Meaning a light. Man like this man letting butterfly flapping his wing, big down in the forest. Man, it gonna cause the tree fall, letting five thousand miles away. Man, nobody's seen nobody else you see.
You know no.
Man, they like you call a story and you got dicted like that. That's the way.
Man. Don't like a dang on the panel.
Man, Man, you don't don't matter.
Man, you cannot deny. Some of the people who tried to storm the Capitol on the sixth of January, we're holding banners which appealed to classical civilization in some way. That is undeniably true. Far right, alright racist and white supremacist groups use white classical sculptures as their logo. It doesn't take very long to sit down with someone and say, look, we've created a particular image of the classical world as
if it were white. Let me show you what these sculptures once upon a time looked like they were in our view, possibly quite garish, but they didn't have that kind of sense of legitimating any kind of white supremacy at all. I find that quite reassuring because it's a wonderfully easy way to say to people stop it. You have invested and invented a kind of classical past that
never existed. These are the words of Mary Beard, a seventy something year old British classicist who recently went viral for a bizarre segment of an interview which I just read you, where she claimed that so called far right racist, white supremacist like the classics and like classical statues because they are white they're unpainted marble. Aside from being a ridiculous claim on its front, I think it's an interesting prism to look at the way in which classical history
has been deliberately attacked. We see it right there. She relates this eight, which on its face should be a scholarly debate about is our version of classical sculpture accurate to how they would have been seen in the day, into a direct ideological weapon. This is a way to attack people she doesn't like the January sixth rioters as example. Now, one might ask what is a seventy something year old woman from London doing talking about January sixth in the
year of Our Lord twenty twenty six. And while that's a perfectly reasonable question, I think it bears a little bit of investigation into who Mary Beard is. She's sort of the perfect example of exactly what I want to talk about. She's been infamous for a long time as a BBC presenter, as a documentarian for deliberately distorting history
to meet a certain progressive social sensibility. She's infamous for creating a documentary where the Roman soldiers visiting the island of Britannia were not Roman at all, right, they were at and while certainly it was possible for a man from Africa to serve in the Roman legion at that time, it's completely and totally a historical for them to be subsequent, right, we understand the North Africans were a different thing. And clearly this is not a debate about history. This is
an ideological cudgel. And what I think is interesting and others have remarked upon this. There was an article going around absolutely distraught about the fact that so far so called racist, far right people were interested in the Classics, that they had sophisticated arguments that they were taking into it. And we see again clearly, for these people, these classicists, the Western canon is not their primary interest. It is
simply another battleground of ideological warfare. I think, like many people have become reinterested in this field of the culture war after more footage has dropped from the upcoming Christopher Noland Odyssey movie. Almost immediately, the casting has drawn criticism put it mildly, they are not Greek, and most recently, Elliott Page, who you may remember in a previous life as the girl from Juneo, is cast in this movie, presumably as a man. And many people have looked at
this and said, well, what are you doing? You know, why are you injecting this sort of modern political lens into what is supposed to be a historical drama, right, what is supposed to be a retelling of one of the oldest stories in the Western canon. And I think it's very clear, whether you look at Nolan's film, or bird Beard excuse me, or any others of these sort of progressive activist types, that we know you can only serve one master, right, you can only have one top priority.
We understand this instinctively in a religious or a political sense. I mean, look at the White House. Now, there was an attempt to split the difference for a little for this and a little for that, and we saw who
won out right, there's one ultimate priority. And with these people, we understand that they sort of tried to mix the Classics and progressives, and well, progress is a jealous god, of course, and look what happened, right, Any sort of historical consistency or genuine interest in the thing in and of itself is sacrificed on the altar of modern progressive sensibility. And for those who seemingly care about the canon for what it is are deeply attached to this sort of
rich cultural tapestry. Well, what are that we understand there by the standards of these people, they're racists, are far right, they're horrible and my dad, of course, this is cast in explicitly a racial lens. Right. The problem with the Classics, of course, is that it benefits our enemies. This hated group makes them look good. They like it, so it must be destroyed, an attitude that would be familiar to
anyone who remembers the era of gamer game. Right, anything becomes simply marked for destruction because it is liked by the outside group. What I think is additionally interesting is the age of married beer.
Right.
She is a boomer seventy years old, and look, we can make fun of her for that, I'm sure I will in this monologue. But all the same, we've seen this same pattern, whether it is in the Church, whether it is in the classics, whether it is in any one of these fields. You saw people enter and attempt to bring whatever field they were in, whether it was theology, whether it was the Classics, in line with the sort
of secular civic religion of the day. And they made a run of it, right, they mixed one with the other. But those who came after them, right, their children, either literal or ideological, well, they simply dispersed with the mixing altogether. They were no longer progressive classicists. They were simply progressives. Right. They didn't even bother with the underlying material itself is simply look at what's happened to sociology, any number of
the humanities. You see the exact same thing. There's really no scholarly rigor no interest in the material as itself is simply another then you for ideological combat, for grinding those axes that work work quite familiarly. You've seen a very similar thing happen in the Catholic Church. For example, there's an infographic going around tracking the political leanings of priests in the Catholic Church. Unsurprisingly, and look, I'm not Catholic, so if I get this wrong, forgive me, but I'm
surprisingly right. Before and after Vatican Two it's predominantly quite liberal, least by the standards of the day, and since then, right in the sixty years sex it is shifted over and over and over again to the right. As a current writing, I think it's well over eight in ten
described to themselves as staunchly concerned. And why is that. Well, if you grow up with a liberal priest, if you have a liberal classics professor who mixes their progressivism with the Church, or the progressivism with Homer, well they may have in their mind desired to create sort of syncratic religion. But the men, I say, the men, the people who followed after them, certainly didn't. They became progressives full stop.
You've seen this in the propst mainline denominations. You see this over and over again, that jealous God will not abide a divided loyal and those who stayed, those who loved that institution, that tradition for what it was, well, they simply cannot be progressive. Their love for their church, their love for Christ their love for the tradition is incompatible with this secular, progressive, godless state cult. I see
this in my own religious institution. It's very interesting, and I'm sure many of my listeners will experienced the same thing traditionally in my state. Traditionally, I mean, you know, as long as anyone has been alive, the assumption has been that young people are more liberal, more progressive, as we would say, currently than their elders. Right, that is sort of the long arc of history, sort of a mlkay. And that's been broke. Not in raw aggregate numbers, of course,
we understand, but at institutions, right. The people who care, the people who show up, the people who wanted to go to church because they wanted to go to church, the people who wanted to read Homer because they love Homer, well they love that thing. It comes first and foremost. And those who were there for the political nonsense, well they can find that stronger somewhere else. Why would you go with an adulterated water down version, can go for
the full strength stuff. And so it's created this bizarre dynamic where older people like Mary Beard in their seventies are very uncomfortable with the fact that they're presumed allies, that the vanguard they assumed they'd have, have really nothing in common with them at all, that they care about the tradition, whatever that tradition is. And it's created a really interesting dynamic. I mentioned churches. I'm sure you can
see it in your own institutions. And this flailing right, this desire of if it can't be progressive, it must be destroyed, is again something we see across culture that once they realize that they're outflanked, once they realized that the next generation will not carry on well seemingly, the instinct is to burn it down, to torch it, to destroy the whole thing. This kind of spiteful lashing out. Obviously, you see this with a desire to diminish everything right
about the field that launched this woman into prominence. I wrote an essay a while back called the Tyranny of just It. It's a dramatic name forgiven talking about the blank is just that that statue? Right, the defeated goal, Well, it's just a piece of rock covered in garish colors. Right, it looked like Disneyland. It's not white. Now, I'll be the first to admit this, Maybe I didn't know as a kid that these statues were painted, But simply by being a white stone did not indicate to me that
it was like racially white. I mean, obviously the French guy. If depending on how Ben Franklin pild you are, we can debate that specifically. But of course you have to understand, right, this is not a legitimate critique. You see that there. She is not making that claim because she is sincerely interested in preservation or the processing of teaching this information. It's a tire to destroy. It's a desire to say, oh, that thing you like, it's not special, there's nothing to it.
It's not yours, it's nothing. The thing that I have built my life on, it is nothing. You see this in churches. The reason I keep using this as an example, it's because fundamentally this is a religious disagreement. Regardless of your opinion on the Trinity or whatever, you can see that this is ultimately a war of belief, a war
pure ideological claims right, truth claims what is wrong? And in a church context, right you can think of any number of institutions where at the moment the progressive loss, they tried to burn it to the ground. Right This happened in many Presbyterian denominations when the social progressivism of twenty five years ago primarily focused on the ordination of women, and those churches have continued in that direction. When people
sow it to leave, it was scorched earth. Was oh that building you and your community has been in for two hundred years. If you want to leave, if you won't take mandated female clergy, if you won't perform gay marriages, you can't have it. It's hours we're taking it away from you. We don't have a use for it, but you can't have it. And it's the same desire we see over and over and over again, that desire. If
I can't win, you must lose. And it's really encouraging to me that Beard and others are scared, right, they understand that their grip on this is slipping, because whether it's religious tradition, whether it's the Western canon, it is
bigger than these people. It is bigger than this sort of cheap chiency twenty first century politic, which I think is really what bothered me and many others about this recent Nolan film, which okay, fair I haven't seen, but you look at the previous you understand what I mean that it feels as if something sacred is being dragged
through the mud. Maybe not literally sacred, of course, but the feeling this, if this is being cheap, and that's something that is timeless, something that is deeply human that me and an air conditioned classroom in twenty fifteen can read thousands of years after it was composed and connect with They are mine, We are part of the same thing.
There's a deep connection there. And similarly, right when you pick your religious text, I don't want to speak to whichever book you read of, but nonetheless, this is something that has been passed through time, the people have thought was important, the word of God itself, and to see that being dragged through this kind of trash, right, the kind of daily grind politics is rightfully irritating to people, because what draws young men to the classics, what draws
young men to church, is not really the culture war.
In some way, it is right that the desire to react against something that feels say threatening, but something that feels wrong, but also the idea to tie yourself to all yourself to something that is bigger than you, that is your civilization, right where you came from, and it's especially rich coming from people in their seventies, people like Mary Beard, who grew up in a time in which there was a social fabric, who grew up in a time in which you could say an Englishman, you could
say an American, and something could quickly pop to mind, something that you could put yourself into, a canon in its own right of figures and attitudes you could index yourself to. That is how one is a good Englishman.
That's how one is a good America. And to see someone who grew up in that, who's presided over and in her case and many others fostered and encouraged this kind of culturalist era, it's a bit rich, right, It's a bit rich because you look at it and you say, look what you have wrought, right, look at the world you have created. You grew up bearing none of the cost.
And now that the bill has come due, you look at people who are unhappy with that, and you say, no, you racist, white supremacist, thug, you idiot, you moron, I'm going to burn it down. And that attitude, I think is all too typical. And I think when we look at the canon, right, when you look at the Christian tradition. Pick whichever one you you like best. I think we have to understand that they are rightly afraid, that they are attempting to destroy something which is much much bigger
than that beard or god awful documentaries, this film. They're trash. They will be forgotten. They will not be preserved through thousands of years, like Homer, like the scriptures, like the pieces of art. Were ostensibly debating because for these people, they are simply one of many fields of combat. Right, they'll move on to something else. We've seen it over and over again, and so to me it's worth discussing because it's an attitude we see all too often. But
I'm not afraid of these people either. Should you be. They're flailing, they don't know what they're doing, and I think they will be sorely disappointed to see their god awful intellectual cull the sack coming to an end. Because those who care about the classics, those who care about the church going forward, care about it for its own intrinsic value, not simply as a way to wage this
culture war. And so I think in many cases, to quote to quote Dave, the distributist right, we have a monopoly on the men who care, and in my mind, that's encouraging. So, guys, this has been a little bit of experiment from me. I've decided to start appending these monologues to the front of my podcast interviews, sort of an imitation of Tucker I think he does a good job of it, but also as sort of a primer to the episode. So this episode is with my buddies
over at Dual Stalty. Great podcast talk about the Western tradition classics, both funny and informative. It's a good episode. You guys should check out their work. I've already done an episode with them BEFO. You guys really seem to enjoy it, and let them know I sent you. This episode is sponsored, as they all are. I'm going to probably do the sponsorships here instead of at the end. But as usual by Axios Remote Fitness Coaching JD helps
me out a lot. So if you were interested at all in improving your fitness becoming like a Greek statue, one might say, head over to Axios. What a mil I sent you. Other than that, guys, you know how it is supported by listeners like you five bucks a month. Episodes early in ad free and thought further. Ado dou A Stalty, thank you very much. All right, Duo Stalty, welcome to the j Burns Show. You guys doing, hey man doing all right? Yeah, I'm glad to have you
back on. I was planning on having you on anyway, and then I had to crash out about an episode I will not be airing boof chat and you guys were like, oh, hey, how about we come on instead of you putting up that? And I was like, you know what, good idea, And honestly, I'm glad to have you on anyway because last time I was at a pretty ni I had the flu, so I was even more retarded than normal. But that said, good to see you guys here.
Good to see you last time your episode with us on it gave us like a huge bump, A lot of a lot of Jay Burden listeners migrated over and I for that, I am very very thankful, and we are very very thankful.
We're basically doing you a favor at this point.
Okay, yeah, we're helping out the little guy.
Here's the thing with podcasting is you can look at it two ways. Either it's a feudal system or it's a giant multi level marketing scheme, and it kind of depends on how positively you view the whole thing.
Well, yeah, do elaborate on how you see it as a feudal system, because we had an hour and a half long argument about this in an episode.
Because basically, what happens and I just want to say, at this point in the podcasting world, I'm like a I don't know if I'm even like a baron yet. I'm probably like a particularly up at a night but what happens is and honestly, the more I say this, the more this analogy falls apart. But that's never stopped
me before. But effectively, you start out you're a surf, you're nobody, and then you have to you have to find someone to sort of attach yourself to you in sort of a mentor mentee, and then once you get to a certain point, you get to have your own serfs, and really no one actually gets any better, it's just you fill in below them. So that's the kind of like multi level marketing part of it.
Yeah.
Well, I've been actually planning on expanding our operations to India, so we're in the works of translating the podcast and Hindi right now. So its yeah, we're gonna spread out the multi level marketing and hopefully hit that very valuable demographic.
Did you guys catch the Dogan crash out?
Yes?
You know what it reminded me of. It's that video of the Greek and the Turk fighting on Omeigal and the guys like, I am more white than you. You are see brown? Oh That's all I could think about when seeing him go, I'm more white than you.
Well, it's also it's just like it's very much the like but Alex who asked you?
Like, I don't want to name names, but I do remember for a few years before this, there have been some very prominent people on the right that have have have held Dugan in high regard and like, this isn't a shocking thing. If you look at anything that Dugan's put out, it's all third world eight man drivel. And you know, I don't know. Now some people are like, wow, he's saying all this. I'm like, you didn't notice this? Like, well, I won't name.
Names, but here's the thing, Like, at least part of this, I think is people not being able to be adults and realize that a guy can both have said or read interesting things and also be by and large a complete moron. Like you know, you can. You can look at someone and be like, Okay, that's an interesting idea and then look to like paragraph two and be like, oh yeah, that's not good. I don't like that. And so the like ninety five IQ being like, oh you you read a book by Dugan that lets mean you
agree with this. It's like, okay, come on, please, the adults are speaking, go back to the kids table.
And on the flip side, the people that are like, whoa Dugan said this? He's based He's gonna save the West, and you're like, no, hold on, no hold on, buddy, Yeah, it's it's you know, I think the quality of discourse on the right has really really gone down as the internet access is spread across the world, because now you have you know, twenty five billion Africans and Indians, you know,
going ha, I'm based trad LARPer fourteen eighty eight. You know, I'm the true Rian son of Hyperborea, and this is why you should support you know, Sneako or Dan Blazarian for Congress. And I'm like, you know, does anything anything anymore? I have this, you know, this is we had a discussion about this. This is why I also don't like when they all start talking about the Roman Empires. I'm like, look, you're too IQ to talk, too low IQ to talk about this.
Like, well, yeah, Titus, I completely agree. And this is why I have simply seceded from discourse and really endeavored to make this a show about nothing, just.
The Seinfeld podcasts.
Yes, yeah, and you know what, just like Seinfeld, I too have a certain ancestry. I am a proud Jewish man living in New York. But in all seriousness, guys, your show primarily covers the classics. And there's been sort of two, in my mind, kind of interesting developments. Right One, you have this this Nolan movie right coming up, which, boy, my expectations were low, but somehow it seems to be
even worse than I think we could have expected. Yeah, and then I think that that is kind of kicked up increased scrutiny of the classics, because this is, you know, a pretty obvious attempt to kind of inject, you know, a modern political lens on a classic poetic epic. And so people have turned to a clip of one Mary Beard basically talking about a sort of deliberate endeavor to try and make the classics less appealing to the quote unquote far right. So those are the two things I
want to hit. But to start off at the top, I assume you guys have been have seen the advertisement for the new Olan Nolan Odyssey movie. Correct.
This is how I know you're not a true listener, because we had a ten minute long rant about that in the latest episode.
You see. Okay, could I make an alternative defense for it, because I agree there's probably no hope, but I would
like to believe there's a chance. And the one example I'll give is Starship Troopers was very intentionally not supposed to be the movie it came out to be, and as a representation of kind of hind Lines fascist isn't the right word, but a like republican sort of ideal in the more classical sense, right, And that movie ended up coming out and it was a great expression of Hindline's ideas, despite Berhoman's kind of attempt to make it otherwise.
Perhaps perhaps there is some underlying message in this steaming pile of dog shit that no one has, you know, dug around the dirtiest trash heap in India. For I'm hoping that that's what ends up happening, is that despite the terrible aesthetic of it, it somehow undermines what it's actually trying to do and be subversive. But outside of that, yeah, it's going to be. It's going to be so plenty awful. I mean, we talked about different ways to do it.
If you're gonna do so, A lot of people said, you can do Eggers because he does all these historical dramas. You could also do it like an actual play. There's just I think he does moon Rise Kingdom would would be really good at doing Wes Anderson. Yeah, I think a Wes Anderson version of it would be really unique if you were to do it in sort of a play style.
But I just thought of like the stuff Fox, George Clooney doing it being Odysseus.
But I mean, like, like, if you think about fantastic mister Fox, wouldn't that be like a great way to do all the sort of monsters that he encounters in the.
That's kind of like I was gonna say, like that. That's the other angle to take it from is either go his super historically accurate or do something like over other or art Thou. Yeah, you know where it's like that's the Odyssey, but it's not, you know, it's it's not or you know I brought up in the episode. I was like, if you look, if you're gonna want to make something hip and modern, like it's a batshit insane movie, but the nineties Romeo and Juliet with Leonardo DiCaprio.
It's like, you know, that's at least a bold statement.
Oh, the Genghis Khan movie too. The Ginghis is really good soccer. Yeah, the Genghakanvy is legitimately really good with John Wayne playing Genghis Khan. There's not a single ethnic Mongol, and I believe they have a Native American playing like the antagonist Jamuka. I believe it is the name and
it's asmatic and yeah, it's right. It might be like a some sort of thing like it's based on secret history of the Mongols, and it's relatively accurate portrayal both in kind of the spirit, more than three hundred would be. And it's just completely like there's so many ways. Man, I'm so upset by this. You have no idea the.
Thing that makes me upset. Sorry, Jay, do you want to if I cook?
Now?
The thing that really makes me upset is that it shows a broader trend. I'm gonna become. I'm gonna say some gay artist stuff here, but it's a reflects a broader trend in arts and music nowadays that is playing it safe and still sucking. Right, because if you look back, there's a lot of movies in music that were made during it's kind of that like I would say probably nineteen sixties to nineteen nineties. It is kind of golden age of mass media that did not play it safe
at all, and a lot of them did suck. But you can look at something like, you know, trying to think of a good You can look at like Styx's Mister Roboto and you can go, man, this album's not very good, but you know what they went for it, And I still can appreciate that. The worst thing for me is when an artist plays it safe to avoid failing and they still fail, because that's just the ultimate dereliction of your duty as an artist, Right, What are
you gonna do make marveloid slop that still sucks? You know, become like it's like Disney Star Wars. It's like there's they're not actually doing anything new or innovative and they're still sucking.
Yeah. Well it's like that you're taking the safe option and you're still not not doing anything with it.
Yeah.
Yeah, well because and here's the thing. Uh, you know, I recently watched the Coen Brothers movie Hail Caesar, Yeah right, which is you know, sort of making fun of you know, the sword and sandal epics of another era. And it's funny, it's a good movie. It's the message of it is surprisingly you could say like traditionalist, right if you have the eyes to see interesting film. But point is right. You look at even the kind of you know, most over the top kind of historical movies of that era,
and you can't say they didn't try, right. There's a ton of effort put into it. And even if it's like a little corny and like the dialogue is perhaps a little bit to like leave it to beaver for kind of modern sensibilities, it's like, all right, there's something there, and.
There's an earnestness. There's an earnestness.
And to your point, Titus about the kind of like taking the safe option and even managing to mess that up. That just kind of drives me crazy because if if we were looking at this film and it was just it was it didn't look good, but it looked really weird, Like, oh, I haven't seen anything like this before, Like, let's give it a shot, you know, like they're be least some interest.
But this really does seem to be the corn of the sort of like direct to like Amazon style with a two hundred and fifty million dollar project.
Yeah. And that's the other thing as well, because people will go like, well, sometimes they have to you know, placate the you know, executives and the money people. And I'm like, this is Christopher Nolan, Dude, He's one of the few directors nowadays that could just do anything he wanted and get paid for it.
Well do you do? You all know who? Uh? Elliott Page is supposed to play in this because I've heard people saying it's Achilles, but I looked that up. I cannot confirm it.
I think it'd be really funny if Elliott Page played Helen of Troy and did the proper ancient Greek thing of having men, well, you know, it would be sorry, a woman passing as a man playing a woman.
They were like three levels deep of Yeah, we talked about that.
Actually probably is the most accurate casting if we're to go with a historical accuracy some weird a woman. Yeah, that's why it should be technically right.
Well, and the thing is that it's it's some black broad who's who's Helen and Troy? And again it's like, look, if you want to make a black Helen and Troy, that's fine, you know, put you know, it's it's the Odyssey, but in the Bronx or something like that. They're going they're going from you know, we joked about this.
And we're going from home to pick up their EBT card.
Yeah, like, look the Odyssey, you know you want to you want to put a black Helen de Troy? Great, you go for we gotta take this. They go from Troy, New York to Ithaca, New York and.
The hell Cat of theseus.
If every part has been stolen off of it, is it still the same hell Cat?
But you know, like I said, we like that. That's the thing is like, look, you want to make your like that's why I there's a more deliberate subversion of everything here is that Like if they wanted to make an interesting and unique story with all the race swap stuff. There are so many ways to do it in a way that would be creative and groundbreaking. But no, their whole thing is we need to completely erase this very foundational text of you know, Western culture. And not only that,
but the dialogue is just got off. This is why Emily Wilson should be drawn and cortered.
I mean, I think that's a reasonable ask. The uh, it's the look of it too, is kind of odd to me because look, like I get it. There is the like Hollywood version of the Classic World, which is not historically accurate.
But this is the Marvel version of the hundred percent.
Yeah, it's like the poster is this kind of like like, I guess you would call it like a piano black Greek helmet with like an edgy like human spine covered in gold. Have either of you guys ever seen the fan made Astartes short film?
Yeah?
Yes, yes, yeah, really good right? Just some guy made it technically impressive?
Is that the one he made his own chapter?
Yeah, and it got just like nuked from orbit by James Warkshow.
Yeah, I was gonna say, I was like, I'm trying to remember that it was that one. Oh what a shame g W. Plus, I wonder if anyone still subscribes to that.
Oh no, I just pirated in Spanish off telegram. But point is, the reason I bring it up is, yeah, pretty much, it's just like Space Marines marching to Viva Espanya. But point is, do you guys remember the two like psychic villains in that kind of the only reason I bring it up is they look literally exactly like the poster to this movie. Like, it looks like someone basically copy pasted, and like, if that's a design that comes out in some guy's self made sci fi and made
it short, you're like, that's sick. But if it is a high budget Hollywood version of you know, one of Homer's epics, it's you know, it's weird. It's kind of like it's like TMU version basically.
Yeah, yep, it's it's just it's it's it's depressing. And you know what, the best version of the Odyssey was already made and is made by the Coen Brothers, and it features the Soggy Bottom Boys, so we don't even have to acknowledge this.
Christopher Nolan Slope, I mean I will go see it because it looks bad enough to be entertaining.
I'm not going to see it because I will leave the theater with a felony.
You'll you'll turn into a teen. Uh.
I saw one that was despicable goon. I'm going to turn into a.
Despicable, despicable goon, motivated by by righteous anger for the I'll I'll.
Be a changing consumer? Uh? Was it changing consumer habit habits?
Yeah?
So I want to pivot to this clip from Mary Bird, and I want to say both to let you guys know and to let the audience know. Stealing a page from Tucker's homework. This will be the first episode of my show with a monologue, so you guys will have heard this clip in that monologue. Working on a little something. We'll see how it turns out. If you get to this point, just tell me if you think it's gay
or not, and as we can adjust from there. But point is, I think it was interesting one because it's pretty clear that this woman is not particularly intelligent, and also because again the level of just kind of pure resentment in it is kind of shocking. I assume both of you all have seen this clips.
Oh yes, I've seen it, but I've been trying to avoid stuff like this, but it is good for the show for us to talk about it.
Yeah, she's an ogre wench effected, like she legitimately looks evil, you know how some people have that it sort of oozes off of the It's like the rold Doll cartoon. She uses that. Yeah, awful person, and everything she's done for Roman education has been pretty pretty terrible, you know.
Ironically enough, she did make effectively the same argument that Hassan Piker did about nine to eleven. Or she was like, yeah, American deserved it, which is, to be honest, funnier than anything she said said.
Yeah, that's one of her stronger arguments for sure.
For sure, I think, like I don't know, I deliberately try to avoid like authorities on historical subjects because a lot of times it turns into this kind of stuff like you look at you take one look at Mary Beard and you go, Okay, this is some dumb broad who got into classics as partially as a way to completely undermine it and hollow it out from the inside. You know, there's a few Well, if you're a woman,
I'm straight up just not gonna listen to you. If you're a guy and you talk about anything related to like certain sexual dynamics, I'm not going to listen to you.
Now.
If you're like a historical expert on military history, I'm gonna you're the probably autistic enough that you know what you're talking about.
And there's a.
Few people that I will like still enjoy their opinions on even though they do they are kind of libtarted. Anthony Carldellis is a great, great source on the Byzantine Empire, but sometimes he just gets a little lib tarted here and there, but to his credit, he does not let it affect his historiography of the Byzantines.
Same thing Tom Holland. Tom Holland is a lib Dem voter very openly, but when you read like Uh Dominion and the rest of his works on Rome, and they come across as either neutral and sometimes even pro the Caesars, whereas Mary Beard is very explicit she conceptualized, conceptualizes Rome as basically masculine, which is bad, and it just it groups all of those things together. Everything the Romans do
is awful. Everything that Roman women like Libya Augustus's wife do is amazing, and that's the end of the story. And if you like Roman history and you're a white guy, it's because you're a race. You know, all the standard sort of accusations that get thrown out. It's very it's very obnoxious, and she is pretty high up, and I think she's in the Royal Academy of like Roman History
or some bs. It's very obnoxiously. Yet the clip was just another atrocity of like her thinking, which I think it's a good thing because these people are on the out, I believe personally, I hope.
So this is technically on topic, but only barely. Her list of controversies is very funny, and so there's one this I was finding her. I was trying to find her early life. Turns out she's just British. But anyway, nevertheless, I did find London. Yeah, yes, yes, of course, yeah, this is the city of London. That How could I forget? Uh I was gonna say something nasty there, you know, I'm not going to do it. I'll end that put
a pin in it. Uh So, point is, in twenty eighteen, there was there was a report that Oxfam, which is like a massive NGO, had had been doing some some raping in disaster zones her tweet. Of course, one can't condone the alleged behavior of Oxfam staff and Haiti and elsewhere, but I do wonder how hard it must be to sustain civilized values in a disaster zone.
That's such a that's like the Avolean spirit.
Yeah, basically just like Colonel Kurtz, you know, for her. Yes, that is in London.
Yeah, that's that's a very Hey. I hail that.
Yeah, I mean I do.
I I'll always love like a load bearing butt in a statement. And you see, you'll see something that's like I'm against you know, the violation of corpse, you know, something just like I'm against killing puppies button. You're like, what it's like how Sam France I think it's Sam Francis like has uh uh In one of his examples of an arco tyranny, he has like a whole long thing about child pornography and then afterwards just leads with like afterwards just gives a pretty basic example of a
property dispute. And you're like, oh, you could have led with like you don't have to you don't have to die on this hill man.
Yeah, yeah, I know, exactly what you're talking about where and to be fair, like I get his point, so I yeah, like the power.
There are certain things that you just don't bring up, like it's okay, we can you know, there's third rails you can touch, and then there are third rails that are perfectly fine to be left where they are because they're not important enough.
Yeah, yeah, it's like, okay, I totally understand that from like a constitutional law perspective, sending a guy to prison for twenty years because you've got a traffic stop and notice some CP I understand that is technically illegal. However, can't we just, like I don't know, strap into a boulder and like shoot him into the ocean or something like you know.
Yeah, like I just I don't really want to be the guy that dies on that hill. And but going tell me more about Mary Beard's controversies because I'm very interested.
Oh that's really the only funny one. Every other one is her saying something stupid and then getting really mad when people say she's stupid. So she was. I didn't realize. But if you've seen that clip going around talking about Rome and Britain where they made all the soldiers brothers, which you know, depending how Ben Franklin pilled you are,
could be fairly accurate. But and then basically her saying like how dare these vile misogynists take objection to what I said just a British woman effectively.
Yeah, that's again, that's another thing that like, you know, if I am to appin a little bit on this kind of revisionism I think we have done in the past, I don't want to just go over it again. The one white pill I will say is that we're so beyond the point of realistic nature, like you know, we're at the point now with the liberal revisionism that like recconning, not reccon that's not the right word, but like red you know, rectroactively going back and saying someone's like secretly
gay is kind of like old hat. That's kind of quaint, you know, it's like, oh, you know, that's at least you know, the guy who never married once in his you know, fifty year long reign. You know, Okay, well that's bullshit, but that's more believable than black Roman soldiers in Britains, or Cleopatra being black, or you know.
Very Mary Beard will have her head shoved into a toilet by a pack standing migrant who's stabbing her and try to explain why multiculturalism is a good thing, Like.
It's a well in the thing that but the white pill is that like, I don't think. I think that there was a period of time where a bunch of women started women in eunuchs essentially started taking having a
lot of influence in history and classics and stuff. And I just don't see a lot of young Like when I look at the people that are into history now, it's really none of tho, Like they haven't created any proper successors, whereas the autistic chud white men have remained into history like they always have been.
Well, so I've got a question. Are either of you religious?
Yeah? I am a very strong Presbyterian because predestination is correct.
I you and I have something in common. Uh. Well, so point is if you both answered yes to this, you'll see exactly what I mean. Where the people who initially started with either religion or the classics and used it as a way to sort of smuggle their politics in and as a sort of attack vector, their children just dispensed with whatever they were mixing progressive politics with
and that became their whole thing. So you see this in for instance, the turnover in the Catholic Church, right that you know, their priests were predominantly liberal in nineteen sixty it's now dramatically conservative. What explains it, well, basically, if you listen to a liberal priest, you became very liberal and you dropped being a Catholic.
In average.
You saw a very similar thing doing happen inside the Presbyteria denominations, where you know, if you look at the mainline churches, they're all old, gay and dead, whereas you know, in the more kind of conservative traditional denominations, it's exploding,
you know. And so I think that there's a similar thing happening with the Classics, where especially as there's a lot less and less money in it, it seems as if the only people who are still in it either have you know, a sort of a sort of you know, Mary Beard style like legacy money injection so that she can just keep doing whatever she does forever until she dies, or you're doing it for the love of the game.
And if you're doing it for the love of the game, you know, you actually love the thing for itself, not as a political battlefield. Just to thought that.
Yeah, and I do think that that's an important thing to touch on. And it's once again the thing that I really fight against is I do not think that history itself should be used as a political bat especially this kind of history, you know, ancient history, shouldn't be used as a political battleground the way that a lot of people on the left and some people on the
right to. I'm just kind of sick of that. I would prefer people get into history and enjoy history because they enjoy history and you can notice the patterns throughout time and you can, you know, draw your conclusions, but you should not you should not into history as like a secondary thing too. I'm trying to make a political point, which is how I see someone like you know, that's that's someone like Mary Beard or on the other side, that god awful Roman helmet guy.
Well, if I could offer a little kind of pushback to that, my dear Titus, I'm not entirely sure I would agree with that, because I think we just talked about the Indian in a recent app and like propaganda using history I think is not necessarily a bad thing. Like if you were to ask me in going back, is the India a good thing, even though it clearly like bastardizes some of the history and be like, yeah, obviously it would be good for Romans at the time.
Good propaganda is not necessarily a bad thing. But people with Mary Beard are the issue is they're just putting out bad Well, it's two things. One, they're putting out bad propaganda. I mean we've seen this with the Nolan movie. Even though it's not academic, you know, it is ultimately propagantic. He's not doing it for artistic's sake. He's doing he's trying to prove political point, but he's doing it in
a very gross and not great way. And I mean, there is clearly very good political propaganda today and are around, but yeah, the classics just fail it. And the other thing is is much like how on the right you don't have a lot of patronage of kind of artistic works. You don't have that on the left either. So it is what you're saying, Jay is eventually it just runs up to the point where the gatekeeping that exists into this community is the gatekeeping which has always existed, which
is you need to actually be interested in it. Someone doesn't just give you a whole chunk of money and say, here, produce this. That pipeline is dead. And you know, spreading shitty political propaganda is not as big a draw. I mean, Tyson, I will do our recordings at like twelve o'clock at night, because we truly genuinely are fascinated and love all sorts
of this shit. And a long term I hope maybe this is me retident or leftover libertarianism being hopeful, but I do think in the long term that ends up winning out and gets shittily produced political propaganda, even if it is whether it's history or just genuinely good propaganda.
Good things, good things last and bad things don't. And I mean, like it's just you know, yeah, the ship rises to the top, but then it just dissipates, you know, So you always have to have hope in that and that nature. And yeah, and I think that when people listen to the show, Jay, how often do you listen to the show. We're going to put you on the spot for a sec.
U when's the last time you came on?
Uh, well we came on last week, don't you remember?
Yeah, then it was last week.
Yeah, that's what I like to hear no, I'm joking, but uh yeah, like I think that. Number one, we do the podcast because we like to do it. You know, it's it's it's it's an excuse for both of us to research history and enjoy reading and studying and and debating as well, like the fact that I can you know, there'll be stuff that I'm reading and I'm like, God, I need to talk to done later because I need to, Like I can't just like parse of someone. I need I need to I need to chew. I need to
chew on this with somebody. But I think that that when when people are very much engaged. It's like we talked about, like circling all back to the movies and stuff like that. It's the earnestness. You know, if you don't have the earnestness and anything you produce and people are just not going to like it as a as a standard right And even if you produce something that's
maybe not great, our thing is good. I'm just saying, you know, even if it isn't great, but you're doing it with earnestness, people will recognize that and resonate with that. It's something very human in all of us. It's why you're seeing a bunch of you know, people, uh that aren't a fan of like AI music or whatever. And I don't I don't really want to get into that because it's a whole separate thing and most of the people that are like anti AI music are you know,
idiot communists blah blah blah. But but but the silver lining in that is that there are people that are going, no, I like seeing real music, and That's what I'm going. I'm like, when I talk to people that are so worried about like aiart music, I'm like, do you not see the very large market of people that don't want anything AI? Like you always have a market. There are always people that will enjoy the triumph of the human will.
Well, and I think that like in my mind, the and I'm not looking to necessarily get into a huge like I guess conversation about human nature, although who knows we manned up there. But to me, the the fun part about reading ancient literature is the kind of tension between oh, wow, these people are exactly like me and wow, this is really alien? What are they doing? You know?
Like that's the interesting thing? Yeah, and that human core to it, right, because if we're talking about, like if we're talking about you know, the Aliad in particular, right,
the alien in the Odyssey. Both, it's like you read parts of this and you're like, okay, sure, you know there's some of this is fantastical, some of this is sort of mythic, but there's other parts that are so deeply human that even you know, I remember when Bagbee was taking you through it the first time, when I was like sixteen, Like, on one hand, I'm sixteen, I'm kind of a moron, so like some of it's going over my head, like this incredible connection be like, oh no,
they're They're just like me, you know. And that I think is addition to kind of the kind of timeless wisdom aspect, the historical irrelevancy of it, like that shines through.
And so at a certain point, right, like the materials good enough that even if you don't have necessarily to your point, like the highest production value or whatever, like a good faith effort, you're working solid material, right, you don't necessarily need to add a lot, and so you know, to see it kind of you know, brought into something that feels very kind of current and you know, kind of stupid and changeable, you know, the sort of things that people won't remember or care about in four or
five years. Is really frustrating because it's like, man, this is like older than my like older than my civilization practically depending on how I just think you want to get about it, and like it's that it feels sort of not to say, like something sacred, but something that is way more serious than you know, like modern slot politics is being dragged into it.
Yes, I want one hundred percent agree. Are you cool if I take this on a slight left turn because I have an interesting thing because Dune and I just did an episode on the a neeod Because you mentioned Aliated Odyssey and the i neiod is. Are you familiar with the Eneid?
Yeah, I've I think I tuniqually translated it, but not very well.
Okay. One of the things that really stuck with me when because Dune did a lot of the research and I kind of went in pretty blind, which I like doing with these kind of some of the episodes. One thing that really stuck with me is how reading it and knowing that it is this very Roman propaganda story in a Nea is meant to be kind of this
I I this this paragon of Roman ideals. I was kind of struck at how uncomfortable I felt as the as the thing went on, because it's we talk about it at the end of the episode, but it's I don't know if Anias is like a good guy, and it's interesting that that's the the way that Rome wants to view themselves. And the question I have for you and I also do and I don't want to just hog all the spotlight with this one, so you're free to jump in on this one. But Jay, I'm kind
of interested. Are there certain classic like pieces of the classics that you read that you're you find like that more alien thing of like wow, Like I don't you know, this is kind of hard for me to root for.
Oh yeah, I mean honestly, like one hundred percent, like mostly in the like like have you ever read any of the like a Syrian stuff? Like, uh, like you read the like the I can't remember what they're it's been years since I've gone through it, but like the description of like like what they would write on like gates and walls and stuff about like flaying thousands of people, And you're like, I can kind of meme myself into thinking this is cool, you know, but also at the
same time, like, you guys are horrible. Why would I no. I it's like, I don't know, it feels like it's almost past human and I know it's not, but that feels very different. And then you read like even some of the weirder stuff like tell us I was mentioning earlier, we were like, this is just like this is just how a mutant tweet, you know what I mean, Like nothing has changed.
Yeah, I think with that one as well. I mean it's interesting just looking into kind of especially the propaganda mythology, because when you look at like things of history and what people did, it's like, well, humans are very flawed, but when you look at how civilization wants to view themselves, and it's that deeply flawed. I mean, we talked about this is kind of like an ending thing on our episode, but it was like, what's the American need and Dune what you said, moby dick.
Moby Dick is very clearly moby dick.
And it was kind of at the end of the episode, but we didn't have time to talk about it. But I want to bring it up here because I think it'd be an interesting kind of discussion on you know why movie.
Dick because it's the pursuit of an ultimately unattainable goal, because of the foundation it's based upon is flawed itself, and while there's some good intention in the beginning, ultimate well, I don't know. I think it speaks to America's underlying
sort of Protestantism. Sorry, I know there's a lot of Catholics sells to the show, but I think it Protestant force is the one that ends up driving America for good Andy, and it's a very it's a very Protestant in that sense where it's a really, really far off, unattainable goal and you give up all possible pleasure and just enture this ultimate suffering for what to some may seem like a stupid, pointless goal. But what to the
Americans or the people the Pea Quad is the ship. Yeah, people on the Peak Quad, like the crew, what it means to them to actually go and do this, even if it means falling this batch of craziestdea. Damn it, We're going to do this to the end of the Earth. And uh, yeah, I don't know. I think that that's probably why a pursuit of an unattainable goal, which as it currently not to get too current politics, but as it currently stands, I think that's a lot of points
in American history. I think that is a challenge that we face more so than other nations would have a long history they can reach back into.
So have you considered that it is the American version of the Odyssey, is in fact Harold and Kumar go to White Castle. No, I apologize.
But.
Freddy got fingered.
I love that movie. No one will record a review of it with me, but I love that movie.
I feel like you could ask Bird. I feel like Bird would do that.
Bird might. He also might shoot me, and I don't even know if i'd have an argument against him at that point.
Yeah, well, I think that, like because it's interesting to look at. The thing that really strikes me with the I neid is how flawed, at least to me, like
the view of Rome. It doesn't feel idealistic. And I think that's kind of an interesting looking at what we dick because it's like, yeah, it's very accurate to the the American ideal of the struggle in striving for something that probably you can't get, but you have to learn like you become so engrossed in the struggle of it that that almost becomes the destination, right, the American dream, right, if you take it out of like the political sense
of like, you know, America being a failed attempt at you know, some sort of republic. I think that it's also interesting looking into the cultural thing of the American of you know, if you just work hard enough, you can make it. You can do anything, right, And for a lot of people, they become so wrapped up in that that they forget what they're actually going for, right.
Yeah, and it causes them to undermine what it means to be a human itself, whether it's selling your soul online but through naked pictures and sleeping with other men, or whether it's just doing stupid like all sorts of things nowadays that think you can tie this pursuit of I can do it, I can work hard and making myself damn any other means possible, and that that doesn't end up well. And I think it's expandable past that. But there's definitely one layer of analysis of Moby Dick.
Yeah, it's the monomoniacal obsession, right, and it's it's an even outside of like the selling your soul aspect. Even if someone does do it by the books, you know, you lose yourself, right. You know, someone will be focused on, you know, making a million dollars and then they make a million, and you know they don't stop and look at like their family around them or the things that they have accomplished the next The only thing that matters now is to get to ten twenty three, you know.
I mean Ishmael may not have died, but he ends up alone. And that's kind of what happens when you pursue this goal.
Hey, it's lonely at the top.
Well sure, I'm sorry, but.
It's lonely at the destination.
But I mean to tie it back, I guess to the indied and the ancient world. I look at that and I find almost every character except Qui quig for obvious reasons, very relatable and different aspects of me as an American that you can see in it. I think in the Need you see that very much as well, where Romans would have looked at that and seen various characters in their own lives, and Virgil does a good
job portraying as a multi dimensional character. I think much more so than some other of the much much earlier Greek playwrights, but honestly won't do that. We're gonna look at that, and you know, perhaps there's gonna be the transvestites in California saying wow, I see myself in Achilles. But for the rest of us Westerners more broadly, we get to look at and say, wow, that is completely foreign.
That represents nothing I believe in. That is just there's something deep kind of what you're saying earlier, Jay, is there something deeper underneath in those stories that it's not quite articulatable, but it speaks to us from being in the West. And Nolan's just gonna fucking take that and crush it all in front of us. So it's gonna be a it's going to be a murder on the screen. To watch it is very It is very upsetting.
It doesn't have to be upsetting if you don't watch it, because I'm not going to watch it.
I watched the Netflix Cleopatra documentary, so I cannot believe.
I cannot believe you watched good.
It was astounding. I absolutely loved it. Black Cleopatri, well, Black Cleopatra has it going on. Let me tell you. She is one of the most retarded things I've ever wanted. It is glorious. I highly recommend it is.
My favorite clip is the one where it's like, well, my grandmammy said that Cleopatra is always black. It was like whatever the scholars say. You know, I know that my grandmammy was right. You know, I can't remember the exact bit, but it's like some black lady going. It was passed down by my family.
They actually got sued Netflix by the government of Egypt for putting that out court because it was so atrocious.
Well was the other because I think the same time we discussed that, we discussed the other.
Rowda Caesar documentary. They had a Caesar documentary. In the first ten minutes they say that Caesar was with crass Is putting down the Spartacus rebellion. Yes, it's like, huh, that's a pretty wild claim to make at that point.
Come on, do you know what the subheadache of Netflix Cleopatra is? No, I've forgotten afriaking queens Cleopatra.
I know about it. I know about plenty of African queens, but I know Clean Patrick one of them queens.
Let me know, we just need to start uh remaking every North African figure as if they're a person of much color.
You know, yeah, I.
Know, stealing fruit. Who knows?
I want to do? Uh like various African legends and myths but played by all white casts. And you know, just.
Is just like this fat chud No no, no, he makes a bunch of money. You could do an American version. He makes much money in Vegas and then drives across the country picking up local collar workers that'll just end up being Mexicans that he hauls around.
Actually, that would be a really interesting like he's like a he he would have to be well, actually, you know what, he's a Jewish casino owner in Vegas that decides to spread his wealth with You could make him a non Jewish casino owner. But I'm thinking about, you know.
To double down. Uh, he's a he's a Cherokee casino owner.
Yeah, he runs. Okay, Jay, have you have you driven through like North Texas, North Texas going up to Oklahoma at all?
I have? Yeah? I did, uh Austin, Texas to uh redacted Virginia in one sitting a few years back.
Why are you down here in Austin? But the do you have you seen the ads and the billboards for that Chalktaw casino, the Chalktaw Nation Casino in Durant.
Probably it's it's huge.
This it is like, because I drive up to rural like North Arkansas near Fayaetteville.
Come hang out, what how is it that big?
I don't know. Instead, and the thing that makes it really funny is that, like the rest of that of Chalkdaw Nation is desolate. Do you drive surd you see the like the first thing you see is the largest casino you've ever seen, and then it's just miles of these like desolate abandoned like near abandoned towns. And then you get to McAllister, which is a desolate, abandoned town with lots of riva back entire merchandise.
This is I mean, it really is just in the middle of nowhere.
Yeah. Yeah, that's the thing that's it's really funny because you'll see, like on I thirty five south southbound, You'll see ads for the Chalkdaw Casino, and I'm like, who in the right mind is going I'm pulling a UI. I have to gamble, I have to drive up four hours.
Genuinely, this is so depressing it is. Do you know when their their peak busyness is? Oh it's tax taxi trans season, you know, I mean during the week, it is Sunday evenings.
Oh man.
Shout out to all of our listeners currently at chat Chalk Talk Casino.
You're just one good way, one good day away from being a modern Monsa Musa.
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So that's the funny thing. I have auto ads on these if you don't pay for it, and apparently I don't listen to them. Literally, like seventy percent of the ads are for scammy online casinos. And I just want to say, gambling is cool. You can make it all back and use code. Jay Burton at Chumblecasino dot com.
Oh what was the what was that shirt? It was that it was like some people call it gambling, I call it.
Hope, which I think is I think that's a dosty Evsky quote. I'm not a direly share.
Yeah I'm not. I'm not addicted to gambling. I'm addicted to hope. So true. So you know, everyone that's at the slots right now, just remember your next spin. You're gonna make it big.
Well, look, you're talking to someone who, for the first time in his life in the past twenty four hours, it's one a significant amount of money gambling. And let me tell you.
You're on a higher eye.
Yeah, it'll be like this forever. It'll be.
Yeah, go put your house on black.
God, dude, honestly I might.
Uh.
Deshaun Strickland came in and really cinched in that four like parlay for me.
I will say, looking at this casino, it's setting me off because how is this zoned? There's nothing around so I think municipal wall. By the way, what would this be zoned? Is this one property that is zoned as like casino and then the rest of the surrounding is what like how well, he doesn't get this set up.
It's on it's on reservation land, so there's probably some sort of extra weird laws.
Do the Indians have zoning walls?
I don't know. Let's look at the grock. Why don't you why don't you grop that real quick? Well, I mean it's it is. It is interesting going. I mean like there's certain things or like things aren't taxed. That's why like people in New York will go to the reds to buy cigarettes and stuff like that because it's cheaper. So I've heard. I actually never have bought cigarettes, and well I've bought cigarettes in New York, but I'm not from the reservation. But yeah, it's an interesting thing. Now.
I also have another question for you, Jay, okay, because I like, I like interviewing the interviewer. Uh and while while we get some some stuff on municipal law, I want to know who are your top three favorite historical figures to read about. Not in terms of I'm inspired by them, but wow, this is so much fun to read.
These guys are a riot oh okay, hmm so hmm. Andrew Jackson, Oh yeah all time, just like top g coolest man in the world. Uh. I'm trying to think who else this is slightly amarriageing. I actually don't read a ton of history. Uh oh see, I'm realizing I'm just selecting a certain archetype.
Uh.
Guy might have to goho long.
Uh well, he is fun. He is fun to read, although he's not very good is a you.
Know, well, yeah, that's just my point. Like I wouldn't say i'd like let him watch my kids, but you know what I mean, Like He's fun to read about. And then shoot, who else? I mean, honestly trying to think of the last, and honestly, you know, I'm gonna go with another. I'm realizing I'm just naming uh deep South scotch Irish guys is uh Stonewall Jackson, I think guess or Francis Drake.
Stoneall Jackson, Stoel Jackson's great because he Foreshore was like actually probably autistic.
I actually I'm gonna throw in, uh, sir, Francis Drake is a fourth and you can just average between all of those, and that reveals an uncomfortable amount about my personality.
Uh now I'm inster Dune. What's yours? I don't think we've had this as one now now, like will be your top three?
Uh Sulah Asherbana, Paul the second, and uh free it might be Justinian at this point after that. Yeahs So he's so complex historical figure. I've ever Buddy Kalmere and Drada's up there though.
Yeah, I've got to go. I've got to go Justinian as well. Uh oh, there was one other some of the polymaths.
That was Yeah, that was a very Southern list there, Jay.
Yeah, here's the thing. I don't actually know that much about history, and.
Well that's why you should be listening to our damn podcast.
Damn straight you hit it, do a stalty, go check it out like thomis.
Why you know what, Jay, you gotta you gotta subscribe to our Patreon at the fifty dollars a tier, get to go to the one where you get to play game.
No no, no, no no. I've been getting good education from the Rome episodes on here.
Well yeah, that that. This is how I get my education on history. I'm following the Joe Rogan path of collapsing my life into a content singular I.
Bring this full circle. You know, it is very feudle like where you know? Right? Is that old four chan green text is? It's just you have local artisans and philosopher's comments speak at the court.
Me Yeah, tell me tell me science man. Why do the sky go dark at night? Yeah?
Well, here's here's the real problem. If we drill down to it. I am a I'm a literature faggot. So that's what I actually read. I'm like on a deep run of like, you know, weird Russian novels from the last twenty years. It's all been great. But the problem is it's like that's narratively helpful, but like I talk to you guys, I'm like, I don't know.
We come back on and we do it. Is this historically accurate or not? Review of every of every Hairy Turtledove all history novel.
I'd be up for it. Here's honestly, what would be both embarrassing and very funny is uh, you guys present me with historical scenarios, most of which are true, some of which are not, and I have to guess based off of my Like.
We've already we already have a whole Google doc based on this. We we're ready, well half ready, So you let us know and we'll come on.
We'll hit you with this sounds great. This is This is, by the way, guys, from a professional podcaster. This is what audience is like. Audience is like when you meander, you don't really hit any topic, particularly when you're trying to. And then you talk about podcasting as and that's mostly what it is. And that's sort of like inside baseball into the you know, inside in the mind of a you know, just a useless wastrel is really what gets people going well.
I do notice that the peons like it when Doune and I argue on podcasts, but the ones that we argue more on seem to get pretty good views.
It's just become the Jerry Springer of the classics world, throwing stuff.
It's never that supper.
But then like he didn't graduate fucking college, so like he's he's below where I am. So he dares to speak to me.
And how much student learn that? Do you have?
Uh? How well?
I have zero?
Zero? What's your tax bracket?
Oh I'm dirt poor, but I'm just below the belt. You know what. But here's the thing. Musicians like been twenty years. Everybody's job will be taken by AI and the won't be making any money, but musicians.
And the collapse of Rome municipal government was one of the only things that persisted onwards. Even when the goss and the Franks and the vandals all come marching in and doing stuff, the municipal law survives. I will have a job, you.
Know, you know who you would be like in history, you would be the Dunstan of any area that you'd be, you know, Dunstan from Anglo Saxon history.
Dude, no, no, no, no, like.
We're talking about Dunstan.
No, duncan Okay, so dust.
I'm gonna see Dunkst. Dunston checks in.
No, I've not seen Dustin the monkey whatever it's.
Dunstan checks in nice film where Orangutan goes to a hotel. It's a great so.
Uh So Dunstan was an English bishop. He was the Archbishop of Canterbury from he was he lived from nine to nine to nine eighty a d and like was just the like no funnel, loud lawyer of everyone around him. And then there was the other guy. There was Oh my god, who is the guy that Henry the second was always up in arms with? Will someone get rid of this miserable priest or whatever it is?
Uh?
Thomas Moore Cramer, it's.
It's the other one. I think it's uh man, I'm bad at history. I should not do a podcast.
Well, oh, Thomas Beckett, Thomas Beckett, okay, you would be the Thomas Beckett.
No. I just like there's unisfu. Law is wonderful and its current state is abysmal. But when things do end up collapsing and we're all excuse me, and we're all eating each other. Well, you know who's going to write the zoning laws for where you set up the chicken wing cafe. That's just human fume.
For where you set up the skull pyramid, Damns.
You can't set up a skull pyramid within a three foot setback. That just ruins the like the right of line and the sewer ease. Mins. It's a whole pain in.
The Mixed use zoning is just like where you can kill somebody.
I love mixed use zoning. Mixed use zoning is absolutely wonderful, and Americans have butchered it because of the you know, I've been picked International Property Maintenance Code. The people that put out that are just awful people. They're the reason that you can't just buy piece of property and build a house because all these local municipalities, who aren't very intelligent, will basically say, oh, look, here's this manual that gets put it every year that tells us how we should
do property codes. We're just gonna adopt that. Mind you, the local code enforcers don't have any idea. It's also not listed on the actual codebook. You have to go buy the i PMC if you want to know how you're supposed to build your damn house, and then there's a billion and one regulations that are just completely bloody pointless because someone living in Appalachia is going to have
different building requirements someone living in floody fucking Arizona. The i PMC is one of the main things destroying this country them and you can new him.
You can him.
I we got to know. I was. I was like about two seconds from just ending the show there, which honestly I might still do. Guys, where do people find you?
You can find us? Well, there's there's three. Number one. You can find the podcast at pretty much every place where you consume your podcasts. If you don't see it on your podcatcher, go and tweet at us Duo Stalty. It's at duo Stalty on Twitter, and yeah, just let it, like, let me know, let us know if you can't see the podcast there, and if you feel incredibly generous, we would love to have you on our Patreon, which is
patreon dot com slash Duo Stalty Pod. We've got three tiers with different benefits and.
Episodes, notes and some sif game on there, if you want to give us fifty bucks for some reason, yeah, yeah, platform.
If you want to do fifty dollars a month, yeah, we'll, we'll, we'll do a savy game. But yeah, I uh, thank you Jay for having us on, and you know, thank you on a deeper level for for for helping us get a little more off the ground from the previous episode.
You know, we do.
Like I it's sincerely, from the bottom of my heart, thank you because it's kind of cool that. But what what's Gary Etagarryga