The Chicago Ripper Crew w/ Thomas777: The J. Burden Show Ep. 436

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naming any names. There's people who insist that not only is there no such thing as a cult crime, but there's no such thing as ritual cult activity involving multiple offenders. Well, this is a splendid rebuttal to that little assertion, and it also exemplifies how violent things were. And that's one of the reasons why outside Chicago this didn't really get play.

And even in Chicago, this happened at the same These murders were happening at the same time as the Tail and Old poisoning, which was a national story, and that caused genuine panic here on the ground in Shoe Town. And then when these sick animals went on trial it was the able Archer era. People were terrified of how that was going to shake out, you know, with Cold War tensions reaching critical mass and scene since ninety's seventy

three and adding to the bizarre lore. I've heard conflicting reports on this, but a deep dived into this and apparently it's true according to WLS, which was the primary investigative of a legacy media brand here on the ground. Robin get who was the leader of the Ripper Crew when he was a teenager, he apparently worked for John Wayne Gacy and Get was he was married to a woman, but he was he was bisexual and he hung around with gay people.

he's like this a feminine guy. So this idea that he could intimidate these you know, and the Corealis brothers who were sort of the muscle of the Ripper Crew. There were these They were these Greek tough guys from the northwest side. The idea Get could intimidate people into doing things by his physicality is ridiculous. You know, He's the kind of guy that the co Corielis brothers could have broken half. You know. The way he could dominate

people suggest something really sinister and bizarre. I'm not saying anything super natural, but there's something there. But he yeah, I but I mean the people these days when true crime fanatics come across some of these content creators, especially younger people. This isn't some slam on young people, but they think it's this insane cosmic coincidence that get apparently

across pads with gay Zy. It's not though it test them into the fact that this this kind of thing was common, which is horrifying.

I think that can't be denied. But serious people anymore. But basically, the way the Ripper Crew came of the attention of law enforcement, this woman's body was discovered in Villa Park. Villa Park is a West suburb and especially in those is there was a strip of notel motels where you could cop dope, where you know, you could take prostitutes, but there was a lot of just grimy

kind of vice activity. Bensonville is kind of like that today by the airport, so not serious crying, but a lot of advice, a lot of drugs and dope stuff they caught. The strip was called by street people's the Gods a strip. But this woman's body was found behind one of these motels. It's still it was then it was called the moon Lit Motel. It's it's been branded something different now. But at first glance it appeared as if this woman had been dead for some time because

the body was heavily decomposed. She was a prostitute named wind Of Sutton from the West Side, which was odd that she'd end up that far. Villa Park's not super far from the West Side proper, but it's not a place of prostitute which just traveled as service in John you know. And her name was Linda Sutton. She still had her cash in her socks, so she hadn't been robbed. The coroner, owing to very diligent examination and a strong base of knowledge, he realized this woman hadn't been dead

for a long time. She'd only been dead for two or three days. What had happened to her? And then again this is very grotesque. Her breast had been totally severed, and owing to that, insects and various microbes and parasites were able to invade the corpse and deteriorate the remains rapidly, so at first the police and again in Villa Park. They probably get one or two homicides a year even back then, and it was in the form of bar fights or some sort of domestic dispute that turns into

a murder. These kinds of random homicides didn't really happen, certainly not dead hookers, where you know, body parts are removed as a trophy, fetish object, and that's kind of This was kind of forgotten about until several months later in the fall of nineteen eighty two. October, a woman named Denise Gardner, she got snatched up by a guy in a red van and she was she survived the attack.

And what she relayed was a red van had approached her on West North Avenue, which was her regular stroll, and she said, a little white guy who was at the wheel, you know, and he he solicited the act he wanted and she gave him the price. He paid her. He said, get in. She got into the van. It was a carpenter's van and it had a partition and she had the wherewithal to remember odd details about it.

There's been a roach clip hanging from two blue feathers from the rear view, and this becomes significant how the van was identified. He said something of the effect of, you know, fex yourself a drank, or why don't you get in the back and get comfortable, and I'll be there in a minute. When I park. She went in the back, the guy pulled a gun, started pistel whipping her. Then he forth pills down her throat and she passed out. You know, she was fading out. He continued to piss

the whipper. She woke up in an alleyway, only a few bucks from the stroll and uh, she'd been savagely assaulted and one of her breasts was removed. Okay, somebody found her before she bled out. It was a streets and Sanitation guy who called it in and she identified uh to the police from her hospital bed. You know, the man who's ultimately identified as Robin Get Okay, and uh, she said it was a seventy six or seventy seven or seventy eight van. Hookers get to know cars real well.

He s they did in those days because they're constant getting in and out of them, and if something seems suss or scary to him, they like hit other females on that hustle. Hey watch out for like the seventy nine you know corvetor or whatever, which is an interesting factoid. But that's how she was able to make the man. You know, she described get physically. You know, she described

the roach clip, all of that. So a few weeks later, on October twentieth, why'd you between these two murders or between this one assault and this murder and bill apart like no connect himp in media. But these two Chicago police they were on Lake Short Drive and they come across as a red van and I think it was the There were past and the red van got off the drive. They followed it to Central Avenue, and uh, they realized it was an apb out for a red or dark orange van with a partition and with the

you know, a roche clib with blue feathers. So they pull up next to it, they see the feathers. They pull a van over, pull a driver out, and there's a guy there driving and who doesn't fit the description at all that Denise Gardner gave. It was some guy who they was, you know, probably his late teens, with goofy, wild red hair, and h is idea indicated his name was Eddie Sprecher. And when the police says, this is your van, he said, no, it's my boss. It's van.

So these two police say, well, who's your boss. He says, oh, my boss is Robin get So. The police say, well, you know, you know you're gonna take us to Robin get So he takes him to this house on a north winder, the three thousand a north winder and uh, when they get there, they have Eddie knock on the door. Get comes out. He fits the description to a t that Denise Gardener he gave him. The cops say, you know your your van was or a van fitting this

description was implicated in a very serious crime. I Get apparently was tobably lack a daizagle about it. He comes to the police station and uh, the police's first impression was this guy's probably just a freak who likes to hurd hookers. And it just got a little bit out of hand with the niece Gardner. But as they talked of Spritzer, it became clear that Spreeiser was terrified and Obviously that didn't seem normal, and it's why why would you be terrified of this little feminine guy if you

even accuse your boss or whatever. As time went on, Spritzer said that he wanted to confess, and the police said, confess to what You're not suspected of anything, And Spiders said, well, we killed a girl, and we killed a black girl and dunked her, and uh, Villa Park, we killed an Asian girl out in the West Suburbs too. We killed some rich lady that we grabbed off Rush Street. He confessed to almost twenty homicides. You and the police are

just aghast. So they start looking for a you know, trying to match this these these claims to see if they're a loser you're not, and see if there's any fact patterns in Chicago and Greater Chicago and that matched these claims, and of course, what you know, this this Villa Park murder comes up immediately with the dismembered breast, and uh, they realize they they they have, they have they probably have two serial killers on their hands. But then it gets even more bizarre because this is Area

five homicide. There used to be six police areas now there's only five and uh, they've been reconfigured a bit, but there's not there's not a homicide division of Chicago PD. There's a duro of detectives. They're basically the major crimes unit, and they get homicides. And area five is northwest and uh, that's that's not that's not a hood area. But it's a prestige posting. And especially in those days, you get

a pretty high caliber of guys on that detail. Okay, but even they it was unfathomble of them that that there'd be more than two guys doing this together. But so they just said, but still the police have this idea. Let's take Eddie sprites Or and put in the room. Put him in the room with Robin ghet and let's see how Let's let's see if they go at each other.

Let's see if they try and blame each other. Let's see what Ghekt if he if he starts confessing after we say that Spritzers made him for you know, eighteen murders or whatever, so he claims. So they take Spritzer in there and they said Ghek just looked at him calmly, and they said Spritzer started visibly shaking, and one of the detectives says, you know, tell tell your pell Robin,

what what you just told us? And Spritzer says, rob and I told them about all the girls, and Get just said, I have no idea what you're talking about. You know, no anger, no visible. He wasn't visible. We shook, nothing like that. So then when they takes Spritzer back to his his own interrogation room, Spritzer says, you know what, you know what I lied? I lied? Robin wasn't there. I did these homicides with with Andy kak Coriolis, as

the police say, like, who the fuck is Andy kok Corialis. Well, as it turns out, Andy kok Corialis was another employee of Robin Gets, although when they asked him at first, Gex said he was just this kid that he knew who used to be as a neighbor. Coo. Coriolis was a villa park guy, which uh accounts for the connection of the moonlit motel. I mean, Robin Get was familiar with the West suburbs too, but that was the core ell his brother's stomping ground. Their dad was a Greek immigrant.

The mother died years ago. I think Andy kok Corialis was nineteen at the time. He had a brother, Tommy, who later became implicated. So now Spreutzer, and to be clear to you, Spreutzer was probably half retarded. He probably was one of these people we probably had like a

seventy IQ or something. Okay, And so he starts rambling trying to you know, see, he starts telling all kinds of different stories, all of which now seemed to remove Get from the narrative out of apparent fear of Get, which the detectives again didn't understand because Gekt was this sort of effeminatee little weasel. But they go see Andy kok Corialis at his father's house. They identify themselves, you know,

as police. This is Chicago p he Villa Park wanted a piece of him two but obviously Chicagwood priority because they had a far larger file and they have the allegations are far more numerous. He was only good for the one homicide potentially in Nolla Park. But the Corey Elis They get him in an interrogation room and uh he uh he comes cleaning uh essentially immediately, you know, they say, you know, you have any idea why you're here, And he's like, yeah, uh, it's thing to say, Okay,

why why do you think you're here? You know? And he said, uh, I've been I've been murdering women with you know, Robin and Spritzer for months, and I dream about every night and I know I'm going to go to hell. Corielis also made Gek for blowing away to random guys and Rigivo, who apparently he had no connection

due but Gek always went around strapped. He had a rifle like I think it was a Mini fourteen or something kind of some kind of clinking rifle, and a h and a handgun of some sort with him and uh, Coriolis And this is apparently true because this you know, this, this this murder had been assumed it would be a some sort of gangster related ship, but it went unsolved. There's these two guys at a payphone. I think they I think they were lad In Kings and apparently Gek

just spontaneously blasted at him. The one guy survived with brain damage was paralyzed. The other guy died at the scene. But just give an idea of how bizarre get Wise and how violent he was. I it speculated he probably in addition to these horrible, horrible sex crimes murders, he probably want a lot of other people too, just for the hell of it, or or a test, you know who he was with to see if you know, they

they had the stomach probably wanted to do. I mean, who knows, but they they started asking that Coreel was about these fact patterns they've been related to them by Spritzer. Despite Spritzer's lack of overall lucidity, he described discrete victim profiles and women that they killed with very particular characteristics. And it turns out that the even woman he was talking about was a woman named Schuie Mack and she

had a fight with her brother. They both worked at their parents' restaurant and in a haff at a stop like she got out of the car and uh was walking down Irving Park Road and she had the horror of misfortune to be picked up by the ripper crew. And Corey Alis said, yeah, I grabbed her, I pulled her into the van. You know, he's like, I started punched her in the face to saidd her. He hit her so hard that when her body was found there was this bizarre horseshoe shaped fracture in the back of

her head. They later figured out Corey Ali said hit her so hard her head hit the uh door hinge of the van from the inside and a crack of stone and killed her. But uh, you know, it was clear that it was clear that he was uh probably telling the truth.

is disgusting. I'm gonna warn you. Coriel is related to that Ghak had a Satanic altar in his addict in his attic, and with the severed brass and other body parts, he'd perform a ritual over them, where he'd read Bible passages, often backwards. He'd chant something in Latin. Then he'd ejaculate on the dismembered body part, cut it into pieces, and

the ripper crew would then eat it. As a Satanic offering a Satanic communion, and the police weren't shocked because again these were Bureau detectives, veterans, but they'd never heard of anything like this. And frankly, why would anybody make that up? I mean, this guy who's implicated himself and this serons was went on. I had the death penalty and Andy Coo Corielis eventually was executed. But even even somebody with the sickest of lord fantasies, I mean, why,

why don't even occur to somebody? And this gets worse if you can believe that. They said, okay, give us something else to validate what you're telling us, and he said, okay, well, part of what we do before the ceremony is after we dismember the breast or create a stab wound, we have sexual intercourse with the wound. And the woman's body that was found in Villa Park there was seminal fluid

present in the wound, and this befuddled investigators. I mean, this, this is beyond sick, you know, and apparently, I mean obviously Andy core also was an animal and then and an evil, evil, evil savage, but he was raised in a tritional Greek household. He claimed to be ah to believe in God, he was traumatized by his own savagery and apparently at something of a guilty conscience. Okay, and finally, what what made this even more unbelievable is Eddie Spritzer.

He continued to try and remove get from the scene and these rambling confessions that all seemed to contradict each other, with the one common variable being that these are real victim profiles. He was describing of women who had been found murdered or were missing. He said, oh, and you know,

Andy's brother Tommy helped out sometimes too. So the police go back to the CoA Corelis house where there this poor old Greek guy has just found out that his one son is confessing the Satanic murders, that his other son is being imple located. But at that time Tommy wasn't suspected of anything beyond what sprites Or had said, and the police weren't even confident that this was true. But essentially, the moment they asked Tommy to come talk to them, they made it clear not under arrest, but

we got to clear this up. You know, Tommy confessed to participating and Tommy didn't he uh, he did thirty five years on a seventy year bit. He just got released a few years back. And a bunch of people protested that just uh apropos and nothing. I followed that kind of avidly in it. It was upsetting for this stuff to be I mean locally he brought up again.

In the parking lot, there is contents of a woman's purse and there's a flahead screwdriver, and this becomes relevant. It's as a piece of inculpatory evidence, and I'll explain that in a moment. And Lorraine had been missing for almost a year, and it was as if she disappeared into thin air. And Tommy said that they'd been passing by, and Lorraine was really beautiful, and she fit a profile of what Robin get De liked. She was petite, but

kirby and busty and essentially gets it. I want her, so Tommy and sprites her, grabbed her, pulled her into the man. You know, they beat her, handcuffed her, bound her. That night, they took her, you know, they were holding her hostage. They took her the Rip van Winkle Motel, which is still open. And I was kind of horrified to find out that murder tourists go there because of this case. I've got I've got nothing wrong with visiting

infamous crime scenes because I've done it. But the way people talked about this and yelp and stuff I found to be really tasteless. But Tommy said, they took Lorraine Boreowski to the Rip van Winklin Hotel and they gang raped her. They severed or breast with piano wire, They had sexual intercourse with the wound, and get hacked her to death by hitting her in the throat with a hand as and then they disposed of the body in

a cemetery. Get there to think about cemeteries too. When he said, if you dump bodies in proximity to cemeteries. As long as it's not within the normal we're out of the maintenance workers, it will go and discovered for long enough for animal predation and the elements to get rid of evidence. And sure enough Lorraine Barowski was found

at the cemetery. The screwdriver was significant because gets Van he'd rigged it up so that victims couldn't open the doors from the from it within, and he'd he'd jerry rigged the lock mechanism so that you could open it from outside with a flathead screwdriver. So this, this random flathead being with Lorraine Barowski's belongings became a highly significant obviously in circumstantial but I when women don't when women

don't carry flatting stream drivers. In the purposal, KK, you had to I will die in that hill, but uh, let me find place here in my O. I'm sorry, and Andy could porealis. He confess to the murder of rose Beck Davis, which was the most brazen of what the Ripper Crew did. Rush Street, which to this day is to remain something of the entertainment district. It's way less so than in the in the old days, but in the early eighties. It was very very much happening.

And you know, uh, you're in the heart of downtown. There rose Big Davis with this business lady who's attending some conference and she'd just been grabbed off the street. Same uh sort of assault demo dumped in an alleyway. That happened in area six. And uh, the connection wasn't made to any other you know, any any other homicides.

And that was part of what if you know the g R if you don't have the geography Chicago shoeing Mack was killed in Barrington, which is way west Bill of Park, what is outside the city limits, you know, but bordering approximate on the west side, you know, Rush Street is you know, like I said in the Stars Throw from the Loop, they were doing this h in such a widely dispersed hunting ground. Not to be flippant, that had the effect of of confusing the fat pattern.

And also it wasn't DNA is overstated, and how it's utilized in court it's over persuasive and triers e fact, but not not just lay juries but judges as well. They do it in binary terms, which is really bad. However, obviously it's a highly useful tool, particularly when discussing sexual crimes like these. You know, you couldn't, uh you could, uh, I think you could. I mean if you could type

blood group from blood sample in nineteen eighty two. I believe if the contributor was a secretor, you could type blood from seamen as well. But that was it. You know, a blood group, doesn't I mean you're talking about millions of potential suspects. I mean you can you can exclude somebody, you know, as this the Donnor, but that's about it.

But it was uh and obviously this was before the ubiquity of CCTV and pre cell phones and things, but just the same, what these guys are doing was incredibly brazen. It's it's sort amazing that they were able to get away with with some of these abductions and things. Aska Coriealis Andy co Corielis continued, He attested and took ownership of eighteen murders, but he said, we've done so many,

I probably have lost track. You know. The police, Uh, the police cast they cast Spritzer as an abject simpleton. They cast Gaged as stone cold and hard as ice. They they portrayed Andy as a punk, but I don't think that's the whole story, you know, and he, uh, he went to his death pretty stoically, and the Barowski family was there to witness of execution. I think they were the only impacted victims.

have adopted a categorically anti death penalty stance. And I know a lot of our Catholic friends strongly object to that, but the Orthodox, they don't have that perspective. And this this Orthonox priest who was his spiritual advisor. He he was emphatic that Corialis was repentant, and I he certainly didn't win any friends by sticking up for Andy co Coriolis.

And I don't get me wrong, I go Coriolis should have been executed, that it was proper and if he, if he was surely repentant and came to Christ, that makes me happy. But that does nothing to suggests he shouldn't have been executed. But I don't. I don't believe he was putting on heirs. And there's also no there was absolutely no chance he was gonna be manumented. There was I mean, why why would he fuck around with unrepentant because I want clout from random people?

you're a Greek guy, right, you know, to me. The idea that that was artificial, I think is is I can't prove it per se, but it seems kind of laughable to me.

were you know, wrongfully convicted or whatever. And plus I mean at some point it's just a bad look, you know, I mean I but yeah, I that's one of the things that's, uh, the stirring about this case is I you know, again I whether whether Ady Gcriels was a punk or not. He was a troubled guy. He he was kind of falling victim to his own to his own nature in in in you know, but in terms of typical streak ship, he probably would have had a bad end. But I don't know, he was set in stone.

He would have ended up doing this stuff. I mean, nobody nobody does this stuff. I mean, that's the whole point. And to be clear to the Chicago police superintendent back then, we don't have a police chief or a police commissioner. We have a superintendent in Chicago. He was this guy, Richard J. Breezick, and he was he was the youngest

ever police superintendent. He was thirty seven or something. And he took a particular interest in the Ripper Crew case because it was all over the news for a minute, okay, and obviously there was there was real concern buring on panic. You know, are there more of these guys? What's going

on here? He hold a press conference because and this specifically the subject matter was, you know, the press says there's been allegations that this this, you know, this was the product of a Satanic cult, you know, and ritual sacrifice some things. And Breezak he was some sort of prodigy, I think he uh, I thank you for a time. He was the youngest uh detective and the Detectives Bureau of like ever. He he was an alum of John Marshall Law School, which I have too, and he and

he was number one in his class. He uh, like John Marshall was not a prestige institution, but but it does. But moth cops are not gonna, you know, be number one in their class in law school, particularly nearly eighties when the curriculum was more competitively rigorous. But you know, and he was. He was a big he was a big city police. He wasn't he wasn't some he wasn't some dumb hic or some simpleton holy roller taken in by Satanic panic or whatever the narrative is of people,

you know. And I mean, that's something I've got to emphasize again. And that's really was sort of the motive on my end for is bating this whole series is this was a real thing and the zeitgeist was shot through with it, and it was happening everywhere. You know. That's what I'm trying to convey to that unpleasant man

we talked to the other day. I mean, look, I so I'm a little kid, and everybody's terrified that their daughter, their mom, and their sister is gonna get grabbed by these necrophilic cannibal rapos who who they themselves claim worship Satan.

Then you know, I go to Ventura in La with my folks, you know, a year or two later and Richard Umire is you know, slaughtering people in their homes and their sleep at night, and you know, forcing them to swear to Satan before he does them in you know, I I take it personally when people act like I'm some kind of idiot or something for pushing back on the claim that, oh, everybody who believed that there was a call tenantcieson a zeitgeist, You're just some dumb hic

who doesn't leave his house and believes that the doubles after him. I don't know, man, I don't This stuff either happened or it didn't.

That's a separate part of that's a separate part of the narrative, but the idea that you know, some carnival barker exaggerated, lied, or spun it into a convenient narrative, and therefore the initial claim is false. That doesn't stand up to even you know, let's be honest, like a light examination. So I'm curious, Thomas, if you have more I guess kind of information on the ringleader. Right, yeah, I was gonna get what do we really know about him?

His wife was this bizarre woman who and she tolerated him carrying out affairs and again gek t had sex with both men and women, and one of his girlfriends attested to the fact that he engaged in at least one occasion he engaged in beast reality with a canine and he tried to get her involved in it, and she said, no, you're sick. I'm not doing that. But get when he was initially arrested after his idd by,

you know, his victims survived. Denise Gardner, this woman he'd been having an affair with, mortgaged her house to pay his bail, I mean, which is bizarre. And his wife, he apparently was into really heavy sn M, and he'd punish her by forcing her to do things like sticking pins in her breast or like flat late herself. And she talked to her girlfriends about this like it was normal. You know, this guy apparently had you know, he did

wield power over people. I mean again, I'm not suggesting that you know, he he was some sort of sorcerer or something, but again, you know the fact that he had all these women who were enthralled with him and you know, willing to do all these deviant things to please his bizarre impulses. And you know, he's got women, you know, mortgaging their home to bail him out of jail. He's got street dudes like the Coriela's brothers doing incredibly

deviant criminal things. I mean, there's there's something there, you know, And again it's not Gekt Also too, this is a bizarre twist. Get one of his kids named David Ghekt. He was just a baby when his father went away to prison. David Gekt is one can imagine it didn't have a happy life. He ended up gang bang and I think he was a he was either an ig or a maniac lantin disciple. He got convicted of this murder, this gang related murder in the late nineties, and he

got like an eighty year bit. He was wrongfully convicted. This one uh, this this one gang task Force Detectives Bureau guy essentially framed him up to clear the case. And also he I mean his view of almost certainly was this kid, some gangbanger shit bag whose dad's a rapo, you know, fuck him. But Gek the son he got released after doing like twenty three years, you know, and and he actually was innocent. This isn't some nonsense like

West Memphis three. David Ghek was a guy. I mean, first of all, I mean, how messed up is this is? I mean it's not his fault. His father's an evil piece of shit. I mean, like, so he's growing up in that with that over his head. He uh, the hood. He grew up. He grew up in Belmont Creigen, which uh was a working class white hood. Now it's very Spanish and uh, especially in the nineties, there was a lot like everybody was gangbanging there. And but that's that

that this is an interesting factoid. But no, Deck himself had a and apparently Deck Robin Gek he he was he was a skilled carpenter, you know. I mean, he had his own business. He was good at what he did, you know, and that's why, uh, I mean, as was Gaysey, you know, I mean what one of the things that is made Gaycy dangerous is he was an effective person. And especially he went from you know, he he did time in Iowa for for a sex offense. Cause back Jillen, NOI he gets a job as a short order cook.

But I mean, if he was a skilled tradesman, you know, he did good work, and Gek seems like something a similar profile.

he's he's working at the factor like sentence. He got something like one hundred and thirty years even though he didn't he was never gonna get a homicide. But he's he's base. He said nothing since he's been incarcerated. You know, the whole thing is very strange. I mean to say the least, I mean, be on the obvious.

it's and what have you. But the the guy was so strange and even even a hardened street dude was in the game, which Get was not I mean, if you're if you got if you're employee custody and they're saying they think you're good for multiple homicides, you're you're gonna be sweating me, and you're especially then again, that's that's when Illinois was a death penalty state. You know the fact that nobody got any read on Ghek and he just he was basically like almost apathetic. You know,

there's something like a lot of evil people. He had some sort of power, and albeit of a perverse sort and not amirable sorty, and some kind of spiritual or interdiscipline. I mean, it's possible to have it's possible to be a spiritual adept, but to be evil, you know, I And it's some you know, I mean that's what Yeah. Pull up the picture of the Ripper Crew if you

would please. Yeah, I mean, just like one man doing this well along with Ghek could be strange enough, but you know they have three other men with really with no criminal record either. Granted Andy and Tommy were young. That's Andy on the far left that sprites are on the far right. Then that's Tommy and get you know, he had uh, he had he had some juvenile incidents

for fighting and stuff and you know, petty crime. But to go from for your first major crime to be homicide and not just homicide but murder of a woman, and not just murder but rape on top of that, and then well also too, I mean not not to rehash truly disgusting aspects of this case, but even even a sexual sadist, I mean, who, who who would want to and insert his genitals into a knife wound and not just do that, but do it in the presence of other guys and one after the other, Like, I mean,

who that? That's so bizarre it almost defies reason. Like if this hadn't happened, if some if some sicko transgressive fiction author wrote out this fact pattern, people would be like, that's not credible, that's just gross and pornographic. Nobody would do that, you know, But it happened. Then again, this wasn't some I'll give you this in part two. We'll deal with the trials in part two. As this wasn't just some afterthought either. Core Corey Ellis was emphatic and

ultimately Spikeser was too. The purpose of this memberment was this masturbatory and cannibal ritual under ausmuses of Satanic communion. That was the point of the dismemberment. You know, Robin get was on a call to this through and through. That's why he was doing these things as a sacrifice and a uh an offering to the devil or whatever. Well love what deityes he believed he was in content with I think you're mute at.

are actually doing. And to me very much, the kind of like, oh, they're just crazy, is is sort of a cop out, right, It's sort of a because yeah, sure.

colloquially that person's crazy. If you're doing things like these guys were doing that, that's not mental illness, it's it's it's evil taking what's ultimate, depraved extreme, whereby one drives satisfaction from a disgusting paraphilia that they believe is serving some sort of aesthetical or supernatural imperative. You know, I don't I that that's very much like a progressivest an

enlightenment conceit that everything has some sort of illness. You know, if you know you're if you're if you're deeving or evil, it's because you're sick or there's some sort of mental disturbance. What's also too, I don't believe so there's so there's these four guys who just sort of come together in a greater metro area of five million people, and they're all under the same sort of mental illness that tends towards the most bizarre and sick paraphelia you can possibly imagine.

I mean, that doesn't seem credible.

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