What is to be Done? w/ Nick Griffin: The J. Burden Show Ep. 423

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the sort of great edge of things. And so obviously I'm familiar with who you are and what you've done, but some of my audience might not be. So who are you and what do you do.

feel at all, but there you go. Then I was involved in the National fronts, first of as an ordinary activist, then as a serious campaigner leader at one time, and then switched in the early nineteen nineties from the National Front which was finished to the British National Party, which I took from being a frankly bad electoral joke called bad political joke into being an organization which was the first serious electoral challenge in electoral insurgency against the uniparty

in Britain from the right briddit they'd ever had. And for more than ten years, it's more than fourteen nearness in every single election in Britain there was whatever the main election issue was, plus the secondary thing was always about the British National Party and the threat of the British National Party. So we gave the political elite literally nightmares for more than ten years. And although in the end politically we failed, we were the ones who broke

the logjam. Before we were around in a threat, the old parties were able simply not to talk about certain issues, particularly about immigration and the grooming gang scandal, and we forced them to talk about that because they realized if they wouldn't talk about it and at least pretend to think about doing something more people would turn to us.

Even more important than that, in the course of blocking the British National Party, the BBC particularly but the whole of the liberal media actively promoted Nigel Farage on an amazing scale. It was frankly, it was almost obscene to have these anti British pro European Union organizations, especially the BBC, promoting Farage and it's quite open to block us. So the law of unintended consequences is a very powerful thing

in politics. He do something for one purpose and you know, things happened as a consequence he didn't intend, and in this case, in blocking US, by boosting Farage in UKIP as it was at that time, they actually created a monster which in the enforced a referendum, got Brexit, arguably for good or ell therefore helped get Trump elected because in his first election campaign, Farage's presence and recent success was a very big thing, and basically it led to

where we are today, which is, for now a year the Farag's new party, Reform has been leading the opinion polls, sometimes having almost as many people supporting it as both the previous parties of government that's in it, you know, the Labor Party and the Tories, your Democrats, your Republicans. This electual surgency sprang from the fact that the British National Party broke the mold.

of those major boogeymen. So I'm curious to what degree has that affected you, right, being this sort of national boogeyman, right, this sort of symbol of eternal evil.

there's busts of previous parliamentarians. Powell was a great parliamentarian and it would have been quite normal, vise busts to have ended up somewhere in Parliament, perhaps in a corridor, but it should have been there. And of course the liberal left elite, which includes the Conservative Party, at one stage his party refused to have him, which is how I ended up with this bust. It should be sat

in the House of Commons, but it isn't. It's here with me because Powell was demonized, but not as much as I was demonized. So as you said, what effect did it have on me? Well, for at least twenty years, I didn't walk down a street anywhere in this country without just looking around as I'm going, just keeping an eye open. There's a skit there, there's some rubbish there, so there's a bottle there, there's a brick there, there's a lump of wood there. That's a potential weapon for

someone against me. Push comes to sharvit to potential weapon for me against an assailant, so I don't think that's normal actually to live your life like that. And I've never done a Caine, yes, So that was really how it is. My children were young and at school. So when, for instance, in one of my trials, my daughter had just gone up to her senior school at the age of eleven, and they had to repaint the girl's toilets twice because it was covered in graffiti against my eleven

year old daughter and her dad. My wife was a very very senior level and very skilled specialist nurse, and she was repeatedly given top level nursing awards, which the nursing press would report on. Yes, within twenty four hours that report was down because the usual suspects stalking me and everything to do with me would have got into touch with the nursing press saying get that off. Don't you realize whose wife that is? She should have had national awards and one of the awards whereby you go

and meet the queen or king and get it. She should have had one of those, never did because she was my wife. So in family terms, it's been quite hard at times. On the other hand, it's been tremendous fun. You know. I was told many years ago by one of the see if people think, my god, he's old with fifty years of experience. On top of that, I've got to a degree in the experience of people I knew when I was young. So when I was young, there were people involved in the movements who'd been with

Moseley at Cable Street. And the length of time between Cable Street and then my early involvement was shorter than the time that I've been involved in politics. So there's one hell of a lot of experience that I can go back to. There. One of the old hands so to me when I was very young, first getting involved, he said, look, Nick, what you've got to decide with your life is are you really going to do something with your life or just go through it? And he says,

how delicate are your audience? Does the occasional Anglo saxon word right and them on on right? Fine? Believe everyone's born, everyone eats, so everyone shats, everyone fucks, everyone dies, or you can do something with your life which actually makes a difference. And the first thing is to find the right girl, get married, have children, And the second thing is to do something that makes a difference. And that I've done and I haven't finished yet.

and or bankrupted me. I've been bankrupted twice. First time was actually largely just you know, personal thing, the way you're trying to get things done and all the rest of it that was just a property that was properly stuff. The second time, the bankruptcy was purely law fair by the British State. So yeah, I've had lots of it,

but no, it doesn't matter because I believe it. Yeah, absolutely, I was offered a I studied law at Cambridge University, got the degree, and was a little bit after a little one after that, offered a place at a really good barrister's chambers, that's the barristers an advocate, I think you'd say, But it was on condition that it gave

up politics. So I said, no, that's it. So I could have had a far more comfortable life somewhere else, but it wouldn't have been such an interesting life, nor I believe such a good life, whether you believe my own.

particularly religious and by that we mean Christian male, to become part of that coalition. Yes, you can either become entirely self effacing. You can become embarrassed of yourself. I guess you could put on address that might help. To be honest, there isn't really an option, and so that that bribery right to sort of ignore what you see going on is much more difficult. And you know, you could look at that and say, you know, there is

a dispossession in that, and I certainly agree. But on the other hand, if you believe that you and I are right, and obviously both of us do incredible accelerant to our cars. Because again there really are there are a few options. A choice must be made, so you mentioned earlier.

you know, youngsters thought like me. When I was even in the National Front, I was then surrounded by young lads who thought exactly like me, but they were all working class kids. I was a middle class kid, So I was victually completely alone in that. Whereas youngsters making that move now, well, I think in many places you'd be the odd one out. Now if, as a young lad, certainly the age of fifteen sixteen, to be a leftist, to be a multiculturalist, be pro feminist, you'd be a freak.

So to that extent, it's to that extent it's easier. One more thing on that before we come back to your next point that if any of your young viewers now or in the future, of someone finding this perhaps at some point is in this position, perhaps they've just

been doxed, or they're afraid of being doxed. I put on substack one of the first things I wrote, it's a couple of months ago now, a letter to a young doxed nationalist and honestly anyone, And it was actually a letter which I wrote to a real young American nationalist. I won't give his name a few years ago, so I put it on there, and I really put a lot of thoughts into that. I value what this young app was doing. Put a lot of thoughts into it. Is a lot of my experiences. It's a heartfelt piece.

If anyone's worried about being doxed or is just it's happened, and it's the end of the world, go on, substack on mine, Nick Griffin, beyond the Pale and find that letter to a doxed young nationalist, and I hope it'll give you some comfort and guidance. So now back over

to you, Jack. Sorry, no, no, not at all. And that exact dynamic you're talking about where you and many others were alone right kind of these these voices from the wilderness, is precisely why I enjoy talking to you, because you were early adopters, right well ahead of the curve, identifying trends that it you know, as of current writing are almost so obvious it's not worth pointing them out right like, we don't need to, we don't need to,

we don't need to justify claims about replacement migration. You can look.

But the implication is there, of course, because it is we are telling everyone else, however unhinged, where you live, what you do, what your name is, and the most uncharitable view of how you are a threat to this kind of godless you know, satanic globalist state religion. Kind of joking, but also kind of not when I say that. And so if you wouldn't mind just kind of briefly summarizing your remarks, because I'm really interested to get your take on that, we'll give.

was a rather sports based college. No one really David Danham so to the college within the within Cambridge University for the rest of the university didn't know, and Cambridge University at Oxford as well. They each have a very famous institution, the Union, which is a debating society. And I hadn't been at the UNI for more than a few weeks when there was a debate in the Cambridge Union on the subject this House would ban the National Front. So I went in arms. I was a member of

the of the Union. I've been to a few of the debates, hadn't spoken and this came up, and then it was you got to the station of the debate for points from the floor. So I got up and went to the front and spoke for the motion as a member of the National Front. I said, because I wanted to defeat the motion was the point. So I spoke for the motion, saying, look, we're a revolutionary organization.

All revolutionary organizations have to be hardened by a period of be legat of persecution and illegality, therefore bringing up to much of the discomfort of the other people proposing and supporusing the motion. Anyway, the motion was rejected and I walked out, and really, other than being quite pleased with myself because I'd heard several people say that was a really good speech from the n F bloke, but

that was it. Thought nothing more of it until two days later a knock on my dig's door and there's two reporters from the student paper. So the next issue I'm on the front page. At one point not long after that, they actually then they printed a picture of the digs that I lived in, with an arrow an anti Nazi League garrow, pointing to the window that they thought I lived in. Funnily enough, it was a window of another room occupied by the chairman of the College

Gay Society. He was both livid and terrify. It was the only time we ever spoke to me. But even as he found out, as I found out, their bark is far worse than their bite. And the only thing, the only thing actually frightened of is being frightened. And they never do anything. Anyone who threatens you, especially anonymously. Yeah, but well no even even with their with their own name and so on, anyone who threatens you, they're not going to do it because they were going to do it.

They wouldn't threaten you because it's put you on alert and it's put them possibly at legal risks, so they're not going to So after this, the University Socialist Workers' Party said I had to be driven out of the town. There's no campus in Cambridge of Oxford, it's as part of the town, so driven out of the town. If you see him, attack him on site, all of this, blah blah blah. I had an advantage in that by this stage I was in the university boxing team, so

it didn't occur to them. I was a featherweight than a lightweight and actually not particularly dangerous, but I was

dangerous enough anyway, so they left me alone. But at one point, when there was lots of threats, I scouted around in a builder's skip and I got six or seven pieces of rebar offcuts of lumps of steel and I went along my route between my college where we go to eat and tutorials and so on, and my digs, and every thirty yards or so, I had a piece of this rebar stuck in a hedge someway somewhere say fifty yards. So I was never more than twenty five

yards from one of my pieces of rebar. So if I get jumped by three or four scumbags, I've only got to get twenty five yards and I've got the drop on them. Never needed it. That's the thing. So you have to have the mentality that you're prepared to face this and deal with it. And in the end, someone slaps you around at that age, you play rugby, you're boxing or whatever, you get more injury. I know you don't, because you've got that silly, faggy American football game.

You'll pad it up. If you're actually your bricks or ossies or kiwis or whatever, you play proper rugby, you're going to get far worse in that probably than someone slaps you in the street. That's about it. The only thing you might lose, really seriously, you're going to lose a career in the law. You're going to lose a big money making career. Probably, do you know what, the best thing that's ever happened to you. Because if you go into that big money making career, the girls you're

going to meet are all from the same background. They've all been through the university, the top university mill and if they're not the lesbians, they're certainly feminists, or at the very best, they're careerists. Even if you marry one of them, she's not going to consent even think about having kids till she's thirty eight, by which time it's probably too late. You're going to get one child too. At the very most, you'll probably be divorced in four

or five years. In any case, it's a disaster. You're again to get slightly coarse. If you go fishing in a sewer, you'll catch a third on your stick, on your hook andish. If you're looking for a girl, for a woman, for a life partner, for your wife, in a university setting or amongst women who've been to university,

you're going to catch a feminist third. You've got. The place you'll find a decent woman is in a working class, a lower middle class, white man van type environment, or at church someone like that, an ordinary decent girl without the pretensions of one who's been to a best university. So if you're up there with the money and so on, you're not going to fight the right find the right girl. You're not going to have a fami money. And in the end that sort really counts. You'll have a stack

of money for working. What is it forty five weeks of the year in the case of law in a place where you try to jail someone who is innocent or get someone who's off who's guilty, And in any case, you're in an airless box with no windows, no lights, no nothing natural. It's a horri wine on earth? Would you want to do that to yourself? In order? You've got enough money so that for four weeks of the year, five weeks of the year, you can go skiing one week and you got to Florida another week, go on

a boat and that's it. Whereas if you've got a proper trade, any dealing with real decent, normal people, and you're out in the open air, or you're doing things with decent people instead of criminal scumbags and lawyers who are among the worst criminal scumbags of the lot. So when people say to me, he has to saying what should I do again with my future? I say, now,

for Heaven's sake, don't go to university. Don't get a mountain of debt and a degree which fits you to do something which AI can do in any case in all probability, or which is in a lifestyle which is horrible. Go out and get a trade where you're in touch with real people, and if push comes to sharp, if things go really bad, you've got a cash trade, or you can go and do a job of someone, you can barter, and it's just a better way of being.

You're better as an honest working man, especially now as a white man, than you are in the upper echularms, which are full of affirmative action. What have you got? You've got Jews, Indians, blacks, feminists, lesbians, trans they're all above you automatically because of what they are and because of what you are. If you're in a trade, how many out of them are in competition with a plumber, a brick layer, an engineer, or a motor mechanic.

I can't remember who did that peace talking about you know, after the pandemic, corporate America vowed to hire more people of color, and they showing that of new hires over ninety percent are not the largest working demographic in America. And so this adds another element, which is, let's say that you know, there's a you know, a young man listening to you, Nick who says, this guy's an idiot, he doesn't know what he's talking about. Okay, can you even do that? Is it actually possible for you to

get that corporate job? Because look, you know before actually I was actually starting my podcast then. But you know, when I left university, right with a good degree from a top program, what I ended up working finance is completely useless nonsense. But point is right, the sort of degree that that you know, well meaning older conservatives tell you that will guarantee you a job, right, that the

sort of you know, technical degrees. I worked for a year in a factory, right, and there's nothing wrong with that, but it simply was not an option for me. There were no jobs to be had. And look, you know I wouldn't necessarily recommend working at that factory for any number of reasons. But at the same time, right, again, is that even a career possibility that's opened to you. So there's one thing I want to get into because as an American, this is something that I'm sort of

fascinated and mystified by, which is British class dynamics. Right, It's a much more class based society, and in discussions of Brexit, in discussions of nationalism, I see a lot of just class snobbery, right, the term gammin, right, this idea that you know, anyone who doesn't want to turn your island into you know, a multicultural paradise is some sort of you know, obese, red faced, inbred, alcoholic their words,

not mine, of course. So can you explain because you mentioned it as well talking about how it's the majority of NF porters were you know, working class. So can you explain the relation between class and the issue of immigration and also the grooming gangs by extension.

it's experience and fear. There's the experience of what you're living in and throughout the late sixties when it really started, the seventies, the eighties, of the nineties, the two thousands, the only people who are having to put up with large numbers of immigrants, and especially the ones who are the worst behaved, which generally is either the not the

first generation save West Indians who came in. They were quite well behaved, most of them, but the second the you get the second generation kids who instead of going to a decent having gone to a decent little probably church school somewhere outside TriNet outside Jamestown have gone to a sink comprehensive state system school where there's no discipline whatsoever, and they're feral. You know, they're really really dangerous to everybody.

They're primarily dangerous to themselves and they're fellows before the dangerous to anybody else. Black on black crime has been a huge thing in London, say for years, but those people, or the Pakistani grooming gangs, and also a lot of it's forgotten at the time that we were talking about the grooming issue, and even bigger issue was racist tacks on white lads, so instead of grooming and sex attacks, it was brutal beatings and stabbings, and both these have

preceded somewhat for various reasons. But in the nineties and the two thousands especially, these were huge issues, huge problems, but they only affected working class communities because that's where the immigrants had gone because housing was cheap, whether they were buying it or that it was rented, it's where they were sent. When councils were sending they weren't sending into bosh areas. They were sending into working class areas. So the only the people on the sharp end of

the troubles that came with immigrants. A lot of them are perfectly decent people. They don't give you trouble, but they're in competition with you for jobs, so it's a different form of trouble. They're in competition with you for houses. It's a different form of trouble, but it's trouble with them, and that only affected the working class until very recently.

So we now get this demonstrations now all over this country every weekend, almost every day, actually in much more middle class areas where the government are now putting the thoroughly illegal boat people have come across across the Channel. All of them are almost all of them undocumented, males of fighting age and unvetted as well as automatic. They're putting them down in quite middle class areas.

the first vowel gives you the class. And I hear these people desperately complaining about how it's they can't even sell their house now, you know, it's terrible, and they they worry about their daughter coming home from school and all the rest of it. And I do sometimes think not one of you people voted British National Party, all of you fifteen twenty years ago, who would have looked down in noses that someone who said there would bemp

because it's beneath you, because it's so working class. It's sewing for a dick. It's thoroughly unacceptable, and you're obviously stupid and uneducated. And occasionally I got the little bit of sharpenfreuder. You know, you really shouldn't feel like this, but sometimes you can't help yourself. So there's that. So that's one reason it was a working class thing. And it's now changing quite a lot, not least because it's

not just now communities have got these problems. But again, middle class white kids, who white boys, who thirty years ago had no issue at all with immigration. Now like you in America, they know that even the god of university, they're at the bottom of the hiring heat. So it's affecting them, so it's changed them around. The Other thing is the the social costs are being involved in a nationalist or anti immigration movement, that it's you will not

you can't get the higher promotion. People will be shocked at a dinner party and so on. Those social costs don't affect working class people anything like as much as they do people from the middle of the upper classes, because everybody in the path feels the same way. And I can go into one of the locals around here, and what they call casual racism do you get from people most my hair stand on in quite friendly? Yeah, it's really it's so over the top, you know, cruel

and illegal. Oh no sake, Yeah, there's nothing that I would have said ever like you're getting here. It's quite routined. So there's no social cost anymore for or wasn't even back in the key days. There wasn't that social class cost for working class people that there was for the others.

And the greatest betrayal of all in Britain naturally is not well it's partly what, yes, what are elites done to us, but also the great portrayal of the great cowardice is what the British middle class and upper middle class did when all this has happened, which was precisely nothing because they thought it wouldn't happen to them and

they were afraid to speak out about it. And you can't have an army, whether it's a physical, fighting military army or a political army, you can't have an effective army with our officers on the officer class of Britain hid for fifty years while our country went down the tube. Are there only now just started to come out. I put the nose, but the parapet Yeah, because it's a little bit safer to come out, and because now they.

right repairing crash cards. His entire career. And it's funny because you know, thirty years ago he would have described himself as a socialist. I've heard him say that, but you dig down and you realize what he actually is. He's an old school organized labor guy, right, and he viewed immigrants's scabs basically as someone who could take his job and do it for less. And now, of course he's you know, the the most Trump supporting man in America, But to that point, that was a very low class thing.

People always, you know, talk to him as if he were crazy, right, as if he were this kind of

you know, stereotypical, you know, crazed redneck. And I think as well, right on that point, that sort of social control, that ability to signal what is high status behavior is particularly effective on the middle class because, as I'm sure you're aware, middle class people always want to be a to appear to be upwardly mobile, right, to appear to have exactly the right beliefs, exactly the right diet, exactly the right clothing, and even now, right in a situation

where many people in that demographic are being absolutely demolished by immigration, and I share that shotten for it, right, there's a certain part of me, and it's like, oh, okay, so finally you had to feel the problem. But at the same time, it's almost like that that social reward is valued higher than their you know, economic or cultural, cultural, I guess, but the actual you know, money in their pocket,

so to speak. It's incredibly frustrating. One of the other things, and I'm glad you brought it up, is the the middle class in Britain is incredibly incredibly left wing in a way that I have sort of a hard way or a hard time understanding. I think of like the Guardian reader type. Is that because of that sort of social pressure or is there another dynamic at play there.

So it's the management side of the socialist experiment of the socialist utopia, and they have to be loyal to that because otherwise they're in deep, deep trouble. And then I ain't very often because people generally, unless they're psychopaths, they want to feel that, you know, they're good people. So there's all this pressure to rationalize what they're doing.

So they're there now, for instance, teaching kids all the trends stuff, and they know that's wrong, but because their job depends on it, they'll rationalize that that well, it's you know, it's it's all about tolerance and you know, all the rest of it. So there's a huge kind of self interest in the left wing middle class. But the left wing middle class, the Guardian readers and so on, as I say, they are if they're not in the the welfare management sector, they are in the media. That's basic.

That's basically it. The rest of people. If a middle class person, as it's a the owner of a small business, the people working for themselves or working in private companies, whether it's salesmen or whatever, they they're nothing like Guardian readers. The Guardian sells so few papers it's almost gone now because it's all question of online and adverts. When for

the last. The Guardian only survived the two thousands, the two thousand and tens because because it was lost making all the time, the only thing that kept it afloat was basically every Thursday there was the Guardian Jobs a special huge extra section and every single council, particularly the labour ones. But even in the conservative run councils, the administration is run by the left, so that the right wing reactionary types might control the council chamber, the administration

is run by the left. So every single job, for every every single advert for every single job was put through the Guardian. That's what kept the Guardian going because it had a circulation anker with something one hundred and seventy thousand. That was it. So this isn't a huge not a huge class, but you know the Guardian readers. Now it's bigger now because it's now online and so that's how it survives. But it's not an enormous class.

It looks big and it's got enormous power, and I suppose what is rather large because okay, some of the people working for the state are sweeping street men. In all the nurses or whatever, they are thirty decent, normal people, and they think are you and I but the people, the management class and so on. Yep, they are extremely left wing for the reasons I've said so.

can probably tell, this is a different recording. We had some technical difficulties now sorted, but these recordings will be stitched together. Just an update if the conversation seems to end off and begin somewhere completely alt. But Nick, one of the things that I have noticed, Look, you know, I'm American. The American nationalists scene and the European and British nationalist scene certainly has some crossovers, but there's some

significant difference. And one of the ones that I'm curious to get your opinion on is the relative role of religion America, especially for a first world country is quite religious, unusually so, and our nationalists tend to lean into that. I see less of that certainly coming from the continent, but you know, relatively speaking, less coming from England as well.

So if you could, could you speak to you know, obviously, you know, we can talk about your personal relationship to religion, but how what is the intersection like in your country between you know, right wing nativist politics and religion.

from that. Regarded myself in my early twenties as the sort of sort of ecopagan, slightly odinist type that appeals to many young nationalists, you know, has done for decades, and then, particularly as I look more at the problem with Islamification, the answer that Christianity is the way to

oppose this became stronger and stronger. So I started off sort of as a cultural Christian and then became more of a believing Christian personally, I would now be an Orthodox in a Russian Orthodox Christian for a number of reasons. Although it's got the word Russian in it, it's actually very much a national church in each place. It speaks

to me in all sorts of ways. But coming from an Anglican origin, I simply can't believe in transubstantiation the idea that are the bread and the wine become literally in the body of Christ. I'm sort of too Protestant for that innately, so I feel I can't, without being a hypocrite, say I'm absolutely Orthodox. But that's sort of where I am, really and truly definitely a believe a humble believing Crists. Not a particularly good one, of course,

but there we go. As for the cultural differences between America and Britain, it's shrinking to some extent, certainly in the British nationalist scene, which is becoming increasingly religious, to say, partly as a reaction to the islam adicle. So also the blatantly atheist problem, all the trans and all the rest of it. It's not really a political ideology we're facing. It's a different form of religion. So therefore it's natural for people to drift back and move back towards Christianity.

But the fundamental difference between America and Britain is speaking as a Christian and with the greatest respect to America, every religious lunatic from the whole of Europe went to America for four hundred years. So you are selectively bred for religious mania in a way that none of the rest of us are. So it's actually something that American

nationalists of a pagan bent need to really understand. Ye, your people are deeply fundamentally in every way, shape and form, if you've got any routes at all, they are Christian and Christian dissident at that, which is really what you want to make revolutions and rebellions out of. So that's

the difference. Having said which I reiterate again in well, going back to when I was on the steps of Leeds Crown Court, when I was being prosecuted with a potential seven year sentence for speaking out about the grooming issue, I bought to that someone sent me just out of the blue. It just came addressed to Nick Griffin Leeds

Crown Courts. Every day the usher of the court brought me a big pile of post from all over the country and for all over the world, and people had written to me because they've seen what was going on to support me, and some unknown persons sent me a

wooden cross about that bee. It's a plain Protestant wooden cross, and I took that and I used that held up to the big BNP crowd outside the court at one point and we prayed the Lord's Prayer and so on, and that was really the first public iteration of connecting Christianity and nationalism in Britain, I think almost ever, apart from the fact that National Front in years back used to hold a Remembrance Day service in central London, which

is obviously automatically a religious thing. Apart from that, Mosley and Co. And then the early National Front, it was all It wasn't anti Christian, but it was completely cut off. It was absolutely the old English or Protestant tradition of separation of church and state. And that first time outside of Leeds Crown Court was the beginning of that change.

And it's now gone a long long way, so that when I was your age, a young nationalist professing Christianity would have in Britain would have been on the earth. Is this you know? It's an individual quirk in Peter Heart. It's got nothing to do with the rest of us. Now, I would say it's probably more common than not. So this is a big change. So we're moving more towards being like you are in the States.

a religious divide, right. The North, which now is quite a Christian was effectively all of the most innovative forms of religion, right, the Quakers, the Shakers, the Puritans, and you know, over the course of two hundred years, they effectively burned themselves out of religion.

And honestly, look, I am neither orthodox nor pagan. But I have a great many friends who are in both of those groups, so I'll be polite, of course, but I understand the especially in the American context, the revulsion towards mass market Protestantism, particularly as regards the Zionist issue. I one hundred percent understand it, yep. But at the same time, the sort of best of America, right the flyover states are quite religious, and you're really never going

to get them to stop doing that. And so if your project involved some sort of you know, mass odentic conversion, I mean, it's not going to happen. It's not going to happen, you know, regardless on that point. And it is an interesting Joel Davis, who I don't pretend to know well, although you know he is undergoing his own persecution.

You know, it says this, and I'll butcher the quote, but he talks about, you know, the effectively white countries were made great under the Church and without that day of withered and something I notice, and this is applies to you know, both the kind of very unchurched areas of my country as well as you know, continental Europe and England as well, where regardless of why, and we can debate why it seems that the only people actually

having children, actually reproducing their culture are extremely religious one way or another. And look, I am, you know, a believing Christian. I try not to speak on it too much, just because no one should look to me or ice on theological issues. But at a at a very basic level, I don't understand how you replicate a culture through generations

without that, setting aside any theological claim. And you know, we are in an era of massively declining birth rates, so on a fundamental level, I don't understand how you escape that without some sort of religious tradition.

to be an uglier, rougher world. And for people to have children it's hard enough now, but to have children, to have the faith, to have children in a world that is patently ugly and getting worse. It's not a rational decision to have children, I'm afraid it can only either be based on a selfish love and wanting to preserve and extend your own line, which is a very very good thing. But more than that, it's going to be backed up by something else. It's not going to

be backed up by the eventual European recovery. The Rayconquista, which fundamentally, even the Ray Conquistor of Spain wasn't just by any means, about military ray Conquista. It was about the actual Christian Spanish having a higher birth rate than the areas of the occupied Spain, which were basically afflicted with Islamic systemic cultural failure. The birth rate comes from that Christianity, and especially in hard times, where else can it come from. So yeah, even if someone doesn't believe,

like you said, leave aside the theological stuff. Even if someone doesn't believe, even if they look back and say, well, Christianity gave us liberalism, universalism, feminism, communism, whatever. Even if they don't counter that by saying no, Christianity gave us the things that you regard as are people's highest achievements, whether it's the cathedrals and the music and art of of the High European period, or whether it's the actual

wonders of modern technology. All of it comes from Christianity. But even if you set aside the rights and the wrongs of that, and the theological rights and wrongs, you've just got to look and think, well, if I was going to on this sheet of paper work out the other fifteen or twenty five points whatever it is for our recovery, because the birth, a higher birth rate is so much part of it, you have to look, where is that higher birth rate going to come from? And

there's only two possible answers. Really, there's an ideological commitment by a state saying, right, we're going to pay women to stay at home and have lots of children, We're going to tax people who don't have kids, and all the rest of it, or it has to come from the individual or the community, since very clearly there is, and Trump's rowing back even on what little has been done in Minnesota shows the case when even a man who basically is the nearest to a Roman emperor that

we've seen for two thousand years, when even he can't actually get to begin to get grips with addressing the demographic problem. It's patently obvious it's not going to come from above, from the state. It can only come from us, people like you, your children, my grandchildren, can only come for us. I mean, so, what's the key thing on the list which if you were going to design a program which will give those people the biggest chance of having bigger families, you would say, well, it's got to

be religiosity. So do we want them to be fundamentalist Jews?

progressive types, it's closer to six and ten. They also tend to reproduce much less, so you can see over time this is selection. Now obviously, like the fly in the ointment is immigration. Clearly that's why they are so desperate to cram it down our throats. It's to effectively, you know, in their minds and politics, right, just simply replace who they rule over to become the gayest kings possible.

But I mean, it's one of those things that obviously there's a literal like political advantage, but to your point, it's really not a rational decision. Very few people get into this by you know, tabulating figures on a spreadsheet and saying, oh, well, this will increase my net. I don't know even know how you'd measure such a thing

over the course of my life. But it really is a war of belief, right, And this is the thing that I've found kind of interesting watching you know, and it happens, and pick your favorite event from the headlines that at a certain point the actual material facts of what are happening don't really matter because there's so much spent on it. There's so many different narratives on it. So for instance, right, these as I'm sure you've heard

several people have gotten shot in Minnesota. There's you know a number of people who've spent hours of their time going through that event forensically. But it really doesn't matter. What it comes down to is do you believe a nation ought to have a border? Yes or no? Because if you do, okay, even if someone got shot wrongly that's a horrible occurrence, does not change that fundamental belief, yes or no. And so at a certain point, really it's it's who believes it more and who has more

political will. And to your point about Trump, that's been the thing that's been very disconcerting. And I don't look to the GOP as you know, any sort of savior, but to see them lose their will so easily versus these people, who, even if they're not religious, have this sort of cultish devotion to their politics. To be honest, it is, you know, very much a contest of will, if you see what I'm getting at.

Riot Matter riots. There's been nothing like the level of trouble you could get what Antifa are actually organized to do. There hasn't been that much pushback, and already they backed off and run away. Yeah, it's quite a stunning thing,

it really is. So well. The saying I've adhered to for many, many years came from King Charles the First shortly before he well, sorry, the other Strafford, who was the great advisor of King Charles the First, who even before the English Civil War started, Charles threw his great advisor to the wolves to save his own skin, and the other Strafford, before he had his head cut off by the Parliament's side, said put not your trust in princes.

And I think that that's an extraordinarily valuable piece of advice for people. So if you're not going to put your trust in princes, in which our class also the trumps of this world, you must put your trust somewhere. So to put it in yourself is a monstrous he go again there's only God and the traditional faith and generally in your people. And if you have faith in God, and whether it's with faith in God or not faith in your people, then you have to think, well, therefore

the people must continue. So it comes back to having children. And as you said, it can't be a rational an accounting thing of adding up certain percentages or whatever. It's

just the thing which you should do. It's also someone older, I can tell you having four children was a tremendous challenge at times and quite hard, but a wonderful thing, a joyous thing, and a thing it Actually you can be as material as you think you are until you have children, and then when you have children, you suddenly then find that actually you were very immateure and now you're at least on the road to being mature. But I can tell you, as also the grandfather of grandchildren,

that they're even more fun. And the biggest reason to have children and to push to have grandchildren isn't because in the end, because it's it's because what God God demands, or because what's good for your people. It's just because it's fun. It's what we're designing to do. So if I know so many youngsters, young relatively young men approached me through substack and and say, you know, I'm thinking

about this, but yeah, can I do it? And if I get married to this girl, what happens in ten years time, if we get divorced or something like that, forget it all. Just have children because it's the most joyous and wonderful thing you can possibly do with your life. And if the very worst comes to the worst and you end up divorced and your wife takes half your money or more because of the way it's all stewed against men, most of it it's going to go to

your kids in one way or another. And when you die or shortly before you die, doesn't matter how much material wealth you've got left, or how much has been taken off you, fairly or unfairly. All accounts at that point is the bit of work that you're able to do while you're alive. If you're a very lucky and unusual man, perhaps things you said or written which actually

go on to affect future generations. But for ninety nine percent of us, the only thing which survives your life going out is the children and grandchildren great grandchildren that are left behind you. So stop worrying about it, just get on and do it. Well.

ride the wave of this great prosperity. But still, I mean my grandfather, who I have a great relationship with, he was unexpectedly and quickly married to my grandmother. I'll leave it at that. And then when on a double circumnavigation of the globe, didn't want his son until he was a year and a half old. And they're still married.

They have, you know, a great many grandchildren. And you look at that and you're like, okay, well, any situation I could find myself in is probably not that difficult. They were fine. I'm not going to say that any individual moment was easy or pleasant or ideal if you were designing it, you know, in a lab right, your perfect life. But at a certain point, all right, if you're lucky you make it to eighty mid seventies, right, if you have my genetics, maybe not even that far right.

And so at a certain point I understand the desire to be prudent, right, to make the correct decision, But are you going to wait ten, fifteen to twenty years to do that. There's a limited amount of time, and you know, especially when and this is something I think it's true of both of our countries. The prognosis for the near to you know, middle term future doesn't look great.

down with a stripper or anything. It's not my point at all, but to say, look, if you're waiting for this kind of perfect hand of cards to be dealt, you'll be waiting forever. And the other thing that I think is, and sorry I'm just monologuing at you, Nick, but we got going, is I think that there there is a lot of analysis that's correct about the you know, the corrosive nature of these left wing radicals right there,

their urge to subvert, to attack everything. And you know, people will say, oh, you know, older generations don't realize it, and that may or may not be true. But if you were not fighting that right, if you're just waiting for that perfect day, you're waiting for that perfect institution,

well you're just seating ground. So at a certain point, and my friend Ernst Fanziel conscious caricles South African guy involved with the you know, solidarity movement down there, has this great essay called dig a Trench making exactly this point where it's like, look, you know there is a tactical decision to retreat, whether physically in an institution, in a job. But you don't do that to keep running away forever. You go back to build a trench, to

build something, yeah, defendable. And I think that that is, you know, very much the attitude to have and it's why I enjoy looking to the South Africans who have even in our you know, relatively degraded situation, have it much worse than either of us. And they still managed to produce some sort of culture, a big ring, yeah.

percent or forty percent or even twenty five percent. You're not going to be half a percent, you know, so and half a percent in a society with everyone around you, and that yes, I know there's tribal differences, but everyone around you for a white so that basically, apart from in the middle of the cities, everyone around you comes from one other ethnic block, which is potentially very hostility

for various reasons. Even when we're quite a small minority in the western countries, that's not going to be the case. We're going to be surrounded by all sorts, not by one block, but by half a dozen different blocks. Most of them just test to test each other and fear each other more than us. As a matter of fact, so as long as we're a cohesive block within that block. It's far from ideal. But we're not as bad as the South Africans as badly offers them.

election we may take power in South Africa. It's so patently absurd they can't get down that, you know, down the electoral route. The other thing before we move on to come back to what you were saying, talking about how the boomer generation you had us, or had your parents or whatever, there's a strong, rather unfortunate tendency among young patricks to look back. You know. It's this sort

of this age war thing. Are the boomers you know you you know, boomer, you know, you're responsible for all this and they think they're saying, well, it was easy for the boomers to have children, because, like you said, you know, there was this there was this enormous economic

prosperity thing going on. That's with hindsight. If you look at the decision of a family of Americans, perhaps a husband had just come back from war in the late nineteen forties, they've been through a depression, a catastrophic depression, and the war. What on earth was there in their life experience. We said, you know what, we're going to have kids because we're about to enter the most materially wonderful time that anyone on the planets have a They

didn't know that. People in the nineteen sixties having children. Likewise, things have been going well for eight or nine years, or they've gone well for eight or nine years before in the past, includingly just after the First World War, there was an economic boom for a few years. So when you look back and think what it was easy for the boom was they could have kids because you know, it was this wonderful time of prosperity. They didn't know it.

They had children just because it was the natural thing to do, and because in many cases, particularly in America, to one extending other, as Christians, they believe the Lord will provide or just well, I want to do it

because it's the natural, normal thing to do. And I think that we're talked earlier on about the way in which the progressives have poisoning everything, absolutely right, and one of the worst examples, most powerful examples of how they've poisonous poison things, is how they've managed to undermine young people's just natural instinct just to go and have kids, you know, it's and to feel that perhaps we shouldn't bring kids into this world because it's such a mess.

That's the very reason if you think you're going to go potentially into a civil war, that's the very very reason why you should have lots of kids, because they can help win the civil war, or for that matter, if you really think it's going to come to that, you have to face reality. If that's what you think is coming, then one of your sons is going to die in that civil war. Problem For the liberals, at most,

they've only got one son. That's their line wiped out, even if he's a son by the time if he's still a son. Indeed, if you've got five or six, then well, in pure harsh DNA genetic terms, that's the genetic terms. That's the reason you got five or six children, because several of them aren't going to make it to adulthood, so you have to have the larger number. So for every reason, stop worrying about it, stop thinking about it, just get on and do it.

accept that. You know, if you and I got exactly what we wanted, you know, massive remigration restrictions on any number of different things, it's entirely possible that we would lose a lot of the benefits of globalization. Right like this podcast, Mike that I'm speaking to you through. I bought off the Internet. It was manufactured by Chinese child slaves for next to nothing. And if I were to get everything I want, I might well be poor. I would not be able to make as many consumer choices.

I would have less disposable income. And so you could look at that and say, oh, well, my life would be worse, and it's like, well, no, there is something that matters more than simply that material condition. And so even if we steal man that position and we say, yes, the Baby Boomers were relatively the wealthiest generation in history, well, two things. One that let us hear right, even if we could simply turn the clock back, you know, there

is such a thing as Dutch disease. But also look like we have to accept that there may well be a trade off, and that trade off may be you know, relatively speaking, less wealth. But in my mind, what matters more is being connected to a culture, having a people, having something alive that you are a part of, instead of simply you know, maximizing how many consumer choices you can make, you know, being able to you know, participate

in the great global strip mall. And I think that it's it's always tragic when I see people who are accurately critiquing the system but ultimately share the exact same, just core premise. They are simply aggrieved that they are not on the receiving side, that they are not getting the gibs. And I again, I have a great many friends who are white nationalists. I'm not talking about them, but you see that in this circle as well. Or

it's basically they want gibbs for white people. You know, they want to be you know, receiving all of those things and look like you know, obviously I'm not some you know, free market lunatic libertariat. But if you've ever been around recipients of welfare, I'll leave it at that. In America, that's not a good life. Sure, it is not the same problems you're receiving now, you know, with the racial discrimination, but that clearly breeds its own problems.

And I care enough for my people, I care enough for my culture that I don't want to see. You know, this is kind of like a Jesse Jackson for white people, right that reduced to simply another one of these kind of pathetic grievance groups. Unconnected, but it is something that I do worry about a lot when I look at, as you said, the kind of younger patriots. One more thing I'm actually curious to get your thought on. You

mentioned islamification right in your country. We're a little bit behind the curve there, but boy, are we catching up. And one of the things that and I realized it is difficult to talk about, not you know, for our sakes, but for the sake of YouTube that you see in this discussion is the interaction between opposition to Islam and support for a certain Middle Eastern democracy. So obviously I feel like I can I can guess your opinions on both of those those topics. But how do you go

about threading that needle? Because it seems very easy to fall into the counter g hod playbook. I mean, I don't know if you know him, but like I look at figures like you know Tommy Robinson and others and not looking to I don't know the guy. I'm not trying to trash talk him, but you see where he gets his money, right, So how do you go about threading that needle? In England?

about it. And it's one of those things that it's even more relevant now than it was then when you've got It's not just Tommy by any means. It's a huge range of opinion formers in alternative media, ranging from total crackpots posting anonymously on social media and so on, right through to some of the major television corporations who

are pushing this clashes of civilizations. The Muslims are going to come and they're going to take over your society, Your grandchildren, granddaughters will be wearing burkers, et cetera, et cetera. And yes, there is obviously a problem with Islamification, and there are whole areas of British cities which now look more like Karachi than they do traditional Britain. Yes, that's a problem. But in the end, I say how do you thread it? Will you say, well, where did this

problem come from? Because to go around trying to deal with the problem without understanding its origin is a very foolish position. Whatever the problem may be, If it's a slight electric shock you're getting in your bathroom and you only worry about the shock that the TAP's giving you, a bit of a shock, rather than thinking where's that electricity coming from and what's wrong. You're never going to

solve the problem. Sooner related you're going to you know, too much electricity is going to come through, you're going to fry. So you've got to look at the problem. And of course when you look at the problem, you find that is the Islamification of Europe is part of the browning of Europe. And this is not some just natural quirk or catastrophe. It's been planned and imposed upon us by the very people who are now saying you've

got to go and fight those wicked Muslims. So it is very, very difficult to deal with because our people have a genuine problem with is Iramification and with large numbers of Pakistanis and so on. But again you're not going to deal well. You can try and deal with that problem with fighting them and the people who are

pushing us towards civil war. If they were pushing us towards a civil war on the basis that look, we're going to have it at some point, it's better to have it now, or there's still relatively more of us than them, and if they were saying, which people could

from the safety of America. If you're going to have a civil war, you need in order to win it, you need to begin now doing ab C and D. They we're doing that have some sympathy for it, but they are absolutely clearly trying to push and pushure us into a civil war, certainly in Western Europe and Britain, not on the basis that if we win it, we can get country back, because these very sane people are all saying that immigration from Africa and India, as long

as they're not Muslims, that's absolutely fine. And the thing the problem with the Muslims is they won't integrate. If they'll only integrate with us, so their children will marry our children, wouldn't it be wonderful. But they're standing in their own communities insisting on their Sharia law. Well, I say thank God for that, because if they were simply part of our melting pot, our melting pot would be even more corrosive and efficient in terms of getting rid

of us. So these people do not have the interests of our people at stake. So I'm damned if I'm cold to fight their war any more than I want to fight the other side of the global elites. War new against Russia and Ukraine. Absolutely not none. None of their wars have been any damn use. They've all We've been lied into all of them. And all our people get out of wars is suffering death and higher tax bills. And it's the same with the whole lots of them. So you have to try and alert people to do it.

In the end, I think we're reaching the points in Britain where huge numbers of people are not just hardcore nationalists, but even broader than that. The people actually comment in the newspaper and the comments sections of mainstream newspapers, so many people have got a pretty good grasp of what is going on that we're getting to the stage where we need to stop. And it's always tainting because it's such outrage and you feel it's you've got to try

and wake every last person up. But we probably need to stop talking so much about the problems. If people don't understand the problems by now, they're probably either so stupid or so cowardly are or so scared that they're not going to understand them, or they're going to keep on pretending they don't understand them. We need to talk about practical solutions, which are people, whether it's individual activists, families or communities, can do in their own lives to

to advance our cause. So especially as certainly in Britain anywhere where you've got the extreme repression now of freedom of speech. But even in the States, so you still got the Second Amendment if you get a Democrat government in two years time. How long that will last is

another matter. But even regardless of that, when you say you have to be careful about what you're speaking about because of YouTube and so on, and similar in you even more so Facebook, et cetera, et cetera, you're already under a degree in the United States of repression of your freedom of speech. So it becomes more and more the more you talk about the problems, the more you're likely to face the shadow bands and so on, and

the restrictions, which means you reach few people. So that's where as I say, I think we get into the stage when all of us really need to make a conscious, disciplined effort to talk less about the problems and more about the practical answers in our own lives.

to one of my friends. I was too young. I was, you know, a child during most of the Global War on Terror, but I knew a great many people who were involved, particularly who now are in kind of their mid to early forties. And I remember talking to one of them and he said, you know, I saw a lot of horrible things. I you know, went through a lot, and I never had shell shocker PTSD except for once.

And he said that he had come back. He was in California, and he went to Walmart and he rounded the corner and there were three women in burkas yea, And of course it was you know, sort of a nervous system level response. But he described that as a very disheartening revelation, like wait a minute, you know he had bought the line hook you know, hook line and sinker and you can't blame him, right. The guy was seventeen doing what he thought was right, and you know,

those individual actions he did were heroic. But at the same time, these guys got played. We all got played. And now you know that line of we fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here. You're like, well, you brought everyone back. You know, everyone every time. You know, there was one in northern Virginia not too long ago, or an Afghan guy you know, shot up a number of police officers. There was another one out of somewhere in the Midwest. I think it

was Detroit. I can't remember. I could name almost any city and it would be true even if it's not the exact one I'm thinking of. And it is very much like, wait a minute, I thought this was the whole point. And of course, you know, people have been drawing attention to that for a long time. But you know, the idea that, oh now it's time to you know, get on side for the next conflict. You're like, wait a minute, I don't necessarily like the Islamification of my nation,

but fool me once, fool me twice. And about talking about about solutions, I think there's something to that. And you know, I'm part of a you know, a fraternal group in the US, the Old Glory Club, and it's been crazy. I was, you know, one of the founding members and to watch it grow in you know, a few years, from fifteen guys in a conference room to

now I went to my local chapter. There's you know, dozens up at this point in my small town and there are sixty guys from around my community hanging out together. And it's it's incredibly positive because you know, I'll and I'll probably listen to this and send me a message. But I met a guy there who's, you know, cabinet maker, so he's making cabinets for me, and it's like, okay, well there's no political advantage to that. But all of

a sudden, it's like, well, I've got a network. I've got dozens of guys that I can you know, reach out to. Sure in the immediate next two weeks term. Does that get us some political victory. No, But at the same time, it's a way better solution than sitting at home getting upset about what you see on the screen.

You have guys that you can you can talk to, you can build something with and also you now have a you know, a huge network of support, and to me, that sort of and you know that the pagan types referred as to you know, building your tribe. You know, there are other terms for it as well. But to me, that is both the easiest thing to do and the best preparation for whatever may kind of come down the pike.

just because it's a clever idea. It is because it's a fact that a large part of the point of giving people the idea that they can vote blue or red is in order to distract them from the realities of power and so on, to give them an artificial belief that what they do really changes things, and that to put their faith in the people up there on

the pedestal. And if the appalling revelations in the Epstein the latest way of Epstein things show people anything it should be to understand that this is not a specific problem of one pedophile or one little group and one group of the political elites are within it. They're all of them wrapped up in this thing. That's the nature

of the beast. We are ruled by a self selected, self perpetuating elite which at some stage in the past, whether it's in ancient Babylon or in the last forty years or somewhere between it, at some stage in the past it's become artly corrupt, artly evil. And the idea that you're going to change anything connected with that crowd, that crowd with what you do in your own life,

it's nonsensical. Whereas as you were saying there, when you've got sixty men in your community, there's so much can be done with that, I detinue it's already making people's lives better, because you know, if you look at one of the key statistics which decides quite apart from you was talking earlier on about your genetics and so on, a key metric as to whether or not you're going to live to a ripe old age or not is whether you've got friends at a circle of friends, you know,

that's it. So if making everyone's life better and for that case matter in a small town, it doesn't actually matter what sort of challenge befalls your small town community in the future. If they're sixty like minded men in a core, then you've got a good chance of your

community rising to meet that challenge. And if those sixty good men are actually half of them in the Democrats, as they say would have been back in the nineteen fifties, half of them staunch Democrats, half of them stage Republicans, straight away your community has got this division right down the middle of it, which people who really wish you ill will play upon. And while you're busy hating each other or worrying about each other, all sorts of bad

things happen to you. So for our people to withdraw from the game of party politics actually doesn't mean that we're drawn from politics. Because politics, if you look at the actual meaning of it, the Greek word, it's about the police, it's about the city, it's about the community.

And the last thing people who really want to do politics, real politics worthwhile politics should be doing is getting involved in the party politics, which is a fake version, deliberate design to make people waste their time.

life of anyone productive. But point is, and she made a you know, a quite quite incisive point where she's like, I don't understand why everyone's always talking about national politics, and this is what actually matters, right, saying like that the kind of you know, huge you know, dog and pony show things are said, but your life doesn't change, whereas you know, a much less exciting election all of a sudden, you know, I my life has significantly changed

for the worse, and that matters even more so down to the you know, and where I live, right the county and state and city government level, because of course, right, which goons actually get sent to deal with you, like, okay, if you if you really mess up, it is the FBI you get you get a black helicopter, in which case you're probably screwed anyway, right, But in most cases it's you know, your local sheriff, your local police department. And it's become sort of a truism, but it is

there's something to it. And you know, I think about this, you know, during the pandemic where you know, sure there were national or state level laws, but living in a bubble, it didn't matter because the local police wasn't going to do anything. So sure it's illegal, but functionally, you know, you could still do whatever you want it. And I think that you know, the the entertainment level, the number of eyes on, you know, the big picture stuff. You know,

what did Donald Trump say? You know, who performed at the super Bowl? How gay was he? Answers? Very But all of that, you know, takes up so much time that I think it blinds people to what actually, you know, matters. And look, I understand it, right, I'm certainly guilty of talking about Trump or whatever, perhaps more than I should

but especially from a relative position of weakness. And I mean that very specifically, not that we are weak people, but very clearly the government doesn't listen to what you and I want to do. You sort of have to, you know, choose a you know, choose a playing field where you actually can matter. We actually can't do something.

the national level you can't. So we've got a problem with powerlessness, and we can address it as long as we have realistic games and working in a field where we can actually make a difference.

institutions primarily staffed by older people. And I haven't told him this you probably very embarrassed by did but actually sort of took inspiration from him and realize that if you are a young man who has even a monoicum of competence and drive, you can advance incredibly quickly through an institution that is staffed by people in their seventies, and they will love you for it, because, as you've said, you know both going back to you know the importance

of having friends. But the Internet has massively isolated people and so many of these institutions, you know, Putnam's Bowling alone chronicled this generation and a half ago are dying on the vine because there is no youth presence. And it's sort of stupid to say, but you can just do things and you will be surrounded by how quickly you can advance because there is no one else to compete against.

country and there. Obviously, I asked, do you have it in the States? You do, because I think anyone will find if you go near any of those the game. As you're saying, they're committee members, they're all in the seventies.

It's a demographic problem. So obviously, if a group were to go in and say, right, we're going to take it over, and in due course we'll get rid of the American flag or the British flag and will have a far better flag in its place, obviously that's going to be a note y you know where that is

going to end. But if people approach it genuinely and not in a cynical way and get involved in that, then, especially if one person can do it, then a little bit further down the line, they can assist a friend here to come in and so on and in due course,

just automatically you take it over. You say, if you're taking it over for bad ends, whether actually that, they're already quite well set up to defend against that, because for decades, any little bunch of conven criminal, if they could get into a group like that, take it over and then sell it off and pocket the proceeds. That's

what human beings do. Unfortunately, some people are plain bad it would have happened, so they defended against takeovers, but they're certainly not defended against younger people coming forward, getting involved and becoming the people who run it in the future.

And if you control something like that, then again, if you have some kind of catastrophe, then rather than your people in that community sitting around of running around the headless chickens, which is what people tend to do in a catastrophe, and I think they're going to see it more, especially with people a generation bought up on the Internet without therefore any real normal social skills. Not their own fault,

it's just the way it is. Then increasingly, something bad happens in your community, whether it's something bad because of them, if you're thinking in ethnic terms or for any other reason, then your community's had a disadvantage because there's no hardcore

at the center of it. Whereas if in addition to your sixty people, you also have the absolute use of a club building and everything that goes with it, well around that you can instantly build a relief center for whatever's happened, and can instantly then say to people, come and meet us here, you know, and we've got supplies here, and we've got a kitchen here where we can cook

for two hundred people, whatever it is. Having an asset like that is so important that it gives you the power to respond to all sorts of things, whatever it might be in the future, rather than spending all your time, like we was saying, worrying about Biden, Trump, whoever was going to succeed them and so on, which is in the end, you're worrying about something you make no difference to and even if you did, it wouldn't make any difference to your people on the ground.

same direction. And one of the things I've noticed speaking to older people leave it at that, is that many of them, particularly if they are we'll just say conservative aligned, are incredibly beat down because their entire life they have been told this thing that you love is evil and horrible and bad, and ever going back is impossible, and everyone younger than you hates you and resents you unless you say this, this and this, and you don't need

to be weird about it. But I've seen this happen multiple times, where it's like a weight dropping off their back. It's like, oh, you're like me, and internally you're like, well, I'm I'm a little more than that, but you know,

we'll go ahead for the sake of the conversation. And so particularly a historical societies, you know, people who are passionate about their culture, passionate about the place they live, they often have to walk on eggshells, you know, asked as if you know, like, oh, we can't ever say that, and if there is an injection of youthful vigor of people who share that common understanding and can basically say like, no, you don't need to apologize to me. Yes, I see

what you want and it is good. Again. You can you can do quite well. But Nick, we are coming up on time. Last time, unfortunately the software kicked us out before we could get to where people can find you. So, Nick, where are you on the internet?

serious work now on substack. So I'm substack. I'm on substack. It's Nick Griffin Beyond the Pale, and that's where I'm putting the in particular series I'm writing at presents with the working title what is to be Done, which is just about where do we go from here? Because I see most nationalists, people who claim to be nationalist thinkers, without a brain in their heads. I'm afraid coming up with all sorts of crazed ideas. I think I've got the experience to have some far better ideas as to

where we should be going. I suffer a degree of guilt because perhaps certainly in Britain there's the nationalist organization group Blitz around are almost all on crazed paths, very dangerous paths. For a degree of guilt because perhaps they're there because for ten years at the end of the BNP, I just left them to it, hoping that the young generation would come up with some great ideas. Well, they haven't done. So therefore I've got a duty. I'm afraid

I've got to come back. So I say to people, if you think what I did in the past was useful and good and so on, I actually believe that my most important work is still to come, not least as I've got the experience. I think I said last time. It's not just my experience, it's the fact that I've got fifty plus years of experience in this game. Sometimes it is a game, sometimes it's great fun. But in turn, in that time, I've met people who were there ten

years before. I've met men who were at Cable Street with Mosley and so on and spoken with them. I've met men who served in the armed forces of every major combatant in the Second World War, and quite a few from the First World War and so on. So there's an awful lot of experience there, other people's experience which I'm working to distill to give to the next generation. So the place I do it is on substack. Nick Griffin Beyond the Pale, and please have you not already

on there, Come and join. It's a great app. It's free and it's very easy to use.

series has been great. You know, I was sort of reading through it in preparation for our first interview, so highly recommend that all will be linked in the description. As far as my stuff, the Jay Burton Show, Apple, Spotify, YouTube, anywhere you listen to podcasts. If you want to support me, this is what I do professionally, you could throw a few bucks my way on Patreon, Substack or gum road. The business model is basically, if you pay me, you gheit the episodes a few days early with no ads

to the same content. I'm not hiding anything from you, but it's a way to, you know, help me support myself. I actually it's funny. I always say that it comes out to like twenty cents an hour, but when I was at this event, some guy came up to me and he said, no, I actually did it. It's eighteen cents. So if you think that what I do is worth you know, eighteen sense for what you listen to, you know, maybe you can also check out our sponsor, Axious Remote

Fitness Coaching. JD is very very adept at building a community, both just with the fitness guys and also in his personal life. You should support him. It's one of our guys has a business. Again, Nick This was a ton of fun man, I appreciate it.