E52 - Organisational Change Empathy - Podcast with Patti Sanchez

It stirs a lot of negative emotions in the people who are being asked to enact the change , the people who are impacted by the change , and so they're going to resist .

And if you want to overcome that resistance , as a change leader , as a change communicator , it behooves you to understand what people are going to be feeling about that change and communicate to them in a way that overcomes that resistance and fear and encourages them to embrace this change , to really adopt it , and that takes empathy .

Patty has played a pivotal role in driving transformative communication initiatives for prominent brands such as Cisco , ericsson , hewlett-bacard , nike , semantic , vmware and many others .

The author of presenting virtually communicating connect with online audiences and the co-author of illuminate , ignite change through speeches , stories , ceremonies and symbols , patty has been instrumental in teaching hundreds of leaders how to enhance their empathy and communication skills .

In this episode , patty and I explore the ever important topic of organizational empathy and the role it plays in driving positive experience and employee engagement . I am grateful to have Patty chatting with me today . Well , patty , thank you so much for your time and thank you for joining me in the inner game of change podcast .

Eternally grateful to have you with me today .

, patty . Today we're going to talk about organizational change empathy , a topic that is really important and not really much explored , in my opinion , and you've written a great article on it which we're going to touch on , and I'll definitely put the link in the podcast information .

But before we dive deep into the topic , it would be fantastic for my audience to know a little bit about you and what you do .

We're headquartered in Silicon Valley and we work with some of the world's biggest brands , most famous leaders so a lot of people you've never heard of to help them communicate their ideas , especially through presentations and stories .

It stirs a lot of negative emotions in the people who are being asked to enact the change , the people who are impacted by the change , and so they're going to resist .

And if you want to overcome that resistance , as a change leader , as a change communicator , it behooves you to understand what people are going to be feeling about that change and communicate to them in a way that overcomes that resistance and fear and encourages them to embrace this change , to really adopt it , and that takes empathy .

In my opinion , it's essential to influence .

What we're most aware of is what we think and feel , and sometimes it's difficult for us to imagine how another person might think or feel , especially if it's different than how we're approaching a topic or a change .

And so , as a leader , you need to understand what people might be feeling about this thing that you're trying to get them to do , and that starts with you .

It starts with you and it starts with the people that are advising you on the change plan and the change communication , and it begins with trying to get an insight into how your stakeholders , particularly your employees , are going to be perceiving this change , and that should inform how you communicate it to them , but also how you roll it out .

When we were talking , before we started rolling here , you were sharing your own experience in change management and learning early on about the importance of enablement and support , and that all comes from a place of knowing what people need , what humans need in order to adopt change .

It's not enough to communicate it to them , but also to help them understand how to enact that change and why they should enact that change , which to me comes down to the story you tell about the change , and the story will be more successful .

Your change story will land better if it considers how people will perceive the change and includes reasons for them to believe it's good for them , so that they're more likely to get on board .

When you study story structure , you see that it really inherently describes the process of change , because the structure of a story , the three-act structure , is about a person who's encountering challenges as they try to achieve a goal , and they struggle and they have a whole inner experience in that process that causes them to doubt themselves and consider quitting ,

stop trying , but usually somebody , a mentor , comes alongside them , helps them get unstuck and ultimately succeed in whatever they're trying to achieve . So the nature of a story itself is about a person struggling and trying to be trying to get a different result , which is change .

And so , therefore , stories themselves are a really powerful way to talk about why change is necessary or how we've been through changes in the past and lessons that we've learned about them .

And that's a vehicle again for leaders to create reasons to believe that this change will be good for people , but also to explain their own experience with leading change to build trust .

You need to have a good business case , a justification for the change in the first place . But facts alone don't persuade people , because people have feelings about change , and so you need to have an emotional appeal , and story is one way to achieve that .

everybody probably most people in an organization they accept that there's a problem , but the way to go about solving that problem and that actually happens in society as well the way you go about solving the problem can be looked at differently from different people . Have I got this close to right ?

And so I also advocate for what I would call segmented messages , thinking about the different stakeholder groups that you're trying to persuade , and that would include not just people who are segmented by their role and level in the organization , but by their mindset about the change .

Who's going to be resistant and why , who's going to be supportive and why , and what you communicate to those two groups is different . The overarching reason why the organization needs to do this may be the same , but why you particularly need to embrace this and how it's going to affect your role needs to be more contextual .

And that's again where storytelling can come in , because you can give examples of people in a role like yours who would benefit from this change , whether it's a scenario based on the future or whether it's a scenario based on past change .

And when it comes to change , we talked about the leadership role and showing empathy . What about the practitioners ? What about the change managers ? What about the project managers ? They would need to demonstrate that empathy in their own ways .

Early on , when I think about creating a piece of communication for anyone , for any situation , I always start by thinking about the audience that I'm going to be speaking to and , as we've been talking about , what is their perspective on the issue ? How do I want to change that perspective ? And then what do I need to say or do or show to cause that change ?

Well , that's our role as the change practitioners , the program managers , the communication strategists to do that research , to do that work , to build that understanding for the leaders , our sponsors , so that they have a picture of how people are going to feel in the organization and how we should communicate differently to them .

And so we believe at Duarte that empathy starts with self-awareness and self-understanding , and the better you understand yourself , the more able you are to understand other people , particularly when you use psychometric tools .

Now I'm getting into some of the business of HR , but psychometric tools like a disk or an SDI often makes you curious about other people and what their type is , their style is , their worldview is , and that curiosity then creates an openness , creates a space for people to connect with each other because they want to understand each other better , and then , when

you want to understand other people , you're better able to empathize with them .

What you're saying is that the first step to empathy is that I need to have a high level of self-awareness understanding myself , understanding my intentions before I start talking to my stakeholders and trying to influence and understand their challenges .

Where the anxiety is , how they perceive the change , how they see it and how they perceive it two different things and with the genuine intention of me trying to understand where they sit so I can design my change strategies and communication strategies based on that , knowing also that the goalpost may change at any one time , so that empathy work is a continuous

work .

Do surveys , talk to stakeholder groups , try and understand how they might react , take that input , shape the plan . But , as you say , when we launch the change program , things are going to change . They'll begin to change , people will have reactions . The plan may not work as it is . You need to pivot .

And so , there again , listening is important , listening to that feedback , how people are responding to it , adjusting the plan or the communication of the plan as the program progresses is equally important , and it's something , probably , that some leaders need to be convinced is even worth doing in the first place .

An obstacle to leaders being empathetic is just even valuing that people will have an opinion about this change effort .

A project is usually driven by the three constraints Time , budget and scope and sometimes an organization actually I should not say an organization sometimes some people in the organization would look at things like empathy , and the art of questioning and focusing on the needs of the audience and the stakeholders is a fluffy stuff . What's your take on that ?

Have you first of all , have you come across this ?

And to that I say do you have time to recover If your plan is unsuccessful , if the change begins to fail because people either didn't understand it , didn't buy into it , didn't support it , and that you could have known that by just stopping the beginning and asking some questions to anticipate what the resistance would be , You're going to spend the time either way

. One of my colleagues is a designer , a graphic designer , and he was talking about getting changes in a project late in the process and he said you know , there's a lot of times there's pressure to get it done quickly and because there's never time to do it right , but there's always time to do it over .

And what that means is you make a mistake , you're going to take the time to correct that mistake . Would you rather try and anticipate and avoid that mistake in the first place , or take the time later to recover from it ? Either way , it's time .

, and not really just one for one , as well .

Right , the risk that will come from lack of support or or lack of execution , and that stems from people . Again , you're not understanding , not not embracing the change . And this is something that I've seen time and time again in my career as a communication strategist , but also working with technology companies Over 30 plus years .

Many times I would say the majority of the time so the technology fails , so the product fails . It's not just because the product itself was faulty , you know , poor product market fit or even the messaging was off , but it was . It was a failure of , of a persuasion of humans .

Whoever was trying , whoever you were trying to get to adopt this technology , was not sufficiently convinced that it was right for them . Same is true for other forms of change .

We talk about organizational change . Empathy , which is how I define it at a higher level , that this is the deal for you as our people in the organization . Every time I have change , I guarantee you that I'm going to listen to you , I'm going to support you , I'm going to train you , I'm going to support you all the way .

I am going to tailor , make the solution to your needs . So it's like almost that is the deal from the organization to the people . But I also look at because I'm a strong believer that it's a mutual responsibility between the organization and the employees . I also think that there's something called employee change empathy , which is which is I would need .

Showing empathy to the organization is asking questions , be interested in the process , be interested in the way that change will be rolled out , ask questions about how the organization will support you .

And Jenny , one of questions that you're interested that in the change , and so then we'll end up with organizational change empathy , with that , with an employee change empathy . But I cannot expect this is my thinking . I might be wrong I cannot expect a high level of employee change empathy before I commit to an organizational change empathy . What's your ?

How would you critique my way of thinking ?

But we need them to meet us halfway , and I hear that and I agree with that . And yet I also agree with you that it's there is a chicken and an egg . The organization is the chicken and it's a chicken and an egg , which is a terrible metaphor now , because that's a failure . But what ? My point is ?

That that it's , like you said , a reciprocal relationship , and it makes me think of the concept of the emotional bank account . If you're familiar with Stephen Covey , seven habits of highly effective people and you talked about this concept of emotional , emotional bank account .

Right , that you , when you're in relationship with anyone as leaders , are with their employees , as a business is with its constituencies , and you need to be adding making deposits into the bank account of your relationship with each other so that there's enough funds for those times when you need to take things out of that bank account .

I'm going to come and ask you for something . I'm going to ask you to make a sacrifice on behalf of this business . Well , if there's nothing in that bank account to begin with , then it's going to be hard for employees to say yes to that , unless you're really holding them over a barrel .

You know they need their jobs , they have no leverage , there's nowhere else to go , and you threaten them and put a lot of consequences in place for their non compliance , then sure , you'll get some degree of adoption , but you're not going to get the 110% , the 150% of the intrinsic motivation to want to do anything possible to help you make this change successful

. People would just do the minimum unless you've given them enough .

And I might be simplistic in the way I think about those things , but I've been in the business for long years and I promote two things . When I talk to employees , people , the users of the solution or any change , I am honest to say this is our deal , but you need to show interest as well .

I'm showing off to a training session is one way of saying I'm interested . Participating is another thing . And then when I make it , sometimes in a funny way , and I tell them a little story about previous sessions , I think I can hit a code in there and say you know what this particular project group and the leader have ?

You know they've done a fantastic job . But that's not really the normal thing and I'll be saying cool . So now you've seen the template of a good thing . Next time there's a change coming your way , share your opinion on what , the how we'd like the change to happen , rather than just comparing .

And that's your first step to participate and contribute to the organization . It is not a theater , it's not that the leader is on the stage and I am sitting in the audience and say I like it , I don't like it . It doesn't work that way .

And I always say to them if there's going to be a change that will impact me and lots of changes happen in an organization that will impact me , but they should respectfully in town halls and any session , I'll be asking the right questions and I'll be genuinely interested in the answer rather than just asking the questions as well . So that's how I see that .

And the other thing is that I might be simplifying this , but I always believe you know that if we get change right in an organization , we solve a lot of problems . I think a leader's job , at the end of the day , is to come to work to help their people succeed .

That is really the main job , not not signing checks and all of that , and that's the purpose of their job . And the other thing is so how they make people succeed . They come to work and make decisions . Those decisions become changes and those changes need to be implemented , and so the whole cycle of change goes through everything we do in an organization .

So how about we pay that attention and that organizational change , empathy , and really be good at it ?

How do you understand the shape of change , the journey of change , through the lens of story and use stories themselves to move people through each stage of the change journey ? And that's exactly what it's about . It's it's it's changes not only a necessary evil . It is the nature of business if business is to succeed .

It's also the major nature of human if human is to succeed and thrive . So there's a book I read that's probably I don't know 40 plus years old , maybe older than that , called self renewal , by John C Gardner I think his name is , and he was involved in policy in the United States in the 67 days and this might have been an essay or a talk he gave .

That the concept of self renewal was was his appeal to individuals to take responsibility for their own growth and development , to understand that when we as humans embrace change , we can seek it , that everything else thrives , it leads to a better society , it leads to more successful businesses and government .

I mean , I would love if all of us , every human , feels that same way . We run toward change , we embrace it and find , as you said when we were first talking , there's an opportunity in it for them . Because there is opportunity , even if it's scary , even if it's mostly good for the business , for you to learn this new skill .

You learn something that you can put on your resume , which comes all the way back to empathy and how we communicate change and finding a way to articulate what's in it for them so that people are more likely to embrace that change because it's good for them .

I think empathy is not giving , throwing all the information at you , but helping you , showing that change . Empathy by working out how the change , your opportunity in the change .

That's what gives people agency and that will lead to their greater satisfaction . They'll feel more empowered .

Across all silos of an organization , because sometimes we do it well in some silos and sometimes we don't do it well in other silos and therefore the experience will be fragmented within the organization . But let's just say an organization is really good at , led by the top leaders , at showing a lot of organization change empathy .

Has that got any impact on Building the resilience within that particular organization or change resilience ?

Resiliency and the just , the ability to Adapt is fundamental to our resiliency , and so all the capabilities you're talking about are necessary ones for for individuals and organizations to be able to withstand , you know , change that they choose and change that is done to them .

The organizations that manage change well are the organizations that will stay ahead of the game . We see that in tech organizations and , and technology is certainly helping now . So there's no excuse for organization to say I can't do a lot . What's your take on that ? I ?

I'm sure you and your listeners are familiar and they've been around a very long time and have gone on quite a roller coaster ride over that time of great success , great loss , great failure and and recovery .

And I think that that Organization has endured as long as it has , in large part not just because its products are sound and its leadership is is good , but that they've understood how to manage change .

And in the book illuminate there's a case study about Lou Gersner , who came in to lead a pretty significant turnaround at IBM and one of the first things he did , taking it all the way back to what we Just we've been discussing , was to empathize by doing a listening tour .

He talked to customers , he talked to employees to inform his strategy and also to build support for it and and I think it's a huge contributor to His success and turning the company around , because he began with a base of support but it was informed by what he understood .

Usually I ask my Guess one question around what would be the three takeaways you would like my listeners , whether they're in the change community or project , or the leaders , to take away from this conversation ?

If you want to increase your likelihood of success , it's best to try and empathize with what they're going to be experiencing , what what your stakeholders , especially employees , might think or feel about this change , and then use that knowledge , that insight , to shape how you communicate to them so that you increase your chances of overcoming their resistance to it and

and also get them the encouragement that they need . It's not just about de-risking and removing that resistance , but it's also about doing the right thing by them giving them that support , the Encouragement , that visible sign that you care about them , so that you put more deposits in that emotional bank account .

I can't wait to share my next episode with you in a fortnight . Until then , stay well . I am Ali Juma and this is the inner game of change podcast .