#1861 - Dave Mustaine

The Joe Rogan Experience by Joe Rogan Park Gas by Night All Day Over up. Dave, what's happening? I'm excited to talk to you, man. You've had a wild ride for life. You really have. I love people like you. I know you. Yeah. No, obviously you're here, right? Yeah, and what a fucking wild ride though. I mean, everything. Your religious background, the being the first Metallica, I mean, it's pretty wild. What is it like looking back?

Does it seem, I mean, being a part of Megadeth and being a part of Metallica, like your rock loyalty? Thanks. Thanks. I, you know, first off, thanks for having me on. My pleasure. It's a, I'm stoked to be here. Yeah, what, what was it like? There's so much to explain, of course, you know, being in Chobius that there's different degrees of, you know, how excited you can get. And then you have one of those days and it's like, yeah, shit, it'll never be better than this.

And then, you know, keep working hard. And then, you know, you're going to have to be able to apply yourself, associating with the right people. And there's always going to be another level. My sensei, California, the train was since he banding the jet Yuki desi. And he was one of the all-time greats. Yeah, yeah, that's my first black belt came from, I sensei many. That's amazing. We at the Jet Center? Yeah, I was in, I'm number 17.

So when I went to California, this was one of the first places I went to. I wanted to go to the comedy store and I wanted to go to the Jet Center. I got ruined in the earthquake. Yeah, I was there right afterwards. The rains came, the roof was all fucked up and they wound up having to close the place down. Yeah, yeah. Then he had a place in North Hollywood for a while that I went to. Yeah, that was owned by a Vans. I went there a couple times, which didn't have the magic that the jet said.

No, I didn't, right? Knowing Bill's super foot Wallace and Chuck Norris and all these greats that got in there. And Blinky Rodriguez. Blinky, Blinky, I was really close to it. Blinky, my wife had trained with Sensei Lili Rodriguez, too, before her unfortunate pass. Oh, yeah, she was a bad ass. She'd be, when did she pass? She was probably in the last 10 years or so.

I remember that there was a lot of talk about her in June Castro at the time about, you know, who was the toughest and she had fought June and June Broker leg. And I can't remember how long she had had continued to defend herself before she stopped. I think actually someone stopped it.

But yeah, just amazing stories of resilience in that family really gave me a lot of encouragement and a lot of the drive to get out of the mess that I was no doubt going to end up in if I hadn't, you know, fallen in love with the art. Found something like that. And what a great place to do it, too, because that family, those people, Benny, Blinky, Lili, all those people that were attached to them, too, that's a giant part of the history of kickboxing in America.

I mean, they were the elite of the elite. Benny was the baddest motherfucker ever during his time. Yes, he was. People don't realize you go back and watch those tapes of Benny Arquitas when he was young. Like it's kind of like lost on some people for some reason. It's phenomenal. Yeah, it's sad to watch how he dismantles people. There was a fight that I have one of his tapes. I have all his tapes. But one in particular that I really like, he'd gone to Thailand and he was fighting a guy.

He said, look, I'll come to your country, fight your rules, your champ, your ring, whatever. And he went there. And, you know, all I can compare it to is in Star Wars, where they have those guys with the big hat, you know, the big forehead, the klingons, whatever they are. Yeah. Since if Benny had kicked him across his forehead with a shin kick so many times that his whole entire forehead just had this contusion on it.

It looked like almost like a Darth Vader helmet, you know, after he'd had his head cut. And it was in a way, I guess, you know, maybe he was taunting him a little bit, you know, just slapping him around on TV, because it was in front of the whole nation had shown up there to watch this fight. But I guess he's had a lot of fights like that. I heard that the story about Frank Duke's was actually about since he been here, too. Did you ever hear about that one?

Well, the Frank Duke's thing was kind of a hoax, right? Like he had claimed to be a part of some kumate that was proven to not really happen. What was the exact story? Okay. So, because I know they tried to make it into Bloodsport, right? They did. Yeah. But it's not true. So, from what I know, this is what I know, what I was told. So, I don't know how accurate this is. But I heard from the people who participated in this whole thing.

So, what had happened was the movie with Sean Clark von Dump and Frank Duke's, I was told that Frank Duke's wasn't the guy who had actually been the fighter in that, and that it was Benny the J. You kid is. And that when he had come home or something, he had his school in the Los Angeles area, a semi-valley area, somewhere like that. And since, say, Rubin, Benny's older brother. And since, say, Arnold, his other brother, he had nine brothers and sisters. They were all black belts.

And his mother was a professional wrestler. And his dad was a professional boxer or vice versa. One was a boxer, one was a wrestler. What a terrible house to break into. Oh my God. You know, since he Benny used to tell me that when the kids would get in fights, the dad would say, go outside and fight barefoot in the stickers. And I thought, wow, that's, talk about getting tough and tough. Yeah, because he's to tell me he would get his teeth worked on without any no vacan.

And I was saying cleaning, right? No. Yeah. And so I couldn't do that. I drive past Dennis' office and I get freaked out. I know Benny participated in some kind of a mixed rules, kumate type situation. And I think, if I'm not mistaken, I think it was in Hawaii. See if you can find that out, Jamie. This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience is brought to you by Call of Duty. You know, when a new Call of Duty drops, everyone's trying to find a way to squeeze in those extra hours of gameplay.

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This event contract is offered by Robinhood derivatives, a registered futures commission birch in and swap firm. Exchange and regulatory fees apply. Learn more at robinhood dot com slash election. The story of the tips are when Arnold and Rubin, they had gone to Frank Duke's school. And this is what the family told me. They walked in, they locked the door. There was a student or two there. They told him you need to leave the students left. And they went in the back office of Frank's dough show.

Now this is what I heard. And I'm not saying this to draw Frank Duke's out of retirement or anything like that. You know, this is what I heard. Is that when Arnold and Rubin went in there, he freaked out and kind of lost control of himself. And they had words. And fortunately there were no fisticuffs, but that was the story. So when I watched it again, it was really neat to think that Jean-Claude von Dom was portraying since he banning instead of this other person.

So I'm confused about the story. So Benny and someone else went to visit Frank Duke's. Rubin and Arnold went there because it was Benny's story. Oh, I see. So Rubin and Arnold went there to confront Frank Duke's, because Frank Duke's had ripped off Benny's story. And this is Benny's story that was about the Cumetay that we... But it wasn't a real story. Did he really rip off the story? He kind of made something up, right? I'm not saying he ripped anything off.

What I'm saying is that's what I was told the story was that it wasn't Frank. It was Benny. I knew a dude who faked Cumetay. It's a crazy story. He told his friend to drive him to the woods. And he said, and I come back in a day, I'm fighting in like a secret karate tournament. So he goes off in the route and he brings a bag with him, right? Like a duffel bag. And then a guy comes back, a day later to pick him up, and no duffel bag. But now he's got a trophy, the same size as the bag. Oh, wow.

He said he won a karate tournament in the woods. Did he take the trophy out there? Three of back? Yes. What a dog. It's hilarious. People don't understand, I think, that before the UFC, before we got to watch mixed martial arts, meaning like an Aki-do guy, I could fight a judo guy or wrestler guy, I could fight a karate guy. Before we saw that, we didn't know what was the best art. We didn't know. And there was a lot of speculation, but very few mixed rules, engagements.

Like there was judo, Jean LeBel, fought a boxer once, and he made the boxer wear a gee. And he just took him to the ground, strung him on Ganges. Ali. Yes. There's Ali and a noke. They had that weird thing where a noke is on his back and he's kicking him in the legs. But there was very few of those. So you could have room for some person who pretends that they fought overseas. There's no internet back then. Some person who fought and beat the world and some sort of to the death tournament.

So there was a lot of those cokes out there. Yeah. So that story, I mean, that's not even really based on Frank Dukes' version of what he says happened. It's just kind of Hollywood corny, right? Yeah, that happens with a lot of those movies. Yeah. Obviously. But I think when it comes to reality though, like Ben Yerke does was he was a real important force in the early days of kickboxing. Yeah. Particularly in America.

One of my favorite martial art choreography things that he'd ever done was with Road House. Oh, he choreographed that? Yeah, I skydived with Patrick Swayze and I knew that he was Dalton in Road House. And there was a couple of moves at the very end, you know, when he was tacking that other guy, the bad guy. And he does this cross punch on the inside of his knees and blows out the guys' knees. And I thought, I just learned that last week, you know.

So it was really cool to see this stuff applied in this almost, you know, like fight to the death, kumate. Yeah. So I mean, I don't know how many people know what kumate means. Yeah, so for people that don't know what that means, it's a death match. So I know there's going to be some people at there that aren't going to know exactly what that means. I think the word just means sparring. Yeah, it just means fighting. The red sash. Oh, God, what is that called?

What is the word when they go two guys go when comes back? That's a death match. Do they have those or have they had those? I'm sure people have had though. Yeah, of course. Over the course of history, people have decided to to karate fight to the death. Absolutely. Yeah, but I think the word kumate doesn't mean that though. I think it just means fighting. Yeah, right? Well, that's what I was asking you. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it does. You know, that's a Japanese word.

I came from a Korean martial art background originally. I don't know that much about it. Kumate, martial arts freestyle fighting. So sparring. Literally sparring. Okay. I don't know what to say. Is there a Japanese term for karate death match? I'd heard that. That'd be a good name for a band. Karate death match. What did you start martial arts? I was 12. Wow. I was 12. So you have a black belt in karate, right? You have a black belt in what else? In Taekwondo. In Taekwondo.

And you have a purple belt in Jujutsu. That's a very impressive resume. That's really amazing. Yeah. I've managed to be really smart and stay out of a lot of trouble too. And that was one of the things that Sensei Many told me when we first started working together was, you know, guys coming down the street and it doesn't look like he's your friend, change sides of the street. If he changes sides of the street, turn around. You know, I don't go looking for trouble anymore.

There was a period in my life where, you know, that kind of people, those kind of people. And that kind of stuff was, you know, go out, get drunk, cause some problems. We lived down in Huntington Beach, you know, all the surf kids who got out there and fight people from another neighborhood or another school or something stupid like that. But a lot of tough guys came from Huntington Beach. That's where Tank Abbott came from. That's where Tito or T's came from Huntington Beach. A lot of guys.

There was a guy there when I went to high school there named Polo. He was one of a bunch of Samoans that were down there. And I remember I've said a Kager party one night and some guy hit him right in the face with the crowbar and he did not move. And I thought, oh my God, it was one of those hexagonal crowbars, you know. Oh Jesus. It wasn't like a tire iron where you just turned the knobs and you just whacked him and I thought, somebody's gonna die. Jesus Christ.

Yeah, some people could take inhumane punishment. It's a superhuman. Like I've seen Mark Hunt in the early days, like Crocop kicked him in the head. Crocop kicks people that just go unconscious. Crocop kicked him in the head and just sort of fell down, got right back up. And everybody was like, how? Hey, did you have any guiding Mark Carr? Mark Carr. He used to call him the specimen. Mark Carr. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he was in the early days of the UFC.

Yeah. I was at a couple of his fights. Definitely one where he tapped a guy by shoving his chin into his eye socket. Hey, he got on top of the guy and I think it was a Ron Waterman, Ron Waterman. So Mark Carr gets on top of him and he's like grabbing the back of his head and he shoves his chin into the guy's eye socket. Oh, yeah. And to do taps. I was like, that, that's effective. He's a big guy. That's you. I remember we hung out for a little while and he was stayed in my pad in Scottsdale.

Oh, really? Yeah, there was a time he was getting himself straightened out and you know, he knew that I had a history and got him. Was this after the smashing machine documentary? I think so. Did you ever say it? I heard of it. And I've seen some of it. It's wild. Yeah, it's wild. It's what they were trying to do. And like oftentimes in documentaries, like they'll start following someone with a very specific objective, but then the whole world changes.

Yeah. And this, that's this one is one of those. They were following him because he was this like unstoppable force that was fighting in pride that looked like a superhero. And this is the one which shows all the shooting. Exactly. And then during that time period they got to realize, oh my god, this guy's addicted to pain killers. Like hardcore. Like he's really falling apart. He falls apart during the filming of the documentary. Yeah. Yeah, a hellscape of addiction.

And they didn't intend to capture that. The intended just to capture him dominating what like he was, but he was a freak. That guy was so fucking big when you would see him pull up a picture of Mark Kerr in his prime. He was one of the most preposterous guy. And he was like a very, very, very, very, there he is. Look at that. I mean, it doesn't even look like a human. So, so let me tell you this thing. Mark, see that picture on the right? Let's look at that one right there. He's screaming.

Yeah. My wife came out one night. It was around Halloween he was staying with us. And she heard this noise in our kitchen. And there was this pantry. They had a bunch of shelves and all of the Halloween candy had been stuck up on the top shelf. So our kids wouldn't eat it. So she goes in the kitchen and she sees that guy inside of the pantry on the top shelf pulling down the candy. Because he wanted candy. That's hilarious. I don't know that I wouldn't have looked at the size of him. Candy!

He was so fucking big and so fast too. He was a good guy. I hope I'm still alive. I don't know what's going on with him. But I had heard he cleaned himself up. That's good. I think was selling cars for a while. That's good. But by this or else. Yeah. He was, he looks different. You know, he lost all that muscle mass. He's a much more normal looking big guy now. He was a big guy. Yeah. That's for sure. So how do we get on the subject of Marker? Just talking.

Yeah. Just trying to remember I had a point. But he's, um, that early, those early years, like everyone was trying to figure out like what to do. It was interesting to see like the wrestlers come in and just start smashing people. And then kickboxers started coming in and kicking the wrestlers legs. And then other people started figuring out how to tap people better and no gui. It's like it's a wild sort of a journey from the early days of martial arts to where we are today.

I don't think there's any development of it all. We'll give this. Is that a city? Oh, this is Benny the jet. No rules concept with the greatest fighters on earth. Karate meets Kung Fu. Oh, wow. So this is May 16th. What in the LA sports arena? What year was it? 1975. It's the third event. The World Series of martial arts put on, I think. Winner takes all masters from Hawaii, Japan, the South Pacific, Thailand and the US in full contact. Going for the knockout. Wow. Seven bucks for tickets.

Twelve bucks for ringside. Wow, man. Imagine a time machine going back to watch that. That would be pretty interesting. I watched one of his fights. The very last one. And I was such a bad spectator. I was yelling because the guy that he was fighting, I can't remember his name, Tanaka. I think or something like that. You know, there were certain rules for that. And, you know, they put his head under the towel in the corner and I heard that that was not legal. And they were what?

What were they doing? Well, somebody said something to me that the guy had his head under the towel and that they were doing something with him in the corner during the fight. I don't know exactly what. Was this a fight with takedowns or did he just clinch? No. I was just what we're looking at right here. Who is this, Benny versus Bill Henderson? Bill Henderson. And this is what, what year was this? This is from that fight that I just had the advertisement for. Oh, really? This is the...

The LA 1975. So he took him down there so that was legal in this fight. So this isn't just a kid. And there were in those karate gloves. Oh, shit. It's really unfortunate that more people in America didn't get to see a Benny fight when that whole PKA karate thing was going on. Yeah. You know, because like people got to see a lot of fights where it was really just kind of like sloppy boxing with occasional kicks. And occasionally they'd have a guy who was like really good.

That was like a full, like Jerry Trimble. Remember that guy? No. He's bad motherfucker. There were 360 roundhouse kicks, wheel kicks and everything like that. And he... And then of course Rick Rufus. And Rick Rufus was like the big American star. Who could fight, you know, that style and knock a lot of people out with kicks. And Rick Rufus was in his prime. He was phenomenal.

And he was like probably the best of the Americans in terms of like the representation of like a full spectrum of martial arts techniques. He could... he fought Thai fights. He later learned how to fight with leg kicks. There's like one of the most famous kickboxing matches ever was his first fight against a Thai. Because he didn't know how to fight with leg kicks. And so he was fighting with the long pants on. He gets his legs kicked out.

And that like led to this big evolution between him and his brother Duke, where they really figured out like, oh, this is the right way. You have to use leg kicks. Like leg kicks are a giant part of martial arts. The karate people and the Thai... When no people didn't get, like the Thai's figured that out. Born with an anybody. And the karate people had some of it that they used and kilkashen and some other. But it wasn't in terms of like it's expression and kickboxing.

Nobody had figured out how to do it like the Thai's. When you first started training, you said you were 12 years old. And what was the original martial art? It was Sean Reue. And my brother and I was the chief of police in Stanton, California. And my dad and my mom got divorced when I was four. So consequently I grew up with male role models, serigate parenting and stuff like that. And right across the street from the police center was a YMCA that was having free karate lessons.

And so I went and that started it all. And almost 61. That's almost 50 years. But it hasn't been consistent all the time because moving out to Arizona when I left Sensei Bani, it was really hard to find someone else to train with because you get spoiled. And the whole MMA thing had to hit. Right. Now that it's hit, there's places to train all over the country. Yeah. Do you still watch the UFC? I do sometimes when I have the time.

I love watching matches if I get the time, especially now that, you know, going from practicing karate mainly to, you know, doing grappling and ground fighting stuff. That was part of the Yukito Konstyle was there was a little bit of Jiu-Jitsu in it. But nothing like the extent that I've been studying now. And you've been doing it now for how many years, Jiu-Jitsu? I think maybe three, four years. That's awesome. I love when people just pick stuff up new.

Yeah. You know, it's like it's such an important part of life. And it's so rewarding to learn some new thing, to get into some new thing. Especially some new thing like Jiu-Jitsu that's actually like physically good for you. Yeah. The other thing too is over the years having the discipline with the arts. I'm not chasing my children. I want to, you know, when you asked me how long it was, I actually had to say for how long it's been. Because it's a way of life for me and the rent comes.

And you just show up and be a good student. What was the first year you picked up a guitar? It was 13. Oh, so right around the same time you first started doing martial arts. Yeah. And what like back then, what was the music that you were into? Like what did you listen to? When I was 13 I had a very limited musical library. My sisters listened to a lot of Motown.

My brother-in-law listened to a lot of the pop stuff that was in America at the time, Frankie Valley and you know, Paul Revere and the Raiders and stuff. This is what I'm just a little kid. You know, Gary Puck and the Union gap and you know, all those old bands. And it wasn't until my youngest sister who's a little bit older than me started dating. That I got exposed to a little bit harder music. And that started with a little bit of deep purple.

And then Mata Hoopal and a little bit of some David Bowie. And then we discovered KISS and Ted Nugent. Yeah. The other one was KISS Ted Nugent, who was the other band back then. Let's open those three. Yeah. That made all the difference in the world for me with the guitar. And so when you first started getting into the guitar, were you taking lessons or were you trying to learn on your own? I'm self taught. So I tried to do the lesson thing. I even tried it again a few years ago.

And the guy that was trying to explain it to me, he made it more confusing for me than going into it. So I mean, for some people lessons or I think for most people lessons are important. But if you've already figured out how to do it, don't unfigure it. Yeah, right? I would imagine applying a system, the system of notes to something that you've intuitively picked up. Like, did you just figure out what sounds it makes while you're moving your fingers in different positions?

And then you mimic the sounds you heard in albums. How does one learn how to teach themselves? How to play the guitar? I started with an acoustic and was plunking around a little bit on that. I started to play piano and Joe, she was so awful. I mean, the music coming out of our apartment sounded like two cats having sex. And all I know is that there was an acoustic guitar there and I thought I need to make some noise to drown out what she's doing. So that started it. And she liked cat Stevens.

We had a music book of the anthology for the Beatles, which was another huge band for me with my songwriting because of the weird court structures. And I think it was a great idea to have a moving bass note that the court will stay the same and the bass will move or vice versa. The bass will stay the same and the court will move. So not a lot of movement happens, but it seems like a lot's going on in the songs.

And then besides Elton John Bowie was cat Stevens, I don't know if I said that or not, but he was a huge pop success back in the day. Yeah. Part of that whole hippie movement. And he actually went back to Afghanistan and changed his name back to Yusuf Islam, I think. Yeah. And he had a beautiful voice. That's one thing for sure. I think he tours now, but I'm not sure if he tours as cat Stevens or Yusuf Islam. I feel like he was not in America, though. Does he tour in America?

I think there was like an issue with the Salman Rushdie comments. I think there was something going on when you remember when Salman Rushdie, when they before you got attacked recently, like when they first instituted a fatwa on him, I think he supported it or something. There was like some real issue. He supported the fatwa or the Chronicles? Yeah. Yeah, which was I'm pretty sure. Go that. I don't want to add it better. No upcoming events. Did he support the fatwa on Salman Rushdie? I'm not.

I'm pretty sure I'm not making Chronicles or something. Yeah, the satanic verses. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess people interpreted it as being about Muhammad. Yeah. He did? What did he say? I just said endorse the made statements endorsing it. Yeah. The statements generally could, you know. Which is crazy to say. If a guy is a hippie from cat in the cradle in the silhouette. Yeah. Peace trained. No, that's wrong somebody else. Oh, who's that? He's the peace trained guy. Yeah, that's right.

Peace trained. What else do you do? Yeah. Is he for the Tillamon steak for the sun? That's maybe what you think. So he's got a great voice. It's like very soothing and loving. Maybe my support's killing someone Rushdie for a head voice. Die, die, die. I think when people say they support killing, they don't think they really understand what they're saying sometimes. I think they're saying it.

But if you were there while it was happening while the guy was getting killed, you would be fucking horrified. Yeah. Like what you are saying is that horrific violence is justified for someone writing something down. Yeah. That's crazy talk. Yeah, that's crazy. Unless you don't know what horrific violence is, you're talking about it like at some ethereal, non-existing, non-real thing because you haven't experienced it in real life.

Well, maybe he did experience a lot of it in the peace movement in the 60s and 70s because I think he probably got sick with the Americans. And going back to Afghanistan and changing your name, and probably we had something that spurred that on. Probably it was just a knee-jerk reaction. And I know that the music business is way different than it is now. It's so different. I don't know if those two things are related, but yeah, I'm sure the peace movement, it probably saw a lot of wild shit.

Well, he's a musician, right? And the music business is what you survive in. For example, Elvis, the way that he's life ended and the way that the music business was in respect. And it was, you know, throw drugs at the problem, throw sex and money at the problem. And I don't know that he had modern management, or even if he was with somebody who, you know, like a handler, you know, that would say, hey, it's probably not a good idea for you to say that.

You know, nowadays we have people who are, their sole jobs are to help keep us from, you know, stepping on it, you know. Right. And I've got people around me. They used to be real busy with me, but, you know, fortunately growing up, I've learned a lot of stuff that, you know, you can't, can't say, so. Well, specifically, I mean, in this day and age with social media, it's so easy for someone to just tweet something really ridiculous without someone saying, hey, don't fucking say that.

You're on Adderall. Sit down. Don't write that down. Don't say that. You know, it's just back then, do you think that the drug and alcohol thing, you know, is the same today in music? Or do you think it's less? Do you think it's just not promoted by the, I mean, what do you think the differences between the influence of drugs and alcohol in the early days versus now? Robinhood is introducing forecast contracts. So you can trade the presidential election through Robinhood.

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Well, I think I think in the early days in the music business, first off the drugs were a lot of strong and they didn't have, for example, something as simple as the marijuana that I used to smoke when I was a kid versus what's being manufactured and grown out is, is quite different. I think that the stigmatism for people about smoking is less.

I think that there's a lot of other things that people use out on the road to cope with things that could be dealt with with good management, good support system. And most importantly, having somebody who's going to tell you the truth, I'm a grown up, I'm a big boy. So, when I have stuff happen in my career and it could have been avoided or somebody didn't tell me and I find out later, that sucks.

And for a lot of people when that stuff happens, they respond in a negative way with either self sabotage or they medicate themselves. And I remember back when I was drinking, there was a thing someone said at one of those meetings and I thought it was kind of clever. The guy said, I drank with my team one and I drank with my team lost and I drank with my team played and I drank with my team was in the off season and I thought, all right, that's about me.

But team will be not rooting for anymore, so. But there's so many reasons why people make it or don't make it in the music business. And I think much like yourself, you know, in our getting to know each other earlier this afternoon, you have to take care of yourself. You really, really do. And there's so many things in the music industry that the history, the people that you're working with, a lot of people don't want to say anything bad about somebody.

I mean, imagine how much better things would be if somebody really said, you know, what he's a nice guy, but he stole from us. Or, you know, this guy is, he's good at this, but he's terrible at that. You know, everybody's so afraid to offend anybody with stuff like that, but yet, you know, in other areas of life, offending people doesn't mean shit. You know, so we've had, sometimes we've had some people on our crew and tours that we've been on.

And the last tour we were on, not my band, put another band, their bus drove right up to the Canadian border and the driver got out and left them all sitting there. So yeah, it's the music business. Why did he do that? Because he had a DUI or something like that and you can get up in a canada. Oh my God. That's hilarious. So convoluted all this stuff.

But see, like back in the day, you know, back in the 60s or 70s, what I was talking about, you know, different areas, different messes, different managers, you know, managers used to manage the mess. They don't manage the mess anymore. They don't want to tolerate that shit because there's always somebody around the corner that's ready to work harder than you. It's like that motivational thing that Arnold said a long time.

Somebody's out there getting stronger, running farther, you know, all that stuff. I love those motivational tapes. Yeah. Well, someone is out there doing it. And if you do fuck up and you want to just take Xanax all day and do Coke and you don't write new music, someone's going to come along. They are. And I'm not going to be a part of that. But it's not a part of the whole rock and roll mystique. The part of the whole mystique was the guy who did crazy drugs.

It was kind of half out of it, but go on stage and be brilliant. Sometimes, you know, that's the key. And Keith Moon, you know, that's that worked for Keith. But I think that's, you know, player like Keith is so all over the place. You know, he doesn't have a song with a pattern. So he's just go out there and just hit everything. I know of a lot of musicians that will drink when they play. I know a lot that don't. I don't know very many anymore that do drugs.

That's just something that's been kind of phased out. Yeah, just because of the impact that has on your body. Well, not only that, but the things that it makes the people do and the kind of people that are around that. I think that, you know, like, again, like I was saying, herb is less of a stigmatism. So people are a little bit more open with that.

But as far as I come in backstage and it's smelling like, you know, somebody's back there burning chemicals or something like that or, you know, people falling out in the hallway from heroin or, you know, tweaking around on meth or coacostum. You know, we try and associate with people that are like-minded with us, you know, the people that are about their careers and that really are into taking care of themselves.

Two of the guys in five finger death punch dude, GG, they have a sense of how we're with them. We all are doing GG. So when we were out with Trivian, the singer for that band does GG. So we try and hang out with bands that are really health centric, you know, that are really looking into and not just from here down, but here up to. When you were a kid and you first were hearing about bands and getting into bands, was that

always a narrative? Was that something that was discussed a lot that like a lot of bands did drugs? I don't think it was because it, you know, it wasn't something we were preoccupied with. We were at the time when I first started playing around by myself with other little small time outfits and stuff like that. And it never was really drugs per se. It would be like maybe get a six pack of air and, you know, maybe smoke a joint or something.

But it wasn't until Megadeth actually got going and we met Gar and some of the people in that circle where we started to experiment with other stuff. And we had a manager at the time who was very, very bad off. And he would try to always keep us loaded. And we ended up having a fire at the guy because it was for our own health and our own safety. I mean, you know, if I was a cheap bastard and didn't have any money, I would say this is great. You got it for free.

But, you know, the thing was, is, you know, the guy was keeping several members of the band sick. Yeah, there's guys that do that. There are guys that do that. There's guys that little do that just to sort of corral you and keep control of you. I've seen managers do that. What about Brian Wilson's story? It was a great story too. What happened with Brian Wilson? The movie that he had about the doctor that he had, he had some psychiatrist that kept him all whacked out.

I watched the movie, Paul Gargana, and so whatever his name is, the one guy from Billions was the doctor. And I can't remember who played Brian Wilson, but it was a great movie. What is it called? It was the Brian Wilson story. I guess I don't know. I haven't seen that one yet. But John Kusek played it. And I know John Kusek's practitioner too. He trained over with Sensei Beni at the Jets Center too. Yeah, I remember he used him in one of his movies. There it is, Love and Mercy.

That's it. GMMity. Paul GMMity. Oh yeah, the guy from the Howard Stern movie too. That guy's awesome. Yeah, that whole thing with the psychiatrist or doctors or whether it's a manager or someone that you have that can get you drugs and that keeps you on them. That's a long standing story. That's been going on a long time. Especially with really talented people, a lot of times that person, they can benefit financially from controlling that.

So they get a hold of, they go, look, I'm just going to babysit you, keep you on drugs, and then suck money out of you. And then there's a lot of those guys that wind up keeping these incompetent managers for years longer than they should because the guy gets some drugs too. Because the guy gets them girls, he gets some drugs, he sets up parties, he does all the stuff that doesn't help the band, it doesn't help their music. But it helps keep him around. And a picture. Yeah. Those guys are real.

I've met those guys in comedy too. They exist. They exist. And it's always been a long-standing story in comedy, with Sam Kinnison was in the Coke and Richard Pryor famously had a problem. But you only hear about those kind of people when they make the news, when something happens. I was always wondering, back in New York, when you first started, was that a trope? Was that something that was discussed a lot with rock stars? Tented not the drugs. The drugs. No, the drugs, the drug thing.

Because it seems like so many guys from your era were doing drugs. Yeah, they were. Well, let's give you a scenario. When we got signed to Capital, we went up into the tower. We went into one of the little rooms there in the guy's slid his desk open and there were lines everywhere. So yeah, they gave us a box of Nike shoes and all the blue you could eat. Wow. That's crazy. Yeah. When I was a kid and I worked at a comedy club, they offered me Coke or money or a combination of both.

You get paid in cash or Coke. Oh, this is crazy. I heard about a band with a front man that I really respected that wanted to be paid in and crack and I just thought, you know what, I've lost all respect for you now. Well, maybe Newke could get it at a good price and sell it on the road. Yeah, you know. Tired to get good crack.

Yeah, there's a lot of people that get like really lost on drugs, but that's why I'm always happy to speak with a person like yourself that's, you know, had your problems and put them aside and bounce back and, you know, got healthy and is open about it. You know, I think that's, it's so important for guys to hear. And it's also got, he's, that it's a trap too. You can get, you can get sucked up into that trap. You can be a good person, a solid person who's, you know, got confidence.

You can get accomplished things. You can get still sucked in that trap. Yeah, you can, you can. Because it's, it's like people call it the big lie for a reason. Yeah. The big lie. They call the tour books the big lie too. So speaking of touring. The tour books?

Yeah, when you're out on tour, you know, you get these, these, these, uh, tenderaries and, and, um, I don't know when you travel if you, uh, go for long stints at a time or not or if, if, uh, do you have to see when they travel if they, uh, go for long stints at a time, but when we go, we usually have, uh, an itinerary, which is our, our little book and we call it the book of lies because all the information when the tour starts is all accurate.

But by the time you get out and, uh, to that first date stuff starts changing, I'll see you call that the big lie. Yeah. What was the longest time you've ever been on tour for 72 weeks? Oh my God. Yeah. That out of feel so bizarre when you came off the road after that much time. Yeah. It was back in the day when Ben said quarter slots on him too. We, we were, uh, sitting in these cheap hotels and watching WGN all day long.

I sure learned a lot about the Atlanta Braves during that period, but, uh, yeah, it was rough. Quarter slots mean you put a quarter into pay for the television? No, the bed would vibrate. Oh. Okay. That's like, um, back on past. Boy, I do remember that now that you bring it up. I don't think I ever experienced it personally, but I think I saw it in movies or something. Hmm. Maybe one time when I was a kid, they had that.

I don't know when they got rid of that, but that was the most bizarre thing. Yeah. You've been, we stated all those nice, fine establishments. Is that supposed to enhance sex? You put a quarter in and you've been vibrating sex with the bed, I guess. Yeah. I don't understand why that would be a net benefit to have a vibrating bed, but people would pay for it. I think everybody forgot about vibrating beds. You might have just revived an industry. There you go. Because I completely forgot.

There it is, magic fingers relaxation, service for your comfort. This bed is equipped with the same, the same magic fingers. Why does it say the same? That doesn't make any sense. Maybe it was, well, it was, it looks like the copyright it sounds like, uh, maybe people were trying to steal there. But why was it say, what, what a, who, that's why it's out of business. They, they're terrible at marketing.

For your comfort, this bed is equipped with the same, the same magic fingers relaxation service. I think it's supposed to go all together. Right, but what, that's terrible. Like shitty font, everything sucks. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a whole sentence, but they put an image in the new ball and seven grand a month off of a bed. What? They can make seven grand a month just off each bed. You just got to put a vibrator in the pillows. Oh my God. How ridiculous.

Yeah. So, hotels, all that jazz and then coming back home after 72 weeks, I would just say 72 weeks in the road. How long were you home for? I, let's see. We went right in after that and did peace cells, but who's buying and, um, I think that record took a couple of months to make. We weren't home for long. We weren't home for long. Whew. That's a hard life. Yeah. We ended up beginning.

It was a lot of traveling and since I was homeless, you know, having a hotel to live in and a venue basically to live in. That was good for us. You know, David Ellison didn't have to go home ever because he had his family to fall back on. I had no home to go to, so I had to make it last. And so, to a degree, being in on tour in the venues in the hotel rooms, it was, it was to step up for me from being in a van.

Yeah, I guess that's a, it's still how to be kind of, I mean, for every musician, the dream is to record and to make a living touring and to have fans. So when you started having that, I would imagine you would want to ride that as quickly and as long as possible. Like, if I was in a band, I would imagine I would want a tour for 72 weeks in a row, too. It's happening for you. What was that like when, I mean, you were successful pretty early. You were born in your life.

Like, how old were you when you were in your first band? Panic was the band before Metallica. And that was only for a short period of time. And I was 20 when I was in Metallica. So I probably started when I was around maybe 17, 18. But just think of that, just that statement. I was 20 when I was in Metallica. I mean, that, yeah, fuck you all. That is crazy. I was 20 when I was in Metallica. That is a crazy statement.

Because if you just think about the average 20-year-olds life and that and that, and that this is, look at the kids, you guys, little babies. Yeah. So cute. That's amazing. Is that freak out when you look at that? No, it doesn't. Panic brings me a little bit of some sadness because of the way it went down with you guys. Oh, I don't care about that. It's just cliff. Oh, yeah. When you left Metallica and then when, did you go right into Megadeth or did you do right after Metallica?

I think in my mind, I went right into Megadeth, but at the time I was still kind of trying to digest everything that took place. We were still only 20. Yeah. And the bother me the most was I had all my music and I left it behind and I said, don't use my music. And of course they did. Oh, really? Yeah. They used it on the first record, on the second record.

There's parts of my music on a song, on the third record, all the solos on the first record or mine, except that they're just performed by Kirk. And close, but not the same. He's not a bag of tar player. Did you get royalties for that? Well, most of them, yeah. But Kirk got my royalties for Metal Militia for many, many years. And he has to see the check. So I know somebody saw that I wasn't getting paid. So there's a sadness and bitterness. Not bitterness, and I come up over. A little upset.

It's just money. Like he said, at the end of the day, my happiness and my family, my wife and my children are more important to me than anything in this world. And I love our fans. I have so many things in this life that I'm happy about, but it's my family. And obviously, my relationship with God, I take that very, very personal. And I don't talk to people about it. I don't push it on them at all. It's my thing. And I just look at it like where I'm at right now. Yeah, 20 in Metallica.

And now look at me on 60 in Magdass. And I'm a Grammy winner, I'm a New York Times best selling author. All these things that if, you know, I was signing autographs the other day, Joe. And I had these boxes. There was 3,000 jackets I had to sign. And for a moment, I flashed back to elementary school when I was in front of the chalkboard. I swore to God and I had to write, did you ever have to do that?

Yeah, sure. God. And I don't know what brought that up, but I thought, oh my God, I can't even believe that. And I was thinking about where I'm at now today. And you just have the slightest deviation from where I was going could have ended me up anywhere else in the world. Because I wanted to do so many things. I wanted to be a professional athlete. I wanted to play baseball. I thought about, I had a cousin who was a fighter pilot. And I thought that would be really great too.

But, you know, Dave, I think that's the case with a lot of people that wind up becoming successful at things. They could have gone in a bunch of different directions. They just chose to go in this one, but they still have other interesting things. Because I think the type of people that become really successful, like with you at playing guitar, is there are the type of people that can kind of be good at anything. They just have to love that thing.

Like I'm sure you love playing guitar, which is why you're so good at playing guitar. If you loved something else as much as you love that, you'd be just as good at that. I think it's an expression of who you are as a person. I think that's one of the more unique things about guitar playing to me. We were talking outside earlier about Gary Clark Jr. About like, if I listen to Gary Clark Jr.'s riffs, I can tell it's him. Like his sound is so distinctive.

He's playing with the same instrument that other people play with, but his sound is so uniquely distinctive that I could pick it out. And that was the case with Hendrix. And that's the case with you. It's the case with a lot of great guitarists. Like you hear the sound and you know who's playing it, which is really crazy. If you think about this instrument that basically anybody can buy, you can get them in so many different places.

So many people know how to play them, but some people specifically who they are comes out in their music. And as a fan of music, that's one of the cooler things about guitar playing to me, or any kind of music playing, is that like, there's like an expression of who the person is who creates it that comes out when you listen to it. And you're a big Hendrix fan. I love Hendrix.

I don't know if you knew this, a couple years ago, before I got diagnosed, I had the privilege to do the Jimmy Hendrix experience. And the family did this thing where they go out and they have all these marquee players and they do Hendrix songs. Oh, wow. They asked me to go do that. I thought, you know, I mean, I was not influenced by Hendrix at all, but I loved him as a musician and I respect his work. So yeah, I'll do it.

And of course, I'm playing a flying V and he had a flying V. So I had to flying V's painted like his, which was really cool. I have two of them still. I have one with the Wang Barn, one without. I'm probably going to get rid of him some point, but just haven't got around to it yet. But we did three songs. I think it was three songs we did. And he's a stretch. So the sound difference between a flying V and a stretch is very significant. And for me to try and work that out.

I was having a hard time and I want to just say this to share how cool these guys were. Dewey's old Zappa, I don't know if you know him. I didn't know him very well. Eric Johnson is another guy. I don't know very well, but I came out one day and the two of those guys were sitting there working on my amps. And I thought, wow, this is so rad because Eric is an amazing guitar player and Dewey's little snow-slouch on his own. His dad Frank Zappa was an amazing guitar player too.

And they were sitting there working on my guitar sounds because they've been doing this Hendrix thing for so long. They know how to make the instrument sound right. And they did it. I played it. It felt awful because it wasn't what I was used to, but it sounded great. And I was so grateful to those guys who are doing that. It was really neat. Being around the whole Hendrix family, listening to those songs too. It's mind blowing how much he influenced musicians. Today.

I mean, if he was alive today, be one of the greatest guitarists alive. Not just one of the greatest ever, like even though things look at this right here. That's his psychedelic V. Wow. There was a bunch of photos that were released that someone sent me today. I don't know when they came out, but it's Jimmy Hendrix in Ringo Starr's apartment. So you can find those.

So someone sent me like, there's like ten of them that I had never seen before of Jimmy wearing this cool blue suit hanging out in Ringo Starr's London apartments, smoking cigarettes. It's like he's cooking. Look, he's on the kitchen stove. Very interesting. Wow pictures. And you think that guy was only 27 when he died, which is amazing. If you go back and listen to some of his stuff, listen to machine gun, listen to voodoo child, listen to all along the watch tower. Yeah, there's the photos.

That's it. See, that was different. Look at that cool suit, man. It would go and hang out and there was no, there was no posse's and there was no, you know, shootings and stuff like that. And everybody's they'd love to be around each other. That says the time Ringo Starr evicted Jimmy Hendrix for being a shitty tenant in 1967. Look at that's wild. That might be clickbait, whether you've evicted him for being a shitty tenant who knows. That doesn't look bad. That's so cool. It is sweet.

It is sweet. I can see my apartment growing up. Well, his suit is amazing. I mean, you should never have a blue velvet suit. I mean, come the fuck on. No, it takes a lot of balls to wear a suit like that. I may have when my mom was forcing me to be a Jehovah's Witness though. Who knows? I could have put a velvet everything. What year did that happen? Oh, God. I am. I'm seven. Seven. Yeah. So do you remember a time before the Jehovah's Witness? Do you remember having a join barely?

My mom and dad got divorced when I was four. Like I said, so there was a lot of disruption. My friend Kurt Metzger, who's a fantastic comedian, he was raised Jehovah's Witness. And he has some crazy fucking stories about it. And he managed to escape. And one of the things he said that it's helped him with is like, he sees cult-like thinking in political ideologies. He sees it in social movements. He's like, oh, you're not a lot of question-ness. No, I grew up with this.

I know what the fuck this is. This is a cult. You just don't think it's a cult because you think you're out to do good. And so you're not allowing any discourse or any discussion. You're in a fucking cult. You don't know when you're in a cult, but you're in a cult. It's interesting to hear it from guys like that it's like people who come from communist countries that become very conservative when they come to America. Like they don't want to hear any Marxism talk. Shut the fuck up.

Like we grew up in a communist country. Get the fuck out of here with that. It's like that's how he is with what happened to him growing up as a Jehovah's Witness. It's a weird religion. What was weird about it? When did you realize that things were weird? I mean, you're seven years old. That's probably the only life you know. It wasn't that it was very far away from any other kind of religion. They believe in God and Jesus. And it was just the order of things.

And the thing that I didn't like was, you know, I'm a kid. I want to watch fucking cartoons on the weekend. I don't want to go out and sell these magazines. You know, and you're going knock on the door Saturday or Sunday morning. Hi, I've got this magazine. Fuck you. We could guys hung over, slams the door in your face, you know. And that just was, I don't think a cool way to have my childhood. I wanted to watch Wonderama. It definitely sucks.

Do you think that any part of having a sucky childhood is responsible for like the amount of energy that you had that put into music that like I think sometimes when kids grow up in a sucky way, those are the kids like with athletics. That's off in the case. It's off in the case with comedy. When kids grow up in a sucky way with a lot of bad experiences, those are the ones who wind up like pushing harder to do great things and other stuff. I think it's the wolf nipping at your heels.

There's something there that just wants to keep you not looking back. Right. You don't feel stable ever. You're stuck in this shitty place that you want to get out of as a young kid. There's so many great artists. That's how they grew up. They grew up in like this place where childhood sucked like assholes around you and you want to get the fuck out of there. That's such a recurring theme in people who become great artists. Yeah, there's a lot of that.

Yeah. It's always interesting when you look back though, right? Like being a person now who's gone through all that and you went from that and all the drugs and then into, was it alcoholics anonymous that where you became a Christian? Did you do it from getting sober or were you a Christian before that? No, well you, again, Jehovah's Witnesses are a form of Christianity. Right. It's kind of recognized as sort of a cultish. Yeah, well, here's the thing. Real simple. I believe in Jesus.

I believe that God's God and Jesus is Jesus and the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit and that's it. And if you want to go to church, go to church. And if you want to read the Bible, read the Bible. And if you don't want to hear about it, don't listen. And if you don't want people to tell you about it, then tell them to shut up. For me, I try and set a good example with my behavior. I don't ever try and fossilize or whatever they call it. Prostletize. Prostletize, yeah.

Or even same thing with, you know, drinking or anything like that. You know, there's some saying there's nothing worse than a newly sober drunk. You know, so I try not to tell people how to live their life. But one of the things I didn't like about that was they had this thing when they didn't agree with something. The elders of the church would gather together and they would talk about the person in question and they would disfellowship them or a lesser degree would be to associate.

And what does disfellowship, what does that mean? You are ostracized. Ostracized. You still have to go to church. You still have to show up. You still have to do all of the. No one talks to you in the world they cannot. Yeah. They're not supposed to. They're not supposed to. My sister got disfellowship and the girl that brought the accusations against my sister had lied.

She had said something about my sister and this other dude being together and I knew that it wasn't true because my sister liked the other brother. So she got disfellowship and that was pretty much when I started to want to get away from it all because you know, I wasn't really old enough to see any other inner workings of organized religion or stuff like that. But there's a lot of ex-wats they sat on that. How long does a disfellowship last? Who knows? They could just decide. I guess.

And so it was sins. You'd have to do a sin. Was that what it is to get a transgression? Something that was unacceptable in their eyes. And then you got defellowship. She did. Or that's, I mean, a person would get defellowship. And so what was wacky about it in relationship to like standard Christianity? Okay. I didn't have any friends that were normal guys like you and me, we couldn't be friends because I would have been a witness and you would have been of the world.

I think they changed that now to like non-believers or something. They used to call them worldly people, right? And so you have to hang out with only Jehovah's Witnesses. Yes. And when you stood up at school, which back when I went to school, you know, we were a very patriotic country and kids would stand up and say to pledge allegiance and, you know, do whatever. But we could not. We were supposed to stand with their hands at our sides. And you did not get to celebrate Christmas.

You did not get to celebrate birthdays. And that's enough right there to get just about any kid in their right mind to say, screw this. You take away my birthday, you take away Christmas, you take away all celebrations. And if I do something wrong in your eyes, I'm set outside of the fence. I don't want to be part of this. So those are control issues, but there was, was there anything wacky in their belief system that separated them from Christianity?

Like I'm not really totally aware of what Jehovah's Witnesses are into. Right. Well, again, they believe similar to what most Christians do. I never really got into wanting to be part of that religion. So when did you bail? 13. 13. So right when you start playing music, perfect time. What a quick life right into some wild ass music though, to just have a life like that. And then bam, at 20, you're one of the founding members of Metallica. That's crazy.

So it's a, and then 40 years later, still banging. It's pretty amazing. Yeah, thanks. It's amazing. Thanks. So went, but when did you get out of the Jehovah's Witness and into what we would call what denomination are you? Okay. So, so I had to do like any normal guy would do. And you get out of one thing that sucks. You do something else to extreme. So when I bailed on the JW thing with my mom, I ran away from home up to Idaho where my sister lived and she was practicing black magic.

So I got into black magic and I like she did not practice black. She was doing white, white magic. But I had practiced in black magic on two people. And what does that mean? Well, I don't want to get into it, but what the whole thing is, but you, as simply said, you have somebody that you don't like and the power of suggesting in your mind, you could say or do something and then hope and pray that something will take place. That will even the score, so to speak, you know.

Do I believe that if I prayed for your shirt to be white right now that it would happen? If, you know, the powers that be, you know, the spirits of the universe want things to change, I could be struck blind right now by a white light. And every turn, my shirt white, I think that'd be a waste of a curse. Sorry, not a bad curse. Well, so the curse is I did. I did one-on-one guy that I was at school and my nephew had told him that I was practicing Kung Fu senseu at the time.

And so he was like the school tough guy. And I, it was my first day at school. So he walked past me and sucker punched me in the stomach and I buckled over and I thought, oh, right, here we go. This is going to suck this school. So we're going home and the bus is a two bus ride, a big bus to a small drop off, a little bus out to where we lived out in the rural area. And we get off the first bus and everybody circles around and he's going to beat me up and nothing happens.

And so I get in the bus and he gets in the bus and he walks out and elbows me in the back of the head when he's getting out. And I had some chute to back in my mouth so I swallowed it and I got so sick and I knew I had to do something or it was going to keep happening. So I put a hex on him that he would get physically injured and he did. And the other hex that I did was the girl in night school, we went to a marina. How did he get physically injured?

I, it was just something they had to do with. But do you think, they see sounds like an asshole? The guys like that could hurt all the time. He did get hurt. Yeah. Do you think that he got hurt because you put a hex on him or do you think he got hurt because he's an asshole and he's probably doing stupid shit every day. Guys like that always get hurt. I think he got hurt because he's an asshole and I put a hex on him. Both. Both those things. Yeah. What's that like, how do you do a hex?

The whole reason I wouldn't play contraing anymore was because he has the instructions on how to do it. So I don't want anybody to learn how to do this. But I will tell you this much, it involved using some food sources and making an effigy of sorts. And then you have to do certain things to identify the doll. And then you break off a leg or an arm of the doll. And it's basically what he did. He broke the leg off and the guy got in the car crash and his leg got malt.

And this was 45 years ago so the statute of limitations have expired but even still. I don't think you can get a trouble for hexes. Yeah, maybe in the spiritual world you do. But I don't think there's a statute of limitations in the spiritual world. No, there's not. I think eternity means eternity. But the other one was much more fun. I think you probably would have liked that more. It was a sex hex I did on this girl. You did a sex hex? On this girl named Susanna. And I went to a nice school.

That's a good band too. And we were, I mean, I was like a skinny red-headed kid. Go into night school after surfing and she would be there and everyone loved her. And I was just some sweaty kid. And she came to my house one night to go buy some hash because I had a roommate that was selling pot and hash and stuff. So I had already done this incantation on this girl. Can I ask before you go any further what you use for a good incantation versus a bad one?

Like if you're going to do a sex hex, do you make a doll? No. You don't have to make a doll. No. What do you have to do? Paper. You just got to conjure something down on paper? No. Conjuring is in the air. Paper you would write. You okay. So you write something down on paper and that conjures the sex hex? You have to do a prayer to invoke a spirit to be conjured. So anyway, so the girl, she was, I would love her and they thought she was just so great.

And I liked her too and I just, I would see if this works. So you wrote some stuff down? Yeah. Do you have to write in a specific language? English. It's English. So I wrote her name, my name and I drew some little pictures on there and then I burnt it and then said a prayer. And the next night she came over to my apartment to buy this hash and you know, I don't know anything about anything. So she comes in and she goes, hey, what's your sign? And then I said, I'm a Virgo.

She goes, oh, my horse goes, says I'm supposed to make love to a Virgo in a tropical surrounding and I went and scoot a black light bulb in my bathroom and plugged the tub and said, here's a waterfall. Let's go. And I completely forgot about it until the next morning when I woke up, she had, she had these geraniums in her hair, those red little flowers and they were all over my bedroom, that's the only way I even remembered.

Are you sure that wasn't just because you're a cute guy and you were good at guitar and she liked you? No. No. Because she was cute to me. Yeah, I was like 20. You're like, you know, she was, she was like the most pretty screwing school, you know. Maybe she liked Sessions. I don't know. You really think it was the sex act? No, I think it's all make believe actually. Oh, you're being sarcastic. No, how is it doing? No, no. I think a lot of it is power of suggestion, you know, a wonder.

That'd be pretty crazy if you could actually do that though. That sounds like a lot of you seem to be able to do that like the great, whatever's name is, the guy that can bend the spoon and shit with the mind and stuff. There's a lot of people, but you know how they do that. They have a very specific spoon and it reacts to the heat of you rubbing your fingers. Oh, now you ruined it. Sorry. Sorry, it's not magic. Yeah. Well, I'm not opposed to what's his name is. The great kazinsky.

No, that's the same. I mean, James Randy did it and he's a non-believer, but I mean, Penn and Teller can do it. All those musicians can do it. I saw a band-a-check do it in person. I saw him do it in front of my face. He did it. And he didn't tell her. Those guys are amazing. Yeah, they're amazing. They're amazing. And they're so good for magic too because they'll tell you that it's bullshit. And you know, they're… Oh, I've seen that show.

Yeah. Well, the show bullshit was about all kinds of things. Some of the things that aren't even bullshit like yoga, but one of the things that they were doing was like doing magic and letting you in on the joke, like letting you know that it's bullshit, but still doing it in such an amazing way that you're blown away by it. It's a really genius show. But anyway, I'm not… I don't not believe in magic. It's… I'm not… It could be real. I just haven't seen it.

Yeah. But it doesn't mean that weird things can happen with people's minds, especially when people believe things. Yeah. And I'm not exactly sure if I understand the interface between people's minds. I think there's a lot more going on with people and their minds like the way we interact with each other than I think we would like to believe. We'd like to believe that we're independent thinkers and that we're not that influenced by other people's thoughts. But I think we are in a big way.

Oh, you certainly are. I've been mentioning the propaganda that they could say like if this whole thing… Here's an example of what we're talking about magic. I had heard that David Copperfield had marched an elephant out into the middle of the Lakers' court. This is what I heard. It was a magic trick and you made it disappear or something like that during half time. Now I don't have any proof to that. I don't know if it was ever a real story if it was just some idiot talking about it.

Let's find out. Let's Google it. We need to Google that one because if he did, we need to have talk with Mr. Copperfield. He might know some things. I mean, if you had real magic and that's what you did, you just decided to do a Las Vegas show. There it is, the vanishing elephant. So this was on television? Is that what this was? He supposedly did it at the Lakers'… So he closes the gate. Then a puff of smoke. Oh, they're going to show you how the trick is going to be. And then two hours go by.

Exactly the same as the netting to the left until the right of the key. Oh, this is probably a big hit. Yeah, they're showing how they do it. They're on mass magician guy. Yeah. When he went and ruined everyone's fun. We clearly see the elephant as well as the netting behind him. Okay, in case anybody needs to get rid of an elephant. Right. Oh, you bastard. When the magician triggers the explosives, the mirrors slide into place, locking your view into the cage. Oh, that's genius.

You are no longer seeing the elephant netting inside the cage. Instead, you're seeing a reflection of the netting outside the cage. Inside the cage. Still there. Genius. The other thing that appears at the elephant is vanished. Well, I'm genius. There you go. It's a trick. Just like the sex hex. You ruined it. Jamie's got some paper right now. He's writing some sex actions. I saw him. I'll do a sex hex between you and Jamie. And we'll see if we're wrong. Oh, don't do that.

I don't ruin our relationship. All right, I'm sorry, Joe. There's no need for this day. Okay, let's just play. So, but when did you become a born again Christian? Like, what year did that take place? God, you know, it just was such a natural thing. I can't even remember when it was. I was in Texas and Hunt Texas. Remember how old you were? It's not too long ago. Maybe 15, 20 years ago. Maybe. Okay, so this is after all the kids.

I mean, Jamie could find a, because they made fun of me a lot when I got to the net. Who is there? Like, I'm not going to get a lot of that. That's the most terrible thing. It's just that I would get wimpy with my playing. And it's, I mean, didn't change anything, because, you know, when I, if you look at any of my lyrics, a lot of them are from the book of Revelation and Daniel. There's a lot of, you know, scary nightmare stuff that they talk about.

And like Washington is next is about, you know, Daniel talking about dreams and interpreting dreams. And, you know, we've wholly worse, of course, Blackmail the Universe. There's so many, so many, many, many songs that talk about, you know, end time stuff, you know, stuff that's gone on during time, any kinds of super awesome stuff like with the spiritual stuff in nature, where great things happen to good people, you know.

Like on our new album, Soul Jaronis, a song about, kind of walking away from something, you know, some people had said that it's a song about abandonment. And some people said about perseverance for me. The song is about knowing somebody in your life, like you and I talked about earlier, you know, the difference between people who make it and who don't. You know, you have to make that painful decision to walk away.

And in that song, I talk about somebody that I knew, that was making some really bad decisions in their personal life, and that I needed to walk away from it. I needed to Soul Jaron in order to take care of myself. You know, it's like the masks that come down in the airplane, they say, you know, if you're traveling with a little bastard, and he's fighting, you know, put your mask on, let him pass out. And then put your mask on him after your say it. That's how they should say it.

Yeah, you have to be safe first. You always have to put your mask on first. Yeah, but that's so the key. Or carry a whole bunch of people. Yeah, but you should, if you do that, and you're the responsible one, that's the idea behind it, right? You don't want to be out cold with a five-year-old trying to figure out what the fuck to do. Yeah. And then you can't open it. Yeah, even then.

So when you first became a born-again Christian, and then there was this, whatever, what you'd call a backlash, that's died off, though. Sure it is. Yeah, because people realized you didn't change the way you mean you just... I changed internally. I already had changed. But I mean the music was still just as hard. I mean, everything was still. So it's like people want this... people are very afraid of people changing.

You know, very afraid of like... I should think of that right when you said that. Yeah. They're often afraid of artists changing too. Like even though artists like oftentimes want to make different kinds of music. Well, come on, you remember when Coke changed its formula to new Coke? What the hell is wrong with you people? That didn't make any sense because did they keep original Coke too? I don't know.

Do you know the whole story behind Coke and one of the reasons why I think they changed it to new Coke? No, but I know this is really old, old Coke. Well Coke was still, not old, old Coke. Still, new Coke. The Coke that you have not right now, not new Coke, the flavor. But Coke that's available in 2022 is made with cocaine. They process cocaine. They take out all the cocaine and that's part of the flavor of the Coke formula. This is like fact. It sounds like conspiracy theory.

But if you find out that the company in this country, the process is the most medical pharmaceutical cocaine, is the same company that supplies the... Let's make sure this is true. Goddamn. But if you find somebody in the parking lot with a bunch of co-cans laying around, you know what he's OD? No, it doesn't have cocaine in it. Like the original Coca-Cola had cocaine in it. But the Coca-Cola, rather of today, is free of cocaine, but it gets flavoring from co-cali. It's part... Yeah, the Quran.

Remember that stuff down in Brazil? Yeah, Guarana. That's a different thing. That's actually like a stimulant, like more of like a caffeine. That's like in Asahi, that has Guarana better. That stuff. That stuff's great. But they use these co-calives. They process something. They take out all the cocaine and it's part of the secret flavor of Coca-Cola. Because like whenever anybody does a cola, like RC Cola or something like that, it tastes good. But it doesn't taste like Coca-Cola.

They don't exactly get it right, right? That Coca-Cola taste, everybody fucking loves. Well part of that Coca-Cola taste comes from co-calives. So let's make sure that's true. It's so terrible. I'm having a bunch of 100% positive that's true. I've not tried any cocaine. No, no, no, no, no, no. Coca-Cola, yes. Yes, I have with sugar. Exe sugar, yeah. It's delicious. It's very good. You can get that in California. Can you? Can you? Can you ship it over in the bottles? Yeah. You got something good?

No. Jamie? I think he's sleeping. Okay, no. There's something in there for sure. I know it's a true story. So once he finds a good version of it, we'll read it. But it's the crazy history of Coca-Cola is really interesting. I mean, really originally it was like a cocaine supplement. Like you drink Coca-Cola and you get a little jolt of cocaine. Yeah. Which was normal. Okay, pharmacist John Pemberton invented Coca-Cola in 1885, making the original formula for the beverage and its backyard.

He advised Coca-Cola as a patent medicine that could cure headaches, upset stomach, and fatigue. Pat medicines weren't regulated. They often contained addictive ingredients like cocaine and opium and toxic ingredients like mercury and lead, according to the National Institute on Drug Abuse. The NIDA said in a 2020 blog post that Pemberton's recipe contained cocaine in the form of an extract of the Coca-Leave, inspiring part of the soft drinks name.

The Coca-Leave in its natural form is a harmless and mild stimulant compared to coffee. But cocaine can be extracted from its leaves, according to the transitional institute. That's why people chew it. When they chew the Coca-Leaves, it's really like a mild stimulant. Gregory Collins, PhD, an associate professor of pharmacology at the University of Texas, San Antonio, also told Verify that the cocaine alkaloid is present at very low levels, and less than 1% in most coca-leaves.

The cocaine alkaloid can then be extracted and purified to produce the drug cocaine. Coca-Cola likely contained cocaine alkaloid as part of the coca-leave extract at very low concentrations and similar to the coca-leave teas. Cocaine was legal and a common ingredient in U.S. medicines aimed at curing a wide range of ailments when coca-Cola was invented, which is pretty wild, according to NIDA. People thought cocaine was safe to use in small amounts at the time.

It probably is. 1970 cocaine became an expensive recreational drug. Now, find out about Coca-Cola in today's form. Because in today's form, I know they use something from the coca-leaves. They're trying to say, despite this U.S. Coca-Cola, a coca-coca-US directed verified to a statement that says cocaine has never been an added ingredient in coca-Cola and the drink does not currently contain cocaine or any other harmful substances.

Now, it doesn't contain cocaine anymore, but I think it's flavored with the coca-leaves. I think they use coca-leaves, and I'm pretty sure that the company that does it also makes, I think they process out the coca-cane and they use that for medical grade cocaine, which is still a thing like lidocaine, I believe comes from that as well, which is the use of... Yeah, the use of for other things too, it's likely... It's like anesthetic. And it's aesthetic, that's it, exactly. It numbs you, I guess.

Chimes boring people. What's that? It's boring people. Yeah, boring people numbs them, or just like putting them in a job at sucks that numbs them too. But it's not as effective, apparently, as cocaine. That used to be the thing that people did when they would go to parties. So they would do a little cocaine, have some fun. And up in the bathroom. Yeah. It's now with fentanyl being added to cocaine, you're taking a giant risk.

So number one cause of death between people 18 to 49 in this country now is overdose. It's good, boss. Well, they don't think they're getting a speedball, they think they're getting cocaine. They're getting cocaine that's cut with fentanyl, or they think they're getting ecstasy. They're getting ecstasy that's cut with fentanyl, or street zanix, or there's a lot of different things that people get that they don't know. I'm so glad I don't know all this anymore.

Fentanyl is the doses that kill you are so small. It's like a, like not even as big as like a pencil eraser will fucking kill you. It's really potent stuff. So like, I mean, I mean, in a flat circle, like the size of a pencil eraser, I don't even mean like a thickness. That will fucking shoot for sure kill you, but just the surface area of the eraser of a pencil will kill you. It's a terrible, terrible thing. Okay, just one company in the US is licensed to import and process coca leaves.

The Steven company of Northfield, Illinois, after Steven processes coca leaves at its Maywood, New Jersey plant, it extracts the cocaine. The company uses the spent leaves to create a cocaine free extract and sends the extract to Coca-Cola. Good, I was right. Coca-Cola is grandfathered in as far as receiving the extract. It's the only company in the US licensed to have it, making it the only soft drink to have coca leaf extract as one of its ingredients. Pretty fucking wild.

Yeah. Coca and it's been extracted from the leaves is sold to maln cropped pharmaceuticals, the only company in the US licensed to purify cocaine for medical use. Specifically cocaine hydrochloride, a prescription jug used in hospitals as a local anesthetic by eye, ear, nose, and throat doctors. Maln copped is a long time St. Louis company that was sold in 2000, but its operations headquarters still based in St. Louis. Wow, shit. Did you ever chew coca leaves?

No, I used to stick paste in my nostrils. Hey, that's more effective. I was just thinking that right now you're talking about all those gorillas dragging back, back, full of shit up into America and getting it into the vacuum coming up to America. You were talking about them chewing and I just pictured guy stuffing that stuff from the pirate movie with Tom Hanks in it. What was that stuff? Oh cat. Cat, yes, cat. Yeah, that's some weird narcotic, right? Cat is K-H-A-T.

I think that's another kind of an alkaloid that's a stimulant that's supposed to have almost like meth and phetamine effects. I don't know. I thought it was supposed to be more like opiates, but. I feel like it's like a speed. I'm pretty sure it's a speed. Again, I don't know anybody who's tried that stuff though. That sounds pretty interesting. Yeah. Did you find any of that? Cat. What is that shit? That was a good movie. That was a good movie. I thought I never saw that movie unfortunately.

Cat is a stimulant and chewing it can make people more alert and talkative, produce feelings of elevation, suppress the appetite. Huh. Yeah. Isn't it more potent than that? Yeah. I think they're being really, they're probably selling it. They're being pretty liberal, yeah. Pretty general in their talk, I guess. Do you know how that all started? The pirate thing? Mm-hmm. It started from people. It was originally just fishermen. And people were dumping shit. Smaller coast of Somalia.

Yeah. I think they called themselves the People's Coast Guard of Somalia. Google that. The People's Coast Guard of Somalia. I'm pretty sure that's what they originally started calling themselves. They were fishermen who were dealing with people dumping toxic waste into the ocean. Yeah. And they were killing all the fish. And so they were violating international law. These people that were doing that.

So what they would do is they'd kidnap those people and hold them for ransom from what they did to the ocean. Right. And then they realized, like, fuck this. Let's just start kidnap at people. Right. And then they'd just chewing cat and jacking people. Here it is. Do-do-do-do-do. Somalia's initially banded together to protect more than a thousand miles of the country's coastal waters from illegal fishing vessels and the dumping of toxic waste.

When Muhammad Sao Bar was ousted in 1991, Somalia disintegrated into warring plans, each with its own militia. 14 different national governments followed. But it failed to unite the country. Ethiopia inspired and supported da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Okay. Yeah. So they started off just trying to protect their waters. They got turned into characters on a Tom Hanks movie. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that seems like it would really suck. I remember when they had that thing going off the coast in the Gulf.

Was that that deep water something? Deep water horizon? Yeah. Yeah. That was gnarly. That was really gnarly. I remember seeing pictures of the smoke coming up off of the sea. You know, when you're flying in people who are taking pictures up there. I don't know how many of them were coming from Skyland. A lot of them looked like they were just commercial pictures. But boy, that was sketchy. That's what so nuts about pulling stuff out of the ocean, pulling oil out of the ocean.

When you realize they have to cap a broken pipe at the bottom of the fucking ocean that's spewing oil out. And you're like, hey, do you guys have a backup plan? Yeah. Do you do this quick? How long does this take? It turns out it takes a long-ass time. Sure does. Is that it right there? Is that you can see it from the sky? Is that a satellite view of it? That's not the smoke though. Is that just the oil spill? Yeah. Holy shit. Smoked stuff. You can see it from space.

Well, fortunately, the ocean is really fucking big. So even when they cap these things, even when they dump trillions of gallons, it's temporarily horrific. But the ocean eventually sort of like gets back in there. That's what I'm saying. Look at that. Look at the fires though that coming off of that thing. It's so crazy that that's in the middle of the ocean that a hole that we dug into the ground is on fire. And fire right through the ocean. That's pretty annoying. Oh my god, we're so nuts.

To be able to do that, that to me is a lot like the early nuclear power reactors. The problem with the Fukushima thing. It's like they didn't have an ability to shut them off. Yeah. What are you doing? No contingency. What are you doing? You guys, you're literally making nuclear waste. You've got a nuclear reactor going and you can't shut it off. You know we have a song on the new record about Chernobyl.

And there's, it's called the Dog's at Chernobyl, which was about when people got the evacuation notice. I had watched that, that B movie. It was just something like an extreme vacation thing with these guys who are going into Chernobyl. And then they had something else that was on TV and LA. I think it was, it was a series on Chernobyl. And a lot of people thought that I wrote that about that. But I watched that of the movie.

And there was a scene where the kids that had gone on this extreme vacation had seen all the dogs that were left behind in Pripyat in the city where Chernobyl is. And the song, believe it or not, is, it's a love song. It talks about abandonment. And the person realizes his, the girl, the person he loves or whoever left him behind without a peep. And he's like one of the dogs at Chernobyl because, you know, I was listening to the movie and watching the guy and he said they just left.

And imagine what it was, must have been like to be a pet owner and having to leave and you can't take your pets. Well imagine what it's like to be the pet and be completely abandoned or whatever. So, so I use a lot of weird metaphors like that when you were saying about, you know, the meltdown and stuff. I did a lot of research and in fact my radiologists who did my treatment for my cancer helped me write some lyrics on the end part of that because I wanted to know what the terminology is.

I mean, you seem very, very well with your vocabulary. I know what I'm trying to say, but I didn't know a lot of the terminology that I want to use with radiation chemotherapy. Any of that kind of stuff. So I asked him and he came back with this stuff was magnificent about radiation poisoning and all the different stages.

So, it's been, that's an interesting thing for me too, just not being an, you know, an observer in life and making sure that when, you know, I meet people just kind of try and learn a little bit about them. And when, when you were talking about the meltdown again, it's like I can, I can see so many pictures from that movie and trying to get that across to the lyric is really, really tough.

I don't know if you've ever really talked to any of your guests about getting into research on lyrics and stuff like that, but that's usually the thing that takes me the longest to get a record done is doing the research on the lyrics. That's interesting because I've never talked to anybody who's done research on lyrics. Most of the time, I guess, you know, it's obviously there's different ways of writing lyrics and different kinds of different things you want to project.

Have you always been a kind of guy that like, when you write a song, you have a kind of like a theme to it that you're trying to express like with this Chernobyl thing and you want to make sure that you get it through research, you want to make sure you get it through the proper use of terminology but also like cre... Like, has that always been a way that you've done music or do you just...

I've tried really hard to do that. Yes, in fact, in the very beginning when our albums were just first coming out, I'd always try and use some words that would require the listener to look it up. Not just because I was being some kind of smart answer or anything, but I just wanted to, you know, use something a little bit different and simple lyrics or have to dummy down a lyric because I can't find anything that rhymes with quarter or orange or something, you know.

So like with conjuring, like that was something that you would... There's something in that that you don't even want to sing anymore because of it. Because you had the history of it. No, there's nothing in there. There's something missing. Something's missing from that hex so that you can't do it. Even if you knew how to unjumble the words in there, there's a couple things missing. That's fascinating.

Do you do that with all your songs? We have sort of like a theme to it where it's like something there's a message in it. Try to. Let's take the title track, for example. To stick to dying in the dead, people think that's about the pandemic or the scam pandemic depending on who you are. I know that when this happened, I was going through my cancer treatment and I wanted to just put one foot in front of the other and get to the studio, do my job.

And when this lyric started to come together, it was actually several years ago. I was watching Frankenstein, I think it's Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, the one with the De Niro. Oh yeah. That fucking badass jacket. All I wanted to check is so bad, man. It was so cool. Anyway, there's one scene in the movie where this guy is walking through somewhere and he's collecting bodies and stuff. And it just made an impression on me and I thought, you know, that to me is.

Look at that thing. Yeah, it's so cool. Yeah, if it was only washed. He was a cool Frankenstein. It was interesting to watch De Niro play Frankenstein. Yeah. I mean, after raging bull, after, was this before, after the one he did with Juliet Lewis? Cape Fear. Yeah. That was great. That was great. Well, he is great. De Niro is the fucking man. Anyway, so this is what the inspiration was, you know, with bringing to life the reanimation of Frankenstein or steam, if you're a Gene Wilder.

So I thought, wow, this would be a really great thing to talk about instead of being about, you know, the pandemic, which is obvious, is to sing about that, would be to talk about the black plague. You know, because that's more along the history, what Megadeth writes about, you know, scary things have happened in history.

So that's what this is about. It's about the black plague. It starts off as the ship sailed to Sicily and it was the fleas that bit the rats that bit the people and affected blood and the stage was sad. And that's basically how the lyrics on that double album cover. Look at that. I love that you still make albums. I love the bands like you brought in vinyl.

I love that bands still do this because when I was a kid and I know I'm old, but for kids today, a big part of the getting an album experience was the artwork. Absolutely. Look at that fucking artwork. Absolutely. That's a big part of it for kids. When I was a kid to look at it, you'd be like, fuck, you'd open it up and check out the liner notes.

That was a big part of the experience. And unfortunately, that kind of went away with CDs where was this smaller, sort of less compelling version of it. You still had CD art. You know, you still have a cool cover. You know, and some of them like Dr. Dre's, the Chronic, they were very iconic. You know, a lot of them were iconic. Like you could see that image, you know, but there's something about an album, an actual physical album that was so important when we were kids.

It was such an important part of the experience. You listen to music, an album at a time. You didn't listen to a song at the time. You know, the good thing about this record, we have a couple different versions of it. We have the version that you're holding with that lenticular cover. It's like a 3D cover and it has bonus tracks on it. We also have a 180 gram German vinyl that we had made. It's a two-fold album, three songs each side. So the groups are very far apart. It sounds really great.

You know, when you listen to that, it goes, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, you know, it's like, because the groups are so damn close together. You know, you hear it bleeding through the track. And for this album, it's just pristine. We had Ted Jensen, a master engineer at Chris Rakeshron. I produced it with Josh Wilber mixing it. And I just lost my trend of thought with the last thing I was talking about was the vinyl.

Oh, I know what I wanted to say. One of the vinyl has rare tracks on it. It has a cover that we did with Sammy Hagar. Displanted us on fire from when he left Montrose before he got into Van Halen. He had this raging song called Displanted on Fire. So we did that and I called Sammy up and I said, hey, would you want to play on this? He said, yes, you're sending the tracks. So we sent him the track and he goes, I'll sing it. But dude, I ain't fucking playing on that with you shredders.

And I went, oh man, that's cool, because I really looked up to him. And we played that song Displanted on Fire in Panic before I joined Metallica. Oh, wow. Almost probably would have played it in Metallica if I would have stuck around a little longer. Wow, that's fucking awesome. When you were in Metallica, what was the stuff that you guys were listening to back then?

All kinds of stuff. I think I listened to different stuff than James and Lars. James was kind of being held hostage in Ron McEvaney's house. And I was always being played there. Or whenever they would go to the local import record store, they would get cool stuff. We usually went up to the record plant in San Francisco. There was a really cool store up there.

And they had the greatest vinyl patches, t-shirts. Every time we'd go up and play the stone or the mubu hay, we'd go in there and we'd get patches and t-shirts and stuff. And not so much vinyl because you know you travel, you don't want to get violent, take it home and have it all food bar by the time you get home. But that was a real cool thing was to trek from LA up to San Francisco and whatever souvenirs we'd bring home. How was James being held hostage? He had to live at Ron's house.

Yeah, too. It's a metaphor. I'm joking around. So what was happening was James, I think he mentioned something about... I can't really remember much about him when we were growing up together. But I think his dad died and then his mom got really sick and he moved out. He was living with Ron. And I'm joking when I say he's been on the line. I'm not sure.

But he was living at Ron's and then when we kicked Ron out of the band, James moved in with me and my mom down to Costa Mesa, which was really uncool. Me and him sharing a bedroom that was about the size of this table here. And yeah. That's rock and roll. Yeah, we would get so. I mean, he loved to drink vodka. I don't know if he's still drinking or not.

But we would drink vodka like crazy and he had this little pickup track and we would drive from Costa Mesa up to Huntington Beach where we would celebrate and party with all my friends from Huntington Beach that James didn't know. Because James was from Norwalk and Downey kind of an uncool little area where he was living at. They covered it with a freeway now. So it gives you an idea how significant the neighborhood was. But I remember driving back and forth at PCH and it was foggy.

I mean, bad fog. And this guy would be driving pretty quickly down PCH and we were both drinking and I. It was probably a safe bet if we would have done that too many more times we were going to get in an accident because I lost a friend the very first time we played down in Dana Point with panic on the way home. The drummer and the band got in a car crash along PCH coming home. So it's always been a sore spot for me that area in Huntington Beach and the coastline.

Well, the coastline has always been a really dangerous place. Particularly for car accidents and drunk driving like around Malibu and that area. There's a ton of accidents. I know multiple people that have been in accidents there. It's also it's like it's easy to get distracted. The ocean is on the side of you and it's only a two lane road and some spots. It's like, yeah. And there's a lot of bars around that area. You know, there's a lot of people.

I spent much time in Malibu. I preferred, you know, when I went to the beach I went down by Huntington in Newport. I used to surf down in Newport. And that's where a lot of the punk rock stuff that influences this new record came from. I was a big fan of Jelebi Gaffer and the Dead Kennedys. And we ended up doing a Dead Kennedys cover on this record again. Police truck. I don't know if you've ever heard that song or not.

But the Dead Kennedys got banned playing up in San Francisco because of some of the things that the frontman Jele had said. I think it was either in an interview or in his lyrics, but they weren't having any part of it anymore. And I just loved that band because you know, I was a little surf punk and I thought, let's listen. Hello, Biafra say that got people. I don't know. Jamie is a fascinating guy. There's a lot of his spoken word stuff that's to music.

Have you ever heard of that? His stuff? No. He is getting these long rants to music that are very interesting. I've heard his rant done by someone else. I heard when I steed it, the beginning of his album, he had Jeleau do something on a song called Shut Up. Be Happy.

That's how I ended up becoming so close with ice. We met at our management company, I met a Cahane and I said, I were in their talking and I said, you know, that's the desk that Gretchen or whatever the girl's name from the nymphs or the pixies or whatever pissed on their managers desk. That was the famous desk he was sitting on and so I told him, yeah, I might want to stand up.

So then we ended up becoming friends. I did a writer record one time and the guy says, what's your top five records? And I said, oh, geo, geo, geo, geo, and he heard about that. I thought it was really cool. I had heard some of his stuff and I had no idea it was even ice like colors. That's a great song. That's a great song. It is a great movie too, man. Yeah, that movie. That's a, that was God had to be like 88 or something.

Was it Brandon Dreyfus? Was that who that was? Yeah, Sean Penn. Yeah. Yeah. Was it Dreyfus or was it a no? That's the guy from JAWS. It was right. Yeah, exactly. It wasn't. It was. I could picture him right now. Oh God. Bald guys. He's in a lot of shit. He always plays a few old cop that knows better. Yeah. God damn it. He's a fucking brilliant actor. Colors. Oh, thank you. Godfather. He was in the Godfather. He's a lawyer, right? He was in a lot of things. That guy's amazing. Yeah.

That was a, that was a fun movie, but that song Colors. Yeah. That's a good track. Yeah. Oh, I see. He had some great shit. Yeah. He asked me to do a couple tracks on his body count stuff. And I was really eager to do that. It was a song called Civil War. I played on that and did some spoken word on that too. Yeah. It's a cool talent. You know, he's the longest running male actor on a TV show in industry. Isn't that crazy? And he plays a cop. Yeah.

The guy who wrote and sang cop killer. The guy who is a dual burglar. Yeah. I've been reading his split decision right now and it's crazy. Long as running cop ever on television. That's hilarious. That's great. Good for him. Yeah. It's killing it. He's, he's one of the OGs of the LA rap world.

When when gangster rap became giantly popular in the late 80s, I see was one of the OGs. He was. Yeah. I mean, he has some fucking great songs six in the morning. Some great songs. You know, it's a, I love seeing those guys still doing it today too. You know, I, when I was a kid and rap was first sort of coming out, I was wondering like we're going to see like rappers tour in their later years the same way that we see rockers tour in their later years.

Because when we're a kid, we thought of it as being a young person's game, you know, rap or rock and roll really. Right. You know, but it seems like there was a renaissance somewhere at some point in time where people wanted to see those old guys get back on the road again. And, and still do the same shit and still kill it. You know, I have never really gotten that immersed in the rap or hip hop world. So I don't really know a lot of the players. You know, I know the regulars, you know, the NWA.

Right. You know, obviously I said nice cube and all those guys and and there's there's not anybody that really came to mind to do that part. We have ice singing on one of our songs. I think I tell you that. So there's there's on the night stocker track on here. We actually had him do a guest voice appearance for me now because we're ping ponging back and forth to guest appearances on each other's records.

So he is playing Colonel Cretz from Apocalypse Now. So to speak in the lyric where we in the night stocker song on the new record. I was going to write it about Richard Ramirez and then I did some research on him and Joe, I thought this guy's just too evil, too sick. I would never want to write anything about him.

So I ditched the night stocker thing and then I found out my daughter was dating a fighter pilot for the base up in Kentucky with the Apache's and and I thought that was pretty cool and and found out that the battalion of there's called the night stockers. I went, all right, I got my title back. So I met a friend of mine who I'm very close with named John Clement, who was a pilot and told me a lot introduced me to suit to several of the people up at the base.

And we started our relationship with the night stockers there. The song has ice in there playing pretty much like how Lou Gossett Jr. did in in officer in a gentleman when gear goes, I got nowhere else to go while he's holding his nuts, right? And I think he was the one that got kicked in the balls. And I just thought you got to have that kind of grittiness.

And then then crushed that with Colonel Krebs and see who could do the ice, ice is perfect. And so I said, this is what I want to do. This is what I want to say. And I gave him artistic license to do whatever you wanted to do to what we sent him. And I hope when you hear it, you like it because it's pretty cool. Well, it's also awesome is that you guys are constantly putting out new shit still. That's where it's really cool. I love old I love I saw the stones in their town and it's amazing.

But it's mostly Keith Richards played a couple new songs, but it's mostly the stuff that they've been known for for all these decades. But it's still amazing to see. Yes, like at 70 he's fucking Biden's age. Yeah, Mick Jaggers out there fucking dancing around on stage and he's Biden's. It's wild. Yeah. I mean, we're kids. We never thought of 78 year old rockers. That would be I didn't know anything that was 78 years old.

But you would never imagine that because no none of those people from the early days. I mean, I don't wonder how old James Brown was when he stopped touring, but most of those guys that you didn't see them in their 70s doing rock and roll songs that they would sing when they were in the 20s. It's wild to see.

Yeah, well lyrics and change meaning for me. It's kind of hard to sing about anarchy when I've got a Aston Martin in my driveway. But I think the fans for that. I would never I don't want ever lose sight of that and think that this is my own doing. I work my ass off Joe and I know you do too.

And the things that I have I know came from the support for what we're doing and we sing about stuff. Not everybody wants to sing about you know, there's a lot of stuff on this record. Like junky for example, we started off really heavily on this conversation with drug talk and stuff.

But I think the beauty about that was we talked a little bit about it. We the people who are out there that are struggling heard what we were saying heard maybe something and when I said that maybe made them you know not hear me but listen to me and maybe find out you know, I you know, I don't like Dave, but I I liked the fact that he was dying and that he was able to pull the nose dive up and boy, things have sure gotten good for me lately.

Well, that is always a great message for people to hear, especially someone they admire someone they admire that has gone through everything that you've gone through that you've been open about from drug addiction and chaos. And then what and now health cancer free doing great doing you get to live and healthy. That's so important for people to hear because so many people when they're they're on a certain trajectory they feel like there's no way getting off the train.

They're on the train to yeah, they're stuck. They're headed to a fucked up life and when a person like yourself can say you know what I was on that train to and I said fuck this I'm getting off and turned it around. So a lot of people are afraid to make that that junk. They're afraid to take both feet off of first base and constantly they'll never get to second base and for me I look at a lot of the things that were holding me back and I needed them.

So I needed them to beat my ass. I needed to I needed to get all of the stubbornness whooped out of me. You know, I was a person that you know, if if I wanted something done I was going to get it no matter what. And now I step back and I say you know, if I want something done it's what's right that needs to be done. And if it's not what I want it doesn't matter.

It's what's right because we have a huge huge organization and there's a lot of people who are counting on us to be able to bring them entertainment especially now with the way the economy is the way the people are just feeling like what's the use. We come there. We help them just let go just just for that hour. We've got 55 minutes. We get to play with five finger death punch and we make the best out of it.

Yeah, that's a beautiful thing for a fan. You know that you're you're continuing to do that and for for fans that are of everything and anything that artists produce it's it's when your life is shit but you know the fucking new mega death albums coming out. You get pumped and you hear it it elevates you. That's a beautiful thing about art. The beautiful thing about some creating something that people can enjoy is that it for those people that it hits them like.

Yeah, they feel better. It really can music in particular is amazing that way it actually changes the way you feel. It does like David Goggins won't listen to music when he runs because he thinks it's cheating. I say that too. I just say that too but I'm not a hypocrite because I started listening to it when I work out because it really does make working out easier.

If you listen to a great soundtrack like when you're on like an elliptical machine or one of those airdined bikes it sucks. It's boring. You know you don't want to just fucking sit there and huff along for an hour but you listen to good music. You get fucking pumped. Yeah, yeah, it's like a drug. It really does hit you. Yeah, there's a motivational thing I've mentioned earlier with you about Schwarzenegger was on it but it was this hour long motivational thing called let's fucking do it.

I downloaded it and I remember I was going to a real hard time in my life at the time we just moved out to national and I was having this real awful human being in my career. He was trying to say he was working with us as a manager but it was farther nothing farther could be from the truth because we went 60 days one time without talking.

And I brought him a letter that day and I said look man, you know what you're done we're out of here and I went over to 5B the last seven years of my life has been the Dave Mustangs charm offensive and we've been really really working on on getting our rightly space in history and our position in the whole touring world and recording world you know.

Some things we had to let go of like some people that we were really close to and they were just bad for us. Yeah, well that's one of the unfortunate things that does happen in a journey and that's one of the things that I admire most about bands so they can figure out all those internal disputes between band members which are inevitable.

The band members end and also members of the crew members of the management and it's always it's constant conflict it's hard for people to find peace in that it's amazing when a band can keep it together. I mean artists are crazy I mean there's a lot of stuff so many crazy people you know and including guys like yourself will come out of that with peace.

It's like in the beginning like people are nuts you know and they're trying to make nutty music you know it's like there's a lot of a lot of thoughts that don't gel together you know a lot of people's ways they're living their lives you know.

I think what's cool is what you're saying that's so important for people is to see that you can you can have those things in your life and still get past them and get past them and then be a guy like yourself as a very specific ethic that he lives his life by. And that that's that's available to other people too they can hear you say that and go you know what I want to do what Dave's done I want to live my life in that manner you know and it's really positive. Thank you.

It's and I know you realize it's positive too which is really cool because you talk about it and you know that it can affect people and give you think about who you were when you were 14 15 year old kid. If you had heard a guy like you that you admire talk about that it puts it in their head and they realize like oh yeah there's a right way to live this life. There's a way to live this life. It's a seal of approval from someone that you look up to. Yeah. It's almost an endorsement.

And you know that's one of I think a very strong benefit of religion for a lot of people is that it gives them a very strong moral scaffolding to live their life by. Good word. You know what I mean I mean it's sort of like it's a structure that allows you to sort of like you always have a place to think always have a place to go this is it's like there's.

There's ways you live period and in doing that it makes trials and tribulations difficult moments easier because you do recognize it is a process to life and that this is a way to do this where you're going to be a good person you're going to feel good about yourself and still you can overcome things and succeed.

There's a lot of stuff that that you need to I don't know you got to have the common sense to know you've got to overcome it some people they they just get trapped in that place where you get the like we were talking earlier about the Brian Wilson story and and all these other stories like with Elvis and you know where you have enablers around you and an enabler is a word that signifies exactly what it means.

It's just people helping you do things that aren't good for you sometimes that that could be good for you but most generally most often it's not and those are the people I was just working with my son he was managing a group was Danny no Zelle over at CTK and they were managing a band the one of the band members just died because he had someone that he started seeing who the guy would wake up and she was like,

he would wake up and she would give him four beer cans in this vesties to wear so he'd start his day with beers all over. And he was staying at a house my someone over there was someone else to go move him and the dresser all the drawers were fully empty beer cans so so bizarre. And this is someone that's coming in there and sneaking and bruised who guy is supposed to be drying out to save his life and constantly he's dead now which is about. Man, yeah.

That's the worst when someone finds an enabler instead of someone who can pull him out of it. Someone just lets you keep doing it. It's such a normal part of people that are going through any sort of success in the public eye too. There's so much pressure that's involved whether it's performing in a band or anything we're going to do it publicly. It's sort of people look for a release valve. They want what they want. Yeah. And they also want escape. They want escape from just the angst of being.

You know, and that's alcohols. One of the best escapes because you just don't give a fuck. You get hammered, you don't give a fuck but you're slowly killing yourself. And it's one of those things where it's so common. That term common sense is such a strange term, right? Because it's not that common. It's something people call it common sense but it's less common than not having common sense. Yeah. Unpopular sense. If you common sense is probably like 20% of the people have it.

50% if the most, if you're being really, really generous, 50% of the people have common sense. I heard Einstein had said that people used to be between 3 to 8% of their brains and 8% obviously would be the geniuses. Imagine what it would be like if that was really accurate and people could access more than, you know, the 8%. That was the premise of that movie, Lucy. Did you ever see that movie, Lucy? No. Is a movie with, was it Scarlet Johansson?

Yeah. Scarlet Johansson plays this woman who gets a hold of this drug accidentally. She's like involved in some sort of drug trade thing that goes sour and she gets a hold of this drug accidentally that turns her into a person that can use 100% of their mind and she becomes like a god. Oh. It's really wild movie with Morgan Freeman. I think I saw this. It's great. It's fun. It's really fun. It's really interesting.

It's like kind of like a superhero movie but it has a, I don't want to spoil it for anybody but it's a great movie if you haven't seen it. Go check it out. But the idea of using only like 7 or 8% of your brain, I think that's not real. I think they used to think that at one point in time but now they don't believe, they think there's different parts of the brain or for different things and their understanding of the brain is still relatively speaking.

Yeah. Kind of, they don't know really a lot of like what's going on in there. They know specific areas of the brain create memories or was where you store memories and motor skills and they know that when you get injuries to specific areas of the brain, that's where there's problems. And they can sort of isolate that. But I don't think they think you use only 7 or 8% of your brain anymore. Well, that's Einstein's quotes. I would probably tend to go. Did Einstein say that? Yeah, he did.

Maybe he was being like, I mean, I didn't make that up. Right. I know but people say that. It's one of those things. If it's in that movie, Lucy, that's why I said that. Yeah. And even in the movie, Lucy, when they said that, I'm like, I don't think that's true. I think that's a... Well, I don't feel like I use 100% of my braining to your damage. Well, I don't think anybody does. Yeah. But it's like, what does that mean? Using your brain... Your brain varies with how tired you are.

But it's all clear. Whether you're sick, whether you're stressed out, whether you're at peace, whether you've exercised, whether you're in love, whether you're happy with your life. Your brain varies constantly depending on how many things it has to think about. That's why I love the sensory deprivation tank. I think that we talked about earlier. That's true. Yeah. The ability to separate yourself from as much physical input as possible is pretty amazing in the way your brain can function.

Okay. It says, Others have claimed that Einstein attributed his intellectual giftedness and to be able to use more than 10% of his brain. But this is itself a myth. Another possible source of the 10% myth is neurosurgeon, will-der-penfields discovery in 1930 of a silent cortex. Brain areas that appear to have no function when he stimulated them with electricity. We now know today that these are areas that these areas are functional.

Okay. So it was just a... I think it was just a thing that people used to say. Where's the myth originates? No one knows for sure. Public theory has the journalist Lowell Thomas helped spread its myth and its preface to Dale Carnegie's blockbuster self-help book, How to Win Friends and Influence People. There it is. So he misquoted the brilliant American psychologist William James is saying that the average person specifically develops only 10% of his latent mental ability.

Okay. So it's just a misquoted... You're welcome, man. Yeah, but we all know that your brain or at least your mind, like the way you think, works better if you're feeling good and if you're healthy. Sure. And if a person's constantly walked out on Coke, it's probably not so good for the way you think and live your life. No. Are you happier now? I think so. I think what makes me happy is different, Joe. It's, you know, it's relative.

I think when you're around people that are complaining all the time, you're going to want either help them or if they don't want help and they keep complaining, you need to kind of change your address. Yeah. Has that been like a consistent formula for you in terms of like living your life in a happier way? Just get rid of the people that suck? No, because there wasn't that many people.

I think what needed to happen for me was just to kind of get my priorities in order and to learn a little bit more about what I'm doing. That's right. And stuff that could be better, you know, in all areas, you know, with being a husband, being a dad, being a friend, being a leader. You know, it's involved to have an organization this big, you know.

So there's a lot of stuff there and I think that, you know, the cancer was a lot of perspective and, you know, some people can have chronic perspective loss with the music industry, you know, just how distorted, how distorted things are from reality. And, you know, I guess as I started to get healthier with the cancer and the success of everything now, it's making me want to help people more.

I've been saying this in some of my interviews lately about being more philanthropic with some of the younger bands that reach out for advice and stuff. I mean, you can't teach, you know, some people, you just can't. But I like to help when I can if they ask. But you can teach the ones who you can, if they want to learn. Right. But there's enough of them out there that it really does make a difference, right?

Yeah. There's a lot of people out there that want to learn that are just looking for somebody in their life like me, man. I was searching for a male role model since my dad was gone. My two brother and mom's were both dealing with their own kids. You know, how weird is that to go over and have to spank somebody else's kid?

I'm sure. Yeah, it was weird. When you're thinking back on the moment where you got cancer and like the shift in your mindset because of that, like other than being philanthropic, what, how did it alter the way your perspective was? Well, I think you tend to look at the calendar a little different. You know, I never really looked at it like I've got such and such amount of days left to live.

I've always tried to look at my life as every day as a gift and just try my best to go home, not have made any trouble in anybody's life. I heard this saying a long time ago, somebody was saying it in a meeting and he said, if you meet three assholes in one day chances are one of them's you. And I thought, you know, I don't like that saying so I'm not meeting the assholes today. And you'd be surprised how it works if you, you know, you just kind of take a step back sometimes.

Right. And people don't always need to know what you're thinking. Yeah, that's true. You could avoid conflict. I've got to learn that. That's something to learn in life that you can avoid and you're going to create more by talking. It's like that saying the cops say you have the right to remain silent. Yes. I think more people shouldn't say that. Anything you say, Ken, and we'll be held against you. Yeah. When you're experiencing a giant health scare, that's generally for a lot of people.

That's a moment where you either wake up or you go further to sleep. And then some people like yourself chose to change, chose to see things differently. I think that's great. I thought I wasn't going to take a lying down. Although I know that it could have been a lot worse. I caught it early and I did everything the doctors said. What were the symptoms? It was a tumor in my throat from, it was on this side in the back of my tongue. And, inversely, that lymph nodes down here had been affected.

So there was swollen? Two of them were affected here and then the tumor was on my tongue up here. And they didn't have to take the tumor out. They hit it so hard with the radiation that I think I had 31 treatments. I think you said I had something like that. I think I had 13 doses of chemo. It was really, really heavy. And we got it in a short period of time. That much over a long, long period of time is, I guess not that bad, but we really wanted to hit it.

And make sure that we didn't have to go in there and start cutting things. How did the chemo affect you? I had two bad days, Joe, where I was thrown up. We were in the studio and I got up to go to work and just kind of felt nauseous. Fortunately, my doctors were great and I had some additional medication for nausea. And I took that, I threw up a little bit. And then the second day that happened, kind of the same drill and that was it.

I had I had Ike days, but there were no other rough days. It was just those two rough days. Everything else was pretty, pretty I'll get through it kind of a thing. Just not comfortable, but not horrific. I mean, it felt like a bad taco Tuesday the next morning. So I guess I just, during the course of it with all of the medication coursing through your body, the doctors are trying to kill off a big part of what's wrong inside of you. So your body's going like, hey, what is what's going on here?

So eating became a chore. I still can't eat very well because the spices I was drinking that delicious drink you gave me earlier. And I like a taste with the spice in it. So you become more sensitive to spices? Spice, I can't hardly have spice anymore at all. It's ruined my sushi experience. It's ruined my Mexican food experience. Two of my favorite foods I can't do it anymore because I take hottest. Oh, wow. So that's been the big, just a shift in taste buds.

Yeah, yeah. It's kind of like using mace for binocca, you know. It's really nice. My mouth just goes nuts. Wow. And were you allowed to exercise during this time? If I wanted to, I was still doing GG's too. Really while you were getting chemo? Yeah, wow. How did it affect you on the mats? Well, I wasn't really, I mean, I wasn't rolling really hard with anybody. I think this had just drilling a lot of stuff. Yeah, I knew it was still early enough where I think I was still blue belt at the time.

Or I may have just been ready to get my blue belt when this happened. So I know I got my blue belt when I went to Europe two times ago. So I don't remember. That's one of the bummers. There's some gray spots where memories are coming back, but they're not really 100% right now. Was that from chemo, you think? I don't know. You put your head in a microwave. Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah, it's not like the comic books. No. Where people come out with powers. Well, you know, I wish I had powers.

You know, the funny thing is, is that I went in there to have the little mask put on and they clamp your head down because you can't move your head around when you're doing the radiation. They don't want to miss with those lasers. So your heads all clamp down in this piece of plastic. And they said, well, we got to heat the plastic up and you're going to sit there for 15 minutes, something, and I can't sit anywhere for 15 minutes and not move. So I said, okay, I'll try it.

So I sit down and they click everything in and a drip of water. Because the mask is all wet. It drips down my scalp into my ear. And it was like I had a bore worm going into my brain. All I could think about was that water dripping into my ear. I couldn't handle it. I said, I got to come back. So I told them I said, there's no way I can do this in sitting here for 15 minutes. I just can't do it. I have claustrophobia.

And you know, whenever I do those CAT scans and stuff, I have to be knocked out to do that. So I finally got it done. But yeah, it was a trying situation, man. You don't really know how involved all the technology is until you have to go through it now because it's gotten so much more advanced. When I think about stuff you would see on TV, you would see people that had cancer. They were bald or skinny. And you know, you don't see how the medication and the techniques have improved.

I didn't lose any hair. I, like I said, only had two bad days. That's amazing. That's amazing that they've advanced to that form. Isn't it also amazing that just a drip of water will fuck with you so hard? Like that's Chinese water torture, right? They make people lay there and just drip water on their head. Which is so crazy that that bothers us so much. Such a weird thing about the human mind and human senses. Because if you're walking in the rain, it doesn't really bother you at all.

You would think that that would be excruciating. If you're impossible to deal with. But if you're walking in the rain, you're like, ah, I'm fucking wet, whatever. It just sucks. And maybe nice. Might be nice, might be a hot day and it rains out, it feels good. The thing about the mind and the senses that a drip of water can fuck with you that hard is crazy. Yeah, you did. Especially if you're a person that freaks out about close bases.

A lot of people ask me that about the sensory deprivation tank. They're like, oh man, I've, I've caused refobic. I don't know if I could do that. And like, I think you can. Because it's not like you can't get out easy. There's a door right there. Yeah. You just get into it for a little bit, get comfortable with it, and then do a little bit more next time, a little bit more. And then after a while, your body gets accustomed.

It took me like a year to get you still like what you're doing when you lay in there. You're, you know, just, you're just kind of just chill, just chill. This is what you do now. And so now I can just do it. I could just get in there. But I remember one of, it's like the cold plunge, the same kind of thing. Yeah. If I don't think I could do that, I don't think I could do that. Say that, you say that, but you could. Yeah. The guarantee you could.

I don't know if a boat in Alaska, maybe I don't know. You could do it. People say they couldn't do it, but you could do it. You could do it for 10 seconds, right? If you could do it for 10 seconds, you could do it for a minute. We do the cryogenic chamber down by our dojo. There's a place you go into, but it's not the same. No, it's not the same, but it's still great. Yeah. If you can do cryotherapy, I used to do cryotherapy in Will and Hills. Yeah. Cryo healthcare. It was great.

You go in there for three minutes. Two minutes. You're going to face masking gloves, and I would just listen to Queen. I'd listen to a dragon attack. I'm just moving around. I was just like, that was my I'm freezing my deck off song. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I always listen to that when I would go in there. I hated that. It was cool though, because they could play music in there, and you know, it's three minutes. You could do it. Yeah. But you'd get out of there, man.

It took so long for your body to warm back up, but managed you feel good. Yeah, going outside? It's always been great. Yeah, feel so good. Yeah, mix the sun feel amazing. Yeah, it does. But it's super good for you. We were talking earlier about Sauna too. We're talking about doing that You know that we have one here and that you have one, but you just haven't haven't been like on like a regular use of it

You don't know the proper way to use it. I know in Finland that they swear by Sauna and you have to do a hot cold thing or that you have to be so hydrated or not hydrated or You know, I just I want to do it right if I go in there. I don't want to just fall asleep in a sauna and come out weighing 30 pounds You won't you won't fall asleep guaranteed. It's too uncomfortable. Yeah, but just yeah, hydrations key. Do you do take any electrolyte supplements or anything like that?

See what do I take I take so much nutrients and supplements Yeah, that's great a lot I take DJ Pregnant in a song whatever I think it is you take anything like liquid IV do you know what that stuff is I've had I've had that before Yeah, yeah, or element those are all really good. It's a hydration supplements just out of the water There's a bunch of electrolytes in there. It's really good for the thing where you go to a doctor's office in the hook

I've got a knife. Oh, yeah, one of the things was they were radiating your blood. You're your blood would come out and go into this machine Well, that's very different. It was really advanced and there was another one you would go in there and you get like a Vitamin cocktail the rating your blood. Yeah, it was some crazy technique. I can't remember what what it was

We were just starting to get it. We're just starting to do it right when COVID hit and then the guy close this practice. Have you heard of that Jamie? Yeah, they take it what is it what's the benefit of it? Clean your blood clean it they just had something and it went through this crazy machine and it would spin around like a nose Own or something like it wasn't like you know one of those I've heard that before You know you weren't spinning it for you know stem cell stuff or like that

I just think like PRP right yeah, but they would take it and treat it and then put it back in your body I don't think it ever really actually well it came out to go through the machine So but I don't think that there was ever really Leaving you for say because there was a connection made all right And it wasn't like they took it out of you and took it someplace else and came back and so it sort of pumps into the machine

Then pumps back in your body. Yeah, it went test is crazy light Okay, so some sort of wasn't that what they were talking about with With COVID and some other things that they had they had exposed it to ultraviolet light and that you could there were there were taking One of the therapies that they were considering is so they were gonna Put UV light into people's lungs like they were gonna like anesthetize them

Yeah, I just heard about this too. Yeah, they were gonna put them under and then they were gonna use UV light on their lungs to kill Not just COVID but other things you ultraviolet blood treatment there is ultraviolet blood treatment is

Simple itchervine is therapy which a small amount of blood is drawn from the patient's body through ultraviolet through an ultraviolet light emitting machine and then Reintroduced to their system the UV light acts as a see a cell cleanser killing bacteria and viruses in the bloodstream unhealthy cells absorb five times as much photonic energy and die off while healthy cells remain intact and the blood gains oxygen the effect is a vaccination-like response in which patients immune systems

Is activated to counter the specific virus or bacteria the body is trying to defeat and our clinical experience this treatment has been highly effective Against viral infections is this a whole is this a real thing? Born clinic, but hmm Why don't you google ultraviolet blood treatment debunked? Google debunked It sounds interesting

What a great thing that would be that every time you out of virus just go and get hooked up to this machine. It would just clean you out real quick They do know that these viruses that many viruses rather are killed With introduction of ultraviolet light. That's why they have these things light. Have you ever heard of a sterepan?

Explain a sterepan is something that hikers and And guys who go into the the backcountry for multiple days at a time they need water sources There's a thing called a sterepan and you can literally take water from a lake and then you Donk this sterepan in and you there's a specific amount of time that you expose the UV light to the water and it kills all the bacteria in the water So you can drink it. Yeah, so you can drink it. Yeah, so google that sterepan

We got a bunch of stuff like that when we were living in fallbrook. We had a bunch of stuff for water problems Here it is fact check UV light is not an accepted medical treatment The cure the time forgot it was it so what did we just wake up today to debunk on Dave's theories or what? No, it's not debunked theories. It's just when we bring up something we have to make sure I don't even know

That's what he was talking about to be the first. I mean, I just brought it up. No, that's right That was the thing he was talking about but um people do all that sterepan thing is a hundred percent legit I know I know they absolutely do use that. I know they have used UV light to kill bacteria and viruses but the sterepan thing How does that thing work google that sterepan?

It's like the military pan you can drink lotion water with the DC alienation stuff and and you can take Like crazy sewage water and make it drinkable and I don't think that's the same thing you're talking about But I know they got a lot of stuff like that the DC alienation. Yeah, there it is UV water purifier, which is pretty fucking wild just with light So if you see it how it's used there they just dunk that sucker in the in the water and it kills everything

Which is wild you just have this little pen that you dunk into a Nalgean butter filled with pond water and you could drink that shit. Yeah So you're interesting. Yeah, so you find a good benefit when you did that the the blood thing Happy wife happy life It made your wife happy because I went with her. Oh Yeah, but did you feel better after doing that treatment?

I'm sure I did a little bit, but I think you know the going with her was was better than than not You know it was a fun thing to do for us to just you know do health together, you know you're married and I'm sure your wife is probably very happy and very healthy and and I think you know, it's it's a good thing when you can Do stuff like that with your significant other for sure find things outside of the norm that you guys have in comment you like to do

Health is something that's really important with this Pam's been you know my Florence night and go when it came down to the whole illness and and helping me with You know not only my current issues with you know the longevity and you know the continued maintenance that I'm under for My my skeleton that's been damaged from the fusion and all the other stuff that I've had done to my body And just you know being being a great mole support

You know there's times we fight. Yeah, I think every couple does and We've been married over 30 years, which is huge accomplishment Especially when you think about some of the people that In the music business I can't think of a lot that I know that had been married that long-alus scoopers my godfather

He's been married 27 years. I think so Yeah, you don't find a lot of people that I've been married for a long long time You don't find a lot of people that are married a long time and regular jobs Yeah, but when rock and roll I'm sure it's way smaller

Well, that probably had a lot to do with Britney Spears and that Kevin Fetterline 45 second marriage that they did in Las Vegas so many years ago and I think what happens when you have a bunch of little impressionable fans that are listening to a band and and the Friend person or the leader of the band does stuff Absolutely right that people can be influenced to do they get influenced Do I think that people went out and just got married and got divorced right away because of that?

No, but I think that the Institute of Marriage has been cheapened from people not taking it seriously You know if you're gonna marry somebody it's supposed to be your your your soulmate, you know You see beautiful things in nature like those eagles and their death spiral when they're mating and is that beautiful? I think the flying and you know a lot of like the courting that do you see these other Birds and animals and stuff when they they change their color

Yeah, to appeal to the mates. Yeah, that to me is really neat I I've often wondered why in the animal kingdom that the males are so much more

Exotic looking than the females. It's it's interesting, but there's so many Different things, you know when for me when I look at how my relationship with Pam is because I've tried to really really Be in the marriage and in the parenting when we would come home from tour I've begun so long that you know she obviously had to leak over into being the dad every once in a while which she didn't like and you know I don't think the kids like to do there

So when I came home instead of coming home and saying okay, this is how it is. This is my way I had to really quickly ascertain everything and see you know what what's going on and to help if I didn't like what was going on I needed to address that privately and right in front of the kids and make sure that we were you know we're properly aligned that we were Evenly yoked, you know what I mean so that if if I come home because I one time I came home in justice

Had said something really awful to his mom and I spanked him on the button his mom goes or he goes You didn't give me many chances and I went you're okay your mom's busted and you know I Wasn't the spanker with my kids, you know they got spank in a couple times But you know that was it was not something that was Done a lot in our house because I'd been spanked so much as a kid, but I I think about when you know you have two parents and one's gone for so long especially you know in military two

You know you come home and you've got to learn that family dynamic. That's why it's so difficult because one person has to make Do and then someone else comes in and and maybe screws everything up maybe dozens right? You know so that's the The only act of being on tour for so long. Yeah, it is you have to I remember the guys in iron maiden

There was a guy that was their tour manager. I think his name was Dickey Bell I think he was their tour manager and he would come home from touring and and this is a Known thing with the tour with those guys from maiden that the guy would go to a hotel and stay there for a week after every tour

Just the detox from being on tour and and I get it, you know when I go home the last thing I want to do is pick up my phone and not get room service Hmm Spanking is a very controversial topic with people it is with a lot of other people don't believe it's Ever justified in anywhere You know, I'm kind of on the fence about that. I think there's a fine line between spanking someone and beating them Yeah, you know and it's like

When I lived in Florida when I was a kid. I got paddled once it's cool Yeah, we to hit you at school you to me and this kid got in a fight and we both went to the principal's office You got a slot and we got one swap on the butt and it hurt Yep it hurt and it was humiliating. It was humiliating that a man like makes you bend over and wax you on the ass

I don't think it was good though. I don't think it's a smart thing and I don't think they do it anymore but You know, I get what they were trying to do they had order but guarantee that they definitely had order in the class because of that That threat of paddling was real right

Well, I guess the motive behind it is is what's important if you discipline with anger then you're not disciplining because discipline is supposed to be Conjunction of discipline And teaching so if you're disciplining your child you're supposed to teach him you're not supposed to hit him So one of the things I've always said anybody asked me about you know advice for parents I always say kiss your wife can I tell you love her don't ever Discipline your kids and anger and

Kids need structure and they think that spanking is still good. Do you still believe in it? Do I like if you were to do it all over again if I spank kids?

Well, it depends on what it's about you know electric never got spanked so I mean she was a child that could be reason to us and and justice only got like I said spanked a couple times and and You know he was There was a lot of stuff that was going on behavioral stuff that that justice was struggling with because I wasn't there so I know that The family dynamic really needs to have two parents there I mean that it takes a village thing that quote whatever the saying idiom cliche up at that

It's true you need to have more than just one person parenting you need you need help sometimes because the parents will get Exhausted and overwhelmed and sometimes you need someone to just step in for a second and say I got this You know think people are missing the village these days, you know There used to be a thing where people would help with each other's children as well You need children would learn from other parents as well the other men in the tribe, you know

Yeah, and and if the dad couldn't handle a boy then another dad would come along and find out what the interests were and you know What was that? Lightning geez. Yeah, that was loud

They agree. Yeah, they agree to spoken You know just just to come alongside people, you know for me I think part of the only reason that I made it was because I did have people come alongside and did have them Speaking to my life, you know, and it's it is difficult when you've got someone who's not your dad or your mom You know trying to tell you how to do things you want to say you're not my dad Well, that's one of the things that really helps young men with martial arts is to find

These figures these male Senseis and martial arts instructors and that they look up to that that have like great morals and ethics and and talk about things in front of class And when you're a kid and you admire your instructor so much and it's it's such an important role model and such an important

Authority figure right that has a great benefit on kids too in terms of like ability to Recognize the importance of discipline and and and being able to do things that make that person proud of your behavior Right and the way you conduct yourself and also your work ethic right right right?

I might work as I could change tremendously once I started working with Sensei Benny, you know Also my ability to be able to tolerate people when when they would say stuff to me That I didn't want to necessarily hear you know because before You know people would say sit down and I would sit down, but on the inside I was standing up, you know and and Nowadays it's like I I don't need to be in the front row I can I can enjoy the show just as much from the second or third row

Don't you think that benefit that comes from martial arts training also is in the exertion itself There's something about the explosive nature of martial arts like hitting the bag hitting pads sparring all that stuff It exhausts all this need for aggression that a lot of young men

Unfortunately have like in our genes right right what you can get that out and it makes you a more reasonable polite person Yeah, yeah, I just was talking to justice when we were coming back from class the other day He's just started training with Professor Reggie's gonna his first stripe so he's really excited about it And and I said see the thing son is that you never know who you're gonna come across who's gonna have?

More knowledge than you and right now you know that as a white belt with even just one stripe You really don't know very much at all and that You never know when you're gonna come across somebody who may look like they're just somebody that you can push around And you say the wrong thing and just like that one fighter down in Brazil who had tragically lost his life I can't remember what his name list but professor Reggie was talking about Oh, yeah, that's a terrible terrible story

Yeah, I mean that's the reality of violence right and avoid it whenever possible Absolutely, and I really do believe that for young men in particular that it's great to find some sort of an outlet In that way where you can express all those Other anger and all the shit that just comes with being a man You can you can get that out in training and it makes you so much more reasonable in regular life, right? It's a giant benefit

How did you want to purting your neck? Is that from music from it was from head banging? Yeah, I'd been head banging for so long. I got to gender just disease in my neck and then I have there's two forms of

Stinosis denosis. There's the one where the bone closes in on the nerve And then the other one where the nerves swells up inside of the hole Hmm, so I have both of those and and they were gonna do I think it's called a fremenectomy or something like that A frenectomy or something where they go back in and they bore a hole around the nerve and I Was in an emergency room and I was It was right near my birthday and and we were supposed to play Yankee Stadium with the big four and

I couldn't move my arm it had frozen and I went in and the guy said you need emergency surgery right now You're probably not gonna walk again. So I said okay, and I told my manager at the time this guy named Mark Adelman We were managed by Irving Ace-Offs group up in Hollywood and and He called up and told Metallica's management and that I needed emergency surgery on my spiner that I wouldn't be able to Probably play or walk again and the guy called me a pussy and I thought oh boy

Jesus Christ, yeah bad manager. Yeah, so oh my god. I am They gave me a shot. They fixed me up. I flew out there I drove to the stage in a golf cart with a neck brace on all of the stage There was a paper that said don't head bang because my neck was barely holding on and then I went home and I went to Santa Marina Del Rey I should say and had my my neck fused together

Took a long time. I still have that neck brace. I need it from time to time because you know My neck kind of leans forward a little bit all the head banging stuff has made these muscles in here really Disproportionate because they had to go through the front in order to get to the bone here and this muscle in the front Much like a corset So they pulled it aside and this side had to come across farther because they had to go in here

So when all these muscles grew back they kind of grew in sideways and then they had to grow over so there's all this You know weird stuff these two lines coming down right here are Byproduct of trying to stretch a lot You know and I don't mind about getting old, but I do mind getting stiff Do you do exercises for your neck to compensate for it? What do you do? Yeah?

Well, I have a couple things I have a Traction device that you stick your head and you sit down and it pulls it up and then I've got a rack that you lay on and your neck It's lived that way. I've got another rack that you put on and you pump it up and the front goes there Yeah, and then I got another one that I Got one it was guns like you have at the front door the hypergun hypervote gun. Yeah, those are very helpful

Very helpful. Yeah. Yeah, so have you ever done stem cell therapies on your neck at all? Not yet. No yet. I've been trying to see what's gonna happen with Where we're at if you know With my whole situation with cancer before I start taking one anymore

Surgery is raising have you ever used a device called the iron neck have you ever heard of that? Never heard it It's a what the good thing about it is you're not articulating those discs You're not moving them and but it still strengthens your neck You put it on your head like a halo and it has a bungee cord that attaches off the halo and you vary the amount of tension On the bungee cord based on like the position you are in relationship to where it's connected

So if you pull back further, it's more tension. You're just using your head like this No, you don't bend your hand back and forth at all you turn it sideways like that's there it is right there See that thing like there? We'll give you one we have one here if you want it Yeah, so what you do is you pull see so see how his muscles are engaged Yeah, and then he's gonna turn to his right shoulder and turn to his left shoulder and as you do that It strengthens the muscles on the neck

But without bending your neck forward and back so if you have you know from head banging I'm sure those that area gets irritated very easily yeah bending forward and back in the back is hot So what this does is it strengthens your neck while it's in a straight posture So you do this and this with the lawn so it's strengthening the neck

But it's see how he's using it see there. Oh, yeah, see that's actually right here at the on a gym That's here in Austin So as he's doing that the tension on the actual halo itself you vary so in the beginning like you could do it very easily And build up to it and then eventually you can get it to where see that thing as you adjust that little dial that red dial Is it like a TRX 2 where you lean and out and creases to yes Yes, yes, yes, and also because it's a bungee cord

It's a direct connection to the the amount of tension. It's just directly proportionate to how far you pull it backwards Yeah, it's great. So see how he's doing this. That's they call that the Stevie Ray Or the Ray Charles rather excuse me from that Ray Charles so as you cuz you know Ray Charles used to move his head like that So as he's doing that he's strengthening all the muscles in his neck But he's not putting undue stress in a forward in the backward way

Yeah, there's a bunch of different exercise you can do with it. This video's online We'll give you one of those it'll help you but thank you when anybody has a fucked up neck I always have a lot of advice because I've gone through a lot of shit with my neck and

Luckily figured out ways to strengthen it and make it much better But that's just sort of a common thread in jujitsu so many people in jujitsu wind up with fucked up discs You know the first the first couple of months that I trained I had so many injuries I sprained my right elbow and then I had ribs on both sides that got Separated pretty but they didn't break. I don't think they I don't know what happened to them But they hurt a lot of times you get the tear between the two ribs as you know

They get pushed forward and you get injuries inside the ribs. That's really common I was just say when I started I was you know obviously not in great health and and Not very flexible either so I think a lot of that happened when you know We were doing some tosses and I would grab on cuz I didn't want to fly into the air I wasn't comfortable hitting them at yet. I don't know you used to do that with with You kid of car all the time. I you know, I just got out of it and I'd forgotten so

It's also age my brother. Yeah, it is Cocoon yeah, father time beats us all. Yeah, there's no events or butts about that But I love the fact that you mean we were 58 when you started jujitsu Somewhere around I think so yeah, that's about 57 maybe and you've got to purple belt which means you can get the black belt Yeah, once you get the purple belt you can get the black belt. Yeah, it's just a matter of time and effort and you know

It's the hump chewing white and blue. That's the big hump. That's what professor Reggie told me He said that most people created that part right there and I was thinking God that's the part where I'm the most angry that I want to get through You know and I've since changed my mind because I looked back and I remember since a Benny saying you don't digest you just You and I said what do you mean he goes you gobble you just you you don't digest the material and I'm like okay

Okay, I'm slowing down now because I just wanted to train every day with him and he would say no You need to take a day off you need to take two days off whatever So well, there's a thing in learning white belt technique in particular with any kind of martial art It's very important to learn it correctly Because you can learn bad paths and then those paths even if you get past them when you get tired when you get fatigued or when you're under stress

You'll revert to your earliest teachings. Yeah to the bad damage. Yeah I when I was teaching Taekwondo I had a really hard time trying to teach people that had learned something the wrong way already Yeah, so they they threw kicks

But they didn't have the right amount of power because they weren't using their hips properly So I try to like express like you've got to there's a way to articulate your hips You're not doing that you're just kicking with your leg and they when they get tired or when just flap it out there Or they get nervous if they're competing they would it would just fall apart and then go right back to the earliest teaching which is

Really to me ingrained early on in my mind you got to learn something right the first time. Yes, you don't want to unlearn shit It's very hard like you're talking about guitar. It's very hard for people to unlearn like once you learn something You I guess the guitar doesn't really matter because some of the greats like Hendrix I think didn't he learn wasn't he self-taught as well, you know, I don't know and I'm not exactly sure but

God, I didn't know you're such a big hendrickson. Oh love him. That's why his posters of them everywhere When I was a kid I just was blown away when I would when I I don't remember what the first song I listened to but the sounds that this guy was making with his guitar

I was like this is insane. Yeah, yeah It's like and as I was saying before about music one of the things that's so fascinating to me is that It's your someone's expressing their creativity through these sounds and these sounds literally change the way you feel They they do something to you that just excites all of your nerves and all of your sensations to this point where it's it's A great song that comes on at the right time is an amazing drug

Really it's a drug that your mind produces based on someone else's creativity. Picat. Oh, yeah Yeah, that's why I named this the Joe Rogan experience. It's based on the Jim Oh That's excellent. Yeah, it just it seemed like the only name for it at the time But uh perfect. Yeah We're very fortunate and especially today that you know someone can tell you about a song and you can have access to it almost instantaneously

You know and just pull it up on your phone and then bam next thing. You know you're listening to it in your car It's like it's a wild time for the consumption of other people's work whoever thought Captain Kirk would have all that stuff on his wrist at one day go to Screw Captain Kirk. What about Dick Tracy with the yeah watch that

Calling Dick Tracy calling that was so impossible now. It's a hundred percent normal. No kidding Yeah, so many people out there with Apple watch I have friends that wear an Apple watch when they go out and they don't even bring their phone They just have like earphones like earbuds

Yeah, so they put earbuds on and they'll talk through their goddamn Apple watch. Yeah. Yeah, you know I that's one of the things I can't stand is going out to dinner with people and they sit on their phone across from you

It's a bummer. Well, I think my one of my friends who does it says that this makes me not look at my phone I'm not looking at my phone, but if someone needs to call me I could still talk to them on my on my watch Which that's justification of abuse it is but it's at least he's not like on Instagram

Yeah, check it Facebook all day like you're he's just using the watch and making phone calls and stuff It's probably a little better right if you're only getting phone calls and text messages through your watch Yeah, you ever do that Jamie you ever leave the house with no phone just the watch Then I eat running like if I go in a runner exercise and do you ever like make phone calls or talk to people when you're doing that?

Yeah, and it's actually coming really handy one time I have my phone fell out of my pocket and someone's car and I was like oh fuck how do I get a hold of them? Uh Hopefully this watch thing works like oh the first time you used it. I call it a hey man Uh, my come back Yeah, my shit

Do you ever get on social media? Do you do any of that? I we had the very first website back in 1994 when content extinction came out wow no one used an Asia came out and it was called mega death, Arizona And we had the first chat room I really yes, I remember being immersed in my

In every waking moment of my life when I came out there was a guy named Charles who was the webmaster and we were in tell net and and All that fucking sounds my The modem sounds yeah, and and so we We were so far ahead of everybody else gene Simmons even said hey, man I want one of those band website things like mega death dose Wow, so yeah, we had the first website and and we've tried to always be at the forefront with our our band with

You know what we're doing on this record is no different. We have NFTs and there we're gonna be releasing with our fans. Do you understand NFTs? Yeah, I do and we tell me well I have something for you. Oh very special gift for you. Yeah, well now that I think about it It's I was thinking about something else because I've had some little souvenirs and stuff from touring over there So I have a little teeny thing from the handex experience. I was thinking about

Send it down here to put up on the wall or something. Oh, fuck it. I would love that Yeah, it might not be as cool as your other things you got here. It'll be fucking cool. Shit. Yeah, but The other thing what we talking about the other What was the other thing we were talking about just no not to hang in the your website. We're talking about social media

It's social media. Yeah, yeah, okay, so in the beginning. I did I did the Twitter stuff I you know, we were very very very active with mega death, Arizona Which was our chat room and then we had mega desk calm and then we had what was called The diner was what they called the chat room with with mega death, Arizona and That lasted for a while then there was some woman who said she invented it all and and We we kind of said look we don't want to be part of this website over here

We want to take mega desk calm and and we want you to let us Free, you know, because the label was basically doing the the website domain hosting at the time and I knew the future of the web I knew what was going on with you know, it was a beginning Internet and Now that we're on the cusp of web 3.0

You know with cyber currency and cryptocurrency. I mean and with the NFTs, you know, we've got our Um, our NFTs are going to be launching September 13th, which is going to be my birthday consequently and we also have A lot of things that are membership oriented where all you need is a little mega death coin to Hang on to and it gives you access to all kinds of other really cool things like meet and greets concerts

Early ticketing or a different merchandise. Nobody else is going to get so and with an unfonchable tokens We We're it's it's so involved with Everything all I can tell you right now is I've looked at other people's NFTs that they have and I think I think we're a little bit farther ahead from other people with their NFTs, you know

The board yacht ape club or the board apiat club. How do you say it was was really A cool kind of thing in the beginning and and it's taken on a life all of its own and and then you know You look at the NFTs that Aussie did the crypto bats, you know a lot of people liking because it's eight bit And it looks like it's you know old old school Atari kind of stuff, you know Um, but I think that when you do something like that you also run the hazard if you will have Um, somebody saying

Not doing it somebody else is doing it for you. So we try and be as authentic as possible and make sure that we know what we're doing We know we're talking about and we know how it's going to benefit the fans I think people really like that in terms of like social media too when they find out that someone's posting on social media for you In pretending that they're the band or pretending to use their like media and or whatever people get upset at that Right. Well, I don't post on the mega-debt

Socialists because that's the whole band for my own personal stuff. I do what is your personal account? It's Dave Mustaine. That's it. You know We did this long enough ago where there's no real challenges to the name and the social Services the different ones you're talking about they're Conceal enough I don't know if this right word but to work with us and make sure that you know Hey, you got some imposters got Dave's name out there. It's not like you know Buck O'Han's where everybody you know

Right Dave Mustaine is pretty distinctive. It is it's one hard to find another guy like that out there Yeah, so so that's That's one of the things you know The thing I'm most excited about right now is is what we're gonna be doing with with the whole Web 3.0 experience for fans

But I don't want to see this turn into an isolation kind of thing with the fans you know to get into The web 3.0 stuff and put on their anocular surveillance and start Uh, going into this world and and not coming up, you know But in the same token it's also gonna be exciting to see who's going to be able to pull off the first legit viable Authentic concert in in in that

virtual. Yeah, in real short because I mean, you know you look at a lot of it and and stuff that people are doing like the hologram stuff That was going and everybody was saying like holograms two pops your core Elvis. Oh my god. Are you kidding? Right, but then when you get there in the concert and you see it. It's a little bit wanted Well also two-pop will look like a cross-fitter like they made it a little too vain

They didn't really duplicate two-pock's body. They made two-pock super jacked. Oh Of course. No, I didn't oh let's pull it up because it's really interesting because like two-pock was always like a thin healthy guy But in this it looked like he had done a cycle to a weight pile. Yeah, and started fucking hitting hitting look at that I mean come on That dude looks like come on. Oussman look at his six pack. That's incredible look how jacked he isn't that photo down there Jamie

Look at that. Which one's real? Oh, that's that's the fake two-pock, but he's pretty skinny But the real two-pock did not look like that. It wasn't that and that's it. That's a hologram look how jacked he is that's not fair Because like if you were gonna bring back Hendrix and make Hendrix look like a bodybuilder people would be like what are you doing? I mean look at that look how jacked he is That's like a legitimate 20 pounds heavier than two-pock really wasn't real life

That's crazy. That's the first time I saw that I didn't think really that I thought it was gonna look like you know R2D2 Right like what if they put brought biggie back, but they made him look like Mike Tyson Yeah, we're like come on man. That's not a biggie look like no you can't be vain. That's the real two-pock See he's pretty fit thin. Yeah, he's pretty like in the right hand corner that one next to that Jamie Yeah, me, he's in that's on him. That's on him. That's from a movie

So that's not him. Yeah, the pictures are getting confused. What is that? That's an actor. Oh Wow, he looks a lot like two-pock sure did so that's him. Okay, so that's perfect. Look at that So he's thin he's got six pack going on, but I mean does not nearly the bulk the the fake one was just super jacked That's that's him for real life. He's pretty good shape. Yeah, yeah, but like you know thin like a thin boxer

You know, like someone who's fit for sure. Yeah, but not like fucking super jacked like that hologram dude If I saw the hologram I'd be like damn man. I wish I looked like that for real. Yeah getting shape man time to get in shape

Yeah, there's the hologram me the hologram is fucking jacked. Yeah But it's the virtual world World to me what's interesting about that is people that don't have access to your concerts can't go I would like it as is like a supplement thing it'd be fucking amazing if you had a virtual reality concert where someone Could sit there in like the second row and see people in front of me It feels real and they get to see you guys actually perform their actual real high definition video of you there

But in a virtual space where you can move around and actually watch you right in front of them. That's an amazing experience So you're saying like set up some of those 360 cameras in the second row and have people go look around Yeah, that sounds totally doable. I know CZ top is doing that when they were filming themselves live But you know some CZ top isn't a really high energy band. You would need a real live crowd too though

Mm-hmm. I would think you need to like do one of your real concerts and have like people with the cameras in the crowd Yeah, it feels like you're there. Yeah, you know we we want a clear award for having the best virtual reality performance

It wasn't about the virtual reality performance. It was the best business idea and And this company is known for giving out awards to Honda to Paul Mollive to Proctor and Gamble and stuff like that and and we got the award because the forward and extra cerebral thought process that comes from our brain trust and doing a 360 degree virtual reality concert where they came they got the

Is that this right here? Yeah, they got the CD package and the CD package came with the the helmet that you had to wear and What you would do is you would slide your cell phone into this helmet and then you could go through here while we were playing and you could get any position that you wanted to to watch how we were playing from there That's amazing. This is some of the songs that had Cortet in it. So that helmet. Does this 25,000 units world?

Why are these helmets is that what that's saying? That's a CD and the app. I can't remember if how many of these things there were but we had That's the thing right there. I was hoping yeah, it doesn't matter what kind of camera Wow, no, I think it was this I think it was a droid Bright a lot of the mirror and droids. Yeah, that's like Samsung has there was there was that's They were just showing you how to make it show that again Jamie

Right there. So this is the box you take it out You open up and was this like a specific droid that would do this was because I know Samsung had a thing Well, when you would buy their phones. Yeah, that's it and you'd put the the lens in there was that wasn't that what Samsung was doing for a while, Jamie? Do you remember that they had a thing that came with one of their galaxy phones that was like a sort of a headset type deal

Yeah, they'll been like the Oculus has no right all that stuff, but yeah, right. Yeah, there was an option for that for sure Yeah, but they I don't think they do it anymore though, right? Not because yeah, Oculus is so good. So do you guys have this available for things like Oculus and That version I think it sold out. I don't think to make anymore though. So it was a limited edition Have you thought about doing that for like HTC Vive or Oculus or any of these platforms that do virtual reality?

Yeah, I did the very first interview of the Oculus ever did they came to my house in fall brick and the guy brought a duck taped together um prototype of the camera and gave me the headset and I put that in and and the very first scene that I ever saw was a dog walker walking dogs down the beach in San Diego because the guy had just gone there Before he came to my house

Any film some dog walkers and I thought this is the coolest thing ever and I think you might be able to find it online They show this picture of me by my pond and my house we used to have in fallbrook It's a beautiful beautiful place, but the picture made it look like five times as big It was really amazing and seeing the Oculus Rift thing in its beginning stages. You know, I didn't really have a lot of What my desire wanting to pursue this I knew it was something neat. I knew it was cool

But you know, he told me that the guy from doom. I think it was John Carmack. Yeah, he's gonna get involved in that and he put like $75 million or something into the company and and You know because I wanted to get on on that too and and I don't know whatever happened You know, we talked I did some press for them and the next thing you know, we've we've got this opportunity to do the Performance we went in a word gone now run to the next thing there's a

A lot of really cool things you can do those Oculus now and one that you might enjoy as a martial artist is they have boxing games Oh really? Yeah, they're great and it's a surprisingly good workout Mm-hmm because you hold the hand things and then you put the helmet on and then you're in this ring with like this virtual box Or this cartoon boxer and every time they hit you with a jab your your vision lights up. Oh wow

Like you got a sensory. Yeah, it's really cool. It doesn't hurt. You know obviously, but you you get the sense like oh my god

It there's multiple games. It's not fight camp is Oculus Rift. No fight camp is different fight camp is pretty cool too Fight camp is great if fight camp is essentially like a Peloton but with combat sports so you have like sensors that are on the the heavy bag and you have sensors that are in your gloves And then you follow along with a video that will tell you what to do and it's it's great because it like forces you to do what they're doing

And you know, you don't work out to your pace. Yeah, you work out to a trainer's pace But these games there's more than one there's a ton of them. There's a ton of them for archery ton of them for other things too that are that are fun to do but the the boxing one

It's a particularly good workout like I was I was surprised. I was like oh my god. I'm cast out Which is crazy because you're really going after it with this and you're not hitting anything Which is actually sometimes when you're moving fast is harder because nothing's absorbing your shot

So since nothing's absorbing your shot you have to kind of like slow it down yourself You know, so the as you're throwing these punches you can move around because you're doing it pretty fast You're not doing it just like you're just shadow boxing and moving in front of a mirror You're doing it where you're trying to hit this thing that's hitting you And so as you hit it it registers like you see like as your gloves touch it it reacts to it. So it feels

You don't hit anything, but it feels like yeah, this is one of them. There's many of them though But so you can actually duck under punches and move around It recognizes where you are in 3d space because the playing areas map out so you map it out on the floor and if you walk past those ropes it would like give you a like a like a red Screen that shows you that you're you're fucking up and you're in the wrong spot It's really fun, but it's good for for people for a workout

You know, it gives you it's a game that you play that's yeah, here you go. See you got a guy doing it You know, I got one of raging bulls boxing gloves. Oh really? Yeah, I'm on it when it shake limo as boxy gloves Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got I got a picture of him signing it to oh, that's very cool. Yeah, when did you meet him?

I when I first came to Nashville there was a boxing match that they had The celebrity boxing match in this attorney fought this other attorney and I thought good killed both of you Yeah, Jake Lamada. Wow, that's pretty cool. Yeah, Doug Stan. Hope you's to party with him He was living in bizby Arizona for a while and these photos of Doug Stan was a brilliant comedian

Hmm good friend mine and he lives in bizby Arizona. He says names Doug stand up stand hope. Oh stand hope. Yeah, I said say what a great comedy name Yeah, I would be suspicious. I'd be like let me see your birth. You know birth certificate. Bitch. Here it is Jake Lamada smoking cigarettes. Oh my god. I'm not great Drink a little time. Wow, he's 150,000 years old in this picture. Yeah, everybody is really young dead I mean Ray Robinson long gone. Yeah, from that era

The golden years. It was a great year. Yeah, great great time rather for fighters I mean not it's not so great for their health, but man those guys fought When I was a kid I used to have these little plastic models that you would make you know like the Revelle ones and You know, they make like cars and the talent Revelle was Revelle was the name of the car like a glue together model Yes, yes, yes, and I remember having this one model where it was half of a boxing ring and it was uh Gene Bell and

Jack tonny. Oh, yeah sure jack tonny. I think that's what it was. It was a real old boxing match This is like back in the 60s when I was a kid doing this and I thought it was the neatest thing because I'd never seen any

Models and boxers before yeah, you know, so that's cool. I don't know why I thought of that But I just I remember distinctly now seeing the two fighters and yeah, they even make those anymore No, they don't like them for kids because they sniff the glue probably not yeah That glues toxic did is that should stare before you always used as a kid I had one of those tie always use glue. Yeah, I always did a lot of models when I was a kid I had like when I was a kid one of those tie fighters those

Star Wars things right right next time. Yeah, there was always a bunch of like cool little models cars He's always put together model cars. That was a thing. Yeah, remember the guy that did the the bug out kind of hot rods, you know the guy with the big big

The eyes and bloodshot eyes. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever's called. Yeah, yeah That was the stuff that I used to make too when we were Making models was a lot of those Like how could they call it the snake and the mongoose dragsters and yeah and boot heel expressed they had all these crazy Cars that were like Mattel cars too. That was really fun. Are you into cars? Yeah, I am. Yeah, I've got

I did some foreign car mechanic work when I was younger. Oh, yeah I just did R&R stuff remove and replace and and mostly on English cars and mostly triumphs where you had to take the clutch out and In order to get the clutch out of those things you had to take the whole front You're down with your feet are the whole console out of the car and then go under the car that way and I thought Surely these guys are making me do this the hardest way possible

You know, so what kind of cars you into now? Well, I have English stuff my wife and I both have a Range Rover She's got a Bentley and I have an Aston Martin and and my daughter She has a Range Rover justice I gave him an Aston and he traded it for a Raptor which I think A lot of people would say he's nuts, but I think here in Texas and a lot of people would probably say they understand those things are fucking great

Yeah, they are yeah, they are but why English cars? Why so in English cars? Well, I don't know I used to hate English cars and and I had Mercedes for pretty much all my driving adulthood And I had a manager at one point he said yeah, you should just get an Aston Martin and I said really And that was the one after Pierce Bronson who I thought was the the worst James Bond of all

Um, who's the best huh? Who's the best James Bond of all? I think now because I've been able to see some living breathing James Bond's I thought Daniel Craig was good I thought I thought Sean Connery was cool until I found out that he likes to smack his ex wife around or whatever

Um, you know, everybody's got skeletons in their closet and it's better not to even hear about it And you know when I find out stuff like that it's so disappointing, you know, that's what they say never meet your heroes Mm-hmm Yeah, I think Daniel Craig was the most believable of all the James Bond like I believe he was an assassin That made sense to me look like it fit the role. He was a so so artificial right, you know

Yeah, well, it's also a product of the times right like during the Roger Moore days. It was like more silly Like James Bond was silly, you know, it was like half of the it was comedy. Yeah, it was all the Smarmie talk and yeah silly one-writers. Yeah catch phrases in the Daniel Craig era it was like more a realistic action movie not necessarily realistic that first movie when he started off on that crane

Mm-hmm. I was hooked Yes, you know what he could have been dead right there and I would watch the rest of the movie. I love it So great. Yeah, well listen Dave. Uh, I chewed up three hours of your time I appreciate you being here. I hope so too. I appreciate you being here though Great to hear your story and it's great to meet you finally. It's cool So thank you very much for everything you're welcome. I have something I want to give you all right

Well, thank you for that too, and uh, that's it. All right. Thank you. Bye everybody