E59 - Mastering Business Change Analysis - Podcast with Laura Paton

And there's also that discrepancy because project managers and business analysts for years confusion over the roles , but business analysis is happening before we even have a project .

A leader in business analysis with over three decades of experience . Laura's unique blend of project management and analysis skills , combined with her role in shaping the industry standards with the IIBA and PMI , marks her as a key influencer and educator in the field .

In this episode , laura and I discuss the interesting world of business analysis , impacts and ways for organizations to truly leverage the value of this art and discipline . I am grateful to have Laura chatting with me today . Well , laura , thank you so much for your time and welcome to the Inner Game of Change podcast .

I am eternally grateful for your time with me today .

Came out of school with a computer science background , went into software development , wanted to do more , went into project management and then about that time , just an explosion of software from mainframe to desktop and we needed those dedicated resources to get requirements .

So I found that my personality and my competencies and things I liked really gravitated towards being that requirements person , so started off in that direction . And then I was really really fortunate to be around and the foundation in the beginning when IBA International Institute of Business Analysis was starting up and establishing their standard .

So I volunteered and I was then around IBA Pretty much the beginning . I was around for version 1.6 of their body of knowledge and project manager for 2.0 and chair for 3.0 or version 3 that we use today actually to certify business analysis . So I ended up spending 10 plus years in the standard certification space . I did what I did for IBA .

I went over and did for PMI as well , along with having a day job , along with teaching and all that , so really multifaceted , but just have just jumped into the profession and I kind of feel like I've done a lot , you know , set up COEs , coached people , helped people get certified , just anything . I just love it , just love it .

In a nutshell , what is business analysis to the two people like me who are actually not deep into the , into the practice ?

But we learned years and years ago with IBA that the focus is on business analysis , the work itself , which includes , you know that that mind to want to inquire and research and probe and collaborate , and you know , sure , it's the requirements piece , but it's all that other stuff that we do with that analytical minds and skills .

So you know you mentioned job titles .

So we just tell individuals , you know , when we wrote the Baybub guide it comprised of what we saw as business analysis work and then we explained that you know there's tons of job titles out there that are , you know , involved doing business analysis , even a project manager either , even a scrum master , a product owner , business relationship manager .

It's almost endless and we can't control what organizations title their people , but we certainly can , you know , define business analysis , teach it and share that . Many people need to know that that skill , that competency .

They do have titles or roles , focus on business analysis but , across the board , know there are still organizations that Just think that a project manager can get the requirements or the developers can collaborate and get them .

to say she said she made the statement something like a business analyst should be paid their weight in gold .

And when she said that obviously the project managers start thinking what about us and all of that . But I think what she was trying to say Is that you gotta have to have a I think she emphasized it can have to have a good business analyst to guide you through the turbulence of , especially in the early stages . What do you think of that statement ?

Because I think a lot of organizations , if they're trying to mature their practices , they're trying to justify positions or headcount or you know , just new processes , tools , whatever , or even a training budget , and what companies sometimes miss is they think it's just about getting the requirements , so we just need somebody to go out there and document , and that's

just an organization that has missed the whole definition of what it is in the value . And there's also that discrepancy because project managers and business analyst for years confusion over the rules , but Business analysis is happening before we even have a project .

So , yes , to start off with A really high level of value is coming up front to try to figure out whether that problem or opportunity is worth pursuing . And so when we Apply business analysis up front , we can , you know , define the business needs and make sure we really understand what the problem or opportunity statement is and figure out the value right .

There is it worse , based on where we are today and where we want to get to , is this initiative worth investing in ? And so it's through business analysis that we help guide organizations . I mean it really is . We can't do everything right limited resources , limited money and time so we need business analysis to guide decision making before we even have projects .

And so the end result should be we don't do every idea that comes along , and it's business analysis that helps us that that out . So it's a win . If we have an idea , we do some upfront analysis and decide it's not worth it to go do this thing . We save the company . You know a lot of money , tens of thousands or millions of dollars .

So that's value right there , before we even have a project .

So and some of them are not going to eventually to become projects , but the business in best , upfront , in a business analyst role or responsibility , to go through the ideas and the initiatives and then decide which ones Pass the test and which ones probably are not aligned and and so that what really surprised me about ?

Okay , so they are not just part of a project , they work in other areas as well . But , most importantly , it also highlighted to me that business analysis is not so . When you hear people saying Ali's out there gathering requirements , that's not really a quite a true statement .

Is it Ali's out there meeting with the stakeholders and really understanding what the problem is , or the challenges , or the opportunity ?

And then that becomes that data , or pieces of data , becomes information and they can have to think about it and turn it into insight and the insights forms with the final solution or the outcome is have I got this close to right ?

Yes , it's only a small aspect of what we do . It's a task , but the overall value of project manager and business analysis is much greater and we can see the value in PM a lot of times , but we totally miss it in business analysis .

So , yes , you know , making sure that we understand what the strategy is , that you know what we're pursuing , these organizational changes being pursued will align with strategy that we're defining , the we know what to measure , that we . And then , even if we have three good ideas and they all have value , good , strong value propositions there's a sequence , right .

What do we do for second and third ? So we have to help there as well , because you can't do everything at one time yes , yeah so yeah , agree , you are spot on . You know , just doing that analysis and that research and getting people talking and collaborating .

Up front is strategy analysis , where we talk about going out and having that initial conversation , understanding what that sponsor is looking for . What is that business need ? What is the problem or opportunity statement , that collaboration , making sure we're all on the same page as to what that thing is .

Then doing the research and making sure we come out with a recommendation . Do we move forward or not ? The success metric there is did that analysis get done and did we spend the money wisely ?

Then , of course , if it's a go and we do initiate a project , then the next body of success metric would be based on have we done enough research to really define the requirements that we can build from ? Did we do the check and balances ? Talk to the right people , define it in a good way , make sure everybody's on the same page of what we're building .

There's different success metrics as you get further down into more details of your analysis .

Any of those where we have a failure point , where this project is running on and on and on , or we overspent , we deliver something that nobody wants , nobody uses , we have a solution with more features than people are leveraging . Any of those are signs that we didn't do proper business analysis ? There's a host of characteristics , you will see .

Why is there confusion over where we're going ? Why didn't we drive to what the PM's needing to drive to ? It would be ? Maybe we didn't dig deep enough , Maybe stakeholders are coming out at the last minute , Maybe our requirements were vague a host of things .

I find that approach it wouldn't in the long term for the project or for the initiative or for the idea . It would not help . When I go unprepared in my head I'm thinking this person can be better prepared , understanding what the objective of the project is , the context , and therefore they need to have really strong communication skills .

Where do you stand on that ?

I don't overuse them as a way to obtain information from people , because our solutions are getting more complex , Our technologies are more complex and I always find that if you start to go down the path and just keep having too many one-on-one conversations , there's a lot of rework because then you get more people together , which you should be , as a business

analyst , accentuating that collaboration because it's not just solicitation , it's solicitation and collaboration . We need everybody in a room . Everybody knows something different , everybody has different history , have seen different things work and not work , and collectively it's everybody

participating and netting out that conversation . That really involves good elicitation . I think it's a team sport . I'm not a big proponent of just .

There's reasons why we do one-on-one interviews , but it can't be the sole focus , because you just end up finding that person doesn't have the context or doesn't know as much or only knows their small piece or proposes something that can't be done technically . On and on . We just need everybody together collaborating , with the BA leading and facilitating .

You mentioned technology and I can't help but talk about the evolution of nowadays , the large language models and AI and technology . How do you see that enhancing the practice ?

If we have this repository , we can go back in and have this other resource to elicit from or learn from or help us take some of the redundant pieces off of the table for our job . Then we're just that much more advanced , being able to spend time on the things that AI isn't good at , the stuff that isn't redundant , repetitive . So it's a source For me .

I would say if we were updating the Baybok and we were thinking about source of information that we research , ai would have to be an input to it . What can we learn ? Variables for a project . Let's just go with an example .

If I was consulting today and I was with a client in installing Salesforce and I had to do the requirements and configurations , why should I start from scratchers ? How many other hundreds of people that implemented Salesforce ? Why couldn't I just we talk about reusability , but now it's much broader . We have a world to learn from .

I think we'd rather focus on the insight and sharing that insight to help an organization , rather than it will make some tasks more efficient for us . The speed of information also will make it better for us , but I do think that I've read so much about it now and I actually use generative AI .

I'm testing quite a few things in it , like even I created a literally a poster for my son , including his photo , and took me two minutes . Ai is beautiful if you give it context and the context is really important and that context Only rich context comes from professionals . If you are an amateur , like anybody can go and ask AI now about change management .

It will give you all the things that you need to do , but that's not really the knowledge that you want . You want the insight out of that . So what are you going to do with that ? Because we don't become a professional out of a book .

So I see technology as a co-pilot for me , Something that can enable me to get some information probably faster for me , but the thinking process is mine , I need to which is where the value is in any profession anyway , this is how I see it happening .

But I do see it happening in business analysis , probably more than other practices , because there's a lot of dependency on data .

Like you said , have that experience or deeper knowledge , or apply another level to what you're getting back to understand the importance or lack of importance to what was fed to you .

Do you hire qualified business analysts or do you just let that responsibility for the conversation to just be chaotic and just have the project manager running everything , including all the PM responsibilities ?

So you know , do you do every project that comes along or do you actually have an intake process where you spend your money on targeted solutions and you know you do turn a percentage of projects away ?

So if we just looked at our spend and how many projects came in and how much money they were asking for and what we ended up approving , like , okay , what does that equal ?

There should be a percentage of everything that comes through that we don't do right , like we should be able to measure what we saved by doing the right research and shying away from , and then you know how clean are our projects ? Go back to the iron triangle . I mean business analysis enables that iron triangle to come to fruition , right ?

So whatever you have as project , metrics are a window into how valuable how well run your business analysis processes . You can't be successful on a project without business analysis .

And then later I asked Laura hey , how about the patient , by the way ? What happened to the patient ? Laura said , but the patient died . But I ticked all the boxes . And so the idea of completing a project , as dark as it is . You know the analogy . I want to talk to you and I'm a big fan of that .

Every profession should know a lot about a lot of things , and not just my profession . I want to ask you about what are the key capabilities and what are the complementary capabilities you think BAs should have , especially in today's high expectations , rise of technology and complexity of the world .

Well , okay , we don't want to be judgmental , but if you find yourself as an introvert , you have to train yourself to feel comfortable putting yourself out there and having conversations , because if you're not comfortable doing that , then you're going to be that business analyst that sits in the back of the room and just scribes or just take notes .

So you're not going to be proactive , you're not going to be inquiring , you're not going to like to research , you're going to look for everything to be served up for you . That's not what we look for BAs to do . We look for them to love uncertainty , to love change , to always want to know why , go

above and beyond when somebody serves something up , to keep , you know , digging and probing , love challenges , be comfortable and be level headed , because our business , our customers , our business stakeholders , they all love change . They're typically nervous about it , so they're going to love to us to make them assured that we're going in the right direction .

So they have to have all of those . When we wrote the Baybock , I mean we talked about 30 underlying competencies and we could have went and did more than that , but we had to cut it off because the chapter could only be so long , with facilitation . You know your love of networking , collaboration visually .

You know visually being able to pick something , understanding high level detail . I mean there's a lot to it . There's a lot to it , but in the purest sense you can't be a wallflower . You have to question , you have to be comfortable in your skin . And it makes it hard when you're starting off because you know those aren't usually skills .

You come out of high school , go to college , you still have all this uncertainty , right . So us older BAs could certainly help instill that confidence in the younger next generation of business analysts , because I think you need confidence , you know yeah yeah .

I will say from experience , the BAs are always the ones that the more powerful people on the team are coming down on or challenging . So you , you know , take , take a coach with you , have a mentor , have a senior person to help you see how they maneuver those environments , because it can make you feel pretty intimidated when you're first starting out .

I basically was a speaker talking about change management , but I did say , I did make a statement , that all of us in this business are influencers and relationship builders and we're going to have to be good at those two things , because for me to engage with you , I can have to listen to you , but also sometimes you have to influence you , or sometimes I can

have to influence you to share the information that I need from you .

And , as you mentioned , if I sit in a steering committee and I'm a BA and again , I don't see a lot of BAs in steering committees , unfortunately but if I sit in there and I earn a seat at the table , I'd better contribute , and what that contribution looks like is entirely up to you , but it's going to have to be meaningful and enrich the experience and the

conversation . And if that doesn't happen , then I think we missed the mark .

Because , again , organizations , they have no hesitancy at all to understand how to invest into project management and to have PM roles , but they're always hesitant about understanding . Or you know , like , do we need a business analyst ? Or , you know , do they even have a mature practice ?

So you're going to be called out a lot to have to pitch why we have to do X before Y , and you know you have to feel comfortable understanding the value proposition .

But maybe hide everything you do and make sure you stay there , because you'll be the first called out over a project manager who might do some excessive Excel documents or whatever that aren't needed . You know BAs will be more called out than a PM .

And then also , as you were speaking to , I was thinking that why I think business analysis or coming up as a business analyst is harder than a project manager . And I may turn off some PMs . They may not believe this , but I was a PM and I have a PMP , so I'm talking from experience .

But when you're a project manager , you're automatically thought of as a leader . Right , like management looks at you . You may not have staff reporting to you , but on that project you are the lead and people you ask somebody to do something , they go do it right . You have to be a leader in business analysis , but people don't look at you as a leader .

That's the difference . So there's a higher respect for project managers than business analysts but they're equally important , and both of them lead .

So when project does not have a change manager , and then they knock on my door and saying , can he advise us ? I can advise , but I'm not going to say my approach will be he can do this better . I can help you with this .

But let me show you what a full resource of change management can do for you and you don't need them throughout the whole life cycle . Because , again , I'm talking to a project manager who is driven by budget sometimes as well , and resources are important .

So I can educate project managers that you probably need a change manager , but you don't need them , so , cost wise , it'll be far more efficient for you . But I also highlight to them what they're missing out on right now , and I showed that to them as well .

So I work with them for a number of hours and finish and I was thinking imagine this in on an ongoing basis , helping you , and you probably need them one or two days a week , but you can , especially if you actually going at this speed . So we've got our responsibility ourselves .

And the other thing that I did , for example , an organization recently any project update . I added a section in there in the template which was no easy to add , but I lobbied for the importance of having a section to give an update about people , change management and communication .

And unless you have it in that update , people will forget about it , and so these are the ways of of influencing , talking about change management , because I know what BA is do and should be doing .

Every time I join a project , even if it's not at the start , I knock on the BA is do and really want to see all the information they have , because all those pieces of information inform me and educate me about the change which I need to work with the people side of things .

Any other practice and in your experience , do you see a good , solid relationship with the change management community ?

I've been in other organizations where they didn't , but then we had strong business analysts or a team of analysts where that BA took on the role as a change management person , or maybe the sponsor did , because at the end of the day , we need to know the impacts to workflows or SOPs or you know how is this business going to take these changes on ?

They need to be defined and communicated and trained at one point or another right . Yes , so , yes , I see high collaboration , just like you would with the other important roles . You know , the QA and the business analysts , the architect and the business analysts , the designer and the developer .

There's all critical relationships and camaraderie and partnerships that have to be had for different reasons .

So your organization might have a host of different job titles . The importance is , I think , all roles need to understand business

analysis . Everybody on a project team needs to understand it . So that's number one . The second piece is that business analysis isn't just happening on projects . So you're not tactical . We do a big tactical piece of it , and I think that's where most people see their business analysts , because they think you know they're irresponsible for getting the requirements .

Where we started our conversation early on was business analysis , and the value is upfront , whether we pursue a change or not . So we can't do everything . We don't have unlimited resources , so we have to use business analysis in a strategic way to help organizations know how to spend their money and what projects to initiate .

And probably the third thing that I would emphasize and we didn't get to talk about this , but just like we have pre-project value with business analysis and we talked about tactically , the business analysis on a project then the latter is also true .

We have a high need to be doing business analysis work after we implement , and a lot of people don't even understand that piece . But what that means is that we push projects into environments that are constantly changing .

So we put that solution out there and you know , the enterprises change , the external environments change and it continues to change , so we just don't put it out there and never monitor it again . It's an asset , a capability or set of capabilities for the organization .

So we need to keep coming back , applying business analysis and saying Are we still getting the value out of what we built ?

If we are , keep going , but if we didn't , because we have a new competitor or the users are using workarounds now that we didn't envision them using , or our customers have different expectations now , then we need to come back , revisit and decide do we have another set of changes ?

That's how products evolve , that's how IT systems get versions , that's how mobile devices get . The next release is because we have to keep evolving . Business analysis helps us do that as well Stay competitive , keep enhancing our products . Three , project , post-project and on the project .

So we're saying business analysis also going to have to come back and understand is the solution giving us what we actually thought it would be giving us ? So you're looking at that , yeah , okay , so that's really a brilliant point which I haven't really thought about . So I've been consumed by myself in the changing comes there .

But now you're saying that we need to do that , which means , laura , that that would need to be penciled in as part of the project plan at the outset .

But , there's always going to be things changing . So I mean , here's the analogy and I know we're short . But if we buy a car , we do a lot of research up front . We hope that that investment is the right one . That's the upfront right .

And then we get the car , we do the analysis to understand how to use the car right , and that's the tactical piece on our projects . And then we maintain our car . We check and make sure that the filters are clean and we maintain it . So we need to maintain these investments as well . And it's kind of the same concept .

We understand these things in our personal life . We get into business and we think it's different . We just focus on the middle , which is we bought the car , we're building the car .

Thoroughly enjoying this conversation and it's a brilliant point that you're adding here which definitely is going to make me think a lot about how I want to tackle that end of the project or post-end of the project . Thank you so much , laura , for joining me in the Inner Game of Change podcast . How would people connect with you and reach out to you ?

But just connect with me on LinkedIn and then follow me , because I post and I'm sharing stuff all the time .

You've made me think a lot about well , you've even reached my knowledge around business analysis , but , most importantly , made me think about a couple of new things that I need to sort of explore more in details . I hope to get you back at some stage next year , laura , and we can tackle one topic within business analysis and really dig deeper into it .

We go through what I call an avatar into one topic and then see what that takes us . But until then , laura , stay well and stay safe . You too , thank you . Thank you very much . Thank you . Thank you for listening . If you found this episode valuable , remember to subscribe to stay updated on upcoming episodes .

Your support is truly appreciated and by sharing this podcast with your colleagues , friends and fellow change practitioners , you can help me reach even more individuals and professionals who can benefit from these discussions . Remember , change is an enduring force and collectively we have the capacity to navigate it more effectively .

Stay motivated , keep expanding in knowledge and be the positive change contributor in your circles and work . And until next time , thank you for being part of the Inner Game of Change community .

I am Ali Juma , and this is the Inner Game of Change podcast .