Welcome to the Jody Mayberry show. I have a returning guest that I find just fascinating, and I know you'll love him too. Matthew Lund, the author of best Story Wins and former Disney and Pixar storyteller. Matthew, it's so great to have you back. Well, thank you, Jody, for inviting me back. Well, I wanna tell you, Matthew, that I don't just talk about how wonderful your book is when I'm in front of you. I recently was in Orlando with 2 Disney executives and and we are talking about
storytelling. And I said, you know, in my opinion, the best book on storytelling that's out there is The Best Story Wins by Matthew Linn. And they both took out pins and wrote that down. So hopefully it's helping spread this. I still believe it. This is one of the best books on storytelling that's out there. Only a 127 pages. Easy to get
through If you're going to read alright. It's easy to get through in the sense that it's short and easy to read, but I feel like you never actually get through it because I personally just keep referencing it, coming back, rereading pieces. So you did a a wonderful job. We talked about that last time you were on the show, but I just wanted you to know that was, what, 3 years ago you were on the podcast, and I still keep your book
near my desk. I still reference it. That's very kind of you. Thank you, Jody. Well, since you were on the show last time, you've had some things happen. The you've got some wonderful things in the works. You had a a children's book come out. Let's hear about some of that. Well, you know, I'm trying to I'm trying to go back 3 years. And, you know, I think the first thing I'm thinking about is I during the pandemic, and we were all home, and, you know, we're
all juggling our lives virtually on Zoom. And if you had kids like I did, you're now helping your kids do school on Zoom. During this time, I guess, as a creative person, my brain doesn't stop, and I end up directing an animated short film from home. And I turned my Airstream camper into my my office. And during that time, I made an animated short. It was 10 minutes long, and it's,
it's called Sprite Fright. And I don't know if I told you about it, Jody, but and it is it's got that Pixar great animation quality and character designs, but it's kind of an aged up Pixar type thing, kind of 14 plus. But it's about kinda cute forest Smurf looking sprites that do everything they can to protect their humble little forest even to the point of getting rid of humans in a comical dark humor way. Well, I made this short, and it went
on YouTube. You can see it on YouTube. And it went viral, and it ended up winning all these best animated short films at festivals and got into the most famous animation festival in the world in France called Annecy, and then got optioned to be a TV show. So that's the first bit of great news. And so the, the company that's making it is the company that
made the animated show, called Rick and Morty. And so it is definitely more for an older audience, but but that is one of the things in the works. And then the following year, I ended up writing my children approved, Santa Yeti book, which you can it's on Amazon, and
Barnes and Noble's and all those places. And Santa Yeti is a a cute book, Christmas save Christmas book about a Yeti who hates being cold in the North Pole and finds a way to get to Brazil secretly on Santa's sleigh, which ends up turning into a comical mess, and the yeti has to save Christmas. So but those are some of the things I've been working on, and I also have a film in development that I can't give
details on yet. But that is in the process. So I've been keeping busy, keeping creative, and having fun. Oh, man. You've got a lot going on, and it's so neat to see how things have gone for you in the last few years. And the Sprite Fright was delightful. It was fun. Did you enjoy the experience of directing animation? Oh, definitely. I definitely. You know, my
career, I've been in I mean, this is crazy to think about. But when I started in the animation business in 1991, 1992, as an animator on the Simpsons, so it's been over 30 years, All my jobs in the animation business, I've done almost everything from animation, like on the Simpsons and animating on Toy Story, and then working as a writer and a storyboard artist on, you know, 10, you know, films and TV specials and shorts at Pixar. But then Sprite Fright was my first
directing gig. And I had so much fun working on that. And all of the experience of doing all the different jobs in animation, it all kinda came together in that directing process on Sprite Fright. And so, I had so much fun doing that, and I think that is a blessing and a curse because then you just wanna do more of it because it was so much fun. And so I have been very fortunate in my career that I have you know and it's perseverance,
but as well. But that I've continued to be able to create and have some other directing opportunities now as well. So Is that is directing something you saw coming, something you wanted, or was it an opportunity that popped up and you took it? Well, it was an opportunity that came up and I took it. When the animation studio that produced Sprite Fright reached out to me to help them find a director to make an animated short at their company.
They reached out to me because they had taken one of my story animation master classes. It was a workshop that they attended in Italy. This was, oh my gosh, 12 years ago, I did a a 3 day story workshop class in Italy. They went to it. And then years later, when they wanted to improve their storytelling skills At their studio, they reached out to me saying, hey. Do you know of any directors who would like to make something with us? Because we trust
your story instincts. And I said, hey. Guess what? I could be that director. And so it was that, you know, that moment we all have in life where sometimes you're given an opportunity to either take a chance that maybe is a little scary or to pass on it. And that moment, I ended up taking the chance and leaping into something that I had no experience doing, but it I learned along the way and ended up loving
it. So how neat. And now now look at where things are heading because you took a scary chance. I know. I think everybody can relate. Maybe it's a different industry or maybe it's not business related. Maybe it's personal. But I think all of us have probably been faced with times in our life where there's an opportunity that maybe scares us, and we either choose to take the take the leap or not. So, yeah, I took
the leap. And I think it gave me the confidence since that time to take more leaps and do more things that scare me. You know, this book, Santi Yeti, that, came out last Christmas. I, basically, I gave a talk, a story keynote at a publishing company that does mostly children's books in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
And I gave this story keynote. And then afterwards, when I'm walking out and saying hi to everybody and the main editor of the publishing group invites me to go to lunch with them and and asks me, have you ever wanted to publish a book, make write a children's book? And I said, yes. I would love to do that, and I have an idea. And he said, well, that's great. Please send it to me on Monday. And then when I went home on the weekend, I scrambled to figure out an idea
because I I didn't even have one. But, you know, it's those moments where it's kinda like fake it till you make it. And I scramble through all my story ideas, you know, in my computer, found one that was actually a feature film idea, and I boiled it down into 500 words, sent it on Monday. They liked it. And then from that point, about 8 months later, the book came out, which is not a normal thing in the children's picture book industry. But yeah. You know? Sometimes
you just gotta take the leap. Yeah. So I'm gonna come right back to that. You said something I need to ask about, but first, I wanna tell you this because I think you will appreciate it. I was at a business workshop. I was helping teach at this workshop, and they did a session about creativity, and they had a someone who does sketches and watercolors. And I thought, come on now. That's not what I'm here for. And I only draw stick figures, and I'm
like, this is gonna be so unenjoyable. And it was Jason Nicholas. He does uses the brand ink inspired life and or ink inspired life. And he led some sketching, And we went out into the streets of Spokane and sketched a building, and then I sketched a lamppost. And I have to tell you, Matthew, I got hooked. Ever since I've been home, I don't share them with anybody, but I have a sketchbook. And once a week, I will pull out my photos and find
a a building. That's all I've been working on now, and I'll just sketch it. And it's completely for me, but I absolutely love it. Yeah. You know, I maybe it's I mean, I've always been a creative person my entire life, and I've had a lot of encouragement from my family and teachers that I should pursue a career in art when I was a kid. But I don't think it was until a couple of years ago that I really embraced trying to do things that scare me, creative things. I would say I'm
not gonna do skydiving or scuba diving or something. Right? So, you know, for example, I think it was maybe 2 years ago, my daughters were wanting to get a piano. They don't know how to play piano, neither does my wife and I. But I thought to myself, you know, I've always wanted to learn how to play piano. And then so 2 years ago, I decided as a creative challenge, I'm gonna take piano classes. And it breaks your brain a little
bit as somebody. I'm this was when I was when I turned 50, I think I I decided I'm gonna embark on this. Being in a piano class with someone standing over your shoulder telling you, almost reprimanding you a little bit about how to put your fingers on the keys, and you're not doing it right. And, you know, it's really hard because you get older sometimes to say, I wanna keep learning. But I think that's one of those things that keeps us sharp, especially creative people. I would
say anybody, not just creative people. No matter what you do in life, continuing to think like a student, it keeps you alive. And even last night, we have our, you know, piano and just kinda going on there and going, oh, gosh. Do I even still remember how to play the piano a little bit? And then it's just the muscle memory kind of kicks in. And I'm like, oh, wow. You know? All of a sudden, I'm playing, you know, Free Falling by Tom Petty, and it's all coming out. And I'm like, oh, right.
I still remember. So but it's I think you have to be proactive about continuing to stay creative and thinking like a student in your life no matter how old you are. Yeah. What a great thought. And to hear you at this stage in life to start embracing things that scare you and taking on things that scare you. What from a creative perspective or inspiration perspective, what happens
when you start doing that? Well, I think the first thing is it's fear, and everything in your body is telling you this is uncomfortable. Why are you doing this to yourself? And you have to, like, push through that kind of first fear barrier because, you know, it's, like, one of those universal themes in storytelling, the fear of failure. And in business and creative life, nobody wants to fail. We having to push through that first barrier and get
through that, and then it becomes a little easier. But, you know, I think all of us trying out something new and doing something that's unfamiliar to us is scary. You know? I think about times where there's the new update on my iPhone, and it just frazzles me because all of a sudden, I'm not swiping this way. I'm swiping this way, and everything is different. And I think your natural reaction is just to shut down. It's too scary.
I'm not gonna adapt. I'm not gonna change. Just keep things the way they are. But I find that if you can just push through that initial fear, then you start to adapt, and you grow. And all of a sudden, you have learned something new that you would have never thought you could do or you could have imagined.
So Yeah. Very neat. And I'm have surprised myself with moving beyond stick figure park rangers now and to being able to sketch something and show it to I don't show them to many people, but when I do, they a pleasure of mine was showing the clock tower in Riverfront Park in Spokane to somebody and they actually recognized it. And I'm like, hey, it may not be that bad if someone recognized. Okay. The one place I need to visit, you were talking about the process that led you to Santa Yeti.
You said you went through your computer, through your story ideas. And I said, oh, we need to talk about this. So tell me about this. You have some sort of story inventory, it sounds like. Alright. So one of the things I try to do is I do try to journal. Okay? And I I find it difficult because well, I found it difficult at first because it feels a little bit like a chore
sometimes. And I found what worked for me was that every time I do a keynote talk someplace where I'm sent someplace new, it could be somewhere flashy new like Dubai, or it could be someplace that is just regular small town USA, which usually the most interesting stories come from. But what I do is when I'm flying back home or I'm driving back home, I just end up recalling what happened at the event. And it's not just walked up on the stage, did a talk to 500
financial advisors and blah. It's usually there's always some comedy, some drama that's in there, and then the people you meet and the things you see. So, usually, these journal entries I write are very analytical, just this is what happened. But I end up going back to a lot of these things for inspiration for characters, you
know, or for situations or worlds. And then I kinda pick the things that maybe were unique and interesting that happened, and and then I pull those into a story that maybe are not about humans, but about ducks or yetis or robots. But I take the experience that I happened, and I use those as kind of metaphors or, you know, analogies or and I pull those into the stories. And so, you know, thinking about, like, the coldest
place I've ever been to before. And it's a combination between Saint Petersburg, Russia during the winter years ago and being in Edmonton, Canada, you know, for speaking at a game company. And thinking about, boy, if you lived up here all the time and you were this cold, you would just wanna get to Brazil or something. You know? And then you just so I think you have to do a little bit of the work of just observing life and
recording things that happened to you. You could even just record it, I guess, on your phone if you wanted. Because the thing is, I don't know if it's me, but you tend to forget about these moments later on unless you you write them down. So that's how I kind of have material to go to later on. And I think the greatest stories that are told are when people end up taking moments, usually 2 familiar moments, 2 things that people can relate to, and then they
lend them together. And so you take kind of a real things that happened to you and then maybe kind of a make believe set of characters or world and then kinda bring these together. So that's how I do it. That is really interesting to hear and to realize these creative stories about yetis or ducks or robots, they actually come from elsewhere, from something you saw in Omaha. Well, it was interesting to hear also that your time in Edmonton led to an idea.
I spent some time in Fort McMurray, Alberta, and I don't know if you know where how that is. You so you went to Edmonton and you thought, wow, this is really far north for McMurray is 4 and a half hours further north. And I got there and they said, you really lucked out. You got here when it's warm. And I said, warm. It's 6 degrees. And they said, yeah, but it was negative 25. So it was so cold. But I got to go dog sledding for the first time. I went curling for the first time, and
I saw the northern lights for the first time. So quite the experience. That is that is cool. But see, those are the things that you wanna write down or at least record. So then later on, when you are, you know, developing a story or, you know, have an idea, you can pull from those personal experiences. Because, you know, it really is true when people say write what you know. So the more you know, you have more material to work with. Right? And, also, along with writing what you
know is make it personal. And so I think everybody has these stories, moments they experience every day. I think the thing is it's a combination between being too busy, maybe too lazy, maybe too scared, but we don't write them down. And you don't have to be a great writer to write down these moments that happened to you. You just have to get them down so you don't forget. Yeah. Okay. I may come back to that because I I have more Okay. To I really like this
idea. But I also wanna make sure we get to talk about Inside Out 2. One of the best movies I've seen in a little while, we went as a family to the movie theater, and I hesitate to to say anything that might sound bad about Pixar because I love their movies. But they did seem to have a dip for a while. And then all of a sudden Inside Out 2 and I felt like, oh, this is the old Pixar. This is like when Matthew Long was there. It was fabulous. So why did Inside Out 2 work so well? Alright.
So when you think of the classic Pixar films, like Monsters Inc and Ratatouille and Up and the Toy Story ones that the ones that I I worked on, one of the key factors to making those stories great beyond the great animation and voice talent and music and all that, there needs to be a universal theme. There needs to be something in the story that connects to the hearts of every person on the planet, every age, every gender, every culture.
And so when you watch the Toy Story movies, and I talk about this in my book, when you see the Toy Story movies, they connect with everybody's fear of abandonment on the planet. What if I'm not loved anymore? What if I'm no longer needed? What if I get too old and no one wants me? All the Toy Story films, that was Woody's story. What if my owner doesn't love me? What if I'm replaced by a cooler toy? What if I get old and I'm grown out?
Every one of these Pixar films during that golden age of Pixar had a strong universal theme. These universal themes are like the desire for safety and security. That was Finding Nemo. The desire for love, which we can all relate to. That was WALL E, you know, because that was really a love story. The desire to choose your own freedom, you know, your own fate. That was the movie Brave. You know, the girl with the bow and arrow not
wanting to be the queen. And Ratatouille not wanting to be a rat that just steals but makes food. The universal themes that were happening for a couple of the last or I should say the absence of universal themes that were happening, I mean, the last couple of Pixar films, I think, is what made people not go and see them. I mean, there was a lot of other factors too. The pandemic and people not getting back to movie theaters. But, you know, just to give an example, the movie Lightyear
that came out. I mean, Buzz Lightyear, he is probably one of the most recognizable characters animated characters in the world, but the truth is animated sci fi films don't do well in the box office. The reason why WALL E did, though, was because it was a love story. It was the last robot on earth that wanted to find someone. That's why people love that movie. Lightyear didn't suit do so well because it was a purely sci fi adventure action animated film. You don't really know what
the universal theme was in it. How do I connect to this film? Then we got inside out too. And you think about since the pandemic and with the whole election we went through and all of the concerns we have in life between AI and the environment and, you know, there's a list that goes on forever. If you can think of a universal theme that's relatable to all those things, it's anxiety. And that's what inside out 2
was about. It was the universal dealing with the universal theme of anxiety and how do you process it, how do you deal with it. And that's why that film did so well, because they got back to something that connects to every person on the planet, which is the universal theme of anxiety. So that is important, not only for animated films or live action films, but that's important for our communication in every industry, in every business.
When you think about how do we make authentic connections with people, it's making sure that we're relatable, and we are using universal themes to be able to make whatever is important to us memorable and impactful in person. You led right into what I was going to going to ask about as you were talking about this is do you come up with universal themes for business storytelling? The back of your
book even says bring buzz to the boardroom. So that makes me think, okay, do you give a presentation in a boardroom with a universal theme? Absolutely. I mean, when you you can go through every industry, and you can find a universal theme in it. So let's just say, for example, that anything with, like, the health industry or life insurance or pharmaceutical industry, all that
stuff. I mean, that sounds like that could be very dry and analytical, but the universal theme is the desire for safety and security and also the desire for love to keep the people you love safe and secure. And if, god forbid, something happens to you, do you have the right life insurance that is gonna make sure your loved ones are taken care of? So it's not just a a story around how much does life insurance cost. It's the story of taking care of
our loved ones. Right? And then you think about I'm trying to think of other analytical things. Like, let's pick cybersecurity. You know? That seems very dry and analytical. But when you think about what is cybersecurity about, it's about resilience. It's about having the right software and the right team to help you predict the unknown of what's gonna happen in the future. Keep your data safe. Right? That's about resilience
and being prepared for the unknown. Then all of a sudden, it opens up this universal theme of everybody knows that it's important to be prepared for the unknown, and then we can share all of our most prepared
moments in life and our least prepared moments in life. And I can't remember if in my book I share my least prepared moment in my life with my son going up Yosemite Falls and not being prepared, thinking to myself as a dad, oh, a bottle of water and a snack bar split between the 2 of us can get us up this giant mountain, not realizing it's switchback trails for 5 hours, and my son hates me when we get to the top. That was my least prepared moment of my life. I'm actually telling my son it's
okay to drink from the waterfall. You know, we won't get, you know, some sort of weird bug in our intestines. But that was my worst prepared moment in my life. And I use that story whenever I'm talking to people in life insurance or health insurance about why it's so important to be prepared to be able to make sure you have great life insurance in case something bad happens or you've got a good medical plan in case something bad happens. Because when you're not prepared when bad things
happen, it it can turn into a disaster. And then the way I always do it as a storyteller is after I share the worst example around a universal theme, I shared the best example. When my son and I went back to Yosemite Falls, and I comically brought so many bottles of Gatorade and water and snack bars, and we left, you know, at 8 AM and had a great experience
because I was prepared. So these stories that we weave in to even our business pictures will make them, yes, more entertaining, but also make them more memorable. Because people are left remembering the story and remembering the theme or takeaway connected to it, which could be about being prepared, how to cope with anxiety, and how to make life better for the ones you love. Whether it's entertainment or business. The stories that have a universal theme connected are gonna
connect with the most people in the world. You laid this out so well on how to use that universal theme idea in business storytelling. That that is wonderful. And to realize that no matter what you do, you could be an electrician or a plumber, but you're not just an electrician. Right? There is a bigger theme involved in that. Oh, yeah. No. Definitely. Whether it's entertainment or or business, I hate to say this, but well, and I don't hate to
say this, but it is the name of my book. The best story wins. So it really is. Whoever weaves the best story and work. They win. You know? And I think in the business setting, what Matthew just said is so relevant because you may find you have a better product, a better service, but somebody without that same quality is doing better than you. Why is that? And it's probably because they're telling a better story.
Absolutely. You mean, this is, you know, this is why you end up binge watching TV shows, why you watch that one movie over and over again. It's it's because it had a great story. And I really see the best leaders, the best CEOs, the best coaches, the best teachers, they are storytellers. You know? They know how to captivate people's attention. Yeah. Alright. Wonderful. Well, Matthew, I have to tell you one of the reasons I invited you on the show again is I, in
particular, wanted to talk about the story spine. But here, we've talked this long already and never got there. So maybe you come back another time and we talk specifically about that. Yeah. Sounds good. You know, it's a challenge inviting someone who makes a living as a storyteller to not go into different story threads. Well, that's what that's what makes it on that one. Yeah. Makes it wonderful. And we didn't even get into
your recent road trip with your uncle. I'm sure there's a lot of stories there. And, of course that next time. Being a park ranger, I always wanna talk about road trips and parks and recreation. So I think we have more to talk about. If we wanna find either of your books or what else you're up to, where can we do that? Well, the best story wins. You can find it on Amazon, on online, at probably many different locations. Right? And so, it's the one with the blue cover
and a light bulb on the front. And then my book, Santa Yeti, which is, you know, it's a children's picture book. You can also find that online, Amazon, Barnes and Noble's, the Santa Yeti or Santa Yeti. So, yeah, you can find those. And then you can also find me online, my website, matthewlunstory.com. Yes. Alright. Well, it's great to have you back, Matthew, and we won't wait so long. We won't wait
3 years for the next time. Alright. Thank you so much, and thank you for listening to the Jodi Mayberry Show. He just likes to hear me talk. It's Sugar Jay.