Meaning a light Man like this man letting butterfly flapping his wing.
They've bound in a force.
Man, it gonna cause a tree fall, letting five thousand miles away.
Man, nobody see Nobody else might see that. You don't need know it. Man, we don't.
They'd like you followed another story and you got back to like that.
That's the man got back to na on the Panama Man.
Now you don't bag no matter, man, okay.
In one of my recent episodes, we talked about the system of social control the wizardgree that they use to control public opinion. But something that we didn't get into that really stuck in my mind is well, what do you do when there's not one unified public to control? When there's no real cultural consensus. Society has been so fracture due to changing demographics the Internet age, that becomes very difficult to have a unified narrative on anything. We
see this quite often in criminal cases. The murder of Austin Metcalf by Carmelo Anthony is a classic example that concept of self defense a trial by your peers. It's cultural, it is contextual, and it falls apart when people don't have the same cultural ties, and this is something I've noticed for a while in my mind. The last real top down narrative push was the pandemic. It was quite
clear what the official narrative was. And ever since then, any one of the big pushes, the times where they really tried to all get us to think the same thing, well it's fizzled. And maybe part of that is the pandemic that many people, whether they have a particularly sophisticated system or not realized all at once that well, whatever they're telling me, it's probably not true. But I think there's another element, which is simply we are too disunited
of a country. There is not one pop culture. There are millions of different subcultures. Some of them are simply aesthetic y two k fashion goths, the sort of stuff that would kind of make sense in a John Hughes movie, just amplified by social media. But also, well, if people don't even speak the same language, don't have the same holidays, don't have the same culture, how could we expect them
to have the same opinion on anything. This is one of the suicidal parts of multiculturalism, and the deep irony is that it is boast the weapons that our elites are using against us, and also something which seems to be dooming their project to failure. Tower of Babel Babel, depending on how you say it, is sort of an
interesting example of this. This isn't Bible thumping. You can treat it as a mythic story and see exactly the point I'm about to make, this grand world spanning project, the tower that will reach to Heaven ultimately, Falters men are divided given their different tongues, the idea that they're going to create this one world system or that they
are going to create this totalizing system of control. Well, human nature rebels against that, Entropy rebels against that, and both of those are things we can't manage our way out of, despite our best attempts to do so. And look, that doesn't mean things will be particularly pleasant or fun. Entropy is a very real thing, but I don't think they can pull it off. Seemingly, they've already lost the level of narrative control they had ten let alone twenty
years ago. For all of the reason that I laid out today's episode is with a stalwart Tim Kelly of our interesting times, a man you've no doubt heard before, been around for a long time, ten years plus or minus. In fact, I've been an interview on a show and I had one of his co hosts, Joe Atwell, on not too long ago. I remember where I was the first time I heard his podcast with Pete Conyonez, probably five or six years ago now. But he does good work.
He's interesting thinker, and I think that this is a productive conversation poking around that what are they going to do as culture crumbles, because it is both a weapon, as I've said, but also they move through those waters. They need social cohesion so that when they push culture one way, it all goes. It's sort of like you're trying to push a bag of sand across the floor, versus you've turned that bag over, there's nothing contain it, constraining it. Try to move the same number of grains
of sand. It's a much messier, much more difficult process, especially in time in which they are getting less competent. They are doing worse this sort of push pull that has kept competent people out of government as ham stringing them. It's an interesting thing that multiple trend lines moving at once. And let's be honest, this is also a funny episode it's not really mostly about jokes, but Tim, he's he's a good time a clever guysout further Ado. Let's get
into the episode as per usual. If you want the episodes early in ad free throw me a few bucks Patreon, Substack or gum Road. Check out our sponsor, Axios Remote Fitness and Coaching, an app I use almost daily. Great guy there, JD who runs it. You should give him your money and uh hey you'll get fit, which is probably something you guys need. Anyway, here's Tim. All right, Tim Kelly, welcome to the Jay Burdon Show How You Do It?
Man? Well, thanks for having me on.
Yeah, I'm glad to have you on. I was on your program. I mean I was gonna say not too long ago, but time flies on the internet. It's been longer than I thought. And obviously I had your co host on not too long ago. So I'm really glad to have you on.
Man.
It's funny. I was talking about this, you know, because I got a little Maudlin hit, you know, the five hundredth episode, and I was thinking, like, you know what got me here?
And a cheeze.
It would have been four years ago, but you had done an episode with Pete during the whole you know, pandemic situation. And it's been years. I don't even know what episode it is, but I remember exactly where I was listening to that right before I started. And so I've been listening to your work for a long time and I'm real glad to have you on.
Oh, thank you the uh I guess uh entertaining you for well.
Yeah, it's an interesting thing that you know, people always have, you know, where were you when JFK was shot and all that? And you know, the version for our guys is, well, where were you when X y Z racist podcasts happened?
You know?
And I was at an absolutely horrible industrial park and the bad side of Richmond. Wouldn't recommend it, But we're not here merely to reminisce. Before we got started, you and I were talking covered a number of subjects, but you mentioned this phrase that I'd never heard before that I really liked, the hollow state, which I think comprises a couple of different ideas that a lot of people have felt are kind of thrown around. And so I'm curious, Tim, what does this term meant?
Well, I didn't coin it. I happened to come across it and just serendipitously you asked the question. I said, well, you know what you know about the idea of the lack of narrative and some of the big events, the inability forgover to explain itself and just to not incline to provide narratives what they're do anymore. It's just that they're all over the place, and I surmise that might be one of the things why we have this is a hollow state. They don't preside over a cohesive people anymore.
It's been atomized. The nation state has been shattered or sort of been transcended by globalism and those who enforce it, those those groups that enforce it or have created it.
And so there are politicians who don't really represent us, are inclined to even have to justify their actions anymore, and they don't have They don't have a they don't have a cohesive people who are have enough time to pay attention or inclined to pay attention, or to have a clear thought or to have They don't think that the public has an intention span that requires narratives at least to have some pretext or some basis in truth or reality in the past, I mean, the things that
governments do, particularly wars and some of the particularly the crises that we've been confronted with in the twentieth century, they're never really the what they what they're marketed as. And the governments are never doing things for the reasons that they that they retailed to the public. You know, pick any war out in the past, you know, since I don't know, since nineteen hundred or eighteen ninety eight,
it's never really for what it's for. I mean, we didn't go to war with Spain over the main that was the pretext.
Of course. We didn't enter World War One to make.
The world safe for democracy, order to check Teutonic tyranny or whatever. We didn't enter World War two to stop Hitler, or in a sense we did, but we Hitler had to be stopped for reasons that weren't there, weren't retail to the public. We didn't get into Career or Vietnam for the reasons that they said we did.
Right.
In fact, you know, there was a Gulf of Tonkin instant that never occurred. Of course, in the nineteen sixties, I've quipped that in the nineteen sixties, there was a naval incident, an incident, see that didn't happen which led to a full scale war.
Then there was an attack against US ships, it didn't lead to a war or something referring to the US as liberty incident.
So and of course we can talk about, you know, the the Gulf War nineteen ninety or even that two thousand and three Iraq war, and of course this current excursion, one hundred day excursion against Iraq, I mean Iran, rather not for what it remember, it's not it wasn't started.
For what for the reasons that the well, actually they did kind of admit it originally, didn't.
They say that they we attacked because Israel was going to attack, so we had to attack preemptively or something. And then these other narrators started popping up. So that's that's kind of what. So there's no reasonability to have to present a coherent narrative to these things because the nations, particularly America, is so shattered that it's just possis don't feel the need to it anymore, you know.
Well, definitely, and I realized this is going to date this horribly when inevitably we're plunged into nuclear fire, you know, fifteen minutes after this episode is public. But I just got a text message and then confirmed. It seems as if both Trump and the Iranian president have signed whatever
peace deal will conclude this not real war. I think that what's interesting is like you look at Vietnam, right, and there is there's an official narrative, right, there's an explanation, and there's a delta between that and what actually happened, right, And then maybe this is just a recency bias, you know,
what I've lived through. But when I look at things like you know, the Vegas shooting or you know, the attempted assassination of Trump in Butler, PA, it seems as if the official narrative is basically just to forget about it. There's no real explanation. I mean, I think the nominal explanation for you know, Vegas is, of course, you know, Paddick and Curb gambling debts and so decided to shoot
people who weren't in the casino, you know. Or in Butler, it seems to just be he was angry, which you know, I assume that's at least part of it. You know, that seems to stand to reason, but it doesn't quite explain the whole situation and the point about you know, the actual like people who make up a nation fracturing.
I mean, this is something I noticed. I've told this story before, but you know, a few months back, I was having a conversation with my wife and my grandmother and she asked me, you know, well, what kind of music to people your age listen to? Which you know, on its face a perfectly sensible question, but it's actually one that's quite difficult to answer because of music streaming
apps and algorithms. Because you know, tim, you may have a song that for you is the you know, the summer of nineteen ninety six, you know the song that you hear and it takes you right back. You know, it was everywhere, And yeah, sure I do too, for you know, when I was in college or whatever. But that song wasn't on the radio, it wasn't centralized. It was whatever the algorithm decided to feed me and the ten kids next to me walking through the halls or
listening to something completely and totally different. And that's that's a very innocuous version. You know, all of those ten kids may well have you know, had very similar cultural and genetic groups that I did. And that's simply the kind of disintegration of culture, let alone, right, the fallout of multiculturalism, which is, well, they have no culture in
common whatsoever. You know, it seems that this kind of strip culture America, you know, where every one simply comes to make money, Well it's really only that it's this sort of you know, commercial zone, and the only thing people are at least phenominally linked by is like the worship of the US dollar. And that doesn't seem to bind the culture enough to even deserve a narrative, if I'm not stretching too much.
Tim Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because there's no shared culture that no, but that I share cultures, no shared values. And had you had you governors society like that, really well you do it through trauma, fear and constant diversion and just so there's no yeah, So, I mean that's this was something that Walter Littmann wrote a bat in the early part of the twentieth century, even as early as nineteen twenty one, that America was too complex to
govern under Jeffersonian principles. So it was the job of experts like him to provide the pictures, the narratives, the imagery that would controlled people's thoughts, and from that you could sort of confect a public opinion. I mean, public opinion wasn't really genuine. It was always being manipulated and confected to largely to imagery. And this is something that was mass democracy. As they're expanding the franchise and you first to I guess, emancipated slaves, black men, then to women.
And then to you know, eighteen year olds, eventually.
It becomes it becomes sort of negates itself because it has to be manipulated. And the theory behind that is those who are voting are being informed by the media institutions and academia. But then if academian media is sort of in a conspiracy, if you will, if I can use that term to manipulate public opinion, then it is self negating because the people aren't being informed, there being
constantly manipulated. So you know, when you ask me about you know, let's let's repeal the twenty first Amendment or sorry, the nineteenth amendment. Twenty first sackol the nineteenth Amendment because women shouldn't vote, And I was like, well, yeah, it's true, but.
Most people shouldn't vote, so don't get insulted.
And you know, if you're a woman, I say that there's a lot of things, a lot of people just most people just aren't politically competent, you know. And and theoretically those in charge could, I think, edify and inform the public and make them more competent. But if they're competent, how do you screw them over? You can't because they'reiblitically competent. So it's it's it's the ability to lead to kind
of the desire to rule over people. You know, they'd lust for to rule liberta dominandi, and they don't want, uh, you know. And so it's if you know, in America in the twentieth century, you did have this sort of confected monoculture.
There was forged out of two World Wars.
The Great Depression, you had the managerial state, and it was just sort of this American culture. Although you know, if you really put a microscope on America, you see a lot of different regional you see different regional interests and dies. Obviously there's the South, there's Midwest and the West Coast and all that. But you know, through CBS, ABC, NBC,
first through radio, then TV, than Hollywood. They did create an American culture, a monoculture that was shattered kind of like after the Cold War because everything they just didn't they didn't think they needed anymore. They didn't need the you know, the fodder to man the army and to hold back the Communists, if you or that, you know that that to contain communism, if that was ever really you know the objective of the Cold War. But you see what I'm getting at there, I mean kind of
like it's circumstances changed. You know, we've never really have a democracy. These things, these things have always been an illusion, you know. Frank Zappets, that's something to say about that. And of course he was obviously a checkered figure.
Wouldn't rely on him. But Laura Canyon and all that, that's.
Well, you know, sidebar. It's like there there are a number of these, you know, very much of their time, Baby Boomer figures, you know, Zappa, a few others that you just sort of can't help. But like you know that there's no real identifiable ideology there. It comes across as very genuine, But I think a lot about the fact.
They probably say, that's sort of asked, man's sort of a satanic figure.
Yeah, yeah, that's probably a more I.
Can't say curse words of my records. Man, you're a fascist, you know that sort of thing. Yeah, what was tip of Gore is the fastest? That's I don't you're probactaria remember all that. But the tip Gore used to be a conservative. Al Gore was a Southern Democratic conservative back in the eighties.
From Tennessee, and she wanted to put warning.
Labels on records because of the material, you know, so typical or led that charge the late eighties.
Well, the there's one thing I want to I want to bring up, uh when you you speak about that sort of lust for power, right, the sort of flebido domanandi, And I hadn't realize like a large part of that
book is talking about something different sidebar issue. But the the thing that I think about a lot is how clearly a certain segment of our elites are pushing for this kind of global brasilification, you know, the idea that we will simply you know, rule over you know, countless teeming hordes of you know, low IQ.
Morons, which, by the way, as someone who's sort of interested in uh Brazilian film.
He watched that and uh, okay, look I get it. It's a movie. It's it's not one hundred percent accurate. But the Brazilians are making this about themselves. Uh you think O block is bad? You know, like when they get up to it real like say what you will. When don Quavius goes to write, goes to rob the gas station, he's at least civilized enough to use a block with a switch, not to stuff stuff you inside a tire and set you on fire. Yeah, you know, so it's it's it's the it's the little things that
make you know your country feel like home. And at least getting shot is uh, you know, better than it could be. But in all seriousness, obviously, once you see that's sort of hard to ignore it. Everywhere, you know, the the underlying assumption is that you know, I can destroy the country because I will still be in charge no matter what. And one of the things that I've been interested to watch is in these immigrant groups. You see it in the UK, you know, where there's this
new alliance. The Labor Party has lost a lot of the Muslims and now there's this weird, you know, alliance between some independent Muslims and also the Green Party. You know, they're becoming more of a power player instead of purely a client group. They're acting in their own interest on their own But also if you look at you know, elections in you know, deep deep blue areas heavily immigrant,
they're basically like engineering their own race wars. But you know it's instead of you know, the kind of like nineteen nineties vintage stuff, you know, Rodney King and all that, it's you know, the Asians versus the Hispanics. You know, like politics doesn't cease and that idea that you know, we will continue to be the elect no matter what. Rolling down from our ivory castle, it's like, well, guess what, you know, a little bit later, Camp of the Saints
happens to you two. You know, except instead of your beautiful oak door, it could be like your AI data center. You know, it's the same thing, no matter what, you know, it's just this kind of arrogance to assume the entrope wal halt at exactly the moment it would inconvenience me.
Yeah, It's like there's.
Aristocrats who supported the French Revolution because they saw themselves as perhaps getting the throne if the king was taken out, and revolutions devour their children, as they say, right, so.
Yeah, I mean it is sort of this continual kind of human behavior, like the wisdom of Ecclesiastes, right, there's nothing new under the sun, Like yeah, okay, sure, you know, obviously there's the technical aspect to it, but that's what sort of adds to the to the.
Horror of this.
Like if you are a student of history at all, you're like, oh, wait, you know, I've seen this before, and it was way more comfortable to watch it to happen to someone else, you know, with two thousand years of distance.
I want to I want to read about it. I don't want to live it.
Right, yeah, yeah, exactly. Reading about barbarians is much more fun than be beheaded by them.
Yeah, and he kind of let me look good. Examples.
Look what happened out in Los Angeles the election out there for mayor, and I do there's no way special Practice could win.
They're not gonna let him win, you know.
But there's no because there's no real at least there's not a solid majority constituency for a reasonable politician right out there, he's making all the sense and like they're not going to allow that. You know, he'll peel it a lot to a lot of people, because you know, there's always a lot of people who haven't gone crazy yet.
Same thing, you know in New York.
That yeah, in the nineties there was actually a constituency for for Juliani. There isn't anymore, at least not a majority for it, because they've been able to uh, well pretty much water the stock, if you will, dilute it with you know, mass immigration, you know, and this is what you got that they you know, and the system isn't going to work. Seemly, the jury system doesn't work. You know, why was Kamala Why was Carmello Anthony convicted?
They say there was no black on the jury. Well, in a sense, they're kind of right, what does that say though he was guilty as hell? I mean, there's no one there just to uh to stop it to you know, to uh to hang the jury out of a out of a sense of racial solidarity with a murderer. It's because these groups aren't able to utilize, at least
unwilling or unable to maintain or utilize these institutions. That they were bequeathed to them because it's white supremacy, you know, like the jury trial law in order.
You know, uh, we were talking off call.
There was the reaction to Cammella Anthony the burg you know, Shaupie Surprise is guilty, okay, And Matt Walsh was he was watching some of the reactions and he was watching a video of the some of the protesters, the black the blacks protesting outside the courthouse where come ol An I think it was, was convicted. And you know there's one lady doing the outraged black lady saying what am I supposed to do? What do I tell my sons? And Matt Walsh kicks me, goes, I don't know, tell
about the stab people. Just do something else, you know, take up crossroad puzzling. Just don't stab.
People, you know, well, you know, and I guess that's the that's the sort of arrogance of this. And you see this even at the kind of you know, laptop class, you know, middle class types, which is the assumption that you can take you can completely and totally change the culture, and you know, the actual people that live in a country and all of the institutions will keep working, and it turns out, you know, Demestra is just eternally vindicated on this point. The but you know, a constitution, the
laws aren't just magic. They're an expression of a culture, expression of a people. And you mentioned Jerry trial, which is sort of a poignant example, because that's something that has, you know, very very old roots in English common law. It's a system that sort of you know, made sense for those people. And okay, yeah, back then they had a more developed system in certain ways. If you were a noble, you wouldn't just be judged by a random
allotment of other Englishmen, but you know, other nobles. And likewise, if you were a common person, and the idea was, well, you know, you have a lot in common, so you can understand what is reasonable behavior and what is not. And well, very clearly that system breaks down when you have people that have, to put it kindly, Tim, very different understandings of what reasonable behavior is. I can't remember if it was Jasmine Crockett or Joey Reid. I know
it was the two of them talking. And okay, Tim, you might ask, why were you watching this?
Look really different people?
Uh?
Yes, because Jasmine Crockett has fake hair and has no hair. Right to be fair, I do think Joy Reid is like three times her size. Uh point is you know what directionally? You're correct? Functionally, But I'm actually I'm so upset Jazzmine Crockett's out of politics. She was one of my favorites and that we've lost her. Yeah, I mean, I mean you have to take your victories where you can, and she was a great source of entertainment and I'm really devastated that we had.
To funny things. I mean, she actually she's competent enough to be a US senator. Maybe she is now, but well, Kamala Harris.
Was I was about to say, in what direction? Do you mean that? On like a technical level? Because I think you know, you remember how long the technically living corpses of both Dianne Feinstein and Mitch McConnell. We're an afic, So apparently even the criteria of having a pulse, you know, isn't a barrier to entry. So you know what, you say what you will about Jasmine Crockett. She is alive and so I think she hears that parrier no problem.
But she's actually smarter than she lets on. She just does the ghetto racket just for politics.
Yeah, well, there's videos of her earlier in life, and she sounds completely normal, like I think her parents are like upper middle class, private, well educated.
Yeah.
I mean, I'm not going to pretend she's a Rhodes scholar, but she's smarter than she would have you believe. Again, maybe damning by faint praise there, But the point is that these two women are talking and you know, one of them brings up the idea that like, well, you know, clearly this idea of you know, a lethal weapon is a three inch knife a lethal weapon? And I mean, you know, judging by the fact that Austin Metcleft is deceased, I would say yes, just based on the evidence alone.
But the underlying theme there is, well that is like we're witnessing a radically different understanding of how the law works and what is reasonable. You can see this in jury decision, which is that, you know, white Americans tend to treat other groups fairly. They tend to have a pretty narrow band on guilty versus innocent. The same fairness is not returned by particularly black Americans. They view themselves as you know, a minority group and act accordingly, Well,
he's one of ours, so I won't commit again. You mentioned that with the fact that there was even discussion of this in mainstream media, you know, with the jury selection. But you're watching exactly that core problem, which is that institution, jury trial, that social technology. Even a culture that has been here for good or for ill for four hundred years, you know, is about as close to not literally but has been in proximity to quote unquote American culture for
the longest time. It doesn't work at all. And okay, if that didn't work with four hundred years to try and understand one another, well, how does that break down with you know, one Carlo Garcia who got here fifteen minutes ago.
Yeah, and this is the problem to thinking that you know, you have America consists of its magic dirt theory where you come here and you're an American, right, you know
whatever that means. And you know, there's there's the idea that again, that you can flood the country intentionally, mind you with you know, twenty thirty forty million people from countries whose cultures are far different than American and Western culture and have it and then give them a vote, put them access to benefits subsidized housing which the native population has to subsidize, and and then think it's not going to have a qualitative effect on nations politics and
its economy. You know, it's again it's it's obviously it's a hostile uh measure or you know, action on the part, and it's being done and intentionally to bring back the very thing that we're saying, you know, to create uh uh you know, a a hollow state and to create a shattered, adamized people uh uh, diverse uh you know, a series of favalas. If you will, it can be uh,
you can be ruled over. And that's what California has become, meaning that it's so shattered it isn't say there aren't tens of millions of people probably in California who see the problem for what it is, but they don't have any political agency or representation anymore. And that leads leaves the elite in a position where they can continue to plunder the country. A good example the plunder in California
is just it's astronomicals beyond comprehension. The billions that have disappeared, whether it's the you know, the high speed rail, even the billions have gone missing supposedly there. Uh they've spent billions for homeless. You know, that hasn't seen to improve the situation. It's just being stolen.
You know.
Rot insote an article a couple of years ago and he was talking about the h the Jewish mafia in California, how they took over California and it kind of went unreported. I think Gus Russo wrote a book called Super Mob wrote a lot about it about into who's with the Chicago outfit, how a lot of these Jews were out run from Chicago to California, which was ripe to be taken over it, you know, in the middle twentieth century.
And he's talked about how some of the There was a judge Basilon was his name, Bazilon.
I think his Baseilin was his name. He was a Jew that that Truman appointed to the h I think the Court of Appeals to avert a A I. R. S investigation or something.
But he oversaw the the UH sale of UH seized assets from the Japanese UH that were you know, they had the cellar assets and they were putting internman camps during the war, and a lot of his assets were given to to to a lot of uh well connected Jewish families. I think the Hyatt family and also the you know what's the family out of Chicago, you know, the governor of Illinois, Uh Pritzker. We're benefair sharies of that. But he was also he became a judge, became a
very liberal judge. But civil liberties and ron ols theorized that this was wasn't made not have been just about guilt getting at him for his you know, criminal activity is plunder and the way he heeded the Japanese it might have been as a strategy to some of the liberal rulings of the sixties that led to sort of California deteriorating, was to promote things like street crime and disorder, so the public's attention would be would be focused on that and not the high level.
Plunder that was going on. So it's sort of a governing strategy.
Well, I mean then that's clearly one that they love to use, right because as this wonderful benefit of motivating people to support an increase to state power. And look, that may sound like a libertarian talking point, that's not exactly how I mean it at all. But you know, Sam Francis is in ourco tyranny essays just eternally vindicated, right, that crime is really not a problem for them to
a certain point. You know, it is beneficial in multiple ways. One, it opens you know, kind of a number of different avenues for patronage, one, policemen and support staff. Okay, there's a lot of money flowing around there, which you can, you know clearly, as we've seen, use for your own benefit, either directly or indirectly. But also it gives you a sort of endless political machine. You know, the cops beat
a hood rat. Awesome, that's political energy. The you know, the community gets activated, they decide we want major police reform. Oh great, awesome, we can take that that. The people getting robbed, you know, the people getting beaten are for the most part either so deeply in the coalition. It doesn't matter, right, you know again, is oh Block going to go for Trump?
Really?
You know, apparently no matter how violent it gets or their enemies, in which case, great, you saved us the trouble. Again, you saw this all through the you know, the the George Floyd ryots right, the kind of most recent round where again for them, you know, for the machine a small businessman being put out of business is no problem at all. If anything, it's an advantage to them. That's someone who is no longer fully you know, independent, And
I get it. Maybe this sounds too tinfoil hat, but just look at the direction in which things have gone, Like who do they hate, Like who are on their their hit list of of you know, countries and dictators
quote unquote, well naive Bukel, he's right up there. And in the grand scheme of things, like he's been relatively kind, you know, like we haven't seen you know, the streets lined with you know, would hanged corpses, which you know, maybe I would support, but you could at least understand why someone would you know, feel a little gross about that.
But even you know, the relative liberal solution of just imprisoning all the murders and murderers in the country has turned him, you know, in Western media at least, into a pariah.
Yeah, just like the simple crackdown on illegal immigration and all these white liberals come out and start protesting on their behalf the government New Jersey's doing that, protesting an ice facility, And it's the fetish they have towards supporting illegal immigrants, and they're not just their presence but their
access to benefits and these things. It's a weird this assumption that some of the whole world as a constitutional right to enter coming to America and access its benefits, you know, and that's been sort of presumption now because it becomes almost like a it's a virtue signaling.
You know. It's kind of like that you see.
Signs that in our house everyone who's welcome, you know, there's no one's illegal.
And I'm like, what would you lock your doors? It's like, can I walk in and steal your stuff? Right? And I'm not illegal? Right? You know, of course they don't really believe it. It's good example.
I was highlighted that's political stunt that the governor of Texted and the governor of Florida did a few years ago when they they started shipping you know, migrants to uh tony liberal areas, you know, Martha's Vineyard.
Right.
They tolerated them for two days, I think all two days National guards shipped them out, send them off to the mainland summer.
But you know, uh, it's uh yeah, it's.
It is.
It's it's idea you make life miserable and uh, it's in ourco tyranny. And you do that obviously, a like a community of like minded pumbogeneous community with businesses and independent means of support income. That's a constituency or a power block you have to compete with and appeal to. And they're not going to be They're not going to be as manageable as say, you know, just a block, you know, like a you know, an urban mob or ump and proletariat that can be it's easily excitable and
you know, low agency. And that's that's that's what modern urban politics is now. You know, it was always corrupt, but it was already if you go back one hundred years ago or even even sixty years ago to the daily machine in Chicago, it was corrupt, but it worked. You know, there was a level of competency had to be maintained because the expectations of the public were higher.
That's one thing they don't like with heritage Americans or white Americans is white Americans have a higher expectation from their government.
I think it's naive.
You know, obviously there's a lot a lot of naivete there,
but they expect a lot more. And so that's why One of the reasons is why you see this sort of attempt to replace them, because they don't want to deal with a independent, broadly prosperous middle class that has high expectations of their you know, of the political class, because the political class really is what the oligarchs want, is the political class just to serve them, you know, and a broadly prosperous middle class they can have to kind of compete with at the very least to share
the wealth a little bit, distribute the wealth a little more. And they I think they decided they don't want to do that, you know, and that creates political instability, which they think they can I think they can navigate or exploit to their benefit.
You know.
It's very cynical, of course, but well the.
Additionally on that point, the the the essay by Spandrel from fifteen years ago by a Leninism, yeah, describes exactly this point that for the system as it exists, it doesn't actually want particularly competent, capable people. It wants clients, you know, it wants people who owe everything to the system.
And you know, if you were the kind of guy that all right, you know, maybe I'm working in government, but you know, if that position dries up, I can probably make more money in the private sector, you know, or I could start something on my own. We'll never be as loyal as the guy who realizes if this gig goes away, I go back to being a peasant. The reason, of course he uses the term Bioleninism is that Lenin figured this out and he took guys out
of prisons. He took your kind of sexual debiance, people who are very low status and raised them up because they know, like, if this revolution fails, I go right back to the bottom at best. And look, I don't think this is some kind of official top down policy, you know. I don't think this is some kind of you know, like smoky boardroom plan. I think it's just kind of the physics of governments that and Spander will use the example of, you know, the troons and Somalis.
You know, groups that, by objective standards, do not tend to perform well in uh should we say, high pressure, high status settings on average, of course, but they're promoted endlessly. And the question is why, Well, the answer is loyalty, right, They are loyal at least to you know, the hand that feeds them. In a certain perspective, and you know, the big expose of the kind of you know, welfare scheme in you know, obviously you know, California, Wisconsin, a
few other places. The question from a lot of conservatives is, well, why don't they understand they must be getting some kickbacks? And sure they probably are, you know, at least to some percentage, but you don't think the other part of it is that they're stacking the deck. You know, they're putting their loyalists in place. Like you mentioned the you know, the the kind of daily daily system in Chicago, even the you know, the tweet stuff in New York.
Right.
These machines, again, they're kind of what humans default to.
You know.
There's a certain amount of corruption that we just seem to create in any system. But the problem is when that becomes too much for the system to bear. And I think that you just kind of tie this up. Then naivete of our elite is that they can manage that catabolic collapse, that they can halt it when they want. You know, the weapons that they have used, you know,
will will not harm them. And I think that that's the sort of grim irony of the situation we're in and look like you could even look at the situation with you know, Israel in the US, you know, turning the US into this this sort of monster, you know, putting a puppet on the seat of power has in a weird way, screwed them worse than almost anything. You
know that not today, not tomorrow, per se. But if you an item had sat down and designed a program on how to completely and totally alienate the American populace from you know, Israel, could we have done it any better?
Right?
It's sort of some kind of black irony in all of this.
Yeah, they totally the great revelation of the Jewish lobby and its power. Where they always did better when they were working behind the scenes and practicing dynamic silence and openly coming out and calling for censorship, the crackdown the universities. Characters like Bill Ackman, these insufferable billionaires. You know, if you do cast those spot on how they made their money, it's always some vice or some scheme.
They never really add value.
To anything, you know, a casino as a casino added value, right, you know, Or it's some sort of you know, pumping up stock scheme or something that they did, or like Jeffrey Epstein in in the Like when he was in his interview with Steve Bannon says, this is how the Jews make money, this is how the going.
They have to work for it, more or less what he was saying.
So it's so this exposure not just the obvious, uh, you know, the disproportionate and in order to influence that the Jewish lobby has over our government, you know, over our Congress, the White House, and just what the war exposed, the slaughter and gaza.
They couldn't do. Really, you're right, You're right.
You couldn't design a better way to expose you know, uh, just the criminal nature of the Jewish lobby. And it's and it's sort of it's the grip, you know that it's that the Jewish octopus has over over the country, over the West, and it's it's this voracious you know, uh, like the vampire squid, you know, and there's no way to and you know, I guess the old people aren't admitting it.
Are the people who, guess who still want to.
I think they can get some sort of favor from them, or don't think it's polite, but anyone who's keen to the scene, if you will, would have to admit it, and it's it's been fully exposed, and you know, so they've totally blown their cover and they have no moral credibility anymore. And so if they lose soft power, they have to revert to hard power, and that's something they'd never been good at because there's such a small minority. So they have to rely on I guess, financial leverage
or manipulation. They buy up media, legacy media, like Larry Ellison buying up you know, CBS and installing Barry Weiss, you know, no credibility there anywhere CBS News if they there wasn't any any remaining there, or you know, the forced sale of TikTok, right, which is such an obvious maneuver because that's where Israel's being criticized. Let's buy TikTok, you know, and say it's because of the Chinese, you know, but it's obvious at this point. And now it's you know,
you know. And now apparently with this piece deal that there appears to be some daylight between Washington and Tel Aviv, and we'll see if that holds. See what the what the Jews try to do now because they're the you know, this is the uh. They haven't confessed this much since the end, since the resurrection, so we'll see.
I like that turn of phrase. I think I'm gonna steal it the uh. Yeah, And that's that's I guess. One of the the interesting trends lines right is is can their capacity for control in the short run outrun entropy because you know, you look at the the kind of alarmism around you know, flock cameras and the kind of AI control tools that you know, companies like Palanteer are bringing over the market, let alone what we've seen you know, in the Europe and in Europe and the UK.
And there's certainly some kind of chapter of you know, people who basically look at as you know, it's all over, it will be this kind of global you know, school teacher panopticon managing what you're allowed to deal with.
The holl of state reserts, resorts to tyrannical measures because it has no credibility or legitimacy, uh with the public, so asked the resort to police state tax. That's why the UK is becoming airstrip one right so well.
And you know, much like the Greater Israel Project, I'm quite convinced that there are people who want that to happen, who would like for that to be the case. But someone wanting it and having the ability to do it, I mean, those are two different buckets there, right, Yeah, I think like I can want that.
America lacks the military might do it, the political will to do it, and Israel certainly lacks the resources do it. They rely on American muscle to do this, and America is shown that it cannot do it. So now what's their next move?
And apparently, at least as far as I can tell, I don't know if they have a clear idea. You know, there are certain times and maybe this is again just a historical anomaly where it feels like you can tell the direction the wind is blowing, and maybe not on a cultural level, but the direction the elites are pulling. And this was very very clear, you know, during the kind of pandemic years and then the inn to Biden. You know, there were these phrases kind of echoing everywhere.
You know, of course, you know, build back Better as an infamous one, but you know many others that sort of signaled the direction in which the good people are going and obviously there's the kind of normal stuff around, you know, President Trump, who I get the feeling Tim you and I are not exactly staunch supporters of. But other than that, I can't really tell what the direction is.
The signaling seems very very muddled. And the kind of old stalwarts, right, the things you could always count on as sort of a you know, a I guess you would call it like a narrative slumpbuster. Well those have been gone for a long time, Like when was the last time you heard about climate change? That one was
kind of dropped off the face of the map. And maybe I'm just gun shy, you know, maybe I'm just overly pessimistic, which I'm willing to take as a criticism, but I sort of have this feeling of like, you know, what's the narrative, Like, what's the thing coming down the pike? Because I think we've seen a sort of half hearted attempt to make that Aliens in UFOs, but that didn't really go anywhere. No one seemed to care.
No, there's that movie that's that right, Yeah, yeah, by.
Yeah, I mean it's.
Gonna what undermine Christianity or something. So he said his movie, I mean his movies has been doing that for fifty years.
That's what I was gonna say. It would be the first time, wouldn't be the first time.
I mean, but at my point is he's saying this, he said apparently, well it would also undermine Chris.
You know, really religion anymore. It's it's a it's a it's an identity.
It's not really so, I guess, but it's kind of like he said, it would undermine it do the worst. The biggest start to Christianity was something to the effect that, you know, the biggest challenge of Christianity ever something Africa with these that quote, it's like, why it's a movie, I mean as opposed to like the subset of that part of it is, well, we'll look at that a the UFOs I mean's god the Christ doesn't exist or it didn't exist or doesn't exist what he means by that.
But my joke is disclosure.
When it was coming out and I said, oh, look to this, it's a challenge to religion is so that means Israel and all that clean to right issual isn't doesn't exist.
Then so we can forget all about that.
Well, look, we understand how this works right one way. It sure is interesting that but I mean that that's another interesting element of this is that the central.
Yeah, uphology or you aliens, all, that's all.
That's that's like CIA, right, but I mean like say what you will about the Dolf of Gulf of Tonkin. Wow, yeah, it's a professional podcaster. I can't speak. But you know, uh, it worked. You know, they got their war. The majority of people who went there actually signed up to do it.
You know.
Okay, they kind of had a gun to their head, I guess, but you know, it produced the desired result, where with this it's like, well what is it produced?
The movies?
Okay, it's only been out for a week, but it doesn't seem to be doing particularly well at least a week in. You know, it's it's made its budget back. We understand that that means it lost money when you you know, account for other things.
From in a sense not well executed. I didn't I don't tend to see it. But people say it's just not a good movie, which.
Right, it's like not even the kind of bad where it's fun, you know, the kind of bad at least from what I've heard, where it's like you can sort of chuckle.
Take me where there's a lot of stark. It's propaganda, but it was fun propaganda. Oh yeah, exactly.
I don't like the movie.
By the way, Yeah, the Nazis did not not control Egypt of nineteen thirty six. Where's the Lost start?
You know, I'm gonna go ahead out and go out on a limb to him and say, that might not be the biggest factual departure in that movie, but that is a very relevant one.
Well, yeah, yeah, but it's very entertaining. You gotta give it is actually very entertaining. A great movie, you know, And I don't really anything see anything particularly serversive in.
Jaws, you know.
Oh, well, don't you know the shark's last name Bruce.
And the name is Bruce. You're supposed to be Jewish? Oh okay.
And the Christopher's girl that dies is miss Watkins, who's caflic because she's just as she's being Debora, she's calling out Catholic prayers as she's dying.
Yeah, so.
It turns out you could make fascinating conversations about movies when you make up all the details.
Uh, Price Leeperwitz, that's right. Well, plus he.
Already had the operation, but the uh anyway, the departure from Shark Biology.
But how many alien movies has people have made? I was like, obviously it's close Accounts of Three Counts is first? Right? Et right? Et? I guess you could say War the Worlds. Yeah, okay, and this am I right at it. Yes, I mean one of the one of the sequels to as well start involved aliens.
Right, I'm pretty sure Crystal whatever that last one that not so, Yes, he did the Crystal skull, Chrystal Scull.
Yeah, so there's that.
And you know, so I remember seeing it close downs the third time when it first came out in the theater, uh, late seven.
I'm that old. I remember when to go see the theater. Uh.
That movie was very well executed, and it has scenes that they were very good. He got to give see his due. He know he was or is or was at least a very talented director. But there's every see the scene where the uh in the clost counslerd Kim went, they're doing the air traffic control. So yeah, very good, it's riveting. It's a very simple scene. He just draws you in and but yeah, of the movie. He was
a Richard Dreyfus. You know, uh, Richard Dreyfus. Dreyfus, the fairies actually related to that guy.
He leaves his family to go off with the alliens. Remember I was that guy was ten years old and I came out and watching them, like, that's awful. He's got a family, which.
By the way, I realized I'm like the probably millionth person to make this point. But the fact that this man uh directed and produced both Jurassic Park and Schindler's List in the same year is one, you know, full credit, Uh, I have to give him credit for a work ethic. And two that's gotta be some tonal whiplash, you know, walking from.
One Jones Michael Jones said that shielsis he got everyone to believe in the Holocaust. Now he's hoping this we got everyone to believe in all.
Right, that's a good line. I'll give him credit, and.
He tweeted that it was very funny, as you know. But this questioned Schiller's List is when he reveals that the showers are all actually showers. I remember watching the theater thinking, I know the narrative here, I know what to expecting. Wait, there's showers.
It's also the genesis of UH. I probably the funniest joke in Seinfeld history, which is Jerry Seinfeld making out with his girlfriend.
During you made out during.
It's like, okay, that's a that's a good joke.
It's the showers and of course it's the shower scene, Chris, the shower scene. They're killing a bunch of women, so you're throw in a bunch of naked women. So you're watching that, of course on the on the large screen, right,
that's gonna get your attention. But you know, there's there was Howard Stern years later when SISIs was broadcasting ABC uninterrupted, remember a network premiere event you have to watch just back when the network television still existed, right, I mean people still watched it, and uh they showed an uninterrupted uncut And of course there are sex scenes in that movie. Of course, there's a shower scene, a lot of nudity and all that sort of stuff in the in there
in it, and it's not just contexture. It's like sexual that sort of thing in the movie, you know. And Horod Starman was complaining because Harrod Sttern had had his you know, is true with the UH with the FCC with obscenity, and he was all he was complaining. He was covetching You go, jeez man, letting him show that on television. This is just for saying things. Is you want to show new to the on television, just kill a bunch of Jews.
Yeah.
The uh, the reason I guess that I wanted to to bring up the whole aliens thing is not that I particularly care, but just that it seems like everyone doesn't care. You know. It's this kind of like weird, half hearted attempt at you know, uh, injecting relevance again. And obviously people are more political than ever, but it's
just that everything is so divided. There's no real sort of overwhelming narrative about anything like And I was even thinking, I was this is sort of those naive thoughts I remember as a teenager, thinking, you know what we need, We need some big, scary external threat to just unify this country, you know, another nine to eleven if you will.
And Independence Day was right the movie exactly.
Yea, yeah, you could at least, you know, as a teenager, it seemed logical enough.
In movie, by the way, awful movie.
Yeah, it didn't age well. The one that came out in the twenty tens was No Better. That was kind of one of the first China movies I ever saw. Were like, wait a minute, why why are there a bunch of Chinese actors featuring prominently? And the plot is basically about how the Chinese government saves everyone. And you're like, all, right, rolling emeric. I get at times they're tough, but you know, do you really have to go to je'son paning to
fund this? And the answered apparently yes, but right, whether it was simply you know, the proliferation of the Internet or the further disintegration of American culture.
Black and a Jew that saved the world, so well, you.
Know, it is my favorite documentary, so I guess we have to make all, uh make a conclusion off of that.
But the uh but in all seriousness, right, like I don't I was, you know, alive for not alive, and I don't have memories of it, but from friends and family they speak about this at least feeling of you know, national unity for a few weeks, and at least in the you know, the twenty odd years that separated that in you know, the pandemic, it seems like that ability to manufacture some kind of good feeling, and consensus just went completely out the window. In each case there was
this kind of external threat. And that shows you, right, at least, I feel like that's one good explanation the downsides to a completely totally splintered culture that even when you have that rally behind the flag moment, well, people are so different. They have such different ideas, such different understandings of concepts like you know, fairness and justice, you know what's appropriate action, that even in that sort of stress test, you can't make it work.
No, No, Chris, I am old enough to remember nine eleven, I was now an adult.
And one thing, they actually got people buying duct tape to seal their houses from a chemical attack.
There's a round on duct tape. They didn't work. Well, no one died from a chemical attack, so it did work, right.
So I think it worked one hundred percent. Where it's like Homer Simpson's, uh, you know tiger repellent or whatever.
Exactly, yeah, exactly, tigers, See it works.
Uh.
They used to have to remember the color. You probably don't remember the color. You might remember the the colored alerts on Fox News.
Uh, is this like the terrorism DHS. Yes, I remember that as airports.
Yeah, we hear, we hear chatter, there's chatter, and uh they would issue yellow red.
Based on vague chatter.
Like it's smoky the bear warning you about a wildfire.
Yeah, yeah, yep.
And the NYPD admitted that they would often just set off sirens and go buzzing down.
The streets just to freak people out. They remember the soldiers, troops armed with like a machine guns on street corners. You know that, you're just there. What's that going to do? Right? So it's just it's all about, yeah, creating a climate of fear.
Of course, that not to get into the whole the true nature of those of those date of that day's event, right, the you know, the attacks and who is behind them and what really happened. But yeah, it maybe maybe exultso because that air, that feeling of unity was exploited to start another war, right a couple of years later in March of two thousand and three, And.
It was cynically exploited.
Oh yeah, well, and that's the thing. Maybe this is me being both too naive than too cynical at once. But I would like to believe the people in charge are competent enough to engineer a situation like that. And you know, maybe it's just the culture won't bear it, or maybe they're just too dumb. I'd be willing to hear either case.
Well again, it's uh, I think what we're saying is it's kind of decadence an entropy. Right, It's what we see is progress is like decadence an entropy. And so yeah, after a while, if you look at look at our diplomats, look at our look at our ambassador Israel, Mike Kabee. He recently said that his job is there to defend Israel.
Well Tim even worse than that, he did, you know, his special cover of Sweet Home, Alabama in Sweet Homierushel, which you know, I think if we can send someone to the Hague for being embarrassing, he might be a good first candidate really for his own benefit, if not others. It's it's like the violence you do to yourself?
Is that what they also the sectuary state.
I'm I don't Lincoln Blincoln, no blinking Blincoln did a summer I thing because Lincoln likes to play the guitar.
Was the two of them? Yeah, I know it was Huckabee.
Yeah, another one.
I can't remember what the song you covered was, but he decided that that wasn't enough. He needed to come back for more.
Was it Freebird or something?
And well, Tim, this has been a ton of fun. I appreciate you coming on and just kind of shooting the breeze with me. I always enjoy it.
So what was the talk? Dude?
Do you think I know all? I want to talk about narrative aliens? I don't know. We talked about circumcised sharks halfway through this, Uh, I mean.
He's he really was a twenty seven foot shark, got twenty twenty foot or twenty five three tons of them.
I'm not counting the circumcision.
Where can people fly to your work? Can they fly your work?
Oh? It's my podcast. I've been doing it for is it twelve years? Twelve years? Wow?
It's our interesting times. It's on potomatic. You can find it on YouTube. It's also on substack. There you can actually support it kicking a few bucks. And of course I also do a weekly show. It's a conversation that evered Joe outwell. So people always comment, you know, stop interrupting your guest.
It's not my guest. It's it's a show. We talked, we talk back and forth.
Is a piece of podcasting technique I never quite figured out the problem is. It's like, look like an interview is kind of boring. It's like, you you want to actually have a conversation, and uh, I'm just this rude in person.
Tim.
It's not merely an effect I put onto the internet.
So yeah, it's it's. Uh, people always have their own ideas. You know, they constantly will putting mean comments, constans.
Like why do you listen to me? Then?
Exactly? You know, when you know it's free. If I hated it this much, I'd just turn it off. Uh, which is, you know, probably not the best podcasting advice, tell your audience to leave, but uh, you know it's it's the business strategy I've gone with again, Tim, this was a ton of fun. To everyone at home, keep your head up. I can't last Trapper.
Good night. That's that's that's the
Gay Lagari Program.