We Told You So w/ Stormy Waters: Ep. 482

But what really matters is what's big on social media. Big on YouTube, big on TikTok, big on Instagram, And that applies to pretty much every hobby, and it certainly applies to politics. I mean, look at what I'm doing here. But with that, of course, comes the shill, right, someone who uses their audience to enrich themselves, get paid to say certain things. You now, a lot of times this

is just undisclosed advertising or even disclosed advertising. You know, this episode brought to you by insert whatever it is. And I think that we are well attuned to that, right, the deliberate paid speaker. Let me see this with influencers all the time. You know, even Tim Poole, right, got busted for taking a whole bunch of money from Russia. And maybe he didn't know and don't know the specific of that. That DNC twin carries this on. I think

that's how you say his name, right. They are a number of these, right on both sides of the political wile because people understand one it's cheaper, right, you don't have to spend a lot of money to get a lot of result. And two, this is how decisions are made, This is how people formulate their opinions. They go to

the Internet, they don't go to traditional media. And when we're looking at a time like ours where the conservative movement, which okay we may not be a part of, but we're certainly in dialogue with conservatives, are floundering become really difficult to figure out, Well, where is this coming from?

Some of it, like I said, is direct. So this race, Thomas Massey's primary has been really fascinating because a lot of money has been going and I'm sure you guys all remember what with polymarket no points for guessing, you know where they get their money from? Who owns it? But of course, right, big kind of nothing sex scandal. His ex girlfriend alleges that he got her fired from her job I think an intern right after they broke up. There's nothing to it, right, He denies it. Everyone at

the office she works at denies it. Her friends deny it. It's nothing, but it was promoted because they want Massy up, and very quickly, of course Polymarket, which weirdly enough, the betting markets have sort of become a stand in for polling shift dramatically and that becomes the error, that becomes the point you promote. Oh he's cooked, he's done, and who knows, right, we haven't actually finished the primary yet.

Like I said in the episode, I'm not the biggest Massy guy, but you know what, as much as it matters, he's got my support. And so there's that the kind of direct reaching your fingers into the conversation. But there's another level as well, a kind of softer control. I think it's very important to look at, and it's important to examine when we're wondering, well, why can't the right

get anything done? Why does it seem that you know, there's there's money raised, there's a project, and then nothing right? And all that just comes down to soft control, the kind of carrot and sticks the decentralized media landscape enables.

So money is perhaps the easiest one. So X formerly Twitter pays you, right, you can get a decent amount of money by posting there, But of course it's a constantly adjusted algorithm, so you are getting played, right, You are getting paid to produce certain types of content, and sometimes that's just a formatting thing. You know, how short

is it? Is it too repetitive? Whatever? You can kind of understand, right, X is a business, and certainly you know there are sort of things that they would rather you be doing than things that they wouldn't. But you're an idiot if you think that it only applies to that sort of stuff, That only applies to how long the video is. If you're spamming content every five minute right.

That enables people to control the conversation, to lead people with money and on the back end, of course, with bands or restrictions, into talking what they want to talk about. And I think that this is really interesting when we look at why certain stories disappear or certain stories won't disappear. Epstein is great example. Right, that story is still big in the culture. Right, people are talking about it. It's a joke in certain context. Right, people bring it up

as you know, a celebrity roasts and the like. The media is done with it, they've moved on, and big influencers their following course, something is being moving on from it. And I think that there's another thing to be aware if we're talking about this sort of cognito warfare, right, is that also there's a deliberate desire in my mind to pollute the waters, right, to promote using those same carrots and sticks we talked about, whether it's money or

reach or whatever, a deliberately dumb or inflammatory version. So you saw this with the nine eleven Truther stuff, right, what gets the big headlines. It's loose change. It's a kind of overly conspiratorial view of what it was, and the very real concerns of like, well, wait a minute, who trained these guys wide and seemingly, you know, our government and the government Israel seemed to know about this, right,

there were very suspicious things on the front end. Let alone that the flight that went down over Pennsylvania, with the very real questions was that shot down. That all gets kind of swept under the rug. Conversation becomes holograms, becomes integral explosives built into the towers, things like that. And so for a third party, someone who isn't necessarily super interested, when they go to look or when they have this conversation, their associations are poisoned by the coops,

poisoned by the learn it takes right. And this is the meaning of that phrase you've probably heard before, a limited hangout right, a little bit of something, but it's a cul de sac, never get to you any And I think that that's something else we see a lot of lastly, and this is something that I think we need to be very cautious about. Let's be honest. For many people, politics as entertainment, and I don't begrudge anyone that, like, look,

not all of these shows are particularly serious. I clearly am not a consistent, serious political podcast, even though that might now. But at the same time, when you combine that with the influencer dynamics, it leads to the sort of blood sports version of politics where nothing matters outside of being content to increase my own clout, my own audience,

the bag that I get. And I think that, especially as we go through a time where it feels like energy is low, it feels like people are burnt out and burnt out for very good reasons, reasons that I've laid out in many other of these monologues, that behavior is going to keep going. That behavior of fracture, that behavior of saying something deliberately shocking or stupid just to get that clicks right, is going is going to continue. And I think that this is something that we have

to be very cautious of because entertainment and quality. And I don't mean quality in the sense of like, you know, the most aeradite, the most you know npr ask, but to say that, you know, there are a lot of things that are very entertaining that really suck attention that are one not particularly good politics, and two not particularly good for you. And I'm not saying this to be your mom right to tell you what to watch and whatnot.

But again, I think there is a deliberate desire to neuter certain things coming from the radical right, to spend people off into kind of pants on head, retarded conspiracy theories, to spin them off into kind of the entertainment sphere right, to spend them off away from the uncomfortfortable, very difficult fractures in our current political order, the questions that really we don't have an answer to, and that any investigation

thoroughly delegitimizes a regime that's already flounder. And when I say floundering, I do mean floundering. Both sides of politics are in a very tough spot. And the post war consensus right, the sort of unwritten rules that dominated American politics for the last eighty years, I mean, it's crumbling. It's completely and totally falling apart. You see that in just the cultural disillusion, there is really no Median American culture anymore. Part of this is demographic, part of it

is cultural. Part of it is just due to the fact that there are fewer and fewer actual Americans in this country than ever ever. But nonetheless, this is a fundamentally unstable system, it's no shock that people are looking for answers elsewhere. And well, if you've got the tiger by the tail, if you're on top of this very kind of unstable game of janga, well that's no use to you at all. You're much better served if people are very worried about Emmanuel Macron's wife. Right, whatever combination

of genitalias you have, that's more helpful. And we don't even need to bring the AI into it to notice this. But once you have that ability to generate basically nonsense content, that ability to artificially boost replies, that ability to artificially create a conversation, you can see that that is the battle. Right.

That is the info war, as Alex Jones would say, and something to be aware of, because really, what this episode you're about to hear is all about is one about that dynamic, right, the cognito war, but also this problem that conservative movement America's face deep generational divide, which was sharply shown by what we saw in Massi's primary. His support He's got strong support minus fifty five and he loses out plus fifty five. And that's interesting because

sure we understand old voters show up more. This has been a rule in American politics for a long time, so it's entirely possible that Massy loses this. There's been millions coming in from the Israel lobby, miss millions coming in from Miriam Adelson, So it's very possible that he loses. But much like the genocibein Gaza, much like the war in Iran, a short term victory doesn't solve the very real long term problems and very real long term problem

for Israel's obvious. You know, they're just in a tough spot geopolitically, with a lot of enemies around them, making more by the day and declining support in America. But as regards the conservative movement, they have a platform, what they actually do that appeals to a relatively narrow slice of the electorate. Sure, they're overrepresented in Republican politics, they're overrepresented in their current voters, but their agent and the

people below them do not share those values. And so maybe the idea is just like a shoot bomba ran kill the Ietola of whatever, just throw everything at the wall. It seems as if there's a desire to sort of spin up kind of completely and totally encodate Internet narratives. Oh, you know, Massy is a sexual predator. Oh, you're a paid agent of Oh this is exactly what the chicoms want. Oh, this is exactly what the woke left is kind of flailing and who knows. Over the short term it may work,

although I'm not entirely convinced Massy. That's kind of a toss up. But when it comes to the actual fight for well, what does the average conservative, right right of center guy think? I think they're cooked there. But what comes next? This ultimately is a delaying action. It doesn't address that core issue, especially if the cost of living crisis balloons, because sure they have some ways to address that. There's sort of some built in narratives being built, but

already they're showing signs of weakening. These narratives are not holding up, and this could genuinely be and it seems to be the beginning of an apocalypse for the American conservative movement. I've spoken before of the deep divides running through pretty much every conservative quote unquote institution in America. One of the big stories over the past couple of

weeks has been the crumbling of the Daily Wire. They lost people that were positive the official party line on Israel and Iran is let's put it this way, a little off putting to say it mildly, but nonetheless, of course, there is a narrative. Oh, it's just the fake news media. Oh it's just this, it's just that. But Ben, if I can call you Ben, your company's going under. You're losing money, handover fist. You've been subsidized by the rest

of your business for the best part of ten years. Right, At a certain point, that ability to spend a narrative, if it just does not comport with reality, runs out. And I think that's really what we're getting. I've spoken before about the paradigm shift right, the previous version of politics, the postwar consensus, whatever you want to call it, that kind of version of conservatism that has existed since Goldwater and really since Reagan. It's past it cell by day,

and sure it will linger. It is already lingering. But you look at Massey's race. If it's plus fifty five, well, okay, there's a lot of people that are plus fifty five. That's at least for the very bottom of that demo. That's thirty more years of voting, which is a long time. But that's not entirely how it works, right, because a large portion of that is seventy five plus. Another larger percentage is sixty five plus, and those people don't have

that much time. So what becomes of this party, right, what becomes of this political tendency, because seemingly it's headed for the ground, right, it is poised to destroy itself. And I'm up two minds about that one truly, I despise the leaders of the Conservative movement. I despise these shills, despise these sort of Zionist goods, have no sympathy for them whatsoever. The actual people, right, American Conservatives, the Red Staters are in my mind, they're the best people in

this country. They are this country, really, and I don't know where they will go. There's no seeming next place for them, right, there's no seeming successor to MAGA and the Conservative movement, which feels very much as if it's on a precipice.

could have worked with that, Well, that's no option. And as well, it becomes quite clear that even you know, a minorly heterodox conservative is not welcome mass He's out MTG, who again not my favorite politician, not someone I have a particularly deep affection for, but she's out too, and the party line right with they're determined to keep is non functional. So what happens? Where do we go? And

that's really a question I'm interested in. For a long time, I've been assuming that the next interesting conversation would be, well, what happens with MAGA? Who is the successor? And I still think that's an interesting question. Seems like JD has been well and truly sidetracked. But in my mind anymore, it almost doesn't matter. The point where Trump and by extension, MEGA has lost the white working class, that voting coalition

doesn't really exist anymore. It's not in the same way. Now, that doesn't mean, of course, that there is a right wing voting block in a mirror that there aren't people who don't want the insane excesses of the American left impact, and who knows that may be enough to let them skate. The redistricting, if it goes through, may be enough to let them skate, to let Trump avoid the embarrassment, prosecution, and potential impeachment. But again, we're not solving this issue.

These are delaying acts. These are kicking the can down the road hoping it will go away, and fundamentally it will not. Because the contradictions of the post war consensus, the previous version of politics have become so painfully aware and things that are no longer unacceptable to speak about in polite society. You can say things that ten fifteen years ago would have pushed you out of any normal conversation to hit the mainstream. Well, how is that brought

back in? How do you weld these people back to a system of values that are completely, in totally one hundred and eighty degrees opposite of what they believe, what they hold. I don't think you can, and that's why I think this is ultimately doomed, ultimately cooked, as the kids would say, So it's an interesting time. It's a very interesting time sort of watch things move, I think. Is one example, the college student recently killed by a sekh in England. Right, this kid was not allowed to

carry a knife. If you're a sek, you are for religious purposes. Stabbed, tried to climb over a fence, stabbed in the heart. And when the police showed up, take the white kid, the English kid handcuff it because his attacker said, oh he was racist. Kid drowned in his black right in front of the police. And you look at that and you're like, okay, to put it mildly, it's not good to a very bad situation, but it exposes this fault line quite simply. There are another set

of rules. And okay, the Republicans can beat their chest about rule of law. Fundamentally, we've reached a position where many people, not a majority, but enough people are looking at and say, well, this is anti white discrimination. There is another set of rules. We are second class citizens

in our own nation. It's one example. Arena Zuritskas is perhaps an even more dominant one that this rash of killers and criminals being let off on basically nothing because they are declared to be mentally unwell, an option that is not available to you or I and all of this, and it's reached a point where this idea really has

broken containment. Now we're not populous here, right, We're not looking for that fifty one percent to convince everyone so we can vote in, you know, mister Basement, to turn the cory around, make everything sensible again, to fix it. It's not what we're looking for. But at a very fundamental level, regimes need buy in. They need a way, They need that soft power that doesn't require them to have a policeman on every corner people to enforce the morality.

It's the mandate of heaven, right, that kind of X factor, that little squishy thing where everyone kind of believes the police are legitimate. So when you see the cherries and berriers, you pull over. You don't make a run for it. You know, if if one of your friends, you know, if a policeman comes to the door, you might tell him where he is. Because you have this general assumption.

Then now this must be serious, and must authorities are legitimate, and not to say we fully reach the stage of illegitimacy. But that moral distance, which creates that feeling of tyranny for the rule that our values are not aligned is a deep problem. And it's a particularly deep problem for the Republican Party, which doesn't have the advantage of being the true deep establishment, that doesn't have the advantage of controlling the civil service, of controlling law, of controlling all

of these other things. They don't have the same well of hard power to draw, so they're much more dependent on that soft power. And so really they're in a bad spot. Not like I feel any sympathy for them, And honestly, I've been feeling sort of conflicted about this redistricting because on one hand, it's like, I want them to face the consequences right here and now. I don't want them to kick the can down the road. But also redistricting would benefit me, so'll do what every podcaster does,

fail to make a definite prediction and then declare victory afterwards. Yeah, it's an interesting, interesting time for them. I don't see how they get out of it. So, without further ado, kick you over. In the episode Stormy doing some clothing, of course, about our gop SAMs an option take from last year, proven to be incredibly correct, and then getting into the sort of influencer control cognito warfare I mentioned

at the beginning. We get into it though. Check out our sponsor, Fox and Soon's Coffee East Code J Bird get fifteen percent off, drank it this morning, yel Salvadorian roast the Salvadoran. Is that how you'd say it?

I need you guys. Guys have been amazing at supporting me, and I know the ads are irritating, but that's how you get out of them, right, Give me money anyway? Your story, Waters, story, Waters, Welcome back to the Jaybird Show.

in totally correct, right. The one of the big parts of that was this desire to sort of allow losses to happen and then blame the so called woke right far right, and uh, well we've seen exactly that, right that the setbacks we've seen themestically have been deliberately foisted on the grouper's, the Nazis, whatever your slur is there.

And I think one it's important for us to, you know, to take a victory lap right, we were right, But also I think that there's an interesting dynamic which is effectively Trump may be able to skate more than we would have guessed because of redistricting. That effectively, at least as far as I look at, as far as I'm reading the data, if all elections were done on the lines that they are currently done, the Republicans would get demolished.

They'd lose the Senate in the House. But this recent spate of redistricting striking down the Voting Rights Act has basically opened the door for the GOP to basically keep some sort of a grip on power. So one Starring, I'll throw back to you, let you gloat a little bit, and then two I'd be curious to get your thoughts on that.

Like oh are you excited? Like no, no, actually, this is fucking horrible and I wish I wasn't right, But is that I think that's what being a member of the woke right, a woke right nazi of the actually a member of the one thousand year woke Reich. This I think, how how I like to put it is perpetually being right about things you wish you weren't And this is, you know, another one in a long line of things were right about that we wish we weren't

right about. And as far as like I think the redistricting, I think the Republican redistricting efforts or lack thereof, is very similar to what we see in the Senate with the Save Act. Right to pass the Save Act would be to if not ensure, highly increase the likelihood of you know, Republican continuity, therefore not giving you the loss that you very much need to basically detonate the GOP and reform without you know, the rapidly growing America First faction.

So when I see like Indiana Republicans this and not state Republicans coming up with the dumbest reasons to like welch on redistricting, I think, like South Carolina is doing the same thing right now, Teamy, like the head of the had of the South Carolina what is it the state Senate, I can't remember what they have whatever, like issued like a joint statement with Lindsay Graham about how

they don't they think redistricting is dangerous. It's like they it's starting to get really obvious that they need to lose, like that's what the goal is. And I see Republican you know, the type of Republicans you and I despise, getting more and more transparent in their efforts to ensure an l.

been highly disparate. Thomas's opponent Gallerin, Thomas Ed Galleran, that's his name, who is sort of an empty suit chamber of commerce type. Has gotten a whole lot of money from Mura Madelson, from other prominent figures, and after the most recent drop for gallerin which, by the way, I assume is how we say his name, I don't know anything about him and seemingly neither does anyone else. He exists as a body right to occupy that seat. Got

this kind of latest cast infusion. Well, all of a sudden, this.

style random scandal pulled out of a hat. But very quickly we see the betting markets swing wildly. And why did it swing well because a bunch of money came in on Goweran's side against Massi and that distorts the market. This distortion in the betting market is then reported on as you know, bookies think it's sixty forty. Goweran's got this in the back. It's all over. And what's especially weird, and I'm not sure if you notice this Stormy was

that these posts from uh was it Kelshy? And then one of the other betting sites I saw, yeah, we're promoting these as advertisement, right, like they were paying to promote these.

So I sent you this storm here, but I'll break it down or for excuse me, my listeners, this is the support by age demo with a hard break at fifty five, So seventeen to twenty five Massy plus twenty five, twenty six to thirty five Massi's up fifty six points, and then up thirty eight and seventeen up to age fifty five. And then that's when we see it flip right. For every age gap past or for every age group past fifty six, Gallerin wins by double digits. Right as

you get older, that becomes more true. And look, we understand old people are overrepresented due to the US population. I would say pyramid kind of weird column. Also due to the nature of who votes in Republican primaries and also due to the nature of the Republican Party, but they were massively over indexed in the polling. Right, they specifically waited older voters more So, when you take all of this at once, it seems as if and forgive you know, the kind of direct language, but it seems

like this is an op right. It seems like there is a deliberate desire to engineer a social consensus that Galleran is walking away with it. So I threw a bunch at you there, Stormy. I'm curious to get your thoughts on it.

saw a similar thing in the twenty twenty election. So seeing stuff like this actually makes me a little bit nervous because if you're going to do something really shady, and you know you're gonna do something shady, it's imperative that you do stuff like this beforehand, right or else you know you can't have it be if you're going to do something shady, it can't be a surprise, right. Everyone has to expect the result that you're going to create.

That's a result that nobody looks into because why would they. The results are just matching what everybody thought they were going to be beforehand. Right. So this type of shaping operation, which is what it is, makes me nervous. But that being said, it also it highlights a point that I don't think a lot of people consider our adversaries main asymmetric advantage over us. It sures fuck, not numbers, right, It sure's fuck not smarts or looks. It's money. And

what does money buy you? In politics? It buys you very specific things, right, Like, when somebody is in power, it buys you you know, their power. You can rent it and use it as your own beat it like a rental car. But when it's on the way up, politics uses money very specifically. Right. It's ads, it's ads, it's ads, it's ads, right, it is awareness. Money will buy you awareness even if people don't want to be aware.

But what it can't buy you is conversion. Right, So you have on one side eleven million dollars being spent by people that are probably some of the most contemptible human beings alive, and that money is an order of magnitude greater than the money on the side that they are, you know, waging political warfare against and it's really something that's not going to last. Like this asymmetric advantage is running out, right, what do what does money buy?

So that doesn't work very well either. You could do paid influencers, but that really doesn't work either, as we're seeing with a couple notable right wing influencers right now. Because the Internet is forever right, the only way you get influence is saying the right things. And the type of things that Jay and I say are the right things, right, Like, if you are a Christian, if you're an American and decent person like you are going to align with us

on almost anything. Right. There's very little things that we would say that are really you know, things that people could disagree with in practicality. You may agree with it in principle, but you understand it and you could look back on the internet for forever. And Jay and I have been saying roughly the same things since we started

saying things at all. So when there's a phase change, right, all of a sudden, Jay has become very, very enthusiastic a proponent, if you will, of the nation of Israel, I will say, wow, that's crazy. That's a clear and distinct change in his opinion based on anything he said prior. This is suspicious, and he begs the question, well, why have you changed your opinion? And usually you don't get a very you don't get a sufficient answer to that. Right.

So even the paid influencer, right, the long play that you can buy with money, that doesn't much work either. So the thing that is their greatest advantage and in the age of you know, the age of super PACs from like the you know, really like the political life cycle of the boomers. Politics was a game about money, and I don't think it is anymore. I think we're in the birth pains of politics. However it ends up shaking out where how much money you spend doesn't matter

as much as it used to. I think the straits are too dire.

man himself from a larkey. But uh, when I see things like that, and you know, there are certain other things I have seen from other media institutions that maybe I'm just too cynical, but you almost wonder if, like there is still money flying around, just not the sort that gets directly reported as campaign contributions, you know. I mean I even think of so much of the negative coverage around Massy, like, yes, sure, a big part of it is simply, you know, he hasn't done himself any favors.

He has been kind of annoying, Like I get that why people would be you know, kind of motivated to go after it. And also, let's be honest, like there is a group of people who don't care nearly as much about the kind of you know, foreign wars stuff and have largely kind of forgotten the situation with Iran. But I do always wonder, you know, to what degree is is simply the game being played on more and more fields all at once in kind of an obfuscated way, but maybe it's respiratorials.

Superschat's a very anonymous way of paying somebody, and it actually in how it exists, So like what a superchat is like in the way a superchat exists, It just so happens to exist in the best way that you could want a mechanism to covertly pay somebody, right, small increments, just loots.

way to see what or originates where. And in the age of agentic AI, it would take maybe fifteen minutes to have you know, two open clawbots set up twenty thirty different YouTube accounts, loaded with prepaid credit cards, and and they'll just literally that that shit will run an autopilot, and you the person, are basically doing the same exact thing. Instead of handing tim Pool one hundred grand, you are just going to drop into an account that all your

little open claws share. And you've effectively done the same thing but made it not traceable in any meaningful way. You've added layers of bob fu station above and beyond what even people that are trying to opustate do, just in the way that the platform happens to be laid out. You would be stupid if you knew anything about money and somebody said this is our objective, we need to pay these people, you would take one look at this

and be like, this is how we're going to do it. Right, So it's not even like be it's not even like, oh, this is a possibility, this is the best tool for the job. Right. So if it is a possibility at all, which it is, right, we know these people again by their opinions changing and always changing on very very critical things, right, so they will be you know, call it in a

meta sense, they will be against you know, Israel. Whateverly warded generally in this direction, but then in the one critical moment, right in the clutch, they will come up with another different reason why they're going to support doing the same thing. Right. It's these type of these people I've noticed, right, They're only wrong when it counts, And if you wanted to pay those people, that is how you would do it. That's how anyone with half a fucking brain would do it. This is also why I

see Twitter monetization. I was against Twitter monetization from the very beginning. And you know, it's great that guys are getting paid and you're able to support yourself, you know. And it The reason why I don't talk about it that much anymore is because I'm an incredibly privileged position. So it's a lot easier for somebody like me to say, no, you shouldn't do this, like this is a bad idea,

don't do this. It's a lot harder for somebody who you know, has got two kids, is struggling to support himself and in reality probably just lost his job. Like, it's a lot different of a thing for me to say, I know, you shouldn't you know, you shouldn't let Twitter pay you. You shouldn't let YouTube pay you because the compromise is kind of built in well, and it.

you have a carrot and a stick. Right, you can take that away and look like anyone who and look, I have to deal with this, right, There's certain things that I have to say and remove later or that they talk about delicately, yeah, which means I forget nine times out of ten. But I mean it becomes a you know, a method for control. And this is something that Jack a Little talked about and people who read Jack a Little love to talk about. But the problem is, like,

this is just sort of how human society works. Right, there are carrots and sticks. Productive behavior is rewarded, unproductive behavior is punished. Like that system is simply human. Now the problem is, well, how does that apply to us? And how is it being used? And I think what we've all seen is the monetization of Twitter has been absolutely disastrous, right, it has turned it into a like it's just a slop pact and.

And this is the thing like if you got paid per post, let's say, or you got paid per superchat, with a relatively small amount of money and a little bit of dedication or a little bit of automation, I will slowly and I guarantee you I would be able to not even hypothetical, I guarantee you I could carrot and stick you into changing your opinions about certain things, because first I'll change the way you talk about them.

When you talk about it away, I like, you'll get paid when you talk about it away that I don't like, money will be removed from the table. And over time, this is why people talk about this in the shape and everyone will acknowledge audience capture exists. Okay, Like you identified a mechanism, Well, you don't think anybody's going to pick it up and optimize it? How Please tell me how somebody is not going to take a mechanism that

we all know exists. Isn't like I could probably shape Tinpool's opinions on a lot of things without even Tinpool knowing it.

to say, social media and traditional media. But let's be honest, very few people really use traditional media anymore. I mean even the quote unquote boomers, I know, they don't really have TV. You know, some of them do. It's much more common than for people our age Stormy. But a lot of this is vectored through like big conservative Facebook accounts, you know, Like I mean, honestly, a lot of these people do have podcasts as well. It's just the like hyper produced.

you know that Iraq and Afghanistan did. Now, due to the kind of geopolitical consequences of where Iran is, that will be much harder to do. But it does already feel as if you know Iran is and part of that's due to this weird kind of cease fire question mark that we're in. But nonetheless, right, I do wonder as well if a lot of this is just a

desire to constantly move on to the new thing. And you know, much of the content you see people making fun of, oh you still care about Epstein, Oh you still care about the war in Iran, it's you know, a new America, baby. I mean, I think that that is reprehensible and wrong. But like from the perspective of I need something new to talk about, you know, you can pick up an audience by zigging when you know enough people zag and you know, by being that Wow,

that's so shocking, that's so daring. You can sort of accrue Internet clout to yourself while and you know, sort of get a head start on whatever the next thing is. And maybe that's maybe that's too simplistic of a model at social media are even aside from any kind of sinister desire to change people's opinions, but they are changing people's opinions.

is the most egalitarian sphere in politics. It is the left has a mechanism for establishing hierarchy, and whose opinion matters it Usually, you know, revolves around how many foreign objects you can cram in your ass, divided by the color of your skin, and the binary of whether or not you're fucking a deformed triple or whatever. But it exists. But on the right it does not, and this will

lead over time to exactly what you're talking about. Right, So, like, my opinion about let's say, capital markets is weighted the same with someone who is an assistant manager at an RB's. Arby's is great, by the way, but in any reasonable you know, the social system when it comes to capital markets, my opinion counts more than yours. It's informed by a tremendous amount of experience and a desire to transmit useful information to people. I don't really get anything out of it.

None of you guys have enough money for it to make a difference whether I talk my book or not. All of you guys jumping in my positions or whatever like, isn't going to make the position, isn't going to make

the stock go up. Is just not enough of us man and somebody like let's say, I mean, we can talk about this pretty much every topic, but basically the anonymous nature of our communication and the high disagreeability of the individuals that make up our sphere, and the very high I guess you could say autism, right, right, which is great, Like guys with autism, like white guys with autism,

built the modern world. Right. But if you put them all in a room, they will agree about ninety five percent of things, disagree about five percent, and because of their personality type, the ninety five percent that they agree on is gone, and one hundred percent of their cognitive focus is on the five percent that they disagree about. It's also why we suck at organizing, right. But so then how do we optimize? Well, we optimize on what's

more entertaining. If the army's managers take is funnier than mine, right, it is going to go further and farther then mine will. We have no way of examining things by their fruits. Everybody is the same, right, which makes this space, like I said, the most egalitarian space ever. Everyone's opinion matters. Everyone needs an individual snowplake. Literally every one gets a

gold trophy, everyone gets a say, which makes us extremely manipulatable. Right, This is going to sound insane, but I think it's a good thought experiment. None of us were on the bus that Irena Zurutska was stabbed in, none of us. What we saw was a ccv TV video of a young woman get murdered. So we saw something horrible, and how could you not talk about it really over anything else? And if somebody was nefarious in the future, I'm definitely

not saying this is the case with Areona. I want to make this perfectly clear, right, lest the listener get confused.

If someone saw our reaction to that and had, let's say, the ability to produce video with extremely high production value, let's say you're an organization like the Mega Group, Right, So not only does it include all of the people currently arrange themselves against that have rained themselves against one Thomas Massey, right, miss Adelson, mister Singer, and that other fagot I can't remember, right, Also in the Mega Group, right, they're called the Megagroup because the Israel Mega donors is

Steven Spielberg. Steven Spielberg can produce some shit. Right, So, at any moment in time, if you wanted to distract literally all of your online critics, right like your point, Jay, all somebody has to do is drop in a stimulus, and now everyone has to talk about this new thing.

And as long as you have you know, very deep pockets and a very deep magazine of current things, of new things to fire into the discourse, you can pretty much guarantee that everyone is going to be talking about everything except for the thing you don't want them talking about about. Epstein, case and point. You can basically ride

things out. I can give you stimulus after stimulus after stimulus, and then six months down the road, you've talked about two dozen topics right that have dialogue, that have dominated the discourse, and you have stopped talking about the thing I wanted you to stop talking about. And now so much time has passed to even bring it up as it's kind of cringe, it's not cool anymore. It's tremendous power. And on that is, we can't manage our emotional state.

We can fall victim to this repetitively well.

this lunatic does. Surely you're not one of those retards that believes X, Y or z. And then the whole thing, the whole truth or movement as it were, becomes sort of smirched by association. It's a tar baby, effectively, and there are there are many figures, I think who operate

like that. You know, the kind of extreme lunacy we see around you know, Epstein is a great example, you know, other kind of property, yeah, Charlie Kirk, where reasonable questions are swallowed up by the sort of most stupid takes imaginable. You know, the idea that the homosexual president of France himself shot Charlie Kirk and look like you know, it's a little bit funny, but all of a sudden, that

is what the conversation is. And again, if we're talking about the ability to control to control funding, right, either directly or indirectly right through kind of algorithm control, Like you can see that happening, and Stormy, you did an episode a while back about cognitive warfare and it's really stuck in my head and I kind of can't stop seeing it. You know, the idea that things can be crafted.

And it's funny because many social media platforms, including YouTube, have literally allowed producers to use this feature where you can ab test a different thumbnail, a different title right

to see which one does better. And if you imagine if I, you know, with a small YouTube channel, have access to that, what more does someone with a much bigger platform or someone looking to act nefariously And also the back end biometric data from the device you're looking at, you start to think, well, you could very quickly manufacture consensus. You can very quickly if you wanted to overload someone with stupid ideas is on a subject and get them

to drop it. Like you wouldn't even need to be particularly intelligent to figure that out.

they're going to get them to disagree. Like I know who Ed Gallerin is. I don't watch TV, I don't you know, listen to any of their you know, aligned media, but I still have to know. Like the one thing there to add by it was able to do is put this you know, automaton in front of my face, and I became aware of it. Right And unless you are aware of what you know Jay's talking about, that

alone is enough, right. And I'm sure some I know that some of your listeners, Jay are in you know, my my distant homeland of England, and this will hit particularly home to them if I know that a whole bunch of if I've made a whole bunch of really bad decisions, let's say, running your country, bad financial decisions that I know are going to hurt you in about six months, I need to get out in front of that quickly and I need to control how you examine

all these new stimuli that you're to get, like the things that you see in the news about you know, the market going down, or the stimuli you get when you try and pay for something and you receive the tab of how much it costs. These are stimuli. I need to control how you interpret, right, paradigm, So paradigm isn't just what you think about something. If people misunderstand how important paradigm is, and it's the most overused, least understood concept, I think that what an egg grigore is.

But I'm glad people shut the fuck up about that. Finally it seems to have died.

Oh I can't afford to buy a house. Oh well, I can't afford to go halfs with you on this, or we can't afford to go on vacation, you know, cause he lives. Guys, the regime handed you a filter before you know you needed one, right before you knew that you needed to think critically about something. Somebody framed

that for you and said, this is what's happening. And now what is deliberate theft and malice that's been done to you and your financial future, your children's financial future has been framed in a way that has been taken up by your entire soustet society as a force of nature. Nothing could be done about it. It's just this thing that exists. It's the cost of living crisis. And now since that framing has been internalized, now every bit of new information is going to be held up to it

and then dismissed accordingly. Oh look at this terrible thing. Oh yeah, well bro, like cost of living crisis? Like what are you talking about? Like we all know this. It's just like the rain. That's just the one that sticks in my head the most. But I can we can point to thousands, right, just in the last five years where we are given a framing of something right

before that thing happens. Right, the Charlie Kirk thing is especially interesting, right, Like everyone's like I have to I have to say, like, well, you know know, it's really foolish of me, Like I am. I had this argument with Andrew Isker Andrew, I love you. I love you. You're a great guy and you are my friend. But I had I had to I had I had to do you like Lenny and Myson of mice and men, and

I didn't want to want you to know that. But telling young men that the insinuation that Charlie Kirk was murdered by someone other than some stupid true, which I mean, following the case, there's a good chance the fucking troom gets off, which is kind of crazy. They can't eaven anyways, saying it is anything other than the fbon's official narrative is to both hurt the GOP and make the left win in the midterms and make young men disengage from politics. Well,

that's retarded. And I've heard this out of the mouth of dozens and dozens and dozens of the prominent light wingers right, And I don't think like I think. I don't think there's any malice behind what andrews saying. I don't think he's you know, on the like, it's benign.

What Andrew has just told me is the exact same thing as me going like an English guy going to another English guy going, hey, like we are about to like hit the fucking skids financially and dah da da da, and that person going, yeah, bro, cause he lives, Like what do you want to like disengage from politics about it? Like what can you do? I think that was a framing that was given to him because I don't have to. I'm not a judge, I'm not a jury, I'm not

a prosecutor. I am a political activists. I guess we one way to put it right, and my goal is total delegitimization of the regime right. And to me, whether somebody thinks it's the French fucking homosexual prime minister or president whatever is less effective to me. But I'll take it as what my actual enemy is, which is what

that narrative was from the very beginning. Right. The counter narrative was the Israeli state, and people don't understand what Israel is, and maybe we can clear that up now. What is Israel is Israel. The homeland for the Jewish people doesn't seem the shuttle. They all seem to want to live here instead. In fact, life is pretty good here. You could argue that no place on the entire planet has been better for them. They've never lived as high

on the hog as they live here. I've never been to Israel, but I've talked to a bunch of people that have Israel's a shithole. Why would you want to?

lives as don't question Charlie Kirk's you know, assassination. I think that was given to the Jewish people in America, right, because that's where the hustle is. So is it bend de Binnett Yahu and Israeli intelligence officials, you know, exerting control on my government. No, it's a bunch of people with American citizenship that live here, right. Lex Wexer's estate is like thirty six thousand square feet. I don't think that a single place exists in Israel that's as nice

anywhere in the entire state. Why the fuck would he want to go there when all the money and all the power and all of the young luxuries are here. So what is Israel? Why is this issue important? It's important because what Israel is to Jewish people is the same exact thing that all of these other paradigm tools are.

A way to focus and direct our conscious efforts. What Zionism was was a way to take a disparate group of diaspora people that can't agree on anything and find a thing that you can bind them together and their actions, right, roll them all up and swing them like a political cudgel to gain political control and there for financial control and legal controls and like law enforcement. Right, because you don't get rich by enforcing the law, you get rich

by not enforcing it in certain directions. Right. So political power is financial power wielding that cudgel on the West for the extraction of frankly the greatest prize. No one in the history of the world has amassed more wealth than Britain and the United States. That's what Zionism is. So the narrative of whether or not Israel has something to do with the killing of a prominent political leader should be the number one political question of our time

at this moment in anything that runs contract to their narrative. Sorry, I just got off on a really long tangent. Thanks you for being We need to get like a buzzer to stop me from doing that shit.

it feels as if it's sort of disconnected. You know, it's like those little shopping carts at the grocery store that are shaped like a spaceship, you know, with steering wheels on them, are connected to absolutely nothing.

what's lost in the big time? I believe it is a it's an Amish family out of Allentown, Pennsylvania. It is not That is a joke for the the you know, slightly autistic in the audience. But right, let's say a political ally of Miriam Adelson. Yes, let's say that you know Matthew's wet out of politics.

does this go to? But I think that there's a very interesting possibility that whoever picks is simply unable to connect to the base. Right, that they find Marco RULEO, they find another version of Ed Gallerin, and it's only someone who can connect with plus fifty five voters. It just kills the whole thing. And okay, that would be bad, right. I don't necessarily want Kamala Harris or Gavin Newsom to be in charge, but that's a sort of adapt or

die moment, and I don't know. I think that this is an interesting I want to say opportunity, but it is. It seems as if this unstable system has continued to become unstable, and the thumb on the scale in this race is incredibly, incredibly obvious. This is exactly what you don't need to be a genius to figure out what's going on. And I'm not going to pretend that most people know who Thomas Massey is or care about any

political primary at all. This is politics nerd stuff. But the lobby has been forced to be more and more direct over the last three years. The mask has slipped, and we're already in a position where we're seeing the vast majority of young people and by young, I mean under fifty five, absolutely despise the state of Israel. And okay, what happens if present trends continue?

that has been an accusation for a long time. You know, if you're been in the anti war movement, spoken to those people, you will have heard that before, but the New York Times is the paper of record, and to put it mildly, that's gross enough. You don't forget it, right, that's horrible enough that it isn't simply you know, a

bomb that went off. Course, I don't understand how, to be honest, the Zionist faction in American politics keeps going past a certain point, and you know, I may be wrong there, but it feels as if the politics of the twentieth century the previous instantiation is I mean, just.

but it is privilege. And I think even if the American state or American support for the nation state of Israel goes away, what they're really trying going to try and hang on to is the nation the supremacist nature of our government. That's what they really care about. None of them, if they all cared about Israel, they would all go live there. They really don't that much. They like Israel because of what it allows them to do in the United States. Right, if you ask any of them,

they are wherever they are. Israel, right, Israel is just unknew for a rapidly atheizing cohort. It's just the new religion. That's it. Hold on one second, I have to fling that call. Way to go, JP Morgan, Way to fuck that up for me? I want to I want to touch on something really quick. I think you hit something really valuable, because what does it look like if Thomas Massey loses more confirmation that they're that we can exert

no political control over all levels of our government. Because that's the big thing about Trump, Like Trump wasn't our last hope. It was their last hope. Right, you blow it with Trump. And I know this is how a lot of Americans feal like, all right, fine, we'll vote for this guy one more time. But it's not we're going to you know, we're going to try him one

more time. If you looked at them, at the rates of voter turnout before Donald Trump, like these people were fucking done voting and after everything they've seen, right, especially like the process supposedly working. We elected a guy to do all of these specific things, he does none of them after promising like all these things are just telling people we have control over the process of democracy. Right, They are telling you you can't vote your way out

of it. Not you. We see the meaning everywhere, like, oh, you can't vote your way out of this. No, it's not us saying that. Thomas Massey being defeated is them saying it. So then what And this is why all of the guys doing respectability politics afread to say certain things or you know, trying to weave a line. The public is further ahead than you. It's very like if your top of funnel and the public moves further to the right than you. Right, it's no longer effective, and

Tucker is perfect example of this. He has had to move to match people, right, Don't I think these are conclusions he's coming to organically through his conversations with regular people. But bro, I was checking out at the grocery store and the cashier, who is like fifty year old, you know, blonde lady probably maybe she's sixty years old obviously made some bad retirement planning, cracked a six million joke at

my receipt. An old lady at the grocery store cracked a six million joke to me a stranger, like, that's where we're at now, And I don't these people are not intelligent people. They run on an algorithm, right, Like is this good for Jews in the specific? And more broadly? Does this protect Jews in the specific? And more broadly they will only like those are their prime directives first, which works really really really good on the way up right.

It gives you a solidarity advantage that nobody else has, right, But it also doesn't have any breaks because a smart person would let Thomas Massein win. You need us to believe that we can vote our way out of it. You need it, right, because every vote that I cast is a tacit admission of my consent. Whether I win or not, I'm consenting to the system. So when people stop voting, the government loses all legitimacy. Then it can get real follow the Soviet Union real quick. And these

people don't really have a break mechanism. So I get really annoyed at people trying to look at our political system as it is now and how to orient themselves. You're not going to be a staffer. You're not going to get elected congressman one day. At the rate we're going, nobody's going to give a shit about Congress. It's going to mean nothing. It will mean as much as blockbuster video. People will just move past it. People will just turn their backs on it. That goes to the state. WAW,

that goes at the state level too. Right, government only works if people don't turn their back on it. Delegitimization is non violent political revolution. Right, what did the Soviet How did the Soviet Union collapse? Collapsed in three days, the thing that every intelligence agency in the country said was going to last another fifty to seventy five years, and it trying to enforce itself. And this isn't this is a nation. This is a nation that used force

on its population liberally, right, even in the eighties. It had no problem with putting a bullet in the back of your head for you making a fuss. Right, So unlike our society, unlike our government, which has a real low mandate for using force in the population, almost none because they haven't because they've been so sparing with its application.

be around forever was gone. As soon as people turn their back on these institutions, they don't mean anything anymore. So if they keep taking your away your ways to participate, right, you want that process to speed up, not slow down. I like to hear what your thoughts are on that, because I mean, we're we see so many guys try and basically orient themselves on how things are now and not where things are going.

get that. But then there's the kind of multiple iterations of the game, which is like do I want to support bad behavior? Do I want to provide you know, positive reinforcement for bad behavior? It's like, okay, well, if that's the position you're in, like you're just a slave effectively, here's the battery. You're not really doing anything or extracting

anything out of the system. And I think as well, I've been really encouraged by the rise of Restore Britain Right Party out of the UK because there is an opening for that, right there is. There has been a desire for those sort of policies for a very long time unmet. And look, I understand UK politics and American

politics works differently, the systems are balanced differently. Okay, one hundred percent, right, But to me that's really interesting because all of a sudden, it's like, Okay, there's something worth worthy of your right, your offensive energy, not simply they like I got to do something or else I'm gonna get really screwed this time of Like no, no, you can actually like do something on the political level.

think that very clearly. The op that you and I were were kind of predicting that sort of woke, right. I don't think that's worked at all. Nope, I don't think that that that rhetoric carries. I mean I think that especially.

spite for coming up with that stupid name. It was too nice to the Britge yesterday. So but it's that they there, it's because they started the language. It's very formal, so I think they have a compulsion to scilify everything, make everything silly. Yeah, it's it's highly inappropriate. But Stormy, we're we're past time. It's been an interesting episode, obviously, people can find you on Twitter. They can find you on substack, where you put out the Inquisition, unless you

doubt that that Stormy just abuses me constantly. Before we went live, he said, hey, can you edit a podcast? I'm like cash share. I'll edit a podcast for you if he has four hours. So yeah, you know those Inquisition episodes you listen to, I edit them. You're welcome. You can check them out all Stormy substack.