Getting the Senior Team Onboard with Alexander Pett - podcast episode cover

Getting the Senior Team Onboard with Alexander Pett

Jun 10, 202424 minSeason 26Ep. 527
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Episode description

Mastering High-Stakes Conversations for Corporate Innovation

In this episode, we dive into the essential techniques for leading high-stakes conversations to secure senior-level commitment to corporate innovation. Our guest, Alexander Pett, an expert in executive team dynamics, discusses the crucial concept of 'productive tension' and how recognizing and addressing disagreement can lead to authentic agreement and commitment. Pett outlines practical strategies for effectively framing issues, maintaining engagement, and navigating political dynamics in boardroom settings. Tune in to learn how to prepare and communicate strategically, ensuring your innovative ideas gain the buy-in they need to succeed.

00:00 Introduction to High-Stakes Conversations

01:31 The Importance of Productive Tension

05:23 Pre-Work and Stakeholder Engagement

07:12 Creating and Maintaining Productive Tension

08:44 Communication Skills and Self-Awareness

18:30 Frameworks for Effective Dialogue

20:55 Final Thoughts and Advice

Corporate Innovation, Senior Team Engagement, Productive Tension, Executive Leadership, Alexander Pett, Aidan McCullen, Corporate Explorer, High Stakes Conversations, Leadership Strategies, Boardroom Dynamics, Effective Communication, Innovation Leadership, Pre-Meeting Preparation, Organizational Change, Executive Buy-In, David Kantor, Group Dynamics, Empathy in Leadership, Political Savvy, Agreement and Advocacy

Transcript

Aidan McCullen

Welcome to the corporate explorer series brought to you by wazoku. Wazoku helps large organizations create effective sustainable innovation ecosystems that accelerate efficiency gains and new value growth. It does this through intelligent enterprise software that connects and harnesses the power of employees suppliers startups universities and the unique wazoku crowd of seven hundred thousand plus. Global problem solvers, you can find wazooku at wazooku. com.

The next subject we're going to cover is leading high stakes conversations, getting the senior team on board. And we've an expert in that Alexander Pett, welcome. Thanks. Great to be with you, man. Great to be with you. And we're moving along on the book and we're at, I was telling you before we came on air about the importance of this. And I wonder, did this actually become.

So important that it should become before everything else should be even like in the preface of the book and it like this is like how to get you on to the pitch if you're gonna be playing corporate innovation corporate exploration in the first place and i thought i'd start with a quote here that will speak so truly to our audience they'll hear this and they're gonna go oh man i wish i did that cuz that's what i read you said getting and sustaining a senior level commitment innovation is the top.

Of every corporate explorers. List for critical success the typical corporate approach is to have a good news story to tell positive customer feedback technical achievements on the product development roadmap and new partner signed up however you tell us the good news story approach is a trap it lowers tension in the senior team making it harder to talk about substantive issues resolve challenging problems and get authentic agreement.

So you think you're making progress and then when you get to real progress You're totally undermined by somebody. Maybe you'll tell us what's going on here. And what do you see in the field?

Alexander Pett

Yeah, well, I think the main principle on my mind there is that if you're going to create agreement, you've got to find the disagreement in the room first. But we're so wired to advocate and push for our thinking to be identified and understood and agreed with. That we're often not looking for it or looking for the signs of it. And that's where this concept of productive tension comes in. So I get the privilege of sitting in lots of executive teams and boards.

I'm in there to help develop them and their effectiveness and help them think about how they're delivering their strategies. And so in that process, as I observe them at work, I often see corporate explorers coming in to pitch their ideas. recommendation. They're thinking, they're update getting buy in and maybe from the point of early investment even just for early experimentation. And so I see the result of that and I can see when it's working and when it's not.

And that sense of, do you want to find the disagreement or are you over advocating trying to steer people to an agreement is one of the first traps.

Aidan McCullen

I understand this. I've done this. You've worked so hard to get that idea over the line. You've worked so hard, you've Aligned people behind the scenes you have this boardroom moment and you want to sell that idea and you don't want anybody criticizing it is almost like it's become your baby so you're suffering from the ikea effect in a. plethora of other biases. And the moment comes for you that you say no, you want to introduce the idea of tension in the first place.

So maybe let's introduce what you do, because I'm jumping straight here. And we'll do a longer episode in the future, because I'd love to do more on this. I think it's so important. But the whole idea of introducing tension, early productive tension in the team becomes so important with the people who ultimately the people are going to fund the idea and make it live in the future. Yeah, I think the two initial thoughts on that.

And the first one is, in my work, I would say that it doesn't matter how competent, capable, experienced, values driven you are how phenomenal your brain is, if you can't deploy that contribution through conversation. And so it is the deployment tool. It is the engagement tool. It's how you actually create and enable change. So that's step one. Step two, then, is needing to be conscious of how you create this level of, as we're calling it, productive tension.

And I'm going to describe the levels because I think that the basic level is low tension. And then people are thinking about, well, who knows anything they're thinking about the previous meeting, the next one they're sneaking in some emails into the executive meeting or something like that. And then it's obvious when you've got too high tension, when there's people that are doing immediate pushback with a heightened level of frustration or irritation or impassioned disagreement.

And actually Just either side of productive tension, you've got two zones. One is passive engagement, and one is passive resistance. And the problem is, they can both look like productive tension, and they're not. One is, I'm nodding, smiling, huh, ing. And I'm not necessarily engaged. And the other is, I'm doing the same, uh huh, huh, but actually, I might be irritated, or starting to think, no, there's no future in this.

And the critical element that's going to pull you out of that is, do you create? The production tension how you maintain it and actually how you close the whole conversation off to be sure you've really got a level of authentic engagement in buying that thing you talked about so the the nodding the person in the room or the persons with their body language saying everything about the hate your idea if we go back a step and go.

You have to understand that as a corporate explorer there's going to be resistance because you could be maybe changing their value or their perceived value in a company maybe they think i'm gonna lose my corner office maybe i'm gonna lose some of my team maybe. The company is gonna reallocate some of the investment from my department to this new budding idea so you gonna have all those reasons behind it as well and i thought about how really what you should be doing.

Before you encounter that person is maybe going meeting them beforehand and maybe you share a bit about that so behind the scenes before this boardroom conversation ever takes place what type of work should you be doing as a corporate explorer.

Alexander Pett

Well you mentioned it earlier in terms of catching up with individuals preparing them. Especially working for stakeholders who might be more resistant to understand their concerns, but also make a really compelling case for as they bring leadership to the whole organization this is something for them to support. Often I find this dilemma in executive teams and in boards, but particularly executive teams. This idea of being a whole company executive first and then their functional lead second.

And often that's misplaced or misbalanced and the over emphasis is on advocacy and protecting of someone's own function or business area. So there is something about you're trying to enroll people into that role of leadership for the whole organization and leadership for its longer term future as well.

So there is something about even the pre conversations can be inviting someone to take that perspective and to step up into that higher order, a level of leadership where they might make choices that feel that they are perhaps taking funding and support from a core part of the business, but for good reason. So there's a mature element to that dialogue. And that one on one work is pretty key for that, I think.

Aidan McCullen

Most of us have encountered that person in the room where we didn't do our homework. We didn't read your chapter. And this person has been quiet the whole time. You think you're right at your you're at the finish line of your presentation, but thinking you're about to get sign off, and then they pipe up. And then you maybe become defensive. And the whole thing just tumbles. That's the moment. That's the moment. I we've all been lot lots of us have been there. And we regret it.

And it's this pre work that needs to be done. So I'm going to show on the screen The five steps of how to create tension and maybe you bring it, bring us through this from framing the issue all the way around.

Alexander Pett

Yes, definitely. Just one thought about your comment then. Even when you do good pre work you can always be surprised and what we're not really dealing with here is the sort of political dynamics as much where. You're working with high integrity, but you're also being quite skillful politically. And you're very aware of the dynamics in order to set things up well.

So even when you think you've got agreement, sometimes you're just surprised and there's something going on politically you weren't quite aware of. So there's that challenge. But even in that moment, before I talk about that, the sort of the methodology, there's that need when you get the pushback to really be Disciplined in making yourself curious rather than either over advocating or becoming vis-a-vis defensive and that rather than that. But this is the reason why.

No. Tell me more about why you're concerned. I want to understand that. And even though it can feel like you're giving the detractor airtime in the executive or the board, it's the most crucial thing. And what I've really noticed over what 20 years of doing this work is that people are rarely stuck on a memory of not having been agreed with, but people are really stuck on not having been listened to. And sometimes from 10 years ago.

So that sense of the listening and the validation of someone's value in their comments is a crucial part of enrolling them in that moment.

Aidan McCullen

So let's before we go to the framework, I thought about this because I went this communication. The all these skills are skills that we should be taught as children even because our relationship should be better and even like you said there it's going back to it could be something in school it could be something your parents did and even like for example if i'm having an argument at home my wife and the kids around i'll tell the kids when they're and going right back to when they're younger.

It's okay for this to happen , a healthy argument is okay as long as you don't lose it as long as you don't lose it like in the boardroom, but I think that piece is so missing from not only a corporate explorers world, but most business people's world, most people's world

Alexander Pett

I mean, this is a really Fundamental part, I think, of being effective as a , corporate explorer which is there's a sort of higher level of awareness and personal self possession, I think you need as well. And to make the point my daughter is 12. Her classmates parents are both neuroscientists. And I'd read this research that 10 percent of our perception, as it's through our eyes, And 90 percent is pre programmed. I was like, that's pretty challenging.

So I asked them over a barbecue in the summer. They're probably like, Hey, we're not at work. Can we just eat? But they very kindly engaged in the conversation. And their reply was, it's more like 98 percent is pre programmed. So there's this need to genuinely buy into the fact. Although I can function very well on a daily basis, there is a flaw and I have a set of blind spots and there's stuff that I just can't see.

And if you go into a meeting like this with that knowledge embedded in your gut almost, then there's a readiness and a willingness to think, what can this person see that I can't see, that needs consideration? And if you don't and you do the opposite and you over advocate, you'll get defensive. Okay, now you just put yourself further back and you don't look so credible. The other colleagues in the board meeting,

Aidan McCullen

but isn't it seen as a weakness? That's one of the problems we come from this steady state business environment, the Gordon Gecko type character that has to have all the answers are seen to have all the answers. And oftentimes that person in the room, the boardroom who pipes up at the end undermines you. There's a fear driving that, that they're maybe going to be exposed in some way.

Okay. I thought about that there's a great quote of david eagleman brilliant writer about the brain and he said your brain is essentially. In this dark dark room watching a theater through your eyes of what's going on through all these tentacles which are all your sensors and emotions to tell it what's going on and if we understand that if we just accept that like you say then you're gonna go look, , we cannot know what's happening out there.

So therefore we need to engage all our people, all the people around us, our families, our children, as these sensors for more information around us.

Alexander Pett

Yeah, , if you think about the capability, experience and knowledge of the people you're sitting with in a meeting room. And seeing that as , a source to tap draw on the insights and be compelling enough to get their attention and actually engage them well on the subject, then that's a pretty important moment.

Aidan McCullen

We're going to bring the frame up on the screen now for audience and I'd love you to take us through it.

Alexander Pett

the starting point. is how do you actually create productive tension? How do you then maintain it? How do you close off the conversations and do you know where you are and you know what is expected of you next time you're back in that room with your executive stakeholders. But even before that point is, well, how are you going to start to get attention on the issue in a way that will create the productive tension and draw the perspectives of those in the room right onto the right topic?

So the idea, first of all, is framing. There's a lovely Scottish saying, an answer framing saves a pound of time, that I heard years ago. But the framing, what are we actually here for? And there is this critical thing is, what is this conversation for? Because quite often I've listened to pitches, and only partway through do you realise what they're here for, what they're actually asking for. And that sense of purpose is so crucial for getting attention in the office.

So first of all, this is a conversation for what is this a period? This is the early time of investment? Is it buy in? Is it collaboration support needed for early experimentation, or whatever it is?

Aidan McCullen

That'd be nice at any meeting. Agenda would be nice for most people. Sorry to interrupt.

Alexander Pett

Not at all. And I think that's the frame to start getting attention. And that's a brief, it's sharp, it's to the point. But what I noticed is that when corporate explorers get this right, I see the attention pick up in the People draw away from maybe the phone they've just been doing a bit of texting on and start to engage. The second one is what is the issue or the opportunity or the actual, area you want to focus attention on? And with that comes the stakes.

This is the what if we do and what if we don't. Why should the individuals in the room care? And what's important about this is we so often talk about why we care, not enough by why others might care. And so that sense of pulling up into the bigger picture of you mentioned earlier, what would draw the attention of this group, what would invest that goes into be invested in the conversation and actually participate fully, that's pretty significant. And then you're into the conversation.

And actually what the crucial connection between this, the name mistakes, and compared perspectives is to ask the question, let's find out what people are thinking here. Now clearly there might be some particular structure or process, there might be some information you're looking at, but you want to test early on, really early on, what any reflections or any comments at this point, any, anything people need to understand more before we press into this conversation.

And this idea of early engaging, and you watch when individuals advocate too much. The simplest way of describing it is like a triangle. Think about all the research, analysis, insight, data, information you've got that's taken you into that room. And the risk is often that people share the wide base of the triangle, and build up to the point, rather than the other way around, which is actually what's the point, and you can dip into the other pieces of information as you need it.

So you're seeking the different perspectives in the room, and this is where you're going to find some supporters, maybe some detractors, or people with different points of view. One of the traps here is you can start to get multiple points flowing in the conversation, multiple moves, and we'll reference that framework in a moment. And then suddenly it's pretty hard to actually make sure the thread is maintained. So a level of assertiveness is really required.

So actually before we move on to that point, I'm conscious that you've got these three different points in the room already. Let's handle those. Is that okay? Yes, that's fine. Good. And off you go. And that sense of assertiveness isn't objectionable. I, in my experience as exec team's board, just want clarity. Where are we in our conversation? And if you don't take responsibility, quite often the chair doesn't necessarily, and then your credibility is hurt.

So make sure you've got that right flow, and you'll pick off the point, and then you get the other points coming through once the early ones have been attended to. Then we're looking for the common points. Where's the alignment? Where are the concerns? Can you chunk those up? Can you sum them up? And you've got to work out, do they need resolving then? How are you going to report back with that information? But you're giving a clear sense of the lie of the land and testing it as well.

That's what's so crucial. That sense of involving the board or the team in the process. In that moment, and then there's an agreement on what's next. And so there are four steps. There's clarity. What are we here for? Are we having the same conversation? We've got the same expectations. There's recognition. What level of buy-in, agreement, alignment or disagreement is there to that topic? And as you work through that, you're getting in place to commitment. to the lead to change.

And the two traps are one, that over advocacy early two, then jump into action, rather than really taking enough time to make sure you've got that level of clarity and the recognition in the room before you move to get agreements. That's essentially the cycle you're running through. And you might find you run through that several times in a meeting, depending on what's required.

Aidan McCullen

And probably with different departments as well, because you're bringing almost this slide deck Or better than the slide deck the conversation on tour with you and you get better every time you go through that conversation

Alexander Pett

that's right and I think that sense of again what the people in the room need why should they care being a real critical focus

Aidan McCullen

one thing I thought very deeply when I read about this was that I truly believe corporate explorers are neuro diverse they belong somewhere Similar on a spectrum and they have similar traits they have resilience they have creativity they can sense changes in the environment that others can't see or sense and it's like a waterbed effect you get these skills but you don't get some other skills and some of the skills you're very much missing are the communication skills or being able to.

Sell your point with empathy for the people in the room and i thought that that's why this is so important and hence probably why you're in business as long as you are doing this work because we all need help in that respect.

Alexander Pett

Yeah that's that's the key developmental stage and this is going back a bit to childhood but call the theory of. Other minds or theory of mind is sometimes referred to, which is when you learn, actually, you're equal to everybody else. And Aidan, that's not your toy. That's Alex's. Give it back to him that kind of thing, which gets embedded. Okay, we are all in this together. And there's sometimes I think with people who are really much more extreme in personality, you're often innovating.

Of being successful because they're slightly myopic about their own thinking. And that is a gift to the organization. But it's helping those individuals in particular just really pull back from that intense advocacy for their thinking and recommendations to the broader conversation they're required to actually create and facilitate. If they can think actually their job is to own the conversation in the room, not just own the outcome, then that's a helpful mindset.

Aidan McCullen

Brilliant. And again, you bring it all the way back to just basic communication skills that we don't learn. And one of the great tools you advocate for in this chapter and in your work is David Kantor's work. I thought we'd share that as another helpful framework again, we'll show it on the screen. And I'd love you to take our audience through this.

And I just want to say, We're going to come back at a later stage, Alexander and I, we're going to do a deeper dive into this because it's so important to help you succeed.

Alexander Pett

Great. Well, I really like this framework. What I like about it is we could do 40 days back to back of looking at group dynamic frameworks or models or analysis. And this is cut so simply through what are people likely to be doing in the room. And David Kantor says, there are four things you can make a move. Hey, here's my thinking. Here's my recommendation. You can oppose actually I don't agree. I see it differently. You can follow. I agree with you, Aidan. I think that's the right thing.

Actually, what we could do is, that kind of bringing some energy to it. And there's bystand. Bystand doesn't translate brilliantly. It sounds passive. But actually, the bystander is looking at the dynamic and where the flow of conversation is and commenting on that. Actually, hold on a minute. Before we go to action, I heard different views in the room, which sounded significant to me and if they're not answered, I think it's going to slow us down later. Does that sound like a fair concern?

And I think there are two others. There's asking questions and answering questions as well. But this work gets the heart of the flow of dialogue. What is and what isn't helping make progress. And there's this lovely technique where you can just assess a dialogue from each person's name, who's moving, opposing, following, and bystanding. And you get a sense of the pattern developmentally. But for the Corporate Explorer, there's a real need to notice, where are we?

Is there too much follow and not enough oppose? And you think, surely it can't be this easy. Well, it probably isn't. Something isn't being surfaced. You might be in that passive engagement or even passive resistance. And I think as well, that sense of being willing to facilitate the dialogue, looking for the oppose, following up on the support and just making sure you've got an appropriate mix you'd expect to have when looking at an issue that might be quite challenging to those in the room.

Aidan McCullen

When you think about what people who take up innovation roles buy into in the role, it's like innovation labs, creation. You see the role is very very political you have to be this brilliant salesperson you have to be a facilitator in some ways there's a lot more skills there and i think, that's the great thing about a book like this and your work is that you bring it to the fore and shine a light on the need for this.

But one thing keeps coming back to mind and i'm thinking of maybe as a final thought is again that person in the room. Who undermines you cause you talk about that and i was brought up old wounds for me cause it happened a lot for me and then i know good therapist i don't know if they could do that work. Even, like you say, you do this work, sometimes you're going to come across those people. What's your advice for when you do?

Alexander Pett

Yeah, I think, a helpful phrase is good communication lies in the response. I don't know where I read that, but I think it's a really useful challenge. Because the moment you're not getting something, typically what I'm going to do is blame you. And actually that's a problem because I have to take responsibility for what's the quality of my communication and how do I own helping you get something.

So I think that's the first step for me, which is I've got to own that and own how else might I engage with you. I think the second thing is that, you're just inevitably going to hit blocks. And so the political work, the pre work, the follow up and having enough advocates in the room, of course, is a key part of doing that. But the main challenge is that outside the room, we're all cool and calm and we can think very straight.

And I've sat with corporate explorer teams doing their prep work, and they just have got run through their presentations, really sharp, really clear, really looking to get a dialogue flowing, and then you watch them in the moment, a little bit of pressure, and then it tips usually into over advocacy, defensiveness, tension goes too high, and then someone else has to intervene to try and change that, then the credibility of the individual and the project starts to suffer.

So it's that sense of really being prepared, really know what your real work is, and that how you handle it can be as important as your answer, because the moment you start to look defensive, then others might start to buy in less to your recommendations.

Aidan McCullen

And they're looking for that weakness sometimes as well. Alexander for people who want to find out more, not only read the chapter in the book, I'm sure you have much more writings as well, much more in you as well. There's so much more in this, I thought that it was hard for you to get it into the chapter that you had in the book. Where's the best place to find you?

Alexander Pett

Well, you'll see my profile on the change logic website have my work with change logic. And then for my river leadership work, you'll find me on LinkedIn.

Aidan McCullen

Alexander, Pett, thanks for joining us. A pleasure.\ That episode was brought to you by Wazoku. Wazoku helps large organizations create effective, sustainable innovation ecosystems that accelerate efficiency gains and new value growth. It does this through intelligent enterprise software that connects and harnesses the power of employees, suppliers, startups, universities, and a unique Wazoku crowd of 700, 000 plus global problem solvers. You can find Wazoku. A B Corp. on wazooku. com

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