Karmelo Anthony Killed Hitler w/ Kevin DeAnna: Ep. 501 - podcast episode cover

Karmelo Anthony Killed Hitler w/ Kevin DeAnna: Ep. 501

Jun 15, 20261 hr 6 min
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Speaker 1

Meaning a light man like this man letting butterfly flapping his wing big down in the forest. Man, it gonna cause the tree fall, letting five thousand miles away.

Speaker 2

Man, than nobody see it.

Speaker 1

Nobody see. You don't need no man like you followed him this story and.

Speaker 2

You got backed. Flect that that's still win.

Speaker 1

Man.

Speaker 2

Don't black and dag on the Panama man.

Speaker 1

Man, you don't matter man anyway. All right, I'm gonna be one hundred percent honest with you, guys. I ran out of time. I've got a flight leaving at five thirty tomorrow morning. It's about nine thirty when I record this, I still haven't packed. So uh, you know what a short monologue, So uh give me money. Episodes early in ad Free Axios Remote Fitness and Coaching. Here's Kevin Deanna. Thanks guys. All right, Indiana, welcome to the Jay Burden Show.

Speaker 2

How you doing man, Great to be back? Great to be back.

Speaker 1

We're here to discuss something relatively sobering, the murder of a young man. Carmelo Anthony, obviously a name that has become quite infamous in recent months, was just convicted of murder sentenced to thirty five years and while there's been a lot of analysis over the forensic details of the case, I think there's some interesting trends we can observe in the coverage. So before we get into that, Kevin, I'm curious what were your initial thoughts when this incident occurred.

It's been roughly a year now. Unfortunately this is all but a rare occurrence. Was it something that hit your timeline?

Speaker 2

Yeah, and I think it hit mine in the same way as it hit most people, which was essentially the fundraiser. I think that's why most of us know about this. I mean, unfortunately, a black on white murder is not exactly rare in this country. You have seen something about it when it first happened, But the fact that he raised about six hundred thousand dollars from blacks who seem to adopt him as a kind of real champion like

this was seen as as almost like political victory. And it's worth noting that it is precisely because of this that when Shiloh Hendrix got into her bit of trouble where she dropped a hard r on a Somali kid who stole her own child's food, this was why she was able to raise so much money. No Carmarlo Anthony, no Shiloh Hendrix. And this is the pattern that we're in now. And if I were inclined to be given to censorship, I would blame social media. It is actually

social media. But of course I actually think this is a good thing. We are actually now in a kind of tit for tat situation where every single interracial not even crime, but conflict of this sort becomes a kind of competition, especially when it comes to these fundraisers. And it was especially interesting as this thing developed where you had Austin Metcow's father initially going with the line that this has nothing to do with race. I'm going to go pray with the murderer's family, going to go to

the press conference. Shouldn't we able to be all unite, that this was a terrible thing that happened. And what's happened since he got swatted six times, he got insulted, he got chased out of the press conference, his kid has been smeared from beyond the grave as essentially a

bully and a racist, and god knows what else. So this is where we're going, and it's just going to be like this forever now, until they basically try to censor social media on the grounds of maintaining racial peace, like Singapore style.

Speaker 1

It's interesting you bring that up. Obviously, this has been the week of ethnic knife crime, and just a few days ago there's a savage attack in Belfast and African and I believe a Sudanese migrant nearly decapitated a local man purportedly don't know if this is true, a man with special needs. And what's interesting is that the local police have repeatedly instructed people not to share the video

on social media. It's not the direct censorship, of course, but when the police so telling you not to do something, we understand that is only one short step away from doing what the UK was this in Northern Ireland, I can't remember whatever n.

Speaker 2

It's Northern Ireland, so this is technically a Great Britain, technically kingdom.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I believe I've probably caused some minor up.

Speaker 2

The riots have actually just restarted just now, like as you were talking, as you made that little flub, like sixty seven people are dead and like the troubles have begun again and it's all your fault. But you know, what are you gonna go?

Speaker 1

When I start my car tomorrow, it will explode. Uh That's what I wish for every morning, But every morning the car just starts and I'm disappointed again. Yeah, you really need to get on the you really need to start antagonizing the Fenians and maybe someone.

Speaker 2

Will uh make your wish.

Speaker 1

But in all seriousness of course, one, uh, god speed to the guys over there, if I can say that. And two we see exactly that inclination. The issue is not the issue, it's your reaction to it. And I think bringing up Shiloh Hendrix in relation to this was very interesting because, I mean, you can look at the OJ Simpson trial any other of these kind of large racialized moments and see that Black America looks as it looks at itself as a nation within a nation, right,

they view themselves as being on a team. I wasn't alive, but I've been told by reliable sources that during the nineties there was a symbol for this, the crown. You'd put a crown in your car to signal that you were one of the brothers, the idea being hopefully no

one breaks in. Did it work? Probably not. I know the FBI statistics as well as you do, but you get the idea there's an ethnic solidarity there, and the Shiloh Hendrix case particularly interesting because it's one of the first times where white ethnic solidarity, at least in my life, hit the mainstream. One of the kind of secondary stories in the Shiloh Hendrix affair was all of the normal American public officials getting in trouble for donating to this case.

Volunteer firemen, police officers, things like that. Look, I get it, you know, edgy right wing politics are more popular than they've ever been. But the amount of money she raised means that hit the mainstream, that got out of our little corner. Now it bears saying. I believe she is still going through court troubles. I think her trial is scheduled very soon. But point is, I think it feels as if this information has sort of escaped the CD

quarters of the Internet. There's a growing realization that politics is a team sport, oftentimes along to be honest racial lines. So, if I can returning to this case, a couple of things stuck out to me, which is one we see information control right from the very beginning. The foot whether the security camera footage or the body cam footage has

not been revealed to the public. We haven't seen it yet, which noticers tend to assume that means it looks bad, means it looks really bad for the defendant.

Speaker 2

Now you mention the.

Speaker 1

Princely sum, this kid's family raised interesting biographical detail. I think they had already collected a lot of money from a major legal settlement before, so it seems to be sort of the family business, if you will. But pretty quickly analysts started to point out that this kid was probably screwed just due to the fact that his parents did not seem particularly interested in helping him out here. Did you see the same coverage I did on that issue.

Speaker 2

Yeah, And it's worth noting he ended up having to rely on a quarter pointed attorney, which may explain why the defense was so incompetent. I mean, he had his own witnesses turning on him during this trial. It was not going to be a particularly close verdict, which of course makes the reaction of various Black Court analysts on TV and Black House side the courtroom all the more extraordinary.

This was not a marginal case. There was more sincere guilt that, like I possess over OJ Simpson than I did about this one, well.

Speaker 1

Right, because at least in OJ's case, regardless of if he did it or not, the prosecution messed up.

Speaker 2

They'd loved ton't do things exactly right. I mean you genuinely yeah, yeah, exactly the bullshit theory. But like here, no, and when your own witnesses are saying, yeah, he started it. Yeah, Before when I said something, that was because I screwed up and didn't see the surveillance footage correctly. What I'm referring to is one of the witnesses said that he was basically surrounded by a white mob. You can see

why he might think that. What the witness failed to recognize is that he was referring to surveillance video where this was after the sabbing, when of course everybody runs over to see what had just happened. It's a pretty big change. And this just kind of kept happening over and over again, with the defense falling into traps that nobody had actually set for them. It was a catastrophe

for the Defense the entire time. But of course, no blacks, and not even former congresswomen or outgoing Congresswoman Jasmine Crockets, seem to care.

Speaker 1

Sidebar. I will say, as an avid watcher of the kind of low rent, corrupt politicians, my stable of favorite politicians has been devastated by recent leaders. We lost Lorie Lightfoot, now we lost Jasmine Crockett. I might actually have to pay attention to politic legitimately if we don't elect more

comedically corrupt black women into positions of power. But setting that aside, another interesting element in the coverage is a few weeks ago there was media coverage that said that there were no black jurors, that they had all been pulled out of the selection pool. I think that's interesting for a couple reasons. One, we have this idea of a jury of your peers, right who who represents you,

who can judge your conduct? And we on the right have pointed out for quite a long time there's a heavy ethnic component to this that white juries are generally speaking pretty fair. They tend to treat people the same regardless of their racial background, and this is not true along other lines. For instance, black jurors tend to convict white defendants at a much higher rate, whereas they tend to let people off of their own race at a much higher rate.

Speaker 2

And Okay.

Speaker 1

That meme, if you will, was popularized in our circles. But at the point where national media is saying, oh, this guy's screwed. He can't depend on that, he doesn't have that going for him, it's sort of an interesting thing. It indicates that, however much people want to deny it, all of these truths you and I are telling, everyone already knows, they're just sort of ashamed to admit it. Right, All politics are identity politics. Many people are saying it.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Someone even created a show called it right some guy, Yeah, some daego, though I don't watch it on white performers, and I think that's an interesting element to this. You and I were speaking before we went live, and you had brought up the point that this may well be the avenue for appeal. He may argue I was convicted by a non representative jury by people who aren't like me. You had a specific example you brought up.

Speaker 2

Right in twenty twenty one, there was a man named Gilbert in Tennessee, a black man who was convicted, I believe, of aggravated assault, and he was actually granted a new trial by a Tennessee Court of appeals and the grounds for that was that it was an all white jury and that there were Confederate symbols as you might expect in a Tennessee courtroom, and so therefore he didn't get a fair trial. Now a little different in this case, because there were no blacks on the jury. However, we

are told that there were minorities on the jury. There's no blacks. This I got from a Daily Caller article about jury selection. It's one of these things though, where you could see that being grounds. I mean, you certainly could imagine someone like certainly Kent DEJ. Brown Jackson being amenable to this argument that, oh, well, there's no blacks on the jury, how could he get a fair trial?

And this is one of those things where we all know the score and we all have to lie to ourselves and everybody else when we have to do our jobs. If you've ever worked on a campaign, what is a campaign? The entire purpose of the campaign is to turn out the demographics that you know we're going to vote for you, and try to suppress the demographics that you know are not going to vote for you. Ninety nine percent of

the time it's about race. And if you look at jury selection, you are not allowed to say I don't want blacks on the jury, obviously, but it's essentially all these workarounds to get the demographics that you want, and the whole point of being an attorney, the whole point of being a specialist in jury selection particularly, is to know how to get the demographic turnout that you want on a jury. I mean, what is a jury other

than a small legislature. So this is one of these things where we talk about a jury of your peers. Why do we use the term fears that has a very specific meaning Back in England during the Middle Ages or during the time when the aristocracy really meant something you could appeal to essentially be judge only by members of your class. And so when we say a jury of your peers, if you are a white professional man, you're going to want to be judged by white professional men.

And if you don't, now you're at the basically the whims of a group that has far more racial tribalism and far more collective power than your group does, because your group doesn't really exist. You're just dealing with a bunch of individuals.

Speaker 1

I think it's particularly interesting when we examine the defense the idea that this was a case of self defense. The argument you saw from the protesters surrounding the courthouse, which I realized are not exactly August political theorists. It's the idea that well, he said repeatedly, if you touch me, I'll kill you. Austin Metcalff touched him, he was killed. Therefore it's self defense. And we can laugh about that because it isn't particularly coherent. That's not what that means.

But what we're seeing is a radically different cultural idea. Now some of it is just pure ethnic chauvinism, right that no matter what the defense would be, there would be people that would pairrot it because he's one of ours, right, simple team sports. But that's a major cultural breakdown. The idea of self defense, at least in an English common law sense, is a deeply cultural idea, ironically enough, not

a write you have in England anymore. But there's a tradition, there's a general social understanding of what that means, what the barriers are. Well, different cultures have different assumptions, and when you take a law designed for one culture export it to another, as we learned in Afghanistan, as we've learned in every one of these foolish nation building projects. It falls apart. It's the same thing here as halfway

across the world. A constitution, a set of laws, is an expression of a people, and when that people changes, it falls apart. It's exactly the same reason why the constitutional conservatives are wrong, or at least half wrong. They're not wrong that the constitution is a particularly pleasant set of laws to live under. That if we could wave a magic wand and turn our country back to seventeen eighty nine, it would be a lot better. Well, that's true,

But the problem is that constitution reflected a culture. It reflected a people, and that people doesn't exist in the same way it did. Then you need both one and the other. Law absent cultural expression. I mean, it's just a piece of paper. Look at Liberia. They have the same constitution we do and a remarkably different expression.

Speaker 2

We should look at Liberia. I feel like Liberia could hold the answer to a lot of these problems that we're talking about, all right.

Speaker 1

I mean, I'm willing to admit that importing child soldiers and turning them loose, yeah, I.

Speaker 2

Was thinking I was thinking more of exports than imports. But you know, if you want to.

Speaker 1

Some have had this idea before, some have expressed it.

Speaker 2

I admire Marcus Harvey for a reason.

Speaker 1

It's it's interesting as well because I joked earlier that this has been the week of melodated knife crime, and it is of course a joke, but it is true. And in both the case of Henry Novak who was killed by a Sikh, and also the Sudanese man who nearly sawed some random irishman's head off, the reaction has

been very telling. We see this exact same tribalism building, where on one side the Sikh community is almost reflexively coming to the defense of the murder of Novak, hiding the weapon right obfuscating the situation from the police issuing a technical condemnation of the murder, but again only slightly.

And the coverage from much of the media has been the old Norm MacDonald joke when he said, imagine if Isis were to detonate a nuke in downtown Los Angeles, imagine the bashlac to peaceful Muslims.

Speaker 2

And that was a joke.

Speaker 1

He was clever for saying it, but fifteen years on it sort of rings hollow. It's not funny anymore. There are people dead and the media seemingly incredibly ethnically hostile. Seemingly it's not, it's just obvious naked ethnic hatred for the native population. See what I'm getting at, Kevin.

Speaker 2

Yeah, And it's worse than that in some ways, because what do you have. Look at the response, let's say England, just because it's the obvious example. In the immediate aftermath of what happened in Belfast, and that should be noted, people were talking about like riots and oh Belfastest and flames and everything else, and of course everybody has an

interest in exaggerating this. It's actually fairly localized. I mean, you had some property instruction, but even by the standards of Northern Irish history, not much to write home about it. I mean, I don't think anybody's going to care in a couple of weeks. But the immediate source of blame was not even so much the rioters but Elon Musk, because they said no Elon Musk showed this video, talked about it. Therefore, this is a problem here. Starmer was

talking about this from the Florida Parliament. The Liberal Dems were talking about this, saying, I think their party leader was saying they need to do something about this. The Labor Party leader was also saying something about this. They are going to use this to try to push more censorship. Earlier, you mentioned that police officer from Northern Ireland. I encourage the audience to actually find that on YouTube. The comments

are disabled, but you find that guy's speech. And what you'll find and probably be viscerally disgusted by, as I was, is this kind of therapeutic language from the police officer. Why shouldn't you show the video? Well, because it could cause trauma and risk to the victims. I think we're already past the point where risk and trauma has already been given to this particular victim who almost had his

head sought off, and they always he falls back. You said it, I think six times during the course of the video, this phrase that you see everywhere, and you see it throughout the Western world, and it's very ominous and I want people to pay attention to it. Our communities. It's never my fellow citizens, it's never my kinsman, God knows, it's never even my fellow subjects. From a Northern Irish perspective, it's always our communities. We need to ensure the safety

of our communities. Well, what does that mean. It's an implicit admission that there's not actually a people, and they're certainly not a people that we are all a part of. But we have different communities, We have different groups that all live cheek by jel and they don't particularly like each other. And the job of the government is to kind of take money from the productive and spread it around a little bit and hopefully they won't kill each other.

We get something out of this because diversity is our strength. What that strength actually constitutes nobody is really sure. But the purpose of government is to essentially be the head arbitrator between these different factions. And part of that means controlling speech. Part of that means not letting people find out about what's really going on. And here's the problem. Woker Moore correct than the mainstream right. They're not wrong. They're not wrong that there would have been no reaction

had we not gotten that video. They're not wrong in say, not releasing the Austin Metcalf murder video, that there would be a stronger reaction if that video was released. Should be noted that apparently some jurors were crying when that video was shown in CORP. It's so harrowing. The issue is that you actually can force a social consensus if

you are able to control the low of information. This is why even people who are pretty old like me express frustration with the boomers, because the boomers are so wedded to this idea that what the TV tells me must be true, that there is this authority, that there are these institutions that we can trust. Millennials don't believe that.

Certainly gen Z does not believe that Jen Alpha is definitely not going to believe that what's on the media and what's aislop and what's completely made up, all of that is just totally indistinguishable. Now, there are costs to living in a culture where there's no guide for what

is true and what is not. Certainly, if we look at the state of online debate with just random conspiracies that we know not to be true and people saying obviously untrue things for clickbait, we understand the cost of it. But we have to weigh that against in this uncontrolled

information environment, we can actually find out what's going on. Like, there's a lot of garbage you have to dig through, But if you dig hard enough, you can find stuff like this and you can actually see what's going on, and that does destabilize a system that is leading to our genocide. I mean, let us call it for what it is. It's not going to be pretty, and the information environment is just going to grow more chaotic in

the days ahead. But what is the alternative? Because if we go back to the way that the mainstream media used to be, and clearly the kind of government media partnership that cure Starmar is trying to take the United Kingdom back to, there's really no way out because you could very easily imagine a scenario where this video never sees the light of day, and then where are we well?

Speaker 1

And to that point, it's interesting that you and I, Kevin, are in sort of an odd position because on one hand, we have this desire for tradition, this desire for a people with a myth that explains who we are, the story we tell ourselves about ourselves, that creates a culture.

Speaker 2

We want that.

Speaker 1

But on the other hand, we're also in this position of critiquing and tearing down a sort of horrible, like moribund civic myth, right, that narrative that shoved us into this horrible reality. We can debate exactly what that is, where it came from, but we're sort of in this position of both creating and destroying one at the same time. So on one hand, I think about this with the media ecosystem, that if you and I lived in a cohesive society, the internet would be the worst thing ever. Right,

It's clearly it's deranging people. It neutralizes the ability to form a cultural cohesion. We even maybe that in our own circles it nuked. It nukes romantic relationships for one. I mean this, like I've always said, I mean, this was the last chopper out of non I mean, there's no friggin way when you look at the dating market now and and people look at gen z and everything else, and you know, it's very easy to joke about it and be like, oh, look at what's going on with this.

It's like, okay, well, if the foundation of the country is the family, and nobody's ever going to be able to form a stable family ever, again, now what do we do? Oh one hundred percent. I mean it's a silly example, and there are a lot of you know, social conservatives that you love to try it out arguments against porn, but like, uh, look at how many scripts for rectile dysfunction medication they're writing for guys under thirty and like, okay, some of that's diet. I would argue

that's another symptom of the cause we're talking about. But also being exposed to literally everything and anything from age eight to the point where you're jaded and sick of it all by about age twenty seven. That's not good

for a society. But at the same time, right, this incredible ecosystem, this erosion of narrative has from a certain perspective, it's loosened to the rates, right at least enough one that you and I can support ourselves, at least for now, we haven't been thrown in a gulag or you know, forced to basically live in a compound in woods.

Speaker 2

But also speak for yourself.

Speaker 1

Yeah, fair, fair, But at the same time, you're right, that lets us cut through the narrative. And it seems that our enemies have realized that, at least in Europe, they've realized that that is a huge liability. James Burnham wrote The Managerial Revolution pre World War Two, talking about this new system where ownership and control were separated. Obviously in an economic sense, you know, the way that a company is run is not the same way it was

run pre FDR. But also in a political sense, our leaders functionally are managers, and the relationship you're describing where our leaders function as the referees between sort of extremely combative units, sort of an atomized mass of different people with no real ties together. If Burnham had been writing now, he may well have the human resources revolution, right, the idea that basically we live in an hr state and the function of the government is well to make sure

that you know, no one starts a fight in the breakroom. Effect, the state is an economic engine, right.

Speaker 2

I think Paul Gottfried, I don't mean interrupt, but just the term that comes find Paul Godfried, I think, calls it the managerial therapeutic state. That's essentially I mean. He also refers to it in his book Multiculturalism and the Politics of Guilt, which I encourage everybody to read because it gets to the core of why we're dealing with

a lot of things we're dealing with. He called it towards a secular theocricy, and if you think of journalists, if you think of academics, if you think of hr in some ways, if you think of what is the clergy of today, who are the people who actually determine what is moral and what is not, who is allowed

to have a hearing, and who is a heretic. It's basically those people and even the actual clergy are much more concerned with fitting in academia and journalism in terms of those narratives than what somebody in their own church tradition said half a millennium ago.

Speaker 1

Well, certainly, and I mean to that point, there's a reason I'm sort of mixing religious and political metaphor here. Dave Green, a thinker who's incredibly impactful on my thought, has long said one that Logar was completely correct. Not to go back into forty k autism, but the fact we talk about really for all one thing, but this is fundamentally a war of belief. We no longer share enough to argue within the same frame. So look at

the protesters outside Carmelo Anthony's trial. They are arguing effectively that it's okay to kill someone if they don't look like you, which, okay, we can say beast mode based whatever, but in all seriousness that is a stark departure from the American Western tradition. We have not historically thought that at least an illegal context. Those are two completely separate frames. Jasmine Crockett said, of course, I don't think this was an offensive weapon. The blade was quote only three and

a half inches long, arguing that somehow that justifies killing someone. Again, some of this is just pure reactive ethnic politics. Are you an ant from my hill or an ant from another one? On that level, there's not a lot of thought to it. But again we are seeing two different frames, completely different understandings of the world. And when we look at, as you've said, this sort of therapeutic mindset towards politics, the idea that there is no real connection between man

and culture, we are simply interchangeable economic widgets. You can move a man from one country to another, and a man is a man is a man, so who cares doesn't matter. And clearly one that is an idea that you and I do not share any framing with. We can't reason or logic our way to some sort of synthesis between that position and ours. But also it's manifestly untrue, clearly.

Speaker 2

And they don't believe it. Either they don't believe it either. I mean, there are a number of points here. One is we're told two things at once all the time. I mean I hate using Orwellian right. I mean, every time somebody says that, you just want to rip your own head off because it's like, think of a better metaphor. But as Christopher Hitchins said when he visited North Korea, like your mind just automatically goes back to nineteen eighty

four sometimes just because it's too perfect. Think of the concept of doublethink, because you simultaneously must believe, and you must believe this that wherever people go, they are essentially the same. And then if you have good laws and human rights, and essentially that's what it is to be in democracy. You have a bundle of rights, as one scholar put it, and you get to kind of carry them around wherever you go. And that's what it is to be a citizen. You have to believe that you

can go anywhere and be productive. But at the same time, non whites are also racialized by these oppressive cultures, and therefore when it comes to the way the law treats them, they have to be treated as members of a group, not as individuals, and the law has to be very careful and how it deals with these individuals, and politicians need to liaison with community leaders and make sure that

these different groups are able to get along. Of course, there is one great exception, which is where are the white community leaders. British police, for example, have this. This is now an institutional role where they have official liaisons. So when you had this unrest recently with these Muslim neighborhoods, they actually went in there and they would meet with the leaders of mosques and various community leaders who have a quasi paramilitary role now and basically say, look, this

is what we're going to do. You need to make sure your guys don't do this. We will let you do this and everything else, and they essentially do a kind of peace settlement the way occupying American troops might do with like a village in Iraq. After negotiating with the elders, there's nobody from the white community who gets to work with the liaison. There is no white community leader. You're just kind of on your own. You're just kind

of an individual. And the underlying assumption is that we either don't need this because there's the sort of liberal white supremacy that's still there and lurks in everybody's head or and maybe even at the same time, they don't deserve it because they're scum. They're the problem, and we need to actually suppress these people. Think of another thing. If you look at these riots in Belfast, it's an obvious point, but because we're sort of like the fish

swimming in water, we don't recognize it. It's worth bringing up. Isn't it incredible that nobody ever says, look at the root causes of this, look at the grievances. Shouldn't these people be getting more money for programs? Isn't it an economic thing? Isn't this the cry of the unheard. Nonviolence was called white supremacy if you were called during the twenty twenty elections. Now they're saying it needs to absolutely

be crushed. Now they're not saying, well, the oppressed can use whatever tactics they need to for their own liberation. And it is actually classist and supremacist to say that nonviolence is bad or you know, given that what we're talking about are basically natives using violence to drive out foreigners that they feel are occupying them. One is reminded of the tweet, what did you think decolonization would look like? Vibes Papers essays.

Speaker 1

To further that point, Kevin, it really drives home how much of politics is basically fake. And when I say that, I don't mean that laws don't create realities. Obviously you and I living in Virginia are painfully aware of that fact. Politics will make its presence known. But this whole liberal conception of neutral institutions, of a marketplace of ideas, where people debate, they have their minds changed, they strive for some sort of consistent worldview. I mean, to be about it, it's horshit.

Speaker 2

Nobody believes it. Sam Francis was saying twenty years ago. Nobody believes in liberalism as a coherent ideology. No one has taken it seriously in decades. It's not a thing.

And yet, just like we talk about a stuck culture in terms of pop culture, it's almost like how you have a stuck political philosopher when we just keep recycling these cliches over and over and over again, and nobody believes in any of it, even the sorts of things that distinguished liberalism, things like freedom of speech as a

foundational right, that is just gone. It's already gone in Britain, it's already gone in continental Europe, and of course if the Democrats get back in, it'll be gone in America too. But here's the thing, and this is the interesting thing about it. They'll get rid of it, and then in the next breath they'll say, but we have freedom of speech, and they'll seem to actually believe it. And you remember when JD.

Speaker 1

Vance went over to Britain and basically said, hey, stop locking people up, give them freedom of speech, and Kers Starmer said, we have freedom of speech with no and there's seemingly no awareness in his head.

Speaker 2

And I think that's because, and I hate to be simplistic and crude about it, but we're essentially, again to cite Paul Gottfried, we're in kind of the anti fascist state post nineteen forty five. And so the only thing that I think most people think of when they think of free speech is the freedom to basically offend Christian morality and be degenerated or something to show them that

what for, or to oppose authoritarianism. But authoritarianism has to literally mean a militaristic guy in a uniform ordering people to march around. If it's like a fat woman ordering people like when their businesses can open, or what they're allowed to say in the workplace, that's not authoritarianism, that's

actually freedom, that's actually defending our democracy. And so we just keep hearing these same cliches over and over again, even though the substance has been gone for at this point what a century, and there seems to be no indication that people are going to change it up anytime soon.

It's just this endless stuck pop culture, governmental culture, legal culture going forward forever and regardless, so the facts on the ground, nobody is going to change their mind, because when it comes to the people who rule us, they garner their status from the credentials given by these institutions. And so if you attack those institutions and you say what you are teaching us is wrong, you're essentially stripping

these people of their identity. You're stripping them of their sense of status and of worth, and they'd rather die than give that up, or at least rather we die.

Speaker 1

We were speaking earlier about the myths that bind these sort of civilizational narratives, and again referenced Paul Gottfried, for now, what must be the tenth time in this podcast. But anti fascism is functionally the religion of our empire correct, much more so than Christianity. I mean, just look at the fact that, yeah, that Bonhoeffer has, in a weird way become a Christian saint, at least for Protestants. There's a movie coming out about him. It may have already

come out. It may surprise you, Kevin, I was not really waiting in line to see a Bonheffer movie whatever in the past.

Speaker 2

Wasn't he not even really a Christian in the sense of orthodox belief.

Speaker 1

He didn't believe in the divinity of Christ, which, look, I realize that used to be pretty important.

Speaker 2

I mean, but I mean that again, neither did Martin Luther King, so exactly.

Speaker 1

You know, again, I'm no theologian, but I figured that was kind of like a top light issue. But you know what, it turns out he hated Hitler, so I guess he's good enough. But in the same way that the Internet has acted as a cultural acid that has both burned us and freed us, I wonder if we will see a similar dynamic with the death of the

baby boomers. There's a lot of anticipation for that moment among younger people, motivated by economic concerns, frustrations around the dynamic you spoke about with believing everything on the TV. But fundamentally boomers are the only people who really believe in America anymore, on both the right and the left. And you see this even in the No King's protests, which tend to be an older crowd. And they're gay, and they're cringe and they're embarrassing, but they're identifiably post

war American. They feel like what a seventy year old would do if they were trying to live out their twenties again fighting the man, And of course it's goofy, but look at their children, both literal and ideological, the sort of pro Palestine rallies, the Larraza riots from Los Angeles. Okay, we can argue our sympathies with those positions relative to the No Kings movement, that's not what we're talking about,

but they're identifiably different. We're seeing a breakdown in that civic religion, and just like the Internet, there's an advantage with that, certainly that many of the sort of cultural chains we've been bound by are weakening.

Speaker 2

But also.

Speaker 1

Just like our culture got eaten in a sort of pop culture sense with the Internet and other things that dating culture got eaten, well, America is kind of getting ethan. We don't have a myth to take the place of the post war consensus. No one's really settled on what comes next.

Speaker 2

Right right, and we The horrifying thing is at some point we're probably going to miss the boomers because they're able to create something functional. I mean this in an economic way. In some senses, some people have pointed out there are all these like vast systems of infrastructure that nobody knows how they work anymore, and the only thing keeping it going is like some sixty eight year old guy living in Des Moines who hasn't like left his

garage in ten years. I mean, like there are lots of things that they're still keeping it together because they have the old school knowledge that never got passed on. Partially their fault, but they're the ones that have it, but also because they're the ones who still believe in responsibility to the system as such, even the liberals believe in that. To some sense, what I think is happening is we are going to see the end of the

left and the birth of many rights. I mean, one of the things that I always say is that everybody's a blood and soil nationalist for the people they actually like. Now, to some extent, you could say that's a bit of an exaggeration. When you look at people in mostly white states in this country, the way liberals behave in these areas, you could say, Okay, well, they're blood soil nationalists when

it comes to their neighborhoods or something like that. Fine, maybe, but it's not quite the same thing, right, But once you have a majority non white America, which we continue to move forward despite some of the demographic changes that the Trump administration has been able to do. When you see these anti ice protests in Los Angeles, when you see the way the Palestine flag is used in England, it's not even really about Palestine so much as an

expression of territorial ownership over parts of England. When you see the way that the Mexican president talks about having sovereignty over the forty million Mexicans who live in this country, and how they are the ones who made America great and we apparently did not. None of these are really

leftist movements. They're all essentially ultra right movements for their own kind, and white people are sort of left out of this because we basically have this cultural baked in assumption that well, no matter what happens, we're all basically going to stay in charge in some way. Like, Yeah, there are these colorful little neighborhoods, but they're sort of like Chinatown. You can go to them once in a while. Maybe they affect politics on the margins, but it's not

fundamentally their country. We're still going to determine how it works. That is just not true anymore. That is what really

goes with the boomers. And as a result, America is going to become far less high trust than even it is now, far more dysfunctional, far poor, far less competent, and you're going to see a lot more of these cases that you see cropping up in government all the time, where you see people just giving away military or industrial secrets to foreign powers, or just not doing their job, or engaging in this kind of brazen corruption that just

wouldn't have occurred to even a liberal boomer forty years ago, just because that's not the kind of thing that you do. And in that chaos, there's going to be a lot of opportunity, but make no mistake, we are still the population that has the lowest ethnocentrism, and therefore, unless we develop it very quickly, we're just going to get eaten.

Speaker 1

An example that springs to mind is sort of a I guess a rough analog to how we started the conversation. Do you remember what the judge in the Kyle Rittenhouse case looked like?

Speaker 2

Exactly? That's exactly what I'm talking about. I mean, I was talking to somebody about who had been through some various legal adventures, and we were talking kind of a vanguard activist and everything else, but he had been through it, and we were talking about like, well, you know, given like your stance and everything else, what do you think

about elections and this sort of thing? And he said, look, you know, it's one thing to say what politics doesn't matter and this party's compromise and there's nothing we can do and everything else. But here's the thing. If you're dragged before a judge, you better hope to god it is a white guy appointed by the Republicans, because then the law still might matter the other side if they screw up some filing, if they get evidence the wrong way.

If they do something wrong, he might just let you go like the law still means something as such, you get brought before one of these Star Wars judges, you might as well not even show up. You'd probably be better off just fleeing the country. There is quite literally no hope. There is nothing you can do because in the rest of the world, that is how government works, that's how the law works. It's essentially just a weapon that you use on behalf of your group. And that

is the world that we are moving toward. And if you look at a lot of the judges that Joe Biden appointed, I mean a staggering number of them were black females. I mean, I'll put it to you directly, regardless of what you did or didn't do, if you got dragged before a black female judge, you already know you're cooked. It doesn't matter what the facts are.

Speaker 1

Well, I think we've all seen this happen in the workplace where you see your boss and you already know how it's going to go, how you're going to be treated, what the power dynamic is going to be like. And okay, you know, if you're a particularly liberal person, you may sort of whip yourself over that conclusion, but you're not wrong. Again, we see the same dynamic. Everyone understands this. It's just well,

do you want to say it or not? I mean again, when we're talking about this question of does politics matter, I think that, especially on the Internet, it's easy to adopt a certain tactical nihilism. I don't care. It won't affect me, but to your point, well, it does affect you. Your life will change, particularly in a time of crisis. The medical system is a great example, right, Sometimes you don't get to choose when you interact with it. It

would enforce itself upon you. If you get in a car accident, you end up at the er, even if you're unconscious. And a DEI doctor from Howard University, well, guess what, you might not make it.

Speaker 2

Similarly in Indian Judge that happened the or Indian Judge Indian doctor that happened the other day where they they hooked up the heart backwards, then they put it in the wrong way and almost killed this person. And of course then a real doctor came in there. I was like, oh, you can't do that and put it back. And it's just this is what just happened. I mean, god knows, you see only these cases that come out of the

NHS and everything like that. I would say even more than the medical system, I mean, the legal system is really where you encounterpower. Because you can say I'm not going to get involved in politics, I'm not going to run for office, I'm not going to touch any of this. And yeah, you can avoid a lot of trouble if you say, like, look, I don't want to work with a compromise party because it's just going to bring me trouble. You're fundamentally right, like it is going to bring you trouble.

Your life will be less stressful if you don't do that kind of thing. But that doesn't mean you're going to remain isolated from the legal system. There are all sorts of reasons you might get dragged into that, and once you're in front of those judges, it's going to matter quite a bit whether it was a Republican or a Democrat who appointed that person.

Speaker 1

Well, to go back to the boomers, right, one of the great lines from the protest movement was you don't care about the war, but the war cares about you. Politics doesn't particularly take your consent into the picture, it will happen. Power will make itself known. Obviously on the most basic level, with the sort of an arco tyranny that Sam Francis talked about that say what you will. Okay, you know you and I are both physically fit men

were not exactly prime targets. But there's a material difference between living in a fairly rural part of our.

Speaker 2

State and.

Speaker 1

More enriched areas. Right, that can make itself known. I mean again, Metcalf was.

Speaker 2

In pretty good shape, and what good did it do?

Speaker 1

The exactly right And I understand the instinct right, the drive for purity, the drive to have something uncompromised. I sympathize with that. But on a very basic level, Kevin, when we look at the demographic trends, the consequences for losing even on a small local level, I don't know if we have the luxury of purity anymore, at least in a political sense. I don't think we have the luxury of setting it out waiting for the perfect opportunity

to arise. Because even simply if we adopt this sort of Ben Garrison kind of boomer Tard Maga mindset, if you were only that far down the rabbit hole. You understand that when things go blue, it sticks, they don't like to lose. They will engineer the procedure so that they don't really have to be a real political party. I mean, look at what's happened in La Yes, exactly right, exactly that you will not be afforded a position, at

least easily through traditional means. I'll put that caveat on it to win that ground back, and that is uncomfortable in certain instances. Right there are positions where I really don't like xyz figure a failed governor in win some Earl sears a particularly relevant example. But nonetheless, politics has become existential, and one of the frustrations I think that many people feel with the boomers is that they grew up, they formed their political understanding in an era where politics

was not existential. It didn't seem like it mattered that much because we still had a cohesive culture.

Speaker 2

We have an ethnic.

Speaker 1

Majority, we had a common understanding of how people are to act, and certainly there were radically different expressions of that. I'm not trying to pretend that the past was a sort of you know, a sort of halcyon age of political good feelings, not at all.

Speaker 2

But to say, as.

Speaker 1

Politics becomes more and more nakedly identitarian, well we start to enter the Schmidian state of politics, where those two frames, those two mutually contradictory understandings of the world, they will not and cannot coexist, right.

Speaker 2

I mean, if you look at Vietnam, the one thing I I would push back a little bit was when they said, like, well, it didn't have the same high stakes. I mean, you did have Vietnam, but it should be noted that, of course, who are the people who are most identified with the resistance of that war was precisely the people who were going to college and therefore didn't have to worry about the draft as much. And also a lot of that went away once they got rid

of the draft entirely. If you look at what was going on in the seventies, late sixties, early seventies, we're all familiar with the book Days of Rage. I mean, you had a level of political violence that is far beyond anything we can even imagine in the America of today. But I don't think that's because America is less divided today. I think America is more divided. It's just that we almost don't have the courage to actually fight in the way people did even a couple generations ago. It's all

kind of a game of illusions. It's a game of media. We wield power indirectly. Nobody's planting bombs instead, people are getting unqualified people appointed to be district attorney and then locking them up in jail for thirty years under the

guise of process. And in a way, it's far more difficult to sort of find your way through this because what's really remarkable, and this is the primary characteristic of power in our age, is that the system, the institutions, the way things are done has not changed very much on the surface. American constitution still applies. Even if you look at an antaricho tyranny nightmare like the United Kingdom, the king is quite literally still on his throne. The

British constitution in some way still functions. All the old forms are there, albeit with a couple changes, like the way they got rid of that traditional peers in the House of Lords and that kind of thing. But you could be forgiven if you are a World War two vet living out your last years and saying, yeah, Britain is still here. There will always be in England, and yet we understand it's a complete one to eighty in

substance for what existed before. I think what really distinguishes, I would say millennials and younger from the Boomers is that the Boomers really confuse the form with the thing itself. If you are still appealing to the Constitution, if the the formal rituals of process are still being obeyed, then fundamentally nothing has really changed, regardless of what race the judge is, regardless of whether the district attorney is a communist to says that we should get rid of the

police and that kind of thing. The process will still work, You can still expect justice. Everything is going to be fine. I think younger people understand that's just not true at all, that power moves through institutions, and that the fundamental error of our founders, although one I think they can be forgiven for because how could they have anticipated this sort of thing. Is this idea that institutions can actually regulate the flow of power and the competition for power, when

that is not true. Its networks, it's tribes, it's ethnic groups. That is the way power is exercised, and that goes through institutions and even the barrier between what constitutes the government and the private sector these days, that's almost irrelevant.

Speaker 1

Well, I mean, to sort of paraphrase Nietzsche, God is dead and we have killed the old civic religion. No one believes in it anymore. That old sort of cohesive fabric is well and truly gone. In both your in my life, the temple was empty, there were no miracles, the God was dead. It was sort of this rote sort of set of civic religious rights that everyone went through. And once that's done, well, that's well and truly done. It's over. There's no way to bring the magic back

to repair this. And I think that that's what makes Trump's kind of trying to do right. I mean, Trump in the end is a boomer oh one hundred percent, and the deep irony about that and maybe sort of a of sort of just Diddy in parallel here, not looking to defend anyone, but in striving to return, he has made it impossible to return. He's well and truly

killed it. Like look, right, I'm not looking to drag this into a discussion about Israel and anti Semitism, but in that state religion of anti fascism, What is the central of what is the crucifixion exactly? And that has really in the Trump presidency been well and truly desacralized.

It is fully, at least for people under a certain age, out of the realm of the sacred, down to the point where you have And this is a stupid example, but UFC champion Sean Strickland, a professional athlete, joking about this, right, editing the people he's beefing with, giving them curls in a prominent nose. And Okay, that's stupid, that doesn't matter. But even for an edgy figure, he's not getting demolished

for this. He's not getting dragged through the mud. The general consensus is it's a bit edgy, but it's funny. It entered the realm of comedy. I mean, Dad died in the Holly and all that kind of thing. I mean, you see these sorts of jokes and songs and everything else everywhere. I mean, the question becomes, though, I mean that not to get into the whole debate, tired debate

over Third worldism and whatever else. The question is, is the Jewish or Israeli exemption to anti fascism being revoked because as I'm sure we don't need to go over I mean, the left wing case against Israel is not that, oh they're chosen and special, and then you know there's this complicated thing around it. It's that, no, it's actually just another white settler colonial state and they're behaving like

fascist and this is bad that they have. Essentially net and Yahoo is a Nazi, So we still have the same religion. It's just you don't get an exception to that.

Speaker 2

Now in some ways, that religion is still it's still there, it's still being reinforced in some ways. It reminds me of the way Russia tries to justify its attack on Ukraine. What is the problem with Ukraine. It's governed by a Nazi regime. Western Europe is governed by a Nazi regime. This is the Great Patriotic War all over again. We are still trapped in the long twentieth century. We are still refighting World War Two over and over again. But

you can see the other side of it. I mean, even President Trump talks about this, talks in this way, talks about like this World War II style narrative. Nobody is going to think about World War Two with anything other than a war that happened in the past, and insofar as people take a giant lesson from it now, even something like anti fascism, it means something subtly different than what it meant to the people who fought it and the generations that came afterward. I think it's now

going to be fought basically on racial lines. And now, of course you would expect me to say that, right, it's kind of my job. But this is also how I think it's playing out in terms of where the coalitions are. We don't really talk about totalitarianism anymore. If you notice, nobody really talks about, like, well, the problem with Nazism was really, in some way it's the same as communism. This is a very boomer thing to say, because it was restricting human freedom and government was overwhelming

and restricted what people could think and what they could say. Now, pretty much every liberal says that the government should actually tell you what you should think and what you should say, and that is actually a criminal offense if you think or say the wrong things. So we don't really talk about totalitarianism anymore because to some extent that's just not a debate. I mean, with the kind of technology that we have now. To some extent, just about everybody except

a kind of primitivist, considers themselves essentially a tatalitarian. If you think about the way anti fascism is set up now, it has less to do with well, we're opposing militarism, because even military action is something that's practically mandatory to pit for some people, certainly for some liberals. I mean, look how many Ukraine flags you see everywhere on these liberals on social media. But it has more to do

with what we're opposing white supremacy. We're opposing white institutions, We're opposing ultimately the existence of white nations as such. And so even something like Churchill or de Gaul, these are fascist figures. They are morally indistinguishable from Hitler in some ways. In fact, they may even be worse because of the Look at what Churchill did to the Indians. Look at where de Gaul's you know, Free French Empire was based. It was operating out of Africa, it was

dependent on on colonialism. Look at the Belgian Congo, look at all of these horrible things. In fact, I think it was joy Reid who said something along the lines of well, the Holocaust was just a bunch of white people killing a bunch of other white people. Now you can snicker at that, but I think for the new American majority, that is how they think about it, and that is all they think about it. But that doesn't mean that the old civic religion is essentially going to

go away. It's almost like a heretical version of it is being developed, and then that's going to become the new faith.

Speaker 1

Well, I realized I've started about six different sectarian conflicts in this podcast alone, but you've.

Speaker 2

Already kicked off like the Third Irish War, so we might as well start one in the Middle least too.

Speaker 1

But functionally, we're witnessing the birth of Protestant anti fascism. It's identifiably the same in a broad context. It's not Hinduism, but it's a stark departure. We see new figures. I think it's important to mention you and I were joking earlier about MLK. MLKA has moved out of the pantheon. No one, yeah, functionally other than American conservatives care about him anymore, and why And they don't even care about

the real moka. I mean, they care about the MLK that was sold to me when I was coming up in the conservative movement. They care about Reagan's Yeah, He's yeah, Reagan's MLK.

Speaker 2

That's exactly right. He was a patriotic American. He just wanted to fulfill the vision of the Founding Fathers. I mean, weirdly enough, this is one of the things that suggests that we're going to into a different era. If you talk to some anti fond for some reason, you're not in a fistfight or something. You'll both agree on what the Founding Fathers actually believed. Like, you're both going to agree that they were racist. You just have different opinions

about what that might mean. But a boomer conservative and maybe even a boomer liberal, they're not going to understand what you're getting out with that. I mean, you're going to see that with the celebrations such as it is that's coming up for the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary and some of the rhetoric that is being tossed around, nobody buys any of it except the boomers. I think.

Speaker 1

Another just to put a coda on this, the same sort of set of cultural taboos around World War Two that are going away are also going away. With regards to white ethnic chauvinism. We're in the early nation stages of this. It's not done yet, certainly not.

Speaker 2

Weirdly enough, it's much easier. Weirdly enough, it's easier to be antisemitic than it is to be pro white. Have you noticed this. You can be on you can be on YouTube and it will be fine. You're still gonna get censored. If you're like, Israel's bad because it's getting in the way of white majority states, that'll.

Speaker 1

Get you kicked off. But if you're just like Israel's bad like that, that's kind of fine. You can get away with that, no problem. Well, you're entirely correct, But in my mind, the primary thing you and I are interested in is trend lines. Where are things going? Because look like if we stayed in this eternal present forever, we'd be screwed. But just as we look towards national birth rates right, the changing demography and say, well in twenty years, where does that leave us? In my mind?

Shiloh Hendrix. The reaction to the Carmelo Anthony verdict, where look, I mean, we've seen even more bad behavior. A random old white guy was beat up outside the courthouse allegedly for being on the jury. It may surprise you that was not exactly a rigorous evaluation. It was just an old white guy that got punched. But you were seeing more and more that as white people become a minority, they are starting to view themselves as a minority. There are pros and cons to that. Look, I would love

to live under the demography of nineteen twenty two. We don't have that advantage, right, and so even in a situation that's very, very grim, there's at least a spot of hope to it. I mean, it's not great, but it's better than at least I would have expected.

Speaker 2

Arguably necessary. I mean, even during the twenty sixteen campaign, there was an interesting trend that was developing. Do you remember when it was basically down to Trump v. Cruz during the Republican Primer, And what they found was that in the more diverse areas, Trump won and in the less diverse areas, the wider areas cruise one. This makes sense because Trump, especially the way he was interpreted in twenty sixteen, was basically a white identity figure. He was

going to take a hard line on immigration. This was smash mouth politics. This was ethnic politics, this was identitarian politics. And there are more studies that back this up. When whites are told that they are a minority or becoming a minority, their political views subtly change. It's not like a total reversal, but it's enough that it's measurable, sort of the way you know, you've seen the study where if like a moderate Democrat has given testosterone, they become

more conservative. It's not like an instant in oh, one eighty and whatever, no, but it's it's something, it's significant, it starts them down a certain road. This is what is happening to white people now. The problem is that this is also I do not think the next great

wave is going to be pro white politics. I think the next great wave is going to be what a lot of conservative ink types called gay race communism, where essentially it's this sort of vague anti white socialism, but weirdly enough, a lot of white people are going to buy into it. This is what I think is happening in Maine. This is what I think is happening in a lot of these congressional races, because yeah, white people

are so beaten down. Young white people, especially people who went to the universities and think they deserve a job as a kind of elite, as a kind of manager. But they can't get these kinds of things. And if you are offered nothing but slop, if you are not even slop, if you're offered nothing at all, you are going to choose socialism because at least that offers you something.

You're still going to come out behind compared to everybody else, but it's more than what you have now, and plus you get the resentful, spiteful pleasure of seeing your betters humbled.

I mean, there's a there's a line I think I've quoted this dude before in Malcolm X, which I think is one of the great racial nationalist movies of all time, where Elijah Muhammad is talking to Malcolm X, and he says, look, he pours ink into a glass and a glass of water, and he says, look, if you offer this to the people and nothing else, like, they'll drink it if they're thirsty. This is basically what this kind of anti white socialism

is offering to struggling young white people right now. Their patriotism has already shattered, They already don't believe in the oldness of American nationalism. A lot of them aren't quite on board yet with what we might call pro white identitarianism. Why not get on board with this thing and try

to be a part of the winning team. I think that's the next big political trend that we're going to be facing, and it's triumph for at least the beginning of its triumph may be at hand in the midterm elections. What happens between them and twenty twenty eight is a separate question.

Speaker 1

Well, Kevin, this has been a great conversation. I really enjoyed it. We've mentioned, of course, your show Identity Politics, which I know is on YouTube and Rumble. Do I have that correct?

Speaker 2

Correct? The livestreams are seven pm on Rumble seven pm Eastern. We're going to be rolling them out on Mondays at the same time, probably in a couple weeks or so. I just got a lot of trouble I got to take care of in the short term, and then we do it a Tuesday and Wednesday during a recorded thing. If you go to Cofi Identity Politics, we do bonus episode that you can sign up for, and of course everything is available at amran dot com. It is fundamentally

a Project of American Renaissance. Well, of course, I think y'all should head over there. Recently did an episode with Greg Bob Bavino. That's one of your people's names. I don't know if I mispronounced that. Yeah, we'll say in America. You know, like these the Romans, we are they now you're looking at them.

Speaker 1

I mean, that was a great episode. I'm not quite done with it. Recommend that as a starting place again, Kevin. It was a ton of fun. Everyone at home, keep your head up. I can't last forever. Good Night.

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