Whether you're seeking new skills or transformative exploration i encourage you to open the gift of our guests perspective to build your capacity and open doors for innovative thinking. Each chapter offers memorable acrostics and blueprints for small steps that lead to giant leaps in personal and professional development.
Today's guest kindly asked me for an endorsement for the latest of her trilogy of books and that was the endorsement, other endorsers include amy edmondson Dorie clark and friend of the show Kaihan krippendorf, she too is a friend of the show she joined us previously for innovation Bytes where she shared one of her famous acrostics, errors and a link to that episode in the show notes.
It is a pleasure to welcome back friend of the show 3M's first ever chief science advocate with, i had 76 written down now it's 80 patents to her name Jayshree Seth. Welcome to the show. you, Aiden. Like I was saying before we started, I have waited for this such a long time and I'm so excited to be here. I'm so sorry it took so long. I know the show has a long and I want to say this to our audience. I don't this. The book, the show is booked out.
Almost three years in advance and the only times i cover a book that is just been launched or anything like that is some event like this where i can plan it well in advance or somebody who's on the show goes i have a book coming out in april twenty twenty six will you hold me a slot so i have been planning this for a long time so thank you for your patience No, It's just a testament to the work you do and how much we all enjoy and, and want to be featured on it to spread the word.
So I think it's, it's just a testament to your commitment to this. And I've told Well, and I appreciate it.
I was so happy to be an endorser of it as well because i was gonna read it anyway so it was a great opportunity to get a sneak peek, and it's so helpful for a change maker because there's loads of tips in there how to socialize your idea how to be able to communicate your idea well, these are all really important parts about the innovation process I thought we'd start the show and finish the show with a leadership principle, and one of your acrostics
and the reason I keep using that word acrostic is because I want our audience to go, what the heck is he talking about? , I'll let you explain what that means. And then let's use that as a segue then to get into the first one. Which is leak proof over to you, You talked about my being a scientist and yes, 31 years, all in innovation, R& D, technology development, product development. But what I realized is at the end of the day, leadership is extremely important.
I'm not talking about functional leadership and having a particular role position or whatever. I'm talking about. stepping up and really using that ability to inspire and to inform. So I think everybody is a leader, but honing into this without having a sort of expertise in the area of leadership, I feel like I've got practical experiences that I want to bring to people.
So I've interacted with many different organizations, internally, externally leaders, I've read, observed, research experience, and especially, We have all lived through some very interesting years where a lot of these definitions have morphed into what they need to be for the next, X number of years. So leadership is obviously somewhat of an amorphous concept and everybody understands it and everybody has some definition of it.
But when the word is thrown around loosely, And I feel very strongly about this. When non leaders are put in so called leadership positions, or when we conflate privilege with performance, or when a leader really lacks one important aspect or facet of leadership that was so important, it becomes very clear that we need to move from this Principles of leadership to highlighting some tangibles. And, and there's a lot of great research on what constitutes leadership and type of leadership.
And I just am adding to that crowded space. I know, but I still ask people for forgiveness because I do have a unique vantage point. I have never been a functional leader with thousands of people reporting to me and people are like, well, what do you mean then? But I think I have a very interesting viewpoint. On how we can inspire the next generation and how we want to make sure these are the things we want to have. safeguarded for excellence.
So what leak proof leadership in my mind is fortifying the essential dimensions of leadership and making sure none of these critical elements leak through the gaps in your leadership backdrop. And the critical elements to me are that the leaders need to be engaged. Nobody can argue with that. An engaged leader. We all know what it feels like when you have an engaged leader. We all know what it feels like when you have an active leader as opposed to somebody who's extremely passive.
We all know what it feels like when you have a knowledgeable leader, somebody who understands. And so what I say is leak proof leadership is about leading, engagement, action, and knowledge. So that forms the acrostic framework, lead, engaged, active, and knowledge. You have to lead with vision, values, and strategy. Those are the three you absolutely need to have. How to be able to. project a vision, have it be consistent with deep core values, and then not just some pie in the sky.
How are you going to translate that into a strategy? So if you're aspiring to be the leader, or if you're looking to lead, think about those three things. You need to be the leader in vision, values, and strategy. Engagement Extremely important to be engaged with people, process, culture. Cause oftentimes, Oh, people skills, not that important. Blah, blah, blah. People skills are so important. Interacting with people is so important. Processes are run by people, FYI.
So don't be hanging your hat on your process importance and, and the way you can structure processes, et cetera. People, people, people. So people process, and then what pulls them together is the culture. And you have to have active role and engagement in all three. People process culture. And then you have to be actively listening, learning, and communicating. How many times you run into leaders who don't listen? How many times you run into leaders who listen, but don't learn?
And how many times you run into leaders who've got it all, but just cannot communicate. And that's why I want to say listening, learning, and communicating. So, so, so important, the skill of communicating and then knowledge. I want my leaders to have enough knowledge of the content because they're going to be making decisions. And this is especially coming from somebody in R& D. You cannot say, I don't understand, I don't want to understand, I can't understand.
No, no, no. You have to understand the basic content. You have to ask the insightful questions that let the technical people know that you do appreciate and understand the content. And yes, you need to understand the context. The context is in which the business is done. The context in which your customers operate. The context of the trends that drive their decision making. So it's content, context, and then purpose. Purpose is so important.
So many leaders are just going through the motions without a deep understanding of why they're doing what they're doing. And that purpose is so important. So these 12 Is what I have pulled out post pandemic, my view of mentees who come and say, Hey, I'm, I'm aspiring for leadership role. What do I think about? I say, start thinking about this. Now, the practice of painting a vision, what are your core values and reflecting on them and making sure your vision and value are in place.
No cognitive dissonance there. Think about strategy. How are you going to put this on paper? That's so important. And how are you going to then manifest it and execute it? Way you start with vision i always find that so interesting that.
Most people who work in innovation have a bias for action and we just did recently a series with david rogers on his book the digital strategy roadmap and again like you start to a vision has to be the first thing the vision of the company where we go and etc but also i have an acronym to share with you one from charles o'reilly.
It's the leash model, this is the effective way to get any change over the line leader actions, employee involvement, aligned rewards, stories signals and vivid illustrations and then HR systems alignment as well so that's the leash model that he use but the reason i use that is it's a nice segue for the next acronym that i picked out. Which is the art of telling and what you call beautifully www the word wise web Yes. And I know you enjoy the play on words and all of that as well.
And to me, it was like, what is a story? Right? Story is something that captivates you. That's a web and it's made of wise words. So there's like so many things and I go crazy. And my, my family just rolls their eyes when I come up with one of these, you know, and, but i'm not the only one i'm not the, only one. This is And I'm just like, Oh my God, somebody's here in my us. Yes, so I am just super excited, but I think it's powerful.
Stories sell, and I don't have to repeat all the signs on storytelling and all of that, anybody who wants to get attraction for an idea, initiative, action, whatever, people want to be sold on it. We all do. You do. I do. And what is the best way to sell something is to build a compelling narrative, but you can't just have data and facts in that narrative. There has to be storytelling because that's what captivates attention. That's what evokes empathy. That's how you can make it more memorable.
Stories will cut through all the data overload. I'm a scientist for gosh's sake. I know the value of data, but I also know how to weave the data together. And elements of storytelling that just humanize the presentation, make it more engaging, make it more relatable, make it more authentic.
And I've worked on many innovations in my 31 year career, from tapes that keep diapers on wiggly babies, adhesives that go into planes, trains, and automobiles, and, and some ideas have been easier than others. Some more commercially for successful, some unexpected twists and turns, but. In every journey, storytelling was key. So it is extremely critical for driving innovation.
I know for sure in a corporate setting and in times of great change, I can clearly see innovators become the people who have to be the suit seers, the fact finders, and the storytellers. So the way in my mind, it works is there are five eyes to basically innovation, right? First, somebody has got to take the initiative. That's the first eye and you ended with impact.
Now somebody who is highly intrinsically motivated, let's say taking initiative, not a challenge, and they have the passion and resilience and they'll eventually commercialize it and make the impact, right? But the in between three things that come are very critical. And that is you have to inform, you have to influence, and you have to inspire. And that is the challenging piece for many people because having just those two does not guarantee success for innovators to be successful.
You have to play this role and do this. And because just to demystify it, when you're driving innovation, it means you're asking people in your organization to do something, to do something that's different. Whether you're advocating for thought or for action. So you have to have a good story to communicate. Why is it important? Why are you proposing what you're proposing? Why is it important for the organization? So you haven't sold your story till you have told your story, right?
So data and information won't cut it. What do you do? So this is what I say. You have to ask yourself and be able to answer three questions. And that's where the word, word wise web comes in because you're weaving the story for innovation, for the web of people you need. Okay. First question, why this, why now? And if you think about it, that's the inform question. I'm just informing people. Hey, we should do this And this is why I think we should do this. Look what's going on in the world.
Looks what's going on in the marketplace. Looks what, what are going on with the customers. This is the technology. Why this? Why now? Okay, you can inform people. Second is the person that you are asking to make the change or give you budget or resources or whatever, they're thinking, what's in it for me? It's wonderful that you came up with an idea, but what's in it for me? And that's the influence piece.
So that behooves you to understand what is driving this other person, their organization, their goals, and how do I link what I want to do with what they want to do. And so we can both see the win for both of us. And then once you have that covered, the influence piece, it's the what if. And sometimes you may not have done a good job of it, the inform of the influence, because you don't have enough information, the what if.
The inspire can cover up the lack of information because now people are inspired. They're like, wow, is that possible? We'll make it happen. We'll make all these other things happen. And I never want us to be so jaded in thinking, ah, people don't get inspired. I am telling you my journey My 31 years have just been about the beauty of seeing how inspired I get and how inspired people can be. So I never give up on people. I see run into people who are very jaded and I go, don't give up on people.
Do not give up on people. So why this why now helps to set the stage of the reasoning by continuing to ask the why question then get behind each why. Why, why, why, why? Then what's in it for me helps with the change resistance. Once you've got that covered, what if is the question that can really paint a future vision of the wind. So you share the data and the facts and make your story credible, but you have to meet where people are. And that's why these three questions really help.
And what they also do is they compel the listener to ask questions because you just encourage their curiosity. And so sometimes. I will have the answers to certain things, but I won't say it till they say, well, this is great, Jayshree, but have you thought about this? And I'm like, great question. Because I want to tell them that they're on the right track. And now I can answer that rather than laying out that answer. So it's, a game that you learn and there's no malicious intent here.
It's actually respecting the other individual and helping them be more curious. And at the end of the day, I say you need to make people rise up from the data to the information, to the knowledge, to the wisdom. It's called the D I K W hierarchy. And it's only when you raise them up in that is they're going to commit to decisions and actions. So with deft storytelling, you can really help them see the possibilities.
Not just a product concept, you can help see the trends, not just the current status, and you can help them get commitment to the market, not just a single customer. And you can also see that the passionate people can now. Turn into real passionate people, not just some process to turn innovation. So I think we have to be really wise about our why's and that's what these help with. found that one is so much the under appreciated.
Secret sauce of innovation is always thinking in the shoes of the other person because oftentimes we think the idea is enough and the idea is never enough it doesn't matter i think it was ronald Coase somebody said. If you have a great idea don't worry about people stealing it you'll have to shove it down their throats to get them to accept the good idea the better the idea is i was like that.
That's why that ww is so important but moving on speaking of the dynamics of an organization and what's in it for me as an organization matures and grows. It naturally falls into silos. I was only writing about this today. Whereas writing about the mechanistic paradigm that organizations live in and that they're very siloed and they're siloed for a reason, because that's the way , the industrial revolution set things up. It's like, everybody had a piece of the pie.
They manage that piece of the pie and the world is very much changed to your point about the WWW it's networked now, so we need to get out of the silos. And what you tell us there is to dial it up D I A L Yes, this is a very interesting one. So what is the acronym framework here? I'm saying dial it in and really dial up your advocacy full force. D. says, and it's an acrostic framework, so it's not just a word. It is diversity is not about differences. It is a competitive differentiation.
Innovation is not optional. It is the only option. Advocacy is not a passive act. It is about authentic passion and leadership is not just a quality. It is an earned qualification. So, D I A L. It's about diversity, innovation, advocacy, and leadership. That's all what comes together in my mind. And I think if more advocates for diversity, for innovation, and for leadership join forces, we can split the load and reduce that collective fatigue. I mean, that's just science.
It might just be the forcing function for action. So that's why I say, It's an important thing I have learned in my advocacy journey. And that's why another reason Aiden, when people ask me, well, you're a lab scientist. What are you doing talking about leadership and innovation and this and that? And I'm like, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. I don't think in boxes. I really don't. To me, it is all connected. It is all connected.
And advocacy is really the glue that can hold all of these things together. With an amount of passion you can feel because they're all connected in a sense of purpose that can help combat fatigue. In fact, in my recent TEDx talk, and maybe we can Not recent anymore, last year, but we can put a link to that because I actually talk about this. Ask yourself this question. Have you ever thought things should be different or easier or better for those who are coming after you?
Have you ever shown up, spoken up, or stood up for someone or something? And have you ever said somebody somewhere somehow should fix the system? Chances are the answer is yes. If so, you need to dial into your sense of advocacy and give it some agency, give it the legitimacy of purpose, give it the primacy of passion. That's when you'll see, how you can crank up the dial by combining all these things you feel powerfully about. I love that.
, and, that, that authenticity is why I am such a supporter of your work. , cause I think that's the other thing is that you do break the mold, not the science type. And you will receive criticism for that and i'm sure you have by people coming on she's always talking events etc it is so important to be and it's so good for the brand for you to be doing that for the brands you work for to be doing that type of work as well i think that's such an important aspect to lean on and people feel.
They have to stay inside that box their own silo of where they belong the label that's put on them and i think those things are different i think that the world is dramatically change that way and i am such a supporter of. i'm trying to share ideas like yours other people these people on the shelves behind me is to try and inspire people to actually go in and break the mold themselves because there's happiness the other side of that Yes. And so many things are connected.
And so every time people are trying to separate things out and tell you they're separate, Look for the connections and that's the highest level message in Dial It Up is like think about the connections and then you can suddenly Recognize how many of us are pushing for the same thing and it just helps you to reframe deserve word you said that you said it's the glue that keeps it all together and i'm pulling out that i'm using the word pulling it on purpose as well
because one of your patents one of your breakthroughs, hey i'm sure more than one come from, Literally being in a different place, seeing something from a different vantage point points, getting out of the office, understanding nature. And you had one of the breakthroughs with this as well. I'd love you to share that because that was one of the little stories that you shared in the book that I loved. I was just looking for always looking for patterns and such in nature , and stuff like that.
And I, I saw certain things that had, tessellated patterns and so I try to use that in one of my diaper tape inventions. I also saw pictures of how the skins, the surface of of, of certain animals is and We got inspiration from that to, to try out. It didn't quite work that well, some biomimetic structures. And so, biophilic and biomimicry kind of stuff is always very exciting. It's just one of the sources of ideas. And the reason why I talk about that is all around us, it's all around us.
And that's the thing. It's , you don't have to go anywhere. You just have to literally open your eyes. And there's a whole world of ideas waiting for you borrow from and nature doesn't care, you know, that's just the beauty of it. love that. And the book is peppered with those little stories of your own experiences as well. Speaking of which the heart of science book one, you share many of your experiences there, including the many supervisor.
Supervisor supervisee interactions that we have we have so many of them every day and one of the things i think about is i. If those relationships are solid and they're not a drain on you you have more cognitive capacity to be more creative so it's in your interest to actually have a good relationships with people around you, and this is where you talk about the candy candy world and boxes of chocolates so life's like a box of chocolates as far as gum said but you
have a different approach to this. Yes, yes, yes. That's a, that's a good one. So, I was thinking about what is it, and you're spot on before I start. It really helps to have the sense that your supervisor appreciates what you're doing and that you have a good relationship. That just gives you this additional oomph for whatever it is that you want to do and more. And so, I've always tried to think about what it is. My one particular boss who was my boss and and, and really a, a good friend.
What is it that he did, which was so important in that time in my career, right? And, the stats, 50 percent of employees quit their jobs because they're dissatisfied by their immediate manager. So it is so important. And it, it really, underpins an organization's success that people have those supervisory skills. So this is something I wrote for managers to understand. And then I basically draw from all my managers that I've had. And how do you foster that, that relationship?
So I boiled it down essentially to, to three scenarios. And these are the main make or break ones. First one is every boss needs to cultivate. Their employees can do. And when the employee is in this can do mode, they need to get out of the way. Hey, I really want to try this. I think it's a great idea to try. And I'm so committed to this. Let them do it because they will learn as a result and, they're so committed. You can tell there's no point in stopping that.
So start the conversation with how can I help now? They may. What do you think? Is it a good idea? Not then you can have that conversation, but don't try to talk them out of it because once you see that can do. One day you will need them to have that can do. So don't forget that if you nip it in the bud now, you're not going to get it when you want to flip that switch on. It's much better if it comes organically from them.
So when I walked into John's office and I would say, I really want to do this. I think this is a great idea. He'd just look at me and he knew that I was in that mode. And he'd say, Jayshree, how can I help? And then it makes me think and think about the idea a little more. It has a magical impact. So I give the supervisors this gift. When they see their employee in the can do mode, just get out of the way and don't make it about you, please. How can I help?
Because some supervisors do make it about them because they're like, Oh, that's a good idea. Let me make it about me. Don't do that. You will be hated forever and word gets around. Next is counsel the can I do. When your employee is tentative, and you know that you need them to do something, but they're very tentative about that, gently help them see the way. And here the tip I give you is maybe I can help with that.
So this is not the how can I help, but this is a little more, maybe I can help with that. So, oh, John, they're asking me to chair the T6 committee and I don't know I'm the youngest T6. I mean, do I really want to be the chair of this committee? Well, maybe I can help with that. Why don't you want to do this, Jayshree? Well, maybe they want somebody like you. Maybe they want somebody who can be saying all these things, that kind of stuff.
And the third one is coach candidly, show the way and the why. So I need you to help me help you. I am giving you this feedback because this will help you become more effective. And that was much needed.
I'm a very strong personality and sometimes I did things and My boss would be let me help you so that you can help yourself in these situations and they gave me candid feedback and that and they gave me the reason why it was important and that really lands well and so these are the three strategies I think very important to get the sweet spot. With your supervisees.
Can do, can I do, can did, and it's not about candy coating One of my favorite quotes and why my business is called edge behavior comes from sci fi writer, William Gibson, who said the future is already here. It's just not evenly distributed and that speaks to the idea that change does not happen all of a sudden it happens over time gradually at the edges of society in small pockets just i always think of how what's up started i remember.
i was working with a telco company at the time and i said have you looked at the threat of what's up and they're like oh, that's not nothing to be worried about it's happening in small pockets that's exactly something to worry about because those pockets will join in what's called a network effect over time, put in your book you talk about your keynotes and your interviews on other podcasts which you do prolifically you talk about tnt, p. And that's one acronym, the TNT factor.
And then the other one, which is trends. Yes, that's, that's a good one. I love that one. And I'll tell you why. I love that one because 8 out of 10, times out of 10, my ideas come from those. Because I just think through, and I go into a lot of new areas. So I am not an expert in one area. When I go into a new area, trends is what I look for. And let's explain what trends is.
So, so trends really can bring challenges and they can create opportunities, but it is important to keep a eye on those because this is where things happen. And the, and people are like, well, how do I go look for this? How do I find this? And I say, start with the mega trends. Bye guys. Megatrends are large, they're transformative, they're unstoppable, and you can't miss them. So it's not like you have to go looking unless you're living under a rock.
These have global reach, they're broad in scope, they're slow to form, but once in place, Megatrends are there. Then you have to figure out what are the trends that are coming out of a certain megatrend and what are the trends that will have a wide ranging impact. And for that reason, implications of megatrends is the important thing to look for. And that's why it is important.
To think of megatrends as not fads that change every year, and even the people who came up with the word megatrends say that. Megatrends give rise to trends and then these trends will then manifest themselves as needs, and innovators are in the business of satisfying new needs. So where are the needs coming from? They're coming from these trends. And that's why you have to understand what these trends are.
And I love, and I know you're a big fan also, and she's been featured in your show many times. I'm of course, talking about Professor Rita McGrath. She says in her book seeing around corners, I hope I get this right. She says, Future doesn't happen all at once. It begins to unfold evenly. And that's why you have to see, the snow melting around the edges. You have to see the corners and the edges, like you mentioned, and an early point of view around opportunities that a trend may bring.
And in one of her older books I think she said, these are tectonic shifts, significant changes that can alter like the competitive landscape and create opportunities. So when I started talking to a specific business group about some of these trends and the things that we should be doing that were like, seemed way out there, I knew that I needed something that was memorable. So I came up with the TNT factor and I had a little bomb sort of blowing up.
It's like TNT, trying to turn on the bomb, but also TNT stands for trends, needs, threats. These are arising from mega trends, but they can blow up your assumptions. Once I do that in a meeting, like everybody will remember T and T factor. So I call it T and T factor to be provocative. Those who are able to identify and respond to trends can solve problems and drive growth. So look, you should care about it, your trends, needs, and threats. So then let's talk about trends.
So this is a mnemonic again, and I think this is a very important one. T is for technological advances. I don't have to convince anybody that technological advances change a lot of stuff. And some of the change can happen overnight. Some of it takes time, but a lot of challenge and a lot of opportunity arises from technological advances. R is for regulatory or institutional changes. That is also very important. Regulation changes and suddenly, oh my gosh, we can't use.
this material anymore, or we can't use this process anymore, so a lot of those things you have to keep an eye on. E stands for environmental factors. We all know what's going on in the world, there's climate change, there's all sorts of impact of that. Resource depletion, there's pollution, there's, it's increasingly influencing business decisions and it's influencing consumer behavior. Then is natural events. It's natural disasters.
It's, fires and floods and earthquakes, but think about those and the implications of that. D stands for demographic shifts, also extremely important. because that impacts everything and it impacts politics to what people buy, what people like, what is yesterday, what is canceled, what is not, who has the buying power, who has the decision making power. Very important to consider demographic shifts. And last thing is social attitudes. So that's what forms the mnemonic.
So let's say you have been given a task to come up with some. New ideas in a particular area. That's the first thing you should do is look at the technology landscape, see what has changed, see what other technologies that people are talking about and kind of just assemble that picture for yourself and others. Look at all the regulatory changes that are happening, impending, have happened, how they have impacted, how does the marketplace respond? Look at the environmental factors.
Well, we're going to make this widget, but how does climate change impact it? How does this use get impacted? What about the energy? All those things, natural events, where it might be useful because of this and that that happens, or this area is likely to have this happen because of this volcano, whatever. Demographic shifts, how they have evolved, how it has changed and then social attitudes about what you're doing.
And I guarantee you, if you look at all of those, you will have a very rich mosaic in your head to come up with the right ideas. And that is so important. Thank you. Look at these changes at a local level, look at them at a national level, look at them at a regional level, look at them at a global level. I mean, there's so many layers to it that you can go into, but these are the main categories that I find myself going to when I look at that. And it's not just the trends, but the interlinkages.
And they may be, emergent trends, evolutionary trends, behavioral trends, unstoppable trends, counter trends. But the idea is to spot the patterns. And then harness them, respond to them, driving growth and innovation.
Beautiful. I I'm going to suggest we put the book down for a moment and turn towards, cause I said, we'd use that word again, mosaic, we'd create a mosaic of your work to celebrate all the work that you've done and include at this stage, a couple of collaborative articles that you wrote with those great guests of the show, you just mentioned there, Rita, for example, and indeed Amy Edmondson. So for those people who are worried, we're finished with acronyms. Don't worry.
Help is on hand Yeah, that one I love. So I'll tell you, Aiden, why I came up with that one. So I've been in the lab, right, for 31 years. I have a lot of friends who are in labs in different organizations. And one thing started becoming more and more evident as new styles of leadership came, that there was a chasm between the business community and the technical community. And not just in my corporation and in a lot of corporations, I started seeing some of those gaps emerge.
And so the primary message that I took to Professor McGrath to Rita was that I'm beginning to see that and that impacts the ability to bring innovation to life. And by gosh, at a time. When business leadership is crucial to deliver science based, scalable, sustainable innovation, that's what the world needs. 3M does this survey every year on the state of science and we see people saying that's what the world needs.
So if we are really going to solve that problem, this problem, And so this is where I bring my unique vantage point and point of view is like, I sense that is a big gap and we need to cover this chasm because that is what's going to allow us to bring out this innovation. So, and Rita agreed, and she was so kind, I have to say, so kind that she agreed to work on an article together in this that was published in Fast Company.
But the basic framework that brought to life through that article was something that. I crystallized to four things that I think that are problematic in how business people and technical community interact with each other. And this, I have to say is more off late, probably because business leaders are cycling through their jobs a lot faster. A lot of them have so much pressure to deliver on the short term. And when you have a pressure to deliver on short term, you know what you short change.
And so all of that, I wanted to bring to light. So not that they're bad people, it's just the pressures that they're under. I just want them to have an understanding of how to make this chasm sort of narrow or even bridge it. So first I noticed that a lot of business people want to make a singular bet. Huge bet, hundreds of millions of dollars. I mean, who doesn't want that?
However, these ideas are not just sitting around and we're not stupid technical people, just waiting for somebody to tell us what to do. So this hedgehog mentality, which I call emphasis on doing one big thing, this comes at the cost of very important little things that may matter a whole lot more in the long run, but you, in your quick cycle through a business may not recognize that. Yeah. So that's the first thing. Watch out for the hedgehog mentality.
Second thing is when you're cycling through roles, you rely on expertise that you think people should have, functional expertise. However, when you need innovation, you have to rely more on skills. And technical people may not have the business expertise, but given their typically longer tenure and their critical thinking mindset, they want to be involved in all the assumptions you're making for business. And. provide input into key decisions.
So if you're like, well, you don't take care of technology and I'm going to take care of business and don't do that, that expertise management is not working for you because here you got a ton of smart people whose skills you are not using because you're relying strictly based on functional expertise. So that's the second. expertise management. The third is what I call leveraging mindset. I'm just here to leverage what you already know so we can do some quick things or whatever.
Now, wait a minute. You want to do this one big thing and you want to do it quick and you want to leverage. Let me tell you this. You cannot continually leverage as leaders rapidly cycle through. You have to learn to leverage. So if you are just coming in with this leveraging mindset, that's a lose lose proposition. New learnings are critical to be leveraged for innovation.
So if every leader comes in and wants to leverage what's already there, or what's already known, hmm, what does that mean for innovation? And then the last one is the prioritization model that many leadership roles seems to think holds the key to their success and their legacy. They have this perceived ability to determine what is more important compared to the last person, right? So I'm gonna prioritize. We're working on too many things. I'm gonna prioritize.
And so can again and again and again going through prioritization while the important thing is sustained focus. Like if we just kept sustained focus, we would do so much better. So help is Hedgehog versus Fox mentality. Expertise versus skill management. L is for leveraging versus learning mindset. And P is for prioritization versus focus model. So stated in another way, I'm saying is that business leaders, you need to balance these better.
Don't just go doing the Hedgehog expertise leverage prioritization. Balance the hedgehog with the fox, the expertise with the skill, leveraging with the learning and prioritization with the focus. So sometimes that's the help the organization needs and never forget as a good leader. Ask the question, how can I help you?
again it comes up this idea of thinking from the other person's perspective first and then working backwards as well the whole time keeps coming up over and over again the next one i'd love to share is. What came to mind actually when i read this article i'm gonna link to all these articles by the way for the people interested as well as where you can find the books etc and indeed.
TED talks this one was an article that you called with amy edmonson again former guest of the show and what i thought of here when i read it was there's a beautiful my own quote i love my own work and she said people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did but people will never forget how you made them feel and this works beautifully for this next one. Yeah, so it's interesting that you brought this one up.
So remember the time when there were there were so many layoffs and then there were these bad town hall meetings that went viral? And I was just like, how, how is it that you are in that role and you don't understand the basics of what the organization is going through? Because some of these viral, I'm sure you saw, but they were very much going around in the U. S. where people got fired and, some blanket town hall, the pity city.
And I mean, there was just obnoxious, I would say, leadership sort of communication stuff. So I started thinking about it and saying, what are the things that people get wrong? And I started taking notes. I started talking to a lot more people and getting more ideas about town halls and things like that. And then I was like, has anybody thought about this and talked about this? And I couldn't find anybody at the.
Person who talks about psychological safety is Professor Amy Edmondson, so I Was able to connect to them through Professor Rita McGrath, as I said, very kind, and we were able to publish this article, which I'm so excited about because I cannot tell you the kind of validation that that gives, that you're on the right track and you have some reasonable ideas, and that's why I tell people don't, if you really think you have an idea worth sharing, and
it is not about you, it's for making leadership better, for making the organization better, I think go for it. So what this is about is. Oh, and I looked up the social science research. So I do try to back up what I'm saying with research because I'm just, I'm a home cook, right? But I want to make sure it's consistent with what other chefs do.
So there's a broaden and build theory and psychology that says that positive emotions are what lead to higher creativity, better problem solving increased ability and increased action towards finding solutions. And so positive emotions is what we need. In the business of innovation, and one of the things that has a direct impact is employee morale, which took a widespread hit with the layoffs and, bad behavior and all of that.
So I started thinking about positive emotions, increased engagement, improved resilience, Heightened optimism, enhanced social connections. All of those are needed for innovation. So everything that people talk about, the leaders talk about should energize employees and boost morale so that creativity and innovation can thrive because that's the need of the hour. So what are those four things? One. Acceptance before excitement.
Before you come in and say, okay, we laid off, a thousand people, but now I'm super excited about this, streamlined organization and dah, dah, dah. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. People are still processing the fact that their friends are no longer here. People are also processing the fact that Survivor, why am I here and why were they laid off? There's all this sense of loss and uncertainty.
So instead of immediately steering the narrative towards, Oh, I'm excited about the future first, except that there may be emotions percolating within the workforce, show your empathy and your understanding, because that is what builds trust. It lays the groundwork for this later excitement because now the employees feel heard and supported. So, don't push for excitement without accepting the uncertainty and anxiety any change brings. Because without that, you will be perceived as tone deaf.
Number 2. Acknowledgement before appreciation. Don't be just going thank you, thank you, thank you. What are you thankful for? Acknowledge the challenges that people have faced because the thank yous are just, they're running on empty. You need to take time to recognize and understand the unique circumstances and any curveballs. And this acknowledgement lays the groundwork for that thank you that you're going to follow, that makes it more authentic.
Gone are the days where you can just do this mere formality. You have to acknowledge what the employees have gone through and then say, I thank you for that. So don't express generic appreciation without specificity about challenges or sacrifices. Because if you do the obligatory thank yous and you seem insincere, everybody thinks of that as an expression of hubris. Third is assurance before reassurance.
You can, reassure people, but that's not going to quell their concern unless you clearly tell them why you are assured of that we're going to take care of this. Like, tell us the plan and the rationale, please. We're smart people. We just want to understand. Don't say it'll be fine. Tell me why it'll be fine. So before you delve into a reassurance, communicate the plan, the rationale, crisp explanation, and that initial assurance can then set the stage for subsequent reassurance.
So it should not be perceived as, what, what are they saying? But it should be a genuine commitment of what is going on. So don't offer repeated reassurance without thoughts about how challenges will be handled. If you just do reassurances, they will perceive your leadership as arrogance. Because you're just saying, well, it'll be fine. It'll be fine. Last one is alignment before accountability. You hear a lot of people saying, well, they'll be held accountable. They're accountable.
They're accountable for this. If you did not secure alignment, Don't be using the word accountability because that sounds so punitive, so punitive, and it sounds like a, to employees, it may sound like a threat. So once alignment is established, accountability discussions follow naturally because they are framed within this collaborative context that we have alignment. And so this helps in making that accountability talk feel less punitive. and contribute to team culture.
So don't emphasize that people will be held accountable before ensuring alignment and alignment takes a lot of work, but that is your job as a leader. So talk of accountability without gaining alignment really comes across as punitive. And what does that create? A toxic culture. So I say, do this, not that. And that is tone deaf, hubris, arrogance, and toxic. Don't ignore anxiety. Convey acceptance before excitement. Don't be generic. Provide acknowledgement before appreciation.
Don't omit the talk of challenges. Do offer assurance. before reassurance and don't sound punitive, build alignment before accountability. And I think many, I've seen many leaders who are able to walk this tightrope of, balanced yet effective communication. And they can thread the needle through employee morale and innovation. And that's, what's important. And that's where the virtues of, empathy and authenticity and transparency, they become essential pillars for psychological safety.
And that's why I was really excited to partner with professor Amy Edmondson. And I think executive communications, my gosh, that's a skill really to ace and to broaden and build. And it's so important because of its impact on innovation.
So i said we'd top and tail with leadership which is unusual for innovation but I'm often asked why do i do shows on the brain and biases on leadership when the shows call the innovation show and it's for these exact reasons that innovation is like so many leavers need to be pulled in the right place in order to create the right environment for innovation to thrive like 3m, so understanding all these different things is so important because i got them right.
There was stuff i was guilty of where i contributed towards my failure and getting change over the line and i think there's so many of us fall into those traps and we always blame the organization as well and the organization does have some blame sometimes but when you point the finger there's three pointing back to yourself and i live by that principle now even in every argument that i have a go what did i contribute towards but one place.that we both have an onus on ourselves is
leadership leadership of ourselves but then leadership of the organization i said we top and tail with leadership and we're gonna tell the show with leadership and your views of leadership, That was a early article I wrote. And now that I think about it more, the leak proof leadership that we talked about, this is the toolkit essentially for that. And so this is a chapter in the blueprint. Because I think this is extremely important.
And again here, I was trying to think through my own experiences, and also experiences of others, and then looking at the literature to see how people talked about them. And sure enough, people talk about the long term and the execution, so let's talk about the scope of leadership. So metaphors again, and I like metaphors because the imagery that they give is so powerful. You don't even have to use words after that, but leadership is.
essentially having a spectrum of views so you can develop a viewpoint. And that's your viewpoint from which, the vision and the strategy and all that emerges. And I feel like it's never too late or too early in anybody's journey to remind themselves of all the faculties and tools that we have to get insight into the spectrum of views.
Because more you practice, even though let's say you're not aspiring to be a functional leader, The more you understand these views, the better you're going to be able to advocate for your own ideas. And so this is really, I think, a combination and preparation of skill and mastery to do these favorable outcomes. And metaphorical thinking, of course, very powerful tool. So think about telescope and microscope.
So critical for leadership because telescope is what gives you the long term view, right? And you can see. What is not visible to the naked eye, you can look at that. You can look at the microscope and again, you can see what is not visible to the naked eye. You can see , the detail of what needs to be done.
These two, , the grandiose telescopic vision and the microscopic detailed vision, having a good balance of how to understand the telescope and microscope, very important skills, , very important skills. However, a lot of things happened early on in my career in the, in the product platforms that I was in, where the telescope, the long term vision and the detailed execution through the microscope all was great, but something happened that came out of left field literally, but did it.
We're only focused on what is in direct line of sight, telescope, microscope. But what about the periscope? A periscope is designed to look over and around obstacles that may be obstructing one's view. How important that periscope is, I found out. And that's why you have to think about the trends and the TNT factor and all these other things to continually build your mosaic because there are things which will not be in your direct line of sight. And you will, as a leader, have to deal with them.
So might as well train the periscope. What is it that I need to look around, look around obstacles? What is the obstructed view? Why am I not seeing it? It's not in the telescope. It's not in the microscope. But by gosh, it can be very important. So I can't be submarined with just that view. I need to have that other view also. So we got telescope, microscope, and periscope. Is that all that what leadership is about? No. Heart. Heart.
You can engage people with their minds to do certain activities, but in order to inspire innovation. Gosh, you need to get them at their heart. And to understand that human beings have heart, you have to realize you have one too. So you have to listen to your heart and your intuition and engage teams in ways that might not be tangible. So now you have to see something which can't even be seen, only heard. And it can only be heard if you really put the tool to it.
So that's where I brought up the stethoscope. And I think leading with heart and inspiring your people by capturing their hearts, that's what innovation takes. And that's why you and I talk about leadership, right? Because that's what we need, the human element. So now you have the telescope. You can see far.
You have the microscope, you can see the detailed execution, you've got the periscope, and you can see things that are coming out of left field, and you have a heart, and you can lead people with heart. One more thing that is still needed, and that is the horoscope, which is the fact that there will be good or bad luck.
And I am People will say maybe I, I'm pulling in Eastern philosophy into this and other things, and maybe I am, but I really feel that sometimes we subscribe to this idea that it will be done because I said so, and it'll happen exactly as I planned it. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. There's a huge part that we don't even know, understand and will ever comprehend. And so horoscope is my ode to that. The good or bad luck that we'll encounter because it is just part of our fate or our destiny.
It's not that we give up, but we have to understand that we don't control everything. So all I want here is a little bit of humility that yes, role of luck. Was there. I didn't get here only because of what I did. No, there was a whole bunch of things that had to happen in the stars and on the planet that allowed me to get here. So that's how I put this into practice. The telescope look far ahead. Ask yourself, where are you going? See what the big picture is for the team. Great.
Microscope, look deep down. Think about what you're doing. Deeply into the detailed view, deep down into the organization. So even when you look far ahead, way out in the future of the organization, deep down into the last person at the factory line. Periscope, look out, look over, look back, look around. See what is not in direct line of sight. Anticipate what might happen. Proactively identify opportunities. Stethoscope, look within. See what cannot be seen but only felt.
And listen to your heart and that of those around you. And the horoscope, look above. See and acknowledge what you can't control. Be grateful for the luck and chance humility makes for authentic leaders. And what I say is good leaders strive to use all these views to truly enjoy the kaleidoscope of leadership. beautiful what a beautiful white will i will finish it there cuz it finishes on the heart as well and the heart is very much.
At the heart of your work as well and that's not an acronym i'm talking about right there and I want to say as well, all the proceeds of those books go towards women in STEM, Jayshree, for people who want to find you, where is the best place to find you? LinkedIn, I'm on LinkedIn every day. Please follow me there. And if the ideas resonate, please uplift them so that we can spread the word.
And also that way, I guess more visibility for the books and, the books are really good for you to read, but as well, what you take away from it isn't the only thing. What you give back to society also matters. It is a pleasure to have welcome you once again on the show and actually this time do it right so do a long form episode and cover your mosaic of work three m's first ever chief science advocates.
With 80 patents to her name jay shree Seth thank you for joining us Thank you so much for having me.