Rebuilding with Intention: Concierge Design, Architecture, and Fire Recovery with AAHA Studio

Welcome back to the Interior Collective. I'm your host, Anastasia Casey, and today's episode takes us inside the walls of what it really means to design with purpose, clarity, and care. I'm joined by Harper Halperin and Erin Lesch, the husband and wife founders behind AHA Studio. Based in Los Angeles, AHA is known for their concierge style approach to design, blending architecture, permitting, and full-service interiors into one seamless experience.

Their studio is built on collaboration, curiosity, and a deep respect for the people they serve. But recently, their work has taken on an entirely new dimension. After the devastating fires across California, Several of AHA's projects, some which were very recently completed, were destroyed. Overnight, their firm shifted focus to helping over a dozen families rebuild.

navigating complex legislative hurdles and emotional recovery in equal measure. In this conversation, Harper and Erin show how they're guiding their clients through unimaginable loss, using design as a way to restore hope, dignity, and a vision for what comes next.

We'll also unpack what makes their studio's integrated approach so effective, how they lead with elevated service and strong systems, and what interior designers can learn about working more cohesively with architects from the very beginning. We are so excited to invite you to dive deeper into the Interior Collective podcast episodes now on Patreon. Unlock access to in-depth analysis, helpful downloads and worksheets created with each podcast episode. Subscribers gain behind the scenes.

access to additional resources like examples and screenshots of guest spreadsheets, construction documents, and so much more. Your subscription also gets you immediate access to our private community of interior designers and our team of industry experts ready to answer your questions. Subscribe now at patreon.com forward slash the Interior Collective or linked in the show notes. Join the Interior Collective Patreon community and let's continue this conversation.

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Hello, Harper and Erin. I'm so excited to be chatting with you. Just so everyone knows, we owe them a huge thank you for being so graceful because I totally missed our first interview. It had been rescheduled and something had gotten miscommunicated. our automated technology so the fact that you are here for a second time thank you times two million of course thank you for having us yeah happy to be here i'm really excited to chat with you guys through

your really unique background, at least unique to us on the show, as well as your partnership. And it's just so invaluable anytime we can talk to someone. from an architecture perspective, because that continues to be one of the more I don't want to say challenging, but tricky relationships to navigate as an interior designer. So I'm so grateful for your wisdom as we dive in. So Harper and Erin, can you take us back to those early days at USC? What sparked your shared vision?

of the studio and what it would eventually come. Sure. So we actually met on the first day of architecture school at USC. The way that the curriculum in architecture works is you have very little time for your general education classes. So most of the architecture studio tends to take all of those classes at the same times because your windows are very small. And so we add every class together that first semester.

semester. And so we just kind of naturally became friends and we had a pretty tight knit friend group. And so from the very beginning of our friendship, we were doing projects sitting next to each other.

Right. We were in studio, even if we weren't in the same studio, you know, during the times that you'd be working on things, we'd be back in the dorm rooms working on projects together. We'd be helping each other finish our projects, you know, once in a while, a group project. So we naturally kind of. grew up so to speak doing work with each other and so I think it was kind of an inevitability that eventually

you know, we would see if that could turn a profit. My sister is an architect and went to architecture school. And I remember her, the people who were in her studio were like, That was her family. And it was a dream that they would get to work together someday. And they all went off. You know, my sister ended up at Gensler and everybody did different things. But it's fun to see them now, like 10 years later, coming back together to work together.

What was the journey post-USC? Sure. So... I guess it started before post-USC. We actually spent a semester studying abroad together in Italy, in Como, Italy, which was an amazing, amazing experience. And I had always wanted to study abroad. I convinced Aaron that he also wanted to study abroad. So we ended up being able to go together, which was awesome.

that just wet our palettes for travel and for being in other locations. And we spent the subsequent summer as well, traveling and working actually in London. And from that experience, we realized... that we were both born and bred Southern California natives, and we wanted to kind of experience other places. So we decided that we would actually end up in New York.

for post-graduation and being able to be bi-coastal interviewing wasn't really coming to fruition so we kind of packed a bag and ended up camping out on a friend's floor for a month while we looked for jobs and ended up being in New York for a month and finally landed a few positions and started our life in New York. Yeah, it was a challenging year to graduate school. It was 2008, though there were not a ton of jobs.

And we ended up getting a job at the same studio for a little while doing really high-end interiors and high-end architecture for a firm called Studio Sofield, working under Bill Sofield and Emma O'Neill. And they've done some fantastic projects, including the entire Tom Ford identity. They worked on the Gucci projects while Tom Ford was still there.

Lots of high-end residential. Jackie O's old apartment that, you know, we worked on on Fifth Avenue that was being renovated. So really, you know, got our, cut our teeth on. interiors and really what the interior you know informs the architecture he's a trained architect there was trained architects on staff you know but the focus and the the craft and the detailing was really what the emphasis was at that studio and that

was not what we expected to do out of school. You know, we had high ideas about working for OMA and doing big conceptual things and, you know, urbanism and all these things. But, you know, in 2008, you kind of took what you can get. a huge blessing in disguise because I think for both of us definitely working in New York and for me in particular working for Bill Sofield was a

a really formative experience in how I can see the world and then architecture and interiors. We spent five years in New York really learning the ins and outs of the area and just collaboration with artisans and all the different, you know, interior designers, architects, etc. And because we're from L.A., we realized, OK, time to rip off the Band-Aid and either stay here or go home. And we had gotten married while we were in New York and we realized.

Raising kids in the city was probably not the best idea for us. So we ended up moving back to Los Angeles.

And right upon our move back, we were freelancing a little bit for other people and figuring out what we were going to do. We were taking all of our licensing exams so that we could get licensed in California. Yeah, yes. It was a process. I mean, and we did it very fast all together so that we could just pound them out. Yeah, I should say she did them very fast. I had to retake a few tests.

She went through and knocked them one by one, but I had to circle back a couple times. You know, to each their own, to each their own.

So once we had finished the test, we decided, okay, now we can get full-time jobs and really dive into our professional careers at Los Angeles. And from there, he was working for... few different people and I ended up working for interior designer who was actually looking for a architectural partner to have in-house and that was a really great opportunity for me because

I could do what I had been doing in New York, which was very interiors based, but in LA and start learning that process as well. So I was there for about a year and then decided that. I was not going to be continuing to work for them. And fast forward a week after I had left and I found out I was pregnant with our first daughter. And so. I said, it's not for me to go get a new job somewhere temporarily. I'd rather just kind of wait and then do this later.

Aaron was like, okay, well, yeah, why, you know, if you're freelancing, that's awesome. Why didn't you put up a website? so that people know what you can do. And I said, OK, cool. And so I did that. And then he's like, well, you got to post it somewhere because no one's going to know about it if you just create a website. And I said, OK, so I.

posted on Facebook, because why not? And all of a sudden, everyone was like, Oh, congrats. I didn't know you were starting a firm. And I said, Oh, whoops, neither did I. But here we go. It was that organic. It was always something that I had talked about. And my dad has been a serial entrepreneur throughout his career. He's in the legal profession, but he had always said, go to school and then you have the opportunity.

to hang out your own shingle and it was just something that stuck in my my you know narrative of what I was going to do when I grew up so to speak so I said, OK, well, here we go. And during my pregnancy with our daughter, I just kept freelancing and actually started kind of setting up projects that I would start post-maternity leave with her.

And so in 2016, I hit the ground running and I just never really looked back. That's amazing. And so, Aaron, when did you jump on board? Actually, eight years ago today. It was when I left my last job to join Harper, just coincidentally. So I was working for a few different people. I worked at a... commercial firm in Clover City that was doing high-end TI for tech companies and things like that. And then I moved to a residential firm in Santa Monica called Bellberg Architects.

So I was working there and met some fantastic people and kind of on Fridays and nights and weekends was helping Harper with the project that she had. And that... was only sustainable for so long so you know that lasted a couple of years and then i eventually you know jumped ship and you know kind of went in with her full time Amazing. Well, happy anniversary. Eight years is a long time. Okay, so you describe your studio as concierge style. What does that...

actually look like in practice? And how does it differentiate your studio from a more traditional architecture or interiors firm? I think the idea to us was just that When you are at a really nice hotel or you're going to a concierge, right, the idea is that you feel very taken care of. You can walk up and just ask anything. And no matter what the request is, even if they don't know, they will. find out for you. And that really was the impetus of what the idea of our studio wanted to be.

We definitely don't know everything and we don't pretend to know everything, but we want to make sure our clients understand that we're here from them through thick and thin start to finish. And that means that if they have a question that has. nothing to do with architecture if we don't know we will

hopefully help them find the people that do know and we'll be able to guide them through whatever process they're looking to do. And we'll make their dinner reservations for them. Yes, yes. But really, it goes down to just really... having that service mentality and being there to guide them through the process because it is a really life transforming process when they're going through.

whatever they're doing, whether it be, you know, high-end residential and you're doing someone's custom home or whether you're doing, you know, retail and it's a business for them, whatever it is, it is very life transformative to them. And so to... help them through that is hopefully a noble cause that they really feel is a huge benefit to them. I think there's a mentality to that.

you know, traditionally, and I think this is changing, but traditionally, you know, a client would go to an architecture firm and, you know, kind of wait for their their design to be handed down from the mountain you know and like okay you know what am i gonna get you know this is exciting these are the things i want and then like hand me the design and for us it's a lot more collaborative not to say that other people aren't collaborative but it's a much more of a joint.

exercise, I think, for how we treat our clients and how we treat the projects. You know, we don't traditionally like hand people a package and be like, this is the house that we're presenting to you. You know, we really bring them into the process and walk into the model, talk to them about you know, what we're thinking and what the changes are. Not that we don't have opinions or very strong design ideas, but we bring them into that process so it's more friendly. You know, it's less of a...

You know, we're over here and you're over there kind of a situation. It's really we're in this together and this is what the process is like. And let's go along this journey, you know, as a team. And because we do both architecture and interiors, we talk them through the process holistically while we're in the architectural phase. We're not necessarily figuring out what the interiors are, but we have.

conversations that need to happen along the way so that both of those disciplines can be integrated from the beginning how do you feel Like you're able to remain really solution driven in the design. You're super collaborative in your process. And for those who are wanting to integrate that more into their process, what are some of the ways that you feel like you're getting to really understand both a client's needs, the things that they are able to articulate?

you and maybe the things that they don't know to articulate to you, like the questions that they don't know about. How are you getting that information? So we start every project with an intake survey. So we give, it's like a three page document that asks all these questions about the project. These are for larger projects mostly, but ask lots of questions about the project of the clients, but they are not.

prescriptive. It's not tell me what kind of tile you like. Tell me what kind of windows you want. Tell me how many square feet you'd like. It's more about what's your daily routine. What do you each do for a living if it's a couple or a family? How old are your kids? you know do you like to cook do you like to entertain do you like you know the outdoors right are you a morning person are you a night person all of yeah exactly all of these things that in combination with

you know, either a Pinterest board or inspiration images or some, you know, manila folder of magazine cutouts that someone's been saving for 20 years. Our job is to take that information and synthesize it right in. and take what somebody is telling us that they want, but put that aside and try and see what they need.

Right. Or what they're what they actually want versus what they're telling us they want. And the thing that we go back to often is that we say like more square footage isn't better square footage. And that's to say lots of people will come and say, I need a forty five hundred square foot house. OK, great.

Why? Why is that a magic number? Don't tell me you want 4,500 square feet. Tell me what you want to do with that 4,500 square feet and let us figure out what that actually means as far as numbers go. And sometimes in LA proper, you know, your property value is very important. So sometimes people say like, if I'm spending the money to rebuild or add or whatever you're doing, I need to max out my lot because otherwise it just doesn't pencil. There's no R.

ROI on the actual process. And so that's an okay answer. That's not a bad answer. And then in that case, like, okay, if we are maxing out your lot and that allows you 4,500 square feet, what are we doing with that 4,500 square?

be right and that's really what we're talking to our clients about and it is a very iterative process and it is also about pushing back like aaron was saying about what their preconceived notions of what they need or what they want are and really not in a bad of way, but really pushing their perception and the envelope of like,

okay, that's what you thought. But what if we really approach this from a different way? What if we said, okay, you know, you like morning light, so let's have your room face this direction. You're like, well, oh, interesting. I never thought of that. Like, okay. always want god i wanted to be in the back of the lot instead of the front but you're right i do really like morning light that makes sense for me so really just coming with a very clear open head and thought process

And diving in and kind of setting yourself free from all these ideas is really the biggest part of our process. I have a question that I personally struggle with when I'm talking to our clients just at IDCO Studio. Honestly, just about. branding and marketing the concept of like what do you want this to look like at the end and i feel like when someone we're going to get into this later about the incredible work you guys are doing to help rebuild la but when someone is

building a home or completely renovating or starting from scratch. It does feel like they could answer these intake questions in a very like aspirational way like oh I'd love to have a home gym because like I would love to work out and if it was at home I would do it or like I'd love this paint studio because I've always wanted to get into painting or even things that aren't necessarily that black and white. How do you help decipher between helping someone achieve their dream aspirational life?

in this space that you're creating and also advising them on the spaces that they would actually most likely use. Is that something you come up against? Absolutely. Yeah. I think it comes down to. the questions we ask are we've asked both what their current status is and what their future desired status is and really honing into like what do you do now and

maybe what you want to do, but if what you want to do is nothing like what you do now, and we're in urban info lots most of the time in LA, so like there's not infinite amount of space. So when we're talking about a home gym, you're giving something else up. or a paint studio.

no that that doesn't most likely happen unless your house is like 10 000 square feet right or if you're an avid painter and that's like all you do then maybe you're losing a bedroom to get a paint studio like that is makes more sense for you but

We really do make sure that our projects are grounded in reality. And part of that is starting the one of the first conversations we have is what is your budget and what is your scope? And if your budget does not match your scope, that's okay. We're going to be very honest with you and say, are we following your budget or are we following your scope?

because those two don't see eye to eye. And you can say my budget's $2 million. And I'd be like, that's a lot of money. That's great. But then we can't build a 10,000 square foot house, right? Like we just have to make sure those two match because if we... go into this process with

things that don't work, then we're never going to survive to the other end. As a relationship together or you with your project, it just won't get built. And in addition to that, it's continuing to have that conversation throughout the process. It's, hey, I want X, Y, Z. Yeah, definitely. But it will add. Yes, you can definitely have that. We are happy to draw that in and provide that. But it's not my checkbook that's being opened up. So.

If you want that, I just want to let you know that's going to be something that might break your budget or you're going to have to find that tradeoff. So it's having that conversation. continuously through the process because we have had that situation come up where people said, I have a very strict budget. It's, you know, whatever, a million. Okay, great. And then through that process, oh, but I want this. Okay, but it's going to make the budget bigger.

I want to see what it looks like. Okay, great. Okay, but I also want this thing. Okay, we can draw it in, but it might make the budget bigger. And they start to get pricing back. And they're like, what in the world happened? And we're like, look, we have the receipts.

You know, like you have to take some accountability in this process as well. Right. You know, it's not the architect's job to make sure that you can afford what you're asking for. It's our job to tell you that what you're asking for, you might not be able to afford. based on what you've told us.

right we're creatives we want to build up people's dreams but unfortunately in this market we often end up dashing people's dreams and it's really really sad situation to be in but you have to just flip it on its head and be like i would much Rather, you...

hear the truth from the beginning and then we can move past it and get into the fun part rather than doing the fun part and then get to the truth and then realize what we just did was a total waste of everyone's time. And there's a lot of people. contractors, architects, I'm sure interior designers as well, that will just tell people what they want to hear. They'll say, yeah, absolutely. We can do that. No problem. I can build this for you for $400 a foot. Oh yeah, definitely. We can do that.

Because they want to get their foot in the door. And we have had clients come back to us after they say, hey, no thanks. Somebody else said they could give us what we wanted with their tail between their legs saying, hey, okay, you were right. Can you help us now? And you are not alone. Truth is, it is not you. What you needed just didn't exist. Until now. Meet Materio. M-A-T-E-R-I-O.

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But I really like what you said, Erin, about having the conversation of like, okay, so are we sticking to the budget or are we sticking to... the scope list because a lot of times people just don't know how much things cost and they can say you know I have two million dollars that sounds like a lot of money and then once they actually see what yeah and it is and once they see what two million dollars can actually

get them then you know in the best case scenario there is more money to be contributed like they find more money to be able to increase that scope as they're looking for. So this is amazing. And we've dug in so deep already. But I do want to step back so I don't forget to ask this question. Walk us through your team structure today and how your team's navigating architecture to interior design.

design and back like how do you guys divide and conquer and who's supporting you yeah so there's nine of us total we've grown really steadily in a very you know prescriptive manner we never are just hiring to

fill workload, we definitely want to make sure that we have runway to fill the people that we're hiring. And so on the architecture side, there's Aaron and I. And then we have three people below us that are on the... trained architects they are not licensed but they are trained they all were went to school for architecture proper on the interior side there's two people full-time interior design trained

One is more on the furnishing and procurement side, and one is more on the architectural interiors and specification design side so that they each have their own hats to hold. And then we have a, oh, I'm sorry. I misspoke. We have four on the architecture side, not three supporting us. I can't even count. Oh boy. And then we have a full-time office manager, which was a really big deal for us because.

we decided to hire her. It's been almost two years in October now. And it was one of the best things we ever did. We were really nervous to jump in because it's like, oh my gosh, it's a non-billable person. What are we going to do?

But it's such a big necessity for us because we both still want to practice architecture and interiors. We don't want to just do the business. And she... massively holds a lot of hats in PR HR social billing like all of the things that we can help oversee but we don't have to be the ones

you know, doing all of the legwork for it. Okay, let's talk process. I'd love for you to break it down, start to finish, assuming that someone is hiring you to... design the physical shell in the architecture side as well as all the way through to finishes and furnishings. How do you break up that design and deliverables phases? So when we issue proposals, we'll issue the proposal for architecture and then we'll also issue a proposal for interior. So they're completely separate.

separate scopes of work. And that allows us to have the flexibility that a client can hire us for just architecture or for both. also allows a lot of transparency because when we used to clump the two together, I think people were confused as to what was the cost of each and they could never compare apples to apples. And this allows them Nothing's ever apples to apples in this world, but...

More so, at least. And so in our scope of work, we have, you know, traditional architectural thesis, schematic design, design development, city permitting, construction documents, and that's all very transparent. Those are fixed fees. It allows people to really understand, you know, what the process is and be very clear cut from the beginning. And then we have additional services that people can use us for. Most often they do, but isn't necessarily part of that.

process. So that would be bidding and construction administration. helping them through the construction process. And then on the interior side, we have the same level of services. So we'll have schematic design, design development interiors, and then oftentimes we'll do construction document interiors.

depending on how robust the entire package needs to be and how much we did on the architecture side versus not. And the way that this works is that we'll start a process in architecture. We'll start in schematic design.

through the design process with them really let the architecture work its way out and the concept be apparent on paper and then because we are an open studio and very collaborative after that process interiors team as well as aaron and i because we have a background in interiors as well we'll go through it with more of a fine-tooth comb and say like okay

this room is really cool architecturally, but like furnishing this may be really complicated. Like what is the goal of this room? How are we actually making this work? And also like, okay, this would really want... really interesting lighting or this would really want great millwork. So what if we adjust the floor plan slightly to accommodate that? And so that goes through that initial first process during schematic design.

And then we keep going through all the architecture. And once we're in the city, usually...

during that process or when we start construction, that's really when we break into the interiors holistically because at that point, the budget is set and we'll know how robust the interiors can be for the client. We'll know if we can kind of... go a little bit crazier in the world of finishes or if we need to tone it down because the architecture got very expensive and so it allows us to be a little bit more flexible so we're not redoing the interiors package more than once unfortunately

it does compile it and compress it to a point that we hopefully aren't catching up in construction. We are giving ourselves the runway to still procure the architectural interior materials. But, you know, it is a little bit time sensitive at that point. We can't be super, you know, lackadaisical about our interiors package. We really have to make sure that we're fleshing it out pretty quickly.

You just mentioned something so interesting that I've just been hearing from our own clients coming up more and more just like in the ecosystem we're in that. projects that they're doing full construction on. They're getting to the phase of actually doing furnishings and budget has either been used up because it had to get allocated to architecture and construction materials. Or they're just at like a spend fatigue and whether it was part of.

Whether you're within that original spend agreement and budget that was agreed upon, they're just kind of at the end when they're like, I'm not even going to get as far as the furnishings and style, let alone styling. I find that the fact that you break up the two.

two scopes in your proposals really interesting because it does it's just so smart from a business model that you can kind of protect yourselves because if the spend's going one way or the other it is still within house but i'm wondering if do you guys come up across that as well where people after they get to the build then suddenly the furnishings budget has been depleted or is looking less desirable for them absolutely and that

you know, is certainly frustrating on a design side, but on a human level, it's understandable. You know, we, I think are fortunate, I would say, in that our projects are not... with astronomical budgets. They are not, you know, billionaires who can just spend and spend and spend. You know, most of our clients are young families, you know, two working professionals. This is something.

you know, fires notwithstanding that they've been thinking about for a long time and have been planning for. But, you know, what they need to invest in now is sometimes the infrastructure, which, you know, is code for the architecture. Right. And so. Once they get through that process, which is a very long process, you know, and can be grueling in some ways, and even having, you know, an architect.

or a designer who is really holding their hand and making sure that they are kind of satisfied and happy through the process, it's a long time. These projects are not quick. So even if they don't have spending fatigue necessarily, they've been doing this for two to three years. They have decision fatigue. They have decision fatigue. So like the last thing they want to do is like think about the fabric on the sofas. They're just like.

we've been like going through tiles and going through this thing and this problem in construction and that issue and all of these different things that it does get hard for them to be like. okay, I'm going to do all this right now. And also they're eager to move in. They're like, look, I have the sofa. I have a few things. I have my pieces. Let's just move it in and get in there, feel the space out. And then we can figure out what we need. Right. So that's.

completely understandable from a client side. From a design side, it can be frustrating because you're like, hey, I'd love to photograph the house. I want to get you in where it feels really turnkey, you know, where there's like an install day and a beautiful reveal and the bus moves out of the way and you go, ta-da.

But realistically speaking, that very rarely happens unless you have a client with a huge... kind of a budget and the means to to do it like that right yeah or they have a place that they're living that they don't have the heartburn of holding two mortgages I think that's like the or a rental and a mortgage they need to get out of their base yeah so I think often what what happens most of the time is

We'll do architecture. We'll do architectural interiors. We'll... say will help furnish, but that sometimes means incorporating existing pieces into the locations and then sprinkling new pieces. as time progresses like we for instance will be photographing a project in a few in two weeks that we finished Three years ago or two years ago because it's taken them and us that long to.

fill the space and even still it's not fully filled but you know we'll we'll be selective about how we're photographing it or they don't want to spend money right now on doing the full landscape So I'm not going to photograph a house with a dirt yard because they're just like, I ran out of money right now and I need some time. I need to get my kids in. I need to unpack them. They need to start school. These are realities of life. Not everything can be.

how you want it from a design side and that's part of the concierge style and the the customer service idea you know and i think people forget that at the end of the day interior design architecture design in general is a customer service business. You know, we are serving a customer. It is, we are not all, you know, Frank Gehry and Jean Nouvel and, you know, whomever else that can just kind of.

you know like i said before hand our designs down from from on high like you need to manage people it's about people you know and the design oftentimes and maybe rightfully so comes second to that part of the business

I think that's a reality that a lot of designers, as we kind of come down from this COVID boom, are facing and really realizing and kind of like taking a... bite of humble pie that like, yes, some people are going to need to postpone a project. They're going to need to take a pause. They're going to need to take a six-month spend break. Can you guys talk to us a little bit about the strategy and how you communicate with a client to go back?

and shoot something that you finished three years ago because I'd love for people to hear that like hey that can be an option if you articulate and communicate it right with the client. Yeah I think first off it's about maintaining that relationship.

Right. So again, it's about the people. And if you end a project, you know, on rushed terms or not great terms, or you haven't taken care of them in the way that, you know, they, that particular client needed to be taken care of, it's going to be rough. It's a constant touch. If it's going to be a year or two, it's every few months. Hey, how's it going? How are the kids? It's some of that kind of sales nature of the business that's just relationship building. That's, you know, really important.

And also, I mean, we spend years with these people. And once you wrap up a project in its like biggest form. you get a little bit of withdrawal when you, it's like seeing a friend that you see every day and then all of a sudden, like you don't talk to them. It's kind of a sad moment. You're like, no, I'm not ready to be done with this project. And so I think that it really also breaks down.

to when you're constantly checking in, you want to see like, hey, how are you? It's been a while. Like, you know, like Aaron said, like, how are your kids? What's going on? You know, how was your last trip? Are you doing anything fun for the summer? just little touches or like also hey can we help you get anything are you still looking for that sofa you know is there something that we can like get you samples of or hey i was in the area can i stop by and say hi

Things like that. Right. So I think that's really the crux of it is the constant touch, you know, over a long period of time. And then as far as strategies of shooting something later, it's, hey, are you going on a vacation at all this summer? Are you going to be gone for a couple of days? And if they are, that's great because then they're not in the way. They don't have to stress about.

People being in their house in the same way. And us tearing apart their house. Moving all their prized possessions. Putting it back together. But in order to do that, you need to have built a relationship. And the trust that someone says, yeah, I'm going out of town for the long weekend. Here are the keys. That takes a lot of time to build that kind of relationship with somebody.

Yeah, that's such an interesting idea. I was just going to ask you guys, what are the logistics? What do you offer to a client in order to be able to get into their house? Honestly, friendship, professional friendship, to ask them, especially over summer, are you guys traveling this summer? Could we get in? That's actually such a great way so that you aren't.

paying for their hotel paying for their dog to be boarded or you know all those other things that come into it so I love that advice thank you so much

So a lot of our listeners are interior designers, obviously, who work with architects as outside collaborators. And a lot of times they're brought onto a project, you know. Ideally interior designers are always like I want to be involved from the very beginning but a lot of times someone's already started with an architect before they start to reach out to the interior designer. What are some ways designers can adopt more of this integrated thinking in their own project approach?

even if they're not under the same roof with their architect? I think that it really goes down to having relationships with people on the other side of the aisle, so to speak, right? We have great relationships with other interior designers and other architects. So we'll collaborate with those interior designers.

a lot where we don't do the interiors we just are supporting them in their role and vice versa we have relationships with architects where we're only doing the interiors and they're doing the architecture and The benefit of that collaboration is that we speak both languages, right? But that takes practice. And having conversations with architects and with interior designers on a consistent basis so that you understand.

from a macro level, what the process is and what goes into it, then it's a much. Clear collaboration and less of like, oh, I'm here to step on your toes and more just I'm curious and I'm here to help. Again, the service mentality of like. I want you to succeed and I want to help you in what you're doing. And so I think.

Being able to have those relationships and also just checking in with those people all the time. Hey, what projects are you working on? How's it going? You know, then they'll be more willing to. bring you into the process from the beginning instead of them working with clients and you just kind of coming in when it's your time to start your process. And also with the clients, educating them on the fact that it... is beneficial for these two disciplines to overlap.

So if you're talking to a client and they have an architect already, be like, hey, that's amazing. I'd love to meet your architect. Can we all go out to lunch together? Can we have a coffee? I think us being able to be on the same page from the beginning and then understand.

what you need from a furnishings perspective and need to understand what you want from an architectural perspective, those two things will come together. And really, it's just about being a team. So if you're showing the client... that you can all be a team and you can all, you know, be nice in the sandbox and play together in a productive way. I think that's the best way to be collaborative.

Yeah, I agree with everything Harper said. I'll also say that there's a tendency for architects to not want to... get too involved on some of the interior things or not show too much of an interest and vice versa interior designers are like oh like structures that's not my thing you know i don't care what's behind the walls i just you know

That's not of interest to me. And from both directions, that's, I believe, the wrong approach. I think that architects need to listen to outside interior designers and understand what their intentions are. you know understand what it what kind of things that they want you know what are they paying attention to when they walk into a space right what are they paying attention to when they are looking at plans and trying to plan and vice versa

interior designers, the more they know about the architectural process, right, about the building process, the construction process, the better that they're going to be, you know, on that side. And that was one of the lessons that Harper and I both learned. working in New York is those two things really need to harmonize, you know, from a...

What kind of plumbing is in the wall? Well, that matters, right? From the simplest version of like, is it a deck-mounted faucet to a wall-mounted faucet? Okay, well, there's different things we need to think about here then, right? Is this a wall-mounted toilet or a floor-mounted toilet? There's different things that we need to think about, not just to focus on plumbing. But, you know, having architects understand the different requirements for a drapery.

for instance or drapery tracks or roller shades and things like that is really important so that we can plan for those things and vice versa having an interior designer who understands okay what can be changed what can't be changed and not just come in and be like well this is what i need

I need my six inch pocket. OK, great. But there's structural framing up there that we can't cut into. So let's have those either have those conversations really early or let's work together and figure out how we can do that. But the better that. these two parties understand the needs of the other, the more that Venn diagram is going to overlap and the better the project is going to be for the client.

I feel like this is a perfect opportunity for me to ask for like a Cliff Notes version. Those were amazing examples. That was long. No, no, no, no. I want more. I'm like, can you give us more examples of things that an interior designer could go to their architect and be like, I know I want to do this, this and this. And these are things that you guys come up against.

frequently that like the earlier they can tell their architect the smoother the process is because I think just like those those examples you just gave from the plumbing to the drapery were amazing that maybe a newer designer doesn't realize that needs to go all the way to the

architects so it's not something the builders trying to figure out you know come install well one of the biggest things that we do when we do our interiors packages when we're detailing all of our millwork and really understanding what that looks like is windows start to shift very, very quickly and not like, oh, I'm moving this window seven feet, but like even moving a window.

half an inch, a quarter of an inch to align with the sink because your cabinetry needs to be standard or whatever the reason may be. That affects the structure because you may have a shear wall that needs certain nailing for five feet. And if you don't have five feet, then you got to redo the structural calculations. So just small minutiae that like make.

the interior is so much better. If you walk into a space and you have a beautiful interior millwork package and the sink is amazing and the faucet is amazing and the window is not centered, you're like, what the heck? That's horrible. Like that was such an easy thing to change. But if you didn't know to ask for it, then they can't just change it because they want to. Not to me is probably one of the biggest ones, how windows align with what you're doing in the interiors, whether it be millwork.

or furnishings. Like, okay. What are the codes? Every city has different codes for second floors, for instance, for window heights, sill heights. Some cities require 42 inches. Some cities don't. And how does that work with headboards and nightstands? And how does that work? that work with you know benches and all these things like windows and interior design are the biggest kind of clash not in a bad way but just

They are the thing that boil down to structure that often when you get too far into construction, when you're drywalled, some people are like, that's the perfect time for the interior designer to come in. I'm like, no, that's way too late, right? they can't then make the changes that they need to make. I also think that having a clear understanding of the order of operations in construction is important. So like Harper's saying, the drywall is complete, bring the interior designer in. Well...

The interior designer may say, well, we actually wanted flush baseboards. OK, well, that seems simple enough, but that means in order to do flush baseboards, the baseboards are going in pre-drywall or the reglet is going in pre-drywall to.

do that so not only does that mean that has to go in first but that also means that that's going to up the drywallers budget because now they have to add a different trim at the bottom of their drywall and they need to laser level the whole thing and hold that up right so that little change of okay do i have an applied base or a flush base actually

can significantly change the order that they do things on site. So little things like that. And again, having an understanding of that stuff so the interior designer can first really early say, hey, I'm thinking about flush baseboards. Is that something that we can accommodate in the budget, right? Versus coming in afterwards saying, well, can't they just cut the draw wall out of all of this? Well, sure. If you want to pay the $15,000 change order. If that's it.

Or also another one is like doors, interior doors. You know, what are the details around the door? Is there a casing? Is it not cased, right? Is it more of a kerf jam or in bathrooms? Are you doing a... schluter or like oh my god i cannot do a schluter this comes more into modern design less than traditional design where you can hide things with coves and that type of stuff but like if you're doing a modern interior you have to make sure everything lines up

Exactly. And if you don't want to schluter, okay, maybe you have to do double layer of drywall and that detail matters. Or this is also another big one is we could do this all day. Oh my goodness. Showers, right? Having a curbless shower. actually goes down to structural details so that is something that needs to be discussed when you're doing foundations not even like you know down

So, again, there's so many, but this is where having that really strong conversation between the architect and the interior designer from an earlier stage is super important. Okay, amazing.

Thank you so much. I'm like, I know everybody's writing these down. So previously, I would love to talk about. your client experience and business philosophy. What are you have a fairly large team? I mean, you're a decent sized studio. And I'm curious, who's actually the point of contact when it comes to their to your clients? It varies on what they're asking. And we have to train our clients to know who to come to when.

This is still very much a work in progress because although we are technically a bigger studio, I would say we still very much function as if we're like maybe four people. So. Every project has a project manager, whether that be on the architecture side or the interior side.

And then if we're doing both, a project will have both an architectural project manager and an interior project manager. So that's where when we get into interior, sometimes the client gets confused on who they're supposed to talk to. So we kind of just... say copy everyone on every email and they'll all be in the know and then they can field questions as it is

within their discipline and it requires our architectural team to start understanding interior requirements and our interiors team to start understanding architectural requirements so as a studio we are educating each of our own disciplines to know when they're responsible for what and what conversations to have. Again, still very much a work in progress, but also teaching clients that We now have an email for billing. This was a really big one.

Billing does not come from Aaron or me or the office manager. Billing comes from its own email. And when they reply, yes, we all see it. But it goes to a specific email so that they don't think when they're asking a question about billing that they're asking it directly to us. And that separates it in a really.

beneficial way where we can still have a very positive relationship with a client if they're miffed about a bill or whatever it is we can kind of keep it separate but internally everything is still kind of coming up the chain to either Aaron or I. So we're involved in I don't know, at least 80% of every decision that happens in the studio. And that's a lot for us. So we're working on that and figuring out how to adjust and give people. you know, onus of their own projects as we grow.

I'm curious what like systems, softwares you guys are using, especially because you are on both sides, both disciplines. Do you guys use like a design software like Studio or Materio or anything like that? And then also on the architecture. side is there like a project management system or are things spreadsheets like through and through so you can carry them between the studio it's mostly post-it notes and red string we on the architecture side we use archicad

which is a BIM software similar to Revit that some people might know. So everything that we do is in 3D, save for like, you know, really specific interior materials. So that from a drawing perspective, that's what we use. The interiors team. uses our AutoCAD and SketchUp, depending on what it is, but we're kind of slowly trying to bring them onto the dark side of ARCHICAD. Then, as far as project management goes, we use Monograph for

project management and invoicing and timekeeping and things like that. We don't use any of the kind of traditional interior design softwares. that part of the business isn't robust enough where we need to have its own system. So we use Dropbox for all of our documents, and then we've been using Dropbox Paper for a long time, which is like... but it's within Dropbox, which is really helpful because we can tag each other and it integrates with all the files and things like that.

There's still a few errant spreadsheets here and there, but we try and kind of do as much of it as we can in a few different softwares. So we're integrated across disciplines. From a procurement side, we're still a little old school. we're going more with like excel and that type of thing and project tracking We use Dropbox paper for project tracking and that kind of dovetails in with procurement. So that is beneficial. We don't do a lot of like a more traditional interior design practice would.

We don't do a lot of, what am I thinking of? Like we don't take payments. Oh, got it. Yeah. So when we're from, one thing we've made a cognitive decision about is that we. If we are procuring for clients, if we are purchasing for clients or specifying furniture or hardened materials, we're actually using their payment method. So we're not doing it as like a reimbursable expense so that it's not. going through our books the the detriment of that is that we aren't marking up on those

things. But the benefit of that is it keeps our books a little cleaner, a little bit more streamlined. And instead of making money on markups, we're making time and materials cost. Accounts receivable. That's what I was thinking of. Yeah, because then for monograph, it goes into QuickBooks, right? And then through QuickBooks, that's where we're doing all of our accounting. So, yeah.

It's a lot of software, not to mention Slack. We use Slack all the time and Zoom because we are still hybrid. We're part in office, part at home. And so there are a lot of...

software tools that have to come in to play every day to make this office run okay as we get towards the end of the show i want to make sure we get a good amount of time to talk about the incredibly heart-wrenching and inspiring work that you guys have been doing as you've been involved in over a dozen fire rebuilds so far, and I'm sure that there's even going to be more. Can you walk us through how those conversations began?

how they've helped kind of reshaped your process because working with someone who's rebuilding and going through the insurance claims and all of the horribly drudging. steps and politics that they have to go through how does that affect your design process and your ability to work with someone and really like the timelines and just all of it

Yeah. So we this is not a situation that we were anticipating, nor were any of the people that were involved for that matter. But we had already been working in the Palisades for a number of years when the fires happened. So I would say. we've been doing Project in the Palisades for the last five years at this point. And that really gave us a sense of the community and the people that live there. And also there's a number of different communities within the Palisades.

So there are projects that we had done in some of the more eastern communities, closer to Brantwood, so Riviera and Huntington, and some of those areas didn't burn. Other projects that we had done on the Western side of Huntington, Marcus Knowles and other spaces, those unfortunately did burn. And then some that we had done in the hills.

were right next to burn sites, but they didn't burn. So we had kind of a gamut of project types, and it really put us in the middle of... the fires for sure when we were having live conversations with our clients in tears us and them both included of like

These are our labors of love. These are their forever homes. And are they still standing? And so the very early hours of the fire, both Tuesday, Wednesday, and even... pre-Tuesday where everyone was kind of looking down the barrel of the gun we were having conversations of you know where is it what's happening you know are you safe are you evacuated

And from there, again, it goes back to our clients are our friends, right? We may not hang out with them every day, but we are very close to them. We are in constant communication with them. And these... conversations were very emotional. And so...

Being there from the very beginning put us in situations where people were just scared and didn't know what to do. The minute they knew they lost their homes, they're looking for guidance. They've never been through this process. And so our clients would. give our names to their neighbors and be like, can you please just talk to them? Can you help them understand what their next steps are and how they navigate this?

you know they're not ready to make a decision but they just need someone to talk to and we had also had previous experience in the wolsey fire you know back in 2018 we had done few rebuilds there and walk clients through the insurance process so I had told our clients like, hey, if anyone has questions on insurance or how to talk to a public adjuster or any of that, like we're here. Use us as a sounding board. And people took us up on that offer. And I would say the first.

i don't know two two three weeks of the fire like i was on the phone or on zoom constantly to the point that like we actually we have a four kids and We sent them to my parents' house because I was like, I just need to be able to be accessible to people. And also the smoke was horrible, so it was better for them to be out of LA proper. But it gave us the opportunity to just really... give whatever we could to people and help in whatever way we can. And again,

service. It's all about the service. And it came from a very real place of wanting people to feel better. That then trickled down to a lot of Zoom conversations about what's the process from hiring standpoint right like then people were like okay thank you for all of your help but now if we want to hire you what does that look like and we had to realize we had to discuss and then realize like we're not going to be able to help all these people there's just no way

And so we had conversations with everyone. We did not say like, oh, if your price point is here, we won't talk to you. But as we said from the beginning, we're very honest. So if someone's like, hey, I. you know, I'm not getting any insurance money. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm like, okay, that's great. Well,

walk you through it, but we're not the best fit for you. Or, you know, hey, I, you know, just want an off the shelf design. Can you just sell me something you've already done? Like that. I can refer you to someone, but that's not a good fit for us either. We decided we weren't going to change our process. We really wanted to still walk people through the whole process start to finish.

and in the same way we would do it traditionally. Maybe it's a little faster, but it's faster from a permitting side, not from a design side. We did not want to rush the design component.

Our process hasn't changed. We've just, you know, changed how we're talking to people because their perspective of why they're doing this has changed. Do you feel like there is a difference? in designing for emotional recovery like

Is there I understand that you're talking to them differently about like what the process is and like how you're actually like holding their hand through it. But is there a difference in the design when someone's been through something so traumatic as to how they're looking at their home? that they want to make different choices than they may have if they didn't have to live through that. Absolutely. And it comes down to a sensitivity. Previously, or if you're building a house.

and it's something that you've thought about for a long time, you come at it with a certain level of excitement. This is an anticipatory event where you really thought about this. You can't wait to dig in for a lot of people. In this particular instance, it's something they're doing out of dread. And they're doing out of grief in a way. of the life that they lost of the home that they lost of the possessions and the community that they lost

this is still something that they need, right? So there's other pieces now of the conversation that came in that people are grappling with that they may not say, but a lot of people are grappling with, do I want to be back in the Palisades or Altadena? where they loved that community before. But right now, there isn't a community that exists. Is that somewhere they want to live, right? And if they're coming to us to start this process, most of the time they've...

Still, they've kind of decided the yes that they do, but it's still a question that nags them in the back of their mind. Right. So our job is to. not only shepherd them through the process of rebuilding and, you know, either redesigning their home or reimagining it somehow, but trying to help them find the opportunities. in rebuilding and not just, okay, I just want to put back what I had there before.

right in a non-selfish way for us you know not like oh well you could do this and you could do that and what if you made it this no it's more like okay we get that you have to do this now and that frankly sucks excuse my language but You know, now that we're here, you know.

And once you dig a little bit with people, you realize, oh, they did want to change this little thing about their house or they always kind of want this thing. So if you can help them through that slowly and understand what pace they want to go at. then you can help them find the opportunities, right? And you can help them find those gems within this horrible tragedy and this emotional, you know, cacophony that they're dealing with of insurance and mortgages and, you know.

remediation and relocating their kids and their school and all these things and knowing that it's going to be a long process but within that process there are things you can give them that they can latch on to that are like anchors that can help pull them through this knowing like oh on the other end of this i might have something that i really really love

Or they maybe lived in this house for a number of years and they were in a different lifestyle than they are now. So maybe they raised kids in these homes or they moved in pre-kids or. They now are in a space, they're aging in place and they need a different thing than they had before. And so. We're trying to walk them through, again, as Erin said, what are the opportunities for this and reimagining what you have.

now in two years, but also what you're going to be doing 10, 20 years from now if you are staying. And I think that people... It's emotional and you have to be ready to ride that roller coaster with them. And it is difficult from a design perspective, especially because we are wanting to help people. We are a bunch of empaths, right? And you do take on that burden to us.

certain extent, but I think it really also moves us through because it allows us to feel like we're helping someone and we're really helping them navigate. Okay, we can get to the other side and you can create.

whatever life you wanna live down the road. Guys, thank you so much for your time. This has been amazing. I've learned so much on this episode. Thank you more so for the incredible work that you're helping your community and for shipping your kids off to the grandparents so that you could fully devote yourselves to your clients and your neighbors and your community. I've really, really appreciated our conversation.

today and I can't wait to catch up with you guys again very soon thank you so much for having us it's been an absolute pleasure thank you really appreciate it bye guys bye For more in-depth analysis of this interview, including exclusive downloads, examples, and more, don't forget to subscribe to the Interior Collective on Patreon.

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