E69 - Effective Change through Middle Managers - Podcast with Nicole Gahagan

And organizational change is the aggregation of individual change and middle managers , because of their sheer volume , have a wider reach or further reach than executive leaders can , in order to make that possible .

Today , I'm thrilled to welcome Nicole Geigen , an author , a high-performing strategist and organizational change expert committed to improving employee experience and organizational effectiveness . With her vast experience , nicole has honed a distinctive method for fostering change .

Renowned for forging relationships , achieving agreement and inspiring various groups of stakeholders , she reliably delivers significant results . In this episode , we will dive into the pivotal role of middle management , which Nicole aptly calls the linchpin in managing change . We will explore how middle managers enable their teams to adopt change .

We'll discuss the critical influence they have in driving successful adoption or potentially hampering it , and the strategies they can use to enable their teams . Additionally , we'll examine how middle managers can act as effective change agents , leveraging their unique position to ensure alignment and cohesion throughout the organization .

I'm grateful to have Nicole chatting with me today . Well , nicole , thank you so much for your time and welcome to the Inner Game of Change podcast . I'm eternally grateful for your time today .

Effective transformational changes have really been a hallmark of my career , which has spanned over 20 years so far , in both private and public institutions , two-year and four-year institutions , and I've had the honor of facilitating a number of large-scale efforts that help to improve cultural , structural and operational conditions that measurably improve the student and employee

experience . I spent about half of my higher education career in middle management and the other half in senior management , and it was actually during my experience as a chief student success officer that I became really intrigued by the change agent potential that I feel like is packed into the middle level leadership ranks .

I was about midway through a three-year transformational change project when I realized my executive level change leadership was a lot less vital and relevant to the successful operationalization of the change initiative than compared to my middle management folks , like our associate deans and directors , and so this intrigue ultimately led to my doctoral research about how

mid-level managers make sense of and subsequently enact their role in the context of organizational change , and you know my interest and my expertise in organizational change spans beyond that critical role , but it's often what I help executive leaders understand in terms of how they can structure and support those mid-level leaders .

So essentially I'm thinking about anybody between the what we would consider the executive cabinet and frontline employees , so anybody who falls within that range Anybody that can translate decisions into actions 100% yeah .

Do they need to understand their role in the context of change ?

And transformational change really demands coherent and shared understandings across the organization in order to enable those cohesive actions collectively aligned across the objectives of the strategic initiative .

And I think because of their network centrality right , their hierarchical and relational positions within organizations , middle managers can really be leveraged , their positionality as well as their multidimensional relationships , to be especially helpful in achieving organizational change and democratizing that change as well . So it doesn't feel so top-down .

What's your take on that ?

I think leaving the result up to that type of change leadership offers a lot of maybe divergence from the intended outcomes and could cause more harm than good in terms of change saturation and initiative fatigue that especially frontline employees might end up feeling . I think , unfortunately , that's often the case .

Middle managers typically don't understand and aren't given directives in terms of what their role should be in the context of change , and I think that that's senior management's responsibility to help structure and support that change through creating the right environment , attending to that individual as a middle manager , as well as attending to the relationships and the

intentionality with which they help to structure the relationship building that middle managers engage in .

One of the best examples that I've seen you would know this that when we manage a change within an organization , some organizations opt to completely get a project group outside the business operation to run the project and the middle management will be receiving that change and with the ambition that they will sustain it after the project finishes .

But one of the best examples that I've seen in my own experience is that I did work on a project where we needed to manage a very critical piece within a university . The structure was different . The structure was it was led by the middle managers three of them and we were the support , and we were the guidance and we were the advisors .

Is this how you see support happening for these that you talked about ?

I think , like I mentioned , they have the technical expertise to understand what has to happen operationally to sustain a change and they also have the relationships to help anticipate what some of the thoughts and feelings might be about a change the thoughts and feelings of their direct reports , maybe other frontline employees , and even those thoughts and feelings of

their peers because of , again , where they're positioned within the organization .

And so , if their input is garnered and their ability to enable their network in a way that casts the breadth and depth of a change process , I think institutions are more likely to achieve their intended outcomes , because employee engagement , as I like to say , is a logical and emotional choice and middle managers have the ability to help the change make sense for

people and help connect it to their work . And organizational change is the aggregation of individual change and middle managers , because of their sheer volume , have a wider reach or further reach than executive leaders can , in order to make that possible .

So I do focus on in my own practice around the notion of change experience and creating a positive change experience for the employees , and I think that's one of the enablers for employee engagement , because only through a positive change experience a staff member can feel that okay , well , the challenge has been communicated to me , they understood my needs , they

trained me , they supported me , and then they listened to my concerns and there's always an avenue for me to seek help , and so that's usually the pathway for a positive change experience .

Unfortunately , sometimes in a world where the middle manager is overwhelmed with the usual responsibilities of a middle manager , it's almost like you've got two types of operational managers .

Let's just call them operational managers , some of them think that the project is a disruption to their operation and therefore they say to you okay , nicole , you want to roll out this change ? Yep , that's fine , I'm available , do this , invite my team and all of that . So they kind of stand on the sideline when a change happens .

And my advice has always been , on the contrary you need to be interested in what I am talking to your team about , because that is going to impact the experience and the dynamics may change as well . So it's in your best interest to be interested .

Not only that my advice to managers that I work with is that you would need you know your team really well more than me . You would need to dictate almost that type of change management that needs to happen . So it's in your best interest to know why I've chosen this particular change plan and on what basis , and what's my evidence and what's the strategy .

So then it's going to align with good . This is going , this plan is going to work for my team . Am I too ? Am I too ? Is my head too high up in the clouds that I'm not a realist about this ? Or is this how it should really happen ?

The change impacts , right , and the aspects of those change in terms of systems and processes and job roles and reporting structures , compensation , all those types of things that help to live the change beyond the change process proper , right . And so sometimes I find middle managers , when they have the luxury of having

a change manager come in , do become dependent on that individual and make assumptions that folks will just continue to carry out that change on a daily basis and embed it into their operations .

But those frontline employees need the consistent support of their middle managers , because change events don't happen in isolation anymore , right , we're offering oftentimes managing multiple changes simultaneously , and so it's almost like the person in the circus who's keeping all the plates spinning , and I feel like that's where the middle manager comes in .

They have to keep all of those plates spinning for their folks to help provide that direction , that guidance and that consistency in the change process , as well as helping to keep the lights on and manage those operational and sometimes especially urgent tasks and responsibilities as well .

You can keep them in place if you show them that you value their work and that you reward it in a number of different ways , including just generally recognition , hearing their voice and validating it through the decision-making process and through leadership actions that especially senior managers might take .

One of the recommendations that I often make for organizations is that they articulate the expectations for middle managers that change leadership is going to be part of their job , so that way it is a known factor when coming into that role and those individuals electing to come into the middle level ranks have an opportunity to consider whether or not managing change

is something they want to do and can also compare it to their knowledge and skill sets . Right , so they can come into that role making an informed choice . And you know those middle managers will also , of course , benefit from the training and things like you had mentioned .

But I also think it's critical that senior level managers create an atmosphere where the organization can be ready for change and that senior manager sponsor changes in ways that validate mid-level leaders change related actions as well .

I feel like that type of both explicit and implicit support and recognition of a mid-level change agency is really critical to keep that linchpin in place so that they don't become frustrated and decide to leave .

Do you think the role , the nature of the role of the middle manager in a higher education setting different from a normal organization , you know , fully-fledged for-profit organization ?

community , public opinion right All of these stakeholder groups that oftentimes have competing demands , and so I think that's what makes middle management and trying to lead change in a human-centered approach challenging for those middle managers in this environment for those middle managers in this environment .

I strongly believe that one of the best ways we can help middle managers manage a change is actually explain to them not only the first level of impact , but even the second and potentially the third if we are experienced enough , because only by explaining the challenging impact you can alert them to what they need to do and what decisions need to happen .

Have I got this close to right ?

One of the things that I help walk middle managers through within my organization , or things that I suggest during the trainings that I offer , is to develop a stakeholder perspectives map and try to anticipate what's important to those various stakeholders and what that impact on them might be , and then to develop their strategic narrative about the change , addressing

genuinely , of course , what those impacts are and what those needs and expectations of those various stakeholder groups might be .

Because I do believe that there's going to be an impact on the way we run our operations . Do we need to reimagine the role of a middle manager within an organization , let alone higher education ? But let's start with the technology question . What do you think of specially

generative AI ?

For example , Another way that I've seen it used is through helping to analyze large sets of quantitative and qualitative data .

It can help you get the same results but in a much shorter amount of time , so that you can move forward with making data informed decisions and move forward with focusing more on the human side of change , because you're not bogged down with data collection and analysis . I feel like AI can help do that for you .

And especially in terms of the student experience , I think there's a lot of opportunity to cut out some of the more transactional work that happens with students so that individuals can focus on the human connections that are really really critical to student success . So staff can cut out some of those more administrative tasks .

I think AI can really help with that so again , they can focus on more meaningful work .

I procrastinated on the idea to get somebody else because I thought I'm going to have to explain my thought process to somebody else and that will be time-consuming , so I might as well do it . Thank you , universe sent me AI to actually do that , probably in a more cost-effective way and faster .

I think it's still early in the stage , but the potential is amazing . One of the first things that I used AI for generative AI is to help me ask good questions in my podcast interviews . So I've got an idea and I've got quite a few things to talk about . So it helps me with that .

But you're right , I mean , like yesterday , I put a paper together and then I wanted co-pilot to give me what sentiment will the reader walk away with from this ? It gives you ideas . I mean , are they close to real ? Probably not , but at least it's like your couch on the side .

So I'm not scared of the technology and even started to make me think about my own role and about the future in 10 years , five years and 10 years what my role will actually be .

This notion in my head that AI is will be part of the tools and the way we do work in a university , especially in higher education , because the focus on use cases predominantly now is on the higher education , and rightly so . Do you think that will impact the role of the middle manager ?

Do they need to play as an advocate , as a mobilizer , as a coach , as a prompter ?

Some individuals think that maybe AI might replace their jobs , and I think that the middle manager can help to open individuals' eyes to what is possible should an AI mechanism come into place to help gain some scales of efficiency in terms of their work .

Right , one of the largest complaints in higher education settings probably everywhere is that there's not enough time . Right , I don't have enough capacity to manage all the things that are on my plate , and AI can take some of that off . And there still can be a human validating what AI produces , but that takes just a fraction of the time .

It would take a human to create whatever data or take care of whatever administrative tasks that AI just accomplished .

So , if a middle manager now probably listening to this podcast and then haven't , they haven't played with generative ai , they haven't touched it and they're probably behind already and the technology is happening , I think one of the pieces of evidence for me that every time there's a new technology , there's always will this work ?

You know the biggest thing , nobody's saying that about generative AI and AI . We know it will work . We know the potential . It's just we're grappling with how can we adopt it ? Where do we start ? And my advice is that , whilst your organization is thinking around strategy and all of that , especially in higher education , have a go .

Have a go and have a play , because only through play you will understand the potential . But burying somebody's head in the sand is not going to be the solution , because if you are in a role of responsibility , you are responsible and accountable for what your team is going to adopt later and you'd better really understand what that looks like for your job .

And the other thing is that it's an amazing technology where , as you mentioned , it will help us focus on the value we add rather than the non-value work that sometimes we need to do . So a piece of analysis you know we've got . Let's just say you've got a lot of information . It'll take you two weeks to analyze , usually with number of hours and cost .

Ai may not be 100% , but that 50% will actually cut your time by half . And then , because you still need to , as you mentioned , the human , still need to scrutinize it , because that's your piece . But I always say some people say , oh , it's almost like cheating , and I always say , well , excel works out all of your formulas and pivot tables .

You wouldn't call that cheating , would you ? That is an AI . It was already happening . It's just a matter of now . It's becoming more intelligent . And what's your take on ? It's not just the middle managers . The senior managers in a higher education would need really to adopt it and understand it as well . Is that your take as well ?

Sometimes , I think , they feel circumvented and they're then often viewed as change saboteurs or change resistors , when that's not the case . Oftentimes it's what looks like . Obstructionist behavior might be the manifestations of role ambiguity or even advocacy for their departments and their team members .

You just made me think around this thankless feeling . You know , because sometimes I do see them tiptoeing around change , you know being worrying about how the change will be accepted by the academics and the researchers , and for me , the researchers in the academics , just like another segment of customers they're going to have to engage with .

So you talked about the phenomenon of if you're in the business of management and leadership , you come to work every day for one reason . This is how I see the world anyway , nicole and . I might be most of the time I'm wrong , but a manager will come to work every day with a single task , which is helping their people succeed .

So it's not really doing the timesheets and all that . These are all tasks that they need to do , but that's not their real job . How they make their people succeed is by making decisions . Those decisions become actions and actions are changes , and therefore it's in their best interest to be so good at managing change and being influences . Have I got this ?

Have I got this right ?

Right , one of the things that I always suggest middle managers do is think about a change process that they've been a part of , what went well , what felt like it was missing , and then what does that tell you about what others might need from you as an individual who is managing change , whether you call it that or not ?

The change will impact the dynamics of a team differently and therefore we ask them to be slightly open to new ideas about how the change will impact the dynamics of a team differently and therefore we ask them to be slightly open to new ideas about how they change . But you were right .

I had a conversation two weeks ago where somebody said I've got a change and a manager middle manager , probably more than a middle manager and these are the steps that I followed . These are the things that I did for the team and I said exactly what you're doing is change management . You are on the right track .

You don't need a degree to be a good change manager . Sometimes you're experienced , you're in the arena , you're in the middle of the action , you know what works , what doesn't work . Nobody needs to tell you that you need to communicate with your team . You do need to communicate with your team , that's your job .

You may not have a communication plan , but whatever you've got can work , and so sometimes

a lack of structure may not help , but that's not going to break the whole strategy for you . So my advice is always have a go . You can seek advice to validate , but have a go yourself , because through having a go you will learn a lot about yourself and you will learn a lot about your team as well .

They have to make sense of the change itself , understand why the initiative is being charged in the first place , what the intended outcomes are .

Then they need to understand how that's going to impact their role as a change manager and what the expectations are for them in terms of carrying out that change , how it's going to impact their team and how they are individuals , so that they can be your partner in the change process .

And I'll give you an example Recently I worked with a manager who's just joined the team from within the organization , but from a different team . But even that is a context . So I explained to them that your team is going through multiple challenges .

The first challenge is that their leader has changed , and that's a huge challenge that they need to really understand and comprehend . And then , on top of that , in your first week , we are bringing you a new , huge change to your system as well .

So painting the picture around , the playing conditions around that really helps the middle managers and the majority of them , I find , appreciate this insight as well , absolutely . Thank you so much , nicole . How would people reach out to you ?

Remember , and in my opinion , change is an enduring force and you will only have a measure of certainty and control when you embrace it . Until next time , thank you for being part of the Inner Game of Change community . I am Ali Jammah and this is the Inner Game of Change podcast .