Existence, the physical universe is basically playful. Welcome to the Curious Humans Podcast. I'm your host, Johnny Miller. Happy 2020. I'm And we'll be going to be able to do that. Okay. conversation with Ed Dangerfield. This was quite possible. the most unique In much the same way that yoga and meditation has over the last decade. I think for good for the right. We'll get into it in more time. Breathworking. To shift your mental, emotional, and physical.
As you take deep circular community, Continuously and without any breaks. And it's surprisingly fine. Where it's common fit. to be reviewed and released and integrated. What I really appreciate about It's this clinical approach that's backed by years of training endocks. Research and self experimentation. Ed's a really good friend here in Bali.
My personal breathwork sessions have led to Increasing my breath capacity, even experiencing DMT releases, and just being left with a really high degree of mental and emotional capacity. It sounds pretty good, right? And there are several types of breathwork out there. But Ed's linears His style of teaching really resonates with me, and I'll also be taking part in his 400 hour facilitating.
So the aim of this conversation was to create something of a comprehensive beginner's guide to breastfederation. And some of the areas that we dive into are his personal journey from being trapped in an avalanche and almost dying. To him being a highly functional Alcoholic and depressive, which was later the gateway into the breathwork world. We go into some of my personal experiences lying on his breathwork.
And he makes the really interesting case for why our thinking is directly influenced by our breathing and how he's been able to map certain emotions onto specific breathing. And he also defines capacity and resiliency from the perspective of the nervous system. He shares what he's learnt from living with the Canadian tribal elders. As well as some of the healing that he's witnessed. Time guiding session. There was a man who relived and processed a near drowny experience.
And stories of women who've been able to prove it. Experiences of sexual abuse. It's a really deep dive and the reason for this slightly longer than usual introduction is that I believe it's a really important conversation and I urge you Please feel free to reach out to either of us if you have any thoughts or questions. Alright, without any any further ado, I give you Mr. Ed Dangerfield. So I'm sitting here with Edward Dangerfield, a nervous systems specialist and founder of Breathwork Bali.
We met a few weeks back, and I remember we were sitting just at the table across here, and I found myself We dropped in for like for maybe like three or four hours, went off the deep end, and I've really And I think we're probably gonna go into quite deep and nerdy places. But before we go there, I'd like to begin. Ah, thanks Johnny. Yeah, it's um really great to be back in this beautiful space again and to dive into some of the same and probably some more realms.
Um yes is the answer to your first question. Yes, uh always been uh curious. Um as a child and also just generally uh yeah I think that showed up in in in play uh and in uh also this idea Following since I was really young. And quite often I would find myself outside in nature, and it was invariably in different Um And that said I went to a very struggle.
private school in England which pretty much systematically beat the shit out of me for that. So So I ended up being funneled into mathematics and things that probably weren't really my calling. Um Yeah, and then and then sort of found my way into like interesting realms like design. for me that I then also didn't pursue based on um kind of cultural beliefs. Yeah lack of career progression and all those things. Yeah, like how are you gonna pay the bills like carving you know wood?
Which I understand now to be my belief, but at the time that wasn't so. So yeah, Doctor Lawyer Abanker was kind of more of a cultural email. Mm. I'm probably more subtle and insidious than than that clarity but ended me up doing you know studying economics Yeah. Me too, interestingly. Yeah. Same thing. Yeah. Um were there any favourite books or stories?
um that you read that really resonated with you growing up that that come to mind? Um I know that sort of in my Potter and Winnie the Pooh uh what like the two Not super memorable for me, to be honest with you. Interestingly enough, like I can speed read and I love to read now. Rapidly. But when I was a child, books were not of interest to me, to the point where it was like a joke in my family. And my my brother, who's two years older than I am, is like very
But always has done. So it's kind of been a a returning to that for me with study. Um, you know, probably more in the last kind of six, seven years. Yeah, because I was a kid and I wanted to play. Just saying. Yeah, more used to like throwing the books than reading. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, like how does it fall? it rolls, like you know, how does it move in water? Like those will be more interesting. Okay, cool. Study and degree in economics somehow led you to become
uh obsessed with skiing and living in in Whistler. And I know that there was a A particular incident that that we've talked about before that was in some ways a kind of an inciting incident for the journey that you've been on in. few years. So this is, I realise this is a big question, but could you take us back there to what happened in the mountains for you?
maybe walk us through a bit of this this journey that has unfolded since Yeah for sure. So the um I suppose the bridge between like studying economics and moving to Canada was just a real Uh, you know, that was a sort of the major motivation was to just get out of the UK, probably get a certainly like at some element family as well and just explore. I get away from the safety and um boundaries and confinement that I perceived at the time. And so um yeah, I moved to Canada, I moved to Whistler.
Yeah, I was this English kid super like green. snow and uh turned up there and was just like blown away, like fully amazed. creative and um I fell into the restaurant industry. And then could not claw my way out for a variety of different reasons. I loved it, was always been super passionate about cooking and food and loved sharing and hosting uh in my own personal life. And so, you know, I fell into bartending.
restaurants and it was an opportunity to host people. It was an opportunity to to be welcoming and hospitable. So I really enjoyed it. And then kind of on the side, you know, would ski in the day and work at night. So the lifestyle was great, some travel there as well. Yeah, what was one year, you know, flowed into then ten, uh which is kinda like the whistler trap for a lot of people. Yeah. And I became a Canadian citizen along the way. Um it's a curious place.
Yeah. So, you know, that you know, about 10 years in Whistler brought me to the incident that we're speaking of, which was a pivotal moment in my life. And in fact a lead up to it that is is also worth maybe mentioning a little bit around I had been a restaurant owner for three years. you know, a huge undertaking, a beautiful learning experience and uh some really fond memories, but like crazy
And of course it's on our edge where we really grow. And so about three years into that I recognized that the way I was working and the style I was working wasn't serving me. But beyond that I was starting to feel the level of stress in my And I started to connect with that more and there was a deep feeling that something was wrong inside me. And so I I made a
and to sell out and to pursue other things, a different way of life and a different way of living. And initially that dream was gonna be to um create with my with my family And cottage business in Portugal that would be uh organic, sustainable restaurant and cottages. And that was kind of the prayer. And so set that intention, and um that was gonna happen sort of May or June of that year, and then in March. Yeah.
Oh, deep breath. So that was I just dive back into that. Um the there's very little emotional charge uh with the memory and with speaking of it, but I am very aware of how story can be. To the underlying emotions. And so now I can speak to this um six years later quite clearly, but at the time and thereafter it was uh obviously a super harrowing experience.
And in terms of avalanches, it was Lucky enough to stay on top, um, tumbled a couple of times, but eventually when everything stopped, I was only buried. So only up just yeah yeah. Which you know, like compared to a full burial or a full burial for some time, sure, you know, is like yeah, as Charles play in the mountains especially. And I mean I guess you know that's a really great example of like the kind of environment that I was in.
We were skiing on like, you know, onto the edges. We were you know, I was doing a lot of s got um self propelled ski touring, snowmobiling, uh using sleds to access terrain. Wow. And there were a lot of skiers, we're skiing some really And so I was n certainly not at that level, but I was on the edges of it and exploring in that way. Um, and what was, you know, a very normal
The essence of why it was so profound was the quality of the fight-flight response that fired in my body. So a huge amount of things. Which led to me fighting and then swimming for my life, you know, down a a mountain side, which was moving, which was like a really So it was obviously huge amounts of panic, um and gasping for breath and moments where I was under and unsure if I was going to go under.
And then the essence of the problem wasn't so much that I was caught in an avalanche, but it was just how I didn't get emotionally complete on it and how the trauma or didn't have an opportunity to actually be fully And at the time I was totally oblivious. unaware of how to heal trauma. And so I started to live with the
running in my system. You weren't prepared for that with your economics degree? Yeah, yeah, but my economics degree did not prepare me for how to how to navigate the aftermath of like a a a near death experience. And so after that, um interestingly enough, I did see a friend of mine who's a trauma specialist and and uh we did release a lot What was held in my system. And so the essence of a suppressed memory that's anchored with a large charge of emotion.
continue to create that adrenaline response. So what was evident is I had high tone adrenaline continuing. And that event was fairly easy in and of itself to heal. But what happened was the it it basically broke the dam and it broke the dam of my whole life, which was everything that I'd ever suppressed. And so that was then stepping back into all other ultimately that led me down a rabbit hole of my whole life.
Which has been the last six years in essence. And now I feel interestingly enough, like in the last month, Johnny, it's like I feel like I'm really complete on so being able to see with a totally clearer lens than previous So post avalanche it was like, okay, um I've got a boatload of shit stored in me and I know it can come out. And then it was just like, how does the body?
Mm. And what was it like when you started kind of tugging on I I've got an image of like putting on a thread and like more and more coming and then realizing that it's connected to all of this other stuff. Like what was that like for you and and how did it show up in your kind of lived experience. Um it showed up mostly as as becoming an alcoholic. And so just the necessity To get through the day.
And and so, you know, highly functioning, but at the same time very addicted. And the the recognition at that time there was a lot of self-judgment around that. It was probably uh actually. Medicine, um, you know, just being able to get certainly through the day and then r hitting like five or six o'clock.
And just doing that consistently every day. But there was a reliance and there was an addiction on the fact that I was really going through a process of like churning up and digging. Um and at that moment it was no longer a choice. And that was a It's you know, it was moving and there was a wisdom that was moving it within me that.
you know, I couldn't really shift or change. From the elements of, you know, some later teachings that I discovered, you know, around the Canadian native tradition of the four directions, some medicine real teaching of body. And so there's a recognition that um the deeper parts of me
Wow. What's coming up for me is like It's almost like that it kind of unlodged this this inner avalanche of sorts and you were using drink to try and like hold that at bay and to like like keep the keep everything in place and it's like more and more fall and yeah and shift. Were there any were there any kind of subsequent turning moments or maybe like low um lows during that period that led you to kind of face this more directly and to kind of tackle this head on. Yeah, thank you.
Um well certainly the lower points are the turning points. And uh I also know that um yeah that that meant And that was a decision, you know, as you rightly recognize. There's also a quality of like numbing versus feeling into the pain and there's a a a balance almost a pendulation. So I think one of the big pivotal moments was the recognition that I was in a codependent relationship.
Old program that I've been running for some time. And then, of course, you know, with dysfunction in my nervous system, I'll plus a toxic relationship some some big pieces had to shift in my life so cocktail yeah so um at the time i was i was in europe at the time uh i was in portugal actually right and uh i met Basically leave everything to drop.
with the sole intention of of getting my shit together, which meant therapy, which meant healing, which meant actually seeking quality support from professionals in all realms. And so yeah, I dropped And I made back I moved back the year previously, as I kinda mentioned, I'd owned a restaurant and you know I'd I was married. Nice apartment. And I moved back to Canada the following year. It had been one year later of basically.
Big fucking roller coaster. And then I got back and it was just like I was living in a four bed dorm in a hostel. You know, which was of course winter, so it's like cold and and, you know, damp. And um and I was bartending at a restaurant that I used to work at before And one of my friends is like, he I remember he said like how are you doing this? Aren't you aren't you feeling shame around the fact that you've come back here? And it wasn't really said with a quality of care.
really fallen and you've fallen a long way kind of thing and and uh I was I remember And it was just this simple life and I started to ski again and I started to just bartend four nights a week and I started to explore a path Yogasana I started initially just working with a biofield energy healer who I then started to train with. So that was like a pivotal moment of returning to Canada and dropping like everything that I had been, including.
But it's just kind of nice to suddenly just be like the essence of of no one again. Um and not a label of a husband and not a label of, you know, an entrepreneur. There was just a total sense of freedom that I could just actually Mm. I I love that. It it's almost like uh So I I read that Ramdas passed away recently, um last night, and he talks about how we we build up this these qualities of somebody ness and how we you know we kind of project
person our personalities on the world. And sometimes these intense experiences and events, they strip away those identities. And what we're left with is like the the essence of who we really are. And it sounds like that's kind of what returned back to this sense of like the the simplicity and the the essence and from that that's it sounded like that was then the foundation for the Yeah, thanks Johnny. It's a I I love looking at it in that way. For me there's a real quality
I didn't change my mask fell off. Hmm. But it was more like my masks. And when I look at masks, I look at maladaptive behavior, I look at, you know, things that I used to do to to live because Ultimately, to have my needs met. And as I started to peel those away more and more and continue on this journey, this like really. And then to create balance. So yeah, it's that that sort of started out with working with a a really powerful healer.
Studied biofield energy healing um in quite a Western clinical way, so hands on. Um and a capacity to sense into a limb and feel the polarity, so feel which way energy was moving and the subtle energy of qi in Chinese medicine. Um and also her study And um that b now looking back on that, I see that with so much more clarity and understand what was going on. But at the time it just felt right and I continue to pursue that along with um a part.
Um and and at the time I made some shifts I I stopped drinking and uh I went paleo. So it was like a full like mm like del substances and it was a very cleansing period of my life. Um yeah, for for I guess like, you know, on and off for a year and a half, I moved in and out of some interesting um I guess protocols and and regimens. Yep. Yeah. And a lot of structure and rigidity was needed to create.
Mm. Yeah. Yeah. And that almost sense of kind of self experimentation as well. Yeah, well that's what started to happen. I was just like, all right, let's get into this. Let's see what happens if I, you know, eat a certain way. How does it make me feel? And using Exploring that more and more. What it what it led me to believe and understand was how disconnected.
Self, by self, you know, my emotional self, but also like eating when I was hungry versus eating on a timetable. And just like little subtle things about how, you know, if someone had projected My childhood, you must be hungry. I'd been like, oh, I must be hungry, as opposed to saying, Are you hungry? And that inquiry and the continuous inquiry around a feeling state. Yep. That might.
Yeah, yeah. And and almost like we're um I mean I can certainly relate to the f the sense of being fairly unaware to everything. until until relatively recently. And and just just being like ignoring all of that feedback that comes, whether it's in the form of of hunger pangs or or anger or you we know whatever these things are. Um that's been a big part of my journey. And yeah, well firstly I just want to say thank you for for sharing some of your experience.
I think in in the people that I've spoken to before and in my own life, it's often these intense experiences that radically alter the trajectory of our lives and send us down these these rabbit holes. Um and I I was thinking kind of uh before you arrive that this the title of this podcast is probably gonna be how we breathe think. And this is a fairly bold claim that I've heard you make before. And I'd like to spend a lot of this conversation just like unpacking.
pretty audacious claim. So where would you begin to make the case for this to curious but potenti potentially skeptical Um and it might also help to kind of define terms like neuroplasticity and epigenetics and things like that. So um I'll I'll hand the I'll hand the mic over to you. Thanks, Jimmy. Um so Yeah, I think one of the first things to say is, you know, the the backstory of um what I went through only has relevance because I know how to self regulate my system now. Otherwise
And one of my teachers said it's only really relevant in sharing our own experience when we understand the lesson. Otherwise, ultimately, And so it's like all of that happened to me and yes, like it really And I I see that with clarity now and I understand the gifts that I received through all of those traumatic experiences. And the essence of it is this deep understanding and inner standing.
the fact that how how we how we breathe is how we think. So yeah, you've you've landed me in it and I have to back up this statement. And it's it's a statement I make at the beginning of speaking quite often. Um And I like to f I like to engage people in following the path of how briefly And so yeah, starting with defining two terms um which are really powerful.
You mentioned. So neuro for uh neuron neurological, the nervous system in general, the pathways of information and the way that we transfer information within our body, uh both the brain. And plasticity, um, plastic for malleable, changeable. So the idea is that our nervous system is malleable and changeable and our brain is as well.
Hebb's law states that neurons that fire together wire together. And so when we continually think in a repetitive pattern, we will continually The fascinating piece for me around that was I'd heard neuroplasticity in context of meditation of the brain, but I hadn't applied it to the nervous system and to our spine.
Yeah, thanks. I think um yeah, like a really good one would be like hitting a tennis ball or a golf swing or skiing for that matter. You know, like the first time we do it we have so much conscious award. And then as we repeat. Und das ist eine Bewegung. So that's like we don't have to think about how we back out of our driveway when we've done it 40 times. We just know how to do it. And uh and then if we actually think about
Yeah, thank you. So you know, there's a beautiful book, Thinking Fast and Slow, and it goes into you know Danny Punam. Yeah, exactly, right? So how how those those processes are present. So neuroplasticity, yeah, present in everything, including our breathing pattern. Uh, and then the other term that we just kind of mentioned is epigenetics. Um, so Bruce Lipton's a huge hero of mine in the field.
biology and the recognition that cells communicate through the wall and not through the nucleus. And so the it's the information is held in the cell wall. So when one cell bumps against another So that's one of his great discoveries. But beyond that, epigenetics is this idea that the container creates a change in how cells. And so some obvious examples would be like um taking two twins and one of them gets you know gets to grow up in Bala.
with a s a single parent who's struggling in an inner city environment with, you know, potentially some Street. And what we'd notice is that the two people by the age, say, of 16, would look totally different. Even though the genetic code is identical, the environment, the container with which they've been in is activated. Um they would think differently. And their capacity for emotional regulation would Mm.
Yeah, totally. Yeah, and some tattoos by the age of sixteen. Yeah, riding a scooter. Vegan. Yeah, for sure vegan there. Yeah. Versus yeah, who knows? But like So so the idea that these two twins would be totally different um indicates to us that our environment The whole nervous system. So the nervous system, which is you know responsible for subconscious processes of movement, including our breathing. resting heart rate, heart rate variability.
Uh how we're receiving information, our capacity to see whether our vision is wide or narrow. Really? Yeah. So um Yeah, so I've worked with an optometrist and it was quite fascinating. fields of vision narrow when someone's under a fight-flight response. So they we don't scam we we don't scan for threats no more. We're more direct and vigilant on what is a perception of a target. So our peripheral vision
That makes sense. I guess, yeah, sympathetic like fight or flight, it's more important that we're like laser focused. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. So when we're parasympathetic, grade. So you know getting into the two branches of the nervous system, sympathetic and parasympathetic, you know, one And we can tie those directly to our breathing. So the inhale is activating and the exhale is relaxing. So if we take a nice full inhale,
We have a tendency to yawn, which means we're going to inhale. And when we want to relax, we can sigh, which is letting out and dropping of the exhale. So those would be the tote two most obvious spectrums of the breath. So, how we breathe is how we think. Coming back to that claim, when we inhale, we're activating, and when we exhale, we're relaxing. The rhythm and balance of our breathing has
system and our nervous system is directly impacting our endocrine system. The endocrine system being our gland system. Gland function of course changing hormones, which are chemical. Anyway, we can Google that later. Uh but chem chemicals. So the chemicals moving in our bloodstream, of course, are going to mobilize us for action, but they're also going to have an impact on brain function, specifically on the amygdala.
areas for logic, reasoning, compassion, and empathy, including um what would be the pituitary So our capacity to recognize someone else's emotional response to something else. Um so that's great that that comes offline when we're in a big fight-flight response. really lousy in a work environment or in a relationship. And so how we're breathing is changing our energy.
along with sight and hearing. How we breathe is how we think. So the implication for that's interesting because with neuroplasticity, our breathing changes over time. And our breathing is malleable. So when we're born, invariably depending on the quality of inuterro uh trauma and birth trauma. And it's a beautiful cyclical rhythm of breath. And as we move through life A really obvious example of that would be like an appendix surgery.
When we get cut open in an area, we're gonna have uh protection to not breathe into that space because of the pain. So that's gonna limit our breathing. So that shift will then create a change in how that area is receiving breath and blood flow, which is going to have an impact on the glands in that area. So if we don't re re Well that's
Yeah, most doctors that I've been to have not given me breath advice following following surgeries. Yeah, totally. I mean any surgery does require us to repattern the breathing because you know we're breathing between And after a surgery, there's discomfort. So if the pattern has been shortened and shifted and changed after a surgery, we need That's that's fascinating and one of the concepts that you shared recently was
How the seven chakras that the yogis talk about map fairly directly onto our endocrine system. And that by moving our awareness and our breath. We're able to kind of regulate the hormones that are produced endogenously in these glands. Yes. Um is that approximately right? And can you Yeah, that's that's totally accurate.
I've been paying attention. Yeah, that's good. Thanks for coming to the talk. So yeah, the essence for me is uh you know when I started studying yoga and and there was this idea of the chakras, it was like this ball of whirling light or energy or voice. Or something very mystical. And that didn't really work with my you know background in economics. I I was so so I did my Yo T training here and I was
I annoyed the shit out of Octavio at teacher because I was constantly like, but like, but can you explain this from like a scientific perspective? Yes. And he tried, but nothing really landed. Yeah, thank you. So for me the essence is really it it came about through study and research, but a lot of the work um that I'm really appreciative.
her um school of BMC Body Mind Centering. And that was introduced to me through the yoga teacher training that I did with um Embodied Flow. And that's a really interesting blend of body mind. yoga, but it looks and delves into childhood developmental patterns and how we learn how to walk and move and the impact that that has on our breathing. And then ultimately Um could you briefly explain what you mean by tone? Yeah, tone um so the quality in rest of
So obviously we have an opportunity to tense or to be relaxed. And so the tone would be what is the quality of us in rest? And so our whole body will always have a varying tone. Crown system. So a preparedness, a readiness with relaxation would be the ideal state that most of us would seek. It's we're able to act, however, we're I'm imagining like a...
illustration of a lion here right in front of us. Imagine like like a lion that's kind of sitting down but might be ready to kind of Yeah run after a gazelle at some point. Totally. So and you know and it's fascinating, it's like what would be the how rapidly it would be able to fire its its motor. it nerves to actually move and mobilize. Now, if we're always in high tone, we're rigid. We can't, there's nowhere to go. And if we're always in low tone, we're depressed. And so what we're seeking
Um yeah, so BMC was really fascinating for that. It gave me an opportunity The human from ourselves. So I am a human and you're a human, and there's some curious humans listening. We have an opportunity. And breath work was the idea that, okay, so we have this gland system and we can read about it in a book, but how what is the actual felt sense? What is my somatic experience of whatever it is? And how does that be? Truth. Uh in yogic philosophy, sure truth can be from like a say
we read from a scripture that we believe to be true. But for me really the most potent form of truth And that's through my own lived experience. And so when it came to the chakras, um, it was really about bringing conscious awareness and breath into an area. Which is so And so it was kind of like the pendulum swung way back over the other side. You know, I dropped all of the left brain logical and I went into this exploration of movement and of of being able
Over time with one pointed focus, such that I could then understand what that gland did. So anywhere we bring κ·λ¦¬κΈ°μμ΅λλ€. Yeah, for sure. So, you know, we can work through the chakras. Dan, you know, and and and here's the thing, this is an approximate translation that's based on
I've discovered, and some people it's slightly different. The the kind of the first and second chakras, there's some seems to be a bit of confusion generally around like who's What here and it's all story, it's all made up. Really matter? But it matters. Yeah, totally. So in my world, uh the first chakra relates to the time period of zero to three in childhood development and is to do with the R
being connected to the earth and grounded in the physical body. So it has a felt sense of safety. And if during the time of zero to three we weren't fully supported, held or nurtured, we might find that we're ungrounded or unable In breath it's directly related to the pelvic floor, and that's a thin sheet of muscle that that moves.
And in terms of the gland, it's actually a body, and it's called the coccil body, and it sits right in front of the coccyx. In Western science, it's still very mysterious. In BMC, It gives us a feeling of being grounded. So the opportunity is to become more aware with the Presence ourselves into that space and breathe into it. So that's a quality of the pelvic floor moving and just that area being massaged. If we breathe in
And then maybe just jumping up to the fourth chakra of the heart, the thymus gland. The thymus gland is so front of it, the energy that's coming out and being emitted from it. And over time it it reduces. Um you know, Western science went through a phase of removing the thymus gland because Either troublesome or not needed to be able to do it.
Yeah. And the appendix as well, right? And it's like, yeah, you don't need your appendix. Well why is it there if we don't need it? Evolution fucked up. Yeah, yeah. They just left it there. Well it's just like it's a dead end of stored bacteria. Of course it's needed. It repopulates the colon after we've been sick. Yeah. So yeah the thymus gland thankfully has a function. Yeah.
Yeah, so a HRV, heart rate variability and h and and the heart brain coherence is is a fascinating thing in and of itself. Yeah. Yeah, and then the glandular function of the heart. Which is I mean and this is just like we're what's really going on within each of us, which is amazing and terrifying at the same time. Um so yeah, heart math's a little bit uh you know fascinated with Measuring HRV is a beautiful baseline for life expectancy. One of the most potent things that we can measure is HRV.
how long they're going to live and how well they're going to live. Hari variability directly tied to breathing. The essence is when we inhale, we're activating. Upshifts and the heart rate accelerates. And when we exhale, we downshift and the heart rate decelerates. So our heart rate's accelerating and decelerating with every single breath. And so eight Which is an indication of the nervous system. And so that's where we see
Boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom. So there is actually a quality of a wavering of the heart rate, and that's the variability that we're exploring. Got it. And so And so when we map that back to breathing, each breath pattern has a corresponding emotion. So when we explore those within ourselves, when we notice if we have like a really big voluminous inhale and exhale, and we're dropping the exhale, there's a lot.
That would be similar to a fight-flight response of running away from prey. And then if we slow our breath right the way down or suspend our breath, A freeze response or near death or plain dead. And so the team Which is something I'd never recommend to anyone else. But just, you know, when we were starting to get pretty fringe under this research, we already had really good baselines of, you know, we've been practicing Chigo.
We created a lot of capacity and resilience in our own nervous systems and breathing. really deep non ordinary states of consciousness by changing our breath patterns and rhythm. essentially experiment on ourselves and map more and more. We recognized how profound the changes in blood chemistry could be. Um, you know, and I'll be clear. Taking it beyond the window of tolerance and out of my edge, which is
Yeah, for sure. I mean wow. I mean I um this is actually what I really wanted to dive into and I love this idea of being able to map emotions onto these specific breathing patterns. And I think that your your like magic, your wizardry is this capacity to read people's breath and translate
So could you share maybe some examples of this? Like imagine that I'm lying on your breathwork table, or maybe one of the listeners, what are some of the the common patterns that you that you might look for or that Yeah, thanks, Johnny. So there's a clear distinction between what we call a conscious and subconscious breathing. So conscious would be, you know, a prescribed technique like a pranayama, which Yeah.
The other option opportunity for us is to actually explore the subconscious pattern of breathing, which doesn't allow any conscious mind involvement. And without going Um there's an opportunity. Anybody. And when that very simple technique is present, what we can see is that the breath moves in a very specific way, depending on the behavior and pattern and full. So as an example if I lie someone on the table
A huge amount of yoga asana and also has let go of their controlling patterns. We're going to see that their breath is full. through the third diaphragm of um the rib cage and the vocal cords are clear clear and free, which means they let their exhale go without sound. So that would demonstrate clarity and it would demonstrate dynamism Oh for me the art of yoga is big
Mm. Like right response. Yeah. Yeah. And that continuous of continuation of right response is available if our breath pattern is malleable, because we can change our breathing to change blood chemistry to create. So someone that hasn't done that, I might lie them on the table. And when I look at their breath, yeah, there's an opportunity to see where there's holding intention. So the first thing that I kind of, you know, would look for in my own
Uh I'll I'll overview the whole breath pattern. So I'll see where they're how deep they're breathing down into the pelvis, how much the rib cage is moving, how much breath is moving into the heart, and how much breath And then reading that and mapping that, we can start to understand what's actually going on within the nervous system and what is habitual. So...
A really obvious example would be like a cesarean. Um so a woman that's had a cesarean that's just given birth to a child in a cesarean way. It's um it's not to be taken lightly. It's one can go through and the recovery um is is uh in my opinion grossly uh underrated and overlooked in One of the things that I immediately noticed.
Is that the breath doesn't move into that area for the obvious reason that it's been cut open and it needed to heal. And so the breath pattern stopped moving for a very good reason. They stopped breathing. And of course, what the implications are huge. There's no breath moving down through the small and large intestine. And of course, you know, none.
And so I can lie someone down and look at their breathing and probably ascertain, you know, if they've had a kid or potentially, you know, if there's some sexual trauma in that space. And then similarly, you know, we can look up into the throat, the throat space, the thyroid and parathyroid glands of the fifth chakra, and we can Yeah. You know, the victorious breath of fire, Ujaya, that's taught in yoga, is amazing for cultivating heat. Yeah. Yeah. And it creates heat in the whole system.
Mm-hmm. So when we recognise um the number one thing that we consume in our lives is is actually oxygen. It's like we have so many protocols for food but really it's all about breath. Like that's really And so, yeah, look when we look at um the throat space, we can see if there is a continuous uji in the subconscious pattern, there will be a retention of heat, which
Because it's increasing heat and acidity. Yeah. Okay. And beyond that, we're holding onto the exhale. The exhale, of course, is relaxing. So we're not So we're living in a higher tone in the whole body system, in the nervous system and endocrine system, which will lead to acidification of the body, which creates an And so we can rapidly see if someone lets go of their control pattern of the throat, it will create And invariably.
overactive adrenal glands from as an example someone that was caught in an avalanche complete. Yeah what happened to yourself. Yeah. Yeah. So always that low-tone consistent adrenaline. Right. Right. Yeah, wow. Um So let's let's say as a as a concrete example maybe for some some lesson Who are still trying to like wrap their head around this.
This fascinating brain dump of of information. Let's let's say um I mean in in my experience I have a lot of friends who are startup founders who right now a a lot of them are going through depression and and anxiety is is really Um and going to a traditional doctor, they might pr prescribe Xanax um or something along those lines. But I feel like you're saying that there's a way that we
Heal the root and the cause of this anxiety. Um, what would this process look like? And if if a if a startup founder who were And low-level stress, if they came to you, what what might that look like in a kind of hypothetical scenario? Yeah, the you know, there's sort of a couple of different things that are servicing. One is sort of like um so so anxiety in general and then the other one is like a treatment protocol. Okay. And so firstly unpacking anxiety. Anxiety is normally we can all agree
center it sort of makes us feel like you know just below the ribs. Yeah some tightness in that space. It invariably shows up as overactive adrenals. It can be because we're actually facing an over Anyone that's an entrepreneur or you know guiding a business might be, you know, right on the edge, you know, creating something that's very new and taking a lot of risk and challenge. And so just mitigating
Patterns, that there's a really big flaring rib cage. Right. And if that's also present with control, they're holding it the throat. So then we would categorize them as a type A overachiever. So flaring ribcage, huge inhale. And what happens is if you breathe like that for twenty You'll collapse. Yeah. So that's the path of overexpansion. Wow. Uh getting ourselves into a challenging situation with too much growth that isn't grounded. Yeah. Because we're not able to feel into the
Foundation. And so I can rapidly see in a breath pattern with the CO where they're breathing, where they're not. So if there's a lack of breath in the roots, it's gonna be a little bit more. Which may mean they're amazing for like driving and pushing and and like a visionary and like sure, yeah. Projecting that. Yeah, potentially plenty of stuff in the head. If they're clear in the throat. communicators. However, if that grounded quality isn't present.
phases of expansion and contraction that are going to be challenging for investors and staff. So it is really it's directly applicable. How we'll go about correcting that really depends So everybody breathes differently. It's like a fingerprint. There might be some diff And lying them on a table would be the most easy way to see what's moving and then how we go about you know shifting that. Invariably the protocol's kind.
twice a week. Like starting out with someone that's like diving into it. We just do like two, two hour sessions a week for And then we drop down to one session. And that of course depends on, you know, if they're able to access a breath work practitioner, specifically a trauma-aware breath work practitioner in their area. And if they're not, then I might describe a different protocol.
Your breath. And that repattering can happen over the space of a month or less. Yeah, for sure. Like we can repattern breath in in two hours. So we can make create fundamental lasting change. Some of them will not breathe the same. And you we can do like a before and after study.
W literally videoing the breath and seeing where it moves before and after in two hours is phenomenal. But beyond that, we can look at resting adrenaline and cortisol rates. Wow. So we can also start assessing blood chemistry. really great metrics. Yeah. And anyone that's got an aura ring or a the hotmat wearable will be able to even track that. The Apple Watch I think has got HRV. Yeah cool built in as well. So that I mean before we get
Um yeah, those are just really obvious simple metrics. And beyond that, like how people feel. I feel way more relaxed. Okay, it's probably working. So I mean I like deep dives as well. Basically, 10 breath sessions in five days, and we will repattern the breath of someone fully. with the neuroplastic change, keep up a birth practice at that point.
Increased, which is including their capacity to hold larger amounts of stress. Yep. Not that that's the answer, because balance is the answer. Yeah, yeah. And balance every Yeah. So that um that segues quite nicely into something that I've been geeking out over a lot recently, which is this uh this question of how we can train our human bodies to withstand and process greater levels of intensity.
Yes. So w with with that in mind, how do you define capacity from the perspective of the nervous system and how is it different to resilience? Hmm. So thank you. So for me Capacity is how much of something we can we can withhold, we can hold space for. Okay. Okay, say that again. Capacity is how much?
Like a vessel would have a one liter capacity. This water bottle in the water. Exactly. And then if we drilled a hole in the bottom of that, the size of the hole of that would be the resilience. So if we increased the hole in the bottom of it, it So most people start with, you know, say a lung capacity of a certain size. Most normal Yeah, or less I've heard from the free diving training. And then we can we can we've witnessed, you know, doubling in that rate.
Yeah. Yeah, totally. I mean it's like private officers like we're depriving ourselves. Yeah, totally. And so our capacity to return to uh so our ability to return to our full capacity is resilience. So we can have a really stressful day. And then if we sleep overnight and we get up in the morning and we're fresh. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's that's fascinating. And I think a lot of people associate resiliency, at least it has connotations.
Being able to withstand things. But I think to use this kind of water bottle analogy, it's more like your capacity to process and to feel what or maybe complete the cycle. Um, micro stresses or traumas have been created during that day, which is a very different process and almost maybe requires. um a a weakness or like willingness to feel. Absolutely. The the essence is is self-awareness. For me it's like going through the day when we're facing
Yeah. And we don't do we know how challenging it is? And well, we're then understanding of what the implications are in our whole being. Yeah. And then how do we effectively manage that? whatever it is I'm feeling. And a part of the first thing is what is it that I'm feeling? And then, you know, really befriending To move out of my system chemically. Like, you know, like so we can get like all soft and woo woo about this, but really I like to approach.
Yeah, well I was just thinking like most of us like economic graduates are handicapped in this. Like we don't even know the answer to that first question. Like, what are we feeling? Uh yeah. Interesting. Yeah, yeah, good. Yeah. Okay, let's get more specific than that. And I have some description. Yeah. Um yeah, that's the essence of it, is really getting in. And then how do I meet those needs? Yeah. Viewing it as feedback essentially. Yeah, totally. And and it's really cute.
You know, the the other interesting piece is when we've been patterned from childhood to ignore our needs, or that we've been patterned that a certain need requires a certain response, which is inaccurate. And then you know we're at the emotions okay which can also be something that we really need to look into. Interesting. Yeah so that internal compass can be skewed. Yeah yeah yeah and that's where we start to delve into some i some issues. Okay. Where it's also re Yeah.
Ya, ya, ya. No, that makes total sense. So just to speak about I guess my experience with with this so far, I've had I think three hour long one to one sessions with you now and each one has felt very different, but
almost like a profound journey in in their own right. And I think you've helped me to open my own breath all the way down into my into my belly and into my pelvic floor. And these sessions have usually culminated either emotional release or some kind of DMT experience that have felt just as powerful as anything that I've felt in a plant medicine journey or things like that. So I'm I'd love to ask what have been some of the most surprising or powerful transformations that you've witnessed.
in some of the patients that you've breathed over the years. Thank you. Um yeah, I think w immediately there's there's two two there's three actually that come to mind immediately. The first one was uh a man When I guide breath to move through the physical body, I guide it and Create a pattern that's similar to a potential trauma. And when it becomes close, when the breath becomes close enough to the breath.
So when I modulate people through all different styles of breadth pattern, it will pick up And so It's like you're striking a tuning fork and like li looking for the thing to resonate. Yeah. What's that? You know, and then it'll pick it up. And so that's why no two sessions are the same. experience. And so yeah, we picked up we picked up an incident that was a this near drowning. He came very And it was profound, and he went through the full movement.
From witnessing it, if we had videoed it, it would have looked like he was you know in a trance state of reliving his drowning. He went through the whole thing. And then when he came out the other end, he ran. And then, you know, opens his eyes and feels ultimately reborn as its nervous system is fully recalibrated and returned to its true essence in nature. Um
Another the you know the the second one that I'd like to speak to um is not one specific, but there's been a there's been quite a few. I've been
Trauma. And one incident was really profound. Um, and it's been something that's been quite commonplace, is at the end of the table when they're when they stand, there's an exclamation that they can feel And when they start to walk around, there's like this huge smile and quite often like tears of joy and relief um that are flooding out of them because there's a recognition.
So whilst subconsciously they've been able to walk, the quality of consciousness that's been able to enter through their nerve pathways is is so minimized. of the masculine is profound and so it's a real honor to guide in that way. And and of course that shows up a little bit with postpartum and any sort of you know post pregnancy and childbirth that's that's going on there as well. And then finally um uh a good friend of mine um
nineteen he's now he's now a practitioner um of the breath. Um And without obviously, you know, uh, I know he's very open with his story and loves to share it, but without going into that too much, uh, the essence is um he's a severe lower back injury that led him down a path of using marijuana to medicate and ultimately manage his pain. And so uh system at that time. Um you know, cannabis now being like fully available in Canada legally.
And to Numb as well. Um there's a fine line there. He came to me um curious about what I did and just kind of. And so yeah, we worked together once a week. Week three he quit. Fully quit smoking. Done. Two sessions a week. We did one one hour a week. Yeah. He um had this beautiful capacity to um allow his body to move however it needed to whilst whilst Rotation.
Openings and his own chiropractic adjustments. Like his spine was just clicking, like and he was fully in a non-ordinary state of consciousness and able to be with a lot of pain. Right. Um, and so yeah, I mean he had chronic diet. know quite quite thin, weak. Anyway, the transition in him physically is unbelievable. Like he's now, you know, very Worked long. grueling on the lower back. And he's yeah, he's he's doing amazingly well and came through the training program in in uh 2019.
So f to see someone go from, you know, the state ultimately the physical, mental, emotional state he was in right the way through to now holding space. incredibly fulfilling. Yeah. Wow. Wow. That's that's beautiful. Um and I had yeah, I had chills as you were describing both of the first two actually. It's it's really, really powerful and profound. Yeah, what did you feel? What do you think that we in the West can learn from their worldview? Thanks, Johnny.
There's a a deep reverence and respect for this idea of oneness and for Nature. And that's a way of living in harmony with that which we are. And it's quite a fascinating worldview. It doesn't create a separation between humans and the environment, it creates a one-year-old. Our cells are dying and being reborn all the time. You know, and it's said it's every seven years the whole body would be totally renewed. And so that also gives Which is uh really interesting contemplation if we saw it.
how much of our being physically um but also emotionally and mentally is now within our own conscious domain of of creation uh and if knowing that we'll be fully reborn That opens up a whole different perspective on life. Beyond that, as well, it recognizes the native way is that I am.
And I am breathing the same air as everybody else. And so because of that, we recognize And that can be a little alarming at times but and suddenly we realise like, Oh wow, like I'm at And so there's this idea of almost that that part of us. be special, unique, or different starts to kind of like claw against that. It's like, no, I can't I'm unique. And so that's uh that moment of recognition that um we are of course all Uh and
And how do we hold that duality in our mind at the same time, uh, continuously? And so part of sitting in circle and sitting in ceremony has been that. And it's a very important thing. Paradoxes Yeah, uh totally. I mean I just I just took a big gulp of water and it's interesting to to think that.
Like that a few seconds ago wasn't me and now it it is me in some way. And like almost wonder in the same with breathing in the air right now, like where does that where is the barrier between the air that is in this room compared to the air that Yeah, quality there was like who is the me that's curating the physical form? Right. And when we come back to the medicine wheel teachings of body
Spirit, it's really clear that the spirit is the observer of the body, the mind, and the emotions. And in the native tradition, Sense of uh comfort. It's like, okay, I am this spiritual being and and without making it, you know, esoteric or woo-woo, we can actually have an experience where I am feeling my emotions, I am witnessing my thoughts, I am moving in such a way that I'm feeling my body. And so the it's not so much about saying any of these things, it's more about feeling.
And some of the traditions of ceremony like sweat lodge actually brings through a very deep purification where we have, you know, the sensation and the felt senses in in our body of knowing that I am the observer. And in that moment there's a dissolution. It's like yes I am this body and I am curating it and I am more than a little bit. So it's like this idea of not suppression, but living with it. And that's also, you know, aligns very much to the philosophies of tangent.
I don't need to suppress this. I can enjoy it. I can enjoy all things in this fleshy existence, knowing that it you know, I am more. And they're all gateways to awakening to that truth. Yeah, no, totally. And I find it fascinating looking at these different types of rites of passage or ceremony that are used to almost create that witness perspective. I also think of Swimming in the sea or maybe ice baths where again that level of intensity kind of puts your minds into that witness.
Perspective where you're aware of these very intense sensations, but you're not caught up in them. It's beautiful. And that's why probably, you know, one of the reasons why. chase after those peak experiences like skydiving or you know skiing as an example and skiing you know at speed in a flow state was one of my ways of
Ultimately what was a spiritual practice. And skiing became a spiritual practice. Cooking is the same. When we're in flow and we've got, you know, bills, like five or six checks on, and we're cooking and we're in that flow state, it becomes our meditation. And what I'm curious about is how we can chase after those things because we're not comfortable with ourselves. Uh and that becomes our daily habit, our daily practice that I don't want to feel
Again, but how our nervous system can even get patterned into a loop in that way. So that's the essence of addiction. I get used to feeling a certain way, and I need to do whatever it is I do to get back. And for me, you know, breath work is an opportunity to create that witness state where I can feel the emotions without the attachment or without the need to change them by seeking alcohol or sex or whatever it acceptable but is also an addiction.
Wow. It feels to me like we're very much on the frontiers of the science in many ways. And I would imagine there's fewer than a few hundred clinical records. globally. And I'd love to ask what is still known and unknown from a clinical perspective? And what are some of your colleagues in Canada still mapping out? What are some of these frontiers that we're
Yeah, wow. That's like a big question. That's all right. What what comes after you thanks, bro? Um yeah, like I I suppose just going immediately to to my own personal practice, like I'm mapping. Every morning in my pranayama, I'm continuing to find my edges and to be with them and sit with them. And so that's a continued. Um as an example this morning I found that I could
My diaphragm in a slightly different way that pressed into my liver that created a very interesting sensation. That's something I've never felt before. So every morning I'm mapping out more areas of my own being from the inside through my So So that inquiry will will continue until it doesn't anymore, but that might be a while. And that's you know, that m most mornings that's an hour of of prunny arm.
So that's sort of on a personal level. The team of Biology of Breath in Canada are continuing to practice, you setting in a clinical way with trauma aware breath work. And we're continuing to dive into deep trainings where we're just continuing to explore our own our own patterns. We're we're uh guiding people in such ways that then they're sharing
afterwards. So ultimately, Johnny, every time I'm in clinic, I'm learning because no two breath patterns are the same. But even when you come in for your next session, your breath tomorrow, yeah, like it's going to be totally different again. And so there's a continuum here where I am all I'm always learning. And I, you know, what I love about breath work and any breathwork practitioner that's approaching it from this way of deep listening.
uh an awareness of trauma is that every treatment they do, they get better. So that's fun. In terms of the, you know, circling back to the real essence of your question of the science, like what's known and what's not known. Yeah. And I don't I don't know if we'll Cognitively understand any more than that. Like to be honest with you.
It's so beautiful. It's such a beautiful way to say it. And you know, my teacher, Robin Clements, has been so clear with me, with my cognitive bias, where it's like, like, yeah, it's great. You're explaining all of this and it's all making sense. And you know, yes, we know this about the endocrine system. Yes, we know this. system and and then we just don't know. And and as soon as we lie someone down to breathe, it's a hundred page document.
Like literally, I can I and if I stream my consciousness of what I'm seeing with somebody, like I can speak non-stop for a full hour of what I see in the breath, what I'm sensing and feeling, and what I'm with
Mm-hmm. So that dialogue would be totally available. I mean we could we could record a like a one hour breadth session. That would be fascinating. Yeah, maybe we could do it with my session tomorrow. Yeah, bring the microphone. We'll just record the whole thing. So we could stream it, it'd be like and it would just be like a dialogue.
W that's present in the breath translations. Yeah. When I lie someone down and I translate for training, yeah, what I'm I'm speaking directly to what I'm seeing and I'm speaking to directly what I'm feeling. And it's amazing how practitioners can Mm. Because it is a translation. It's a language. Yeah. Almost the more people that you that you lie down and that you see, it's like you're increasing your pattern recognition capacities, which are allowing
That translation to come through. And so I suppose to um to rephrase the question slightly, like what are some of the What are some of the things that you've discovered for yourself recently? And maybe um how does that tie in with what we're starting to learn about like the vagus nerve and and things like this, which are just kind of on the frontier.
These new fields of science. Thank you. It really is that every time I go into clinic, I witness patterns and I start to correlate the data, and that data is being correlated. And you know, the the more present I am and the more I'm in my own breath pattern, the more capacity I have to remember that. So just recognizing I do have.
To be able to remember that sort of thing really easily and well. It's like your own form of flight. Yeah, it's yeah, exactly. Yeah. And that's I suppose one of my gifts that I recognize.
embodying in a in a fuller way and accepting in a fuller way within myself. And so every time I correlate story to breath pattern to story afterwards, I do that 10, 15, 20, 100 times. And then I start to see that that So then I know that as soon as someone says story and I and I pattern that immediately think about you know maybe 15 other people that have had that same experience and I've witnessed their breath, I have automatically a hypothesis of how that
And then when I lie them down and my whole hypothesis is proved to be accurate, I know that And so, you know, un I can guarantee that, you know, and then until I can't because The rule again. The essence really is still like there's a way. So if I see that you know, as an example, we're seeing someone present with a lot of control, that's going to shop in their throat on their exhale, and then I know that. Uh and that pattern recognition is available to doctors.
So that's the essence of the next sort of frontier that we're doing is how we can map out certain patterns and certain breath patterns and document basically the correction of that. The challenge that we may face is that someone's throat may not release until they're Okay.
So whilst I can see the throats holding, that person isn't going to release their throat until the lumbar spine that's directly connected in childhood developmental patterns with the cervical spine is both of them simultaneously. So it might be that we need to like rock the pelvis and support the back of the neck and then we just see it drop and release. And it will be visual, like we'll see that. So the I I think my my dedicating my life to this um and and following this path of the breath.
You know, I'm very clear on that. And knowing that this, you know, I'll barely scratch the surface in this lifetime. That's fine. Yeah. And you'll probably pave the way for people to continue the practice and continue the lineage I suppose. Yeah, and I think that will be a continuum Yeah, which is great, which is is really all what this pod podcast is about in many, many ways. So I I love that. Um so the other thing I wanted to touch on is
Wow, ominous. We're we're in a bit of a rainstorm here in Bali. Yeah, so for for listeners out there it's it's monsoon season here in Bali. Pretty intense rain going on. Um but yeah, what I wanted to touch on was It really feels like this interest in breath work is is exploding, particularly in the last couple of years. And particularly Bali to me feels like the epicenter in many ways. Um but I think A lot of people and myself included to some extent are
unclear on the differences between the the different types and brands of breath work. I know there's there's holotropic, which was initially pioneered by Stan Gruff. There's there's nasal breathing, there's rebirthing, there's shamanic breathing. Um And we've talked a little bit about this before, but I'd love for you to just kind of help the listeners understand how conscious connected breathing, which is the breath that you practice, is different from some of these other styles out there.
Yeah, thanks, Johnny. I think the first piece to mention is it's trauma-aware breathwork. What that means from my perspective is it's honoring the balance of the nervous system. So we're looking at the autonomous. And we're allowing that to be the guide of the session as opposed to, you know, dishonoring that in my opinion by forcing. And so as soon as force or over-efforting is present, we're moving Tolerance and into an area.
State of overactivation or disassociation. Which for listeners out there who might be familiar with Wim Hof, for example, I guess that's an example of it can be. I mean it can be practiced safely, and it can be some. Straight out. I've passed out myself before. Yeah. Right. And so that you know, what we're really looking at is a prescription. So the kind of the two the two easy ways to describe it is there's a prescription breath work, which is Wim Hof or Prani.
Alternate nostril breathing, say, is an example. And something like an alternate nostril breathing with a square breath of five, five, five, five would be.
On the other end of the spectrum, we've got what is termed as conscious connected breath. Within CCB, there are a variety of different schools. You touched upon rebirthing. Uh, there's TB transformational breath from Juth Kravitz, there's my Breathwave, and now there's the new school of uh Vayu breathwork that I've started with Carmen Gann and Jen Field, which is specifically trauma.
And so all of these different schools sit in the realm of conscious connected breath work. Some are in and out through the nose, some are in and out through the mouth. The essence is that the breath is connected and the breath is guiding. And that's again slightly different than holotropic, which is a forced inhale-exhale. So whilst it is a connected breath and we could describe it as being a conscious connected breath, it sort of lives within the realm of
What we know to be true is that a forced inhale and exhale is very activating. And specifically in and out through the mouth, we're creating a lot of. So I kind of I would say that holotropic land's in its own little realm. Um and as I've mentioned and I'll say
personally practice or I would personally recommend. And so conscious connected breathing in the style that I practice and from the lineages of Leonardo and Judith Kravitz and Robin Clements is much more a quality of deep listening and balance. Oh good. So I I um you know i incredibly grateful and appreciative of of Robin and his way. Um he teaches this sort of
super soft and strong approach. So it's like the stronger we are, the softer we are. And it's this idea of um the inhale being vibrant and the exhale being a And I love the quality of embracing that in my own life. Um, it's not quite balanced. I work four days and have three days off. And I recognize um that there's a real need for that, you know. Uh that tenderness with the breath. And and so that also, you know, it flows really well. Allowing the breath to be the guide.
I'm not the one that really knows. What knows is the spirit of the breath. What knows is the natural intelligence. It's below the level of my own consciousness. The person who's breathing And what that allows is full agency back. And that's a radical self-actualization process where they recognize that they are their own healer. And it is the spirit of the breath that is moving through them.
Them that allows them to take agency for their life again. And then as we kind of circle back to that idea of creation. Okay, well, how do I curate myself to live the most joyful, meaningful existence in harmony with nature, supporting other people to do the same? That shows up. That's that's really profound what you just touched on. And and I think the the major shift is moving that agency back to the patient and and your role as a breath worker as being almost like a guide or kind of midwife.
And holding space for their the intuitive wisdom of their body and their breath to do the healing. for you. Yeah. But but that is a radical shift for most of the population and certainly, you know, Western medicine. Yeah, absolutely. It's I'm not I'm not the expert, the client.
And the spirit that's breathing them is the expert. And as soon as I think I'm the expert, I I've totally I've firstly I've dishonored them, I've dishonored the wisdom that's moving through them. But beyond that, I've exhausted myself because I have to do something.
And now I've become the doer. And in that moment is no more flow for me and I'm gonna And so if I can be in a conscious communication, my nervous and endocrine systems are supporting their nervous and endocrine systems in what's now a co-creation of dialogue with A force that's far greater than ourselves is moving through us, which is the breath, suddenly it becomes easeful again. So there's nothing I have to do in a session, and there's a lot I can support.
That's that's really powerful and I think also a wonderful metaphor for life in general in some ways. Yeah. Um and and and I love I love that idea of um Of of of the inhale and the exhale and being strong and weak at the same time. I know Brene Brown talks about strong back, soft front. And I think for myself speaking personally, I've been through this journey of yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw
we're not taught or or even encouraged to be weak in this in this way that creates profound strength. And we feel very scared when we do kind of let our guard Amen. Yeah so I'd also love to ask I'll be including links to Breathwork Bali and your Instagram and everything in the show notes. Uh where would be the best place for listeners to both find out more about you and also to learn about any potential trainings that you're
Yeah, thanks, Jim. Um in at this time, I think the most useful way to connect with my general musings is on Instagram. I enjoy the vibration of that platform. So it's my Also as you mentioned, breathwork bali. So Breathwoke Bali um on Instagram as well and also breathworkbali.com. Indeed. And so we'll be uh you will be crafting a a book that will be a combination of my own personal story along with a variety of different prescribed practices. Uh the essence of the breath.
So that's going to be coming through. So just yeah, hang tight for that. And uh in terms of trainings, we will be going live on the Bayou Breathwork uh page in the next few months. And that's an opportunity for someone that feels train in some in conscious connected breath work in a trauma aware way. Canada and Bali. And so the schedule that some of that's available at uh Breathwork Bali right now as well. And if those if anyone's feeling the cold.
full 400 hour accredited program which is aligned to the GBPA the Global Breathwork Practitioner Alliance and we're really looking at creating a very workers. Um so it's more of an invitational process. To work with people who are gonna follow that path. And we also allow people to go at their own pace. Which is really the essence of what we're teaching here. We can we can teach what we are, uh not what we know. Yeah, I I love that.
In the meantime, um, I'd love to hear so last couple of questions, what have been some of the biggest influences in your work. And I know that you're you're continuing on a lineage here in many ways. So for people listening. What might be some starting points for those who are eager to learn more and dig into kind of the more rigorous science that is emerging in the space? That still that that idea of inquiry around embodiment.
your your field of you know study and experience and your own journey in the last you know few years has really been inspiring for me. That's ultimately what we need to do is is Become more conscious and aware of our own of us of our own selves. And so on the on the one hand, a yoga asana practice prepares us. It's not a means to an end. It it for me, asana is the foundation of moving into breath work. We're allowing the body to become
The body through, and you know, this is the words of Iyenga. You know, this is really the foundation of what. for practice. Um that aside, like some amazing authors that I that have really inspired me. I I love the work of Bruce Lipton, uh biology of belief. Yeah, his book, you know, that was really profound in and again shifting my worldview.
Uh Dr. Joe Dispenses both of his books, Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself, which dropped into my my field about five years ago, and then Becoming Supernatural, which I read right when it came out a year and a half, two years ago. Those have both been really profound. In uh in the world of trauma basically
Um just battling the thunder here. In the wor in the world of trauma, uh Bessel van der Koge, uh The Body Keeps Score and also the work of Peter Levine and Stephen Porges. For me Peter Levine's Voice is a is a beautiful work. And studying polyvagal theory has helped me to really understand what's going on Yeah, quite intense.
Like torrential rain right now. Um what was the name of Steve of Stephen Portug's book? Um so mostly I haven't actually specifically read anything uh that he's authored other than than just going into A lot of the online uh work that's available. Um Yeah, and and then just sort of some of the visuals on polyvagal theory that that are crafted right now really help us to understand it. The the words are one thing, but when we look at uh it's essentially a bell curve.
Sympathetic and parasympathetic, and just understanding how from an evolutionary standpoint that that came to be, that's been really useful in understanding how we operate as a human. There's a book by uh an author called David Lee, which is is called Breathwork Sent. Chaos magic? Breath work, sense energy and chaos magic. Yeah. And it's very much like starts grounded science and moves into like full esoteric.
shamanic teachings which I love. Great. Um and so like it starts out by mapping that every breath pattern has a corresponding emotion. Okay. And it actually maps quite a few of those and you can practice those different breaths and and feel the sensations that move through. And then it moves into some fairly mystical studies of how when we lie people in a circle, the vibrational frequency that's actually measurable is created. Um, and a variety of other different
Wow. Interesting. There was someone I read about recently who was uh connecting a device up to plants that was then measuring uh different frequencies that were created during breath work circles and meditation. And the wow. Yeah, I and and the the plants played a different sound depending on What state of the journey people are in.
That's fascinating. It's kinda crazy. Yeah. Yeah, I mean that's that's where we're getting to with you know some of those realms is the idea that when an endocrine system is activated massively, its vibration that it emits in an electromagnetic resonance changes. And it's measurable. And so we can measure the resonance of gland function because the nervous system is electrical.
And so when we start to measure the resonance of individuals, we can also look at mapping heart rate variability and vagal tone along with the resonance of a nervous and endocrine system. So we we we have a capacity to measure some very interesting. And you know, if any re and if any listeners out there uh have an opportunity to connect anyone up, I'll fully volunteer to shave my head and be fully like hooked up and map what I can create by changing my breath.
Wow. Because I know the altered states of consciousness that are available to me. And I'd I'd really like one of my hopes in the next couple of years is to is to map a variety of those and the corresponding breath patterns because When I drop into a certain breath pattern, I know what neuroplasticity is available to me, and that can ultimately heal trauma. And that's available simply with breath. And if we can map specifically what prescribed breathing, you know, will create certain
states of consciousness, then we can peel that back. So yeah, there's some there's a lot like when we sort of circle back to the frontiers of what we can discover. Right now there's so much we don't know and there's so much we can know that would be so beneficial. And ultimately all we need to do is connect our breath. Like that's that's the i the irony. We can make this as complicated if we as we want, but it's really so.
Wow, that's fascinating. And this sounds like it's potentially going to be interesting research for the book coming coming next year. And I will I'll look up and include links to all of the books that you just mentioned. Um and so the final parting question that I'd like to close with is uh inspired by Rule K line, which is Try to love the questions themselves and live them now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live your way into the answer.
So with that in mind, what is the question that you're living yourself right now? And what question might you leave our listeners with? Thanks, Johnny. I love that live your way. most simple self inquiry in any moment. How am I breathing? Well we will wrap the show with that. I hope you enjoyed this conversation. It would mean a lot to me if you could take a few. to open up your podcast app. Humans. Five star rating.
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