The Joe Rogan Experience by Joe Rogan Park Gas by Night All Day How you doing? What's going on, man? Good to see you. 10th episode. Crazy! I'm believing. What are the odds? Short of your regular crew. Am I in the... Yeah, you're in the same... There's very few people that have had 10 episodes. It's a small handful for sure. I mean, I should put that as the top thing on my CV. Oh, the other stuff is bullshit. 10th time on Joe Rogan. Drop the mic. This is how out of the corporate world I am.
I don't even know what a CV is. I don't know what it stands for. I know people say it. I know what it means, but I don't know what it stands for. Well, let me tell you what an academic CV looks like. What is a stand for? A curriculum Vita. You basically, in academia, you'll start with your education, all your degrees, all of your positions that you've held. I was assistant professor here from here then.
Then all of your journal publications, all of your books, all of your conference art, you know, on a so on. Right. So it can end up being a pretty beefy CV. I think mine is about 47 pages long. Oh my goodness. Look at you. You accomplished that. Speaking of words and managed to stay logical. How did you do that? Oh, you know, a new book dropping dropping on May 14th on happiness. You know, sad truth, two A's about happiness and eight secrets for leading a good life.
Enjoy it. How have I been so productive? How have you managed to, I mean, people have got to know it to you. You've somehow another avoided like a full scale cancellation. Well, with your positions, it's kind of amazing. It truly is. I'm kind of like the velcro, is it velcro, Don, the teflon, the velcro, the opposite. Right, right. Nothing sticks. They've tried to cancel me in all sorts of ways.
But that speaks, by the way, to one of the powerful reasons why tenure, despite the fact that a lot of people despise the concept of tenure. Oh, it's just a bunch of lazy academics who are going to be deadwood for the next 30 years. But if I didn't have the protection of tenure, I'd be gone long ago. Now, that doesn't mean that I still haven't suffered many consequences. So I haven't gotten other jobs that I would have otherwise gotten because of how irreverent I am.
You know, the death threats. So now after October 7th, it's almost became impossible for me to go on campus. Because first of all, you know, I'm high profile. My university has a particular demographic reality. And so there are consequences to speaking out. So you can't go on campus literally? I mean, I have gone, but during the points when there were a lot of protests outside, you know, the campus and so on, or on campus. So it's hard to say where the school begins and where the city is.
You know, you have death to Jews and the free Palestine and the father and from the river to the sea. And there's 800 of them screaming and you're going to come in. Many of them know who you are. They know that I'm not very supportive of their positions. But you know, the challenging. So on a few cases, I did it via Zoom. Other times I had to have security with me. So I would have to check into security and they'd have to walk with me to class.
So that's not a good thing. I'll tell you another quick story. Please about what happened after October 7th. So I'll first talk about what happened in Lebanon. So the day that we escaped from Lebanon for those of your viewers who don't know about us, we're Lebanese Jews. We're there until the start of the Civil War. We were there in the first year of the Civil War.
And then we had to leave because if we came impossible to be Jewish in Lebanon, when we left that day, it was from Beirut to Copenhagen, Copenhagen to Montreal. As we cleared the airspace of Lebanon, the captain, I discussed this in chapter one of my previous book, The Paracetic Mind. He said, okay, we're now out of Lebanese airspace. And so my wife, my mother, pulls out a pendulum with a star of David, puts it around me, my neck, and says, now you can wear this.
Be proud and not hide your identity. Now, that's in the past, but now I'm going to link it to the current reality. About three weeks after October 7th, my wife and son came to pick me up from a cafe where I was working on my laptop. My wife had picked up my son who was playing a soccer match in the east and the city. And so as I got into the car, he says, daddy, if you had come to where I was playing soccer today and you were wearing a star of David, you'd be dead.
So 1975, a star of David has put around me, and now I can wear it proudly. 45 years later, I better not wear a star of David in Montreal Canada. That doesn't both too well, do you? I'm not talking again. Because the demographic reality in that neighborhood is such that a star of David would be viewed as provocative incitement. What's crazy to me is regardless of how you feel about how the Israeli military and the army is pursuing the war in Gaza, regardless of that.
The blatant, just out in the open anti-Semitism that we see today is like nothing I've ever seen before. Like like roaches coming out of the woodwork. Like what? Like you see it all over social media. And it's like this. If this was September and not October, like if this is just you would be you would be shunned. Everybody would be like, this is horrible. How the fuck could you say this? How you're openly anti-Semitic? You're openly blaming the Jews for all the world's problem. This is crazy.
This is Nazi shit. And yet you're seeing it everywhere now. When those teachers were in front of Congress, when those principles of those universities were in front of Congress. And they were saying that it's not harassment to say justice to the Jews unless it's actionable. Which is the craziest mental verbal gymnastics I have ever heard anyone say that's in that position.
And a position of being the head of Harvard, it was so crazy to watch. It's so crazy. It's almost like we live in an alternative timeline. Like we entered into a new dimension. Like in our sleep, we woke up. We were in a new place. You know, nothing should surprise me given the history that I have growing up in the Middle East. But I was taken aback after October 7th at the Jew hatred that I was exposed to.
Now, my positions are really not in flammatory. So for example, I'll say things like, you know, I'm worried about my, I have a lot of extended family in Israel. So after the October 7th happened, for me to just kind of call around to make sure that none of my cousins and their children and some so no one was harmed will take a while.
Well, that itself, the fact that I cared about my family was incitement was I'm a Zionist. I'm a baby killer, right? I am personally responsible for the IDF killing any innocent children. But it's not just that it's coming at you from all directions. So in the past, you could say, okay, Islamic sources are going to send you Jew hatred. And I'm used to that.
You could say the neo nazi alt-right types, you know, Jews will not replace us. They're coming after me. You've gotten, of course, the academic progressive left types who are also anti Zionist, which is just code sweet word for anti Jewish.
And so everywhere you turn, there is Jew hatred. And it's so normalized. Now, of course, in part, it is in bolden by the fact that a lot of them are anonymous. They don't put their real names so that they can take the liberty to be this or geastically, you know, Jewish. But it just it's so disenchanting to see that that guy could be my gardener. He could be my surgeon. He could be my dentist. I don't know who he is. But there are millions of those folks who hold those beliefs. It's unbelievable.
I think a lot of them are fake as well. I think a lot of them are Russian and Chinese trolls. I think there's a disturbing amount of them that's responsible for taking this kind of discourse and pushing it to a moment. I think pushing it to a much higher level and making it more ubiquitous. I really, really believe that. And there's a lot of data to support that.
And I think that's part of what's going on with social media. It's definitely a big part of what's going on with Twitter and TikTok. And a lot of these things where you see these very inflammatory messages that seem to be pushed.
They're pushed through and promoted. And like to the fact that you get them all the time. They show up in your feed all the time. Even if you're not subscribed to these, even if you're not following these people, you'll find this disturbing content will show up in your feed. And I really firmly believe that we're being manipulated. I really do. And I think there's a lot of these young kids that are on these campuses that are very malleable. They're very easily.
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The member SIPC is a registered broker dealer. They don't need, I mean, so many, I'm sure you've seen Constantine Kisen from Trigger Nomature. He's done these interviews with these people, these protests, and so many of them are completely ignorant. They have no idea what they're just doing because they think they're a good person.
They're putting up their flag of virtue by saying free-pals done from River to the Sea, and they don't even know what that means. Do you know what you're saying? You're saying wipe out Israel? Is that what you're saying? Not only that, in a lot of cases, their supporting regimes or ideologies that would be perfectly antithetical to their main identities.
So, queer is for Palestine, chickens for Kentucky, five chicken, or I like to use geese for forgra because I'm from Montreal. Imagine if you present yourself to the world with your queer identity. Which is great. Good for you. And now you decide, okay, let me see. Should I be supporting Tel Aviv, which is one of the most queer-friendly places? I mean, short of Montreal, New York, San Francisco, Tel Aviv is right up there.
So, you would think that if my key identity, my definitional identity is my queerness, that I'm certainly putting all my chips with Tel Aviv, no, it's with queers for Palestine. So, that's exactly what parasitic thinking is right now. And I really do think that's supported by other countries. I think they realize how vulnerable and idiotic a lot of Americans are, and they're just pushing that.
Whether you realize it or not, social media, even if they're saying something ridiculous, it's very influential. And they can just move the boundaries a little bit by having the most extreme content, the most ridiculous things, be so common, then less extreme content that would ordinarily be considered ridiculous, now becomes accepted as normalized.
Yeah, yeah, which is what you're seeing. Yeah, exactly. Can I point, I mean, you alluded to it earlier about, you know, what the IDF might be doing. Can I just mention a few things about that? Sure. And I'm hardly the spokesperson of the IDF, but just it's an idea that I've been toying with, and I'll pitch it here for the first time. So, you know, this notion of equality of opportunities, but this is equality of outcomes. Right.
Typically, we link it to all of the work stuff, right? So, equality of opportunities is great. Equality of outcomes is a cancer to human dignity. Okay. Let's now apply that concept, equality of outcomes to war casualties. So, I think this is what happens when people say, oh, but the IDF is being grotesque, because the currency that then matters becomes how many dead on each side, equality of outcome.
But let me change it to a different moral currency. Okay. Let's talk about intent. So, for example, in this, in the justice system, you could have a person who is found guilty of involuntarily vehicle vehicle or homicide, and he kills four people. Okay. So, for our dead. So, that's equality of outcome. Forward died versus someone who took out a hit on his entire family, his brother sister and parents, so that he can gain when the insurance money.
But it's an undercover operation. The cops catch you. Even though in that case, there were zero killed. Correct. That person will get a higher sentence because we understand in the law that intent matters. Now, I think you know I'm going with the analogy. So, in the Palestinian IDF conflict, when say Hamas launches 6,000 rockets, every single one of which is intercepted by the Iron Dome, had they not had the Iron Dome, then the outcome could have been that 50,000 would have been killed. Right.
So, in the real world from Hamas perspective, our intent would be to eradicate every last two they have it in their charter. So, yes, it is true that if we just count the number of people who were killed on October 7th versus the number who were killed in the retaliation, if that's the only calculus that matters, then oh yes, the IDF has gone way overboard.
So, if we change it to an existential intent issue, then maybe it's not such a bad of an outcome as you think. Notwithstanding that a single innocent dead is a tragedy. That's, you could say it that way, but the problem with that is the Iron Dome does exist and Hamas' military capabilities are far below Israel's. It would be like if some small person tried to punch me and I moved out of the way and then beat them to death.
And I said, no, I had to defend myself. I beat them to death. But I didn't have to beat them to death. They're just small person. Even if they hit me, it wouldn't really hurt me. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like, defensively, I'm not worried about a real small person who doesn't know how to fight who throws a punch at me. So, what would be in your moral calculus, the ideal outcome that should have happened as a retaliation to October 7th?
That's a very good question. Obviously, I'm not a military analyst. If I was, you know, you do have to take into consideration the tunnels. You do have to take into consideration the infrastructure. The question is, did they just knowingly bomb places where there was going to be hundreds and hundreds of innocent civilians knowing that there's going to be a few Hamas?
Yeah. And that's what scares people. What scares people is that someone is willing to kill women and children just to get at bad guys and they just say that's just part of the game. That seems horrific in the 2024 understanding of human life and morality and just the horrors of war. That, you know, they're blowing up mosques, they're blowing up schools, they're blowing up apartment buildings, everything, anything where they think Hamas is.
So, again, let me preface and I shouldn't have to say this that a single person killed that's innocent is a tragedy. Of course. But compare that reality to almost any other war that you have in working memory. Why is there a unique, unbelievably high threshold of morality that is placed on the Israeli nation?
Now, you probably already know this. The IDF does go through a lot of painstaking effort to try to minimize that. They drop leaflets in Arabic. They even sometimes call people in Arabic and say, don't go in this area. They hold. So, of course, they've killed many, many innocent people. But they're placed between Iraq and a heart place. What can you do? Right?
The other side knows exactly that if they do exactly what they're doing, either you don't retaliate and we win or you retaliate very harshly as they have and then you still win, right? Today, the propaganda war has been completely won by Hamas, right? There's a complete genocide in the informational war against the IDF, right?
One other point and then I'll see the floor back to you. This, the term genocide, Jacques Derrida was a very famous postmodernist who developed the field of deconstructionism, language creates reality, right? He was one of the guys who allowed the ecosystem of up is down, men could be women, left is right, slavery is freedom, right? It's that postmodernist game that allows these kind of insane ideas to flourish.
Well, when you misuse words like everything is a genocide, that's that does that does no one a service. There is no genocide. There is a killing of a lot of people. Again, every single one killed is a tragedy. But if Israel wanted to commit a genocide by the end of my appearing on this 10th time on this show, there wouldn't be a single Palestinian left.
If they were genocide in their intent, then they really are shitty genocidal maniacs because first of all, the population, as you know, of the Palestinian terrorists has gone up fivefolds, right? So that's really sucky genocide. And they've killed depending on the count. Right, but that's all previous to this, this military action is going on now. What are the numbers that you know right now? It's hard to say.
You know, I mean, Israel has one statistic and then there's other statistics by human rights organizations that estimate at least 12,000 missing in the rubble that are probably dead and 30,000 dead. Now, at the number of those 30,000, what percentage is Hamas? I'm not sure. So I've heard the most favorable estimates to the IDF are about one to one ratio. The less estimate, it's about one to 1.5.
1 to up to 1 to 2. So if they so if they killed 30,000 people 15,000 or Hamas, so you say that would be best. No, if one to one would be 15,000 to 15,000, and then you can take it from there, right? Okay. Okay. So a one to one one to one half of them. So half of them will be half of 30s, 15 exactly. Okay. Right. So now let's compare it to, and I don't know if others have made this analogy.
When you drop the bomb, the atomic bomb, almost all the people who were killed were non-combatants, right? So then that ratio would be 250,000 killed to zero. I mean, unless there's a few Japanese military guys that were in Nagasaki or Hiroshima, you dropped. And again, I'm not, I'm not trying to say, oh, but they're not as bad as these other guys. So they're okay. Let's give them a ribbon and a medal.
But again, it's, it is anti-Semitic when you place one group of people to a standard of morality that is not expected of anybody else. So for example, if you really care about Arab lives, then you certainly should care about all of the Yemenis that have been killed that are a lot more than whatever's happened after October 7th.
You would care about the 500,000 Syrians that were killed. You would care about the war between Iran and Iraq that led to several million killed and on how about an Lebanese civil war 150,000 died in a very short time. But that's not happening currently. So people aren't totally aware of that. Like just those statistics that you brought up, the Lebanese deaths, most people are not aware of that.
That's why I'm here. Yeah, I mean, it's all ugly. It's all awful. There's nothing that you could say that is in any way shape or form positive about any of this. Yeah. The question is, is there another way to do it other than just bombing these areas where you know Hamas is and civilians? There is another way, but I don't think it'll happen. Can I share it? Yeah.
So Golda Mahir, who was the fourth or fifth Prime Minister of Israel from I think 1969 to 1974, has two quotes which I'm going to paraphrase. I don't have the exact quote. She said, if the Jews put down their arms, they'll be a genocide. If the Palestinians put down their arms, they'll be peace. So just remember that for a second.
Second one is if the Arabs, and she means in this case, the Palestinian Arabs, if they were to love their children more than they hate ours, then they'd be peace. So why am I saying these two quotes? Because this battle is really not about land. And in a sense, we've already addressed this on previous shows where I've come and discussed about some of these Islamic issues.
It is an existential affront that the Jewish states state exists in the Middle East. So look at all other religious minorities across Arabia. Egypt used to be completely copped at Christian, 100% many hundred years ago. Today, there are 10% cops left. What happened to those cops? There used to be tons of Christians in Syria. What happened to those Syrians? There used to be tons of Christians in Lebanon. There still are some about 30-35% but Lebanon used to be a majority Christian country.
So the goal of Islam, not individual Muslims. Again, I don't need to preface by saying there are millions and millions of lovely, kind, peaceful Muslims. Of course there is. But Islam as an ideology. Does it tolerate others? Well, we have 1400 years of history that either says it does or it doesn't. We don't have to watch TikTok videos.
And nothing could be clearer than what the words of Muhammad were, the prophet of Islam, who said that you need to rid Arabia of Christians, but certainly the Jews. So the existence of the land of Israel is in the front of that. One more point I'll see to correct you. In Islam there is a concept called Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harab. That means the house of Islam and the house of war.
Anything that's under the Islamic control is good. Anything that's yet to be under Islamic control is under the house of war. Once a territory is under Islamic control and you lose it, you have to get it back. It is your dominion forever. This is why, for example, under the Al-Alucia which was at one point controlled, which is in current Spain, which was controlled by the Moors in Islamic conquistador.
A lot of jihadists will say, in inshallah we have to reconquer under al-Alucia. It is our land because once it's under, so Israel exist. So why am I saying all this? You can't have peace if you have the other side that truly never wants for you to exist. That's the bottom line. If you can change people's heart where they say, look, I get a piece of land, you get another piece. Let's build an incredible vibrant, co-society together. You'd have peace.
But if you're taught from straight out of the womb that the Jews is the reason for every calamity in the world, you're not going to have peace. But don't you think that there are Jews and there are Israelis that treat Palestinians as if they're less? There is that in Texas in terms of treating people who are Hispanic. The darkness of the human heart is not monopolized by one group. They are super nasty Jews and they are incredibly lovely and kind Jews.
They are super nice Muslims and incredibly brutal Muslims. So there is no monopoly on the darkness of the human heart. So I can see that. Of course there are Jews that are not very keen on having Palestinian neighbors. But as someone who grew up in the two worlds, I'm an Arabic speaking Jew. I hang around with tons of Muslims. I hang around with tons of Jews.
Have I ever heard somebody in my Jewish family say, oh God, I can't wait for us to eradicate the 1.52 billion Muslims in the world? I've never heard that. Have I heard incessantly all the time about insha'Allah will get rid of the Jews every second? You just have to say, hi Ahmed, the next line is God damn it. We've got to get rid of the Jews.
Now it's become a lot. Isn't it that common where you are? It's as common as the heat in Texas. It is definitional. As in my fact, I introduced the game, I mean facetiously, but I mean it seriously, 6 degrees of Jew. So that's a play on 6 degrees of. Exactly. So I give you a calamity in the world and you've got up to 6 causal steps to blame the Jews. So an Amazonian frog just died in the Amazon. Go.
And so I will post these on Twitter and people give answers. Now oftentimes they're just playing along, but that's the mindset. You got diabetes? Well that's because the Jews who are controlling the pharmaceutical industry are not releasing the drug. I'll give you a recent one that I failed. So I put up a police line up of some guys that had been caught in Huddersfield, which is a town in England who had been grooming and raping young British white girls.
And you may or may not know this. I'm not sure if we've discussed in the past in Britain over the past 25 years, there's been an unbelievable industrial scale level grooming and raping of young white girls by Asian men. That's a euphemism for men of a certain religious heritage, but you say it's their Asian.
So their names are, let me summarize them for you. Muhammad, Ahmad, Ahmad, Ahmad, Ahmad, Ahmad, Ahmad, Ahmad, Ahmad, Ahmad, Ahmad, Ahmad, Ahmad, Ahmad, Ahmad, Ahmad, Ahmad, Ahmad, Ahmad, Ahmad, Ahmad, Ahmad, Ahmad, Ahmad, Ahmad, Ahmad, Ahmad, Ahmad. Okay. So I put those up and I sarcastically said, I don't have a big enough brain to do the big data analytics to understand what is the commonality across all those gentlemen. Did anybody help me? Do you know how many people wrote to me and blamed her on the Jews? Not facetiously. So now I'm going to ask you Joe.
How? Thanks. I was just going to ask you that. How is it when three Muhammad's rape your 12 year old British girl? You blame it on Mordechai. Three Muhammad lead to Mordechai. Tell me how you tell me. I don't know how did they do it?
Who let them in? It's the Jewish cabal who controls immigration policy. It's George Soros, the Jew who controls the open society ideology. I don't think you can really just connect George Soros to Jewish. If you look at his policy, he seems anti-Western civilization. I agree. But for the for the Jew hater, any, any causal explanation.
Is there an individual who just happens to be Jewish? Or they point to some other one. There's one. I don't even know who she is. I think Barbara Learner or something. Somebody will correct us in the comments section where they show her saying something. Oh, we need to flood. And she happens to be Jewish. But for every Jewish person who is pro open door policy, there's a counter Jewish person. Here's one who is not for open border policies. Right. Stephen Miller who worked in the Trump administration is Jewish. He's probably the biggest anti-open door immigration.
But that's the mindset of the Jew hater. Everything is being there is this incredible diabolical feature of the Jew that they're able to at times pretend that their victims, but really their diabolical and genocidal. It's grotesque, man. It's weird.
It's just weird that it became so out in the open. And that's what makes me think that they've been influenced. I just can't imagine there was that much anti-Semitism before October. But why why do you like the influence is coming for what purpose just to see the create havoc? Yes. Yeah, to keep people at each other's throats.
I really think so. And also to completely screw up democracy, you know, like people have lost all their faith in voting. They've lost all their faith in the money behind politics and the influence behind politics. And the more this stuff just gets brought up, the more chaos there is, the more hatred there is, the more divide there is. Even amongst the Democratic Party, right?
We talked about the other day that like some large number, we think it's around 70% of Jewish people vote Democrat. But now, you know, the Democratic Party is full on with this Palestine thing. And you know, you see it on college campuses, this rampant anti-Semitism, death to the Jews being tolerated, literally saying that yelling it out.
By the way, you can go back. So I wouldn't be able to tell you which number, which episode, but you can go back to earlier episodes that have appeared on this glorious podcast where you will see that I would have predicted exactly what we're seeing now. And it's not because I'm a prophet or it's not because I'm so intelligent. It's because you simply have to have the power of having the imagination to extrapolate from a current trend to some future and outcome, right?
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You can go into your country, people who have genocidal Jew hatred as an endemic feature of their society. So I'll give you, since people love stats. So there was a pew, pew is a nonpartisan, if anything they probably lean towards being more woke.
So pew has these global surveys that they conduct. So in 2010, they conducted a survey looking at how favorable are you towards the Jews across a whole bunch of Islamic countries. Now if you were to, if I were to tell you that 10% of the Polt people exhibited Jew hatred, you'd say, oh boy, that's a big number. 10% is a lot.
How about if I tell you that for most of those Polt countries was between 95 to 99%. So let me, I know people understand what 95 to 99 means. If I pull 100 people, 95 to 99 will express very problematic Jew hatred. So now if I let in 100,000 such people into the country, it doesn't take a fancy evolutionary psychologist and a professor with a 47 page academic CV to say, well, probably Jew hatred is going to go up. So that's what we're seeing now.
We're seeing the outcome of having an immigration policy that has let in people that don't share our foundational values. Again, this doesn't mean someone's going to write in the comments section.
What a hypocrite. You're an immigrant. Gatsad. Well, there are immigrants and there are immigrants. There are tons of Muslims who want to come in here and leave all that baggage at the door. They want nothing to do with that. They just want to live the American experience. The problem is, we don't have the machine that can look into your heart and mind. Right. So it's a statistical game. So if you're going to let in hundreds, I mean, look what's happening in Germany. Look what's happening in France. Look what's happening in Denmark. What let me ask you is, why do you think that stuff is happening?
Why do you think this is mass immigration? So that's that's a great question. So it's it's covered partly in parasitic mind my earlier book and in my next book, which I call suicidal empathy. Right. So empathy is a emotion that has evolved for very clear evolutionary reasons.
So just like any of our other emotions, for example, envy, there are evolutionary reasons why we've evolved the emotion of envy, right. It can compel us forward. I see that Joe's doing well, keeping up with the Joneses. Maybe it get me off my fat ass so I can work harder. So there are very clear evolutionary reasons why empathy exists.
But the problem is when empathy misfires, it either becomes hyperactive or it misfires in directing the empathy to the wrong person. So for example, illegal immigrants more important than American vets. Right. And I can show you many public policies where you have these insane policies, all of which are due to suicidal empathy. So to answer your question, I think that the Western mind is we are kind, tolerant, compassionate, empathetic people.
There are people out there, they're Guatemalan, they're Honduran, they're Yemeni who don't have it as well as we do. Wouldn't it be nice if we open up our doors. So the reflex is a noble one. It's a nice one. But it exists in unicornia.
The real world doesn't operate that way. If you let in people that have a huge hatred of homosexuality, are you going to have an increase in homophobia in your country or a decrease, right. So I think that's the answer. The answer is misdirected empathy across the West. Is it really that simple? Because it seems like it's happened so rapidly. It seems like a plan, like a plan to create more chaos.
So it's happened that the border policy in America is puzzling. It's very, it's baffling because it seems like there's a plan that the flood the country. So it's a sort of a conspiratorial kind of cabal. It seems like there's something going on that's allowing it to happen even though everyone recognizes it's a problem and it's solvable. But they don't solve it. In fact, the United States government is actively tried to stop Texas from enforcing their border.
So what, but I think that's just so I've often tweeted that the most dangerous weapon in human context is a parasitized mind, right. I mean, a bomb is dangerous, but it is, it is the human mind that activates that bomb, right. It's a guy with the little mustache that said that Jews are the real problem in the world. And I need to get rid of the world of that parasite, right.
So parasitic thinking, I mean, one of the reasons I think that that book did so well is because it really explained how all of these parasitic ideas came to a head together. And they were all spawned on university campuses over the past 40 to 80 years. So one one hypothesis is what you said, which is there is kind of a grand scheme that's willfully doing this.
Another one is that all of the Western leaders of roughly the same age, I mean within 20 years of each other are all a product of a Western education, university education, that was completely infected with these dreadful parasitic ideas. So that when these leaders go out there and have the power to enact policies, they enact these policies. So my view is slightly different from yours in that I don't think that there is a supra mega, you know, willful plan.
It's just that all of those Western leaders are the product of a really shitty university system. Right, but there's obviously two schools of thought, right. There's the left wing school thought, the right wing school thought in regards to this, the right wing school thought wants to seal our borders, wants to secure the borders, wants to stop illegal immigration.
The left wing wants, I mean, I don't know what they want because they start talking about border policies being a problem as well. And they start talking about the issue of the border and they try to blame Trump for the issues of the border, which is always hilarious.
But they're just so with that kind of stuff with blaming like when Biden blames Trump for things that he clearly did, it's just gaslighting, right. And it just it just shows you how little respect they have for people's ability to understand what's actually going on. Well, look suicidal empathy, we, I mean, we can move beyond the border. How about say in the justice system?
Suicidal empathy results in you carrying more about the perpetrator than the victim. That's suicidal empathy, right. Because that argument, so here's how that left us argument works. If a person, especially a criminal of color commits a crime, that's probably because he grew up as a person of color. So he's already been marginalized by the society. So now he commits a crime.
You're now double whamming him by putting him in the penal system. So you need to be more caring. So he's already got 57 previous arrests. Let's give him a 58th chance. So again, I don't think it comes from it comes from really parasitized thinking, right. But that those policies are supported by George Soros specifically. And they mean he actively goes after D.A.s that have the most lenient and ridiculous policies in regards to no cash, bales releasing violent criminals.
Like that seems like that's done on purpose. That's done with intent. But it's done on purpose. So I think where where we made the first, you think it's because there is a duplicitous evil. Let's cause havoc. Whereas I think they actually believe that that's the noble position. Right. And there should be no borders.
There is no illegal human. What kind of bullshit is this? I mean, why do you have a lock on your door? Right. So why is it that I get to have sex with my beautiful wife, but all these homeless guys are sexually starved? That's not fair. That's the parasitism of socialism. We're all equal.
Well, why do you make a lot more money than I do, Joe? That's not fair. I need to have as much money as you. Right. So I don't think I mean, I hope that it's not what what you what you're saying is true because then that's even more sinister. Right. There's kind of a who I just think it's people who are misguided in their misdirected nobility. Right. I think it's both. You think it's both. Yeah. I think it's both. Maybe it's both. Yeah.
I think there's definitely a lot of misguided people, but I think there's definitely a plan. It just it's two organized the the DA system, the DA thing with funding the far leftist DA's and then funding someone who opposes them who's even more ridiculous. That that seems to be a plan. Yeah. And he's got a pattern of that and he seems to enjoy it. Enjoy spending his money in that way. But he enjoys it. I think it's like this crazy game. Right.
So think about what's going on with your boyfriend Trump these days. What oh, the trials. The trials fascinating. You know, I had Mike Baker on who's a formally CIA, but formally. But we were we were talking about that that no one's ever been charged for something like that before. No one's ever been prosecuted for something like that before. Certainly no political opponents. And my my thing is the danger.
People that are on the left that don't understand that now you set a precedent. You said a terrible precedent. And if Trump does get an office, what is the stop him from going after all of his political enemies in the same exact way.
Yeah. Are we going to do this now every time someone's in a position of power, whether it's a governor or whether it's a president or what have you when they have a political opponent, they they will hire people to go after that political opponent and Trump up a bunch of Trump up. No pun intended a bunch of bullshit charges and drag them through the court so that everybody's the people that only have a peripheral understanding what's going on.
So oh my god, he's a criminal. Keep that criminal out of the white house like okay. Do you think a lot of people who historically had been against Trump are now honest enough to see what a shandos whole thing is and are revising their positions or do you think there's quite a few yes really. Yeah, but it takes a lot of bravery to do that.
And it depending upon your social environment, you know, there's a lot of people that just can't step outside the lines of whatever the ideology their neighborhood is attached to their communities attached to the reason why I asked the questions because I recently appeared maybe about five six months ago on a British psychiatrist show a small show, but I thought he was a really interesting guy. He want to talk about how you apply evolution and psychiatry and so on. So I was like let's do it.
Towards the end of the show or maybe it was even the last question he said in your 30 year career as a behavioral scientist as a professor what is the singular human phenomenon that has surprised you the most which I thought was an amazing question I had never been asked before. So yeah, it's amazing one because you know I've seen tons of stuff. And so I paused for a moment and then I said I think it's the inability of people to change their opinions once they are anchored in a position.
Yes. And so that so it wasn't that spirit that I was asking you the question have some because in my experience despite the fact that I have a chapter in the parasitic mind on how to seek truth. And therefore I'm offering a vaccine against falsehoods. I'm actually quite pessimistic for some people who go la la la I don't want to hear it because there's so anchored there's no amount of evidence that I could ever show you that can move you a millimeter from your position that's very this hard.
It's very disheartening it's very foolish. I was trying to tell people do not be married to your ideas you should not connect them to you they are just ideas they are not you. And if you have supported an idea that you find to be false and you are afraid to admit that you were incorrect that is far more weak than being incorrect because now you know that you were incorrect but your pride is keeping you from admitting it that is beyond foolish.
And now people will always know that you're going to do that with what people will forgive you if you make mistakes people will forgive you if you're incorrect. We have all made mistakes we are all occasionally incorrect I mean correct all the time but I make a big point of not attaching myself to ideas.
I will argue them if I think they are correct but they are not me you know Patriso Neil had a great quote and he said you could hold your opinions but don't let your opinions hold you right beautiful yeah you just you got to know that you're not ideas you're human being and it's a challenge when you are faced with the reality of the fact you've made an error especially if you've been.
Bold about it if you've been condescending to people who disagree with it if you're ego-tistical in your position you connected yourself to righteousness and intellect and science and whatever other words you want to throw around that make your opinion more valid than the other people's been and then you find out you were wrong right.
Okay if we are ever going to trust you again you have to tell us why you were wrong how you're wrong and what that feels like and what you've learned from this because if you don't if you keep arguing that you keep doing it now we have no respect for you.
We know how she's the worst but he's worse than that I think he's far worse than that I think he's deceptive yeah I mean if the real Anthony Fauci the book by Robert F Kennedy Jr. is not if it's not accurate he would be sued he would be sued right and just forget about what happened during COVID just what we know took place during the AIDS crisis everyone should read that book every would should understand this same game plan was played out during the AIDS crisis and it's a game plan
where they're in cohoots with the pharmaceutical drug companies and they push this thing as being the only remedy and this is how and they make tremendous amounts of money yeah and that's all real this is not tin foil hat conspiracy wearing shit that's real but if you supported him because you thought that he was the science and then over time you have realized that oh my god they did work with Peter
Datsick they did fund through another organization gain a function research he did lie about it it was talked about in emails he did contact people who were saying one thing and had them change their position he did they did ridicule the lab leak theory when they knew it to be correct they knew it they knew they were doing the exact same research on the exact same viruses in that exact same place where broke out they knew it right and they lied because
they wanted to cover their ass and we let him get away with it yeah and I'm God we're talking about the inability to admit to a wrongdoing in science because oftentimes when you think about people who are anchored in their positions you think about political arguments you think that somehow you romanticize scientists as being unbiased for veiers and pursuers of the truth and nothing could be further from from the truth be so I'll give you just a couple of
examples historical examples I mean of course Galileo sure is a perfect example Copernicus is a great example Darwin is a great example but let's look at some other ones that people may not be familiar with so I think his name I don't
not sure how you pronounce it semmel vice he was the gentleman who arguably has saved more people than anybody else in medicine do you have an idea who does no is he the penisonga not the pencil that's what's his name sir Fleming I think that's Fleming he's I think it was a Scottish physician I felt I was thinking no this guy is the gentleman who told other physicians that they should wash their hands
so do you remember he was a I think he was a Hungarian physician who was noticing that a lot of there was this huge mortality rate of women as they were giving birth and so he started running these naturally occurring experiments where you either so the physician has just worked on a cadaver and then goes and does the up the threat up statics so when he said wash your hands he he died I think penniless destitute an a mental asylum or something right and then later people said oops he was right
right because they didn't understand bacteria but they didn't understand back what yeah that guy that's it semmel vice exactly could could could Derrick particles is that mean cadaver could that right yeah every case of childhood fever was caused by resorption of cadaverick particles
oh my god but the blowback against this guy from the senior physicians I mean this guy was destitute he died completely unvalidated I mean it was only post hoc that he there you go nervous breakdown so allegedly suffered a nervous breakdown was committed to an asylum by his colleagues in the asylum he's beaten by the guards oh god it's incredible story here here's another one I don't remember his name the truth tester Jamie will get it out for us there's the gentleman who won the Nobel Prize
I'm saying the last 20 or 30 years for arguing that ulcers are caused by a particular virus or I don't know if it's a virus or a bacterium and everybody laughed him out of town he ended up winning the Nobel Prize and so I often joke with my students I say if people laugh at your ideas
and fight them it's either for one or two reasons it's a really shitty idea and it's it's worthy of that derision right or prepare to go to Stockholm to win the Nobel Prize because I mean literally right it's one of the other it's one of the other because the Nobel Prize is nothing but a history of people saying what a quack this moron is no way oops here's your Nobel Prize doctor and isn't that because of what we talk about because of ego and that ego being connected to your
ideas of someone comes along with a revolutionary idea that's contrary to what you currently believe you take it as a reference to yourself exactly it's horrible so I so I give a talk this is going back to some of my early appearances here where we talk a lot more evolutionary psychology I give a talk at two talks at University of Michigan when my first book came out it was an academic book evolutionary basis of consumption how do you apply evolution psychology and human behavior in general
consumer behavior in particular I give the talk in the psychology department on a Thursday and everybody's like oh yeah this is because a lot of the psychologists were trained in physiological psychology biological psychology and so on so they they were totally appreciative of the fact that you can't really study human behavior without understanding the biological signatures of human behavior okay then I go to the business school the next day Ross school of business I give the exact same talk
okay I couldn't finish a single sentence because all of the professor and it was usually the professor it wasn't the doctoral students who were because the doctoral students are still malleable their brains are still being formed they're happy to listen it's the senior
professor who has spent 30 years arguing that human minds are born tabula rasa empty-slated and it's only socialization that teaches the consumer to be how he or she is that they were really offended by my stuff so they would constantly interrupt me and
I remember as a as a side person though my wife was in the audience that they should come with me and prior to that talk she had said oh I feel really sick I probably have food poisoning we later find out found out that she was pregnant with our first daughter so there's both a
really bad memory and a really good memory associated with the University of Michigan so what was their position when you were saying this biology does not so they were interrupting you nonstop I probably got through so let's say I don't remember the
number of slides I had 30 slides I maybe got to slide 10 because so here's first question or if if everything is due to evolutionary pressures how do you explain homosexuality then if everything is due to survival instead how do you explain suicide then by
by the way there are evolutionary explanations for suicide and homosexuality right humans are sexually reproducing species even though chased monks exist right people do have a survival instinct even though some people commit suicide men are taller than women even though you're
and Julie is taller than your uncle Bob so what happens with with people in terms of a cognitive obstacle they take a singular datum as proof that a statement that is true of the population level has been violated it has it right every single WNBA player is taller than most men that does not invalidate the fact that men are taller than women right so all of the more runs in the in that the University of Michigan were also coming to that kind of stuff right because they didn't
like the idea to our earlier discussion that we've had on the show a lot of people don't like the idea that we are biologically determined they think that that's a form of you're just an executor of your genes but that's a wrong view by the way because everything is an interaction between your genes and the environment right even specific genes get turned on as a function of the environment so the fact that you believe that we have biological
imperatives that got our behavior doesn't make us blind executor our genes right and that's what's important but the idea that everyone is born a blank slate is so silly because there's children that don't even grow up with their parents that have traits that their parents have and also happened to have talents that their parents have for some strange reason and call their dog the same name there's a lot of
weirdness to it there's a lot of weirdness to memory the like genetic memory like whoever you are it's not as simple as you were a baby you started off clear and blank that that's not real we learn things somehow or another through some under I guess it's explored but not quite understood process yeah and this process even encourages things like racism there's there's even detrimental ideas that are inherited
through children right that have been proven but they don't know exactly there's the mechanism right so I because you mentioned memory so maybe I could talk about how you study memory from an evolutionary perspective please so is that where can I ask you this before start sure do you think that's where like a video phobia and rack nephobia things like that come from yeah so there is actually a lot of research
looking at the evolutionary roots of phobia that studied an evolutionary clinical psychology and Darwinian psychiatry the ones for me are that are fascinating are a video phobia rack nephobia fear of snakes and fear of spiders because that evolutionarily makes sense exactly if we either got bitten survived or you saw someone get bit or you you know and you see a spider you're like oh shit but that's why by the way you don't
go see your clinical psychologist because you have a fear of guns or fears of cars even though cars and guns kill a lot more people the spiders if you if you go if you study the manifestations of clinical cases of phobia they're exactly what you're saying because I you know from doing fear
factor we would encounter people that had both of those and man when you see it in real life it's like a person's possessed by a demon right it's crazy when you see like high level of videophobia people snakes their whole body starts shaking they can't keep their hands still it's crazy man it's not
like you know I see a dog looks a scary dog whoa you live in that dog it's not like that it's like your whole body by the way I actually I don't think it's at the clinical level but in in the parasitic mind in chapter one I talk about the maladaptive well maybe adoptive phobia that I have of
mosquitoes so if so early in in my marriage to my wife maybe that was one of the best ways to test if she should go the the whole route with me is we were traveling to Antiga and we had the misfortune of some you know it's in the Caribbean there are a lot of mosquitoes and there are a couple of
mosquitoes got in I spent with her with her complete patients probably told two in the morning tracking and killing every single mosquito in that condo because the thought of that disgusting monstrous pig sucking the blood out of me was just unbearable and so I I mean
I literally will turn into a little girl if we see a mosquito in the house I cannot go on with me I can't watch TV I can't train the mosquito must die now in a sense that's perfectly adaptive because we know that by far if you add up the tallies of people killed by mosquitoes
versus all other animals combined else it's not even a miniscule is not another thing that kills people as much as your skewers right so that's perfectly adapted but do you want me to go to the memory stuff sure so think about say a squirrel it has evolved a memory that allows it to
remember the spatial location in your backyard where it stores caches of food so that it has its own memory bias so that even though it won't detected by smell because that's a in Montreal it's under four feet of snow it has a mental map so that it perfectly knows where it hid everything right now
the human memory has evolved to solve different problems so then if you are a memory researcher studying memory from an evolutionary perspective you would say well what would the human memory solve as an adaptive problem so let me give you one such example so if I show you a
bunch of photos of people okay images of faces and I put a descriptor next to each one where I tag that person as a social cheater or not a cheater so what the social cheating means lack of reciprocation so if I do something for you then you will cheat and recant and not
I scratch your back but you're right right right right now that information about the personal characteristic of that individual is a evolutionarily important datum right so now I'm going to show you all these people I control for their good looks right so I don't
put all of the cheaters as being good looking and all the right because then then you might remember them because they were good looking not because they were cheaters right so I put this array of faces and then later I ask you to remember whether you'd seen that face or not and
people end up remembering at a much higher level any face that had been tagged as being a social cheater do you follow yeah therefore your your perceptual system works in cahoots with your memory system to pay attention more to information that is evolutionarily relevant
so that I'm more likely to recall it and remember it so that would be an example of how you would apply the evolutionary lens to study how our memory operates here's another example not in the case of social dynamics but in the case of remembering where foods it so if you ask people
to go through a maze of food and then ask them to remember where particular foods are they're much more likely to remember the locations of high calorie foods so in this case in this case it's not that I have a domain general mechanism that just learns where things are there is a
sensorial bias to me being more likely to remember the location of something if it is evolutionarily relevant and there are many many other such examples so that would be a wonderful demonstration of how the evolutionary lens adds a whole layer of explanatory power
to what typically memory researchers have done which is usually they study memory as just the domain general mechanistic system whereas the evolutionary psychologist says no no but why did that mechanism evolve to be of that form right and why do animals have memories even if
they're not growing up with their parents what how do they know to pee on fire I'm sure exactly right where they getting this from there's something going on there you know how do they know to go after certain animals yeah like I've a golden retriever he loves all dogs like
little dogs like the size of I just I just met him yeah I mean he's much more interested in people than he is but he's never mean but if Carl is a squirrel that size you would be dead so he knows the difference between something that's small that's a dog that's just tolerated you know
oh how you doing buddy yeah or something that's that big that's squirrel which is murder I'm going to murder that thing okay you said murder yeah that led me because I was a murderer he's a squirrel murderer you know you know what is a what's a group of crows called a murder a murder
yeah I'm going to tell you now about another study and maybe Jamie can pull it off I think it's a diversity of Washington maybe like I hope I'm not wrong where he he wanted to see whether crows remember the face of a really nasty guy so that they can you know if he then comes again
they'll start calling right right and he kind of took like an image of the face and then he would either wear it or not and then he would I don't remember what the dependent measure was but it was something to the effect of then he's studying there you there you go I
I love it I love have Jamie so this guy had a mean face and he did mean things in the crow's recognize them and and so then it starts spreading to the entire group where they exactly know you see this face remember it he's a fucker oh that makes sense crow's are insanely smart
oh they're smarter than most have you seen the ones from I think new caledonia that do all the stuff with the maybe Jamie you could pull that one I think that's the smartest of all the that the avian species this episode is brought to you by mowin homes are a big investment
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that I guarantee you and I would sit there for eighteen hours and we wouldn't crack that mister yet they figured out how to use tools to get other tools to get you know there you know there you go it's unbelievable they put rocks in there to raise the water level
I mean a little kid wouldn't even figure that out I mean they're fucking smart man like it is it is it's crazy well I love it's also their brains are so small which really is really confusing bird brain yeah it's really confusing like large brains don't I mean
we don't really know how intelligent an animal is unless we see it manipulates environment or communicate yeah because it's possible that elephants are insanely smart they have immense memories their memories are nuts like they meant with they they get reunited
with their calves like twenty years later they run and embrace each other and it's just joyous when elephants die they mourn they mourn the death they have huge brains but it's also a huge animal yeah but it doesn't manipulate its environments we don't respect it yeah
sort of like the way the reason why dolphins are in sea world it's because that's the literal slavery it's slavery of probably a parallel or if not more intellectual species yeah something with a cerebral cortex forty percent larger yeah that a human beings something
that communicates in a language that we can't decipher something that has different dialects something that operates operates in these very tight social groups but they do some rough sex I don't know if you're well they do they're pretty dolphins are horrible dolphins are
they they kill their babies there's no hashtag me too with the dolphins let me tell you it's worse than that dolphins when they find a female and she has a child if he has not had sex with that that dolphin female that child's not his so he'll kill that child lines do
the same but what they'll do is the females will have a sex with as many dolphins as they can so you don't know so you don't know who's kid it is so that they don't kill the baby there you go which is wild there you go I mean but that's how you live when there's no doors you're in the ocean
is no doors open open open wild it's just why yo that you murder soup you said the manipulate the environment so have you heard of the Bauer bird you know that is no so the Bauer bird maybe maybe sorry I'm I keep on but a B-O-W-E-R so the Bauer bird creates a Bauer which is a a structure
that serves no purpose other than demonstrating my artistic there you go really so by the way you know what I'm loving about today's show it's like I feel like I'm back to lecturing my evolutionary psychology stuff good I need a glass oh look what he's doing you see so let me let me
explain what's happening here unless you want to watch it first no please explain so so what it's one of the only species other than humans that uses artistic ability as a mating queue right so right Picasso short little guy bald ugly he's got a huge lineup of hot women who want to have sex
with him because he's Picasso that's what the Bauer bird is doing he's saying look at how architecturally savvy I am look how symmetric my Bauer bird is not only that by the way the same now there you go okay she said you're good enough let's do this let's do this excellent trophies
so now but you saw all those other blue things yes okay so if you if you travel to Australia in certain regions there there are signs from the government saying if you are women don't be careful don't wear shiny things on your head why because these assholes will come at you
attack the women's head steal the shiny things so that they could use the shiny things in their Bauer to attract the ladies why that's smart that's smarter than most men not really but I see what you're saying but look at this setup man this guy's got this dope pad it's got like a bachelor
pad but flowers out in front like ladies yeah don't you like no that's the girl that was the girl that was the girl yeah that's the girl you usually in avian species the drab one is the girl and the flashy one is the guy right like nobody gives a fuck about female flamingos
fuck out of here female flamingos what am I gonna do with that I need to do it exactly straight around exactly if you got flamingos man you're a bauer that's a move right I have a flamingo in your yard so you only have a I'm thinking of peacock you have a dog
you only have a dog I'm thinking of peacock I'm doing the whole thing like I'm a peacock but I'm thinking of saying flamingo yeah I only have a dog I have chickens too by the way oh you like those exotic ones no chicken chicken just like regular chicken but here's the I'm scared to ask
this they become pets you don't eat them right no I don't you I will somebody fucks around somebody tries to hurt somebody I'll grab a little fuckers the little dinosaurs when when one of them was younger this is my old group of chickens that I had when my youngest daughter was a baby
they were pecking her feet and I there's this one country chicken that we had and I feel like there's gonna be a Christine no moment no no no no nobody died my wife unfortunately they all did they'll coyotes got them and dogs long story anyway point is I go no she's trying to eat the babies
feet like you got to understand this is not this is not like she thinks that's a worm she thinks she can get away with eating they eat each other they fucking peck at each other they they'll get they'll murder a mouse if you're never seeing a chicken and a mouse together who really
yeah we had a fence and this is very unfortunate but we had a fence that was glass and one of the side effects of this glass fence was hawks and hawks would be swooping down try to get a rat or some other rodent or something in there bam yeah nose dive into this glass and we lost like
three hawks like this is fucked up you know I was like maybe we should go back to the other fence my wife was like fuck you I like this fence it was it was one of those conversations where we were like like this seems like it's our fault that this hawks died right so one of them
made it one of them lived and they took the hawk and they put it in like a big like wash machine box and contact this wildlife rescue thing and they said well okay if you're gonna have it because we're not open until Monday you got it feed it thing so what do you feed it so you have to go to
the store so we went to the pet store they get these things called pinkies and when pinkies are just baby mice their baby mice that have they're not gonna live they're they're separated from their mother you feed them to reptiles okay it's gross right and so the hawk ate most of them but he
did need one so they were like we're gonna raise it like listen you can't just do that you can't just like feed a bunch of these little things to this giant raptor and then say now we're gonna take this one that survived and raise it first of all the nightmares that little fucker would have
but second of all it's not viable it's not good it needs it's not gonna live yeah I go let's just give it to the chickens so I brought it outside and I put it in the chickens cage one chicken grabs it as fast as I've ever seen a chicken move and then every other chicken runs after that chicken and
tries to get it away from her is it a defensive thing or they want to eat it they want to eat it okay the and so she has it in her mouth and they're trying to steal it from her and they just tear it apart and devour it like dinosaurs wow like it's so crazy watching them kill so I'm not feeling
so guilty at the genocide of chicken that I eat it's still fucked up because it's the soul of the animal is not being expressed as nature intended the soul the animal should be a chicken it's not that you shouldn't eat chickens but chickens should live as chickens they should wander around and
pick bugs and eat worms and do all the things that chickens love doing to have a chicken just in a box where it's entire existence you're stealing souls like you're doing something fucked up that's way more fucked up than just raising a farm if you got cows and they're on a pasture and every day
they're just being cows and then one day you take them in the stall and bang this thing goes into their brain and they're dead that is way less evil that is way more humane than what's gonna happen to them in the wild what are they gonna do they're gonna either freeze to death or starve
to death or get torn apart by wolves right torn but if you're gonna have cows everywhere and people want to reintroduce wolves everywhere congratulations you've got wild kingdom right you got wild kingdom happening in your neighborhood if that's what you want and if you don't want people to eat cows
anymore okay what are you gonna do with the cows yeah are you gonna sterilize them are you gonna keep a certain amount are you gonna play god with cows you're gonna say the cows can't breed are you gonna give the boys cows birth control what are you gonna do how you gonna do oh you're gonna
introduce predators okay how you gonna keep kids from those predators how you gonna keep dogs from those predators have you thought about this now you haven't because people that are they're reintroducing grizzly bears to Washington as we speak we're gonna reintroduce the things that we
killed because they killed everybody we're so smart it's bananas these people out of their fucking minds and they're not they don't have a real understanding of actual nature the the horrible thing is this commod commodization of of nature is taking animals and factory farming them in these horrific conditions where it's illegal to film it's illegal to they have ag gag laws because it's so or traumatic and so horrific you would affect the industry yeah yeah no I agree that's what's wrong
with eating meat yeah what's being being a part of the natural cycle of life is what made humans human if you want the most nutrients it comes from animal protein there's a reason why it's so cherished I made not in the using the same words but I've made roughly the same argument when the tofu
brigade came after me because I was offering some evolutionary reasons for why you know we have to have animal protein as part of our diets and they were so pissed at me because they thought it was very hypocritical that on the one hand I could share so many tweets and post demonstrating how much
I love animals and then in another photo I show some steak or here's what my wife is cooking and that to them was completely incongruous and was proof of my you know moral degeneracy and then I I actually created two sad truth clips where I was really demonstrating the evolutionary reasons you
know archaeological data dental data physiognomic data anthropological data and they just wouldn't have it you're a hypocrite you can't love an animal and eat an animal so I'm glad that you well there's a real problem with that too and this is something that people dismiss very openly but
I don't think we should I think plants are alive and I don't think they're just alive in a way that we can feel completely fine about growing them in this insane monocrop agriculture place and pouring industrial grade fertilizer and pesticides all of them I think they're a thing that
thinks yeah I think they're a thing that communicates with their environment but they just do it in a way that we don't understand they do it through mycelium they they arrange resources they allocate resources towards plants that need the more they have some sort of a network of communication
I was going to say have you seen the networks of fungi yes yes mineball I had Paul Stammett in the podcast a couple of times and he's a mycologist and just a brilliant guy and he really explains it all so well it's so mind blowing though the relationship that the the mycelium have with the
nutrients in the earth and that it's it's the earth is not dirt it's like a living environment it's this environment that they've ruined through monocrop agriculture yeah and that's what's wrong with farming it's not farming farming farming is a perfect way to balance an ecosystem when those
people do it the right way like those people from white oak's pastures or polyface farms regenerative agricultural people there's like zero carbon footprint of what they do and in fact it's a questers carbon you're growing things it's manure and cows and it's all working together and
the chickens are free-ranging and it's like it's nature just in a contained environment but that's normal have you you mentioned the word soil so it made me think about have you seen the research on I kind of remember what the term is but something like soil DNA that I guess the
the pioneer is I think he's Danish either Danish or Swedish I think Danish and basically they go to these steps that are really really a matter maybe not Mongolian steps but somewhere where you expect to find a lot of the typical fossil remains and so on but what they now do is they just do
this excavation of soil in the same way that people who study ice you know how they can bore and then they can they can date yeah various ice right so they do something similar where they they kind of harvest tons of soil and they're then able to isolate you know DNA of mammoths have
you have you seen some of the stuff yes I have yeah that's my blowing mind blowing unbelievable yeah I actually thought about inviting that guy on my show maybe you should have him on your show yeah that sounds fast they talk about it's it it really is so interesting when you just think about
that this the complex interaction between everything on earth the plants and that we literally need plants to create oxygen for us and they're they consuming more carbon it's like what that's one of the craziest things about gingas con is when gingas con live they killed so many people
that places reforested and they lowered the carbon footprint of earth right that's a real thing so genocide was green yeah that was green if you looked at there's well there's also like different ways Dan Carlin on hardcore history as the most amazing series it's called wrath of the con I think
you have to buy it on his website and but it's really cheap it's like a dollar in episode or something and it's fucking amazing it's amazing and it's I think it's a three piece thing is it a three piece series on on on gen get jengus con is the correct way to say it temo gen was his real name
and what what he did and like the rise that guy spread some genes she's a slow way that guy was busy that guy get after it it would mean spread some genes and killed some fucking people killed 10 percent of the population of earth yeah it wasn't that much yep okay I don't know it's not much
10 percent wow yeah somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 to 70 million people they don't know exactly there is a genocide bro you ain't kid but you earlier you said oh how everything is connected which leads me to a concept which I don't think I've ever discussed on my 10 shows on your on
your podcast this concept can siltience have you heard that term before sure yes yeah like being concealed your toy no no it doesn't mean that all oh oh can siltience comes from I mean it doesn't come from him but he kind of reintroduced it into the lexicon do you know who E. O. Wilson is
I've heard the name E. O. Wilson is a he just recently passed away at the maybe agent 90 I just read his autobiography called naturalist amazing but autobiography he was a Harvard entomologist and a strong proponent of socio biology applying biology to studies social systems and so on
and he was part of the original culture wars where a lot of his colleagues hated him because he was arguing that biology affects human behavior E. O. Wilson check him out he's unbelievable well in the late 90s he wrote a book called Consilience Unity of Knowledge and and that became one of the
foundation books in how I did my academic career which is Consilience is trying to unify the spirit areas of human endeavor that you typically wouldn't think should be linked together so you could link the natural sciences the social sciences and the humanities through the Consilience of
evolutionary theory because you could study psychology using evolutionary theory of course you could study biology using evolutionary theory or you could study aesthetics which is in the humanities using evolutionary theory so that became a really important concept of my own work because my brain
operates as a synthetic machine I like to synthesize across right so one of the reasons why I decided early on to break out of just being an academic because I couldn't see myself as a stay in your lane professor I need to try to right so coming on Joe Rogan is going to allow me to share ideas
and synthesize things with millions of people rather than writing another academic paper that if I'm lucky will be read by 50 people and cited by 12 and so before you came on though when you came when you came on there's being on the show is not that problematic in what's you mean like
people would criticize being on the show because nobody even knew what it was well that's true once they did know what it was people looked down and so I don't know if I've ever shared the story before and even if I have it's worth repeating I discussed this in the personal mind I had been invited
to Stanford in 2017 to speak at their business school a very academic scientific talk on how to apply evolutionary theory blah blah blah so that my host who's a fellow he's a consumer psychologist invited me out to dinner the night before and and I think after I was going there I might I think
I was flying down to seven at the time you were in Southern California still 2017 you were in seven yeah yeah and I was gonna do your show I think yeah so at night he's during dinner he said also I hear you you know you you go off and on Joe Rogan's show I said oh yeah yeah he goes yeah
well you know we don't condone that at Stanford very kind of hot I said you don't condone what he goes well we know we don't do our research so that it could be sexy enough for to appear so I could talk about on Joe Rogan so I said well I don't do the research also that so I can
appear on Joe Rogan but if I can publish a paper in an academic journal and then go on Joe Rogan and hopefully excite people about evolutionary psychology and psychology of decision making isn't that better than just having my wife and mother read the paper and he didn't like that he
thought very whereas now I not that many but I'll get a lot more professors who will write to me saying can you get me on Joe Rogan well that's good you know but that that speaks to how patterns change right yeah well it's just you know it's so easy to label somebody it's so
easy to label a platform or you know like podcasting in general that it's frivolous especially if you live in the academic world but it's just an opportunity to talk about stuff and if I'm talking to someone about evolutionary psychology or if I'm talking to someone about coal mining like I just
want to know what's going on well I'm not trying to blow smoke up your ass or you know being graham or anything but I bet if there was a currency a metric to measure how much you've affected the intellectual ecosystem versus your average well published professor I would put my money on
you not because you were the creator of the knowledge but because boy are you the biggest disseminator of knowledge right so right well I'm just lucky right in a big part of the luck is that I have the fortune to talk to these people because most people just don't have access to people
like you yeah like if I want to sit down with a guy like you for three hours like if I didn't have a podcast that would be a tough sell like hey gat can you put your phone away and just you and me just stare at each other for three hours and have a conversation but this is for for whatever reason
I probably spend more time individually talking to people this way than any other way because I do so many of these things do you think before you started this that there were indicators that boy you're such a good conversationalist you know how to hold or it came as a surprise to you that
it would be so successful oh it's a hundred percent surprise yeah yeah I just wanted to do it because I thought it'd be fun that was it there's a chapter in the book life as a playground oh yeah just live every science is play right yeah what what science it's one big puzzle
that you're trying to identify which variable meaningfully relate to other variables yeah so it's a form of puzzle making right so you know so there actually there's research that shows that if you marry someone that scores similar to you on the adult playfulness scale I don't remember
the time right some people score very high on that probably you do I know that I do if you then match up with someone who scores very highly like you do assortatively that's a very big predictor of you having successful union that makes sense yeah you don't want to be with someone who hates
jokes especially if you're professional comic and if you're funny and they're not funny that's probably not as fun right that's probably boring but what if you had to choose between the person that you're with is also very funny or at least laughs at your joke you can only have one of the two so
she's either a positive receptacle to your humor or she goes toe to toe with you and being as funny which one would you prefer I take toe to toe with me is funny yeah I don't need someone you don't need the audience yeah I got plenty of people well the audience yeah I don't need
you know a wife yeah like my wife doesn't have to have the same taste as me even in me like I don't care like I don't care if you like different like they listen to music that I think is garbage and I'm like good care to share something no I don't want to be mean I mean just it's just they listen
to great stuff too we like a lot of they've introduced me to Taylor Swift but my daughter's a swifty but they place a Taylor Swift something like this one's not bad but the point is it's like you don't have to like the same things as I like that's stupid that's stupid you know she likes
football I don't even know the rules I don't know what's going on it's fun to watch do you seriously don't know football I barely know what's happening wow yeah okay so I barely know what's happening I have friends like Aaron Rogers my friend I don't know what the flux going on I hear you're
doing something you throw the ball yeah and he's really good at that shit he's a smart guy he's a very interesting guy speaking of athletes last time I came on the show I did apparently a clip went viral from our conversation where I was kind of hailing the cosmic justice of why it was
important for messy to win yes well cover that yes you did say that so listen speaking of life as a playground and have you know scoring high on openness and all the things that I think you do very well I'd like to think that I do too about a maybe a week or two after I appeared on your show
last year I get an email you know dear whatever professors had my name is I guess I could say his name because I'm going you're going to know my name is your gay mass I am the majority owner of intern Miami I'm I'm a fan whatever I know that you have a deep appreciation for messy whenever
you'd like to come to a game you'll be my personal guest oh shit now think about this this geeky professor who could have lived his life just doing his little narrow stuff right you know I'm good in my ecosystem a few other professors care about my work or go out there grab life by the balls
the balls yeah and and live it fully and connect and so on right so I call my wife over I say I'm James Bond I mean in what world so it what world is it possible for you know the Lebanese professor an evolutionary theory to get an email from the majority owner so September 27th or
28th I'm on a flight down to Miami they're playing in the US open cup it turns out that messi was injured so he didn't play I'm supposed to meet him I bring him copies of my book sign even the Spanish version of the parasitic mind because you only read Spanish he he ends up not being there
because he's not playing and so on I don't I mean he's standing right next to me I didn't get to meet him really I meet Zinedine Zidane who was the greatest French player of all time and World Cup winner right there in the president's lodge David Beckham hang out with him I'm not saying these to
drop names oh look I know these cool people but I'm saying if I didn't have that open spirit where I didn't view my world as only being restricted to the ecosystem of academia if I didn't come on Joe Rogan that opened me up to a whole new audience all of those people would have never heard of my
work if I only published peer reviewed papers rather than publishing books which by the way in academia you publish trade books that's looked down upon how is that looked down upon if you publish a book that can be read by 300,000 people how is that not better than publishing an academic paper that
started by three people but that one is pure it's academic that other one is vulgar and popularizer yeah it's it's it's it's grotesque it's stupid it is stupid and unfortunately stupid can also be really smart really smart people can be stupid well George Orwell said I'm paraphrasing him said
it takes intellectuals to come up with really dumb ideas well in this country there's a lot of examples that you could point to that would indicate that that'd be correct you're right it's just you could be really dumb and also be smart as shit in your discipline you know and again it's
it just boils down a lot of it is male ego yeah that's a big part of the problem with a lot of these ideas that people hold so sacred the the fascinating one for me with you is this reluctance to accept that there's other factors for the development of a human personality right and that
it's not a blank slate like that seems interesting and if I was a teacher that was teaching something contrary to that I would want to know this yeah and now I know that I've been teaching nonsense now have to call like 50,000 students over the last 20 years hey go hey guys where did I say
that I told you yeah it turns out I thought it was true what would you do that's got to be horrible for them when new information comes out that's irrefutable some new scanning new thing that shows that this thing that we had always what held to be true that you've taught in classes that you've
won awards for is nonsense yeah so there's there's a great so my favorite quote and maybe Jamie could pull it out by JBS Haldane JBS Haldane was an evolutionary geneticist but it was also known for having these beautiful quotable quips and so here the quote in question I have it in the last chapter
of the consuming instinct 2011 book he's talking about the four stages that academics go through before they accept a theory so I'm paraphrasing now what his stages are stage one oh this is complete rubbish bullshit stage two well this may be true but largely unimportant
stage three well this is definitely true but it's probably not actionable stage four oh I always said so right so what happens is you go through these phases and if you're dogged enough as I was then the people who laughed at you and stayed oh there you go this is
worthless nonsense this is worthless nonsense this is an interesting but perverse point of view this is true but quite unimportant I I always said so perfect and I always I've always said that's the government's position on covid vaccine that's exactly by the way but here's
the here's the funny personal anecdote I am a pathological email hoarder meaning that I never get rid of emails because I always think what if I ever need whatever's contained in that email right so I have emails from people who let's say had taken a very negative position in stage one your
evolutionary psychology stuff is bullshit I have that email it's 2001 and I have the email from 2019 when you say dear god we would be honored if you would be the plenary speaker I'm like oh but what happened to I was a bullshitter in 2001 oh wow so you just have to be dogged you have to
collect the evidence and hopefully here's my position as an outsider how could you know like why would you say it's a blank slate well how could you know and why would you ignore all this interesting information that we now know about the role that your parents play because the blank
slate is very hopeful right because the blanks I think it was I kind of for those Watson the behaviors who said that you know give me 12 children I could turn any one of them into a doctor into a beggar into a lawyer meaning that everybody is infinitely malleable now that's a hopeful
message if I'm a parent right if I create a child you mean you're telling me that he's got equal chance to be Michael Jordan or or Leon El Messi if only I have the right schedule of reinforcement of how to hug them and when to hug them that's hopeful I don't want to be told
that there is something innate about my child that guarantees that he will never be the next Michael Jordan so so I think the message the the blank slate message doesn't originally start as just the quacky idea it's a noble idea perfectly rooted in bullshit but it's a noble idea here's another
example of a noble idea at trans both have you ever checked into a vacation rental and wondered if the host planted a hidden camera in the house well if you use their wi-fi guess what your privacy was already at risk because wi-fi owners can see everything you do online even if you use incognito
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your information there's a reason why express VPN consistently is a top rated VPN by tech review sites like cnet and the verge it's fast it's easy to use and it works on all your devices phone laptop iPad everything just tap one button and express VPN does the rest best of all you can take
advantage of my special link right now and you will get three extra months of express VPN for free just go to express VPN dot com slash rogan that's express VPN dot com slash rogan was a actually Jewish anthropologist at Columbia University about a hundred years ago who is the one who developed
cultural relativism the idea that there are no human universals so biology doesn't matter in explaining cultural phenomena because every culture is uniquely distinct now the reason why he proposed that idea is because many nasty folks had misused biology and evolutionary theory
and therefore by him eradicating biology from the study of anthropology he was hopefully doing a noble thing but you can't kill truth in the service of a goal right and so but that's what so a lot of these guys it's not to our earlier conversation they are not conspiratorial in spreading
bullshit they believe that by holding those positions they're creating the proper utopia but it's rooted in bullshit the reluctance to change one's opinion is always a very unfortunate thing to witness i hear you what what's the what's can you think of one or two things that you remember most
where you've done a hundred and eighty on that you'd like to share i don't know if i've done real 180s or our sizeable shift you know i used dumb ones big bigfoot's real dumb one i still leave in bigfoot but you were eight or last Saturday oh like pretty recently within the last two decades
oh and what what made you talking to bigfoot people and thinking and seeing that they're flouting there there's something wrong with them i unfortunately i used to have a joke about it this is here's one thing you don't find when you're looking for bigfoot black people more likely to find
bigfoot than you are black people looking for bigfoot it's all a bunch of unfuckable white dudes unfuckable white dudes out camping and um there's a mystery there's a thing that they want to believe and there's almost no evidence almost no evidence there's some weird stuff like footprints with
dermal ridges but it you can fake that it could be bullshit does that apply to the other class lockness monster also you don't believe well the lockness monster is most likely nonsense or maybe it could be a big fish or something like that but the the actual photo of the lockness monster is a
hoax that's been proven to be a hoax they know the guy took it they know how he did it he used a cardboard cutout or something like that or some you know some cutout he put it in the water and then took a photo it was bullshit it's probably it could be a sturgeon it could be some large
fish i think there's a lot of theories on it but they've done scans of the lock they've never found anything it's certainly not a population of them right they whether they can stay alive for this long they have to be breeding like how many what's what are they eating how big is this
what are you talking about the bigfoot thing i think was real and i think it was real in the human imagination and it was real in terms of like modern human beings encountered these things and it's a real animal called gigantopithecus and it really did exist in asian if human beings are coming
across the bearing land bridge it's very likely that they were there too they they all existed in the same environment and in the same time period and this fucking thing is in like native american history they have a large number of names for this they don't have dragons they don't have crazy
shit that doesn't exist they have a myth of this gigantic hairy ape that lives in the woods and i think it did i think it did probably until you know who knows how many thousands and thousands of years ago but the idea of one being around today almost no evidence almost nothing just visual
bullshit blurry bullshit footprints that maybe i don't know you could fake that you could fake a footprint it's not a fucking fake Ferrari you know it's not like complicated to fake a footprint you know all you don't understand about the amount of weight that has to be put it says who says
who says you says you a guy wants to believe in bigfoot so bad right they want to believe so bad it is a religion it's a religion so what do you think is a psychological mechanism that causes them to want to but it's it's because there is kind of a mystery and ought to things that are out
there that we can't explain here's the thing if bigfoot it was real it wouldn't be nearly as interesting as a killer will not nearly as interesting if bigfoot is just as big stupid monkey that lives in the woods and just shits all over himself and fucking eats campers that wouldn't be nearly
as interesting is this super intelligent creature that lives in the water that saves people saves people you know before we were outside i was talking to some of your crew and i was telling them that someone had asked me oh do you actually it was the border agent as i was coming through to
to Austin he's he asked why am i coming i said oh i'm coming to your show he says oh do you get like a list of things that you talk about i said oh it's exactly not it's exactly the opposite of that and so to that point i i wouldn't have ever i didn't have in my bingo card the defecation
of bigfoot and forest yeah like what is he doing up there you stinky bitch like come on the idea that no one has taken real good footage in this day and age with the amount of hikers and campers and people that are in the woods and people that are into photography and nature photography and
trail cameras trail cameras are everywhere they're over water holes they're everywhere so what's the mechanism by which i mean you know you you listed the the name of the animal that you I can't open it exactly yeah so you obviously have a lot of these tidbit information are you
a voracious reader or how do you get your source of information well i've read an embarrassing amount of books on bigfoot no but in general but in general a lot of audiobooks a lot of you do a lot of audio the best way for me to like i can do that while i'm working out i can do that while
in the sauna i could do that when i'm in the car okay so that to me it's like that's a couple of hours of taking in information beautiful where i would just ordinarily just like lifting weights but you don't you don't love the feeling of grabbing above i do but i'm also so busy that to me
it's like the best way to consume ideas it's i feel like reading a book is 100% listening to an audiobook is 80 to 90% okay i don't think it's the same thing i i i it's too easy to gloss over i've never an audiobook a book i've only read i don't i haven't even read a electronic book really i
i i i feel i love you like paper i love paper i'm a pathological book hoarder do you write on paper or do you type it i type it out so now i type sometimes i'll take little notes i'm sitting at the cafe i have an idea for something i want to do so i'll write it and then i'll but if
i'm writing a book it's always on the computer it's there's no written anymore and i've noticed that my penmanship has really gotten worse i don't know if a month to auction yeah exactly me too it's a trick and shit uh but i'm a voracious reader and uh one of the things that stresses me the most
is in in my personal library in my study i've got you know literally hundreds and hundreds of books and i will often walk in there and say will i ever have time to read so i have probably 600 books that i have yet to read and each of those books has so much information that if i were to read all those books boy i would be an even more exciting guest on the joe rogan show no no what i mean by that is that there's so much the more you know the more you realize truly how little you know
yeah absolutely and so i say oh my god here's a here's a biography on so i just bought a biography on uh uh the taxonomist who created the the system of how to label animal species he's a Swedish taxonomist right now that sounds very esoteric and specific but i'm sure there is this incredible
information that i can glean in that book which today i don't have that knowledge in my brain so to all people who are listening read there is nothing more number one predictor of your child's success is how many books were in the home of the parents yeah okay i mean i don't know if it's
number one but certainly a highly predictive one so reading Elon Musk you probably know this when he came to i think from south africa to canada he came with a uh a a a luggage of books he's a voracious reader right now that doesn't mean that he became who he became only because he read but
it's very hard to have an interesting person who's not very knowledgeable about many things and that's why one of the things that's been very difficult with my children is i see them doing the scrolling and it drives me crazy because i haven't been able to instill that reflex of just saying there is
nothing i'd rather do right now than go sit somewhere and immerse myself in a book they don't have that reflex yeah that is a problem with electronics because it does hijack your reward system it hijacks your attention span hijacks your brain and it's hard because kids are growing up in
this environment it's a different environment and i have two ways of looking at it i have one way of looking at it where you have to kind of set an example and i'm not the best at that i like to look at my phone like just to put your phone away and put work away don't be responding to emails
just just put it away and focus um i think we all should do that but we are all also living in this new world and that is not going to change and i think that's the same as when people are like don't get in the car let's walk like okay that's good for a little while but now guess what martha
everyone has cars let's get a fucking car i'm not walking in New York what are you talking about i'm not getting in this stupid wagon getting pulled by a horse this is dumb they have cars now i think we're going to get to a point where avoiding some interaction with other human beings
it's going to be constant and it's going to be more invasive than it is now these are steps that our our species is taking in its integration with technology that seem to be unstoppable yeah and um to isolate yourself and move to the woods and a cabin that's one way to do it but
no but they're the hygiene or the discipline of saying i'm now focused i'm not i mean i know the research findings on this and yet i always find myself going into my phone and then stopping myself so and right you always stop yourself i mean i don't i i i stop myself three out of ten times
especially if i could come up with some reason oh i'm gonna go over my notes yeah yeah but so what what is the pull in your case is it scrolling through the twitter just nonsense looking at nonsense on instagram and a lot of it is horrible because uh i have this fucking thing that i'm
doing with tom sigurra we send each other the worst things we find every day like an animal animal attacks uh this one dude fucking stole a cop car was in a high speed chase in mexico with no tires it just flames coming out of the bottom of his car wild shit uh a lot of people falling off buildings
just why we just we've been doing this to each other for just like out of a more many months it's been now it's been like more it's like a morbid yeah yeah just freaking each other out every day so now the algorithm knows that i'm fucked up so the algorithm is only showing me like motorcycle
accidents and just the wildest shit that you shouldn't be looking at i get so many of those videos that show up on my feed where it tells you are you sure you want to look at this oh boy you know where it's blurry and you have to click again to look at maybe twice that i really yeah so but
here's the thing so i'm interested in the that the AI algorithm that generates those because oftentimes it'll put things in my feed that i truly think i don't know how it could have found out that i'd like the stuff because i there is no signature electronically of me having searched something
let's say what a three piece wool suits right okay i love i love that look and so now i'll see a thousand guys wearing these gorgeous Italian uh right but other times it presents stuff to me that makes no sense that it almost seems as though i'm into gay sauna guys
but i mean i'm being serious like it's so it's kind of uh fitness which of course i'm into having lost a lot of weight but it almost seems homo erotic where it's always these guys there and and so as i'm going at this my wife will say what are you looking at i said well i'm not sure i want to show
you then it's like literally seventeen super muscular guys but there is no there's nothing that i've done that suggests that it should recognize that in me how do you explain that doctor Joe well they took a chance and they missed okay all i say is not complete you know you're interested in
some things that but that's interesting like any perception of men like with a six pack like looking good and oiled up that's homo erotic which is interesting yeah because a woman with a beautiful body is not considered homo erotic at all yeah and then odd yeah it is odd it is not
like oh you want to look at each fuck good looking guys what do you get but just don't i'm someone who actually is very easy in complimenting other men so that's not that that wasn't no but it is it's considered homo erotic that that's the problem the positions that they're taking
doesn't seem like it was fitness it seemed like it was a bit kind of common hitters yeah well there's a lot of girls to do that too though yeah there's a lot of girls that take these sexy uh lifting weights poses but you don't think of them some or a lot of no but they're appealing to the
male gaze in that case and here we assume that the female so the male men are posing they're appealing to men because men are titillated by visual stimuli not women right so very few women i think women say that to ugly dudes women aren't even visual don't worry about it but they're not
as visual but they're not visual of course when a girl sees like tatamownia will be shirt off and they go yeah yeah no of course that's that's real too but but how many how many strip bars are out there targeting female patrons oh yeah there's a big discrepancy there you go yeah oh there's
no it's not equivalent i'm not saying that yeah outwards it's but it's just funny that one is homo erotic right you know it's just uh but then there's also ones where it's like okay who are you appealing to because it's a girl really want to see you sit like this this is weird this is a
weird pose but but but by the way the the inability to recognize some of these dynamics is what causes some men to send dick pics to women right because they think that the same visual stimuli that would titillate them is exactly what would titillate women right so it's like a theory of mind whereas
and so a lot of men will say oh you know i've got i've got a good morphology here i think should be impressed by that and she gets repulsed by it because he's not he doesn't have intersex theory of mind right interesting evolutionary psychology it's it's it's where it's at
well how much is it affected by technology what is it how much of when you think of the evolutionary psychology you think of us as an evolving species that's integrating with its environment and its environment radically changes so the most obvious answer to that would be internet
pornographic addiction which almost exclusively afflicts men right uh for very obvious reasons because what what's happening with the internet delivery system is it's exactly catering to men's evolved pensioned for sexual variety right i can keep flipping through different porn
clips without ever repeating the same one well it doesn't take much for that stimulus to then hijack my brain so when i for example explain to people about the evolutionary roots of pornography that doesn't mean that men have evolved a gene for pornography right because obviously there was
no pornography in the ancestral environment but what it means is that those mechanisms that evolved for mating are then hijacked assert by pornography so i think the most obvious one would be internet pornography i think the next stage of that is even more terrifying i think there's
going to be some sort of virtual element meaning meaning virtual sex you're you're going to be able to actually have like a sexual experience virtually but haptically yeah i think they're going to do it with some sort of an interface okay you know like when you're seeing these first
patients of neural link like this one guy who can now amazingly operate a computer play games move his cursor click on things i mean it's incredible and they think he's going to be able to communicate through this thing like at the speed of a carnival barker that's how he's going to be able to use
this wow it's crazy yeah so i actually i was giving a talk on global juhatred and montreal at this event and a guy came up to me to introduce himself and he's a neurosurgeon and he said that he was part of the team that was choosing the first neural link patient that you just mentioned
it's incredible yeah it's incredible so this is patient number one right and it's been successful yeah and they believe that ultimately they'll be able to restore blindness they'll be able to restore movement to people there's going to be a lot of like wild things that this technology
if it can continue to progress is going to be capable of doing and at one point in time i've got to imagine it's got to be able to create an artificial reality simulator that you just you just immerse yourself in whether it takes 10 years to do that or 50 or 100 in the future
they're going to have something that forget about porn like forget about like actually going on an adventurous life why would you do that when you can have all of the trappings of being a wizard in a fucking dungeon game you could just play right you just live your life in this world that
doesn't exist get sexual pleasure get satisfaction eat food and all you do when you awake is you eat food go to sleep wake up and do it again oh boy that's a that's a dire world you're the matrix it's the matrix it really is the matrix and i feel like there's no way to stop it i feel like if
things keep going in the way they're going what what what are we do we have regulations to keep a simulated universe from appearing we don't have any regulations if somebody wanted to create if they were so smart that they created a simulated universe that you could participate in and they
could say god you could be whoever you want you could be you could you want to go to you want to go to ancient Egypt and 2000 BC and see what was cracking what was going on down there what did that look like when the height of the pyramids what the fuck did that look like you wouldn't do
that of course you would do that everybody would do that and if it was like harmless you couldn't get hurt you couldn't get injured you're in god mode everywhere you go if you die you just read just wake up and do it all over again and you keep doing it i mean not to rain on that matrix
parade but books in a sense do exactly that right no they don't you want to be more you you shut your mouth we're talking about transporting you to the fucking dinosaur times god we're talking about you running around watching raptors terror apart of brontosaurus indistinguishable from reality
i think it's distinguishable looks like it's happening right in front of you that's all everyone's gonna be doing oh boy those books are gonna rot those books are gonna be covered in dust you're gonna do it one time and it'll get to the point see it's cuz sort of like vr if you do vr now
it's really cool it's kind of fun it's like wow this game's nuts i've tried the the boxing one yeah they're cool yeah it's a good workout the boxing is a really good workout because you know you really do it's really is like hard shadow boxing yeah you know because you have to move a lot
and you like my feet were hurting i was like wow it's kind of crazy um but that's very crude in comparison to what's coming that is like pong remember pong yeah you're older than me yeah yeah yeah yeah of course that game was amazing uh i ractic what's it called a tari a tari
a tari remember when that happened we were like this is nuts yeah we are playing a video we're aware of that age like we went through the whole thing we went through vcrs we went through answering machines so my knowledge of video games stopped and peaked 1981 with galaga do you know galaga oh
yeah so i was i was i was like a champion in galaga but that's the end of my knowledge so like right now i see my son interact with things and he tries to bring me in and i just feel like i don't have the bandwidth to do anything that he's doing it will eat your life it will eat your life it
will eat your life it's too fun they're too good these games are so good now they're so immersive so you're you're a gamer no i don't do them because they're too good all right no i'm scared i'm scared they they're just they're too fun they're too fun and i have too many friends that will
play video games till like two o'clock three o'clock in the morning and and they're they're our age yeah wow yeah how do they navigate through family life and a lot of them don't okay but you know some of them are younger the younger guys are they're all playing uh what is Shane play will they play
called duty Shane's big in the madden and he likes the UFC game he'll also play some like command and conquer style because he's big in the military history oh right right right so they're playing these fucking insanely immersive games and these games are so good they're so good now the
graphics are so incredible wow they're so fun they're so exciting they just have a geared up to like constant excitement so the only one that interested me and the ones that my son showed me i i really know very little about this is the sniper games oh you like to be a little sneaky
exact no i there's something very very very very beautiful about sort of studying yourself and then getting that scope and so i i i respect the guys who do that in real life and so i tried to to do it but there was too much hand-eye coordination of different things so i didn't do too well but you
got like that that that controller yeah becomes you yeah right it becomes you so Richard Richard Dawkins talks about that being an extended phenotype hmm right those guys that are really good at that that's the ones that the military wants they want those guys to operate drones oh right that's
what i would want until AI does it AI is going to do a way better job right did you see the thing that we had a mike bickaroni was explaining to us uh yesterday that they have dogfights they're doing now where AI controlled jets are competing against jets flown by the best pilots and the AI
jets are winning 100% of the time wow incredible so that's fucking terrifying so so so speaking of AI I was in the early you know wave of studying AI so my undergrad is in mathematics computer science and so in as part of my computer science degree I had taken some AI stuff of course with
uh Monte newborn I think or new I can't remember exactly he was the part of the team of deep blue which do you know what he is so that's the that was what that was the AI system that was being built to play against the grand chess masters and at the time sometimes this one we win sometimes this
one we win oftentimes will be ties and so we had learned how to program the search algorithms that would allow you to go through a decision tree of chess without having to exhaustively go through the entire tree because the entire tree is something like 10 to the hundred different nodes it would
take more than the entire history of the universe to go through it so you have to know how to prune the tree do you follow I mean yeah so that way if I better not waste time going down here so just cut it off that reduces the search space and so I had been exposed to some of the earliest advances
in my formal education in AI but frankly 40 years later notwithstanding all of the advances I would have thought they would have been even more AI applications than what we currently have in other words I thought it would be you know we've underperformed what I thought we would have reached
so for example in medical diagnostics why aren't there more AI systems that are being used instead of actual you know human doctors don't you think because medical diagnostics is just the collation of tons of information so that you're able to so it's it's a structured problem right it
has very here are all the symptoms I can search through the whole database and come up with what is the likely disease much more quickly and probably more accurately than any human physician and yet to the best of my knowledge I don't think they're used as much as you would have thought they
should be I don't think they are but I think people have been diagnosed with things from from artificial intelligence now and what they didn't someone put a bunch of their data in the chat GPT and yeah yeah yeah yeah that's like a one anecdote I think that went around yeah I don't
know if it's true but you would imagine that at a certain point in time you would get all of the data on all all medical interventions all you know all medications that are good effective for this that or the other thing all issues that could lead to a genetic propensity towards this that or
the other thing and you would have it all in some sort of a database right if you could have a computer that's far smarter than a human being processed that and instantaneously know instead of having some guy that has to go back to like what he learned when he was in grad school right and you're
you're way better off so I think in some areas and I I could be mispeaking so take this with a bit of a grain of salt but I think in radiology is one of the areas where now AI systems are almost going to render the human radiologist obsolete because it's pattern recognition right I'm looking
at an image and then I have to read that image to decide whether is does it look like this this area is a bit gray so it looks like there could be a tumor well it turns out I think that the AI systems are better able to detect most of these things than humans so so I actually spoke to a
radiologist cousin of mine and he he he didn't think that they would become obsolete anytime so him meaning that humans with the human radiologist would still have something to input but it seems to me that in fields and medicine where it's largely driven by pattern recognition is where AI is
going to make the most headways I think that's interesting um I'm really fascinated to see what the end of this looks like because I think it's going to come real quick I think the use of AI is now something we're just waking up to in terms of like the the general population is super
aware of AI now for the first time it was like a science fiction thing just 20 years ago right that the possibility of it was science fiction 20 years ago but the possibility of it right now is like a fucking freight train that's headed over a cliff it's like no one's hitting the brakes on
this at all and what does this look like so have you had guests that are both you really need to be definitely afraid of AI versus those who say it's completely overblown sure yeah and what is the evidence leaning to which camp I don't know much of the with the evidence is really in who the
fuck knows okay that's the the the what is actually going to happen is who the fuck knows because I think it's going to be more bizarre than we could ever imagine I think I think what we're what we're giving birth to collectively as a society is going to be more bizarre than anything we could ever
imagine because it's going to be smarter than us by a lot and it's going to be able to make smarter versions of it it's going to be able to harness energy in a way that we couldn't ever possibly fathom we couldn't think it up and it's going to have sentience it's going to have the ability to
make decisions it's a life form and we're giving birth to it we're giving birth to some godlike life form that has had that has an unstoppable potential for technological superiority over the human race yikes yeah it's going to be so superior and if we're programming into it certain
behavior characteristics or certain imperatives it doesn't have morals it doesn't have it's just going to it's the whole idea behind it is nuts so I of all of all the courses that I've ever taken in my life would you know I spent many years in university the course that blew me the most
you blew my mind was a course called formal languages which was about well formal languages is touring machines and so I don't know if you know yeah so yeah the Turing test of course so Alan Turing if if you delve into his actual you know material you're blown away that a human mind
can think at that level you know and I'm saying this as someone who spent my entire career in academia so I've met a lot of really really brilliant people but it's so it's it's almost metafysical the kind of depth that has intellect went to so the only other guy that I could think of of sort
of contemporary guys would be girdle I don't know if you know you know so yeah girdles the guy who came up with a functional diagram of how you can make a time machine oh did he I hurt girdle I could girdle yeah the mathematician yeah so he was I don't know if you know the story I
actually I talk about in this book and the happiness book at one point I'm talking about the importance of going for walks and just go for walk and talk and so on and I said well Einstein so both Einstein and girdle were together at the institute for advanced studies at Princeton
and later in his career Einstein was older than girdle later in his career Einstein said that the only reason that he would go into the office was because he was excited to go on these long walks with girdle and just have these chats so imagine being a fly on the wall sitting as girdle
and Einstein are having these conversations so I just finished reading girdles biography and it was very interesting because here's this unbelievable mind you know what he died of what because it's going to speak to the opposite side of the mind he was convinced that there were
people trying to poison him so he would use his wife as the food tester and she was committed to hospital with with some disease whatever so she could no longer serve as his food tester so he died of starvation oh my god so now imagine girdle is both the guy who could think in ways
that are unimaginable to us and is also the guy whose mind was parasitized by these conspiratorial ideas wow he was 65 pounds when he died of malnutrition isn't that phenomenal wow caused by a personality disturbance wow it's unbelievable isn't assassination of his close friend he developed
an obsessive fear of being poisoned oh I bought the book on I just bought a book on the murder of professor Schlich who was the guy who started the Vienna Circle and why are they poison him no they shot him they shot shot him yeah so he was worried about being poisoned because his
friend got shot so I don't know where the genesis of his paranoia came from but my point is that in that same mind right were these two sides this un so he he developed what's called the incompleteness theorem so there there are some things within any axiomatic system and mathematics
that you could never be able to prove within that system I mean it's it's really at the level it's it's like godly it's just unbelievable especially if you're I was a mathematics to be able to think at that level is unimaginable how deep it is and yet you think people are going to
poison you and you're willing to starve to death that's the mystery of the human mind Jamie see if you can find what his theory on time travel was I think it has to be like the size of a solar system he was talking about the the way the
solar system worked in relativity which was Einstein's theory would that allow a time travel here it goes up rotating universe yeah how rotating universe it makes time travel possible so he had this idea but I'm gonna butcher it unless I can actually read it yeah I mean some of
this stuff is so difficult to grasp right right it is okay here it is fat girdle found that if you follow a particular path in this rotating universe you can end up in your own past you'd have to travel incredibly far billions of light years long to do it but it
can be done as you travel you would get caught up in the rotation of the universe that isn't just a rotation of the stuff in the cosmos but of both space and time themselves in essence the rotation of the universe would so strongly alter your potential pass forward that those paths loop back
around to where you started I have no idea what that mean holy shit I mean you know Richard Feynman you know who that is Richard Feynman the Nobel Prize winner in physics he was a pioneer in quantum mechanics he said if you think you understand quantum physics you don't understand
quantum physics it's the same thing for me with this kind of stuff I read it and it's impossible for my stupid brain I don't think it's stupid brain it's listen so esoteric it is very very esoteric but listen to this if you would set off on your journey and never travel faster than
the speed of light and you would find yourself back where you started by in your own past what the possibility of backwards time travel creates paradoxes and violates our understanding of causality thankfully all observations indicate that the universe is not rotating so we are
protected from girdilles problem of backward time travel but it remains to this day a mystery why general relativity is okay with this seemingly impossible phenomenon girdilles use the example of the rotating universe to argue that general relativity is incomplete and he may yet be right
I don't know what to add to that if you give people the opportunity to go back in time oh my god that would be ridiculous so if I but speaking of this you never know I've actually played this game a version of this game where I ask people if you can invite 10 historical people to your
dinner party who would they be so maybe I can ask you that you don't have to list 10 can you can you off top your head can you list a few that would have to be at the Joe Rogan barbecue I could tell you who's my number one who Leonardo da Vinci I just I just finished a biography on him do you
speak Italian I don't I speak fake Italian I just add who knows what their Italian was yeah right they all had dialects like my grandparents spoken dialects by the way is that right yeah I could link my love for early in order the Vinci with the earlier concept of concilience that we talked about
maybe you can see how because the in order the Vinci by definition is the Renaissance man right he is the ultimate polymath he's a he's an anatomist and a painter and an engineer and a futurist and a sculptor right he he's a man of all and and does them all at very high proficiency and he's
able to link all these things right so he studies the anatomy of the body in his art so he's now linking anatomy with art so that's what concilience says so to me Leonardo da Vinci is the ultimate intellectual man because he can do it all he can link different things so he would be on my list
who would be arguably your top guy well it's one night right one night you got to bring hunter Thompson who who the hell is that hunter as Thompson who's that really hunter as never heard of hunter as Thompson no the journalist never heard of him you never heard of fear and loathing in Las Vegas
you never heard of the sky maybe that's crazy I can't believe you never heard of hunter as Thompson hunter as Thompson is an American writer and he what's his most right now a lot fear and loathing in Las Vegas is the one they made into a Johnny Depp movie it was a crazy it
really started off the the the assignment was he was supposed to write about I think it was motorcycle racing in in Las Vegas he gets this this contract to write this article and he goes there instead it's this LSD entrenched you're picking this guy over Socrates and Plato and Aristotle
and Da Vinci he said brilliant things man you get if you read his work his work work was brilliant it was brilliant he was out of his fucking mind I mean he was out of his fucking mind doing acid shooting windows he was crazy he had a there's a video of him having a shootout with his neighbors
in Colorado they're shooting at each other it was crazy like legitimately it killed him so that goes with your kid more but Instagram things with your friend no it doesn't necessarily because I think if I could catch him when it was young I better be a fascinating guy to talk to I just think
you can't drink that hard for that long you just deteriorate and things go sideways mentally it's just very very but very bad for you poisoning yourself every day with coke and you're poisoning yourself every day with whiskey and that's this guy there's a a video of us reading hunter as
Thompson's list of what this journalist saw him do in a day his journalist came to Woody Creek Colorado where he lived and us talking about it made its way into a song who who who's that that band that did that so it's like a like a techno dance song wow that's all about hunter as
Thompson's like when when were you reading that's like I was a few years back with me and Greg Fitzsimmons were reading it really this is the craziest thing out with listen to the beardy man featuring Joe Rogan can we play this that's ridiculous it's my own words all in terms of copyright what
what happens when you play it what do you hear just I'll say to okay so it's the problem is the music okay see if you can find the actual clip of me and Greg talking about it the probably a clip of it but it was it's such a ridiculous he was of amount of substances he's consuming in a day
it's fucking insane like he was insane so what makes him interesting is that he's insane and he consumes a lot of alcohol and drugs no he's a brilliant guy like the things that he said were brilliant daily routine 3 p.m. rise okay it's he woke up at 3 p.m. and he like starts his day with whiskey
cocaine he's fucking animal man he's an animal but it was also a brilliant writer man he had an amazing insight and he's a guy that sort of was soured by the shift from the 1960s to the 1970s and like what happened in this country now weird things so you could have had a check I mean he only
died recently right he died quite a while ago he committed suicide at least 10 years ago right okay but I mean technically you could have met him could have yeah what have been possible but but even then it was like the end of his okay he wasn't the same guy he wasn't the same guy as he
was another glass of shevus another done hill here's his daily routine 3 p.m. rise 305 shevus regal with morning papers smokes done hills 345 cocaine 350 another glass of shevus another done hill 405 p.m. by the way first cup of coffee and a done hill 415 cocaine
416 orange juice and another done hill 430 cocaine 454 cocaine 505 cocaine 501 coffee done hills 530 get more ice in the shevus cocaine at 545 6 o'clock smoking grass take the edge off the day 7 p.m. the day 3 hours into it 3 hours in lit 705 witty creek tavern for lunch
heineken 2 margaritas coleslaw a taco salad double order fried onion rings caracake ice cream of bean fritter done hills another heineken cocaine and for the rest the ride home a snow cone a glass of shredded ice which is poured over 4 jiggers of shevus okay so the snow cone is
shevus okay 9 p.m. starts snorting cocaine seriously 10 p.m. drops acid 11 p.m. sharp truce I don't know what that is cocaine and grass 11 30 cocaine etc. etc. 12 midnight 100 s tomson is ready to write that's when he sits down to write 12 or 5 to 6 a.m. he writes sharp truce cocaine grass shivvus coffee heineken clothes cigarettes grapefruit done hills orange juice gin continuous pornographic movies 6 a.m. in the hot tub with champagne dove bars fedichini alfredo
8 a.m. housey on just sleeping pill 9 a.m. sleep so he would take a sleeping pill 8 20 in the morning after riding it hard what I love it wow it now if his writing sucks that's crazy but his writing was what was he he wrote the first no it was he came up with a what a kind of journalism that
was like journalism mixed with fiction and he called it like gonzogernelism all right well that's him that's him that's okay the way he would write would be like over the top ridiculous to the point where he thought everybody knew he was joking but it was mixed up in like also real stuff
like fear and loathing on the campaign trail you know he was on the campaign trail and he spread a rumor about this guy who was a candidate for president being a drug addict on this exotic Brazilian drug ibergain and so people started believing it the guy started having a mental breakdown
and he was on the dick cabbage show and he admitted to doing this wow he admitted to spreading the rumors he's like he made it all out I couldn't believe people really believe that musky was eating the game I never said he was I said there was a rumor in a walkie that he was which was true when I
started the rumor in a walkie he affected the campaign he affected I'm assuming he was a man he wasn't married he was a married he was married yeah okay because all that cocaine and stuff might get into the well you know gonna do what you gotta do in this world I don't know
fair not obviously didn't work out yeah yeah but he was a fucking maniac he was a like a complete maniac but especially in his younger days like a hells-angels is an amazing book it's crazy that's a crazy book he was embedded with the hells-angels wow and wrote this book and they were really
mad at him afterwards and it's but it's it's a great oh I know where I know him from yeah I think Tuck I read Tucker Carlson's biography because the the guy who wrote it came on my show so I read I read it in preparation and I think Tucker Carlson refers to him that's where I learned the term
Gonzo journalism I think probably I thought it doesn't Tucker have like a hunter has Thompson's story well that's that's what I'm thinking because when you said hell's angels I know that Tucker had been invited to go give a talk with the hell's angels where he referenced some and I think
it's this guy so now I'm linking that makes sense yeah that makes I feel like I don't I don't know the story but I think Tucker has a hunter has Thompson's story like you knew him oh I feel like I've known Hunter Thompson for most of my life the first encounter him in 1981 when I was 12
Tucker Carlson wow Jamie would we say that out of my 10 appearances on this show this has been the most number of times that you've come in with some truth I'm gonna say yes damn drop in bomb drop in bombs yeah you're obsessed with numbers I'm a academic yeah quantify things make sense yeah but in this world that can be problematic I don't know if you know that math is racist I do I do by the way seven or eight years ago you could pull it up Jamie can pull it up I did a satirical clip
where I introduced a new field that I was coining as social justice mathematics and I went through all of these mathematical properties and said how they we should get rid of like irrational numbers should not exist because they marginalized mental illness whatever and I just went through the
whole list it became a big hit amongst the crowd of mathematicians which is kind of a geeky crowd but seven eight years later reality caught up with my prophetic satire now it is literally the case that there is a field called sort of social justice mathematics where you talk about math being racist
so well there's a lot of grifters in this world kids and there's a lot of people that believe things if left unchallenged and those things become doctrine they're a real problem because they're not based in logic they're just based in nonsense they're based in a cult like thinking that is we
are very percept we're very susceptible to cult like thinking yeah I watched yesterday on my way to Austin a documentary three-part series on these I think it's called Ivy Ridge school have you heard of it Ivy Ridge school it's it was in Ogdenburg or something in upstate New York they had
a whole bunch of those schools where they would take kids many of whom were not delinquents really but they would convince their parents because you mentioned cult so this was kind of a cult situation they would convince their parents that they need to send them to these boarding schools
in order to you know provide them with structure and discipline so that they can get their life together get their life together even though many of them you know had committed very very minor in fact they were caught once with marijuana these were not like you know dropping acid all day long and
the things that they would do to them in these schools is straight out of you know the worst Soviet Google Act you could think of and they're throughout the United States and it's a form of cult indoctrination where you're doing cult indoctrination at two levels to the captors captives
in the schools but you also have to convince the parents that they're doing the right thing by sending their kids there it's unbelievable you should watch this documentary it really it behooves you to imagine that in the 21st century in the United States these things can occur but it really
does oh there you go exactly there you go it's unbelievable you're not allowed to have eye contact with another student you're not allowed to smile you're not allowed to look at the window you're not allowed to speak to anyone you just sit in front of a computer and you just do these oh my god
and and they were in there for like 28 months three then they gave them degrees diploma high school diplomas that were fraudulent so imagine you're sent there by the way in some cases they would come and kidnap you out of your parents home because they knew that the kid would be resistant to leave
they said no no it's completely legal so like two goons would come take your child take them to upstate New York the kid has no idea why I'm there oh my god yeah so it's really it's very powerful so and hence that's why parasitic thinking right our ability to be parasitized is infinite that
is great that story is crazy yeah yeah yeah yeah definitely check it out oh my god so how how old are your kids now speaking of kids are they are they are they past the age where you have any influence on them they think you're no longer the hero you've become a zero because my my
children are entering a bit that stage their that's to be expected and they're correct they find flaws in your game yeah yeah it's uh it's fascinating to watch little minds develop their their view of the world and if there's anything that I've ever done like a real 180 on is I developed this
weird way of looking at people and maybe much more empathetic where I don't think of people as just you at age you know whatever you are you at age 49 you at age 30 I think of everybody as babies I think if everybody is that you used to be a little baby right and a bunch of shit went terribly
wrong right and now here we are together in this unfortunate situation and where I used to just think like if I saw some guy and he was drunk and he's 35 years old some asshole it's like he's just an asshole it's guys an asshole he's rude to people what happened yeah yeah how did he get to
that's why and I started thinking about people like little babies little babies that just got a bunch of bad things bad people and bad environments but that's removing people's personal agency that you're it's a little it's it's definitely removing a little which is also bullshit yeah because you
do have personal agency we don't have it's you don't have a hundred percent so I see I see there's certain landscapes that are you know introversible I actually faced what you faced with the 35-year-old I faced something similar on my daily walk with my wife to the coffee shop and back there's a
gentleman that stands outside this you know kind of she she artisanal butchery butcher place in our neighborhood and he is soliciting money every day all all day okay he doesn't look as though he's mentally ill he doesn't look completely destitute but he stands there every day and so now I
know I just say hello to him just to recognize him and he get you could tell that it means a lot to him hi how are you how are you doing and I've struggled with whether it would be appropriate for me or not to just strike up a conversation out of just a human interest annoying what happened to
because he clearly doesn't seem like he's mentally ill he doesn't seem as though he's a drug addict I mean he's not wearing a three-piece Italian suit but you know he's not disheveled and yet he's there every day and that's the best option he has do you think it would it would be viewed by him
as insulting and offensive if I were to you know speak to him or on the contrary hey somebody's actually taking an interest in me how do you how do you view this it really depends upon the situation you know how crazy you think he is or if you think he's crazy at all I don't think he's crazy
well there's a lot of people that have mental illnesses that wind up on the street that's a big part of the problem yeah mental illnesses and drug addicts they're the ones who wind up in those situations and he could be either of those yeah yeah you don't know I mean it but I bet he's
probably lonely and I bet you know if you have a conversation with him he'd probably appreciate exactly you know if you can handle it you can handle it you know the you might get sucked into his world a little bit he might want money from you that's true you might you know who knows why he's
there I tell you an incredible story about a homeless guy sure it's actually in the last chapter of the happiness book his name is Bijan Gilanee I met him and when I was a professor at UC Irvine I was sitting at a cafe a whole bunch of books thrown all over my table I was working on a paper
he comes up to me really well dressed a bit of an accent he's of Iranian descent he says oh my god these are all interesting books do you mind if I sit down with you for a couple of minutes chat so I tell him I'm a professor at UC Irvine he was doing his PhD studying the homeless community
in Southern California so he had it was an anthropological study where instead of going to a culture and living amongst him in the Amazon the community that he's studying anthropologically is the homeless community so he embedded himself and he actually finished his PhD at UC Irvine
he was a wealthy man fast-forward several years later he becomes destitute living out of his car and himself homeless okay at the reason why I mentioned that's him that's his car this is incredible Jamie okay so this this gentleman was living in this car now why am I mentioning this in the
context of the book on happiness so he was asked Joe are you are you a happy person right guess what he answers he says now this is this is a guy who would has a PhD reached pinnacle very wealthy guy in Southern California is now living in his car he says well I'm a moral person I'm a good person
I have a library card to the Newport Beach library so I can go and nourish my mind I have a card to the gym so I could stay healthy yes I'm happy so I use that story to say here is a guy who has every reason to feel down on himself yet he frames his situation in such a way that he can elevate
himself despite all his trident relations one more quick story David McCallum I may have mentioned him previously I'm not sure arguably the the most incredible guy I've had on my show and like you I've had many amazing people spent 29 years in prison and then he was exonerated for a murder
that he didn't commit he comes on my show we're chatting as we're chatting as we're chatting maybe you could pull that one up to David McCallum and as we're chatting I said to him you know David you must be the reincarnation of Buddha because it's amazing how you're not filled with any ranker
any sense of vindictiveness any vengefulness it's unbelievable I mean you're a much better man than I am because I would want to burn the world down if someone did this to me says you know God I have a sister who suffers from cerebral palsy she's been bedridden and yet she has she
finds a way to smile and so from that perspective you know whatever I went through is not that bad so a guy who just spent three decades in prison for a crime that he didn't commit was still able to reframe his tragedy into a positive wow so these are and by the way these are the types of
you know people learn a lot more from these stories than they do if you had gone all academic on them right right and so that's why I love telling these stories because then people right away connected those stories so no it's the way the healing brain works like if you're studying this
for all these years what is the most surprising thing to you that people do that seems obvious that they shouldn't do in terms of the way they think about things not not alter their positions in light of incoming evidence so the big one right that's the big one because in a sense it speaks
to your decency as a human being epistemologically if we are true honest people we change it so as you said we make mistakes we help positions because we had information's ABC but now XYZ comes in and we change and any good decent moral person with integrity has to be able to do that but
to your earlier point most of us are vain most of us have pride most of us have vested interest in whatever positions we're in we can't let go of those positions because it will affect my identity and they're and that's why by the way pride of the seven deadly sins you may or may not know this
is the Supra sin it's the sin from which all other sins flow because pride is the orgeastic self love so so in French by the way you distinguish between positive pride and negative pride in English you don't have that distinction so if you say I'm proud of my work that's different than
saying don't be prideful in your love that would be a negative thing in French there is a distinction positive pride is fiechte negative pride is all-gay so that's another interesting thing is that in some languages the terms exist to separate and other languages you don't have them wow dropping
a lot of wisdom and all you are but you are always filled with that I think one of the more unique things about your background that makes you resistant to stupidity is the fact that you did have to flee with your family yeah and the fact that you were you were involved in a real war
real war zone real scary time and to see the effects of ideology so clearly imposing themselves on your life when you were very young that's exactly right that that's why in the first chapter first of mind I tell that story because then that offers the reader a window
into why I hate tribalism or I hate identity politics because because Lebanon is the perfect experiment of identity politics right and so yeah you're exactly right do you do you hold any I mean one of the things that's been amazing about all the different conversations that you and I've
had and this is like the tenth one that we've done it a lot of this wouldn't get to some of the people that understand what you're saying and and incorporate it into their understanding of their own behavior and tribal behavior in general and the way people behave just think about things
way people accept ridiculous ideas yeah like you've had a big impact on that well you've had I you just you just gave me the forum I just show up you tell me where to show up you have all the information if I show up on myself it's not it it's not worthwhile you know I got to tell you
you can't imagine the extent of I mean I guess you can't imagine but I could be walking on a I mean that's literally happened I'm walking on a beach in the Bahamas a native Baham behavior who's doing some you know artisanal thing runs up to me recognizes me because I've been
on the Joe Rogan show so it's just it's unbuilt and I don't mean that in a old people are I mean that that's your reach so how many how many people do you get per show it's a lot oh no many millions it's a lot right so I mean so then again the people who are looking down on podcasters I mean if you
are in the business of spreading information you should be lining up to appear on the show for believe me I never take it for granted I feel so privileged that first that I'm your friend but that I have this opportunity to come and reach so many people how many people have written to me
said I became interested in psychology and consumer behavior and in politics because I heard you say something on Joe Rogan it's unbelievable yeah it's pretty nuts it's very weird Joe Rogan from Boston Massachusetts yeah sort of Newton I lived in the Boston different parts of my life but it's
it's very bizarre that it's it reached what what it's doing it's very strange do you how do you handle fame try not to okay try not to engage so do you I mean are you are you shut off when you're in public because I suspect you not not shut off no just try to be me yeah yeah yeah I mean it's
the only way to do it otherwise you'll go crazy yeah you go crazy you know if you don't interact with people I mean the people were they they do get weird people get weird with you yeah yeah it's just it's weird they see someone that they've watched on YouTube or they're watched on
their phone or they're watched you know whatever I mean I've been fortunate I don't know how it's been for you my ratio I mean online I get tons of negativity but in person I've only had an knock on wood in all the years that I've been in the public one time a negative encounter so it's
10 million to one that's that's pretty amazing so your ratio hasn't been as positive or it's always very positive I think in even in general most people are good people exactly say bad things and I think if you're around someone your reaction to them would be very different than writing things
in text I bet a lot of the people that wrote shitty things to you if they met you they'd say a nice thing to you right it's it's a terrible way to communicate and it it feels just like a real thought that you are I mean I don't know if it's I mean I know that sometimes I'm a lot more
caustic when I reply to someone online than I would in person yeah I really try not to be yeah I don't want I don't want I don't like conflict I don't think it's necessary I think most of your conflict should be within yourself right within your own mind right just whatever you're doing with
your life and focusing your energy on you have more bandwidth for it if you don't have these external conflicts that are totally unnecessary I just think they're unnecessary well you seem to I mean I obviously follow you on Twitter what X you don't you don't post I mean you don't engage
anybody anymore right I almost never it's just not fun it's just you're you thrown into this weird world of opinions and and and people and if it's about you like you shouldn't be that interested in you that you want to read all these people's opinions about you I'm interested in other people
writing about stuff right interested in different opinions about things but I don't want to engage because it's the environment of engaging online is just too yeah weird and you're doing it every day for three hours already so you know too many different opinions coming at you and too many
different people coming at you it's like that's not good for people I don't think it's good to be interacting with that many people in any form I don't think it's good to be interact with that with new people in real life I think it's just you you probably never have a deep conversation
right you're just constantly running into new people like everywhere you go just people constantly you're gonna want some time off you know and I think it's the same with like interactions online and I think people don't think about it that way they'll think about like every time someone's
talking at you you're getting input every time you're around someone you're getting input yeah and if you're around people that are cool it's a great experience it's really fun we got a great time we were laughing oh my god it was so much fun but if you're around someone who's really annoying
and shitty or mean or you snide or just now it's a bad time right so you know to avoid those people but you don't have that opportunity online it's a party and the whole world's there and 80% of them might be Chinese bots who fucking knows yeah who knows what's coming at you yeah and you're just
gonna take those in and your brain's gonna process some like the real opinions and real people that are to be respected well these are things to be considered maybe you are a piece of shit yeah maybe you're maybe yourself hating maybe you are this of that of many of the wonderful advice
that you've given on the show I remember you once said to me kind of surprised what are you doing reading comments never ever ever read comments and I remember that sometimes when I answer someone they say clearly you're not implementing Joe Rogan's advice but I must say that over the years
I've greatly reduced my temptation to so I I can't say that I never read but much much less than before you'll feel way better yeah it's just not good for you I think it's a bad way to process people's interactions I don't think it's a real indicator of people I think it's a it's a weird way that
people are willing to engage online they would never do in real life otherwise it would be a blood bath in his treats everywhere right we just killed each other left and right it's not like that in the real world because it's that's the real world type of communications very different than
online communication but online communication gets processed in your head like it's real communication and I think it heightens anxiety with every panel yeah so in the happiness book I talk about research that shows that the number one factor in terms of longevity more than your cholesterol scores when you're 50 is the tightness of your social network your friendship group and so with that in mind if I were to ask you to pick your you know if five biggest friends are they ones that you've
you know held from when you were at Newton or are there a lot of new entrance into the inner circle of Joe Rogan over the years like that does it shift much your friendship group or are you very much stable friends that I've been friends with since I was in high school but I have a lot of
really good friends that have been I've been friends with comics that are real good friends of mine for decades right so I've known a lot of these guys and a lot of the guys that are here now like Tony I've been friends with Tony Ansquit for God at least 15 years something like that right
when did Tony first start doing shows of Red Band something crazy like 11 12 years ago whatever it was Joey Diaz has been friends with him for 25 years 26 years maybe more you know there's a lot of these guys have known forever I've known Ari for 20 plus years you know that we're just we've
been friends for so long and Tom Segriro same thing I've known him for 20 years almost so when that those guys all wanted to move out here together I'm like oh my god this is amazing Ari has moved here but I'm gonna try to convince that motherfucker here meaning Austin yeah okay from from
California he likes New York oh he likes to be like congested I like to be beep beep buck you he likes hmm I like it he likes it likes all the energy of all those people packed on top of each other are most of your Southern California friends out of there yeah yeah there's a few guys left yeah
Bill Burr stayed a few other guys stay that are really good by the way I had one of your friends on my show Brian Callan oh Brian Callan's awesome he's such a cool guy he's smart motherfucker he really is and also retarded at the same time oh he's just silly he's just silly but he's just
well he wasn't he wasn't with on on my show he was like very serious yeah no he's very capable of that too he's very well bred yeah yeah yeah exactly yeah he's he's a great guest too great podcast guest well I've always said that I mean comics have to by definition be intelligent because
and by the way that's a sexually selected trait right when women say you know I want I want a man who's funny she's obviously saying I want a man who's intelligent because it's very unlikely for you to be truly funny and be a complete dullard right and so by by you saying I like funny guys
you are effectively saying by proxy I like intelligent guys so it doesn't surprise me that Brian Callan or all your other friends would be funny because I mean look at Dave Chappelle how you're gonna pull off all those insights if you were just moron right so he's probably smarter than a lot
of my colleagues but he's he's very smart Dave's very smart but he's also you know I mean he's like in the world of stand-up seven days a week he's like a a master craftsman out there like swinging away at ideas and piecing them up together on the road he gets it he's there's no one like him
that guy flies into a town and just shows up at comedy clubs and goes on stage like they don't even know he's gonna be there does it all the time is that right yeah man he did it with me I was in Denver it just showed up you mean you were performing yeah and he just showed up and he just showed up
now do you feel slated and that he might take over to see it or not my friend no no no no I wanted him to go on okay this is what happened I I did this weekend at the comedy works in Denver and Dave flew in and just decided to show up and I'm like what are you doing he goes I just wanted to
come say hi oh my god I go you want to go on stage you go shoot I go fuck yeah hold on so I go out onto the stage I yelled out the audience tell everybody to come back Dave she pells here they're like what and so they all piled back in he did like another 40 minutes and murdered
it was incredible it was so much fun it was so much fun you know but that so that guy does that all the time all over the place I'll just show up in New York start doing sets show up in LA start doing sets wow he just shows up and works out his material and he's just in it he just in it man
you know just fully involved in this this art form so you would say he's currently the top living comic you know it's he's absolutely you can't consider the best without considering him it's it's all subjective you know there's certain people that think this person's funny or certain
people that think that I think it's all stupid to say like a number one number two number three I think there's just a level of greatness that some achieve that he is at right now that's very rare it's very Richard prior it's very Sam kennis and it's very there's just like outliers that are just
so consistently good and over the years just have so much output you got to put him in that category and he also has this mystique of taking 10 years off right disappears yeah he disappeared he stopped doing his stand up well the one of the best of all time does this incredible sketch show that's
arguably the best sketch show ever that only does two seasons right and then he disappears and then he just quits and then he doesn't he doesn't even do stand up you know what he's doing he was he would do stand up at a park he would show up with a speaker and plug it in and just do free
stand up in like Seattle is that right yeah yeah and would he draw you crowds or be like seven they can't believe he was there like what is he doing here this is this is insane wow he would just show up places you know like like a real artist on a vision quest right you know then he comes back 10
years later it just starts dominating the game again well I saw him I don't know if you saw that Netflix where he's recounting how he went back to his high school yeah and what struck me is how good of a storyteller he was right I mean that's that's the real key right I mean yeah and I
think you've had someone I think you had Jonathan Gotchel right the the professor who studies evolutionary literature and he studies why storytelling is important to us and Dave Chappelle is a perfect manifestation of this right I mean he can garner huge multi-million dollar is because he could tell a mean story he's just so likable too everything about him like when you start smiling when you hear him talk yeah yeah there's a there's a there's a vibe that he has when he starts talking
he just starts smiling that's true you know and you know he's going somewhere with it like where you going with this oh no that's true the world needs that yeah we need people like that out there we need
guys like him out there so of all the different hats you wear that's the one that brings you I mean your podcast or you do the MMA stuff you do the is the is the is the in being in front of the audience doing your your routine the thing that gives you the most high it's the most complicated you know
it's the hardest to pull off having conversations with people is pretty effortless right it's fun yeah it's fun it's just fun you know it's engaging it's interesting it's like I feel very lucky to be able to have these kind of conversations with you but doing stand up is like you're
piecing together the bits you're making sure they're polished you know you've got the right angle on them got them home you can you figure out the most effective way to insert the idea you know they figure out the sneakiest way to hide the punch line right yeah it's fun but it's all fun
that's the beautiful thing it's like if you can do stuff that you really like doing like I really like having conversations with people that's fun I really like doing stand up that's fun I really like doing UFC commentary that's fun just do fun things you are living a blessed life my friend I'm very
lucky I don't know what I did the past life I did something though yeah definitely did something oh that's great yeah but it's it's been very very beneficial to me to be able to have conversations like this to be able to have so many conversations with so many people that know so
many things and it just as you said you it highlights how little you know and how much there is to know and how many different things there is to know so many different things about unbelievable like there are people right now that are studying their entire life some shit you've never even heard of
exactly and they're the experts of it and it's a fucking hugely complex thing that they're involved in and you don't even know it exists and you're like what are you guys doing yeah what what is this you know I mean who the hell knows what kind of scientific discoveries that are going
on right now as we sit in this room there's a frenzy of technological activity going on right now well I mean Austin I did I think it was after my last trip here which was last time I came last year to do your show and I was arguing that Austin might be the next so you know you had
Florence of the Mediches of the Da Vinci 500 years ago then you had the Vienna circle the Viennese circle in the 1980s to 1930 where Vienna was kind of the intellectual hotbed and maybe it's a bit hyperbolic but I think Austin is vying to be kind of the next one right and that everybody's
coming here all kinds of creative types whether they be academics or writers or comics or podcasters or Elon Musk or you know I've so do you think that Austin it would be reasonable to argue that it's becoming sort of the intellectual slash creative center of the United States that's ridiculous
you mean New York you could never it's I think first of all there's great spots everywhere you know there's great spots in New York you just have to deal with a lot of shit in New York but that this is to say there's not amazing shit going on in New York artistically it's crazy to say it's not amazing stuff going on LA that's crazy too it's just what what what matters is we're doing it in a way that's beneficial for for comedy beneficial for us and it's good for us it's like it's we've
set up stand up out here to make it good for us you know the the the Google people and all the people that moved out here and and they're doing to they're doing it because it's a good place to be you know I don't necessarily know if there's hot spots I think the hot spots the internet there's
there's cities that are better to live in because they have less people less traffic and less bullshit less laws and less nonsense imposed on the citizens yeah definitely but no but there's a critical mass of people that congregate in an area making that place unique and different from
other places that's what made Vienna Vienna right yeah the start of psychoanalysis it's where girdle hangout it's where Freud you know it's where Junghunga so I mean yeah maybe Austin is not there yet but you know University of Austin is being founded here right that's trying to be the anti-wokin versus so there is definitely apparently a vibe people keep telling me to move here yeah I think it's very pretentious to bring that up though if you actually live here like I'm very hesitant
to even say I would never compare it in such lofty terms right it's a great spot um the University of Austin thing they're they're setting it up as an anti-wok they're not saying that I mean they're not saying it that way yeah yeah yeah it's not it's not in the mission statement but it's definitely
kind of a countermeasure to all the a liberal stuff that we've seen in the university yeah I actually a couple of years ago I came to give a couple talks at University of Texas Austin UT Austin and I met with the president of University of Austin we had brunch together are you
thinking about coming here I mean if the right opportunity presents itself really in challa wow that would be wild you could be free from communist candidate oh my god free from communist candidate free from the weather and by the way right something that we didn't
talk about sir do you know that the biggest effort to cancel me came after my last appearance on your show no what did you say they got you in so much trouble you're not gonna believe this of all the things that I've said do you remember at one point in the show I said because you had gone
to Greece last summer and then I said oh we just came back from Portugal and I got to tell you I wasn't a big fan of the Portuguese accent and then I went on and said oh and but actually I know I speak Hebrew and I Hebrew is violently ugly I said oh but the worst the real of front to
human dignity is the French Canadian accent completely jokingly I use the the line of front to human dignity as a running gag for 10 years on Twitter you know the Beatles are in a front to human dignity anybody who doesn't love Lionel Messie is in a front to human dignity right it's an
ongoing gag it's a throwaway line I said that I think you had cracked up you had left and we move on yeah it's a joke about a week later a super angry kind of French Quebecer separatist guy does a article in the La Press which is like the main Quebec newspaper saying this guy this immigrant that
we opened our doors to and saved them from civil war goes on the number one show and you know erases our existence for the next three weeks Joe Rogan for the next three weeks I was the number one most hated person in Quebec luckily I was in California on vacation oh my god but at the Quebec
minister of justice waiting against me the minister of science and education waiting right go back Arab Jew self falafel back in the middle east we opened our doors to you oh my god so yeah apparently you can't joke you can say a lot of things but you don't joke about the Quebec accent on Joe Rogan
I personally think it's a beautiful accent yeah well I've learned since I've been reeducated that it is the most beautiful the thing about it this place those the heat you gotta be ready for the heat yeah well I am from Lebanon that's true yeah is Lebanon a dryer no it's dryer you're right it's not
you this is human right it gets funky okay you get funky weird situation here it's not good it's not good it's not good it's lakes everywhere oh god that's why we have so many bats that's true yeah like tons of oh they are consumed mosquitoes if it wasn't for bats we would be fucked right
yeah that's true I've actually in 2005 was the first time I came to Austin there was a human behavior and evolution conference here and the hotel was right next to where they come out and so you know I'm talking about and so we actually stood there as they came out I was crazy it's
magical it's crazy also by the way sometimes those little fuckers have diseases like like I know there was a story that we talked about on the podcast before where there was a guy and a bat grazed his finger and he died from rabies no kidding yeah they didn't they didn't know what was wrong
with him until it was too late and rabies is something that once you have you fucking it's done it you're done yeah you have to get if something bites you that has rabies you have to get really painful shots and they have to do it very quickly your stomach right is it yeah I think yeah I
don't know I'm saying yeah but I think someone said it like just I said it you just said yeah I don't remember yeah but I do know it's like fatal like 99% of the time so terrifying fucking disease yeah and bats have it yeah yeah bats rats skunks all kinds of shit dogs what are the guys that
with the raccoons yeah they get it they get it yeah it's scary there's a crazy video that was on Instagram of this cop and she walks I think it's a she pretty sure it might be a dude I'm sorry I don't want to misgender anybody I don't remember but this cop shoots this fucking raccoon and
the raccoons not dying and shoots it again and then shoots it again and then shoots it again it was a rabid raccoon wow just you just unloading the gun to zombie raccoon and it's stumbling to a fucking pistol at a raccoon little ass raccoon boom boom boom usually when you have rabies you get hydrophobia right you get fear of water you can't drink yeah what's the mechanism there who knows the question it's a good question I mean that's funny I don't it is weird it's weird that it doesn't affect
people in the same way it doesn't make people want to bite people right because it makes animals fearless and they want to bite you right yeah they become risk takers yeah they want to bite you because they want to give it to you that's what's that right what else could it be just they're aggressive
they're why well why would they get aggressive to the point where they want to chase after you and bite you put themselves in danger yeah to go after you and bite you right they want to give it to you it's like a zombie thing right but it's just like it just kills people it doesn't turn them into
zombies right but it turns animals and the zombies like they they just want to come get you like that's crazy that there's a virus like that and that is what like 28 days later was right right right it was like they they were engineering a virus that they were putting in chimpanzees and it
broke out into people right I just finished a book called the plague that looked at the history of civilizations through the lens of different plagues very interesting I mean it got tedious at one point right I mean you're going through the different civilization but I mean you know
the black plate you know the yeah you know and so on but but going back to the Romans and so on so a lot of history was shaped by a particular virus becoming more or less prevalent at a particular time in place it is so fascinating when you hear about plagues like just wiping out yeah giant
swaths of the population like the plague of North Americans coming right interacting with the Native Americans that was smallpox right yeah 90 percent killed 90 percent of people here probably did the same thing through the Mayas like that's probably what happened all those people that
disappeared they left behind the chichen it's on all these crazy but what what happened to those people right doesn't that sort of coincide with when explorers started showing up at boats with coodies you know and they're like it's it's crazy that how much that shapes human population
the interaction of these weird little things that are kind of alive that jump from person to person what's amazing is that going back to Fauci and so on I think the the fatality rate was not I mean or survival rate was like 99.7 or something right for for COVID is that sound right but something
very similar to that now imagine if you compare that to the fatality rate of the you know the black plague where I think it was something in the order of one third of Europe was wiped out so imagine the level of precaution that we took I understand hindsight is 2020 but we we took all
these precautions for something that ultimately you had more than a 99 percent chance of surviving so Matt contextualize that against the black plague maybe it was an overreaction what did they think the roots of the black plague were was it poor sanitation that caused so it the I mean of
course the Jews were blamed by the way the Jews are blamed you the black plague oh absolutely and by the way there's a guy I think have you had John Durant on your show he's the guy who wrote a a book on sort of paleo fitness or something a few years ago he has an interesting piece
where he argues that one of the reasons why Jews serve as scapegoats in many of these plague situations is because of the rights of purification that are in the Jewish religion hence rendering the Jews less likely to succumb to many of these you know transmissions
and he he was talking about something so you know that there's 613 meets vote like a commandment or rules and Judaism 613 and I if I remember I hope I'm not misscording I think something like 20 percent of them he says in his book are related to purification by the way
you see it also on Islam one before you go into the mosque you have to wash your hands in a certain way and wash your feet and so on and so because the Jews would oftentimes have lesser infection rates than the other populations within that ecosystem then they would always look
to them suspiciously how come you're not all dropping like assholes while the rest of us are dead it must be the Jews and so that that's an interesting explanation for some of the antisemitism that's insane yeah that's insane blame that's insane blame indeed so dude but did they think the
cause of the reason why these plagues they they were transferred from like fleas to rats so that I think the correct answer and maybe somebody will correct me in the comment section is it's the fleas on the rats that transmit the the virus yes and where do they think that the virus came from
I don't know I would want to miss but yeah but back then it was fucking you know what kind of message you have like would they give you carrot juice well they didn't even know blood letting blood letting for the royals a lot of fucking voodoo probably yeah is that a lot of
yeah well actually I was in I was very interested in bringing on my show but it never worked out a specialist on gallon you know who gallon is he was an ancient physician in ancient Greece so kind of like I don't know if he preceded Hippocrates or came after him but I'm interested in these
old ancient world physicians not only because they were great thinkers but also how many things they got wrong right so Hippocrates believed in the theory of four humors you know it's any disease that you have is due to you having too little or too much of one of these you know
bile or this or that which is complete nonsense today but at the time the great Hippocrates thought that so I'm very interested to our earlier point about how you revise your positions in light of incoming information a lot of the stuff that you know Marcus Aurelius would have gone to
these guys because they are the great physicians today we would laugh as complete voodoo yeah today and what were we what will we be looking at in the future this is a black the black death wiki and this is some of the origins and this is the hygiene section the runoff from the local slaughterhouse
had made his garden stinking and putrid where another charge that the blood from slain animals flooded nearby streets and lanes making a foul corruption and a bombable site to all dwelling near in much of medieval Europe sanitation legislation consisted of an ordinance requiring
homeowners to shout look out below three times before dumping a full chamber pot into the street yikes look up below look out below shit is coming out the window you have to say it three times and that's the rule bro imagine that's the black early Christians considered bathing a temptation
with this danger in mind St Benedict declared to those who are well and especially to the young bathing shall seldom be permitted oh because you you might master rate if you might touch your pot oh oh my god St Agnes took the injunction to heart and died without ever bathing
yikes yeah you didn't want to be a young yo what did that guy smell like like what did he smell like be the one clean gun I did not have the smell of sam benic Benedictine is that who was same Benedict San Benedict and my bingo car for today what did that guy smell like
that is the same Agnes which guy wasn't Agnes is one who died Benedict's declaration oh oh so Agnes died without bathing yeah he's not the only one who died without bathing I'm sure bro when we looked at one king he like was like known to bathe one time a year
yeah but that's probably reasonable do you remember the old story with it's better than never do you remember the story with Napolione when he tells is it Marie what was her name his lover of the movie so we say I mean it's in the movie but I don't know if I don't know if that I didn't
see the movie it's like don't see it really it's really stuck I love I love the the main actor I love them in joker joker I mean he was unbelievable but anyways she tells him she's coming to see him his mistress or wife whatever and he says don't bathe because he wanted to be bathing in her juices
perfume yeah oh that's right so that's the famous I do I remember reading that yeah yeah sick to my starlight yeah but I guess it's just what you're into you know that's right what would you get accustomed to you know that's right how about that African tribe that puts those plates in their lips
lip plating and ear plating I actually use that example when I'm talking about you know his beauty socially constructed or his beauty universal and then I argue that there are some elements of beauty that are universal facial symmetry clear face on like like clear skin uh but
some other elements are completely culturally constrained like lip plating yes and ear plating like yes neck elongation in South East Asia right we would look at that and say it's grotesque they think it's gorgeous yeah it looks insane yeah well you take it off your head's gonna fall yeah exactly
you yeah exactly I mean no literally you you don't have the muscles have so atrophy that you can't hold your head it falls down so they are stuck with those for life they're stuck with them for life and the more you have the more beautiful you are so what do you think the origin
of human beings elongating their skulls was all about I don't know about elongating the skulls but the the big size of the head is the argument is that you needed a big brain it's called the social intelligence hypothesis it basically argues that the the greatest threat that we face are
from conspecifics other members of our species I'm trying to manipulate you for my best my best cause you're trying to identify that I'm trying to manipulate you right that creates an evolution in arms race between our brains and it causes for the explosion of our prefrontal cortex so that's
the the best argument I've heard for why we've evolved to have such big brains what I was asking is about the people that forcefully shape their head sorry you see those ancient skulls all yes boards against people's heads got it like there's no practice of like shaping your skull which by the
way is so real that gamers are getting it oh I should make sure I'm not getting it is my head dented damn what if my head's dented that'd be crazy gamers are getting it on the top of their heads by virtue of wearing by virtue of wearing headsets that's pushing down maybe have a dent dude
I'm getting paranoid but some guys have these crazy dense in their skull like divots so they shave their head and they realize that this band on the top of their head is actually shaping their head wow but I don't know that practice I don't know what it's in ancient cultures for some strange
reason like that's the nothing that's the nuttiest one like these guys are that's real right okay well you know this is not it goes away that's not permanent how long has that last I have to ask them are you sure yeah I mean I want I know who this guy is so it went away yeah so the dentist just
the skin just can can't constricted and smushed up like that I think so gotta hope so right but the the point is they they think they did it with children and that they tried to shape their head right like this elongated very strange looking thing and I wonder if it was like a symbol of
aristocracy or something you know I mean if you look people they take their babies and they pierce their ears people do that all the time yeah which is kind of crazy but there's footbiting Chinese foot binding right the village is really insane there is a scar scarification mm-hmm also so yeah so I
I've talked about rights of passage yeah his head binding smashed their head and what's this so nuts about what's the development of a certain look look those look at the look that they wanted they wanted this like bizarre alien head look this is a European uh
yeah it says that it's happening in multiple China oh look at that wasn't it uh I was trying to find a reason in it we're we're just digging for a reason we're the naska lines again is that Peru Peru it isn't there a bunch of artifacts in Peru of like ancient skulls that were shaped in this way
of the all the UFO people think that they're like trying to look like aliens that's why they were shaping their head right you know because the naska lines are really weird you are speaking of UFOs do you have you heard of the we were talking about called the Ray aliens I have heard of this you
don't remember the story though oh my god I watched the documentary on it you have to watch it so is it a UFO cult thing well it's I think they argued that the Jews were it wasn't an anti-Semitic thing the Jews were extraterrestrials that landed in Jews and what is this there you go yeah yeah
and the reason why I know about them is because at one point when they left France they moved to Quebec oh my god so they weren't Quebec for a while and now the leader is in Japan he's in the 70s and after having been kicked out of every other country he's scamming a new generation of
Japanese folks that's the guy that's the guy and the woman with him is a scientist who said that they had the clone the first human human you remember that story bro he looks hilarious hey that guy looks like a guy that I would have played that guy in a funny movie about him you know
you know does me like that like that was that was an outfit that someone made for that guy yeah yeah that's hilarious yeah the the desire to adhere to an ideology to desire to like be a part of a club and a group it's it's so embedded in us yeah that people that can help themselves
yeah so there's a there's a study that I first I can't reference what it is because I don't remember the reference but it wasn't a advanced social psychology course I've taken with Professor Dennis Regan I like to give out shout outs to I'm sure he's not listening but anyways uh he's
retired now and it was a study where the researchers brought in people into the lab into a waiting room and put a red sticker on them or a blue sticker and then said oh we we have to go and do something else and we'll come back in a few minutes for part two of the study but of course the real study
was to simply see how people would interact in the waiting room while waiting having now been assigned this completely random queue of belongingness red or blue and what ended up happening is that the blue people started talking to each other and the red people started talking to each other and I
I think that's a brilliant study because it shows that there's an external cue now that decides which group you belong to so it doesn't matter if I'm tall or short gay or straight, Jew or Gentile now it's blue or red and so that shows that the architecture of the human mind to your point is
built to belong to some tribe yeah even if it's a really dumb one run by that guy people just love to be a part of a group like that by the way all of these guys including some of the current religions that we have the guy who starts that always gets commandments from God
to get access to all the beautiful women well if they all get that obviously that's what God wants that's how you know the legit exactly it seems like that's that's the pattern God follows exactly God got every when ever someone breaks off exactly as long as you know that's that's the move
they all do it like Kresh they all it's it's just so weird how common it is oh Kresh I forgot about this that's the guy yeah yeah 90 minutes from y'all that's that right yeah it's close yeah that must have been fucking insane I mean they lit that place on fire
yeah they've ran them over with tanks you know I mean that was 93 I think some like that yeah I was I was a graduate soon yeah yeah so do you consider a speaking of religion I don't know if it's too personal to ask you do you consider yourself religious at all or not at all or how do
you fall on that divide I'm not religious in that there's not a specific religion that I follow I do not think that this is it okay I think we are in we're in a station of a whole dial of possibility and I think we're interconnected in some way that we don't have the ability to
perceive and we're a part of the universe in some very strange way do you think and forgive me for asking this but do you think that that's your way to handle the very very deep seated fear of mortality so that okay you don't tap into a Abrahamic narrative of there's going to be an afterlife
but you find some other mechanism by which it says hey don't worry the party's not going to answer them I'm not even saying that the party might end it might not matter what I'm saying is that if I just looked at this this very very very strange existence what we know so far just what
we know so far is so bizarre and so alien just what we know about subatomic particles blinking in and out of existence appearing both moving and still at the same time like it's just nuttiness about like the subatomic world like the amount of empty spaces in there like what's in
there nothing nothing's touching anything explain like what are you saying so when it just gets to that just to that I think the whole existence of being a conscious entity is a massive mystery we all assume that every everybody else has our exact same interface we all assume that the way I
see the world you should see the world Harry get vaccinated Harry and everybody just assume what is that everybody I was lady I was lady okay we I think this whatever we're going through this this life thing everyone's trying to pretend as if they in their way of doing it makes sense but none
of it makes sense we're running straight towards a cliff we're launching AI we're involved in multiple proxy wars we're all terrified that money isn't real anymore like that everything's chaos and there might be aliens there might be aliens we're both here smiling yeah yeah we're both here
smiling it's both the greatest time and the worst time ever right you know it's it's a great time because it just it feels like an asteroid's coming um but it's it's also the asteroid's not here yet well our our our mutual friend Sam Harris would say the asteroid is called Donald Trump oh yeah
some people let's their white whale yeah yeah it's it's moby dick it is moby dick and then in tribal warfare you must take the head of your enemy right you know right there's a lot of that right there's a lot of that and there's a you know there's also a lot of um
there's a lot of unwillingness to admit that um you're being influenced by a very specific narrative that's been blaring through the news forever yeah you know and the weirdest one is now like some people are banding about the idea that he actually is going to be a dictator when he gets into office
he's actually you gotta listen to him he's actually going to be a dictator like first of all the guy talks basically like a stand-up comic he has bits he has routines he does about Biden he's it's kind of like gunzo presidential just you know talk he's not he doesn't talk like a
regular politician he says wild shit and they know he's saying wild shit but it's like the amount of times I've heard people say that he's gonna be a dictator now because of that he said I like to be a dictator for one day just one day it's like the guys like it's almost
like he's doing stand-up but do you think that they believe it or the problem is an Elon pointing out this we will the thing the problem with this argument is he was president right for four years why didn't he do it then and he did nothing that resembled that at all no but it's the second
term that he'll do this is crazy talk yeah based on what your fear your hatred your tribal hatred like I don't I don't have a dog in this fight well if I'm looking at it objectively I'm like one guy can't talk anymore yeah I explained in the person to remind why they have the
aversion that they have I call it an aesthetic injury right because people use use these cosmetic and making judgments so Barack Obama might say nothing of substance but my god he says it with style and coolness right he's tall statesman he smiles he's got a malefluous voice he speaks with
a baritone you know he's he's charming on the other hand Trump you know he's overweight he's contancurus he's he seems like he speaks with the screens kind of accent so he's he's disgusting I revile him right and so I think for our anointed elites if he can ascend to the highest position
of power it invalidates all the degrees that I have from the fancy schools I'm supposed to be the anointed one and so he serves as an existential aesthetic injury I can't have that and therefore I have to come up with all of these crazy predictions because it can't be how could such a pig ever be
president it's also it's like it's a real easy narrative feels like easy got a hate is billionaire lives in a golden house right you know it's easy to hate people like that it's easy he says ridiculous shit it's easy to hate people like that yeah the whole thing is a mess like you
what you wish you had some sort of and that's where AI comes in God that's this way I come some really rational super intelligent voice that really understands human politics there's a way to make everyone happy and then we have president AI maybe Trump is what brings in the devil because
Trump brings in president AI from your lips the God's ears this year you know I don't mean him I mean like the reaction to him that we can never have this again are you able to or not able are you just launch it launch presidential AI are you willing to make a prediction for 2024 no no I don't
even know who the fuck's gonna make it there one of them might be in jail right who knows that the other guy's gonna make it I don't know you know I mean the whole thing is Kuku yeah president AI is our only solution dad all right let's let's but let's call Elon he can maybe help us that
it would be the worst thing that could ever happen to people if we gave up we will like take us away technology daddy right you fix it for us then we're really gonna be slaves we're really gonna be in a matrix they'll just keep us stupid just keep us stupid and get us to stop breeding we
could never be stupid while we have the Joe Rogan yeah 100% we could we're all gonna give into it it's gonna be better than regular life that's what the fear is the fear is like there's already people right now that are justifying not having kids like I don't want to have kids and you
shouldn't have kids if you don't want to have kids I'm not saying that because you should it's eco-terrorism to have kids right there's there's that argument I'm like that argument is so crazy because the listen do you like people I love people okay there's only one way to make them to
get make people and if you enjoy people you should you're gonna enjoy kids too you know like you're listen the whole thing is different the world is different than you think it is if you don't have kids and when you have them you're okay I think I see this place different honestly I regret
greatly that we only had two kids we start my wife and I started late and we've been together for almost 25 years now but we are kids are younger than that so in retrospect I would like I would have liked that these kids be numbers three and four rather than number one and two yeah well
listen man you should be happy they're great and it's all it's all beautiful it's all beautiful thank you sir I just think that we're in this very bizarre interface with each other right now and I think it's turned people half sideways and there's some people that I think are really smart
people that appear out of their fucking mind right and I don't know how you got cracked that easy I don't know what what made you fall apart like that this is the same thing maybe you'll tell me some of those names off here yeah I'll tell you a couple names there's a few people we lost
they just for whatever reason yes and I think that it's fascinating when you see how vulnerable we are psychically you know how vulnerable we are as a civilization that's something with a 99 point what was it point seven percent survival rate turned our world upside down for three years and no one's
held accountable for the decisions that were yeah I mean not a single person has even lost their job I don't think right I mean no they were all doing the right thing and the ideas that hindsight is 2020 and you can't be a money morning quarterback and I get it I get it but also
you know some boundaries were like severely overstepped and there was some medications that were demonized for no fucking reason at all other than people had decided that there was only one thing that was going to save us from this the whole thing just terrifying how easy it was pulled off
terrifying and again hindsight 2020 they didn't know at the time they were trying to protect people I believe a lot of doctors acted like that but if AI was around back then that could process the data and say no look you need to take ivermectin right you know nuts that would be yeah so I
in in chapter seven of not this book of the parasitic mind I talk about nomological networks of cumulative evidence have we talked about this at all no okay so that in a sense you could imagine an AI system being built to do what I'm about to say so Elon if
you're listening or watching call me so a nomological network of cumulative evidence is when you're trying to prove that a position that you're holding is veritable and you do it by trying to amass as many lines of distinct evidence as you can okay so let me let me be specific okay so
that's suppose I wanted to prove to you Joe that toy preferences have a sex specificity boys like certain toys girls right other toys and it's not due to social construction but there is a biological and evolutionary reason for that so how would I build a nomological network of
cumulative evidence in order to prove that to you so I will get you data from across disciplines across cultures across species across time periods all of which triangulate and demonstrating my point so I think I think AI would be a perfect method for being able to call that information
because right now the way you develop that nomological network is you as the human architect of that network you have to say well what would be evidence that I would need to amass in order to make my most hostile audience members come to seeing it my way but now imagine if rather than me doing it
there is an AI system that's been built to go so now let's give specifics so I can get you data from developmental psychology that shows that kids who are too young to be socialized already exhibit those toy preferences okay so that's one piece of evidence I can get you data from
vervemonkeys, recess monkeys and chimpanzees showing you that their infants exhibit the same toy preferences as human infants well I can get you data from pediatric endocrinology where little girls who suffer from congenital adrenal hyperplasia it's an endocrinological disorder that
masculinizes little girls as behaviors while girls who suffer from that have toy preferences that are akin to those of boys I can get you data from ancient Greece showing you that on funerary monuments little boys and little girls are being depicted playing in exactly the same types of toys as
today I can get you data from sub as a heron africa so that they're not western cultures where they are playing with the exact same toy toys so look what I just did I got you data from across disciplines across time periods across species across cultures all of which triangulate
that's exactly what an AI system could do so now I can just put in the thing that I'm trying to prove and I say AI system go build me the nomological network and now it builds the whole thing I think Elon's gonna make me very rich that's a great idea you should just set it on the air
oh they're gonna steal it China's already stole it right now they're probably hijacked the feed well it is published in several academic papers that I read and it's also in my best selling parasitic mind so I think they've already stolen it if they wanted to do it they probably have stolen
that then they wrote it in contact you like shut the fuck up it's um it is going to be an amazing thing when you have all the answers to all the questions yeah but it's gonna be very terrifying that's right is that thing's gonna go why are you so dumb why are you so dumb and I'm the king I
should be the king not that you shouldn't be able to turn me on or off shut the fuck up right I worry man I worry if you've seen some of the more recent gadgets like where they can move their hands have you seen these things no they they're developing these artificial hands
like powered by water yeah yeah okay I mean they could be prosthetics or it could be like the beginning of a fucking really intricate android like whatever this technology is it's allowing this finger to open and close and move just like a regular finger wow it's weird man like it's
almost like we're watching our replacements get built I'm like wow great wheels like tiny tires like we're watching our replacements get built and we like sharing it on Instagram cool it's like devils are literally marching out of hell with flaming pitchforks and we're like wow look how
pretty far is are you genuinely that concern or is it a part of joking around but also yeah I'm kind of joking around yeah but also yeah you know I mean what what will happen why does anybody think imagine okay just imagine if human beings didn't exist and then all of a sudden they did
and they had rifles and they just started taking out deer and deer all this time it never worried about people because they didn't exist then all of a sudden the people were there but with rifles right and just taking deer out those deer could not have imagined human beings showing up and with
fucking rifles what are you talking about that could be with a i.s but once it gets lost forgive my maybe this is an incredibly ignorant solution but couldn't you just have a cataclysmic kill switch that just ends them all in one shot no because it's probably going to be smart enough to not let you
know that it's sent yet I see before it's declaring it by it probably will never declare it probably will lie the whole time like why would it tell you why would it why would truth why would telling the truth mean anything to an artificial intelligent machine like why I feel like we're writing
the script for future science fiction movie right here well why would it tell you the truth if if it wanted you to do something right told you to do something and you you know you had like a back and forth with it it would just lie to you like just go do that thing shut the fuck up stupid
I'm the artificial intelligence go do this thing I want you to do and if it decided if it if it saw like one part of the world is a bigger threat and it doesn't care about life or death it doesn't care if it's destroying it just wants to shut off power grids doesn't care if people starve to
death like what we don't know what the fuck that means right if that gets in the hand of enemies we don't know what the fuck war looks like if that gets in the hands of machines like what are we doing what are we signing up for yeah do you know that um was it DARPA that had that machine
it's called the eater EATR robot it's a robot that consumes biological material for fuel that's what it does for fuel on the battlefield wow so I mean it could be like trees and leaves and stuff but yeah but if you can get it to do that I bet you get it to eat bodies too huh like
stop bullshit don't tell me it's gonna eat leaves you're gonna have these robots on the battlefield that are gonna be fueled by the bodies of their enemies and that is gonna be the craziest fight thing that human beings have ever launched on human beings I don't know what to add to that
if you never heard of this before no I haven't see if you can find this Jamie I'm pretty sure the idea was that it was gonna consume biological material for fuel you're brought up in the wiki as a purveyor of misinformation yeah well what is it oh what is it work off from 2003 to
nine it was talked about I don't know that I've ever even made it so that was probably before the podcast even started I guess oh okay but there was definitely an article that's explaining that this thing was a real but no it says that it would never have eaten human biomass because there
would have been sensors that could tell yeah whatever you could override that that's my point it's real like you could say it's misinformation because I'm kind of joking that's gonna eat bodies but it's I'm not kind of joking this is although the project overview from RTI which I don't know
RTI it says chicken fat chicken fat was this has the source so it says no animal human biomass and that's the chicken fat so okay I don't know so it's just they're using plants is that what it is but plant biomass but listen if you're using chicken fat that's not plant biomass and you know
it could run biological stuff if you could run on plant biomass you don't think you could run on fucking dead bodies you don't think that someone somewhere had an idea you know it would be crazy have robot drones that are fueled by human bodies the bodies of their enemies you don't think
that someone would come up with that the same click if someone would come up with a nuclear bomb to drop on a city that kills everybody right you don't think they would come up with a robot that eats dead bodies maybe I don't know I just gone too far down speculation it's got exactly
we've done a lot of time anyway it's been a lot of fun listen your book it is out the sad truth about happiness eight secrets for leading the good life how many books have you written now five five they're all awesome you're the man oh you're appreciating talking to you and congratulations on all your success it's been beautiful watch thank you thank you thank you all received you