#2199 - Chris Harris

The Joe Rogan Experience by Joe Rogan Park House by Night, R.D. I have, I'll go most places and I'm here because I want to tell people the truth about the last eight. I've had a pretty shit two years because top gear ended in a way that most Americans won't know but my colleague nearly died in a crash and then they left us in limbaugh but I've never told anyone anything about it.

Largely because my friend and colleague who was nearly killed in the accident called Andrew Flintoff who was a presenter on the show. Again, no Americans on over years but he's a massive sports hero in the UK. He plays that weird game called Cricket. He was like our best cricket player. Can we use this? Yeah, no we can. I was going to give you a quick four taste of it. I'm not, I'm here to, I'll say some things that people weren't have heard before and they'll make them gasp a bit.

Well, there's a recording now. Yeah, there's a song. Okay, that's fine. I was on them though. What's that? I was on them. Okay. That's fine. Well, but like, we're on me. I'm going to go into it all. Okay. But it might be that what seems quite revelatory to me. And we're going to see you. And since we're rolling. Ten years. Yeah. It's been a while. And you know what? I don't, I don't ever listen to what I say or watch what I record. I don't watch my own shows. Good for you. We don't either.

I don't. No. It's good for the soul. Yeah. Once it's done, it's buried. Exactly. But I think I came to see you about a month before I received a phone call saying, do you want to do this television show called Top Gear? Yeah, it was before Top Gear for sure. Yeah. And I think it was then. And I think at that point, I'd been building a lot of questions about, well, why would you follow Jeremy Clankson on Top Gear? And I'd go on air, no one would do that. They'd be an idiot to do that.

And then I looked at the monthly payments I needed to live my life and I got offered a bit of not much money, but some money I thought I'll give it a go. But most importantly, I thought the 17-year-old me, if he saw me say no to this job, but punch me in the face. Right. Because it's my dream job.

Right. And I know that Top Gear is a weird thing in the US because I think many US people are aware of it that it exists, but they've never really seen it because it never was put on a big network here. Yeah, but it became very popular on YouTube. It did. Yeah. It was a great show. Yeah. I mean, whether my era of Top Gear will be considered great, I don't know. I had lots of fun making it, but following in Jeremy's footsteps was on reflection of decision-nive. I made the wrong call.

I shouldn't have done it. Really? Yeah. I had a great time. But you try following him in the UK. Just because of how much he's loved and yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I just, I didn't realize how deep rooted it was. I still get hate mail now. I still get hate mail now. Yeah, you could have had the exact same show under a different name if people would have loved it. Yeah. Yeah. And I think we made some good films. And I love what I did.

But even if we made a good film, it was always shit because it wasn't Jeremy. I really enjoyed it though. I enjoyed you being on it. You know, you're great. You're my favorite automotive journalist. Well, that's very kind of you. And I've just seen what you've arrived in as well. And I thoroughly approve your text and my experience. My not to say what it is or not. Yeah, yeah. It's a raptor R that John Hennessey jumps up to a thousand horsepower. It's fucking ridiculous.

I think I'm often asked, if you lived in America, what car would you drive? And it would always be a raptor. Come to the heading of always drink the local beer. You know, when you go to a city, don't order a hinder kind of a bad drink the local beer. And the F-150 Raptor is your local beer. Yeah, that's about as American as it gets. Dodge Rams and Ford F-150s. Yeah. Those are the most American beers. Thousand horsepower in a truck. It's ridiculous. We never thought it would be possible.

No. Zero to 60 in three seconds for a giant pickup truck. It's awesome. And it sounds great too. Just as it's beautiful rumble. Do you think you'll be allowed to drive that in ten years time in this state? No. And maybe in this state, yeah, but if you leave, they'll like have people at the border waiting in the bushes to arrest you. The moment you cross over if you don't have an EV. And you know, in California, they have a mandate in 2035.

You know, after 2035, no internal combustion engine vehicles are allowed to be sold in the state. Same in the UK, although they know it was 2035. Then the last administration moved it back to 2030. Good luck. So they're not even ready. They're not ready. The grid's not ready. I'm so torn on this because everyone looks to me as the ultimate petrolhead and I'll sit there and go, they're all shit. They're not all shit. They have a place.

And the most sophisticated assessment of this that I've come across was just a very normal person I was talking to one day in an airport who said, sure, the solution is that you just use what's pertinent to the energy that's easiest where you live. And I think it's the best way of explaining it. If you live here, you drill a hole in the ground, there's oil around here. Yeah. If you live in Iceland, you drill a hole in the ground, there's loads of geothermal. So why wouldn't you have an EV there?

It's brilliant. It's everywhere. It's quite a small country. I don't need to travel large distances. But Iceland's cold and the battery capacity when it gets really cold, diminishes pretty rapidly. Yeah, but also if you live there and you've got loads of batteries and you have a cartridge system, we can sort them in and out. It's doable, isn't it? Oh, okay. Yeah. I just think we need to be a bit clever about it. Yeah. But at the moment, the subject's approached with, this is good. This is evil.

At the moment, we live in a Star Wars reality. So effectively, you're either the rebellion or your daughter in his crew. Yeah. And you will have as well, I've been pushed into the corner of being Darth Vader. Just don't think I am. You know, when I can, I use the train. If I'm in a city, I quite like riding a bicycle because it suits me. I like it. It works. Yeah. But when I want to go out on an open road and enjoy a 9-11, I want to enjoy a 9-11. Why can't I? I don't see.

I find it very difficult when I'm told to do things that I don't think are rational or reasonable. No. I think it's a religious ideology that's attached to climate change. It has that sort of fever-pitched, religious aspect to it.

And most people, when you corner them, if they're even the real zealots, most people really don't understand how much data there is on the impact that human beings have on climate change, how much is being done in China and India that will not change at all and is only going to get more extreme. And what little impact you have for that parent of life?

That's a really interesting point because when you, it's like being a parent on the one hand, you can respond to that by saying, well, if I'm going to make no difference, I'll just carry on driving around in my Raptor. But then it could be so suggested that that means that you should make a difference.

But I find it really difficult that we can't understand that if there has to ultimately be a change at some point, if it's rational, I don't know if it's now or it's certainly not 2035, that's not reasonable. We need to prepare ourselves to make logical and progressive changes. I don't think you can mandate those changes. No. First of all, we have a long history of internal combustion engines as recreation vehicles and we love them.

And I think it's completely unfair if you're still running coal plants that power electric vehicles, which is a fact in America. They have coal plants that power electric vehicles. They do far more damage the environment. If you tell me I can't have an internal combustion engine while you're doing that to power electric vehicles, I'm going to say fuck you because fuck you is the right thing to say because that doesn't make any sense. There's also this weird thing that is attached to this.

This is a business, the green energy business. These people that are involved in the green energy business have done a tremendous job in pushing these politicians to promote this very specific propaganda about what you can and what you can't do and what we need to do and where we need to get to and what bills we need to pass in order to get to this position. And they're all profitable. And that's the problem that nobody wants to talk about. This is all business.

And like most businesses, like the business of vaccines or the businesses of infrastructure or military, there's a lot of money being exchanged and that's why it's being promoted. It's not. This isn't some completely altruistic, we need to save the world and this is what's wrong. It's not true. It's not true. I think I agree. And there are some basic tests you can apply to it.

If you gave most people that love the internal combustion engine and electric vehicle that could do exactly the same thing as well but be electric, they take it. But they can't. We cannot. The technology doesn't work at the moment. It just doesn't sound the same. It doesn't feel the same. But that's the non-infused. I'm talking about the non-infused. Yes, the non-infused. Yes, people like you and I that don't care about that.

If you gave them an electric vehicle that did exactly the same job that could do it as well and could be as flexible to their needs, they take it because it's good. But no one can do that at the moment. They don't exist. They don't exist. It takes too long to charge. You can't just pull over and charge and it takes hours. And also, there are so many other industries that pollute so heavily. Why aren't they the subject of so much sort of pernicious legislation? I mean, we talk about shipping.

Right. If you start to look into cargo ships, what they emit is extraordinary. Extraordinary. Absolutely extraordinary. Well, do you know that they, I believe it was the UN, passed some sort of regulations on cargo ships. And because of these regulations to make them more pollute less, the side effect, the unintended consequences were the ocean got warmer.

The surface of the ocean where it was measured got warmer because there's no longer a pollution layer over the ocean where these things are traveling, which is so crazy. So I know. Do you know that there's more green on earth today than there was in the last 100 years? No, I didn't know that. It's because of the carbon dioxide because trees eat carbon dioxide.

I have to say, I'm completely torn on it all because I, some days, but you know, you don't have so many diesel vehicles here, but some days I drive around in the UK and I see a diesel throwing some shit out the back of it. And I'm like, that's not good. If I can see it, I don't like it. We have a lot of diesel trucks here. Yeah, and I don't like it. I have a lot of gas in the highway and you see black smoke. And I do want things to be different over time.

And I can see that that that's the way that we might be heading. But I hate, I hate the fact that the timeline is determined by politicians while on the scientists. Exactly. And scientists are all bought and paid for. That's part of the problem too. Scientists aren't just scientists. They're scientists that are influenced by the university. They're influenced by whatever research group they're a part of. There's a lot of shenanigans going on.

And the internal combustion engine has ironically reached a point where it's really quite efficient. It's quite a clever thing. If you were to invite an alien down in that vehicle there and try and show off what we're capable of, you might show them a raptor on and go, we did that. That's a quite clever thing. But I think they'd be like, you're not using gravity. You guys just go, you just grab it. It made it be like gravity. This is so stupid. I have a Tesla.

I have a Model S Plaid and it's fantastic. It is so fast. It's like a time machine. Is it got the not real steering wheel? Yes. I don't like that. I don't like the yoke. I ordered a new one. I get it in October. No yoke. Regular wheel. Wheels better. I like a wheel better. But I get it. There's some benefits to the yoke. It's like you get a clear view of the dash. You basically put your hands on there and he's moving towards completely automated.

You can press, you press a button, it'll drive you. Just basically that. Where do you stand on that? I don't trust it. No, not away. I mean, it just doesn't feel right. But a few times I've been in one of those things with the most advanced. They've all got levels now, haven't they? And I've let it drive me. I'm there thinking I'm hovering. I don't like it. It's the exact same feeling that I got when Joe Biden was the president. Is this okay for me?

I just, I have to say, I don't, and in this city, there are a lot of jaguars with sort of radar-y things on it. Yes, yes. And I presume they're driverless, either. Yes, they're driverless. I don't want, what they're called, wave-o, wemo, wemo. So I view those like I do that sort of bloke in the corner of the bar that's just a bit shuffling, gets up, does the one-legged walk, comes back from the urinal, a bit of piss down his leg. I'm like, I'm giving you a wide-birth, mate.

Well, there was a bunch of them, and they got into a sort of a situation where they created a traffic jam, because they all came into an intersection together and no one wanted to move. And there was a bunch of them, because there's quite a few of them in the city. You'll see. I've seen several today. Yes, they cause a traffic jam. Yeah, I don't, I mean, probably one day. It's going to be the way to do it, the way to get around.

But I think you can't deny people the joy of driving, just like you can't deny people their ability to ride horses. Someone wants to ride a horse. They should be able to ride a horse. People have a long history of enjoying horse riding, okay? Let them ride horses. And I have a 1990, I guess it's a 93 RS America. And it's... Oh, I love it. It's so beautiful. Because that was the car they made here. You wouldn't allow the real nice for RS, were you? Yes. The special one.

Yes. So this one, I had a set into shark works, and they'd juiced it up to somewhere around 300 horsepower. Nothing crazy. But oh my God, it's so tactile, and it's alive, and it just... Well, when I drive it, I just, I'm smiling. I have this big smile on my face. Like, I'm on a fucking ride. I was gonna bring my guntar works here today, but it's raining. Have you got one of those? Yeah. Has it got a roof or not? Yeah, it's good. I mean, so where do we stand on the rest of the mod scene?

Do we think it's gone too far, or do we believe it's the way forward? Well, I like the ones that look old but drive new. Yeah. Because they're less dangerous. That's the whole idea, isn't it, really? Yeah. But I don't think there's anything dangerous in that 964. That's mine. That's beautiful. It's all good. How much power has that got? 460, and it's, you know, 2,000 power. I've also got to raise my hand here and say that I work for singer. So I've got to be very careful. I love those too.

Well, I actually have a little contract with them, so I've got to... I've actually professionally got to say I ignore that vehicle. But actually, I think... I love the rest of the mod thing. I think it... We might be at peak rest of the mod. Yeah. Because so much of it going on. Because it's segways into a point I wanted to make about the way we're traveling.

One of the ways I find to appease myself, if I do wake up some days and think I'm pretty wasteful individual or whatever it is, even I have moments where I think, just have a look at yourself in the mirror, just by a used car. Then you don't... You're not having another one built. There are so many great old cars out there. Right. I just go out and buy something that's 10 years old. Go and look at a 10-year-old AMG. What a machine. Yeah. And if you... That's a vehicle that's already been built.

Right. And this has already been absorbed into this weird world we're living. Go and buy it. It's there for you with its 500 horsepower. It's ready to go. Yeah. That's the greenest thing you can do is to go and buy an old Ferrari. Right. You'll do no miles in it. Because you'll never use it. Because it might work now again. It's the greenest thing you can do in your life is buy a used Ferrari or a Lamborghini. Right. It's just best thing. So, but no one seems to express it this way.

And the other way is to rest a mod. It's to buy something and make it... Make the car that you wish new car makers built now, but they can't. Because they've all been drawn into this need to spend a month billions on these electric SUVs. There's the other thing that's ironic. They're all SUVs. So you're telling me we want to have these efficient new EVs, but you're going to make them three tons. Shouldn't they be that big? No, no, no, no, there's a problem with guard rails. Jesus.

They're too heavy. They go right through the guard rails like butter. I saw that. I saw that on Instagram too. It just goes straight through it. Right through. Twice as wet. Twice the way. I do think that people love cars. Just look to old stuff. Yeah. There's so much of it out there. Yeah, and they're so good. I have a 2005 M3. It's an E46. Peacock. Peacock. It's such a great car. I know. It's not too powerful, but it's so delightful. Like, as you... It doesn't have a radio.

It's got cloth seats. I've... Cloth seats. Yeah. Yeah, cloth seats. I just bought the V10. So, you had the E60 V10 M5 over here. Crazy machine. Yes. We had the touring in the UK. They built a touring, which is a Crater State car, or sort of station wagon. And I've got one of those that I bought earlier in the year. And I'm just... Do you know what? I've... I paid £27,000 for it. I'll probably spend more than that on it already, doing... Just making it right.

But actually, the journey of just reconditioning and renewing something like that, to use for the next five years, I find more interesting than most new performance cars now. Is that a sad statement or not? No, no, because there's something about, like, seeing the improvement on a vehicle. Like getting a vehicle and going, you know, these suspension is okay, but these shocks are like, I could adjust this and maybe this and maybe I can get a little wider wheel in this and...

Hmm. You remind me so much of one of my favourite colleagues, Mr. LeBlanc, because Matt is a much bigger car-guide than anyone realises. And that's... We actually grew up in the same town. Did you? Yeah. I had friends that knew him, but I never met him. I've still never met him. He's a wonderful man and he's brilliant car guy. He would... He would agree with you. He's like that. He can never quite leave something alone. Yeah. And when motorcycles as well, motorcycles, he... I had a bizarre...

Working with him was wonderful, by the way. I loved him to bits. I'd like to make another TV show with him. I got one of these gangs that steals motorcycles. In the UK, got me. So I was doing a voiceover in the centre of London. I probably taught... I might have written this story, I don't know, told it or not. And I had a new Ducati I'd bought. I liked bikes. I'm not very good on them, but I liked bikes. And I was trying to get better. And Matt's a very good rider.

And I had this Ducati Panagali anniversary with all the... It's the kind of shit you buy when you've just got a TV job, you know, and you think you're the dog's bollocks. And looking back, it's fucking embarrassing. So I've parked it up in Soho in right in the centre of London, by the... Where the voiceover studio was. And I was a bit early, so I was milling about, wearing my leather still. And I saw this bike moving past me and I thought, that's a nice bike. Oh shit, that's my bike.

And I saw these guys all in black with stuff. Sort of tinted visors, black everything. What they do is they basically angle grind off the... The steering lock, the male part that goes into the headstock, the angle grinder off, break the steering, and then they have a mo-ped behind or something like that with a leg out and another guy push your bike away in neutral. And they get it round the corner into a van and away it goes. And they did it right in front of me.

And I... So I walked up and I was like, this is my bike. I'm not, you know, I'm small, not a very big guy. I'm, you know, I don't present any kind of a threat. And there was three of them. And I challenged them and I said, this is not on. And I started swearing and one of them had a hammer, claw hammer. And we had a tussle when the bike fell over. And as the bike fell over, I'm like, well that's wrecked that then, hasn't it? Because I could just see the ferry squashed.

And then the guy tried to hit me with the hammer. And I was like, I remember screaming, you're trying to steal my bike. And now you're trying to hit me with the hammer. And then they were like, whoa. And then they left. And I was really shocked. I'd never had anything like that happen to me. So I picked the bike up and I walked it down to the voice over studio. And I rolled it up and I walked in and Matt was there. It's a long story. And I said, well, he went, how are you?

I said, well, I someone's just tried to steal my bike and they tried to hit me with a hammer. And he came outside and he looked at the bike. He's got the most lovely, dead pan voice. And he goes, you want to get those decai-dee performance levers? Those are too long. Look at him. He's trying to mod and he didn't even care. He always got killed by a hammer. Because he's like, you obviously, tough, he's a big boy. And he's like, he's fine. But those levers are too long. They don't suit that bike.

Those levers are too long. Yeah, the mod thing is really important to me. I love it. I cannot leave stuff alone. Yeah, I enjoy messing around with stuff too. It's part of the fun of the older cars. Particularly like I have a Nissan GTR. And that is the ultimate mod car. Because they've been around for so long in exactly the same form. And there's such an aftermarket and everybody just goes crazy. Find me a stand of one that don't exist. Yeah, it's very hard to find. A stock R35, the Unicorn.

Yeah, very hard to find. How much power does yours have? Well, I got a Nismo. I got last year's model, the Nismo. So I got it new. It was still laying around. And but I got it because I know you can fuck around with them. So I'm never going to get rid of it. I'm going to keep it forever. And I'm going to juice it up to probably a thousand horsepower, something stupid. And if they make another one that will have to be a hybrid, it'll have to be. Yeah. Yeah, I don't never be the same.

I mean, they're about to do that. To Porsche is probably. They're about to do that. They're already doing that with the M5, right? The new M5 is a hybrid. I've driven that. The new one? Yeah. I'm not sure whether I can say I've driven it or not. Say it. I'll probably get it. I signed a piece of paper saying I'd get sued for 60,000 euros if I said nothing. It's, yeah, there's a point in this in this process where you have to acknowledge that the main criticism of hybridity in cars is mass.

His weight. So everyone says it's too heavy. But for me, mass is just a number, unless you can feel it. OK. It's really important. You can't just criticize something because it's heavy. You can't. Because actually it might affect the way the car drives. But you have to drive it to tell that first. That's where I have a job. So I won't talk about the M5, because I think I might get sued. But I can tell you now, the BMW M2 is a small performance car that came out, 7,250 kilograms.

My friend Tom Segura had one of those that he sent off to get juiced up. Yeah. Did you get a dinon, did it? Yeah. I forget who did it. Well, the new one came out, and it was 300 kilograms heavy than the last one. And the whole internet had a massive collective baby. And when, oh, it's fucking ruined. I ran one for six months. It was better than the last M2. Of course it was. Really? Yes. Because someone German with a massive forehead and a white coat made it that way.

Because these are really clever people. And actually, mass only matters if you can feel it. So if you drive a car and you can feel it's too heavy, fine, I'm with you. And that's the clearest to what I think about the new M5. And then you can judge it, get in it and judge it before you, before you actually, or drive it before you judge it. And that's what it looks like. Yeah. It looks good. It's a 700 and something horsepower sedan with a BMW badge. Look, 727. Where is that coming out?

The launch is at the end of this year. It is. It's a beast. I can only imagine I had an M5. I miss it. It was a V10 or the V8 one. It was V8. The E39. Yeah, I had it in 2015 or something. What was that? Which one would that be? That would have been the V10. It wasn't a V10. It was the one after the V10. Oh, that would be the F10. Yeah. The F10 M. Yeah. I have a real nerd. I loved it. I loved it. It was great. And actually, an M car should be, and your E46 is the definition of this.

An M car should be a car that the non-car nerd can't spot it from the normal one. But the car nerd can spot it just for the camber. You're about right, a little bit of shoulder. You can see an M car. You and I can see an M car from the mile. Little hips. But a civilian cannot see an M car from the mile. Especially in E46, because it's such a plain looking car. That's a gorgeous car. We actually had someone reach out to Jamie. That's how I bought it.

Because we were talking about how great they are. I was like, I love to find a low mile one. And this one is super low miles. I forget what it is, but it's really low miles. M-Tet cloth is rare. Yeah. The car's I missed out on. There was a white manual M-Tet on 18-inch wheels, E46 M3. And why I didn't buy it, I don't know. But then I suppose I could say that about a thousand cars that I wish I'd bought, or I hadn't sold. I wish you never sold that green Porsche. Do you know what?

I know who owns it. Yeah. It appears in the UK now and again, and I see it. It was a cool thing. But I had to realise early on that I couldn't afford to keep all these things. The dad thing was a masterpiece. It was lovely. But look where, that was done by Tuttle. Yeah. Right. And look where they are now. Right. Let's just come back from Pebble Beach with this GT1 amazing looking thing which you might have seen. You could go Google GT1 Tuttle. Doesn't he have a car that goes to 10,000 RPM?

11,000 RPM. 11,000 RPM? That's so nuts. Yeah. It's a lovely thing that he developed with a friend of ours called Philip Codori who obviously runs the quail. And it's a K. It's a K has, it's a very good name, isn't it? It's a 9-11 K developed by a guy called Codori. K for Codori and it revs to 11,000 RPM. 9-11 K. It's my favourite car, no you never. I've driven it. There's a video online of that in this gold thing. How is it? You need to sit down after driving it. Because it's just so visceral.

It's one of the few cars that you're aware of just how fast that crank is spinning. And you have to keep it revving. And it just keeps going. And your eyes says it's gone to weight. You've got to stop now. I'm going to have bits of metal coming out of the engine. But it never does. And it's so light. Everything's carbon. So it's about 900 kilograms. Wow. Yeah, you'd love that. That's very basic intravenous performance that is. How light did you get your green card down? Do it, is that it?

No, that's what they've just done. So Tutsil did the GT. He's just launched that at Pebble Beach. Wow. Look at that. That looks, I hate the wheels. But again, I've got to become one. I work for singer. I love singer. I love singer, too. But that's my friend Rich has just done that. Can you get me a picture of a singer? Why are the wheels so gross? Because they're supposed to look like ATs wheels from Le Mans. Yeah, let that go. Yeah, I think you might be right. But 100% right.

I was just going to be a disgusting. The 911K is an amazing thing. And maybe if I was Porsche or another carmaker, I'd be starting to cry foul. Because what's happened is the restomod thing is actually a movement that reminds carmakers that they're not being given or being offered a fair crack at the whip now. Because you can come along. You and I could establish the Monkey and Joe car company tomorrow. And we could find a car. We could say, right, we're going to make an E46M3.

We're going to buy 100 good E46M3s. And we're going to turn them into the Joe and Monkey M3. And we're going to sell them for $300,000. They're going to have a nice new interior. They're not going to stray too far from the original philosophy of the car. Everyone's going to love them. And we wouldn't have to meet any kind of crash legislation. Small would be, according to the vehicle, age. In Europe, there's even less to do. It comes under very low volume approval. You don't have to do anything.

We don't have to meet any emissions regs really in Europe. You can do what you want. But if you're a car, if you're called BMW, you cannot make that car. Right. And I'm not sure that's fair. Right. Like what Ruff does. Yeah. So they don't even, that's not even really a Porsche. Well, it has its own chassis plate. It's a really gray area. But I think it's unfair on the car companies in many ways because they can't go out and do that. Right. They can't make a resto mod.

Porsche could not make a singer. What? They could. But they have to establish a new code. Or they'd have to buy a company. But could Porsche make resto mods of their vehicles? I think they potentially could. But they'd be terrified, I suspect, of the potential litigation. Right. You know, because if one of them went into a wall, you're suddenly, you get to sue Porsche. Right.

Also, especially if you're selling something like one of those old widow makers, where people don't understand that if, I mean, I have a 2007 GT3 RS. And it's still around corners. You let off off the gas. It'll whip around on you. Yeah. The new ones don't really do that that much. The new ones are much better. They've got, well, they've got this rear steer on them, which definitely helps. But they'll still rotate. Yeah, just the engine out the back. I've added that to an old design.

It's less prominent now, because tire technologies moved on so much. Right. The first time I got to drive a lot of these things, I didn't quite understand the widow maker tag. Because they had new tires. They had these new tires. Tires are everything. Yeah. A top gear story is fairly interesting.

My colleague, who called Paddy McGinnis, who was one of the co-hosts, who's claimed to fame for me in America, he had to be subtitled in America for top gear, because his accent is so broad for the North American, he had subtitles. Because I was watching Peaky Blinders. Yeah, no, he's worse than that. Anyhow, he crashed a Lamborghini when we were filming. And it was all over the press in the UK. It helped it was read, like proper dog knob red Lamborghini. It goes off the road.

Anyhow, at the end of it all, the cars on a low loader, and I look at the tires. The 20 years old? Oh, God. Yeah. Well, that's the... It had been borrowed for the job. Old tire technology matched with age as well. It's terrible. That's the story with the guy from Fast and the Furious. What's his name? Paul Walker. Paul Walker, that's the story with him. They had old tires on that car. So Paddy gets eviscerated in the press, because you can't drive anything else. I could have been in that car.

I'd have crashed it. I could drive a bit. Anyone. You cannot... And if you get in these old cars with old tires on them, they have nothing. Yeah. Absolutely nothing. It's incredible how much the technology has come along in that regard. I'd say Michelin at its best is, you know, it's some of it's like witchcraft. If you go... If you get in a new Porsche GT3 RS now, the tire they've developed for that probably has four compounds across it.

You know, so the high-wear stuff where it needs the grip, they're so clever. They really are. The performance they add to the vehicle, no one knows. How come no one can figure out how to make a tire without air? So... It's a really, really interesting point. They must have done. It must, for me, it comes under the same heading as someone must have made a light bulb that you never need to replace. But why would they make it? Well, the tire without air thing for safety purposes.

There's a lot of reasons why you would want a tire that... I mean, I know they did bake them. They do have them. There's this tire that looks like a sort of spring. You know, the added shoe that has the... Laptop... It looks a bit like that. Yeah, I have seen those. But I suppose you're still dealing with a... At that point, it's a sprung mass, which would interfere with suspension. I don't have an answer to it. Do you think that's what it is? It's like it's heavier? I don't know.

Because there's no air in it, that makes sense. Because you'd have so much more rubber. But I think they tried to mitigate that by having it clear. So you see through it. There was some shots of one recently. I have to assume the end of your reason, there's only two reasons you wouldn't make it. One, it doesn't work. Two, it gets in the way of your ability to make money. Right. Normally the latter. Yeah, I don't know.

It's probably a performance issue, too, because by manipulating the tire pressure, you can get it just right. Whereas you're not going to be able to manipulate anything once the compound is... Exactly. Yeah. Tires are... The more you get into cars, tires are a fascinating subject. That's a good open up when you meet some of the opposite sex. But I... It's never worked for me. But actually, they are. Because they're the only contact you have with the ground.

It stands to reason that the most important part is the performance package. Yeah. F1 commentators. And I'm actually... It's slightly less so in the US, but in Formula One, the commentator spent most of the time talking about tires. Because it's the main factor. But they're not sexy. Tires are not sexy by definition. So, you know, car makers will tell you, I've got new damper systems, they've got eight settings, and we've got this, and this, and this.

They can't tell you that they've spent five years developing a tire. Right. That's revolutionary. Nobody cares, because this just looks like a tire. Yeah, it just looks terrible. What do you show on me? And when they come to replace that tire, they'll just give me the cheap one. I don't want to spend that money on that one. Right. Right. Right. So, you're experiencing a top gear. Yeah, that's interesting. So I've never really spoken about it, because I keep my mouth shut.

I like to remain dignified. It's been quite a journey. It's come to an end now. I really feel it's a full stop. The show has been put on hold in the UK, indefinitely, is the terminology from the BBC. That means it's an end. It's strangely it exists in other formats around the world. So there's been an American one. There's one in Finland. There's one in Australia. There's one in France. So the license and the brand exists elsewhere, but not at its home in the UK.

And it came to an end for me one day in December 2022, in a way that I'd like to say I hadn't expected, but I had. And I think that's the bit that I found very difficult to deal with over the last couple of years. Fundamentally, I'm quite happy to go lucky person. I'm very privileged with the life I've had. And I love the fact that I earn a living doing what I love. You must have the same thing. To wake up. What a joy. I don't push a desk. I get to wreck other people's tires.

And also my subject is one that is surrounded by joy. No one wants to hear. The last person you want to hear from is the miserable car road tester. He can fuck off. Yeah, he can fuck off. You know, and I don't want to be that guy. I hate those guys. Yeah, but actually, I'll be lying if I said, I've, you know, I'm feel good today. I've had a good few months. But the last 18 months I've been bad, because I just didn't know what to do.

Because I'd like to sit here and say, I never saw it coming, but I did. So what happened? The accident that my friend Andrew had, known as Fred, I won't go into too much, because it's sort of out there. What happened? He rolled a Morgan 3 wheeler. He wasn't wearing a crash helmet. And if you do that, even at 25, 30 miles an hour, the injuries that you should stay in that profound. I was there on the day. I was the only presenter with Fred that day.

I wasn't actually right by him, but I was close by. I remember the radio message that I heard. I always used to have a radio in my little room at the test track where I was sitting inside. So I could hear what was going on, and I heard someone say, there's been a real accident here. The car's upside down. So I ran to the window, looked out, and he wasn't moving, so I thought he was dead. I assumed he was, then he moved.

I can tell you now that he, unless he's a physical specimen Fred, he's a big guy, six foot, five, six foot, six, strong. And if he wasn't so strong, he wouldn't have survived. He's a great advert for physical strength and conditioning, because if he hadn't been that strong, he'd have just snapped his neck, he'd be dead. So I can't believe he survived. And that sort of that moment of realization that he'd survived has kind of defined my thoughts on the subject since.

Because I believe that anything after that is a bit of a bonus. He should be dead, really. And the fact that he survived it is remarkable. And it's given him and his family a chance to move on under very difficult circumstances. So that day was very difficult, made even more difficult by the fact that the build up to that particular shoot, I knew that we were, at the last minute I knew we were using a Morgan Three Wheeler. It's a very, it's a difficult car.

It's by, the name tells you, it's physics is complicated. It doesn't mean it's inherently dangerous. You just drive it according to what it is. You have to be aware of its limitations. And I think that really was difficult. There were, and you need experience. There were two people that had driven a Morgan Three Wheeler before present that day, me and someone else, a pro driver. And we were sitting inside at that time, no one had asked us anything about the car.

They just gone on and shot it without us. And I think if I'm looking in the mirror, I find it very difficult even now that Andrew, who I love to be a lovely man, he was a pro cricket player. He wasn't an automotive guy. And he was a real enthusiast. He was great, much like you. He loved cars. And he would always come up to me before a shoot and say, tell me how it is. I've got all the advice, give me the last bit of advice, and what I should do, what I should expect.

And that was the first, because of the cool times that day, that was the first time we'd never had the chance to talk about how he might approach a difficult vehicle. And that was the one day that it went wrong. I find that very difficult to live with. And I felt partly responsible, because I didn't get the chance to talk to him. But my situation, nothing compared to his. Anyhow, the bit that I find really difficult is that in the aftermath of that accident, the show was put on hold.

Andrew had to recover from frankly awful injuries and has done so, but profound injuries. We all kept quiet. We said nothing. And I said nothing, because I wanted to look after him. It wasn't my story, was it? I was caught up in the collateral damage. I lost my job immediately, because they canceled the show when my contract was up. So suddenly I haven't got a job. But again, you look in the mirror and think, I'm alive. I've got three beautiful children. I'm not in Fred's position.

Andrew and Fred are the same person. Sorry, this is Nick, no. And I just sort of got my head down. But I had seen this coming. There was a big inquiry, a lot of soul searching, the BBC's good at that. But what was never spoken about was that three months before the accident, I'd gone to the BBC and said, unless you change something, someone's going to die on this show. So I went to them. I went to the BBC. And I told them of my concerns from what I'd seen.

As the most experienced driver on the show by a mile, I said, if we carry on, at the very least, we're going to have a serious injury. The very worst, we're going to have a fatality. Let's explain to people that aren't aware of what top gear is and how top gear works. Because I know there's a lot of Americans that never watch the show. You guys do a lot of really crazy stunts with automobiles, not necessarily just cars, but big trucks, and all kinds of crazy things.

And some of them are quite ridiculous. Yeah. There was a bit of an arms race between us and maybe the other big car show, the Grand Tour, at the time, to go ever more stupid. And we did do some big stunts. And a lot of the time, the Grand Tour is the original car. Is the original car top gear, German cars and Richard May? In the Amazon show. Yeah. It's tidy. They've just ended a great show. So, and also, I'm James Mayer. So, yeah, yeah, I'm not of the health and safety world.

I'm not risk averse. I love a bit of risk. And I also absolutely believe that if you enter into a show like top gear, you know what you're taking it on. I believe that there is no such thing as great risk free television like that. You just got to, you know, I just turn up and I assess what I see and I do what I'm comfortable with. And I want to make great television. That's it. And if sometimes you got a bit sketchy, so be it. We've all done that, you know, that's the way the world lives.

And I think what happened with top gear was I saw repeatedly too many times my two co-hosts who didn't have the experience I had in cars. This is the critical thing. I'm qualified to make those decisions because I've done it a long time. They weren't. One of them is an actor comedian. The other guy is a pro-credit player. Brilliant entertainers. They were great hosts. But their roles were to make people laugh. And my role was to tell people what cars were like.

And also often towards the last year, I saw situations where it got too dangerous. And it culminated, actually, in us being in Thailand. Myself and Paddy were in Thailand. And we went, we did a go-cart race down a hill in just compacted mud on wooden go-carts, but no engines. And I just looked at them and I said, this is just this. So it's not a question of whether we injured it, how injured we get. So just have an ambulance at the bottom because something's going to go wrong.

Sure enough, I broke something in my hand, broke a finger or what have you. And I just thought, which sounds ridiculous from your background, because you're super tough guys. But it hurt. No, I don't want to break my fingers. And also, he was a shit piece of television. So I always said, I don't mind breaking my hand if we get a baffer for it or an award. But this was just the shit skit. And I ended up damaged. And it went on too much.

So anyhow, I went to the BBC and I said, I want to have a meeting with the head of health and safety because this is not good. And what's really killed me is that no one's ever really acknowledged the fact that I called it beforehand. And it's very difficult to live with that initially for me. When I knew, I thought I'd done the right thing. I'm not very good at that. I normally just go with the flow. But I saw this coming. I thought I did the right thing. I went to the BBC.

And I found out really that no one had taken me very seriously. I did a bit of digging afterwards. The conversation I had with those people was sort of acknowledged. Then they tried to sort of shut me down a bit. And then they didn't look after me at all. They just left me to rot. And I, even now, I'm totally perplexed by the whole thing. To actually say to an organisation, this is going to go wrong. And then be there the day that it goes wrong is a position I never expected to be in.

And I never want to be in again. It's strange. And pretty heartbreaking in many ways. I love that show. So did the conversation between you and the network completely stop after the accident? They just sort of left me to sweat, really. I just sat in my 11 drunk whiskey. I didn't have much contact with them at all. Everything went quiet. They had two inquiries into the accident commissioned, neither of which I had access to. I pushed very hard to access to the second one and saw some of it.

And I had this, this is one of the most bizarre interactions I've had. I sat down with Simon from the BBC, who was going to talk me through bits of the second inquiry into the accident. And I'd already been told that I no longer had a job, to be told that Topkey was done. And at the beginning of it, he said to me, I won't name him. He said, well, thank you so much for taking part in this, because it's really going to help us as an organisation going forwards.

It's like, well, it doesn't really help me. I've lost my job. And I'm always reminded of that old adage from a very brilliant BBC comedy show, which was never commissioned inquiry that you don't know the outcome of in the first place. So the whole thing, the whole situation was ridiculous. And I've never told anyone that.

I think, and I want to tell people that I did, because I, a bit of me thought, as the experienced driver, the members of the public think that I didn't do enough to protect Andrew. But I, and Paddy as well, they both experienced other incidents on that show that I think were unacceptable. And that's coming as somebody who loves a bit of risk. If you and I went outside now and there were two quad bikes, I'd happily roll it for a laugh with you. I'm that guy.

And even me, as that guy thought it had gone too far, which I think is important to say. Well, there's the problem with those shows, is they always want to keep pushing the limit. And it's generally the producers who don't quite understand the limitations of the vehicles. And not, yes, they don't have the experience of what it's like to actually be in control of that vehicle, or what is possible. So all too often, it's, can you just do that? Right. And then you want to be a crowd pleaser.

You want to be the guy that can do it. We had that on Fear Factor. Yeah. When I was hosting Fear Factor, there was a couple of times where I was like, what the fuck are we doing? Especially the second, like Fear Factor started in 2001 and went to 2007. And then we came back again in 2011. And we only did six episodes. And they tried to make it just really ramped up. And when it was canceled, it was actually canceled because people had a drink, donkey sperm.

Yeah. Which was pretty minor, I mean, it's disgusting, but it wasn't anything that was going to risk anyone's lives. But I was really feeling like, if this keeps going, the stunts are so spectacular and so big, we're launching cars through moving trains. There was a moving train. And then the train had all these like cardboard boxes in it. We launch a car off a ramp like sideways. And it goes through the train. You have to time it just right. So you don't hit the car into one of the big metal.

Someone in the car. Yeah, driving it. Yeah. Oh yeah. My experience about now is that, if you establish really big stunts that have big vision and are ambitious, they tend to come with them a level of rigor that means they are executed well. The difficult area is the kind of just being at a test track with a smaller crew. And someone says, give that a go. That's when it goes wrong. Because no one's really thought about it.

They're saying, well, we've done the risk assessment, but just give that a go while you're here. I think that goes wrong. And also, my experience, and this is why everyone that's shot with me will be or have been reminded of this now and again, close or play, end of the day. That's when it goes wrong. If you're a test track, it's just, the lights coming down, there's 10 minutes to go and the director says, just do that, I go, no. Because everyone's tired.

Someone's going to ignore the lockdown on the circuit. There'll be someone coming driving the other way with the coffee cups over there. Or is the end of the day? Right. If it's six o'clock, 5'30, I'm gone. I'm not, because I'm workshop. I'll stay around and pick stuff up. But the end of the day, when you start rushing. And I think there was an element of that day at Dunn's Fold. That was a shoot that was rushed for me. I know that that was a, we need to use this day shoot.

That's another one that's another red flag for me. We've got a day at a track, we need to fill it. Well, you've reversed engineered that. Your priorities are already to fill something up. And I look back, some of the stuff that we did on top of you, I look back that was dangerous, visually dangerous, and definitely was in practical terms. I'm very proud of, because we executed it well. Like Andrew Fred Vintoff went off a dam in a metro in the Le Carr Bungie.

It was an extraordinary piece of footage. You can see, it was just amazing film. But it was rigorous. It was done properly. There has amazing stunt crew that did it. I mean, I couldn't have done it. It was brave and it was a really memorable piece of television. That. This is it. What a legend. And he's got me in his ear. He sat like that for 45 minutes. Look how far down that is. Oh, God. And I think I'm very proud of what the team did there. And Andrew was magnificent. To fuck that.

Can you imagine? For. Look how far down that is. Because if it goes wrong, you're dead. Yeah. And he's got that chirpy little shit in his ear as well. I think, and there is, there's other stuff that we did that I can't understand what we were doing. So we also did, and you won't find this. I think they've removed it from you, shit. But they say, oh my God. How about that? That's so insane. How about that? Look at what he goes over his self like that. Oh my God. That is so ridiculous.

And then the yank. Oh. But that, do you know what? When I said to you earlier, I've bit of me regrets doing it. I look at that and I think, what I think to have been part of. It's ridiculous. And I'm proud of that stuff. One thing we did do, which again, on reflection, was just madness. There are these guys that go to motorcycle meets and shows in the UK that have these titanium skid plates on their boots. And they hold onto the back of the bike. You might have seen them.

And they go really fast. And the sparks go out of the back. And we decided we'd be going to do if we did this. So each of us had a vehicle we were using. Or you were the person that was pushing that vehicle. You're an advocate for that car in the film. And I think I had the new Land Rover Defender, you've seen those. I had a short wheelbose Defender. And I had to hang off the back of it, wearing these shoes. The big problem with some of these ones is that Andrew was so brave, he would go first.

And set such a high benchmark. You'd have to go, shit, I need to really go here. So he went out and did like, I thought he'd do 40 miles. No, I think he did 75 miles. No, I hang on the back wearing these titanium shoes. Anyhow, Paddy gets in and tries to go really fast. And he falls off. And he's OK. But he could, someone goes, Paddy's over. I looked left. The ambulance driver was having a cigarette at our end of the runway. And he was two miles down there.

And that was one of those moments where I thought, this has got a bit loose. If you're going to do these things, that guy should have been running parallel. Because those, and I didn't like that. Right. Although, my, my, my, my, two minutes of two miles, it's a long time. I know. Although the end of that was quite, I can give you some levity there. I did my run. I got, I didn't get quite as close as Paddy. I did nearly 80 miles now or something.

Well, I, and I fell off at the end and it hurt a bit. And I got in the back of the crew car, which I think was another Land Rover. And I was sitting there thinking, this smells terrible. Have I done something wrong here? That I really acrid smell. Not from the colon, but definitely, I thought this is not a good smell. Like a chemical smell? Yeah. And then I was told to get out. What happened was the shoes were red hot. And I'd got in the car and they just melted. Melted the strength of the mat.

Oh, wow. Straight through the carpet. And it was just smoldering on fire. I look like a shit Marvel superhero. Um, yeah, I think, um, I'm, I'm very happy and proud to have done top gear. But I, I'm so sad at the way it ended. Yeah. And no one, that's the ultimate. No one had control of that that day. That's what the insurance industry calls an act of God, whether you believe in him or not. Um, but what happened afterwards was really sad because I've arrived here. You've got your crew.

You know, you've got your people. They were my people. And from that day, I've never really spoken to them. Oh. The producers, everyone else, no one really. It just, it just went like that, bang, done. And that was, that was very hard. Because I just couldn't believe it had happened. So I was, they just gone. And you spend five, six years of your life more in daily contact with people and they just stops. I was always torn on those type of moments on top gear.

Because I just wanted to watch car reviews. I wanted to watch people have fun with cars. But then for the casual people, you have to do something stupid. Like bungee jump off with a car off the side of a dam. And it's like, I don't, I'm not interested. Maybe it's because I hosted Fear Factor for so long. I've seen so many things like that. They're not interesting to me. I want to hear a car enthusiast rave about the fun they're having while they're driving an automobile.

Maybe you should produce a car show. I've got an idea. I'll pitch it to afterwards. But you're quite right. There's plenty of market for that. There is. And actually, this is the country for it. Maybe in Europe, it's less. But I know that when we did geeky car stuff that was very, for you and I, the numbers did that. And the moment you did something hyperbolic and ridiculous, the numbers did that. But what about online? Online is totally different. Yes, right? So that's where it belongs.

Like where I found about you was online. Yeah. And I don't remember what was the first video that I watched of you, but I do remember that green Porsche. Yeah. I remember that. That's a long time ago. Oh my god. That's where I started out. And I suspect I'll return there. And I've got plans to relaunch the YouTube channel in the next month or two in this content coming. And I'm YouTube's a very different place to when I left it. And it's pretty surprising.

There's so much motoring content out there. It's almost saturated. It's very, very saturated. And there's so many different types of markets now, too. Yeah. And the algorithm, the idea of being at the behest of an algorithm is terrifying. If you've just received, you know, check from a network for six years of your life, suddenly going, oh, I'll go in with the algorithm. That's quite scary. It is, but all you need is one thing to take off.

And then all of a sudden, you're being suggested to millions and millions of people, which is interesting about the algorithm. And if you just look at one type of vehicle, then you're like, I really just got interested really recently in the Ineos Granadir. Yeah. I was like, what a fascinating idea. Take the, what a limited market, by the way, too. But actually, I want to call it. It's the only example of a brand new RESTO mod, isn't it, really? Yes. Yes. Similar.

I mean, it's essentially a new vehicle. But for the casual, it looks like a defender. Yeah. It really does. But it kind of better, kind of quite a bit better. Yeah. And, you know, really interesting. BMW, six-cylinder supercharged engine. And so now, when I open up YouTube, it's like, all the Granadirs. It's all Ineos. It's been so long. It's constantly all these off-roading Australia dudes and all these different people like sending me these things. I think you're right.

It does belong on YouTube. I mean, linear tell, I joined a TV show when linear television still survived. Or, you know, understand, destination television. Sure. It's gone now. It's gone. It's the world's changed completely. Topgist, who has a place in it, you know, many of my previous colleagues make a lot of online content for Topgill. They do a great job. There's some really good films.

But there's something quite romantic for me about the sit down squid onto the sofa with you as a family and watch eight o'clock Sunday night. It was a queso religious experience, really. But it was in a time where people didn't have smartphones. You're quite right. That's gone. That's that waiting for a very specific time to watch a program. No one is interested in that anymore. I know. It's strange, isn't it?

Because it's logical that they wouldn't, because no one has any patience because of the immediacy of these things. Yes. But there's equally something quite lovely about what we used to do. Right. I can't really reconcile it. I totally acknowledge the excitement of the new, but I'm slightly wistful for the past. Is that fair? I see what you're saying. The only thing that still exists that you have to wait for is live sports.

Yeah. So live sports, when you're watching a game, the game starts at 8 p.m., you have to be there at 8 p.m., it's not going to wait for you. There it is. And the podcast is a concept is amazing as well. I've got a bit cheesy. I have got a podcast, which, which, when's this going to go out? Is this going out a day after we record this? Yeah, pretty soon. Well, the day after that, mind you, podcast launches, I didn't realize that. What's it called? It's a really, really interesting name.

Chris Harris on cars. Chris Harrison Friends car podcast. It's cool, because I just thought, well, he's perfect. Heins to my to catch up. Yeah. So that, and that really is a nerd product. So one of the things I did, as by way of therapy, was I did a car podcast in the immediate aftermath of this accident, because I realized I wanted to have contact with this world. I think that the moment your life gets difficult, you regress to what is your comfort food. My comfort food is cars.

Right. And I love cars. They make me happy. Well, I would much prefer you without producers and network executives, and all these different people telling you what to do. I like, I like, what I like about podcasts, when I like about YouTube content from people like Matt Farah, is I know it's one human being. This is their perspective. This is what they enjoy. They really do love these vehicles, and they talk about it without any influence of other human beings.

So you're getting this singular viewpoint, which I think is the most attractive thing about it. And the thing you pointed out there, this idea of having to alter things or add sort of ancillary comedy to them, to make them appeal to the masses, is what I found very difficult on top here, because I came there as the, I arrived as the rigorous car tester. You put me with some comedians, put me with whoever I didn't need to do that. They'll do the heavy lifting, they'll make people laugh.

But if you want to know whether the new M2 is any good or not, please give it to me, and I'll tell you. Right. For example, when the first M2 came out, I was giving it to review for top gear. And I just said, well, I like to just do a review of the car. I've got a test track. I'll slide it around to tell you what it's like. Then move on, someone else can make them laugh. But that wasn't enough.

They had a section of this where I had to, I was given this sort of piece of testing equipment called the pantometer 3000, or something just made up. I had to put on these underpants, which were going to tell people, whether my fictor was moving faster in this vehicle. I don't know what it was. But I look back, and I should have just said, fuck off. Yeah. I don't do that. It's just an embarrassing moment in my life.

But that was exactly, they felt the need to augment the test with something stupid to draw in the casual viewer. And that's where YouTube is brilliant, because YouTube doesn't feel the need to do that. It can just cater for us nerds. Whatever you're into, YouTube can deliver it without someone from a network messing with it. What's really spectacular about YouTube is there's only one YouTube. You know about how big the internet is. There is in China, though. Well, that's different.

I'll tell you what you wanted. Good story about that. About eight years ago or so. I was at the Geneva Motor Show, the biggest car event in my world. And this Chinese guy comes up to me, and he's like, really, really grateful. I'm so glad to meet you. I want to say thank you. I went, why don't say thank you? He said, because you made such a difference to my life. I'm not the second coming. I don't know what I've done to you.

It goes because, you know, I host all of your videos on a channel in China, and it made me like low to money. LAUGHTER I'm sorry. Sorry. Yeah. So I did a bit of research. He has. He just, you just, you just ripped them all off YouTube and hosted them. Wow. That doesn't have regulation. Wow. He's just telling you he ripped you off. But he had, but he thought he had no, well, it wasn't like he had no shame. He couldn't even see what he'd done wrong.

Right. Right. He's like, thanks. Well, China has Apple stores that aren't even Apple. Does it? Yes. China has full Apple stores where they're selling counterfeit laptops, phones, everything. None of it is really out, I don't know though they do phones anymore. But it was all, they had Apple stores that Apple found out about. That weren't even, nothing was Apple.

It's creating content in the last 10 years has become a really fascinating situation because I'm sure you felt the same when you started out. If you produce something, you own it. By definition. Doesn't matter whether you're within a network or have you. The intellectual property in your head is that's mine. And content producers over the last five years have had to accept the fact that that is no longer the proposition. People can do what they want. You cannot, you can't hunt them down. Right.

And it's shameless. And I still occasionally get engaged. I don't look at the Instagram message thing very often. But sometimes I'll just see someone saying, I'm just gonna post this, do you mind? And sometimes I'll go, well yes I do. I went out there at three in the morning. I nearly crashed that car. I paid for those rear tires. Why should you get the chance to monetize that for your channel? Exactly. What are you offering me? Right, nothing. I just find it really odd. It's very odd.

Yeah. And it's also they feel like they can just say a few things like, hey look at Chris Harris doing this. And that's enough. I'm also, what's enough of an alteration? In their professional world, could you imagine if one of them was an accountant and I walked in and said, right, I've got my books. I can't add up. I'm really disnumerant. I'm an idiot. Just do those for free with you. Because just do them. Yeah. No, he'll say I want some money for that. No, no, no, I just do them.

Just, I know also shut the fuck up and do them. So what, how does that, no other world works like that? No, the content world is very strange. It's very strange where people can use your stuff and do entire shows based entirely on your stuff. Oh, it's just extraordinary. But the Chinese example was the best for me, though. I love that. Well, it comes up with this. He had no shame about it. But actually, he was doing nothing wrong.

Culturally, they don't think there's anything wrong with that at all. Do you remember, I mean, you have to take the Chinese coin just for you seriously now. But 15 years ago, they used to be a sort of underground recess of the Troi modus show where the Chinese car companies would be. And it was a sort of, it was a grim catacune of imitation.

To go underneath and there'd be like their version of a BMW X5, which was literally like someone had gone with a BMW X5 to draw one and done their own version of it. They would just shamelessly copy stuff because there were no IP laws over there. Culturally, they didn't acknowledge imitation. You just do what you want. I react to terrible at the time. I sort of understand now that if you don't get that from the age of one, you can't learn it afterwards. But they were shameless.

And I can remember being, again, the Geneva modus show, you'd go to the, particularly the Japanese cars. And you'd want to sit in the back of a new one. You couldn't because there'd be Chinese engineers from car companies measuring them there. You'd be like 20 minutes. They'd have these laser rules out going just getting all the measurements of the interiors and of the engines and stuff. You could go, can I look at that? They'd be there for 20 minutes shamelessly, just copying scanning the car.

Wow. In broad daylight. It's amazing. They make incredible electric cars now, though. Oh, they've stolen a march on everyone. They really are. China has made, they make some unbelievable cars. I've watched some of them reviewed online. You can't even get them in America. But I've watched some of them reviewed online. And they're just fucking fantastic. They've definitely had an advantage over Europe.

I can't say for America because you have Tesla, which is the only other global leader in that area. But the European car industry has been caught napping. And it's a bit of a worry for someone like me that I'm very fond of a lot of the European brands. But they're struggling. They're struggling to respond to this. There are boats full of very impressive, very good value electric cars that have landed in Europe in the last six months. There's also a problem with European cars.

In that European cars are always known for having a great reseal value. Like particularly Lamborghini and Porsche and Ferrari. You can actually make more money off of them in a few years than but not electric ones. Nope. That's the problem. Like electric tycans, those things are gorgeous. That's an incredible vehicle. Good luck trying to sell that thing. No one, I saw lucid airs, which is a fantastic car. Have you been in one of those? No, I haven't. Wow. I've heard the sapphire is magnificent.

It's extraordinary. You can't, you're gonna get like half the price of that thing in a year. We're just fucking nuts. I know. The tycan in an industry in the UK, early one, 30,000 pounds. Unbelievable. Someone paid 120 for that three years ago. Crazy. And still really good. It is.

But again, for particular people, maybe the thing I, the point I didn't make earlier, I have to excuse myself for a bit, Jett lad, for my confused thoughts sometimes, is that the electric car has one unspoken fact about it. It's for rich people. That's what I find quite difficult. There's a meritocracy about the motor car that I find appealing, is that you can have a Bugatti Veyron or Shiran, or you could be some guy that lives in India that's got a little thing that costs 100 quid or $100.

You're ultimately getting the same thing. You have the freedom to travel, to choose where you're going. And I think, in a, I like you, I like to, I don't want to be told what to do. And I think it's really important that that vehicle can take you where you want to go. But the electric vehicle is for rich people, isn't it? You think about it. You show me the electric vehicle for normal people. What's terrible for people who live in apartment complexes? It doesn't exist.

Unless you have some sort of a charging station where you park your car and everybody has one so you can leave it charged overnight, it's rough. But look at the cost of them. Yeah. It's very expensive. Terrible resale value. Yeah. It's a very flawed concept at the moment. But as you say, the performance of them can be your, your plan is a great example. It's a time machine. Yeah. It's a time machine. It really is. It merges in traffic silently. Like, it goes faster than anything.

It doesn't seem real. It's incredible. And I'm sent, the new one that I'm getting, I'm sending to, it's already sent to unplugged performance. Are you aware of those guys? So they tune them, do they? Yes. Because it needs to be faster, doesn't it? No, well, they change the suspension. It does not any faster. They use the same powertrain. But they change the suspension. They widen the front and rear. And they just, they upgrade the brakes. They make it much more just agile.

I think the main thing it needs is some sort of jet washable, pressure washable floor. Because I think passengers will eventually shit kidneys out. They're so fast. Yeah, well, they're shocked. They're shocked. Roadster, which is going to be insane, which is basically vaporware now. Didn't people like pay full price for those things like five years ago? He's fascinating. I know he's been on your show. I don't know what to make of him. I just love the fact that he's the ultimate disruptor.

Yes. He's come along. He's just, he's seen an industry he's gone, that's ready for a shakeup. And he's had a go. And I've been with multiple industries. Yeah, but that's crazy. But the one that's pertinent to me, I'm the two question marks most are, what do you think of the electric car revolution? And it's effect on the environment. But also, what do you think about Mr. Musk? I almost don't really have an opinion on him. I just let him do what he does.

What I do know is I'm always fascinated what he's going to do next. And that's all you need to know. And the stuff that he's produced, 10 years ago, there were not many tezes on the road in the UK. Now they're everywhere. I don't know any other vertical that's witnessed, penetration like that. If I walk into a white goods store, I'm not seeing fridges made by companies I didn't even heard of 10 years ago. But the second most expensive thing you'll ever buy is a civilian.

And he's managed to have that level of penetration. That will go down in the history books. Yeah. It's undeniable. Yeah, it's undeniable. And it's also he's doing that with rockets and he's also doing that with the internet. Sorry, bought X or Twitter and turned it into X. And that's a massive disruption. You do Twitter, whatever it's called now. Yeah, you do. So I left it because I got so much abuse initially when I did top gear. That's when I got, you know, you get. You can't read comments.

No, you can't. Then you'd get joined into conversations. Oh, shit. And I actually leaving it was the best thing I ever did at that time. And I haven't gone back because I didn't really need it to promote anything. And the toxicity was long before he bought it for me. The toxicity is just an inherent quality of people being able to post anonymously. You're never going to get away from that. But you just don't read it. That's the most important thing.

People are always going to, if you're a public figure, people are always going to have opinions of you. And there's a lot of shady people out there. And they're the most vocal and they're the most persistent. Let them talk. Do you think in 50 years time? You won't be able to post or comment without your identity being revealed. I hope that's not the case, but probably. I think they would like to do that in America. Yeah. But I think it's important for whistleblowers.

It's important for people that work in an organization. They want to expose corruption. They want to expose something. They want to expose some illegal thing they're doing in regards to the environment. It's very important. You have to have, they want to expose the government. It's very important to allow people to be anonymous. When you're in a dark place, as I was 18 months ago, you can feel that very pertinently.

There was a lot of very unkind things said about Andrews accident and Top Gear afterwards. And I did want, I thought to myself, all those anonymous keyboard warriors fuck you. I was, and you know this. I was almost at that state, which is the ultimate low, the Kelvin of human behavior, which is, I'll meet you in that car park so we can have a fight. You know how bad that is? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I couldn't do it as well as you.

But when you step back from it, Yeah, but I'm, I'm, I don't engage in any stuff. No, you can't. I never, I don't read negative things and I don't engage in it. It's just, I, I'm not afraid of it. I just, I know what it is and I don't like it. I don't think it's necessary. I don't think it's good for you. I don't think anybody gets any benefit out of it. I don't think the person gets benefited out of you calling them a coxucker.

And I don't think you get any benefit out of calling them a coxucker. I don't think it helps. And I just look at it. I do what I call post and ghost. Yeah. I post things and I go away and I don't care what happens in the comments. And also I'm very aware of bots. I'm very aware because we've done a lot of research and research. We've done a lot of, we'd have a lot of conversations and done a lot of reading about the amount of content that's on, especially Twitter, that's not organic.

And it's an extraordinary amount. There's an FBI analyst that estimated it to be in the range of 80%. 80% of all the accounts you think are bullshit. And they're used to promote specific narratives. They use to argue and shame people. They're used to attack certain political figures and public figures. And then that conversation becomes completely changed because there's a swarm of people that have a very specific narrative and then the casual person read them, well, maybe they're right.

Okay, this guy is a basic shit. I always thought I was a nice guy. And then everything changes. And just don't engage. Don't, it's, I'm interested in reading people when they're toxic opinions sometimes. But oftentimes I'll go, that doesn't seem real. And then I'll go to their account and sure enough, they have 39 followers and it looks like they're probably in, you know, fucking Russia somewhere in a troll farm.

And not a real, the panicious side to it is like all the aspects of life that we know are bad and we shouldn't go there. Me, they alcohol or relationships, whatever it is. If you're in a bad place, you're susceptible. And that's what I find very difficult about that side of the internet. Sure, if you're in a bad place, especially you after that accident. Then it's a magnet. It's like, it's just there. It's the crab with its claw open.

You're like, everything's saying, don't put your finger there. But you do. I don't. And I did very briefly. And I'm very glad. I actually, I actually left Twitter before then. But I was very, I couldn't believe some of the heartless comments that were made afterwards. It's because they're not there. It's like, it's a very inhuman way to communicate.

We're communicating in text to a person that you don't see their face, you don't look in their eyes, you don't feel the pain of what you're saying to them. It's not the way human beings are meant to communicate with each other. We were meant to communicate with each other like this. Oh, no. That's one of the reasons why podcasts are so successful.

And one of the reasons why I only do them with people in the room also, because the only person I've done without that recent and recent times, Edward Snowden, for obvious reasons. But you don't want to, that's not a good way to communicate. It's not even a good way to communicate with your friends through text message. They want to be there talking. So the person says something and go, oh, okay, I get it. So how did you think that? And it's the cadence of conversation.

And also the quality of silence and the way that you respond. And actually, I'm now going to say something terrible. My podcast is done over Zoom, but it's the same voices every week. So people become used to the cadence of conversation and they can actually, they can, I do believe relate to it, for the comments confirm that. Well, there's nothing wrong with doing podcasts or resume. The problem is with guests. Exactly, it doesn't work with guests. Yeah, it doesn't work with, you can do it.

But I know people to do it with guests and they're fine. They just, they adjust in their very good podcasts. I listen to my friend Duncan does a lot of people through Zoom and they're great, they're great conversations. But if you had to sit down and speak to a room for a young people about how to manage third party opinions of you on the internet, what would you say to them just ignore? Yes. Yeah, well, you have to be self-assessing though.

You can't be a person that is clueless about how other people see you. Yes. Because that's not good either. So you have to be a person who's objective and introspective and you have to be able to honestly assess whether or not what you've done is good or bad. And we've all done good things and we've all had bad work. And when you put out bad work and you know it's bad, just accept the fact that it's bad. Feel that pain grow because of it.

Use it as fuel to be better in the next thing that you do. And that's it. But don't wallow in other people telling you you suck or other people attacking you. There's no benefit. There's another side to that that I had to teach my other co-host on this podcast. You weren't from a media background at all. I personally believe that to ignore the negativity, you can't wallow in the positivity either. I just think you don't have the right to just pick and choose what people say about you.

You can't just absorb the nice stuff and I know the bad stuff. That's just as bad for you. Because then you're like, I'm pretty fucking amazing. Like, you know, that's bad for everybody too. That's not good. Nobody benefits from being told they're amazing. You know if you did something that's good. So congratulations, you worked hard. You put out something that's good. Leave it alone. Keep moving. Keep moving. Don't read all that positive shit and blow your head up.

And that happens to a lot of people. They get like enamored. It's called audience capture. And you see it, one of the things that happens particularly with comedians, you see especially if they start getting involved in political commentary, they start getting audience capture. Like you see it a lot with people who lean right because there's not as many right-wing voices on the internet. You get a tremendous amount of support.

All these people say, you're the only one out there speaking the truth. And like, and they're like, oh, I'm just speaking the truth. And you start believing that bullshit and then you change your perspective. Yes. Audience capture. Yes. Yeah. That's dangerous too. Yeah. When you're becoming conditioned by the environment you're in without realizing it. Exactly. Actually with an app, with a Segway back to the BBC, I've seen that with that network I work with.

I think there's a lot of high quality people that work at the BBC. And at the moment, they're under a lot of pressure. And everyone's judging them as individuals within the organization. I think the organization is that environment is almost impossible to work in now. And it's changing them. They almost have no way to go.

Well, there are also, it's like, it's an unhealthy relationship in the first place because you have executives and producers who want to make a thing, but they're not the talent. And so they're also not the experts. So they have their own ideas and they have to have some sort of an impact on it to justify their position. So you see people having ridiculous suggestions that everybody has to entertain because Bob is an executive. Okay, Bob is the fucking co-producer. We got to listen to Bob.

And Bob's got some stupid fucking idea that you have to hear out. And if you say Bob, it's not gonna work because of this, now you're in an argument with Bob and Bob's mad at you. Would you ever make television again like that? No. No. Done. I think it's... I think it's... This podcast is gonna be... He's gonna put the cat in the middle of the vision. So I've got one thing I've just done with the BBC which is not correlated, which will be my last thing I've done with the BBC. Probably.

I did it with Paddy. I loved it. It was actually about wellness and trying to, you know, which is a word I fucking hate. It's not a word. It's not even a word. It's like mindfulness. I just said it. So I apologise to you. Wellness and mindfulness have been captured, spirituality as well. It's been anything. Capricially, it's about me being... Having let myself go, I'm a shit, I let myself go. I'm a bit better now, but you should've seen me a year ago.

Oh. And we've gone off and done three one-hour shows about you. Was that in... As a response to... Yeah, yeah, yeah. I sat and I drank world-class quantities of single malt. I had made... I like a single malt. And I had built up a nice little collection. You know, a really nice little collection. I was quite... I was quite disciplined. I'd pour myself, you know, a beautiful Glen Farcoles 25. And I'd... I'd enjoy it. And I'd put it away.

I did that collection in the first month after the top gear entered in the whole lot, gone. Oh, wow. And then I slipped into the full, you know, it was terrible. And alcohols. Yeah, and I... And I... I don't look back on it as being... I now realise how bad it was. But I'm a bit of a box-ticker. Like, you have to... You can't talk about it unless you've done it. I've done it. That was the box you wanted to take. Let's try it for you and alcohol. I didn't want to, but now I've done it. I get it.

I get it. And I, you know, and also I was doing a weekly podcast. My... My sort of decline was quite publicly documented. Some people saw it. Some people didn't. But I sometimes... I see someone say, is he all right? No, he really fucking isn't. Where was I with that? But I do think that the... Yeah, that... If you start going down that route, it's a problem. Yeah. It really is a problem. Yeah, it's a real problem. I should say... Mindfulness, wellness. What other words?

Wellness is worse than mindfulness. They're both the same to me. We went to... So this show we did... All right, and this is... I'm not promoting it. It was interesting. Because I like cars. And the BBC had me. All I wanted to do was present stuff about cars. And this organisation decided to send me off to go to Sweden to see why they have a good quality of life. I know they do. I've got a lot of Swedish friends. I've been to Sweden. It's fucking great place. It was an amazing experience.

I loved it. But it didn't involve cars. Right. I want to be making shows about cars. All right. That's what I love doing. I'm not getting it on you. That's the only thing. That's the only thing being hired and doing your own thing. There you go. I'm grateful for it. And I think there's some really entertaining television. Although we missed out one bit. You talk about having to drink donkey semen. Yeah. But there's a clip from this show that doesn't make it.

But I'm given this substance to drink by this guy who's got an infish grin. And I'll do, I'm that guy that'll eat most things. You know, have you filmed top gear? Have you been around the world? You've eaten stuff. You shouldn't have eaten. And as long as you've survived, it's another box ticked. You know, I never thought I'd eat a sheep's rectum. I'd be fine. But chewy. But I was given this. This is the vial of liquid. And I drank it. And it tasted a bit like a really peaty single mole.

Imagine an arbeque that's like really peaty. I was like, cool. And on the label it said beaver. I was like, OK, what's that? And I just, Swedish guy said, it's essence of a beaver that we make liquid alcohol with. So you flavor like a shine with beaver because it was strong. And he sort of fudged it and moved on. I was like, it was dry. And it was the flavor was in my mouth. I couldn't get rid of it. Transpires, this is a secretion from the anal gland of the beaver. So I ate beaver, I drank it.

I was like, I was a secretion. So someone milked a beaver. Oh, boy. And I drank it. Wasn't that bad? What's the benefit of this, supposedly? It has some equality. And if you see the average Swedish guy walking around, you'll have someone that beaver juice. Are they all drinking it? I don't think they're all drinking it. But I think some of them are drinking it. I think so. Really? It's popular over there. It's for sale. Does that be fresh? But what happens if you get a tainted one? Here it is.

Tails from the fringe, beaver gland vodka. Wow. So that's the beaver's butt right there. And it's a gland in the vodka. 10 days later, I was in Japan doing some other work. And I remember my host saying, what do you think to that food? And what I wanted to say to them was, I can just taste beaver. 10 days later, all my old factory system, such as it is, was only registering beaver. For 10 days. Every food I ate tasted of beaver. Did you try to wash it out with alcohol? I tried everything.

Wow. It's an incredibly potent fire spinning. I didn't do that. I must try that. But thinking how did you burn it off? I don't know. I don't know. I just get a new head. Wow. So it eventually just disappeared at that time. It did disappear. And after 10 days, you still had it? It was still there. You know, when it's just there, as a sort of residual taste. I would have been so upset. Yeah. You mother fucker. You ruined 10 days worth of meals.

But also, when I found out I hadn't made the cut, I was like, come on. That's not made. That's not, I went through the voice over. And it's not in. That's so crazy. But I, wellness as a concept is something that I, as a word, I hate. And I'm proud of the show that will come out at some point. But I like cars. I want to make shows about cars. And I will go back to the internet. And I will. That's what you belong. You belong doing your own thing. Chris Harrison cars was awesome.

We might bring it back. Yeah. Yeah. I've got some, we've made some films. And I'm going to give it another month. And then we'll give it another go. Well, a bunch of people were trying all these different things. Like they were trying to monetize it. So you had to subscribe online or to access the content. We did that. But this doesn't work. It doesn't work. You lose 99.9% of people. There's too much good stuff for free. Yeah. People have, that's another thing.

We come back to that idea of this Chinese guy going, thanks for educating my children or whatever I've done. There is no monetary value placed on content now. There's a few firewall systems that work. I think New York Times and the Times in the London Times works. I pay for that. And I think they make money. It works barely. But they've had to work so hard as well. They have been diminished greatly by the lack of people wanting to buy paper newspapers. Yeah. It's been a big impact on them.

It also changes the way they do journalism. Because now everything's very click baiting, which is a real problem as well. But the expectation is that content is now free. Right. Yeah. How many listeners would you lose? Do you think if you put a paywall up for this? Well, I lost 50% when I went over to Spotify. Did he? Yeah, initially. Yeah, we lost like half. But we got it back pretty quickly. Yeah. Yeah. I think the way that we relate and interact with content is fascinating. It is.

There's a ever bigger appetite. These devices mean that the immediacy means that there can never be too much content. I was pointing that out when I first saw you here, that you have the tiniest little iPhone, the little baby mini that they know my friend Yoni has one of those too. I admire it. I admire that you don't even have a case on yours, which is even crazy. Well, the iPhones are funny thing, because it's a bit like a steering wheel in a car. That's your contact point. Right.

It was designed to feel brilliant. And the iPhone with that metal ridge is one of the most pleasing objects you'll ever pick up. So why put a condom on it? I don't. Because you don't want it to break. I want it. It's been a lot of work. And I want an unsheathed phone. So mine has a nice little kickstand. Look at this. Oh, what's that? Yeah. I was sitting in the kitchen table. But when I sit down, when I get in a car, I don't want something on the thing around my steering wheel.

I judge people so harshly when I get in their car and they have some stupid fucking thing on their steering wheel, I'm like, what is wrong with you? Who are you? Do you wear mittens on top of that? You fucking idiot. What are you doing? I've come here briefly for two reasons. One, because I want to be on this podcast. See you. The other thing I've come to do in this state, and I'm going to need some help with this.

And I'm not here for much longer, is I saw a bumper sticker advertised that I think is the greatest bumper sticker ever created. And it simply says, Texas is bigger than France. That's it. The statement. And it's for sale online. And I've got eight hours now to go and find it before I fly back. But I have to get this bumper sticker. Oh, we'll get you one. It says, it did say just says, it's a statement. It is the greatest statement made by any state or capital.

Well, it's quite a bit bigger than France, isn't it? Where is it? Yeah. I just love it. Look at that there. Yeah, it's kind of funny. It's brilliant. And I want that. I have a, I have a, we were talking about this at the beginning before we got rolling, but it really is its own country. Yeah. It's very different in the rest of the country. Yeah. It's very independent. One of the reasons is the history of this place, like for the longest time, the Comanche dominated this territory.

And you couldn't get across the land. And so the people that eventually figured out how to fight off the Comanche and settle down, they're the craziest, most rugged individuals ever. Yeah. That's the Texas Rangers. They figured out how to cold camp. And there's a photograph of Jack Hayes, who's the original Texas Ranger out in the lobby. And that's why he's there.

Like without those psychopaths that figured out a way to fight off the most ferocious band of Indians that ever existed in the plains, we would, no one would be here. So they were very reluctant to join this whole union thing. Like the fuck are you talking about? Well, so they've been conditioned to become animals, well, you know, to be extreme fighters. Once they've, once their battle's finished, they don't stop being fighters. Right. Well, it just flavors the independence of the entire state.

And the pride of the state. It's very different. How does Austin fit into that? Because I think it's viewed as this center of cosmopolitan life and within a state that's known to be a bit different. So how does that work? It's good. It's a balance. So Austin is this preposterous progressive blue city that's surrounded by ranchers with guns. So there's a saying, keep Austin weird and surrounded. And I think that's accurate. Because you've got a lot of, you know, the universities here.

You have some really intelligent, interesting people here, great restaurants, great nightlife. But also you're surrounded by Texas, Texas, the real Texas. The majority of Texas is like ranchers and small town people and they're heavily armed. That's the thing about being an English person, sorry, a British person. The gun thing is totally foreign to us. I'm not going to offer any opinion at all other than say that it's just foreign. It really is.

And at times, I'm sure people in the UK would quite like to fill the security of having that about them. But it's amazing driving around here as a British person thinking, that person at the car, it's almost certainly got a gun. Yeah, we don't have that. Well, we also have the First Amendment. And you see the consequences of not having the Second Amendment in the UK, because they can tell you, we're going to lock you in jail for a Facebook post. Yeah. And you can't really do that here.

You can't just force people to go to jail. You can't, that was the issue also in Australia. Australia, they took everyone's guns away after one mass shooting, I think, in the 1990s. And they were able to round people up and put them in camps when they found out they had a cold. It was crazy. You can't do that in America. The Second Amendment protects the First Amendment.

It's maybe what's transpired for me, having traveled here so many times and worked here, so often in the last 25 years, is that because we speak the same language and we all look quite similar, we assume our countries are really, really similar, but they're not. They're really quite different. We have a real caste system over there. You have a classist. And actually, they're both wonderful places. I love coming here. There's something about all of the states I've visited that I love.

And I have no strong opinions. Maybe this is the older you get. I no longer have strong opinions really about the way other people live their lives. So that's what you do. I don't have any opinion about that at all, really. It's what you do. It works for you. And in the UK, we're different as well. And the older I get, the more a million so I become, I think, about that. When I was younger, I would have had stronger opinions about that, but the way that Texas operates is Texas's stuff.

It's the way you do things. And I have to be here a long time to fully understand the layers of it, the nuances of it. And if you came to North Somerset where I live, there's aspects of it that look, because we speak the same language, that look like they're straightforward, but they're not. They have subtleties, doesn't it? Yeah. That's why I see it. I think maybe to come back to some of the comments, it's when people become partisan without any real information that we have problems.

I don't know how to say that. They're always giving me their fucking opinion and stuff. When they haven't stopped to consider it. Right. And that's not, I'm not trying to dodge issues here. You could probably tell, I'm not completely apolitical. I just don't like politicians. I don't care what side of the fence they sit on. I'm deeply suspicious of people that go into a career of politics. As you should be. As you should be. So I'm not, I'm not, I don't profess to be on one side or the other.

I just, all of them tend to be in experts. I think the idea that we've created a system where you get promoted because you're in experts is ridiculous. And in my world, that manifests itself in transport. I've never come across a transport minister in the UK that really has any idea what's going on or any interest or even uses fucking transport other than being driven around. They just be your crush. It's ridiculous. So that's my position on it.

Is I just sit there, bewildered by what's going on. And maybe, maybe where I am a total soft cock, is I don't have the spine to stand up and shout about it. But I just, it's bizarre for me. And that we have inexpert people making decisions for us, hence our discussion of our electric cars. But also, we have people that have the right to say whatever they want online without having stopped to think of anything that they were talking about or to research what they're saying. It's remarkable.

But there's also this, because of that, because of this shitty opinions and nasty people and all this information flowing or in and bots and all this other stuff, it makes you consider the nature of speech. And it makes you consider, like, what a, what, it gives you a choice. Do I choose to engage in this kind of stuff? Do I choose to read this kind of stuff? Or do I just recognize it for what it is? Like, I don't drink moonshine.

If I go to the supermarket and there's a jug of moonshine, I'll go, well, I need to buy that and start drinking it. No, I don't drink, I don't want it. I know it's there. I don't drink it, right? So you can choose to avoid the things that suck in life. You can, but through the prism of parenthood, I've got three kids. I do as well. Yeah, I, I, that's where it gets tricky.

Yes. And I don't know whether you've probably experienced this as well, but when I was first on Top Gear, there was a lot of hate flying around. And, you know, I was just hated because I wasn't Jeremy, which is odd, because Jeremy's one of my heroes. I think he's one of the greatest broadcasters out there. I love Top Gear. And to suddenly be the enemy was really weird. I love what he did. I loved his Top Gear. I was just trying to do my own Top Gear. And I just got shot on for it.

But when my children started taking heat for what I was doing for a living, it was very difficult. Yes. I found that very difficult. And I, I, I, It's crazy that people go after someone's kids for a television show about cars. Like what kind of a piece of shit? If I was a political broadcaster, or someone that was talking about the NRA, I can understand it. I'm talking about the motor car. Yeah, exactly. Not the third world debt. Yeah. It's a to, it's ridiculous. But it doesn't matter.

It's just shitty human beings with bad lives. They're going to affect you. When they go for your kids, Yeah. I tell you something, how about this? Never said this publicly. I had a phone call one day from the, from family home, saying that my youngest child had been out skateboarding. It's a five-masmer. No, he's me skateboarding on some little lane. I said, when I heard that, I thought, why would you skateboard there? It's really rough. You just fall over.

But two people in a car had approached him and said, and tried to coax him into the car. I turned that. It was two tabloid journalists that were trying to get some dirt on me. But they tried to coax my child into the back of the car. Oh, my God. And I, I agree with you that I want to be, have a sensible view of this world we live in.

But when you've, when you've experienced those things, or when you've had to sit down and speak to your, your kids' teachers about the awful things that are being said to them, just because their dad happens to present a TV show, it does change you a bit. You don't come back from it completely. Well, you recognize the real shit nature of some human beings. Yeah. And when you're confronted with it, we're kind of always aware there's bad people in the world.

But when you're confronted with it over such a superficial thing. You're so right. So refreshing to hear you say that. It's just a car. Yeah. I deal in the least serious subject on the planet. Yeah, but it's a motor car. It's just being attached to that iconic name. It's all it is. And then also the way that show was canceled because Jeremy punched a producer. Did you have to work with the same producer, Jeremy punched? No, he, that guy had left. I can't, I met him once, shook his hand.

I never did know he was. Come on, team Jeremy. Yeah, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's brilliant at what he does. If he punched the guy, the guy probably sucks. Oh, Jesus, I'm not, I'm not coming to you on that. I'm gonna get in trouble. But I, but I do, I will. If no one's ever really asked me what I think of Jeremy, he's just the best. He's, he's quite a fucking character. And I shouldn't, I shouldn't have, maybe I shouldn't have tried to follow him, but I wasn't trying to follow him.

I think what I, what I, I now realize I was trying to do is I was trying to be part of the solution. I knew I could do the driving bit, but I thought the other people could, could carry off the Jeremy bit. Right. And I now realize that's very difficult. Yeah. It's difficult to follow. Yeah, you're not gonna follow that. You're, you're just gonna be different. He's a completely unique person. Well, I think they did Elon dirtier than anybody ever did. Oh, they would naughty with that.

They did a terrible thing. They did a terrible thing. And I talked to him about it and he was furious. They pretended that his car died. And they did it for a sketch. And this is the early days of Tesla. When Tesla had just that little tiny car that was basically a lotus with an electric engine. Yeah. That's called the roadster. That was the original roadster. Yeah, the original one, which is a cool looking little car. And they pretended that it died on them. And they did it for a sketch.

And they got away with it because it's entertainment. And they were allowed to create a script. And apparently someone had got a hold of the script and read in the script before they even filmed it. Then the car dies. And then we have to figure out why the car dies. So what kind of an impact do you think that had on the sales of his car? I mean, how to be extraordinary. You're watching the most popular automobile show in the world.

And they say your car sucks so bad that it died when they were testing it, when it didn't die. I can't be careful what I say here. But without wanting to shout to anyone's illusions, that's the way those car shows are made. That's where a lot of reality shows are made on the board. And so ultimately, you reverse engineer an outcome. So you're being told, this is what you're going to find. This is what's going to happen. All we need to do is you've got to help us get there.

Now, in reality TV, I can understand it. But if you're reviewing a product, as you say, that tens of thousands of people make and they rely on that thing selling for their livelihood, it's not. And you're just lying. You're lying. You're lying about this car breaking. It did not break. One of the biggest problems on top gear for me was when things didn't break. So often the producers, and I understand why, they'd want stuff to break. That was the joy.

Because normally with the older cars we'd buy and mess around with. But actually, older cars are quite reliable now. You buy something and expect it the only to blow up. It won't. Well, how many of those 1988 Toyota Land Cruisers are still on the road with hundreds of thousands of miles? Well, they did a brilliant film about that. And they tried to kill a Land Cruiser and they just couldn't end it up dropping off a building. And it drove away. It's the cockroach of the car world.

They're incredible. I have a 200 series Land Cruiser V8 diesel, 157,000 miles on it. I have an 80 series. It's just they are brilliant vehicles. And actually, I lobbed the ground on it. So I'm the other day by saying, I drive around in my Land Cruiser feeling sorry for Range Rover drivers. And I just got a hold of it. I didn't read it. Yeah. But I do think that I have some sympathy for people that make television. Because if you work, they say don't work with children and animals.

But working with cars can be difficult. And I, one side of top gear that I found, unpalatable, not just the silly comedy bit, which I didn't like, was quite often you'd be given a script. I'd be given a script. And my review was in it. And I'd be like, well, I haven't driven it yet. So this is the part where you say it's great. But what I think it's shit. But I can understand why the producer and directors are thinking, well, we've got to get all this package together. That's our hour there.

That's our hour there. But we haven't stopped to actually evaluate this thing we're supposed to be evaluating. And I have some sympathy with people that make television. Because actually that bit's just that they don't care about that. But for me, that's all that matters. I want to give an honest opinion of the car. Well, that's where you shine. And that's why you should only be doing things on your own. I think I will after this. Yeah. Fuck that wellness show, too. I have to take a leak.

Let's come back. We'll take a little quick break. Dogs in cars is a good subject. Yeah. I love having my dog in the car. My dog loves going in the car. He knows we're going to go do something fun. The dog. So is it sensible to suggest the dog is the ultimate car companion? Sure, because they never upset. Yeah. They're like, yay. We're in the car. Must've been we're going somewhere. I love. So I've got a GT3 Touring 991. You bring the dog in that? What kind of dog? He's an English bull terrier.

How big is he? Quite a size. But he's with the shark face. He just looks like he's going to kill you. But all he'd do is lick you to death. He's a gorgeous animal. And from the very, from as a pup, he all dogs how access to all cars. It's really important for me. If you've got a really, if you have a car that's a million dollars, dog's going in there. I've got a car. If for me, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's the, it's close to guess the religion for me.

I love it because it's a, for me, it's a demonstration of who I am. I want my things I love the most to share the things I love the most, right? So the dog goes in it and the dog, and I love patonational cars. So my cars are known for being not that clean, let's say. They just live in them. And you know the handle on a GT3 under the bucket seat, where that lovely handle that you move to the falls and backwards. On mine, they're all chewed, where he chewed them as a puppy.

And I leave them like that. So when people get in, they go, fuck what was that? And I'll go either talk to you that. But the only time I've come to grief is that I now I'm very, I'm very suspicious of Switch gear that's laid on the horizontal because I was on a slip road in an, in an M3 of mine last year. No, sorry, no, it'd be the GT3. And I came off this slip road and I accelerated it was wet.

And I thought I'd lean on the systems, you know, when you just get that, lean on the traction or the ABS. And the cast went fully sideways on a slip road in the middle of the day and it looked outrageous. I mean, that's what I'm quite good at. So I went, well, there you go, that sideways. Well, I'm off again. The dog had put his paw on the ESP button. Oh, no. He had turned all the systems. Oh, no. Without me knowing. Oh, no. So now I'm aware of that. He's not allowed to do that.

Yeah, they shouldn't be right there. But I suddenly thought that's, there he is. So, oh, what a cutie. That's in the back of the M5, the V10 M5. That's Pip Dog. Oh, that's nice. He's an absolute legend here. But he's a great dog companion. No dog sickness. I just love going crazy with it. Well, as long as they're accustomed to it, that's the thing. Yeah. When I have had dogs in the past that I didn't take in cars often, they take them in a car, they're kind of freaking out. Why are we moving?

They start throwing up. But it's awful. I don't want to see a dog like that. No one's seeing animals stress. Right. And I have rejected cars because my dogs didn't like them. I had a thing called a gut. I had to think, I bought a borough one and I bought a golf r estate. It was, I'm not sure you got them over here, but they did a conby sort of station wagon. You've got, there's a theme here. I love station wagons. Why do you like station wagons?

I think long roofs and curtailed arsees look better. Really? Yeah, the three box thing doesn't do it as much for me. I like long down. I don't know why. I think they look gross. Yeah. I see them and I'm like, why don't you do it to that fucking thing? So I bought, so this is the new one. I bought the old one. So you type in, the click in 2015 golf r estate there. And I, and I, anyone of those, yeah, that was it. So I went and bought one of these. That'll be good.

And that's not too showy and it'll do a job. And at that point, I had my old dog boss, Vimerana. And I put him in the back. And he just got out again. And I was like, he hasn't done that before. Put him in the back again. And he was quite evident he did not like the car. I don't know why. I don't know why. So you didn't like the car because he didn't like the car. So I took the car back and the guy, he saw it and said, well, spot, I said, dog doesn't like it.

And he went, what the dog, what do you mean? I said, what? The dog doesn't like it. I can't live with it because the dog lives with me. So he goes. Wow. Yeah, no, the dogs are going to die. What could it possibly have been? Who knows? Dogs. Dogs are, as we know, the most incredible things. We don't deserve them. They are wonderful. But they see and they perceive things differently to us. He knew.

It could be that he didn't like the cologne that the German guy that assembled the boot interior with. You know, dogs, dogs, opera and level of perception, we can't even understand. Right. So I, yeah, your fascination with bears, could a man be beaten up by a good a man? The feet of bear. I always love that. It's like, well, what you're thinking of. I love, I often like walking around trying to think what my dog's saying of a situation. It's smelling.

Oh, there must be smelling just so many different things. I know. They apparently can, if you have a hamburger that has like cheese, pickles, onions, ketchup, they can smell all the individual items in the hamburger. They smell everything. They have like a reference of discernibility. Yeah, it's just very different than ours. So do they have like terminator vision? Is there red code going across and they're like, because they have no language too, right?

So it's all on instincts, which is fascinating. Because, you know, nobody taught my dog to pee on things. He just knows that you step, what's this? Peas on it, you know? When I like take them on trails and he finds out where are all the other dogs are peed, like, oh, I don't pee there, too. But my, there's an emotional sensitivity to these animals. Well, that thing, you just seen a picture of. I mean, he's, he has his bread to fight bulls and bears. That was, that was what he's bred to do.

But if, let's just say, at certain times in the month, if my girlfriend is feeling down, my dog will go and cuddle her and sit with her all night and provide heat to the part of her body that's in pain. He will do that consistently. Every single time he knows, he just knows. He knows she's unconscious. Yeah. And their empaths, especially when they really love you, there's something about them. Like, my dog understands language. Like he, he doesn't know just like sit, give me your paw, lie down.

It's good. I bet you he knows, Tony. Yeah. He knows things. Like, like, we can be going towards the house. I go, now it's going around the back. And he's, okay, going around the back. Like, he knows what I'm saying. He, he's, it's like real subtle. Real simple. I wonder if we have a project on them. Because when we were discussing earlier about some of the, any sense of being just so disappointed about our fellow homo sapiens, I overproject onto my dog.

The more I get disappointed about human beings, the more I revel in dogs. Well, they're like human beings though, in that it depends on the life of the dog. Like, people get killed by wild dogs. Yeah. Like in Georgia, some couple recently was attacked and someone who was killed by wild dogs. Because the dogs are fending for themselves. They live horrible lives. Now, people that live horrible lives are shit people, right? They're dangerous shit people.

Whereas a dog like Marshall that said nothing but love and he's a golden retriever, he's bred that way. He's just a genuine joy to everyone he meets. Like, you're my new friend. Everybody just assumes, you know, but you've met dogs are like, they see people over. They're sketchy. They're scared of men. They're, you know, those, maybe they were beaten. They're a factor of the environment. Which is exactly, exactly. Which dogs are just like us. They're just like us. You get a dog like Carl.

Carl thinks everybody loves them. And he just want everybody wants to play. And that's what he does. He just runs up to you and tries to play because that's his whole life. That's all he's ever experienced. It's been taken care of. I want some bear chat. So I have, I'm slightly fascinated by these really large bears, big greasiness.

And I do find myself sometimes before the morning when I can't sleep, googling just the size of them, their potential power, the potential statistics of what they can and can't do. Are they as orange-sparring as I should think they are? Oh yeah, and beyond. Yeah. There's a great story that you can find that's on YouTube. There's a clip of my friend Steve Rinella and he was on a Fognaq Island and they were elk hunting and they had shot an elk.

And a Fognaq Island is an incredibly difficult place to traverse. The bush is dense and thick and the bears are enormous. Fognaq is connected to Kodiak by a small land strip, I believe. It's certainly like right next to Kodiak. I might be wrong about the one. I think it may be used to be, I'm not sure. But the point is they are coastal brown bears and coastal brown bears are the same thing as a grizzly bear, but their diet is very different. So their diet is so rich and protein from salmon.

They have so, they're enormous. They could be 1,800 pounds. They could be 11 feet tall. They're fucking huge. They're preposterously big. And you can't imagine how big they are unless you really encounter them. So my friend Steve, he was the group of friends, they had shot this elk and he was filming it for a television show called Meadieder. They shot this elk and they put most of it up in the tree and they carry some of it back to camp and camp is six hours of trekking through the train.

So then they come back the next day. They trek six hours, they find the spot, they sit down and they start eating lunch. They don't realize that a bear has claimed that meat. And so the bear charged through the camp and one of the guys winds up on top of the bear. The bear barrels through the people and this guy is literally riding the back of the bear for about 30 yards before he falls off of it.

One of my friends, my friend Yannis, it is gnashing its teeth about 18 inches from his face as it runs by. Now imagine ahead this big, I mean the head is like this, isn't it? It's like this, enormous. I mean so big, just impossibly big and it's gnashing its teeth 18 inches away from his head as it runs by. He hits it with a trekking pole. Like wax it with a trekking pole.

The way Steve described it, he said, the most reptilian part of your brain is ignited where you no longer have like what should I do? There's no thinking in terms, there's no language. So with the flights, flights, full chaos. Full chaos, terrifying chaos. No one had their gun in front of them. No one knew it to do, they were all, pistols were in the packs, rifles were sitting down over there. No one was prepared. No one thought the bear was there, they didn't understand that it was there.

Yeah. I think, I think as a Northern European, we're always fascinated by the shit we haven't got. Right. And Grizzly Bears are up there with Chevy Suburbans, most muscle cars. Honestly, the idea of the other, the foreign is really fascinating for any person that doesn't have that. Sure. And it's same with Australia, you go to Australia, it's a very different thing. They have little shit that will kill you. Right. Spiders.

You go there and then someone will casually go, yeah mate, that'll, that barge you, you're fucked. You're like, what do you mean? It's a spider. No mate, Jesus, it's not like a big furry thing. Right. But in South America, it's big and furry. It's whole presentation is, I'll kill you. Right. These ones are not quite like that. Right. So I do have this fascination with this stuff. And again, that's why YouTube's great.

Because as a kid growing up, if you wanted to find out about this stuff, you couldn't really have to go get a book or, there was no VHS, you were able to blockbuster, you couldn't buy documentary or grizzly bears, could you? Right. You didn't get it. Now it's all over there. But even a documentary's not gonna do it, you have to experience them. Yeah. You have to actually be a round one and see it. Have you, so you have been up close with these things?

I've only seen one grizzly bear in the wild and it wasn't big. It was about six feet, but it looked at me so much different than any other animal that I've ever seen. It looks right through you. Like, am I gonna eat you? Yeah, so you were a food source? Yeah, are you a food source? Am I gonna eat you? What are you? One of the best things I've done with Top Gear was with Matt LeBlanc, who, as you can tell, I'm very fond of. He's just a nice great family. He had this idea around Bigfoot.

So he's a believer. It is his own way. He's not a believer, but he presents a really strong argument. I like people, as you can tell, I like to shoot that argument for the halls, but I like to apply tests to things. He's not a believer, but he likes to apply tests. He said, stand in the Washington State Forest and tell me that we know everything that's in there. And if you come from a little island off Europe, the size of your forests are awe inspiring.

And the idea there's so much stuff that we might not know about does interest me. Dear probably at one point time was something. Yeah, that's what it really is. And there's an actual animal called giganticopithecus that existed alongside human beings that was an eight to 10 foot tall bipedal ape that lived in Asia and could have come across the Beringland Bridge. Yeah, it is possible. It is possible.

And there's also Native Americans have some enormous number of names for these creatures, different tribes, so they don't have fake animals. They don't have a bunch of like dragons and stuff that does exist. It's not a mythical creature. So I don't want to pitch Matt into something. He's not some crazy believer. And actually the premise of the whole film was fun. He was there going, I think there's something here. Let's go and have a look for it.

And I was just acutely aware as we were in, we shot it in Northern California, so North San Francisco. The forest at night, there's a sketchy place. It really reminds you of just how insignificant we are and how vulnerable we are without our man made objects to defend ourselves. Sure. And I, in the context of that, a bear for me was terrifying, actually. I just thought there were creatures I'd seen on nature programs.

The other thing that was something out there that viewed me as food, that if you live in England, we don't have that. We simply don't, we don't have mountain lions. I'm not going to eat by a badger. I think the largest carnivore in the UK is where your folks are a badger. We don't have these things that you have. And it's difficult for you to understand. There's nothing that viewed me as a food source. California killed all the bears, all the grizzlies.

Well, the California state flag is a grizzly bear. Yeah. And their bears were similar, I believe, in size to coastal brown bears, the grizzlies, the brown bears that used to live there. And there's a place in California called Levec, is a town called Levec that was named after. I believe his name was Stephen Levec. He was the last man to get killed by a brown bear in California before they eradicated them. So this is in the 1800s, I guess. So they just started killing them all.

They just killed and fucked these things. They're killing everybody. Yeah, it's just killing them. You can sort to see why. Oh, yeah. The polar bear is even more mad than it's again, isn't it? Oh, yeah. Have you ever seen that BBC show where they put the guy in the glass cube? Oh, my God. I mean, what was going on there? Ha, ha, ha. That is so terrifying. The thing is just smelling meat inside that cube and trying to get through it to get to him. It's biting it.

You see, it's massive jaws and they don't eat anything but meat. Yeah. So they're the most dangerous of all polar bears. And ironically, the ones that we make seem to be the cutest. This is just, fuck that thing. How do you know that's going to work by the way? Did he try that out on a bear? It looks like a shit ex-fucking fight, it doesn't it from the inside? And this bear just gets to it. It's like, oh, there's meat in there. How do I get to that meat? I just thought so.

And we make those things out to be our friends. You know, that's the, you know, what would you do for a Klondike bar? You know, they sell Coca-Cola, they sell Klondike bars and this bear is just a fucking super predator. Balloon. Balloon was a bear. It's a system. What's Balloon? Balloon, jungle book. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's amazing, isn't it? Yeah. We anthropomorphized bears more than just about any other creature. Yogi. Paddington bear. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Friendly, cuddly.

I think, I think, because they, they do look quite appealing. And they are dog-like. Oh, they, they're slightly dog-like, snout. Sure. Shape of head. Well, we put hats on them and shit. Only you could for a, for a, for a, for a, I think, what do we eat you? Yeah, they want to eat you. They want to eat anything that's slow. I mean, that's what they're there for. They're nature's clean up crew. Friend of mine walked to the North Pole for some reason. I don't know why.

And, and he was, and he had a lot of training before. And this is a long time ago. But the, the, the polar bear training was, but he talked about was quite difficult to absorb really. Effectively, it was, that there was no, there was no gun that you could carry on an expedition like that. If you're just on your own or with three of them, it was sleds. Right. With nothing you can carry that you could immediately produce that would stop a polar bear, an adult polar bear.

So the best thing they had was a, is a short shotgun that had a solid bolt, just a solid bolt in it. And if you could get that one thing off, you could stop it. But there's no gauge of short gun that was going to stop one of these things. It was coming at you. So they carried this thing. They carried this thing that had a solid bolt in it. That's all you had. I don't know much about guns, but that's what they said they were given.

Ugh. There's some pistols that you can effectively unload into a bear and stop them. A 50 caliber stop it, would it? Yeah, well, sure. A 50 caliber, they have a 50 caliber pistol, but they have 40, you know, 40 magnums, 44 magnums. But that would stop a bear. You have to shoot it multiple times. Yeah, not one. And, you know, and like, if you have a 38 or a 9 millimeter, good luck. Good luck. It bounced right off its head. Their heads are so thick.

You could literally shoot it in the forehead and it'll probably bounce off its forehead. I mean, they bite each other. You've seen them go to war with each other when they bite each other. Oh, god. They have insane amounts of power and bite force. And they're just clamping down onto this face. And they'll do it for half an hour. Walk away like it was nothing. Okay. That versus a big gorilla. That's a good question. We've had that question many times. What is it?

I think the gorilla is at a severe disadvantage because it doesn't really kill anything. Yeah. So the gorilla just gnashes its teeth at other gorillas and makes like he's a badass and they have incredible power. But they don't even eat meat. Whereas the bear, all it does is run around killing things. It's all does. It kills things and eats dead things. And it's what it wants to do. I got my money on the bear. I love it. I love it. What I know about is cause. And I'm asking questions about bears.

But they're fascinating. It's a fascinating part of our world. And it's all the anthropomorphizing is a really fascinating aspect of it. And I think in America it happened with Teddy Roosevelt with the Teddy bear. I think that's the beginning of the end. And then Disney movies were a huge problem. Disney movies are a huge problem because all the bears are your friend. They all talked to everybody and hey, and say why would you kill the bear? Like that is a giant forest dog.

That's an evil animal that it doesn't give a fuck about you or your kids. It'll pull you out of your tent. It'll eat you. 100%. You can, and they're wonderful and they're beautiful. We should definitely keep a healthy population of them. I'm not saying we should eradicate them. But know what they are. And don't be influenced by these goddamn cartoons. Cartoons and movies, which have fuck people's heads up.

Yeah. But it's as apparent, you realize it as well, particularly in the UK, we don't have dangerous species of animals like that. But we do, through anthropomorphizing them in films and cartoons, we make things cute that might not be cute. Sure. But we have a real urban fox population in the UK. And they actually started in my hometown of Bristol, the Foxes of Clevver creature.

And it worked out that it was much easier to come into town and raid bins than it was to start their trying to find rabbits in the countryside. And these nighttime foxes were, they were very clever. No one really knew where they were there. The BBC made a fantastic documentary, I think, again, Attenborough in the early 80s about urban foxes. And they've spread throughout the UK.

And the foxes, this, you know, in most cartoons, it's a lovely, cuddly thing with the Bushy-Tarot and beautiful colour. But they're, you know, they're predators. They're a real problem for farmers. And they eat a lot of pollution. I'm not even going into fox hunting. That's not my world. But there's been a few stories recently if foxes going into people's houses and, you know, attacking babies and stuff like that. And then you see on Instagram people feeding the foxes in their back gardens.

And you think, that's not a domesticated animal. Yeah, you can't do that. You know, you've got to make a, you've got to decide one or the other. Also, if you feed them, then they become accustomed to getting food from that particular area. And then you, you kind of fuck them up because then they lose their ability to hunt. Yeah. If you do it too often, if you provide them with food every day, you're going to fuck them up.

I've been, I've just had my holiday down in Newcastle in North Coast of Cornwall, which is just one of the most beautiful places on the planet. And when you buy fish and chips from the fish and chips outlets, they all have a seagull warning now on the shop front, saying when you buy your fish and chips, protect it. Because all the seagulls just dive on people. Wow. It's like that scene in the Jurassic Park film where the tarot that tools are coming down. You've seen a seagull eat a rat?

Yeah, whole. Whole. Just throw it down. They'll do it to pigeons. They'll do it to everything they can catch. There's a wonderful Instagram clip. I'm admitting too much when I search history here. I think it's a cormorant just being given like a black oily thing, just being given fish. And it eats like five. Yeah, actually, you think that the volume of fish you've eaten there is greater than the mass of your body. There's no way that I didn't think you could eat that.

No, there's so many videos of like different birds throwing down a whole large mouth bass. And it's like, how is it even getting in your mouth? It doesn't, they have these skinny little necks and they swell up. And they have the fins popping out of the tails, popping out of their mouth. Yeah, they're pretty extraordinary creatures. And they're essentially dinosaurs. And actually, to come back to the content discussion, YouTube, whatever it is, I do love the fact it's all out there.

I love the fact it's being recorded. I had never seen this stuff. I've got a particular phobia. And it is a phobia. I hate crabs. And I'm not talking about the STD style. I'm talking about crustacean. Why? I think they're horrid to look at. I think I won't eat them. I'll eat all other seafood. I'll eat all other seafood, but I won't eat a crab. You'll eat lobster? Yep. How weird is that? I get insight into the adult brain. I hate the crab.

I also think it's a totally unnecessary looking creature. They're so delicious, though. You love them. Everyone I know loves them. My children adore them. But if there's a big brown crab on a plate, I can't even sit in a room with it. Fuck off. Fuck off. Just an awful thing. Also, and this is a good example, right? In the pantheon, in the pantheon, they've hateful aesthetics, right? Right. You have an exoskeleton. So you're inside out.

This thing, or someone who's decided that's going to be inside out. So it has a shell to protect its soft cuddly and as you describe, delicious innards. Why would you make that exoskeleton hairy? That's unnecessary. It's also disgusting. This thing has hairs growing out of a shell. What off? That's the worst aesthetic of anything. Well, very lucky. They're small.

It's also interesting that people, they catch them and snap their claws off and throw them back in the water because their claws are regenerated. And they'll grow another claw. That's from a film. That's not real. No, it's real. No, it shouldn't be allowed. In other words, it should be fiction. It's that's right. That's from horror movies. Right. Type in coconut crap. Oh, yeah, those are crazy. They're like you, like anything that you're scared of, you're fascinated by it.

Someone did some research into the claw, fought by force of these things. And they were absolutely shocked at the torque and power they could generate. Look at that guy holding one. You get a perspective. What is that? Size of that thing. What is that? Come on, that's unnecessary, isn't it? Well, so type in claw strength of coconut crap and you will be absolutely horrified at what they found. Wow. Look at that size of that thing. They are freakish. Where do they live?

They live on a couple of islands. 3,300 newtons. That's so nuts. That could take your hand off. Oh, yeah. Wow. The bite of, it's stronger than the bite of most land animals, including lepers, bears and wild dogs. And it looks like something from a horror movie. Do you know there's some speculation that that's what the fate of Amelia Earhart was? Yes. So when I read that, I just, that she crashed, got on this island and the coconut crabs ate her. That's insane.

I mean, luckily I think they clamp slowly. They don't. Yeah, but more than a leopard. What the fuck, man? So what does that thing bite through? Is that metal? Oh, they're just horrendous. There's that lovely guy on Instagram. He's a fisherman who does the experiments with the lobsters and he gets the lobster crushing claw and he puts stuff in the claw and works out what they can chop in half. I find that thoroughly addictive. But crustacea like that, that's my ultimate nightmare.

It's a hard life. It's a hard life for them, you know? Yeah. Like, and you can't make them pets. No. That's how they're wired. But the stats of that, so stronger than a leopard bite. That's so bizarre. I would have never imagined that. I would have never guessed. No. And I stay up at night worrying about this sometimes. There's something called the Japanese or the Giant Spider Crab. So what I used to go on holiday as a kid was this lovely old Victorian soil hotel in Cornwall.

It was run a bit like 40 towers. In fact, it was like 40 towers. Had the guy that run it, it was the curious guy that made lots of jokes that people found a bit rude. But he was wonderful. And they only had about three magazines in their very smelly lounge area where all the old people would sit. And one of them was a National Geographic magazine from about 1975. But I'd always sit and read when my parents were doing other stuff. And it had an ask about Japanese, these Giant Spider Crabs.

And there was just one picture of what in a tank with his legs like seven feet apart, something. Well, let me see this. And it stayed with me. It stayed with me for years. I was reading about these crabs. So I was like, how do you spell acting in the crabs? Giant spider crab. Okay, spider crab. Mate, Japanese spider crab. That's just choppy joys. That's what they're doing. Giant spider crab. Oh, the coconut crabs are from Japan? Giant spider crab. I can't believe I'm sharing all this.

I, crabs are a huge problem for me. They really are. My children know. Look at, look at this. What's that? Wow. Are those things, do they taste good? Look at that. Are the coconut crabs delicious? I don't think, I've never had anyone eating a coconut crab. I wonder why. Look at... Jesus Christ, that's insane. That's so big. I had no idea that there was a crab that's longer than a human being. Absolutely disgraceful thing. Can you eat a Japanese spider crab? I think you do.

It looks like they got my ice. So it looks like they're preparing a Japanese spider crab is no easy task. Are you guys going to find a big pot? Yeah, right. You got to break it up, I guess. Wow. Now, what about... Find out about the coconut crab. Can you eat coconut crabs? I might want to eat one. I'm going to send you a picture if I get one. I'll be glad to see that it's no longer moving. I just cannot get my head up. Can you eat them? I want... Yes, it says above that. Above that?

An Aphrodisiac. Oh, but look at it. It says, yes, coconut crabs are eaten as a delicacy on some islands and are considered an Aphrodisiac in other places. Some say they're tasty and don't need any extra seasoning or cooking and can be eaten after boiling for about 10 to 15 minutes. However, the species is threatened by intensive hunting. Poor babies. They ate a million-air heart. Who's fucking side of you on? They don't have shells. That's why their claws are like their protection.

And they mostly on one island only eat other crabs. Oh, wow. They're cannibals. Yeah. Like they read crabs, I guess. Oh, they eat other crabs. Well, we mostly eat other animals. And we're animals. Dear me, well, I've shared too much there. So that's my ultimate fear. Crabbs. I can remember several times we'd be asked on top gear when we were going away. You know, you're okay with everything. And I'd be thinking, I'll do anything. I'll eat my own feces.

But if there's crabs there, I've got problems. And only once did we go somewhere where there was... Oh, we had to go there. And we were just in Cuba filming the opening for this film. And we were in Bay of Pigs. So we were actually there. We were right there with a Maserati and an old Camaro film with this intro to a film. Totally random. Like being in Cuba. I'll give you that in a minute. And I didn't... Well, you know, I was so punch drunk with just travel and filming that I'm working so hard.

You'd almost just wake up and go, it's another mad place. I'll be wearing Kazakhstan today. Right. It's like, okay, we'll get on with it. And looking back, I think Kazakhstan for 10 days with Matt, Matt Leblanc from Friends. That's a mad thing to do. That's pretty mad. You know? But at the time, it was just like work. I know, it's a Bay of Pigs. And I looked at my phone. I thought, this is the Bay of Pigs. Fucking hell. You know?

This is where, you know, this is where it all went a bit wrong for America. This is historically quite a significant place. It had been a real problem. Yeah. Anyhow. And I'm looking around and there's lots going on. And I look left and filming the opening piece to camera, which was typically bad for me. But the reason why it was really bad was that I look left. There was a crap down there shuffling around. And I'm like, I need that. Gone. I need people that that, that big is worrying me.

That's really worrying me. I'm not, I'm thinking, that's going to crawl up my leg. That's something totally irrational. I think we all have a creature maybe, a bogie man, or a bogie woman, whatever it is, that maybe we fear. Do you have one or all? No. But I think where that comes from, I have a feeling it's genetic memory. I think that's where a videophobia comes from. And a rack, nephobia, fear of snakes and spiders.

I think, because some people, we've experienced that out of fear factor as well. Some people have a real, it seems like a genetic irrational fear of certain things. And I really feel like that is some memory from either an ancestor getting bit or seeing someone get bit and die. I think there's something to that. There's a reason why it exists in some people and not another. Because it can't be completely irrational. Right. No, I think it's, I think it's completely a genetic memory.

That's my number one guess. Cuba was fascinating because I suppose as a American citizen you can't go that, can you? Can you go there now? I think you used to be able to go there. I think during the Obama administration they made it so you can go there. It's an amazing place because it's one of the few, which is kind of crazy a government can tell you can't go somewhere like far. Yes, some of it is so close to you as well. Exactly. You can go there on a robot. It's a museum.

It's what it is. It's a fully functioning museum. For automobiles. For life in many ways. It's not something that's been allowed to develop the way that a country should have developed over the last 40, 50 years. So you have a society that has limited technology and as evolves the way that it does. And then you see how resourceful human beings can be with reference to the automobile.

Yes, it's fascinating because there's really, it's a strange mashup of weird Soviet intervention and Americana from the 50s and well, up to 50s. So they kept these American cars going that should have died. They've also got a whole load of Soviet era ladders that came in when the Russians wanted to help them out. And also that's where their power stations come from. They're power station. They have a coal-fired power station on the north side of the island.

That when it's operating has a plume of smoke that goes as far as the eye can see. I mean, it's an amazing thing. I couldn't believe it. It's sort of slightly hidden from all the tourists. Yes, it's a country that hasn't been allowed to develop at the same speed as the rest of the world. And it's what, 100 miles from the coast of the US or something. It's 90. Is it? Yeah. It's amazing. Well worth visiting if you can go just to see it.

It just shows you what happens when human beings act absurdly. Did you feel safe over there? Totally. Yeah. Totally safe. I had, I had, in many ways, I loved it. In many ways, I wouldn't want to go again. It's one of those curious places where I thought I've seen the right side of it. If I scratched too deeply am I going to see something I don't want to see? Right. Maybe that was it. Well, you certainly will. I mean, there's a reason why people are escaping there. Yeah, of course.

They're trapped. They're trapped in a communist dictatorship. Yeah. It's not good. But as a tourist, you obviously presented something completely contorted on you. That's what happens. And then when you're making a TV show. It's also a communist dictatorship that's in a very unusual predicament because they're not allowed to trade. Right? So China is a communist dictatorship. But we buy everything from China. They're arguably worse than Cuba.

But we're not allowed to trade with Cuba because some shit that happened in the 60s. But Cuba can sell stuff to other countries other than America. So we're going to wear full of their cigars in their ramen. But not America. I think you can get them now in limited quantities. But it used to be if you got to hold a Cuban cigars, I would get them. I'm going to tell you a thing I don't know that it was illegal. I used to get them from England. Yeah. And I used to get Cuban cigars.

I had a friend who lived in England and he would send me Cuban cigars and then later he would send me the labels. So he would send me the cigars with no labels like in a ziplock bag. Send me a few cigars. And then he would send me the labels in an envelope a couple days later. The pollution in Havana was the worst I've ever experienced of a city. I think when the wind changed that power station. Oh, that blue is just blue. It's just blue. Straight over. Well, there's a place. Was it in Indiana?

There's where there's three coal-fired power plants. And if you go outside, you can run your finger over someone's windshield. And you have black cold dust on your finger. And all these people in that area have all sorts of weird fucking diseases because they're just breathing in particulates every day. We went to one of the best things I did with Top Gear again. I repeat phrase maybe only to reconsider my negativity. It was the Kazakhstan thing with Matt.

So we went there and Rory was there as well. And we ended up at Baikonol, which is the Cosmodrome, where they, when I wear the Russian space program, is based. And it's an incredible area. I mean, it's just mind-bendingly brilliant. The vastness of that part of the world, the Soviet Union. If we think the United States America is big, the Soviet Union was on a scale that you cannot comprehend. Kazakhstan was just a small bolt-on to Russia.

But in itself, has, I think, the fourth longest border of any country with Russia. It's enormous. And this area called Baikonol, the way that the Russians worked, was once they'd used the launch site, they'd just go somewhere else. It was so big, they'd just abandoned that one, move onto another one. It's a bit like rabbit warrants, you know, just move on. And they plotted all of it in a map. Anyhow, we went there.

And we watched, well, when we got close, you were aware of the amount of heavy industry. It was just the place, the first place I've been to, I thought, I'm not sure I should be breathing this. It just felt like you were breathing in stuff that was hurting you. I've been to Indian cities where there's heavy pollution, but that's just sort of diesel and petrol fumes. There's something else there, you know, you're like going, what is that?

But they culminated with us watching a Soyuz rocket takeoff. And they let us get much closer to film it than you would normally be allowed to be. And I've never watched a rocket takeoff before. I haven't been to Cape Canaveral or anywhere in the US. It was one of the most awe-inspiring things I've ever seen. It sounds like such a cliche. But watching a vehicle that has enough power to leave our atmosphere is something I'd advise anyone to do. They have the chance.

There's a sort of ripping sound in the air that people will have seen it will understand. It does feel like, just the power of this thing is shredding the atmosphere around you. And it hits you in the solar plexus. You have no control over this sort of rattling heat of chest. And I think we were less than a kilometer away from where it went off. It was absolutely sensational to witness. Wow. Just power, raw power.

And the idea that Mr. Musk has got some in it says, more power from the Saturn V about to take off. That fascinates me. All of that sort of thing is just, we talk about power and engines. Your actors got a bit of grunt. But these things, they just rattle you. The smell after was interesting. It's got to be horrible. Yes. Every time they launch, I mean, how many cars does that account for?

You think about like the amount of pollution that's put out, amount of carbon that's put out by the burning rockets? I can't even begin to quantify it. And also 100,000 cars? What are they burning as well? What's in there? What's in there? Talking about ropey fuels. I was talking to some guys that used to race sports cars. They had a lot of technology left over the second world war that the Germans had for jet engines.

They had pioneered that had weird lubricants in them that allowed them to run at very high temperatures or have properties that normal fuel didn't have. And they would use it for qualifying, particularly a Formula One. And the drivers after one lap were gone. They would just spend. There was also great stories about the fact that they would, they'd sometimes have a lot of problems and they would, they would, they'd sometimes have a sort of area outside the Formula One garage.

It wasn't as developed as a sport then, but they still had sponsors and guests. And one particular team had, you know, all the trees they put outside just died in an afternoon. Because this fuel was so obnoxious. And I think actually a guy called Andy Wallace, who's a fantastic racing driver, who's now the chief test driver for Bugatti, tells some amazing stories about literally being hauled out of groups, see race cars after qualifying. Because the fuel was just impossible, just poisoning them.

Wow. But it gave them an extra 100 horsepower for that lap. Well, how about let it gasoline? Let it gasoline has been studies that show that in the places with higher amounts of let it gasoline, there's a, you can see the lower IQ in the kids. And they think that is drop people's IQ by a measurable amount. Like people that grew up around let it gasoline, which is me. Yeah. And I think that, like during that time, we are dumber because of let it gasoline.

The pipes in our homes, under 50 years ago, were made of lead. Lead pipes. Well, my friend, Shane Gillis, is in a hilarious bit about George Washington. And George Washington had lead dentures. So he had this lead thing where these fake teeth were pre... So he had like lead in his mouth. So he's getting lead poisoning all day long. So I have somewhere in my house, something I bought from the internet, which is boots chemists.

So our chemists, your CVS, we have boots, which is our standard chemist. It's a logo of healthcare, of stuff that's good for you. Boots used to sell cigarettes for coughs. Duh. I've got some. I've got to tend somewhere. It's brilliant. So it shows you how you should smoke them to get rid of your cough. Oh, boy. So I think... That wasn't a longer. No, that's probably after the second world. No, before the second world war. Crazy. I would've thought...

100 years ago they thought cigarettes were good for coughs. Of course they did. But then someone... I just googled something like it to see if I'd find the art, the... the... the... the ad. And it... A.I. says that mental cigarettes are flavored, which to help with coughs. Oh, come on. Why? It says it can... the mental can decrease the cough reflex. Which can help with coughs. I've heard of that.

By reducing airway pain and irritation, menthol can reduce the pain and irritation caused by cigarettes. DECREASING the cough reflex, menthol triggers cold sensitive nerves in the skin, which can decrease the cold... the cough reflex, soothing a dry throat. Menthol can sue the dry throat feeling. That's funny that A.I. is willing to say something that's very un-PC. I think the A.I. fucked up here because I never heard that. Well, it's probably true. It's terrible for you.

I guess I have a smoking can make you cough more. That's so weird. Yeah. Can't you say menthol without it being in the formite of a cigarette? I'm sure. Yeah, it's a cough drop, I think. Yeah. But what we've learnt about metallurgy is... is fascinating. And it does... it does mean that that's why we have to apply that to what we currently witness in the motor car in the automotive industry. There is... there's technology out there that will change something at some point.

We just don't know what it is yet. Right. Because we're having to relearn so much of what we thought was facts in other areas of our lives. And I think maybe that's what I get frustrated by is that you can't wait for that unprecedented change to come. Necessarily, but you have to assume at some point someone's going to make a battery that runs on waspiss or... Like in water or something, aren't they? It's going to happen. Scientists are clever. They have big foreheads for a reason.

At the moment, the argument is where there's not enough cobalt or waiting in the lithium from... I had to slightly speech this argument because I think it won't always be like that. Some of them will invent something that means that we won't need the cobalt or the lithium. Well, some guy invented a water powered car a long time ago and he was murdered. Do you know that story? It's one of the great conspiracy theories that he yelled... He met with some people.

You know, they wanted to talk to him about this design and then he yelled. They poisoned me and he ran outside and died. Yeah, and then nobody ever heard about the water powered car ever again after that. So, what is all that? I don't know. Fuck is all that shit. So the mysterious death of Stanley Meyer and his water powered car... It's a wonderful conspiracy theory. I haven't looked into it enough to know how much of it is true. It looks like a Tamiya Mugla on the nath. Look at it.

It looks like the wild one. So this guy developed this water powered car that had incredible mileage. Interesting messaging on the start of the vehicle. Yeah. Jesus Christ, a lady. Oh, Jesus Christ is Lord. Oh, okay. It's cursive. Stanley, did Stanley Meyer die because he knew how to turn water into fuel? This is a British newspaper. Isn't it? The Express. Hmm. Well, was this guy back on the other... A.T.? I can't remember. This thing is ridiculous. What kind of shit website is this?

It's a really bad one. I mean, see if there's another article... I'm sure there's other articles about the car that ran on walls. This is where it happened. And outside of Columbus. Oh, okay. Oh, okay. So his bizarre death at age 57 ended work that if prove valid, scroll up? Could have ended reliance on fossil fuels. People in Newham said it's worked through worldwide attention. Mysterious visitors from overseas, governments buying, and lucrative buyout offers.

I know that. He was offered money to sell. I think the Y-files did an episode on this. The Meyer's death was laced with all sorts of story and conspiracy. Cloak and dagger stories. Gross city police lieutenant Steve Robinette. Lead detective on the case. I told them the stand had died and they never said a word. He recalled absolutely nothing. No condolences. No questions. How did it run on water? I don't know. Stephen Myers featured a numerous internet sites.

Significant portion of the 1995 documentary. It runs on water narrated by science fiction writer Arthur C. Clarke. Heard on BBC focus on his water fuel cell invention. It's a fuel cell. Okay. Who is ignored, called a fraud, and died without his hometown, even remembering him, was so much as a plaque. Hmm. But I have to believe. That a piece of technology would emerge in the next 50 years. That will make us all wonder why we all got so freaked out. Yeah. Right. Especially over exhausts. Right.

It says the basis for Meyer's research electrolysis. It's taught in middle school science labs electricity flows through water, cracking the molecules and filling test tubes with oxygen, and hydrogen bubbles. A match is lighted. The volatile gas is explode and prove that water is separated into the water. It's separated into its components. Meyer said his invention did so by using much less electricity than physicists say is possible.

Video show his contraption, turning water into a frothy mix within seconds. Takes so much energy to separate H2 from the O, Settle High O State University professor emeritus, Neville Rie. A physicist for more than 41 years. That energy is pretty much not changed with time. It's a fixed amount and nothing changes that. Meyer's work defies the laws of conservation of energy, which states that energy cannot be created or destroyed. Basically, it says you cannot get something for nothing.

He may have had a nice way to store hydrogen and use it to make a very effective motor, but there is no way to do something fancy and separate hydrogen with less energy. Hmm. So who knows? But when he said the Lord sent me, okay, now it gets odd. His first few words were the Lord sent me here to this home. I'd like to use your home as an experiment. Wait, okay, hold on.

Meyer's creativity seemed to peak when he met Charles and Valerie Hughes, truck drivers who lived in the Jackson Township, Julia Hughes, the youngest of the seven children, was five years old, when Meyer rang the doorbell of her home on Marlene Drive. His first few words were the Lord sent me here to this home. I'd like to use your home as an experiment, she said. Maybe it was just a two-story garage shop or the privacy of towering oak and sycamore trees.

Julia isn't sure what Meyer saw there, but she knew her parents didn't have room for a struggling inventor. Yet after visiting with the family for several hours, Meyer stayed the night and then the next few years in the late 1970s, and returned Meyer built the family a solar silo designed to both heat and cool the home. This structure required thousands of clear resin light guides, a crude form of fiber optics which Meyer baked and molded in the family kitchen.

Jesus. Julia Hughes recalled the chemical stench, the system was supposed to channel the sun's rays into the tower base to heat water and generate electricity for an air conditioner, despite extensive efforts that included re-plumbing the house, the invention never worked. Oh, so he might have been a cuck. Hard to tell. But... But I tell you what, you love a conspiracy theory. Oh, I love them. I know you do. I am seduced by some. Yeah. But... But I'd probably less into them than you are.

I will say this, the more you delve into the relationship between business and science, and the way that our lives run, it's very difficult not to assume that many ideas are crushed because they're not helpful for certain businesses. I think the automotive industry is, is and has been at the forefront of that. Well, the oil business. Oh, yeah. Does the oil business in general? Speaking of.

Before we go too far, one of the kids remembered, some people showed up at the house and offered him, quote, $250 million to stop. Yeah, the Arabs wanted to offer me $250 million to stop today. You and this lovely family can live in peace and prosperity, the rest of your days. Meyer told them this. The Army officials, meanwhile, had questioned Meyer about what foreigners wanted. Thinking that the deal might have been struck. Charlie recalled Meyer telling the family.

Meyer discussed the offer in the Clark documentary. Many times over the last decade, I've been offered enormous amounts of money. Simply to sell out or to sit on it. The Arabs have offered me a total of a billion dollars, total pay, simply to sit on it and do nothing with it. Hmm. Part of me goes. I think I'll tell you why.

Sure. An event that definitely happened here that did shake my, I'm less cynical, probably, I'm less likely to be as interested in conspiracy theories mainly because I, maybe I lack your imagination. I don't know what it is, but I like, maybe I'm terrified of the fact that I've been taken for a ride into my areas of my life. But dieselgate, the Volkswagen thing that happened in this country, really shook me because I didn't think something could have happened on that scale.

Explain it to people because it's pretty crazy. Well, effectively, Volkswagen were able to put software into their vehicles that allowed them to cheat in emissions tests and a load of vehicles that had stated emissions qualities didn't have them when they were not on the test rig. And actually, that process had been going on in many different ways for most motor cars forever. But the scale on which they offended, and the fact they did it in the US meant they got absent-hamored for it.

But, you know, if you have an Audi RS4 from 2007 and you start the engine up, it idles in an old way. The car feels very aggressive for the first 30 seconds that you start it. That's because there's an air pump inside the car that is basically forcing air through the exhaust faster than it needs to, so that when you put it on a test rig, it has lower emissions than it should do.

This had been going on for a long time, but the scale of it was, I suppose, an industrial sub-diffuge that I didn't think it could happen. Especially with the large corporation like Volkswagen. I know, and that did shake me because I always, I'm a flag bearer for my industry. I'm proud to be part of the wider car industry, and I didn't think that could happen. And it wasn't just a bit of naughtiness, it was lies. And how many people knew about it? One has to assume quite a few.

Yeah, you would assume. But I think there was a moral complication to it, because they were still making very clever, really quite clean vehicles. They weren't trying to cover up something absolutely hidden. They were in the margins, but it was still wrong. It was morally, completely wrong. And once they got away with it, they were stuck with it. They couldn't suddenly backtrack on it. And I think it shook my confidence in those large corporations.

I thought they were being more honest with us, and probably made me more likely to believe conspiracy theories are with us. I thought, what if they came up with that? What else are they doing? Conspiracy theories are fascinating, because some of them are bullshit, and some of them are real, and it's hard to figure out what's what. There's some crazy ones like the earth is flat, and then there's some ones like this, yeah, you might have killed JFK. And you're like, who? They might have.

They might have. It makes very good listening. I love listening to talk about it. Oh, they're fascinating. But I suppose I tend to sit a bit further back, and I'd like to hear other people talk about them. But when it enters your world, but when something becomes pertinent to you, you suddenly go, hang on a minute, what else have they been doing here? And how bad was it? And how many of them did they get away with? Yeah. For everyone that gets caught, it's not like they catch every conspiracy.

Right. There's no way. No. No, some of them sneak through and manage to be effective. Do you know the latest one about this gentleman who was a billionaire who had apparently overvalued his company and went to court for it? And the possibility of him winning this court battle was something like one half of 1%. This is Mike Lynch, is it? Yeah, the guy who just died on the boat.

And then right after he gets out, the guy who he's with, the co-defendant gets hit by a car, and then he gets hit by a freak water spout and sinks his yacht. I was discussing this over a few glasses of wine, with some friends. It's a good one. It's got Rogan written all over it. It's perfect for you. I'm not going to pass any comment. I'm going to be a softcock again, but I'm going to say that I read it and my eyes, well, my eyebrows raise a thought as things like coincidence.

Didn the lawyer die as well? Who else died? The co-defendant was hit by a car in Cambridge. So one incident was a cycling incident in the UK. A few days before. Was it a hit and run? No, they have the person that hit the cyclist, I think, they have got. But they were asking for information around it. Did the person that hit the cyclist have any connection to anybody that? I don't know. Was it suspicious? I just read it and just thought, like, yeah, I'm like, oh my god.

Billionaire, autonomy, co-founder Mike Lynch and Stephen Chamberlain's careers were intertwined for years in the fraud trial. Then they died on the same day miles apart. Well, I think, I suppose, the difficulty I have with that is, that's a tragedy. They fucked over some billionaires. They fucked over some very powerful. It was huge at Pac-O. They sold autonomy to you at Pac-O. And there was a big... He was extra-dited to the US. And I don't know. It's not my world.

I suppose the conspiracy theory thing is fascinating. But then when it's in the context of people losing their lives like that, I might want to comment because it's so awful. So awful. And also, going down on a boat right up there for me, I'm like, Jesus Christ. Right. Also a freak water spout. If you've seen the size of this boat, it's like three to feet long. Yeah. How? Yeah. How did it say? What happened? You love it. You absolutely love it.

Yeah. Because I got to think that there's people in this world that have the ability to do certain things to certain people that fucked them over. I think you're right. Yeah. And that seems like... That would qualify. We're talking about... They got ripped off by billions of dollars. And then somehow another guy gets off. And then dies right away. Yeah. And dies in the weirdest of ways. A freak water spout. How many people die every year in freak water spouts on 300 foot yards?

I'm doing my uncomfortable face. It's so out there. It's so out there. Yeah. It really is. Yeah. And I'll bring it back to something more mundane. There were quite often things that happened in Formula One. Sport that I follow the most closely probably. In the 90s and 90s. That looking back, you think there must have been someone at a button that could make things happen. Because it was so beyond the coincidence. And I never stopped to think of the implications of that thought.

But if someone could do that in a sport, they could do it in the rest of your life. And they've always rigged sports. I mean, people have been rigging sports since the beginning of sports betting. But the sport that you're involved with, you can't, can you rig that? Oh, yes. People have rigged it. People have gotten in trouble for rigging it. Yeah. Certain fighters may have an injury. There's a controversy about a certain trainer that was involved in betting. And then an online discord server.

And they would talk about bets. And he'd make a lot of bets. And he was making more money betting than other things. And there was a fighter that he was taking care of. And that fighter apparently had a knee injury. And went into the fight. And then all this money got bet on this guy losing in the first round. And so he throws a kick in the first round, falls down, gets beat up, loses by TKO, and the first round blows his knee out. His knee had apparently already been fucked.

And so this guy, who is the trainer, has now been, he's being investigated by the feds. He gets kicked out of the sport. No one from his gym is allowed to compete in the UFC anymore. And he's under investigation. And if it turns out that they're what they're saying about him, it's true, he's really rightly fucked. Yeah. I think actually, there's a crossover here between conspiracy and cheating.

Now, I think the greatest book that's not been written, and never will be written, is the greatest cheats in motorsport. Some of the stories I've heard over the years are so good. Just because what they do is they reveal the competitive nature of human beings, but also ingenuity. You will see people that are most ingenious when they're cheating, not when they're abiding by the rules.

Right. And Formula One is about the phrase that the great Mark Donahue, one of your great drivers, Mark Donahue was a can-am driver who did a bit of formal as well. He coined the phrase, the unfair advantage, which I phrase I love, because it just defines so many sports. Whether we like it or not, we're searching for the unfair advantage only. Right. And in motorsport, some of the cheats I've heard about are just brilliant. Like what kind of stuff?

So I can remember hearing a guy called Win Percy, who was a touring car driver from the UK in the 60s and 70s, describing how there was a famous commentator we had called Murray Walker. He was the voice of our motorsport for 40 years. He had a very distinctive voice. He was a lovely man, met him a few times. And he had often described Win Percy getting out of this particular car he'd been racing. It's covered in sweat because it was such a monster to drive.

But it turned out that it was a V12, and it was very, very thirsty. So to make sure that when they did a fuel check at the end of the race, to make sure they were abiding by the rules, he would be furiously pumping a hand pump underneath the seat to inflate a bladder in the fuel tank to cut off a load of the volume. So that he... And he taught this story about, I don't think I'm misquoting. He's saying, well, that's why I was knackered.

It wasn't it was a V12, because on the warm down lap, I had to pump this thing like 40 times to fill up the bladder. Wow. And there's amazing stories of just ingenious cheats. I mean, there's so many of them. I mean, former one is about not getting caught. That's really what it's about. What's the line between interpreting rules and not getting caught? And I love all of that. And I have a few times said to people I know in those sports, can I write that book? Will you tell me? They don't know.

I won't tell you any of the stories. I'll tell them to you now as a friend. But if they're ever published, I'm a dead man. Right. But are the money involved? But the ingenious cheating. I mean, in 1995, Toyota was excluded from the World Rally Championship, because it just had a brilliantly simple piece of cheating. All the cars were... The World Rally cars were turbocharged. And you have what's called a restrictor. You take restrictor.

So you actually make sure that you can't take more than a certain amount of air into the turbocharger, which should limit the power and make it a level playing field. But they created this brilliantly simple bypass valve that meant that when the car was running, the air would just go round. And the intake restrictor was completely redundant. What they didn't realize was that the World Rally Championship had a couple of situations where the cars run side by side, it would be a drag race.

And so the Toyota just fucked off in the distance. And then they went, well, they're cheating, are they? And then they found it. But it was this was perpetrated by a Toyota, by a car company. And I suppose those things I find fascinating. Wouldn't you tell them to don't get ahead in the straightaway? They didn't tell the driver's... The driver's... The coach driver didn't know. Oh, dirty. They just knew that sometimes when they go into the car, someone did that with a lever.

Wow. They didn't know. And Formula One is not big in America, which is odd. So how do you feel about it here in Austin? Because I saw it in Austin. It's amazing. I love it. I went to Coda. That's... We have that up there. That's Coda. My friend Bobby owns the place. So, you know, he took me around and showed me and we went there for the races. It's incredible. They put on one of the best races of the season. Awesome. The track's incredible. And it's so fast. They're going so fast.

It's so wild to watch. And I find it amazing how huge NASCAR is here, where they're just going around an oval. They do have some spring circuits, don't they? They do have some shorter rivals. But yeah, Formula One is more complex. Way more complex. And the vehicles themselves are so incredible. And they're so expensive. It's just unbelievable how much money is involved in Formula One. So it makes sense why people cheat a little bit.

I think it's this gray area of interpreting a rulebook that's complicated. But also try not to get cool. And some of the, just the way that they've, through the years. And it creates subterfuge. It creates games. Another great story. We covered this on top here was one of the great interpreters of the rulebook was Colin Chapman, who was the man that founded Lotus. And he had found a way in someone called the Lotus, I think 77. It was a car that Andretti won the championship in.

They had created a called ground effect. So it's now a common thing. But he worked out that if you sealed the sides of the car on the road, you could effectively accelerate air underneath the car and create a low pressure area which basically sucked the car to the ground. So you were generating downforce, not through wings, but through accelerating air under the car. By the way, any engineers listed this, I'm not an engineer, but I'm basically understanding of it, having driven these things.

But if I'm, if my terminology's wrong, I apologize. But effectively, you're generating downforce in a way that you can't see it on the vehicle. It's not got wings. And what they would do is they'd lower these, there was a sort of a handle. They'd lower these skirts when they went out onto the tracks. So when the car went out on track in the, in the, in the paddock, it looked like a normal car. But he, he, they were going so much faster than everyone else.

He needed to find a way of diverting the attention to the other teams. So what he would do was at the end of a test session, quite often, he'd have a guy scuttled from the back of the garage with something underneath a piece of like cotton or something or a blanket and run over towards a service truck. Never would see him do it. So all the teams were like, they've got a trick differential, they've got something special. But it wasn't. It was a kettle.

It was a kettle. This guy was running around with underneath the towel. Just that everyone thought it was a component. It was a total diversion. And I met the guy, the guy that used to just run around with this. He had a, he was like a, like a tea potty kettle thing. He was just told at the end of the session, put that under there and run away with it. So everyone thinks it's like a different you or something. And I, I think that's where I love motorsport.

Because it, it brings out these bizarre human, competitive human behaviors. But it's also the margins of Victor. You're so slim. If you have the same horsepower, same compound tires, just different engineers putting it all together. But they have different drivers. Yes, they may have the same tires. But this is, you know, these are a bunch of people, 400 people in different parts of the world are told that this is quite, you know, this is the rule book or where you go.

And the margin of, and now within a tenth of each other on a track. Yeah. It's amazing. It is amazing. Yeah. But they're all at it. And they're all at, they'd say there's always some conspiracy at the moment. Red Bull apparently they thought they had some special break system that they've now had to get rid of because the FAA was aware of it. Now Red Bull's complaining that McLaren and Mercedes have got flexible front wings.

It is, it is, it is the politics of the playground being played out with billions of dollars on a racetrack. And that's why I'm totally addicted to it at the moment. And how much of that engineering and technology gets to consumer cars? Good question. I think direct crossover, there's some, but not as much as you'd hope.

But it's undeniable that the brains that are involved in that sport when they go over to the road car side, carry with them a curiosity and a skill set that's been so enhanced by what they learned on the racetrack that we all benefit. I believe that. I think if you look for direct crossovers in all of these places, you come away disappointed.

But if you tell me that the person that has run Max Verstappen's car for the last three years, if he went to be involved in the next Tesla Model 3, he's going to have a profound effect on it. He's going to know shit. He's going to have a way of looking at that project that's going to make it profoundly better. I believe that. I once wrote a story for some in-house magazine, I think for BAR Racing, when they had a race team about the crossover between aeronautical engineering and Formula One.

That's profound. That really is. I mean, the way a Formula One car sucks itself to the track is an upside down plane. But there were further things as well. The carbon ceramic brake disc was developed for what? Concorde. Really? They couldn't stop Concorde. It was just going through brakes, obviously. And someone went, well, why don't we use different material for the rotor? And that's where the carbon ceramic brake came from. So there's a huge crossover in metallurgy.

And actually, to broaden that, what's the greatest legacy of your, frankly, amazing mind-boggling national sport? National Space Program. It's what we learned about materials, isn't it? It NASA served to teach us all about materials. We are benefiting now. The car, there's something about the Raptor you'll go home in that wouldn't be there if NASA hadn't needed to have some weird material with a property that hadn't been required before. I really believe that.

That's the incredible corollary of projects that are ambitious projects on that scale. It has to be with the defense department and the construction of fighter jets. Oh, aren't they? I'm just fascinated by them. We did a film with the F-35. I raced an F-35 in a McLaren speedtail. And the level of classification around the vehicle was so difficult. Because I didn't realize that we don't, there's a British government. We don't own those planes. We lead them from you. We're not allowed to own them.

Really? So the IP stays with you guys and what we do with them is kind of up to you. But we weren't allowed any cockpit shots at all. We weren't allowed to see inside of it. I just got a description from the pilot of what the aircraft could do. Well, you know, they're doing those fighter jets now with AI running them. And they beat human pilots 100% of the time in dog fights. Do they? Yeah. The F-35 was one of the coolest man-made objects I've ever seen. They're incredible.

We had to go up there to, to actually, it was a bit like that bungee jump thing. This was so serious that we had to be rigorous. For example, with the, in the theatre of war, I'm not sure you can decide whether the ground is full of chips of stones or not. But this, they have a decontaminated area. The runway has to, you're not allowed to go in there and drop litter. Because it can get sucked up when it's doing that hovering thing. So you go in there, you're decontaminated.

And we spent several days working out how to run this drag race. It started out with a genuine drag race between me and a McLaren and this F-35. And they had their data on how it accelerated. And we had McLaren there with their data. And we worked, they worked out that the car would get off the line much quicker than the plane, but overtake it at a certain point.

But I was told very clearly that I couldn't get in the wash of the aircraft as it took off because it would just flip the car backwards. And we had to sort of choreograph that bit, not fake it, but choreograph it. So anyhow, first run we did. I was told that I'd be absolutely safe. I'd be so far ahead of the plane that the plane would then be in the air by the time it went over me and we'd be away. Anyhow, first run we do, I'm like this in this McLaren, it's f**king fast.

And it accelerates and I look left and I hear a noise and there's a plane coming past me on the ground. And I thought I'm in trouble here and the front wheels of the car came off the ground. Whoa! That about 130 miles an hour. He didn't do that. Oh my god. I was fully at... Is any race and drive will tell you, and I'm a pretty poor race and driver, you know when the front wheels aren't on the ground. What do you do? Well, you just shit yourself.

And you're so invested in it, you're like, well, it's going over. It is going over. This is the greatest piece of television ever. And I hope it doesn't. And the thing just, the thing went. It just went next to me. And again, this is why I want to be someone that expresses joy. What have things to have done? And when an F-35 comes past you and it's just got off the ground. Is that a screen here? Yeah, you were. When this thing comes past you, it just started screaming. F**k!

Does it show your fat wheel? Look at that, look at that thing there. That's incredible. It's so nuts that they put you next to that thing there. And when it was right by me, a f**k, and we never showed. You're going 218 miles. No, that's the kilometer. It comes past me like that. Bang! And I just thought, and as it did it, the front wheels just went, and I thought, wow, I'm in trouble here. Wow. But the power and the sound. You know, you talk about the internal combustion engine.

Why are they, these electric things make no sound. We are amateurs compared to what they get to play with. Yeah. And they have like, look, what, 30 minutes of flight time before they run out of gas. I don't think that thing can go very far. But, you know, all this factoring, it can just, it can just decide to be hanging like a helicopter. Yeah, incredible. It's remarkable. But they don't share the IP at all. You're not allowed to, we were not allowed to see inside it.

That is so wild that it can do that. Just hover in the air like that. And shoot its draft down. Maybe that's the TV show. I just think there's a whole, there's a, is it boys toys? There's going to be more sophisticated thing. There's a whole load of stuff that's got moving past. I think you're overthinking it. I just love it. And you and your passion for automobiles is all you need. Do it on the internet. It'll be huge. I hope so. I think so. I don't think you need anything else.

I quite like those things though. They're pretty badass. If you can get a whole the one that's great too, then. With F22. If you've been to a Nashore and seen one of those. I flew in an F-A-18. Did it? Yeah, with the Blue Angels. Wow. It was insane. Insane. Yeah. Insane. Just the G for the physical effect on your body. It's so extraordinary. Yeah. No, they don't use G suits either. They don't use gravity suits. So you have to hook. It's close so you hold on to the.

I think you do that very thing. You're forcing blood. And you feel your consciousness closing like an elevator door. You see it. You see the darkness coming from the left and the right. You're fighting it off. I wasn't very good at it. I thought I'd be quite good. Because the people of our height. Yeah. Should be quite good at it. But I felt it. I got put up in one of those extra 300s. The cart, the stun planes. It's a prop thing.

But you know, they're the ones that these and the red ball air races. And I, once he got to sort of six, seven Gs. Yeah. I started to see. Yeah, you have to fight it off. I think I got to seven and a half Gs. But those guys can go to like nine, ten Gs like that. It's fucking insane. The pressure and the maneuverability of these things. The pilot took me through like this canyon. And you're, you know, a hundred, two hundred feet off the ground. Just flying through this canyon sideways.

It's fucking insane. It's insane. I did a ridiculous film looking back with a guy called Andy Green. Do you know who Andy Green is? No. Fastest man on earth. He still holds the world's land speed record. So he drove thrust SSC. He was the first man to go supersonic in a car. And they had this thing called bloodhound. And this is the last thing I'll boy with on this broadcast. So they had this thing called bloodhound, which was supposed to go a thousand miles an hour.

And they were going to drive it in on some salt flats or some, something that dried out in South Africa, I think. Anyhow, it was, it was supposed to be fun to buy industry. They lost all their sponsors and they decided to try and publicly fund it. And they couldn't. And Andy, during that phase, said, I've got an extra 300. He's an ex pilot, fighter pilot, because any people that can drive these things, race drivers, are useless because the decision making so quick and profound.

They identified early on, they need pilots, not racing drivers. He said, I've got an extra 300. And this car has got various stages of propulsion. You start off with a jet, then it goes to a rocket. And he goes, he has madness. He goes, I've got an extra 300. And I've developed a way of doing aeronaut, aerobatic moves that will demonstrate the change in GeForce during the run. So he's put, there's a, it's a boy yourself with it.

He's put, he's put, there's a film, if you type in my name, type in my name and his name. And he'll, he'll, there's a film on YouTube of him taking me up in this stunt plane to put me through the G's that he'll have in the part. And I honestly, by the end of it, how fast did he go in this thing? Oh my god, look at that. He had over 600 miles an hour. Look at it. That was in the US. Wow. So he, and he, but the way he put me through the G forces, I would have been a terrible fighter pilot.

I couldn't, I kept getting gray, I kept growing out, I was pumping it up. Yeah, well those guys are all jacked. That's one thing I found out about the blue angels they had. Like when you go to their training facility, there's weightlifting equipment everywhere. You have to have muscles because you have to, you're literally, it's like brute force. But you should have been brilliant at it then. Yeah, it's not fun. It's a lot of work.

So when I do some YouTube videos because, can I come and drag you into a car? Yes, let's do it. I'm in. Let's go. I love talking to you. I love talking to you too. Thanks for being here, man. It's great to see you again. After all these years. I'll be back in 10 years. No, let's have a quicker. And let's definitely get you on YouTube on the internet. Do your own thing. It'll happen soon. You don't need other people. Fuck those people. Yeah. Bye, everybody.