Telling Stories Through Film

Foreign. Welcome to the Jody Mayberry Show. I'm so pleased this episode to bring you, well, someone that's become a new friend. Ken Kebo. He is a documentary filmmaker and I think you're really going to like some of the work he's done, which we will talk about. But first, I'll introduce you to Ken.

Hello, Ken. Jody, it's great to meet you. We are just embarking on a new friendship, but we've had some great talks and looking forward to getting to know you better and hopefully getting together one of these days. Oh, my goodness. We're going to record now over zoom, but soon we will be recording in person in Montana. I have an open door policy here, so anytime you want. Well, Ken, I have to say I really enjoyed checking out your work. There's two of the documentaries I've looked into, by the

way. I have always had a really hard time saying the word documentary. I practiced a lot before this, but that is what, like one of everybody, I think, has one or two words they have trouble saying. That is one of mine. So I had to practice a lot. You did great. We could just call them docs from now on. Okay, there we go. We'll just call them docs. Okay. So I know you've done a lot of great work. The two that I'm really fascinated with.

One's older, one is new and we can talk about either one. But I. I think the newer one is relevant with something that just opened in Orlando. We'll come to that. The first one, the film you did on Rolly Crump. Oh, my goodness, that had to just be so much fun. What a

great experience. Rolly was a one of a kind. It was kind of interesting how it all happened. I was having breakfast with my mom and she goes, hey, you should do a documentary. A guy that worked on Disneyland, he worked on A Small World. And I had this vision of some guy in the back, you know, building flats and stuff. And she goes, a friend of hers was dating Rollie at the time. She goes, yeah, his name's Rolly Crump. Look him up. No idea. Big Disneyland fan, but never knew who Rolly

was. And I was just blown away when I went home and researched him. I'm going, oh, my gosh, this guy is the real deal. And met Rolly and developed a friendship. And just one of those people, besides being probably the best storyteller I've ever met, met just a great person to be with and listen to and learn from. And just a genuinely, incredibly nice and just amazing person, just an amazing guy. Given how much he talked, how many stories he told, and you

only have so much film you can make. What I am most curious about with that is how. Well, this is two part. I'll wind it up and you can go with it as much as you want. So this is what I'm. I'm curious about. One is beforehand, do you put what you think will be the story together in your head on paper before you start talking to him? And then two, when there is someone that has all those stories and tells most of them, how do you decide what to cut out and. And what to leave in to make the film?

That's a great question, Jody. In this case, Rolly's life had so many different episodes. You know, Knott's Disney, he worked with the Cousteaus on stuff. I mean, it just. It's all over the board. So I just went in with a lot of questions and what happened was I realized as I started to put it together that there's enough here just for a Disney show easily, and then some. And what happened that was funny,

Jodi? First of all, I must have asked. We interviewed really for about eight hours, and I must have asked maybe four or five questions in those eight hours because he would just go on these beautiful stories that would segue into the next question. And it was just the easiest interview I've ever done.

He was so good on camera. But when I got back with all the footage and started looking at it, I realized that, you know what, each of these attractions that Rollie worked on is its own beginning, middle and end. So I like the under 40 minute documentaries. That's short documentaries at film festivals and stuff. But I realized that I initially went into one big 30 about Disneyland, but

I said this is three or four minute segments. I think there's six or seven in the show that tell Rollie's stories because each one did have a very definite beginning, middle and end. And, you know, it's funny when you. It's such a good question, Jodi, because you never really know going into it. You know, you can't really script a documentary. You can outline and, you

know, three by five cards and all that. But I can tell you, Roll is a perfect example how getting into the edit room and look and listening and playing with the footage for months that when it really finally comes on a little light bulb and goes, this is how it's all going to fit together. And I think that's one of the parts I enjoy the most about it. Your Other part of the question, and you and I have talked about this briefly, is. And it's on the list of projects. You know, Rollie and I

talk for eight hours. And there's so much else about him that's not in the show. I mean, he has stories about being with Steve Wynn in Vegas when he. Steve Wynn was first there and on the frontier downtown, and Rollie was doing murals on the wall. I mean, just. He's kind of like a zelig of, you know, all these people he's worked with and met. And I. I'm thinking that those segments, hopefully down the road shortly, would be a great podcast

again. Rollie is so good. I've got a couple other people, Bob Gurr, I'm sure you're familiar with, and. And Chris Crump, Rollie Son, and some other folks that I think we could put together a really good podcast, maybe five, six segments about these other phases of Rollie's life. Because the stories are just as interesting, they're just as funny, they're just as amazing. And again, you know, Rolu is such a good storyteller, I think. I think it'd be a

good show. There's one. I'll give you a little spoiler alert. There's one where he went out. He's going to do an undersea world adventure with the cost Cousteaus. And he went with Jacques Cousteau, and I think one of the sons was Jack and some other folks all off the coast of somewhere. It's in the tape, but I don't remember shot this while ago. And they literally. I guess I'm okay saying this, they drank so much on the boat, the Cousteaus almost

could not get the boat find their way back to port. And I'm just going, yo, here's these renowned seamen adrift, full of alcohol out somewhere. And it's just those kind of stories that, you know, no one would ever know if it wasn't for Rolly telling them. And one interesting thing, Jody, then I'll shut up. But Rolly said, when we start working on the

documenting, Ken, I have all these stories, and when I'm gone, the stories are gone with me. So I. I'm just so thankful to Rolly and Marie and Chris Crump that we sat down with Rollie because we do have all these stories now that he's passed away. So there's a lot more there. So it's pretty close to the top of the list after a couple things I'm working on now. But I'm looking forward to maybe taking a dive into the world of podcasting as well. And I think that might be a good project for it. Oh,

I think so. People are going to love those stories and the gift that you. You are able to give because you sat down with him and. And recorded them. And I'll tell you this, we need to talk about you mostly, Kim. But I'll tell you one of my big regrets I've had. I got. I had the chance to get to know Ron Logan very well. He was the executive vice president of live entertainment for all of Disney Worldwide. And we got to know each other really well.

And I would spend hours sitting in his office listening to him tell stories. And then he unexpectedly passed away. And I've always kicked myself that we didn't record any of those for no good reason we didn't record other than we were just having normal conversations and never recorded it. And there's so many times I've thought, I wish I had that story from Ron Nashir. Yes, I can tell it. But he was such a good

storyteller. I wish I had his voice telling it. And that's what you've done with this collection of Raleigh stories that you have. I've been so fortunate. And it kind of worked out really well because having done the documentary, I had a little bit of contact with Disney, and when they needed Rolly interviewed for the anniversary of the Haunted Mansion, they asked me to go over and do that sort of thing. So it also led to much more from Rollie

than just the documentary. And again, you know, I think when they're working on the Imagineer show for Disney Channel, I did a little work with him. And there's also another gentleman whose name escapes me. And I've done some interviews with Rollie. So, you know, it's so important, Jodi, like you say, it's. And I've been guilty of the same thing you have, but I've gotten smarter about it, carry a little zoom around because, yeah, those stories are

just priceless. And hearing them, as you mentioned, from the person who actually experienced them, if they're especially a good storyteller, there's nothing like it. So, yeah, I'm with you. I try and be really good. I tell everybody, tape your grandma and grandpa, tape your mom and dad, just, you know, when you're sitting down, because that's invaluable stuff and it's easy to do nowadays. Doesn't take a lot of equipment or, you know, a

lot of microphones or anything like that. But you'll treasure that. And your kids and their kids and their grandkids will treasure those, even those personal family moments forever. Yeah, they certainly will. Okay, so you did this great film about Rollie, the newer one, and I think we could talk all episode about that one. But, yeah, I. There's one thing I'm really interested in, and that is how you tell a story through film or using film to tell

stories. So with Roelly, you talk to him, and then you saw how the story came together. Now, your newest film, I know, is a passion project of yours, Universal Monsters, and you can tell us more about that. And then I'm curious how you told that story, because it's not like you were interviewing monsters and you see where it went that one. Maybe you got to put a story together ahead of time. Yes, that's a very good point, Jodi,

and that's very observant of you, I'll admit. I'm a Disney nerd and a monster nerd. You know, the beauty of now being mostly retired from client work is I could do projects that are more personal, and I'm interested, and I think that's what fuels anyone. I'm sure you could agree that's, you know, having that passion for something to get it finished. Yes. So I've always loved the Universal Monsters. And right before COVID was the 90th anniversary of the original

Dracula and Frankenstein, 1931. So 2021. So we were working on the project and got sidelined by Covid. So we're looking at next year, 2026, as the 95th anniversary of those two originals, and hopefully I could get it wrapped up and ready to go for next year. So it's just one of those funny things where the stars line up. I said, okay, gotta talk to Karloff, gotta talk to Chaney, gotta talk to Lugosi. Found. So, you know, thank goodness for the

Internet. Found Sarah Karloff, Boris's daughter, and Ron Chaney, Lon Chaney's grandson and great grandson. There are two, Lon Chaney's father and son that are both amazing. We lived about 10 minutes from each other in California. So, you know, when. When does that kind of happen? So for production budget, it was great. One day, shoot, we get them both. Tried to get the Lugosi, Lynn Lugosi, who is a great granddaughter of original Bela

Lugosi, and her dad's named Bella as well. And we just couldn't coordinate. She's got a lot going on. So I was disappointed in that because I had this idea for you Know, a big headline. Karlov, Cheney, Lugosi, all on the screen at the same time for the first time, you know, which didn't happen, but it was really interesting and had a great interview with Sarah, great interview with Ron Chaney, great discussions with

Lynn, but again, we just couldn't coordinate time. I found a young lady named Antonio Carlotta that does a universally me podcast all about the Universal monsters. And she is the great grandniece of Carl Laemmle, who founded Universal Studios and Universal City. He literally founded the city as well, because the city was on the lot, work and Live, and his son Junior, which is a whole fascinating story in itself. He became the head of production, if that's the right title, when he

turned 21. And he was the big monster movie fan. So she has just this incredible history of how the monster movies came about and did an amazing job of bringing Lugosi into that too. So even though we couldn't get Lynn Lugosi, I feel like we've covered Bella really well. But she's great on camera. She knows through stuff she has a blood connection with Universal Studios. So I kind of narrowed it down, Jody, into okay, Universal, because without them there'd be no

monster movies. The original Frankston, original Dracula, original Wolfman. And that's kind of how it's laying out. But the interesting thing, and this turned out to be a blessing, is with the absence of Legosis on camera, I started thinking, you know what, what else was really special about these monsters? Well, the makeup. And turns out a gentleman named Jack Pierce was the makeup artist forgotten to history in a large part. But I'm hoping this documentary

might enlighten people because he was a pioneer. He was amazing and much to my thrill because he's one of my heroes. We were able to get Rick Baker, who's a seven time Oscar winner for makeup, to talk about Jack Pierce, who's one of Rick Baker's heroes. So, you know, it just all kind of came together and like you said, the story was much more laid out than Rolly because I knew we would be doing these three or four things, but

everybody talked about everything and we just got some amazing stuff. Sarah told me some incredible stuff about her dad that I never knew. Just, you know, with acting and the Grinch, which a lot of people don't realize, that's Boris Karloff's voice on the Grinch, and he won a Grammy for that. So, yeah, it's just, you know, it's funny, you do these programs and it takes a while, but you know this from your podcast, but then things kind

of fall into place. And I think that's part of the fun, is just collecting all these puzzle pieces and then sitting down. It's a long process, but I enjoy it. And just seeing how everything fits together, there's nothing better. As far as professional work, I really enjoy it. Well, as I was doing research into you before talking, that's what really captured me about this. And what you're doing with film is the idea of

sitting down with Rollie. And I know you could take every 20, 30 minutes of the conversation and make it a podcast and people would be entertained, but you've got to approach it so differently. I imagine, when it's a film, because it serves a different purpose, people consume it in a different way. And then that really got me interested in. My goodness, Ken must be onto something that we can take interviews and turn it into a good story. Okay,

so now bouncing back to Rollie. When you look at the finished product, how much of the storyline do you feel was in place before the conversations and how much came into play after? I might say 80, 20, 20 before

the conversation, 80 after. Because Rollie just took me these places that I never expected to go. And a little tip for aspiring documentary makers out there is there's nothing more valuable than a pre interview, and it's not always easy to do. But if you could sit down with the person that's going to be in your documentary, maybe with a zoom, little audio recorder, if they're okay with that, and just get to know them, you'll get more great information. Without a camera there, you'll

build a much better rapport, especially if you've never met them. So. So when you do come in with cameras and lights and action and all that stuff, they know you. You've stepped on some stories in the pre interview that you never would have known about, and I've just gotten some great nuggets out of that. And Roelly was the same way. We spent quite a bit of time together before. He still surprised me during the interview, but I think in the documentary just got

to go in with open eyes and just know that. Don't stick to your questions. You need to get things covered. But listen, I think the biggest tendency, just my opinion, is people are so set on these questions, they don't listen to what the person's saying because if you let that person take you where they're

going, it's usually some of the best stuff you get. That's been my experience. At least when you're having that conversation and it goes somewhere you didn't expect, and there's that little twinge in your head and you say, wait a minute, we need to know more about this. What questions do you ask to go deeper into whatever tidbit just came up? You know, I'll give you a documentary secret. It's called

the Pregnant Pause. And if I asked your question and you answered and then stopped, and I know you had something else you wanted to say, but in your mind you're going, do I want to share this or not? I would just remain quiet. And then there's this little tension. Not a bad tension, but a tension that I'm not saying anything. So that person would probably feel obligated to continue talking. And that pregnant pause, not, not in a bad way, but usually gives that person the space

to continue to talk. I'll bring up an example without naming the interviewer's name, but I was listening an interview by Bruce Springsteen once. I know how much you know about Bruce, but he's had a lot of mental health struggles and he's very public about that. And he was going down this road that I've never heard him go down before in a great way, explaining how he, you know, does what he does. And the person interviewing him never

caught it and went on to question number two. And I, I was in my car and I almost had to pull over going, oh my gosh, I'm big Bruce fan. I've never heard him so close to really spilling his guts. And, you know, he missed the person missed an opportunity that I think could have

led to something really well. But so again, it's that pregnant pause. If that person would have just waited a second instead of jump on that next question, the interviewee might have really gotten into something that they don't, don't normally share in a public forum. So, you know, a lot of people in on that pregnant pause. It's, it's a, actually, it's kind of funny, but it's a really good tool and you get to go places. I'm

not sure I'm answering your questions. Then I let them just go. And as they, you know, it's video and we cut in space and we're not shooting film, so it's not expensive. You'll find when they're starting to kind of go a little bit off where you think anything is going to be valuable. And I try to be really open minded to that. And then you just kind of, when they do stop, kind of just bring them back into the Fold.

You know, Ken Burns, who I really admire, does something really interesting, said, I'll never ask someone to repeat something and make it 30 seconds instead of three minutes. And I learned from that. That's a really smart thing because, you know, when they're in this free flow, and I'm sure you find this out in your podcast all the time, you really get some valuable stuff. And if you get this great thing that's too long for your program and come back and say, well, tell me that in 30 seconds or

less, you're not going to get anything near what you already got. So, yeah, it's. You know, it's. It's a. It's fun. I enjoy interviewing people. I probably ask too many questions in real life, but I am who I am, as Popeye would say. I've had family members where I'll be asking them questions, and they'll say, I'm not on your podcast. I totally know what you're talking about. It's like, ken, why don't you ever tell us

anything about you? You're always asking questions. Well, you know, it's my career, I guess. Well, if. If we go back to that pregnant pause, do you think interviewers, whether it's a podcast or filmmaker interviewers that miss the pregnant pause, is it because they don't know what to do with silence, or they're just too set on going to their next question? I think it's a little

bit of both, Jody. I think a lot of it, and I get it. You go in with these questions, you have a half hour with this person and probably not much more, and you've got 10 questions, and, you know, in your mind, the story is A, B, C, D. And if I don't get one of these pieces, it's going to fall apart. Well, that's never the case, at least in my experience. You could always kind of juggle stuff around, as you know from your podcast, to make things make sense. So I think it's.

I've only got X amount of time. I've got X amount of questions. And what if he leaves and I'm only at number six? So I think it's that, and a lot of it may be just not knowing that pregnant pause. You know, it's funny if you watch 60 Minutes and there's a lot of editing that, but you see a lot of pregnant pauses in 60 minutes, and it might

just be the cutting. You know, I say, blah, blah, blah. And then they cut back to Ed Bradley, who's not around anymore, but used to be a 60 Minutes guy, and then a shot of him just sitting there saying nothing, you know, so I'm sure they use that more as a cutting device in that. But I think it's a little bit of both. But I think people are just so dialed into those questions. And I was too, way back when, and I don't know which project it was, but I finally learned that, you know,

just let them go. I'll tell you a real quick story. I did a thing called Lincoln's Greatest Speech, which was actually his second inaugural address, not Gettysburg. And that's according to Lincoln himself and a gentleman named Ron White, who's a Lincoln biographer, great guy. And we were fortunate enough to get Richard Dreyfus, who's a big Lincoln fan, to do that. And

we did, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I said, okay, you guys, you're both Lincoln fans, let's just sit you both down and have you talk about Lincoln. And they were both horrified. You know, they, well, what are the questions? What are we going to say? And I go, you know, don't worry about it, we're going to roll. And you guys just go. And I don't think they'd ever work that way. And I didn't have a list of questions. And you

know, what do you tell Richard Dreyfus to do? He's Richard Dreyfus. But it's, I think it's the best part of that program. It's about eight minutes and there's just, there's like two guys sitting at a bar talking about Lincoln. You know, they're having fun and they're joking and they're making some great points. So again, it's kind of that loosey goosey thing that's a little scary to do. But I think you'll. I've found that I get more than I ever expected when I really loosen the

reins a little bit and let things run a little bit wild. Because you can always bring it back in with that. There are some podcasts you may have listened to, some that go into 1, 2, 3 hours long. Well, my shows are usually 30 minutes. What do you think is missing? Because I've heard that some of the best stuff on those interviews comes after an hour, after the things you normally would say in an interview have been said. Then the good

stuff comes out. What do you think I miss doing a 30 minute interview versus a 3 hour interview? Probably more of that real personal, deep stuff. You know, it's. It's a hard nut to crack. But again, going in prepared which you always do, pre interview, if possible. Very time consuming, but again, having a little bit of rapport, I think people loosen up. I think, you know, we're always looking for that best question that they've never been asked before. And that's

always a tough one. There's a really good podcast called wtf I don't know if you've ever heard of. It's a comedian named Marc Maron, and it usually runs about an hour, 20 hour, 30 in fact, after 16 years and almost 2,000 episodes, he's going to end this year, which is a shame. But he has comedians, movie folks, directors, kind of runs the gamut. But he doesn't call it an interview, he calls it a

conversation. And he does an incredible job of going those places that I don't think a lot of these people have ever gone before. And I think it's just this conversation. He interrupts them, they interrupt him. It's not a, you know, ABCD thing. And I think just that that veneer of an interview kind of melts away. And. And again, it's like two people just sitting across from each other, you know,

having a glass of wine or a beer and just talking about life. And I think that comes as you spend more time together. It's interesting how people will open up. When it's a trust, we both know that it's the people that trust you. Again, that's where a pre interview and a little report comes in. But I think, I think you could build that trust in a short amount of time and people will realize that you're genuine and you're sincere. I always make it very clear that I'm never going to

use anything that we've recorded unless you approve it. When the monster show's done, it will go out to everyone involved and make sure everybody's comfortable with it. Rolly and Marie, his wife, took a look at it and signed on. And I don't want to ever put anybody in an awkward position, but you know as well as I do, building that trust is really key in kind of getting through the

veneer a little bit, I think with folks. One of the things that had me thinking about this even before we were talking, I was listening to a podcast that he does two or three hour episodes, and I was just listening to some to see how he did. What do they talk about? Dave Ramsey was his guest and he started out asking, what's the key to a good marriage? And I thought, well, that's interesting, because given what Dave Ramsey is known for, if I was lucky enough

to have him on my show. I don't think that's the first thing I would have asked. But knowing you have three hours, you could start anywhere. Because if you ask a question like that, that's so personal in the beginning, maybe it goes places you never would have gone otherwise. Yeah, I think that's a great point. And Mark Marin of the wtf, a lot of times he'll begin with, who's your guys? So suddenly I ask you, who's your guys? And you

name off three or four people, and I know who you like. Probably. Probably music wise, maybe acting wise, Disney wise. So that gives the interviewer a lot of ammunition to go in a lot of different directions. And if I know what music you like, what books you like, what movies you like, suddenly I have a lot of cool directions I could go in. And I think that's a really good trick that he does. Just kind of catching people off guard. And it's kind of known now

that he does that. But it sure gives you more of an insight into who they are personally. And I think that the. Yeah, the key to a good marriage, that's a great one, too. You're going to really find out something about that. And I think people being interviewed like that kind of stuff. It's, you know, they don't like the same route questions, and where'd you grow up? And, you know, what was your childhood like? I mean, those are important, but I don't think it's anything they

haven't visited before. So I totally get that. That's an interesting approach. I'm glad you brought that up. All right, so we will go back to filmmaking and storytelling. When you're putting a film together, in the end, it turns out to be this great story. What are the elements of a great story? I think touching someone emotionally

is probably one of the biggest things. And making that connection. I remember as much as anything at one of the film festival screenings of Rollie's show, and Rollie did a Q and A afterwards, and there was a young child in the front row, probably about seven or eight, and Rollie was on stage, and he was looking at Rollie like Rollie walked on water. You know, here was this guy, and he'd sat through the documentary that built Disneyland

and new Walt Disney and, you know, blah, blah, blah. And this kid was just mesmerized. And that was so fulfilling for me to. To see this young person just thinking that, you know, what Rollie had done was so great. Rollie was so great. And who Knows will he go on to be an imagineer? I don't know. Maybe he'll just hold an annual pass to Disneyland. But I think to touch people emotionally is really the way to draw them in and to have them

emotionally participate. I think you got to tell a good story. That's a given. You got to have interesting people on screen. I think that's what Ken Burns and his group do so well. They find really good, interesting people to tell the story. But I think you got to make that emotional connection. Disney pretty easy to make Lincoln to some extent. I'm hoping there's a little

emotional connection with monsters. There's a good part of that show where Sarah and Antonio talking about the humanization of Frankenstein and Dracula and how people connected to them. You know, Sarah says, you know, her dad got more letters from children than anyone because they understood that the creature was not a monster. He was a victim, and he was so, you know, again, I'm hoping there's those pieces in this. I think people enjoy the monster movies, but you can hit that emotional

cord and story. I think you've got an audience that'll be pretty interested in what you're doing, hopefully. Yeah, that is great. Now, Epic Universe just opened in Orlando, and of course, the monsters are a big feature. So do you plan on going to Epic to visit your monsters? I hope so. I've heard wonderful things about, actually Antonio, who was. Who's in the documentary. She was there for the grand opening and some sort of guest of honor. So

she's been talking about it on her podcast. Yeah, it sounds amazing. I really want to go. And you know what? I just found online yesterday that there's a new Frankenstein movie coming out. And the trailer, if you want to

check it out, just released on Netflix and Guillermo del Toro is directing it. And if you get a chance to watch it, it's very close to the original story. It looks pretty mind blowing. So I think in between Orlando and then Guillermo, who's a huge Boris Karloff fan doing this movie, I think the monsters are on the rise. So hopefully this documentary hits it a good point. And, you know, people's. People's attention to monsters is higher than it's been

since 1931. Yeah, it seems like great timing for your documentary to come out with everything else going on. I have not been yet. I've not been. Yeah, I'm anxious here. Hopefully this year I have a chance to go. I'm in Orlando all the time, but I. I haven't been there since it opened. So. Ken And I had the chance to. Well, I didn't realize that's what we were doing. The first time we talked, we had a pre call about something else. And then before recording today, we. We had a good

conversation. And so, Ken, I. I feel now, I feel that on what you were saying about how a pre call, which I. I rarely do, but I typically only have people on the show that I already know, so maybe I don't need to do it, but I actually feel that because in this chance we had to talk before we started recording, finding out about you moving to Montana and all the other stuff that you're working on. But the thing that caught my attention, there were two things that I told you where

you right away said, oh, that would be a good film. And so it makes me wonder. You seem to always be on the lookout for your next film. Yeah, I've got a little bit of a list. You know, it's just. It's something I'll probably do as long as I physically can. You know, I tend to finance my own documentaries, so I don't really like to spend a lot of time trying to raise money and all that. I do them very inexpensively because I do most of the work myself, which may be a good thing, maybe a bad

thing. I don't know. Yeah, I think there's so many amazing stories out there. And just like the one you brought earlier that we were chatting before the interview about, I had the Grizzly, the gentleman. Who's Doug Peacock? Grizzly, yeah, yeah, Doug Peacock. I'm sorry, I forgot his name. There's so many cool stories out there. And I think it's important probably to my mental acuity to keep doing stuff that keeps my

noggin moving a little bit. I think I mentioned this to you too. I'm thinking as I end up spending more time up here in Montana, there's so many amazing stories up here, mostly artistic. There's an incredible amount of artists up here, really good ones. And I. I'd like to do like a Montana minute, maybe three, four minute segments of these individual artists. Again, just to kind of get more involved in the state and what goes on here. But also the art

they're doing is incredible. And I'd like to hopefully if they're. I could get a following, you know, be able to post something, maybe every month, a video on YouTube or Vimeo or wherever it ends up that maybe people in the state might be interested in, even outside scene. Because I'm just blown away by the artwork up here, you know, it's very western oriented and I, it's nothing like I've ever seen. I, I would love to meet some of these folks and help get their, their work

seen by more people. Yeah, that is such a fun idea and a way to connect you to your new home too. And there are so many wonderful stories I was telling Ken before how much I've traveled in Montana and I feel like I can never be done with Montana. There are so many stories, there's so much history everywhere you go, there's a new story in the land to learn. Like Bannack State

park, which is a ghost town that is now a state park. And you visit and it's just like everyone in town got up and walked out on the same day, leaving everything behind and they were able to preserve it as a state park. Well, most people don't know about places like that and they're Grant Coors Ranch. And there's just so many great stories in Montana that Ken, I think you're going to be stimulated and surprised with all the stories the land and the people in Montana

have for you. There's an old show that was pretty well known as a guy named Huell Howser and it was on PBS called California Gold and it was a half hour show. But he would go around California, find these kind of little known, lesser known stories and he did a great job of hosting it. But I'd love to do something like that up here. I mean it

would get me out and about. I like to do still photography too, which is always, you know, I always got the still camera kind of on my hip just in case, but a great chance to get to know the state and the people. And I don't think I'm, I'm ambitious enough to do a half hour show every

month. But even like you say, the, the ghost town, what a fast, you know, find someone like a ranger or someone who's very well versed in it and shoot and hear stories and shoot the town and just, you know, show these people that don't know about these things, these great treasures that are in the state that they ought to make a visit to and check out. Yeah, it's, it's just, I like telling stories. I got a, a friend who did

a great series. He, he used to work on NBC News, but he, I forget the name of it, but he basically would, when he would travel, he would sit down with people on planes and basically interview them. Very almost pre interviewish. And he said out of those trips he got a lot of little I think

it might have been the next seat over or something. He got these little news stories that would air occasionally on NBC News of this fascinating person that he just happened to sit by on a plane that had this amazing story. You know, we've all got these stories, but unfortunately we don't have a way to tell it. Yeah, I thought that was a really good idea. Well, here's a podcast idea I've had for years and have never done called Sidewalk Stories, where I just go into town and

grab someone off the sidewalk. Ask, can I interview you for 20 minutes? And because everybody has a good story, you just have to get it out of them. You're exactly right. That would be a great idea. I mean, you just. Who knows what you would stumble across? Everybody's got an amazing story somewhere in their life. Yeah, that's right. Well, Ken, I was telling you about books before we started recording. I've got one more for you, and I'll mention it here

because I absolutely love the book. It is called the Lost Grizzlies by Rick Bass. And it's about Rick Bass and Doug Peacock searching for grizzly bears in Colorado which have been extinct for a long time, but there's always been rumors of sightings, and so they go out looking for them together. And it is a fabulous story. And both Rick Vass and Doug Peacock are practically your neighbors now that you're in Montana. So there's another good book for you, Ken.

I know people are going to be fascinated with you. Where can we find out more about you and what you're up to? Oh, well, thank you. You're a good interviewer. This has been really fun. So thank you, Jody. That's. Yeah, you asked really good questions. So thanks for making it so, so enjoyable. I just. It's kenkebo.com k e n k e b o w.com a long time ago, a marketing friend said, you know, just take everything and put it in one place, you know, and it turned out to be really good

advice from her. So everything's there. Yeah. And hopefully sometime next year we'll have a monster show. One thing for people, because I know you have a Disney a lot of people are interested in Disney is the Rolly documentary used to be on Vimeo for a fee. And when Rolly passed away, I just made it public. So if anyone wants to see the whimsical imagineer who's interested in roller Disneyland that's free on Vimeo, so they can just go on and type in the

whimsical Imagineer and it should be up there for him. But, you know, for me, it's I'm not really in this to make money. It would be great to have some of these, you know, go further than film festivals. But I really just like telling stories like Rollies. And again, he had such an impact when he said, ken, when I'm gone, my stories are gone. And I know I didn't get all of them, but, you know, it's nice to know that maybe I've helped

keep his legacy alive to some way. So everything's on the website, probably stuff you can care less about, but there's a couple good things on there, too. All right, wonderful. Thank you so much, Ken. And thank you for listening to the Jody Mayberry Show. He'll give you a fair go. It's Sugar J.