing? And so yeah, and then that turns into that thing where you just then they start getting behind and I would just be like, I'll just sorry for the overtime, I'll just pay for it and You know, they should they should have not taken the money. They should have said, We're shutting down, you need to fucking

go go go get well or go get just a little better than what you're showing up as. Um and so that show kind of never really had a chance to be anything really anything special, you know.

'cause I didn't I did I didn't I didn't really care about it. And the thing that sucks about that, looking back, it's like Think about all the energy and the hard work that all those other people put into it and committed to it because I said yes.

Right. You know. And there's also there's a bunch of people that were rooting for you'cause they w y they saw what happened with two and a half men, it it was big public disaster. You leave, is his career ruined? Oh no, look, he's got another show. Oh, Charlie's back. But did anybody even say, um, okay, so hold on, what did he do between that that th you know, th w after that last swan dive into the volcano that we all want?

W and then he's on the he's back on he's on another show. Like what did he do between then and there? was that you were one of the rare guys who could party like that but still pull it off and have a career. Right. And I think your ex wife had said that, that she never worried about you. You would always land on your feet. Mm. Because you were very talented. And you were also very loved.

They weren't mad at you. Where so many people who don't admit that they party, you know, because of their job or because of whatever. Right. You know, they try to like keep it h you know, hidden under under wraps. Right. And you were doing a live interview with this lady. And you're you're talking to her about smoking rocks and and she was flabbergasted. Like you could tell she did not expect that kind of candor with discussion of uh illicit drugs. Right. It was just like

Nobody ever done that before. Well she asked. I mean ever embraced it. Right the way you're well, you know, it's a terrible time in my life. I got so low I was doing Okay. Right, right, right. It comes from a place of shame. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And you didn't have any shame. I didn't. No. Because I'd watched something like a couple days before I sat down with Andrea Canning

And it was this old interview with Charlie Gibson on good on uh some special they did for A B C right. I don't even think it wasn't a GMA piece. It was like a more in depth mm one of those exposes they do, you know. And it was me coming out of rehab. And I I remember watching myself and just being such a I was like that I think that's a good thing. Pussy, what's wrong with him? Look at him, all that shame, all that embarrassment.

It's like, no, no, no. We're not doing that anymore. So that that got locked in. Oh. Yeah. I remember how I I just I remember how I felt watching me doing it their way. Yeah. And then you know I got all the I got the brain full of you know, fucking nuclear crazy cream that I'm on fucking you know, just covering myself in and uh yeah. That's what two K's. That's like the donuts, right? Um and

Yeah, man. A and and and you know where the material came from, right? Th those slogans and all that stuff. No. Was Brian Wilson. From the Beach Boys? No, the Brian Wilson pitcher for the Giants. The the guy they called the beard. Oh. Yeah. I was on the phone with him like the day a couple days before that'cause Tony and I, Tony Todd and I were watching uh baseball highlights and I was like, wow this guy

trip. Tony, get him on the phone, right? And the next day I'm on the phone with him. I think he was just trying to give me a pep talk. He was like, hey man, uh just know that guys like us, you know, we're not we're not we're not we're not like everybody You know, we're we're we're we're different, man.

Yeah, we got tiger blood running through our veins. We got fucking Adonis DNA. We got uh y y you know, we're we're we we we we don't know how to lose, man,'cause we're always fucking winning, right? So I hear all this. And he's probably thinking, Cool man, I just kind of inspired him, maybe just to get to the next moment, you know? That stuff went in there, man. And it stayed on a fucking loop. And I sat down

And the the interview doesn't start like that, which is a trip. I'm trying to keep it together. I'm trying to give her the stuff she needs to like maybe I don't even know what was the thrust of that story? Being fired or some shit or or remember.

So but there's a moment that's not on film. And Andrea can't deny this. Um, she makes a crack about these two girlfriends that I'm living with, right? Um and And expects me to just like br like let it d just just b you know, brush it off and then answer her next question. And I said, Hold on a second I said, That was really rude.

She's like, which part? I'm like, well what you just how you just address them? You owe them an apology. And she was like, uh uh, okay. I I'm paraphrasing some of this, right? But that this is kind of this is the tone of it. And so she address them? As just like uh porn porn chicks, you know.'Cause one was a porn chick, the other was not. She's calling Natty, so she kinda got rolled into that.

d unfairly, you know. And so so then they you know, she Andrea's like, Oh my god, okay, you know, I'm sorry, I didn't mean anything by that, you know, but I'm over here, you know, with the thing, um and And I'm not I'm not letting it go.

I I I asked you to apologize. We should have been past it. Now I'm stewing. Oh you ramped up now. Yeah. Yeah. And that's when it turned into And then I start hearing Brian's stuff and I'm like, uh, I don't know, man, I'm fucking tired blood and and then it all just and then it it got away from me and I and I couldn't pull it back.

Could I couldn't pull it back and then everybody's like, Okay, well that was different. I mean it's kind of fucking interesting and unique and whatever, man. Well um well let's just let's let let's, you know Let's just have a quiet night and and and and and we'll see how that plays out, you know. And I wake up into a world of is not not the world I said goodnight to. Six hours earlier. And they s p my friends are banging on the door. People are s you know, sending me

Dude, the fucking the world's on fire with your shit, man. I'm like, all right, what does that mean? Um and there's like there's folk songs and rap songs and people like marching in the streets and there's already T shirts and there's this it's just it has just gone It exploded. Yeah. And so It's not like I could jump on my roof with a bullhorn and say, All right everybody, okay, let's just, you know.

They were joking around about it. See? Yeah. I mean it got it it got away from you. It penetrated me. Yeah. Yeah, it achieved penetration. Well That no one had ever done an interview like that before. I did I didn't I yeah. I I I I wasn't thinking about that in the moment. I was just fucking pissed. And I wasn't gonna be Sissy Charles from from the nineties, you know.

convergence of all these elements and all these emotions and all these feelings and and also the, you know, resentment I had in myself, you know, and just like, all right, I'm just gonna pick some targets and And and and you know, would have been nice had it been sort of Uh if I could have just sort of been herded, um, just kind of you know, away from it. You know. Have you ever thought of what your life would be like if you didn't do that interview?

I I've started to No, I've started I've started to try to walk into that village, right? But as soon as I take a look around, none of it really makes sense because It it's it did I I I can't really imagine it. You know, what what do you think it would I mean, what would it it's it's hard to kinda even p put those pieces together. I wonder if you had ever would have gotten sober.

Interesting. You mean you mean you mean today's sober so you m you might have had to have that complete chaos tail spin free fall crash publicly right to just eventually like gather your shit together. Right. All right. Time to learn and grow. Right. Obviously that wasn't smart. Let's do it differently. Right. Let's get it together and step by step, day by day, and look here you are almost

Nine years later. Almost eight or eight years later. That's uh You you always wonder, like maybe you have to have That was your rock bottom moment. And it was public, you know? Like a the whole world got to see it. Like a full cleanse. Yeah. Wow. Just a purging of all of And you know and still you have to battle with the this reinforcement because now everybody is loving the fact that, you know, you're winning and that, you know, you're talking about

how much crack you smoke and how crazy it is and you got all these hot girls and everybody's like, He's winning. He's winning. And so now there's no incentive at all to get healthy. Right. Which is kinda nuts. And not only that, financially you're kind of It kind of helps you to be like a little off the rails. It's like you're kinda known for that.

You know, like and then you have this big tour and everybody's coming out to see you. Right. Yeah. Which was crazy for you to do. Like the first one where you did it without comedians was just banana. Yeah, I went it was a it was a complete train wreck. Yeah. It was a disaster. You guys pulled it together.

of like your career when things have fallen apart, people want you to pull it together. Right. So even though you had that disaster show and everybody knew it was a disaster show in Detroit. People were still coming out to see the other ones. Right, right, right. Yeah. I um I had an uh the um option um after the d Detroit v massacre um of flying uh to Chicago or taking the bus.

The tour bus, right? And I said, uh I need I need those seven or eight hours on the bus. And they're like, Why? I said,'cause I'm gonna rewrite the entire show. And I think um I think Natty was on that trip. I think maybe Rick, I don't know, Shady was on. A anyway and I just I just uh there was a place you know, room in the back and I just kinda barricaded myself with a pad of paper and a pen and just went to town and just sort of started trying to reshape it.

And when I got to Chicago, they were expecting all this all the special effects we needed from that gar you know, all that garbage. I said, We traveled with none of it. I said, Here's the new show. They're like, You sure about this? I'm like, Just trust me And that and unfortunately that's the night where it got applauded and kept the train on the tracks. Was Chicago, you know?

Mm. But isn't that weird I had the wherewithal like in the middle of all that at least still had enough enough something, enough of that thing to to to tr to just you know, maybe that's just pride at that point. Certainly it's also uh that's the Impact of public humiliation. Like Thank you. Enough. How about that? Time to get this fuck on that. Yeah. And it it was it was just it was the curtain comes up and there's two And I have a moderator. And it's just a conversation.

Imagine that. Yeah. Didn't reinvent anything. No. You know, and I ha oh oh, I wrote a letter is what it was. Um Dear Chicago. And it's like this whole thing, you know, including them. Um and and yeah, so I got them I kinda got them back on my side and then we sat down. Yeah. Well people realized also you were figuring this tour thing out on the fly. Yeah. Yeah. It was twenty one cities in like twenty four days with no act.

That's what it was, man. So who do you I know yeah Jeff Ross was on subject? Jeff Ross, yeah. Who's great at that the master at off the cup. Wow, he showed up and really Oh yeah. Perfect guy for that. He put a shape on it. Yeah. And then you had Russell on some of them too, right? Yes. Who's also a master at Off the Cuff. Yes. And he and he um he was so relieved that that the two chairs had shown up.

'Cause that's when he joined us in Canada. Ah. Yeah. No, he was terrific. Yeah. Russell's awesome. Yeah.

Do you know the first night sitting with him? Some dude like um what's like the Canadian version of like a a quarter? I uh what's their dollar? A loony, okay. But that's a dollar? I think so. Okay. Is that the heavy one? Yeah, someone threw it at him. No, at me. Oh. Like we're in the chair for maybe five minutes. And I get from the balcony, I get hit with one right here. Oh. And it just it was like getting punched.

But like someone with a skinny metal hand, you know? And uh and I just had to I had to kinda pause into that and th they they got the guy thrown out. But I just thought, Wow, I could have lost an eye. Yeah. A Russell could have lost an eye. Also pretty good shot. Really good shot.

That's impressive. It is.'Cause that's not an aerodynamic thing. It's not. No, how you throw it. You have to kind of factor in a lot of flipping in the air. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's kinda like a boomerang or something. Yeah, it's a frisbee. It's a frisbee. A little tiny frisbee. Yeah. So anyway, so that's there were just moments like that that that I um I guess just little cosmic reminders that not everybody was on my side. Right, right. Yeah.

Yeah. Which is important too. Hey, can I hit the bathroom really quickly? Yeah. We can actually wrap it up. We're getting close. Okay. You want to wrap it up? Um, can we just touch on a couple of things before we do? Absolutely. Stay a leak and we'll come back.

Should we bring this up? I guess we have to. So this just happened. Uh we just found out that Charlie Kirk got shot. It's fucking awful. And is he dead? I don't think so. That's what was just one of the guys out there just said it was confirmed that he's dead. I was looking I've been looking, I haven't seen anything that said confirmed. Murder for having a different opinion from somebody else. Yeah. Different ideology from somebody else.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Beliefs that didn't align it or yeah. I'm sorry? Yeah. Rest in peace for fucking Jesus. Tw tw twenty seven years old, maybe? Thirty. Do they even have a a suspect? Fuck, nobody deserves he doesn't deserve that. Nobody deserves that. So so were you saying that MSNBC had the crazy take on it? Mm-hmm. What was their take? Uh I'll pull it up though. Fuck. And even now they could have taken it down.

It was a tweet or a video? I don't I so I don't I don't I I'm you know I'm doing the show while I'm trying to figure out. Right, no, I understand. Uh I think It's not a tweet. It's not on their Twitter account or anything. So it's someone's hot take. Yeah, that's a crazy take. Crazy take is that what was the take that they deserved it? No, I I that's why I didn't want to pair it. Right. Uh Here you go. Um Dave Portnoy reposted this.

Happens. You can put the headphones on. We don't know if this was a supporter shooting their gun off in celebration or so we have no idea but Oh that's it. What? Someone shot their gun off in celebration and killed him. You do you know you shoot celebration guns in the air.

Just uh what a crazy take. Like it might not have been someone assassinating someone for the wrong opinion. Huh. Well why does something like that have to be spun? I mean they want to try to pin it on a tr a Trump supporter with a cr a crazy Trump supporter with a gun. Right. Going whack

Of course. We don't know if it was a supporter shooting off a gun in celebration. Because you know they do a lot of folks are just constantly out there shooting off guns at large gatherings in celebration. Yeah, fourth of July you can't leave your house. No, that is um that that that's a wow There's gonna be a lot of people celebrating this. It's so scary. It's so dangerous too to to to celebrate or to in any way encourage this kind of behavior from human beings.

He's not a violent guy who's talking, talking to people on college campuses. Wasn't even particularly rude. He was tried to be pretty reasonable with people. Everything I saw seemed reasonable. Yeah. You know, whether you agree with him or don't. And there's a lot of stuff that I didn't agree with. That's fine. You're you're allowed to disagree with people without celebrating the fact they got shot. But you can't disrespect his passion. Yeah.

Well what you're supposed to do with a guy like that if you're opposing him is debate him. Right. Have a conversation where your your argument is more compelling than his. Sure. That's what people should be celebrating, discourse. You know, we used to do that. Do some homework and and bring it to the table. Yeah. Yeah. It's horrible. This podcast has been a lot about violence, man.

It has, but not this kind. No. I I'm I'm sorry, not not um something is so in the moment right now from someone the the the this current li current yeah that that that we see and and are are are uh j j you know aware of daily mm-hmm right yeah I mean he's one of those young influencers, right? This time from the right, who is uh all over social media, always doing these various shows and debating people and talking to people and giving speeches and Sure. Yeah.

No one deserves this, folks. No one that has different opinions. No one deserves that. No. This is horrible. No. But I know people are gonna celebrate it.

'Cause p this is a fucked up time and people have really fallen into this trap. Of us against them. But it's also gonna make people not wanna be as courageous or not wanna be as as as as as forthright with with the things they believe. It's gonna it's gonna put people on guard. It could. It could also It could do the opposite. I I I I get that, but there's also going to be that sort of ingrained thing now. Mm-hmm.

And y you know, a and i just go you know, going through the whole New York thing I just you know, sometimes you're you you know, there's a there's a crowd and it's all love. It's all love and all they want is You know, is i is your signature or a photo or this and that. But there's so much of th those moments where you're spent looking down. Mm-hmm. You're looking down the entire time. Yeah. And I I don't think anybody wants to shoot me. I don't I don't think

that that's kind of out in the world, right? Um but it just it's it's the type of shit that just lives in in in the back of one's mind. Yeah. Because how could it not? How could it not? And then and then the thing like today

And you're like, okay, that that's why it's in it's it's in it's in the back of our minds. Yeah. You know? Well it's you know, when we were talking about assassinations earlier, whether it's Kennedy or R F K or y you know, you think of'em in the past. You think of

You don't when something happens in the the current, like right now with this one with Charlie Kirk, it doesn't seem real. No. It seems very surreal. It does. It does. It seems like it does. It's gonna take a long time before we reference this as some something that happened. Like he oh remember he got shot and killed. Oh yeah. Like right now it's just doesn't seem real. It seems uh It seems so crazy that it just it's not registering.

Is is is he is is he a friend? No. Uh I met him once. I met him once at a gun range of all places. Wow. Um Wow. Yeah. Uh, he was a nice guy. Um when I met him. Wow. It's a fucked up time. People are so divided. So divided and there's so many people that love it. They love that we're divided and they profit off that division and they stoke the fire.

And and they do it for their own profit and it's so fucking gross. It's so gross. And to encourage this kind of thing is really one of the most horrific things that you could do after someone dies horribly like this is celebrate. This is nuts. No, it's uh it's it's unforgivable that that that to spend things like that and'cause the people they're never thinking about is is is that person's family.

I think they just no that's just like default with those. They gaslight you by default. Right. So immediately they try to find some reason why The whatever the the thing is that's in the news is someone else's fault. Right, of course. It's just all gaslighting. And that's what they're paid to do. They're paid propagandists. Masquerading as the news. So weird. Fuck. No, this is a this is a it's a it's a dark day. Yeah. It is.

Well one of things two things is gonna happen. Either people are gonna realize how fucking insane this is and we have to have a conversation about being able to have conversations. Right. Or it's gonna get a lot worse. Yeah. Scary this could spark off some kind of a real violent conflict. Yeah. Send people over the edge. It could. It could, yeah. There there there there's always that flashpoint moment in in in in any you know, in in in

previous times like this. Yep. You know? Yep. It's there's always that tipping point moment. Like like the Rodney King film. Yep. Right? Something. Just like that's it. Yeah.

You know, this also highlights um just f a little bit of perspective like how lucky Trump Oh, yeah. You know? And it's just like Charlie didn't get the benefit of a head turn or a couple of a couple of microns or millimeters or You know, and it's just like, Wow, wow, who who who decides that? Yeah. What you know, that is just bananas. Yeah. But they talk about it clips his ear. Yeah.

'Cause he makes a reference to something. Yeah. And then it's just yeah. And then it clips his ear. Where if he didn't turn his head he'd be dead. And it would have been on live on CNN. How do we know more about An assassination from nineteen sixty three? Yeah.

There's a lot of weird stuff in that story. Uh outside of the offices of the FBI in that area, all the way to this guy, multiple times. Imagine that. He was uh twenty years old. Uh his apartment was professionally scrubbed. There was no silverware in it. They had no social media presentation. He, you know, was regularly training with uh like military guys. He was regularly training and shooting. Like one guy had remembered him from a range. Right.

Right. Like what? He was in a BlackRock commercial two years before. Right. Like what? His his his chosen rooftop is just kind of between the two quadrants that they're assigned to cover. Not only that it's just a it's just a blind spot. The slope was too steep, which made zero sense. Because he climbed up it. He was fine. Yeah, he did. What the fuck are you talking about? It didn't make any sense. Not only that, the uh the one where the snipers were perched had a steeper slope.

Made no sense. No. It was fucking nuts. They found that guy walking around the uh the the grounds a half an hour before the event with a fucking rangefinder. Yeah. Yeah. If if if you're not if you're not on a golf course with a rangefinder, yeah. Then the y you you know You're gonna shoot something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what they're for.

But it's just man, it's uh It it it it sucks that that to say things like m you know, the the the these are the times we we currently inhabit, you know, and and that the that there's nothing th th that is an absolutely factual statement. Yeah. And it sucks to have to y you know Tim, Tim, Tim

exist in in inside of that. Yeah. Yeah. It's very strange, man. It's very strange. Very strange. It's very strange and you know we've talked about it a bunch of times, but it bears repeating. I think a lot of it is highlighted. A lot of it is uh people are being inflamed online.

Interesting. See I I don't I I don't study any of that. Um there's a lot of that going on. I think it's a giant percentage of all online discourse or people are hating and saying mean things about people's political beliefs or anti Israel things or anti Palestine things or whatever. I I just think a giant ton of that is foreign foreign governments who are running these body

And it's been proven. They they know for a fact. China actually got caught recently. What was this the chat GPT thing? They were using chat they were using open AI software Yeah. And they were commenting on like blocking of USAID money and a bunch of different like political subjects. And what but the what they're basically doing is just getting people to fight. Just that's what they want. They want constant fighting, constant inf constant

You we have to take action. We have to you know, this constantly stoking the flames. Right, right, right, wow. So it's not even organic. Some of it's organic for sure, but a lot of it is being enhanced by foreign governments for sure. What they did with the within

the the Manson family? You think they stopped there? You think n some of that kind of stuff isn't going on right now that we don't know about right now because there hasn't been a Tom O'Neill to write a book about it? Sure. Sure. And then and then we also never know which stuff was the beta test. for the you know, for that for that s you know, specific type of program or that specific type of op to be rolled out. Yep. And like where you know, okay, let's let's let's see

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh hell. Yeah that worked like a charm. Okay. Activate more of those, you know? Yeah. Jesus. How do we how do we wrap this up on a positive note? I don't think we can. No. I think it is what it is. It is what it is. I think we just have to deal with that. Yeah.

Well, um listen man, it was great to finally actually meet you. This was amazing. It was a lot of fun. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, no, I I I think you'll notice now I I I always need a few minutes to get warmed up. Yeah. Get settled in. No, you seem cool right off the bat, man. No, thank you. Thank you. My just my sometimes my brain

Like we talked about. You know, it wants to go somewhere else when I was trying to It's amazing your brain works as good as it does considering all the the things you've done to it. Oh that's awesome. Thank you. There's that part.'Cause people like you know Hey man, you should get some laser work on your face. I'm like, dude, I'm lucky this thing is still fucking attacked.

Yeah. So g go fuck yourself. You actually look way better than you've looked at a long time ago. Oh, right on. I think you look the sobriety suits you. It really does. Thank you. You look really healthy. You know, I took a page out of your book. Um

A very specific page and I i and if if if even if it's a rumor at work. Um, I use a sauna blanket, right? This thing called higher dose. And I'm not sponsored by them. I just bought one and I fucking love it. I use it at home and then I hear, hey man, fucking Joe travels with his, right? I have one of those sauna blankets. But do you travel with it? I do if I know that there's not gonna be a sauna. Okay. Okay. So I a lot of times I'll just try to find a place that has a sauna. Okay.

Yeah. I was like, well fuck it, if he's travelling with him You definitely can though. It's good they're great. I'm gonna travel with mine. Yeah. So I've had it on this trip. I I traveled with it. It's a pain in the ass. I'm lugging this rolling duffel and shit. Who cares? But so so thank you. It's worth it though. Thank you for the idea. Those are great because the those sauna blankets are great because they're portable and you could always just get it in.

Right, right. I I really genuinely prefer a real sauna if you have one because I like to stretch out in the sauna. Sure. It's uh it's the best time ever to stretch. But as far as time With with the with the portable blanket is like uh I I tell people it's like a bikram class. without all the yelling and pain. Right? A little bit. Well do you do do you get drenched in that? Oh sure. A lot of it is heat shock therapy. Right. Which really helps.

But w a lot of what they're there there was actually a study that they were doing at Harvard. I don't know if they completed it. But uh they were doing it a couple of years back about uh the benefits of hot yoga and whether they're comparable to the medical the known medical benefits of sauna, which are pretty pretty well doc.

And and what what what what was the conclusion? They I don't know. I I have to think it's gotta be similar. Because I've been in both, you know, I've been in a lot of hot saunas and I've done a lot of hot yoga and That you because of the exercise I think you reach very similar body temperatures. Got it. And you your heart rate jacks up because you're so you're so hot and your your

You know, you could barely cool yourself off with a glass of water when they let you have a sip. Like in between things you're allowed to take a sip of water. Yeah. But it's uh it's real similar and it's ninety minutes, you know. brutal. You you can get through a a real good bikrim hot yoga class at the end of that, man. You're

You're you're you're yeah, you're you're you're gonna have a you you you have a different day in front of you. A hundred percent. If we all did that every day, it was like how everyone started their day. The world would be so much more peaceful. Yeah. Yeah, no, you're right. It really would. Yeah, it really would. It'd be a much, much, much better place. And you don't have to fucking

Do anything hard in the gym. You don't have to lift weights. You don't have to punch the bag. All those things are great. But just do a hot yoga class for ninety minutes every day. You you will live in a different world. Yep. Thirteen up, thirteen down, right? Yeah. Kindness and Sweet people and hello friend. Right.

Because you've already you've already put yourself through something that nobody else can deliver the rest of the day. They can't deliver that kind of pain you just inflicted on yourself. And it's a constant battle to see if you can use a hundred percent effort. Exactly. Can I hold this pose? Yeah. Yeah. And and there's no cheat zone. Exactly. There's no you can't because you're always doing it a hundred percent of what you can do. Right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah. No, I I was

Rexford in the early eighties. Oh wow. Yeah, man. We were with that original crew. Wow. Yeah. There's one thing that was really cool. Um Kareem was in there. Kareem had the bar. Wow. And you know the a lot of the stuff with the arms above the head. Mm-hmm. He w he can only go about here'cause the ceiling. Yeah. I would come in late sometimes and Kareem would already be in there. And so his shoes would be like next to his locker.

So I would put my f still wearing my shoes inside his shoes just because I I had just had to. I mean it's cool as fuck. It's Kareem, right? And so but then Quincy Jones is also in there, right? And so um the mirror you could see the front desk where you check in behind you like you could see it but it was behind us. We're all facing forward.

And for about a six month period, you know, Quincy's in a little speedoes and he's giving you know, he's giving it his all. He'd be in the middle of like the standing bow or the frickin' head to knee or something like a triangle or something really complicated and he'd stop. And he'd leave the class, but you'd see him going to the desk and writing shit down.

sweating in his speedo, right? And he's writing shit down, he's sweating all over the paper. He'd come back and try to, you know, resume what what he was doing. And then this went on for a while and we came to find out later. Guess what he was working on? If you think about the year, if you think about like what that how his mind was being y expanded, right? He was producing Thriller. Whoa. Yeah.

And he's getting inspired during the the yoga during the Becram Yoga. So we were kind of watching in the mirror the the the best I think the largest selling album ever, perhaps. Right? Probably. Yeah. It's gotta be up there. Being built behind us. Wow. Kind of a trip, right? Yeah. Wow. That shows you how hyper dialed in he is. Yeah. Even in the middle of a yoga class, gotta run out. He's probably thinking about it with every pose. Exactly.

Yeah. Had to write it down. Because most people aren't allowed to leave the class. But Quincy Jones has to write some shit down for Thriller, you gotta let him leave. Yeah. Yeah. He gets that pass, doesn't he? He gets the pass. All right, brother, this is an absolute pleasure. This is an honor. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you. Best of luck for you and everything. Thank you.