E87 - Phase Zero: The Hidden Advantage In Change - Podcast With Amy Yackowski

It first starts with getting into the right mindset of change and understanding what the impact , and the emotional impact specifically , change can present to anyone .

So when we talk about this idea of phase zero , we really focus on helping prepare individuals , teams , leaders and the organization for this change that they're going to embark on through their mindset , through the ways that they're communicating with one another , and for the ways in which they are collaborating and working together to challenge these stated norms , these

ways of doing in pursuit of something greater , something better , something new , something possible something possible .

In this episode , I am joined by the insightful and bold Amy Akowski , founder of Painted Porch Strategies and a passionate advocate for building shift-ready teams and leaders . Together , we dive into their critical , often overlooked period before change officially begins , a space Amy calls Phase Zero .

Phase Zero is where emotional readiness , mindset and organizational truth-telling take place . It is the terrain where insight is gathered , assumptions are surfaced and success or struggle starts to take root . We explore why skipping phase zero can derail even well-planned change , how to navigate time constraints and how AI tools like Copilot can service early insights .

Amy also shares how stoic thinking shapes her work and why change must be personalized , not one size fits all . Whether you are a project lead , a change manager or just navigating another wave of workplace evolution , this episode offers a fresh lens and some very practical tools to help you start smart right from phase zero .

I am grateful to have Amy chatting with me today . Well , amy , thank you very much for joining me in the Inner Game of Change podcast . I am very grateful for your time today .

Often what happens my background has been in software implementation and operational change for about 20 years and often when we think about change , we just fire the gun , we have kickoff and we start planning , doing deciding , testing , executing , training . All of those things kick off right at this initial phase phase zero .

But what I kept seeing time and time again over these 20 years of working alongside these organizations , that , as eager as they were to possibly embark on this new journey to upgrade their new technology to optimize their operations , they recognize that what they had , what they were doing , what they were using wasn't working today , even though they had , you know ,

if we use , like the ad car model , they had awareness and desire , but they didn't necessarily have capabilities to effectively engage in this game of change . Change is not simply just executing project tasks , creating training materials and , you know , doing UAT testing or validating your ideas .

It first starts with getting into the right mindset of change and understanding what the impact and the emotional impact specifically , change can present to anyone .

So when we talk about this idea of phase zero , we really focus on helping prepare individuals , teams , leaders and the organization for this change that they're going to embark on through their mindset , through the ways that they're communicating with one another and for the ways in which they are collaborating and working together to challenge these stated norms , these

ways of doing in pursuit of something greater , something better , something new , something possible .

I came up with this but I was inspired by by a book called Persuasion by Robert Cialdini , and because he talked about what happens before you influence in your messaging . So there's a phase before that . And then I discovered also that the military does this all the time . They gather intelligence , they understand . I also know that sports teams do that as well .

They gather intelligence , they understand their playing conditions . But they all seem to have a luxury which we don't usually have in the workplace , which is time , because time in the workplace usually equals resources and cost . Most projects somebody's got an idea , you know .

They gather a group of project people and then get on with it and they give a timeline of a start and an end , and so we're always constrained by all of these forces . What are some of the ways to navigate our way around those constraints at the workplace ?

Be it changes in the market , your competition demand , whatever might be happening , you know , customer , customer changes , worker attrition , all of those elements pile up to basically make it appear as if you don't have time to plan , you don't have time to prepare .

I would counter that and say that if you don't take the time to prepare , the time will be made for you once you hit a certain threshold in any change initiative that you are pursuing .

I would say I don't have the stats right in front of me , but historically most changes of some sort big , large , broad , narrow they typically are not happening by their , you know , spaghetti on a wall , deadline , go live , due date , whatever was set and often they result in having cost overruns .

And most of the time those happen because of the lack of planning . And when I say the lack of planning and preparation , you can have the most beautiful project plan out there Shout out to my PMPs who create gorgeous project plans .

But that project plan and all of those tasks and those activities and checking them off are not an indication of change success , because change ultimately , at the end of the day , is 100% contingent on an individual , a team , a leader's and an organization's ability to effectively change .

And when I say change , it's not just starting to use a new system or starting to execute a new process , but it's actually this transition , this adaptability from what is known , what's familiar , what's safe , what's repeatable , to something that is unknown , untested , uncharted waters that they're going down . Time is going to demand itself .

are an experienced change professional , you always know that time is not going to be on your side . And so the situation is that what capabilities do you need to bring to the table to really manage that ? You know navigate around the time constraint , because time is one of the three constraints for a project manager . That's what they live by .

You know you've got your time , budget and scope and we're going to have to respect that . So I always think that if you're in a good space , as in your capabilities , you can always find ways to create your own phase zero , even though the project started , because usually Often I have to .

So I think it's an excellent question about , like , how do you be with the parameters that you work with ? And I think , for me , while I have my ideal and I'm sure people will argue with you that I will I will definitely push for as much time and as much resources that I can get in the span of time that I have .

But I I think the biggest thing is to number one right out the gate establish with the organization you know what's the level of disruption that you are willing to take on within your organization , and most organizations will say little to none , but that's impossible when it comes to change .

So , first and foremost , establishing like , what are we working with here ? And then finding ways to work within that . But one of the key things that we like to do really upfront , to try to get ahead of it as quickly as possible and to start doing change .

Well , in any project is to get a pulse check of where people are at , so understanding what you know . That can be a combination of a risk audit . But we also look at it through the lens of the individuals and the teams and their mindset . How are they feeling about the work that they're doing ? How are they showing up ? Are they feeling burned out ?

Are they feeling overwhelmed ? Do they feel like they have the support and resources that they need to be successful ? How are they working as a team ? Do they work together or not ? So much Is it like a team in name only ? How are they no-transcript what you know , what , what your risks and what your constraints might be ?

That doesn't mean the projects get stopped . Some of them they're going to . They're going to happen . Come hell or high water . These projects are going to move forward .

But the sooner that we can recognize where there are opportunities , where there are challenges , obstacles and risk , then we can put together a much more I'm not going to say aggressive plan , but thoughtful and intentional plan to help prepare these people for change , because that's ultimately what all of this is about .

The change going to a new technology or implementing a new operational procedure that you have should all be in service to how your employees , how your organization , effectively executes what it does , and that is all predicated on people doing the things that you need them to do , but that they also feel confident and capable to do .

And so creating that context and that awareness of where are we at now we know what we can do , going forward is key .

The other thing that I look at , amy and I need your input into this One of the most important things is actually to look at the leadership of that impacted team .

I pay a lot of attention to that because and you can come across different types the type that are really interested in the trend and the type that says , well , I'm busy , where do you want me to be there ? And then you've got the third type , which is usually absent and there , and then we just work on the team . What's your take on

that ?

I always like to say that when resistance presents itself or even apathy either one , when resistance and apathy presents itself , that's just the surface manifestation of something deeper that is going on within that individual .

We talk a lot about in our programs and in our training about understanding the different styles , the different change personalities that you might have within your organization , and once you gain a little bit more awareness and clarity

into what these different styles are , it helps you better know what they need and how to engage with them and how to have those conversations . Yes , there is definitely leaders that are too busy .

I have one that's happening right now where they are too busy for me and the change that we need to have done , or they would just prefer it to happen and they don't . They're not really involved in it , they don't get their hands dirty and how I navigate those . I am , I am stubborn , I'm Polish , so I do try to force a little bit . See how much I can .

I can get here , but also I like to just have those one-on-one conversations with them to understand a little bit more . You know , yes , you're pushing back , you're saying there's not time . What's really going on here ? What ? What is it ? What is it that you feel is at risk ? What do you feel is not clear ?

You know it's having these conversations leaning into that curiosity and through doing that you you're not going to necessarily get them to completely flip and be 100 percent on your side , but at least you provided an opportunity to create some context and alignment on what it is we're trying to achieve and why it's not consensus always .

We're never going to get consensus when it comes to change , but if we can create a little bit more context and alignment with what we're trying to achieve and the importance of their role within it , usually I can get them to come along to my side .

It takes a little bit of time , I will say , and maybe it's just my persistence and squeaky wellness , but they definitely eventually come around . But outside of that , I really lean into creating strong change networks within any project . And those change networks , while they can include leaders , they are not made up of leaders .

They are made up with individuals who are boots on the ground , doing the work , part of teams and that in a sense doesn't I don't want to say it circumvents the leader , especially if a leader is resistant , but it creates that network of awareness , network of collaboration that if it had been a top down directive , you might not get as much .

There's an author , greg Sattel . He wrote a book called Cascades and he talks about how change in society has often happened , especially through different movements or revolutions that have happened throughout history . And the way he talks about , as he says , small groups loosely connected , aligned to a shared purpose or vision .

And that's the type of mindset that we like to try to create with the culture , the organizational , the organizational culture approach , with these networks that we like to build within any project that we're creating .

So it's not reliant solely on leadership top down , but we have awareness where we might have some resistance and lean into helping create the support that they might need , so that way they can come along for the ride .

But you also , during that conversation , you made me think that I talked to a group of project managers maybe a couple of months ago , where they wanted to know more about what a change manager can do , because for them , unfortunately , change managers are just writing a couple of communication pieces and all of that and I'm thinking , well , that's a good start .

I mean , that's fine , they can do that , but let me take you through what they can do for you to help you manage your project better .

And then one of the things I was sharing with them is that , from now on , promise me that every time you've got a project and you've got the luxury of having a change manager helping you , I was asking the project manager to sit with the change manager and ask them tell me how you know the intelligence and the insight that you gathered so far and why this

particular change strategy for this particular project . You should be interested in how we design it and what I'm trying to do here , trying to create those conversations . So the project manager .

We need to educate the project manager , as well as the leader , about the importance of these pieces , and so they become expectations , and I think that can nudge a lot of change managers to pay attention to this particular critical period of time .

The other thing is that I always find it fascinating and I ask the question when was the last change that happened to this particular group and what was it ? Who was leading it ? What was the sentiment ? All of this insight can actually help me whether this team is going to be open or closed , because this is all historical data .

One of the fun ones I like is organizational anthropologists , and I think that's very true and we think about these change leaders , change advisors , change partners that you bring into any project . Advisors you know , change partners that you bring into any project .

Our primary role is not comms and training that is some of the work that we often do , but we are really there . One of the primary reasons we exist is to help prepare the organization and its people to successfully change , and the people is the key piece of it . It's not about checking off tasks and to do's .

It's really creating the environment and the opportunity for people to lean in , to engage , and I like to say , have the confidence , courage and curiosity to change . And that's really what , from my lens , my role is .

In any , in any engagement that I work within , I am a partner , I am an ally and I'm an advisor to this larger organizational goal that they're trying to achieve .

And I love your part about having the project manager kind of linked in with the change advisor , change consultants or change manager that's on the team , because they do need to work in tandem with one another . They are partners in the shared success of the organization .

They're just working in different , I'll say work streams or lanes , but everything that each of them do is very much reliant and contingent and in support of the other .

When I sit with the leaders , I ask them next time you've got a project and you've got a change , you will have to ask the questions to their project team . Walk me through your rationale of choosing this particular change strategy or others . You will have to be interested in how much work has been done to understand your team .

So I'm trying to prepare the recipient of the change as well , and and they find that really helpful because for them , oh , I didn't even know that I need to ask all of these questions .

I thought these guys will will need to do what they need to do , and for me , but that is impacting your team , and so you should be keenly interested because the change has got repercussions Like . I strongly believe that there is a strong correlation between the way we manage the change and employee engagement , and it happens all the time .

We ask people about how they feel about the change and the surveys and I really like that around the courage , curiosity and confidence that you mentioned . That can be your next article , amy , to talk about that . So there you go , you're welcome In your experience . Does that mean that framework like the ProSci and the Carta and all of these models ?

They do touch on that , but do you think they need to be more overt about those things and perhaps be as overt as a phase zero ?

If you do X , y will happen . If you do , if you do a , b will happen . And that's rarely the case when it comes to dealing with individuals . We are complex , we are diverse . We all interpret , believe , have experiences with change differently .

So , even for me , with the way I've structured my painted porch , our strategies , if you will , we pull from all of them , because all of them do have great insights and and tools and methodology that you can use . But we really pull from many . We use ProSci , we use Kotter , I use LeanChange .

I have some others that I lean on from MHS and from some research done by Harvard , research like organizational development type of approaches . All of those together create what we like to do when we approach change .

I like to say I have 10 kind of keystone things that we want to ensure in any change project that we are making sure we do to some capacity , but the details of the how and the when we achieve each of them really does need to be something that is more agile in its approach .

It does need to be adaptive because , week over week , the context is going to shift a little bit .

The needs that are present , that are necessary at this moment in the project , are going to need to pivot , and we need to be able to be flexible enough to pivot along with it , as opposed to saying like nope , nope , nope , we're at stage two and we have to now . You know we have to complete all these things before we can move to stage three .

It's like what is the business need in this moment in order to ensure that we're making meaningful progress forward ?

And I often like to look at it in the inverse , in that we I again , I've been doing this . You've been doing this for a long time , you know , over , I think you said , 15 years or so .

I've been doing this since , oh , six , and over that period of time I have regularly seen the same patterns recurring time and time again in projects where we get in a room really smart people , you know , the experts in their field , the experts in their department , maybe even the highest achievers in their role .

We get them in a room and we start to think about and design something different and fast forward six to nine months .

We get to the other side of it and we find out that we've recreated exactly what we have today , and once we do that , we end up reverting back to what we've already done , or the new change , the new technology , whatever it might be , is more of a burden than an enabler .

We get into meetings where we can't make a decision , we can't get to agreement , we can't get alignment on what needs to happen next . We just keep circling the wagons , the budgets run over , you know .

We just keep bumping into these very similar barriers that we see time and time again , whereas if we take the time to help individuals get comfortable with uncertainty , to practice a little bit of failure , to work on how they give and receive feedback with one another , to , in essence , stick their neck out , to challenge sacred cows , to develop new ways of

thinking or doing , to strip away the how we do it from the why and the what we're trying to achieve by putting the work in there early , that will allow for a lot quicker and more effective execution of the project .

Once you do officially have that kickoff and all those smart people start to be gathered into those rooms , it's really , in essence I don't want to oversimplify it , but it's really learning how to people with other people . That is effectively what is change readiness , this phase zero , work . This is the work that often is overlooked in any organization .

We tend to focus on technical skills . I come from staffing , so it's how to be a better recruiter , how to find more leads , how to convert them quicker , how to calculate margins right , all of those pieces .

We focus on the technical pieces of success , but really where , as organizations , were able to most effectively adapt and pivot and change and innovate is outside of those technical skills of our job . It's really the peopling within and alongside one another one another .

So basically , before a project , we do what we call a pre-mortem , which is we ask the questions , two , three critical questions . So we look in the future and we think your leader is actually standing in front of the steering committee and the project failed miserably . And then what would they be talking about ? And then we look at those things .

I always find this exercise as an unhappy title as it is , I always find it really interesting because it basically helps us almost foresee some of the issues that can be encountered , and then they will list them as sort of the risk that we're going to have to mitigate over time and neutralize this pre-mortem exercise . I see that in the phase zero as well .

And the other thing that you mentioned , you know , around the return on investment , the zero space .

It's actually pretty clear that you know so many projects will have a cost overrun and all of these things , and that's all due because we haven't spent a lot of time understanding the impact and I strongly believe that projects fail purely because we haven't understood the impacts of these changes .

I mean , you look at even in governments , you know policies change , policies fail is because we haven't understood the impacts of these policies and the change space is the same . So phase zero is one of those critical aspects that can give you clear direction if the project is going to struggle or not .

I'll give credit to I don't know who , who introduced it from you know more modern project management , change management principle , but our company is called Painted Port Strategies and the name of the company is a nod to the philosophy of stoicism , which is the philosophy of the streets back in ancient days and the philosophy of the everyman , of the people .

But one of the premises that they talk about as part of the stoic philosophy , one of their core principles , in addition to the dichotomy of control , what is within your complete control to ensure and to execute . But one of their other ones , it's called premeditatio malorum .

And premeditatio malorum is just that it is thinking into some extent , what's the worst that can happen , what could go wrong .

But it's not in an exercise to be a Debbie Downer to say here's all the reasons why we shouldn't do this , but instead it's meant to be the exact inverse where we think about , to your exact point , where we think about , where could we have failure points . We like to envision this like a roadmap .

So where are you going to encounter obstacles , detours , alternate routes , boulders in the road ? What are those things ? How are they going to present themselves ? And we do that not again , not to say what we got to pump the brakes , we got to turn around and go back , but instead so we say , ok , what's our plan ?

How are we going to plan for when these things potentially happen ? So that way , when you are in the thick , you are you know , know , you're on the road , your journey is kicking off , the clock is ticking , the budget is starting to you know , the money's starting to go out . You're keeping an eye on all of that .

That way , when and if that situation does present itself , you already have a plan in place . You're not trying to make the decision under excessive urgency , constraints , time , etc . You already have a plan . You're making this decision very clear headed , because you've already planned for what needs to be done in this instance .

But I think you touched on one thing , which is the hesitancy to do the impact report , and I think that all goes back to the courage to have uncomfortable conversations , and that's really one of the keys that we like to focus on in this phase .

Zero is getting comfortable calling things on the mat , versus pretending like it doesn't exist or figuring out that you'll deal with it when you need to deal with it . Instead , it's having the courage to say how ready are we really , how prepared are we really ? And when it comes to that ROI , you're right .

It's ultimately as much as we like to think as organizations that we are the exception to the about 23% success rate , as much's as much as I like to think that the organization is an exception . The natural next question , not to be condescending , but it says what makes you so confident that you can Like what work have you done ? What preparation have you made ?

What capabilities can you confidently speak to with your teams and your leaders and your organization that would ensure that everything is going to go smoothly when you start this project .

I asked them to include me and give me access to all the information and previous information as well , and so I asked in a naughty way , I asked co-pilot at Microsoft , I gave it all the information and then I did exactly what you did . What you're talking about is a phase zero .

If I'm going to implement a project for this team , walk me through some of the insight out of the chats , out of all these conversations , the emails , and I thought , oh okay , well , that's another tool that change managers can use to give them a little bit more information , and it will neutralize the element of time constraint .

Even rethinking the way I execute assessments , knowing that I don't have to have them be so , I'll say , formulaically restricted in the way even it's structured , you know , having a scale of one to five or agree , disagree , you could literally just ask open-ended questions and get free text answers and from that put it all into an AI tool , whether it's Copilot , or

you create your own GPT , for example in ChatGPT , and you can make sense of what otherwise can appear to be just a bunch of disparate information .

Another thing that is really cool that I've started to play around with is when it comes to who is involved in a project , the different project players , both at the you know sponsor , the project team , your change ambassadors , your leaders , creating some personas within them , within your GPT or your AI tool , and then , when you're presented with any particular need

or a situation that arises within the project , or even a communication . You can actually ask the tool to say , okay , based on the personality of this project manager , for example , that I've structured what might their biggest , what might they might what they ask about , what might their biggest pushbacks be ?

Where might they be hesitant , where might they be leaning in and getting a little bit more information and insight from that , so that way , when you think about the communications and the connection in those , those conversations that you're crafting , you can lean on having a little bit of that demographic , psychographic info to help inform how you need to communicate

and share information with them .

You know and so and you are a human you're going to have to validate does that make sense ? To me and most of the time , the beautiful thing about the tool is now and it will get better it will actually give you evidence of why it's come up with this assessment based on the words and all of that .

Usually that takes ages to actually decipher and sometimes it's an opinion , not a fact , and so I think that's going to be another layer that will actually help us move forward . I am aware of the time we are coming close to the podcast . I'm thoroughly enjoying this .

Usually , the question that I ask my guests Amy , what would be your advice to people like me in the business of changing communication to walk away with when it comes to phase zero of a project ?

Whether it's something that you've more formally assess , there's ways to suss out , you know the different type of change personalities or the change styles that you might have within your organization or on your team , but take the time to learn that , so that way , when you are presenting and communicating change , that you're not trying to treat this as a one size

fits all and that , ultimately , change is an individual endeavor supported by an organizational effort .

And so making sure that , while we don't need to create custom , custom engagement , custom experiences for each person , we do need to keep it in mind that we all interpret and have different beliefs and opinions and approaches to how we do change and what change means to us , both personally and professionally .

I hope I can get you back in the future and perhaps tackle this idea of technology , and I think by the time we're going to talk about this , hopefully AI will be part of our workflow going forward . How would people connect with you , Amy ?

I always like to say , even if , if you're someone who's simply change , curious , you are interested in this thing called change , or you know that you're about to embark on a project , or you have one that maybe you're starting with and you're a little leery about where you're at in your phase , we can always connect it .

I'm happy to help shine a little light and provide a little guidance for you so that way you , your team and the organization can be successful and come to the end of the first step in the journey more reinvigorated revitalized and excited for what's possible .

Remember , and in my opinion , change is an enduring force and you will only have a measure of certainty and control when you embrace it . Until next time , thank you for being part of the Inner Game of Change community . I am Ali Jammah and this is the Inner Game of Change community . I am Ali Jammah and this is the Inner Game of Change podcast .