Trouble in the Windy City w/ Thomas777: The J. Burden Show Ep. 442

the I mean, it's a horrible case. But as I'll get into, the investigators as well as the State's Attorney's office as well as the SBI was convinced that there were far more victims and there was grave concern that this was a Son of Sam type situation. And the Ripper Crew is connected to a network occult network. Okay, So again that's it's important to push back against the what's become the prevailing narrative. And also there was there was an interesting precedent set by this case and these

cases the trials. You know, Andy good Coriels as the last man executed in Illinois, which is significant. They there was murders in both Cook and DuPage County, and DuPage County is a solidly read county. They're super Republican, super pro Trump, and back then they were the bane of the of the of the Chicago machine down in Springfield. So that's interesting too because the death sentences that came

down of this case came down from DuPage. Okay, I'm not I'm not wearing gloves to be like weird or something. My handsle was swollen and it looks gross. I don't be able think I'm trying to be spooky. Something, but uh, because it may, you know. And as we got into it before, I think we ended where Tommy could Coreelis was implicated and then and then confessed, and one of the lead investigators, name of John sam he couldn't believe what he was hearing. He attested the fact, you know,

in his words quote, could this stuff really happen? I didn't even know what to say to this guy. And finally he put to Tommy, why, why why did you do these things? And Tommy reiterated, almost for me as his brother said, he said, you don't understand. Robin get just makes you do things. And the detective said, what what do you mean it makes you do things? What does he do? Does he threatened to does he threaten to fuck you up? Does he threaten to kill you?

And Tommy he shook his head and said no, he said, you don't. He said, he just looks into your eyes and he tells you to do something, and you just have to do it. Tommy was one hundred percent of advanced that Gagt had some sort of demonic power over him, you know, and however ridiculous anybody thinks that is, or you know, you can chalk it up to coreol is

being a simpleton. But as we'll get into this is this pattern emerges again and again with get convincing or persuading people to do things that they would not ordinarily do, and not just simpletons like Spritzer and arguably Tommy Coo coriel Is, but you know, very very very normal middle class people as well, who aren't engaged in deviant behavior

street shit. In any way, Tommy substantiated what his brother attested to, and to be clear, Andy's testimony or i mean Andy's confessions, what he relating Costody became fundamentally important to the cases in chief that substantiated the body of the indictments because Eddie Spritzer was a moron, and he was he was changing his narrative every day, and there was no rhyme or reason to it. And he states attorney, the assistant state's attorney who got the case, a guy

named Buke. Buke asked what about the severed body parts, the severed breasts and vist erun things, And apparently this is the only line of question that really upset Tommy and this and the state. As Toney said, look, you've already you're already getting charged with murder. You might as well give us the details and not played games. And he acknowledged and validated that these satanic ceremonies took place in the egg, you know, just as his brother had.

And Tommy actually assigned dates to some of these occurrences. He said he participated directly in nine or ten of them between May nineteen eighty one and May nineteen eighty two. And he also confessed the murder of Lorraine Bowski and Linda Sutton. And both of these were important because Barowski, he was that poor woman who was grabbing broad daylight and gang raped and murdered and mutilated at the hotel and then dumped in the cemetery. And we were so

far out and horrible what Andy attested to do. It would have been difficult to substantiate that if there wasn't a corroborating statement and Lorraine's remains where she was a skeleton by the time they found her, so it's not as if they could piece together from piece together forensically whether this confession could be substantiated. I think it's a

Linda Sutton. She was the first victim found behind the moonlit motel in Villa Park, so that obviously tied the case together and created a linear investigative chain that the trier of fact could follow. And that's that's important. This bestially in a case that's so massive and severe. Now this gets really strange, But I was just mentioning a minute ago about get and as apparent power to manipulate people. Well, when Ghek was arrested, the Chicago cop named Ron Sebliski.

I assume this is an alias that's used by the people who related this anecdote because it was the source that I'm referring to. We're all penned by state actors. Okay, But Ron Sibliski was a Chicago PD officer and on May sixth, nineteen eighty two, he responded to a call of a man with a gun. There's this restaurant, this kind of Chicago's got a lot of twenty four diners to this day. There's this old restaurant as long as since clothes called the Grand Austin Grill. It was this

all night diner. Okay, So sublisky, he's a beat cop in Chicago with twenty years on the job. He pulls up in front of the restaurant, answer the call, and he finds out that what happened was there was this young lady and some drunks staggered in there and started hassling her and then started fish roughing her up. And this other patron pulled out a gun, drew a beat on this man and said leave her alone, and then forced the guy out of the restaurant and then he

halted his weapon and sat back down. Well, that man was Robin Get, Okay. So Sublisky's this was before long before there was any kind of CCW in Chicago. Okay. So Sublisky and his partner was like, hey, this guy did a good deed, but hey, sorry, you know you're gonna catch charges for this. And Get's like, nah, I understand. So Get does Oblisky and these costs became buddies, okay, and they started they developed this rapport and his Siblisky's

booking Get on the firearms charge. He's mentioning about how he's got this house that he's, you know, wanted to invest in as a fixer. Uppers become this money pitch and Gets like, oh, hey, you'm a master carpenter an electrician, you know, why don't let me take a look at it. So sure enough, Get Start shows up with his crew Eddie Spritzer and some other guys, and he does this like incredible job on this CoP's house. And Soblisky said, this guy was the most skilled carpenter I've ever seen.

And Sublisky's kids started like hanging out with Ghek's kids and playing together. You know, Get's kids would sleep over at his house. Gets was proactively living at this dude's house, this cop for like a year, and then you know, this cop realized something was off. You know, he didn't know what, but he said, why why am I letting this guy basically live in my house? You know? Why am I like buying his kids groceries? You know, like, why why why am I letting his kids stay at

my house half the week? So so Blisky apparently gradually put an end to it, you know, and and the work that Deek was doing in the house and was coming to it in anyway. But after Gek was arrested for multiple homicide and kidnapping and mulicious wounding and all this horrible stuff, Soblisky shows up at Area five and goes nuts and he's like, he's innocent. This man's a friend of mine. How dare you accuse him of these horrible crimes? And this always came to blows between him

and these detectives who are as superiors. Okay, Like that's that's crazy, you know, Like what this dude was putting his career in jeopardy to go to bat for Robin Ghekt, Like that's Gaysey. Like okay, because Gaysey not only would gaze schmooze the police and stuff, but Gaysey was a really skilled contractor and he'd do work for people and they'd be really happy and you know, but that doesn't

explain the entire scenario. You know, Gek had some sort of ability to manipulate people profoundly, and not in terms of traditional charisma. I mean, Ghek wasn't he wasn't particularly handsome or you know, alpha or anything. But there was there's something very strange going on here, you know, and especially you know, cops are very clannish. Number one, they basically went hear around with other police. That's what jumped

out of me. And Okay, I get it that these police on the scene at a Grand and at the Grand Avenue diner, they look at Ghek. It's kind of a hero in the situation. But it's like, I can't imagine it's a normal protocol that started hanging out socially with people you collor that that seems highly improper, regardless of the underlying circumstances. But and that that gave every that gave the detectives pause, you know, And I'll I'll expand on that in a bit. But the uh one

a second, you know, and it's uh apparently two. In addition to this mistress of Gets who boughted him out when he was first arrested, get To introduced Seblisky to this bizarre kind of butch lesbian who is also in the building trades, and she apparently gave get To money and would take him around to uh her gay friends to show him off, like like he was her boy toy or something. And get told brag to Oblisky that he was pimping women and that this lesbian who we

called Miss Ross, that Miss Ross. He's like, you know, even if things go bad with my wife, you know, miss Ross is loaded, and she'll she'll she'll give me buying me anything I need. I don't even need the baller. I mean, like this is insane and this guy's telling this too is a cop. He's basically living in his house and uh, you know this this doesn't I mean, I guess eventually this cops spidy senses got triggered, but that the whole thing seems incredibly perverse and abnormal.

Sandra Dollar, wasn't done there. That's the victim that Andy kok Corialis claimed that she was murdered there, and the the the physical evidence suggested that because there was liquid blood that had pooled, she'd been found probably not even an hour after she'd been murdered, but this would have been had been stabbed all over her body. They were able to ideal because there was a bond slip in

her jacket pocket. She'd just been bonded out of Cook County for prostitution, and she was a hooker whose official residence with North Lincoln Avenue, and that was one of the Ripper Crew's hunting grounds. So the police became convinced that there was more. There were more the rippers out there, you know, and obviously get doesn't saying anything. The Corialis brothers and even even simple to nighty sprites are they're

realizing they're looking at the death penalty, you know. And by this time there they got representation, you know, and their public defenders are telling him stop stop talking. Your life is on the line. So this never was truly resolved.

As for the murder of Schuey Mack. Eddie Spreutzer was also indicted for attempted murder, aggravated battery, and armed a violence for the only two known male victims the Ripper Crew. There were those two gang bangers who got blasted around Wrigleyville, Raphael Toronto and Albert Wizzario. One of the guys died. One of the guys lived with catastrophic brain injury, you know, And that was I believe the speculation, you know, Get was a was a firearms of ficionados who was always strapped.

I believe he blasted those guys thinking that the police would chalk it up to street ship, which they did because both these guys you know, wrote as as Latin kings, and I think he was testing sprister to see if he you know, see what he'd do if he had it in him the you know, be a murder rampy. But in any event, Get himself wasn't convicted of murder because they really all they had to put him at

the scene of these murders was odd circumstantial evidence. The the main case in chief, the case even against him was mainly substantiated by his victim who survived, okay, And the problem is the rest of the Ripper crew who implicated him. You know, you have a right to confront your accuser if they refuse to testify, you know that

evidence can't be introduced. You know. So what they did have Get on the hook for was attempted murder, already kidnapping, deviate sexual assault and rape for what he did do what he did to that victim who survived Beverly, Washington. The crux against defense was that brutal as this attack may have been, it didn't rise to the level of intendant required to substancy to conviction for attempted murder. And before the trial Gets lawyers demanded a sanity hearing, which

is you're right. And this was before it was impossible to prevail on an insanity defense, which for all practical purposes postinkly it is. So this wasn't just a fool's errand Get was examined by the director of Cook County Psychiatric Institute and Uh in a letter to the court, doctor Reefman, who was the man in question. It was very brief, he he said to the judge presenting judges

Francis Mahone. He said to Judge Mahone, the defendant understands the nature of the charges against him, and it was thus legally seen at the time of the offense that's really all that that that really is all insanity the jury is concerned with categorically, you know, can the defendant understand the nature of the charges against him? And could he I mean, and could he understand the wrongfulness of

it is of his conduct? I mean, the understanding the nature of the charges of the predict did for competence see to stand trial? You know, being able to formulate intent based upon an understanding of moral wrongfulness obviously cuts of something who liability. But it was clear, Uh, I mean that that that's you gotta if if it even though Gek goes on the hook for murder, it Uh, obviously in a case that's severe, you're gonna you're gonna

file the emotion you can gets. Trial was a was a fiasco due to no fault of the judge or the state's attorneys. Everything that could go wrong did go wrong. When a deepts lawyers noticed that one of the jurors she was carrying a newspaper with the headline woman relates quote ripper attack and the article went on to suggest that Gek absolutely was the leader of the Ripper crew. And then it had this whole squib about Get's miserable childhood and his his alleged sexual dv and see you know,

and Get's lawyers obviously immediately a maned a mistrial. Mahone has specifically instructed the jurors to avoid all news media, uh, you know, television or print. You know. The fact that this woman had this was carrying this paper little under her arm. I mean, I presume she was passing this around in the jury room. You know what of.

could she positively id get? You know? And furthermore, Uh, there the injury sustained, even if for the sake of argument, counterfactually, Get was was the man who attacked her. They they didn't rise the level of attempted murder. Get's wife testified her husband was home all night at the time of the attack, which was this woman was not remotely credible, and she came off as bizarre. She wore all black and had her hair dyed black and looked like some

TM version of Elvira or something. If he look at photographs of her, he gets, mother, Uh seemed just kind of like a sad old lady. And you know she her testimony constituted character evedence and all but name. You know, she she just came off as kind of pathetic and saying, you know, my You know, Robin is a good boy, and he's so weak and easily frightened. He you know, his brother has always had to do his fighting for him. He was scared of his own shadow.

convicted of all accounts. Mahone sentenced Get to sixty years for rape and deviates, sexual assault, and armed violence, and then he had an additional sixty years for attempted murder. And you know, the this woman was maimed horribly and dumped in and Ali and she would have she would have bled out within minutes if she hadn't been discovered almost immediately by a sanitation worker. So I mean that, you know, get Get was done and it was obvious.

Uh Mahone was Judge Mahone made it clear and the statements he made it sentencing that he you know, he believed Ghek was a multiple murderer. You know, he made no bones about clarifying that sprites her on the Chicago murders. Pled guilty to four homicides and attempt and one attempted murder. He was sentenced to life plus one hundred and twenty years for the rape and murder of Rosebeck Davis, who was the victim who was grabbed off a rushed street.

He caught thirty years to the rape and murder of Sadra Delaware, life plus one hundred and eighty years for the kidnapping and murder of Shoey Mack, thirty years the attempted murder of Albert Rosario, life sentence for the murder of Raphael Toronto. But he still had to fight charges in Gepage County for the murder of Linda Sutton. He went on Treal there in nineteen eighty six and he was sent to death. And really his lawyer said nothing.

Defense council simply tried to portray him as incompetent, you know, and incapable of rendering independent decisions or at with any independent agency. You know, by this point too, it was a done deal. I mean, this was this was several years after the after the murders and uh the facts and circumstances, It's circulated far and wide. People were disgusted, people were outraged that they were horrified. There's echoes of gacy,

but Someonay's even worse because this was for defendants. The state also emphasized in the page the unfaimable depravity of these events, and the states attorneys suggested in closing argument, Look, this is becoming an epidemic of people committing these kinds of crimes based upon bizarre cultic motivations and essentially the

said of the jury. Not only does the blood of these victims, possibly dozens of them, cry out for vengeance, but we've got to send a message that the men who do these kinds of things are in the service of strange gods, are going to go to the death chamber, you know. And Spriteser remain on death row until two thousand and three, when his sentence was commuted along with every other condemned. They may nill annoy by George H. Ryan knowing to the Birds scandal and a lot of

other shit. Birds was this homicide detective with a lot of clout who uh head over decades tortured suspects into confession. And this was a disaster because obviously that compromised verdicts across the board, and it led to a justice not being realized in the case of many condemned who absolutely were guilty as a matter of fact, as a matter of law. Let's sprite, sir. On February fifth, nineteen eighty five, Andy Could Corialis went to trial for the murder of

Rosebeck Davis, Andy Could Coriolis attorney. He claimed that the confession was coerced, so we don't even need the rebut the material facts being alleged because Driscoll essentially alleged that when Ghek Stonewall the police and sprites are proved to be a totally unreliable head case, the police simply swept up Andy Courialis and and worked him over until he gave them something, you know, and that in reality, he

played no part at all in the crime. He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, and he happened to be acquainted with Robin Ghekt. And when you consider the I mean Courialis's confession was catastrophic for his own defense because not only not only did he cop to eighteen murders. He said there was probably a lot more. He gave a timeline, he substantiated dates, discrete acts, locations where the victims were seized, where they were dumped. I mean he was he was finished. He and he

caught a life sentence to murder Rose big Davis. But two years later DuPage County got him for the murder of Lorraine Barowski. And it was the same state's attorney, Brian Talander, who prosecuted Spritzer and co core Als, was convicted a murder and he was sentenced to death and Andy Andy Kakrielis was executed March seventeenth, nineteen ninety nine. He was the last man executed in the state of Illinois. And that was that was very deliberate, and the jury

was traumatized. During the penalty phase, Tolander spared no details on what had happened, what had happened to these women, and specifically the details of Lorraine Barowski's murder, which had come from the lip, the details of which had got him the lips of any could Coriolis. And I don't get me wrong, I was entirely proper, you know, but it's it was abjectly horrifying. And uh, I think du Page would have I think he would have gone to

the death chamber anyway. But the fact that that was the charge he was having to fight, you know, he he was done. He was a dead man walking. As I stated, I think last episode Andy could Coriolis, his spiritual advisor, maintained that he'd returned to his Orthodox faith. He was repent. Andy's last words were, quote to the Barowski family, I'm truly sorry for your loss. I mean that sincerely, and then he said repent ye for the Kingdom of Heaven is in hand. And uh, you know

he was. He was executed by lethal injection. And there was a lasting trauma to this case. I don't I know that's that's that's become a stupid word. And I'm sure especially younger people are tidy hearing it. Everything's supposally a trauma. But one of the detectives Bureau guys I years later, sometime in the nineties, he uh, this was his testimony and hind said on the case, he said, quote, no other case ever disturbed me like this one.

never will. I quit homicide because of this case, you know, And after much as this was locally sort of a of an obsession, people wanted to forget it after it was done because it was so horrible. But the police always maintained and I'm the last person who finds the police intrinsically credible. But Chicago PD always maintained that there was probably more of these guys affiliated with the Ripper Crew itself. And you know, Robiney, get him just one day,

think up these bizarre practices. He was probably initiated into this. He probably like the like like David Burke Away, it's got drawn into some sort of satanic subculture and like gaycy because he got away with these things again and again, and because he was a practicing occultist. He he he probably believed he wasn't going to be knighted. He probably thought I have some kind of supernatural power. Look, I can't even manipulate this cop. I'm practically living in his house.

I've got I've got pimping out these women who are bailing me out of prison. I got this. I got this butcher lesbian who's who's just paying my bills as long as I, you know, take along to her, you know, or or or parties or whatever, you know.

Scientology wasn't a religion. That was his way of avoiding heat from the irs and and the AMA, as well as a way to sell the suckers a package that would separate them their money. But he's like such that. My father's religious. He was very much an occult believer, and he thought that, you know, he he thought he would never face consequences, and that you know, he had absolute confidence in the con because he he was more than just a con man. He believed he had some

sort of Satanic power over people. You know. And the degree to which of you believe in something with absolute confidence, you can believe other you can convince others of those things. That that's really what the nature is of a perfect liar, because even people who are just sociopathic and know they're lying, they've always got tells or they always slip up, or it's always somehow affected if you believe in what you are saying. There's something about human beings. They're they're hardwired.

We're in the absence of triggers suggesting dishonesty. They they they take on the beliefs uh in the in the veracity of what's being told to them by declarance I believe, and that that becomes a positive feedback mechanism. And if you're that that then in turn reinforces the delusion. But It's also something at emphasize too, because I'm sure to people this idea of this, that this weird little guy, this weird, shitty little guy with an alternate addic doing

horrible things to body parts. It's like, well, who would be taken in by that? What was the spectacle of that beyond the fact that it's revolting. It's like, look before, when the only stimulus outside of real space was television or the movies, people's responses were totally different, whether you're talking about how they respond to violence or sex or

anything else. Like even people used to think, even even in my lifetime, like when I was a kid, people love stuff like Penthouse Magazine was unbelievably racy when really was just naked girls, you know, I mean, like think about that, and uh, they'd look at something like they look at a Mando movie, you know, like shocking age or Faces of Death, which even the real footage they're

in was pretty tame stuff. But that was considered to be, you know, really really outside the scope of what was decent or humans should be seeing, you know, for the purpose of titillation or whatever. So a lot of what people devised in terms of their own fantasies or in terms of their own stimulus, emerged from within their own imaginings and was informed by what other people suggested that you know, they fantasized about or were interested in voyeuristically

or in terms of stimulus and things. So if you had the ability to manipulate others anyway, you didn't really have to move mountains to impress upon them with an immersive experience, especially if there was real violence and depravity behind it, if you follow what I mean. So that's some Yeah, I mean, you've always got to keep zeitgeist in mind, and you've always got to keep the epoch in which events occur in mind when you're addressing the impact on an observer or a participant or a an

actor to the proceedings under discussion or scrutiny. But that's that's particularly significant in the era we're talking about what the subject matter we're taught excuse me, we're talking about if you follow my line of thought.

human can can point this out. I mean you look at conversations even something around like like Nixium, right that that weird sex cult connected to the Weasner family. Uh, it was just just you know, a normal thing for a uh, you know, a rich person to be up to the point is right, like that is a way to to basically reshape the human psyche. And so you you have this figure who is by all measures incredibly charismatic, has the ability to bend people to his will just

due to force of personality. You know, he can can meet a Chicago detective and basically move into his house. And you combine that with the you know, the forces you're mentioning, especially in a time which, as you said, access to sex and violence was limited. You know, it was not as ubiquitous as it is now. Well, yeah, you can get people to do crazy things. And again I think that when we're talking about ritual When we're talking about you know, ritual murder, there's not like just

one simple explanation for what's going on. It's like, well, is he crazy? It's like, get well, no, shit, he's crazy. This isn't a normal thing to do. Is there a like a spiritual religious component?

was in Navy Naval Special Warfare. He was going through seal training and one of his buddies they were out getting you know, getting shithous, and uh, the one guy picked up some girl and they were sitting in the car just kind of talk fucking, and his buddy's in the back seat turns out his buddy, who was this crazy kill freak, and he strangled the girl. And this guy's looking at this like, oh my god, what the fuck.

So he got jammed up in a theory of accountability, you know, basically a variation to oversimplify a fellony murder. But people were like, what any decent man would running the police. It's like, man, if I were that guy, I wouldn't know what the fuck to do. What am I gonna do? Running the police stays and be like, oh, my friend killed this girl. I didn't my friend did. I've got a dead girl in my car, but I didn't do anything. My friend's not gonna be traumatized if

you witnessed that. Secondly, it's like, how do you explain that. You can't explain that you're just gonna panic, you know, or if you're if the reason why, you know, in a case like the Ripper Crew, I mean got down. He sought these guys out because he I believe he detected Dvan tendancies in them, and he knew after a while they they get drawn into it and spontaneously derived

satisfaction from it. But even that aside, even if you're an upstanding guy, and a decent person does want to hurt anybody, you know, Like I said, the fact pattern that got this poor guy I just mentioned, you know, down for thirty years. There's nothing you can do about that, and there's no way to explain it. You know. I'd like to think that I throw myself in the mercy of the court and try and make my case because

that's what happened. And I don't lie about stuff. But I don't know, man, I'd like to think I do that, but I probably like not see shit and hope that this never came up again and pray that God would understand. You know. It's like, it's real. It's easier for people to pass judgment on others when they're not in front

of those circumstances. I mean, don't get me wrong, man, I've known a lot of disreputable people in my life, and I'm associated with guys and girls I should not yet, but I I owe my spidy senses always kind of went nuts when I detected something seriously criminal is about

to happen, and I bounce, you know. But I think I'm kind of a naturally I'm kind of a naturally skittish person, you know, the means I got a spiritual bond with casts, and I tell you to be nice to the burden cat because I understand like what they go through. I'm kind of perpetually nervous man, you know, and it's like staved my wife, but because with me. I don't mean to be abrupt on this, but I'm I'm trying to record the much I can before I

leave tomorrow. And uh, I got a record from my phaser in a minute, so I'm gonna I'm gonna raise up and uh take a smoke break before I get into that at my friend.

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