Foreign. Welcome to the Jody Mayberry Show. Last episode, we had the wonderful Chip Hu as our guest. He's back this episode as we do when there's a guest. He's back to ask me three questions. These questions are not planted by me, not encouraged by me, not suggested by me. I have no idea what Chip is going to ask, but I do know that I'm glad he's back. Hi, Chip. Hey, Jody. Thanks for having me back and give me the opportunity to learn a little
bit more about you. Well, let me start, though. Before Chip gets going on his questions, I will tell the story I didn't get to tell last episode. Before Chip and I were together in Kansas City, he had just made a joke about coming to Kansas City. We'll enjoy a nice can of Fresca together. I get to Kansas City. I'm there for several days, no Fresca. And a group of us are having dinner on the final night. And I pointed that out to Chip that there was no Fresca.
This will give you some insight into how chip is. About 16 minutes later, a random person, random to me, walks in the door with an entire case of Fresca. When I pointed out to Chip that he did not live up to his promise, he got to work on his texting someone on his phone who went to the store, bought a case of Fresca, and brought it into the restaurant. I think that's some insight into who you are, Chip. Well, I don't know. Maybe an insight into the who the people
that I'm connected with are. They can get their hands on Fresca at short notice. But, yeah, we're just trying to think of a. I don't know what the joke was. Right. And no offense to the Fresca people, by the way, make a good product. But it was some obscurity. You know, he was making some obscure joke about some type of drink, and it was between Great Knee High and Fresca. And I came up with Fresca. And, you know, it turns out that's not that
easy to find if, you know, in the Midwest. I didn't realize. Maybe it is. Maybe I. I don't shop in the right places. But Jody threw down the gauntlet, called me out on it, so we had to make it happen. It's good to know people, right? It is good to know people. And I think since then, Chip has received about 38 different text messages of when I've come across Fresca somewhere when I'm traveling the country. Yeah, I love it. I Love hearing from you. Any
excuse to hear from you, but that's always funny. Like, Fresca has become our thing. Yeah, it has. Well, speaking of our thing, what's your first question? Chip? Yeah. Boy, so many. Jody, it's so cool to have somebody here that's so fascinating. But I gotta know, like, for you, what gives your life meaning? So I think I've had a new revelation on this. I may have answered this differently just a couple of months ago, but I took a trip to Chile, southern Chile. My first trip to South America with
the Nature Conservancy. And I traveled with dejuan Rivers, the retired vice president of Disney's Animal Kingdom. Dejuan is very accomplished. Great career at Disney. Retired as a vice president has a window on Main street, which is one of the biggest honors you can get from Disney. And we're down there in Chile with some leaders in conservation meeting with a group that did just saved 325,000 acres of wilderness. They started this group called Puelo Patagonia and a David
and Goliath story, and they saved some wilderness. And during that time, dejuan's listening to the stories of the people from the Nature Conservancy and the Pueblo Patagonia, the locals. And here's this really accomplished guy in Dewan, and he said, look at the work they're doing. I don't feel like I've accomplished very much. They're changing the world. And I started to think I was feeling pretty good about myself with some of the work that I've done. But
Dewan is. Is right. They are really doing some stuff that long after they're gone, even if no one remembers their name, their work will. Will live on. And I was a park ranger for all those years, and that kind of reinspired me to think the work I'm doing now somehow, some way, and I don't know what it is yet, is going to circle back around and I will be able to make an even bigger contribution and footprint in conservation. I think somewhere in the next decade or two,
I'm going to have a chance to leave a big mark there. And understanding that just gets me very inspired. Does it give meaning to the rest of the work I do? Maybe. But it at least inspires me to keep working hard, because eventually that door is going to open. You've learned, Chip, most doors people talk about, when one door opens, another closes. Well, what opens most doors, and it's pressure. And you apply pressure by keep moving, keep working, keep meeting people, and
eventually a door opens. From the pressure you've put on it. So somewhere coming up in the next decade is going to be an opportunity I don't see yet that will allow me to make an even bigger contribution to conservation that I have not done yet. Oh, so fascinating. So fast. And I love your passion for conservation. A little bit of editorial here. I love your passion for conservation. I just like your perspective. You're so
balanced. I think from talking to you, the impression I get is you have a clear understanding that this relationship we have with nature is symbiotic. And there are, you know, there, you know, we're nourished by nature. You know, it gives us life and we owe a debt right back to the planet. But you're so balanced in your approach to it. Right. I always appreciate your perspective. Like, I. I sense a strong desire, a strong love right. In you for all that is nature. And I think that passion
is. It just resonates in anything you do. So I'm not actually fully surprised that when I asked you that question that you immediately went to a context that involved something like the rainforest, something like, you know, conservation. So I loved, I love that. Well, okay. Yes, one, one of these days, Chip, we'll have to get out in nature together, go for a hike. We need to, you know, because I'm, I'm a big hiker. You know, I love it. I love. I did some
hiking in the Smokies. I took a, a six hour detour on my way to Memphis just to spend the night in a cabin in Gatlinburg, get up and go on a hike, then jump back in the car and head back to Memphis. So end up being more like a 13 hour detour. But anytime I get anywhere close to that zip code, you know, I'm zipping down there and I don't know what it is. I've been, you know, the Tetons, the Rockies, you know, all these different places. Hiking the Appalachians, but
there's something about the Smoky Mountains. It's like going to church for me. Right. But I want to go with you because you're an expert. So I'm just a guy out there, you know. You know, around 2016 or so, maybe the year before leading up to it, 2016 was the 100 year anniversary of the National Park Service. They had an. A brilliant marketing campaign called find your park. And I loved it because Yosemite is wonderful park, but it may not be the Chip youth park. The Smokies. Yeah. And
the Smokies may not be it for me. For me It's Glacier National Park. I feel like they just captured it because, yeah, there are some parks that get tremendous attendance. Great Smoky Mountains, Yellowstone, Zion. Tremendous attendance. But there are some parks that you go to, and, you know, that's my park. And I thought find your park campaign was just brilliant, and it really spoke to how people use parks, and I thought that was great. But
we'll move on to your second question. Yeah, no, for sure. We. You and I. I love getting together with you. This is why we could talk forever. So, second question. I'm just. By the way, I'm kind of just making these up on the fly. I think it'd be fun. I didn't want to come with ink prepared. So this question's interesting. I don't know. See where you go with this? So I want you to imagine you're marooned somewhere. Could be on a desert island, wherever. But you're
marooned and you've got your family with you. But other than that, you can have two people with you, two people that aren't in your immediate family. Who would they be and why? Who would you want with you? Oh, my goodness. Okay, so first, the first thought, one has to, I think, be a musician, because we've got to be entertained. Right? And music brings so much joy. And so the first name that came to that was Jason Herod, a dear friend of mine, Fabulous musician. My family loves his music.
So Jason Herod, whether he likes it or not, he's getting marooned on that island with us. Okay, so now the second one. This becomes a. A little trickier, doesn't it? Because the first one's easy. Now the second one, I think someone that could tell good stories. That would be a good one. Right? Because. Although maybe, I don't know, would it make sense, Chip, to have a good cook? I was wondering if you're going to go there. Yeah, now. Now that I'm trying to think. Okay, so we've
got our entertainment. I've got my family. Who else should it be? I don't. This is one of the first times, I think, when we've done these three questions where I maybe haven't given a. Just a solid answer because I think this second one, I. I need to ponder what's the biggest priority. So it's almost like having three wishes from a genie. And then the first one I just used for pure entertainment purposes. Okay. But now we need to survive. So. So what comes
next? I don't know. Are you a good cook, Chip? Maybe it's you. I am not I'm good at Uber eats. I, I am not. Which would not be relevant in that context, I will tell you. I, I just wanted to see where you were going to go. And the reason I gave you two was to see how you spent that first one. And it's so interesting to me, that says so much about you, right, that you immediately went to music, you immediately went to entertainment, you immediately went to, you know,
that's a piece of spirituality. It's so funny because, you know, you would think from, if you were thinking logically and practically, it'd be about survival, right? I want somebody there that can build shelter, that can hunt, that can prepare food, but it's not where you went. And I think that's so cool. I think that's so cool that you didn't go there. Says a lot about you. Well, it's interesting I didn't know that's why you asked, but I still feel like,
gosh, why I didn't come up with a good second one. But I will also say, you know, this chip from your work in law enforcement now, your work with the Arbinger Institute at. Almost every decision, almost not, I won't say 100% because there are times it's not almost every decision is emotional that we then give a logical reason to just because we made that decision anyway. So yeah, that, I think that's, that is true in every situation. It's always emotional
decision. It feels true. You know, Jonathan Haidt wrote a book called the Happiness Hypothesis. He talks a bit about that in his work, all of his research. He talks a bit about that concept that, that post hoc rationalization of an intuitive decision. I think experientially that's true for me. I tend to make a lot of my decisions are knee jerk and then I come, I bring that thinking mind on after the fact to rationalize it. But
it's just so interesting. I think just in my mind it's like music, entertainment, connection, those are unimportant things. And I think when all we do is think logically, when all we do is try to apply, you know, rationality to a situation, we miss out a lot on what really makes us human. And so anyway, look, that's, I'm belaboring that, but I think that's a fascinating answer. Okay, so last one, this one will be a little easier looking out in
the next year. What do you have coming down the pike, personally or professionally that you feel really excited about? Oh my goodness. I was thinking about this this morning. So it's Fun that you asked it that I feel like every once in a while I go through some spells where I don't have enough coming to keep me excited that I get so wrapped up in. Oh, there's two all these projects right now, but there's not enough coming.
It's almost like a vacation. If you're going to Glacier national park, the six months prior are almost as delicious as the four days you spend there thinking about it, planning it, dreaming about it. And that is true for the work I do. Maybe you have felt that too, Chip, that if I don't have enough good projects down the road to say I look at what's coming to keep me excited, then even the good stuff I'm working on now, I can start to lose interest in,
which is kind of bad to admit, but it's true. And I feel like, my goodness, there's some really good stuff coming. There are some good stuff coming in the next year that has me excited where Lee Cockrell and I have the Cockrell Academy. And so we've got some good stuff coming there. We've got. In October, I've got a workshop in Orlando. I've got a mastermind with Lee coming. I finally, I'm pretty sure within the next year. This has been an ongoing source of. It's been a
thorn for many quite a while. And it comes up on this episode that I've never finished my book. I will have a book completed within the next year. And then personally, my youngest just graduated from high school. A lot of family changes coming, so maybe it's. I don't know, maybe is it time to go elsewhere? I don't, I'm not sure. Maybe Kansas City. Have some of those delicious burnt ends that you're famous for. Yeah, you're always welcome, my friend. What a fascinating answer. Look, thank
you for the opportunity to come back on. Thank you for the opportunity to. To get curious about you as a person. You know, you're fascinating and that's so interesting. Yeah, it's so fun. You can know people, but sometimes, like, there's so much depth to them that if you ask the right question, it can take you down to some pretty interesting roads. So thank you. What a gift. Well, I think I'm glad you came back and what you just said.
We learned that last episode when I thought we were going to go one way, but the chance came to go deep into your family and we went for it. And that was stuff I never knew, had never heard before. Well, and thank you for the opportunity. Stuff I don't get to talk about a lot. We aren't the kind of people that sit around talking about how proud we are of each
other. You know, we just don't simply talk that way. You know, we always talked about being about it instead of talking about it and just having the opportunity to actually share with you from the heart, you know, just in an unscripted, kind of spontaneous way. When you ask that question of, you know, what do I really feel toward my family and how important are they really? Oh, my. When I pause and reflect, turns out they're critically important. So thank you for that, and again,
thank you for this time. Oh, I've got one more family question to tie back to last time. If I'm Dan Cockrell and I'm going to sneak up. All you and all your siblings are sitting with their back to me, and I'm going to sneak up on someone and put them in a headlock, which would be the worst person to sneak up on and put it in the headlock. The worst. Yeah. You and your siblings, which is. Be the worst idea to put them in a headlock. I think you. I
thought you were going to say the. Which would be the best one. I'm not ready for the word. The worst. Oh, my. See, Vern's a jiu jitsu player. That's a bad idea. Mike is tougher than woodpecker lips. You know Mike. Yeah, he. Yeah. And he's not afraid of being. He's got a good ground game, too. He's not afraid of being strangled. My sister. We'll just take my sister off the table. You do not want to mess with my sister. Yeah, no. You'd rather give a belly rub to a panther than
to mess with my sister. So we'll keep her off. She kick all her butts. We keep her off the table. My brother Mark's too big to get your hand around, you know, as far as, like, he's tall. He's like. You reach up there and grab him. Yeah, I guess it'd probably be me. It'd probably be. Oh, no. You said. I'm sorry, I'm messing this up. You said the one you don't want to. The one you don't want to. Okay. Yeah. Okay, let me rewind the tape. I'm going through my mental math
here. The one you don't want to is my sister. Yeah, I would not mess with my sister. That'd be the one that. Because she. She just. Yeah, she'd be like a wildcat, like a pole cat caught in A canvas bag. Yeah. She would tear you up for sure. People have underestimated her at their peril on numerous occasions. I'm so nervous, I can't even get my words out when I think about how tough she is. So, yeah, tell Dan he lucked out that he went with Mike. Do not go with Mary. Do not
go with my sister Mary. All right, well, I want to mention the podcast one more time that Chip is involved in. It's a great show, leading outward. And one. One thing I thought about in between episodes, Chip, we talked about how your law enforcement experience then prepared you to be a corporate consultant, which. That's how everything's built. It just your experience gets you ready for the next thing.
And you had a wonderful podcast for quite a while with Tanner Brock called Changing Discourse, which put you in the ideal position now to contribute to the Arbinger Institute podcast. Yeah. What I learned from Tanner. Tanner carried the water on that show. Jody, you know this. I mean, people listening know this. Tanner did all the work on that show. All I did was show up and run my mouth, and he made it so that I could do that. You know, he was the brains behind that operation. And we
just didn't know. We were kind of like plunking around a little bit. Covid, let's have some conversations. Let's learn some things. We had no idea what the potential for that was. We were shocked at how much it blew up. But Tanner, I learned so much from Tanner that this is a different experience with leading outward because there's a production team versus just Tanner doing all the work as a one man show. But the things that I learned from him have definitely carried over and
it's been so helpful. It was almost like that was a great experience to provide a foundation for me. So I'm walking into this. I'm not totally. It's not totally foreign to me. The format's a little different. That was just a extemporaneous conversation. Right? This format's a little different in the sense that, you know, there's blended content. But no, I think I. I owe great debt to Tanner for introducing me. He only twisted my arm. He's the one that convinced me to do. I
didn't want any part of that. Like, you know, he was. I didn't think there was a market for it. I'm like, you know, I wasn't listening to podcasts. I wasn't, you know, no offense to you and your. In your expertise, but I was still reading books and still am, but, I mean, that was My downtime was spent doing things like that, and I now podcast. You guys have gotten me to the point where I'm like. It's hard
to stay away from them. Like, I'm to the point where I'm like, man, there's so much fascinating content out there, but no Tanner. Shout out to Tanner Brock, everybody. What a great friend, what a great person, what a great service he. He gave to me by. By convincing me to take this on and this challenge on. Of. Of doing a podcast. And I think that podcast was. I think it stands up. I think it was a good podcast. Jody, you've been on there. You were on
there. Yeah, that's right. It was great podcast. You and Tanner did great work. We even recorded in person a couple of times, which we did. Really fun to record in person. I think you brought the equipment, if I remember right, so. Yeah, that's right. I did. I did. So if you enjoyed hearing Chip on this episode and last episode, find Leading Outward. That's the podcast with the Harbinger Institute. I think you'll enjoy it. So thank you again for coming back.
Chip and I will join you in Kansas City for some burnt ends very soon. It's on me, brother. It's on me. All you gotta do is show up. All right, thank you so much, and thank you for listening to the Jody Mayberry Show. He's built like a brick Dunny. It's Sugar J.