Hi and welcome to the Interior Design Podcast. My name is Hayley Roy, I'm an interior designer, entrepreneur and owner of Harp Design and my co-host is... Hi, I'm Cheryl Sutton, I'm an interior and architectural designer, owner of Rebels Design, bit of a jack of all trades, maybe master of none. Master of interior design I think. Cheryl and I have been working together on and off for six years. Cheryl is one of my very few true friends in business.
Excuse me for interrupting this little section. I just wanted to let you know the next part of the podcast, the sound isn't great. We rehearsed it a few times and the first time we did it, the sound was echoey but the content on this bit was the best one that we did because it was so raw. So we hope you enjoy it. Sorry about the sound, we have improved and you won't be hearing this again but we just needed you to hear this.
So obviously this is the first podcast that we're doing. So rather than kind of catching up on what our week has been like, we thought it would just be easier if we give you guys a bit of an understanding about who we are, and tell you a bit about ourselves, how we got to do what we're doing now and hopefully you'll come to conclusion that we're actually worth, listening to. So I'm going to ask Cheryl some questions. I can go first? Yeah, you go first.
Okay, right. So tell me a little bit about what led you into interior design and your whole career. Where to start? Okay, so I worked on yachts when I was 18- 21 years old, super yachts and I worked for Philip Green for My Sins and his wife, Lady Tina Green and Lady Green was really into interior design and, I used to have to get involved with some of the interior design on the yacht and I just loved it. Do you think that sparked your interest at that point? You were like...
Yeah, yeah, that's when I reallyfond it, I came home and I helped a friend fit out their flat, a new flat that they bought and I just loved it.
I was just like in my element in Ikea, just buying throws and just organising things and yeah, that was when I really knew that I wanted to go into interior design also my dad has got a commercial interior fit out business or he did have at the time and I ended up working for him and got really into the interior design part of that and kind of got dragged into it a little bit too much and then when I decided that I didn't want
to work for somebody else anymore and wanted to have my own business 10 years ago, I started
Harp Design. So I've got a degree in business management and I've done loads of little interior design courses, nothing really to write home about but I read a lot so I like to learn and I like to learn from people as well so hence why this podcast suits me because I'm tapping into all the people that I know and I think people would like to hear from who have got good charisma and stuff so yeah, I'm excited. Right, what do you, what's my next question? Right, what would you say is your biggest
challenge you face as a designer? Obviously you don't just do design though, do you? No, so I do design and project management and I do a little bit of web design and a bit of graphic design as well. So you're actually not just the only Jack, let's be honest. Yeah, so I started off, I actually was a freelance graphic designer when I was
16. Oh wow I didn't know that. Yeah, just kind of playing about, well my dad taught me quite a lot when I was young because he was into computers and graphics and stuff so yeah, biggest challenge you face as either a designer, project manager or just in the role that you do currently in your career that you do now, biggest challenge? (Pause) People. So whether it's contractors or clients or you know, if there's
no people there'd be no work. But yeah, I know people's different personalities and clashing, trying to keep people happy is I suppose, one of my biggest challenges. Like if you work with with more than one person, like if you work with a husband and wife team or two partners and they've both got different ideas of what they want and you're trying to keep those two people happy is a real challenge sometimes. You've
got to try and kind of almost compromise and sometimes. If I'm in a house situation I do sometimes feel a little bit like a marriage counselor. But I love it because in the end you always end up with a good result out of it in the end and if you can make them both happy and you know that that's a challenge. Yeah, definitely. It actually has got quite, it makes you feel good at the end of it. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Okay, last question would be what is, what
has been your favorite project so far that you've worked on? Are you involved in? I think it's got to be Zuaya. Okay. Tell us a bit about that. Arian and Alberto Zandi approached me, oh it must be five years ago now. Arian and Alberto were in their early 20s at the time, hadn't opened a restaurant before, obviously had a bit of money from somewhere to invest and they were doing it as a business. Both of them really sparky, really full on, I love
working for Arian and Alberto because they are so full on. But they had this brilliant idea, we went to Spain, we went to a few restaurants that they liked in Spain and did a little recci out there and then we came back and designed the restaurant. Perks of the job!. And then we came back and designed the restaurant and it was their first one and it's just done so well. I mean, they've been on telly with some of those celebrities,
go dating I think. I think so, yeah. I haven't seen it, I should probably look at that. But yeah, and they've just done really well and the food is amazing. So the whole experience of going in there is just lovely. It's funny, isn't it? Because it's not even about your favourite project in terms of a design, in terms of what you've created. Actually, you're saying that actually that's your favourite project because you've delivered
on something for a client and that they have succeeded. And that's where the, that's where that's the achievement, isn't it? That you can see how that has kind of catapulted them forward with other projects that they've opened since then. Yeah, I'm a massive believer of, you can interior design a business, but you can't make that interior successful. That's a third. If you're doing a hospitality business, for example, that's a third of what needs to happen. A third is
interior design. Another third is service and another third is the food and the product that you're serving. So, you know, it's, I can do the third, I can't deliver the other bits. And when someone does that so well, the Forge Kitchen is a perfect example of that as well. On mine! Your project, yes Oh, maybe that's on my favourite project. So that's up there for sure. I'll ask you your questions then. Yeah, go. Tell me about your career and what led you into interior design.
So I started out, when I left college, I was always kind of arty anyway, really loved drawing, always loved sketching and stuff. Not that I find the time to do it anymore. So yeah, basically, leaving college, I got into kind of kitchen and bathroom design because it was just, you know, it was quite easy, for me it was quite easy to get into. And I really, that was my first experience of being able to actually design by myself and
using, you know, software. And this was like, oh my god, this is so awful, but like 20 years ago or something. We're so old! But yeah, so started out in kitchen and bathroom design and kind of it just developed from there. I mean, I have stopped and started along the way, as you know. You've known me long enough now to know that like, you know, I'll be like, yeah, I'm doing that. And then
all of a sudden, like, no, change of plan, I'm going to go and sell cars. I'm going to go and like apply to be, I think I've told you about when I applied to be a wing walker on the utterly butterly aeroplane. You never told me about that! The stuff, yeah, honestly, the list of stuff. I've seen people have aeroplanes. They used to do like flight shows, air shows, they'd have planes that did like stunts and they have people standing on the top of the plane strapped to it. So I applied to be an
utterly butterly plane, Acrobat or something. Anyway, yeah, then I started off in kitchen and bathroom design, it just evolved. And then, as Hayley mentioned earlier, like I decided to do my, well, I've got a degree in architecture. So I studied, I was a matured student because I did that probably about eight or nine years ago. I graduated about seven or eight years ago. And it's just all like, there's some, I think you just know there's something in you, but there's always been something in me.
It needs to be done. There it comes! That's the worst thing I've ever said. (way too much giggling) Anyway, sorry. Right, where was I going with that? Back in the kitchen! Can we leave that in? (way too much giggling) I'm not sure I want, this is the third fucking episode! Anyway, so, no, when I was a kid, I used to go, (way too much giggling) please stop. It's not even that funny. No, when I was a kid, I used to be, like, I was drawn towards places that were, I remember
going to the beach with my mum, with my mum or with my dad. And there was like old, back in the day when there was old derelict houses, like really derelict, falling apart, no floorboards, like roof was caved in. And I, as a small child at the beach, would be like, can I go in? I really want to go in. There was something about these, dilapidated buildings that I wanted to go and like explore and like look around, which is a bit weird.
Isn't it? Maybe that's why I end up doing like really dark kind of edgy design, like, because it comes from this kind of concept of like really, really early years and stuff. But anyway, so yeah, architecture happened and got my degree there, which was really cool. And then I've worked with you, obviously, for a few, for quite a few years. And then for my sins, about a couple of years ago, I was like, right, let's go and set up Rebel.
So I set up Rebel and here I am. Yeah. So next question. What is your biggest challenge you face as a designer? Did I ask you that question? Yes, I did. Oh my God. For me, my biggest challenge, I'm going to be really honest, the biggest challenge for me is trying to manage client expectations when it comes to, obviously, you know, you wanted to create a space and you want to do the best you can possibly do for, you know, what they're looking
at. So if they come at you with a brief, they have an expectation of what they want and they want your interpretation of that brief. You want to, you want to wow them. You want to absolutely stun them with an incredible design. But there's a really fine line between that and when you're working to budgets. And obviously, everything has a budget, everything. Everyone is from, especially in business, from commercial and residential as well, you
know, there is not a never ending pit of money. If only there was. And you can't have so much
easier. Yeah, right. But you know, the client has to justify every decision that they're making in terms of design, whether it be from a commercial perspective, you know, operationally, it needs to pay back from a business point of view, or whether it's, you know, you've, you're doing your house and you've, you want an extension and you've been saving for years to make it happen or, or you've got funds in place to make it happen and you've only
got, you know, a finite amount of cash. Like, it is really hard, and especially at the moment with the climate and with everything and the cost of cost of living one, but also just since COVID, the fact that material and labour and everything is just skyrocketing. I've had a project this week, which is double what we expected it to be. And that was three years
ago, we looked at it. And you know, you what you don't want to be doing is you don't want to be, you know, being a designer is about being clever with design and, and not having to lower your standards from a design point of view just to make it fit the budget. Like it's a, that for me is my biggest challenge. And trying to explain that to clients and being quite, I have, you know, I'm quite direct about these things. Just my, but yeah, that's
probably my biggest challenge. What has, what's your favourite project been so far? Oh, man, that's a really tough one because I, because obviously I've done stuff with you when I was working with you at HARP and obviously, you know, the forge kitchen in it, which stands out for me massively because I mean, like, that's a bit of me, isn't it? Yeah, that, like that look. And also I think that with that scheme, the, I mean, Grant and Robin
were so much fun to work with. I love working with them. They were really, really great, really great clients. That makes all the difference, doesn't it? Yeah, definitely. But I think we were kind of like a little bit ahead of the game with that, with that look, that right, like it was quite industrial and you know, we were going back, we were probably going back like seven years ago. Yeah, no, there's still a trend, you know, and it's, I kind
of feel like we were ahead of the game a little bit. I mean, obviously design always works like that anyway, doesn't it? It filters out of London, like, you know, it hits London first and then it takes a few, few months for it to filter out to the rest of the country and stuff. But so yeah, Forge was called, oh, I've earned loads, like Laura and Dan's house. I've helped them with Laura and Dan's house and I love that because, you know, that,
that is my little baby. Like I've, you know, I've worked so closely with a friend of mine and they've trusted me, they've trusted me with it. Do you know what I mean? I'm so grateful that they've given me that opportunity to, to come up with that for them, you know, with their help, obviously, you know, and, and it's looking amazing. And I can't wait for them to be back in it and living in it and living it and being like, yeah, we did this,
you know. Yeah. Too many, too many. What's your favourite part of your job? Oh, you didn't ask me this one, did you? No, I didn't. I don't know. What's yours? Moonboards. I love going into the library and going, oh, oh, I forgot, I forgot about that. And just like putting things together and like, for me, not all designers work this way because I've worked with loads of designers who've like gone, hey, you're doing it backwards. But like,
I love, I think I said that to you. Yeah. That was me. What are you doing? This is the way my brain works. Okay. But I love just putting your moodboards together because for me, I can picture the whole project around it. You've said that to me before. So like, I can just put it all together and then go, right, I now know, I now know what to do. Take my moodboard and now I can pick it up. Is that weird? Because mine's completely
the other way. Yeah. I have to have that general arrangement and that spatial layout done. And because that's key for me. And then for me, the next step is, okay, from that point, right, let's develop that and let's start like honing in on small, it's bizarre, isn't it? How we work so differently. So I literally can't wait. If I get a new project, I can't wait to get the library. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you're like, you're heading everywhere.
I think for me, in all honesty, my favourite part, I think for me, if my job would be, and this is a really fine line, because there's, you know, there's balance with this, is when I have to work out, when challenges come up in jobs, when projects come, you know, are through fit out or, or even through design and something's not quite working, and I have to really kind of sit and go, right, okay, how are we going to deal with this? That sounds
awful, doesn't it? Because I know, like, how is that enjoyable? I think it's, you're just really good at fixing things. I think it's enjoyable because it challenges, like, it really challenges me, it challenges me. But the fine line is, if a project is constantly one problem after another, at that point, I'm like, right, I'm done with this now. Too much. I want the pretty stuff in there. But if there's a few bits that we have to overcome,
I get a lot out of that. And then it, and then it becomes, it kind of compounds the result. When I get to the end of the project's finished, I'm like, yeah, that's a good, that's a good, that is a good, like, that's almost like my second. Oh, my favourite, my favourite part is the end, isn't it? Come on, we like, oh, definitely, once it's all done, and you've got it all perfect, especially when you design and project manage something, because you've
got the control all the way through. Yeah, yeah, definitely. So yeah, that's a bit about us. That's gone, oh my god, that's gone on for longer than I anticipated. And there was a big euphemism there at the front end. And yeah.