What Do You Really Sell

Welcome to the Jody Mayberry Show. This episode, I am so happy to introduce you to Teddy Cheek. Teddy is the senior director of marketing at the Escape Game. Teddy, it is so good to have you on the show finally. What's up, Jody? I know. This is so fun. I'm excited about it. I say finally because Teddy and I have known each other for years now. I don't even remember how many. I'm I'm gonna guess and say six, but it could be longer than

that. I don't know. I think it's in that range. That sounds about right. Yeah. So Lee and I have done many years ago, we we did an episode of creating Disney Magic, highlighting the escape game and the great work they do there. And then since then, we did another project with the escape game during the pandemic. That was fun. But the coolest

of all, I got to go to Nashville, visit Teddy, get a tour of the facilities, and see where the magic happens. My goodness. Where the stories are created, and then where they're built, and then got to see the backstage of the escape game while it's in action. That was so fun, Teddy. Oh, that was awesome. Yeah. We call it the adventure factory. It's outside of Nashville. It's 80,000 square feet, and it's full of architects,

engineers, scenic artists, game designers. And if you need a shot of inspiration, you know, if you're having a a day and you're like, I need some inspiration, you just go walk around there. It's incredible. Yeah. There's so much talent and they're working on awesome stuff. You know, in one corner, they're building, like, a really neat missile, and in the other, they're making trees or something for a spaceship, and it's all

happening at once. And it's it's really neat. I think my favorite part of senior facilities, the adventure factory was really neat. The one spot that might have been just a little bit cooler was where they actually develop the stories and understand how it fits together. That just fascinated me to see where they're taking ideas. And I don't remember which one they were working on, but when I was there, they were developing an idea that would

eventually become a room. And that was really neat to see because I imagine there there's got to be so much creativity to not only develop a story, but turn the story into an experience. Yeah. Those game the game design team is small and mighty. There's just a few of them and they eat and breathe. They they love game creation. And they're so creative. And you can throw the wildest stuff at them and we have through the years. And they'll just turn

it around. I'll give you an example. A couple of weeks ago, I said, Hey, I just talked to the Jonas Brothers team at American Dream Mall where we are. They're doing a big event. I wanna do, like, a custom game, and they'll come surprise fans in the game if we do something custom. Can you do an overlay of one of our games that's, like, full of Easter eggs and surprises for the fans? And one of them was like, I love the Jonas Brothers. I'm on it.

And so they created this game with so many clever puzzles that the fans like, I got to watch them engage with it. It was amazing. And then they came and installed it overnight one night. And then the next day, we were taking Jonas Brothers fans in the games and just watching them interact with it. And there's so many, like, subtle nods to their music through the years that the fans were just dying over. They loved

it. Oh, how fun. I did not even realize that that it just speaks to the team you have at the escape game that you can pull that off. Very cool. If you have not done an escape room I know there are a lot of different brands that put them on. The escape game, in my opinion, is the best. They do a phenomenal job, but it is a room where you have to solve puzzles and clues and mysteries

to eventually escape. And I remember you telling me, Teddy, when we were there that one of the tricks to developing these is it has to be hard enough that not everybody gets out. Otherwise, it's not fulfilling to enough people. Right. There needs to be suspense. And it can't all be manufactured. Like, there has to be, you could win or you can lose. And one of the things we one of the taglines I use is, you might escape, you will have fun. So I'm

gonna guarantee you the fun. And we're going to present these games with a lot of hospitality for our guests. We're really a hospitality company more than anything. But the challenges are real, and you may or may not escape. But you hinted at just the right amount of difficulty. There's good and there's bad frustration. And we look for that. Like, we're trying to calibrate these games. So it's like you watch the people trying to

solve the puzzle, and it's a little frustrating. And what is it? What is it? And then it leads to a great moment. You don't want to just make it so hard for the sake of being hard that it's not fun. And you just sit in there frustrated, and you don't feel like you're progressing. Like, the games seem to have little wins along the way. Like, maybe even if I didn't escape, I had all these moments where I solve little things along the way, and that still feels really good. One of the things that we

discovered now I've done an escape game room with my family. I've done what so we had one where you may remember, you said, let's get Lee Cochran in one. So a few of I got Lee to do it and a few of us went. And it was it was a difficult one. Luckily for us, we had a someone who designed roller coasters with us and and he figured out the most difficult parts. But this is what I

have found. It is very rare that one person takes charge and solves everything that whatever your team is, there there is each person has a different skill set that is going to come in handy at some point to get you out of that room. Yeah. That's part of the magic of the way our game designers think is there there really is something for everyone, and something will just completely stump, you know, a a graduate student and then, like, a child walks up and gets it.

Gotta think that's fun to see. So there's just a lot of different kinds of challenges, and it and it does take a team. But our main goal is that the games are accessible. We're not building these just for experienced escape room players that have played a hundred, and they're just looking for the hardest challenge. Like, we want these to be accessible. So they're they've got a great challenge, and there's a wide variety of types of puzzles, but there's something for everybody. And that's

something we, in particular, really wanted to do when we opened because, you know, escape games started in Asia and Europe. And in Asia, they're really math heavy. There wasn't a lot of storyline to it. And Europe kind of had its own flavor. And so our founders were like, Let's make this really accessible for the masses to get to love this. We wanna see three generations playing a game together, which is unique. And we want, like, the theatrics and the together, which is unique, and we

want, like, the theatrics and the story to be a bigger part. It's not going in a dimly lit room and, like, cracking codes and doing math. It's a lot more to that. You feel like you're more a part of a story. You feel like you're on a spaceship. You feel like you're exploring ancient ruins. It's it's tactile. And it's not just about the hardest puzzles possible, I guess, is where I'm going with that. Yeah. It's true. It's difficult for sure. But there is an element of

adventure to it. And of course, the urgency. We did one in Orlando. I think it was. And I hope I don't spoil a room for anyone. I'm just giving no, no, one little piece of that. I think it was the gold rush one. My kids thought it was amazing when you get to the point where you have to climb through the fireplace. Oh my goodness. They just thought that was amazing. Surprise. And okay. I'm gonna tie it back. So you know the fireplace opens and

there's a slide. Right? And you slide down into the gold mine. That is the moment that we had the Jonas Brothers surprise like, hiding down in the gold mine. And the fans took the slide down and they were just there and they're like, hi. Oh my goodness. That had to buddy, buddy. Gold Rush is a great game. My favorite part of that one is where you have to and I won't give away what the code is, but you have to knock on the tree in a certain

pattern and, like, an acorn falls down with something in it. It's so great. Yeah. How fun. Well, you mentioned that the escape game is a hospitality company, and I wanna explore that idea that you saying that makes me realize you're not just marketing a room that you have to solve puzzles to get out of. What is it that you're actually marketing and selling to people? Yeah. Exactly. And it depends on who the guest is, but the things we offer are, like, an

accessible, fun experience that you're gonna like I said, you might escape. You will have fun. We're selling fun. You know, even team building companies, like, our companies coming for team building, they're coming for fun with the team and for bonding. It's not so much, hey. We're gonna do some serious, serious learning and development. Like, yeah, you can do that too. But, typically, it's fun, whether it's team building or it's a birthday party

or it's a night out with friends. Like, our brand promise you're gonna have a good time, and that's typically what people are looking for. So that's that's the use. So what changes in the way you market or position the escape game, understanding that you're selling fun rather than we're selling you the getting locked in a room and you find your way out? This is a great question. So when I first started here, I wasn't

here right at the beginning of the company. I missed about the first year and a half, but every escape room in The US marketed themselves the same way. The website, everything's dark. It's all mysterious, and you won't be able to solve it. And no one escapes, and no one would show pictures of their rooms because it was all about nobody can know these secrets. We don't wanna give anything away. Don't take your cell phone out in the room. It's not

allowed. We got rules. You're limited to three clues, and so on and so forth. And I said, Guys, our biggest advantage is that our rooms look awesome. We have this game design team. Like, we don't have pictures of them online. The reviews people talk about, hey, this looks really cool. But I immediately, like, hired photographers, started taking pictures, started using them in ads and saying, this is what it looks like. We changed, like, our brand

like, we took it from, like, black and red to using white and black and red and other colors, making it bright and fun, and people are smiling and having a good time and using real pictures of our guests having a good time, and then started messaging differently about phones. We're like, take pictures with your friends and family in there. Like, that's great. And, hey, you can ask for as many hints as you want.

This is your experience. There's no penalties. There's no judgment. It's up to you. We're here to have a good time. So I'm sure there's a little bit of an audience we miss because of that. They're saying, Hey, I want to feel like I'm locked in and I can't get out and there's it's scary and I don't wanna know anything before that like, that's not us. We're not dark. We're not scary. It's fun. It's family friendly. It's for everybody. You can ask for

clues if you want. I even remember it was controversial. I made a decision. We got asked by a pretty large streamer online, like, can I stream the experience? And I was like, yes. Come in. There are you know, tell anybody watching. The 10,000 people are gonna watch you do this live. There are spoilers. But, sure, stream the whole thing. That's great. Let's invite people into this. And so I have zero regrets about that change in direction on marketing. I think it's been helpful for us. How

cool. I I really like that you did that. You look at what other people are doing and say, let's do something different. That it's very Walt Disney in spirit. I like it. One other thing that I really was impressed with with what the escape game did, and I know you played a role in this because we talked a lot during that time in 2020, something happened where you could no longer really do an in person escape room anymore, which you would expect that to have potentially a devastating

impact on a company like the escape game. Your company handled that brilliantly. Do you mind telling us what direction I would love to tell this story. I would I would love to because COVID probably should have killed us. Like, here's what we're offering. Go into an enclosed space, sometimes with strangers, and touch everything. You know, that doesn't with the start of COVID, that didn't sound really attractive to people. And so, you know, I think it was the February 2020. We

started getting some cancellations. We didn't know a lot about COVID. No one did at the time. And we're like, oh, man, we might miss our targets for February. Like, we were we had such momentum. This is this is really disappointing. Little did I know, like, first of all, this call is picked up and picked up, and all these cancellations are getting out of control. But our wildest nightmares, we didn't think we're gonna go to zero revenue overnight. Like, it

just happened so fast. Like, we have to close all of our stores, and we don't have a plan for this. And so that happened, and unfortunately, we had a furlough, like, most of the team, and a couple of us stayed on to, you know, keep the lights on and kinda plan what's next. And I remember we were in a room kinda like this with a conference table and just a few of us that were on and our and our CEO. And I'll

say, our CEO is not the hype man. Like, he doesn't he doesn't have my personality that's like, it's big, and we're gonna be fine, and it's gonna be great. And so it was really extra inspiring for him to look around the room and say, we're not just gonna survive this. We are going to thrive, and someone in this room is gonna have an idea. We're gonna end this year celebrating. And it everybody was, like, super inspired because he when he says it,

he meant it. There was no fluff. You know, this is the real deal. Like, he believes we were gonna do this. So the first thing that happened is one of our founders, Johnny, who's just this wild creative, factory into a face shield factory, and we're gonna get, like, a license to make official face shields and go, go, go, go. And so it it was like a one or two day turnaround. We got to bring some of the warehouse back in and said, okay. We're gonna teach you how to make face shields, and

we have orders for hundreds of thousands of them. So that helped. Now that didn't replace our company revenue, but it definitely

helped us employ some of the team members, like bring them back. And so while that was happening, it bought us a little bit more time. A small group of us was like, Okay, how can we take escape rooms online? And what does that look like? And so we, you know, put someone in an escape room with a camera on their head and said, what does this look like over Zoom? Could this be fun? And we started prototyping a virtual escape room, and it wasn't fun at first. We were, like, getting frustrated, like,

can this be engaging? Can this be entertaining? And we just kept doing reps of it until it turned into something really great for us to release where, you know, you have teams getting on Zoom together and then a game guide in the room with a camera, and you're directing them what to do. Hey, look left, look right, do do a push up. Teams would have fun with it. And we'd also have a host on the call as well there too, like, for hospitality to be your host and show you how everything

works. And we would we build a dashboard where everything you found in the room with your game guide showed up there. And you're like, oh, let me take a look at that. You can enlarge it and see it. And basically, it ended up being something really fun, and it was the right product at just the right time. It absolutely exploded. I mean, it exploded. And suddenly, you know, we were doing team building for companies in Australia and India and all over the world, and it

was, like, more than we can keep up with. Like, we were just trying to scale this up fast and bring people back to work to help with this. And the games were being run out of our stores all over the country, so we're getting to employ some people in Jacksonville and Orlando and New York City and Cal and just all over. And also, we got to do really wild things. Like, companies would come to us and say, hey. Can you do an event

for 500 people at once? And what would happen, they wouldn't even realize how complex this is, but we would put everybody on, like, a giant Zoom call and then split into breakout rooms. And these eight people would be playing Gold Rush in Orlando, like you did, and these eight people are playing The Heist in Chicago, and they don't realize it's like, Hey, we're your flight crew today. We're in Chicago. I'm in an actual escape room in Chicago, and you're gonna direct direct me around. So it just

grew to something amazing. And so that gave us a head start when we could open because we had people employed. We weren't starting from zero. We kept our general managers on at every store the whole time because we said, we're gonna be back. So we took that bet. We're like, we didn't furlough them. Every general manager stays on fully and keeps the relationship with their team that they had and keep communication up. So when the local government and the national

government said, hey. Chicago can open, full schedule. We're ready to rock. Atlanta's ready to open. Let's go. No slowdown. We're ready to rock. And so we kind of have screamed out of COVID. Like, it was wild. And at the same time, we discovered this other thing that kept going. We still do remote games. Not to the level we did before, but we still do the virtual team building now. Lee and I did

one of the virtual ones. You may remember that. And it was done so well because we had a host, so there was hospitality. And then it it wasn't even done in a manner of, hey. We've got this guy, and he's gonna do the escape room for you. There was even a story created around it. Like, he broke in and you got to tell him what to do. Like, it it felt like something special. It didn't feel like, hey, you can't be here in person, so we're gonna do it for you. Your team

did such a good job on it. It it made it a lot of fun. Thank you. I love it. And we're doing later this year, I won't say who, because I want them to be able to announce it, but we're doing a a large virtual event with, like, 10,000 people. And those people are gonna, like, direct the game guide with, like, polls and stuff. We've we've never actually done an event with 10,000 people at once, but it's gonna be cool. Yeah. How neat. And then the other approaches you took with it on making it

going from a team building to making it a learning experience. I know you did something with me and Lee. Did something with Donald Miller. Just how cool to take something that a little while ago was fun, but now you have to figure out, okay, what else do we do with it and what else is possible to do with it? And I was just fascinated by the way your team approached the whole thing. That should have been a kick in

the pants for your company turned out to be such a boost. It was definitely a boost and and maybe our finest hour so far. We'll see see. But it was, I just mean, like, where we really banded together and did something great. So yeah. No. I love telling that story. Yeah. It is. It is a very impressive story. One of the things I would like to talk about while we're lucky enough to have you with us is you referenced earlier how you're not selling, getting locked in a room

and escaping. You're selling fun and therefore you approach it different. Given your experience and expertise in that, can you talk to us a bit about rethinking no matter what business we're in, rethinking what it is we sell and how to approach it differently? Sure. I

think that the only way to start that process is talking to as many guests as possible in person. Like, I've always been big on doing interviews with our guests and being in stores and talking to them and, like, hey, what do you like about it? You know, what what could be better? And so those conversations lead me to these decisions. And so it's hard to say, hey. There's a one size

fits all for that. It's just getting in there and actually having those conversations and hearing people say, like, I like that you offer unlimited hints, and you didn't penalize me like other companies. I'm like, oh, well, I'm gonna market the fact that we do that more because that seems like a big thing. Or they say, Oh, your games have multiple rooms. I've played others where you just go in one

room and go out. So I'm like, Okay. That feels like a factor I need to focus on is, Hey, there's multiple rooms to explore in every game to kinda show the expanse of it. So I think it's about talking to your guests. And for me, it's not necessarily, you know, being different for the sake of being different. I mean, there's there's a place for that for sure. It's also understanding your category and being clear, like, not going so far the other way. Like, we're still an escape game.

You're still solving puzzles to get out. And that's the hook. That's the hook is, can you escape this room? Like, we're not too far from that still, even though I talked about some other things. Like, if we and I think we made a mistake at one point, like our messaging guides and stuff in the store. I would hear a team member say someone would walk in and say, Hey, is this an escape room? And they'd say or, How does it work? They'd say, Yeah, you're going to go on an adventure, and you're going

to have a mission, and this and that, and it's cinematic and that. And they'd say, oh, I thought this was an escape room. Never mind. You know, kind of thing. So while you wanna maybe be different based on what you're hearing from your guests, like, you don't need to be opposite of the rest of your category just for the sake of being different. Yeah. Well, I'm gonna use an example here locally. I live in a small town. There are two auto parts stores, and one of them

approaches it as in we sell auto parts. If you need something, come in and get it. Need wipers, come and get them. Need a light bulb. Come and get it. But the other approach is it much different, like, oh, we're here to help you keep your car maintained. They don't say that. But you feel that when you go in, it's not, hey, here's your item. Let's do this transaction. They ask questions. They're friendly. They will tell you different

options. For example, I got a headlamp recently and instead of just saying headlamps are in that aisle, it is, well, Okay, what do you what do you want out of your headlamp? And I'm like, to illuminate the road. He's like, Okay, but we've got three choices. So it depends on what you want. And I'm like, I didn't even know this was a thing. Tell me more. And it just feels different. I feel like one took the approach of, oh, we're not just providing you your auto parts. We're actually helping

you maintain your car in the way that that you want. I'd have to think about it to figure out what exactly they're doing, but there is a clear difference. So I think that's probably in the same line of what you're doing. And I mentioned what you do is in the spirit of Walt Disney, and I'm sure you've heard the stories of he got the idea from a carnival, but he said we are not going to be a carnival. Yes. Exactly. Yeah.

I love that. Yeah. Well, I think the escape game, the work that you're doing, there is so much wrapped into it because I love the creative, innovative side of how they're developed. I love the hospitality side of what you do. I've been to Orlando twice, Nashville once, And every time it's just so welcoming. The team is so nice. And then the marketing side, the way you position yourself as in, hey, you're going to have fun, you're going to have an adventure. It's really good. I just

like the work that you're doing. Now, the other side of what you do is getting the message out there. So I'm going to take Orlando. You're at ICON Park. There are at least twenty, twenty five other options of something to do at ICON Park. Sure. How do you approach that to say, okay, we're going in a location where we know you have two dozen other choices. What do you do to make me wanna come and see you? Yeah. Big piece of it's reviews. I'd say that's helpful

because people do shop for things to do. Like, even if they know there's 25, they're looking for things to do in and around ICON Park. Like, they're gonna look at reviews, and they're gonna also read what listicles, like, review sites, listicles bloggers are having to say. So good reviews, good relationships with people that that write lists and things online go go a long way. Also, a lot of the traffic is actually people looking for just escape rooms in

Orlando. And so, you know, important to have great SEO.

The reviews factor in there as well. So And you want people to view it as a great value of time versus money. There's a lot you can do in Orlando that's $40 for ten, fifteen minutes. So the $40 for an hour is a pretty good deal. And we offer something, as far as value goes, pretty unique. Like you're gonna have the whole room to yourself. You know, the eight people that book that room, you're gonna have the full room and the intention of a team

member on our team. So I think we're pretty unique in the attraction space. Yeah. And it's fun, and it's something you go and tell stories about. There's a new place at ICON Park that has axe throwing. I don't know if you've seen that on any of your trips to Orlando, but I did that recently Nice. And had fun. Yeah. And I

will end up saying afterwards, oh, yeah. I went axe throwing in Orlando, which is different than the story I tell when I do the escape game in Orlando, because you end up talking about details in the adventure and we almost didn't beat it. So one experience I usually will give one sentence about it. The escape game, though, you end up talking quite a bit about it. So that reviews is big. Word-of-mouth for what you do is

Word-of-mouth is huge. Yeah. It's a it's a huge piece of it. And you're right. It's the kind of word-of-mouth that's specific. Specific word-of-mouth is so much more potent. You know, I went here and it was good, or I went here and these five things happened that are really specific. Like, if I tell you a story about a business and I say it's good, you probably won't remember it. But if I tell you three reasons it's good or fun, you might remember that. Yeah. That's right.

Well, Teddy, this has been so good talking with you. I'm glad I finally got you on the show. I make it sound like I've been trying to get Teddy on for years, and he keeps saying no. But that's not true. I just didn't ask him until recently. You call. I'm there, man. Yeah. It's it's that easy. Well, Teddy, if we want to just look at what escape now, hopefully, this will encourage people to want to go do an escape room Helm them. Which is wonderful.

They're across the country, not way out west where I am yet. They haven't made it to Seattle, but perhaps someday, you you're in Vegas. Right? I've come to Seattle. Coming to Seattle twice this year. So get ready. Alright. And then, yeah, location's announced soon. Yeah. You'll see us soon. Yes. Wonderful. That is great news. But if we just wanna check out what you do from a marketing and positioning side, where can we go to check that out? Yeah. You can look at our work at

theescapegame.com. You can follow us on social media. You can sign up for our email. Or, you know, occasionally, I write about it on my site, teddycheek.com. So you got you got some options if you're interested. Teddycheek.com. Thanks for doing the personal plug. I appreciate that because check it out. You will enjoy Teddy. He is a a great guy. You'll be happy to get to know him. And I don't think Teddy would mind if you reached out and said hello and let him

know how much you enjoy his work. Find me on LinkedIn. Alright. Thank you so much, Teddy. It's been great talking with you. Yeah. Thanks, Jody. See you, man. Thank you for listening to the Jody Mayberry show. Bloody oath we all love Sugar Jay.